We’ve seen situations similar to this before with cyclists, refusing to go back to single file.
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43 Comments
I can understand comments about shielding nervous horses/riders. But if this is the case should they be riding on what looks like a busy but twisty road? I am sure there are many other safer places to go. Serious accidents can involve horses on roads. I would suggest riders should be licensed to ride on public roads. In addition they should wear some sort of registration plate that is clearly readable by other road users in case inconsiderate behaviour like what is shown in this video can be reported to the police.
Only after the junction on the right.
Yes driver should have overtaken but at a much much slower pace – just slightly faster than the horses. This might also have prompted the outside rider to move over
The outside horse rider is protecting either new riders or young horses. The fact the outside rider is happy with oncoming vehicles is irrelevant as horses have blinkers on that enable them to see the road and cars ahead, but can still get spooked by cars from the blind area behind them.
So sorry, disagree with you here, the car should have stayed behind until the riders signalled or they got to a wider stretch of road.
I find most horse riders extremely friendly and are observant and communicate well.
As a horse rider and driver, that was poor on the side of the rider; I would ALWAYS signal to drivers whether I wanted them to hold back or overtake – sometimes when a horse has been playing up you just want the drivers to hold back, and sometimes a few more yards before we turn off is worth asking drivers to be patient. Maybe the horse on the inside was being "protected" by the one on the outside, in which case hand signals are invaluable to offer directions. Not all drivers choose to follow those directions! However, I think the driver did very well in all aspects; holding back, passing slowly – they can't be expected to stay back forever.
I would go, and as gently as this driver did. As you say, if it was a nervous horse it should not be blocking the road. Driver/rider.
I think the rider on the grey horse is fine with the space they left for an overtake, as you point out Ashley; they seemed happy enough even with a bus coming past in the opposite direction.
Re the question “should they have moved back to riding in single file?” there may be a reason why they remain doubled up, for example if the horse they’re next to (the one on the inside) isn’t good with traffic and they’re helping to prevent it from moving out into the road. This is how young horses learn to deal with traffic.
As for the lack of signals from the riders: would you expect a moped rider to signal for you to pass? Or if you’re driving a lorry on a motorway, would you react to a car driver flashing their lights to show you when you’ve passed them? No. It’s safer to make the judgement yourself, and it’s safer if the road user who is being overtaken remains predictable, no signals needed.
Horse riders should be in fields but
most don't have land and after all
its just a hobby, without insurance
or anything else. I dont think hard
hats or helmets are compulsory
either. Is this a right wing thing.
Your viewer made the safest overtake possible in those conditions. The horse didn’t seem at all worried by ongoing traffic passing close by and its rider didn’t give a monkey’s.
More to the point do they have insurance in case the horse damages a vehicle on the road?
If that horse rider were driving a vehicle at a similar speed, they could get points and a fine for not showing sufficient consideration for other Road users. I think the recent changes of the Highway Code have not served to make the roads safer, it has lead cyclist and other similar Road users to believe in an extra layer of false security. A small number of cyclists have seemingly become more aggressive towards motorists since the rule change. At the end, we all want safer roads, despite the continuing growth in volume of traffic. I would like to see even more courtesy shown between users and more patience. I think the motorist did the right and only thing in that situation.
Even with the horse's tail down I still see an ahole.
If it was a horse in training then why not put an L plate on it so drivers know?
Perfect overtake
There's an extra element with horses. If I'm overtaking a cyclist, once I've pulled out, I'll put my foot down to get past as quickly as possible for safety reasons. With a manual gearbox, I'd also drop down to get the acceleration and in an automatic, that would be done for me, but either way the revs go up. With horses, you can't do that because the revving might easily frightening the horse into either bolting or rearing.
I thing houses on the road side, posable new riding on the road like you, are in the training? and have a more experienced house and rider a long side, some support, and steady news horse to road riding!, by the pavement? there horse just give as much space as they need? the hole road if thats whats needed? spooking horse is no fun, fro or the rider?
The problem is there are too many if's, and's or but''s. As a rider and driver I would suspect the horse on the inside is inexperienced or young. The rider on the outside should have been aware of the traffic behind and either had all three pull in somewhere safe or given hand signals for the car behind to overtake, The problem is, a lot of riders will not know highway hand signals and neither will a lot of drivers!
