World Championships Preview – Domestique Cycling Podcast

The 2025 UCI Road World Championships in Kigali could be the most brutal edition we’ve ever seen. With over 5,000 metres of climbing, relentless hills, altitude, and air quality challenges, this year’s Worlds is set to test the very best.

In this episode of the Domestique Cycling Podcast, Bram is joined by Domestique editor Ethan and special guest Dan Challis for a full World Championships 2025 preview. We break down both the men’s and women’s elite road races, analyse the form of the biggest names like Tadej Pogačar and Remco Evenepoel, and look at the outsiders who could surprise.

From the anticipated Pogačar vs Evenepoel battle on the streets of Kigali, to whether the Dutch women can finally get their tactics right, and the rising stars like Juan Ayuso, Isaac del Toro, and Kim Le Court — we cover every angle.

🎧 Topics in this episode:

– The brutal men’s route: altitude, heat, and solo-attack opportunities
– Is Pogačar fatigued, or still the rider to beat?
– Remco Evenepoel’s peak form and Belgium’s all-in strategy
– Women’s race preview: Vollering, Ferrand-Prévot, and Dutch tactics
– Why Kim Le Court could shock the favourites in Kigali
– Outsiders to watch: Ayuso, Del Toro, Carapaz, Pidcock, and more

If you’re looking for insights into the 2025 UCI World Championships in Rwanda, this is your complete road race preview.

00:00 Intro
01:25 World Championships in Rwanda: context and course overview
02:07 Men’s course analysis and early favourites
03:28 Pogacar vs Evenepoel: form and time trial
06:27 Team dynamics Belgium and Slovenia
10:31 The invisible enemies in Kigali
12:14 Key climbs Mount Kigali, Côte Kigali, Côte Kimihura and attack possibilities
17:05 Finishers UCI points and African riders
21:04 The battle for the breakaway and African representation
24:20 Atmosphere in Rwanda fans and culture
25:00 Women’s course analysis
26:50 Dutch favourites: Vollering and Van der Breggen
30:29 French team and outsider chances
35:10 Other contenders
38:39 Women’s podium predictions
40:00 Back to the men top contenders
44:09 Outsiders: Healy, Del Toro, Ciccone, Pidcock, Ayuso, Carapaz
49:03 Question marks and surprises: Bernal, Roglic, Skjelmose
56:21 Dark horses: Leknessund, Onley, Simmons, Vine, French team
1:03:39 Men’s podium predictions and wrap-up

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Welcome back to domestique cycling podcast. We’ve been away for a while and I think our last episode was the tour to France preview back in June, but I’m sure that Aiden and Cyrus kept you entertained during tours with cool down and I think Aiden has been doing an amazing job on our hot seat podcast as well. There will actually be a new episode of that out the day after this one comes out with pools who’s racing the world championships. So, be sure you’re subscribed to that uh so you don’t miss that. The end of the 2025 season is fast approaching, but we can’t really close out the season without doing a preview of the World Championship road races. To do that, I am joined by Seek editor Ethan and a special guest, Dan Chalice. Welcome to the podcast, Dan. How are you doing? Good. Thanks very much for having me. Good to good to be here. You’ve written a number of feature articles for the mystique in the past couple of months. What would you say is your specialization? [Music] Well, I I like to write a lot about um I guess the global side of the sport kind of beyond its uh traditional European heartlands. Um you know, I love to write about cycling in in Africa and and its development kind of all around the world. And um and so yeah, this is obviously it’s been a kind of key time um for me this week kind of writing a lot about the Kaggali Kaggali worlds and um yeah and uh you know I think it’s been it’s been a fascinating world championships hasn’t it? Um it’s been fascinating seeing it in in a completely different place, a completely different context, completely different culture and um yeah it’s been uh it’s been really really interesting to see it kind of out of its normal normal location. So, um, yeah, I’ve been fascinated to to see that and, uh, yeah, looking forward to to chatting a bit more about the road races today. Awesome. Well, that seems perfect for what we’re talking about today. Um, the World Championship in Rwanda, the first on the African continent. Uh, the way we’ll structure this preview is by first discussing the routes for the men and women, and then break down the main favorites and look at the outsiders as well. Um, let’s kick things off with the men’s route, which is the hardest World Championships route since ever, I believe. Uh, it is 267.5 km with not a single flat meter. Insight. Uh, estimates range between 5,400 and 6,100 m of elevation gain. Um, that’s a little bit more than your Zift races, isn’t it, Ethan? Yeah, that’s a lot more than ours. I think if me and you both were doing that, Braum, we would be I’m gone, I’m dead after maybe a lap. Maybe less than that. Um, so obviously there’s uh a lot to say about this route. It basically being incredibly tough. Uh, there not being a single flat meter on it. Of course, there are a couple of flat meters. Um, but the repetition of of hills and uh the presence of a very uh treacherous uh mountain in the middle of it. Um, yeah, I think that that kind of already eliminates a lot of writers and and makes uh a very small group of favorites, would you say? Almost definitely really I mean you obviously going to have poker chart in a world of his own but then does the time trial influence your view on what’s going to happen on suddenly because Remco looked in a very very superb shape didn’t he? Yeah, I think it’s really, you know, it’s really hard to see. It’s really, you look, you look at the time trial and you think Pagata, some of the images you’ve seen of him, he kind of really looks cooked. He really looks tired. He looks the same almost as he did kind of, you know, in the back end of the tour to France where he he just looks so so so exhausted. He still looks the same now. And um, you know, how how is this? It’s been a long season, you know, racing so heavily throughout the spring, racing a tour to France. um you know it’s it’s really you know there’s lots of doubt being cast um back from that from that time trial over over how he’s going to be um in this in this road race. You know like you say logic probably says that Pagatcha attacks 80 km out and and wins by 3 minutes but um but there’s a little seed of doubt in there now which is which kind of adds adds to the excitement um which is quite good. Yeah, I mean this isn’t a domestique podcast without me being able to talk about Remco. So, uh let’s start. Um it is just I I think he showcased there uh in the time trial that uh he’s had a really good block of preparation uh that he’s finally been able to to train properly. I think he said that basically it’s first time this season where he had a a solid month of training in uh without interruptions with with illnesses or whatever. Um, and yeah, of course, a time trial isn’t the same as a road race, but the the contrast between uh his performance and the per performance of Pagotcher is I do think it it’s saying something and um that Remco is coming into this really strong and that Pagotcher is perhaps fatigued after a very long season and um yeah, maybe Um, Remco gets to thank Visma Lisa Bike for their uh for their tour to France work where they kind of killed off uh Pagatra for the rest of the season. I think dur I think during the tour of France, people kind of quickly forgot the the two months of training that Remco missed over the over the winter um you know when he was hit by that by that car door and that he only started racing in April and people were saying you know he’s he’s washed because he’s you know he’s so far away from from Pagata. Um, but I think now, you know, maybe, you know, now now we’re kind of two months further