Trying To Predict Future ‘Collector Cars’? [S6, E68]

This week Tony and I discuss:
0:00 – Intro
0:22 – Shifting Car Markets & Investment Cars
10:29 – Tony was right about sharks!
13:07 – The Portugal tour is sold out.
15:33 – The new Range Rover Sport P635 SV First Edition…
33:45 – Stock Watch!
45:41 – Is the Ferrari 296 a future classic?
49:07 – The Geneva Motorshow 2024
52:53 – Ineos launch their first EV!
56:19 – Outro

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https://www.gravelwood.co.uk/

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hello one and all and welcome to behind the glass your weekly Automotive podcast hosted by two rather uninformed enthusiasts no no I’m Sam from the YouTube channel scene to Glass I’m Tony from grawood car house and you can watch us each week we hope you enjoy the episode do you do you ever remember the the the you’re a bit younger than me do you remember the paper for auto trader magazine uh do you remember going to the shop and buying no no I didn’t do that I because magazines I really only ever bought F1 racing don’t forget the car thing came late to me I was all Motor Sport fair so I I wasn’t sitting at home flicking through car magazin I I’d watch Top Gear I wouldn’t buy the magazine man I can’t read no I can read better than you I don’t read I don’t read I the glossy pictures apart from the F1 racing mag so yeah so long story short no but that was your Bible was it oh mate like like literally I’d go down there every Thursday people would be reminiscing this and thinking flipping I always do the same thing and you’d buy the auto trader book and I even remember when I first become a motor dealer uh oh no it’s was before actually before I just become a motor dealer but I was still working in the motor trade and the auto trader man used to go around to the dealers and take photos of the cars and and then he’d go back and un upload the photog there must been mul photo photo multiple photographers one for the whole country it can’t be one it that’s what you Father Christmas yeah yeah literally cuz you like the the Traer man would come around I was like there must have been mul millions of them yeah there’s millions of them and and then they created this book obviously it used to be published and what reminded me of it I saw a clip on uh I think it was Instagram and showing all the old cars and that and like old shacos and Rena and all the old cars at like 5995 and all that and well sometimes you get people they’ll share old ads of Ferrari F40 140 Grand you know like carera GT 200 Grand and going wow how times have changed but that was a lot of money back then by the way yeah it was a lot of money but also don’t forget it was prior to a time where things did dis depreciate like you know that’s the other thing which we forget it things did just absolutely tank and it’s you know late ’90s early u0s there wasn’t the same collector Market that there is today I don’t think you know it was for pre-war stuff you know the 60 stuff was doing okay but you know I remember clearly when I left my PR job and set up my PR consultancy which was a disaster um that go I awful I was looking at buying a 993 911 and they were 15 to 20 grand yeah 15 to 20 grand you would struggle to get a 993 for less than 75 today a decent one and there were like plenty to choose from for 15 to 20 grand there’s there’s so many um examples of it you know and the reasons for that is one one demand a lot of people my age maybe a little bit older they’re they were all poster cars and they’ve earned some money and they’ve gone back and bought them you know and I saw a story the other day of a a a guy who’ bought his dream can’t remember what car it was now but it was a car of my era and he worked his whole life for for this car because it’ I mean fair play man when you when you’re doing that that’s what it’s all about it’s what it’s all about it’s what it’s all about but yeah as you say that the collector market usually moves with the generations so you know that the interest and the appetite for pre-war cars is now really reducing because uh most people who are in a position to be collecting cars or buying cars don’t have any real world experience of pre- cars you know apart from maybe via their father or their grandfather so that’s why you’re seeing this big up Spike especially in the in the Japanese Market you know some of the stuff I was looking at the auction which auction was it some of the auctions coming up just full of Japanese cars American Market as well of course the Americans can now import them um but but at the same time even just here in Europe the market is flying you know for for for the Japanese stuff so and that’s because grew up or my generation grew up your generation grew up Gran Turismo and Need for Speed and these were the cars on the front covers so yeah for sure that’s what people want to go out and buy it’s amazing how it how how it changes and and don’t forget as well that that cars are a huge tax break for an investment point of view oh yeah it’s an asset class it’s an invest yeah yeah so there’s no there’s no tax on it so um that’s why that’s also why prices have gone the the way they’ve gone because the the real the the the the big money have all come in some of them don’t even know anything about cars well that’s the I would say that there’s two they’re two different um customer bases or two different collector bases you have the Enthusiast and you have literally just the the asset collector uh and obviously as cars have become an investable asset class and and really have given the returns that they have you’ve got people coming in purely from a money-making scheme they buy delivery mileage cars they stick them away they don’t really know anything about the car apart from they sold the key information the key stats they’re sitting on it for 10 or 15 years and then they’re flipping it you have a hybrid of the two I think Savvy enthusiasts who are looking at cars that they can buy that they want to enjoy that they understand the the reasoning behind with the aim to make money off and then you have just pure enthusiasts who end up buying the right thing at the right time and ride the wave um so yeah it’s fascinating to see in my world I meet really a mixture of all of them you know when I get to go and meet the these different collectors or or owners I get invited to drive things or go to different shows and uh I I cannot knock the pure asset class investor because we’re all trying to make money like we you’re kidding yourself if you like we’re all trying to make money and if somebody came up to you and said look buy this thing and in 5 years time it’s either going to be worth double the money or at least you know 30 40% 30% yeah yeah you’d go hell yeah yeah um it just happens to be that we love the things these people are buying and we get upset that they’re not being used or