Bob Dobbs and guests break down the 1967 Zappa / Kofsky interview that appeared in Jazz & Pop. Plus, Bob and iON (the non-physical) analyze the lyrics to “Stairway to Heaven”, line-by-line.
Bob Dobbs is a Zappa researcher and McLuhan scholar. He is joined by regular contributors Roxana Flores Larrainzar and Bert Hill.
Recorded December 19, 2015
00:00:00 – Intro
00:03:03 – Baudrillard – “The Vital Illusion”
“The Vital Illusion” by Jean Baudrillard, focusing on the implications of cloning and how it affects human identity.
00:25:14 – The Alphabet and Individualism
Marshall McLuhan’s ideas on how the introduction of the alphabet and writing changed human consciousness.
00:40:17 – McLuhan and the Mystical Body of Christ
McLuhan’s concept of media ecology and its relation to the divine.
00:46:43 – The Power of The Word
The ancient understanding of Logos and its power.
01:01:37 – Zappa, Religion, Spirituality
How Zappa’s satirical approach to music may involve deeper metaphysical themes.
01:10:00 – Analyzing “Stairway to Heaven”
Detailed line-by-line analysis of the Led Zeppelin song “Stairway to Heaven”.
02:31:42 – Secular Humanism and The Big Note
Zappa’s views on secular humanism, his founding of a church, and his concept of the Big Note.
02:43:12 – McLuhan, Alchemy, and Creative Process
McLuhan’s ideas on grammar, alchemy, and creative processes, comparing Zappa’s work and appreciation of alchemical concepts in his music.
02:49:42 – Zappa and the Art-Science Nexus
Figures like Leonardo da Vinci, McLuhan, and Zappa bridged the gap between art and science.
02:54:00 – Non-Physical and Creation
The non-physical plays a role in the creative process.
03:02:11 – Symbolism and Ascension in Art
Layered symbolism in art and media.
03:09:28 – Zappa as Cultural Icon
An early article on Zappa. Early days with the Mothers.
03:31:03 – Psychological Impact of Music
Zappa’s use of techniques to elicit specific emotional responses.
03:37:49 – Secret Agendas
Licio Gelli and secret government activities.
03:45:44 – Zappa’s Image & Influence
Zappa’s image and how he influenced other artists.
04:01:15 – Music, Business, and Journalism
The blurred lines between music, business and journalism.
04:13:00 – Art Reflecting Society
Zappa’s view that art should project the qualities of the era it is produced in.
04:23:04 – V2 Rocket Metaphor
Comparing the metaphor of a V2 rocket screaming across the sky to fads that invade public consciousness.
04:25:29 – Zappa’s Interactive L.A. Map
A map that Zappa designed, which included hotspots of the L.A. youth culture scene, including satirical elements.
04:35:43 – Zappa / Kofsky Interview
An interview between Frank Zappa and Frank Kofsky.
07:35:01 – Analyzing Zappa’s Music
Symbolism and thematic connections between the song titles and broader topics.
07:57:07 – Civilization Phaze III
Themes, scenes, and characters, exploring various concepts within the narrative.
09:27:38 – Operation Frank
How “Operation Frank” started, Zappa’s run-in with John Lennon and Zappa’s work in Hustler magazine.
Okay, Bill has brought me in on Skype. So, Jean, you can talk about the illusion, whatever it was. It’s a vital illusion. So, we’re starting Jean. We’ve interrupted you several times. We’re now starting you. You can speak.
Yes, but Bob, we all want to know, what’s up with iON? Well, my phone, iON has blocked my phone to the station. I can call anybody else. I can call my other line. I can call Corbin, anybody on my phone, and they ring and I can talk to people,
But I cannot connect with the station. And iON demanded this song to be played, so now that it’s played we should be able to to phone in on station but I didn’t break this moment yet. So how are you connected right now? Bill called me on his Skype. On his Skype so you’re
Connected through the computer you got to do SIP Bob. You gotta do SIP. I gotta. Why do SIP? Why do I have to do that? Because it’s like Skype but probably better. Yeah but it’s probably lousy. And I bet you… Are you on SIP right now? I’m on SIP. No. I’m on SIP.
It says you’re on the phone 715. Oh no, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I called in on the phone because I thought there were SIP problems, but I still think those might be yours. Screw SIP. Forget SIP. Really? And you’ve talked to Bill?
We’re now starting the show. The music is finished. We will delete the whole past hour and ten minutes in the archives. It was a big waste of time. So we’re starting. And Jean, because Carol doesn’t want to do the Carolyn Gorton thing today, you’re on to talk about Bogeyard. So take it over.
Got it. Okay, so shall I start? I’ll start completely over then. Yeah, start at the beginning of whatever the quote you were reading. My setup, yes. Okay, I have begun to read the actual book entitled The Vital Illusion by Jean Baudrillard. And it was published in the year of 2000.
And as much as I’ve read, I haven’t read the whole book, but it appears to be centered around the effects of the turn of the century and the very big media play of Y2K, that all of
Our computers were going to collapse as a result of the turn of the century. Right. The first chapter is, he begins by illustrating the idea of cloning and its effects on all of us.
And I’ve had trouble, Bob, absorbing that in a way that I can talk about it. So today I skipped to Chapter 2. And I’m going to read the first few pages of Chapter 2. And I know you will.
It is my anticipation that you will interrupt and we’ll talk about things as I go. Yes. Okay, so it begins, the title is the Millennium or the suspense of the year 2000. How can we jump over our shadows when we no longer have any?
How can we pass out of the old century not to speak of the Millennium if we do not make up our minds to put an end to it, engaged as we are in an indefinite work of mourning for all the incidents, ideologies, and violence that have marked it.
The more or less hypocritical commemorations and recantations give the impression that we are trying to run the events of the century back through the filter of memory. Not in order to find a meaning for them, they have clearly lost that meaning somewhere along the way,
But in order to whitewash them or to launder them. Cleansing is the prime activity of this fin de siècle, S-I-E-C-L-E. SIECLE French for the end of the century. Okay. Cleansing is the prime activity of this end of the century.
The laundering of a dirty history, of dirty money, of corrupt consciousness, of the polluted planet. The cleansing of memory being indissolubly linked to the hygienic cleansing of the environment or to the racial and ethnic cleansing of populations. Let me repeat that statement. The cleansing of memory
Being indissolubly linked to the in parens hygienic cleansing of memory being indissolubly linked to the in parents hygienic cleansing of the environment or to the in parents racial and ethnic cleansing of populations. We are turning away from history in progress with none of the problems it poses having been resolved,
And plunging into a regressive history, in the nostalgic hope of making something politically correct out of it. In this retrospective, okay, I’m going to stop right there because I just thought of Trump. And you’ve been all about Trump this week. And that seems to be what Trump is doing.
Trump is plunging into a regressive history in the nostalgic hope of making something politically correct out of it. Are you there or am I all alone here? No, no I’m hearing you. How was I all about Trump this week? The show just started. Facebook, your post on Facebook and your relating
I think maybe you even posted on Duk’s, you were relating Trump to your chart. I did that? I’m only recalling it. Let’s not go in there, I don’t remember that. I didn’t do any book charts. I posted an article by Trump a week ago, or about him, a week or so ago.
Maybe someone else has posted stuff about Trump. I have not disabled Trump right this moment. Other than… Alright, okay. I don’t see Trump finishing his sentences. So, what… He’s not trying to say anything… Yeah. …consistent. No, he’s in a place of nostalgia where he’s trying to make something politically correct out of um…
I think that can’t be politically correct. Alright, let’s just move on. Um, okay. So let me re-read that sentence. We are turning away from history in progress with none of the problems it poses having been resolved and plunging into a regressive history in the nostalgic hope of making something
Politically correct out of it. And in this retrospective, necrospective obsession, we are losing any chance of things coming to their term. This is why I advance the idea that the year 2000 would not take place. Quite simply, because the
History of this century had already come to an end, because we are remaking it interminably and because, therefore, metaphorically speaking, we shall never pass on into the future. Our millenarianism, for we have reached all the same a millenarian deadline, is a millenarianism with no tomorrow.
Whereas the coming of the year 1000, even though it was experienced with dread, was a prelude to perusia and to the advent of the kingdom of God and hence the prelude to an infinite promise, our own deadline remains a closed, involuted one. Okay, I have to ask Roxy. Okay, Gene.
Roxy, do you see this, what this bode yard relevant to our Zappa thing we’re going to start now? Or shall we stop it and start with Zappa? I wouldn’t like to interrupt but one of the things that I am interested at the moment
Now about Botteryard is his concepts of the simulacra, this erasing of reality and there is no more reality, there’s only the simulacra, the not real, the virtual reality. And he explains how the language is the first translation of reality and as we translate our perception into language, it’s already like a virtual reality.
We don’t really access the real because it’s all concept. It’s all inter-by language. Roxy are you saying that with the start of language we are already making up reality as we use language to describe it? That’s what Baudrillard says.
And I think it’s actually what Ian also says because Ian insist all was created by human and I was interested in this subject because of the things that happened that I’ve been thinking a lot
About what is God and what is religion and spirituality because we were discussing the last book of Eric McLuhan and he says synesthesia, the soul and the sense of the lack of right words of concepts. We are in this labyrinth of the simulacra of the words that doesn’t have to do with
The real thing as iON is explaining how everything is frequency, how the body really works and what are we really, what is this hologram? And until now, we were just lost into these concepts and concepts and concepts and theories that we had been building with language and it’s not the real explanation.
But at the same time, iON says, our words are creating, so we are, it’s very interesting how the word, the language, the word, like you said, is the figure and the language is the ground.
The word, as McLuhan said, is the figure and the language is the ground. It’s very interesting how it relates to the divine, to our idea of God, or how we put our power outside ourselves. We still access it using words, by expressing ourselves. And I’ve been trying the whole week to understand this
By the things I have been saying about language. And I was thinking how we thought God created nature and then the human creatures were second nature that technology, language and all the creations of men were just the imitations but not the real thing, it’s just like the virtual reality, like a bad imitation.
But on the contrary, what McLuhan is saying is it’s all part of the same creation. It’s all an extension of the first to relate it to Saba and what I and Bob are saying.
So that’s why I was into Baudrillard and the simulator. So, okay, so it sounds to me like if we, well, that none of it’s really real. The first nature which we… We are starting to understand the hologram and how this translation or the illusion we have of what is real
Cannot be real because our senses are not separated but until now the means were focusing on only one sense was being predominant and the other senses were not interacting as they should yes, we call the sense spiritual and we make it mysterious
But it’s just another sense that we have not been aware of it’s not lofty, it’s not higher than… No, because perception is not only mystery landscape, perception is how we translate frequencies. Our brain is translating this, but until we activate in a way and reset the translation,
The perception cannot be as it should be and as it will be we are all going to be seen as static and I like the way you’re using the word translate as opposed to perception Perception. We translate what we see or hear and we use our words to describe what we’re translating.
That’s a different way of looking at how we perceive. We’re actually translating something that’s real. Yes, and in this translation, that’s why Baudrillard said we can never access the real reality because Right. an interpretation is subjective. It’s like your own creation Have you read the system of objects? No
No, I read many things from Baudrillard but I haven’t studied really in depth. He’s really, really complex. Yeah. But I like many things that he’s presenting.
Well, this is the first time I’ve been able to absorb his words in a way that I can actually use my words around them. And that example of using Y2K and the chaos created because we anticipated a total breakdown of the computer systems and we had an awareness then of how much
We depended on them that may not have been recognized in mass before then. And that was like the beginning of just beginning of just recreating everything that happened before. Where I’m at right now is wondering, well, what he suggests, what he starts out in the
Second chapter is that because we’re at the point of, we’re down to the smallest particle and messing with the genetics, the smallest particle that we believe to be real. That there’s nothing left to create. And I’m not quite, I don’t quite get that one yet. I’m not connecting those yet.
How does getting down to the smallest particle that we think we’ve come up with in a scientific definition relate to the fact that we are, or the idea that we are not creating anything new anymore? Well, I don’t really understand what you’re trying to say. Okay. No problem.
I think it has something to do with the idea that, you know, the technologies are getting smaller and smaller and they’re serving us, but I don’t, I better not say anything more because it’s just kind of words floating around right now. He is
Talking about the fact that we’ve reached the point of being able to clone and replicate our chemical bodies. He relates that… Okay, Gene, Gene, Gene, the basic point that Bojard says is that once you’ve made a clone, the original thing you cloned from gets lost,
And therefore you don’t have an original anymore as the clones get cloned, as the cell gets replicated. So we don’t have an original reference point. That’s all he’s saying. Got it. If you project that idea on what he’s saying, you’ll get what he’s writing about. He’s always saying we don’t have an original.
It’s a simulation of the original and the more and more it gets replicated. Copied. Yeah, you don’t know where the original was apparently. I mean maybe some lab has it or something. And so he talks about three kinds of simulacra. He talks about three kinds of simulacra.
In his earlier essay, late 70s, early 80s, there’s the printing press simulacra, then there’s the industrial simulacra, and then the electronic simulacra. He lays that out. So it’s just a redoing McLuhan with a different word. Wow. So it takes us to the – What did you say?
It’s McLuhan, but a lot more complex. Yeah, Frenchified. They’ve got to make more complex. Yeah, Frenchified. They’ve got to make it up really complicated. Frenchified. Yeah. And so they split. McLuhan Frenchified. That’s right. That’s what my big essay is about. McLuhan Frenchfried. That’s right. McLuhan Frenchfried. Yeah.
And I do a huge essay on all the French guys. They’re botching, blasting blasting and mutating McLuhan. That’s with this long essay that’s on the McLuhan-Maui site, which I’m starting to go through with Derek Yurkov, we’ve just started. But the… so, you have… McLuhan says all media are pseudo-events.
That means speech is a pseudo-event. When you get into real and unreal, that has a whole bunch of philosophical baggage which comes with dialectics which confuses things. So all you have to say is that media are new realities that the brainstem can’t respond to.
But that thing I read a couple of weeks ago, what was it last week? Art of Survival? But that thing I read a couple weeks ago, what was it last week? Art of Survival? The brainstem only responds to what we call a first nature. And the cortex is creating second nature technology,
And technology is the only thing that’s evolving and changing. And the brainstem doesn’t know how to react to its changes, the changes of technology or the simulacra. So that’s all we’re dealing with, you know, when you’re dealing with Bollinger. Keep it simple. And he’s saying the illusion of the end.
In millennial nude sensationalism of the 90s, there was a lot of broadcasting about coming to the year 2000. So everybody said, oh it will be the end. Of course a lot of people thought it would be the end of something. And Bojer says, no, it’s an illusion that it’s the end. And then
He starts talking about media, but he makes it the word real and the unreal and the simulacra. He uses non-Macloon words and you can’t figure that out. It’s a ridiculous complexification.
So Bob, it’s a ridiculous complexification. What a hoot. So Bob, pseudo would be a word that would describe the in-between timing of real and unreal? No, in-between is maybe more real. He’s saying pseudo, he says media are pseudo, but then he says they’re real. They are, they create environments that our brain
Incompetently reacts to. Sure. His whole message is that technologies are nature. And it begins with speech, so McLuhan does complexify it a little bit in his own language. But what is real? Do we need anything to be real? What does it mean to say something is real?
I mean Buddhism says or Hinduism says all is maya. You know, that’s an old, old idea. Yes. Metal is organic. For humans. Technology is nature. Technology is nature. Metal is organic. What’s organic? Metal. Metal? Metal. Metal. Metal. M-E-T-A-L. That’s organic? Why would you use that term? Weeks ago. No, you’re quite defined.
Look, look, it’s real simple. You invent television. It’s going to be a television. It’s going to be a television. It’s going to be a television. It’s going to be a television. It’s going to be a television. It’s going? Weeks ago. No, you’re complex and fine. Look, look, it’s real simple. You invent television.
It’s going to alter the previous media environment. Your radio world, your movie world, and your book world. And your kids go to school to study books. So if they’re going to live in a TV environment, their book reality, they’re going to get the classroom ain’t going to work anymore. It’s that simple.
And no one could accept that. No one could say, oh, jeez, we’re now a TV people, because whatever medium we’re using determines reality. It is very real. And it makes the older media not so real, makes them weaker. That’s all McLuhan was saying. And nobody knew how to implement that.
Nobody said, well, yeah, we better stop sending kids to school. We better, or maybe we should turn TV off. That’s all, that’s all he said. Yes, and I have been sort of trying to understand Matthew’s Catholic humanism. And it’s very interesting how he developed his median ecology because he had this
Interest in the logos and how the logos is related to this. Right. He wants to understand that it’s… The logos was a concept. And the creation and… Hey, hey. Yes, but the… Look at the logos.
Take the… You’re saying McLuhan’s interested in the logos. That’s a concept. and… Hey, hey… Yes, but… Look at the Logos, take the Logos… You’re saying McLuhan is interested in the Logos, that’s a concept, and what was it before writing, and what was it after?
Now, I’ve just been reading McLuhan or Eric on that, shall I read you what they say about the Logos? Yes, that’s why I became interested in this topic, but in a way, he saw that the Genesis, it’s all about technologies. And I found that very interesting because he then went to me.
Okay, but what you’re saying it’s all about. What is it all about? He had the need to understand the non-physical, I would say. That how do you approach that when you don’t have the right words, the right concepts? He went into studying language, the logos.
And yes, not only the content, as a literary professor and critic, he said the figure, the content is not the most important. It’s the ground, the medium that is really shaping and affecting our evolution, our perception, and everything but the thing behind this was really what
We would call spirituality or mysticism but he would never say like that. He was intelligent that he went to present this exegesis of the media in a way to understand and to study the fall and the ascension. Yeah.
Okay, let me back up a second, Rack. I find it fascinating because he said that… Gene responded. Gene wants to respond. Yes, he just wants to say something. You said that the genesis is technology. Yes, it’s a different technology.
So, and technology brings chaos to society, so from the beginning… No, technology is only an let me back up a little bit. I just want to focus on that statement. The Genesis is technology and technology has never stopped. Technology is perpetual. From the beginning, we have created. And we call it technology.
When we create in the physical, we call that technology. And that never stops. Well, the physical was never created. It was always there. That’s the thing. Yeah, but that’s not my point. You said Genesis is technology. It’s the exegesis of different technologies appearing. Say that again. That’s what Matt Lewin said.
In the genesis, the exegesis. Lewin shows how, yes, it’s like a sequence of how different technologies appear and start expanding men. And from there… And technologies are creations. Technologies are creations by human creator gods. By creator gods. Yes.
Yes, of course he was not presenting that like that, he just saw that the first technology was language and then how this creature that is supposed to be a simulacra of God, an imitation of God, we were created as similar to God. creating technologies by trying to expand trying to gain the power back again
And become what he called at the end the mystical body of Christ Yeah, you can understand that, right? Do you agree with that? Yes, I do I have another question So how is technology, you said language was the first technology,
How is language different than the hammer created to split the, you know, McLuhan explains how all creations are like words. All creations are actually like a way of speaking, of language. So, language simulated all creation. Actually, language contains everything. All reality is translated in words.
And that’s the fascinating thing that he asked himself, how were really words created? Where did they really come from? In antiquity, there were people that were into the etymology in studying the roots of the words because they saw language is not only onomatopoeic,
Like an apparition that you just say a word like that and this is going to be called a chair. They really tried to understand where do these words come from? Yes, so at some point in the timeline, at some point, somebody picked up a rock and
Used it as a tool to facilitate whatever they wanted to do with something else. And then at some point, other point in the timeline, somebody used words to describe that action of picking up a rock and using it as a tool. And that was the first simulation
Of actually picking up a rock and using it as a tool. Does that make sense? Well, the thing is that we don’t really know. And I suppose that is why iON is for example teaching how to speak with the angels and to expand our
Conception of what is language and conversation, communication as music for example. Okay, so Roxy I want to add to that. I want to add to that. That’s the way that creates. I want to add to that. So, I’m reading McLuhan, Eric McLuhan’s book, Media and Formal Cause, and he has a long
Essay on formal cause. Now listen to this, with iron in mind. It says, to the ancient understanding, this is what Eric writes, to the ancient understanding the Logos was charged with the power to bring things into being. Have we heard that idea before?
Yes, that’s why I say his theory of media and ecology was this exegesis of understanding the Logos and how the Logos creates technologies but he will not present it as a catholic theory but as media ecology and then you think he is iON
You said he will not present it as catholic theory, you saying iON? who’s he in your sentence? Mcluen Mcluen Who’s he? No, he. Who’s he? She, McLuhan. In your sentence. McLuhan. McLuhan. No, McLuhan says it’s Catholic. Okay, let me read you this. Now what does this sound like?
To the ancient understanding, the Logos was charged with the power to bring things into being. Ever heard that idea before, Jean? Yes, I have. The low glass has been elusive to me for years, however. No, no, look, the idea, come on. That something, there’s something, if you don’t like the word low glass,
Was charged with the power to bring things into being. What brings things into being? Okay, okay. What? What brings things into being? Okay. Okay. What? What brings things into being? Okay. Something. What? Fucking hell. Go on. Says your words bring things into being. Oh, okay. The Genesis. The Genesis. Okay, go on.
So listen to this. To the ancient understanding, to people way back there, if there was a back there, the Logos was charged with the power to bring things into being. The gods themselves spoke in thunder and their speech could and frequently did alter the world and influence the course of events.
Naming a thing tantamount to defining it meant giving it a structure and an existence. The name, then he says Logos, the name Logos was the thing’s pattern of being, its essence, its definition. In the process of choosing and uttering a thing’s name, the thing itself was called into existence.
Where have we heard that before? I won’t wait for your answer. This is iON 101. Our world is dream reality. Rapunzel. What? Rapunzel. That’s the first time I’ve… Look, listen. This is what he’s saying. This is what Eric’s writing. Naming and giving something definition was rather more than application of arbitrary labels.
The name more than simply meant the thing and vice versa. The two were so closely iterated as to be one. Name and thing embody each other. Defining and naming were each constituent of acts. They were equivalent. This act of
Logos appears in Genesis as God creates the universe by means of speech. God utters the universe at the creation by speaking its name. He as it were, God, calls the universe out of non-being into being. Every human act of
Naming echoes this act of knowing and making. A kind of replay or recognition, human naming demands precise perceptual knowledge of the thing and parodies the divine act of naming and making. Here is L’Imogjus which is French for the perfect word here is le mojus with a vengeance
So the ancients ever regarded etymology in the study of names as high science it could provide a direct route to knowing the essential nature of things exactly the domain of form of causality oh my gosh it was the first science that’s the
Okay language is the first technology because we defined it as science. No, no. iON says your words create your reality. That’s what this is saying. This is what Eric is saying was the original fact. So Eric McClurin is saying exactly the same thing as iON. But Bob, there was created. There is an…
Things were created before language. No, iON says they were made by words. Unless you get complicated and get into later iON and it was acoustic frequencies. But let’s just deal with first level iON the first couple of years when iON was wrong and erased it all later but he
Was saying that our words create our being that turns out to be the understanding of the ancient logos and words and words are what you hear I want to hear Roxy what do you say Roxy. What do you say, Roxy?
Yes, what Gigi said is why McLuhan was so interested in studying grammar and the tribune. Yes. Because he saw the tribune as the study of language, of different aspects of the altering. He wanted to understand the logos and this is what for me is so amazing that the media ecology,
He had already this idea that the words create and… But his concept of language is not only words. He expanded to the technologies and that’s the fascinating thing, how he wanted to understand the mystical body of Christ, but he could not complete because he had no… He needed IAM to complete his ideas.
That is what you’re doing. What did you say about Aion? What did Aion do? Yeah, that he needed Aion to complete because he stopped thinking. All this creation of language and technologies, of figure and ground, at the end was what he called the mystical body of Christ.
But I think it’s like these concepts like soul and spirit, they’re all false premise and the words sort of are like an obstacle to go further because you need the ionic to complete and to understand.
It’s not really the concept of the spirit or the soul or God as it was thought until now and that’s the thing you and I are already finding what is God what is the soul what is the non-physical yeah Bob I
Think it makes more sense to to call it a sense you know start calling it a sense, you know, start calling it a sense as it is. Calling what a sense? Instead of using the term spirit or soul or that mystery body, it’s actually a sense that we’ve… What is a sense?
…we’re not aware of. What is a sense? You’ve a sense? You gotta explain what it is. You mean that nautical is a sense? Yeah, well yes that that that that feeling or experience or sense that the New Agers are used floofy terms about spirits or a higher self or you know
There’s any number of terms about that, whatever it is in the mystery. Okay hold it, that’s enough Jean. So listen to this. The next part is, what happened to the Logos?
If it was exactly what iON said, and iON says they take us back to the source, the original power of our speech, and it created reality, and God created the world, that means us, we create the world through our speech. So here’s what Eric continues and says, the Logos as constitutive utterance.
That means it constitutes, it makes something. Okay? The naming, the Logos as constitutive utterance is the same one that Eric says he wrote about in Laws of Media, and again in his study of Joyce’s Phineas Wake in his book called The Roll of Thunder. And he says, it is the old powerful
Logos so eloquently discussed by Eric Hevlock when Hevlock discusses how the poets in Homer’s time would mime the situation. The audience would become the poem. So that was the power of acoustic logos. And another guy, Lane Untrugg, wrote a book, Therapy of the Word in Classical
Antiquity. So then Eric says, the logos of a thing was its essential structure or pattern, its mode of being, its definition, its intelligy. So when the Eskimos said, how can I know stone without the word stone, they saw that the naming of stone made the stone. So that’s ancient primitive awareness.
So that’s what it means when it says the Logos was the structure, was the pattern, was its definition. So then, against this, in Aristotle’s time, the new alphabet was exercising its influence over the imagination. A new rational mode of Logos suddenly developed, allowing
The older Logos to come forward to serve as formal cause. So the older Logos, which everybody was engaged in making, it got sidetracked by writing, and so what the old Logos did became called formal causality. So when Aristotle talks about the four causes, efficient causality, material causality, final causal, and formal causality.
Formal causality is you, the God, making reality. So when you read Aristotle, he’s got this effect of writing that points out the world of matter and the world of connecting things to make objects. But the user, the creator, is the human being and he’s the form of causality.
So could I say that language… hold on give me a second here… There was the word before language. There was form and structure before what we perceive to be language. How do you know? How do you know that? Well, I’m trying to use words to describe the logos.
No, you’re trying to quote iON. You’re quoting iON, I assume. Cool. No, you’re trying to quote iON. You’re quoting iON, I assume. That’s what you’re doing. Cool. All right, fine. No, what’s cool about that? Don’t say cool. What do you think I do with it? We’re trying to define what you’re doing.
And I’m saying that what iON says about the original LOGOS is common knowledge in McLuhan land. Yes. So what do you make of that, Jean? It’s the closest I’ve been to having some sort of perception of that term, logos, itself. What’s the closest? This last five minutes is the closest you’ve been?
Is that what you’re referring to? Yes. This discussion. Well, that’s because you’re in dialogue. You’re too busy reading by yourself, thinking, speculating, going nuts, trying to figure out what these people say, and all you have to do is come on here and talk, and it gets cleared up a little bit. Beautiful.
Well, I know it’s beautiful. Beautiful. We don’t need any descriptions. What are you going to say next? Fine. Beautiful. Well, I know it’s beautiful. Be you-tiful. We don’t need any descriptions. What are you going to say next? Fine. Fine. Jeez. Fine. Wait, you’re trying to stop me?
You’re trying to stop me by saying fine? No, I am not trying to do anything. I am reflecting on the fact that if I embellish in any way whatsoever I get a comment from you this evening and that’s that’s fine. Yeah your embellishment is complicating something you’re not getting the
Original idea. This is really useful for me Bob thank you yes it is that’s true you’re absolutely yeah. Okay so let me read you this part it says as language became separated visually from the person who uttered it. That was through writing. You no longer were uttering it, you were writing it.
So it was separated from your mouth. So Eric says, well who is it? No, this is Eric Havelock saying this, a scholar of the alphabet. He says, as language became separated visually from the person who uttered it, so also the person, the source of the language, the person, the source of
The language, came into sharper focus and the concept of selfhood was born. The history of Greek literature is often written as though the concept was already available to Homer and as though it should be taken for granted as a condition of all sophisticated discourse.
The early lyric poets of Greece have been interpreted as the voice of an individualism asserting the identities of individual selves to form a necessary condition of Greek classic culture. This, in any strict sense, only became true in the time of Plato. So, Havelock is saying
The idea of individualism that came in with the alphabet and writing that Plato solidified is projected back to Homer and people before Homer. And Eric Havelock is saying no, the guys back in Homer’s time did not have that sense of individuality. Wow, that’s fascinating. Right. Well, I’m glad that spoke to you.
That’s, yes. That, when you were reading, when you were saying those words, what came to me was this, we noticed this intertwining of all of, oh geez, now I have to be specific with my words here. The synchronicities that a number of forcelings are taking for granted now,
And we talk about it here on payday. Things happen and I’m no longer surprised and amazed by them. I just kind of take it for granted like okay that is right here and I just had a thought about it and
So it appears. It’s an inter… What you just said was that, and I’m going to use old terms that you’re probably not going to agree with, but there was something about collective consciousness before people started writing words to describe collective consciousness. And as we become more, what?
As I start becoming more aware of my patterns and dissolving them and replacing them with patterns that, or I don’t know, replacing them in some sort of way because I listen to payday all the time and listen to you all the time. I’m experiencing a new intertwining of that old term collective consciousness.
Do you have anything to say to what Pete is saying, Roxy? No, but I have something to say about the song that I asked you to play. Yes, go ahead. This, what was it, Radio Kill the Movie Star? Video Kill the radio star. Okay, then whatever. It’s how the new
Media kill the last creation and then we are at the point where the non-physical is sort of killing the media star that we call God. Because how can there be a God if we are in our power? How can you accept there is something outside you that is creating reality?
And you have to be in the center of your kingdoms and take that role. So, because I was thinking about these things during the week, I understood that song. Like that. So what did you say? God, or Iron killed the media? What was your last stage?
The media star, or what was the song? Radio, video killed the radio star? Yes. Yes, like God was the radio star that is like Nietzsche said, God is dead. But then, I mean, this is something that I’ve been into my whole life, trying to understand these concepts of divinity and the spiritual.
And I am really trying to understand it with I Am. sort of new age talk, but how to talk about this very important thing. Well, McLuhan gives us the way to talk. McLuhan translates iON. As far as McLuhan goes. I mean, iON goes a lot further than McLuhan,
But I find that what Eric is writing here is the closest to what iON is talking about, about the history of the LOGOS. Yes. That’s why I think McLuhan was brilliant in the way he sort of was very coherent with what he believed, like his Catholic humanism and his theories.
He wanted to get to his students and he went to study their culture, the popular culture, the comics, the movies, their music, and then the media. He saw how the advertisement, the slogans are so effective. And he was so brilliant that he sort of created these slogans, the medium is the message.
It’s really encompass the whole exegesis of language and creation. It’s like the genesis. And you were saying, Joyce founders are actually also like a version of the Genesis of the technologies being created and expanding them. Who? Did you say the Joyce scholars? What was that phrase? No, the founders of Joyce.
Yes, the founders, yes thunders acted out. Yes, it’s like another version of the Genesis, all the expansions of man. Right. Okay, Jean, what do you have to say to that? Well, Bob, how would you describe, how would you distinguish the LOGOS from sound,
Acoustics, tone? Sound could be just made by the environment. The LOGOS is the human just made by the environment. The Logos is the human using sound. It’s called naming. So before we use language to name… Does the Pope tell you, Jean, does the Pope tell you that when you speak you create your
Reality? You create a reality, you create what you speak? No. Does the Pope tell you that? No. The Pope doesn’t tell you that. Nope. Does your parents tell you that? No. McLuhan tells you that. McLuhan says that’s
What people believed and lived with, you know, a long time ago. Yeah, but where I’m at, where I’m at right now is… And then, and Gene, and then what happened is that iON showed up claiming it was the original wisdom, and it says that, what the Pope doesn’t say.
So it’s pretty unique what the, what iON says. They don’t say your thoughts create reality, they say your words do. Well, it turns out that McLuhan was writing his PhD about that. Yes. Yeah, but say more about the logos and the word being the word before there were words.
Did you say McLuhan is more about that? Did you just say McLuhan is more about that? Jean, what did you say? You said something is more about it I don’t know what you said. I didn’t say anything about McLuhan. That was Rocky. What did you say? What did you say?
No, just a minute ago. What were your last words? I said that I, right now, I’m in the place of wanting to ask questions about the word before there were words. You said earlier that structure and form was created from the logos, or the logos was involved in creating structure and form
Before there were words as we define words. You’d have to ask Ian that stuff. Really? Okay. Yeah well iON did say that the cells spoke. iON get in here. The L’s spoke, the cells spoke, but before the cells were the frequencies.
That’s what we got you know five months ago. And you’re using, you’re describing that as the Logos. I’m just showing how McLuhan comes pretty close describing what Ayn said for years, that the word creates beings. And the Genesis is technology. So Ayn has come forth to explain formal causality, to fill it out.
If formal causality is you and the audience, then it turns out if you’re God, that you’re the formal causality of yourself. You’re the formal cause. If you’re an eternal God. So formal causality was not discussed for 400 years. It was forgotten during the
Dark age of the printing press. When we got out of the printing press era. So our words as we know them, so Bob our words as we know them were words before words before we, there were words before words as we know them as we define them now.
Well I know there was grunting there was what they called verbum V-E-R-B-U-M verbum is grunts like not linguistic morphemes and that goes back to acoustics and tone and frequency and vibration yeah the logos goes back to acoustics and tone and frequency and vibration. Yeah. The logos.
So, so McLuhan, so iON may go further back than McLuhan, though McLuhan does talk about nonverbal mental dance as ESP. But did your, did your, did your sisters and brothers tell you that your words create beings?
That this world, in the Bible it says God uttered, so the Lord, the God, created the universe by speaking it. Does your local minister say that? Do you point that out? No, and isn’t that amazing Bob, really? That’s really amazing.
Well, it’s not amazing if you realize that when writing came in and then visual space came in with phonetic alphabet and then that was exaggerated by the printing press, you know that the idea of the Logos got changed. Our imagination of what the Logos was changed. Yes, there you go.
Let me refrase that. It is when we recover that. You could say that new medium is a new word. You could say that new medium is a new word. It is the power of the word to create new reality. So the printing press was a word, a odd new mutation of wordiness,
And it created a different kind of people. Okay, so if we’re gonna anticipate rather than retrieve, what’s the next word? I don’t know. Who are you asking? I don’t know. I just said it. You just said it, okay. You don’t know who your audience is.
Let me see, okay, we haven’t started Zappa yet. We haven’t started Zappa yet. Are you ready to start doing Zappa, Roxy? Do you want to go into it? Yes, no, actually we started because it’s about what we call religion and spirituality and God and all these concepts. So maybe you can…
Okay, before we go into this… …start with the heaven. There’s some particular Zappa I want to get into, but I’m going to ask Ginny. I see Ginny’s here. Ginny, do you have something to say about what we’re talking about? Or maybe it’s Greg. They’re not saying anything. Okay. Kyle,
Do you have anything you want to say, Kyle, before we shut down? Yes, two things. John won things John 1 in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God now the Word in the
Greek is logos okay so that’s the Bible now now I got something if you really want to expand your mind beyond all boundaries there was a script written called matrix resurrected and this guy wrote a script to try to get the Wachowski brothers to make a fourth episode of the Matrix
And if you read this script it literally will expand your mind way beyond what everything that we have been talking about includes. Because what he does, he interchanges the people versus the matrix. And then there’s, quote, the reality.
But then he creates a super matrix, whereas the people that are in reality and in the matrix are outside of the matrix and outside of reality. So for example, the architect is Trinity’s father, but the architect is playing the architect’s
Role in the matrix, and Trinity is playing the herald in the Matrix and Trinity is playing the heroine in the Matrix but so you can download this it’s at the matrixresurrected.com
I’ve been wanting to, a few months ago I wanted to talk, try to talk you into reading this on one of your shows, late night shows. And, uh, but, uh, it’s really, it’s really, what is, what, and I think what I’m trying to say here is,
As expanded as we have allowed our minds to become, we still have not even come close to explaining them enough to understand what iON is saying. So for example, when iON says, you weren’t born, well, if we’re in the matrix, we were born. Because that’s the matrix rule.
But if we were outside of the matrix, we weren’t born. So it’s just a matter of where are you in these different realms or different densities or gradients within these universes, super-universes, who knows? We could be a bubble inside a bubble inside a bubble.
And so for him to say that we are gods, that’s easy for me to accept, but I still, to this day, believe that there is a god over me, a super God. I don’t know what to believe. I don’t want to subject myself to that.
I know what you believe. That’s good. All right, so the, um, nobody else has anything to say, so we’re going to start the Zappa scene. I mean, I don’t know whether you think, Roxy, we’re talking Zappa. Can you show me how what we’ve been just talking about the last half hour?
Tell me how this relates to Zappa. Well, both, well, all the vortices, what I call the vortices, Matthew and Joy, Zappa, what I call the vortices, Matthew and Joy, Zappa, they were all trying to understand what is this reality, what is the human, and translate it and explain to the tribe
The big note and concepts that Zappa had a whole agenda that was not maybe that evident and sometimes you just see the satire when he talks about the cosmic debris and how we are lost in the whirlpool and for example when he sings Stairway to Heaven he makes a satire of the song.
But these things, he talks a lot about these things and he will present them as jokes, as satire, but actually to make you think about those things. He was not only talking about sex, drugs, and rock and roll at all. He was really going even into the metaphysical.
He was really interested in UFOs and all these things and since he was very young he was into science fiction and monster movies and his brother said it’s partly all of just his curiosity of trying to understand all these things
But he was also when he was very young, very mystical. So there was really this need to understand this aspect that we call the non-physical. Okay, hold it Bob. You asked me to… I got to mute some people. Muting everybody. I’m going to mute everybody. Bob, wait. Bob. What, what Jean?
Was, was Frank taking a new approach to LOGOS, to the LOGOS? Perhaps. He did say, he did ask is GOD ESP? That’s a question he asked on the United Meditations membership form. He’s God ESP. That’s one of the few times he talked about God. Okay, you can mute me now. Yeah.
Okay, I’m muting everybody. And, Roxy, you said let’s begin with Stairway to Heaven. So I’m going to play that. Okay. Marcy, you said let’s begin with Stairway to Heaven. So I’m gonna play that, okay? Oh wait, I think I muted you, just a second. Yes, I think I unmuted you.
Right, you wanted to hear Stairway to Heaven, correct? Yes, because we want to talk about these things that are sort of taboo, but really to start defining because we need to understand the non-physical and the mystery landscape. So, but we might be doing it not so seriously
To make it less offensive maybe. Yes, I agree. Like Zappa, what did Zappa do? Did he make it offensive or did he make it light? Or did he both? Well, I freedom of speech and his expressions about religion were offensive for many.
But he was actually trying to make people really think about these things and not just to have faith and accept things blindly but to reflect and really understand what is this thing we call God, what is religion, what is the spirit, the replay of reality and the replay of the soul.
Right, so what is the stairway to heaven? Okay, I’m going to play… The big notes. Yes, the big notes. So I’m going to put you on mute so we have a clear hearing of the song. Okay, Roshni, did you know that iON analyzed
The lyrics to Stairway to Heaven? Yes, I never heard that but it’s like I have it here I have it here I decided we’re going to play it we’re going to listen to it we’re going to listen to iON explain the lyrics
And then figure out if this had anything to do with Frank because Frank plays the song but how interested was he in the lyrics but we do have eye on
Is this a meme we are talking about all the time about the replay and the mirrors in this album, the best band you’ve never heard. She’s just making covers and making this replay of big things.
Okay. Just before we start, I want to ask Leslie, who saw Frank perform in 1964-65 in the Broadside, before they were the mothers. Are you here to say something about Frank, Leslie? I think he’s on delay. Leslie! Hello?
Yeah, is that Augie? Uh, this is Leslie’s house, yeah. This is JD. I’m Leslie and Augie’s friend. Frank, does Leslie want to say something about Frank? Does Leslie want to say something about Frank? Are you here to say something about Frank, Leslie? Is that you? Does he think that Is that you?
Does he think that I’m you? Are you talking to me? I’m JD. I’m talking to Leslie. Okay. I just saw Leslie’s name there. I thought she might, I always respect what she has to say about Frank. Leslie, Leslie, I’m calling from Leslie’s house.
Because I’ve never really seen you before and then you were dancing tonight. And I just want to let you know that you rock and that was like super awesome The way you dance was trying to keep up with you
Whatever your age is I’m only hoping I can go half as much as you’re doing and I love your show I’ve never seen it before but August showed me it and Leslie I’m up in the Salmon River and we’re listening to you and
Watching you dance before and you rock out and it’s like if you keep on going I’m gonna keep on going. Your name is JD? Yeah I’m JD. Okay I appreciate your words thanks for complimenting me on my actions and yeah keep watching. All right I’m gonna mute you
Because we’re doing a special on Zappa and I wanna go into our next item. So thanks for your observation. Okay, Jimmy. All right, well, thank you very much. All right. Okay, so Roxy, I hope that you get complimented like that someday.
