Driving With My Viewers | Does a club cyclist Observe better than Ashley?

After receiving an email from the cycling viewer, I was intrigued to see whether their observations were at a higher level than mine.

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Hi everyone I’ve got a drive with one of my viewers today and it’s quite an interesting one I had an email from this particular guy um after I analyzed one of the cycling Twitter or cycling x videos from right to bik it and I’m not sure whether he was a little triggered

But he’s been a club cyclist for many many years since I think 1976 just 5,000 m a year brilliant but actually mentioned in his email that he wonders sometimes whether um my observations are as good as a cyclist and he uh he thinks that he could possibly um not necessarily put me right

But um sort of like uh teach me a few things so we are heading down to hailwood um I’ve been told by my misses I’ve got my instructions to play nice so I’m going to play nice but we do need to find out whether or not that

Many years of experience as a cyclist is going to make you better at seeing than a driving instructor let’s Go doesn’t matter really makes no difference it just pinches slightly there you go yeah that’s perfect not a problem chill relax so lovely to meet you I only met you five minutes ago but that was I was so interested cuz I’ve watched a lot of your stuff cool over

Probably I gave up watch watching tell years ago yeah cuz I can’t stand it people do people do people just watch YouTube nowadays you’re right yeah short things as F that gets my attention move on to the next thing when I read when when I watch read sorry when I watch

That clip I thought yeah what clip was it that made you get in touch the 20 year one the 20 year one the 20 versus experience yeah okay yeah all right so it was just for just for people’s understanding who watched this it was the right to buy it click where um he

Had someone overtake at a silly point and he effectively just carried on and he didn’t back down yeah yeah I asked my pupil on a driving lesson um when we were um coming from a 30 limit up to a 40 limit what he would do in that

Situation if someone was overtaken in my opinion um and in line with the highway code my pupil of 20 hours experience came up with a correct answer cyclist from 20 years and 200,000 miles didn’t so what was it about that clip that made you get in

Touch what it was CU I watched it a couple of times and I thought to myself there’s a lot but then again probably you don’t get that long when you’re doing one of those blogs or whatever it’s not like you can tell a whole story

Is it in a sense actually the other way Ray it because when I’m when I’m doing an analysis on a video yeah I’ll look at it many times from all different little aspects and make sure that I do give the full picture and that’s what I try and

Pride myself on giving a balanced opinion just interesting for me what was it from that clip that made you email um yeah because I’ll be I’ll be brutally honest with you straight away um You probably thought who’s this cheeky guest I haven’t had an email like that in many

Many many years all right and honestly I’m intrigued yeah I’m intrigued with your statement of um you didn’t understand whether my observations were up to a particular level compared to a cyclist it’s super interesting for me so what was it about the clip that yeah well that’s exactly the same point for us

Both first off I think that the guy riding the bike right had a much earlier opportunity to what I call peel off as they come inside cuz you see there’s a first park car isn’t there mhm is it like a black I can’t and there’s probably that about 50

M before he comes up to the next car when that car is really done over his shoulder isn’t it yeah and problem for him in the sense or as a bike right he’s on a wet Road I actually think that he should have done two things I think he should

Have done one he should have been over a shoulder a lot sooner cuz he must have heard that car yeah in that sense yeah and he he could have been putting his hand out and saying hang on Ma wa hang on because he would when you’re s on a

Bike you’re up here rather than you’re not looking there you’re looking down I disagree in a sense I disagree cuz you sat higher um I disagree sitting higher um shouldn’t make you look closer one one thing that oh no not closer what I mean is his line

Of sight at that level he would have seen the oncoming car he should have he should yeah yeah much earlier so that’s why I’m saying he should have been looking over his shoulder signaling to the driver yeah and if he doesn’t he’s going to go on and then the bike Rider’s got

That what a second or two Max that’s when he gets that 50 m gap between the par cars and he can just swing in I don’t to be to be fair I think by I think you have been um you’ve been duped by the angle of the camera and the

Distances and the speeds as well Ray he’s probably moving along at about 20 mil an hour no he wasn’t do you think he wasn’t how fast you think he was no he was nowhere near that um really yeah the the wide angled of the cameras that

People use make movement um seem a lot a lot quicker I’ve done videos on this on the past right so he wasn’t going anywhere near that so this is this is the issue that um that people sometimes can have just watching footage from even a dash cam but the wider the angle the

Faster it seems as though the person’s traveling okay because you the things in the distance are closer than they actually appear therefore it makes it look as though you’re gaining on that at a hell of a lot faster speed all right okay there’s a couple of other things as

Well that it’s the width of that camera um also distorts the distances side to side that’s that’s how the likes of um Mr Vine uh dup audiences into thinking people are closer than the actually are also all right okay yeah okay so there’s a lot to do with the camera aspect of it

Okay personally personally that Rider I don’t think they had the chance to come back in and don’t know whether you know this as well did you know that recently I um did my bikeability training to train bike ability yeah okay I don’t think I’m going to ever use it

Um it’s not something that interests me to go down that route to teach um people bikeability training but I’ve done the whole course um and there were few things that have picked P up from it and I did it so I’ve got the perspective of like you’ve just show me all your bikes

In your garage I’ve got the perspective of a cyclist to then understand what should really have happened it’s interesting you haven’t mentioned right to bike its position because where he was on the road he was he was he was poor he was he he’s what rather than rather than should

Have been over the white line I wouldn’t say over I would say up to but but the problem with the with the wet Road in a wheel is white lines are slippy surfaces for bikes and the horrible places and that’s exactly why I said up to it um

I’m a motorcyclist as well so I totally understand about the dangers of the and then he loses that opportunity when the car’s over his shoulder and that little Gap is gone he didn’t see it soon enough he he saw I think he sees it well in time the car

Behind he doesn’t because if he did really see it and he knows about that positioning and he should do because he’s an experienced cyclist of years part of his problem though isn’t it well it is it is but he should have taken much earlier position before the car

Behind came anywhere near and commanded it in that way as opposed to continue going at speed when the car’s already trying to commit yeah that that’s a bit I’m on about over the shoulder bit yeah as in signaling to the drive look you know there’s a car coming head on don’t

Overtake here and if he just push his way ahead then that’s where you’ve got to let him go you and You’ also and you’ve also because you take up that more commanding position originally you’ve then also got a bigger safety space back to the left and slowing down

Yeah you got to build space for yourself and that’s those that’s why I say in a sense yeah the video isn’t long enough to talk about those things if he was out with the club for example yeah as a as a rider yeah I would have said to him get