on down the line. Remco is maybe hitting his he’s maybe hitting his peak while Pagatcha is is maybe tailing off and maybe they’re going to they’re going to meet in the middle for a kind of perfect kind of titanic battle um on the streets of Kaggali. I mean, that sounds pretty pretty exciting to me. It does sound exciting. I think it might come down to the team game as well really because obviously Belgium in previous championships have obviously had a bit of a mess up haven’t they back 2021 obviously loven I don’t know what he was doing there really well but yeah go into 2025 nobody nobody did go well is he going to have to do his lone wolf kind of thing from one and gong I don’t know maybe something like that Pogar is going to obviously I think he’s definitely going to have to do a solo move otherwise he’s in I think may I think he’s going to be in serious trouble I think not winning the race because everyone is just going to team up on them, aren’t they? Let’s be honest here. Talking about teams, I think, uh, Belgium has come into this with a much more uniform strategy than what they’ve done in in past years. Uh, one leader really. I don’t think there’s any shadow leaders this time around. It is just all in for Remco. Um, and then on the side of Slovenia, yeah, you do have a rockish there. They have cars to play. But what did we see last year? Team didn’t matter. Like Pugatra just went 100 km out and even though you had teams behind, didn’t really matter. This is a course that’s even tougher. Uh that’s maybe even more uh preferential to Bugattacher. So I’m not sure if uh if the team is going to be that important. I think it’s very quickly going to come down to uh men versus men. I think that potentially, you know, looking at Pugatar’s team, you know, does that does that make people think that they they maybe even have to go earlier, you know? Yeah. Are are guys like, you know, Ben Healey or um you know, guys like the uh you know, the Italians you got there, you know, likes of likes of Jacone, the French with with Alfleipe. Are these guys are they gonna maybe go with with 200 150k to go and and kind of really put the the cat among the pigeons and say you know Pagata what’s he got doan Novak that’s probably it because I don’t see Primos Rugglitch working on the front for Tali Paga you know he may be told to but I don’t think he will so you know does that does that interview saying that he just needs to get out of the way uh which I thought was a pretty weird statement to do yes we’re at this kind of point again with Pumos Regulich this year of kind of why is he here at this race? It was almost at the tour of France, wasn’t it? He was just he didn’t really he wasn’t really bothered at the you know and and you know why is why is he here? You know he’s he’s here for Primos Robich is a guy with with ambition. He’s not a guy he’s not here to work on the front for for 80 kilometers. Um so you know I think you know I think teams should be should be aggressive should they should take confidence certainly from from the time trial on Sunday and they should think um you know we’ve got we’ve got a chance here to to do something. I think it’s going to go as well like something like Amster you know when Alfleippe did that silly move and just and it just sent Pogchaw with him. Someone’s going to have to try that and just keep doing that with Poke and just I don’t know kind of get in his head kind of thing. But it’s really hard to get in the head of Pokear, isn’t it? So I think definitely like a long range attack maybe on from 100 km on the climb at Mount Kagari. I think if someone goes there, that could be a move you’re going to have to do. But Pog will likely go as well there, wouldn’t it? You would expect. Yeah, I think that that place in the parkour is is too predictable almost. it. If someone goes there, it’s not a surprise move. Not anymore. Um maybe 10 years ago that would be a suicide move, but in modern cycling that is just it’s predicted that someone goes there and actually if nobody goes there, it’d be kind of surprising. Yeah. Um so you’d have to go in the in the lap before that and that’s actually then we’re talking about 120 130ks out. Um, which sounds like a suicide move. Um, but I think it works that way. Well, I think when you’re when you’re doing that in the in the altitude of Kaggali, I think that’s I think that will make a difference in terms of um in terms of these long long range longrange attacks. There’s only going to be so many people who can who can suffer for that long um at that altitude. some of the the heat doesn’t seem to be as much of a as much of an issue um for the riders. It’s kind of high 20s, isn’t it? But what a lot of the riders have been talking about is the air quality as well. They’ve been talking about it kind of, you know, when when they’re breathing in almost feels like um you know, the air is really thick and and it’s um and it’s kind of you know, it’s foggy and it’s kind of you know, there’s a that air quality is just not there like if you were racing in Switzerland or you’re racing somewhere. somewhere in Europe. Um, so some riders have been saying that’s almost had more of an effect on them than than the altitude. Um, but that it’d be interesting to see how that how that impacts the that’ll impact some riders more than others. Yeah, we actually saw that today with the the TT mix relay where I think uh Belgium very quickly lost Florian Vermier and uh afterwards Victor Kenas also said that uh they really underestimated the the altitude and the effects that had on their performance. Um so I think components even said that uh if the road race had been today then he wouldn’t really have been able to help uh even a pool because he just would have imploded uh and just kind of completely u misunderstood his own power numbers. Um, so looking at the the laps themselves, there is a couple of climbs on there. We’ve talked about um the Moni Gali, which is a 5.9 km at 6.8% but with peaking gradients towards the top of around 13%, I think. There’s been some footage uh online on Pagotch kind of reconing that climb. Um it looked pretty horrendous. But you also have the on the the local circuit you have the Kot Kali which is a 0.8 km climate 8% and then the Koti uh Kimhura uh which is 1.3 km at 6.2% which I think they’ve done in the TT as well. This is the cobbled climb. Yeah, this is this is cobbled one. This is like a Fllanders climb, isn’t it? Really kind of thing. I look that’s what Pitcock said today, hasn’t he? He’s Yeah, I’ve seen that. Yeah, Pitcock today he said it’s it’s like the old acquirement. Um, which is an interesting interesting comparison. Um, and and that all that just to say I mean that the the Kto Kimura as well that that is leading up to the you know that that kind of finishes as I as I’m reading this on the on the map that finishes with 1k to go um in the in the race. So, we’re thinking that’s, you know, if there’s a if there’s a situation, who knows if there’s a group that comes to line at that point, but that’s, you know, in a kind of final lap, that’s definitely a a last gasp kind of attack point as well. Mhm. Do you think it’s likely that there will be a group at that point? Who knows? Who knows? I’d really have to get my crystal ball out at that point. But um I I I don’t think it is likely, you know, with with the number of with the number of climbs, with the with the accumulation of of elevation gain. Um I think it is more likely that we’re going to see going to see ones and twos um coming coming to the line. It’s nearly I’m going to stick my neck on the line. I’m going to say it’s a guaranteed solo. I want to say it like that really. I think because someone is going to at least send it on a climb and then there’s a lot of recovery kind of in between kind of thing. You have a lot of descending and things like that. So you’re going to be if you attack you’re going to be fine kind of thing for a little bit. It’s