I hope you get complimented like that someday. I hope you get complimented someday. Yeah.
Okay, since you haven’t heard Stairway to Heaven as analyzed by iON, explaining what Led Zeppelin, whoever wrote the song, I don’t remember which guy wrote it, what they meant, what they thought they were saying. I found it very interesting that we just found out about this castle and the double helix stairway.
And how this stairway, you can go both up or down. Right. And this is the thing, you can go the stairway to heaven or you can descend into the darkness like in the ninth gate. Like chromosome 14? Yes. Yes. Okay, so you don’t mind hearing this stairway to heaven analysis?
No, of course. It’s just perfect. Okay, so let’s do it and if it’s not boring we’ll listen to the whole thing, which is just over an hour long, but it might be interesting. I don’t remember. I think it’s the most perfect thing. Okay, we wanted to hear the song.
Yeah, we now have the song. We heard the song. But I don’t have to sing about this, there way. All right, here we go. All right, I’ll put you on mute, and I’ll bring up the sound system, SoundFlower, and have this up.
And this, that one’s off. I think I’ve got everything off. Here we go. This is session 165, recorded on October 3rd, copyright 2009, New Grandview Incorporated, all rights reserved, and we’re starting at 6.44pm Hawaii time. Greetings iON.
Good morning. iON, we have Carolyn and Bob here and a new friend, Jonathan, who has actually talked to you before occasionally I guess. And we’re going to see if Jonathan wants to lead off with some topics. I was thinking he has some expertise in Egypt.
If he wants to go into that, that’s good. If he’s still interested in that or whatever else he wants to do. So, Johnson, take it away. Greetings, iON. Lady who’s sure that all that glitters is gold. Now wait. We’re going to do it line by line. Okay.
So, there is a lady who’s sure that all that glitters is gold. And that’s referring to the lame? Uh-huh. What’s the reference? What’s lame? Gold lame. See, see, see, see, Johnson, see how you, you got it right. Oh, the lame. Like, like Elvis. Just lame, L-A-M-E, or, you mean clothing? Yeah. Okay, gotcha.
Shirt, the ladies’ shirt. Gotcha. Yeah, okay, got shirt the ladies shirt gotcha Garment was sparkly so gold let me right It’s not gold, but it gives the ladies shirt now through the light again There’s a lady who sure all that glitters is gold
So you’re saying like you’re referring to it’s referring to to the shirt? Yes. That she’s wearing. No, it doesn’t say that she’s wearing it, it just says she shares gold. But we are. Oh, okay. Okay. Go ahead. Yeah, you’re describing what is in the writer’s mind, right, I am? Uh-huh. Yeah.
And she’s buying a stairway to heaven. Correct. With her gold lame. Uh-huh. Or what she thinks of her lame? Let’s see. See, what she thinks of her lame would be significant enough to cause an exchange for eternity. Okay. See, when you start looking at it that way, it’s kind of like going,
Wow, how did you get that from there? But you just did line one, so proceed. When she gets there, she knows if the stores are all closed… Hmm? Literally. Literally. With a word, she can get what she came for. There you go. Bam. Spot on. That’s why that’s in your melting titanium.
Now just hang on, Jonathan, we’re going to digress a second. That’s why this gets to be very significant within your melting titanium. Because what’s significant, Bob? We’ll put Bob on the hot seat here. What’s significant about that, out of all that so far,
What was significant in the words that are spoken so far from the peapod? Well, what’s interesting is that it makes sense that it’s referring to Gola Mae because you start talking about a clothing store on the next slide. Wrong answer. No, she’s not talking about a clothing store.
She’s talking about it’s significant because even if everything’s closed down, she can still get what she’s came for because what she has is so… No, no, no. What does she have? The Lemaître? No, what does she have? Her… Will? No, her… What is the word that they use? Uh… For reference to what?
Knowledge? No, what’s the word? Read it again and I’ll stop you when you get to the word. Um, the last line or the whole thing? You’ve only done two sentences. Read it again and I’ll stop you when you get to the word. The last line or the whole thing?
You’ve only done two sentences. There’s a lady who’s sure all that glitters is gold and she’s buying a stairway to heaven. When she gets there she knows that the stores are all closed with a word she knows. What was that word?
There it is. I know we told you three times but you won’t believe us so we had to use yours. The word was enough. The word was enough. The word was enough. Referring to her word though, not, not, not. That’s the only one we’re talking about. I’m sorry, I don’t understand.
That’s the only one we’re talking about. The inference is that her, even if the stores are all closed, her word, word, her spoken word is enough to procure all that she desires. Is that because of she has power? Yes.
But you’re not talking about just in herself, you’re talking about in all humans, correct? That’s why everyone would try to want to own a copy of the Stay Away Too Hip-Hop. Okay, what did you just say, Jonathan? Referring to what? Her what? I was saying it wasn’t referring to that she had the…
It’s saying that she has a state of power but no more than any other human. Correct. Not like she’s a… Superstar. Yeah, yeah, superstar or what she is. But so is everyone. Yeah, but how come her, she can get to the store when it’s not open?
Because she has the will, because she’s human. She has the word. Her word would make it so, number one. She has empowerment? Yes. In the self love? No more than anyone else, it’s just correct. Same way with Thoth and the capital M-A-N.
Just like any other man, only they’re ascended in their word and they know their word is powerful enough that the store doesn’t have to be open for them to have all that they desire speak She’s an ascended woman you’re saying We’re on the third line Bob
Well, well, we’ve got this far though. Are you saying she’s a sentence? She’s not ascended. She just has the power She knows her abilities. Okay, her power is made manifest because of her knowing. Okay. I mean it says knows a lot in this song. Okay, good, good.
Then it says ooh, ooh, and she’s by. No, no, it’s ooh, ooh. Actually it’s oh. Oh. Oh. Like if you stamp your toe you say oh. Yeah, it’s oh. Oh. It’s O-O-H. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Okay, good, that was out of the part of that. Go ahead.
There’s a sign on the wall, but she wants to be sure, because you know sometimes words have two meanings. Oh, not duality. Not duality. My goodness. This is um, she’s clarifying on what she wants. She’s just, no, she wants to be sure what she wants. But that’s not clarifying. No, no. Right. Okay.
In a tree by the road… Okay, now I’m waiting for you to finish. Now, let’s hear the lyric again, that part lyric again that part of what you guys just said. There’s a sign on the wall… Okay, Connie, simmer down over there. She’s highly aflame, anybody, and he’s the one yelling at Stevie.
Turn it off, I’ll have the mic. Okay, put me on mute. There’s a sign on the wall, but she wants to be sure, because you know sometimes words have two meanings. Oh, I see. She wanted to be sure of something. Okay. Sure. She wanted validation of her creation. A validation of creation.
Her creation. Right. And she didn’t want to include the vilifying that’s in every process of validation. But there’s a sign on the wall. Yeah, is that the sign on the clothing store or the storehouse? No, Bob, no, Bob, no, that’s the mind of reason. That’s the consciousness
That he accepts. He’s being too literal about it, isn’t he? No, it’s alright, it’s okay. We begin there. They were too. We begin there. They were too? You’re saying Led Zeppelin was literal too? Yeah. Yeah, you’re saying Led Zeppelin? The literal two.
Yeah, you’re saying the sign on the wall represents the mind of reason. Yes, there’s a sign, no spitting on the wall. Right, the public safe. Well, Natalie, I did a lot with the wall as well. I understand. Hold on. No, no, that’s Siegfried. Okay, hold on.
That’s the children. That’s the children here at the wall, pass and go. There we go with National Treasure again. What did you say? Well actually it was long before National Treasure. He said here at the wall and pass and go, both were clues in the movie National Treasure.
Yes, but they were around before National Treasure. But is he quoting the Pink Floyd song, The Wall? No, no, no. He was, he went on it and then expanded it. He’s given the empirical reference that they were trying to do in National Treasure as well. What is National Treasure? That movie, Nicolas Cage.
Okay, gotcha. So let’s go back to the lyric. We’re up to speed here. There’s a sign on the wall, and that’s what is. And she wanted to be sure that what she was reading was fitting with what she was trying to know. Okay. That’s good.
In a tree by the brook, there’s a songbird who sings. Sometimes all our thoughts are misgiven now wait does it say what color the bird is? no. okay does it matter what color the bird is? with references yes. but in this reference? no. okay very good
That’s and that’s pretty literal because they’re using the brook as physical. And they’re using a tree standing by the water that shall not be moved. It becomes a stasis. You know what stasis is? A point, a fixed point, correct?
Correct. And that’s why it comes back to, it’s not like a sign that they could put no spitting on the floor, or no dancing on the tables with spurs. It’s subjective. That brings it back to a given, unchangeable, empirical point of reference. The labyrinth of the mind? That’s founded.
It’s not a labyrinth if you know the start point. You see, that’s the beginning of the labyrinth. All right, so now with that in mind, say the lyrics again, that sentence. In a tree by the brook there’s a song bird who sings sometimes all of our thoughts are misgiven that’s the
Labyrinth of the mind Bob the misgiven thoughts no no that the thoughts are misgiven yeah right so it begins with the solidity of the tree versus the brook. Something like that? No. Those are constants. Those are fixed. Those are. The tree and the brook are both constant.
Yes, but the bird may or may not be in the tree, but they’re saying the bird is in the tree. So, okay, that’s also given. But what does the bird say? Jonathan, it sings. And what’s the point of the singing? What is what about that? It brings joy. No, Bob, no.
Just say the lyrics. What does the lyrics really say? Okay. In a tree by the brook, in a tree by the brook, there’s a songbird who sings. Sometimes all of our thoughts are misgiven. Some of our thoughts are all misgiven. Sometimes all of our thoughts. Sometimes. That’s the labyrinth part. Right.
It’s actually, you got nature, which is solid, so to speak. Yeah. You could even say it’s time. It’s created. No, it’s not. No, it’s not. No, Bob. No, no, no.
Okay, I tried to slip it in. You can’t, you can’t get in. No, Bob, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yes, and they kept layering it from known, known, known, until it got to the bird in
The tree and that was subjective. The reason the bird was in the tree is because they said it was. And then the then, then, then, then with all these knowns, then they bring in and the song that the bird sings can give misgivings. Right, and is the bird the… Uh… What’s bird symbolized?
Is the bird the mind of reason? Yes. Ah! Yes, the whole tree and the river and the bird are the mind of reason. No, just the bird. Because the bird gives misleading thoughts, correct? Correct. I was thinking the bird’s the thing that knows that you project your own labyrinth of imagination
In there, labyrinth of your mind. Well, so does your mind. Yeah, so the bird is pointing, is the mind of reason commenting on the labyrinth of the mind? Correct. Very good. So the bird is pointing, is the mind of reason commenting on the labyrinth of the mind? Correct. Very good.
The next lyric is, oh, as before, it makes me wonder, oh, it makes me wonder. Wonder, wonder, as in wonder about, or wonder as in give hard thought regarding, or wonder as to question. I think it’s the question. Well, but see, do we… You need the spelling? No, that’s not clear.
And they actually lead you down, the song will go on, you’ll come back to be very interestingly amazed with that little insight, but it’s okay for writing this up second. Yeah, you’re saying the insight is that it’s not certain what wonder is referring to. Correct. It’s wonder.
It actually is what the bird says. Where does this line up about the multiple meanings? Who said the multiple meanings line? It’s earlier, it actually says, because you know sometimes it has the meaning. Yeah, yeah, see? So they throw in a word that could have more than one meaning.
And they use that as like the chorus. Oh, all the way through, okay. Yes. Well, there it is, that’s the expression. I like that one. You’ve never heard this song before, and you’ve introduced it every week on your Mountainside Dating show. I don’t know the lyrics. Here’s what I know about it.
I wasn’t a big fan of Led Zeppelin. I didn’t even know. I remember in the 1890s in Toronto, whenever they had the votes for the best number one song of all time, but it wasn’t no big deal. And I certainly didn’t hear the lyrics or even notice them.
But when Zappa did it in Buffalo in March 88, and Carol was there, and they did the most incredible, and you can see this online, I can show it to you, Jonathan. They did an incredible version of it. Then I remember the line, makes you wonder, and they worked with that.
So that’s all I know. And… makes you wonder and they work with that so that’s all I know and uh… It’s so funny because Jonathan, Bob was saying that this reference was going to be recorded with posterity and forever and it’s going to be in the The Akashic Records
Historical record and he just said that before when he, he’s going to fight about this, but he’s fascinated about it. But when he goes back and listens next August the 17th of the next year and he hears this, he’s going to remember that he actually said in 1890.
And that’s going to be so much fun because he’s the one trying to give time and then he takes, he just takes them right back to the 1890s and we didn’t say a word. He also said to me, don’t let me finish. Right, don’t let me finish. I said that?
Yeah, it’s so much fun. I said don’t let me finish? I was about to take you up on your offer. What is 1890? What was I supposed to be saying? Well, 1980 I think. 1980. Oh, 1990. Yeah. Was I referring to when we were in March and in Buffalo?
You were referring to when Zappa did the cover. 1988. I said 1890? Well, that shows you I’m roof-bobbing. Right here, boys. We have a public evidence. So there’s four bobs here talking to you guys. So that was his property. It was the empirical reference to time and we just left it right alone.
We just see, we don’t always push against time Bob. Yeah, when you set me up. Back in 1433 when I was with John Lennon. When you were just a boy.
Well, J.W. will get his reference when he listens to it later, but back in, right now when John Lennon was at Michael Jackson’s funeral. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. But, well. What are you saying? Are you finishing your thoughts? Michael’s funeral or someone else’s funeral? Michael’s funeral. Oh, what’s your point? Did he die?
My point was that if people were misplacing time earlier to prove it, I mean to back up the no time, I don’t want to say theory, but fact. At the funeral? You’re saying, are you referring to some public event?
No, uh, someone said that they heard that John Lennon was going to be at the Michael’s funeral. Uh, I don’t know if that’s true. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know.
I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t want to say theory but fact. At the funeral? Are you referring to something like a menace? No, someone said that they heard that John Lennon was going to be at the Michael Jackson funeral in person physically.
Right, and they didn’t know when he was… They didn’t realize that he’s dead. Okay, good. So let’s carry on with the lyrics. There’s a feeling I get when I look to the west. Whoa! What’s going on with the lyrics? There’s a feeling I get when I look to the west. Whoa! Feeling.
There’s a feeling place. A feeling, feeling, a feeling place. Now is that a documentable sign on the wall, attribute of reality? Not yet. But it’s a feeling when you look to the West. West. Now Bob, just leave it alone. Because Bob doesn’t do well with geographic directions. So just leave it be.
It rhymes with what they’re doing next and that’s why it’s the West. So, no, the wind isn’t blowing from that direction, Bob, so you’re okay. And my spirit is crying for the leaving. Crying for the leaving? No, for leaving. Sorry, I put it in a D. Ahhhh. For a leaving? No, for leaving.
Now there’s a feeling that my spirit is crying for leaving. So it left the feeling? No. No, the the feeling? No. No, the spirit left? Yes. Huh. It’s kind of like the American Pie. Oh, but they, yeah, they don’t like that. They don’t like us when we do that.
When we mix that one up. Who’s that? You and, you and you. Kellen? Me and Kellen? Oh, Connie’s all eaten. You mean you and you and Me and you? Me and you. If there’s no time, I’ll eat it. You and you are the two bobs.
Yes, there’s now four of them, just two of them. Okay, back to, say the sentence again, now that we’ve got a few interpretations. Certainly, feeling I get when I look to the west and my spirit is crying for leaving. Why, is it crying because it can’t experience the feeling anymore? No, no.
Because the spirit, the spirit is crying for leaving. I’m not crying for leaving. I’m crying for leaving. I’m not crying for leaving. I’m crying for leaving. I’m crying for leaving. I’m crying for leaving. I’m crying for leaving. I’m crying for leaving. I’m crying for leaving. I’m crying for leaving. I’m crying for leaving.
I’m crying for leaving. I’m crying for leaving. I’m crying for leaving. I’m crying for leaving. I’m crying for leaving. I’m crying for leaving. I’m crying for leaving? Why, um, is it crying because it can’t experience the feeling anymore? No, no. Because the spirit, the spirit left the West. Mmm.
Uh oh, that sounds like the last resort. Let’s not go there. No, no, that would be the reverse of the last resort. Right. Okay, so the spirit left the West. The feeling, right. The feeling, so while he looks to the West, the feeling is that of remembering the West. Yeah.
Okay, so would that mind read it? Um, there’s a feeling I get, I’m probably going to have this memorized by the time I’m done with this. There’s a feeling I get when I look to the west and my spirit is crying for leaving. Yeah, go ahead.
In my thoughts I’ve seen rings of smoke through the trees and the voices of those who are standing, who stand looking, and it makes me wonder, really makes me wonder. You want me to repeat that again? Yes, it’s not wonder, it’s not wonder, it’s not that wonder.
Remember we made reference to the wonder, wander, waning, waxing, that whole twist. Because now it’s starting to show up as an anomaly. How do you want me to pronounce it? We don’t care, we’re just making reference to notice it. And then you make your own, you’re Marvel’s creator, make up your own mind.
You’re saying it’s becoming one meaning. Yes, and that’s the whole twist, because it’s not specific, because they use it many, many ways. Like wandering or wondering. First time. But the second time. So each stand is kind of drawing it together, correct? Trying to, yeah. Trying to. Trying to aim it up, yes.
In my thoughts, I’ve seen rings of smoke through the trees, I’ll leave it there. Does that go back to the original tree with the bird? Yes. And the constant? Yes. Rings of smoke. Joy, rings of, that reminds me of the Across the Universe song, which I wanna do that one too,
If we have time. Rings of smoke, that’s not… um… clouding. Oh, we don’t have time. Right. Did I say time again? No, I did, I did. Oh, no, but the, um… the rings of smoke, are they getting in the way? Are they, are they, um… Ephemeral? Lightning.
Are they like, rings like in Across the Universe, or like rings of joy, or eyes of joy? Yes. They are? Lightning. Are they like rings like in across the universe or like rings of joy or eyes of joy? Yes. They are? Okay. They’re adding to the experience, Bob. Okay.
And then the next program passing fancy that enlightens or increases the visual effect of the pictorial that’s trying to be sung. Right. So now we’ll hear the whole thing with that in mind. Oh, oh, okay. In my thoughts I am seeing rings of smoke through the tree. Wait. Where did you see it?
In my thoughts. Now your thoughts are taking, we had a feeling. Yes. So now it’s becoming more physical. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, more mental. Well, no, it was mental. You had a feeling. No, no, no, no. More mental. Well, no, it was mental. You had a feeling. Yes. Okay.
You had a remembering. Then you had a feeling. And now your thoughts are… Well, isn’t a feeling more spiritual than… No. No. No. I was wondering if it was more… It can become it. It can… You can get… You can get your… You can make…
You can get so far that your karma can run over your dogma. But that’s not about that. It’s about… It’s about… It’s about… It’s about… It’s about… You can get so far that your karma can run over your dogma. But that’s not about that.
You’re having a remembrance, then you’re having a feeling, and then those are all easy. Now there’s a sign, but we’re not sure. We think. That’s the memory part. The word, the word, the word, and now you have this whole next stage to now where the thoughts are. Okay.
Now thoughts are, that’s not a sign on the wall, that’s not a feeling place. Now thought is. A knowing, I think I think I know. Yeah, and trees are also another thing in this. But, yes, but to see how it’s being developed here.
Yeah, we’ve got an R, the level of knowing going on, kind of. It’s not knowing, it’s a substantiating of thought, is. Is this kind of going through, is this song kind of going through the process of manifestation?
Well, no. Manifestation is after the fact. You actually can do it before it manifests, according to this song. Right, but what did the makers… the makers weren’t thinking of manifestation. They were. Oh, okay. They were. Alright, so let’s hear that last… the third phase with that in mind.
I’ll read the whole thing, well the last whole thing I’m going to read. In my thoughts I have seen rings of smoke through the trees and the voices, and the voices of those who stand looking. And it really makes me wonder,
Really makes me wonder. Which is more now, which is in this stanza more about wondering than questioning. Yeah. And it’s because now you’ve substantiated that thoughts are and that really gets to confuse you in a bit.
Because it’s like, okay, I knew what I knew and then I have a feeling about what I knew and now I think I know what I feel and when I think I know what I feel, I wonder. Okay. Rather than I think I think I know,
It becomes I think I think I wonder. Yeah, and that’s the part I think will get Bob riled up a little bit. Imagine that. And it’s whispered that soon, if we all call the tune, then the piper will lead us to reason. Correct. There you go. There you go. There you…
In place, right? There you go. Is that the transition from the labyrinth of the mind back to the mind of reason? Well it’s not even that hard, Bob. It’s the Pied Piper. That would be the mind of reason.
Well it is the mind of reason and then that’s what validates the signs on the wall. That validates your memory of your feeling that thoughts are. And all call to tune, does that mean if we all can recognize this. If you can make a meme of it, if it’s memeable.
Very good, so let’s hear that last part with that in mind. Um, and it’s whispered that soon, if we all call the tune, then the piper will lead us to reason. Yeah, that’s a process of a private thought becoming a meme.
That’s it. And the meme in this particular place is validation of creation. That’s what you haven’t got to yet.
That’s what you haven’t got to yet. When you think about it that way you’re kind of like going, wait a second, you mean this crazy devil worshipping group of satanic cult archetypal grittist. and can figure this out and can put it out for everybody to listen to
And then you have these stoned out acid rockers who didn’t know where they were that were actually getting Creation’s story right there in the middle of their acid trip. Is that a 3-2-1 process or are they three? It’s a three. Yeah, three. There’s that three again.
Stairway to Dobstown, three it. Or are they three? Three. Yeah. Three. Three. There’s that three again. Stairway to Dobstown. Three it. Stairway to Dobstown with no return address. So what? Okay, that’s very good. So it’s um… Now, now, now, now. Read it again. Okay.
Actually, actually, now we’ve gotten to enough of a place. Start from the beginning, beginning. And we won’t stop you or interrupt you. I promise. Let you get all the way through with what we’ve got. Okay.
So, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so,
Um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um,
So, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, so, um, to enough of a place, start from the beginning, beginning,
And we won’t stop you or interrupt you, I promise, let you get all the way through with what we’ve done so far, then all of a sudden you can go, wow, I never thought about that way. Wait, before I start, Irony, can you make Bob promise? Uh, I can’t. Promise what?
That he’ll be quiet till he gets home. Oh, I’m disrespectful. There’s a lady who’s sure that all that glitters is gold and she’s buying a stairway to heaven. When she gets there she knows if the stores are all closed with a word she can get what she came for.
Oh, oh, and she’s buying a stairway to heaven. There’s a sign on the wall, but she wants to be sure, because you know sometimes words have two meanings. In the brook, in the tree by the brook, there’s a songbird who sings. Sometimes all of our thoughts are misgiven. Ooh, it makes me wonder.
Ooh, it makes me wonder. There’s a feeling I get when I look to the West and my spirit is crying for leaving. In my thoughts I have seen rings of smoke through the trees and the voices of those who stand looking. And it makes me wonder, really makes me wonder.
And it’s whispered that soon if we all call the tune, then the piper will lead us to reason and When you cut me off for this stanza ended So I’ll finish the stanza and a new day will dawn for those who stand long and the forest will echo with laughter
Yeah, we stopped you there on purpose because that was if we we wanted to catch you all the way up for this new place if we wanted to catch you all the way up to this new place.
I caused a little interruption there. I’m going to rewind it so nothing is missed. We’ll go back a minute. As he was reading the lyrics. Okay. They don’t make a riot till he gets home. Oh, I’m respectful.
There’s a lady who’s sure that all the glitters is gold and she’s buying a stairway to heaven. When she gets there she knows if the stores are all closed with a word she can get what she came for. Oh, oh, and she’s buying a stairway to heaven.
There’s a sign on the wall but she wants to be sure because you know sometimes words have two meanings. In the tree by the brook there’s a songbird who sings, sometimes all of our thoughts are misgiven. Ooh, it makes me wonder, ooh, it makes me wonder.
There’s a feeling I get when I look to the west and my spirit is crying for leaving. In my thoughts I have seen rings of smoke through the trees, and the voices of those who stand looking, and it makes me wonder, really makes me wonder.
And it’s whispered that soon, if we all call the tune, then the piper will lead us to reason. And you cut me off for this stanzaanza and so I’ll finish the stanza and a new day will dawn for those who stand long and the forest will echo with laughter.
Now we stopped you there on purpose because we wanted to get you all the way up for this new place, new place, new place. Now you have Bob, you’re welcome to join again. Now, you’re talking about transition. You couldn’t have the transition till you got to the coda.
They didn’t want to take you down that path until you got the first parts down. So now read just the last stanza. You’re calling up the coda. Yeah, like in music where you have to go to, you play to the coda, then you go back to the beginning,
Then you go play to the end, then you go back to the beginning, then play to the coda, then you skip to the end. Gotcha, yeah. And boy, no problem. Yeah, but what’s the, I thought the end was the coda, but you said you go to the end.
No, no, no, the coda is a part somewhere, normally in the middle of the music that when you get to it, you skip all the way to the end. When you get to it, when you redo it and you come to the coda, then you jump the rest and get to the end.
You jump to like five bars before. Okay, because I’m thinking that there’s this remorse slightly, the spirit is leaving and then that’s like the disease or the problem and then he has a solution by the end which is what you’re going to read.
And a new day will dawn for those who stand long and the forest will echo with laughter. Stand long. Uh huh. Wendell can you elaborate? Sure. Be mindful of your eternalness. Uh huh. Stand long in like a metronome sense of time. Exactly. Be mindful of your eternalness.
Stand long in like a metronome sense of time. Exactly. As a whole note rather than 16 quarter notes. I had to put that metronome sense of time, didn’t I? Mm-hmm. Good, good, good, good, good. So you want to read?
Have I too day-wooled on a new mind of reason or am I reading too much of the book? Say it again. No, no, no, no, don’t say it again. It’s not that. It’s transition. Okay.
If, it’s an if clause, if you can recognize that there is eternalness, stand long, eternally, Then what happens? The forest will echo with laughter. That’s exactly correct. Meaning it will be happier. No, meaning that you can hear the trees speak.
And they will, and they do. But the forest goes back to the trees with the constant. It’s the tree by the brook which is a given. It’s a given. Nobody’s fighting against the tree and the brook. Now the birds, they can question, but they can’t fight with the tree.
The tree is. And the brook is. Even though they created it. That becomes the standard. And the standard, that’s like the sign and the reason and the word having a resolute substantiation so we got that far now where if you can get that far then there’s a new transition that is making
Being made available yeah then the trees come alive. So now, at this point, which one would be the protagonist? Just before you say that, what I mean by the trees come alive, you start to interact with what you thought was a given stable thing.
You’re now becoming aware of your interaction and co-creation with… So you’re questioning the constant. Yes. Yeah. We are questioning the constant? Yes. Yeah. And that… We are questioning it. The constant has been… It’s no longer a constant, just like time was a constant. But, I mean, people think it’s a constant.
The mind of reason does, but it’s not. Yeah, that’s what I mean. The first part is a statement. It’s an image of time, a frozen stance. And it comes alive in the last section. And that’s the new being. And, right, we’re actually at the guitar solo
Now so that it may… Well I don’t want to get ahead of myself, never mind. Yeah, but when you get… But right now the thinning of the veil is making the earth start to laugh. No, no it’s not, it’s making… The earth is already happy, correct? We’re just seeing
It. You’re just noticing it. Yeah, yeah, okay yeah okay yeah we’re noticing it now. The earth isn’t laughing at us. I’m not laughing at it. I’m vibrating and interacting and responding to it. You’re looking at the sign and you’re questioning whether the signs are right
So you want to be sure yeah and once you get sure that your word can open the store and you don’t even have to give the shirt off your back in exchange thereof then you start coming back to the constants that are like the brook and the tree
And then all of a sudden the forest can start speaking to you and laughing with you. Is this kind of like they’re questioning the constant of I think therefore I am? No, no. It’s more like the landing in the staircase. Remember this is a stairway to heaven.
So if you go up so many steps and then there’s a landing so you can catch your breath, that’s what this is. And then when you get so far up you’re elevated from where you were but you’re not there yet. So it’s like an elevated point of perception. Precisely. Mm-hmm. Go ahead.
If there is a bustle, bustle, B-U-S-T-L-E, bustle, bustle. Bustle. Like, you know, a bustle in the crowd, isn’t that? A rustle and bustle. Oh, you mean like on the back of a dress? Oh, yeah. Yeah. If there’s a bustle in your headgrove, H-E-D-G-E-R-O-W. Okay. Headgrove.
No, say that again. E-W. Okay. Head Grove. No, say that again. E-H? H-E-D-G-E-R-O-W. Head Gero. Head Gero. Head Gero. Head Gero. Don’t be alarmed now. Is that the… have we come to the end of the lyrics? No, no, no, no, no. We’ve got another guitar solo and another couple of stanzas. Oh, okay.
I didn’t know that. So this… I never heard of these things. Head Gero. Okay. Head Gero. Head Gero. Head Gero. Head Gero. Head Gero. Head Gero. Head G got another guitar solo and another couple of stands. Oh, okay. I didn’t know that. So this, I never heard of these things.
Head grow. Okay, so what is this thing? I think it means, I think it’s actually like a head row. Oh. Head row. Yeah, yeah, head row. Yeah. But it actually does say head row. We were doing doing different, we were separating the different syllables. Okay, so do, do.
So it’s saying don’t be afraid of something, don’t be afraid of the new experience. No, no, what did they mean? What did they say? You haven’t finished it, go back, after the guitar solo, you begin. Now do that first part and then we’ll answer all questions.
Okay. If there’s a bustle in your head row, don’t be alarmed now. Okay. That means if there’s a bee in your bonnet, if there’s a contrast that comes along, you’ve already got the trees, you’re talking to the trees and the trees are talking back to you, right?
So you’ve come into that new place. so you come into that new place if you get to that new place and then you get a bee in your bonnet which is the one that’s the one thing yes that’s very good very good Bob redefining and you notice from your new elevated place
Not at the top yet but you’re way further than you were and then you get a bustle in your hedgerow or a bee in your bonnet or a little bit of you get a bustle in your head row or a bee in your
Bonnet or a little bit of contrast or a splinter in your foot or a pain in your back or a broken guitar string in the middle of your throat. A blister on my fingers. Right, right, right. If that happens, don’t be alarmed. It’s okay. You’re just noticing it.
It was actually there all along, but now you’re in an elevated place where you can notice. And if you notice it, don’t be alarmed. That means don’t run back down the steps. Just keep on your ascension process. Okay. Go ahead. It’s just a spring clean for the May Queen. There you go. Perfect.
It’s a spring clean for the May Queen. Did you get that? So it’s just nothing, it’s… No, no, it is something. It is a seasonal response. You know you have seasons. It is a seasonal response. You know you have seasons. It’s a spring clean.
What do you do in the spring? You have spring clean. You move all your furniture out of your house and clean your apartments. Okay? And that’s for the May Queen. Because spring happens in May. Right. Go ahead. Yes, there are two paths you can go by. Oh, now wait a minute. Duality again.
Uh huh. Okay, now you’ve reached the landing. But in the long run, there’s still time to change the road you’re on. Yes, that’s metronome time. Uh huh. The minute repeats the ooh-wee, it makes me wonder. Now go back. Okay. Now Bob., ooh, it makes me wonder. Okay, go back. Okay. Now, Bob? Hello.
He’s taking a break. Hold on. I’m here. Okay. Do you want me to say something? No. We want you to make sure, before we go too much further, if you have questions, we want them engaged.
Well, it’s a very good description of the wanting process, because get so far and then you reassess you redefine and that’s you want to clean it up You want to do it better you want to get it better and that’s a spring clean
It’s a natural cycle you will feel that way once you get your bliss and you’ll feel used to it Then you’ll want to change it a New season comes in. Okay. Now, very good. Alright, that is correct. And paradise isn’t lost. Right. Your definitions change, but now here’s a new…
Oh yeah, so that’s the other point. To know you’re… if you get to a little bit of heaven, you won’t know you’re there unless you get a little contrast.
So naturally you’re going to get some contrast, and this is where it’s interesting. But you get to a little bit of heaven, you won’t know you’re there unless you get a little contrast. So naturally you’re going to get some contrast. And this is quite interesting. But you get to choose.
Once you get the landing, you know, the part way up the stairs, way to heaven, you get a landing, then you get to choose direction. But you don’t worry about that because you still have tick-tock time that you can go down one way or go down another way.
You still got time to go the other way. You can, is this, I’m maybe going up and down but I’m actually, that’s what I’m referring to. Do you mean that I can go up and down the stairs? Sure. Yeah.
Because people get cross ways and get elevated high and lifted up on their, on their, on the purgatory road to heaven and they get so far and they go, wait, I didn’t want this. I have everything.
I wanted, I just wanted to be a superstar. I didn’t want this I have everything I wanted I just wanted to be a superstar I didn’t really want to be the king of the world oh wait no no this
Isn’t what I wanted I was going in this direction I was going this direction. Is that another tie in to the Beatles? I mean just easy we were in a rampage excuse us just a second. No that’s my call to you. It might
Have happened to Beatles but um it happened to Michael Jackson. I think he’s upset that we’re interrupting his recording. No, it’s okay. We do that. We do that. Bob does it all the time and we allow. So it’s okay.
But the point is, is that you have these illusions of grandeur that you proceed toward. And then the next thing you know, they become manifest in your reality and then all of a sudden you go wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, I just wanted a little faith.
No, no, no, no, I just wanted a little money. No, no, no, I just wanted a little happiness. No, no, no, no, I just wanted a little fullness. So it’s not regret but it’s again making sure, making sure, redefining.
It’s redefining, wanting as Bob said earlier perfectly.’s oneing as you’re doing your ascension process. It’s allowing you the idea that if you get a bee in your body, it’s okay to take a break, take the body off, shoo the bee out of it, and you can do that various and different ways,
And there’s still time for you to continue your ascension. Hmm. Alright, continue. You’re hard. No, no, no. Did we get to the end? Yes, you got to see it. No, no, I’ll do it again. Okay. Not the whole thing, just that. The whole thing? Yeah. If there’s a bustle in your hedge grove…
Hedge row. Hedge row, sorry. Don’t be alarmed now, it’s just spring clean, clean for the May Queen. Yes, there are two passions go by, but in the long run, there’s still time to change the road you’re on. Ooh, it makes me wonder. Ooh, ooh, it makes me wonder. Very good.
Then the next answer is, your head is humming and it won’t go in case you don’t know the piper’s calling you to join him. Dear lady, can’t you hear the wind blow and did you know your stairway lies on the whispering wind?
Dad, you understand about what we were talking about from the west. Don’t worry about which way the wind is blowing. If the wind is blowing… wait, wait, wait. Does that go back to the whispering? Yeah. If it’s all whispered? Yeah. So it combines those two analogies? Yes, it does. Okay, so…
And the reason it does is because you’re at an intended level and so your whole concept of reality has been questioned, vilified, validated and verified through those different steps of accentuating if this indeed is the joyful path that is your place of direction or wanting. Now that was a stretch, but
Give us a little of it, but that’s what you’re saying is that what what did they think they were saying that that? And we’re so low conscious to be this was an intimate the trip. Well. No it was not an answer trip. No no Maybe based on the insights from acid trips, maybe
That’s a creation to though, isn’t it? Yeah. I was giving it more of authority, I guess. All right. That’s fine. Giving what more authority? Their knowing of it. The way they could combine where they were to come up with those words that had that meaning,
That could work out a sign to come up with those words that had that meaning that could work out a sign, work out the process. It was completely conscious to us what we were agreeing on. Yeah, and the reference was from realities that people could embrace.
Now did all the members contribute or is there one writer or two of them doing it? Or is it like the Paul McCartney thing? I know the Manny McCartney thing? I know the Linda McCartney thing. Uh… Remember that question when we get to the end.
If you still have that question, we’ll answer it. Okay, so let’s hear the lyric, the stanza again. Okay. Your head is humming and it won’t go In case you don’t know The piper’s calling you to join him dear lady can’t you hear the wind blow
And did you know your stairway lies on the whispering wind guitar solo right now isn’t is that mixing up the labyrinth of mind and the mind of reason there? it’s combining the what do you agree? everything that’s happened before
No it was the last part of the lyric is It’s combining the… Everything that I had before. It was… The last part of the lyric is combining the wind from the west and also the whispering that, you know, from the train it’s a whisper that if we all call the tune… But it
Includes the irritation, the wanting. You get beyond, you come to the extension, so you don’t give that and if you get a bee in your body, that’s not a big deal anymore because Spray and Clean will take care of
That and you still have time to get through this process, but here we go. Wait a minute, so the first lyrics of this, the first part of this stanza is saying that? Yeah. Can you just read the first part? It stanza is saying that? Yeah. Can you just read the first part?
It seems like they’re mocking it. It seems like they’re mocking the… But it’s not. It’s just giving it enough attention. That your stairway to heaven… Basically, the short version is, is that even though you might notice these bees in your body as you ascend, that it’s in the wind is the staircase,
The stairway toward heaven. The wind is or the wind is made of? I mean, what’s the difference? Okay. No, we’re not being cheeky. We’re asking what’s the difference? Um, if it is, it’s more… If it’s made out of wind, it’s not as a big thing as, um…
If it is wind, if it is wind, it’s more uncertainty. Hold on, wait a sec. No, it’s more uncertainty. Wait a second. No, it’s not. Never mind. That would be like saying the plane can fly because of its power, not because of its influence on the wind.
But yet the climb of the plane is based on wind current of where it’s attaching itself to in which context it is. So without the wind, no matter how much power the plane had, it wouldn’t be able to fly. Yes. Correct. Yes.
So if you look at it that way, then it could say, okay, so the stairway to heaven is not on how big is the engine on the 777, the actual… On the wind or the allowment. Wind of the allowment, allowing it to ascend. Allowing it to ascend on the wind.
And then we’d say, instead of emphasis implied, we’d say flatulence required. And we’re on the last stanza now. Okay, wait, no. I’ve drawn up the lyrics here, so I’m looking at them for the first time. Um, your head is humming and it won’t go in case you don’t know.
Yeah, that was the stanza we just went over. Yeah, it won’t, and it won’t go in case you don’t know? What’s the warning? Yes, it won’t, it’s not that it won’t go, it’s not that it won’t go. In case you didn’t know? Is that what, in case you don’t know?
Yes, even though you don’t realize it, that’s still the way it is. Your head is humming and it won’t go? Yes. In case you don’t know? Uh-huh. What is the, is there a problem if it won’t go? Well, you don’t fly. Okay.
Oh, okay, your head is humming and it won’t go. That means you’ve got a problem. Okay, your head is humming and it won’t go. That means you got a problem. Okay, so after the spring thing, you, uh… Uh… This seems to be continuing to saying you gotta be in your bonnet.
It’s another way of saying your head is humming and it won’t go in case you don’t know. That refers, in case you don’t know, to the next line, that Piper is calling you to join him. So it’s like you found your knowing in the headroll stanza.
Now you gotta deal with the mind of reason, the public again. Well, the signs. Yeah, the signs. If you have the actual music itself on this, and then when you get to the point of being through, you can play it,
And the speakers on this are so blasting so it’ll come through for everybody. You might even get a different start. Do you want me to play it through here? No, later when we finish. Later, yeah, but you have time to key it up now. Key it up?
We’ll get it on the thing so you say play and then it’ll play. Okay, go ahead. Okay, your head is hot. Okay, so if there’s a bustle, you’ve got to be in your bunt. Don’t be alarmed. it’s just a spring clean.
Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run there’s still time to change where you’re going and it makes you wonder. Okay, so that’s a little complicated. Don’t think you’re in the minors. Right, and it sort of continues it. Actually, you know what it’s doing?
There’s a warning in the bustle to your labyrinth of mind about how to handle that. Now you’re… If you get lost, don’t worry about it, just go on with it. Yeah. Because now you’re in a stinted place.
But not, yeah, that’s for your labyrinth of mind. a your personal revelation is being pulled into public mean land and you’ve got to figure out your relationship to that. Dear lady, can you hear me? And the difference between where you are and where you in mean land is.
Right. That’s part of the difference between you and you. And that’s the ascension. You sometimes don’t notice that until you start up the stairway to heaven. Right. When you refer to, you often say, the difference between you and you, often say the difference between you and
You, is that the difference between the labyrinth of your mind and the mind of reason? Sometimes. Sometimes. It also can be from where you are and where you want to be. Yeah, within the labyrinth of your mind, you know, it’s the ratios. Maybe, maybe, but it could be as simple as, um, let’s,
Let’s say you and Connie go to fight and how long does that last? About a second because she’ll go to bed and she won’t fight with you. Let’s say how close you are or how far away you are depending on the contrast that you’re trying to make your point.