Out as we say out out a bit and you know like when you’re riding along side beside in your single hours yeah you say out a bit yeah or you will motion to one another behind you with your hands whichever way you know move out a bit I

Know I know the clubs do have sometimes their own little arm signals as well um the the thing from a um another road users’s perspective though on that these signals that they’re not understood sometimes they’re not understood by everyone the majority of people don’t correct okay so but you can’t expect it anyway

So but they are useful I I totally get it I totally understand um but that clip um there’s many facets to different clips that I do that I can’t talk about everything yeah yeah I get that for example on my cycling Channel um it’s cycling education and I just put out a

Video done with you saw it last night I had a look at one of cycling Mikey’s Clips because um with his influence and with his reach out to people if he does things incorrectly and in the clip he wasn’t very good if he does things incorrectly that then goes out to

Hundreds of thousands of people then people copy Behavior yeah and then it makes cyclist like the bad adverse car correct you remember Gerald you remember Gerald Ratner years ago with a with a um jewelry yeah he said something about this crap it’s load of crap yeah yeah so it’s the same so it’s

Yeah so it’s the same sort of thing but for me the main reason why I’m here is to try and understand your statement of sometimes I don’t think that my observations me are as good as a cyclist where did you come up with that one Ray

Because honestly from the so if if I look at that video in pure Silence with with no listening whatever which actually I did because I think primarily if I’m riding a bike I’ve got no sound other than what’s going on in the environment yeah as so I don’t wear headphones like some people

Do which I disagree with and from that person’s position on the bike I suppose this a bit where you can’t say put all the content that someone might have thought about even that you would think about because you’ve only got a limited amount of time

And space to put that thing on and do it within that yeah kind of thing yeah and the interesting thing I thought was the stubbornest one point when I got to it because that’s the point at which he lose when I’m talking about he I’m talking about the guy yeah he loses the

Opportunity to have made a decision to have done something sooner for himself yes he had two choices I think yeah one was at the beginning of when he knew the car was there and he doesn’t know it’s there because I wonder what he’s doing with his left

Hand cuz you can’t see it I know that’s but no because there’s a camera looking back under his body yeah and that’s not his head he’s not looking under his arm you you’re right um so besides that yeah at our point if that were me cycling along there and I

Was I would be aware that car is there mhm then I would be signaling to him I’d be looking over my shoulder and i’ be with my hand give him a little friendly wave yeah and then I’d come out a little bit farther yeah to the white line or I might just come

Across it if it’s wet wet and if he’s backing off great and I’m doing that before I get to that gap which is about 50 odd Metter maybe a bit shorter yeah but is a gap that’s big enough for me to go into yeah he’s off yeah PL a break

And he can go on by you’re right but when he gets too far along there and then there’s another park car yeah that’s the bit where he then lost the opportunity to make a decision because if that car gets in front of him first thing he’s going to do is break correct

Yeah and that’s he’s going to have that’s exactly what I said in the video that um it’s all about not arriving at the same point at the same time yeah and that’s in its basic form yeah it absolutely good point it absolutely is if you arrive at the same point in the

Same time that’s what I said analyzing mik’s video yesterday if you arri at the same point at the same time you crash yeah it’s true yeah so what are we trying what was his video about yesterday then um it was one that it came out the other week all right uh

Probably a week or so ago and a couple of people who comment on my channel um made me aware of it because they said to Mike it was effectively a car emerging and have a little look at the video later on it’s on the cycling Channel I have a little look um but

Effectively um there’s a car that emerges and it’s not certain that this driver of this vehicle sees Mikey Mikey does his normal thing of just continuing and shouting at them which is not defensive riding okay if someone did that on a club ride I would hope that the other members would

Hold them to account and would go hang on what are you doing there so the guy drives out from like a side street or something Mikey has priority but it’s obvious that not been seen it close no it’s really open as in no as a a close

Call um sorry not really not really all right it could have been um but it’s the same sort of thing again where Mikey continued into into risk and he’d rather continue into risk and challenge a poor merge as opposed to keeping him keeping himself safe and that’s not a good

Example M and that’s the key and I would hope that people in your Cycling Club if someone did that say if I came in your Cycling Club and and did something like that I would hope that the members would hold that person to account and go hang

On a minute what are you doing come on everyone stoping here a mix bag really because uh I think that probably someone just to shut up kind of thing as in Wind you neing now we’re getting to the problems you know in a sense as into their own club members s thing and

That’s when someone says well he did this or whatever and you know it’s the same every day blame blame interesting that you go straight to blame you see that’s where they sometimes that’s the kind of dialogue that you would have in the club or some people might all say

Together yeah what an idiot or whatever uh but you might then get one or two say for God’s sake shut up stop it get on with it you know it it wasn’t that bad so but there’s there’s not enough and there’s nothing from what you’ve said subjective there’s no there’s nothing

From what you’ve said there that actually um points out what I’m really trying to get at everyone’s all too eager to point a finger and point a finger not enough people go that other person was wrong that isn’t going to change the roads are always going to be like that until we

Get autonomous cars it’s something that you’re not going to change yeah deal with it there’s a relationship and you’ve got to manage it for yourself correct you can’t correct it is ant it’s more about anticipation corre than anything um but I mean I tend to ride

Just in small groups now the club is not as big as it once was when I was a young lad 30 40 Riders out on a club ride okay ah fantastic yeah wonderful days you just don’t get that nowadays and there’s a difference as you get older as well

The younger Lads are just ride away with a heavy P leave you behind so you tend to ride in smaller groups now I tend to ride in pairs or say somewhere between three and five people kind of thing and the the various degrees of experience with them and things like that yeah

Uh and so I think particularly when it things like this when you’re com up to traffic parked cars the gaps are narrowing that’s when you’ve got to be absolutely on your pins alert as a cych with with that though and just going back to the email I still don’t

Understand how you can come to a conclusion from watching a video M that what I do and don’t forget um I can ride a bike through Liverpool City Center and keep myself safe MH would you feel confident in being a passenger next to a novice driver doing the

Same i’ be just a fine because the skill set’s massively different oh it is but the thing is you don’t know so from that sorry to interrupt so from that and this is the bit that intrigues me and this is the this is the main bit why I wanted to

Just come and have a talk to you today and just find out well this is the same for me what goes what goes on with people’s minds how did you come to that conclusion that sometimes you think that what I see in my observations aren’t match to that

Of a cyclist it’s it’s a it’s a strange one to be fair Ry and like said that’s what that was no you’re okay fine um going to come in a as well is it yeah I think they’re next the end they’re having some work on and