not sustaining it. Yeah. I think something as well is um in terms of the in terms of attacking is that these roads that we’ve we’ve seen already these roads are not technical. Um these roads are not these roads are wide. Um these roads they kind of roll really nicely. There’s no furniture. They’re kind of road furniture. Um which is going to make it more difficult um for riders to attack more for riders to get away because you know as soon as on if you’re on a technical circuit you know you can get out of sight very very quickly. Um you know or maybe you know a rider can use their descending skills to get away. There’s no These are long kind of lazy corners. They’re not it’s not a technical kind of windy twisty circuit. So in terms of solo attacking, I think that is also going to going to play into things. Yeah, definitely. For sure. Yeah. Uh I mean there there is a a little bit of a a twisty section I think uh near the top of the climbs. At least what I’m seeing on the on the profile. But yeah, there are so many opportunities for attacking here. Even if it’s not technical, the opportunities, the amount of opportunities to attack or the the repetition of that I think is going to be exhausting. Combine that with the altitude. Um I don’t think we’ll see groups at the finish line uh at any point. Here’s a question. How how many finishes? O 25 is my bet. Around 25. Yeah, maybe 20. That’s pretty solid. 20 maybe less. Yeah. What about you, D? Yeah. I mean, I I think I think that’s that I think that’s that’s that’s about right because these I mean, you’re going to get riders lapped pretty quickly. I think you’re going to get you’re going to get people kind of going out the back. Um and and you know, you can get riders who just can’t finish this race. And um yeah, I think we’re we’re around about between 20 and 30 for sure. I mean, a top 20 in a world championships is a big result for for some for some riders, but if there’s might not be a top 20. Um so I think it’s it’s going to be that’s going to be fascinating. The UCI point as well, what’s the UCI points for a top 20? That’s true. this that could be significant. It’s probably quite a lot. Uh actually would like to know that now. Um I didn’t uh research it beforehand. Um, so I also don’t think it’s something that uh I think if you’ve if you’re dropped, are you really going to fight to come back or because you’re you’re passing the finish line so often, you’re just going to get off and say, “Okay, I’m done. I’m I’m through with this.” Uh because in the end, if you’re dropped with 100ks to go, what’s the point? Do you really want to do another 10 laps? Probably not. It’s the mentality of the rider, isn’t it? I think as well. Some riders want to do it and finish it. It’s like a goal kind of thing and you others you just can’t be asked, can they? Let’s be real there. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, what I I’ve been speaking to a lot of the um some some African riders who are going to be racing on on uh on Sunday um or some of the some of the smaller African teams as well. I mean, even in even in some of the junior races and some of the under 23 races, their goal is to finish, right? If they finish if they finish the race, if the juniors finish the race and then they see that as a success, which really kind of shows you sometimes kind of the the gulf in um in in development in terms of, you know, in terms of riders in in Europe and riders in you know, some riders in Africa. Um a finish is a success. I mean it’s a it’s a big it’s a big accomp accomplishment for some of these riders just to just to complete the race. Yeah. I mean the the course is also there that it just is a challenge for almost anyone to complete the race I would I would feel like. But of course if there is that deficit in in training methods and means to be able to prepare for this uh properly then yeah I can definitely understand where they’re coming from with that goal. And this fly just keeps hitting attacked by a fly. Yeah, repeatedly on my nose. That’s that’s on on the other side, just I mean just to bring in the the kind of African riders, the lack again the kind of the lack of technical nature of this course will play into the hands of the African riders. Maybe not in the elite races because these are so hard that um that’s going to kind of that’s going to kind of rule out. But in in the juniors and the under 23s um the the lack of technical uh the technical challenge in in on the course is going to play into their hands. That’s the kind of for African riders who come over to Europe and they start racing in Italy and France and Belgium with these narrow narrow roads and these these twisty horrible descents. Um which you just don’t get in Africa in in in most countries in Africa. Um you know that’s the biggest barrier for them when they when they come over to Europe. They’re not going to have that here because it’s because it’s not it’s not technical. Not as there’s one technical section but but it’s not as technical. The roads certainly aren’t as narrow. So that so we could see in some races we could see some of the Africans kind of doing better because of that. Also just as a point of a point of order the 20th in a worlds gets you 45 UCI points and and you get you score UCI points all the way back to 60th. Okay. So every finisher gets points. That’s nice. Every finisher will get will will get points but you get 900 for winning. That’s a lot. That’s a lot of use. Really doesn’t need those, does he? He should let Lnes win, I think, and then Emma will get out and go home and then we’ll talk. Thank you very much. That’s one way to look at it. Um, yeah, I think uh just quickly going to something else. Uh, the breakaway. Uh, typically we see a timid fight for a breakaway on a world championship. I think this time around we’ll see a pretty massive fight especially among African writers to to get into breakaway and and showcase uh yeah just represent their countries in their continent. Um do you think that that fight will last for a long time? I think it might go on a while. We’ve seen breakaways obviously in actual grand tour racing not in obvious world championship go on a while but due to the nature of the course I think it might go on a while but also because there’s amount of opportunities there is for like African riders to demonstrate themselves and their talents which is going to be nice to see really as well for them. Yeah, you’re going to see you’re going to probably see some African riders to be honest overextending themselves in the first 20 kilometers. You’re going to be you’re going to see some highly highly motivated riders blasting blasting away in the first in the first 10 minutes and uh and then promptly promptly go out the back because there because this is their you know this is their there’s not going to be a bigger race for them in their career for most of these guys. So fair fair play. I mean they they if they can get on the front if they can get some TV time and a world championship. I mean I’d do it that’s that’s what I’d do first. You last I’d probably last a kilometer. Just sprint for the first kilometer, get on TV and then and then that’s me done and then cuz I’m not going to do anything else. