LIVE: EAM S Jaishankar's ‘Smart' Answer To Question On India-Russia Ties, Antony Blinken Smiles

LIVE: EAM Jaishankar’s ‘Smart’ Answer To Question On India-Russia Ties, Antony Blinken Smiles

External affairs minister S Jaishankar on Saturday asserted that India should not be criticised for having multiple options and reaffirmed its stand and commitment to buy Russian oil despite respective sanctions on Moscow amid the ongoing war with Ukraine.

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Standards and our legal situation in the European Union and you can like it or not but this is how uh in which context we are working in our European legal system uh we have a sanction uh system for listing under terrorism if terrorism occurs in um another country especially

In the European Union it was after the um attacks uh on the US on the 9th of September so we need a legal ground to list them so far we do not have uh the evidence and proof that there have been this terrorist attacks in the European

Union there were different cases it’s a different legal system in the years but and this is important for me because I hear this argument again and again this is not because we shy away with regard to the Revolutionary God or the crimes against though women use Civil Society

Its own population no we use the instruments we are having as a European Union to defend human rights and set up for the first time in history of the European Union a sanction systems because of human rights violation and for me this is even stronger in the past

It was the same with Dash and the crimes against jidi women yeah they have been brought to court not slaughtering women not saying these are the worst sexual violence crimes you commit but under terrorism I think this is wrong we have to name the crimes and the crime is

Targeting directly to women directly to Human Rights we say we sanction you because of what you have done to you shooting in your eyes killing your friends killing uh your your sisters and it’s the same effects and this it comes all down to me for me politics it’s not

About symbolic action it’s about what matters for the people and under this sanction R system human rights sanctions from the EU revolutionary guards we named them cannot enter the European un Union we have Frozen uh the asset so the result is exactly the same what the EUR

The US has done under the terrorist sanction system so if you ask me do we act as a result in the same way yes we do but we call it human rights sanction system because these are the worst human rights violations you can see and this

Comes also back to the other question uh about symbolic politics or what matters in in in reality we would have been at a total different state if after the 7th of October this was a question from Italy after the 7th of October we could have had a common resolution we were in Cairo

At the so-called peace Summit together with different countries many Arab Partners um and also from the European Union we tried to fix a text where we would say okay after this horrible Crimes of the 7th of October there could be the momentum now for whatever Generations have dreamed of a two-state

Solution pathway but in order to do that we have to guarantee that the 7th of October never happens again to Israel and we have to guarantee that Palestinians have the security to live in peace and security for them unfortunately those meeting there together not everybody was ready to name

The 7th of October what it was a terrorist attack from Hamas on Israeli people and this is why we passed this momentum I regret it but this is how life is so now again we have to work again if we now after four months where we see that the current situation only

Brings misery for everybody if we can regroup again and this is why what we have described before for us it’s so important to work together as European Union as the US with Arab Partners to find what we need guarantees that Israelis can live forever in security

That the 7th of October can never happen again and the the same counts for Palestinian people it has to be a irreversible path towards a two-state solution and this is our job which we have to do uh right now and we can only do it together with a different partners

Neither the US definitely not Germany but also not uh one Arab country alone can go this path we have to group and unite together for the peace in the Middle East inshah as they would say the Middle East so I just take a minute one I think a very large number of countries

Especially of the global South believe that terrorism shouldn’t be countenanced or Justified but they equally strongly believe that a two-state solution should not be delayed these are not choices these are both musts and unless we are able to address both these issues uh we are not going to really solve the

Problem well thank you uh all I know that we’ve gone over time so apologies for that and thank you to the [Applause] audience Germany welcome Anthony blinkin Secretary of State the US nice to have you and sanan jankar minister of external Affairs public of India I hope uh that based on uh the

Topic of the session that you will not all agree with each other and we can have some some Sparks uh we we have about 43 minutes and I will prepare your questions because um I’ll ask a few questions and then I’ll turn to to the audience Minister B Brock I’m going to

Start with you um Germany’s national security strategy calls for expanding Global Partnerships um and is quite open about the multipolarity of of the of the world today h how do you go about it at a time when there are so many visions and particularly when increasingly we feel

The global South and the Western world are not on the same page well first of all good afternoon very good to have this important uh session with my dear colleagues in a nutshell it’s more important than ever because uh we are not naive obviously there are ruthless

Actors who don’t want to to grab up the title of our panel and negotiates the slice of the pie but they want to rob the whole Bakery and uh having that uh in in mind I believe it’s even more important than ever that those who are at the table negotiating about the

Slices of the P stay there first of all Resolute respectfully and also reflective and this is the core also of our national security strategy which we have drafted as a German government making very clear in the light of this ruthless war of aggression against Ukraine that we are Resolute in

Defending international law it’s the best protection for everybody around the world so there is no question about negotiating whether Ukraine has right of self-defense or not we all agreed and not only I don’t like that word but western actors we all agreed in our Charter of the United Nations there is

The right of selfdefense and we all agreed on the universal Declaration of Human Rights having said that obvious ly we have to be respectful that especially within Ukraine and I think this is the lesson we have learned and it was very important to speak to Partners like

India and so many around the world Brazil um South Africa we have to be respectful that obviously in this moment when we said we need the whole International Security others asked some questions like where have you been when we needed you or ask some question so um

Actually what does it mean for the future do you also stand with us and this is I would say maybe something new in the attitude at least from our uh foreign politics uh from from from Europe to say okay we cannot take for granted that everybody just agrees with

Our European or transatlantic wish and the third part I think it’s the most easy but it’s the strongest asset for democracies the strength of democracy in my point of view is that we can be self-reflective and self critical so asking in a moment when others for example war of aggression we’re not

Saying automatically okay we support you not saying why don’t you get it but asking ourself why they cannot support us and I think this is the critical part but the most powerful part and at least again in our national security strategy we try to do it talking about for example our

Colonialism pass understanding why so Africa was mentioning the whole time their ties with Russia in the aparte regime and being self-critical and saying oh yeah not all democracies have stood back in time at their time and taking that as something where we said yes we might have made mistake in the

Past but we cannot change the past we can only change the future together I think this is the strength of multilateralism and we see around the world the majority believes in it do you find that increasingly people are quite questioning more when it comes to let’s stick to Ukraine and and we’ll

We’ll get to um to Gaza in a minute but on Ukraine are people coming around to your point of view or are they distancing themselves more well to see it over the last two years I mean we’ve seen the 142 voting in their General uh assembly so it is a

Majority of States because most of the countries in the world like mine we not the biggest country in the world we don’t have the biggest military means and this is for most of the countries they know that uh the chter of the United Nations the rule of law is their

Life insurance so we see this big majority there we need see also the support many have traveled and I think this is really important to give always the question of War of aggression or human faith it was not that we con convince some other actors in the world

But saying now you have to stand with that but when delegation traveled to Kiev and not only Kiev to butcha to Yin when they spoke like we did to the parents of those where their child had been kidnapped by Russia then we give this situation a human face and that’s all

About and this is why it’s so important to not only talk about state but we talk about the people talk about also the question of the rule of law in front of the international criminal court for excepted bringing crimes against humanity in front of the court and there

We see again the majority of the states is pushing for that one um secretary blinken uh there is a there’s a feeling that um it’s it’s more than a feeling it’s what we see on happening on the ground that the US China tensions are leading to Greater fragmentation and

That you’re almost competing for you know alliances who’s you know who’s our Ally and we we see this within within the US in various un institutions uh but we just see it all all around uh the globe to what extent do you feel that you you are challenged in your in your

Travels around the world on the fundamental uh questions well first it’s wonderful to be with my my friends wonderful to be back in Munich at the security conference known uh among all of us as speed dating for diplomats uh but we um we’ve done a couple things and I’ll come

Quickly to your question um from the start of this Administration we’ve made an investment a reinvestment in our alliances in our Partnerships and in the multilateral system uh We’ve reinvested we’ve re-engaged we tried to rejuvenate we’ve even reimagined and the reason for that is simple it’s because it’s in our

Interest to do it not a single one of the challenges that we have to face and that are so important to the interest of the American people can we effectively deal with alone as powerful and as resourceful as we are uh and so across the board we’ve seen our comparative

Advantage as having a strong network of voluntary alliances voluntary Partnerships and if you’re not at the table in the International System you’re going to be on the menu so it was very important for us to re-engage multilaterally and we’ve done that when it comes to strategic competition and there’s no doubt that we

Have one with China there are a few things to be said first we have an obligation to manage that relationship responsibly and I think that’s something that we hear from countries around the world and it’s clearly on interest to do so and that’s exactly what President Biden is doing

And when it comes to other countries the point is not to say to Country XY or Z you have to choose the point is to offer a good choice and if we can do that uh and I believe we can and we have and will continue uh then I think the choice

Becomes fairly self-evident um over the last six or seven months um we have engaged sub in a sustainable way with uh with China I just met my counterpart wangi here in Munich uh but that follows a series of uh of meetings notably most importantly President Biden and

President she uh and I think we brought greater stability to the relationship uh not uh moving away from or ignoring the fact that yes we have a competition there are areas where we are contesting each other but there are also areas where we can and should cooperate

Because it’s in our interest uh to do that one of the best examples of that is the agreement we with China on fentanyl the single largest the number one killer number one killer of Americans age 18 to 49 is a synthetic opioid fentanyl now we have meaningful cooperation from and

With China on fentanyl that’s going to make a difference in the lives of Americans and and you think it is sustainable to have cooperation on in some areas climate uh being being one of them but to have a strategic competition the strategic competition that defines geopolitics today and that will go on

For a very a very long time do you think that that is sustainable that both sides sort of can find Rules of Engagement this is where we compete and this is where we cooperate some some fundamentals haven’t changed countries will act in their self-interest uh where

We have to compete we will where we have to contest we will where it makes sense to cooperate we will and I think you can do all of the above at the same time but there’s something else that’s um I think changed and it goes back to the first part of the

Question the very fact that we’ve re-engaged and rejuvenated as well as reimagined some of our alliances and Partnerships along with the Investments that we’ve made at home in the United States the Investments we’ve made in our infrastructure the Investments we’ve made in science and technology and chips

The the building blocks of the 21st century economy the Investments we’ve made in climate technology you put those two things together Investments at home much greater alignment with partners and allies across the board in Europe in the Indo Pacific uh in Asia on how to approach a question as complicated as

Relations with China that puts us in a position of much greater strength in dealing with all of the challenges that we have to deal with uh Minister janker India has more of a um multiple choice mindset is would that be would that be right um from nonalignment to I think you may

Have called it or somebody else called it all alignment so you can pick and choose alliances but you can also pick and choose topics on Russia for example you still buy Uh Russian oil uh is that is that okay with your uh counterpart from the US everything is your your

Relationship is fine you can do whatever you want whenever you want uh okay first of all uh I me you’re sitting next to each other no first of all uh delighted uh to be here uh and I couldn’t find a better set of people to

Be with on the stage uh so thank you for whoever put us all together uh your question uh do we have multiple options answer is yes uh is that a problem why should it be a problem if I’m smart enough to have multiple options you should be admiring

Me you know you shouldn’t be CRI [Laughter] now is is that a problem for other people I don’t think so I don’t think so certainly in this case uh and in that case because look we try to explain what are the different pools and pressures which countries have and uh it’s very