That um no I think they sometimes from a cyclist Viewpoint and the guy riding a bike is clearly an experienced cyclist but there’s still problems with experienced cyclist by the way oh absolutely you can be a bit too arrogant about it or a bit too assertive where it

Becomes 100% there’s a narrow line I think between being assertive and aggressive yeah I I call I use I use the same sort of thing but I say there’s a difference between being positive and aggressive I don’t even like assertive I think that’s probably a little too strong and that’s where sometimes it

Encourages all Road users cyclist included take it out way you think um I don’t know I’m not sure um we’re all right for a bit we’re okay we’re okay yeah so I I think that I mean from a cycling Viewpoint I put myself in that position

Say for example what would I have done there which you kind of explained already I would have been over my shoulder looking at the guy coming up behind meh known where he was aware of either he’s going to play that card and come through anyway asn’t pushed by yeah

So I need him to do that and I need him to do that really fast because I need to go to the inside okay good so so that shows good experience for me because what you’re doing you’re leaving options open my Escape Routes yes you need Escape Routes superb but again where

Does it come from with the email to say that my observations that I do aren’t going to be up to a level of a cyclist that’s the bit oh yeah that I don’t really understand I wasn’t specifically saying I said it’s probably fairer to say there’s a mutual experience and

Observation to be made rather than a purely critical one because I didn’t want it to come across Asal observation it’s just it’s just no you’re quite all right it’s just a it’s just it was a pretty strong worded email now I understand you right I apologize no

You’re quite right it’s not a problem um I’ve got thicker skin than that right it’s not a problem but you speaking to you it’s nice to have a nice conversation yeah well that’s people are real I can talk about it rather than you’re right and it is difficult to

Portray that sometimes you’re right okay but what um I think would be good would be when this concrete Lor is out the way I don’t think we’re going to get through there unless uh your neighbor this side budges up a little that’s me brother’s K

His house is he all right it’s all right it’s okay we’ll sit it out it doesn’t make any difference but I think what long because he’s just going to have a short por anyway that’s okay um like I said what we’ll do is get out on the

Road and what I’d like to actually do is look at your observations um in relation to what you’d probably be doing driving and cycling it would be nice to have a discussion it’d be nice to have a discussion actually I wouldn’t mind that I quite look forward to that bit you

Know because in a sense it’s a motor car and it’s got four wheels it’s a very different object to a bicycle admittedly but in some ways I drive my car like I ride my bike and I ride my bike like I drive my car yeah but but that way around there are so

Many similarities that honestly there’s a huge section of the cying community that think that riding a bike is massively different than driving a car and it’s not there’s so many similarities about what you should be doing there are other there are other bits that are slightly different and bits and Bobs but there

Are with Anan have you ever driven one of them not one of those I’ve driven a four toner my forces utterly different driving one of them I’ve got my L License as well and this is another thing that I think should be pushed towards cyclists as well is the biggest

Conflict on the road and the biggest cause of deaths of cyclists or killed a seriously injured with cyclist is the conflict between lorries and bikes they get Lorry drivers did you know this they get get Lorry drivers on bikability training no no no no but they don’t get

But they don’t get but they don’t but they don’t get cyclists going sitting and having a day and spending it with them to appreciate things from a different perspective that’s what people don’t do very well well I can mentioned to you before um even when you were

Talking about the the the uh the club ride you said oh you know that one was an idiot this that doesn’t fall into my mindset or even conversation if I was doing a drive I would be always saying yeah they might be an idiot what can I

Do to fix that and sort that yeah it’s a kind of thing it happens often doesn’t happen every day you’re out on your bike thankfully you no and it happens too much I’ll I’ll definitely say that right people are just real they’re just characters so you will always have

Someone who gets really overly sensitive yes they see a car pulling out 50 yards in front that’s too close for some people but in effect but in effect if that vehicle pulling out doesn’t make you change speed or Direction it’s perfectly fine he’s not done anything at

That just I think it’s fine even if you’re going hard on your pedals I think that that’s fine but there are those who would then get past should you be going hard on your pedals if there’s a potential for that well that’s what some people are like from time to time I know

And there there in Li the there in lies the problem yeah there’s a difference between the guys coming out 50 yards up the road in front of you yeah no matter how quickly or slowly you go and then someone who comes out and you’ve got literally a split second yeah there’s a

Big difference between that and I think the difference between the the Split Second and the guy who’s 50 odd yards away is the Split Second is the reactive Point yeah and you know what Ray and that’s where temp flare that’s the same for everyone and you know what R it’s

Not well you know it’s not because I cannot remember the last time I had a split second incident really on the bike oh I can on a in a lorry yeah in a car what does that actually say to you then you split second so an example of a

Split second one what so I know an example of Split Second like a one real like for me what does what does that say to you if I haven’t had one of those Split Second moments I can’t remember the last time I had one what does that

Say to you I know what you’re saying about anticipation but the problem is occasionally you can anticipate it all literally very much MH but what’s very difficult to do is deal with the Rogue element I disagree and I disagree and that’s what that’s one thing interesting that’s one thing that um people don’t

Realize they just assume the life of a driving instructor is just to sit on your bum and just um just be chaperoned around just be and just be chauffered around I don’t see well I’ve never seen that myself let’s let’s give you this then all right because I’m trying to

Help your understand them with it as well yeah no it’s a good refresher for me to speak to someone like you I get that and that’s partly the reason why I emailed brilliant honestly this is this is superb this is so constructive when I had worries honestly Ray that it wasn’t

Going to be like that that’s just going to be an argumentive Little T I I was expecting you to be yeah an argumentative little Gat yeah and my M said to me going out play nice cuz she knows exactly what I’m like yeah okay my wife said nothing except

For good luck s but you’re totally fine it’s actually it’s nice speaking to you to be honest mate all right so that’s really good but I just want to give you an insight into the observations that we have to do as driving instructors you know a train driving instructors

Mainly no yeah do you know no I I spend a majority of my time I know you trained some driving instructors training the instructors learn as well yeah so bit of both learn a learn learn a driver most of the time probably a 10% of what I do

Okay but mostly teaching instructors is probably 60% what I do and the rest 30% is YouTube oh okay so that’s how I split my time now one thing that I’m constantly um that’s a bit annoying that as well isn’t it but anyway hopefully hopefully they’re gone in a

Minute that’s all right don’t worry don’t worry it’s all right we’re just it it happens like this sometimes right where where stuff like this goes on and we’ve just got to just deal with it anyway off nights say again glad we’re not off a night shift yeah you’re not