driven or enjoyed but you can’t knock it so I’m never there to it’s up to them what they do with their money on they if you don’t want to drive it don’t drive it a delivery mileage car is a delivery mileage car like I get it at that point what else are you going to do with it you know an Enthusiast I’d love the idea of an Enthusiast going out buying a delivery mileage MC F1 and then putting 10,000 miles on it but so few people are going to do that because of the money that will be lost yeah you know the money that’s required to get in yeah so I I know some people fast forward in that that are trying to do that with modern cars now of course I know people that have got delivery mile GI arises and even heard of a a guy the other day that bought a um VOR sprung uh RS3 modern never used it yeah no no I mean you got to play the game right well 30 years yeah you got you got to play game just got sit there forever yeah but that’s the thing I think a lot of people in that world Auction World investor world are trying to figure out right now is is what what do the next 10 20 30 years look like for the collector Market because as I say the the pre-war stuff even the the 50s and 60s stuff you know the market is shrinking for that kind of stuff 1 million per because the big big money guys crypto not so much anymore but still people who are making a ton of money now in their late 30s 40s somewhere younger are buying yeah 990s and ughs cars you saw that collection that blew up over Christmas only appeared over Christmas that Tim went to film um which had like a Reventon uh a singer um I can’t remember what else was in the collection but anyway apparently a very young guy Fair very young guy has been super successful hey look at Lee collection yeah yeah you know in the Grand and that’s all modern cars so if you’re someone who’s advised in the classic car world you’re probably thinking oh God how do I entice these guys to come and spend the money here and there are still enough old boys and old GS that are that are buying the sort of art pieces yeah but less and less so so you’re right there’s a game to be played of look over the last five years what are the cars that could in 30 40 years time fly and you got I think you need you need to have kids around you to tell you right what are the 12 and 13 year olds freaking out about right now electric cars you you might not be wrong though yeah you know you might not be wrong everyone keeps telling us and I think I think seven and eighty olds are being educated to only care about and and see the my daughter she’s that’s every old she is that’s what she talked about so you should buy a mini electric now and and not put a mile on it and leave it on charge for 30 years and then in 30 years are going have to replace the battery and it’s not going to be worth anything well done it is fascinating though not really because do combustion engine vehicles that any just become art physical bits of art that you put on walls you know people not an hour lifetime yeah but not an hour life time too many there are there are already people doing it with things like 60s 911s even motorbikes you know uh hanging cars on walls and stuff like it’s not completely unheard of at this stage to 50 year old stuff then so another 50 years so I’m right not in our lifetime okay so I didn’t mean would cars that are being made today become art I mean in general will will cars become more will The Collector scene become less about driving and more about art I think that’s already started mate I think that started a while ago people people that are people that are giving a million quid for Carrera GTS and nearly 2 million quid for f40s and all that yeah you’re probably right it’s a look at and to appreciate the story it’s not yeah yeah yeah you got Enzo at nearly 3 million quid now yeah that that that is not to drive and enjoy no chance what’s with my do you know what do you know what as well when you reminded me about um The League collection I’m not going to talk about the League collection but you reminded me about Australia I got a very good customer um he’s Australian he watches the show actually good day good day um bought car from him last week and he told me a story the other day which horrified me by the way do you remember when we went to Sydney mhm and we went to that nice little lunch spot in the bay yeah nope yeah yeah when we went to the National Park oh my God come on in Sydney well when you when you drove the um oh yeah yeah yeah yeah sorry sorry when we drove with the um what’s it called mlar Ela and the black the black series Black Series we went to that beautiful little B yeah sorry that was in the northern beaches yeah yeah fine yeah gone so uh and I asked the waiters at the time and the sharks in that bay in the bay in the bay and he said uh well probably and then one of them said no don’t be so stupid yeah there’s this charity where you swim to the island yeah yeah yeah yeah but there’s a woman got eaten there had her leg off last week a week before whenever M that’s terrifying that was a lovely little inviting B you go and you get eaten but I told you Vicki went and swam in that bay and she was on a paddle board this is one of my favorite stories cuz we were staying there cuz my godmother used to have a house in that bay and it was like you could paddle down to the cafe to for lunch I VII was like I’m going to go on the paddle board and on the way back these kids local kids there’s a stingray underneath you there’s a stingray underneath you so Vicki started having a panic attack like she’s like oh my God what do I do like with the stingray she couldn’t paddle board and they Stingray is going to get you and she couldn’t see it so she’s looking around going the freaking sting W isn’t that what killed Steve irn and she never worked out whether they were trolling her or not but now based on your story they probably weren’t they were probably just telling the truth they probably was a stingr ready to eat Vicki well they sting you sting Vicki they don’t eat you well who knows but this is a shark meate I mean I know a stingray killed Steve irn bless him but this woman only lost her leg Steve’s dead well yeah he is but but it was an accident you know what I mean I think the shark biting the leg was an accident as well no mate it’s not funny and and I saw a clip the other day of one right in Australia right on the on the beach trying to get another fish I mean you literally going in the sea you’re dead I’m not going in there m I told you wait do you live in Australia no luckily are you going back I might have to we are we going back I think calm down that’s what I’m going to say calm down with his shark fears uh anyway uh exciting news I guess for us but potentially bad news for you um the Portugal tour sold out sold out I mean like three days I mean literally Gom gone uh so we have 10 very interesting uh cars