Hard to have a unidimensional relationship now again different countries and different relationships have different history R if I were to look say between the US and Germany uh it is rooted you know there’s a Alliance uh nature to it uh there’s a certain uh history on which that relationship is grounded in our

Case it’s very different so uh I don’t want you to even inadvertently uh give the impression that we are purely and you know unsentimentally transactional we are not uh you know we get along with people we believe in things we share things we agree on some things but uh

You know there are times when uh you know when you’re located in different places have different levels of development uh different uh uh experiences all of that gets into it so life is complicated life is differentiated and I think it’s very important today not to reduce the entire

Complexity of our world into very sweeping propositions I think that era is today behind us uh so I agree very much with what Tony said which is uh good partners provide choices smart Partners take some of those choices uh but sometimes there will be choices on which you say well

You know I think I’ll pass up on that one it’s a very good point um which brings me to uh the bricks and the rise of middle Powers because that is one of uh of the shifts that we see today do to what extent do you think that that is a

Challenge to the west or maybe that can be sort of the bridge especially in a world where we will see continued competition between the US and China and I’m going to ask Minister jar first and but I’d love for both of you to come as well I I thought maybe the

Bricks one you wanted the US after you Jack please but uh look uh again I think it’s important to go back to how it began the bricks started in an era where Western dominance was very strong uh the premier Gathering of the world was the G7 and you had a number of significant

Powers in the world uh who felt that well they were not part of the G7 but maybe they also uh brought value to the table by sitting and discussing with others so in a sense uh you had a collection of these countries it was originally four uh South Africa joined

Later uh and uh uh if you know if you look at it it’s a very interesting group because it’s uh geographically as disparate as it can be uh yet it is bound by the fact that uh these discussions we’ve had over uh a decade and a half have been very useful for all

Of us now like any product you test it in the Market at some point we tested it last year and asked people so how many of you want to join bricks and we got almost 30 countries who were willing to join bricks so clearly if 30 countries

Saw value in it there must be something good we’ve done uh so I I think it’s important today uh to make a distinction being between being non West and anti-west MH I would certainly characterize India as a country uh which is non-west but which has an extremely strong relationship with Western

Countries getting better by the day not everybody else necessarily in that grouping might qualify for that description uh but uh the the contribution The Brick is made you know if one looks at the G7 and how it evolved into the G20 I think in a way those additional 13

Members who came into its bigger grouping uh five of them are bricks members the fact that there was another group which was meeting regularly and discussing and debating I think certainly was a input into the expansion of the g17 G7 into the G G20 so I think

We did a service to the world yeah secretary blinkin I’m tempted to say what my friend said and and leave it at that look the the what we don’t need to do and what we’re not doing is trying to somehow design the world into rigid blocks uh each and every one of the

Issues that we have to deal with and deal with in the interest of the American people may have different Collections and coalitions of countries uh that are that are focused on it that brings certain experiences certain capacities um and I think about it as as variable geometry we’re putting together

A puzzle with collections of countries and and not just countries organizations of different sizes and different shapes to deal with a given problem uh as ji said we have uh and of course the fact that the relationship between our countries I would argue is uh the strongest it’s ever been uh makes no

Difference that uh India happens to be a leading member of bricks uh we’re a leading member of the the G7 we have the G20 and we have a multiplicity of things that we’re doing together every single day in different uh ways of organizing ourselves uh India and the United States

Working together uh in Aus uh working together I mean in excuse me in the quad working together in uh a variety of other uh fora uh all of this goes to the point that the the the complexity and the multiplicity of the challenges we have demands that we find different ways

To to work together and this shouldn’t be done on an exclusive basis um look our default of course is to work in the first instance with uh fellow democracies that’s only normal and natural but we are not only willing we are actively working with any country that wants to solve a particular problem

And wants to do so uh within the context of a a rules-based order that’s the way we approach things speaking of a rule B based order um major Powers today are criticized for sort of upholding the rule based order and upholding values in certain uh areas

But not um in others and a lot of people around the world and particularly in the in the global South but I would say not only in the global South even within um uh our our Western democracies are confused um they look at what’s happening in Gaza and at the intensity

Of uh The Killing and they ask where are human rights where are these Western values I’m sure you you’re having here today and yesterday a lot of a lot of similar discussions uh Minister be Brook yes and they are so productive because many of them are not only speed

Dating but behind closed doors very trustfully and I think the most important job uh for those who believe in a rules-based international order be it politicians uh be it journalists be it citizens is to not be pushed into this speed dating into this uh black and white World in all our uh bubbles

Because easily and this is a double standard uh question yeah if you only look and you mentioned the situation in Gaza if I only see the whole time on YouTube what’s happening in Gaza and I do that every second day every day I cannot stand it because otherwise I I

Couldn’t get out of my bed anymore yeah your reality is obviously the only thing what we can and have to do right now is to go in a total ceasefire to rescue this innocent children dying there every day yeah so and you’re 100% right by that but the

Question is to really come to this reality is to force myself not myself but all these person are saying this is the moral right thing to do to then also asked so how do we come to that and this is then when some might ask so why you

German for Minister didn’t call for immediate ceasefire um uh the last month ago because I also looked at the other side at the other YouTube videos at the other bubbles yeah where we saw I saw four days after the 7th of October I didn’t even see it I spoke to the father

Whose wife and two little girls had been kidnapped by terrorist from high mass I saw the video where women have been not only raped but murdered afterwards and in that moment for me it was clear again that we can also not only relate to the Past saying okay we know how

Negotiations about uh with terrorists are working because if you saw that video and if you were ready to see this woman suffering there you understand that this is not only a military logic because those people who are doing this raping a woman and killing her afterwards they don’t want to exchange

Soldiers or political prisoners they enjoy slaughtering women I’m saying that because I think this is really important bringing it down to the people because then you understand in this kind of situation how do we come now to a ceasefire that the release of hostages the release of these women is crucial

Because otherwise we can never save the children in Gaza so this comes all back to what my dear colleague Jena has said if we’re not capable of stepping out of right or wrong yes or no black or white we will in this world of dilemmas never

Do what our job I would say the three of us here is to do all the best to rescue um people and this is why we have been working so intensively for those Partners Arab Partners in the last three months to see how we can to come together for the most important point

Right now freeing the hostages having a humanitarian course to bring in humanitarian support uh into Gaza and not stopping even though the headlines are there every day you cannot fix it anyhow I think the biggest favor for those who do not care for human rights and the international order is that we

Are giving up and that we are not being ready to look at these different uh topics from our different uh side and this is why at least uh for me I would say for all the three of of us use our competences use our channels we are having and there’s again diversity is

Beneficial if we are not all the same but if we are trying to solve uh this horrible war in the Middle East from our different perspectives then we can also bring security both for the people uh in uh Israel and the people uh in Gaza I have to say I I fully

Subscribe fully subscribe to everything that analena said and I think is people in positions for a brief period of time of responsibility but also and maybe foremost as human beings as mothers fathers children brothers and sisters we’re intensely driven to try to prevent or stop human suffering including the suffering of men

Women and children in Gaza the question is how to do it most effectively and how to take account of the incredible complexity that analena just outlined so well but there’s another element to this that we have a responsibility to do something about the greatest poison in our common well is

Dehumanization and we see that in all directions and if you lose sight of the humanity of someone else then your heart is hardened to a point where anything is acceptable and anything is possible part of our responsibility is to do what we can to push back to avoid to call out

Dehumanization wherever it’s coming from in whatever Direction because if we can’t get at that it’s very hard if not impossible to do other things one one of the criticism that I think I’m sure you you hear a lot is um US policy has of course shifted in

In the last couple of months but yet you want the fighting to stop but there is no sign whatsoever that you’re not willing to send weapons to Israel for example so that also confuses people you know when they look when they look at the rhetoric versus the action what

Would you say to that well first we’re committed to Israel security that’s been clear from day one uh it remains clear and we understand and support the proposition that Israel has to uh find ways to make sure that what happened on October 7th never happens again so we start there but we’ve we’ve

Also said and not only said we’ve acted on the proposition that of course the way Israel does that matters profoundly uh the way it does it in terms of trying to ensure greater protection for civilians who are caught in a crossfire of Hamas is making that’s absolutely essential making sure that people in

Need get the assistance they need we are working on this every single day and as we’ve seen this evolve over the last four months um things have happened as a result of our engagement our intervention that I would say probably would not have happened almost certainly wouldn’t have happen without it but it’s

Not enough it’s insufficient and that’s why we’re at it almost literally 24 hours a day may I add something on that because for the full picture and this is what we are discussing and this is a good thing in this horrible times I’m always trying to see the glimpse of Hope

At the Horizon the good thing is that over the last three months yeah all these discussions were helpful in a way first we didn’t have any humanitarian support now we have at least a few trucks not enough trucks but also from the other understanding and this is

Why I totally agree with the security guarantees for Israel you cannot just say we need a ceasefire and the Israeli government the IDF has to stop and then we just wait and see what happens to the regrouping of Hamas no we have to give an answer to both legitimate security

Concerns so our part of discussion is for example in the north yeah if people go back to the north how do we as an international Community secure that Hamas is not group regrouping there using misusing against civilians as human protection shield and this is also part of our common International Security response uh

Minister what what is the the view from uh from India what would you if if you had uh some advice for your colleagues what would you be what would you tell them well I I don’t have advice from my colleagues though I particularly I think all of us follow the enormous efforts

Which Tony is putting in right now uh but uh look the way we look at it uh there are different dimensions different elements to this number one we must be clear that what happened on October 7th was terrorism no caveats no justification no explanation it was terrorism number two uh as Israel

Response it is important that Israel should be should have been uh very mindful of Civilian casualties uh that uh it has an obligation to observe International humanitarian law uh number three uh the return of hostages is today imperative uh number four there is an need for a humanitarian Corridor a

Sustainable humanitarian Corridor to provide relief and eventually there has to be uh a permanent fix a long-term fix otherwise we’re going to see a recurrence and I think today uh suddenly India has long uh believed in a two-state solution we have uh maintained that position for many decades and I

Think today many more countries in the world uh today feel uh not just the two State solution is necessary but it is more urgent uh than it was before let me take a couple of questions uh I think there’s a fil in there and then there

And there okay three let’s take uh let’s take the all three questions actually we’ll take four questions very quickly for is here yes for is there um Natalie toi roome um a question in fact both the secretary blinkin and uh foreign minister Bok um I mean the logic of the argument of being

Somewhat reticent on pushing for a ceasefire uh as far as I understand is basically that of saying well one needs to make sure that what happened on the 7th of October does not happen again and so the question that I ask you is do you think that what is happening now what

Has happened over the last four months uh will actually reduce the chances of what happened on the 7th of October happening again will it actually make Israel more secure or not um okay so there’s okay so I I thought that question was that that side but okay

Okay thank you very much Alexi Gan member of the parliament of Ukraine secretary blinkin you said those who are not at the table are in the menu Ukraine was at the table in Budapest when we voluntarily gave up our nuclear weaponry now we are in the menu so the question

Is uh what is the way for us we are confronted with a nuclear power you either we will become member of NATO aliance with a nuclear power or we should restore our nuclear status I don’t see any other option what option do you prefer and what you will answer

