With the Six Nations underway, it’s time to talk rugby. Benjamin Kayser won 47 caps for France, playing club rugby in both The Premiership and Top 14 for the likes of Leicester Tigers and Clermont. Since hanging up his boots, he has become a regular on our screens as a commentator and pundit with ITV. Not afraid to say it how it is, and with an undying passion for the game, there was no one better to sit down with on the eve of the tournament to look at the overall health of the sport.
We have had a number of amazing rugby chats on the show, and each one has brought a different perspective and assessment of where the game is strong and where improvements are needed. From a French perspective, the domestic game is in good stead, with media revenues triple that of the Premiership and the financial flexibility to sign the biggest players.
But as we discuss on the show, is it too simple or even accurate to blame the salary cap in the Premiership for an inability to match the commercial performance and quality of the French league? By extension, why has it been so important for both domestic leagues and international federations to turn to Private Equity cash?
This is unfiltered rugby chat from a former player who knows what needs to happen to bring this sport to a global audience.
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Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro
(01:51) Differences Playing Between Premiership and Top 14 Rugby
(05:05) Transfer Process in Rugby
(07:21) Has Top 14 Rugby Overtaken the Premiership?
(10:33) Why Did the Focus Shift Away from Club Rugby in the UK?
(14:11) Private Equity’s Growing Role in Rugby
(16:45) Why Do Rugby Players Struggle to Build Their Brand?
(20:19) Salary Caps & the Competitive Balance
(24:12) Should Moving Abroad Affect a Player’s National Team Chances?
(26:06) Match Fees in International Rugby & Their Impact on Players
(29:23) Private Equity in National Rugby: Risks and Rewards
(31:50) Rugby’s Use of Media
(37:09) Tapping into Rugby’s Audience & the Attention Economy
(41:54) Six Nations Commentary
(43:45) Planning for Life in Post-Playing Career
(50:20) Does Media Keep Athletes Relevant After Retirement?
(52:11) Working as a Pundit
(54:35) Quick-Fire Round
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On today’s show we discuss:
Premiership vs Top 14:
Having played in both, what is the major difference between the two leagues and has it changed since Benjamin was playing?
We know a lot about transfer processes in football, but what happens when a rugby player moves clubs?
The financial difference between playing in France and England.
Why has Top 14 broken away from the Premiership in quality and commercial performance? Has France got its domestic model right?
What has attracted billionaires to invest in the French leagues in ways we haven’t seen in England?
The importance of multi-purpose stadia to drive revenue not reliant on rugby.
Rugby Players as Cultural Icons:
Why have rugby players found it hard to build a ‘superstar’ profile that is needed to drive eyeballs in a sporting environment driven by individuals?
Can you be a team player and build your own personal brand?
Is it the responsibility of the player or the club/federation to elevate the ‘status’ of their talent?
Has rugby leveraged media opportunities provided by OTT platforms well enough to compete with Drive to Survive or All or Nothing?
The rise of Ilona Maher and the need for a player in the men’s game to deliver a level of engagement beyond their work on the field.
The Health of International Rugby:
International rugby is capable of attracting hundreds of millions of viewers, but how do you transform one time watchers into regular fans?
How relationships with club rugby organisations can influence the success of international teams.
Should players be eligible for selection if they do not play in their domestic leagues?
What are the economics of international rugby? How much are match fees and who gets paid the most?
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20 Comments
Finally, someone speaking some sense. It's not about the rules or anything, but outreach and getting kids involved. If you don't invest in your future, you don't have one.
22:25 – "Are we that stupid that we can't govern our businesses without a regulator". In a nutshell – Yes, we are that stupid. Look at the disgraceful demise of London Welsh and the shocking loss of that legendary club to a bunch of sports speculators.
Why does the idiot in the shorts need to use stupid language?
France aren't exactly running away with Grand Slams and World Cups lol… I'm not sure we should be taking advice from them!
52:55 he's talking about Sir Clive Woodward
England are done,they should b in the mix for no 1,but poorly coached, coaching tactics from the dark ages,go figure!Such a great shame,they have so many world class players!I WANT them back in no 1 or 2 in the world, come on England….'Swing low,I say swing high……to the highest highs'🙏🙏🙏👍💪💪💪🤝🇬🇧🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦
Always enjoyed Benjamin's inputs. Also massive props to him for his English skills, its amazing. If only I could speak French half as good!
Oh not you too Benjamin…
100%
People need to stop calling for a relegation playoff (as 6 Nations will never agree to it) and instead call for 6 Nations Expansion. 8 Nations in 2 pools of 4 with a semi final and final each year would be fantastic
We need to go 8 nations, with 2 groups of 4, semi finals, finals and a loser bracket. With a relegation game for the last one against the winner of the division 2 championship. That's the same number of week of competitions as we have now.
And if home nations can't handle relegation we can have a "coward clause" saying they can't be relegated the next 50 years.
As a French speaker, I love how Benjamin's English sounds native on some words but is tinted by a French accent on others. Loving it ! Allez les Bleus !
Top bloke! Talks a lot of sense.
I didn't know thibaut flament had a podcast.
American football (soccer) did grow to what it is (pre-Messi) on the back of the 1994 World Cup. FIFA required the US to have/create a league to have their World Cup bid accepted (plus the millions in bribes I am sure). Should the Rugby World Cup be in America? Let Major League Rugby grow a bit more…Rugby is still very niche in the US. I like watching England rugby but dont go to watch the Houston Sabrecats. I do hope rugby grows more in the US and yes, I know supporting my local team would be the first step.
The french club system is SOOOO SUCCESSFUL they consistently loose against New Zealand and South Africa. Club rugby in France is more important than the National team. The french clubs are riddled with Foreign Internationals it certainly doesn't help with Grassroots at all!!!
Having been involved with senior & then grass roots club I have seen RFU abandon them whilst demanding payments for membership, giving such little back & abandoning them too when in difficulties.
Nice to hear some forward thinking 😁
Once a Tiger , always a Tiger, Welford road is a special place to play !!!
last 3 clubs didnt go bust through the salary cap, Wasps and Worcester went bust as they were owned and run by cowboys who couldnt run a bath, Irish folded as the owner gave up and got fed up of supporting a failing business as they didnt have the following and no one wanted to buy it off him.