On the way home from Southport, I do my first proper overtake, I encounter a country road with loads of mud I have to negotiate and I force myself into a few filtering situations.
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46 Comments
Morning all. Looking forward to this 42 min video. Although I'm not a motorcyclist, I still find these videos very useful. For one thing, I learn about situations from a motorcyclists point of view, which hopefully gives me a better understanding as a car driver. Additionally many of the principles that Ashley demonstrates on two wheels also apply on four wheels. Plus it's interesting viewing in general.
Anyhow, wishing everyone a pleasant & safe weekend.
Always intrigues me that Southport is in the North of the UK!
Have you been on / considered an advanced riding or bike safe course to see what they’re teaching, and how that relates to how you teach?
Good to see the cyclist at 12:17 letting you decide when to pass rather than waving you through.
Seen a mild increase of cyclists waving drivers passed on a bend and the drivers accepting the offer instead of looking at the risk and deciding themselves
At around 2:15, looking for a "blocker" whilst waiting to emerge onto a roundabout is a very useful technique. Part of utilizing this is to take a "blocker" opportunity swiftly once you identity it. In a manual car, having the handbrake on and right foot poised hovering over the accelerator ready to take up such an opportunity quickly will certainly help. It's then a matter of releasing the hand brake in sync with applying acceleration to emerge swiftly. Of course, this will vary on two wheels.
Small observation, is going through the menus to change engine mode ideal when risk is higher such as at around 18:22? I thought it might have been better to wait until beyond the junction with vehicles exiting
Just thinking cognitive load will be higher as you are thinking of where in the menu structure the setting is which could delay reactions slightly. It is the same when I drive, even though the mini computer cycles through displaying different information with the flick of a button, I wait until cognitive load is at a minimum to check
As I say, just an observation and camera angles could make things appear more risky than they were 👍
Those posts next to the road from 5:00 on look like they'd cause a lot of harm to any biker sliding along the tarmac. I can see why they're there, but still. Road furniture can be a major cause of unpleasantness where two-wheelers are off their mounts. I've had a couple of mates mashed up by Armco supports, thankfully, recoverable.
On the overtake, didn’t really need to check your shoulder when coming back into the lane. Your vision was forward, you have just passed the vehicle and can see that there was nothing in front. And keeping your vision forward when you’re on the wrong side of the road is safer
The guidance for lane positioning is "Safety, Stability & View" in that order.
I think your positioning is very good. Position 1 is still an option, with a reduced speed if you really didn't like going with the other two.
At around 6:25, exactly the same with me in my car re: I look at my GPS app speed and not my car speedo. Well, I do occasionally look at both in order to compare but that's about it. And yes, you are right, we can't help being ever so slightly over a limit on occasion and we are not robots. The flip side of this is it nicely backs up the saying "There is no such thing as a perfect driver".
So, when mildly confused about the exit for a car park, as a professional car driver, you consider mounting the kerb when on a bike? Granted, you ruled it out, but the thought has never crossed my mind over the last few decades of riding – and I ride both on and off road, my bike is more than capable of it too.
The overtake, was pretty spot on.
"Shouldn't be in 3 with oncoming, but problem with 2 due to debris" – I'm sorry, no. Position 2 doesn't have anywhere near as much debris as was once taught. Sure, you get the odd diesel spill, bit of slippery grime etc, but the wind caused by passing vehicles moves all the smaller stones/nails etc to the outer extremities of the lane. The scan down the road should pick up most of that. Position 2 was perfectly fine for that section of near straight road with oncoming. The lesser of two evils, is position for safety above all else. If you have oncoming AND debris in 2, or if the oncoming is a lorry, position 1. There was no debris in all your position 2 riding, a dirty coloured bit of tarmac isn't worth worrying about.
The left signal for the caravan looks a little late (it appears you pressed the button just after passing the trees on the right) – we should signal for what we can reasonably assume to happen. Could have been a caravan, could have been a truck, both would have benefitted by an earlier signal and you wouldn't be signalling and turning at the same time = more relaxed.
This of course, ignores that you chose to continue riding – seemingly – with deflated tyres (as was discussed on the previous video). Unless, of course, you fixed that issue in the car park.