On this thank you very much okay uh there’s a question here a question there and then we’ll do one round would that be okay yes I mean I’m I have that yeah here we go thank you uh my name is Shafi gam from Egypt my question is to secretary blinken you’ve

Invested an incredible amount of time trying to bring uh a settlement in the issue of Gaza uh and at the very same time we all feel in the region that things can spill over in a very dramatic way especially there are many excuses of why not to

Have a solution but to do things step by step that is not going to work so my question to you is Sir why with all the countries including the United States including the UK just what Cameroon has just said proclaiming a two-state solution is not something the United

States puts on the floor now okay and be able to achieve that thank you thank you uh finally there’s a question there and then I’m afraid I have a loud voice I didn’t I don’t need a microphone hello my name is masi alad I’m an Iranian uh

Troublemaker for molas and I have a simple question we cannot talk about Global Security by forgetting about Iran by burying the human rights abuse under the carpet I’m here today with a woman who was in the front line of last year Uprising he was she was shot in her eyes

She lost her eyes because of the Revolutionary guards so my question is very clear how we can reach to peace and Security in the world without designating the Revolutionary guards as a terrorist organization which the United State of America did that thanks but why the Allies are not following the

United States the Democratic countries are not as United as autocracy because Islamic Republic is helping Putin is helping uh Hamas all the proxies in Yemen so as we see unfortunately dictators are more united than uh Democratic countries do you have any common strategy to isolate Islamic

Republic and address h and his gang of killer the way that you address Putin thank you so [Applause] much all to all three of you you can pick the question you want to answer I know one was directed uh a couple were directed at secretary uh blinken so

Maybe maybe you start good yeah uh so to the question uh is Israel more secure now after four months after October 7th um I think the answer is in the in the near- term in the immediate yes it is in terms of dealing with the immediate threat the horrific terrorist group that

Attacked it in the most unimaginable ways on October 7th is it more secure for the long term that’s a different question uh because the fundamental question we have to ask ourselves is and J mentioned this how do we make sure that the cycle one way or another doesn’t repeat itself whether

It’s a year from now 5 years from now or 10 years from now I think there’s an extraordinary opportunity before Israel in the months ahead to actually once and for all end uh that cycle and it’s because there’s some new facts that didn’t exist before when there were

Efforts to make peace between Israelis and Palestinians starting with the fact that virtually every Arab country now genuinely wants to integrate Israel into the region to normalize relations if they haven’t already done so to provide security assurances uh and commitments so that Israel can feel uh more safe and

More secure at the same time uh there are genuine efforts underway led by Arab countries to reform Revitalize revamp the Palestinian Authority so that it can be more effective in representing the interests of the Palestinian people and could be uh a better partner uh for Israel in uh that future and there’s

Also I think the imperative that uh that Jai mentioned uh that’s more urgent than ever to proceed to a Palestinian State one that also ensures the security of Israel and makes the necessary commitments to do so if you put all of that together you have an integrated region where people are actually working

Together for the common good a region in which Israel is secure in ways that it’s never been before and where the number one threat to its security as well as to the security of many of us just alluded to in the last question Iran is isolated along with all of its

Proxies that that future that path is there it’s clear it’s hard it’s complicated but it’s real the alternative is an endless repetition of the cycle that we’ve seen year after year decade after decade generation after generation it’s incumbent upon all of us who have relationships with and responsibility uh

For uh different countries in the uh in the region uh things that we bring to the table ourselves to make the hard decisions do the difficult things to actually make make that path clear real and one that whose attraction is overwhelmingly powerful I think the

More we’re able to do that and the more we distinguish between that path and the alternative the greater the chance we’ll actually see movement in that direction um I’ll say just very quickly on um on Ukraine I think you’ve heard throughout this conference including by the fact that we have a an extraordinary

Delegation from the United States Congress here Republicans Democrats Senate house that there is enduring support for Ukraine and that’s not just from the United States it’s from country after country in Europe and well beyond uh for a whole variety of reasons starting of course with the aggression that ukrainians have suffered but also

Because that aggression has gone to the very principles at the heart of the International System that each of us has a stake in preserving and that’s not going away so there’s a tremendous determination on the part of dozens of countries to do two things first to make sure that Ukraine has what

It needs to deal in the immediate with the ongoing Russian aggression but second to put Ukraine on a path where increasingly in the months and years to come it’s able to stand strongly on its own two feet militarily economically dipl and democratically that is the strongest possible rebuke to Putin it’s the

Strongest possible rebuke to all those who would seek to undermine Ukraine and I’ll I’ll I’ll just conclude uh with this the real lesson to be drawn from what we’ve seen including as you rightly said uh Russia tearing up uh and then spitting on the Budapest meor memorandum

Among many many other agreements is that this aggression against Ukraine has been an absolute strategic debacle for Vladimir Putin and for Russia Russia is weaker militarily it’s weaker economically it’s weaker diplomatically Europe has ended its energy dependence on Russia in the space of two years ukrainians are more united than they’ve

Ever been including against Russia which was not the case certainly in in 2014 not desirable but it’s a result of Russia’s actions uh and certainly uh since um uh 2022 uh we have the NATO alliance a defensive alliance with no intent of ever attacking Russia only there to

Defend its members that is now stronger and larger all of this a result of actions that Russia has taken precipitating the very things it said it wanted to prevent so I think as those lessons are digested not to mention the horrific losses that Russia has suffered as a result of Vladimir Putin throwing

Its young men into meat grinder of his own making I think the more those lessons are digested uh the more you’re going to see that this is not repeated but that requires all of us to maintain the solidarity that we’ve demonstrated with Ukraine a solidarity that is

Important not just for Ukraine but for all of us the stakes couldn’t be higher uh so my belief again listening to everyone here over the last couple of days talking to our members of Congress who are with us is that not only is that support there it will be sustained and

Ukraine will succeed thank you secretary um Minister book well I I guess the the question from Iran was for us so the question was uh why do you not uh follow the example and list um uh uh them as uh uh terrorist in a terrorist sanction uh regime the Revolutionary guard we have

Discuss it quite often but the quick answer is because I’m defending rule of law trying without any double standards and our legal situation in the European Union and you can like it or not but this is how uh in which context we are working in our European legal system uh

We have a sanction uh system for listing under terrorism if terrorism occurs in um another country especially in the European Union it was after the um attacks uh on the W on the 9th of September so we need a legal ground to list them so far we do not have uh the

Evidence and proof that there have been this terrorist attacks in the European Union there were different cases it’s a different legal system in the years but and this is important for me because I hear this argument again and again this is not because we shy away with regard

To the Revolutionary God or the crimes against the women use Civil Society its own population no we use the instruments we are having as a European Union to defend human rights and we set up for the first time in history of the European Union a sanction systems because of human rights

Violation and for me this is even stronger in the past it was the same with Dash and the crimes against jidi women yeah they have been brought to court not slaughtering women not saying these are the worst sexual violence crimes you commit but under terrorism I

Think this is wrong we have to name the crimes and the crime is targeted directly to women directly to Human Rights we say we sanction you because of what you have done to you shooting in your eyes killing your friends killing uh your your sisters and it’s the same

Effects and this it comes all down to me for me politics it’s not about symbolic action it’s about what matters for the people and under this sanction RIS system human rights sanctions from the EU revolutionary guards we named them cannot enter the European un Union we

Have Frozen uh the asset so the result is exactly the same what the EUR the US has done under the terrorist sanction system so if you ask me do we act as a result in the same way yes we do but we call it human rights sanction system

Because these are the worst human rights violations you can see and this comes also back to the other question uh about symbolic politics or what matters in in in reality we would have been at a total different state if after the 7th of October this was a question from Italy

After the 7th of October we could have had a common resolution we were in Cairo at the so-called peace Summit together with different countries many Arab Partners um and also from the European Union we tried to fix a text where we would say okay after this horrible

Crimes of the 7th of October there could be the momentum now for whatever Generations have dreamed of a two-state solution passway but in order to do that we have to guarantee that the 7th of October never happens again to Israel and we have to guarantee that Palestinians have the security to live

In peace and security for them unfortunately those meeting there together not everybody was ready to name the 7th of October what it was a terrorist attack from Hamas on Israeli people and this is why we passed this momentum I regret it but this is how

Life is so now again we have to work again if we now after four months where we see that the current situation only brings misery for everybody if we can regroup again and this is why what we have described before for us it’s so important to work together as European

Union as the US with Arab Partners to find what we need guarantees that Israelis can live forever in security that the 7th of October can never happen again and the same counts for Palestinian people it has to be a irreversible path towards a two-state solution and this is our job which we

Have to do uh right now and we can only do it together with a different partners neither the US definitely not Germany but also not uh one Arab country alone can go this path we have to group and unite together for the peace in the Middle East inshah as they would say in

The Middle East so I just take a minute one minute I think a very large number of countries especially of the global South believe that terrorism shouldn’t be countenanced or Justified but they equally strongly believe that a two-state solution should not be delayed these are not choices these are both

Musts and unless we are able to address both these issues uh we not not going to really solve the problem well thank you uh all I know that we’ve gone overtime so apologies for that and thank you to the [Applause] audience Germany welcome Anthony blinkin Secretary of State the

US nice to have you and sanan jankar minister of external Affairs repu of India I hope uh that based on uh the topic of the session that you will not all agree with each other and we can have some some Sparks uh we we have about 43 minutes and I will prepare your

Questions because um I’ll ask a few questions and then I’ll turn to to the audience Minister B Brock I’m going to start with you um Germany’s national security strategy calls for expanding Global Partnerships um and is quite open about the multipolarity of of the of the world

Today h how do you go about it at a time when there are so many divisions and particularly when increasingly we feel the global South and the Western world are not on the same page well first of all good afternoon very good to have this important session with my dear

Colleagues in a nutshell it’s more important than ever because uh we are not naive obviously there are ruthless actors who don’t don’t want to to grab up the title of our panel and negotiat the slice of the pie but they want to rob the whole Bakery and uh having that

Uh in in mind I believe it’s even more important than ever that those who are at the table negotiating about the slices of the pie stay there first of all Resolute respectfully and also reflective and this is the core also of our national security strategy which we have drafted as a German government

Making very clear in the light of this ruthless war of aggression against Ukraine that we are Resolute in defending international law it’s the best protection for everybody around the world so there is no question about negotiating whether Ukraine has right of self-defense or not we all agreed and

Not only I don’t like that word but western actors we all agreed in our Charter of the United Nations there is the right of self-defense and we all agreed on the universal Declaration of Human Rights having said that obviously we have to be respectful that especially

Within Ukraine and I think this is the lesson we have learned and it was very important to speak to Partners like India and so many around the world Brazil um South Africa we have to be respectful that obviously in this moment when we said we need the whole International Security others asked some

Questions like Where Have You Been when we needed you or ask some question so um actually what does it mean for the future do you also stand with us and this is I would say maybe something new in the attitude at least from our uh foreign politics uh from from from

Europe to say okay we cannot take for granted that everybody just agrees with our European or transatlantic wish and the third part I think it’s the most easy but it’s the strongest asset for de democracies the strength of democracy in my point of view is that we can be self-reflective and self-critical so

Asking in a moment when others for example war of aggression we’re not saying automatically okay we support you not saying why don’t you get it but asking ourself why they cannot support us and I think this is the critical part but the most powerful part and at least again in