She’s trying to make her point and she’s trying to let you know that you’re right but you don’t understand the question or you’re trying to tell her that it’s right but you don’t understand the question or you’re trying to
Tell her that it’s okay but I don’t understand this and that the distance between you two sometimes is that distance in the contrast that you’re coming to understand. And sometimes you get it all figured out and everybody’s good and then sometimes you’re
Kind of like, well fine Bob, stay there until you get over it and then you’ll be okay. So the distance between the two is that distance between you and you. Bob is going to let it go or Bob has to be right in the conversation. So that’s a distance between you and you.
And this is probably what this stanza is about? Yes it is. And it’s also the distance of okay here I am snicker bar less. Yeah. Okay and then here I am over here with four snicker bars and I’m swallowing just one right after the other. Now how far is it from here
Where I am without a snicker bar till I get to the place where I am with four snicker bars going down my throat hole one at a time fast. Now that’s a distance too. And you set the rules.
Now the distance is I don’t do snicker bars till I head to the beach and it’s 9 o’clock in the morning. I want a snicker bar now. I can’t go to the beach now. Well, Carolyn did want to go to the beach early. Well, we can work this out.
Hey, Carolyn, I’m about ready to go to the beach. It’s 5, it’s 10, it’s 15, you’re not even awake yet. What are you talking about? No, I think it’d be great.
We’ll go to the beach. I’m not ready to go to the beach. I’m not ready to go to the beach. I’m not ready to go to the beach. I’m not ready to go to the beach early? Well, we can work this out. Hey, Carolyn, I’m not ready to go to the beach.
It’s 5, it’s 10, it’s 15, you’re not even awake yet. What are you talking about? No, I think it would be great. You want to go a little early so you’re not having to come home and then do all the stuff and then try to go to bed at 9.
So, yeah, that would work out great. And then you convince her that you have complied with her request to go to the beach earlier when the reality of it was it was just so the distance between you and you could be closer so you could have your four snicker bars before lunch.
Right, right. That’s the other example of the distance between you and you and the conformity thereof is making that a shorter stance or a longer stance. Right, so that makes sense. Your head is hopping and it won’t go. In case you don’t know, the piper… Wait a minute. Non-physical is making sense. Uh-oh.
Yeah, yeah. Your head… Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha and did you know your stairway lies on the whispering wind? That implies enjoy the ride.
Absolutely. And start laughing with the whisper of the trees. Yeah, of the threeing, three to one or threeing, that’s already been laid out in the previous stanzas. So you now know the process. Yes, but you didn’t up until now. Yeah. Okay, now go ahead. As the wind… No, as the wind…
No, as we wind is what she… As we, sorry. As we wind on down the road, our shadows taller than our soul. Whoa, whoa, whoa. As we, as we continue the path… Mm-hmm. As we wind on the road… Mm-hmm. What was the next phase?
Our shadows taller than our soul. Now wait a minute, the shadows, shadows, shadows, Bob what do you know about shadows? That’s your other selves. Well sometimes shadows are long and sometimes they’re short, but guess what it’s
Actually giving inference to? Well later in the day if you go by the Sun the shadows grow longer because the Sun’s at a different angle. Well the angle is what we’re talking about. Yeah but that’s not, you’re great, that’s perfect but that ain’t what we’re
Talking about. No no no it’s a very very good example because then it’ll let the average people listening to this understand it but it actually actually what it’s giving is once you get to the whisper of the tree, that’s when different worlds can come into your environment.
Because remember this is a stairway to heaven. Heaven is in a different plane. Heaven is in, not a 777, heaven is a different world. Heaven would be a parallelism for this world. Did Lord of Led Zeppelin die in a plane? Did he die at all? It wasn’t a he, it was a group.
I don’t know. Somebody died I think. Even so that would be quite ironic. Right, but the thing iON is that that’s what I mean by shadows, parallel worlds. So you’re agreeing with me. Yes, absolutely. But we can’t. They do it so softly. Yeah. So softly that everybody just goes like, oh, okay, cool.
They mean long shadows, late in the day. Short shadows, top of the day. Mm-hmm. Okay, now that’s good. now continue. If everybody’s good. See, your stairway lies on the whispering wind, there’s the pointing at the parallel
Worlds, and as we wind on down the road, our shadows tar little salt, we now know of the parallel worlds, that’s a given. That’s right, it’s acknowledged, it’s a sign,
It’s a sign, but you’re not sure, but there’s a sign. But you’ve already gotten the whole process of how to know with your word, because you can validate your signage of where the mean is, the difference between where everybody thinks it is and where it is.
You want to know, but then your thoughts are. That’s significant. And then we’ve kind of wound all the way through that even if you start your ascension and have a little contrast, that’s okay too. There’s still tick-tock time to work it out however you want to. And then as you’re ascending,
Then the shadows become long. And that longness of the shadows allow you to participate in ultimate parallel universes that you also have thoroughly, completely, fully created, established, and validated. What’s the next part? There walks a lady we all know. Ah, it’s a recognition point. Okay.
Um, who shines white light and wants to show how everything still turns to gold. Gold. Gold. And if you listen very hard, the tune will come to you at last. When all is one and one is all. When all are one. When all are. I got is. I’m on. Okay.
When all is one or all are one and one is all. Which is it? Mine is, well, we’re about to play the song, so. When all are is one or all are one and one is all. Which is it? Mine is, well, we’re about to play the song so… Alright, let’s hear it.
Yeah, to be… Is and are aren’t the same thing, they’re different tenses. So it’s very interesting that even the… It is very interesting for us, maybe not to you all, you’re all the marvelous creators, you get it all, we’re just trying to help you along here.
But it’s very interesting that the is and the are in this inference is not a duality, it’s a sameness. Because now it’s a contrast straight up, well is it or aren’t?
Well are means that all can, and is means that it might just be in one individual. It’s one lady, but the one lady that’s supposedly explaining that the streets of heaven are made of gold. So are you saying that it doesn’t fit, either doesn’t fit?
Correct. That’s correct. But it’ll be fun to see how they play it out. But it’s just the subtlety of these going through the words themselves, which is great fun. When all is one and one is all, yeah, to be a rock, not to roll. Correct. And she’s buying a stairway to heaven. DC?
In song, but yeah. What is it? A moss grows fat on a rolling stone. How does that work? Is that referring to the band? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, it’s a band. Wits. Ross Groves fad on a Rolling Stone, how does that work? Is that referring to the band?
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, it’s a band witch, but not a band of music. So it’s saying, and it also dives into their genre, rock and roll. But it’s just a cheeky way to make it work.
Okay, well, I guess I’ll play the song now. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, well, I guess I’ll play the song now. No, no, let’s hear the, read the whole thing through now, I mean the last stanza.
The last stanza, okay. As we wind down the road, our shadows taller than our soul, there walks a lady we all know who shines white light and wants to show how everything still turns to gold
And if you listen very hard the tune will come to you at last when all is one and one is all yet to be a rock not to roll and she’s buying a stairway to heaven and guess what that’s the definition of WAP. Definition of what? Guess what that’s a definition of.
Did you say Bob or Wop or? Bob. Oh, Bob. Which line or what is a definition? That last stanza. That’s a very workable, good definition of what you know as alchemy. Right, right. And it’s also summing up the whole process. You’re going to go through
What we’ve learned from all the standards. Turning oxygen into gold, right? Is that what you’re referring to? Turning anything into gold, metal into gold. But see, it’s now saying, you know, that old line, first I’ll tell them what I’m going to tell them, then I’ll tell
Them what I told them. This is telling us what we now know. What we already do but we didn’t know we knew because we thought we knew what we knew but we don’t know what we knew because we questioned what we knew because our thoughts didn’t know
What we knew and we thought we knew what we knew and then we knew we know what we don’t know but we don’t know what we’re not sure of because we questioned because we knew that
We knew that we didn’t know that we weren’t sure that we could be That might be the good that we knew that we know and then we tweeted and asked our friends what they think about We put it up on the site, but the The this the last stanza is saying now
You know the process of three two winning or even three And now you can go for and make and look for more. And she’s like… In any part, in any part, let’s say you’re just three, okay, it shows you how to go from three forward.
And then if you want to get tangled up with one, then you can do some winning. It shows you how to do that. Yeah. And it shows you how to notice where you are, where you is. Yeah.
And once you notice your is-ism, then your is-ism can go, okay, well that’s no big deal, but the sun is up, it’s the daytime, that’s not abnormal. See, it’s not, the sun did rise today, okay, it’s a normal thing. Well, what if a day didn’t rise?
Well, then that’s a one, and you get to deal with that. It doesn’t change reality or perception of reality. It just becomes a new is-ism. Right. Because what I’m here to tell you, what I’m here to tell you, and you need to make a little notation or not, please yourself,
Things that you know that are, are soon not going to be. Right. And the, you may see me make a note of the time when… No, make a note that all these things that you’re calculating as signage that is, is not
Necessarily. Yeah as the mystery landscape circulates. Well the mystery landscape is you’ve answered every mystery within the mystery landscape, but there’s a new landscape. These bastard children that your bodies keep procreating are fixing to turn everything you know upside down. Right.
And just so everybody knows, that’s my only point, all that you know that is may not be. Right and so the last stanza says I’m happy where we are we understand the process I understand it and now ready for more that’s what and she’s buying a stairway to heaven that’s ready for
More. Do you agree with that? Well she’s not buying the stairway to heaven she’s realizing that the goal that’s created is in her possession already. It’s not that you’ve got to figure out this process in order to do it, it’s that you have to figure out that you’ve had the process all along.
Like she was going after heaven not because she wanted heaven, because she wanted something that was in heaven, correct? Correct. Like she wanted just the, like being famous, she wanted just the wealth of being famous, and then she found out that there was a lot of other things
That went with it she didn’t like. Exactly, and then it’s kind of like, it’s like Heath Ledger. You wanted fame, fame, fame, fame, fame, well then the fame game got played, you won. Then you’re like, dude, what was I thinking? Why would I want that? Why, why, why, why, wait a minute.
I’ve got a buffalo in my head, bro, would I want that? Why, why, why, why, wait a minute. I’ve got, I’ve got a bustle in my head row. And I’m pretty high up, so the only place I can go from here is to fall. And he suicided himself. Well, everyone does, but yes.
But he, you’re explaining why he, he did himself in consciously? Yes. Took an overdose or whatever it was? Whatever he, He checked out. His library card was due. But he took the drugs to check out? He thought that’d be the means to do it? Well, he couldn’t deal with where he was. Right.
His is became more than he bargained for. It’s kind of funny how you did that. All right. you did that. Alright, anyway. Who did that? The way you asked that question, you kind of went around about it instead of just asking.
He did and it’s great because he’s played with us enough that he knows if he takes one misstep he sets off a rampage. And that makes it a 515. A laudable conclusion. Bob is, just be easy Jonathan, Bob is a paid professional, just know that. He knows how it works.
Okay, so now you want to hear the song? I think you want to read it all through again or is that too long? No, no, we’ll play it. Okay. Okay, um, it’s Stairway to Heaven off the best of Led Zeppelin Volume 1. Very good, and wait, wait, wait, wait,
Wait, you gotta give credit. In order to put this on a recording, it’s copywritten by whom? Led Zeppelin. All rights reserved. All rights reserved. That’s what you’re giving credit because you’re not using it otherwise. Okay. Breathe not and turn it up. uh uh I think that’s a song not not a bad song
Not at all it’s quite interesting though how he got um more aggressive at the end yeah as he um as we’d established the after the transition when he’s’s kind of back to where he began or… No, no, no. When he’s number three, he got a really non-aggressive assertive.
That’s what happens when you come into your power. That’s the point. Once you know, you’ll stand right up in the middle of the crowd. Everybody will tell them just exactly how the milk got in the coconut.
And you don’t ask, and you don’t ask permission, and you you don’t ask and you don’t ask permission and you don’t yield and you don’t bow and you don’t scrape. You know. And once you know and then if they don’t
Know that’s their problem it’s not yours and then therefore you eliminate them and what they think out of your place of beingness. That’s when they start having trouble. That’s when your government start having issue with you that’s when they don’t start they don’t understand you anarchist you you’re turning up the
Apple cart you think you can hear the wind in the trees you think you can buy your way to heaven no it didn’t say that it said you can own the stairway to heaven. Very good. Great. It was interesting at the end, and she’s buying the stairway to heaven.
The stairway. That’s correct. That’s correct. Not a stairway. She now knows. That’s exactly correct. Very good. Very good. And does he get aggressive at the line if there’s a bustle in your hedgerow? Is that where it begins? No, he got aggressive on the last bend of the uh… And as we wind
On down the road, right, right, right, right, just starting over again but with full confidence. I think, I think, I know. Like his um, it wasn’t more aggressive, more assertive, his like voice opened up and that’s how he sings in all the other songs. Like in the beginning he felt unsure of himself.
He was questioning how he would sing. Trying to sing in the classical rock. The Frank Sinatra kind of stuff. It’s autobiographical. The whole song is autobiographical. He mimes the process he went through. Probably. Whoever wrote this. Isn’t it interesting though, we heard the words, we sieved the words, and then you heard
The music, and it’s almost like, wait a second, how did you get there from there? The bass lines, I was sitting where it could actually vibrate my chair. Yes, but that is not exactly fair. Not most human creators have a subwoofer attached to their PC.
So I was playing it off my iPod, my peapod. Oh, your peapod? Oh, OK. Well, it’s still a speaker, isn’t she? But your point, your point is, Jonathan, what? It did add a lot of resonance and vibration than just the words.
I mean the words were great, but the music kind of emphasized their meaning. It created a melodious flow so you could tell which way the wind blows. Yes. That’s right. That’s what music does. It soothes the soul. Give me the B- and choose my song. Sorry. Yeah. Um, so that’s very good.
Um, um, I recommend… Whenever we do this again, I want to do another song. I don’t think we can do it tonight, But another song, Across the Universe by The Beatles. Right. Okay. Highway to Hell. We like that one too.
Yeah, so it turns out very appropriate that we pick this for Melting Titanium. Imagine having non-physical interact a bit. Isn’t it amazing? Well, yeah. what is the interaction? You’re just a resident, you’re just turning up the volume because you don’t create, but you help us to appreciate what we created. That’s correct.
And you arrange and allow and orchestrate every creation that is within your forecastable, manifestable reality. Do you also help them not drum up, but show the default manifestation? The default creation? Yes, we point them out because people are running around with issue and trouble because of their manifestation, but they manifested by default.
Now you think of manifestation as a positive thing, but it doesn’t always have to be. If you lose your house in this climate or economy, that’s because you are creating by default. The default is that everybody says, everybody’s losing their job and there is no money
And it’s over and the mortgage companies are gone and the credit’s gone and there is no introduction, there is no charity, there is no introduction, there is no charity, there is no country, there is no, there is no, there is no, there is no. But so, they’re not saying that there’s lack,
They’re saying there’s an abundance of nextness. Yeah. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. So, it doesn’t have to be, how do I get my red shiny car, you see? It’s if you lose, you’re a forfeit, you’re my red shiny car? You see, if you lose your forfeit your red shiny car,
What was the process by which you went through to create that reality as a manifested being in your knowingness? So it’s the flip side of that same sweet and delicious thought.
Same sweet and delicious thought. So this song is a celebration not a creation by default. Correct. Correct. Because once you come into your knowing and you come into that place, that place, you’re gonna sing like he did. You know this over-the-top
Blasting and I don’t care what you and what you think about it. So I’m gonna leave, I know what I know and I’m gonna leave what you think about it. So I’m gonna leave, I know what I know, and I’m gonna leave what you think about it out of the equation.
Count the curbane. Is that the labyrinth of the mind kind of putting the mind of reason in a secondary position? That’s a great way to say it. can be further from the way it is, but it’s a great way to say it It’s almost like you’ve got your string
So now you can easily Navigate the labyrinth of your mind with full knowing and confidence that if you get down a rabbit hole Or get a bustle in your head row that you’ve got the strength where you can
Choose a different path. Is that like you have the knowledge to get yourself out of anything? Well, no you have a you have non-physical which gives you the clues So you have to find your way, but you have the knowledge of knowing there’s non-physical
But you don’t necessarily you don’t have to establish that for it to be. Non-physical is helping anyway. It’s helping anyway. So whether you recognize it or not, it still is. See, that’s where those who say there is no God, okay, that’s great.
But that doesn’t make any less God. It just eliminates God to them. You see? Because, you know, if you want, if you believe in Buddha, you get Buddha. If you believe in Jesus, you get Jesus.
If you believe in Godless, you get no God. But that doesn’t mean that you’re still not the Creator. And that’s our inference, our deference that we always get when you start using words. Because when you start talking about what God is, well what most people think God is, God is not.
So you’ve got a false premise right out of the chute that now you’ve got to work through the signage on the wall to make sure that you know which way the wind’s blowing. Very, very good. Yep. I had improved with the song. Oh, we like all songs.
Okay, I think we’ve come to the end. Guys, what? Bob, you must be turning in early. It’s only 3.30. What’s going on? No, no, no, I don’t have to.
I’m here. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha iON explaining elaborating the lyrics to Led Zeppelin songs stairway to heaven
That was recorded back in October 2009 so what six years ago Okay, let’s see. Let’s see if Burt’s come in Is that you Bert? My mom that’s you that’s using you getting in by 7th. Ok then, and that’s Roxy? Yes, wow. Make me wonder.
Another wow, we get several wows there over the last few weeks. Oh, this is wonderful. I wonder in all the senses of wonder, like with amazement and with interrogation. All the sensuous wonder. So Bert, you know what we did is Roxy requested Stairway to Heaven a while ago.
And so I remembered that oh we could play even though we sell it make it a special and play iON analyzing the lyrics to Stairway to Heaven so that’s what we just heard. You probably own that recording right? Yes. You probably have a copy of that?
Yes. It’s interesting to hear. I haven’t heard it in a while, but that’s really interesting. It’s spot on. Spot on. Great. Um, we had a very chaotic…
How it ended with the thing I’m… I want to talk about how for the ascended there is no God and that’s what Dian says at the end for the ascended there is no God and on the one side we have the Catholic McLuhan
Explaining the mystic body of Christ and on the other side we have Zappa, who claims he was an atheist. But I would say it doesn’t matter because your non-physical is always helping in your creation even if you accepted or not, you are the God, you are the creator.
He says all the creations are done with the non-physical so that’s why I suppose we find all these Ionic memes in Zappa and in Joyce and in McLuhan
Because the non-physical is there in all the creation you said Macuane was Catholic on one side, what did you call it on the other side, did you say atheist? yes atheist, ok he claimed he was well Frank, he formed a church called the church of secular humanism
Um, there may be church and secular he also was talking about the big note. Church of secular humanism or church and it becomes CASH. C-A-S-H. I think it became whatever it was. It was CASH. Just wanted to mention that.
But yeah, back to what you were saying? Yes, that he also had this concept of the big note, that he said there is God and all these things and then there is the big note. He said his music includes every available visual medium, every perceptual deficiency, God,
He included God in his concept or part of his music. Technology is a… What? Roxy, make sure your phone is perfect. I find it a little hard to hear what you’re saying. Can you adjust your phone to make it perfect? Are you on Skype? Can you be on a better… No, I always…
I always… What? Speak. I always speak on this mic on the computer. Right, so put the microphone down by your mouth or something. It’s just slightly blurry and I hate that. You can’t make out what you’re saying. So have you adjusted it? This is the weird day they were. Nothing is working.
No, it’s okay. It’s okay, but it’s not perfect. Is it my phone, Bert? How’s your phone for hearing Roxy? I can hear Roxy, but you sound at a distance, Bob. You sound like you’re at a distance than normal okay that’s a
Great well we had chaos Bert we played first of all we had a stand-by the video shiver band yes the video killed the radio star Bert I came on and played played the music first hour and showed myself dancing in my new video hookup with
Bill. So it was a very interesting evening. But iON got pissed off and iON demanded me to play the song called the video killed the radio star and I couldn’t get connected to
Bill. The phone would work with anybody else but it would not connect to me. So iON claimed that they shut it off and caused a totally ridiculous hour which we’ll delete from the archives. And then we finally got the thing played because Bill called me.
And so I may not be in the normal connection because of the way Bill brought me in. Yeah, it sounds like it. It sounds like it. So I hope it still make it better. So I have a couple things I want to do. What do you, you want to talk about something, Roxy?
Well, about the whole song. Yes. It’s about the logos and manifesting with your works. That’s what we were talking before about Baudrillard and about McLuhan being interested in grammar and etymology because he knew the logos is the way to manifest. And Ian has told us that, for example,
McLuhan and Captain Beefheart were doing this parallel world thing, and I suppose Shappa knew about all those things, and maybe he himself is eternal and is doing all these parallel world travels. and more travels so… Yeah, I think iON, I think he said, you know, Beefheart was the,
Cat and Beefheart was the weird one, came in from another dimension. Zappa was more normal. I don’t know if Zappa, it would occur to him to fake his death or, I think iON said that, and I don’t know about his parallel worlding, even though he sang about it,
And we’re only for the money, he called it Discorporate. But there’s more to be found out about Zappa as time, as reality unfolds. He definitely understood there’s no time. He really understood that point. So, I was thinking that… And I like his version of the Star Wars to Heaven
Because he’s doing like a sitcom. He’s adding these laughs, like these comedies on TV, and making fun, makes me wonder. Of the woo-woo, makes me wonder, woo-woo, of the woo-woo, of the landscape. But at the same time, he’s, I think he reflected really, from all the songs, from all the composers,
He knew, he choose very specific songs. And in that record, there’s also, for example, the Ring of Fire. And in this one, iON is also talking about the artness and the easiness and Zapata had this song, You Are What You Is. and Zapatisong, you are what you is.
In there, you wonder who I wonder to, you used to was who I was anyway, and what to do. I used to work at the post office, just scratch your head, but I don’t wanna undo my do, and look around just to see what’s going on
She’s playing with all these things but she’s really wondering and she’s she’s really wondering in amazement what did you just read what did you just read What did you just read? That is from the lyrics of You are what you is Oh, okay, right Because it’s like you wonder who you are
And she’s making fun of people thinking you are your possessions or what you put on or what you have. But she’s really going deeper into this, this wondering, what are we? Yes, what are we? I’m looking for a Zappa article. But Bert, you don’t get to say much Bert.
You want to say some things? Yes. Your thoughts on Zappa so far? I read your letter to Prince Charles this week Bob and I saw that in your 10 programs that Zappa you flip into Zappa and the occult from cosmic awareness Marshall McLuhan Peter
Beder and then it retrieved it flips into Frank Zappa and I was wondering if you could elaborate on that because I found it interesting as Zappa’s you start out Zappa’s in music in your program four but in your program eight it starts enhances cosmic awareness this obsolescence Marshall McLuhan
Retrieves Peter Beater but then it flips into cosmic awareness eventually flips into Frank Zappa. I find that Zappa, I’ve listened to a lot of sporadic interviews, because there’s a lot of interviews with Zappa, and he’s really, he has a gleam in his eye, and he really is
Performing in all of his, as if he had some hidden knowledge. And I do remember also that you met Beefheart and Zappa at a UFO. So I suspect that Zappa had some experience that he never elaborated to someone.
Although he told his brother he made a pact with the devil, that he had some type of non-physical experience that had an effect on him all throughout his life. Yes. Maybe. Yeah, no, that’s true. I didn’t meet Zappa and Beefheart in, they were like 18 and 1958. I didn’t meet them
At a UFO scene. I was out there on behalf have my employers to look into the new ufo phenomenon and that’s when i stumbled across them in a club who i think was bo diddley was playing and i overheard them and i’ll introduce myself in a club but it was
The ufo thing wasn’t part of uh… them but um… it is a psychic stuff you’ll see in the bob marshall interview with sapphire uh… we bring up the fact that in an interview in 1969, someone asked him about the psychic and he says no comment.
And that could mean, oh, he doesn’t take it seriously, he’s not interested. So we asked him about that and he said, well, you don’t talk about something like that with someone who doesn’t know anything about it.
And he was being interviewed by probably a teenager or someone in the early 20s and he was saying he actually valued the topic he would not discuss quote the psychic with someone in a silly context. Another time he was on a teen TV show and Grace Slick from the Jefferson Airplane
Started to interview him. She was on as a guest. She started asking deep questions and he said, ìA discotheque is not the place for us to talk about that kind of thing.î So thatís McLuhan Awareness. The medium, the context you are in determines what youíre going to do or how youíre going
To discuss things now I would discuss it, but he was very aware of that and he would not Talk about it in in the silly con what he thought was a silly distracting context now He talks about higher level the Pauline Oliveros
Artwork in the 60s that you are dealing with things above human hearing and below human experiencing and they come together and he says UFOs might be like that, psychic phenomena. He definitely thought about it. Then Gail talks about the psychic experience she had after her first night sleeping with Frank back in 1966.
Another time after he died. She said after Frank died She said that he would write about things and then he would notice that they’d show up out in the media someplace So I would that would be like my version of the anachrony and he would comment on
As she implied that he knew he kind of manifested or there was some synchronicity going on between What he was doing in the world out there. So there are many different involvements, hints that he was interested in the psychic stuff.
In my encounters with him, I found him to be a very soft person, definitely a kind of person in that stereotypical way, into the mystic, that’s the way he was. And he said that he dropped his Catholicism around the time he was 18 when he studied Zen.
Zen somehow got him out of the Catholic idea. And then he asks in the United Mutations pamphlet for the fans in the late 50s, he says, he has the question, is God ESP? And I think he talks, he might talk about that in the communication among his students, the musicians.
So and another interesting point is he says that his home was decorated in the style of Rumpelstiltskin. So what is that? He calls it Rumpelstiltskin. So what is that? He calls it Rumpelstiltskin decor. So there are lots
Of points that Frank showed that he was interested in mediumship. I read him what cosmic awareness. We do a tetrad. I do a tetrad on each of what I call the holy offices. McLuhan, LaRouche, Herbert W. Armstrong, Phineas Wake, Dr. Peter Maybrussel, Garrett Dean, Club 22, Cosmic Awareness. So you push McLuhan, enhance
The rhetorical school, it obsolesces something, retrieves one of the other holy offices, and then flips into the opposite in a way. So cosmic awareness flipped into Zappa. And it’s an interesting cosmic awareness and then Zappa in the 70s wrote a song called Cosmic Debris, not cosmic awareness or cosmic conscious, cosmic debris.
So he even added the word cosmic in there. Roxy likes citing that song. But the way Zappa was, he was a good antidote to the new agey, occult, air-headedness. You know what I mean? Because he would point out the practical aspects of it.
He did say about the new age, in one rare interview, that’s the only time I ever saw him talk about it, he said, the New Age has a lot of interesting philosophy. If they could get more organized, develop some leadership, and make it a political movement, he thought that would be pretty neat.
So he actually was quite, you know, rational, poised about things. He didn’t, he would fit something into the scenario. You know, he didn’t dismiss it. fit something into the scenario, he didn’t dismiss it, most people put down the New Age, but he said no, they got interesting ideas, but don’t
Know what New Age he meant, and when I read him, what Cosmic Awareness, see I got to read him what Cosmic Awareness said about his work, and he listened and he said, kind of just kept quiet. He definitely would keep things to himself, I found.
He might have talked to Gail about things, but certain personal things of what he actually was interested in, he wouldn’t talk about, it seemed. Yeah. Well that’s what fascinated, just like I said last week with what he told George Duke when
He was improvising is that he saw shapes and he would see the shapes coming apart, coming together and that’s how he did his improvisation when he played the guitar. So it appears that he did have some type of mystical experience that drove him musically.
I heard an interview yesterday about what was his favorite instrument and he said the guitar because the guitar because of how it plays and how the hand is that no one has actually mastered how to play it and he found that he could use the guitar as a good expression of a…
Because no one has mastered it and that’s what he was attempting to use the guitar as a master to master it right, right now… and there were so many… go ahead I would like to say something ok, Roxy wants to say something many people thought he was um synesthetic yes, synesthesia
I was just going to mention it, synesthesia yes, for example he said he would like his music to be more orange. How he said, this is a movie for your ears. He was always going actually into the multi-sensorial, the multimedia, and using technologies to stimulate more than one sense.
And his concerts were all about participation and not just listening, but affecting the audience. It’s like the logos, it’s like the logos, it’s like the logos, it’s like the logos, there is, there is, he wants to mutate or transmutate the audience. He really wants to have an effect on the audience.
And he will then stimulate all the sensories of the people who will be listening, seeing… He said, he did say, you know you know in rolling stone that he’s not entertainment he was very mad that they call them entertainment he’s always got the the uncle meet character the government scientist is
Trying to take rubin the jets and mutate the population through sounds so he always was presenting his own agenda in a negative ironic way that he’s a government scientist and taking these young musicians to create an effect on the audience. And in around 1973 he was
Interviewed and he talked about shapes and geometry, geometrical shapes. So I read that and I think he was in Australia. So when I got a chance to talk to him later about it, I said, what is this geometry and shape stuff? And he says, I never said that.
And I quote him the article and he said he didn’t say anything about that. And so the interviewer made it up or Frank forgot completely that stuff. But it was like one of the most interesting statements he ever made, that there was this synesthetic aspect.
And I read Eric Bapune’s book this week, Synesthesia, no the senses communists, Synesthesia and the soul and they talk about different famous people who were, they call them synesthetes, synesthetes, like an esthete but synesthetes.
They didn’t name Zappa but they named many people, well people, but the case, oh yeah, in that book what comes out new is that Eric analyzes the Catholic part, or brings in the Catholic doctrine part of Marshall.
Don’t know if Marshall would agree with it, but Eric takes his father as a devout Catholic and then shows that all the senses are an extension of her body but then the bodily senses are an extension of the soul.
That’s not the way iON says the soul is, but if everything is an extension of the soul then that means everything is in the gut, everything is unmanifested and entities bring it forth. So, you were saying a little while ago that everything comes from, all of the technologies come from
Somewhere, from non-physical that seemed to be what Eric was saying within Catholic terms that technologies are extensions of the soul. So I just wanted to add that part. And I really like how Arjen ended and he says they arrange and orchestrate all creations. So again, relating it to making music, to composing.
Creating is a way of composing, talking is composing. It’s like, you’re making the point, Rashi, that both McLuhan and Zappa were assisted by the non-physical, I guess everybody is, but there was something helping them there, even though they had opposite dogma about
God, right? You were saying that in a way they both were super creative. Yes, because at the end, iON says here in this recording, it doesn’t matter if you believe
Here in this recording. It doesn’t matter if you believe in God or not. You are the one creating. Right. And non-physical. And did he say non-physical is helping you? Yes. He says all creations come from non-physical. Did he say that? Did he say those words?
Even if you recognize it or not, yes, even if you recognize it or not, they are helping you. Right, and he said, did he say all creations come from non-physical? Did he say that Bert?
No, he said that sort of in his way, but one word, the words that I heard is that non-physical helps anyway. Oh, okay. Alright. Tom? What? Yep. I got that. Non-physical. I wrote it down. I think they say all creations come from non-physical. I think I’ve heard that.
Yes, in other places, not tonight. The melodious flow to know which way the wind blows. There are many things that, for example, they say, and we don’t know what they’re talking about, and then after we know about the wings. And they also say,
The song is about alchemy and they talk about the rock, which is the magnesium. We may not know when they say these things, what is that about? But they put all the time these pieces of information that when we listen to I Am for a while, then you read everything he’s saying
In another, with another perception. Right, did you say something about flow? Something is flow, love is flow, or did you say something about a minute and a half ago? Did I hear something about flow? Something it’s flow, love is flow or did you say something about a minute and a half ago?
Did I hear the word flow? He said the melodious flow to know which way the wind blows. He was talking about… What were the first words? I don’t get what you’re saying. To flow is to know which way the wind blows. What is your opening words? Melodious like
The melody. Yeah melod okay. So, um… What was I going to say? Oh, yeah. The McLuhans, Eric and Marshall, make a lot out of the grammarian and how they are alchemists. And Frank wrote a song about one of the famous alchemists, Fulcinelli. So you have this overlap of interesting alchemists.
So you have this overlap of… McLuhan said the best alchemists are grammarians and the best artists are grammarians. Yeah. Are you looking for the lyric of Stairway to Heaven? Something about Melodious? Yes. No, maybe it’s not in the lyrics.
I thought it was in the lyrics because I was not looking at the lyrics. You’re saying you’s at night. What are you saying Roxy? I have to get you to repeat everything. You’re what? I thought it was a part of the lyrics but it’s not.
You know it could be this lousy connection with Bill’s phone. You know it’s just been a little bad this week and I can’t uh… seem to get uh… connected through my phone. So what, it just seemed a little bad this week and I can’t seem to get connected
Through my phone. So what, Bert, what is she saying? It’s not a lyric? Couldn’t find a lyric? What is it? No, it’s not in the lyrics, but I do remember that it was, iON was talking about the winds and about, he mentioned something about the
Monolious flow of the winds or some reference to that. But the monolious flow of the winds or some reference to that but the monolious flow is not in the ice layer. What’s the word monolious? Melodious. Melody. Melody. I apologize to whoever’s listening to this that we have to do this but fuck it.
We’ve got to do it. We’ve got to find out what people are saying. There’s this, okay what what else you want to Roxy what do you want to talk about I’ve got things to talk about with Frank what do you want to do
Well I was really curious because of the castle and the stairway and all these things and the discussion we had about the soul and it’s anesthesia. What did Diane say about Shambor? He told me not to say what he
Told me is not to be told publicly but it… the way we’re talking about it is definitely happening and uh… there are a couple things i could tell you privately but i won’t say it publicly roxy but it is a unique place very unique
Yes, but, well, I think both of McCloughan and Frank were aware of the power of the words to manifest as we saw in this song. Well, I find Zap intended towards the nominalist and the dialectician, the way he would emphasize
Being rational, but his music is not that, but often his opinions and his philosophy were all Americanism, all American individualism, slightly old fashioned. Yes, but I think trying to understand the mystery landscape and the non-physical doesn’t mean you are illogical. And for example in that castle, in the
Chambord castle, Leonardo is trying to to make that into architecture to show this can be the most fantastic but also the most rational, the most logical, the most mathematical, the most symmetric and at the same time it’s not there’s something weird happening. Well what what Ayn
Told me is is on the level of hugely fantastic what’s going on there pretty awesome and definitely Leonardo knew what he was doing there even though though he basically wasn’t alive when they started. Did you see that LaRouche article I sent out where, you know, in LaRouche he’s encyclopedic,
He’s put a name in, now up it comes. So they did an article on Chambord related things. They said that King Francis was going to make the first major modern city. And he got Leonardo to design it for him. And then within a year or so, the city project collapsed for some reason.
So then the king… Well, he died. Yeah, Leonardo died. And then the king went and switched the project to the castle and dropped the modern city idea. And it looks like that Leonardo’s plans were part of the transition.
What was done in the city was going to be then got used in the castle. But they don’t have any evidence of any of that because all the documents were missing. But there’s LaRouche. LaRouche made the – LaRouche celebrates the fact they were going to make a big city, because that’s LaRouche’s politics.
And they’re upset that the big city didn’t get made, and LaRouche shows no interest in Chambord. Yes, but that’s another thing that, for example, McLuhan was an engineer and a literary professor, a critic. Frank was a composer, but he also was very interested in developing technologies to express
What he wanted to make with his music. It was an extension of his music. He saw technology as an extension of his music. He saw technology as an extension of his composing. Yes. For example, the remixing and the synocrisy. And I’m trying to wake up. And Leonardo in this case too,
It’s like all these vortices people because they are aware of the vortex. And Frank Zappa has a song with Captain Beefheart loved in the whirlpool. Yes. They want to balance both sides of the brain,
The artistic and the logical, the scientific and the artistic creation. Sorry, you said they want to balance the artistic and the logical. Yes both sides of the brain and like McLintock there is this the poetry, the literature but there is also the other language that is more
Scientific or more left side of the brain. Right but LaRouche says there is no division between left and right hemisphere they don’t take that that categorization and LaRouche says the same principles happen in art that happen in science same principles not two different parts of the brain so
That’s it’s interesting LaRouche’s ideas on that. I think they’re trying to conciliate to to make peace with that, that we are both fantastic, artistic, and also there is this other side of us that need to understand, for example, what is the non-physical? What is happening to us? How are we evolving?
How are we expanding ourselves with each of our creations? How the non-physical is contained in the middle? And what the figure on the ground, and I’m just really impressed with this portrait of the King Frank, the first, because I always saw only the figure of the King and then in the
Ground is this thing with the bottle of the RNA drops. So it’s like he’s saying you have to look for both like McLuhan was saying you have to understand both figure and ground not only the content, but the medium is damaged. Bert, did you see, you on Facebook Bert?
No, I’m not on Facebook, no. Well my Facebook page makes it worth it, but, so Roxy posted some of the shots from the castle and different parts on my Facebook and then show the RNA drops label and how that was in the painting of King Francis. Yes, I saw it on Ed’s post.
Oh, you go to Ed’s? Oh yeah, well Ed’s just as good as my Facebook page. Okay, so you go to Ed and saw that. Alright. What did you say, Roxanne? That, that Ed posted, that on Ironbook. Yes, I say, Rox? Yes. That, that they had posted, that on IANA Book.
Yes, I do think it does. It does. It does. And in the, the mast in the, in the fabric behind him, the ground, you see what is on the bottle of the RNA crops. And that’s the, the amazing thing that you see they knew. Yeah, each time…
You told me to see the ninth date and it’s about how some people can ascent and some people can descent. And in these ingredients that are supposed to be in this book, in which they, if you follow the right book or you have the right thinking and feeling,
And you ascent, but if you are into the material, you descend, and there are some engravings. And in one, for example, there is this king playing chess with a little man. And behind this, the king and the little man. I am there? Yeah, we’re here. What? With the little man?
There are two dogs fighting. And because when I had a session with Diane he said the bad dogs are leaving for me was like well again these things so okay I got to find out what you’re talking about are you talking about a
Book connected to the ninth gate yes in that in the film there is supposed to be a book in which there are some engravings with some clues on how to ascend, but some, the Luciferians think it’s clues how to have power or how to have material things or whatever they think.
But it’s actually how to be the light. So that’s, I was looking at those engravings and what all the symbols in the engravings. And it’s interesting because there is also this thing about, like in the tarot cards, you get a reading when they’re up and you get another reading when they’re upside down.
And it’s like in the bottle of the RNA drops, people were seeing a T is a unique column and they saw the devil. For example, I saw this emperor when I turn it. Yeah. reflection of the castle in the water is like this mirroring that is also the
Soul which is also the replay that somehow all medias are trying to to be a mirror of what we call reality and somehow… Yeah, McLuhan called them, he wrote an article in the early 40s called The Analogical Mirrors, and it’s plural. There’s visual mirrors, acoustic mirrors, kinetic mirrors, you know, multi-sensory mirrors,
Analogical mirrors. So you’re, um, did you say there was a painting with some dogs fighting underneath, a little man playing chess with somebody? Yes, on the engravings of the book, Alexander Lincoln, yeah, there are all
These little clues of how to ascend. I mean one of the engravings is again this God with his crown playing chess with a little man. And there are dogs fighting nearby. They are behind them. And what does that mean to you, the dogs? Well, because when I had the…
The first time I talked to iON, it’s only the dogs are leaving. I see, yeah. I see that. Okay, listen to this. Very similar to… I was going through my articles and I came across this article written way back in 67 by someone named Joe Mancini.
The name sounds familiar to me, but I don’t know where it’s from. And it’s Frank Zappa, Mother. Now, this is an article written before the biographies came out. So listen to this, it’s pretty interesting. Frank Zappa, on stage, doesn’t seem to care. He lumbers out, slung with guitar, inscrutable.
A spindly, hairy Buddha in blue jeans. Frank Zappa takes his time. The nerve of Frank Zappa, he keeps the audience waiting, smears at them, addresses them with sarcasm and contempt. But when he’s good and ready, Frank Zappa makes things happen. Lights flicker, blaze, die out. Then come the sounds. Loud, louder,
Loudest. All kinds of sounds. Old sounds, new sounds. Elvis Presley, Igor Stravinsky, The Supremes, The Andrew Sisters, Dick Haynes, Spike Jones. A lot of the past, plenty of now, and an assault on the future.
And that’s pretty good. Then it says, the mothers of invention, of the past, plenty of now and an assault on the future. And that’s pretty good. Then it says, the mothers of invention, Poland. Frank Zappa, six other maniacs in a pile of musical instruments. They are satirists, iconoclasts, nostalgicians, super talented musicians.
They are a lot more. To quote Susie Creamcheese writing on the jacket of their first record, Freeco, she says, and she’s pretending to be a little high school kid, these mothers is crazy. You can tell by their clothes. One guy wears beads and
They all smell bad. We were going to get them for a dance after the basketball game, but my best pal warned me you can never tell how many will show up. Sometimes the guy in the fur coat, that would be Zappa. Sometimes the guy in the fur coat, that would be Zappa.