Re the cyclist while you were talking about the horse, advanced tutors recommend a slight "toot" of the horn to let them know you're coming, and then a wave of the left hand as a respectful "thanks" (similar to people holding back at a junction – in that case, a "thanks for not trying to kill me"). Had there been a horse coming opposite (since you talked about them being kept nearby), I would have stopped the bike and turned the engine off on that road – letting the horse rider continue comfortably knowing I wasn't going to spook the horse.
Why isn't position 3 good with oncoming? 14:30 (you weren't in 3, but that car makes the point perfectly).
Speed: the thing is Ash, I've been told (reliably) that people have had to attend speed awareness courses for being 1 mph above a limit, so it does matter mate, you just can't afford to take that chance that some van or other is out with a radar gun that isn't using the 10% plus 2mph rule. Since my change of car I'm so paranoid now and that's not a bad thing to keep me alert. Great video Ash 👍🏻😄 I do wish I could ride a bike to appreciate what it's like and how they get treated, however I still have a streak in me that would be an idiot so I'll stick to a big chunk of metal around me, thanks.
At around 9:18 re warning triangles where there has been a fatal or serious collision. I know you've mentioned that before Ash but are these measures also ever put in place where such events haven't happened?
I am surprised that you don't use position 2 more frequently . However, you appear to be in it often on this run. I don't find much of a problem with what you call debris on the sump position nor oil or diesel or anything else for that matter and I drive an drive all roads in the North West.
Yes there are times when its visible but that applies to all of the road anyway. We change position with regards to potential dangers and its more dangerous to stay in position 3 whilst being passed b traffic travelling the other way at a combined speed of some say 80 plus mph. OK in a car but not ok on a bike with our increased vulnerabilities. If in position 2 and there is debris and passing other vehicle coming the other way there is always position 1 to ride in and that takes one well away from oncoming dangers be they cars or debris.
Position 2 is not one that car drivers concern themselves with as its the sump line so they would rarely use it. Because of that simple fact that it is far less used than position 1 and 3 car tyre lanes there is an abundance of useful aggregate still left to give more grip with and its also dryer when both positions 1 and 3 are still damp with rain. Positions 1 and 3 always look well worn and shinny when wet. That gives you a clue. They are also filled with tyre debris from car tyres thus they appear slippy and can have less grip than position 2 the sump position which remains dryer and when wet, is first to dry due to hot engines of cars drying it out. So in balance , in the event of heavy braking I would prefer to be in position 2 rather than 1 and 3.
Try not to pay to much attention to gripping the tank with your knees
It’s like gripping your steering wheel hard thinking you have more control
At slow speed just relax and breathe and the bike will go wherever you look in that direction trust me
Nice ride, and, as expected, a great attitude about your bike skills. Good use of the horn, but you need to replace that standard horn with a Soundbomb. 😉 Watch those muddy roads; it doesn't take much to lose grip.
At around 10:38, if that house had a white picket fence, it could almost be like Southfork ranch that featured in the tv series Dallas. Admittedly this would be a scaled down version.
At around 14:43 re "My hatred of cyclists comes from my Ma". You were joking of course but just wondering if your Twitter account is going to be busy for a while!
At around 17:45, the beep followed by the Thank You. Good technique, since many drivers react badly to a well intenioned "I am here" beep.
I love how you love driving as much as I do and like you I pride myself in how well I drive.
At around 18:22, I didn't realize that just as with cars, some motorbikes also have menus to go through various settings. I've learned something new.
Interesting on the filtering, always appreciated that filtering was appropriate on a road with multiple lanes going in the same direction, otherwise, like between two single lanes in opposing directions, its overtaking even in city centre slow moving traffic
I find your life savers strange.
Straight road, not turning you check your left shoulder.
Straight road, turning left at the end, no shoulder check.
Curious to ask: Do motorbikes have an audible alert when signalling? I'm part way through this video and as yet never heard any signal sound. Also…and I hope this isn't a daft question…but do motorbike signals ever self cancel or do you always have to cancel manually?
What bike is that Ash? GS?
Overtake was ok. When you move out to check make sure you’re not accelerating slightly because if it’s not on you need to pull back to where you were. As a rule, if you can get it done before half way (to oncoming car) then it’s on. Do an advanced course, you’ll learn so much and not develop bad habits in the mean time.