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. So I think I think we’ll I think we’ll see a lot of that. I do think I do hope that we’ll see I think it was it was it the Olympic Games road race last last year where we saw this there was this really kind of global breakaway there was riders from uh Rwanda and Uganda and Maitius and and lots of lots of these places. I think there’s a there’s a a tie rider in in there. Um and there’s a there’s a rider who’s Charles Kagimu who’s he was uh he’s two-time African champion. He’s he’s here in this race from Uganda. He was in the the in the breakaway in the Olympic Games last year for 190 km. Um and then he was and he was the only rider from the breakaway to finish the race. He was the f he was the last finisher um under under the Eiffel Tower in Paris. And um he’s got a massive engine, you know, like I said, two-time uh African TT champion. Doesn’t have a TT bike this year. Um, so he wasn’t able to do the TT um because his his team that he’s now racing with, uh, Team Amani, they um, they do gravel racing, they do road racing, but he didn’t have a a team bike with his a TT bike through through Factor, who they’re sponsored by. Um, but he is he is he is going to be here for the uh, for the road race. So, I he’d be a good a good candidate, I think, for the uh, for the breakaway. And I think it would be great to see a great to see a Rwanda rider. um in there as well. Um but let’s it’s it’s a lottery, isn’t it? Especially with the fans. The fans are absolutely crazy. And I mean the goosebumps you’re going to get from that that I think it’s maybe the best fans I’ve seen at World Championships in all honesty. They’re just absolutely mad. It’s they’re more mad than the Belgians. Well, thank you. They are. I do agree with that. uh like the even atmosphere during the TT um was was really special. Um and yeah, I think the the clips that have sort of circulated online uh of riders doing their recons and just getting swarmed by by people on bikes getting overtaken by people on bikes carrying uh like uh gallons of milk and stuff like it’s been incredible. uh and also just uh really heartwarming and I think it just kind of goes to show that uh cycling culture is also really alive there and uh they’re really passionate about it as well. If that’s all for the the main uh for the men’s race, I would also quickly go over the the women’s parkour a lot simpler of a parkour uh because it is just a local laps. There is no monkey in there. Uh but it is a 164.6 km race uh with still 3,676 m of elevation gain according to this calculation. For a women’s race that also seems just incredibly tough. Um, and without that Mount Kali, there is there’s also just it’s a lot more chaotic because there’s no like crescendo point within the race where you think, okay, that’s where it’s going to explode, which I do think that’s where it’s going to explode on the men’s race. Women’s race doesn’t have that. It’s a lot more unpredictable in my opinion. That makes it better to watch as well as as a viewer as well and also maybe to race as well. I don’t know. if some riders prefer to have that kind of predictability compared to unpredictability obviously. But yeah, I mean the women’s races all this year have been a lot more fun to watch than the men’s race, haven’t they, as well? So, absolutely. Definitely. Yeah, for sure. Um well, they still do the the Kiggali the uh the Kimhura, so I’ve I messed up the pronunciation of that name. My apologies. Um, but yeah, I think it’s still an incredibly tough course and as a a DS coming into this, I would be very confused on what to do because I think it’s very quickly going to become um a women versus women fight uh with with no clear role of of helpers. Of course, Netherlands is coming to this as the big favorite, I would say. Um, but the Netherlands always have some some tactical issues of uh being able to ride for a singular leader. Uh, do you think they’re going to be able to work it out this time? No, it’s it’s like Belgium and the men’s both of them go hand in hand with each other and always find a way to mess up. But, uh, I think I don’t think it’s going to really matter for Vering though really. I think Vering is going to be cooking there and as the youth say cooking. So I really believe in Voning in that race. You don’t think Vonda Breen is going to be an issue within her team? Voning can do it herself. I I think Yeah. It’s going to be interesting, isn’t it? I I think this race is going to play I It’s different for the men’s race because um often in in women’s races like this, we don’t see a big breakaway. um often it’s partly because there’s just not the depth in in the field that that they have in in in the men’s field. Um so I I think what we’re going to see is rather than we we’ll see a couple of riders who who make make attempts at breakaways, but I think what we’re going to see is is a is a gradual kind of ratcheting up of the pace um as as the laps go on. And I think you know I think you’re right. I think with 100 km to go, if there’s 20 riders left in the front group, I’d be pretty surprised. And then we’re just going to get an allout kind of slog for for 100k and and and let’s see let’s see who wins. But I think but again it’s yes who who does who kind of sits on the front and and raises that pace. The Dutch team I think I think you do I think you know you have you have Voling and Vanderbre but you don’t have a Peter here. Yeah, you don’t have you don’t have a third rider to throw in who is kind of who who’s there to to spoil spoil it a little bit more. And so you do then have five riders who I’d say I’d say those other five riders, they’re not going to have their own ambitions. They’re going to be they’re going to be riding on the front. um you know so we’re going to see then them control but then it’s then I think they they they potentially if they burn those matches they potentially come under a bit of a threat from the French a bit of a threat from from Marlm Royer who looks very good Italians have got a good team here you know Kim Lort I think Kim Lort is is a big uh is a big threat in this race um but certainly it’s going to I think teams are going to look at the Dutch. They they’re going to they’re going to they’re going to follow what the Dutch do. Um I think the Dutch will take it up, take responsibility, and um and we’ll see we’ll see a real um like you said, Ethan, I women’s racing, especially this season, last season. It is cracking, isn’t it? It’s been so much more It’s so much more entertaining than the men’s. You know what’s going to happen. Yeah. And and we’re going to see we’re going to see a fantastic race, I think, on Saturday. Yeah, I completely agree and it is sort of the uh that unpredictability but also with the with the strength of the teams like can actually Netherlands their their dos be able to to carry this race beyond the first 50 kilometers or will we see a provo just also try to explode the race and and just very quickly go to a one-on-one one fight or like a much more reduced group fight. It’s going to end up becoming just a massive slugfest, I think. Then Fon Provo and Verin are going to be dueling for the win. That’s why I think maybe the court back just behind that. That’s in my head. But but I mean if you got a Feron Bravo versus Volering fight for a rainbow jersey, he’d be incredible, wouldn’t it? It would. I do think this Dutch team is better than that though. I think I think I think you know you got Vanam Roy and you’ve got Roy Yakas and you’ve got Castelline. They’re three fantastic climbers. I think that you know those guys can last get them to if they were going themselves. They’re you know they’re top 10 contenders for the race, top five even. And so I you know I see those guys kind of going deeper into into the race. But I do I do I do agree Pauline Feron Provo is is the big is the biggest threat. Obviously we saw that in in the to France fun she did have some trouble with her preparation didn’t she? She was stuck in an airport for 24 hours on Monday. I think uh I had not heard that there was a big um there was a big kind of hack on the the airport on all the airports. Yeah. On on the IT systems. And so she she said I think she said online I think she said that she she’s going to be fresh because yeah she’s had one one extra day off the bike. You know what what impact is that going to have? Um I’m not really sure. She is going to be fresh. So that’s um that’s probably a good thing. So So Paul will have a big impact but I think I think No, I think she’ll be okay. Yeah. I think the the rider to watch the other rider to watch here is Marlon Royer. I think TT