Our national security strategy we try to do it talking about for example our colonialism pass understanding why South Africa was mentioning the whole time their ties with Russia in the aparte regime and being self-critical and saying oh yeah not all democracies have stood back in time at their time and

Taking that as something where we said yes we might have made mistake in the past but we cannot change the past we can only change the future together I think this is the strength of multilateralism and we see see around the world the majority believes in it do

You find that increasingly people are questioning more when it comes to let’s stick to Ukraine and and we’ll we’ll get to um to Gaza in a minute but on Ukraine are people coming round to your point of view or are they distancing themselves more well to see it over the last two

Years I mean we’ve seen the 142 voting in their General uh assembly so it is a majority of States because most of the countries in the world like mine we not the biggest country in the world we don’t have the biggest military means and this is for most of the countries

They know that uh the charter of the United Nations the rule of law is their life insurance so we see this big majority there we need see also the support many have traveled and I think this is really important to give always the question of War of aggression or

Human faith it was not that we con convince some other actors in the world but saying now you have to stand with that but when delegation traveled to Kev and not only Kiev to butcha to Yin when they spoke like we did to the parents of those where their child had been

Kidnapped by Russia then we give this situation a human face and that’s all about and this is why it’s so important to not only talk about state but we talk about the people talk about about also the question of the rule of law in front of the international criminal court for

Exaptive bringing crimes against humanity in front of the court and there we see again the majority of the states is pushing for that one um secretary blinkin uh there is a there’s a feeling that um it’s it’s more than a feeling it’s what we see on happening on the

Ground that the US China tensions are leading to Greater fragmentation and that you’re almost competing for you know alliances who’s you know who’s our Ally and we we see this within within the UN and various un institutions uh but we just see it all all around uh the

Globe to what extent do you feel that you you are challenged in your in your travels around the world on the fundamental uh questions well first it’s wonderful to be with my my friends wonderful to be back in Munich at the conference known uh among all of us as

Speed dating for diplomats uh but we um we’ve done a couple things and I’ll come quickly to your question um from the start of this Administration we’ve made an investment a reinvestment in our alliances in our Partnerships and in the multilateral system uh We’ve reinvested we’ve re-engaged we tried to rejuvenate we’ve

Even reimagined and the reason for that is simple it’s because it’s in our interest to do it not a single one of the challeng Alles that we have to face and that are so important to the interest of the American people can we effectively deal with alone as powerful

As resourceful as we are uh and so across the board we’ve seen our comparative advantage as having a strong network of voluntary alliances voluntary Partnerships and if you’re not at the table in the International System you’re going to be on the menu so it was very important for us to re-engage

Multilaterally and we’ve done that when it comes to strategic competition and there’s no doubt that we have one with China there are a few things to be said first we have an obligation to manage that relationship responsibly and I think that’s something that we hear from countries around the world and it’s

Clearly an interest to do so and that’s exactly what President Biden is doing and when it comes to other countries the point is not to say to Country expiry you have to choose the point is to offer a good choice and if we can do that uh

And I believe we can and we have and will continue uh then I think the choice becomes fairly self-evident um over the last six or seven months um we have engaged sub in a sustainable way with uh with China I just met my counterpart wangi here in Munich uh but that follows

A series of uh of meetings notably most importantly President Biden and president shei uh and I think we brought greater stability to the relationship uh not uh moving away from ignoring the fact that yes we have a competition there are areas where we are contesting each other but there are also

Areas where we can and should cooperate because it’s in our interest uh to do that one of the best examples of that is the agreement we with China on fentanyl the single largest the number one killer number one killer of Americans age 18 to 49 is a synthetic opioid fentanyl now we

Have meaningful cooperation from and with China on fentanyl that’s going to make a difference in the lives of Americans and and you think it is sustain able to have cooperation on in some areas climate uh be being one of them but to have a strategic competition the strategic competition that defines

Geopolitics today and that will go on for a very a very long time do you think that that is sustainable that both sides sort of can find Rules of Engagement this is where we compete and this is where we cooperate some some fundamentals haven’t changed countries will act in their self-interest uh where

Part of the question the very fact that we’ve re-engaged and rejuvenated as well as reimagined some of our alliances and Partnerships along with the Investments that we’ve made at home in the United States the Investments we’ve made in our infrastructure the Investments we’ve made in science and technology and chips

The the the building blocks of the 21st century economy the Investments we’ve made in climate technology you put those two things together Investments at home much greater alignment with partners and allies across the board in Europe in the Indo Pacific uh in Asia on how to approach a question as complicated as

You may have called it or somebody else called it all alignment so you can pick and choose alliances but you can also pick and choose topics on Russia for example you still buy Uh Russian oil uh is that is that okay with your uh counterpart from the US everything is

Your your relationship is fine you can do whatever you want whenever you want uh okay first of all uh you’re sitting next to each other no first of all uh delighted uh to be here uh and I couldn’t find a better set of people to

Be with on the stage uh so thank you for whoever put us all together uh your question uh do we have multiple options answer is yes uh is that a problem problem why should it be a problem if I’m smart enough to have multiple options you should be admiring me you know you

Shouldn’t be criticizing now is is that a problem for other people I don’t think so I don’t think so certainly in this case uh and in that case because look we try to explain what are the different pulls and pressures which countries have and uh it’s very hard to have a uni dimension

Relationship now again different countries and different relationships have different histories if I were to look say between the US and Germany uh it is rooted you know there’s a Alliance nature to it uh there’s a certain uh history on which that relationship is grounded in our

You know I think I’ll pass up on that one it’s a very good point um which brings me to uh the bricks and the rise of midle powers because that is one of uh of the shifts that we see today do to what extent do you think that that is a

Bricks one you wanted the US after you Jack please but uh look uh again I think it’s important to go back to how it began the brick started in an era where Western dominance was very strong uh the premier Gathering of the world was the G7 and you had a number of significant

Later uh and uh uh if you know if you look at it it’s a very interesting group because it’s geographically as disparate as it can be uh yet it is bound by the fact that uh these discussions we’ve had over uh a decade and a half have been very useful

For all of us now like any product you test it in the Market at some point we tested it last year and asked people so how many of you want to join bricks and we got almost 30 countries who were willing to join bricks so clearly 30

Countries saw value in it there must be something good we’ve done uh so I I think it’s important today uh to make a distinction being between being non-west and anti-west mhm I would certainly characterize India as a country uh which is non-west but which has an extremely strong relationship with Western

Countries getting better by the day not everybody else necessarily in that grouping might qualify for that description uh but uh the the contribution the bricks has made you know if one looks at the G7 and how it evolved into the G20 I think in a way those additional 13

Service to the world yeah secretary blink I’m tempted to say what my friend said and and leave it at that look the the what we don’t need to do and what we’re not doing is trying to somehow design the world into rigid blocks uh each and every one of the

Issues that we have to deal with and deal with in the interest of the American people may have different Collections and coalitions of countries uh that are that are focused on it that bring certain experiences certain capacities um and I think about it as as variable geometry we’re putting together

To to work together and they shouldn’t be done on exclusive basis um look our default of course is to work in the first instance with fellow democracies that’s only normal and natural but we are not only willing we are actively working with any country that wants to

Solve a particular problem and wants to do so uh within the context of a a rules-based order that’s the way we approach things speaking of a rule B based order um major Powers today are criticized for sort of upholding the rule based order and upholding values in certain uh areas

Of uh the killing and they ask where are human rights where are these Western values I’m sure you you’re having here today and yesterday a lot of a lot of similar discussions uh Minister be Brook yes and they are so productive because many of them are not only speed

Dating but behind closed doors very trustfully and I think the most important job uh for those who believe in a rules-based international order politicians uh be it journalists be it citizens is to not be pushed into this speed dating into this uh black and white World in all our uh bubbles

Couldn’t get out of my bed anymore yeah your reality is obviously the only thing what we can and have to do right now is to go in a total ceasefire to rescue these innocent children dying there every day yeah so and you’re 100% right by that but the

German for Minister didn’t call for immediate ceasefire um uh the last months ago because I also looked at the other side at the other YouTube videos at the other bubbles yeah where we saw I Saw 4 days after the 7th of October I didn’t even

See it I spoke to the father whose wife and two little girls had been kidnapped by terrorists from high mass I saw the video where women have been not only raped but murdered afterwards and in that moment for me it was clear again that we can also not only relate to the

Past saying okay we know how negotiations about uh with terrorists are working because if you saw that video and if you were ready to see this women’s suffering there you understand that this is not only a military logic because those people who are doing this raping a woman and killing her

Afterwards they don’t want to exchange soldiers or political prisoners they enjoy slaughtering women I’m saying that because I think this is really important bringing it down to the people because then you understand in this kind of situation how do we come now to a ceasefire that the release of hostages

The release of these women is crucial because otherwise we can never save the children in Gaza so this comes all back to what my dear colleague Jenka has said if we’re not capable of stepping out of right or wrong yes or no black or white we will in this world of dilemmas never

Right now freeing the hostages having a humanitarian pause to bring in humanitarian support into Gaza and not stopping even though the headlines are there every day you cannot fix it anyhow I think the biggest favor for those who do not care for human rights and the international order is that we are

Giving up and that we are not being ready to look at these different uh topics from a white different uh side and this is why at least uh for me I would say for all the three of us use our competences use our channels we are having and there’s again diversity is

Beneficial if we are not all the same but if we are trying to solve this horrible war in the Middle East from our different perspectives then we can also bring security both for the people uh in uh Israel and the people uh in Gaza I have to say I I fully

Subscribe fully subscribe to everything that analena has said and I think as people in positions for a brief period of time of responsibility but also and maybe foremost as human beings as mothers fathers children brothers and sisters we’re intensely driven to to try to prevent or stop human suffering including the suffering

Of men women and children in Gaza the question is how to do it most effectively and how to take account of the incredible complexity that analena just outlined so well but there’s another element to this that we have a responsibility to do something about the greatest poison in our common well is dehumanization

And we see that in all directions and if you lose sight of the humanity of someone else then your heart is hardened to a point where anything is acceptable and anything is possible part of our responsibility is to do what we can to push back to avoid to call out

We’ve we’ve also said and not only said we’ve acted on the proposition that of course the way Israel does that matters profoundly uh the way it does it in terms of trying to ensure greater protection for civilians who are caught in a crossfire of hamas’s making that’s absolutely essential making sure that

People in need get the assistance they need we are working on this every single day and as we’ve seen this evolve over the last four months um things have happened as a result of our engagement our intervention that I would say probably would not have happened almost certainly wouldn’t have happened

Without it but it’s not enough it’s insufficient and that’s why we’re at it almost literally 24 hours a day may add something on that because for the full picture and this is what we are discussing and this is a good thing in these horrible times I’m always trying

To see the glimpse of Hope at the Horizon the good thing is that over the last three months yeah all these discussions were helpful in a way first we didn’t have any humanitarian support now we have at least a few trucks not enough trucks but also from the other

Understanding and this is why I totally agree with the security guarantees for Israel you cannot just say we need a ceasefire and the Israeli government the IDF has to stop and then we just wait and see what happens to the regrouping of Hamas no we have to give an answer to

Both legitimate security concerns so our part of discussion is for example in the north yeah if people go back to the north how do we as an International Community secure that Hamas is not group regrouping there using misusing against civilians as human protection shield and this is also part of our common