Overtake good pulled out to get a better view then once you knew clear . Got on with it
On the roundabout, you need to recognise earlier that a straight line is on and commit early.
With your question about position 3 and debris. Always give up position for safety. So, if position 3 is too close to traffic and position 2 causes issues with debris – use position 1 and slow down.
Position first for safety and then for stability and then for view – if you have to give up position for safety, you just slow down.
You know this, Ashley, you're just overthinking it.
The overtake was textbook, but the shoulder check to return to your lane was unnecessary.
Never take a position over safety, position 3 as often as possible but when oncoming cars are passing back to position 2 then back to 3 when safe to do so.
I’d be dubious about braking to let pedestrians cross. Mirrors mirrors mirrors.
You anticipated the change at the lights but filtered anyway. Could’ve ended up much worse.
Just a tip, when filtering, it's not always best to remain with a car on your immediate left and right, safety bubble. Pulling slightly ahead, if there is a gap is safer.
Great video, mate I love riding but only in reasonable conditions,at 77 years old I have to be picky
That passat had already carried out a nasty, aggressive overtake in the middle of a junction @32:53.
In ROSPA its about managing risk. Information, Position, Speed, Gear, Acceleration. IPSGA
You can only choose a position based on the information you have.
would be good to see you do a collaboration video with @motorcyclepwr as this will be very good.
With Motorcycles is always good to take constructive criticism from other bikers as no matter what level of experience we can always improve. This constant improvement is what keeps us safe on the road. We cant control what others do but we can adapt our driving to keep making safe progress.
That bike you have is perfect for a bit of green lane-ing .. Assuming you dont mind cleaning it
Apologies for hijacking this video but please can everyone be careful out there and look out for each other
I have just driven passed a collision with a rider and a car. It wasn’t exactly difficult to see the rider as they are out in a charity bike ride complete with tinsel and matching Christmas outfit
What is an extra second to look? What is an extra 30 seconds before turning?
Comments on the filtering, if you are going to filter to the front you actually need to move to the front and take primary, instead you are just pulling alongside the cars at the front and you end up with other drivers unsure what you plan to do. This might be what triggered the Passet, he thought you would be off once the lights changed and he would no longer need to deal with you as shown by the fact he actually moved out of your way further up.
10:47 Southport Old Road is actually a National speed road; which as a regular cyclist on this road, can be a little uncomfortable with people speeding past……
this years bikesafe course suggested sacrificing position for hazards, so avoid serious surface defects/debis by changing from what would be theoptimum postion (or thats how I heard it)
From the the start enjoyed the video this is not a criticism in anyway shape or form. You answered your own question on road position in protecting your safety bubble with regard to approaching cars “the lesser of two evils”, or is it, what if you had an articulated lorry approaching you and you felt poisition two was possibly compromised with intermittent debris ask yourself where would you ride?
So if position one is ok with respect to an oncoming lorry why not a car, just when in position one regulate your speed so that you can stop in the distance you can see to be clear on your side of the road When approaching bends.
As for riding in sport mode I Do it most of the summer, certainly not in winter just bare in mind with the increase in acceleration comes a significant decrease in traction control, in Road or Rain mode when your front wheel spins out of kilter in the mud within a millisecond your CPU is going to intervene and slow the wheel to match that of the rear (possibly) helping to regain the lost grip, in Sport mode the CPU intervention is going to be considerably less to not existent just something to be aware of as you kept mentioning there was mud on the road, horses for courses as they say and experience.
What does a red and amber light mean?
There is no correct position to ride in. It is a matter of balancing hazards and along the road where you mentioned that you moved from position 3 because of oncoming traffic but were concerned at the debris in position 2 you would have been better off nearer to position 1. There was a row of bollards, a grass verge then the cycle track on the near side which present less of a potential hazard than the oncoming traffic so I would be perfectly happy to ride in position 1 until circumstances such as a vehicle at a junction on the left dictate that I readjust the balance by moving out.
During my first months of motorcycling (40 years ago) I was stopped by a policeman on a motorcycle who explained how I could take corners more safely and quicker. He told me to follow his lines. As well as a few bends we did about five overtakes in the short time I was in his company.
Great vid, I'm currently on a 125 with L plates so I always filter behind the first cars at the lights as there's a high chance they'll be able to beat me off the line. I look forward to getting my A2 so that I can go straight to the front!