Wrong don’t anyway so yeah one thing that I I have to push to people who have had you mention that word experience some people I’m teaching one guy at the minute um who’s and teaching to be an instructor who’s had 20 years experience okay but I’m honestly rewriting how he

Looks and how he drives because he’s good enough as a driver to spot things like you talk about on a bike and he’s skilled enough to deal with them and fix it quickly that is nowhere near good enough if you’re trying to teach someone on the road get that because what what then

Happens if you instruct at that same level as you Drive everything then becomes reactive and your instruction becomes instruction to the students as opposed to having enough time to get them to assess the situation and think about it themselves the difference with being in here in this environment yeah from being

On your bike is when you sat on the seat on your bike your awareness of your environment is much more attuned to that environment because you know that you can easily topple off yourbody you got to listen to things more I interesting cuz I don’t I interesting that I don’t I

Don’t think like that d i do I when I’m on my b everything around me 360 I’m aware of it I’m aware of its presence and I’m aware of where I am in relation to the objects around me so going back to what I do on a daily basis

Teaching the instructors and teaching the Learners how where do you think I’ve got to be to then give that novice driver in that seat enough time to then carry out that task so exactly you got to be on your pins unbelievable so it’s interesting that you say you’ll do it on

Your bike but you don’t do it in a car I do but not as much okay now we’re getting to a really interesting part to it because you think what cyclist would like is um a better protection from drivers drivers need to be a higher level um

Observe Junctions a bit more look out for cyclist but what you’ve effectively just admitted that you get in the protection of this metal box and you don’t observe as much as you would do on a bike well I’d correct that then I on two wheels I’ve got to be even more

Careful to point no a difference you’re thinking about yourself Ray and I and I understand that but this is this is the bit that you I’ll be as careful in the car by the way I would say that I know but you sort to see the point en about

The environment that environment is much more likely to opend me on two wheels and I’m much and I’m much more likely to kill a group of cyclists coming the other way if I get it wrong in this buddy good nice job what made you choose a

Green car um didn’t have an option mate it was just the uh it was just the only one that I uh that I had um are you okay talking and driving by the way I’m fine yeah yeah you can turn right out at the end um so yeah the the the the mindset

That I just want to make sure everyone’s got is thinking of others we can head out to the roundabout and turn right please we’re heading back up towards um the main road um up at the top oh yeah to the road Ford Road yeah as I call it

Yeah um so yeah the the mindset that I’m always trying to think and get people to do is think of others a little more and people do people do Drive these things there’s a big complaint this car’s a little lumpy when it’s cold yeah all

Right all right so is this a petrol or it’s a petrol it’s 2.3 turbo it 20 280 horsepower so it’s quite quick but you probably interested my wife in driving it then because she likes things like that I I’m really not that interested no

No a car’s a car for me if I was honest um but yeah the the interesting thing for me would be um to try and and it’s my task it’s my goal if you like to try and make sure everyone thinks of others there’s a big um even recently did you

See the bit in the Press about the Ford Rangers the double cab Ford Rangers that’ve been taken off um the business tax um sort of like allowances so businesses aren’t going to be able to buy them now and and treated as a company car they’ve I think they’ve

Taken off there’s a big thing about bigger cars and the Damage that they do and you’re absolutely right but for me it’s all about changing attitude Minds because PE people get in the car attitude and you you haven’t meant to show but you you’ve shown me a little

Glimp that you do more observations on a bike and it’s because you’re trying to keep yourself safe that’s Instinct as well right in my opinion it is a big part ins your motor card is about your instinct yeah that’s right but it’s instinct to look after yourself but if

You’re massively in control if you’re really in control and you’re observant well enough you can do much more to look after everyone that’s the key um you’re right with car you okay with the feel of it not a problem all good all good but um that

Sound yeah so as a cyclist now um where would you be on the road here where would you be here yeah depends on what’s behind me and how close he’s behind me so there’s a guy just behind me personally here I wouldn’t have even um had a question there with all the

Parked cars I would have been out on primary yeah that’s yeah to call a prim so um what what about here as we’re driving where would you be with a with a car behind I’d be about just here where primary or secondary you wouldn’t be in

The center no not here I don’t need to be you should go through a junction all right okay yeah you should be out in primary here would it be dangerous for people to overtake I think so yeah yeah so I’d be out in primary and even here with the

Solid lines if I was above 10 I know the solid lines are gone I’d be out on primary I would typically move there and I would wave the guy behind me you’d wave him when I say wave them as in put my hand up and say thanks I know you’re

State you know Co that’s all right son yeah just just make sure that you don’t ever beckon anyone you want to go left please at the roundabout we’re going to turn left and then we’re going to turn right over High Lane oh I know on that side yeah sound okay

Yeah uh yeah so I basically I want cars P me as soon as they can get if you can yeah I agree because once they’re out of my way I have a more enjoyable space you’re right in a sense but it it’s just it’s interesting that you know I’m I’m

Talking to a club cyclist who’ve been cycling for many years where I would have been out and priming a little bit more um positive okay going through certain things there were Park cars on the opposite side here it’s an interesting one would you be the other

Side of the cones or would you ride here where would you be be here if you were riding down i’ say that side I’d wait until this is clear before you know what I think I would as well is where it is yeah and you mentioned the word before I key uh it’s

The attitude yeah attitude of people yeah that’s everything attitude yeah when that changes it changes everything yeah okay perfect this a lovely look yeah 100% so let’s think about that clip that you emailed in about you know what I’m not even going to ask you the question because it would

Be it would be sort of like a little I think it would be a little rude of me to ask you what do you think of the attitude of that cyclist that I analyzed I don’t think that would be rude actually I think it’s a fair question um

But I’ll answer it and I’ll see whether you if you wish to you know how would I answer how would you answer it I think um that Rider thinks the world’s against him where that was in his reply it’s was it yeah where it’s probably not as much

As he realized and honestly there are he’s quite um there’s a lot of animosity and there’s a lot of conflict within how he rides for me and I don’t think that’s how we should be sharing the roads we mentioned that word before yeah he his

Comment or his reply if you want to call it that is them and us I know and it’s not like that and that’s actually you know that yeah you could have said that if you wanted you did and he might have thought that that was probably a bit

Unkind but actually I think people sometimes need to be told PE people also think that of me when I analyze stuff as well Ray you know but then that’s probably see a big part of what you’re doing there is you’re doing something which is for you very much a job in some