obviously absolutely remarkable performance. Um we also saw that um in the mixed relay we saw her kind of smashing on the front having a mechanical getting dropped and then chasing back her team and and then riding her team in. Uh so she is absolutely flying Marlon Royster. Um we saw we’ve seen her earlier this year. Obviously, she had um she she had trouble at the tour of France, but she was second in the Jirro. Um you know, she’s won multiple races this year. She’s won this year, I was looking back in her results earlier. This year, she’s won her first uh UCI one-day race in her whole career outside of national championships. Um Okay. Didn’t know that. So well she so that I think that that probably shows you know compared to Volering compared to Feron Provo she is not um she’s not as good a one-day racer as as those two and and as some others here in this race but and she’s she’s also not going to win in a sprint. So she is going to have to be solo. Um, but she is the rider that you could be most confident of her form um than anyone else. And also, if she goes solo, then she has the ability to stay away. They’re not going to be catching. No. No. Uh but I also think I want to call out the French team with and Labus who are able to to help out uh put quite deeply into the final. I think uh as well in that team as well. Yeah, exactly. Um super strong team. I think that’s definitely able to to rival the Netherlands and um sort of knowing the tactics from the the French team on the men’s side. Uh they love a little bit of early warfare and kind of catching the main favorite team by surprise and just uh perhaps sending Kal or Labus on the attack very early on completely burning up the Dutch team. That’s kind of what I would expect to see. Um, yeah, that’s my expectations. I don’t know about you guys. Yeah, I think the the other two riders in in here and probably in that favorites bracket, you know, I think we we’ve mentioned Kim Lort. There’s also um Cassini. Um I I’m not sure of her form really and I’m not sure of her on this cobweb climb. Um whether she’s going to be as strong as as Volering and and others on this cobble climb. Um but I certainly think you know we’ve mentioned Laort if if there is a group that comes to the line um nobody beats Lort in a sprint. I think you know I think that was we saw that at least best on Lege we saw that in the tour to France nobody beats her it’s just whether um I think this this course has almost a thousand more meters of elevation gain than than Leage bus on Leazge. I think it’s maybe 800 between 800 900 more meters. So it’s whether that accumulation of of climbing will be it be it’s going to be right on her limit and it’s gonna that’s going to then play into the hands of of the likes of following and for provo. Um yeah, so I think I think uh in terms of motivation uh uh having the race on the African continent is definitely uh going to help um her push it a little bit maybe beyond her her comfort zone where she would normally be and really dig deep. Yeah, possibly. I’ve interviewed her a few times and um I don’t think she’s she’s never lacking for motivation or confidence. She is, you know, of probably of of most of the riders I’ve spoken to, I’ve not really spoken to a rider who’s as mentally strong as as Kim Lort. Um, she is so confident. um she she knows she she can really push herself and she um I was speaking to so I spoke to her just before Milan San Ramo um earlier this year and she said uh she she believed that she uh she had the the strength and and the ability to challenge the likes of Volering but she just never got the opportunity to. either she’d been she’s been out of position or she’s been uh you know something something in a race had always gone wrong and she’d never had that chance to kind of go toe-to-toe you know following attacks and then we saw Le Bras Leation and that’s and that and that’s what happened she was able to stick with them and she was able to beat them in a sprint so I think she’s not going to be you know motivation is not going to be a problem I don’t think it ever is and and you’re right you know maybe it you Maybe she’ll she’ll push a little bit more, but they’ve I think they’ve got to get rid of I think that would be a big thought in in their minds is they’ve got to get rid of Kim McCor. Yeah, she being from Maitius, you know, her teammates won’t won’t be with her past 50 km if that. So, so she’s not going to have the support of of her team. Um but but they still have to they still have to drop her somehow. It’s a it’s a really nice introduction to the the character of of Kim No as well. Um that’s really insightful. Thank you. Uh anything else on the women’s field or are we ready to swap back to the men’s field and and also talk a little bit about the the outsiders there? I think everyone has got to give the podium. I That’s always a good one, isn’t it? Everyone stick their neck on the line first. The women’s podium. Yeah, the women’s podium. Um, I can start with uh first place provo uh voling and roer. You copied my pick. Well, don’t let me go first then. I I will say I’m going to bet on the form and I’m going to say Marlon Royster is gonna win the Rainbow Bands. I think behind her I think we’re gonna see um we’re gonna see a mess up from the Dutch but I think I think then we’re gonna see an Anna Vanderan come in second place. She so you know she was second. So this is that’s a one two from your TT. So um so maybe not being uh then I think we’ll see we’ll see Pauline from Provo after that. Uh Pauline F provoke first then this I can’t say brand choice now can I? So I’m going to go uh Kim Lor second and then Ving third. I don’t know why I believe in Kim Lor a lot. The motivation is there, isn’t it? So I mean she’s also said that it’s a real goal for her. So uh yeah, sounds good. Um all right, back to the men’s side. Uh of course we have one top favorite. We’ve already discussed at the top. Um, I think you got to say two favorites. I want to say I didn’t want to go there cuz I’m too biased. If you want to go there, then you can go there. It has to. You have to say two favorites, Pacio and Emipo. Yeah, I mean I agree. um especially after the TT um where I think even well it’s a TT uh even perhaps the the best well not perhaps is the best uh in the world at that uh but still being able to to cash your your rider in front of you with two and a half minutes mentally I think that has to have some effect on on a pager kind of getting to feel how good even a pool is. Uh even on that last little climb up to the line, still losing time there even though there was some drafting opportunity and still getting distanced. Um yeah, I think that has to have some effect. But no, you know, it also is kind of a spur pog moment because you see in the tour obviously this year it was all like his spots where he had his moments of weakness and he came back and went I’m having that thank you very much and made it his own. So is in that exact same spot is Pogchaw going to drop Ever on the exact spot of that climber where he got overtaken. Oh that would be that would be that would be a headline, wouldn’t it? There you go. It would be it would be kind the kind of thing that could happen, you know. I think really as well. It depends on um the outcome of the Maliki as well. True. But of course, I think with both of those two, if they do go solo, once they are solo, I think both of them can be expected to stay away. Uh typically when either of do either of those two are clear of the bunch there really isn’t much opportunity for for catching them. It doesn’t happen very often at least. Well, I mean, Roto last year, I mean, he was he looked a bit like shake, you know what I mean? Kind of thing. Pog Ch, but obviously held on. Evo, I think if Evan Paul’s gone, he’s gone. You can’t catch him. Pog is he has the moments, doesn’t he? Yeah. It’s going to be again, it’s going to be it’s going to be how they judge it with