International Security response uh Minister J what what is the the view from uh from India what would you if if you had uh some advice for your colleagues what would you be what would you tell them well I don’t have advice from my colleagues though I particularly I think

All of us follow the enormous efforts which Tony is putting in right now uh but uh look the way we look at it uh there are different dimensions different elements to this number one we must be clear that what happened on October 7th was terrorism no caveats no justification no explanation it was

Terrorism number two uh as Israel response it is important that Israel should be should have been uh very mindful of Civilian casualties uh that uh it has an obligation to observe International humanitarian law uh number three uh the return of hostages is today imperative uh number four there is a

Need for a humanitarian Corridor a sustainable humanitarian Corridor to provide relief and eventually there has to be a a permanent fix a long-term fix otherwise we’re going to see a recurrence and I think today uh suddenly India has long uh believed in a two-state solution we have uh maintained

That position for many decades and I think today many more countries in the world uh today feel uh not just that the two-state solution is necessary but it is more urgent uh than it was before let me take a couple of questions uh I think there’s a Filman there and then there

And there okay three let’s take uh let’s take the all three questions actually we’ll take four questions very quickly for is here yes for is there uh Natalie to She Wrote um a question in fact both the secretary blinkin and uh foreign minister Bok um I

Mean the logic of the argument of being somewhat reticent on pushing for a ceasefire uh as far as I understand is basically that of saying well one needs to make sure that what happened on the 7th of October does not happen again and so the question that I ask you is do you

Think that what is happening now what has happened over the last four months uh will actually reduce the chances of what happened on the 7th of October happening again will it actually make Israel more secure or not um okay so there’s okay so I I thought that

Question was that that side but okay yeah thank you very much Alexi Gan member of the parliament of Ukraine secretary blinkin you said those who are not at the table are in the menu Ukraine was at the table in Budapest when we voluntarily gave up our nuclear weaponry

Now we are in the menu so the question is uh what is the way for us we are confronted with a nuclear power either we will become member of NATO aliens with a nuclear power or we should restore our nuclear status I don’t see any other option what option do you

Prefer and what you will answer on this thank you very much okay uh there’s a question here a question there and then we’ll do one round would that be okay yes I mean I’m I have said yeah here we gok you uh my name is Shafi gabram from

Egypt my question is to secretary blinken you’ve invested an incredible amount of time trying to bring uh a settlement in the issue of Gaza uh and at the very same time we all feel in the region that things can spill over in a very dramatic way especially

There are many excuses us es of why not to have a solution but to do things step by step that is not going to work so my question to you is Sir why with all the countries including the United States including the UK just what Cameroon has just said proclaiming a two-state

Solution is not something the United States puts on the floor now okay and be able to achieve that thank you thank you uh finally there’s a question there and then I’m afraid I have a loud voice I I don’t need a microphone hello my name is masi alad I’m an Iranian uh

She lost her eyes because of the Revolutionary CS so my question is very clear how we can reach to peace and Security in the world without designating the Revolutionary guards as a terrorist organization which the United State of America did that thanks but why the Allies are not following the

United States the Democratic countries are not as United as autocracy because Islamic Republic is helping Putin is helping uh Hamas all the proxies in Yemen so as we see unfortunately dict ERS are more united than uh Democratic countries do you have any common strategy to isolate Islamic Republic and

Address H and his gang of killer the way that you address Putin thank you so [Applause] much Al to all three of you you can pick the question you want to answer I know one was directed uh a couple were directed at secretary uh blinken so

Maybe maybe you start good yeah uh so to the question uh is Israel more secure now after 4 months after October 7th um I think the answer is in the in the near term in the immediate yes it is in terms of dealing with the immediate threat the horrific terrorist group that

It’s the year from now 5 years from now or 10 years from now I think there’s an extraordinary opportunity before Israel in the months ahead to actually once and for all end uh that cycle and it’s because there’s some new facts that didn’t exist before when there were

More secure at the same time uh there are genuine efforts underway led by Arab countries to reform Revitalize revamp the Palestinian Authority so that it can be more effective in representing the interests of the Palestinian people and could be a better partner for Israel in uh that future and there’s also I think

The imperative that uh the Jai mentioned uh that’s more urgent than ever to proceed to a Palestinian State one that also ensures the security of Israel and makes the necessary commitments to do so if you put all of that together you have an integrated region where people are actually working together for

The common good a region in which Israel is secure in ways that it’s never been before and where the number one threat to its security as well as the security of many of us just alluded to in the last question Iran is isolated along with all of its

For uh different countries in the uh in the region uh things that we bring to to the table ourselves to make the hard decisions M do the difficult things to actually make that path clear real and one that whose attraction is overwhelmingly powerful I think the

Sure that Ukraine has what it needs to deal in the immediate with the ongoing Russian aggression but second to put Ukraine on a path where increasingly in the months and years to come it’s able to stand strongly on its own two feet militarily economically diplom and democratically that is the strongest

Possible rebuke to Putin it’s the strongest possible rebuke to all those who would seek to undermine Ukraine and I’ll I’ll I’ll just conclude uh with this the real lesson to be drawn from what we’ve seen including as you rightly said uh Russia tearing up uh and then spitting on the Budapest meor memorandum

Ever been including against Russia which was not the case certainly in in 2014 not desirable but it’s a result of Russia’s actions uh and certainly uh since um 2022 uh we have the NATO alliance a defensive alliance with no intent of ever attacking Russia only there to

Its young men into a meat grinder of his own making I think the more those lessons are digested uh the more you’re going to see that this is not repeated but that requires all of us to maintain the solidarity that we’ve demonstrated with Ukraine a solidarity that is

Ukraine will succeed thank you secretary um Minister barbook well I I guess the the question from Iran was for us so the question was uh why do you not uh follow the example and list um uh uh them as uh terrorist in a terrorist sanction uh regime the Revolutionary guard we have

Discussed it quite often but the quick answer is because I’m defending rule of law trying without any double standards and our legal situation in the European Union and you can like it or not but this is how uh in which context we are working in our European legal system uh

We have a sanction system for listing under terrorism if terrorism occurs in in um another country especially in the European Union it was after the um attacks uh on the US on the 9th of September so we need a legal ground to list them so far we do not have uh the

Evidence and proof that there have been these terrorist attacks in the European Union there were different cases it’s a different legal system in the years but and this is important for me because I hear this argument again and again this is not because we shy away with regard

To the revolutionary G or the crimes against the women use Civil Society its own population no we use the instruments we are having as a European Union to defend human rights and we set up for the first time in history of the European Union as sanction systems because of human rights violation and

For me this is even stronger in the past it was the same with Dash and the crimes against jidi women yeah they have been brought to court not slaughtering women not saying these are the worst sexual violence crimes you commit but under terrorism I think this is wrong we have

To name the crimes and the crime is targeted directly to women directly to Human Rights we say we sanction you because of what you have done to you shooting in your eyes killing your friends killing uh your your sisters and it’s the same effects and this it comes

All down to me for me politics it’s not about symbolic action it’s about what matters for the people and under this sanction R system human rights sanctions from the EU revolutionary guards we named them cannot enter the European un Union we have Frozen uh the asset so the

Result is exactly the same what the EUR the US has done under the terrorist sanction system so if you ask me do we act as a result in the same way yes we do but we call it human rights system because these are the worst human rights

Violations you can see and this comes also back to the other question about symbolic politics or what matters in in in reality we would have been at a total different state if after the 7th of October this was a question from Italy after the 7th of October we could have

Had a common resolution we were in Cairo at the so-called peace Summit together with different countries many Arab partners um and also from the European Union we tried to fix a text where we would say okay after this horrible Crimes of the 7th of October there could be the momentum now for whatever

Generations have dreamed of a two-state solution pathway but in order to do that we have to guarantee that the 7th of October never happens again to Israel and we have to guarantee that Palestinians have the security to live in peace and security for them unfortunately those meeting there

Together not every everybody was ready to name the 7th of October what it was a terrorist attack from Hamas on Israeli people and this is why we passed this momentum I regret it but this is how life is so now again we have to work again if we now after four months where

We see that the current situation only brings misery for everybody if we can regroup again and this is why what we have described before for us it’s so important to work together as European Union as the US with Arab Partners to find what we need guarantees that Israelis can live forever in security

That the 7th of October can never happen again and the same counts for Palestinian people it has to be a irreversible path towards a two-state uh solution and this is our job which we have to do uh right now and we can only do it together with a different partners

Neither the US definitely not Germany but also not uh one Arab country alone can go this path we have to group and unite together for the peace in the Middle East inshah as they would say in the midle East so I just take a minute one minute I think a very large number

Of countries especially of the global South believe that terrorism shouldn’t be countenanced or Justified but they equally strongly believe that a two-state solution should not be delayed these are not choices these are both musts and unless we are able to address both these issues uh we are not going to

Really uh solve the problem well thank you uh all I know that we’ve gone over time so apologies for that and thank you to the [Applause] audience for Germany welcome Anthony blinkin Secretary of State us nice to have you and suban jankar minister of external Affairs repu of India

I hope uh that based on uh the topic of the session that you will not all agree with each other and we can have some some Sparks uh we we have about 43 minutes and I will prepare your questions because um I’ll ask a few questions and then I’ll turn to to the

Audience Minister bbok I’m going to start with you um Germany’s national security strategy calls for expanding Global Partnerships um um and is quite open about the multipolarity of of the of the world today h how do you go about it at a time when there are so many divisions and

Particularly when increasingly we feel the global South and the Western world are not on the same page well first of all good afternoon very good to have this important session with my dear colleagues in a Nell it’s more important than ever because we are not naive obviously there are ruthless actors who

Don’t want to to grab up the title of our panel and negotiates the slice of the pie but they want to rob the whole Bakery and uh having that uh in in mind I believe it’s even more important than ever that those who are at the table

Negotiating about the slices of the pie stay there first of all resolute respectfully and also reflective and this is the core also of our national security strategy which we have drafted as a German government making very clear in the light of this ruthless war of aggression against Ukraine that we are

Resolute in defending international law it’s the best protection for everybody around the world so there is no question about negotiating whether Ukraine has right of self-defense or not we all agreed and not only I don’t like that word but western actors we all agreed in our Charter of the United Nations there

Is the right of self-defense and we all agreed on the universal Declaration of Human Rights having said that obviously we have to be respectful that especially within Ukraine and I think this is the lesson we have learned and it was very important to speak to Partners like

India and so many around the world Brazil um South Africa we have to be respectful that obviously in the this moment when we said we need the whole International Security others asked some questions like where have you been when we needed you or ask some question so um

Our European or transatlantic take a wish and the third part I think it’s the most easy but it’s the strongest asset for democracies the strength of democracy in my point of view is that we can be self-reflective and self-critical so asking in a moment when others for example war of aggression we’re not

Colonialism pass understanding why South Africa was mentioning the whole time their ties with Russia in the aparte regime and being self-critical and saying oh yeah not all democracies have stood back in time at their time and taking that as something where we said yes we might have made mistake in the

Past but we cannot change the past we can only change the future together I think this is the strength of multilateralism and we see around the world the majority believes in it do you find that increasingly people are questioning more when it comes to let’s stick to Ukraine and and we’ll we’ll get

To um to Gaza in a minute but on Ukraine are people coming around to your point of view or are they distancing themselves more well to see it over the last two years I mean we’ve seen the 142 voting in their General uh assembly so it is a