Respects but at the same time YouTube isn’t although you can earn money from it and oh yeah no I don’t mean a job as in an income job wise you’re doing something for a purpose yes and YouTube’s my passion and road safety is is my passion as well and I am I think

Do I do I come across as quite passionate about the subject even I first saw your videos yeah probably about two three years ago maybe maybe a bit longer don’t know yeah yeah and I think the first one I saw was you were coming on to the Moto and I thought oh I

Recognize that I think it was the M57 it’s amazing how many people in Liverpool recognize it and go I’m going to start watching Ashley it’s usually how it goes it is it’s usually how it goes we’ll get to the end and turn left please Ray um but people don’t

Understand why I analyze Clips people call me a victim blamer now I wouldn’t say that I think that’s a bit but I to be honest it’s it’s water off of Duck’s back to me um well the reason I say that is because in my job I

Um have to you know I don’t have to deal with complaints anymore okay but uh what do you do at the minute r i do commercial law commercial property law excellent learning isn’t just about me uh it’s nice to learn something good to learn something but you know you don’t own what you

Learn it’s it’s about passing on living learn pass it on 100% And if you think on what I do with the YouTube stuff it’s that’s where you that’s where I it’s the same sort of thing but just going back if you don’t mind me just going back to

The little question about why do I um for example last night’s video on Mikey am I trying to have a oneup on Mikey with what I do with situations I don’t know you’ve seen any of the stuff that to do with uh Mr Vine the broadcaster

And some of the stuff you know I don’t know him no I know he’s into bikes and I know there’s controversy about him but why seen why do I analyze those type of Clips Ray any idea is it cuz I want to have um the one up because I’m a driving

Instructor and I’m csy I’m not I’m anti- cyclist absolutely not no I don’t your approach is pretty much analytically speaking if I’m giving a problem file to look at I’m looking at the round problem all of it meaning do you want to go straight straight please

Yeah um and when I used to look at complaints funny enough if there’s a file that’s uh ended up as a balls up as it were so to speak or big problems with it it’s not necessarily the person who’s made a mistake who’s at fault I I found

Over lots of years of experience of looking at things like this yeah and what I’ve began to do is look at the person and they were either conscientious or they weren’t yeah you know um but most people you’re looking at why rather than how did they come to

Make that mistake so what I it’s a simp it’s a similar thing that I do I found an inclination to look back at that work yeah for 8 weeks prior to them making a mistake because typically you make mistakes Under Pressure yeah which is what happens when people have accidents

Whether it’s a car on a bike or even if they’re walk you know things happen and they go yeah that cognitive load of driving or or riding can cause pressure that pressure as well and you’re absolutely right and so I would look at 8 weeks prior where they were because I

Could find out how many hours they’ve been at work what hours they’re doing files and so I can work out their load yeah and where they’re at so for example you would then say to someone well you look you know they’ve made an error but they haven’t been to lunch for 6

Weeks yeah they’ve come in at 8:00 in the morning for 6 weeks and theyve left it and you’re not doing that to point the finger at the person you’re doing that to effectively try and make try and make it better yes and people should learn from it excuse my front door going

So right have that’s just linked to my phone at all um so yeah just to answer my own question why do I anal analyze these clips is because I’ve got a big fear that people will copy people like right to bik it people will copy people like Mr Vine people will copy

How cycl Mikey goes about doing thing or do doing things and some of the things that they do are really useful they’re really really useful to highlight Mikey for example brilliant at highlighting mobile phone use superb yeah really good however people copy him in all manner of

What he puts out on YouTube and people on YouTube need to have straight straight straight down down to the bottom turn left please okay um so yeah people who post stuff on YouTube and Twitter or X or whatever need to have a greater responsibility for what they are posting

Because my fear is people are going to watch Mikey and then yeah that’s an interes and then copy I want all Road users to be safe and the stuff that I talk about with Mikey’s clip last night that I put out I love that is effectively me saying to to

Other cyclists see there’s a good EG you were a little hesitant there yeah but given want to know what he’s going to do you knew what he was going to do cuz he wasn’t going to come out I’ll talk about that in a sec all right left turn left

Turn up at the end so yeah um I don’t want people to replicate Mikey because I want to keep people safe um and that’s what is that’s why you do it but people call me they say oh Ashley you’re just victim blaming again no I’m not uh ge

Where you you know if if a big disaster happens and there was well that’s the information overload the bombardment that you get on um things like the social media isn’t it yes that’s right that’s right um I think you’re OB people who do social media will’ll turn where the bus is please

Right that’s right yeah you’re you’re either happy to do it or but you got to probably I don’t do social media because I I just don’t think I got the time for it I got on my little life you you’re absolutely right do you mind me just talking about that meeting situation

With the BMW no okay um you said to me that you didn’t know what they were doing you didn’t quite read it properly Ray because because the BMW from the opposite direction from a long way away mhm held back didn’t come out past the central line mhm and

Stopped so what you were actually doing was Target for fix ating a little and not really looking at the clues that were there that was telling you he was waiting so I can explain it from my viewpoint cool in a sec give us one moment you backing off when that vehicle

Had already given you that priority could in some scenarios be confusing it may make them think that you’re giving way to them it wasn’t at that level but that’s just sort of how that situation is all right um we’ll go left where the blue car is please um

Feel free to you know have your little input on what you thought with that me yeah I get your analysis yeah of it as as it were yeah uh I get your analysis I don’t get it from a point of Interest I I understand you understand it in a sense I think

It’s less about interest more about understanding that sense yeah uh and sometimes a little bit about consideration and courtesy on the road uh sort of thing disagree situation CU they’d already given you that they’ had that courtesy they had the courtesy who did have pracy me saying good he’s

Waiting yeah so that’s something that I’d like you to also take into your cycling interesting yeah that don’t go off and cause that confusion when someone’s already given you it people can try and be too nice and that was probably too nice probably a little situation where you’re trying to be too

Nice yeah yeah where you just needed to go thanks yeah and be positive yeah not assertive I don’t like that word use it however you want however you want but I think you understand where I’m coming from I like that use I like to use that word positive and you just needed with

Your car there to be a little more positive in a little little more extreme situation that was fine there was never any confusion it was a nothing all right but it’s nice to discuss that as well um do you know this road at all you you

Bike down this one I don’t often come this way don’t often come this way no sad so if we don’t get our speed right on the bend we end up then sliding into a group of cyclists outside I’d like I’d like that one to stick with you also

Yeah yeah well I totally thoroughly get but it’s also the the people on two wheels you know yeah cuz what usually and it’s usually the inexperienced on two wheels taking something like that I’m normally coming across Water Lane and going up that way yeah uh that’s exactly the sort of place