Sometimes the guy in the fur coat doesn’t show up and sometimes he does show up only brings a big bunch of crazy people with him and they dance all over the place. None of the kids at my school like these mothers, especially since my teacher told us what the
Words to their songs meant. So that was on the back of the Freak Out album. So this guy quotes that and then he says says Frank Zappa in a Greenwich Village coffeehouse colon pink shirt red and blue vertical striped bell-bottoms black snake hair Mexican bandit mustache
Mexican bandit straight from the lower lip go team Straight for it’s it’s pretty good that we have a Mexican princess being the expert on Zappa. I’m going to grow a mustache. Yes, you grow a mustache. Mexican bandit mustache. I can do anything. Yes. Straight from the lower lip, goatee.
This is composer, arranger, conductor, and then mother of the mothers. Frank Zappa, 26, so that would be 1967. Frank Zappa, 26, divorced, suspicious, cynical, real. Frank Zappa tells it like it was. Now, so this is a pretty perceptive article on Frank, very early, you know what I mean?
Then the guy goes into some history, maybe he spent some time with Frank, because he says, Frank Zappa is a 13 year old boy living in Monterey, California. His mother is fond of soap operas. Nothing else is heard on the radio. They don’t have a record player. He lives a sheltered life.
He’s never even heard of rock and roll. Now that would be 1953, nobody heard of rock and roll in 53, 54. It doesn’t really burst on scene till 54, 55. He stumbles upon a recording of Gee by the Crows it turns him on. Remember we
Have more details on that he heard it on the car radio. And then a quote from Frank, I beat my folks over the head until they get me a drum. It’s just a lousy little snare drum, but it’s a start, unquote. That’s after he hears the song Gee by the Crows. Now, Frank’s
App is 14. He hears his first symphony. It later leads to his composing works for chamber music ensemble and symphony orchestra and scoring big beat adaptations of Mozart, Holst and Varese. Except for six months of harmony in high school, Frank Saban receives no formal musical training. Now we
Know now from his brother that he did hang out with a famous composer, Carl Cohn, who’s listed on Freak Out, which reminds me we got to do the next bunch of Freak Out names. Carl Cohn let Frank sit in to his musical writing class and remember he was shocked
That Frank would write perfectly on ink paper, not on scrap paper. Like he knew what he wanted to write and he wouldn’t worry about making a mistake. He wouldn’t make a mistake. So except for six months of harmony in high school, Frank Saban receives no formal musical training.
Quote, I have a lot of trouble with school. They keep throwing me out. Then they figure I’m not really stupid and they send me to junior college for a couple of hours a day. Unquote. Then he says Frank lands a spot with his first rock band, The Ramblers, in
San Diego. They work places like the American Legion Post number 6. It’s a start. Remember he said that earlier, the snare drum, it’s a start. Now, it’s pretty incredible, this kind of information wasn’t around until Dave Wally’s book came out in the early 70s. But anyways, Frank Zappa and the Mothers, recording artists.
Freecoat had an advance sale of 15,000 copies in brackets for a first record, isolation mark. It’s now sold a total of more than 125,000. Absolutely Free had a 45,000 advance. The Mothers’ wild sound on record, without the sneers, without the looks of boredom or ennui,
Without all that hair, without the clothes, the beads, the beard is something else. The mother’s wild sound is something else. I like this guy. He can hear the new environment. And then he says sounds, lampoons, sounds, dissonant, sounds, electronic, one song runs into another. Are these mothers
Insane? Frank tells it, quote, the main thing is that we’re impossible. Think that. The main thing he describes the mothers is that they’re impossible. Judged by any commercial standard, we have nothing to offer the American public. Ask any broadcaster. He’ll tell you right away. What they don’t want is us.
We have no business working and making money. That sounds like me. We are a fake radio show. We have non-physical here. We are totally irrelevant to your lives, other than you are going to be killed very shortly if you don’t join us
I like that. I’ve never seen that quote before. The main thing is that… What? Join our love feast Join or…what Bert? join or love feast join or what Bert? join our love feast join our love feast or get out get out of here, get out and uh… so uh… i like this
The main thing is that in other words frank it’s a total action that he’s even able to play wherever he’s playing. The clubs don’t want him. They had to leave California. He finds his theater where they can play there for six months and create incredible, updated, happening theaters, and it’s all in par.
How did this happen? It’s just like, how did iON happen? The main thing is that we’re impossible. Judged by any commercial standard, we have nothing to offer the american public that’s getting broadcasted you’ll tell you right away what they don’t want is that we have no business working and making money
That’s what they think about our r&d drop. These people have no fucking no justification for making money off the r&D drops. They’re total fraud. Okay. And who are these people who actually like Frank? Then he says, but then the writer says, but the records are selling big from Gettysville,
Saheed Ashbury, Skyr Sail to Beverly Hills. And then Frank then says, we help to create the environment that makes it possible for us to be a success. It remains to be seen if we’re going to be a dollar success. We’ve even been triumphant. We’ve gotten away with some of the greatest masterpieces
And or atrocities ever performed live before an audience. Ha ha, that’s us. We have gotten away with a lot of shit. Let’s do that again. So Frank was one of the first bursting out after Dylan of opening up, you know, freaking out.
So he says, we helped to create the environment that makes it possible. Now he’s saying this before anybody’s even heard of Frank. But he’s already been operating for a year or so in LA and causing a big scene there, street riots and all that.
Not that Frank caused them, but right there, this scene in LA that people don’t know about unless they’re living in LA. So he says, we help to create the environment that makes it possible for us to be a success. It remains to be seen if we’re going to be a dollar success.
We’ve even been triumphant. We’ve gotten away with some of the greatest masterpieces and or atrocities ever performed live before an audience. So he knows that some of his stuff is a masterpiece. Right? He knows how awesome it is what he’s doing. He says, and he says,
We also got all this masterpiece and atrocity on record. Then he says, and he says we also got all this masterpieces and atrocities on record. Then he says, and I’ve never seen this quote, it’s improvised insanity. And he says it’s nothing sacred, rock and roll. Nothing sacred that’s the hugely manipulative
Incredibly manipulative what he’s doing there right any chance it’s improvised insanity now here’s this guy who’s conducting like a rational maniac uh… they call it a control freak around this time everybody started noticing frank hyper rehearsing his band five days a week or something, over disciplined.
So all the stoners were saying, Frank’s a control freak. But he’s saying it’s improvised insanity. Nothing’s sacred rock and roll. Then he says, in September we’re releasing the Mothers and Lenny Bruce. Spliced tapes of Lenny Bruce and meshed with our members. We’re touring Europe in October, England, Holland, France, Sweden, Denmark.
In November we’re releasing We’re Only In It For The Money. See, that would have to be 67. And everything gets delayed. The We’re Only In It For The Money gets delayed. Then he says, so we did Frank at 13, he hears the R&B.
Then 14 he hears the R&B then 14 he hears the Classical music or probably I don’t know if he’s heard Verez this guy doesn’t get the Verez fact in there But Frank here’s Verez at the beginning in 14 15. So that’s his Frank’s at his 18
He goes to Los Angeles to seek his fortune He gets a job selling records is asked by one of his former high school teachers, now producing films, to become the youngest person ever to score a motion
Picture. Andre Previn did it at 20, but Frank does it at 18. Now, he broke records at 18. There’s people around him knowing the guy is super talented, and yet he hasn’t done that much. He’s only 18. That’s pretty neat, eh? Yes. Yes, I wanted to say, I think for his 15th birthday,
His mother allowed Frank to call the IRS. Yes. And his brother talks about that too. Yes. So… How do you know his brother talks about that? Did you listen to something? Have you checked out his brother talking about that? Did you listen to something? Have you checked out his brother?
In an interview about his brother writing the book, they asked him about Vares. When did he start listening to Vares? And he said he remembered that for his 15th birthday he called Vares and he was very excited about that. remembered before he’s fifteen where did she
She called everything he was very excited about that greatly out fifteen she you can make yeah he he knew to go to the sources uh… and he uh… that’s a well-known story most people that the fans know that story that is two point he calls them
That i have to check the book and and he uh… right summary calls them it turns out that for a is not going to be there and then another time uh… he’s going to be in the johnny’s close visiting his
Relatives in baltimore he tried to go up to you but he misses them i think he made two attempts to be missed he never did meet for s he did meet uh… mrs for it put on a concert of red stuff in but nineteen eighty three with with her there but um…
I could stand corrected on the order i don’t think you wrote to him and then he gets it you know he did i don’t want to call them he said a guy like this must live in the competitive village to recall
Information but no clue but just a hunch that he must be listed in Greenwich Village and he was right. He found the number, I don’t know what the operator told him, but they looked in the Greenwich Village and that’s where he was living. And years, well, geez, that’s, so 60 years later,
No 50 years later, I’m with Carol Leeina name and one of the earliest women pop up performance artist and he pointed out the place in greatest village where veres lived because she was vered his secretary in the late fifties early sixties
You know as a performer as a budding artist she knew to hang out with her is so um… that was interesting uh… carolina as to hang out with Rez. So that was interesting. Carolene Schneeman, you might want to look her up, S-C-H-N-E-E-M-A-N or M-E-N but it’s probably M-A-N. She’s the famous mid-60s radical
Performer in the art world. So, then it says, Frank is 18, but the movie’s leading lady has a miscarriage. Production is halted. Frank goes to work for a greeting card company. He marries at 19. Frank’s half is 20. He ties, he ties with Previn when he scores the world’s greatest sinner
Then the first picture run home slow resumed production and i mean that he actually didn’t he didn’t really win the almost one but that the thing uh… stop because uh… production stalled because uh… woman believe me a pregnant so he was on the way to become a youngest person ever score
So all he did was to get a dead heat with Previn, a 20 tied Previn. Then the first picture, Run Home Sloan, resumes production. Frank Tappas, 22. The mothers of invention are about to take shape. His marriage is starting to fall apart. End of that kind of sequence.
Then he says, the writer says, the best of the mothers are musical geniuses, the worst of them close to it. So the best of the mothers are geniuses, and the worst of the band are close to geniuses. That’s what this Joe Mancini says. Then he says,
Their numbers, or songs, are a kaleidoscope of electrified sound emerging here, vanishing there, mushrooming, flattening out, exploding, fireworks. You don’t catch all the strains running through this music. You don’t catch all the strains running through this music, but what you do catch pulls you in. You don’t
Catch all the lyrics either, but what you do catch stimulates. They’re rebellious, belligerent, tearing down the bad guys. High school, parents, tearing down the bad guys, tearing down high school, parents, the establishment, outmoded moral traditions.
Then Frank Zappa 22 gets the use of an expensive, fully equipped recording studio in payment for a debt owed him. He starts putting together experimental noises. The material is being formed. The idea is being developed that will someday form the repertoire of the Mothers of Invention. This is a tremendous article, so early.
There’s a group playing somewhere. All right, so the material’s being formed, the idea’s being developed that will someday form the repertoire of the Mothers of Invention. There’s a group playing somewhere. Roy Estrada, now a mother, is part of it. He picks up Jim Black, another present mother. Then Ray Collins joins the bunch.
Ray always has been a troublemaker. He picks a fight with a guitar player. They come to blows. Ray wins. They need another guitar player. Somebody mentions Frank Zappa. Then it has a quote from Frank. Frank says to them, Tell you what I’ll do, says Frank, who has the run of an expensive
Fully equipped recording studio. I’ll be the leader of the band. And the writer says, who’s to argue? It’s his bat and ball. I mean, the guy has his own recording studio. That’s pretty neat. And this is, you know, when teenagers or young people didn’t even have a tape recorder.
But anyway, he’s got this expensive fully equipped recording studio, so therefore he’ll be the leader of the band. Who’s to argue? It’s his bat and ball. They pick up another three musicians along the way, Bunk Gardner, Don Preston,
Billy Mundy. They play a lot of crummy joints, topless bars, go-go palaces. They go to a party in L.A. A lot of important Hollywood-type people are there. The Mothers perform. They get more work, the Action Club, the Whiskey or Go-Go. The Mothers are formally founded on Mother’s Day 1965.
But Frank put out in 1974 the 10th anniversary booklet on the formation of the Mother’s Day, Mother’s 1964. So I was actually trying to figure that out, but recently I’ll have to check what the biographies say. Anyways, the Mothers are formally founded on Mother’s Day 1965. The name is slightly different.
There is no of invention. In its place is an unprintable collective noun. So that means mother fuckers. So they originally called them mother fuckers I guess. How’s that for trying to get gigs? I mean you’re just not going to get it. Nobody’s going to let you in.
I mean, Frank, it’s like what Frank said to iON on September 2nd, 2009, when we brought Frank in to talk to Ben Watson. iON was saying that Frank was always trying to sabotage his music. He wanted to upset people. That was his main thing. He got very pissed off when he got popular.
He’s all mission, but… This guy doesn’t want to be known. He doesn’t want to interact with any society. Anyway, this is a tremendous article in terms of how did this guy get this information so early. The cast of the mothers. Ray Collins. He’s lungs and ingenuity, looking like Bert Lahr’s bald in
Front cowardly lion. So that’s one of the characters in Wizard of Oz. Is that the one with the lion and the tin man? Right, looking like Bert Lahr’s bald in front cowardly lion.
That’s Ray Collins, lungs and ingenuity. And he’s really good at the R&B duo. Bunk Gardner, a virtuoso on eight instruments including the electric piccolo. Jim Black, or Jimmy Carl Black, percussion and bass trumpet, sings too. Don Preston plays about six instruments. Roy Estrada, electric bass, funny gestures.
Billy Mundy, percussion and voice make high-pitched noises. When they’re in the mood, this lineup can deliver incisive lampoons of earlier rock heroes without masking their true affection for them. More than parodies, these takeoffs are a homage to their precursors. He’s writing this stuff before even Rubin and Jets came out.
So this guy must have attended a lot of the Garrick Theater stuff. And I keep thinking I recognize the name. So maybe he’s somewhere in the Zappitland. He’s a known entity. But this is a tremendous article. It’s so early. More than parodies,
These takeoffs are homage to their precursors, the Doo-Wop and R&B. The thing about this article, this guy gets frank. Most people get one angle on him and say, oh, that’s what he is. This guy’s getting the whole range. Then he says, their original self is best described by the titles.
And he gives some of the titles. Mr. Green Jeans, spelled G-E-N-E-S, Call Indivisible, son of Susie Cream Cheese, who are the brain police. Then he says, these songs are performed to the accompaniment of, one, physical gestures, Marx Brothers humor, audience participation, and dissonant harmonic structures. That’s
What the songs are accompanied with. Then Frank, quote from Frank, sometimes the audience thinks some of the gestures are obscene. They’re right. Now Ray Collins, tearing off a strip from a head of lettuce, says, leaf us alone. L-E-A-F, leaf us alone. Then Frank says, we invite
Screamers and laughers up on the stage to blend with our music. Some of the sounds you get are priceless. Then the interviewer says, what about dissonance? And he says, it’s all carefully planned, not just noise music. We use dissonance of relative density. You know what he says about density. We use dissonance
Of relative density, graded on a psychological scale, to get a specific reaction. That’s McLuhan’s, the artist creates a specific effect. For example, a certain high-pitched woodwind combined with a high-pitched organ produces an emotional response. That’s what he says about Uncle Me, mixing together octaves and sounds
To create specific effects, not necessarily beneficial in the audience. He’s saying it’s very early. It’s all carefully planned, not just noise music. We use dissonance and relative density graded on a psychological scale to get a specific reaction. For example, a certain high-pitched woodwind combined with a high-pitched organ produces an emotional response.
Well, that’s pretty vague, emotional response, but Frank must know what it is. In 1965, the group was signed by MGM’s Verve Records and are forced to change their name. How about simply the mothers? Verve, the Verve company that signed them, polls the disc jockeys.
And the typical response was, so they checked out the disc jockeys, what do they say about mothers? And the DJ say, we won’t even say the word on the air, much less play the records, was the typical response. Another suggestion, how about the mother’s auxiliary suggest verb?
And the writer says, ick. So maybe Zappa vomited on that one. So the group settles on the mothers of invention. As they become more successful, their billing is starting to look something like this. The mothers in big capital letters and then small letters of invention. So they start to emphasize the mothers again.
Then the writer says, who knows, someday they may get their original name back. So the mothers cut Freak Out, the album, in March 1966. Squeeze in a month. Now I was doing some pretty interesting
Things in March 66. So there’s a nice synchronicity there. there personally i’ll keep that to myself the mothers cut freak out oh did you guys see that licio jelly died licio jelly he is the he’s the guy presented in coppola’s third godfather movie
The third one where they show the murder of the thirty day pope september nineteen seventy eight and presents licio jelly as the guy who murders the pope third one where they show the murder of the thirty-day pope, September 1978, and it presents
Licio Gelli as the guy who murders the pope. Now this guy can murder the pope and go on and still run for European Parliament. This guy was the man behind the scene in the Banco
Ambrosiano scandal. Frank writes about him, writes about Banco Ambrosiano in them or us. But let’s, I just said something. Oh yeah, I’m gonna check my diaries. I’m just gonna look at my diaries for a second. Timeline. Go down to March 66. Are you still there, Roxy? Did you get knocked out?
Okay, let’s see what happened. Roxy? I just muted myself. Yes, I’m here. Okay, you’re still there. Okay, good. You must hear everything. Everything I say, you must hear. Yes, I will be hearing everything about Hillary and all. Okay, so here it is. May 22nd, 1966. You can look up that diary entry.
It is in Rome and New York two places in the period May 22nd to May 31st 1966 so I have The person I’m speaking to I call him not so well-known European businessman So he says to me we’ve got to get a hook into this student unrest
That’s increasing in the United States. Since their leanings are to the left, it has to be through the socialist parties. Look for someone with a grievance in there, in the socialist parties. Bob flew into New York and soon after perusing the radical journals
For a while, he got in touch with a writer calling himself Lin Marcus. Then the conversation says, dobs, is Lin Marcus your real name? Marcus says, it’s Lyndon Hermyle LaRouche Jr. What’s your complaint? LaRouche says, well, I’m a Platonist. I’ve made some discoveries
That show that the real stream of Platonism is a story suppressed and untold. There’s a technological basis for the conflict between Aristotelianism and the real Platonism. Then I say, I think it was Coleridge who said men were either Aristotelians or Platonists.
LaRouche says, yes, and the Romantics were certainly no help to my antecedents in that century. No help to the Platonists. The Romantics were certainly no help to my antecedents in that century, my allies being thinkers like Humboldt and Riemann. Didn’t we go to the Humboldt College, Roxy, in Berlin? We walked by it?
Jawohl! Jawohl! And that’s where the little monument to books was hidden, right in the open asphalt parking lot behind the Humboldt School. Yeah, bookshelves, yeah. The tribute to the concentration camp. So LaRouche says, my allies being thinkers like Humboldt and Ryman. And
I go, so what is your strategy? LaRouche says, well he was still in markets at the time, but I’m calling him LaRouche. I’m going to offer a night class over at Columbia and create a cadre of students who can steer this revolution away from its present controllers who have
A decidedly Aristotelian utopian bent. Then I say, I’m a revolutionary myself, and I have funds available for you if you can show me some results and get your plans into action. Then there’s a descriptive sentence. The rest of the conversation was drowned out by Like a Rolling Stone as Bob and LaRouche
Left the restaurant on West 4th Street. So we’re talking and then like a Rolling Stone is playing, you know, through the street or off the store or something and drowns us out as we’re walking on West 4th Street. Guess who that not so well-known European businessman was? Leach O’Jelly.
Leach O’Jelly. was he’s so deadly leachate jelly leachate jelly with the one who got on behalf of the vatican got larouche to get into the uh… through me into the uh… s d s in the radical columbia scene in sixty eight and why don’t we just grab this for a second
Because frank was interested in leachate jelly we talked about leachate jelly me and frank and that’s why he refers to he refers to uh… the bank of rosianna that jelly was running behind the scenes so the new york times does an obituary now look at this leachate jelly italian financier and cabal leader
Cabal leader you’re thinking of a real live conspiracy guy! That’s what they call him! Dies at 96 years old. What do you think of that, Roxy? That’s what they’re going to say about me. Bob Dobbs, uh… solar banker, financier, and successful world revolutionary. And cabal leader on the side as a hobby.
Does not die at 105,000 years old. What? I didn’t hear that global boy what go go boy on
Baby is she saying local boy Bert go go go go go go go go go go go go go go Go Go Boy. You mean like a Go Go Girl? Go Go Dancer? Yeah. Oh yeah, that’s right. I did, I was a Go Go Dancer today. That’s right.
What I did today is still invisible environment. It hasn’t even registered on my brain. Go Go Boy. Yes, Go Go Boy. You’re correct again. That’s the most important curriculum. What did she say, Bert? The most important what? Your, your most important, most important, most important, most important, most important curriculum.
I didn’t hear that. I didn’t hear that. I didn’t hear that. I didn’t hear that. I didn’t hear that. I didn’t hear that. I didn’t hear that.
I didn’t hear that. I didn’t hear that. I didn’t hear that. I didn’t hear that. I didn’t hear that. What did she say, Bert? The most important what? Your most important achievement in your curriculum. What I did today?
Yeah your go-go dancing did you like it? and your air guitar. and air guitar yes. who knows what you created with that Shiva dance? yes good point well I knocked out Bill’s phones we couldn’t get phone in or Gus
I don’t know worked up and horny so he didn’t want me calling anybody else. He wanted me off to himself. But the, what we’re just saying, but look at this. Leapfrog Jelly, Italian financier and cabal leader, dies at 96. You see, he in 1945 was a go-between for the Nazis and the Communists.
See, this guy was part of the secret world government, you know, the part that overlaps all the teams, all the different gangs. And books were written on him, and one of the most interesting statements somebody wrote
Said, Lisa Ujeli is the closest we’re going to find out of someone who is a linchpin between statements uh… somebody wrote said lisa jelly is the closest we’re going to find out of someone who is a lynchpin between the lower oligarchs
And the secret oligarchs that we know nothing about and will never know anything about Lisa Jelly is the last guy you’ll get before you go into the unknown zone which is Dobstown of course. What about the bop? Who me? Yes. That’s right. Yes. What about me?
Well, Leecho Jelly, I can’t say that I taught him everything he knew. He was three years older than me, but we were of the same generation. And he’s dead and I’m not. So basically this is a, that’s what my dance was. It was a fucking victory dance because Lee Chill fucking dropped dead.
It was a victory dance. And guess who told me this? Sue Bone told me. She’s in Amsterdam or someplace. Sends me an email. Let’s see if we can read what, I sending email that’s the beginning read what they are
And if you don’t want to call me that’s what it would go and died uh… you know the one who uh… found that i in the parking lot back small uh… and now if you have to hear it’s like to sit around just sit down waiting for a key moments when she will
Communicate key facts to Bob right you know like she’s waiting in Europe wandering around so it says headlined it came in December 18th and that was yesterday lychee jelly obit in the telegraph and she says you may have seen it already
Bob lychee jelly obituary in the telegraph reading a copy here in Amsterdam. So she sent me the article. So it’s to her credit for seeing it and knowing its value, knowing it’s important. So let’s get back to this. I’ll just read a bit of the article.
Right? What do you think? Wouldn’t it be nice to hear? Yeah. And let’s remember, this is the shit that Frank was interested in. I talked to him about it and he mentions it in Them or Us. So it says, so how is the New York
Times going to write about a conspiracy theory fact or conspiracy theory implication? Well they call him cabal leader. So, Licio Gelli, a buccaneering Italian fancier and self-professed fascist who is implicated in terror crimes, scandals, and a secret society that with him as its grandmaster was accused of plotting a right-wing coup.
This is not a valid menu option. Well we know that. Died on Tuesday at his villa in Arezzo, Italy. He was 96. Now what happened on Tuesday? We got some really good news on Tuesday. Very interesting that he goes in this important week. So fucking important, Iain
Had to show up and cancel the phones. You know. Iain was here today, Bert. He was, I was here today Bert. He was emailing me privately about why he was making it difficult. Okay, so it says… Uh oh. Uh oh. Listen to this. I am back it’s like in the movies
Where is the treasure? the treasure is I need it Bob what? you probably shouldn’t have brought it I am too hard listen to this I am I am too hard I am too hard I am too hard I am too hard I am too hard I am too hard I am too hard
I am too hard I am too hard I am too hard I am too hard I am too hard I am too hard I have brought up iON too hard. iON came back, or was always there, and just shutting down. Yeah, we have to sing, um, video killed the radio star. Ha ha.
ION. iON. Ha ha. What are you trying to tell us with this contrast? Ha ha. What do we have to learn? That’s funny. Okay, Bill? Bill! Yes, I’m back. I’m back. I’m very vulnerable. I had to email him.
Bill, call me. I mean, I can’t get him. As a matter of fact, I just want to see why is… You know, why I get knocked off, but I’m back, so it doesn’t mean anything.
But it didn’t look good there for a minute. I’m just starting the bio, and they won’t let me broadcast it. Yes, you say, listen to this. the good music a that’s good sound stuff but we can use that use that in a sample
Listen to this I mean Jesus Christ I still got his band on my phone I’m calling the other phone and I mean other people can call in. I’m not allowed to call in. It’s not connecting. Okay, but we’re back. Did we finish the…
Oh, okay. Before we… I got distracted, but we’re going to go back to Lisa. We need to finish this article. Tremendous article by Joe Mancini. Okay, so we’re at the point where what? They’re calling in the posters of the mothers bigger letters than the phrase of invention.
And then the mothers cut, who knows, someday they may get their original name back. The mothers cut freak out in March 1966, squeeze in a month at Dust Swamp, a club in Hawaii, then a few gigs in San Francisco and back
To L.A. The police start to clamp down on some of the joints on the Sunset Strip and the Mothers run into a dry spell. Frank says, we starved for a long time last year. That’d be 1966. In November they cut Absolutely Free, the second album.
They get an engagement at the Balloon Farm in New York City’s East Village from Thanksgiving till New Year’s. Things are looking up. A job in Montreal, actually I looked that up in my own itinerary, he played in Montreal for two weeks and my friend Tommy Perry saw
Them there at the, it’s called the New Purple or something. The New Purple Onion, the club. We went to it a year later. A job in Montreal, then back to the West Coast. By Easter they’re in New York City again at Granny’s Village’s Garrick Theater. There they’ll stay until September.
Then the last paragraph it says, Frank Zappa, mother, mother, thinker, something of a success. Frank Zappa, mother mother, thinker, something of a success. He’s a producer for MGM. He produces the mothers for them. So Frank is a producer category of his own band. A, he’s a composer for Capitol
Records. That’s when he was doing Lumpy Gravy, early 67. He’s created and conducted a ballet for them, Lumpy Gravy. He wants a puppeteer to do the choreography. Remember, he did puppetry as a kid. Frank Zappa, hyphen, skeletal, long hawk nose, piercing eyes, unkempt, but up close, not really all that ugly.
Dash has a purpose. Frank Zappa has a purpose. Quote, he says, today in the United States, there’s a group of people, I know they gotta be out there, who don’t care whether they’re hip, hep, swinging, or zorch. These people have the ability to motivate social change. We’re here to assist
And encourage them. I want to reach the vast minority. There it is. The vast minority. The one percenters, the vast minority. That’s right. Good point. He wants to reach the one percenters. There it is. Preonic. There it is, pre-ionic. Well, I’m glad I read this. I’d never read this before.
Today, in the United States, there’s a group of people, I know they’ve got to be out there, who don’t care whether they’re hip, hep, swinging, or zorch. These people have the ability to motivate social change. We’re here to assist and encourage them.
I want to reach the vast minority. So I can read McLuhan or Eric McLuhan spelling out ionic statements about the power of the word. Then we can go over to Frank and he’s doing another part of iON. Isn’t that incredible? We’re piecing together the puzzle here. And he also uses the word assist.
He doesn’t say to help but to assist like Yeah good point. Yes good very good point. He’s ionic he’s not really not matter of fact once um he said uh a father said to him uh my son is
Really into your music you know loves your stuff and Frank says well I hope it doesn’t interfere with his world his life. He actually wanted to help, no, influence people without getting in their way. So yeah, we’re here to assist and encourage them. Pretty fucking rational, comprehensive statement, right?
Worthy of an artist manifesto. And then right after that, there’s a magazine, it’s a teen magazine, there’s an ad for Hagstrom Guitars. They feature Frank. And he’s holding a guitar and he’s sitting in a chair with the back of the chair in front of him. And he looks pretty sinister.
And the title of the ad is folk rock is a drag. This is right when the Dylan and the birds are a big deal in Los Angeles and Frank’s already trying to say fuck the trends, fuck the fads and Harry Strum agreed let’s put this
Nice positive statement in our ad picture Pitcher Frank saying folk rock is the drag. Woo! Heh heh heh. And then a magazine called On the Scene presents a special issue called Freak Out. Freak Out USA. It says Freak Out USA is wild, fall 1967.
And it has different bands like Mamas and the Papas, Twiggy, Jefferson Airplane, Loving Spoonful, The Supremes, Paul Revere and the Raiders, The Fugs, and Mamas and the Papas. And for the Mothers of Invention, it says, Greasy, Freaky, Insane, the headlines. And they have this picture of Frank Frank who looks like Rasputin,
You know, one of the insane Russian guys who influenced the Czarist family. That’s when Frank has pictures of himself looking absolutely nuts. Like psychotic, an early predictor of Charles Manson or something. But that’s uh… that’s pretty neat now uh… there’s another article
Says frank zappa quote we don’t have a society we have a colony of animals uh… uh… colony of animals and remember he one of the people in this list of people in frigo is called animal huxley you sort of want to think about all this actually but it’s animal huxley this article says
Uh… it’s not that long but probably get some good quotes frank zappa i don’t think i read this uh… okay frank zappa the chap with the long stringing hair in the long stringy beard weird offbeat way out yeah you bet he is at least that’s the way he looks looks italicized
That’s the way he is being merchandised to the record by public now look here’s a teen magazine and the teen writers do not tell people we’re marketing the monkeys to you this has been planned by our executive producer. The article’s on Frank, he’s telling the kids that this has been planned.
You’re being framed, is what he’s saying to the kids. That’s the way he is being merchandised to the record-buying public, and that’s his image. Kooky, like he’s on a got a trip freaking out all the rest in the regular world there are surprises in store readers big unexpected mean surprises
They just repeat the word surprises i interviewed frank Zappa recently after being warned it it might be a good approach to the godfather of our fear you want to be afraid It’s like you’re approaching the Godfather of the Mahaviyya. You want an interview, Frank? You may not come out of this alive.
So he said, After being warned, I was told that he was well different, unusual, nonconforming. And he was, every bit of the way, from the hair and beard to the clothes he wore. Unconventional, to say the least. But appearances are deceiving are italicized. Not that one could consider Frank Zappa normal,
Normal in quotes. He isn’t. And a good thing that’s true. And then here’s the first quote from Frank. We don’t endorse any drugs, he said calmly, sincerely, his tone matter of fact. Or artificial means that would do anything to change the consciousness of a single individual.
So he’s not endorsing any drugs or artificial means that would do anything to change the consciousness of a single individual. Well that means Frank would not endorse the RNA drops. There’s a bit of a difference there, right? Unless he would at this late stage.
Maybe if he was still alive he would have changed this. It’s 50 years later. So the journalist says, pointed out, but your image is psychedelic. And Frank says, psychedelic is a very handy word. He retorted, a convenient label.
It’s not something we apply to ourselves, but an impression fostered by a group of greedy business. It’s not something we apply to ourselves, but an impression fostered by a group of greedy businessmen willing to equate nonconformity with some else’s jargon and manner. The two don’t in themselves go together.
They can or they may not. They can go together or they may not. In our case, it’s the latter. So remember we had one of those people, Carl Franzoni, one of the dancers. We read his article in the LA Free Press saying that they were not into the conformity of
LSD, the Fed. So Frank’s saying the same thing. Then the guy asks Frank, why do you think the use of LSD has increased so rapidly in our society? Frank replied, I do not believe we have a society. What we have is a colony of animals. I don’t believe
There are any human beings around. Wow! Look at that! In light of the robots in the play Wow! Look at that! In light of the robots in the play, Captain Beaver vs. the Grunt People in 1969, probably written around the time of this interview. Look at that! He’s saying there’s no human scale.
I don’t believe there are any human beings around. Now, what is really interesting is a science fiction book, called science fiction by a theater surgeon, called More Than Human. And Frank said that was one of his favorite books. That’s pretty interesting. And that’s about psychic people.
They have a little baby, a little weird guy, another weird guy. It’s like five or six little weirdos that live off the fringe of society. And they all have these talents. But it’s very cutely laid out. So, more than human. So he’s saying, I don’t
Believe there are any human beings around. We merely fantasize that we have reached the human level of achievement. Now there’s a new agey statement. We merely fantasize that we have reached the human level of achievement. The bomb, war, prejudice are however only products of sub-humans.
I am trying to use the weapons of a disoriented and unhappy society against itself. The mother’s invention are designed to come in the back door and kill you while you’re sleeping. This is how calm, how naive the society was back there.
You could say shit like this and nobody would arrest you. They’d just think you were joking. Nobody was that bad. The most of it is designed to come in the back door and kill you while you’re sleeping. Now here’s Frank being interviewed
In the Teen Magazine. What would a teenager think of this? Then he says, one of our main short range objectives is to do away with the top 40 broadcasting format because it is basically wrong, unethical and unmusical. See how he is trying to program a better kind of music? That is Roxy’s thesis.
And he goes, sure we are satirists and we are out to satirize everything.
Most of the guys in this band feel that we are going to do something to help. So he says, we are not to satirize everything. Most of the guys in this band feel that we’re going to do something to help. So he says, we’re not just satirists.
Sure we’re satirists and we are out to satirize everything. Most of the guys in this band feel that we’re going to do something to help. Then it says, Frank’s definition of freaking out further reinforced my suspicion that he might have a brain beneath all the hair.
Quote, it’s a process whereby an individual casts off outmoded and restricting standards of thinking, dress, and social etiquette in order to express creatively his relationship to his immediate environment and the social structure as a whole. Then the writer says, few groups are born with more planning. Few groups are born with
More planning, though the, excuse me, few groups are born with more planning though the mothers of invention certainly seem like a freaky spur of the moment bunch that’s an important point they look like they’re making it up and winging it all the time Frank adds an ant environment to himself
Pretending he’s totally planning it all eh? you like that? yeah Roxy what do you think of that Roxy? MiniMax is defining his audience. MiniMax up and down, writes in, defining his audience. Yeah, what did you say Bert?
It seems like it’s a plan within a plan. He’s just becoming an anti-environment to an anti-environment. It’s just in this teen magazine. That was in 1966 or 67? 67. 67. Wow. Roxy’s been muted. So she’s unmuted now. She got knocked off. You see this Roxy? He’s a test-fed manager.
He’s highly controlled, highly effectually oriented, but at the same time, ready for statistical improbabilities to be incorporated. So he’s managing chance and order, doing both. And he can rely on the audience. He said that he doesn’t believe there’s any people
There is only people who are not. Yes the people who are not there everybody else subhuman there there are humans around but we don’t know who they are or what they are. Now I wonder if he’s saying all this after having met me and Carolyn
Could we have influenced him did we did we 65, 66 have some kind of effect on him? And what could be? Infected is non-physical. What did you say? We affected his non-physical? Yes. Infected is non-physical. Infected, yes. I like that. Few groups are born with more planning
Though the mothers of a vision certainly seem like a freaky spur-of-the-moment bunch greece and i think it’s a much a major jazz and pop critic in this fifties and sixties writing for a rolling stone and but he died around the late sixties i think
He sees the mothers up in San Francisco and he says, these are a bunch of ad men, ex-ad men trying to fool kids. Like he totally saw the planned part and thought it was evil. He hated Frank. It’s interesting how he saw them.
You know, what cause did he… Frank was seeing the same thing McLuhan saw that advertisement was the new magic that you have to communicate like art to reach the audience with this type of slogans and this type of… Well he was showing that in the head, journalism is an ad,
And he’s showing the manipulation of it. He’s discussing the medium that the kids are engaging, that articles are PR releases. And he spends his whole article talking about how he’s organizing this as a PR brainwash thing. Very good. It’s anti-marketing, anti-other thing. Yeah, everything. Now look at this.
I have not either, I might have read this 40 years ago, long forgotten, but I incorporated the ideas of my understanding of what Frank is. I mean, when I say Frank’s a satellite conductor, these articles are what back me up, even though I said that 30 years later.
So he says this, we were carefully hatched in the best tradition of American business. What an amazing statement. We all know that the major successful big corporations all started with an astrological reading or talking to some fucking medium. So was Frank talking to some medium?
He says we were carefully hatched in the best tradition of american business see McLuhan says with the sputnik by the sixties you’ve got a programmed global theater everybody’s trying to run around and be free and do their own thing because they intuit that is that globally has to be programmed situation
Huge It has to be a programmed situation. Huge. Let me, let’s just take this. Where was that? And that’s in Civilization Phaze III. Yes. And Francis, do your thing. What is to do your thing? And he discusses what does do your thing mean.
He says put a motor in yourself and go do do do, do do do. Laughter. So here is the last line, the last paragraph of Through the Vanishing Point, which is the last quote, pretty well the last section of Eric’s long essay on formal cause. And it says, the artist, okay,
Whereas the ordinary person seeks security by numbing his perception against the impact of new experience, the artist delights in this novelty and instinctively creates situations that are both reveal it and compensate for it. The artist studies the distortion of sensory life produced by new environmental programming. Steve McLuhan would not have said
Environmental programming in the 50s, but he’s saying it in the 60s after the satellite has created the global theater. The artist studies the distortion of sensory light produced by new environmental programming and tends to create artistic situations that correct the sensory bias and derangement brought about by the new form.
Sensory bias and derangement brought about by the new form. In social terms, the artist can be regarded as a navigator who gives adequate compass bearings in spite of magnetic deflection of the needle by the changing play of forces.
So understood, the artist is not a peddler of new ideals or lofty experiences. He is rather the indispensable aid to action and reflection alike. Then Eric says this, sort of developing that, if the vortex of effects arrives first,
Then we can escape it as Al-Ghurayl and Poe suggest, only by formal structural study of its action. We can manipulate any environmental vortex by judicial design of counter-environments and by controlling and designing the mix of technologies we release in our environment. But such an ecology of media,
Of culture necessitates extensive training in the arts and widespread training of formal awareness has ever been at odds with the demands of practical necessity. Read that again. Widespread training of formal awareness has ever been at odds with the demands of quote
Practical necessity. Perhaps it is time for the roles of artists and bureaucrats slash entrepreneur to reverse positions. Our new world of chaos and complexity is too volatile, too precarious, too important to be left in the hands of the merely practical administrator. And there you have it, why iON showed up to Bob.
Bob, the most impractical fucking idiot on the planet. But I do have the training, the widespread training of formal awareness. You get it? Nice? Nice closing statement by Eric? You actually got what the oleophatic means. I got what phatic means? Oleophatic, the whole picture. Yes, I did get that.
All right, back to you. Because until now, everybody was contemplating only aspects, different aspects of what we call reality or what we think we are. Okay. But it’s not a complete view. Yes, because we’re still sort of understanding these things with the frequencies and then…
Okay, what you just said, now Frank, are you there Bert? Yes, I’m here frank is being totally impractical here he’s he’s sabotaging his own image he’s doing the same role here to kill you I mean talk about being impractical okay so it says
We were carefully hatched in the best tradition of american business programmed to do a specific job see that’s the scenario that’s uncle meat program ruben ejetsis mexican band patuco rock to do a specific job. See that’s the scenario. That’s Uncle Meat program
Ruben the Jets’ Mexican band, Particul Rock, to take over the population and bring back the 50s. Frank is saying that’s what he’s doing, but he’s also saying that he is working for someone else. That guy who says, you know, Laurel Canyon was a CIA conspiracy, Frank’s admitting it we were pretty good job
That that that that what you think with the fact for control of our part of working for bob i’d show up every six months doctor frank deal with what it would look like it’s going on but that in practical guide to a restraint okay uh…
So it’s a little bit we We were carefully, this is beautiful. This is the Uncle Meat scenario. We were carefully hatched in the best tradition of American business, programmed to do a specific job and we had been quite successful thus far. We, he’s got, how is he successful? Anyways, he’s just getting started.
This is probably the fall of 67. And it says, we are aiming for the consumer group. People who have certain hang-ups that can be expressed and worked out in song. It doesn’t matter if our music makes sense.
You know, this reminds me of iON when he says, we’re not here to make you happy, we’re not here to… Exactly. This is the closest to… It’s like, you know, you’ve got Thompson, Kroker, McLuhan, and LaRouche, and Zappa, and May Brussels,
They all are aspects of the elephant of Ionambdom saying one aspect of it. Here he is, he is being ionic and McLuhan is being ionic at another level. Look at this, it doesn’t matter if our music makes sense, if people want a pile of rubbish we’re going to give just that to
Them. You’ve got to realize, if you of young baby boomer teenagers reading this shit. What do they think this guy is? He’s definitely saying we’re not in it for the money. We don’t even give a fuck. You’re right, it’s ionic. We’re here to fuck you up. And the guy writing
The article says, oh this Frank, he’s pretty smart, pretty clever. They detect the brilliance of Frank, these young journalists. You know what I mean? They said, there’s something funny going on here. This guy is so blatantly, let’s read that again. We were carefully hatched in the best tradition of American business,
Programmed to do a specific job, and we have been quite successful thus far. We will give people rubbish if they want it! We are aiming, I guess that’s him, the composer, talking about the rock pop world that he’s forced to play in.