Majority of States because most of the countries in the world like mine we’re not the biggest country in the world we don’t have the biggest military means and this is for most of the countries they know that uh the charter of the United Nations the rule of law is their

Life insurance so we see this big majority there we need see also the support many have have traveled and I think this is really important to give always the question of War of aggression a human facei it was not that we could convince some other actors in the world

But saying now you have to stand with that but when delegation traveled to Kev and not only KV to butcha to Yin when they spoke like we did to the parents of those where their child had been kidnapped by Russia then we give this uation a human face and that’s all about

And this is why it’s so important to not only talk about state but we talk about the people talk about also the question of the rule of law in front of the international criminal court for exaptive bringing crimes against humanity in front of the court and there

That you’re almost competing for you know alliances who’s you know who’s our Ally and we we see this within within the UN in various un institutions uh but we just see it all all around uh the globe to what extent do you feel that you you are challenged in your in your

I’ll come quickly to your question um from the start of this Administration we’ve made an investment a reinvestment in our alliances in our Partnerships and in the multilateral system uh We’ve reinvested we’ve re-engaged we tried to rejuvenate we’ve even reimagined and the reason for that is simple it’s because it’s in our

Have one with China there are a few things to be said first we have an obligation to manage that relationship responsibly and I think that’s something that we hear from countries around the world and it’s clearly an interest to do so and that’s exactly what President

Biden is doing and when it comes to other countries the point is not to say to country XY or Z you have to choose the point is to offer a good choice and if we can do that uh and I believe we can and we have and will continue uh

Then I think the choice becomes fairly self-evident um over the last six or seven months um we have engaged sub in a sustainable way with uh with China I just met my counterpart wangi here in Munich uh but that follows a series of uh of meetings notably most most importantly President Biden and

President she uh and I think we brought greater stability to the relationship uh not uh moving away from ignoring the fact that yes we have a competition there are areas where we are contesting each other but there are also areas where we can and should cooperate

Because it’s in our interest uh to do that one of the best examples of that is the agreement we with China on fentanyl the single largest the number one killer number one killer of Americans at age 18 to 49 is a synthetic opioid fentanyl now we have meaningful cooperation from and

With China on F all that’s going to make a difference in the lives of Americans and and you think it is sustainable to have cooperation on in some areas climate uh be being one of them but to have a strategic competition the strategic competition that defines geopolitics today and that will go on

For a very a very long time do you think that that is sustainable that both sides sort of can find rules of engagement this is where we compete and this is where we cooperate some some fundamentals haven’t changed countries will act in their self-interest uh where

We have to compete we will where we have to contest we will where it makes sense to cooperate we will and I think you can do uh all of the above at the same time but there’s something else that’s um I think changed and it goes back to the first part of the

Question the very fact that we’ve re-engaged and rejuvenated as well as reimagined some of our alliances and Partnerships along with the in inv Ms that we’ve made at home in the United States the Investments we’ve made in our infrastructure the Investments we’ve made in science and technology and chips

The the the building blocks of the 21st century economy the Investments we’ve made in climate technology you put those two things together Investments at home much greater alignment with partners and allies across the board in Europe in the indopacific uh in Asia on how to approach a question as complicated as

Your your relationship is fine you can do whatever you want whenever you want uh okay first of all uh I mean you’re sitting next to each other no first of all uh delighted uh to be here uh and I couldn’t find a better set of

People to be with on the stage uh so thank you for whoever put us all together uh your question uh do we have multiple options answer is yes uh is that a problem why should it be a problem if I’m smart enough to have multiple options you should be admiring

Me you know you shouldn’t be criticizing now is is that a problem for other people I don’t think so I don’t think so certainly in this case uh and in that case because look we try to explain what are the different pulls and pressures which countries have and uh

It’s very hard to have a unidimensional relationship now again different countries and different relationships have different histories if I were to look say between the US and Germany uh it is rooted you know there’s a Alliance nature to it uh there’s a certain uh history on which that relationship is grounded in our

You know there are times when uh you know when you’re located in different places have different levels of development uh different uh uh experience all of that gets into it so life is complicated life is differentiated and I think it’s very important today not to reduce the entire complexity of our

World into very sweeping propositions I think that era is today behind us uh so I agree very much with what Tony said which is uh good partners provide choices smart Partners take some of those choices uh but sometimes there will be choices on which you say well

You know I think I’ll pass up on that one it’s a very good point um which brings me to uh the bricks and the rise of mle powers because that is one of uh of the shifts that we see today do to what extent do you think that that is a

Powers in the world uh who felt that well they were not part of the G7 but uh maybe they also uh brought value to the table by sitting and discussing with others so in a sense uh you had a collection of these countries it was originally four uh South Africa joined

Of us now like any product you test it in the Market at some point we tested it last year and asked people so how many of you want to join join bricks and we got almost 30 countries who were willing to join bricks so clearly if 30

Countries saw value in it there must be something good we’ve done uh so I I think it’s important today uh to make a distinction being between being non-west and anti-west MH I would certainly characterize India as a country uh which is non-west but which has an extremely strong relationship ship with Western

Members who came into his bigger grouping uh five of them are bricks members the fact that there was another group which was meeting regularly and discussing and debating I think certainly was a input into the expansion of the G7 G7 into the G G20 so I think

Uh a puzzle with collections of countries and and not just countries organizations of different sizes and different shapes to deal with a given problem uh as ji said we have uh and of course the fact that the relationship between our countries I would argue is the strongest it’s ever been uh makes no

To to work together and this shouldn’t be done on an exclusive basis um look our default of course is to work in the first instance with fellow democracies that’s only normal and natural but we are not only willing we are actively working with any country that wants to

Solve a particular problem and wants to do so uh within the context of a a rules-based order that’s the way we approach things speaking speaking of a rule B based order um major Powers today are criticized for sort of upholding the rule based order and upholding values in certain uh areas

But not um in others and a lot of people around the world and particularly in the in the global South but I would say not only in the global sou even within um uh our our Western democracies are confused um they look at what’s happening in Gaza

And at the intensity of uh The Killing and they ask where are human rights where are these Western values I’m sure you you’re having here today and yesterday a lot of a lot of similar discussions uh Minister be Brook yes and they are so productive because many of them are not only speed

Question is to really come to this reality is to force myself not myself but all these person are saying this is a moral right thing to do to then also ask so how do we come to that and this is then when some might ask so why you German for

Minister didn’t call for immediate ceasefire um uh the last months ago because I also looked at the other side at the other YouTube videos at the other bubbles yeah where we saw I saw four days after the 7th of October I didn’t even see it I spoke to the father whose

Wife and two little girls had been kidnapped by terrorist from high mass I saw the video where women have been not only raped but murdered afterwards and in that moment for me it was clear again that we can also not only relate to the Past saying okay we know how

Negotiations about uh with terrorists are working because if you saw that video and if you were ready to see this woman suffering there you understand that this is not only a military logic because those people who are doing this raping a women and killing her afterwards they don’t want to exchange

Soldiers or political prisoners they enjoy slaughtering women I’m saying that because I think this is really important bringing it down to the people because then you understand in this kind of situation how do we come now to the ceasefire that the release of hostages the release of these women is crucial

Because otherwise we can never save the children in Gaza so this comes all back to what my dear colleague Jenka has said if we’re not capable of stepping out of right or wrong yes or no black or white we will in this world of dilemas never

Right now freeing the hostages having a humanitarian pause to bring in humanitarian support uh into Gaza and not stopping even though the headlines are there every day you cannot fix it anyhow I think the biggest favor for those who do not care for human rights and the inter International order is

That we are giving up and that we are not being ready to look at these different e uh topics from our different uh side and this is why at least uh for me I would say for all the three of us use our competences use our channels we

Are having and there’s again diversity is beneficial if we are not all the same but if we trying to solve this horrible war in the Middle East from our different perspectives then we can also bring security both for the people uh in Israel and the people uh in Gaza I have

To say I I fully subscribe fully subscribe to everything that analena said and I think is people in positions for a brief period of time of responsibility but also and maybe foremost as human beings as mothers fathers children brothers and sisters we’re intensely driven to try to prevent or stop human

Suffering including the suffering of men women and children in Gaza the question is how to do it most effectively and how to take account of the incredible complexity that analena just outlined so well but there’s another element to this that we have a responsibility to do something about the greatest

Poison in our common well is dehumanization and we see that in all directions and if you lose sight of the humanity of someone else then your heart is hardened to a point where anything is acceptable and anything is possible part of our responsibility is to do what we

Can to push back to avoid to call out dehumanization wherever it’s coming from in whatever Direction because if we can’t get at that it’s very hard if not impossible to do other things one I one of the criticism that I think I’m sure you you

Hear a lot is um US policy has of course shifted in in the last U couple of months but yet you want the fighting to stop but there is no sign whatsoever that you’re not willing to send weapons to Israel for example so that also confuses people you know when they look

When they look at the rhetoric versus the action what would you say to that well first we’re committed to Israel security that’s been clear from day one uh it remains clear and we understand and support the proposition that Israel has to uh find ways to make sure that

What happened on October 7th never happens again so we start there but we’ve we’ve also said and not only said we’ve acted on the proposition that of course the way Israel does that matters profoundly uh the way it does it in terms of trying to ensure greater protection for

Civilians who are caught in a crossfire of hamas’s making that’s absolutely essential making sure that people in need get the assistance they need we are working on this every single day and as we’ve seen this evolve over the last 4 months um things have happened as a result of our engagement our

Intervention that I would say probably would not have happened almost certainly wouldn’t have happened without it but it’s not enough it’s insufficient and that’s why we’re at it almost literally 24 hours a day may I add something on that yes because for the full picture and this is what we are discussing and

This is a good thing in these horrible times I’m was trying to see the glimpse of Hope at the Horizon the good thing is that over the last three months yeah all these discussions were helpful in a way first we didn’t have any humanitarian support now we have at least a few

Trucks not enough trucks but also from the other understanding and this is why I totally agree with the security guarantees for Israel you cannot just say we need a ceasefire and the Israeli government the IDF has to stop and then we just wait and see what happens to the

Regrouping of Hamas no we have to give an answer to both legitimate security concerns so our part of discussion is for example in the north yeah if people go back to the north how do we as an International Community secure that Hamas is not group regrouping there using misusing against civilians as

Human protection shield and this is also part of our common International Security response uh Minister Jo what what is the the view from uh from India what would you if you had uh some advice for your colleagues what would you be what would you tell them well I don’t have advice from my

Colleagues though I particularly I think all of us follow the enormous efforts which Tony is putting in right now uh but uh look the way we look at it uh there are different dimensions different elements to this number one we must be clear that what happened on October 7th

Was terrorism no caveats no justification no explanation it was terrorism number two uh as Israel response it is important that Israel should be should have been uh very mindful of Civilian casualties uh that uh it has an obligation to observe International humanitarian law uh number three uh the return of hostages is today

Imperative uh number four there is a need for a humanitarian Corridor a sustainable humanitarian Corridor to provide relief and eventually there has to be uh a permanent fix a long-term fix otherwise we’re going to see a recurrence and I think today uh suddenly India has long uh believed in a