Where a cyclist wipes out yes 100% And that’s that’s why that’s why I’ve got two different channels by the way as well and PE people haven’t cottoned on to this I haven’t I’m sorry drive and education have a driving education is to educate yeah drivers what’s here yeah what was what

Was the potential issue with that scenario what will you get on these type of Roads people overtaking you so from a driving perspective whenever you see a cyclist coming towards you it’s the vehicle that could overtake that’s the issue yeah it’s never the Cy it’s always it’s always that car what I

Tend to do when I see that happening yeah uh they hang back a little slowly because the the truck driver or fan drivers yeah giving the guy plenty of space in time because there’s nothing worse than the guy decides to overtake we’ll turn left when we get to the uh in

Between me and the cyclist yeah that is a big bu bear y for cyclists yep um you’re right um I’m just going to have a little Gap here in a second you sometimes have to Simply expect that that’s going happen yeah and be ready to deal with it yeah you’re absolutely

Right it shouldn’t do if we live if we live in a in a you know a fairy tale world it’s not going to happen but no it is so we deal with it yeah um I liken um driving to swimming with sharks you can swim with sharks

Safely um that weren’t the best from the uh BMW but could have wa you made the situation better giving them space yes so then allowed the black one to protect our mate on the bike a bit more which is what I’m all about MH yeah I just want

To have a oh I’ll go back to what I was saying I like and driving to swimming with sharks you can still swim with sharks safely as soon as you get out of that cage you putting yourself at a higher risk and it’s a s it’s a similar situation analogy actually yeah

Um it’s like I call reaction to fish tank yeah yeah I want yeah yeah um I want to have a little gab if it’s okay um our speed what could we do with this are you on your best behavior or is this a sort of speed that you would drive

Down here I’m probably around about 40 well it’s it’s a 60 limit all right so therefore if you don’t get on with things yeah yeah you’re then actually encouraging someone to overtake they’ll miss a cyclist coming the other way and then the cyclist gets it again yeah so

Try and make a little more progress if it’s safe a little um roundabout turn left onto the expressway please okay notice you’ve just put your signal on and you haven’t checked your mirrors I’m going to talk about that in a sec all right I’m going to have a little gab

That’s the point that I would like to just come back to and sorry to pick on your driving but this is this is uh this is what I do and this is what it’s all about I’m trying to give you it is for

Me say again it is for me it is for you all right okay cool I’ve not come here today or to meet you yeah for anything other than as I said some shared experience and learning what speed should we be at you’re a bit slow do you yeah keep up with that

Traffic else you’ll have problems yeah I tend to when I on good luckily enough with my car you’ve got plenty to get going all right cool does that make make sense about the speed there remember said to you that it’s not speed that kills we said this

In your garage it’s the difference in speed that kills yeah so with the mirror work and it’s the same sort of thing as I’d like you to take into your cycling as well before we do anything why is it important to check our mirrors before we

Let people know where we’re going why is that important right I don’t know if there’s a textbook answer for it but I don’t I don’t care a textbook answer I I can’t read I would can’t but but no well so right personally to me my mirrors in the

Car yeah are what to give me the information for what’s going on behind and that decides on me okay good yeah and that’s what I want I want that I don’t need to dwell on that him he’s now going on the outside I mean there’s a

Guy coming up whether he comes from past or not I can see what he’s doing and I know what he’s doing back there what do we check a mirrors for before we signal though why go on remind me it’s to time your signal correctly oh okay fine I so

For example if someone’s really close to you when would you take your position around a park car on a bike earlier if someone was really close to you when would you then potentially put a right on on to tell people you’re going to turn right yeah yeah earlier much earlier on

A bike I think probably but in the car also yeah so notice you signal without checking you just use it instinctively yes and that’s not right that’s not good cuz you’re not being quite aware enough mhm of how people are and you’re not changing what you’re doing to suit your surroundings

You you are at this minute in time um what we will do is I tell you what we’ll head back into witness and come back down higher Lane the same route back to yours all right so just hook a left and then we’ll go in by the test Senter and

Then work our way back around so you were doing there I was watching you watch that Land Rover come past I was watching you slightly tweaking your speed I think you were honestly thinking where’s Ashley going to tell me to go with you what have I got to do you were leaving yourself

Options MH am I right in that assessment of where you were at in that little point I wasn’t particularly thinking in that way at all to be honest with okay so maybe then I was want to know what I was looking it there in a sense we

Follow for D hail Bank of green all right sound so we’re fine um was the difference in speed between the two of them cool yeah in a sense um but do you understand where I’m coming from maybe maybe maybe where you can take your driving and riding up to

Another level is to alter what you’re doing and how you go about doing things mhm dependent on what we’re seeing so use that information a little more thoroughly right rather than just going going through the motion signal yeah yeah how close is the car behind when

Are you going to let them know with your brakes yeah th those type of things will immediately turn right please right immediate right this one just here S I almost had someone come this way y doesn’t surprise me okay does that make sense about check

In before you signal as well oh PL there it does because I’ve been not on the bike thankfully I’ve not been hit on the bike half much in life uh but crossing the road yeah we’ll get down to the roundabout and turn right please and when you’re kind of looking

In the direction where the traffic’s coming your way and then someone has gone that way pulled over and then reversed yeah set me flying yeah I must admit I really did not enjoy that it’s right and there are things like that but you see this here yeah

Where you got that yeah you just broke it the law you just done something legal there you know yeah what did you do cross a little roundabout bit yeah to must and high you want to go right here or no straight down straight down to

Lights and turn right so um as you can see it’s that little bit of complacency with people driving and and what they do on a daily basis and probably what you’ve done for years and years and years and people do go over many round abouts but again it does cause issues

Yeah it can you know um yeah and I don’t like the blind side of the bridge but you know when a bike especially yeah because when I’m coming from that I can move quite quick on a bike yeah I can imagine saying there there’s not a lot of you you trim it you’re

Probably about a third of the way of me mate can’t move as quickly as a car that just suddenly is coming upon me there but but this is the bit that I’d like you to try and improve with suddenly uhhuh what did I say to you about those

Reactive moments how many have I had over the past however 20 years not many I can’t remember the last one it’s interesting that that went suddenly to me it’s because even when I’m talking I am on to everything no we’ll head straight up we’ll head the far end back into yours

Do you know the for the yes so you can just start heading there up that way back to yours but even going through that 20 limit um I uh I recognized you were doing 24 25 even at the stop Junction when we came out of there before you would have only stopped when