signed up very lovely people oh they’re all Porsches I mean literally I think like 70% of them are we’ve been have you got anything else you might want to this become a Porsche but yeah no joke like literally 70% of them are Porsche GT cars um but yeah a real nice variety some super nice people we’re very very excited uh we are running a a waiting list of which there’s already I think about six or seven people signed up uh properly signed up for the waiting list so if you are desperately interested in intrigu you can still get in touch and inquire about the waiting list but if I’m honest it’s almost chapter closed with the Portugal tour um we will be announcing tour number two the September SL maybe October event probably as soon as that event ends so so the the April week commencing the 15th of April uh once that tour is over we’ll probably then announce tour number two yeah so stay tuned for those of you that have missed out or those of you that are looking forward to doing something a little bit different to that um yeah more details to come around April time of 20 number two but thank you for the support thank you for the inquiries we’re quite excited aren’t we we’re very excited as well yeah I can’t wait to be fair I don’t know what I keep like I keep debating what car to take oh oh no because like but you’re the crew car Mak so I understand you got to you got to keep that in mind that you’re you’re very much you know you’re we both of us we’re playing a support role to our attendees so that they can have the maximum experience yeah so I prob not about us having a maximum experience I understand that you have to reveal anything by the way I’m not going to because I still don’t know what car I’m going to I have I can take a practical car or less practical car basically and I’m leaning towards the Practical car I think you need to take the Practical car I agree all will be revealed soon we will be revealing beforehand what cars Tony and I are taking mine will be less of a surprise yours maybe I know who knows uh but yeah plenty more on that and and as we mentioned last week I’ll be doing main Channel content there’ll be podcast content so you they’ll be able to come along with us virtually or digitally uh on that tour now I wanted to update you because last week I went to drive the new Range Rover Sport p635 SV first edition so that’s the new svr basically catch your name isn’t it I actually don’t know how we’ll refer to it do we to call it the new SV or it’s the SV or the p635 cuz what’s the defender V8 is officially called the P something something something isn’t it we just call it the defender V8 well yeah that’s what that’s what it is so yeah so I I think we just call it the Range Rover Sport SV or just the really expensive Range Rover Sport well yeah really expensive should we come back to that I guess I think we got it um how how intrigued are you or were you about that car never that or um why because what’s wrong with the normal one quite a lot if I’m honest how much time have you spent in the new Range River sport a bit of time I’ve had about three in stock yeah have you driven them around yeah yeah yeah I think they’re underwhelming well like all modern cars mate no I disagree they’re all underwhelming I think the Big Range Rover is overwhelming I think the newest generation Big Range Rover is superb very hard to knock apart from that Range Rover Sport I think lost a lot of its identity blurred into v/ big Ranger it became a lot more serious it was very plush it didn’t kind of seem as appealing it price-wise got a lot close to the Big Range Rover I don’t know I just my dad had those Range Rover sports for years and years and years there was always a charm to them I always enjoyed driving his car I always enjoyed getting in his car I thought they looked cool they looked different to the big cars then that new one came out and it just all got a bit blurred and messy and I spent six weeks with one that P p535 the lar year yeah yeah in the south of France I just kind of was a bit like just a bit cumbersome like remember I did that drive down and I text you being like I’ve never been more comfortable on a drive down to Monica and I’ve never been more bored like it just didn’t do much for me I can probably sum this up for you go on I can probably help you out here so the old car kind of as expensive as it was kind of punched above its weight essentially compared to the old Vogue so they’ be closer together but it was still quite a lot cheaper and actually it drove better um not down the road better but dynamically it drove a lot better whereas the the the price of the new car as good as it is is really close to the Vogue but the Vogue is leagues ahead that there you go that’s exactly what it is and obviously my experience with the car in the south of fronts been a lot of twisty narrow roads up on C and down and so dynamically I needed the car to not be as wafty as it was but yeah it’s it’s just it’s just lost so for me there was room for improvement I did not think the room for improvement was with an SV badge or svr but but I think it’s a perfectly good car mate me the sport the normal sport yeah you know I would we’ve said this before I would definitely have the Vogue over the sport whereas probably in the old car would have had the sport over the Vogue essentially my point is proven that yeah yeah but what I’m saying is that still doesn’t mean it’s not a good car in class oh no no no you know when you consider they have dropped in value quite a lot especially when you compare it with the old car the old car held its money for a lot longer um than than the newer car so the new the newer car was wasn’t really overs ever there was a there was a small period of time where it was and that might be a moment in time but but the the the older Shape Car there was like a a point there was like a 2year wait for them I mean you literally couldn’t get them I I I I I agree with you it’s a fantastic car it just excite excited me less or excites me less I thought the hybrid was spectacular that I drove in Spain during the launch I know Harry Metar just went through all the Finance on it and the hybrid was lot is is a lot more expensive to own and run and buy and things like that so he went with the diesel but anyway long story short what I’m trying to get on to is I thought there was room for an improvement yeah and now I would not buy any other range of a sport except the SV bear with me let’s not count to the price bear with me because okay performance-wise who sort of really cares because I’m still of that mindset of who needs a super SUV like I’m still I’m still kind of anti the super SUV thing they’re so impressive but I’m like how often do you drive an SUV like that even eurus turbo GT like all these things I’m like how often are you getting an SUV and going for a blast on an Alps Road or Waking Up on a Sunday morning