Hi all – please mention is not on topic and I'll remove – I'm after some advice here to ensure that I deal with an issue that has occurred after I recently sold a bike. This was a private sale, and (in the UK), I am aware that I have no legal responsibility to refund / replace / repair (in most cases), but I want to make sure that as a good faith seller I didn't miss something that I should have spotted and I can give the right advice to the person who bought the bike. Sorry it's a bit long.
I picked up a Giant Defy Aluxx (2010 – I think) 2nd hand in December to try drop bars. Did NOT like them and decided to move it on for a few quid less.
I sold it privately on marketplace last week, and delivered to the person who bought it. They inspected, tested and paid – I got the impression they are not super familiar with bikes, so I explained how to adjust the handlebars and saddle etc…
The next day they contacted with a picture (below) showing the pedal crank arm has come off, and that following some advice from a local bike shop this would have been a pre-existing problem that I would have known about. This shop is a small chain, but it's not one that I would ever use myself frankly (and also adds to my perspective that they aren't really familiar with cycling) – I am also not 100% sure they have actually been to the bike shop… The picture also showed that they had unscrewed the foot clips that were on the pedals, so I suspect they might have messed around in other ways too – perhaps tried to remove the arm without undoing it properly. The pics are all really bad quality, but I am fairly sure its genuine pics of that bike.
I guess what I'd appreciate perspective on is:
1 – They are unable to explain the issue to me in proper detail, if anyone has any ideas what might have happened (technically/non tech, i.e. the bit in the middle has snapped etc…) that would be much appreciated.
2 – Does this look like an issue that I should have been able to spot, and could it have legitimately broken within the space of 15mins between me riding 1/2 mile it for a final test before delivery, and them going 1 mile home on it from the drop off. I am no expert, but I can change a brake set etc.. – I had done around 30 miles on the bike with no issues at all trying the drop bars, so I feel like I would have spotted something if it was particularly bad.
3 – In terms of a fix, the bike shop have told him it'll be over £200… Appreciate that labour is involved, but does this sound legit?
Pictures are:
Bike before I sold it (full size just for identifcation to show what it is)
How the crack arm looks normally.
Some pics he sent back to me
by nomurnomo
25 Comments
when did you last ride the bike before selling? i strongly believe, you would’ve noticed a wobbly crank, would’nt you?
No problems with u u sold it problems. Block and ignore he might be genuine he might not and not ur problem. Or say it was working with u
For me it looks like they removed the crank arm. I would tell him to put it back on, if he can’t provide more details what exactly is wrong.
Privat auction, no need for After-Care.
Personal Opinion: block the buyer before he can make a negative review on your profile (considering you absolutely did not purposely sell a known broken bike).
The story is not impossible. If a crank arm is not properly tightened, it can wiggle around while you ride the bike, eventually working itself loose and falling off. In that process the crankset can also be damaged. The repair is not particularily labour-intensive, but a new crankset can be expensive if the entire thing needs to be replaced.
EDIT: Can’t edit the main post, but before delivery I did put tyres back up to pressure, oil on chain, and a 10-15mins test ride on it just before delivering to check gears were still switching as expected and generally OK – didn’t notice any issues.
I had also done 20ish miles on it previously while deciding if I liked the drop bars.
Might be late to helping but in your pictures the arm looks undamaged on the outside. If you look at his picture (second to last picture), to me it looks like the crank has taken a side hit/skid? Also the inside of the crank isn’t a nice circle anymore, you can see its deformed on one side. Theres also evidence of someone trying to pry it off the bike if you look at the 5th picture (same picture which shows a deformed circle). I could be wrong but, the damage is on one side, if it was loose we would surely see damage to two sides if it was wobbling. There is also pry marks, so either he fucked up when trying to take it off, or had a crash?
I had I similar issue with this Crank like 12 years ago. Reason was, that the crank was overtightened once in the past, and deformed permanently (the alloy of the Omega Crank is weak as butter). Replacement preload bolt (they are alloy in this case) would not help. Got loose again and again. But finding a similar cheap replacement should not cost much. Keep in mind this is really entry level.
It ain’t your problem. I have purchase bikes off marketplace that have had issues. As a second hand bike buyer you got to accept it can happen and you just get on and deal with it. If they wanted after sales support they opted for the worst possible way to purchase something.
Absolutely not £200 to fix that is utter bollocks, which makes me think he’s trying it on. Since there’s evidence he has taken off the pedal you don’t know what else he has done. It’s his responsibility as a buyer to ensure what he is buying is okay, and since you didn’t set out with bad intentions you haven’t done anything wrong. If you noticed beforehand and sold it anyway, then I would be inclined to pick it up and get it serviced yourself but if you didn’t see it, and he didn’t pick it up on the test ride then you can keep your integrity as a seller
The buyer runs the risk of issues buying used.
The seller sold in good faith.
When I sell a car I make a point of “sold as seen” and usually give the advice of having a specialised check it over BEFORE buying. You are not liable for any mechanical wear or tear from the point of sale.
Wash your hands and walk away.
I’m not sure what’s actually broken? The crank arm looks fine, the axle’s teeth looks fine, have they snapped the preload bolt off?
Could this be legit? Sure. Crank bolts can loosen, cranks can fall off, especially on square taper and octalink-style cranks, like those are.