Vehicle came like it did you wouldn’t have stopped otherwise I see all these things okay and it’s quite a bit of a a a light bul moment for people for Joe public mhm the Joe Public Road user who has been doing this for a long time and they’re good

And they’ had no accidents have you ever had any collisions and bits and Bobs right I’ve been rammed R rammed yeah well that’s that’s something you can’t do much with but I’ve not had a crash or had a crash okay great and I can tell I can tell from how you drive you

Considerate you’re careful you’re the right sort of type of driver mhm but there’s always stuff we can more toar there’s always stuff we can improve with I’d like to think everyone is able capable and willing to learn yeah that’s that’s the attitude that I was on about

Before that’s right just out of interest there you didn’t check any mirrors to move out around a park car you just moved um but I did know from the way back this guy behind me in the Land Rover Range Rover whichever s so your attention was with him at the speed we

Were going could you had a cycle that was overtaken at that point possibly so it’s these little things that I do and someone asked me the other day Ash do you go in into sort of like business mode when you get in that seat or when you get in this seat

Teaching and I said nah never I do it all the time yeah I do it 100% I’m like the Jurell bunny in a car I never stop I understand that because actually what I tell you it was about I taught for about 17 years you taught yeah you

Taught perfect yeah um about 13 years in the classroom evening classes and a few more years after that uh through correspondence did you ever pick up anything from people you were teaching and go I’m having that and and take that do you ever do anything like that cuz I

Had a moment like what you’re doing exactly yes um I’ve even actually had students copy and paste my own work and return it to me as part of their job just out of just out of interest there um while we’re talking cognitive load increases sorry to interrupt you you you

Were doing 31 mhm on a section of Road that’s a 40 limits yeah okay what might that encourage people to do behind they shouldn’t be doing but might it then encourage them even more cuz you’re 10 below the limit prom them to over take and then you’re putting I mate come the

Other way on a bike in danger I get that it’s interesting point so that’s something that I’d like you to take into your driving I’m not saying to bombit no no no no no I’d love you to keep your same calmness but there are certain sections that I’ve seen today where you

Could make a touch more progress and it’s not for your safety it’s for the safety of your whole environment well done good good with that make sense yeah no I do get that because in a sense I suppose in it it’s no sense at all actually it’s a reality as far as

I’m concerned yeah I’m more interested in the safety of the cyclist on the road because his risks are slightly higher sometimes than they are in a car you’re right and also you’ve probably noticed cuz you’re you’re a smart guy I don’t want to patronize You by all means Ray but

You are you know very intelligent guy but you’ve probably noticed what I’ve been doing as well if you noticed everything I’ve been doing has been I’ve been relating it to cyclists yeah well that’s the point of the because that’s your passion as well and what I’m trying to change is

Sort of like practices within your driving that also benefits back cyclists yeah yeah I I’m so glad we met you now good I’m glad I hope you are by way I am I am absolutely made up and I’m I’m made up because like I said a little bit

Earlier on I was worried that it was going to I was going to meet one of those people who was just not open to any discussion just um a little bit like I’m sorry to say our mate in the right to bike it clip is that what is called I

Think I think that’s it yeah um you dealt with that brilliantly you were super positive when you were given priority yeah MH and you reacted soon after you were given priority and that’s then no confusion how much space you going to give our mate plenty because

He’s got a vent coming up I can’t see what’s coming that way just for time being you know and the guy behind won’t like it you know I’m not bothered about because don’t go I’m going right but put yeah put an signal on um spot on

Absolutely spot on and you know he he’s probably expecting this don’t go on the lines no um in a sense but doesn’t need it and so my job there was to defend him cool after it was so what you said about the signal I didn’t realize you were coming

Right what you said about the signal maybe then defending him um um put that signal on a bit sooner a little bit sooner maybe yeah true okay so there’s always little bits that we can do to communicate with others just out of interest you said plenty for the cyclist

Um I’ve got away from the 1.5 M now I know it is that’s in law okay it’s in the highway code but I’ve gone with width of a car away cuz cars this is 1.8 1.9 met wide yeah actually you say that in some of your videos I agree with that

Because I think that’s a better understanding because to most people how big is a meter and a half they can’t judge it they absolutely of your car then so look at that Gap you want a car could you where would it if you position the car outside of that handlebar you

Need to be beyond that yeah perfect way dealing with it all right good yeah totally get that good well done yes there was big danger there if you couldn’t see over the top yeah well done sound now just try and make a little bit more progress cuz if you don’t and the

Cyclist is come you other way this one will overtake and again cause them a little bit of problem but you’re again ready for that one you’re ready to deal with that uh mistimed overtake and you’re ready to slow down that’s it but yeah I’m super relieved as well

Ray that it it wasn’t how I was expecting today and this is what I’m talking about yeah I probably would have seen him and just stretched my legs a couple of miles an hour you see how you can protect in that situation just with what you’re doing with your speed but I am

I’m absolutely made up that it hasn’t gone in the way that you expected like um so fabulous mate really good um is there any other bits that you want to ask me or talk about before we get back to yours mate is there anything else that’s on your mind no I’m really happy

With it actuallyy because about the color of that pink Audi wow yeah sound I agree um but yeah it’s I don’t mind a bit of color you know but I’m not into I don’t think you’re happy with my green car though mate are you I that was one of those incidents where

What should you have done re really a little bit more been slightly reducing we were potentially going to arrive at the same point so they’re the bits that you can now try and get to and not go that was lucky he didn’t come out yeah onto it

Yeah okay it good good um shall we go out for a ride at some point mate absolutely you’re morecome and um you might have to slow down for me mate cuz I’m a it’s fine a bit of a fatty nowadays but anyway years ago I probably

Would have kept up with the best of you if I was honest but um the thing about riding a bike is most people don’t realize how far they can go you know um me my Miss will do 40 miles though well that’s more than enough I mean that’s we’ve got electrical assistance

But we’ll still do 40 miles oh electric bikes we talked about them earli on didn’t we yeah you did a video I can’t remember how long ago it was yeah there was a guy off in the pavement or whatever in his lucky bike yeah that’s just shocking it really is

Shocking actually because what bugs me with that and this is and this is the problem with I wouldn’t say governments because it’s hard to restrain when people come along with something new they they’re going to make it you know yeah uh I there’s a couple of guys in the

Club who on the you know still want to enjoy the club rides yeah you know and some of them now do have electric power but they’re and there’s a stigma there’s a stigma against them I think but go on yeah I think well I think people are getting