going I’m going to go for a nice little Drive in my SUV well the problem is mate as well there’s so many other cars you could have that all right they’re not SUVs but just in general there’s so many other car cars you could have for loads cheaper that would be better well you could still do you could do the two car you could still have a fast four seater Saloon and a practical SUV for the money of a super SUV long story short um I struggle with that but so the performance is very very very impressive in terms of uh n 60s and horsepowers it’s that BMW it’s the M5 engine essentially and it feels a bit M5 turned up as well turned up yeah so like nearly 640 horsepower um the thing that is mindboggling about this car they’re calling it 6D Dynamics it has the like the jeel damper setup essentially that McLaren uses MH it makes the ride unbelievable because turned down in everyday mode it is incredibly comfortable it’s as a Range Rover should be and it’s Tweeter than the standard car it actually behaves better on a road in a city in a twisty Road like it it’s in cover mode everything is just a little bit more less wafty less oh doesn’t feel so heavy to turn through the BS turn it up into SV mode holy crap mate it like I I just knocked super SUVs it’s unbelievably accomplished as good as any of those fast things I said in the video I said that it reminded me terms of the way it eats up the bumps of the Pura sangu because of the speed you can carry over a bump I think it’s less brittle than a eurus Perle man turbo GT I think I drove on a very cayen turbo GT drove on a very smooth road so I can’t quite remember but it is very very rq8 I think it’s better than an rsq8 fa it’s super super impressive actually enjoyable to drive you got to turn traction off most important thing you have to turn traction off obvious lit doesn’t let you go anywhere um super super impressive on a very tight and twisty Road very like genuinely the front end is almost a bit too eager at times the steering it’s got re steering that’s why well no but standard car is rear steering or you can option re steer the standard car it’s not that they’ve tighten up the steering rack massively so so sorry steering ratio so it just is almost too direct it’s almost to the inputs a lot of the time you’d get to the corner and the front end would go and you’d feel the weight and the rest of the car being like no I can’t follow no it’s but it’s not it isn’t like it’s not a frightening car to drive it’s all very Progressive it’s very enjoyable it’s very easy it I I see you’re desperate to not like or be impressed it’s it is very good mate no I’m not I’m not I’m I’m not going to say anything because I’m not I’ve not driven it and I’m not driven it any sort of speed or Pace but what you’re describing I get and I respect your professional opinion obviously um but I I I can’t compute or comprehend in my head that really when you show it a corner at real speed or Pace that it won’t be that good I you drive it on the road as well right yeah yeah only on the road I didn’t go anywhere near the track TR what’s the point of going on a track and an SUV well I agree but but there was a there was a there was a everyone went on track I was like what’s the point International launch was going on track I was like why am I going on track at an SUV I I agree with you but that’s what I’m saying that these manufacturers now you know they’ll put a thing out for it to go on track but I that’s what I’m saying like yeah I agree with you like I only drove on the road I did 600 km in it I did 600 km I sat on the motorway the entire way up to Lisbon I did 270 km on the motorway perfect as a ranger of a sport should be loads of music all the adap all the adaptive cruise controls perfect like great lovely place to sit got into town lovely maneuverable easy totally fine great on the way back I went avoid motor was had an absolute blast had an absolute blast and and so of course mate I’m not saying for a second that the car is not big and heavy and desperate to under steer and all of these things I’m never ever going to deny that that’s the fact but it hid its weight perfectly right it it it it controlled its weight perfectly it didn’t hide its weight two and a half t plus at least but but it controlled it very well it didn’t ever apart from if you leave traction on you leave traction on it despises going fast yeah but if you turn the traction off or just dial it back into the track setting it it lets itself be driven fast as any of these super SUVs do my fre is the same yeah okay so for me mate that is the they are super close right as the perfect sporty all around practical daily car for me it be between sport SV and the M3 touring in terms of they are very dynamically similar of course the M3 is a lot more dynamically in tune but you still it’s got that similar Vibe yeah you can see similarities Fair problem is the SV is twice the money well and this is this was going to this was literally why you was talking I was literally thinking in my head what’s wrong with a 60 Grand M5 that I mean and and honestly yeah that is the point because it’s very very good and of course you know even if you take new car for new car the M3 touring it is it’s nowhere near as plush as the Range Rover the badge is different everything about it people like the SUV VI I get it but my other problem with that is because the sport has blurred that line it’s not impactful enough the old svr was so lar was so in your face no matter way you saw it like the noise the big gills in the Bonnet like everything about it this one is I mean okay fine in the first edition with that paint and the lime green caliber stuff like it’s it’s doing it it’s best to be in your face but it’s still super subtle yeah I get out a few few times be like yeah yeah so and probably super quiet as well right engineered noise inside engineered noise inside whereas the svr really is a I think they’re unbelievable them cars their svr for for 60 grand for a threee old one I mean what a car and that so for me this is where it came down to I the thing that I was doing is like you don’t need to go that fast in that car you don’t it’s so impressive that it can but what you actually gain by their desire to make the car that capable of is the slow speed gains do you think it’s dynamically as good as like an RS6 yes I don’t know if it’s better because an R I hated driving the RS6 far because it’s it when you start showing that car some coolness and really giving it stick the RS6 it it’s quite cumbersome yeah and remind you a little bit of an SUV to be fair cuz it’s big and heavy and under steer all the things the M3 touring isn’t by the way which is why it’s dynamically loads better than an RS6 that’s why I say you think it’s no I I would prefer to drive the SV over an RS6 on a twisty Road fair if you put if you put me on the top of the transfer Garrison well that me