this uh with the air quality, with the um with the um the elevation. is it’s going to be I think that’s going to be if you can get it I think you can get this race really wrong. Um I think I think you can you can think this is the power I put down when I’m in Europe. I’m going to be able to put this power down now. And that’s what we’ve seen riders riders saying that they’re not meeting their um their power targets. They’re not meeting their power targets in in the time trial. Um so what do they do? you know, do they do they just knock their power targets down by by 10% for the road race? Um, and say, “I’m gonna say, I’m going to do that.” Um, you know, I think it’s it’s going to be really easy to to misjudge uh misjudge your effort in this in this race. I think Pagato, they got the teams behind them to probably get that right. Um, but there’s a bit of jeopardy there. Mhm. Of course, there was already that opportunity to completely misjudge your uh your power estimates in the TT. Um I think from that we can already conclude that it’s a mistake that is unlikely to befall to Remco cuz he judged that effort pretty spot on. And there’s there’s one thing misjudging a judging a TT and and a 260 70k road races. I think it’s there’s a slight there’s a slight difference there. Um but it’s um but it’s it’s true. I think I think Remco he’s he’s a sort of guy who’s that’s going to be in his brain already. He’s already probably made those calculations um along with his coach definitely. Um next to those uh I think there are well I think four or five up to 10 if you want to be generous. other favorites that could have like a a surprise role or or kind of well to be honest I’d be really surprised if the world champion jersey next year isn’t worn by Pattach or Iapool but we have to talk about other options as well. Um, ones I want to call out. Uh, Healey, uh, Del Toro, Chicone Toro, and Pitcock. Pitcock. No. No. Too tough. I don’t I don’t maybe I think many people like uh, what’s the word? kind of like are seeing him now as a GC rider and obviously Dewa and what impact is that going to have on now the world championships. I think it the elevation is a pretty much for Pitcock but Del Toro actually I think Del Toro is a really really like nailed on kind of third kind of thing. I’d also think he may end up just completely blowing up. That’s what I believe he going to go all in and then go could put like a betio in uh what race is it? Was it? Yeah. Yeah, that was it. Yeah, that’s what I think. Yeah. But yeah, I mean other than that the outside is one of the guys who probably goes with 150ks to go. Yeah. And then all get ahead of it all. Yeah. I think he did that last year as well, didn’t you? Yeah. There’s a there’s maybe three three more names I’d like to throw in. I think um Juan Yuso is is an interesting guy to think about here. What form is he in looking at the Welter? I mean, who knows really. He had a good training camp there. He had a good training camp. He had a lot of rest at the Welter. You know, don’t think he’s that tired. Lots of rest. Um, you know, there there is a there’s a a line of logic that suggests that Hana Yuso is absolutely flying. Um, and could, you know, he he could be the he could be a big challenger to to Pagacha. True. Um he also has Markxler in his team and he’s already said that if you want to be a Pagotcher we have to make it as tough as possible which is kind of weird to hear from his own teammate is kind of exposed. Okay, if we want to beat him you just have to make it as hard as possible. It’s like shouldn’t you not be saying how you can beat your own leader? Well I think Mark Salair and Juanuso are kindred spirits aren’t they? They’re they’re one and the same, the two of them, you know. I think they’re both they’re all right for, you know, at times for their team, but they’re they’ll also take their own chances, won’t they? So, Mark Salah knows what he knows what game to play. Yeah, definitely. Uh especially at every year. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Another guy I’d mention as well, we don’t know, again, we don’t know probably where he’s at, but but Richard Carropaz, um I’d say, you know, he’s he’s a guy who can do these long one day races. Um he’s going to he’s going to love the altitude. I think, you know, he’s he if if he’s if he’s on form, I mean, we don’t know where his form is. We saw him in a few was it the Italian one day races? Um he was working on the I think was it I’m not sure he was or was at a stage race I can’t remember but he was he was working he wasn’t really riding for himself he was working on the front clearly getting trying to get a good good bit of training in um was in Luxembourg I think Luxembourg yeah so he was doing leadouts in Luxembourg if if I remember rightly and so he’s he’s clearly trying to tune his form there so I think that’s I think that’s an interesting interesting ride to to think of you know is he is he going win really. Um, you know, he’s going to have to be, you know, really probably the best we’ve ever seen him. You never know with carrop things like that, he always springs a surprise like a jack out in the box. It’s like prime carrop, isn’t it really? I mean, if he won, that would be some scenes in his homeland of Ecuador. Absolutely crazy. I mean, nobody really expected him to win the Olympics, I think, uh, last time around. Um, or maybe some people did. I didn’t. Uh so he definitely has it in him to win these tough uh like long distance races. Uh and yeah, what you’re calling out altitude 100%. Um many of the South Americans are going to be in a nice kind of thing, aren’t they really? So now is here. I mean, what can Bernal do there? That’s a good question. I don’t know. I think he’s um yeah, I think we he kind of showed join the welter. He’s probably not at the level anymore. I don’t think personally I don’t think Benau is is he’s not going to get back to these elite levels. He’s he’ll never get back to that levels. He’s just no. I mean it was nice to see him win the stage obviously in the circumstances and maybe like cycling and he’s just gone too much about what too much of like ahead of his peak kind of thing in terms of the way GC is now as well. So it’ll be interesting to see what he can do. That would be some stories he couldn’t achieve a good result though as well. Yeah, absolutely. I think I think I think as well just coming back to Isaac Del Toro, I think he’s uh I think he is an interesting rider to think about since returning from the from the Jirro like he he’s he came back at the tour of Austria. I think he’s done 21 race days and he’s won 11 times um win in two months. It’s been it’s been unbelievable. It’s the way he’s won as well though I think as well. You mean sorry then he goes and wins in any way like you see in the was it the Pentani race where he won out of like the reduced punch he can win solo he can go on the attack on the climb and things like that. So I mean if it came down to like a reduced kind of thing I think Del Toro out if it might distance. Yeah. Um I’d agree with that. proven at this distance. He was um he was top 15 at Milan San Ramo this year, but that’s obviously not got the same kind of level of level of intensity. Um but you’re right, he’s he’s not winning races regularly kind of over over 200, right? Uh one more name I want to throw into that uh mix is is Primos. Um I think we’ve we’ve said it earlier. uh he doesn’t come to races without certain ambition like he does want to be able to do something. Uh he said he just needs to get out of the way. I don’t think that’s that’s what Rogich does. Does he just ignore his team and and try something and or does he does he just vanish? Not gamble with him. He’s still going to at least play some part. I mean, that’s why I like Rog Luch a lot because he just goes and does what he wants, whatever he wants. So, you ought to respect it at the end of the day. He’s near the end of his career. Could