Two-state solution we have maintained that position for many decades and I think today many more countries in the world uh today feel uh not just that the two-state solution is necessary but it is more urgent uh than it was before let me take a couple of questions uh I think

There’s a f filment there and then there and there okay three let’s take uh let’s take the all three questions actually we’ll take four questions very quickly is here yes four is there U Natalie toi roome um a question in fact both the secretary uh blinkin and her uh foreign

Minister Bok um I mean the logic of the argument of being somewhat reticent on pushing for a ceasefire uh as far as I understand is basically that of saying well one needs to make sure that what happened on the 7th of October does not happen again and

So the question that I ask you is do do you think that what is happening now what has happened over the last four months uh will actually reduce the chances of what happened on the 7th of October happening again will it actually make Israel more secure or not um okay so

There’s okay so I I thought that question was that that side but okay oh yeah thank you very much Alexi Gan member of the parliament of Ukraine secretary blinkin you said those who are not at the table are in the menu Ukraine was at the table in Budapest when we

Voluntarily gave up our nuclear weaponry now we are in the menu so the question is uh what is the way for us we are confronted with a nuclear power you either we will become member of NATO aliens with a nuclear power or we should restore our nuclear status I don’t see

Any other option what option do you prefer and what you will answer on this thank you very much okay uh there’s a question here a question there and then we’ll do one round would that be okay yes I mean I’m I have S yeah here

We gok you uh my name is Shafi gam from Egypt my question is to secretary blinken you’ve invested an incredible amount of time trying to bring uh a settlement in the issue of Gaza uh and at the very same time we all feel in the region that things can spill

Over in a very dramatic way especially there are many excuses of why not to have a solution but to do things step by step that is not going to work so my question to you is Sir why with all the countries including the United States including the UK just what Cameroon has

Just said proclaiming a two-state solution is not something the United States puts on the floor now okay and be able to achieve that thank you thank you uh finally there’s a question there and then I’m afraid I have a loud voice I didn’t I don’t need a microphone hello

My name is masi alad I’m an Iranian uh Troublemaker for molas and I have a simple question we cannot talk about Global Security by forgetting about Iran by burying the human rights abuse on carpet I’m here today with a woman who was in the front line of last year

Uprising he was she was shot in her eyes she lost her eyes because of the Revolutionary guards so my question is very clear how we can reach to peace and Security in the world without designating the Revolutionary guards as a terrorist organization which the United State of America did that thanks

But why the Allies are not following the United State the Democratic countries are not as United as autocracy because Islamic Republic is helping Putin is helping uh Hamas all the proxies in Yemen so as we see unfortunately dictators are more united than uh Democratic countries do you have any

Common strategy to isolate Islamic Republic and address H and his gang of killer the way that you address Putin thank you so [Applause] much all to all three of you you can pick the question you want to answer I know one was directed uh a couple were directed at secretary uh Lincoln so

Peace between Israelis and Palestinians starting with the fact that virtually every Arab country now genuinely wants to integrate Israel into the region to normalize relations if they haven’t already done so to provide security assurances uh and commitments so that Israel can feel uh more safe and more

Secure at the same time uh there are genuine efforts underway led by Arab countries to reform Revitalize revamp the Palestinian Authority so that it can be more effective in representing the interests of the Palestinian people and could be a better partner uh for Israel in uh that

Future and there’s also I think the imperative that uh that ji mentioned uh that’s more urgent than ever to proceed to a Palestinian State one that also ensures the security of Israel and makes the necessary commitments to do so if you put all of that together you have an integrated region

Where people are actually working together for the common good a region in which Israel is secure in ways that it’s never been before and where the number one threat to its security as well as to the security of many of us just alluded to in the last question Iran is isolated

Along with all of its proxies that that future that path is there it’s clear it’s hard it’s complicated but it’s real the alternative is an endless repetition of the cycle that we’ve seen year after year decade after decade generation after generation it’s incumbent upon all of us who have relationships with and responsibility

Uh for uh different countries in the uh in the region uh things that we bring to the table ourselves to make the hard decisions M do the difficult things to actually make that path clear real and one that whose attraction is overwhelmingly powerful I think the

Also because that aggression has gone to the very principles at the heart of the International System that each of us has a stake in preserving and that’s not going away so there’s a tremendous determination on the part of dozens of countries to do two things first to make

Sure that Ukraine has what it needs to deal in the immediate with the ongoing Russian aggression but second to put Ukraine on a pth path where increasingly in the months and years to come it’s able to stand strongly on its own two feet militarily economically diplom and democratically that is the strongest

Ukraine will succeed thank you secretary um Minister bebook well I I guess the the question from Iran was uh uh for us so the question was uh why do you not uh follow the example and list um uh uh them as uh uh terrorist in a terrorist sanction uh regime the Revolutionary

Guard we have discussed it quite often but the quick answer is because I’m defending rule of law trying without any double standards and our legal situation in the European Union and you can like it or not but this is how uh in which context we are working in our European

Legal system uh we have a sanction uh system for listing under terrorism if terrorism occurs in um another country especially in the European Union it was after the um attacks uh on the US on the 9th of September so we need a legal ground to list them so far we do not

Have uh the evidence and proof that there have been this terrorist attacks in the European Union there were different cases it’s a different legal system in the years but and this is important for me because I hear this argument again and again this is not because we shy away with regard to the

Revolutionary God or the crimes against though women use Civil Society its own population no we use the instruments we are having as a European Union to defend human rights and we set up for the first time in history of the European Union a sanction systems because of human rights

Effects and this it comes all down to me for me politics it’s not about symbolic action it’s about what matters for the people and under this sanction R system human rights sanctions from the EU revolutionary guards we named them cannot enter the European un Union we

After the 7th of October we could have had a common resol resolution we were in Cairo at the so-called peace Summit together with different countries many Arab Partners um and also from the European Union we tried to fix a text where we would say okay after this

Horrible Crimes of the 7th of October there could be the momentum now for whatever Generations have dreamed of a two-state solution pathway but in order to do that we have to guarantee that the 7th of October never happens again to Israel and we have to guarantee that

Pales iians have the security to live in peace and security for them unfortunately those meeting there together not everybody was ready to name the 7th of October what it was a terrorist attack from Hamas on Israeli people and this is why we passed this momentum I regret it but this is how

Union as the US with Arab Partners to find what we need guarantees that Israelis can live forever insecurity that the 7th of October can never happen again and the same counts for Palestinian people it has to be a reversible path towards a two-state solution and this is our job which we

Have to do uh right right now and we can only do it together with a different partners neither the US definitely not Germany but also not uh one Arab country alone can go this path we have to group and unite together for the peace in the

Middle East inshah as they would say the M least so I just take a minute one minute I think a very large number of countries especially of the global South believe that terrorism shouldn’t be countenanced or Justified but they equally strongly believe that a two-state solution should not be delayed

These are not choices these are both musts and unless we are able to address both these issues uh we are not going to really uh solve the problem well thank you uh all I know that we’ve gone over time so apologies for that and thank you to the [Applause] audience Germany

Welcome Anthony blinkin Secretary of State us nice to have you and sanan Ja Shankar minister of external Affairs republ of India I hope uh that based on uh the topic of the session that you will not all agree with each other and we can have some

Some Sparks uh we we have about 43 minutes and I will prepare your questions because um I’ll ask a few questions and then I’ll turn to to the audience Minister B Brock I’m going to start with you um Germany’s national security strategy calls for expanding Global Partnerships um

And is quite open about the multipolarity of of the of the world today h how do you go about it at a time when there are so many divisions and particularly when increasingly we feel the global South and the Western world are not on the same

Page well first of all a good afternoon very good to have this important session with my dear colleagues in a nutshell it’s more important than ever because uh we are not naive obviously there are ruthless actors who don’t want to to grab up the title of our panel negotiates the slice

Of the pie but they want to rob the whole Bakery and uh having that uh in in mind I believe it’s even more important than ever that those who are at at the table negotiating about the slices of the P stay there first of all Resolute respectfully and also

Reflective and this is the core also of our national security strategy which we have drafted as a German government making very clear in the light of this ruthless war of aggression against Ukraine that we are Resolute in defending international law it’s the best protection for everybody around the

World so there is no question about negotiating whether Ukraine has right of self-defense or not we all agreed and not only I don’t like that word but western actors we all agreed in our Charter of the United Nations there is the right of self-defense and we all agreed on the universal Declaration of

Human Rights having said that obviously we have to be respectful that especially within Ukraine and I think this is the lesson we have learned and it was very important to speak to Partners like India and so many around the world Brazil um South Africa we have to be

Respectful that obviously in this moment when we said we need the whole International Security others asked some questions like where have you been when we needed you or asked some question so um actually what does it mean for the future do you also stand with us and

This is I would say maybe something new in the attitude at least from our uh foreign politics uh from from from Europe to say okay we cannot take for granted that everybody just agrees with our European or transatlantic wish and the third part I think it’s the most

Easy but it’s the strongest asset for democracies the strength of democracy in my point of view is that we can be self-reflective and self-critical so asking in a moment when others for example war of aggression we’re not saying automatically okay we support you not say saying why don’t you get it but asking

Ourself why they cannot support us and I think this is the critical part but the most powerful part and at least again in our national security strategy we try to do it talking about for example our colonialism pass understanding why South Africa was mentioning the whole time

Their ties with Russia in the aparte regime and being self-critical and saying oh yeah not all democracies have stood back in time at their time and taking that as something where we said yes we might have made mistake in the past but we cannot change the past we

Can only change the future together I think this is the strength of multilateralism and we see around the world the majority believes in it do you find that increasingly people are questioning more when it comes to let’s stick to Ukraine and and we we’ll get to

Um to Gaza in a minute but on Ukraine are people coming around to your point of view or are they distancing themselves more well to see it over the last two years I mean we’ve seen the 142 voting in their General uh assembly so it is a

Life insurance so we see this big majority there we need see also the support many have traveled and I think this is really important to give always the question of War of aggression a human face it was not that we could convince some other actors in the world

But saying now you have to stand with that but when delegation traveled to Kiev and not only Kiev to buta to Yin when they spoke like we did to the parents of those where their child had been kidnapped by Russia then we give this situation a

Human face and that’s all about and this is why it’s so important to not only talk about state but we talk about the people talk about also the question of the rule of law in front of the international criminal court for EXA bringing crimes against humanity in

Front of the court and there we see again the majority of the states is pushing for that one um secretary blinkin uh there is a there’s a feeling that um it’s it’s more than a feeling it’s what we see on happening on the ground that the US China tensions are

Leading to Greater fragmentation and that you’re almost competing for you know alliances who’s you know who’s our Ally and we we see this within within the UN in various un institutions uh but we just see it all all around uh the globe to what extent do you feel that

You you are challenged in your in your travels around the world on the fundamental uh questions well first it’s wonderful to be with my my friends wonderful to be back in Munich at the security conference known uh among all of us as speed dating for diplomats uh

But we um we’ve done a couple things and I’ll come quickly to your question um from the start of this Administration we’ve made an investment a reinvestment in our alliances in our Partnerships and in the multilateral system uh We’ve reinvested we’ve re-engaged we tried to rejuvenate we’ve

Even reimagined and the reason for that is simple it’s because it’s in our interest to do it not a single one of the challenges that we have to face and that are so important to the interest of the American people can we effectively deal with alone as powerful and as