the two I’d get in the SV yeah that tells you some um it’s a really good C but you’re just who is buying it for what is 180 Grand plus well so that it starts supposedly the first edition which is theoretically sold out but call your range R dealer because I doubt it is um it’s 171 Grand but then to get the super spec with the carbon wheels LOL and the carbon Ceramics LOL it’s an extra 14 Grand so you’re up 185 for the car that I drove was 185 yeah you I mean it’s you know dbx 707 Beyond Cayenne Turbo GT not that you can get them anymore Bex 707s more than that it’s like 190 something so it’s another five or six but I mean as much as we slate that car it’s a bloody Aston Martin yeah yeah so like I agree mate I I that for me is like what you’ve just hey there theoretically sold out which from a PR point of view is half the job done that’s a lie because who’s actually B like what what for a Range Rover Sport 18 five I’ve had two customers in the last month that have ordered them and asked me if I should take them because it’s a lot of money and they’ve canceled both them both them canc I look hey I’m the biggest jlr Fanboy in the world I I you know I I obviously lean more towards jagu but I love a range over product as I say those big range overs I would having a heartbeat if I had the money in the space yeah the sport is very good I just didn’t like it as much but across the board I remember my mom’s had a vote anyway yeah yeah that’s almost I’m like Target demographic yeah but you’ve just ruined it with that price tag I mean we know range of sport new one has been expensive anyway but even if it was 150 you’d be like okay I kind of get it theoretically it’s limited blah blah blah blah blah but 185 it just annoys me it just annoys me I agree and the the the the the older shape svr obviously this new one’s a better car by the sounds of been quite a lot better yeah miles better yeah but well the interior for a start before you even turn a key but that old car was 100 Grand 105 110 if you got a lar one dou the money almost nearly double the money I mean it’s a little bit of a yeah Pake when you think about it really and actually like what what ises it listening to you for five minutes what does it actually really compete with like for for the money like you’d have probably have the Porsche over over it I’d say it’s that that’s the most appropriate rival because they’re equally as Bland you know what I mean do you know what I mean like that Porche GT is very good though right it’s unbelievably good but it’s the same thing where only the Nerds know it’s a turbo GT to everyone else is it’s a cayen and it’s going to be the same with that range of a sport SV most range overover yeah go on what else would you compare it with or rival it with well if you if you’re if you’re going money you have to compare it with a big hit big hitters as well like like an Urus like the 707 and it’s not it’s not that brand to command that money I know uh I know an Urus purple man or an Urus s they are more once they’ve been speced but list for list there’s not a great deal of difference between the two and obviously you go extras and they start piling up 707 the same but we all know I’m not the biggest Aston fan but I’d have the 707 I know that’s that’s why I couldn’t believe I was saying the same thing like I hate that I hate the TPX but I would pick it in price for price and but the for me the big resolution is the 60 Dynamics all the improvements have made the range of a sport better at lower speeds in an everyday situations at which point if you’re thinking of spending that much just to get a better range of a sport buy the Big Range Rover yeah do you know what I mean because unless you really think I’m gonna buy this SV to go on a hey come on the Portugal tour in a range of a sport SV or you’re going to do track days at Silverstone every other other month first you’re buying the wrong car for both situations but long story short then just go and buy the Big Range Rover so again like it’s just oh I was so annoyed because I loved it and I was like I just would have one of these I would M I would hands down have one if it was hund 10 or 15 grand I would be like yeah cool I’m gonna do it and I would have one over an M3 touring I would have one over an M3 touring if it simil all those things but I would never have one at 185 Grand even if I won the Euro Millions I’m not buying one so that’s why it never it was never going to be it was never going to be M3 touring money no no no it was never going to be M3 touring money but do you see what I mean like it’s if it if if the price felt more appropriate it feels disproportionately expensive yeah yeah and that’s what’s frustrating about it but you know if if you have decided if you’re wealthy enough to not care and you’ve got one coming boy will you be happy it is a fantastic bit of care y Fair it is a fantastic but there’s nothing wrong with a Range Rover full stop for 90% of what you’re going to use it for yeah probably but anyway should we move on yeah because it’s time for stockat stockat we’re going to check out some stock that we’ve seen got to get that them Jun sorted out um now I need I need your help Tony okay you have got to stop me from buying a car what’s that so oh mate I’ve just seen it I’m in so much trouble here Tony I’m I actually don’t know how I ended up in this position but you know like I just love Cruising Auto Trad and car sales and I’ve got this long you know months ahead I got a anyway who cares this is a gen 1.5 2016 poror Panamera Turbo S currently listed for sales at margari Automotive have you heard of that I’ve never heard of them marari Automotive no um I mean where do I start with the good news firstly Voodoo Blue to pts basically yeah it’s got lovely Wheels Ceramics carbon Ceramics yeah loads of another ice options 22,000 Mi right sun roof yep £54,000 okay why can I not buy it cuz it’s a pile of no M I like I literally I I’ve I have so nearly called these people about four times I obviously would needed to be inspected but I think they’re somewhere like in Plymouth and there’s there’s like a Porsche dealer there so I was like okay cool I just get the 111 point inspection like make sure Ceramics are the big thing cuz they’re going to be 10 grand to replace so I need to make sure s’s got life um this is the 1.5 2016 car so B scoring things like that with not that much of an issue the turbos had to had a recoil I got to check those air suspension needs to be checked but apart from that like mate what a stun of water car Voodoo Blue you’ve got way too much money I mean that that’s 55 grand and 55 grand a year to maintain no it’s not no it’s not I’ve read so many buyer guides these are not expensive cars to run these are not panamas compared to cayen and all things like that especially if they’re well looked after if they had the right we there is not a ton of stuff that goes