We all have to share the roads so it would be great if everyone learned to be a little bit more patient. There are good and bad riders of horses, cyclists and car drivers. I have always found bikers to be the most tolerant and sensible.
Best bet is to slow down and wait as the driver did and overtake slowly. The whole give x meters is nigh on impossible, especially where you are more likely to encounter horses on narrow lanes.
The inside horse rider might not be an experienced rider or the horse less happy in traffic so the outer rider may be providing protection.
2 metres so what
I assume the outside rider was experienced and confident in their horse but not confident of the inner riders (either the horses of the riders) and thats why they didnt move over but they didnt look behind or seem to consider other road users at all. Rightly or wrongly I would have overtaken very slowly like the driver in the vid
Yeah very very slowly
Sheer bloody mindedness' on the part of the 'offside' rider! Wouldn't take but 30 seconds for them to single file, allow a safe pass and avoid restricting traffic – this is what turns drivers against horses and cyclists!
My car and motorbike need an mot to be on the road and I need licences to show i can handle both correctly. A horse and rider should have to go through a similar test to make sure they can cope with the stress of being on the roads as well.
I always give extra time and space for horses especially on the motorbike. But there are some horses that shouldn't be anywhere near a road.
Also… horse crap all over the road could potentially cause me to loose my life if I am on the bike, why shouldn't they have to scoop it up and move it off the road once they've splattered it everywhere?
I know this road very well. We pass these horses all the time and they appreciate careful drivers. There was actually a horse killed on this stretch of road.
Those who pointed out the horse on the inside was easily spooked are correct and the riders were reassuring the horse (not chatting) as the car passed. If you had a rear view you would have seen them wave a thank you. They really do appreciate those who drive past slowly.
Oh, and yes, they definitely should have gone past at the clear stretch of road, horses dont like it when there are vehicles behind them.
Isn’t it obvious any Road user should exercise caution (as was seen in this video) and wait until the road was clear to overtake? Here the driver had to wait a couple of minutes before being able to proceed safely. Not much of a problem given most people wait longer at a set of traffic lights without feeling the need to pull their hair out.
For anyone who thinks they shouldn’t have to wait before overtaking, be aware if you overtake a horse or cyclist unsafely and cause an accident where the rider sustains a broken limb or worse, you are liable to be charged with a relatively new law “Causing Serious Injury Through Careless Driving” which carries a maximum 2 year prison sentence – in short don’t risk it.
No one road user has more right to use the road than the other so why can’t people help each other out ?
I ride horses and the outside rider was being ignorant and entitled.
Yes. The front outside rider should have pulled in so they were in single file.
Calm driver waited for his moment to overtake. Horse riders obviously felt safe and some times it easier to over take like this rather than them in single file stretched out over longer distance.
Totally understand safety passing horses but the vast majority are entitled helmets.
They go out looking for an argument.
Exactly what I'd have done. Can't see a problem really. It was the riders choice to be closer than 2 metres.
It was the drivers only option unless following for an unknown distance at crawl speed. Complete lack of awareness by riders. On another note I have seen an increase in the number of riders using mobile phones whilst using slack reins , oblivious of surroundings. As has proved recently in London, even well trained horses can be spooked.
I asked my wife about this as she's an experienced horse rider. She watched the video and made the following comments:
1. She was shocked at the lack of communication between the riders and the other road users. At very least, the riders should have been acknowledging the other drivers, including the oncoming traffic, to thank them for being considerate and slowing down.
2. The rider on the outside should have been checking for vehicles coming from behind, and should certainly have come in to single-file when the vehicle approached from behind.
3. She understood that the rider on the outside may have been a more experienced rider and so the "lead" and was attempting to shield the others by remaining on the outside, but this didn't negate the need for all riders to be taking more time to look around for traffic approaching from behind.
4. Given 3 above, if the other riders or their horses were less experienced, the lead could have stopped the entire group at an appropriate point to allow traffic from behind to pass safely.
5. Although the "lead" (outside rider) may have been comfortable with the traffic passing close by for on-coming traffic, that rider should have been mindful of the fact that their horse wouldn't be able to see traffic passing coming from behind and so there's a greater chance of the horse getting spooked.
6. If she had been in the viewer's position, she would have approached it in exactly the same way i.e. wait for the clear stretch and then overtake cautiously so as not to spook the horses.