We are aiming for the consumer group, people who have certain hang-ups that can be expressed and worked out in song. It doesn’t matter if our music makes sense. If people want a pile of rubbish, we’re going to give just that to
Them. Well today, in the second hour, people heard an hour of me trying to get the phones working. Avant-garde musical happening. Bob tried to get Iodine and stopped fucking with the phone from the non-physical realm. Fucking hilarious. Okay, so the journalist after hearing that quote and typing it up, he says,
Honest, outspoken, no question marks, he says, honest, outspoken, yes, very. Then he quotes Frank again. Frank’s epic contents, quote, society, and I use that label loosely, can’t be healthy without art. Now he’s talking like McLuhan. America stifles art.
Now, Frank is saying, he’s not saying, like McLuhan said, the artist knows what’s going on, the consequences of our time, the effects of new media, new knowledge. He doesn’t mean anybody who’s calling himself an artist or even being lauded as an artist. The artist McLuhan’s talking about is McLuhan, who nobody understands.
Well Frank’s doing the same thing. He’s saying America stifles art. So America stifles a fucking psychopath who wants to give rubbish to people. Okay? Look at the kind of nation he’s in. Society, and I use that label loosely, can’t be healthy without art. America’s Cyphers art.
Little is created unless it serves a commercialistic need. I.e. jingles for a Pepsi-Cola announcer. Ours is a materialistic mechanistic age. It’s confused, topsy-turvy, and erratic. If current art seems to possess similar qualities, that’s to be taken for granted.
Art at its best always is projecting what is happening at the time it is made. So that’s, that is, McCool would criticize that a little bit. That’s pop art, that’s merging with the present. Frank is not, McLuhan is not for pop art merging with the present, and neither is Frank merging.
But right there, a little bit old-fashioned, mechanistic age, no it’s not a mechanistic age, it’s organically electric, but Frank and McLuhan can’t agree on everything. But he’s saying that art has to be to to be toxic to be an erratic and fucked up because that’s what they are world is
Then then the guys and remember the guy start saying i was warned i was warned because it’s a pretty good not everybody would enjoy interview with frank zappa as i as i said before he looks weird offbeat way out and he is in the sense that true nonconformity
Daring creative thinking and pure frank honesty are rare offbeat and so on and so on he’s becoming ironic in his own journalism. Then he says, not everybody would like Frank Zappa or The Mother’s Invention, but you know something? I’m one cat who does.
He likes Frank. Okay, you can’t be healthy without art. McLuhan gets on there saying, you know, new art is nutrition. America stifles art. Little is created unless it serves a commercialistic need, i.e. jingles for a Pepsi-Cola announcement. Now here’s where McLuhan says that advertisement is the only art form in the 20th century.
That Frank may not understand. Or he might understand, but he certainly doesn’t talk about it as if he understands it. He’s against the commercial. He thinks art is something else. So this is the fine line of Frank being a little uneducated and non-sophisticated. But who gives a fuck? His art did it.
His art knew what to do, whether Frank understood it or not. I mean, I’m being very technical here. You wouldn’t say materialistic mechanistic age unless you’re a cliche human being or a subhuman. You have to know why McLuhan says it’s not a mechanistic age.
You have to know how electric media are new life, new organic being. Frank later, 20 years later, does say radio gives new life. So maybe Frank learned stuff over the next 10, 15 years talking to me and a few other people. He changed slightly his statements about things.
But what a great interview, eh? I mean look, this is consistent with what we were doing a month ago, talking about Frank planning, miming being Uncle Meat, pretending to be programmed by Uncle Meat. I did not know that he actually said it here in this interview.
We were carefully hatched in the best tradition of American business, programmed to do a specific job and we have been quite successful thus far. What’s your job, Frank? We provide a pile of rubbish. It aren’t at its best, always projecting what is happening at the time it is made.
And society can’t be healthy without Frank’s rubbish. Awesome, great thing. What is this? Here’s an ad for Absolutely Free the album in a teen magazine. It says, Absolutely Free. free the album in a teen magazine it says absolutely free freedom from inhibitions that is freedom of form and content
But you do have to lay out cash for the album in brackets your friendly record dealer they don’t want you to steal it he’s not going as far as abby hoffman who a year later will put out a book called Steal This Book.
In brackets, your friendly record dealer would take a dim view of any other approach. Close bracket. Then he says, for less than five bills, you’re… For less than five bills, you get 13 underground oratorios. Imagine a kid reading this oratorio. What’s that? Including plastic people, brown shoes don’t make it,
And American drinks. All the irreverent tradition of Freecoat, the mother’s first album. So you’re going to get the irreverent tradition of Freecoat. You also get a double fold cover with the front and back opening upright to form a collage that’s a trip in itself. You
Could, there he is using the language of marketing. You could even get the unexpurgated, you could even get the unexpurgated libretto in brackets per instructions inside the album which can be mailed to you in a plain brown psychedelic wrapper. Contradiction of terms right? Plain brown psychedelic wrapper. Don’t be an underground cop out.
Don’t be an underground cop out. Update your scene with the mothers of invention. Look, update your sensibility. That’s the role of the artist. He spells it out. This thing was programmed. I think Marshall McLuhan and I created Frank Zappa.
I did make an army. This ad comes out right after we have that meeting in june eighteen ninety seven at stanley’s in the east village where frank met mccormick first time probably did influence them even though there’s glimpses of it in the year before it is that in the uh… l a weekly
Or l a three-pronged i suppose i would say there is a little this type of non-physical influence that you are not aware of the effects of meeting this new technology called WAP and McLuhan and how it is going to affect you, how to create your own non-physical.
Right for most people non-physical would be God. And is God ESP? Yes, non-physical, Bob creating through non-physical, no wonder I influenced every major event of the 20th century. Look, and it has the cover of absolutely free. Yes, go ahead. If the non-physical is one for all, Yes.
Maybe there’s some, because of this vibrational frequency, the same, how does I say, the vibrational… Proximity. Similarity or proximity. Vibrational proximity is a phrase that iON uses. Yeah, that somehow what you want to create can be maybe, like Matuan said, the artist is the antenna of the human race.
Yeah. This is the antenna of the human race. Maybe he can tune in into this non-physical that is going to bring the ionic. Right. And somehow. Just for the record, in case there’s any nitpickers, Ezra Pound said the artist is the antenna of the race. McLuhan used it, but Pound gets the credit.
So in this ad, he has the cover of the album the way he says it would be. It’s opening upright to former collage that’s a trip in itself. So it has the mothers looming over the city, the town, the highway, Los Angeles, with all these little cartoon cars going beep beep beep beep.
But here’s what it says. Move your goods with patriotic sell. Buy America. It’s with a flag, American flag. It says buy America, move your goods with patriotic sell. Move your goods, that’s a macoon phrase. Moving our goods. The economist, an economist, magic key, move your goods with patriotic sell.
What does that mean? an economist, Magic Egon, move your goods with patriotic soul, and then it has a picture of a dead tree and it says, this tree is ugly and it wants to die. Now he uses the word tree, that’s Ethel. Ethel’s a tree on the side of Billy the Mountain, later.
Then he says, it says, you must buy this album. They’re not trying to seduce you, you know, softly, they just say, You buy this album, you are out of here, you are gone. You must buy this album. And he says, Top 40 Radio will never ever play it.
Buy this album. Buy this and this is buy this something right now or something. Then it buy this something right now or something. Then it has other buy a Fido belt, buy a Fido. Now he has a dog named Fido later. This is buy a Fido, fits well. Crummy, crumbly and
Buy some. Some company. Crummy, crumbly and buy some. Another one says buy this. Buy, buy. It says the word buy all over the place and has something called f k d and son makers of it looks like something for bad teeth now the bad teeth ends up on the local meat cover
Which el chico does it so this cover was designed by frank himself i understand anyways they still statements Anyways, nice little statements. And above all this buy advertising, so it’s like a congested downtown LA scene with all these cars bumping and beeping at each other.
Over, over, arching over the town is the phrase, the screen, absolutely free! That’s, that’s, it’s like the opening of, big letter, absolutely free, and it’s showing you a polluted concentration camp. And remember, Uncle Meat, no, 200 Motels, it takes place with a concentration camp,
And in the little town known as Centerville. And the opening line of Gravity’s Rainbow, and Thomas Pynchon has commented on Zappa, screaming came across the sky, some kind of rocket, V2 rocket, something like this, screaming,
You know, screamed, the screaming came roaring across the sky. It was landing in London. It’s like this, these words screaming across the sky, absolutely free. So it says, don’t be an underground cop-o. Update your scene with the mother’s invention. He understands that every six, he says every 18 months there’s a new fad.
So he understands that every scene, every scene’s going to become a fad, compromised by the pink conspiracy. And then you’re going to become a fad, compromised by the pink conspiracy. And then you’re going to have to change your sensibilities to get into the new hidden ground. He actually says that.
Update your scene with the Mother’s Invention. Absolutely free. Absolutely bananas. That means insane. So he’s pretending to be insane, yet he actually does look insane when you actually go see a concert. Well, this is probably the last time Frank was in pop culture, you know, teen magazines.
No, that’s not true. They were in other, better teen magazines. The other thing is the thugs. I have a couple of articles here on the thugs. that they were in other better teen magazines. The other thing is the FUGs. I have a couple of articles here on the FUGs.
They were like the East Coast version of the Mothers People Thought. Yeah, it says, Young taste in music is changing. The FUGs, together with the Mothers of Invention, are representative of this new concept. But that’s just the power of art. When you’re a powerful artist, you will be noticed. Right? Yeah.
That’s why he, um, he was going counter to the, it seems that he was going counter to the pop culture because of the way the music was outlined outline and he would say his stuff was rubbish but it was really well orchestrated uh… a layout of music from his traditional training
Yeah he was trying to do perceptual training like real art it’s you know mcclure is doing on a very sophisticated level for for the national security agencies and for intelligence agencies frank is doing it on a very sophisticated level for the national security agencies and for intelligence agencies.
Frank is doing it on the street level in youth culture. The same message. We’re here to update your sensibilities. Now, here’s what’s interesting. I actually have in this binder the actual fucking map that you send away for. The actual freak out hot spots
You get this huge fucking thing man, it’s a huge map of uh… of LA and right in the middle, this is the book Frank put together and there’s a couple of photographs, one photograph is cops beating up a kid this is what a teenager would get if they sent away for this.
It says, all I wanted was a pastrami sandwich. And the cop is saying, silence fool. Beat the shit out of him. And then it has a, it’s pretty neat, it has, um, Hey kids, wanna set up a bus? Dial this number.
And it’s a card, it says the Los Angeles Police Department, Detective Bureau, presented by, it gives a name and a number, please keep this card for reference. It’s actually a card, you’re supposed to phone the cops department and bust your buddies.
It says, hey kids, you want to set up a bust? Dial this number. And the number is 624-5211. So there’s the 22, got the 22 right in there. 150 North Los Angeles Street, room 321, extension 2521, there’s your 22. It says, designed by Frank Zappa, mother invention,
1966, ad, Freeco Productions. Then it says about this card, about, hey kids, wanna set up a bus, dial this number. Says it’s a cop-out card, carried by Finks for protection during a routine investigation. Ask for yours today. He’s telling kids how to get cars so when
You get busted, you say,, no, no, I’m working for you cops. I’m a Fink. It’s a cop on a car carried by Finks for protection during a routine investigation. Pretty neat, eh? So, yeah, the picture of the kid being beat
Up by the cops seems to be a shot from a movie so on the side it says, from a highly recommended film so it’s probably a local underground film the film’s called Blue Fascism Blue Fascism and then it has it has an area of West Hollywood it says Ghetto Number One
On West Mount Drive then in the center part uh… will be happy with ghetto number two that up north by the hall of freeway to get a number three and it does not say the laurel canyon famous locating parties a ghetto but it gives all the street names and uh…
He called it a laurel canyon freak sanctuary and he calls it a Laurel Canyon Freak Sanctuary and then beneath it says mysterious hallucinogenic wasteland mysterious hallucinogenic wasteland that’s like Jim Morrison doing acid out in desert at the beginning of Oliver
Stone’s movie on the doors you ever you guys see that no didn’t see the doors. You guys see that? No. Didn’t see the doors. Oliver Stone. Probably about 1990. Everybody’s here. Now, what a wonderful map. I’ve not looked at this in 30 years.
And it then has 69 points along the border describing all the different places and all kinds of interesting jokes and statements. Woo! Ha ha ha. Woo! You like that? That was a little avagarde, concrete, electronic, concrete music. Let’s see. Look at this. Number 19. That’s Bob’s number. Gee-Gees. Some club called Gee-Gees. G-E-E-G-E-E.
Remember his first song was Gee by the Crows. Gee-Gees was a scene until it was mysteriously forced out of business. It is at this moment for rent. 8100 Sunset Boulevard next to Schwab’s Drugstore, across the street from Ah Fong’s
And Greenblatt’s Deli. The Ash Grove, that was a well known club, he says. Number 20, The Ash Grove features ethnic, ethnical, ethnocentric folk music. And folk is spelled F-O-L-Q-U-E. Folk, F-O-L-Q-U-E, muzik, M-U-S-I-Q-U-E. But it’s ethnic, ethnical, ethnocentric folk music.
Then he writes, dot, dot, dot, I remember when Bud and Travis used to work there, and Ed Pearl used to do ethno-political greasing for the newly founded cabaret at the Idlewild Folk Freak Sanctuary in 1958 before Hal Zeiger invented the Hootenanny.
Check it out at 8162 Melrose, phone 653-27. So this is actually Frank describing his own memories of the L.A. world. He says, number 23, the Blue Grotto Coffeehouse used to be nice and quiet until it got busted in the middle of the night. Meet and talk with the survivors at 1010 North Fairfax.
Meet and talk with the survivors of the bust. Then another one, number 25, site of a gigantic, well you’re supposed to look at, yeah, you look at the map and see where the numbers are. I forgot to do that. Number 25. Okay, there it is.
At number 25 it’s got a bomb exploding, little cartoon bomb exploding, helicopters flying over, black helicopters, a tank and some 1920s cannon in a guy. So it’s a disaster scene. They got like a nuclear bomb mushroom cloud coming out of 19… number 25. So what’s he call it? Number 25.
Site of a gigantic and festive bust, wherein much brutality and authoritarian BS was perpetrated, with the result that all parties involved served a lot of dead time, in brackets, time before trial, and got acquitted, in brackets, causing them great physical and mental discomfort and status loss. A lot of status.
Now that happened to him. He got busted like that a year or two before out in Cucamonga. Then he says, number 27, a club called the Brave New World is a very in, sort of late teen freak spot. Visit 1644 North Cherokee near Magoo’s on Hollywood Boulevard.
Number 28, the Omnibus is a coffee house next door to the wild thing at 1835 Coinga So he’s listening like a big ad for all of the scenes in LA He says Number 17 the fifth estate another place is one of those places that refuses to quit
Even after a whole series of scenes with the heat bravely situated at 8226 Sunset Boulevard and gives the phone number Pandora’s Box you hear that and the lyrics on Absolutely Free number 18, Pandora’s Box is another teeny bop underground stronghold a defiant little island at the top of the strip
With a picket fence around it and cops and ungenue freakos and lots of atmosphere but tiny. Try sitting at Fraschetti’s across the street and watching the heat surround the place while the kids scramble for
Cover. Like Saigon. It’s like Saigon in the war environment. You sit across the street and watching the kids scramble for cover. There’s the teenager getting this. And he goes, watch the heat surround, heat means the police, watch the heat surround the place while the kids scramble for cover. Keen fun.
So, what a wonderful map. Bob’s going through his own dusty, what do you call it, I’m going through my attic. It’s like visiting a parallel world. Yes, Bob in a parallel world discovers all this shit. I don’t even know how I got this stuff.
Well, I did visit Frank frank maybe he gave it to me uh… let’s see yeah in the in this this the crowded concentration camp uh… busy l a scene it says rotary that was a business man’s group says rotary meets here then beneath it john birch police center
So the police are John Birchers. Then there’s a guy with an ad, and it says, do you want power? Do you want power? We want our power back. Yes. And then it says, TV guy. Go ahead. Yes, we want our power back. That’s Ionic. That’s right.
And it says TV Guide, Guide which should be spelled G-U-I-D-E, it’s spelled G-Y-D-E. It says TV Guide, kills on contact.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha contact. So, it’s a wonderful thing. Now, are you laughing at my tones? Is that what you’re laughing at? I like when you go, woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo that was heavy, that was fucking scary the document is hidden here above secret stash
Whoo makes me wonder makes me wonder see the one with musical ears, Bert, digs the sound digss the sound, he’s into the sound. Rossi definitely believes that humor belongs in music. Yes, he does. Okay, so now we must go back to the famous Frank Kofsky interview, we never finished that.
Where this guy, he’s a, you know, he’s bringing up Bertolt Brecht, he’s a jazz expert, he’s a leftist, sophisticated guy and he’s trying to see how sophisticated Frank is. So we were reading, we stopped halfway through a couple of months ago. Let’s see, let’s start with, let’s just start with this.
What were you doing before you got the mothers together? He says, Zappa says, I had a recording studio and prior to that I was in advertising. Kofsky said, I heard you talking about UCLA. Did you go to college?
Zappa says, no, I dropped out of junior college after one semester. So he’s not saying that he actually went back and listened to this guy unless this is, this is the semester when he was listening to Carl Cohn. So it’s hard to tell what that is. Klosky says, so you’re a self-educated man.
But then everybody’s a self-educated man. But then everybody’s a self-educated man. Zappa says, it’s almost like college was invented by Madison Avenue so that after you’ve gone for a certain number of years and spent a certain amount of money on products which
They’re helping to sell to you, you’ll get a piece of paper that says you’re educated. So that’s the truth. You go there for a number of… You spend some money. It’s a mall, an intellectual mall. number of you spend some money it’s a mall an
Intellectual mall you go there spend money buy products then they give you paper say that you’re educated so Kofsky he liked that he goes that’s definitely where you get into depth and then you’re educated right that’s you now see now it’s post human back then you were you didn’t know it they
Pretended to be human and looked looked like they still were humans. Frank knew there were no humans. Now it’s obvious there are no humans and you’re just forced to go into debt. It’s literally an insect farm now. I work for you get your paper and there is no work.
Yes, the paper doesn’t work anymore. So definitely Frank is at the end of analogical media, the analogical global theater. The Android Meme is going to come in, start coming in in 69, 70, 71. And Frank has to adapt. Part of adapting is he breaks up the mothers in August 69.
He breaks up the band. He knows that there’s something different going on. I’ve got to make a different kind of art. And the Android Meme starts to creep in. And he actually begins to show it with that movie with both beef art. Both sides of the fight are robots, are machines.
So, Kofsky says, that’s definitely where it’s at, talking about Frank’s interpretation of the college. And all you have to do is teach in one to find that out. So I think Kofsky was a teacher. Nobody’s interested in getting an education in college. They’re simply interested in getting out. That might not
Be true at Harvard. There may be a few freaks around at the top schools who really want to learn something. But if you go out in the provinces like the University of Pittsburgh, forget it. That’s where you went, didn’t you Bert? University of Pittsburgh? No, no.
You went to the University of Baltimore or Maryland or what? I went to a small school in Maryland, one of the sister schools in Maryland. Was it not an all black school like Howard? No. Howard University, not like that. No. They let you mingle with the white kids? Yes. And that would be…
That was the school in the 70s, Pop. It was integrated in the 70s. Oh yeah, it’s a new world. The Enderman is trying to make itself look friendly. That’s right. It said everybody’s welcome to come on in. We don’t care about your race.
If you’re all dead, you’re all robots, you’re all dead. it’s a new world, the andro mean is trying to make itself look friendly that’s right, everybody is welcome to come on in, we don’t care about your race if you’re all dead, you’re all robots, but come on in, the water is fine
And uh… so yes, you’re ten years later yes and don’t you forget, i was there working for you assholes i was building the black caucus way back then okay yes all right the Andrew was running hard running
Really hard yes Bob was just revving up the Android beam but if you go to the provinces like the University of Pittsburgh that’s probably where Kofsky fucking forget it anything I’m interested in how you would classify the mothers, assuming you were forced to classify them.
In a musical sense, if you talk about a spectrum in music that extends from straight rock groups like the Jefferson Airplane and the other San Francisco groups on the one hand, to jazz groups like Archie Sheff’s group or John Coltrane’s group, so that’s a spectrum.
You know, the San Francisco hippie psychedelic scene over to extreme free jazz now in these terms how would you go about describing the mothers so frank kofsky is a critic who’s trying to figure out how to categorize the mothers you know what i mean as a critic you’ve got to do that
He thinks he has to so what’s frank going to say can you predict what he’s gonna say? No, you can’t predict what he’s gonna say. No. No. Alright. So it’s a good question. How would you go about describing the mothers? And Frank says it’s a collection of opposites.
That trad manager right there. Who? He’s not trying to be one side or the other man! Isn’t that awesome? Look at this! It’s a collection of opposites. Our music exists because we jam things that don’t belong together. Our music exists because we jam things that don’t belong together, together.
In other words, we attempt to do the impossible. Ah! Remember that? See, there’s always a fucking order that unfolds when you’re here at Club 22. We see Frank talking about doing the impossible, and now it’s spelled out here. Awesome, the way I go through my head.
It’s the first hour of payday. Yes, exactly. The first hour payday with the chaotic collection of musical opposites. You’re right. Jamming things together. Now that’s his definition of sinocrony. He said I would try to put things together that didn’t work. You know what I mean? And then they’d
Work. They’d sync up and it would be strange synchronicity he’s saying that our music exists because we jam things that don’t belong together or we because we we jam things that don’t belong together we were we were all entertained by
Your trying to fix things and and and nothing that’s right yes Frank was a super fixer and I come on and I go, well, okay, we’re going to have to do with the anti-virus Frank.
So I have to have Bob go on trying to even try to figure out where’s the, what is that phrase? The Sound Flower. Is that what it’s called? I can’t remember the name. Sound Checker. What is it? Sound Flower. Sound Flower. Get that. The Sound Flower.
Yes, Sound Flower. Two CH in brackets. Thatflower. Get that. The Soundflower. Yeah, Soundflower. Two CH in brackets. That’s my technical expertise. Move the ticker down to Soundflower, Bob. And it still doesn’t work. And then I don’t want you to play this music, the video Kill the Radio Star. Yeah.
If we just listen to some fragments? Bob turns it off halfway through because he can’t hear it. He’s using the wrong channel. He doesn’t know it’s broadcast. Yes. I can just hear the engineers thinking I’m the most incompetent space-bastic airhead ever.
Radio programmer. incompetent space spastic airhead ever radio programmer and yet it is the best fucking radio you could ever experience I just realized I’m a satire on Zappa because he was so efficient and skillful at the technical stuff
Yeah, every time it’s completely different, it’s like, just bands, and everybody’s entertained by the go-go boy, and then… They’re in the jail with the… No, but you… That’s right. Bob Wiles everybody, the first hour, the second hour, and he’s broken. And now he’s physically refusing to cooperate.
He won’t let me call my own radio station. They fucking cut me off! He… I.N. writes to me. I don’t even know what his problem is. I.N. didn’t like your dance or what? Yes! Something pissed him off. He… Okay, I can’t get on.
You know, let’s see. Oh, he sent me this awesome view of the gardens around Shamboard Castle. And I said to him, you can’t, this is earlier when I was talking to him, I said, I’ve never seen that picture. He said, yeah, you can’t get that picture, Bob.
He sent me a unique picture of the whole area around with the moat he he uh… he sends what uh… k i’m always doing business he sends me a fucking tax avoidance article you know while they’re trying to entertain i’m trying to dance and he said bob pay attention
We need to deal with this new there’s a new trend companies are leaving the united states are doing what’s called inversion. Inversion. Um… let’s see what the headline is. Um… It’s called… it says, Tax Avoidance, subtitled, The Irish Inversion. And it says, U.S. companies are shifting their headquarters abroad to protect growing
Overseas cash piles, more piles of rubbish. Anyways, he sends me that while I’m trying to fucking get some work done, entertain the people. And then he sends this article with a beautiful picture. He’s always playing opposite. He sends me great stuff and then he sends me insulting stuff.
So, he writes to me after fucking up the whole show, the whole second hour, for like 40 minutes. He writes, great show! And he goes, what fun! He goes, what fun! P-H-U-N dot dot dot, let’s chat tomorrow. So I write back to him, what do I write back?
I said, why did you call in? I’m like, Vince Harvard, why did you call in? And he says, to reconnect your disconnect, play radio, kill the radio star that’s his answer why’d you call in to reconnect your disconnect play radio kill the radio
Play radio kill the radio star he mistyped it should be video kill the radio star even I can make mistakes meanwhile he’s making that… what did he say? He said to reconnect your disconnect. Play radio kill the radio star, but he means video, you know, video kill the radio star.
Unless he means play radio kill the radio star, maybe he actually means that. Yeah. Anyways, that’s why I’m… Radio kill the Bob star. yeah anyways that’s why i’m not radio cube it looks down it yes that is the thing yeah i may sound incompetent
But i’d like to see you fuckers get out here runner show she had a good people and deal with the non-physical which is a parking paradox i’ll let you know what it’s going to do next i like it could you keep cool during that this is super engineering that we’re witnessing here.
And I can’t go wrong. I play one song after another and it’s always perfect. No matter what I play, it works. So, let’s go back to Zappa. This is beautiful. It’s a collection of opposites.
Our music exists because we jam things that don’t belong together in other words we attempt to do the impossible and demonstrate that it can be done you know that’s fucking I don’t you mission of your DJ your DJ is jamming things that don’t belong together that’s how I
Do it I’m such such the proper heir. McLuhan, no, Donfield said I was the one to carry on McLuhan’s work. Well now we can say Bob’s the one to carry on Zappa’s work. I’m fucking doing it. Under these new global concentration camp conditions.
And did you see? Janet like a great the pocket interest rates yes all that i was saying this is this is well i love it but we don’t know what i like depends on which i had kind of but but i am said
Man bob this they’ve been waiting like years for the nine years for this everything finally did it and we love her chaos is coming apparently. You have to deal with a bit of that, right Bert? I mean you guys, your boss, talk about this stuff, this kind of stuff. Yes, yes.
Okay, what were you running, what were you yelling Roxy? You say the chaos is going to start, the wind is going to start blowing, but we know from where, which side the wind is blowing. We already did that. We’ve been there, done that. We did that in 2011. This is the…
That’s what Dian said on the third way to heaven. Yes, you’re right. But that was October 2009. that’s six years ago yes but it was for this moment all right okay you’re too smart for me all right
Let’s see in other words we attempt to do this is ionic we say look you don’t have to you don’t have to eat, sleep, you’re not going to die, all sounds impossible. In other words, we attempt to do the impossible and demonstrate that it can be done.
Isn’t that awesome? I don’t think, that’s a unique art manifesto. I don’t think anybody said that, said it like that before. And he says, one aspect of what we do, most people have ignored until now. That means I guess until Frank Cosky showed up.
They take for granted the fact that we go from one speed in one time signature to another speed in another time signature in a split second, without any hang-ups, without any planning in advance. Well, I think they do plan. He has hand signals.
He has hand signals, but I don’t know if that’s including that. He says, we change tempos and change songs with no forewarning most of the time. Like maybe I’ll only tell them we’re going into three songs out of a set. He says, that’s what all that jumping around is about.
If I jump and hit the floor, that’s the first beat of the next bar, and they have to figure out what the song is by two notes. Wow. Wow. He gives them a list of three songs. Like maybe I’ll only tell them we’re going into three songs
Out of a set, so a set might be 10 songs. That’s what all that jumping around is about. Is he talking about himself jumping around? I think he used to jump around, yes. I used to see him jumping around. So let’s assume he’s talking about himself. If I jump and hit the floor,
That’s the first beat of the next bar. And they have to figure out what the song is by two notes. We train to put the thing together that way. And of course we have other signals. Oh, okay, he admits there’s some signals. And of course we have other signals
Which indicate certain sound events are supposed to take place like that rumble and smash and speed up and noise. There’s a titrate, rumble, smash, speed up and noise. What an awesome statement. So how the hell does he do it? They have to have ESP. He’s talking about having ESP. The rehearsals. What?
The intense rehearsals trains him to react to his hand signals. But he’s saying, he’s not, at first he’s not telling them that he’s got hand signals without any planning in advance no no he’s planned he’s learned hand signals so what’s he saying
He has to be a contradictory phenomenon just because he’s working on ESP and you read I think more than human that story is a long time ago for me uh… I don’t even know if I read it I know carolyn did
But the she told me about it but they might have had ESP, those people. So he was acting out the ESP, the little people. They will do very complex things, like for example, the percussionist will be in one tempo and then the singer or the guy playing the keyboard
Will be in another completely different tempo. To do that is like very hard. To concentrate and keep that tempo without following the others. Yeah, that’s what’s neat about that. Neat footage that you found. It’s December 1970 and Frank is doing fast hand movements
Pointing at the band and Carol and several several people look at him and go look everybody is just staring, all of the musicians are just staring at frank, they’re just staring trying to keep up, you know what I mean?
Staring at his hands, I’d never seen that footage before and it’s so close, it shows you exactly what it was like to be in the band and staring and paying, you had to pay attention and like they’re not trying like they’re not standing there jumping around being cool,
They’re all tense, tense body language while trying to stay afloat. So there are moments where they have to be quiet, but they have to do something. They have to move, they have to… Yeah, no dead air allowed. That’s right. Wow, so he does that spew on Kofsky.
Now, Kofsky, he can’t be prepared for that. So Kofsky says… See, he had a weak response. He goes, one thing I’ve noticed about the Mothers is that they’re very definitely an improvisational band. No, they’re well disciplined as well as improvisational. Then he says, they play solos, and they seem very heavily jazz influenced,
Especially your saxophonist, Bunk Gardner. So you see how it’s a weak response? He can’t really hear what Frank is saying. He’s not asking. He’s like saying, wait a minute. You say you don’t do any planning, but then they learn these hand signals.
That’s what he should ask them. But he just makes a general thing you guys seem to be jazz influenced you seem to be improvisational well they’re not improvisational that’s included but it includes heavy responding to a programmed environment by Frank if anybody’s improvising
It’s Frank’s improvising what he’s going to do right within the discipline yeah it goes back to the rehearsals the world train machine the band he says he has this thing for South events like rumble smash it up and noise yeah these moments where where they could be free and do whatever they could
Or the highest note they could produce or the lowest or these waves, they have to make these effects. They have to be creative and they have the freedom to make a proposition. But it was only in that space where he allowed this participation, this conversation but
Only in that space, only in that planned part of the program you mean? Yes, they could only improvise what he told them to. They would play the song every time different. There was never a perfect repetition of something. They would change every day. Now, Zapit called himself a journalist.
And this is… he is showing how the White House ran reality. How the CIA… they had to, you know, 24-7, they’re on the spot. Information coming in all over the world. They had to act like this. He’s showing how management on the deepest levels was operating.
Like he said, this is the way society is. Music reflects society. He was showing tetrad management bordering on pentad management which is the android mean taking over and she is great commentary i’d identify anybody’s written on that but to be not impressed and if you’re not impressed because you’re stupid
You know what we’re talking about the fact that we’re we’re talking about frank and i want to read revelatory way we’re revealing something here you have to have been in the secret council tent like i was to understand what frank was showing
And he may not have totally understood forgot completely articulated like mcclughan but he instinctively acted it out he knew that’s how you would make music to reflect that the program global theater he he heavily programming them as well as uh… allowing so-called spontaneous things happen and then then every now and then total
Insane anarchy happen because that’s what it’s like in the secret out of ten that’s what power you want power that was like you know when you’re at the rear it would go instead his writings were for people on the spot that you have that quote on the spot that that people in the
In their programming intelligence agencies and you and you see this in a lot of t.v. shows now they show this i don’t know how long they’ve been doing it but the last few years in a lot of TV shows now. They show this.
I don’t know how long they’ve been doing it, but the last few years there’s a lot of accurate them. As much as you could show chemical bodies running a show, they can’t show the robots running the show or the non-existent iON running the show. They can’t show that.
They did try to show it a bit in fringe, but it’s pretty hard to really express what’s going on here at headquarters, right? This is, so, so, so Frank says, Frank Costi says, you guys seem to be heavily jazz influenced,
Frank says, it’s amazing to note that we had to force Bunk Gardner to play in that Coltrane vein. When we first had him in the band, he was playing straight out of 1955, Howard Ramsey’s Light Love All Stars. So Bunk, this very talented saxophonist,
Was a mainstream kind of performer. He was not into the… He didn’t know about the free-range stuff, free-range meat that Frank was creating. They had to force him to play in the Coltrane-esque vein. So Kofsky is surprised. He goes, oh, really?
Well, now it sounds to me like vintage 1962 John Coltrane, especially Bunk’s work on the soprano. And also I hear some of the new music on the tenor and alto. You listen to that then, you listen to that then I take it, besides Cecil Taylor, besides Cecil Taylor you listen to Coltrane too?”
And Zappas says, well I don’t own any Coltrane, except that he’s one artist on the anthology album that Tom Wilson produced in 1950. Tom Wilson is a guy who produced Frank and Dylan and Sun Ra and Cecil Taylor. I posted, did you see what I posted? Tom Wilson on the phone while
Frank’s standing in the studio while Tom Wilson is panicking that the mothers aren’t what he thought they were? Did you see that photo on my Facebook page? I’ve never seen that photo. What a great photo. Yeah, it’s a page dedicated to Tom Wilson. Somebody
Says this guy should be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. He should be recognized. I agree with him. He died early at 47 or so. But he produced what a wide range of people. Dylan, Zappa, Cecil Taylor, Sun Ra, and everybody else in between, and Coltrane.
So Zappa says, I don’t own any Coltrane except that he’s, Coltrane is one artist on the Anthology album that Tom Wilson produced in 1950? That sounds, how could he, well yeah, he’d be very young. Wait a minute, can’t be 1950 because I think he was born in the 30s.
We’re just going to check that for a minute. This is the only thing people will be listening to in 50 years. The old cloud has been destroyed and our cloud is the only one around, so we better get our facts ready, right? Do you agree? Right. Yes? Right. Yes. Right.
He was born in 1931. That means he would have produced when he was 19 years old. I doubt it. I think he means 1960. Actually, we probably could look up the album. He died in 1978 at the age of 47.
September 6, 1978, I was probably at a McLuhan talk to a bunch of psychologists on that day. I remember in September of 78. That’s when I followed McLuhan into the men’s washroom and he was pissing and he had used the phrase, tunnel vision. I was
Stalking him. So he had used the phrase left hemisphere specialist tunnel vision in the lecture. So he’s pissing in these men’s piss urinals and I yell out tunnel vision. He goes funnel vision. Funnel is a more accurate term for the urinal. So I remember him.
Bert, I have an image of McLuhan Sanders staring at the wall, pissing. It was probably the day, it probably killed Tom Wilson. It was so avant-garde what I did, he died on that day, September 6, 1978. Let’s see, does it list the anthology in his discography? His first album is 1956.
Sun Ra, I mean, that’s pretty cool to hang out with Sun Ra in the 50s. Uh-huh. So then, where’s the anthology? No anthology listed. So it had to be 1960, I would say, right? Yes, we all agree. I’m going to get something to drink, just a second.
Yes, go ahead. Maybe I’ll go get something to drink. You whistle, Bert. Whistle while I go drink. Or sing, or start talking. Interpret us. Okay. Interpret us. or sing or or start talking interpret us okay interpret us you’re laying out Frank on a different level
I heard something in Frank in an interview where he was talking about music videos and records and like you said he’s not refined maybe as McLuhanlellan how McLuhan technically analyze what was going to be honest but frank definitely knew it and i saw a uh… interview where frank talked about videos versus uh…
Music and that the video was just an ad a ripoff for the artists because they had to put the bill to pay the videos but the video was just an ad for an album and it really didn’t… the video saturated the market, meaning that the people were just ready for the next video
And they really didn’t pay attention to the music where Frank compared the video to a record where a record you can listen to a hundred times because it meant something to you in your heart. So what we’re seeing with analyzing Frank is that yes, he may not be able to elaborate
It as eloquently as McClum, but of course McClum used it more like poetically to describe what’s going on, but Frank was actually feeling it and doing it and describing it in his own unique way. Yeah, Marshall would observe.
He might get into a studio and observe things, but he wasn’t on the road making music with the modern audience and dealing with PR and advertising. Frank figured it out by being forced to act like that, to deal with these media.
A new video comes out, he’s got to act like that to deal with these media new video comes out he’s got to make his albums with that in mind until he he had a very sophisticated we could call it the efficient causality McLuhan had the formal causality down
About the effects on the audience and all kinds of metaphysical and cross-cultural ways but zappa was in the making the efficient material and efficient causality. And so he would figure things out because he was always clear-eyed about what he was learning. Yeah. And about what was really going on.
Yeah, video was just wallpaper. Or advertising, you know, it’s not music. Yes. or advertising, you know, it’s not music. Yes, it’s just an amazing parallel. I haven’t read and listened to McLuhan and then now to listen to Frank and the interviews. It’s really interesting to see the parallels.
I mean, they were both perceiving and actually actively engaged in that environment, that the Andrew Leem environment, but they had, in result, different perspectives. like that american you know patriotic background but they are still on point of analog concierge constitution from lillis but he was but he was actually on what was
Manipulating i i i saw another interview was interesting that uh… he mentioned that you know the scientists said a long time ago that hydrogen is the largest element in the universe, but what he sees is stupidity, so why not describe stupidity? Right, right.
Right. Now, it was always fun to compare McLuhan to Zappa. I was involved with both of them. uh… i would come up i would uh… frank at the same purposes McLuhan enhancing awareness not getting trapped in existence and yet still having a good fun time anyways and enjoying it
He always was showing the political okay so when he said he’s constitutional fundamentalist he acted it looked like he was putting on the pagan sensibilities, like the church fathers, the patriarch guys, St. Paul and them, they go into the local village, learn their pagan tribal mythology, and then take
That knowledge, that jargon, and adapt it to Christ’s message. So they would put on the local knowledge. They were anthropologists. And Frank had said he was an anthropologist. He goes in, he gets on TV, he knows that he’s saying wild things, but he can bring the opposite
Effect in by looking with straight hair, talking like he understands civic rules or civic bureaucracies and politics and the law. Like he told those kids, you know, watch out, this will, that will happen to you, don’t go too wild. It was always practical.
And he knew that would create confusion because people were always trying to do a black and white on people, do this or that. So he knew to be practical, to say that he was a constitution fundamentalist as part of his art statement of mixing opposites because he’s a constituent
That video we were looking at i don’t think roxie was here are you back roxie? guess he’s not back yet that video of him talking about the history of America that we saw was done for this sort
Of right wing or libertarian group, he’s talking with a put on voice all the way through it. Yeah, the vote, the vote now, vote now there last week, that’s the vote, the voting. It was almost ridiculously corny the way he was talking but he was almost he was trying to put opposites
I mean this statement is really important the collection of opposites he was not he’d say he was a constitutional fundamentalist but he knew it was irrelevant because then he would say media is all there is so he was putting on on many levels
Like saying okay this is this audience I’m going to target this time so he put on an image for them emphasize certain contradictory things about what people would have thought because they look at this constitutional fundamentalist and then they go online
And look at this maniac guitar guy throwing toilet paper at the audience you know toilet paper rolls running around like a wild beast uh… you know he’s not staying stuck in one posture he’s quadraphenic really is yes he’s all over the scale all over the scale to get people to think
Or just to strike uh… a chord within the audience or even when he was in interviews i saw some interviews where he was um… talking about the labeling of uh… music and he was on my and i missed a lot of it, i mean it’s good to go back and look at it
But he was really always counter because he always had those right wing you know that I forgot there was a journalist that was supporting the Kipper Gore and Frank yeah was very intelligent but they did put some like he would make a statement right in the middle just to break their
Flow and then Ted Copp it was one with Ted Copp and Ted Coppel had to go back to Frank the Frank made some very good, but he also knew how to break the flow of the other person when they started to reveal their fundamentalist
Position. So he was a master, a master at dealing with that environment. Master debater. Yes. No, I said master bait, that’s close to it, but i mean that’s a debate debate that’s a big but the state what they have been saying that he would be
He would even critique a pro to promote the record that would be difficult became a friend of that but you know later but yes back then she was right wing or whatever so uh… he would uh… you would say he would uh… the competition in the debate.
Yes, just a few little word interrupts and then they would have to turn it back to him who was making the point. Yeah, he had the force of the momentary analogical proportionality effect of truth or heavier, more pleasant, eloquent vibe. the you’re always subliminally entertaining, keeping a poetry going, of rhythm.
And if you can bear that and can be on your toes, you can keep being the controller, you have the edge in the debate. If you have the aesthetics of communication down, then you’re saying that’s a fine head.