Over it now you know like when when you see guys that you’ve ridden with for 40 50 odd years of your lifetime and you know they’re no longer com to the cafe and the reason they’re not coming to the cafe they can’t get there is it’s not

That they can’t get there they can’t get there with everyone else yes you’re right and and that’s a sh that’s a shame that I honestly I don’t like about um certain things that I’ve seen about some clubs it’s all about pace and that’s a bit I get but the

Roads for me how are you going to deal with the cyclist I’m just going to let him come through the space perfect he was brilliant he accommodated us as well did you know there’s no legislation against distances to cyclist coming the opposite way there’s nothing about 1.5 no I

Didn’t actually no so be careful of drivers doing that yeah not everyone’s going to think in the way that I do um but yeah there’s a stigma with electric bikes I get it all the time I get all cyc X going you’re cheating on electric bikes these some of the ones are just

Bigger well no what you say I think actually you know if you go to the continent you’ll see far more of it yeah um but I also think it’s good because it gets people out onto yes it does it allows the you know less able the fatter

People like me to still you know go out on a ride and all right but these young kids and idiots who are on these ones which actually don’t require your legs to turn them they’re the they’re the ones and that’s the one that I said to you before about the throttle and that’s

Why I’ve slaughtered the bike and Slaughter the company anyway um but yeah you might have to um hang back for me saying that my I can still do 15 and a half miles an hour everywhere just whack the pedal assistants up and I’ll be right slow down but anyway got a friend

Called Lecky Luke yeah and uh you don’t have to turn the pedals he comes out with us occasionally and he thinks he’s doing it but he’s not I have to say to him he wanted to come to Wales with us and I said no he said well he said I

Could do that right I said no the answer is no because it’s too far to go for me to look after someone who actually can’t really ride ride bik here you’re right you’re absolutely right I must admit I am tempted to get a road bike at the

Minute myself are I’m tempted um I’m just in the process of buying a motorbike again at the I’ve never a to feature on a channel but I’ll definitely come and have a ride out with you mate um I’ll I’ll whack me bike rack on the back I’ll put me mountain bike hope you

Don’t mind riding out with a mountain biker mate cuz that’s that’s where I sit with things that’s where um that’s where I did a lot of my riding you could actually see there as well the reflection in that Mercedes before he came a little further ahead if you can

Yeah and that’s going to protect you out in the bike as well see through the edge cool um but um yeah where I did a lot of my riding um as a younger lad a few of the lads who I used to ride the mountain

Bikes with went to go and ride in the um cycle across World Championship but yeah I’ve got a big cyc in background people don’t realize they just were you in a club no never I was I was a f but did you get out do Road riding or um never I

Had one road bike but I never really did a lot with it mine mine was my fun was mountain biking I used to love my mountain biking if you just want to leave it anywhere mate I don’t know whether you can get back on your path where’s the Lorry ah Lor’s all right

Yeah you want to get back on your path feel free but yeah I’ve got a big cycling background and people just think because of the job that I do that I’m that I’m antic cyclist and it’s just not the case so did you go to ller yes I’ve

Been a number of times I still go it’s good for big giant pieces at cake they made decent beans on toast y I don’t often stop there but occasionally we do because we what I like to try and do you bik out there yeah you nut Jesus couldn’t do that yeah um

Um and I said you know I like to get a decent pair of legs in the summertime we ride all throughout the year yeah and uh so that’s what we do good and the nice thing about like I go over the bridge yeah uh and then uh you know T way I

Guess yes yeah so we get over there good and then we turn your car off now as well if you want me head off basically there you go shorted towards don’t go into never go into re where they come this side or the far side of reum and then the hills are

Coming to the back of L goland depending on which way you come yeah you’d either come over a Hill Called World’s End and that’s on the far room side of where the the dler training centers for the mountain bikes yeah yeah yeah we come around the far side yeah which is the

Panorama war and then depending on how you feeling with your legs yeah what Ren ruen yeah I know that as well what do you think would be most beneficial and not just for you there’s an element of you in here but what do you think would be most beneficial that you would like

To cover on our ride out what do you reckon do you think it would be better off going in with a little bit of traffic and see how you deal with that or do you think the open road stuff would it be a good time for you to

Demonstrate maybe the Garmin radar and show me how you use it and I’ll stick mine on as well do that o Open Road open road yeah I would say for for you um you’re fine if you’re doing new sort of distances you know we typically head out towards

Powerbal okay I tell tell plenty of cafes I tell you what that if you got a place that you fancy then I tell you what then the probably the best thing for us to organize would you be to bite to mine M which is anry race course okay

Yeah is and then we can go out to par bold and back and then you can do the rest of yours because I don’t think it could bike from here to power Bal oh yeah I to do that that just wouldn’t be I mean because like yeah there’s not it’s the

Worst place in the world to be yeah when you run out of legs yeah I know I know You’ probably suffered it I know well well I’m I’m I don’t know whether you know my history I’m an ex-professional footballer I did wonder when someone was talking to us I

Mean so I know so what happened uh injury uh first game for Liverpool met Nelson Mandela smashed me cruciate ligament in and then and then went down from there but what what year was that then early ’90s ’94 okay so I’m I’m away from Liverpool then I I joined a fored

An 85 but but for me it’s just a part of History I’m always that person who looks forward enjoy it yeah some I’ve got some amazing Stories I’ve got come on how many people do you know has met have met melon Nelson Mandela if could even say

It properly I didn’t meet him but I worked a part of a debrief team that did some of the uh and things like waight and Keenan and people like that I’ve got a picture in my office next to me YouTube play button of me shaking hands with Nelson fantastic yeah so and did

You have a conversation with him a prop yes and honestly he’s the most genuine person I’ve ever met you know when someone says how are you are you okay I felt that warmth and sincerity I’ve never felt with anyone it’s a real conversation unbelievable I had that

With a guy called Buzz Aldren now him as well well I actually didn’t know who he was good after we could true we we could G forever tell you what save that one for our bike ride I’m going to wrap this up r No thank you so much it’s been super

Constructive and not anywhere near like you imagine that proves one thing you’d never never take uh never take your opinion off that sort of like first little thing does it you shouldn’t do you true it it’s partly why I don’t do social media because it’s hard to convey

Your true self on social media yeah even in correspondence workwise sometimes I would say pick up the phone speak to me talk to that’s why I work in a tiny little business where it’s very small yeah I don’t have to worry about everything I just worry about the

People I work with you’re not wrong it’s the best way um but yeah thank you so much we’ll def we’ll definitely um get this bike on the road and uh thanks everyone for tuning in be good see you soon done