Her view is that while drivers need to take care when passing horses/riders, and the Highway Code explains that drivers have that responsibility, there's an equal responsibility on riders to be courteous to drivers. She says there's no point in making a difficult situation worse.
My own view is much the same; I think the riders should have been taking time to check behind, acknowledge other drivers/road users, and tried to be helpful in aiding that traffic pass safely. I would also have approached the situation much as your viewer did and passed carefully when the opportunity presented itself, but mindful that you need to be more cautious around animals such as horses (bicycles don't get 'spooked' by traffic).
I keep saying this about cyclists… If motorists are supposed to ensure there's a gap of at least 1.5m before passing, surely the same SHOULD apply to cyclists?
Surely no cyclist should ever pass a vehicle where there's a gap of less that 1.5m.
Or, are we saying that cyclists can just ride as close to cars as they want and it's up to drivers to magically move themselves at least 1.5m away from the bicycle as it passes?
Hoss riders should clear their shit up too
As an avid cyclist (and car owner) in the UK here are my thoughts.
I consciously always prioritise safety, by allowing traffic to pass, often signaling to pull into side roads (if safe) in busier areas of my rides.
No matter if I'm tracking my ride or how much I'm enjoying it, my focus has to be on allowing traffic to move past me without creating road rage because ultimately that person probably won't hit me but that can easily create a situation down the road (I've seen this happen firsthand). Of course, I am not responsible for someone else's road rage but at the same time, courtesy goes a long way.
I'm not saying any of this in some grand display of virtue, it's a bit more simple and selfish then that. Simply put, as more vulnerable road users we really do rely on the goodwill of fellow road users for safety, theirs and ours.
Sadly, however, I've noticed entitlement amongst some horse riders far too often, which doesn't help anything or anyone. I've had incidents where horses were spooked by cars (because of scenes just like this, where riders refuse to move over on a straight section of road) many times and on one of those occasions, the horse ran right into me, knocking me off and sending me to the hospital, despite this, I have no ill will toward horses or riders, most riders are lovely people but as with club cyclists, just because we 'have the right' to ride two aside, doesn't mean we should do so all the time.
My point is that both groups (cyclists and riders), are a minority group on the roads. There are constant calls to restrict access rights for both Horses and Bikes, thankfully most of this is mainly cranks of Facebook but I do try and avoid provoking people, not out of fear of any bans but out of not wanting to be be part of the problem, there 100% are knob cyclists and knob drivers.
The driver perhaps got a little close behind before overtaking, but otherwise didn't do anything wrong. The rider might have been better advised to move into single file, but there are legitimate reasons that they might not have done. It's just a case of remembering that not all road users travel at the same speed, and that speed limits are a maximum, not an entitlement.
I spent the past two years living out in the sticks. Lots of horses on the road. I have the feeling that the riders on the offside and rear of the three were riding in a protective position. With either the horse and/or rider needing the extra support. I personally would have thought long and hard about passing. A hoof through a window is not an experience I would want to have. My experience is that they would not have been going far along the road and on balance 5 minutes vs having to deal with the inconvenience of a horse striking my vehicle is not worth it.
Of course they were correct to overtake with care. Else they would have never done so.
Distance to oncoming isnt a concern, riding, cycling or walking unless you are getting forced over. But with this one there could be other concerns. Such as the inside horses not being used to traffic. But if this was the case then there should have been communication from the outside rider as the person in control of the situation.
A very similar situation to this happen to me last month, I was driving my mum into town and there was a very long queue of slow moving cars in front of us and I noticed that at the front of the queue was a group of army
horses and their riders, they must have known that there was a long line of traffic behind them but they made no effort whatsoever to pull over to the side of the road.
If you can’t give a cyclist the minimum required distance of 1.5m with speeds of up to 30mph and if you can’t give horses the minimum required distance of 2m and if you can’t give pedestrians the minimum required distance of at least 2m there’s no problem at all with still overtaking them, you just have to pass them even slower so you need to make sure there’s no oncoming vehicles and you need to make sure there’s a sufficient gap in front of the horse/cyclist/pedestrian you’re overtaking, however, it says in the Highway Code that you should wait behind the motorcyclist, cyclist, horse rider, horse drawn vehicle or pedestrian and not overtake if it is unsafe or not possible to meet these clearances.