Yes, I mean he’s a master debater. communication down. And you’re saying that’s what Frank had. Yes, I mean he’s a master debater. I mean you see it when he was in front of the Senate.
I mean all of the interviews are very fun to listen to and you see that he’s really on point and that he is, I could see the general where, the general aspect that his musicians said that Frank was, because he was always always poised i mean he’s always poised always poised
What he was going to talk about he’s sitting there and he’s not looking at the interviewer he’s sitting there with his head like a like iON when iON was the hologram he had this very attentive mount uh… rushmore look frank since there
All ears listening to the vibes of what the interviewer people are saying any dollar that we’ve got a guy who can’t exactly is totally on duty perceptual do we constantly system yes it’s more than being on point he he’s listening to it like it’s a fucking composition that he’s conducting.
And like iON, once there’s a slight, faulty, unknowing tone, he immediately comes in and corrects it or bounces off, you know? You’ll notice he responds immediately to a timbre or a pitch that doesn’t have any solidity behind it. Very fast. Yeah, I mean, it’s just, there were some interviews where he was,
I mean, he intimidated the interviewer because the interviewer asked the question, he said, what do you mean by that? Yeah, right. Yeah, that one, there was this good one, somebody, a smart guy, he was up and he went down to LA and
This radio show, I don’t know if I said it out, and the guy, oh no, a caller called in and started saying, sounded like an ayinet, a wacky jargon, you know what I mean? And he talked about Saul on the ride to Damascus and Frank immediately said, I don’t know what
You’re talking about. No, he didn’t say that. He said, I don’t know what those words mean. That’s what he said. I don’t know what, he didn’t know the Bible story. He didn’t know who Saul and Paul was. And the caller thought Frank would know this Bible story. He just,
I don’t know, I don’t know what those words mean well i can even sustain i don’t know what your words me i don’t know what those words me it was a a different way of responding that uh… cliche way uh… never hear people so i don’t know what those words me
These guys that you are that’s bullshit or uh… what i want to make sense of the fact that you know if all of the other combined and the fact that you said he like gave the guy a benefit of the doubt and said, I don’t know what your words mean.
So, you have to tell me what you’re referring to. He says it very fast. Hey, Roxy, are you back? Can we move forward? Yes! Okay very good.
You heard the good points Bert was making about Frank being on duty listening with his head staring into space or staring, he’s not staring into space he’s just attentive. Yeah. That’s why it’s fun to watch him. Yeah it is, it’s fun to watch him. Yeah, it is. It’s really fun.
Like, he’ll be there with Johnny Carson or any talk show and he’s just staring at the audience and he’s quickly answering things that are being said to him and he’s always evoking laughter in the audience and he doesn’t even care that the audience is looking and laughing.
He just stays on point. And I’m like that when I get interviewed. I’m really on point, man. That’s what I wanted to ask because I saw, there were some interviews that I saw him, I’m like, man, it’s like Bob trained this guy. I mean, he just knew. Yes,
I trained him. Yes. And I’m on point, I don’t agree exactly because that’s point of view, And I’m on point, I don’t agree exactly, because that’s point of view, but what you mean, that’s what I do with iON.
I’m fucking on iON’s case immediately if he fucks up or he doesn’t say, he drops his comma, misappropriates his but, or his and, or this or it. I was doing it today with the recorded one I did today. Anyways, but I’m always doing that.
But the thing is when I was with Frank, I tend to listen. If I’m going to hang out with somebody, I will listen to them. I’ll shut up. I’ll enjoy to them. I’ll shut up. I’ll go. I’ll go. I’ll enjoy their minds
I’m not on point when I’m just researching being an anthropologist. You know what I mean? I might I’m dumb or Nice, I’m a nice guy. I laugh at the right time or something people like me
But then they get shocked as they get on when I’m doing a radio show and leading this thing and try not to lead it, but yet other people take over, then I become a little tighter, tight and tapered,
Not so fast and bold as I am, I don’t know what it is, but I could appear colder, less emotional. I might sound like I’m not listening. Yes, that’s what it is. Whereas I’m obviously I’m listening when you’re with me in person because I look attentive
More than you’re ready for. But Frank, when he’s on the show, he’s listening, very intently good listener, but he’s being proactive, he’s pushing it forward and he’s correcting people. It’s like he comes on to give the real news.
I remember him blowing when Star Wars happened. The big argument in 83, 84 is about do we really need this Star Wars structure? And Frank comes on, Johnny Carson, and Johnny Carson is treating him as a smart guy. OK, let’s find out what this smart guy says.
So he brings up the Star Wars. And Frank said, that’s a red herring, a misnomer, because the real developments are in biological warfare down on the ground. And these Star Wars things that are supposedly going to protect us from missiles or runaway comets do not handle, you know, people dropping poisons into reservoirs.
Biochemical warfare. And I remember Johnny Carson or whoever it was just went with their mouth jawed and they go, holy shit, Frank moved the debate to another level which was more real. They’re obviously developing biochemical weapons and that Star Wars was a distraction from that work, from that research.
You see, he was doing the Thing Fish. Yeah, Thing Fish. That’s right, Thing Fish is about that. The chemical research in the prisons while everybody’s worried about whether the Star Wars will work or not. But I’ll never forget, Johnny Carson couldn’t hide it. He was enlightened.
He said, holy shit, I don’t have to worry about this debate, that’s the point. It’s a big distraction from the real war, the biochemical war. Bacteriological warfare. And so, if you watch Frank’s interviews, you’ll see that. Or you’ll see people get embarrassed and lash out.
And not even look embarrassed, just lash out at them. Okay, so let’s move on here. I saw a quote in which Tapa said, beware of the fish people, they are the true enemy. Fish people? Yeah. Now we’ve got to get a date of that. He might have been mad at BFART.
That might have been a few years later when he had occasionally Beefheart would argue against each other or something, put each other down. So we’ve got to get a date on that quote. Because you know Beefheart’s wearing the face mask on Trump mask replica in 1969. Around 1999. 1989.
It’s a speech. Yeah, it’s a speech to a pro-choice rally in LA. Oh yes, I’ve seen that. And he said we have to beware of the fish people. They are the true enemy. That’s pretty interesting. We’ll have to figure out what that is.
Does he mean the fish fresh out of the water? You know, that’s McLuhan’s term. Yeah, well, McLuhan said the fish doesn’t know anything about the water there. Very many fish people are there. The fish, they’re unaware people, the people who are totally unaware of the environment.
You may be explaining how to read the cover the people who are totally in the world environment. You may be explaining how to read the cover of Trope Mask Replica, Beefheart’s enigmatic picture. He has a trope mask. It’s called Trope Mask Replica.
He’s got a trope mask, a fish face on, over his face. So that means he’s putting on being a – offering a product. He’s being a pink, being a uh… uh… offering a product is being a pink being a fish person and it’s like frank and don had that code you know
Back in the fifties late fifties and frank brings it out it nineteen eighty-nine you know he he he he he he he he quotes nineteen fifty nine when he was in the civil rights for the blacks you know like there’s a
A timing there he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he I’ll say something that someone I knew 25 years ago would know what I’m referring to.
It would be a term of jargonistic improvisation that we would use. One of them is, I should tell you something Dr. Beter. That’s one of them. Because in the Beter interview in 1986, he came out of retirement and agreed to be interviewed by me.
And he’s talking about the gold deal, which then I got involved in. And he’s talking about the impossibility of the gold world. And he says, that should tell you something, Mr. Dobbs, or whatever he calls me. That should tell you something. And so we would use that after that.
You know, if I get interviewed on Charlie Rose, you’ll hear that. That should tell you something, Dr. Meader. That’s what Frank was doing. He was quoting something from 35 years ago. It’s compositional. These damn fish people. And you know that’s where Zappa instinctively was following along with McLuhan.
Because McLuhan’s there writing to the fish fresh out of the water. The fish that doesn’t know the new environment it’s in, didn’t even know the previous one. And then Frank picks up on the same word. That’s part of the collective ESP. Once you get into the leading edge, everybody in the leading edge
Is picking up the same patterns. Yes, and actually the story of Edgar Allan Poe about the mainstream is about the two brothers want to go fishing because near the mainstreamelstrom there’s a lot of fish and then they get caught in the in the whirlpool in the whirlpool, that’s the problem with Beefheart
He points, he makes that song Lost Whirlpool about 1958-59 in high school Frank’s got the recorder it was probably right when McLuhan was talking about the descent into the maelstrom, into Whirlpool, they were young, tuned in minds and they picked up on it. It’s a micro version of the zeitgeist.
Maybe Andy Warhol was doing something about it too, in an ad shop, you know, in 1959. He was talking about whirlpools. Anyways, what was it? The clue, I had said something. The dates were way off. Ridiculous. And not about prediction, but I was saying dates I was saying some
Dates they’re trying to figure out and he says Bob we don’t do any fucking time okay in the in the stairway to heaven he was making fun of you because you say it’s made in 1890. Oh yeah yeah yeah, 1890, that’s right. Instead of 1980. Right, right, right.
But I went on very forcefully, I was there trying to, it was like, how come Fringe, the TV show, has something that, how would it go, we, they had it in there before we did, our conversation. And then Ein goes, Bob, there’s no time, it’s way weirder than you imagine.
He was trying to tell me how weird the interplay of events are. Like, they haven’t landed on the moon yet, from some perspective. It’s still 1967. Oh yeah, he was saying that I’ve totally altered the last 50 years. Bob, when
The true history comes out, or your history, it will be nothing like what anybody, they’re not going to understand how it happened. This is the king in the in the in the bottle of the RNA. Right. You see his
Profile he’s looking in all directions. Right. He can go. His eyes are not normal. Yes, but you can see like a profile on both sides of his head, like as if he was a three-faced person. Wow. That’s like cubism. You can see in all directions.
So some artist did that and and he accepted it. Picasso, one of Picasso’s was Picasso-ing back in 1517. Yes but the point of view is a literate effect. And now that we are after that, it’s like we are starting to see this weird anomaly with time and then nonlinear.
Right. Now, did we finish that point? Yes. Let me carry on here. So, he says that Wilson produced an anthology in 1950, probably means 1960. Then he says the one that has Cecil Taylor and Sun Ra, it’s called Jazz in Transition. It’s a classic. Oh, we can actually Google that.
See, I hadn’t gone that far in reading. So let’s just see the date. That’s the thing about Google. God, the whole day I have everything. Almost as much as iON has. I had an interesting discussion with Zor, with Znor yesterday. Good discussion with Znor. Really? Oh, that’s good.
Are you going to publish it? Are you going to release it? Well, we’ve done two. We’ve done two and for some reason they, um, we overlap. It’s because we’re on Skype or something and the recording doesn’t work.
He’s recording it and it overlaps so it sounds like we’re interrupting each other. But I told him to send it. I’ll click on it later. We’ll fucking try it out. I haven’t listened to it. We’ll try it. We’ll see how bad it is. So jazz in
Transition is 1956. That’s part of the non-time synochrony. Right. Things overlapping. Yeah? The non-time synochrony. Right. Right. Things overlapping. Yeah. Okay, it says 1956. Yeah, it’s a good point. Maybe it’s a glitch that happens between us, between me and him. Jazz in transition. Yeah, 1956, so you know, he, he was
What did I say, 1934? 40? No, 1931. Do you remember what Tom Wilson was? 1931. so he’d be 24, 25, 1956. Yeah, he’s born in 1931. Well, you know, he’s 25 years old, in 1956, he could be 25. He’s hanging out with the avant-garde guys, Cecil Taylor and Sun Ra. Right, okay.
We’re back to this thing here. The one that has Cecil Taylor and Sun Ra, it’s called Jazz in Transition, it’s a classic. Kofsky says, I thought I detected in your music a strong Coltrane overtone.
I thought I detected in your music a strong Coltrane overtone, especially in the use of modes for extended improvisations. This is what puzzled me though. Why do you keep the steady emphasis on two and four, the steady backbeat? Zappa says, so the people can identify at least the rhythm. So there it is.
He’s got abstract rhythms, but he keeps the opposite heartbeat going, which the jazz guys wouldn’t do. And so he says, so the people can identify at least the rhythm. Kofsky, have you thought about playing dances at all? So he doesn’t know that Frank got going with the Vito dancers.
So he says, yes, they dance in a bizarre way. Los Angeles is the best place for us to play for dancing because the kids dance better there. They dance free. Here in town, meaning New York City, you get these pigs try to do the boogaloo and all that stuff to what we do
So they try to do the pigs to oh, that’s any calls. You know absolutely free is called pigs and ponies He is pigs redundant or something so so he’s calling not policeman pigs. He’s talking about
The crummy pink consumers here in town you get these pigs trying to do the boogaloo and all that stuff to what we do and their legs get all tangled up and they fall down. Alright so he’s making people dance ridiculously.
Then Kofsky says, ever since I got the John Coltrane live at the Village Vanguard again I’ve been dancing around the house to it and there’s not a fixed beat. and then Kofsky says, ever since I got to John Coltrane live at the Village Vanguard again,
I’ve been dancing around the house to it and there’s not a fixed beat. From that it occurred to me people have said that one of the reasons jazz is losing an audience is because you can’t dance to it. But that’s nonsense. You can dance to it.
But you can’t just do the boogaloo to it. You can dance to any piece of music you hear. In fact, you can dance even if you don’t hear music. To go back to that earlier question, I guess you see yourself as melding together all these things. Stafford says, yes.
We want to try and put together a theater of a bizarre sort. The spoken word is differentiated from the sung word in its rhythmic sense as in poetry. But even normal speech patterns are beautiful in themselves because the way people talk, it doesn’t make a shit what they’re saying.
In fact, most of the time what they’re saying is really ugly. But when you think about the rhythm or the way certain gas station attendants might speak, you know, what they’re saying is useless. But if you just listen to it as a piece of music, dot, dot, dot, I like to
Simulate things like that. There’s your simulacra simulator and you’ve talked about that Roxy about him taking speech so he’s actually going a bit further in speech rhythms and putting it into music more than anybody else was doing You guys still there? Yes. That’s a formal admission that Frank used speech. What?
That’s a formal admission that Frank used speech, and that is something that is noticeable in Civilization 3. How he mixed the different cliché speech patterns with the music and how he mixed them back together and isolated them.
Ok, but Civilization 3 is made in the early 90s. It’s a completion of Lumpy Gravy, which was made six months before, well, the same time as this interview or just before it. So Frank is discussing what he’s going to be known to have done on Lumpy Gravy, which
Had the speech fragments that you enjoyed in Civilization Phaze III. You did it 25 years earlier? Is it 25? 67, is it 25? 67, 20, 87, yeah 25 years earlier. So he’s describing, people, this album shouldn’t have come out around the time of this interview,
But it got delayed because he was on another label, the first label got pissed off. So it got held up, didn’t come out until 68, but he’s already basically made it when he’s doing this stuff. So it got held up in Komodo 68 but he’s already basically
Made it when he’s doing this interview. So Kofsky says, are you gone Roxy? You still, you there? No. Okay. No, I’m here. Yes, it’s very interesting how he will take things, yeah, as if there is no time. He just took again those recordings and continued.
Right. He says he has certain gas station attendants in the 70s, he has a song called, wind up working in a gas station. I mean, I guess gas station attendants is what you know when you’re in a car culture like L.A. They’re like your main social interaction.
Because you’re a car all the time. Your only social life is gas station attendance. So Kofsky says, you’re very conscious of that, aren’t you? For instance, I noticed when Jimmy called Black S sings, quote, TV dinner by the pool, I’m so glad I finished school, in brackets, in brown shoes, don’t make it.
He does it the way that guy would say it, says Kofsky. I’ve heard that guy talk, you know, that Jimmy Carlver is imitating some stereotype. I don’t know what his name is but that’s a typical southern migrant to Los Angeles at the
Age of seven now working in a defense plant. Southern guy goes to LA when he’s seven and maybe gets into high school and then he ends up working in a defense plant. There’s some Jungian symbol fixed in my brain that immediately clicked. Quote, I’ve heard that voice before.
So it’s a Jungian acoustic archetype. And Frank says, it’s all around you. It rules the world. It rules California. Kofsky says, I think it rules the world. Actually, it’s cannon fodder like the rest of us. Then he mentions Arthur Lee’s band, Love. Love, a group I’m not terribly
Impressed with as a whole, well that’s a stupid statement, they made a great album, which is still listed as one of the great albums. Love, a group I’m not terribly impressed with as a whole, also have a saxophonist and they’re trying to combine jazz improvisation with
Rock. Verzappa says, actually what they’re trying to do is to imitate our band, which is true, they were in the scene in 65 together. That would be Arthur Lee, Zappa, and Jim Morrison and the Byrds would be the four main guys that Vito would dance around, dance to.
So there might be a few other bands that didn’t get as big, but they’re all, Arthur Lee was a smart guy. He was a member of the Black Caucus, Bert. And he knew to pay attention to Frank. So Zappa says, okay, so Kofsky says, I heard Love
First. Is it just coincidental that their album was released first?” Zappa’s says, well, let, because that, maybe that means they’re on the same label. I’m not sure though. Zappa’s says, well, let me tell you of a few interesting coincidences that I’ve noticed
That lead, that lead me to suspect that we’re making more of an impact on the industry than the people in the industry would like to admit. I was mailed a picture of Paul McCartney many months ago from a girl in Europe with my mustache and my tie with my earphones conducting an orchestra.
So Paul McCartney dressed up like Zappa and this is about the time I was preparing an album for Capital that would be Lumpy Gravy, where I was conducting an orchestra. So does he give the time? He said, I was mailed a picture many months ago.
Yeah, because he was doing that conducting in February, 67. You have to realize Frank, you know, he just gets put in jail in March, April, 65, goes to LA in the summer of 65, gets a recording contract by December, 65. They get an album out in July 66, and
Then he’s recording with an orchestra a few months later, after being nowhere in Cucamonga. Obviously CIA controlled, he’s obviously a military operation organized by Fritz Kramer and Henry Kissinger. They wanted Frank out there to fuck people up.
And Frank would admit it and nobody would believe it. Just like me. I admitted what I was doing and nobody would believe me. So he’s saying, that’s a good statement. We’re making more of an impact on the industry than the people in the industry would like to admit.
Yeah, nobody admitted that McLuhan was influencing everybody as much as McLuhan was. The intelligence agencies wouldn’t admit it. They wouldn’t admit it, Frank. They don’t admit that we’re fucking in charge. The New Age, Alan Steinfeld, David Wilcox, whoever those other guys are, George Norrie,
They won’t admit that we’re the fucking, the cat’s meow, right? Of course you’d be right. How’s advertising? You see how I got in there real fast? Okay, he says, so he’s saying, Paul McCartney was imitating him. I’ve known that story for years, I forgot it was said here.
I haven’t read this fucking thing in 45 years, it’s awesome. I love doing this because I’m refreshing myself. or my own, whatever I did with Frank. Okay, so, so Kofsky says, what do you mean your earphones? Paul McCartney had, had with my earphones. He says, what do you mean your earphones?
I don’t understand. And Zaffer goes, I mean, that’s the way I, it looked like me in the studio. I really shit my pants when I saw it. I’ve never met them. It was a bizarre coincidence. And like him conducting the orchestra on the recent album Sergeant Pepper,
I don’t know how much that would amount to because the orchestra is used as an effect. And like him conducting the orchestra, so he’s saying they used the orchestra in Sergeant Pepper, but he didn’t know how much that would amount to something. I’m not sure what he means.
I don’t know how much that would amount to. He was imitating Sepper. What? He was imitating Sepper. McCartney. Yeah, did you say imitating? Yeah. Yeah. Now that’s where Frank was the hidden ground and the Beatles were going to become pretty avant-garde within their world, their pop world.
So they tuned in that bleeding edge, leading edge energies and they became like Frank. It’s like Bob Marshall sounding like me when he’s on the radio. They become you because you’ve got the frequency. They have to be, you actually get a monopoly on the hidden ground of the leading edge
And so if you walk in to get closer to where Frank or me is, you have to become like me. Right? We dominate that leading edge zone. So… It’s interesting that the connection of Paul McCartney and Frank because he already had a connection with Ringo with the later with the Later yeah.
John of Motels, yeah and then John Lennon and Yoko so that’s interesting. They all connect. He was the ground for them. Right. Let me give you a couple of points. I wonder if George… George would be the only one that I don’t know of. I never heard of him being with Frank,
But he was an emotional, meditating, wimpy guy. He was a softy. I don’t think he would go for Frank’s kind of music, but who knows? But George was always in a position of feeling bad because they wouldn’t put his songs out he was left out now iON
Says the real smart beetle was ringo starr while while um iON says and i don’t know if this is true he said while john and paul and george are arguing over song credits or this and that ringo was the only one around talking to the fucking record executives and signing the contracts.
He actually made some really stark signings. And he, and so he’s the only one who works with Frank. In Mexico… What? In Mexico there is a joke. They say Ringo was in the band because he tried the drugs before the Beatles. They say he was in the band because…
He was used to try the drugs before the real Beatles. No, I get that. What’s the first part? He was in the band… I’m not getting it. You’ve got to make it clear what are you saying he was used to
Try the drugs before the Beatles well who used them he would Ringo was like the best person oh okay it’s a joke in Mexico that Ringo’s a dumb guy because he got brain damaged from the drugs. No, no, no, he was used to them. He was used to the drugs.
Is she saying, Bert, that Ringo was smart and he was used to the drugs? No, she’s saying that the joke is that Ringo was like canary. Canary the test. The test for the drugs. Yeah he got brain damaged. Because he was used early. He was
The first canary. He died in the mine. Is that what you’re saying? It’s true? Yes, it’s true. It’s not a joke. Mexicans didn’t know. Just because Ringo looks like a Mexican, the Mexicans couldn’t see the facts. They had to make it into a joke because it was too humiliating.
Because he looks like a fucking Mexican dwarf. But look, here’s the thing. Ringo’s the coolest guy because he hangs out with Frank, does a movie with him, and he doesn’t have any battles with Frank. John Iacocca ripped off the recording, the Fillmore East June 71 recording. They cause a problem with Frank.
Paul McCartney, Frank sees this image, and then a little while later when we’re only for the money’s coming out, he calls up, or he gets a call from them. Let me see. There’s a phone call between him and Paul McC mccartney don’t know what it is you
Where mccartney calling up and asking if mccartney accepts that parity that frank’s were only for the money was doing a sergeant everest and mccartney i said you have to have talked my manager and that is it what what why do i talk to a man dot talking to you
You know that you may have is supposed to do what you say. And McCartney was a bit flustered and it wasn’t a good conversation and and so it came back that Frank wasn’t allowed to satirize it. He had to take the satirical part and make it the inside of the gatefold
And have a plainer outer side that no one could see. So Paul McCartney suppressed Frank’s creativity and um… after imitating him so that no one could see so Papa Carney suppressed Frank’s creativity and um after imitating him so and then John yeah so they all uh only Ringo made it with Frank
So what’s our point ok so I’m telling you about a couple of the incidents what what were we illustrating I had a couple of those facts oh yeah so John Lennon gets interviewed John Lennon in 1971 gets interviewed by Jan Wenner for the Rolling Stone official interview and it’s released as a book.
In the book, John Lennon’s talking about how terrible it was being a Beatle going around having to socialize with mayors of towns. He says, I would rather have been Frank Zappa. That’s what he says. He says, I would rather have been Frank. So he says that right in this interview
Put that in when you do the history of the sixties and seventies in these virtual history bullshit documentaries but that’s fucking quote up there status saying the be the deal cliches uh… but okay so he uh… so lennon said that uh… mccartney stop the album uh… what will we talking about?
Leading edge, getting into the leading edge. Paul McCartney was imitating Frank Zappa, a conductor. Right, with the headphones. And there might have been another stack. Maybe that’s enough for now. It might come up later. Okay, so I’m trying to say that they all interacted with Frank. Ringo did the best.
And there’s an article in Newsweek magazine in December 69, an interview, an article on Beefheart. And Beefheart’s celebrating him putting, he put down the Beatles. He made a song called, Beetlebone Smoking Stone. So there was, if you think of a British invasion, Edgar, according to LaRouche, Edgar Allan Poe was against Charles Dickens.
They represented British intelligence versus American intelligence. Then LaRouche was against turning taxes himself. So in the pop culture, it was Frank versus John Lennon. It was the Lancaster, California is where Beefheart and Frank were in high school for a couple of years.
There against the York, British house, you know York, remember the War of the Roses between the House of York and the House of Lancaster in British history? You know about 1480. You have Lancaster versus York, right right there pop culture between the beetles and and those guys
Remember he had to kick mcjagger out of his home to make mcjagger lit up a joint uh… right there in sap is out of the data had to be careful they didn’t get busted uh… and um… so it’s it’s your personal and cancer
And remember he yeah he goes to the duke of has a friend, Chesil Zappa, is interacting with the Duke of York. I never had a proof of my Lancaster York thing until
Now. I just realized it. Duke of York, right? So the York, it’s like Frank is doing Doo-Wop and embedded in these simple, ridiculous, cosmic, greed, spider lady lyrics is historical Finneganese. Historical reference points. The Duke of York versus the House of Lancaster. It’s all about the eye against the ear. The ear, yes.
And Frank doesn’t have to, it’s like language is doing its own poetic prose, satire, whatever, epic, regardless of what humans think they’re doing. The language is doing it. And that’s what, that’s what iON said, they could show us the fourth ring in Finney’s wake that Joyce wasn’t aware of. But the language was.
Okay so there was a couple of other interesting little facts, I haven’t got them right now. So Kofsky, so Frank says I don’t know how much that would amount to because the orchestra is used in the, oh so he’s saying McCartney is seen conducting an orchestra but he’s saying
It’s not that, it’s not a huge part of the Sgt. Pepper album, it’s just used as an effect. So Kofsky says, have you listened to that album carefully? Stappa says yes. Kofsky, do you think there’s any similarity between
Lovely Rita Metermaid and certain parts of Help on the Rock? So he has the Beatles song Metermaid and Help on Marock on Freak Out. Zappa says, the way they’re doing Huffa Puffa Huffa Puffa in the background? He asks Kofsky, is that what you’re referring to? And then he answers it.
Zappa answers, yes I do as a matter of fact. There’s also a coincidence in the use of Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band as a reprise in the way we do America Drinks and Goes Home on Absolutely Free. So there is slight influences going on there.
Tarkovsky says, was your album released at the time that they were preparing Sgt. Pepper? Zappa says, do you know when Absolutely Free was recorded? It was recorded before Thanksgiving last November, before we came to New York. So yes, Absolutely Free was recorded in 66. So let’s look up the dates for Absolutely Free.
I mean Sergeant Peppers. Still working on it. Searching, searching. Yeah, that’s the other one I did. Searching. The sound’s not too capable. Hey, look at this. Sergeant Pepper was recorded November 24, 1936. the the people we have a good the legend that there was a corded november
Twenty four sixty six to twenty first april sixty seven and he says that they recorded it before thanksgiving so that mean now they recorded sergeant ever over six month period so they definitely would have heard is that the stuff in that six month period. Yes.
Because Frank is looking like a conductor in February 67, that’s a couple of months before April 67 so that Lenin, Bacardi would have seen that picture in February, March I assume. So then Kofsky says, what kept it from being released earlier? Was it the censorship problem? Frank says yes.
Kofsky, do you think that the Beatles would have had access to that? Zappa says, I don’t know. Yes, it’s possible. Because rumors in the industry have a tendency to go very fast.
And on the Rolling Stones album called Between the Buttons, he doesn’t say the word called, and on the Rolling Stones album Between the Buttons, they’ve got that camp song, Something Happened to Me Yesterday. But we recorded ours before theirs, though theirs was released before ours. I don’t know which album, the
I don’t know which album the camp thing is on, Mumpy Graveyard, Wealth for the Money. We’re absolutely free, I don’t know. I don’t know that part. Kofsky says, just from the grapevine, I know that there are several English groups like
The Yardbirds and Eric Burdens that seem to be intrigued by what you’re doing. Yes, I mean, Gomelsky introduced the arborist is that the sixty six or so maybe even sixty five on their first tour he he discovered frank and introduced a band to that you know eric burden those guys
The repair i mean uh… eric clappen but eric clappen may not have been in the yard bridge when they tore down i’m not sure he he dropped out so it says so he came at all and level, Kofsky knows
That the Airbirds and Eric Burden are intrigued by that, but Eric Burden goes and hangs out with Frank. Can you think of any other English groups or American groups for that matter that have made the mother’s influence explicit? Zappa’s says, no, but let me tell you how far
It’s gone with the animals. That’s Eric Burden. First of all, it’s a common knowledge in the industry that the way it was explained to me, and this is not my opinion of what they’ve done until now, it was explained to me that they were the typical non-creative
Rock and roll group who have made a success performing material that was not necessarily original and which was not written by any member of the group. Kofsky then said, they’ve said that. Eric Burden has said that they’ve had great problems writing their own material. Zappa then says, okay, so I had an experience
Arranging some stuff for them. And I found not only were they not particularly original, but were one, hung up in that R&B bag, which is deadening when you get little white boys trying to be little black boys screaming the blues and being funky and all. That’s shitty.
Kofsky says, that’s Frank as a purist from the 50s you know. Kofsky the best thing about the Rolling Stones was that they didn’t do that very long the little white boys recording trying to be little black boys. Zappa says yeah but when they did it it was funky.
So he’s putting it there yeah remember they made they satirized beetle bones and smoking stone so they put down the stones I guess. Remember he he knew nothing about Keith Richards in that guitar
Quote um best thing about the Rolling Stones is they didn’t do that very long. Yeah, but when they did do it, when they did it, it was funky. It wasn’t necessarily colored sounding blues, but it was really funky. Kofsky says, yes, British working class funk. Zappa says,
And it was valid for that, except when they tried to do too much Chuck Berry. Now, after Eric Burden went to a party at my place i don’t know what happened in his head i believe you that he was a little bit psychedelically jacked up that evening
Or the two nights he spent over my place a laughing that he had a good jacked up psychedelically it might have been something because now there’s this album that they recorded about a month or two ago with Tom Wilson in Los Angeles. Their new group is Psychedelic.
One of their songs is seven minutes long. It’s a poem about the Black Plague and it’s accompanied by tape-recorded sounds of a monastery. They’ve got another song about San Francisco policemen. Wilson, Tom Wilson said they went into the studio and played Suzy Cream Cheese note for note.
I mean the one on the Fre Code album, played Return of the Son of Moshamagnet. They’re playing fucking Frank stuff in the studio, note for note. That’s why they’re going to call it the Zappa era when all the facts come out. He was the
Hidden ground for everything. So if that’s the kind of stuff they’re, what? That’s the kind of stuff they’re… what? That’s what they were listening to. Right. Because they knew that was the hidden ground. That was what was attracting their minds. So they had an edge of creativity that no one could foresee.
So if that’s the kind of stuff they’re practicing, if they use that album as point zero, meaning Freak Out, as point zero to start from, that’s Dynamite Man. If every group in the industry would do that, and I would love to see them do it, the whole complexion of the music would change
In a hurry, and it would be very gratifying to hear that weirdness on the radio coming from people other than us. He’s actually supporting, he wants them to rip him off. Because he’s trying to have a musical revolution maybe that’s the real marking of the bob era because it’s the frequency time
The freak out yes the frequency frequency and that period sixty-six is when carol and i get together i think we caused that we were the hidden ground beneath the hidden ground beneath the hidden ground on top of the ground uh… carrying our fingernails indifferently shit
But yet that that was a big year for me carol sixty six frank says the lady would say he was frozen in 1966. He’s still stuck there Well, that’s because I kept come around Re-hypnotizing him to stay in 66
If you’re going to be a rye you have to do it before January 6 7 when rye returned to plain of essence You know when doobie died well doobobie died, that was it. January 22nd, 967. So if you wanted to be creative, you had to go back a few months and stay there.
Or else you’d get wiped out by the bliss of no more of Rye. Now that’s never been said in Zappa commentary before. Even Stockhausen would freak out if he heard this. That’s how it all began. Yes. The whole world was celebrating Bob and Carolyn getting together.
When Bob and Carolyn got together, everybody, Leonardo da Vinci, everybody, you know how and sometimes said we are we are rejoicing remember I would say that occasionally we are rejoicing well a fucking it was so rejoicel they had a be in
Was it in January 67 they had yeah they had a be in in January 67 the whole fucking world turned into love maniacs all through 67 nobody knows where it came from and where it disappeared to well you’re listening to The Hidden Ground right here. That’s the summer of love.
Yes, the summer of Bob and Connie love. It’s like Tristram and Shandy, Tristram and uh, Issa? What the fuck is it? Tristram and Isolde. The famous medieval story that Phineas Wig starts off with. The great love story. We are the greatest love story. Sold! What? What did you say? Tristan und Isolde.
Tristan und Isolde. You’re muffling. Clean out your… wipe the spittle out of your microphone. Empty your saxophone so what do you say yeah I should have said Bob
Can you hear me yes we can hear you yeah you’re coming through loudly clearly loud and clearly from the other world. But like, like, okay, what’d you say? Tristan und Isolde. Yes. That’s the German. Tristan und Isolde. Right. T and I. Can we get Bob and Connie out of T and I?
Tristan and ISIL, what the… TUI, Ralph Eloy II, well TUI, Tristan and ISIL, TUI, that’s one of the four forces, Rai Eloy II Lofty, two! Yes, we were archetypal forces he was right he would i think affecting to kristin i told and lofty well i took another thirty years
For the blew up the nine one one and that was laughing ever this sodie guy the terrorist named lofty that would delay but the uh… was lofty. Remember this Saudi guy, the terrorist named Lofty? That was a delay. But the, um,
I would say that, he says to me, Bob, we’re not physical. How come you can hear us? If we’re not physical, how come you can hear us? And, uh, you’re saying the same thing. If you’re in a parallel world, how come we can hear you Roxy?
And we do hear you okay, let’s let’s carry on this is fantastic interview man is New discoveries, okay, where are we so Frank is saying?
Man if they if every group in the industry would imitate us and i would love to see them do it the whole complexion of the music would change in a hurry it would be very gratifying to hear that weirdness on the radio coming from people other than us
And Kofsky said do you have any indication that your music is catching on in industry Zappa’s says well i noticed that every time we work with another act, we usually accompany somebody who’s a star, a star in quotes. Whenever the star group is on and
We’ve played together on a couple of sets, the next time we hear them, they’re playing something that sounds like something we do. I realized that from the first time we worked with the Blues Project, that’s Paul Butterfield, till the next time we saw them. They were doing songs with time changes in them.
But they were stopping in between, so they counted off and started again. They still hadn’t gotten down to the point where they could actually bring themselves to actually jump in the air and land on the first beat of the first bar. And other groups, we just noticed
That experimental things are creeping into their bag. And although the people who are trying these things believe what they’re doing is original and all that, I can’t help but feel that we had something to do with motivating them to
Try something more unusual than they might have if they hadn’t heard the Freak Out album or heard that somebody was doing something weird. When you’re writing a song, as most of the groups do, it’s a cooperative effort. They all get together.
You have certain alternatives that you can do in putting that song together. At a certain point in the arranging of the tune, you can decide whether or not the bridge is going to be a simple bridge or if it’s going to be a bit weird.
Most of the time now, the kids are choosing something that might be unique. A time signature change, a weird chord here and there, a suspension, you know. It’s happening. Their idea of what music is, is broadening.
It’s happening. Their idea of what music is, is broadening. It’s happening. Their idea of what music is, is broadening. Do you hear this in the San Francisco groups too? David says, San Francisco still seems to be either hung up on modality, plastic yard bird in imitations or R&B.
I got soul baby even though I’m Jewish. That’s what he says. I got soul baby even though I’m Jewish. Kofsky says, in what category would you fit the Jefferson Airplane? Well, they started out as being modal city. What’s that mean, doing modes? Is that a musical term, modal? Modal, okay.
They started out as being modal city. I like this stuff on the first album more than the second. As a matter of fact, they asked me to produce their third album. I couldn’t do it because I couldn’t leave the Garrick Theater in New York just to go
Out there and do it, which means a loss of a lot of money. This is not a valid menu option. Yeah, we know that. Kofsky, have you produced any albums yet? Zappa goes, for other people?
I’ve produced singles for other people, and I’m getting ready to produce an album of a group called the Otto Salvage, which is very promising. Kofsky, I never heard of that album. I don’t think it went far. Kofsky, have there been any singles released by the Mothers? Zappa says, three. What happened to them?
Well, how could I be such a fool which was released as our first single sold 4,000 in Detroit? Imagine us on the radio selling records in Detroit. Kofsky, what was the B side? The B side was it can’t
Happen here. And Frank starts laughing. I mean, I couldn’t go too straight. So he made his single have a weird song on it. Then came the Watts Riot song, Trouble Coming Every Day, in a scaled down version with Who Are The Brain Police on the other side.
If the DJ put that thing on to test, if they ever got around to checking it over, forget it. So he knew his singles wouldn’t get played. How well did they sell? Did it do anything?
Zappa says, a record doesn’t sell unless it gets on the radio. Then the third single was quote there’s a big dilemma about my big leg Emma with why don’t you do me right on the other side. That hasn’t been put out has it? Yes it has I’ll give you a copy of it.
No I meant on an album. No fortunately and I hope it never is. He did put there’s a big dilemma about Big Leg Emma 10 years later on an album. No, fortunately, and I hope it never is, because it was a straight commercial attempt
To just go in with a piece of absolute shit for a market that’s based on shit. It was an experiment. There’s this pile of shit. There it is. So, a straight commercial attempt. I guess he was trying to be commercial, but he did it.
You know, big leg Emma, and why don’t you do me right, they’re just straightforward nonsense blues or something. He’s not proud of them, but he says, we were just trying to get some money, I guess, just create some shit for a market that is based on shit. And then Kofsky
Says how did it work and Zappa says not too well. He couldn’t compromise, he could have made a nice pleasant song, you know what I mean, with no nothing satirated, but he couldn’t bring himself to do it. Okay, Kofsky says because it didn’t do too well, he goes, that’s encouraging
In a way. It shows that you can’t merchandise straight shit. It shows that you can’t merchandise straight shit. Zappa’s says, well, we could. I have another way. There’s different categories of straight shit. That was straight shit jug band, okay? The other side was straight shit R&B with a little humor thrown in.
Maybe people were offended by the fact that I did a takeoff on Wild Thing. Or sit down, I think I love you, or something like that. Now the next single that we’re going to put out is a beautiful song and it’s done with a beautiful arrangement.
It’s got some lyrics that will go directly to the consciousness level of a 13 year old girl. That’s Debbie. We heard about Debbie. It’s a song about a 13 year old girl, that’s Debbie, you’ve heard about Debbie.
It’s a song about a 13 year old girl who has parents that don’t understand her, who gets her rocks off by listening to her favorite singers on the radio and digging their picture on the wall and living in that putrid world that they invent for themselves locked away
In their bedrooms. It’s a song that takes the attitude, quote, we know where you’re at and if you need any assistance just give us a buzz. Unquote. It’s not like we say come to us, but just by saying that we know what you’re doing in the bedroom,
Which is more than anybody else has said so far, at least we came out and said it. And I think it will be a winner. How long is it? It’s about two minutes. Well, that didn’t work as far as I know.
Okay, and then, he says, how long is this interview? Maybe we should stop. All right, well, it’s only a couple more pages, so maybe we will finish it. It’s about two minutes. The cost, he says, it seems inconceivable that five years, three years, maybe two years
Ago that you could put out two albums like the two you put out, that the record companies would be convinced that there was any market for that material. Do you agree with that assessment? And if you do, what do you think has caused the change? First of all, Zappa’s says,
The market that we reach always existed, but the manner in which we reached that market was carefully planned. And the way we were presented to the record company was carefully planned. We were still turned down by every major company which was best because we wound up with Tom Wilson. I think
That was a great advantage. He’s been responsible, having been producing a long time, for most major weirdnesses in music. He was the first man to record Cecil Taylor and he recorded Dylan and Simon and Garfunkel. He was the one that made Dylan go rock and roll. Dylan’s
Subterranean homesick blues was a monster record. I heard that thing and I was jumping all over the car. And then when I heard the one after that Blues was a monster record. I heard that thing and I was jumping all over the car.
And then when I heard the one after that, Like a Rolling Stone, I wanted to quit the music business because I felt, quote, if this wins and it does what it’s supposed to do, I don’t need to do anything else, unquote. But it didn’t do anything.
It sold, but nobody responded to it the way that they should have. They should have listened to that and said, hey, that record got on the radio. Now wait a minute, we’ve got a chance to say something. The radio is for us to use as a weapon.
So he was always trying to get people to loosen up and change the radio world. And they should have got that from Dylan’s Like a Rolling Stone. So he says, it didn’t happen right away and I was a little disappointed. I figured, well shit, maybe it needs a little reinforcing.
And that’s their well-planned, one of their levels of well-planned. So just as he, just as he, in the Rubin-Jetts scenario, Uncle Meat gets Rubin-Jetts to play 50 songs in 1969 to get people to go back to the 50s. Frank wanted people to go back to Like a Rolling Stone, 1965.