wrong servicing all things like that they are not compared to some of the crap I look at these are not expensive to run mate all right off you go then and let me know how you get on in two years and also let me know how you get on when you want to come out of it because I don’t want it I will not be able to sell it yeah yeah for that reason I I will not be able to sell it for you it’ll sit around for a year before the next person mad enough to part with any money and and it’ be worth 25 Grand the thing is I know you’re right and this is the problem so the reason I haven’t called these people lovely mcari Automotive I’m sorry for ruining your day ruining your day um we sure it’s a nice example I think it’s a fantastic example I think it’s the best example out there by Country Mile and I I want it but thing is I I know you’re right it’s the most expensive whatever that generation paname is by country mile um it’s a quirky spec it’s got the ceramics so it’s expensive like there’s all the things about it like and you’re right I don’t know how long they’ve had it for sale but it’s not going to be a car that’s going to be easy to move because for that money as well you can get the the latest generation you can get the estate version and you know you can get the newer generation car oh but I I just think it’s so cool mate I think it’s so cool mainly because of the spec like it’s probably too low miles for me cuz like that’s almost like borderline collector miles 2016 22,000 miles like that’s you know I’m going to go and put ,000 mil on it pretty quickly well who’s going to collect it the dealer that stocks it cuz no one I mean honestly mate please cool it’s so cool though I could just take a punt I just be like going wild you know like all look all those American YouTubers they buy absolute PS of crap and they make loads of content on it and doesn’t seem to affect them okay off you go then I know I shouldn’t know I know it’s an awful financial decision I don’t think from a maintenance point of view but I just love it I just I think it’s so cool and actually you’re going to get a bill mate maybe I’ll get a bill but I’m not going to get a change toari Bill I’m not get a bit I’d have to get it inspected I’d have to the for me the biggest bill is the Ceramics if they turn around and say the Ceramics are needing then I’m never getting near that car but suspension let’s go well no but they but they don’t if I mean low mileage it’s a bit woring because it suggests it’s been sitting around quite a lot that’s when the suspension lets go but they don’t just let go the suspension it’s according to all the guides and reviews it’s if the cars sit around for a long time or if they have faults and it’s a repressurizing of the system or at most to replace the whole system two grand oh good two grand oh lovely that’s what I mean you got too much money just literally two grand no on a 55 grand car it’s a bill but M I just paid five grand to just change some bolts on the challeng toy you me like I’m kind of used to Big bills yeah but it’s all right to have one big Bill but when you got two or three cars and they start commanding bills it’s not funny you’re literally I could be like well you know I’m a YouTuber like I to make content on it cuz that’s what those Americans do it really annoys me all the Americans they’ve got like 50 cars and they’re all pieces and they all work on them endlessly and then they they seem fine just copying Matt Armstrong no no Matt does something amazing he buys recks and rebuilds them and makes that’s unbelievable no but like it’s not a r it’s not a w it’s 22,000 miles it’s perfect like it’s unbelievable got some nice light on the photos someone else go and buy this car please to stop me from making what will I know cuz you’re right I’ve also never really liked to paname but I love this um you’re right that in six months time I’m going to be like why did I buy this Panamera and then I literally I’m going to really struggle to come out of it so somebody else going and buy and you have to think about these things Shout Out mcari Automotive for taking some fantastic photos of that I made I’m not saying no I’m not saying no just yet I’m going to call them this afternoon uh what’s your Stockwatch this week mate what you sh um actually I’m going to go yeah um 296 296 at European Prestige yeah black car very you listed at two have we not done a 296 before listed at 230 didn’t we do an fa or something what did we do no we’ve done um did we do a Pista oh yeah pist f you’re just Ferrari obsessed no I just um these jump that cheap yes these jump out at me because 6 months ago or a year ago they’re 300 odd Grand what what what’s a list price on a 296 oh you SPC one up what’s a list price uh mine was 308 no yeah it was yeah with oh wow with some options oh fair so take the dealer mark I mean this 100 Grand 2,000 miles on the clock this one here yeah so black on black on black what else has it got it’s 100 Grand saving I mean let’s be honest it’s not going to do that again it’s not going to lose another 100 Grand it’s not going to be 129 Grand M that car no but it could be 175 180 well all right well so can so can everything else not my Panamera well that hold on a minute it could actually oh I want that car that’s that they are there’s a lot of them online that I I think when they get they’ll get to 19 199 at some point soon in the next year or so I would have thought that’s going to be unbelievable car at 199 200 grand for that what’s happening to Ferrari mate they’ve lost the plot mate what’s happening to Ferrari used values M this is insane because this is an incredible car like a spectacular car yeah that and I know people are can say oh yeah that it’s because it’s got V6 in it it’s cuz it’s hybrid no one wants it we know the truth is no one wants it cuz they bought it to get a purang way or to get a two an sf90 yeah extra darly or to be consideration for we don’t let’s not forget the new laugh is coming probably end of this year they wanted a convertible and that to buy the coupa as well it it’s it’s playing the game yeah is now playing out on the used Market because you know I say you are you are mad if you don’t think that that is a fantastic car and and look at any single person who’s driven that car journalist collector bu it is a fantastic car is there a better is there a better Modern super car on the market haven’t driven 750s yet I think it’s got to be one of the best it has to be it’s got modern I mean like when I say modern I mean in the last year or two release yeah yeah it’s got it’s got to be what’s better than it I don’t know yeah I don’t know it’s a f fantastic car and you’re right therefore at 200 grand 50 of them online 50 but a Ferrari do Ferrari care about this cuz this does not diminish brand value a little bit they used to care I don’t think they care anymore CU they floated didn’t they it’s all share