it be his last year in his career? I don’t know. But it’s just he’s got next year. Well, yeah. I mean, obvious retirement, you know what I mean? Kind of thing. Like not giving up, but the goals are just not there kind of thing. So, yeah. Well, he was he was the man at Red Bull, wasn’t he, when Red Bull came in. I mean, he was he was supposed to be the man and they’ve got a new man now. So, I think it’s I think that’s probably paying playing on his playing on his mind a bit. I think he’s looked at other options. Yeah, I think probably look elsewhere. Yeah, I think probably sadly I think what Primos Ragglitch does is just get dropped. I I don’t really see he’s not raced in nearly two months. He’s not raced since San Sebastian. Um, yeah. I I’m not sure. Again, I’m not sure why he’s chosen to come. Um, maybe he is flying. Maybe maybe I’m going to eat my words here. Um, but yeah, I think I think he just gets dropped sadly. I think it says a lot that he didn’t choose to do the TT um as a former Olympic champion in that discipline. Um, I think he had every right to kind of do that TT and and go full gas there and kind of show us what he got, but there’s also the the chance that he wants to keep his his form a surprise and since he’s not raced for so long, he might actually be flying and unleashes on Sunday. I completely like just joke guy in the thing of Rogich. I mean, imagine he obviously has a big fan base, doesn’t he? That would be they’d be collecting all the receipts of every single person who was hazing on Rogich and probably dishing it out to them as they do, which is fair enough. Expect them in the comments of our podcast. I think actually I think he’ll get a top 10, you know, Rogich. I would say that because if he’s here, he’s here for a reason, you know. I mean, he’s that’s just the type of guy he is. Is he? I’m not sure cuz I can also just see him. Oh, no. It was fun. I got a free I got a good trip out of it. Yeah. Wait, if he comes 10 in the top 10, that’s him do some interview going, “Yeah, I mean, he just turned up. That’s if he just turns up, he could at least come 10th.” No, I think he either DNFS after 100 kilometers or like full sends it. Nothing in between. kind of thing where he just went. Yeah, it’s all or nothing. That’s that’s the point in his career where he’s at. Like it’s either like trying to ride for the win or just not bothering cuz why otherwise do anything? What’s he going to achieve with a 10th place in a world championship? Is that something he’s going to look back at next year at the end of his career and say, “Yeah, did that top 10 at the World Championship. That’s me.” Uh, no. then he’s just going to get off the bike and just No, don’t want it. Let’s go home. Let’s go have a beer. I’m going to throw one I’m going to throw one last rider in. Um just so we’ve mentioned him just in case he wins uh because he did in April. He he beat Pagatu in April and it’s the Matias Skilmas. I think that is a rider again if he’s flying if he if he’s in if he’s in a group. I think he’s a I think he’s a he’s a podium contender. Um for sure. I think he’s he’s worth mentioning. He did have a crash, didn’t he? Or was it? He always seems to have one though. That’s his issue for me really. Was it in the Maryland? Is it in Maryland? Yeah. Yeah, the Mland. Yeah, the in the Baltimore kind of thing, isn’t it? And then he had one in the Was it the tour as well that he had one as well or was it the Jira? Uh that was the tour, I think. Yeah, the tour and nasty one. I mean, he always finds a way to crush which is it’s unlucky for him. It’s kind of like the rock ditch trait kind of thing. Yeah, but he after that crash in Maryland, he did get fourth place in Quebec, so I don’t think the result of that crash was was that bad. Um he did also do Luxembourg where he got second in GC after uh winning a stage and uh having a pretty good TT as well as well if it comes down to like the juice punch kind of thing. I mean he’s one of the best in the world a kick. So absolutely can smoke a lot of people there. And I want to go and mention one more name. He had a very good TT on Sunday and that is Lchnes. Lengnes does like it when the going gets tough. A sixth place is very good as well, but the team for Norway is obviously not the best. The embra butchering that name, but if he goes, he can goes and and just carry himself. So, I don’t know if there any more other riders. This I’ve heard this name I’ve heard Lesnerson called out. That’s the second time I’ve heard it called out this week. I don’t I’m I’m not I don’t understand really. I just I don’t I don’t see it. I think he’s just level and I don’t think he’s on the level genuinely when he goes in like a breakaway or things like that for example. Yeah. He just completely motor. So we’re talking we if we see Ben Healey Andreas Leon’s I don’t know Mark Salair in a mid in a mid-ra breakaway then Pagatra and Remco are in trouble. Wow. Sal would just sit on and do nothing. So, I don’t know. Something like that. It would be typical. To be fair, Ben Healey’s in a breakaway. He’s just doing all the writing, isn’t he? Yeah, that’s true. He’s not asking anything. Completely just honest with like his style. Is there any other names? I’m trying to think. I mentioned just saw Oscar only on the list and fourth place from the tour. I think you do kind of have to talk about him uh and see that uh it could be something got a good kick on him as well as well. I I’ll I’ll support that Onley. I I’ll support that onley onley pick. I I live 20 minutes away from uh from Oscar Onley from where where he grew up. And um so I know the roads around here are pretty they’re pretty punchy. Um but no, he’s he’s a rider who’s done he’s done incredibly well um this year. Race Tour of Britain, didn’t he? And um you know, he wasn’t really he wasn’t kind of over and above anybody else, was he? He was kind of middling. um in that race. So maybe he’s coming back into some form, but you know, you got to think as well, yeah, he probably built up to the tour for months and months and months. Huge crescendo at the tour. You know, he probably took a week and a half off um and barely did anything. You know, was he really expecting to to do much after the tour? I’m not sure. So again, it’s a, you know, for a lot of these riders, it’s a it’s a question of who knows where their form is at. Um, true. So we’ll we’ll see. Uh, with only I think he went to Canada as well, DNFed in Quebec, and got 19th in Montreal. So that’s not super promising. It’s not really a demonstration of form. And yeah in in tour of Britain the stage the tumble where it was there he attacked one. Yeah there’s a massive headwind I think in into that uh on on that climb and I think that was the that was the problem. But he did he did get away in in there but but you’re right you know in Canada wasn’t wasn’t quite at the level of of Pagatcha. Right. Um, I’ve been sort of on the side reading the the preview from Tropino, which is going to go live on on our website probably around the same time that this episode comes out. Um, so I can already talk about it. Uh he’s also calling out as their side favorites uh or guys to watch uh Civikov Simmons. Squins is always there or thereabouts in the world championships around the top 10 is like always I mean last year where was it? Surely too tough for him. Yeah, but like that’s the thing with him. You say he’s too tough and then he somehow finds his way in fifth or sixth or seventh. But I don’t think we’ve seen that at all. I don’t think we’ve seen Squint do that at all this season. He hasn’t he hasn’t had the season like last year. Yeah. Hand of thing. The French team is very good by the way. I’ve just seen it there. What obviously Eric Petrron has said there. Civicov also have Louis Barry who showed himself in the Canadian races. uh Ja as well as somehow in the tour he was that incredible really I think just like not even on the TV kind of thing getting himself