And pick up what didn’t happen in 65 with Homesick Blues and Like a Rolling Stone. Okay, so Frank says maybe we could give a little reinforcing. Kofsky says, obviously it does, because people respond to those things, and yet they can’t immediately go beyond just responding emotionally and internally.
They can’t let go and do something at once. And then Zappa says, you’ve got to make them involve themselves. Kofsky says, exactly. There was a very poignant thing I read. I believe it was Mary McCarthy writing about Vietnam in the New York Review, seeing the soldiers there.
They’re all 19 years old, singing, blowing in the wind and where have all the flowers gone? And then going out and killing the gooks, kill for peace. So obviously, just identifying with the message, while certainly a step forward, is not sufficient.
Zappa says, listen, we had threeines in full dress uniform on stage one night with us what did you do then that is it’s i’ll tell you the story uh… i’d i don’t go to that he gets the marines up there and there you’re yelling eat the apple fuck the corp
I don’t know if you guys know that story it’s a long thing let’s bypass it’s a famous story the marines get up there and act out quite violently and scared they they they chop up they knife up the dolls and everything because he said do what you
Do in vietnam and scared the audience so uh… and he goes so zappa he tells the whole story and then he goes full dress blues man they just burned a dozen flags Kofsky goes court-martial zi goes right court-martial city all right.
So then we took an intermission and they stuck around I said do you guys know? Like you guys know you’re doing stuff that could get you in trouble? And they go and he says I don’t care they say one somebody says one of them I don’t
Care man they can only get you once. And I said okay go back on. and they say what somebody said one of them i don’t care man they can only get you one that’s okay go back on
I told gail to get the doll this is the first time we ever used to dog we had this doll that somebody gave it was really shitty big plastic doll bring it down and i say quote hey ladies and gentlemen the guys are uh… going to sing everybody must get stoned
They go through all that shit and i said now we’re going to have basic training to sing, everybody must get stoned.” They go through all that shit and I says, now we’re going to have basic training. Ladies and gentlemen, this is a gook baby and the
Marines are going to mutilate it before your very eyes. Kill it. So Frank tossed it to them, they ripped the arms off, beat it up, stomped on it and just completely tore the doll apart. After they’re all done, the music got real quiet, the lights went down and I
Held it by the hair and showed the audience all the damaged parts of the doll’s body, pretending. There was one guy in the front row, a negro cat, just come back from Vietnam, he was crying, it was awful,
And I show there. Kofsky says, I guess you did. Zappa goes, yeah, you know, thank you, goodbye. It was an atrocity, it was the most, and Kofsky says, that sounds like Lenny Bruce at the London Palladium, you know, that thing he does with the entertainer, a leper on the Art Baker Show.
You ask for it, and arm. Zappa goes, oh no. Or, oh, I don’t know what that means. Oh no, he’s shocked by Lenny, or he’s saying no. Oh, oh yes, that’s the thing he does in Cheapness. No, beat back the bar. No. Remember? He’s complaining about the strings holding up the
Dummy monster. Beat it back. I think that’s what Frank’s doing there. Oh no, no. Kofsky says who says that on the Absolutely Free album? You say that, right? Zappa says, right. Then he does it. Oh no, oh no, unless it’s said some other way. I don’t know how it’s said.
Karski, you seem to be very entranced with that phrase, I’m absolutely free. Zappa says, maybe it’s the one where they go, oh no, no, no, I don’t know, they got me. Zappa, well that was a phase I was in. Also, so him going, oh no, was a phase.
Not a phrase, it was a phase. Also, I had an idea of the commercial value of any phrase repeated in that context. In other words, the catchphrase of that album, that’s the Suzy Cream Cheese of that album. So, Suzy Cream Cheese is the motif repeated in Freak Out. The oh no
Who whatever it is he’s on absolutely free as a repeat motif and he’s admitting he’s trying to he’s trying to make a brainwash people did you get that he’s trying to make it get it become a hook but I guess that’s what all the
Entertainment is trying to get a hook what What is it, and then Kofsky says, what is the meaning of that prune and vegetable symbolism? Or is it just nonsense? Zappa’s says, data dynamite. Now, in his autobiography, twelve years later, he says he didn’t know about data art. He
Didn’t know he was doing data until he was told. I wondered when he was told. Well, he was told in 67 at least because he’s using a term which he says he didn’t know before. So he must have learned it while doing it at Garrick Theater. So he goes, data dynamite.
You know, if you try and respond to that, like try and tune into that and respond to it like you would ordinary images, that would have the effect if you let that grab you, move you around the way it’s supposed to, it’d jerk you apart.
Try and tune into that and flow with it. He quotes the album, Moonbeam Through the Prune, and tune into that and flow. Then quote, the magic go-kart. So he’s saying you’ve got to add a dynamite.
If you try and respond to that, like try and tune into that and respond to it like you would ordinary images, that would have the effect if you let that grab you and move you around the way it’s supposed to, it’d jerk you apart.
So he’s making a joke about having people tune into the moon beam through the prune. Try and tune into that and flow with it. In Life Magazine in June 68, he comes up and interrupts the dancer and he also talks about everybody is trying to
Tune into their God and he is trying to interrupt the tuning. So there is Frank as any environment. Try and tune into that and flow with it. Moonbeam through the prune and tune into that and flow with the magic go-kart.
Minkowski says, I asked you this before and I don’t think I got a definite answer. Do you think you could have put this material out five or six years ago and have gotten the same response? Zappa says, I don’t think we could have five or six years ago,
But let me tell you something. I’ve got tapes of original versions of a lot of these songs, which were recorded five or six years ago when I had my studio. We have since refurbished and tried to bring them up to date in the current rhythmic formats and things like that.
Like there was a time when shuffles were popular, but they’re not exactly in vogue now. Popular rhythms change, which is an interesting study in itself. Figure of ground, popular rhythms change, which is an interesting study, that’s what McLuhan studied, the figure of ground of changes in rhythms and tried to explain it.
Is Rossi still on? Let’s check this. Okay. Popular rhythms change, which is an interesting study in itself. That’s like him listening in 200 mortality, Ringo Starr listening to the radio, listening to the pop music and then writing it down. But that’s actually what he does. He does take popular rhythms,
Studies it and plays it back as a subplot in his work. Popular rhythms change, which is an interesting study in itself. Also the use of parallel fifths is coming back and the use of flatted fifths in a blues guitar line,
Which was gone for years. All guitar heard on top 40 records, what is this, all guitar heard on top 40 records were very sterile white notes, bend a third and a bullshit chord, maybe hit a sixth in there once in a while. But now they’re getting back to that distorted nastiness that you
Hear on old blues records. Kofsky says, you do a lot of that on those short breaks. You do a lot of that on those short breaks.
Zappa, because my whole guitar playing background is not jazz. I can’t play jazz worth a shit and never would claim to. That’s why that jazz guy, Tommy Tedesco in the Wrecking Crew, he tells a story, one of the jazz giants getting together with Frank and I guess they were playing jazz.
He couldn’t believe how bad Frank was. Frank’s admitting that here. Because my whole guitar playing background is not jazz, I can’t play jazz with a shit and I never would claim to. What is your musical background? Self-taught, listen to records. What, you listen to everything? You seem to have an encyclopedic knowledge.
And Zappa’s says, and I remember what I hate. He remembers what he hates. And Kofsky says, how did you get into music at all? I was playing since I was 15. In rock bands? Yes, I started out playing drums and sang Gabriel California, the band called The Ramblers.
Kofsky, why didn’t you go directly into music? Why didn’t you go directly into music? Why did you go into advertising? Well, I was married for five years and I was an 8 to 5-er. I was more than an 8 to 5-er because during the time i was doing that i was
Also working what you might call it tiptoe through the tulips type bed wearing a white tuxedo coat which is still got black pads black patent leather shoes hair slick back choreography put choreography played three twist numbers at night and the rest of the stuff was all how we danced on that night
So that that if you had to be a crummy lounge band. So he was doing that at night while doing advertising. So then Kofsky says, you condensed that experience beautifully on America Drinks and Goes Home. That was just because a lot of the guys in
The group have gone through that shit. You did that. And Kofsky says, you did that. I cried when I heard that. Kofsky admits that he cried when he heard the satire of life in a lounge bed. Wow. Zappa’s says, did you get that… Uh, you cried.
Zappa’s says, did you get that guy swinging back and forth in front of the microphone like they do? Did you get that guy swinging back and forth in front of the microphone like they do. Did you get that guy swinging
Back and forth in front of the microphone like they do? Kofsky, oh yeah, got the cash register, the glasses, the drunken voices, the piano arpeggios, the shuffle rhythm on the drums, it’s all there. Which is one of the reasons why jazz musicians don’t want
To play whiskey clubs anymore. And the audience doesn’t understand it. You know, like, quote, we pay those niggers, Why don’t they don’t they want to go and be slaves anymore? So the jazz musicians are not taking any more black caucus. That’s happening because what I showed up in sixty six being killed. He
Freed the black caucus. And if the audience doesn’t understand it. Says Frank Kofsky, you know, like, quote, we pay those niggers. Why don’t they want to go and be slaves anymore? And Zappa says, yeah, quote, if you won’t play, shine my shoes, goddammit, unquote. Kofsky, precisely.
Zappa says, the one thing that I think is really good about our music is that the settings of the lyrics are so carefully designed. Supposing you had to listen to America Drinks and Goes Home for a million times.
It would drive you crazy for one thing, but eventually, if you’re the average stupid layman who hates music anyway, you might realize how perfect that setting is. Those words, man, those things, what’s going on? You banging stuff? No, I just need a ghost or two came into my head.
Okay. Alright. But eventually, if you’re the average stupid layman who hates music anyway, you might realize how perfect that setting is. Those words, man, those things are so carefully constructed that it breaks my heart when people don’t dig into them and see all the levels that I put into them.
Kofsky says, that ballad on America Drinks It Goes Home, I hear Tommy Dorsey playing Getting Sentimental or something like that every time it comes on. It’s kind of the prototype of all modern sentimental crap, Tin Pan Alley songs.
Stappa says, because it was written based on the same subconscious formula that all those pukers use, Ha ha, here’s his, his who are the brain police talk. You getting this? Subconscious formula that all those pukers use. You know, two five one chord progressions, modulating all the way around.
They modulate normally in a regular song in a circle of fifths, but this change is key, and modulates and it gets weird There is something happening in all those changes and the melody if you just were to play the melody as a straight thing It’s an interesting tune
But those stupid stupid words and in that setting with the cash register and all that we spent hours putting that together Herbie that’s Herbie Cohen manager of the mothers and vision was playing the cash register We rehearsed the crowd noises.
The talk track itself, which is underplayed in there, is funny because they’re saying things like, quote, I got a new Mustang. Laughter, Frank laughs at that. And like the girls are saying, quote, Sally, Sally, will you go with me to the bathroom, end quote. You know, that kind of stuff.
And Kofsky says, is that all in the libretto? Zappa says, you can’t hear it on the record. Kofsky says, I know you can’t, but it’s great. It’s hysterical. You hear all those drunks, man. You just want to go in there and kill them all. You hear
All those drunks, man. You just want to go in there. I mean, Frank Kofsky’s getting all, his Marxist self is getting all worked up by Frank. Frank’s leading him on. Um, what’s he mean he likes this stuff? I got a new Mustang, Sally will you go with me to the bathroom?
But he says you can’t hear it. So how can we appreciate it? Is it in the libretto? Well because, because he, he was creating this background cocktail party noise. He knew what people were saying.
Yeah, he got them to say it. He knows he meant it, but it doesn’t come through in the recording. You get drowned out with all the other stuff. All the drunks that Frank Kofsky wants to kill. So, zap out.
But that’s not all that’s happening. Technology is not up to reproducing that one song. There he is. That’s what iON said. That Zappa could make stuff that technology couldn’t reproduce. We can now hear what Frank was doing if they released it.
We got the equipment, the improvement to hear his multi-layered embedment. I guess that’s what he means, but that’s not but that’s not all that’s happening Technology’s not up to reproducing that one song I’ll tell you what’s in it
You’ve got the song itself and the tune which is a parody of all the changes You’ve got the lyrics which is a parody of all the lyrics You got the vocal you got the vocal performance of the lyrics which is a parody of that
You’ve got the improvised dialogue, which is a parody of that. You’ve got the improvised dialogue, which is a parody of everybody’s closing bullshit. It is a super-menippean. Kovsky, I know, that’s what’s so pathetic. Fafner says, you’ve got the sound of the setting of the glasses and the cash register, which
Is right in there. You’ve got the cloud mumble which is carefully programmed like choreographed. Then on top of that, which you can’t even hear, there’s a fight going on. I sort of heard a fight. We had the crowd separated in two rooms.
In the main studio we had ten people sitting around the microphone doing these lines on cue with the cash register over here and the glass on one microphone. So you can see Frank directing it with his hands. Hand signals. Then in a vocal booth off to the side. What?
This is very interesting because this is what Paulino Oliveros calls the quantum hearing. Right. And you can see how Frank is aware of all the noises happening at the same time in an environment wherever he is. He might be listening to all these details, all these levels, all these tracks.
And it’s very interesting how he reproduces this cocktail party or this piano bar thing. Right. And the complexity he goes into to recreate this drinking environment. Yeah, he’s got tremendous ears, which is what his son said.
Then in a vocal booth off to the side, we had Ray and Jimmy Carl Black and Roy Estrada going through this number. We had Bunk Gardner trying to pick up two girls, you know, quote, what’s a girl like you doing in a place like this, unquote. All that stuff. And then Jims
And Oki, Jimmy Car Blacks and Oki wanting to beat up a Mexican who is Ray. There’s the Mexican theme there. Yay! It’s a good country to be princess of. You made it into the Zapat landscape. And then Jim Zanocchi wanted to beat up a Mexican who was raped.
They start out as good buddies and they’re drinking beer together and find out the Indian, that’s Jimmy Carl Black, he was an Indian, accuses a Mexican of going out with his wife and they punch it out.
And meanwhile, you know you actually I think see that kind of fighting in the movie 200 Motels later. I think they have a riot in the bar with Jimmy Carl Black. And meanwhile the chicks, the chicks tell this other guy to fuck off because he’s coming on too strong, you know.
Quote, what kind of girls do you think we are? Unquote. And it’s all happening in there but you can’t listen to it all. You’ve got to have it on ten tracks so you can walk around the room and see where
It’s all coming from. That’s what he was later would do. Try it with you know quadro, whatever that stuff was called in the 70s, quadro, quadro, you know, quadro, whatever that stuff was called in the 70s, quadro, quadro, piano. That’s more like surround. Yes, surround. Panning and distributing the sound
With many different tracks and different speakers. Yes. So you have this impression of, yes, of a real environment. It’s not like the sound is coming only from two speakers. Speakers. You put them in different parts of the room. He’s making a hologram. Yeah, a good hologram.
Now remember when we read Hunchin Toot, he describes in detail the making of that quadraphonic thing. Well I think he said quadraphonic with four speakers. So he was trying to develop that and he was thinking about it in 67 and then he does it five years later in installations which didn’t happen.
He was trying to do it but it didn’t happen. He was trying to do it, but it didn’t happen. So there it is. It is very interesting because he’s not only thinking about the recording, but also on the reproduction, how it’s going to be heard and put into the space.
Right, and that’s McLuhan-esque. He’s makinguhan-esque. He’s making a tetrad. He’s making the hologramic, the environment as a surround. McLuhan talked a lot about that, that electric medias surround you. So, he says you’ve got to have it on
Ten tracks so you can walk around the room and see where it’s all coming from. Klosky, it must take hours to do that, not to say anything of recording costs. Stavis said, well, the cost of the second album was maybe a third of what Freakout was, $21,000. Klosky goes, $21,000?
Stavis says, that’s right. That’s a heck of an investment for an unknown group. See, I was so lucky that it was all predestined. The good Lord demanded a fucking antivirant and Frank was going to have him whether he liked
It or not. If there wasn’t a Frank, he’d have to invent him. Right? You get my drift? Yeah. No, he was meant to be. Right. I think Bert’s been out of action. Are you back Bert? Anything you want to say? You want to say anything? We’re coming to the final stretch here.
He did ten tracks. It was a ten track. Yes. Can you explain that? I just heard, I came in right when you were talking about he did 10 tracks and you can walk around the room and see where to source? Yes, like usually you record each instrument in a track like voice, percussion.
Maybe percussion can have more than one track, like different mics. Maybe for example the piano sometimes have also two. But for example guitars or bass have only one track. But he’s making this environment of the bar, the cocktail party.
And for that he used 10 different tracks of voices, the glasses, all the environmental noise that you hear in the bar. And he made 10 tracks just of that environmental noise. And he was planning to distribute this with 10 speakers so that it would create the impression of a real bar.
Wow. So is that the reference that he created music that was not meant to be heard until now? Because that’s unheard of back in the 60s. I mean, like he did, he set up with 10 speakers. But now we have that all the time. Is that correct, how they now record music, Roxana,
That they would have 10 tracks now at least? Yes, or more. Or more, okay. Much more. Wow, wow. Yes, and you have also like speakers that are like, like trees, for example, that you don’t have only the stereo system, but there are new types of speakers that have many small speakers
That you can direct to different directions. So you have this type of trees. And many composers use, for example, Stockhausen used that a lot, and Franz Schaben. And you can have different speakers in the room, and according to which speaker you approach,
It’s how you sort of do the mixing as you move in the room. It’s how you sort of do the mixing as you move in the room.
Like you may like to hear more this speaker or this instrument and you go to that speaker or then you want to listen to another noise and you move in the room. And it’s like you are swimming in the sound. and it’s like you are swimming in the sound.
Is that the soundboard, is that their connection with big… like in concerts they have that soundboard, is that what you’re saying that’s already programmed into like a CD? That different sound or are you talking about something different? Well you can have a recording and a mixer
And for example there is this French composer François Bell he will do the mixing live and that will be the way he will perform his music by mixing it live. And he will have maybe 80 channels, so I don’t know, it’s amazing mixes. Wow. And he will distribute different speakers in the room,
So you could have the effects of the panning or things coming from behind or from the front or from the sides. So it’s like a virtual frequency dance that is surrounding you. And Safa was already thinking about that, how to do that.
Yeah, I sense that when I hear his music, I was telling Bob last week, and I wanted to ask you that, does he mix, that answers my question, because it seems like when you listen to Zappa’s music,
There’s a lot more, I don’t want to use the word crammed, he puts a lot into his compositions. When you hear it, there’s a lot more going on in the foreground and the background, his music. Is that like a mix of what you’re speaking of, of his tracks?
Yes, because he had like different levels of, for example, she had the recording of the song in the studio or then the recording of the song in a concert with the noises of the audience. Then she could mix that, like the solo from this and the singer from that,
Or he will even mix other songs that are not the same song, and then he will transcribe things that were improvised, and he will give these things to different musicians that will play them then. It’s a solo that was improvised, but then they’re playing it by reading it or
Learning it. So that it sounds like it’s an improvisation but it’s being played by different people at the same time so that would create a very interesting effect. So he was making all types of mixing, a lot of work in the recording studio, effects, and then with the enclave here,
Also too with sampling, and experimenting with the tempos. The thing that amazed me the most is this tempo, this jumping, like he said. The thing he’s doing is really hard to do and very complex what he’s doing with the rhythm. He puts a lot of ideas in just one song.
And sometimes you’re listening to these very funny stupid songs and behind it’s amazing what’s going on and like yeah that’s on this case he’s only explaining the background noise the soundtrack that he’s recreating and it’s already 10 tracks of things and he knows exactly who is saying what and what is happening.
He’s composing with all these noises. So that’s why I say you can have an idea how he heard this quantum hearing. He was really hearing all these small elements that are there and usually it’s like what you see, usually we concentrate in one thing or in one track.
In one thing or in one track. Usually people follow the voice or the melodies. Or some people like to follow the percussions or the bass lines. Right, yeah. But people don’t hear like the whole, like a conductor. They hear all these instruments, all these tracks,
All these tuning, and they can read all these parallel lines of music. Like for example, one pianist reads two lines at the same time, but the conductors, reach two lines at the same time, but the conductors, they have like a more panoramic view, and they can reach at the same time
More lines of melodies, of music, of rhythm, and they are hearing it also. So it’s amazing because it gives me an idea of what he liked about Pauline or Rivera, this concept of quantum hearing, that you can go into, listen and touch, and explore it, and be fascinated
With all the things that are happening like soundtracks and compositions. Do you find that your hearing has changed since you’ve been on the RNA drops? Yes. Do you hear music differently now? Because Bob and I were talking about that last week and I was telling him that I hear
Music differently, all music. I hear just like what you were saying, the panoramic. Not as fine detail, but I just noticed that songs that I used to listen to, that I listen to now I, it’s, the sound is more profound or I can hear more.
And that’s what I asked about, it seemed like Zappa puts a lot more because his music, when I listen to it, it has a richer effect on my hearing. I hear a lot more than normal songs that I’ve listened to. So that’s interesting. And for example, I don’t have the patience to hear,
The other day somebody was playing the Billu’s at work and after three songs I was like God how boring it’s like, oh God, this is so boring. Can you play something more complex? Yeah, it’s something with the beat. But I also find that also, after from listening to Bob,
Live on payday and then all the ironclads and then CKLN days, if i just listen to a news person or something i’m automatically after about three minutes to listen to them um it’s not um interesting i don’t know i don’t know what it is but it’s just something that’s not appealing to listen
Because it’s sort of like the words it’s like what you’re saying about the four beats in the music, it’s just like when you hear another person speaking, it’s not appealing to listen to for some reason. The patterns are also… Yeah, there you go. Yes, yes. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
It’s the weather is not so… It’s not pattern recognition. It’s not the trend management. Well, the patterns are very small, ones that… I mean, we’re being introduced to larger patterns, so when you hear the smaller patterns that are within the big patterns, it’s sort of like old news,
Although it’s new for others, maybe, one way to look at it. Yes, and then there is another phenomenon, like, for example, I was reading about the figure on the ground, because I was reading about
For example, I was reading about the figure on the ground because I was reading about why McLuhan would study the lava and why he went to study media ecology. And I understood that for him, grammar was like the basic art. And it’s very important to understand language and words,
To understand what you are and the environment, what is reality, what is this frequency that he’s talking about. And then this thing happened with the portrait of the king, the king is the figure and the ground is this fabric behind him. And it’s sort of very interesting how somehow what I was,
The concepts I had then become the percepts. The perception sort of also gets this idea the perception sort of also gets this idea of figure and ground. And I’m watching this portrait. So that’s another thing that,
I see that really the perception starts changing on how you connect and how you make that recognition. start changing on how you connect and how you make that sort of recognition. Yes. I noticed that in the… The whole story of Chumboard. Yeah, speaking of the perceptions, because I looked at maybe six different
YouTubes of Chumboard, and I saw something different each time. Each time I saw, you know, sometimes it would be an aerial view and it would come in and you go around. You would see so many different, uh, that’s really special architecture. There’s harmony, but then you also see vortexes, you know, the angles.
Uh, there are some windows in that castle that look just like the chromosome 14 in the middle of the angel diagram. Each time I saw it, I saw something different.
And also, did you ever see the picture of the castle with the reflecting pool and then you would have the flip side in the water? Have you ever seen that picture? That’s amazing, because you see words and every time I looked at a video I saw something. It’s amazing, it’s really amazing.
But that’s the thing that also I found very interesting, this thing about the mirrors, the reflection, the replay, and how all media and language is trying to mirror, to recreate. And then you ask yourself, what is real reality? How do you know you’re not looking at the reflection?
How do you know this is the real real. And all these things people were trying to understand about men being created similar to God and how we are recreating this media to replay the reality to imitate and you see that in the castle to this thing about the mirror
The part of the world I mean it’s just amazing how you found that really just looking at some monsters and then all of a sudden you find this monster of a castle that has… Well they gave it to me.
I think it’s an Ionic joke because he said several times that Godzilla is coming and then this salamander actually looks like a Godzilla with a crown. Yeah. Doesn’t look like a salamander. I heard one. I heard one.
I just want to say that in talking to Aya today about the castle, I brought up the fact that Rachi’s very aware of the past year of you guiding her and they went oh yeah so they confirmed that what Roxy suspected is happening. Yeah. Yeah. Okay you were going to say something.
I always say it’s not me, it’s them, really. It’s like I have the impression they want these things put out. Because many things I don’t know myself and I just… All of a sudden I know them. Yeah. So you were going to say something first. I listened to a… There was different…
There was some in English but then there was some in German and I heard one in German that there are 77, I want to ask Roxana, did you hear it like 77 different stairwells in that castle? Is that correct? 77? Or I heard something different? No, I’m not sure, but I have seen that all the numbers
Of all the things have a meaning, because for example, the eight is related to thoughts and eternity. And this king built 11 castles, and all the measurements of the squares and the divisions, measurements of the squares and the divisions. They’re all like, they were some squares with the alphabets
And letters that were used to give some occult messages. And it’s like they use this type of patterns in the building. So that people who knew these codes can understand. Some people say it’s like a ship. Like they can build that in French say navire, like a ship. Yeah. Is that German?
Yeah, ship, ship, ship, shift, shift, yeah. Also, that was a very keen observation that you had, that the stone, the white stone and the magnesium, it’s amazing. It’s an amazing find. Yes, and usually for example when they sculpting that stone, they use tools for wood because it’s so soft. Yeah.
Also for me it’s a similar mystery of how the pyramids were built, also how that castle was built, how they transported all that stone to create, you know, to finish that, because it’s not like they had a last wagon or, you know,
Big trucks to move the stone into that location, that remote location, so it’s a big mystery. Well, they say they did it with through water and wagons but they use 22, well 220,000 blocks. So all the numbers are like, for example, they have 40 rooms.
And it’s like all the numbers are also very important. Like they were saying things with everything. Yeah. I suppose Bob already asked Kay on… Yeah. I mean, there was another clue also that you say in the numbers, it’s something that stuck out with me,
I heard that, I think it was, I heard Bob say it, and maybe you, Bob was repeating what he heard from you, is that the king only visited her nine times, nine gates. So maybe when you hear the numbers…
Yes, and not only Frank I, but also the Sun King, he was also nine times. And actually, iON said I should see the Nine Gates movie. And I saw it before, but now I have to see it again.
And I saw it before but now I have to see it again. But I was watching all these engravings that are supposed to be in those books. And I was looking at the images and the symbols that are in there.
Yeah, I also want to watch that movie again, The Nine Gates, because I saw it before this. But now it’s more interesting to go back and look for the designs because didn’t you earlier when I first came on you were talking about
The two dogs isn’t that a design in one of those in the books in the book of the nine gates there’s two dogs fighting or two dogs is that what you were referring to earlier? Yeah. Yeah I saw the picture when you said it. Yeah. Yeah.
Hey, Bert, it’s the 9th gate, it’s singular. The 9th gate. 9th gate, okay, 9th gate. Okay. Yeah. And you said you got some of that video on Chambord in English? Yes. Yeah, because… But it wasn’t… Go ahead. It may not play over here. I tried to open
One that Roxy said, but you know, North America, Europe, the divide, so you might have access to stuff we can’t see here. Oh no, yeah, you’re in Switzerland. So you have… So anyways, it’s quite amazing what’s going on there. A couple of points you made I could elaborate, but I am said
For some reason don’t tell anybody this stuff right now. But it’s quite a, in a way, it’s
In a way it’s way more going on there than what we thought a few days ago, you know? Yeah, it’s quite clear every time I see, like I told Roxanne, every time I see it I see something different,
I’m like this is kind of amazing and I was telling Bob I want to go yeah I do too don’t go don’t go don’t go yeah why? that’s the main message for you um the there was something what we just it was something something of a backlog, something about Zappa. Oh.
So he’s doing the quadro. I took it off track when you talked about the chain tracks and that’s how we did it. See that’s what happened. He went to Paul Buff’s studio in 1962 or so and studied under Buff or learned from him.
But Buff had one of the most advanced studios in the world, if not the most advanced. Some of the surfing hits were recorded there, but he had like four, five, six track, which people didn’t have. So Frank very early apprenticed at a very advanced multi-track place. Wow.
I mean the guy is supposed to go to school, or they want him to go to university, or do this or that. He found his university anyways. Couldn’t stop him. You know, he found where he should go, which was this great studio. It was there for him to have if he found it.
He allowed himself to experience it rather than staying in a college music class situation. He’s lucky. Lucky to have had that advantage. He’s lucky lucky to have had that advantage And you say he had this exposure in 1962 Yeah, he met he met Paul Buffer He didn’t buy the studio till August 64
But he meets Paul Buff and hangs out at the studio for a few years two or three years and he made a few records this Paul Buff was known and I don’t know birds of word or one of those famous songs was recorded in Paul Buff’s studio
And you know I overload you with facts but now we have new resonance remember when Carol’s in that New York book in 1999 she has a t-shirt on and says I know Paul Buff personally now you know who we’re talking about now you see the humor of that t-shirt yes
I mean he’s an important person he went on to be a big deal in Nashville uh… and you know Frank bought the studio in august sixty four in less than a year it was uh… torn down he was kicked out of it they would let him take it is props is movie props
The red maca jail to get out of jail after ten days and got out of town and uh… i’ve heard that about a year later they widen the street knocked it down but frank said they are knocked down earlier so i don’t know when it actually got knocked down but it was gone.
Then you go look at our movie, we’re filming where the building was. You look at our videotape of it. It’s more of a more modern building but it’s the same broad wall structure where it was. So they took it away from him. It was a drag
For him but then it got him to LA. Look at that. He gets to LA and everything is going to happen within a few months after he gets to LA. He’s lucky he got there, you know,
Spring summer 65 because everything was open, the and and Arthur Lee and love they always just start in the surface and the birds if he didn’t catch that wave we wouldn’t have uh we wouldn’t have the wonderful world we have today this is like in the song of the third way to heaven
And say this woman gets what she wants even if the store is closed. It’s like supper. You can manifest what you need, no matter what. And what did you say? Some woman? I didn’t get what you’re referring to. Well, the woman with the gold lamé. Oh, M.A. in Stairway to Heaven, right, yeah.
Okay, so she can get what she wants, even if the store is closed. Right. Okay, so let’s just finish this, just a bit left here. So Frank got a lot of money to make freak out $21,000 and as Frank says that’s a heck of an investment for an unknown group
But that’s what Tom Wilson did and Tom Wilson should be put in a in a Rock-and-roll Hall of Fame for Helping Frank so Kofsky says For two LPs that’s about five times what it would take for a jazz group
That was as we really had a good budget for that, which has not been offered to us since. Because at the time we recorded the second album, the sales had dipped on freak out. We found out years later that the mafia, somebody took all the albums and dumped them in a warehouse.
They weren’t distributed properly. Somebody didn’t want them out there. So, Lenkofsky says, I meant to ask you earlier when we were talking about your singles, how has the album done overall? Have you seen an audit on that? Jeff says, sure. I’ll tell you very happily that the first album is around $150,000 right
Now and they project sales of $250,000 for the second album by August. And Freak Out still sells regularly between 2,000 and 8,000 copies a week, every week, in places like Montana, Wyoming, Florida, Virginia and all those places, man.
I know it’s one of the top sellers in the record store and what passes for a campus area in Pittsburgh. That must be where Klopsky teaches in Pittsburgh. He hates Pittsburgh.
He puts it down again. I and they’ll remember the name of it. Kofsky says, some of my students at Carnegie Tech turned me on to it, and the Andy Warhol album at the same time. I think that’s Velvet Underground. Zappa says, I like that album.
I think that Tom Wilson deserves a lot of credit for making that album, because it’s folk music. It’s electric folk music in the sense that what they’re saying comes right out of their environment.
Kofsky says, it’s folk in the sense of what they’re saying comes right out of their environment costy said it’s spoke in the sense of relating to a meal you love love are clearly love is that kind of group to because what they think about is the folk music of the l a freak
What we think about is the fault is the folk music of our environment from pomona to l a you know being kicked around and go-go bars and like that coffee because you’re older too I think. Zappa says our average age in the Mothers of Invention is 30.
The age range is 24 to 35. That’s in 1967. So he’s saying that love was more focused on the L.A. freak scene, the love band, but we sing, but what we sing about is the folk music of
Our environment from Pomona to LA. So it’s more of the, you know, ass kicker bars or something he thinks is what his music comes out of or represents. He says, you know, being
Kicked around in go-go bars and like that. So it ends with the age of these guys, a bunch of old men infiltrating the youth industry. So isn’t that neat? Now we need to play Civilization Phaze III, or you know listen to some of this shit and analyze it. Yeah.
Got to analyze some of this shit and analyze it. Yeah. Analyze some of this shit. So… We are ready for that trick. Right. Did you say that church? Or trick? What did you say? Trip. Trip, yeah, that trip. That trip. Right, so, um, that was very good what you guys were talking about.
That was good to get that on recording. So how do I… It’s important, I think, to just to repeat that McLuhan and Zappa are sort of trying to motivate, inspire the people to see both the figure and the ground. Yeah. Not only the figure, not only the main talk in the mainstream protests,
But to go and explore the environment and see more ground, Make your own patterns. It sounds like I am was on a destructive trip. Kyle writes in I am blew up my cell phone. When I call someone, he says when I call
Someone the phone rings my on phone. Usually they can’t write a fucking sentence. I don’t know what he’s saying, but some of his phone rings by on phone usually they can’t write a fucking sentence I don’t know what he’s saying but somebody’s phone rings on his phone
And there’s no sound so that’s what I’m getting maybe that’s it maybe the thing is ringing but we don’t hear it and you know anyways Kyle you know maybe maybe I Anyways, Kyle, maybe AYA is so fucking powerful now, if we go near him, your phones blow up. Bill’s phone blows up.
No, maybe he, they want to be here, but for some reason their frequency is strong. Yeah. to be here but for some reason the frequency is strong there. Yeah. So, how do I do this? You sent me Civilization Phaze III, didn’t you? A YouTube that had them all or what was that?
Yes, there is a playlist with Civilization. Right. If you go to YouTube, suppose you just write playlists. Well I was thinking that we’d play, I’d read the dialogues to see if there’s anything in them. I’ve got a printout. It came with the album. Cool. Yeah we don’t need to hear
The music part. We’re not interested in the music. We’re interested in genius. Music is a dime a dozen, right? Everybody’s got music. Yes, we need to analyze the logo. Yes, we’re analyzing the logo. So…
The grammar. Okay, I’ll read what Frank wrote, what this booklet says. He’s talking about the set as if it was performed, the environment of the people in the, well I might as well read it all.
General notes, in 1967 we spent about four months recording various projects, Uncle Meat, We’re Only Here for the Money, Woman and the Jets, and Lumpy Gravy at Apostolic Studios, 53 East 10th Street, New York City. One day, I decided to stuff a pair of U87s in the piano,
Cover it with a heavy drape, put a sandbag on the sustain pedal, and invited anybody in the vicinity, in the vicinity to stick their head inside and ramble incoherently about the various topics I would suggest to them via the studio talkback system. This setup remained in place for several days.
During that time, many hours of recordings were made, most of it useless. Some of the people who took the challenge included Spider Barber, leader of the rock group Chrysalis, which was also recording at Apostolic when we weren’t booked
In, All Night John, who was the studio manager, Gilly Townley, sister of the guy who owned the studio, Monica, the receptionist, Roy Estrada and Motahed Sherwood, members of the
Mother’s Invention, Louis Cuneo, a guy who used to come to our live shows at the Gare Theatre and laughed like a psychotic turkey, and a few other people. Some of this dialogue, after extensive editing, found its way into the Lumpy Gravy album. The rest of
It sat in my tape vault for decades, waiting for the glorious day when audio science would develop tools which might allow for its resurrection. In lumpy gravy, the spoken material was intercut with sound effects, electronic textures, and orchestral recordings of short pieces recorded
At Capital Studios Hollywood, autumn 1966. These were all two-track razor blade edits. The process took about nine months. Because all the dialogue had been recorded in, to
Borrow a phrase from Evelyn, a modified dog, that’s a composition he did. Because all the dialogue had been recorded in, to borrow a phrase from Evelyn, a modified dog, that’s a composition he did.
Because all the dialogue had been recorded in, to borrow a phrase from Evelyn, a modified dog, in panchromatic resonance in other highly ambient domains, that’s all in quotes, it was not always possible to make certain edits sound convincing, since the ambience would vanish disturbingly at the edit point.
This severely limited my ability to create the illusion that various groups of speakers, recorded on different days, were talking to each other. As a result, what emerged from the text was a vague plot regarding pigs and ponies threatening the lives of characters who inhabit a large piano.
Now that was all lumpy gravy. characters who inhabit a large piano. In Civilization, now that was all lumpy gravy. In Civilization Phaze III, we get a few more clues about the lives of the piano dwellers and note that the external evils have only gotten worse since we first met them.
The bulk of the musical material comes from synclavier sequences, all music in Act 1. In the second act, the music is a combination of synclavier, 70% and live performance, 30%, along with a new generation of piano people. The new residents, my daughter Moon Unit, actor Michael Rapoport, the music preparation
Assistant for the Yellow Shark project, that would be at Frankfurt, 92. Ali and Askin, my computer assistant, Todd Ivega and the entire brass section of the Ensemble Moderne. All these people were recorded in a Bösendorfer Imperial at UMRK, that’s Utility Muffin Research Kitchen, his studio, during the summer of 1991.
By this time, digital editing technology had solved the ambience hangover problem, finally making it possible to combine their fantasies in a more coherent way with the original recordings from 1967. So then it says, scenario. Civilization Phaze III is an opera pantomime, opera hyphen pantomime with choreographed physical activity in brackets manifested as
Dance or other forms of inexplicable sociophysical communication in the bracket. Plot continuity is derived from a serial rotation of randomly chosen words, phrases, and concepts, plot continuity is derived from a serial rotation of randomly chosen words, phrases, and concepts, including but not limited to motors, pigs, ponies, dark water, nationalism,
Smoke, music, beer, and various forms of personal isolation. All voices and music are pre-recorded. I have to interrupt. I have to interrupt because I think what you did today is also an opera pantomime. Yes. With choreographed physical activity. Yes, and you had to be there, Bert.
It was not recorded, unless someone recorded it off the air somehow, but you have to be there. Oh, wow. I recorded. Oh Oh you did? You recorded it? Oh but there’s some… Wow I don’t know if I want to look at it but… Maybe I inserted it in the Eric McLuhan’s synesthesia video
The Eric McLuhan video? What’s that? Your review of his book Oh yeah yeah yeah No actually that’s good You can use little fragments of it in our videos right? Yeah Yeah the good stuff where I look real good Don’t do the bad stuff. I have no idea how it came across.
Your air guitar solos are amazing. My what? Air guitar solos. Air? Oh, you like that? Yay! I’m very proud of my air guitar. Yeah. Hey, that’s good. But you know, Bill didn’t want to record it because it will just pile up on his website, so we don’t want to bother him with that.
But if other people record it, it might be interesting. It’s a new kind of aristocratic operatic pantomime. Hey, did you like, did you see when I would sit down on the couch and lean back on the couch? Did you like that move? I was proud of that one.
You have a very risky move with your legs up on the air. Yeah, bouncing my legs. Did you start laughing at different points? Yes. You were laughing, good. We do want people to have a good time well I can’t understand it’s it’s you cannot know what what’s going
To happen next it’s like you disappear yeah then you come back and whatever then you disappear did I thought they’re through like I’m not even listening you’re just walking around I was smoking a cigarette, you know, where am I? Is this a bus station? Where am I?
So this is going to be the greatest dance of all time, part two? Yes, this is the greatest dance, part two. But could you tell, Roxy, that I was looking over at Carolyn? Could you tell by my eyes the way I was looking that I was looking at somebody occasionally? You couldn’t.
Because Carol was standing off to the side, standing there with her arm under, you know, like the teacher, the school teacher, she had her fist on her waist and sitting there looking at me. From her point of view, making a complete fool of myself. laughter
She likes my dancing, but she just thought, you know, Bob, what are you doing? It is leaping about. laughter So, yes, you were saying something? Yes, it’s a different type of replay because it’s like The new generations nobody wants to learn to play an instrument. They want to be famous
Just start dancing to the crap to the shit the shit that piles up crap to the shit the shit that piles up and he starts dancing to it. Piles of shit. Bob dances on top of pile of shit. But yeah. Okay so let’s continue here. What did I read? Okay.
All voices and music are pre-recorded, and to the extent possible, all scenic and lighting changes will be automated, with their cues stored as digital code on a track embedded in the AudioMaster. Then he lists the people. The piano people are made up of Spider, John, Frank Zappa, Motorhead, well he doesn’t have
Frank Zappa, he just has FZ. Motorhead, Larry, Roy, Louis, Monica, Gilly, Girl 1, Girl 2, Moon, Mike, Ali, Todd, Darryl, and Jesus. Jesus was on this. The speaking characters all wear oversized masks, gloves, and shoes. They live in an abstracted grand piano represented by crisscross layers of ropes and cables of various thicknesses
Painted to resemble piano strings, cubistically interspersed with stylized resonators, hammers, and stretches of sounding board, surrounded by an ebony region suggesting the rim of the piano exterior. So they actually, he had made a set of a big piano that they’re inside of.