olders don’t give a toss anymore but I think it does I think the minute you can start buying Ferraris cheaper than Lambos McLaren Porsches Etc it it ruins the brand a bit it opens up the Ferrari brand itself to all the people that they’re trying to you know sorry sir no cars are available you know you walk in saying hi I want to order well it’s a 5e wait well fine I’ll just go to the four court next door and buy one for 150 grand less like but by the way why we compare because we should compare none of the other Mid Engine Ferrari supercars have ever dumped that money in the first year ever well I can’t think of it f8s are still more as we spoke about in recent episodes we done that’s what I mean we’ve done a comparison that’s why that’s why we done a comparison they with the similar money what’s a 4 five8 these days cuz they’ve been stupid a good one will still be 150 160 for good one with low mileage I’m going to find I’m going to do this is just me being silly for a second we’re similar to 488 man good 488 is 1516 I want to see what the most expensive 458 is just for BS oh mate I bet it’s 18200 Grand would there be someone out there deluded yeah yeah I say well the specialities one uh okay let’s do Coupe hold on a sec body type cou there will be be between 180 and 200 Italia for an old knocker here we go 1,000 mile y 4558 Coupe 185 there you go what a load of old rubbish and then you’ve got a couple a main dealer 8,000 M car 160 yeah so the stupid part is going to be you’re going to get to a point where very soon a a a 15-year-old 458 close to a 15 4558 is going to be about 20 grand less than a 296 yeah and every well that always happens old Ferrari always appreciate new Ferrari like but the this is all getting a bit silly people well they will this is getting a bit silly yeah they’ll they’ll they will find their feet like I said they’re not doing that again they’re not doing another 100 Grand that car won’t be 130 in the next year or two it just won’t cuz a seveny old 488 is still 160 with good miles on it going back to our chat the start of the episode with you know future classics all these kind of things people that is this a car at 180 190 that you buy and you just stick away I don’t know mate it’s a computer that car it is a computer scking it away but but will these recover will people suddenly go oh actually hold on a sec because the one that I obviously keep staring out is the is the rors the rors continue to be in free fall I’ll tell you when they recover when they stop making them when they stop making them yeah they’ll recover then I don’t think they’ll recover back to anywhere near where they were list but they’ll they’ll hold and trickle which is normal that’s what normal Ferraris normally do but obviously they vote opened up to a bigger customer base now they got a lot more cars on offer and obviously they play the game with the people as well same as pora por do the same thing yeah but Porsche I don’t know yeah but you’re talking different money with Porsche that’s the problem you know when you’ve got when you’ve got a a lot of 911 sitting on the market they’re 90 100 Grand yeah when you got a lot of 29 and it’s a different customer mate you know the the customer that’s got 80 or 90 grand for a car he ain’t got 250 grand for a car I don’t know why though as good I don’t sit here getting excited that I’m going to go and buy that soon and I don’t no one is cuz there’s 50 of them online yeah it’s hard to get only been a year yeah and I know how good it is but I’m not going I really want we saw the same of the sf90 as well remember same are they recovering a little bit or not I think that’s masked because of the people had to keep them and buy them for that FX yeah XX Str XX thing Andrew when I went up to Alexander to film that Bentley he he had one in that literally he just he sold it when I whilst I was there um very nice stock but it was I can’t what he sold it at but but a good like money that I thought well H that’s a lot of car for that money yeah it starts with three I think I think they’ll go back I think they’ll go back up because people will what real SF 9s Fair because they are baby hyper Cars full on and even though they are apparently pigs if you don’t use them or the batteries in the tech you know if if you’re using it regly like shme you’re fine but if you leave them parked up apparent they do start to go a bit wrong did you see the did you see the drag race online with that with the uh 918 no TR it drive off yeah yeah yeah people I think they’ll make their way back up to half a mil I think yeah yeah you think that goes back to half a mil I think so no in time in time will we still be alive yeah look at tdfs mate they they’re back up at 8 50 yeah but no they more than that some of a million quit I I don’t think that car’s special enough to do that the sf90 I I can’t see that going back up 25 30% personally I think it might stable I can’t see it going back up near list maybe there too the Jump’s too big well anyway two uh two fantastic cars out there for for you to go and buy people uh a bargain 296 at European Prestige and possibly the best paname in Europe which I need you to buy so that I don’t uh anyway can you believe it right now unbeknownst to us the Geneva motor show is happening M I didn’t even know it was happening yeah so so just to bring everyone up to speed in case you’re going what what you on about uh Geneva M used to be I would say the biggest uh trade not trade event biggest um industry event each year like from when when I started in this game like bloody hell that was the thing you had to go to it was the car show to go to it was exhausting it was full on but it was the the place to be from a network you would start your year you’d secure your business you’d meet up with all the different manufacturers the Press team see all the new cars everything was unveiled like if you didn’t go to Geneva you were like that was bad for your year yep and then as we’ve discussed over the recent years with covid and things like that and the money and the growth of things like FES speed in Quail out in America well yeah just interest had disappeared um the the need for it has seemingly disappeared well I think Co killed it co did kill it and just the rise of social media and things like that people launch cars in a different way now um but it is taking place and the Really the big news out of it was the Rena R5 finally got unveiled um unbelievably cool thing we’ve spoken about it a bit before um three different Power Trains I think two sort of urban and then one for a little bit from 25 Grand that’s what they’re saying they’re estimating from 25 Grand in the UK for the the base urban car yeah so I think that means the Larry one’s going to be sort of high 30s I guess for the long range one um it looks awesome I think they’re they’re doing everything right in my mind in terms of whether the