the breakaways then in the end as well towards the end and also in Luxembourg he was with some of the strongest climbers in the world so yeah that would be a interesting proposition the way he played out the French with Alfie yeah Alfipe would be the writer to to call out for them and and maybe Civic I don’t know Civico maybe I don’t know what they did there too many riders the same kind of level true it is it is a little bit chaos and then I’m going to throw in one more name and then I’m completely done and that’s Jvine uh third place or second place in the TT uh coming out of the VA with incredible shape um elevation like the the altitude could gain not a problem for him. I feel like he built for these. So, but one day races for Jvine, it’s kind of untested territory. I think if we can recall Jine really showing himself in the one day race at all. No, typically I think so. But he does he does he does have the form. He is probably Australia’s leader next to Ji Hindley. Um but um very nice team. It’s a nice team. I mean very nice. Let’s I mean let’s face it, we’re probably named like 12, 13, 14 riders, which is a lot. Um but at the end of the day, it’s going to come down to to one or two or three, isn’t it? And it’s yeah, it’s the way these things work, but you never know which one which one or two or three, but we might do that. It is just if it’s a surprise, we have to be able to say we mentioned them and we talked about them, clip it for social media. Uh seemed like we’re wise. Yeah. To it. Well, now Bal Balcommer is going to win and and uh you know, we didn’t mention him. So there you go. Ah, but now you have so All right. Uh let’s maybe do some podiums. I will go last this time just because I went first last time. So Ethan, maybe you go first. Einapole uh Pogar. That the third place is is very very hard to predict. Um leaning between Delta or Simmons. See, Simmons is not a name we’ve we’ve talked about yet and you’re just throwing him in there. Simmons. Go on. And Simmons. That would be cool to see. Would be really cool to see. Uh don’t know if it’s it’s too tough for him, but he’s proven that like really tough one day races is something that you can do, but this tough is is something else. The American power, that’s what it is, Dan. What’s your pick? I think well, here’s race situation. And I think what we’re going to see is a big Pagatcha attack, you know, in in his usual, you know, maybe maybe not quite maybe not, you know, not not quite like last year. Maybe sort of 70. Will he stand on the pedals or stay seated? No, he doesn’t that’s a prediction itself now. No, he’s he doesn’t need to do that. Does he he’s that’s what he does now is a seated attacks. So seated attack with 70k to go. I think we see Remco slightly overconfident. Sorry. I think you think I think he’s going to think he can follow Pagatcha. Um but Pagata has lulled him into that false sense of security and he’s going to hang on to his wheel and then um and then I think what you said Ethan at that point where Pagata was overtaken by Avenol in the time trial, we’re going to see Aventipole go pop outside the top 10. And then we’re going to see uh we’re going to see Pagatcha. It would be amazing, wouldn’t it? We’re then go see Pagatcha. He’s going to win by 1 minute and 40, I’d say. And then we’re going to see uh Skamas in second place. And I’ll back Oscar Onley. Oscar Onley for a podium on at the World Championships. That would be pretty cool. And Remco propaganda machine. Let’s see. If he doesn’t say Remco is crazy. To be fair, you’ve already picked Remco to win. So why do you call me the Remco propaganda machine? Uh because I Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know. I just feel it. Okay. Uh I will actually say today Pagasho will win. Um but with Remco in second, not any of that top 10 or maybe even outside of top 10. Um so Remco in second and then in third I’m going to place um Hana wants to um yeah really a very specific prediction from you Dana I like that uh you can also kind of see it play out. I don’t know if Pagasha has that pettiness in him to like really want to break at that specific spot. He’s going to wait for that moment and drop drop 1,200 watts and it’s going to be that’s going to be game over for Remco. He did turn petty though in the tour a little bit kind of thing like that. So yeah, he kind of did. Um you could kind of see him but you I mean there’s Yeah, there’s a number of possibilities here. I mean I I can see why are you so winning? I don’t know. There’s some there’s something within me that that sees that happening. Um, I don’t know if that’s very silly, but um, I can see I can see him hanging on to Pagatcha if Pagata is not quite there and uh, and attacking. You know, I don’t think we’ve not seen I think you’ve got riders like Juano, you got riders like Isaac Del Toro who we haven’t seen their limits. Guys like Chiconei, guys like uh, you know, Healey Pitcock, Carropaz, we’ve seen how far they can go. We’ve seen them be dropped by um, by Paga. Um, are you and Del Toro I mean by virtue of him them being his teammates and them being young and upcoming riders, improving riders. We’ve never we’ve we’ve not seen, you know, it there has to be a breakthrough moment at one point. There has to be a moment where in Pagacha’s career where somebody comes up and and overtakes him. I don’t think it’s yet. I don’t think it’s probably for another, you know, 5 years, but I think he’ll be by then. No. Well, you know, there’s there’s, you know, could he he may he may take a sabbatical after this year. That’s al that’s been Well, I don’t I don’t know if that’s been rumored, but somebody somebody’s suggested that idea that he could take a break. But, you know, I think, you know, could could we see are we gonna, you know, are we going to see a big breakthrough ride, you know, by someone like Aiso or or Del Toro or Onley, you know, some one of these young guys? We’ve, you know, we’ve said, you know, there’s so many young massive talents coming through. Um, are we going to see one of them say, you know, I’m I’m going to I’m stepping up into this big five into this this elite category of of riders. You know, maybe Sunday’s the day. has to happen sometime. It would be especially I think with Aruso, it would be just a massive middle finger to UA’s management if you know what like if I can race against him, I can actually hold on and do this. Uh but you guys didn’t trust me or didn’t have enough faith in me. I can just see him do that. It’s a shame though, Bram. He uh he could have got to show off the rainbow jersey in the tour of Guangji. But maybe that like maybe UAE will will still send him there to be so he can have as many race days as possible in that beautiful jersey. I can also see them being that petty. Yeah, I honestly probably could. I mean, we had that discussion when that came out, that article came out that uh they let him off of racing it as well. It was I saw that. Yeah. Quite comical. Yeah. I still think they’re going like I still think they’re going to send him. It’d be hilarious because linking it to a dictatorship surely you’d still hold that to account and say you said that and then this is your punishment. I mean calling a dictatorship is is it one of the maddest things you’ve probably seen in cycling is maybe not the place to uh O yeah. Imagine that a dict calling a dictatorship and then going and win in front of a dictator. It would be I mean yeah yeah okay some uh well um I think that that’s all. Uh I think we’ve covered the road races. I think we’ve covered all of our favorites. We’ve covered our podiums. So, uh, now it’s time to see how accurate we’ve been, uh, and wrap up this podcast. Uh, I want to thank both of you for for talking through this. Uh, and I want to thank everyone who’s listened, uh, for this far to our rambles. Uh, and yeah, enjoy the World Championships and talk to you soon. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.