Would you have known about it? Probably not, unless you happened to inspect the cranks at a point just before they fell off. This issue has happened to many, many people, and it always sounded like it surprised them when it happened.
That said, the pictures look like bullshit. The silver retaining cap that tightens the crank arm onto the bottom bracket spindle would have to come out, along with both of the clamping bolts needing to be loose enough to allow the crank to wiggle off. Three failure points that all had to fail for this to happen.
Those three failures that all combine to lead to a crank arm falling off, while not impossible, is very implausible. Much more likely that they buyer is trying to scam you out of $200 because you, as a good person, don’t want to feel bad about something like this happening.
I’d make wagers that they never took it to a shop, and they didn’t get quoted $200 to replace that. They’re just trying to to get a bike for cheaper than you would’ve sold it otherwise.
Tell them to kick rocks.
I mean you’re doing a lot more than you need to. Bike was bought as is.. unless you made specific claims about this part prior to sale I dont see how you’re responsible
I’m not convinced it’s even the same crank.
200$ to fix? I hate bike parts cannon mechanics for their refusal to touch modern tools like bolt extractors.
Anyways, a bolt extractor to fish out the remnants of that clamp bolt which threads into the axle, a new bolt ( lets just say 20$ at max ) and then re-assemble. Anything else is in the realm of tuning up the bike which is on the new buyer.
And no, the two clamping bolts on that crank arm would probably have been tight enough you wouldn’t have noticed it slowly slipping off. In fact with those two tightened the ending bolt shouldn’t be needed as it’s only used to set the bearing preload before clamping the crank arm in place.
Only you know if you lied about the damaged arm. I’m assuming you didn’t, and therefore it’s not your problem. You have no idea how they treated the bike once out left your possession and they may be pulling one over on you from their mistakes. It could also be bad luck.
Just apologize that happened and mention there’s no way for you to know what happened after they took possession.
You checked it over to the best of your abilities before they collected it and it sounds like you gave the buyer plenty of opportunity to check it out / test ride at the time of sale.
All personal sales in the UK use the principle of caveat emptor which roughly means buyer beware, the onis is on the buyer to be happy and check items out before they agree to a sale and exchange payment. Once payment is made it’s their item and their responsibility. While you may possibly feel sorry for them you have no need to be as long as you didn’t knowingly conceal any problems in order to sell the bike.
It’s a freak accident on a 10+ year old bike. A shop may have identified an issue before it was sold but unlikely.
I’m sorry you are caught up in this. There is an element of risk the buyer is taking when buying a used bike and this is the gamble they take to save a few bux.
Imo you have no obligation to the buyer for this. Private party sales shouldn’t come with any implied warranty. Unless it’s something that you concealed or showed negligence in not disclosing, and even then it’s sort of buyer beware.
I haven’t bought second hand but I personally would be checking over the bike in detail after I buy it before riding it more than around the block. Seems like this guy failed to notice the crank was loose and kept riding until it fell off. Meaning he caused the damage, not you. Sucks for him but you have no obligation to cover this for him at all. I would tell him as much and cut communication. It’s a problem he caused well after he took possession of the bike.
Doesn’t sound legit. If the crank had been loose you would have felt it / heard it when you test road it. With that splined BB the bolts on the crank arm and the crank bolt would all have to be loose for it to happen. Highly improbable.
It’s been a while since I worked as a bike mechanic but £200 is a piss take.
I have a 2009 Giant defy much like this one. Same crank too. In fact, the same thing happened where the crank arm fell off. The pinch bolts were tightened to proper spec. After a while, it got so worn down that it no longer was clamping onto the spindle and fell off mid ride a few times. I even tightened the pinch bolts to the furthest it’ll go and it still fell off. It’s just worn out. I was still learning about bike repairs at the time and ended up buying a whole new group set.
This is nonsense. The retaining cap holds the crank in place. Even if it loosened SOMEHOW, the crank wouldn’t come off. Even if it did, none of the parts involved would be damaged unless you had ridden it with a loose crank arm for a solid amount of kms. Tell him to reattach it and stop wasting your time with bullshit quotes from shoddy bike shops.
You’re being scammed. Picture 2 shows no stickers/decals on the crank arm, but their picture (#6) is showing stickers/decals.
Secondly, clear damage on back of the crank of someone forcing it off with the wrong tools.
Thirdly, worst case if it needed a new crank set, bottom bracket, and labour, not a chance would it be £200, maybe £150. Given you can buy left arm crank arms on their own, and a bottom bracket separately, labour to fit being 20-30 minutes, I would expect change from £60 tops.
You sold it privately, you sold it working, the buyer was happy and neither of you noticed this supposed issue. Sold as seen. You could as a gesture reply to them stating there was no issues when sold and they were happy to buy after a test. Or just ignore them. I would do the latter.
In photo #2 there is no logo on the crankarm, but photo #6 there is a logo.
Also, photo #2, kinda blurry, but it looks like the frame sticker displays “M” for medium size, but photo #3 that same sticker appears to display “XL”.
IMO the photos are from at least two different bikes.
You are fine, you said you did a short test ride and it was fine. Even the slightest play in the crankset/pedal will be noticeable. What I’m guessing is they didn’t know how to remove a crank, saw 2 bolts and the compression cap(?), is them and tried to remove it without lifting the clip.
So, basically the buyer fucked around and found out.