inside looks really nice that’s how it should be um let’s wait and see I can’t work out how big it is Big well you know we big is relative but it’s not a little tiny car but people don’t make tiny cars anymore so um I think that that’s good yeah good on them I can’t wait to see one I you know you can go and buy an R5 Pass which apparently is like 150 quid and gets you one of the first slots and you can get an early car I think with all new e don’t buy an early one wait six months just let some of the initial snagging stuff out the way or leas one or lease one yeah Le leasing is going to be a very good option on that car but yeah I look forward to having a go one I’m definitely going to try and buy one once they’re in the okay did you see go on you’ve jogged my memory did you see hyai H discontinue the i2n and the i3n yeah petrol ends yeah yeah yeah it’s a shame because the N is now going to be purely electric n performance is going to be Electric in this country or worldwide not sure worldwide but Europe I would think because it’s not won’t be just this country will it’ll be Europe yeah what a shame well just the the next manufacturer replacing an iconic Mark with electric only equivalent yeah I mean it hasn’t got it hasn’t left the huge Legacy that n Hundai but it’s an iconic little car for the time it was out I mean it’s a bloody brilliant car both of them I think as yeah as we’ve said even the Ken uh as we’ve said that those three Kona I20 and I30 are not overlooked cuz I think people know about them great but they’re unbelievably good little things yeah proper little hot hatches that’s actually that’s what we should do more often we often say our Manan and the Civic and the goto’s i3m we should start including that as proper drivers hot hatchers yes it’s in there but but I think it’s still third out of them three on the list but but it’s also a lot cheaper yeah performance character reliability all those different things yeah reliability yeah it’s a winner five year war he um even though we’re desperately trying not to lose subscribers by talking about EVS I do have to mention one inos my beloved Grenadier quirkiest but coolest SUV that that lives um Mr Radcliffe sir oh sir dream just bought man united I know or a bit of it I know he got that is that impressive is that cool well he’s leaving a Legacy isn’t he that’s what he’s doing it for but he owns everything he owns the cycling team he owns the F1 team he owns a football team in somewhere else ni n there you go which is not very good but yeah fine um well done sir new new model from them fuselier fuselier um reason I’m bringing it up interesting because firstly you know the Grenadier was really in my mind focused on that one spe job of basically going going to the places that no other vehicle could get you to like it was it was good on the road but really where it was at its best was just absolutely Offroad yeah like in the Sahara desert yeah so I thought okay electric because the new fuselier electric I thought well that’s interesting cuz how far can you go off Ro well he’s not he’s not a stupid man old Jim he’s absolutely that is not they’ve spoken about the fact that there will definitely be a range extender version yeah um for that but also looking at I think you know various various uh what would you call it um power sources no various uh power train power trains there we go so I like the look of it I have to say it’s a little bit smaller a little bit more puny than the old Grenadier and I just like that because they’re semi well they are independent because obviously he’s entered this world in a bit of a like a here we are boom kind of way he’s been a bit outspoken I saw a few quotes from him where he was just like look let’s face it Eve’s work in some environments but they’re not perfect in every environment and we got to look at different options and range extender is going to be good for us and this is going to be the most capable eeve in and off-road environment and therefore you know we need to make sure it can go distances and we’re looking at other things like he was just very much like we’re not honest I saw that I think the quote that was in Top Gear or order was like we’re not going to be like a sheep and follow the masses into this kind of all only yeah beev Market we’re going to look at all the options and and I like that and I saw Mercedes came out saying that they’re also going to continue making combustion engine Vehicles well into 2030s and I think you know we speak about it and we’re not going to bang on about it but I like now that people are opening this conversation into multiple options and I just thought it was kind of cool that that they were like not going no here’s our electric we’re now we’re going to make an electric it was like hey here’s our new model we’re going there’s going to be loads of varieties you know we look at different ways to to power this thing yeah cool an electric generator range extender type vehicle makes complete sense to me yeah as does an extreme hybrid yeah as does a one liter crazy hybrid you know so just you know all worth looking into but yeah cool little car as I say for me sizewise I’d like a something a little bit smaller puncher the grad de is cool but a touch too big for me but anyway long and short of it I think that is it for our car news and our episode there were a few other things unveiled at Geneva but nothing particularly that caught my eye you didn’t even know what was going on so I I I literally didn’t have a clue fine um so yeah so we’ll wrap up this week’s episode I’m just looking now do we tease do we tease the new format of rap my ride you can if you want to just drop a little little gem at the end for those of you that have stuck with us right until the end cuz I think some of you drift off there’s a core audience right here at the end let’s just let’s just say Rate My Ride 2024 is going to take on a bit of a new meaning yeah and we want to physically is that right physically rate your your rides Yeah by driving them I’m going to come and slate it going on you it’s uh yeah so I think maybe we’ll launch it next week maybe we’ll launch that concept next week that’ll be cool yeah coming to some of your aies or you coming to us and we driving your car basically there you go just I was teasing it Tony just revealed the whole concept but there you have it we’ll end things there if you’ve been listening to us on Spotify or apple podcast a few days earlier than the old video episode well done you uh you can review uh rate this uh podcast please do so uh if you’re watching us then subscribe now turn on notifications if you want to follow Tony in the meantime he’s at Tony gra carelles on most social media platforms I’m at se through glass and this podcast is at behind the glassor podcast we’ll be back with you next week for the full explanation of all new things Rate My Ride bye-bye there are