Resourceful as we are uh and so across the board we’ve seen our comparative advantage as having a strong network of voluntary alliances voluntary Partnerships and if you’re not at the table in the International System you’re going to be on the menu so it was very important for us to re-engage

Clearly an interest to do so and that’s exactly what President Biden is doing and when it comes to other countries the point is not to say to Country XY or Z you have to choose the point is to offer a good choice and if we can do that uh

A series of uh meetings notably most importantly President Biden and president she uh and I think we brought greater stability to the relationship uh not uh moving away from ignoring the fact that yes we have a competition there are areas where we are contesting each other but there are also

We have meaningful cooperation from and with China on fentol that’s going to make a difference in the lives of Americans and and you think it is sustainable to have cooperation on in some areas climate uh be being one of them but to have a strategic competition the strategic competition that defines

Question the very fact that we re-engaged and rejuvenated as well as reimagined some of our alliances and Partnerships along with the Investments that we’ve made at home in the United States the Investments we’ve made in our infrastructure the Investments we’ve made in science and technology and chips

The the the building blocks of the 21st century economy the Investments we’ve made in climate technology you put those two things together Investments at home much greater alignment with partners and allies across the board in Europe in the Endo Pacific uh in Asia on how to approach a question as

Complicated as relations with China that puts us in a position of much greater strength in dealing with all of the challenges that we have to deal with uh Minister J Shanker India has more of a um multiple choice mindset is would that be would that be right um from

Nonalignment to I think you may have called it or somebody else called it all alignment so you can pick and choose alliances but you can also pick and choose topics on Russia for example you still buy Uh Russian oil uh is that is that okay with your uh counterpart from

The US everything is your your relationship is fine you can do whatever you want whenever you want uh okay first of all uh you’re sitting next to each other first of all uh delighted uh to be here uh and I couldn’t find a better set people to be

With on the stage uh so thank you for whoever put us all together uh your question uh do we have multiple options answer is yes uh is that a problem why should it be a problem if I’m smart enough to have multiple options you should be admiring me you know you shouldn’t be

Criticizing now is is that a problem for other people I don’t think so I don’t think so certainly in this case uh and in in that case because look we try to explain what are the different pulls and pressures which countries have and uh it’s very hard to have a

Unidimensional relationship now again different countries and different relationships have different histories if I were to look say between the US and Germany uh it is rooted you know there’s a Alliance nature to it uh there’s a certain uh history on which that relationship is grounded in our

You know there are times when uh you know when located in different places have different levels of development uh different uh uh experiences all of that gets into it so life is complicated life is differentiated and I think it’s very important today not to reduce the entire complexity of our world into very

Sweeping propositions I think that era is today behind us uh so I agree very much with what Tony said which is uh good good partners provide choices smart Partners take some of those choices uh but sometimes there will be choices on which you say well

You know I think I’ll pass up on that one it’s a very good point um which brings me to uh the bricks and the rise of mdal powers because that is one of uh of the shifts that we see today do to what extent do you think that that is a

Powers in the world uh who felt that well they were not part of the G7 but uh maybe they also uh brought value to the table by sitting and discussing with others so in a sense uh you had a colle elction of these countries it was originally four uh South Africa joined

Later uh and uh uh uh if you know if you look at it it’s a very interesting group because it’s uh geographically as disparate as it can be uh yet it is bound by the fact that uh these discussions we’ve had over uh a decade

And a half have been very useful for all of us now like any produ you test it in the Market at some point we tested it last year and asked people so how many of you want to join bricks and we got almost 30 countries who were willing to

Join bricks so clearly if 30 countries saw value in it there must be something good we’ve done uh so I I think it’s important today uh to make a distinction being between being non-west and anti-west mhm I would say certainly characterize India as a country uh which

Is non-west but which has an extremely strong relationship with Western countries getting better by the day not everybody else necessarily in that grouping might qualify for that description uh but uh the the contribution the bricks has made you know if one looks at the G7 and how it evolved into the

G20 I think in a way those additional 13 members members who came into its bigger grouping uh five of them are bricks members the fact that there was another group which was meeting regularly and discussing and debating I think certainly was a input into the expansion

Of the g17 G7 into the G G20 so I think we did our service to the world yeah secretary blinkin I’m tempted to say what my friend said and and leave it at that look the the what we don’t need to do and what we’re not doing is trying

To somehow design the world into rigid blocks uh each and every one of the issues that we have to deal with and deal with in the interest of the American people may have different Collections and coalitions of countries uh that are that are focused on it that bring certain experiences certain

Capacities um and I think about it as as variable geometry we’re putting together uh a puzzle with collections of countries and and not just countries organizations of different sizes and different shapes to deal with a given problem uh as J said we have uh and of course the fact that the relationship between

Our countries I would argue is uh the strongest it’s ever been uh makes no difference that uh India happens to be a leading member of brics uh we’re a leading member of the the G7 we have the G20 and we have a multiplicity of things that we’re doing together every single

Day in different uh ways of organizing ourselves uh India and the United States working together uh in Aus uh working together I mean in excuse me in the quad working together in uh a variety of other uh fora uh all of this goes to the point that the the the complexity and

The multiplicity of the challenges we have demands that we find different ways to to work together and they shouldn’t be done on an exclusive basis um look our default of course is to work in the first instance with uh fellow democracies that’s only normal and natural but we are not only willing we

Are actively working with any country that wants to solve a particular problem and wants to do so uh within the context of a a rules-based order that’s the way we approach things speaking of a rule based based order um major Powers today are criticized for sort of upholding the rule based order

And upholding values in certain uh areas but not um in others and a lot of people around the world and particularly in the in the global South but I would say not only in the global South even within um uh our our Western democracies are confused um they look at what’s

Happening in Gaza and at the intensity of uh The Killing and they ask where are human rights where are these Western values I’m sure you you’re having here today and yesterday a lot of a lot of similar discussions uh Minister be Brook yes and they are so productive

Because many of them are not only speed dating but behind closed doors very trustfully and I think the most important job uh for those who believe in a rules-based international order be it politicians uh be it journalists be it citizens is to not be pushed into

This speed dating into this uh black and white World in all our uh bubbles because easily and this is a double standard uh question yeah if you only look and you mentioned the situation in Gaza if I only see the whole time on YouTube what’s happening in Gaza and I

Do that every second day every day I cannot stand it because otherwise I I couldn’t get out of my bed anymore yeah your reality is obviously the only thing what we can and have to do right now is to go in a total ceasefire to rescue these innocent

Children dying there every day yeah so and you’re 100% right by that but the question is to really come to this reality is to force myself not myself but all these person are saying this is a moral right thing to do to then also

Ask so how do we come to that and this is then when some might ask so why you German for Minister didn’t call for immediate ceasefire um uh the last months ago because I also looked at the other side at the other YouTube videos at the other bubbles yeah where we saw I

Saw 4 days after the seventh of October I didn’t even see it I spoke to the father whose wife and two little girls had been kidnapped by terrorist from highas I saw the video where women have been not only raped but murdered afterwards and in that moment for me it was clear again

That we can also not only relate to the Past saying okay we know how negotiations about uh with terrorists are working because if you saw that video and if you were ready to see this woman suffering there you understand that this is not only a military logic

Because those people who are doing this raping a woman and killing her afterwards they don’t want to exchange soldiers or political prisoners they enjoy slaughtering women I’m saying that because I think this is really important bringing it down to the people because then you understand in this kind of

Situation how do we come now to a ceasefire that the release of hostages the release of these women is crucial because otherwise we can never save the children in Gaza so this comes all back to what my dear colleague Reena has said if we’re not capable of stepping out of

Right or wrong yes or no black or white we will in this world of dilemas never do what our job I would say the three of us here is to to do all the best to rescue um people and this is why we have been working so intensively for those

Partners Arab Partners in the last three months to see how we can to come together for the most important point right now freeing the hostages having a humanitarian pause to bring in humanitarian support uh into Gaza and not stopping even though the headlines are there every day you cannot fix it

Anyhow I think the biggest favor for those who do not care for human rights and the international order is that we are giving up and that we are not being ready to look at these different e uh topics from our different uh side and

This is why at least uh for me I would say for all the three of us use our competences use our channels we are having and there’s again diversity is beneficial if we are not all the same but if we are trying to solve this horrible war in the Middle East from our

Different perspectives then we can also bring security both for the people uh in Israel and the people uh in Gaza I have to say I I fully subscribe fully subscribe to everything that analena said and I think is people in positions for a brief period of time of

Responsibility but also and and maybe foremost as human beings as mothers fathers children brothers and sisters we’re intensely driven to try to prevent or stop human suffering including the suffering of men women and children in Gaza the question is how to do it most effectively and how to take account of the incredible

Complexity that analena just outlined so well but there’s another element to this that we have a responsibility to do something about the greatest poison in our common wellth is dehumanization and we see that in all directions and if you lose sight of the humanity of someone else then your heart

Is hardened to a point where anything is acceptable and anything is possible part of our responsibility is to do what we can to push back to avoid to call out dehumanization wherever it’s coming from in whatever Direction because if we can’t get at that it’s very hard if not impossible to

Do other things one one of the criticism that I think I’m sure you you hear a lot is um US policy has of course shifted in in the last couple of months but yet you want the fighting to stop but there is no sign whatsoever that you’re not

Willing to send weapons to Israel for example so that also confuses people you know when they look when they look at the rhetoric versus the action what would you say to that well first we’re committed to Israel security that’s been clear from day one uh it remains clear

And we understand and support the proposition that Israel has to uh find ways to make sure that what happened on October 7th never happens again so we start there but we’ve we’ve also said and not only said we’ve acted on the proposition that of course the way Israel does that matters profoundly

Uh the way it does it in terms of trying to ensure greater protection for civilians who are caught in a crossfire of hamas’s making that’s absolutely essential making sure that people in need get the assistance they need we are working on this every single day and as we’ve seen this evolve over

The last four months um things have happened as a result of our engagement our intervention that I would say probably would not have happened almost certainly wouldn’t have happened without it but it’s not enough it’s insufficient and that’s why we’re at it almost literally 24 hours a day May on that

Because for the full picture and this is what we are discussing and this is a good thing in these horrible times I’m always trying to see the glimpse of Hope at the Horizon the good thing is that over the last three months yeah all these discussions were helpful in a way

First we didn’t have any humanitarian support now we have at least a few trucks not enough trucks but also from the other understanding and this is why I totally agree with the security guarantees for Israel you cannot just say we need a ceas fire and the Israeli

Government the IDF has to stop and then we just wait and see what happens to the regrouping of Hamas no we have to give an answer to both legitimate security concerns so our part of discussion is for example in the north yeah if people

Go back to the north how do we as an International Community secure that Hamas is not group regrouping there using misusing against civilians as human protection shield and this is also part of our common International Security response uh Minister what what is the the view from

Uh from India what would you if you had uh some advice for your colleagues what would you be what would you tell them well I don’t have advice from a

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@fatemaahmed676 on March 13, 2024 11:39 am

كيف اجتمعوا مع بعض مسيحي وبوذي وثني ام ان الكفر ملة واحدة
@fatemaahmed676 on March 13, 2024 11:40 am

احد يعبد البقرة واحد يعبد الصليب
وما قدرو الله حق قدره والأرض قبضته يوم القيامة والسماوات مطويات بيمينه

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