A few weeks ago I got a sidewall tear on my rear tire of my gravel bike, so I ordered new tires and figured it was a good time to redo the tubeless setup properly.
So today I tried reinstalling tubeless tape (25 mm Muc-Off tape, running on DT Swiss G1800 wheels, 24mm internal width) since with the previous tape the tyres wouldn't hold air. First attempt: one layer, pressed down firmly including into the "well" where the spoke holes are (see picture 1). After pumping up the tire, the beads seated properly, but I ended up with air leaking along multiple spokes this time.
So I redid it again — this time going around the rim twice with tape, pulling it tight, and specifically not pushing the tape down into the well (just letting it bridge over it – see picture 2). That got rid of most of the leaks, but I'm still left with one small leak at a single spoke.
Right now I'm trying the trick of installing a tube, pumping it up, and leaving it overnight to press the tape more firmly against the rim, hoping that seals the last leak. The last picture is a picture from the tubeless tape where there's an airleak via the spoke hole.
Questions for the tubeless-experienced folks here:
- Am I doing something wrong with how I'm applying the tape? Should it be pressed into the spoke well or bridged tightly over it? Is my tape not wide enough?
- Any tips on avoiding this multi-spoke leak issue in the future (tape width, application technique, etc.)?
- After all this trouble, I'm honestly considering just giving up on tubeless and going back to tubes. Is that an overreaction, or is this level of hassle just normal for a first-time setup on this type of rim?
Any advice appreciated — trying to salvage this before I throw in the towel.
by CampusMeister
18 Comments
if i remember correctly. tape should be 2-3 mm wider than inner width. then you press it as tight as possible into the well while installing. there is absolutely no need to go a second run. also what i do while installing. i pull the tape as stretched as possible while bringing it into the well. i know the tape is not very stretchy. it just helps to set it properly into the well.
all you need is maybe 10 or 20 cm overlap around the hole for valve.
Wider tape!
Your tape looks fine from the picture. Get the sealant in and pump up the tire faster than normal. I’ve never been able to get a tubeless setup to not have leaks without getting the sealant in there. Once the tire has a ton of air pressure, it will push that tape down into the groove more and then any leak from the side will be handled by the sealant.
I’ve setup probably a couple dozen wheel sets tubeless….if tape isn’t already on there I’m using a couple layers of gorilla tape.
I’ve used the rim specific tape before and find it less forgiving to install than good duct tape. I’ve tapped fat tire, mountain bike, and gravel setups. I’ve also tapped wheels and tire combos that are technically not tubeless ready with very good results that last years and in one case a decade on an old dirt jumper.
It is some work to get the rim clean again after removing the tape due to a busted spoke or something but wd40 aids in the adhesive removal and a little rubbing alcohol cleans the wd40 off for the next round of tape.
I’m sure folks will have differing opinions but this method has worked for me over the last 15-20 years.
Are you adding sealant during these tests? Or is this dry? Because if you’re not adding sealant there’s your big issue.
One tip: tape the rim, then insert a tube and mount a tire. Inflate the tube to whatever the max pressure is for the rim/tire. The tube will help press the tape down.
But apart from that, this is what sealant is for. It will fill in all the minuscule gaps and holes. That’s what it does. I rarely tape the shelf and usually just tape the well and I’ve never had issues once I add sealant.
I’m running the same width tape on wheels with a 22mm internal width. I didn’t try to force it down into the spoke holes but did stretch it tight and it worked great. You may need wider tape but have you put sealant in yet? You’re going to need sealant to make it hold air.
You need to firmly push the tape into the well with your thumb as you are also making sure it’s very tight.
By biking life became so much easier once I went back to tubes.
Next experiment with TPU tubes. I don’t like tubeless on anything except my MTB
https://youtu.be/rI8hzTPJjrw?is=Xa_HtCuhLTDgqi74
If you follow these steps and can’t get it to work, I don’t know what to tell you. Good luck
I just went through this myself. I did my first set of tubeless set up. I couldn’t get it after 3 tries and finally went to my LBS. I know all the guys there and traded them beer and pizza to teach me.
#1: they used the newest ENVE tape and said it’s the best they’ve ever used in 15 years.
#2: they ran the tape at least half way up the G dimension in your drawing.
#3: they did pull the tape under tension, but it wasn’t excessive or anything. Just a nice tight pull.
#4: they pushed the tape down in the wheel well with their thumb but weren’t anal about it.
#5: they were very nonchalant about it and weren’t even trying to be perfect. Admittedly they’ve done hundreds or thousands of wheels between them so they are good. But nothing about the tape job was perfect. You just have to make sure you have adequate width. And err on the side of wider. If references indicate 25mm, 27mm will be better.
All my bikes have new-ish set ups now so I won’t need to do one again for a while, but I feel good about my next attempt now.
Tubeless tape must be at least 2 mm more. You should put it under tension and press in over all width. 2 layers near the valve and tje hole for the valve core must be small.Clean the rim with isopropyl Alkohol before applying the tape.
Couple of points:
Multiple spokes leaking air doesn’t mean multiple failure points.
I have that rim tape and I hate it, just doesn’t feel supple enough. I used to have some schwalbe stuff that was amazing, felt more like electrical tape.
Narrower tape over the well of the wheel. Mainly just to cover the spoke holes. On my bikes I use electrical tape for it as it’s cheap, peels clean and I always have it around. This step helps with laying down the main strip of tape. Then tape about 2-3mm wider than your internal rim width. You really have to wiggle down on into the wheel. It takes a little time to get the technique down but once you do you should be able to lay the tape down nice and flat.
Get rid of the Mucoff tape. Teravail, DTSWISS, Stans are all good.
If you do it right you shouldn’t need any sealant to seal your wheel and it should hold overnight without issue, unless you’re using crazy thin tires that like to bleed air.
You describe using tape that is several mms too narrow. Are both your rim and tire tubless compatable, you didn’t confirm. With current tubeless tires and rims all but the lightest should easily hold pressure for days or weeks without sealant. I set up a new set of MTB wheels and they sat 2 weeks without sealant and still have good pressure.
Once your tape is wide enough, it should/will hold air and seal when done correctly. I see many done wrong or poorly.
Not being a jerk…but any Muc Off product is the problem. Every item they make is the worst possible version of that item.
You also need wider tape, probably. A good rule of thumb is 4mm wider than the internal width of your wheel. For example I ride enve wheels with 25mm internal width and the rim tape they recommended is 29mm wide.
Also, fill with sealant right away when you seat the tires. And it helps to ride around on them for a few minutes to make sure sealant gets into all the nooks and crannies
I’ve had nothing but trouble with that Muc-Off tape. I love their sealant but the tape is garbage. I worked at a shop and we used Teravail tape exclusively. It is so easy to work with, has just the right amount of stretch and is semi transparent so you can see precisely where it’s adhered to the wheels. Doesn’t suffer from leaks at the overlap like Muc-Off is so prone to.
New tape yes, get the rim really clean before you retape. I put the wheel thru axle hole on a dowel on my work bench vice, I then slowly rotate the wheel whilst playing a heat gun on the rim. Once the rim is warm (not hot) to the touch, tape the rim. I use polypro strapping tape from an industrial supply store.