He says the set should be, the set should be designed to move and reconfigure itself as the characters who live in different corners of the piano pantomime. No, the set should be designed to move. The set should be designed to move, the set should be designed to move and reconfigure itself
As the characters who live in different corners of the piano pantomime their dialogue, giving the illusion of viewing the action from several imaginary camera angles. There’s the walking around the room kind of thing. Above the piano is a decrepit-looking megaphone apparatus, which allows the Frank Zappa, or FZ character,
To address the inmates periodically. So the decrepit-looking megaphone, there was the chrome-plated megaphone that Destiny was on, we’re only for the money. That was the name of the song. But he still got it there. Surrounding the piano are groups of movable tableau sets, representing various aspects
Of the threatening exterior universe which has driven our characters to take shelter in this gigantic music box. Dance action occurs primarily in these areas. These should be on palettes or turntables, facilitating quick scene changes. The following is a rough breakdown of the proposed stage activity for each musical scene.
I totally forgot that this was a fucking other play. This fits into our series. This comes after Hunchin’ Tooth. No, after Thing Fish. So, this is to be read as a bunch of scenes. What do you think of that? And I find it very interesting how
He’s also going away from the one point of view, the vanishing point of the printing book. Yes. The perspective of the printing book. Yes. The perspective of the printing book. He says that the set must give the impression of many cameras, like the security cameras we have now everywhere. Right.
All these different points of view and that’s sort of very visionary. Yeah. He saw this threatening environment and how the refuge is the frequency, the bunker is the piano. What’s that? The bunker is the piano, did you say? Yeah, like the bunker against all these threatening… Exterior other media. Yeah.
Now here’s the overlay with McLuhan. McLuhan pointed out that the piano was the ultimate Gutenberg instrument. Much, you know, left hemisphere, fine precision, moving your hands, it’s a totally left hemisphere technology. And so these people are living in the leftover, the meme of visual space, which is the economy
And old forms of wealth measurement that don’t apply anymore. So we’re stuck in this old visual space box and he’s described it with the correct technology, a big piano. It’s literally McCorinism. Yes, and we saw how the keyboard was invented by Bach when the electricity was appearing. Yeah.
And now that is the end of this old environment, the electric environment. It’s already like showing the ionic of this old environment. You have the new box. You know, like McLuhan makes a lot out of that Pope’s Duncied with a great menippean satire about the printing press
Written in 1741-42, that’s when it came out. Then you have 200 years later 1939-1940, Finney’s Wake comes out and Finney’s Wake completes what Alexander Polk did with the Duncet. We got the same in music. We can start saying that Bach started
Like Polk did, responding to the new potentials of uh… the printed world print knowledge and it and with the new way which is that that who layers many tracks in there just like that he’s waiting it’s a total parallel equal eighty-eight algebra pope
And jb box It’s AP, Alexander Pope, and JB Bach. What’s his initials? JB? Johan Sebastian? Yeah, JSB. So you got AP and JSB ending up with, for Pope, FW music FZ, Frank Zappa. FW, you could probably break down the W. See
That F is 6, so 6 and 23, W is the 23rd letter. Zappa is 6 and 26. Then you have JS Bach, you had to make that 1, 19, 2, and Alexander Pope 1 and 16. I bet you could make it, fuck around with it and make it equal equations. Okay.
I’ll leave it to some enthusiasts. We’ll see if Kiggy will do it. Somebody will put it together. I mean, I could do it in in five seconds but I’m not going to do it right now. But I totally forgot that Civilization was a play. I mean I haven’t listened to this in years.
I bought it twenty years ago and uh twenty-two years ago and here we are with it, looking at it and uh it is so McLuhan-esque. Only I know this, right? I’m the only one who fucking knows about this. Eric might know it.
But Eric’s not listening to that. I’m the fucking one doing the work, finding out what our culture means, Bert. Nobody fucking knows. Who cares what? You are doing the revelation. The new revelation, that’s right. Of the scriptures! The book of scriptures!
It’s portraying this, we’re in this transition of the end of this old environment and the coming of the new and we’re in this limbo. What? an evil? an evil? limbo oh limbo and here is another thing what you have is Alexander Pope what these great poets they translate the guys before them they
They cut their teeth on reading the greats and then they produce a great thing well i i did the analysis of the great and now i produce the great new thing i ought you know that’s it the great the great artists always are uh… heavy homework doers you know they
Translate things they study they promote things do a lot of work uh… you know in the group bird mode uh… that’s what I did so I naturally write the new poem because I fucking study the old shit. Listen you’re always talking also of the of the box of the coefficient. Right.
The piano is now something else and this is the new frequency. But in the meantime, there is still there, in this weird mechanism of strings and hammers. What do you have, strings and hammers? You said strings and hammers? Yes, inside of a piano. And you know, you don’t do it for anybody.
I study what I study because I wanted to. It gave me pleasure. So you create something new out of pleasure. Like Pope did what he did. Alexander Pope because he enjoyed doing it. Joyce did what he did. Zappa did. You have to do it. It’s the only way anything is ever done.
You have to fucking be motivated or like it or be into it or be hypnotized by it or exercise. That’s how, and so they spend all this time telling people to do this and that and it doesn’t work. Education doesn’t work. It can only come out of slack.
A relax and allow situation is how great art is made. Yes. Yes, Frank Sapo always said he record and put out the things he liked and if somebody else liked it was a bonus but yeah it wasn’t important and
He was trying to find out what it sounded like you know is that but gets into that Paul buff studio in 62 63 and he then spent the next 30 years stuck he just loved doing the editing that’s what he did for 30 years he sat in a studio and made these things
He couldn’t stop doing the editing. He’s a composer. Perfecting them, replaying them. And you know he actually had the most unique experience it must be incredible to get up there on stage and play his kind of music with his kind of guitar ability.
Can you imagine doing that Bert? What a powerful experience that would be. Yes. And each time different. I mean he never tried to repeat. It’s always different. always different. No, but I think you can have an idea of what it’s like because you do that with speech.
Like you can go and improvise and do your metal jazz and talk and talk into people. And I don’t notice it. Like Frank didn’t notice how great he was. He just couldn’t do it, right? So he didn’t sit around and marvel at it.
He just did it. And I guess’t sit around and marvel at it, he just did it. And I guess I sit around and talk up a storm and don’t think much of it. Yes, and sometimes you can go at different speeds, you can go also very fast. Right.
And it’s like you have to really listen to what you are saying because it’s like you go really like at different tempos, like jumping. Which is a pale approximation of what Ayn can do. Yeah. He did one of those rants on the Led Zeppelin song. He went on near the end,
He went on this multiple rant about something. It’s true but you have to have this ability to improvise with him. Yes. To keep the conversation with him because sometimes it’s quite hard to follow them and to get all the things they’re saying. That’s a good point.
I’m, like, who, who played together, it’s like Miles Davis and John Coltrane. Bob and iON, the new Miles Davis, John Coltrane duo. That’s what you’re saying, right? Take the, a talented, a jam with iON. The fucking guy,
He fucking blew up my phone. And then Kyle got caught in the crossfire. You don’t see people hanging around Bathar or any of those mediums on YouTube is saying, well, the guy blew up my fucking phone. I can’t run my radio show. And you know, it didn’t get fixed
Till I played the song and then Bill called me. He finally occurred to him, oh, I can call Bob. It didn’t get fixed until we played the song. Listen, I was reading an article how, for example, music you like creates different chemistries in your brain that are pleasant.
And even though it’s a type of abstract communication, it’s affecting the chemistry, for example, of your brain. And talking, it must have the same effect. Yes. I think that’s how iON changes the world. You are talking and playing and you are also listening.
It must have also this type of effect on the chemistries of the brain well Frank is a transform after you speak with I am I’m me or any of us everybody yeah I agree everybody that’s to people you are not the same person you’re
Not the same person Dr. E you are the one that has the most hours with them right I’m the most mutated I mean iON has said that I don’t have a body chemistry like any any other human anymore I’ve been told he said so many RNA drops that I’ve mutated,
I’m fucking not human. I’m probably a fucking cobra snake or something in my body chemistry. Like, like today you started dancing. Well that’s a good point, maybe my dancing is communicating with them. And they just keep talking on top for hours. I mean that’s what I’m talking about.
I think I need to take a big glass of coffee to be proper. What did she say Bert? She said you have to take a big glass of coffee to uh… What did you say Rob Santa? To stay awake. To play with Bob.
But it just occurred to me, hey, maybe scientists will look at the video of me dancing. They can read what’s going on in my body. Maybe I actually, there was an important point of me demonstrating myself so people can look at this fucking mutated body. How was I dancing? I
Probably don’t even know how interesting my dancing was. Yeah, maybe there was an agenda. iON said that, iON knew I was going to do this. I was talking to him this morning. I hadn’t told him. And he said, Bob, you know, you’re going to be celebrating.
And he told me what we were celebrating. I mean, we’re celebrating something right now. And that might have influenced me to decide to dance, but iON said, definitely. It’s time for you to dance, Bob. You’re celebrating. So that’s the good news. But I didn’t feel I just
Wanted I just thought hey we got this camera let’s dance let’s just jump around a bit I didn’t think of it in terms of a massive press conference iron says it was a massive press conference we announced our victory and
Bob didn’t see it that way Bob didn’t know why he’s doing it he just did it cuz he felt like it because it could be done so but you know why he was doing it. He just did it because he felt like it. Because it could be done.
But you know why I did it? It’s a couple of weeks ago. The Disco Boy. Yeah, Disco Boy. A couple of weeks ago, I liked the songs. They started off with that early rock and roll, early jump music they call it. No, the jump music.
The more, you know, whatever you, 40s barrel music, piano stuff. And I was dancing around, I said, hey, this would be fun to demonstrate my dancing ability. So I said, okay, so I got the camera, bought the camera, I set it up,
And I went back and played songs from a couple weeks ago. That’s what I did. I had some other ones, but I replayed, I never repeat songs, but I did today just so I could get into the dancing vibe that I got into a couple of weeks ago.
That was how I thought I was doing it, but of course there were larger other reasons why it was being done that my little chemical body brain had no clue about. And it’s like a… The butterfly effect that the wings of a butterfly can affect us. And that’s…
Who knows what this disco boy is provoking. That’s right. Now here’s the timeliness. We could have read Frank Kossky, Tom DeFrank, you know, months ago. We didn’t do it until now, and I’d totally forgotten about it all, but it was about Razzappa creating the Chaos Butterfly Effect.
He influenced the industry all across the board, and we got to read it tonight after I did it in the camera. See the perfect timing of it? Yeah. I mean, I didn’t know Frank talked about it that way. I had a memory of it.
I knew he knew that he was significant and a big influence but I didn’t know he spelled it out in this interview like that. So it’s a, I mean if somebody reading that interview would say this Frank’s a megalomaniac, Frank Kofsky got him talking about how he’s influencing everything.
That’s like a Bob interview. You end up Bob celebrating his great victory over humanity. Starzow is a simple interview. Now, Carolyn does that in medicine. She’s always getting interviewed on these new summits. And some woman just is doing some theme, and here and here’s the old carol some doctor that she’ll
Talk to anybody so they bring carol in every fucking time the person gets cured they’ve got all kinds of health problems they don’t even know they have carol starts talking and they start saying wait a minute i’ve got that blah blah blah blah
And they all get cured right there like she’s curing people while they’re supposed to be doing this topical interview. That’s great. Yeah. A lot of it, what the woman said today, she’s gone to like 200 doctors over the last
20 years or something with all these ridiculous problems. She said, I never learned as much in the hour you talked to me. I never heard anybody say anything you said and it all makes sense. That was her big epiphany, you know, after. They talked for two and a half hours, that’s right.
And Carol wasn’t even gonna do a very long one. But this person got so many insights that they were flabbergasted. But they had gone for years to stupid regular therapists. Nothing accomplished. So here’s what I want to do
Is read you the titles of the songs, if they’re titles someplace, so we can get an overview of the themes. Look, song number two is called Put a Mockery on the themes. Look, song number two, it’s called Put a Motor in Yourself. Remember we were talking about that earlier?
Now… Yeah, do your thing. That’s how you do your thing. Yeah, you put a motor, do do do. So, okay, here’s the list. Act one. And most of these, a lot of them are in quotes, quotation marks, like somebody’s saying it. So, there is 19
Parts, that’s Bob’s number, 19, in part, well, Act 1, 19 parts, 56 minutes and 11 seconds, 19 parts, 56 minutes and 11 seconds. Five is six is 11, and 11 is 11, 22. You go over to Act Two, 22 sections. So you have Act One is 19 parts, Act Two is 22.
You put the two together, you get my birthday, 1922. Then, the Act Two, the time is 5738. It’s like a minute or plus longer than Act One. Act 1, the time is 5738. It’s like a minute or plus longer than Act 1. 5 is 7 is 12. 3 and 8 is 11.
You take the 11 and you make that 2, and you take the 1, 2 of 12, you get 122, which is a special 22. So, symmetrically, Dobstown, up the yin yang. So here are the titles. This is phase three. Put a motor in yourself. Oh
Um. They made me eat it. Reagan at Bitburg. That was 1985. A very nice body. Navanax. I guess that’s a drug. How the takes music works. Xmas values or Christmas values. Dark water. Amnerica. A-M-N. Amnerica. Have you heard their band? Religious superstition. Saliva can only take so much. Buffalo voice.
Someplace else right now. Get a life. A kayak in brackets on snow, which almost looks like I on snow, but it’s a bracket. A kayak in brackets on snow. Now it’s alternate, you have a quote and then a non-quote. A quote then a non-quote. And
It alternates except for at four and five, Reagan and Pittburgh follows another non-quote. It basically alternates. So then you come to 19 and it’s called Enlight. It’s almost like negative pH to me. Enlight. 1. Negative light. 2. Venice submerged. LaRouche did a whole anti-Venice thing, big LaRouchean
Theme that is. 3. The new world order. 4. The lifestyle you deserve. 5. Creationism. 6. He is risen. So that’s the first 19 acts of Act 1. Act 2. Again, no, not so alternating. More quotes than non-quoted. More quotes than thematic things. So here I wish Motorhead would come back. Secular humanism.
Attack, attack, attack. I was in a drum. A different octave. This ain’t CNN. The pig’s music. A pig with wings. This is all wrong. Hot and putrid. Flowing inside out. I had a dream about that. Gross
Man. A tunnel into muck. Why not? That was the name of his company when he started developing Russia or offering assistance to Russia. Why not? Number 16, put a little motor in him. Put a little motor in him. You’re just insulting me, aren’t you? You’re just insulting me, aren’t you? Cold light generation.
It’s like Coldplay. Cold light generation. Deo-phi. That would be the end of that. Beat the Reaper. Waffen-spiel. So what’s Waffen-iel mean, Roxy? W-A-F-F-E-N-S-P-I-E-L. Well, the waffle is like the waffle and the spiel is like a place or like a game. A game, okay. What’s Waffen? This is W-A-F-F-E-N. What is that?
Waffen. Waffen is like guns. Guns? Oh yeah, because it ends with guns. Yeah, they’re… the Yak-2. Yeah, they’re shooting in the distance. So they’re playing with their weapons. Right. Okay, so let’s, I’ll just read it, like we did with the other place. And sometimes there’s a long stretch.
Have you ever seen anything that’s quite ionic, like I was in a drum instead like I was in a dream instead of a drum Oh yeah, is that what that says? And this why not, that’s a way Ian answers to many questions when you ask whatever and he says why not?
What was the name of the… I was called a dream. What did you say? I was in a dream. Which one is that? I had a dream about that. I was in a drum. Oh, yeah, I was in a drum. Yeah, the drum is the acoustic part of the visual space.
You know, it’s eye, ear is the figure. The real ground is tactility. So the eye, ear, the eye is the piano, the ear is the drum. Lucky, he’s got that there. Yeah, the acoustic space and the visual space. Yeah. Wow. Okay, so let’s, I think I should play,
Do you want to take a break for a minute, play some music? Is that what you think? Yeah. Yeah, I might want to go get a drink. Let’s just play a little bit of music. What could we play?
Maybe You Are What You Is, play. Maybe you are what you is or something from civilization number different. So I’ll go into my 1200 Zappa recordings. Let’s see what we’ve got here. Do you also have a cover of The Ring of Fire? Yes, I think so. Let me just check that.
Ring of Fire. Yes. It’s only two minutes, but you want to hear it? Yes. Two minutes. I am playing with the ring of fire. Right. And then I have another one to play. So I’ve got to make sure the checking, what is it, checking Soundflower. Soundflower.
Soundflower audio. Check the Skype, did I knock that? No, that’s okay. I think this starts it. Wow, so. The following is a recording of a session given by the Evergreens. The Evergreens is a name we have. Just jumped to another spot. So, did that live up to your expectations, Roxy?
Did you like that? well it’s funny it’s nice to compare the original versions and his funny covers he’s been playing of these songs he’s making this great satire of these very well-known songs that many of them are also songs that Ivan has played on payday, like the 7th of July and the 25th.
Okay Bill, I’m glad you’re still up. Are we on? Yes. Okay. Do you guys remember the title of the other song I was going to play that I first mentioned? No. They didn’t say it. Okay.
So, Ring of Fire. Have you heard that version before, Roxy, or you just know the theme because of what Ayan said? No, I heard the greatest band you never heard, Old Discovers by Zappa. And you like the way they do that?
Yes, because I like to compare both the original and then the Frank Zappa version. Great. And see how he is interpreting this i was on the phone you know the bill connection it was pretty lousy reception uh… is it better for you guys is it coming through pretty clear yes it’s pretty clear
Okay so what was i going to play i looked this thing up and then i got involved with it finding that song i forgot what is it What was I going to play? I looked this thing up and then I got involved with it.
Finding that song, I forgot. What is it? You guys don’t remember. No, you didn’t say the title. You said you played that and then you would play another. Something Different. Right. Okay, so looking for something different. I think it was in 1986. Well, I don’t know what this is. No, it’s only two
Minutes. I need longer than that. You can do Inca roads. You like Inca roads. Well, I like how he will talk about the woo-woo and the mystery landscape. He was always presented presented as something funny. But he was putting that seed in the people so that they may wonder and maybe research
Or explore on their own. He will not sound like a guru or a new age fanatic. He was making fun of this Eric Von Daniken type of stories. Okay, so… For the… for the for the for the for the dog breath
Dog breath, no I won’t do that Oh yeah, I was going to play the Chrome Play the Megaphone of Destiny. That’s what it was. So let’s see what that is. Chrome Play the Megaphone of Destiny. And because of six minutes, I’m going to mute you guys. Yes. Okay, you’ve muted.
Okay, at C and the word Zappa interlude. Let’s see who’s still here. Bert and Boxy are still hearing. Bob’s on the platform. Hold the example you played, Bob. Say it again. I really like the second piece. Hold the example you played. The last, the laughing. Put your mouth closer to your mic.
Yes, we’re sitting down. I said I really like the second piece of the laughing because Frank Zappa said the universe is a big joke and everything else in the universe is just a subdivision of that joke and that’s why you shouldn’t take anything seriously
Right, now he… you say that was the second last song? The oldies thing? What one was that? One of the first ones you played that is more like a Forbidden Planet type of shit. Oh yeah, the chrome-plated Megaphone of Destiny. That one. Yeah, start off spooky, serious, scary.
And so you like that one, chrome-plated Megap megaphone destiny that’s on world for the money and What do you want to say Bert? You played a old really old Zappa was just like a guitar bass had a nice beat and drums that was really
Old Zappa huh was that Zappa? what was that? well it’s all zappa it wasn’t the the really old not the doo wop oh yeah yeah yeah that’s a downtown talent scout that’s recorded in about the period we’re talking about, 1966
With the kids getting beat up in Sunset Strip. That was Zappa complaining about that scene in 1966. That was ancient. Yeah, that’s really nice. Nice beat to it. Really nice beat to it and the lyrics are
Really funny. Right. Let me just play a minute of it. This was on You Can’t Do That on Stage Anymore, 1995. So it was a released downtown talent scout. They pay him off in acid. He’s got a camera. I guess he goes there every ten minutes. He’s freaking out.
That’s like the first song Frank ever did. and that’s like it it’s a ride from jail in kookaburga and it’s about frequency jailbird music huh? yeah i think the lyrics were this guy is pretending to be a music scout for hollywood but he’s a cop or a fink or
Something right? Busting kids. Yeah. Yeah. And we read about that. We read the card on the map, the Hollywood map, the cop-o card of the finks. Yeah. I’ve never heard this
Song before. If I did, I heard it once and never listened to it again. Geez, I never heard it. I don’t know the sound. Ricky said Ricky ass. Okay, so let’s any other songs you want to hear, again? You have another old one like that?
I mean, around the same, like the next record after that one? Well, let’s see the… The, uh… Yeah, um… I wonder if we’ve got Reagan, the CIA agent, so… Albums. I wonder if we got Reagan the CIA agent, so, albums, the mystery discs has some interesting things on them, let’s find that.
Mystery discs, where are they? Yeah, now every time I hear Ruigan I think about that video in which Zappa said somebody told him he’s being sodomized by a domino. He said that? Yeah, but you remember the interview? You
Got to talk closer to your mic, you’re too far away. Yes, there is this interview I sent you when he was thinking about being the president and he talks about a video somebody told him about he says I have a kid but they show Reagan being sodomized and every time I hear Ronald
Show Regan being totemized and every time I hear Ronald Regan I think about it. Right, right, right. What was he called? Agency Man. Let’s see if that’s listed. Agency Man. agency man I don’t seem the contents Google it. Well, I could Google it. Let’s see.
Maybe they’ll tell us. Okay, from ahead of their time. Now I’m going to call the heads there, Todd. Still looking. Okay, let’s see if this comes through the desired stuff. What it is, it’s a video of President Richard Nixon campaigning about 1960 for president. He loses against jfk
He’s on a talk show playing the piano and that’s called agency man that’s not what i was looking for maybe this will work. Okay. My dream is that we can have a kind of economics which is humane, which is warm-hearted. This one’s H.G. Mann. Somebody calls themselves Frank Zappa.
Interview with the Trilateral Commission economist Paul Sanderson. So, that didn’t work. Um, they’ve got here the album cover. Okay, we now start with the Civilization Phaze III performance. You guys are unmuted? I will start with Act 1. Act 1. See, that was Agency Man. Done a long time ago.
So, here goes the dialogue. Cut one, scene one I guess it is. This is phase three. So Spider and John introduce the first theme, motors. Spider says, this is phase three. This is also, John interrupts. Well, get through phase one and two first. Spider, alright, alright, here’s phase one. Then Frank Zappa
Comes in. The audience sits inside of a big piano and they listen to it grow. The audience sits inside of a big piano and they listen to it grow. Spider says, people are going
To sit inside of a piano. They’re going to listen to this piano grow. John says, they’re going to listen to the piano grow. Spider says, listen. Monica says, this is going to turn into a, Spider interrupts, it’s going to turn into another, hey, Ashbery, you remember how we commercialized
On that scene? John, that was a really good move. Monica, oh, that was a confession. Spider, right man. And all it was like people sitting in doorways freaking out tourists going merry go round, merry go round, do do do, do do do do. And they called that doing a thing.
John, oh yeah, that’s what doing your thing is. Spider, the thing is to put a motor in yourself. And then that slides into scene two called put a motor in yourself. And that slides into scene two called put a motor in yourself.
Where it says a yuppie precision drill team dresses for work in motorized uniforms eventually engaging in a dance routine featuring ladder climbing, ass kissing, karate chopping, self hugging, eventually leading to politics and murder. No dialogue there. Now, scene three, called Oh Um. Oh Um. Lewis, Roy, and Motorhead discover each other.
Gilly goes, Oh Um, girl one, that’s how long I’ve been here. I’ve been here ever since. Ever since it got dark, I’ve been here. Lewis, how’d you get in my home? This is ever since. Ever since it got dark I’ve been here.
Lewis, how’d you get in my home? This is my piano. How’d you get in here? Motorhead, I thought it was my piano. Lewis, it’s mine. Roy, since when? Lewis, since about ten years ago it’s mine. Roy, you sure? Lewis, yes, positively. Roy, no, it was mine.
Lewis, this is a small place. You must be blind, you know. Motorhead says, where were you at? And Motorhead, he grew up with Frank in high school. Roy, could have been one nine. No, it couldn’t have been one nine oh. Lewis, it couldn’t have been any more. How about try, just try G?
Roy, how did you happen to get in here? Lewis, my mother said to me, quote, you’re a bad boy, Louie the turkey. You’d better, you’d better go on E and stay on E and you’ll never see the world. You’re a bad boy because you went to the bathroom on the floor, you know.
I think E means subway, New York subway, get on E. Motorhead, did they make you clean it up? Lewis, no, they, get on E. Motorhead, did they make you clean it up? Louis, no, they made me eat it. Roy goes, oh. And that’s the end of scene three. Scene four, they made
Me eat it. Girl one says, what’s it like when they play the piano? Does it hurt your ears? Larry, no, I found a corner. Girl one, yeah. Larry, yeah. Girl 1, soundproof. Larry, well not really soundproof
But it doesn’t bother you as much as outside. You sneak in. Girl 1, lucky you found such a big piano, you know. Larry, you sneak under the back seat, way here, way down, down here. Way down here, here, inside. And when you hide in the corner, nobody can find you. See,
They can’t hear anything. No, see, they can’t hear nothing because it’s cushioned. Girl One and Larry appear in another area. Scene 5, Reagan at Bitburg. The shopping mall tableau does a quick change, becoming the Bitburg Cemetery. Ronald Reagan appears and lays a wreath on an SS officer’s grave. Within moments,
The stage is filled with happy dancing Nazi pigs and Nazi ponies. Scene 6. A very nice body. Roy and Louis reminisce about Reagan’s personal attributes. Spider and John pop up to comment. Louis, yes. Roy, I kind of miss him. Louis, yeah, me too. Roy, getting on top of him and all.
Louis, he had a very nice body too. Roy, yeah, even though he was a, oh well. Louis, a dual personality, you know? Roy, yeah. Louis, we have to think of what he’s doing out there. Roy, what did he go out there for anyway? Louis, maybe, Roy, maybe he wanted to get on
Top of one of those horse ponies. Louis, yes, maybe he wants to have intercourse with them. Roy goes, what? Louis, intercourse. Roy, well, if he doesn’t get clawed first. Louis, yes,
That’s right. But maybe, maybe he will find a real nice, a very nice kind horse, you know. Roy, a horse. Yeah, horse. H-o-r-s. H-s-w-h-o-r-e-hyphen-a-s-s. No, hyphen-s-s-s. W-h-o-r-e-hyphen-s-s-s. Horse. A horse. Yeah, horse. Horse. Louie, boogie man or something. Something out there. You might find a nice kind, Roy, boogie man?
Louis, well, something, you know. I don’t know what it is myself. A horse, because human beings, decent human beings, nice place to live in. Beans, says Roy, beans? You call them human beans? D-E-A-N-S. Louis, and then before they turned to be boogie men for Roy, that’s why they came into the
Steinway. Lewis, yeah, that’s why, because I just couldn’t take them anymore, you know? They were vicious, too vicious. So I had to go. I had to. I had to come, I had to come in here. Spider. Like, we can’t understand what they’re saying to each other. John, I know.
Then a cut called Navanax. In the corner tableau, representing an old nightclub, a group of dancers dressed as jazz ball pigs pretend to perform something avant-garde, miming in bogus rock video style. Then scene eight, how the pigs’ music works. Says the first of many pseudo-scientific discussions.
Spider says, I think I can explain about how the pig’s music works. Monica, well, this should be interesting. Spider, remember that they make music with a very dense light. John, yeah. Monica, okay. Spider, and remember about the smoke standing still and how they really get uptight
When you try to move the smoke, right? Monica, right. John, yeah. Spider, I think the music in that dense light is probably what makes the smoke stand still. As soon as the pony’s mane starts to get good in the back, any sort of motion, especially a smoke or gas,
Begins to make the ends split. Monica, well don’t the splitting ends change the density of the pony’s music so it affects the density of the pig’s music, which makes the smoke move, which upsets the pigs? Spider says, no, it isn’t like that. John, well how does it work?
Spider, well, what it does is when it strikes any sort of energy field or solid object or even something as ephemeral as smoke, the first thing it does is begin to inactivate the molecular motion so that it slows down and finally stops. That’s why the smoke stops.
And also, have you ever noticed how the smoke clouds shrink up? That’s because the molecules come closer together. The cold light makes it get so small. This is really brittle smoke. John, and that’s why the pigs don’t want you to touch it. Spider, see? When the smoke gets that brittle, what
Happens when you try to move it is it disintegrates. John. And the pigs get uptight because, you know, they worship that smoke. They salute it every day. Monica, you know we’ve got something here. John says, and that’s the basis of all their nationalism.
Like if they can’t salute the smoke every morning when they get up, Spidey says, yeah, it’s a vicious circle. You got it. Then, selection number nine, Christmas values. Lights come up on the left and right tableau sets, each featuring a Christmas tree. The left set shows the yuppie dancers mutating into pigs.
The right set has them mutating into ponies. As the transformations are completed, the two groups leave home and smash each other in the third tableau, in brackets, shopping mall area. Section 10, scene 10, dark water. The center tableau returns to its Venetian configuration.
As the piano characters discuss the meaning of this dark matter, Jesus listens nearby. Monica, dark water. Spider, yeah, it’s trying to say something. Monica, dark water. Spider, yeah, it’s trying to say something. Monica, dark water. Spider, I know, it’s not trying to say something to us at all.
It’s trying to say something to the pig. John says, dark water. Spider, I forget, it’s a… And he goes to a slot and John says, dark water on top of the muck. What is it? First of all, Spider says, I know it’s not trying to say something to us at all.
It’s trying to say something to the pig. John says, Dark water. Spider says, I forget it’s. And then John says, Dark water on top of the muck. Scene 11 is called America. A-M-N-E-R-I-K-A, America. Scene 12. Have you ever heard their band? Monica, have you ever heard their band?
Spider, I don’t understand it though. Their band, I don’t understand. Monica, I don’t think they understand it either. Spider, what? The smoke? John and Monica, the band. Spider. What? The smoke? John and Monica. The band. Spider. The band doesn’t understand what? Monica. Did you know that? Frank Zappa. The smoke stands still. John.
There’s some kind of thing that’s going, that’s giving us all these revelations. Read that again. There’s some kind of thing that’s giving us all these revelations. Spider says, yeah, well that’s the… John says, it’s this funny voice. And he keeps telling us all these things. And I… I just thought… The title.
What? Yes. I just thought that before we just thought of these things. You know? Yeah. Like just off the wall and out of our heads. Yes, I just thought that before we just thought of these things, you know? Like just off the wall and out of our heads. Spider, no, that’s religious superstition.
Did you guys want to say something? Well, I like it. They say they got into the piano the day it got dark and in the Genesis it says before there was only light and we fell, day and night were separated. So we got in this box when it got dark and then… ok
Alright yes now they think this thing is giving us all these revelations, this funny voice that’s Zion ok well scene 13 religious superstition That’s who I am. Okay. Well, Scene 13, Religious Superstition. Jesus leans out of the piano and with a few mystical hand movements, that’s your hand
For the blind, causes the sunken buildings of Venice to resurface. Rising with them we see large, perversely mutated crabs. Motörhead, he’s in the wrong piano. Lewis,head, he’s in the wrong piano. Louis, no you’re in the wrong piano. Roy says no, Motorhead, this is Steinway. Louis says you
Are. Roy, it’s not a Baldwin. Motorhead, yeah. Then Roy says it’s not even a Wurlitzer. Frank Sabbath says, saliva can only take so much. That’s cut 13, cut 14. Called, Saliva can only take so much. A heated discussion concerning what kind of a piano this really is.
Eventually a grave is discovered in a distant corner. Spider, saliva can only take so much. Louie, well I got sores. I got my skin burnt and… I got sores, says Louis. I got my skin burnt, uh, cut open a couple times. It felt good. Wow, it felt good.
And I really, I really climaxed. Girl one. Ah, in other words, we never even had, uh… Girl two. We didn’t have a chance, baby. We… We didn’t have a chance baby. We didn’t have a chance baby. Laugh. These holes are
Just the right size. Girl 1, they really look like it. Yes, indeed, indeed. Girl 2, yeah. Gilly. And here’s a grave. Girl 1, yeah. Girl 2, a grave? Gilly, yes, a grave. Scene 15. Buffalo voice. The ghost of some former female piano dweller rises from the grave, dances within the piano structure,
Leaves it Peter Pan style for a preview visit to the next few tableau sites. Read that again. The ghost of some former female piano dweller rises from the grave, dances within the piano structure, leaves it Peter Pan style for a preview visit to the next few Pablo sites,
Finally returning to her resting spot under the res-resonation. Res-resonation. Uh, that was 15. 16. Someplace else right now. Seeing the ghosts return, Jilly complains about overcrowding in her part of the piano, but doesn’t know where else to go. Jilly, I’d like to be someplace else right now. It’s much more crooked in here.
Where would I like to be? Where would you like to be? Says Girl One. Jilly, oh, I don’t know. Girl One, where would you like to be? Jilly, I like, I like, what? I like strings a whole lot. Did I read that? Where would you like to be, says Girl 1.
Jilly, oh I don’t know. Girl 1, where would you like to be? Jilly, I like strings a whole lot. Girl 1, where would you like to be? Gilly, sigh. Girl 1, huh? Where would you like to be? Gilly sighed. Girl 1, huh? Where would you like to be?
Gilly says, oh it’s so hard. Girl 1, where would you like to be? Gilly, I can’t think of anything else. Girl 1, hmm. Gilly, the piano, a drum, strings, motorhead, these strings are so tempting. Roy, uh-huh, Jilly, that’s it exactly. Then, scene 17, Get a Life.
Jilly does a bad imitation of Martha Graham wrist to forehead choreography, hanging from the piano strings and punching back at this at the hammers as they oppress her 18 a kayak on some a Kayak on some on some in bracket. It’s now time for Monica to recite bad poetry
Leading to a short discussion of worms Monica a kayak on snow. A… Where were we? A kayak. I got disconnected there. A kayak on snow. It is now time for Monica to recite bad poetry leading to a short discussion of worms. Monica, a kayak on snow, a mountain.
Spider, there’s a mountain on the beach. Monica, it was under the beach. John, a mountain under the beach? Monica, yeah. John, how did you get to it? Run by means of two? And diabetes? How did you get there? I lost my place again. Where did we get? Let’s discuss the worms. Kayak.
Kayak. Right. A kayak on snow. It is now time for Monica to recite bad poetry leading to a short discussion of worms. Monica, a kayak on snow. A mountain. Spider. There’s a mountain on the beach? Monica, it was under the beach. John, a mountain under the beach? Monica, yeah.
How did you get to it? asked John. Monica, we didn’t. It found us. Spider. It came up under the beach? Monica, yeah. How did you get to it? asked John. Monica, we didn’t. It found us. Spider, it came up through the beach? Monica, no. It never came up.
And the moon, the moon was shining on the sand. And we saw the mountain with the snow. So, uh, the, um, medical guy’s assistant. That was the last person. Um, okay, so then we come to the last part of Act One. Oh man, there’s more. I blew it again.
So, Spider says, it came up through the beach. It came up through the beach? Monica, no, it never came up. And the moon, the moon was shining on the sand. And we saw the mountain with the snow. John says, underneath? Monica says, underneath.
Spider, did you see any of those little worms like, like were in the mud? That ends section 18. Now we come to section 19. First title, End Light. This dance shows the exterior world crushed by evil science, ecological disaster,
Political failure, justice denied, and religious stupidity. It has five parts of end light. First one, negative light. The left tableau is now a mad scientist’s laboratory. He has invented negative light and is murdering an assortment of caged animals with it. Then is submerged, part two.
The center tableau shows us dancers dressed as Venetian landmark buildings vanishing beneath waves of childishly grinding stage water. Part 3. New World Order. The right tableau is a dark city with ragged citizens moving in lines from place to place supervised by squadrons of uniformed ponies. The Lifestyle You Deserve, Part 4. The left
Tableau is now a courtroom. Pigs are suing each other and dragging away bags of money. 5. Creationism. The center tableau is now a cubist collage of badly imagined Bible stories including the Garden of Eden, Noah’s Ark, Sodom and Gomorrah, etc.
Pig and pony dancers reenact these scenes but interweave them resulting in an incomprehensible finale. Part 6. He is risen. Jesus pops up in the middle of all this like a baffled jack-in-the-box. The dancers attempt to worship
Him but he casts them away. After examining the mess they have made of his parables, he them with a holy hand grenade. So we are going to do part 2 after a break. Did I finish the Jesus part? He is risen. Jesus pops out in the middle of all this. What?
I don’t remember. I remember you said Jesus pops out but I don’t remember the rest of Jesus. Yeah I slipped off again. Jesus pops up in the middle of all this like a baffled jack in the box. The dancers attempt to worship him but he casts them away.
After examining the mess they have made of his parables, he discloses them with a holy hand grenade and leaps into the piano. So that’s what happened in 2 Acts 1. It ended with an explosion. Very, very…
With the blasting. Yes, it ended with a blast. He is risen, Jesus pops up in the middle of all this.
What will Arion say about all this, the chemistry, the molecular dark matter that dissolves when you touch it, and the smoke and all these things that this music that is made with very dense light and they salute the smoke and all these images that he’s creating the negative light that kills animals.
I suppose I would say that’s something the dark matter, the dark water. Because then he’s talking about America, like the apocalypses in Babylon. Like the things that are coming in the revelations. Sir?
Are you there brother? I noticed I think it was the first 11 before the buffalo each scene was connected and then it dropped off and then it was random scenes because I think it was the first 11 scenes
There was a word or a set of words that was the title of the next scene and then it dropped. Well, we did the 19 themes. I’ll just read the last one again. He is risen. Jesus pops up in the middle of all this like a baffled jack-in-the-box.
The dancers attempt to worship him, but he casts them away. After examining the mess they have made of his parables, of them with a holy hand grenade and leaps into the piano. Does that make sense? No. Well, I was thinking of… Well, it started with the piano and ended with the piano. McLuhan,
As he was doing his exegesis of the Gutenberg Galaxy, he was making actually sort of a history of the church and how it was sort of made obsolete with the electric environment. But the whole Gutenberg Galaxy is actually talking about the effects of the book in the medieval society.
And I see this, I don’t know, it reminds me of all these things, Matthew and Warren, studying and saying, Jesus coming and blasting everything with a holy hand grenade and leaps into the piano. Okay are we ready for part two? Act two? Yes. Yes.
Act two, one. I wish Motorhead would come back. motorhead has since died. He died a few years ago But this was done 20 years ago 20 Maybe 25 years Roy and Lewis open up No, Roy and Lewis open with more speculation on motors Lewis. I wish motorhead would come back
Oh, wow, motorhead motorhead would come back. Oh wow, Motorhead. Motorhead, where are you Motorhead? Roy, he’s probably getting eaten by one of those ponies. Lewis. Yes. Wasn’t that, that was the guy, there was a Lewis in the first Catbeaver vs. the Grump
People who was afraid of being eaten by horses I think. And he had the same name. So Roy, he’s probably getting eaten by one of those ponies. Louis, yeah. Roy, maybe he’s out there playing with motors. Louis, motors? Motors? No, no, no. Two, secular humanism.
On the opposite side of the stage, pony-clad dancers pretend to eat a Christian family values dinner. 3. Attack, dinner. He managed them all. The attack, attack, attack. Roy and Louis discussed the crabs. Louis, attack, attack. And attack it on the eee, he’s scoping for boogeyman or something.
Roy says, sure, aren’t you glad I’m not too hairy? Louis, yeah. Roy, too hairy, he-he. That beast. So, did I finish that one? No. I don’t know. You’re not paying attention. You don’t know whether I finished it. Of course. All right. How can we know?
Lewis says, I wish Motorhead would come back. Oh wow, Motorhead, Motorhead. Where are you Motorhead? Roy, he’s probably getting eaten by one of those ponies. Lewis, yes. Roy, maybe he’s out there playing with motors.
Lewis, motors? Motors? No, no, no, no. I remember doing that. Secular humanism. On the opposite side of the stage pony clad dancers pretend to eat a Christian family values dinner. There’s a satire on culture as food. Three attack attack. Almost like a satire of McLuhan and his Catholic Yes.
Talks about the sacraments and the pent-in-cost and the Catholic humanism. He’s talking about the secular humanism. Yes. So, Lewis, attack, attack, attack, attack, get on the E-E-E, East Pony or Boogie Man or something. Roy, sure, aren’t you glad I’m not too hairy? Louis, yeah. Roy, too hairy, he-hey.
Louis, that, that beat, yes, that beats, that beats, yes. Louis laughs like a turkey. Roy, that’s why they have a lot of crabs. Louis, yes, and, um and Roy, a set of crabs? Louis, crabs are really dangerous and they were riches buyers and every once in a while you walk in the streets
And when I heard of these from talk from my home here, my piano, Julie says, my piano is still dark in here, it’s the same as it ever was. I’m here, I’m not the same as I ever was. Julie, Girl 2 says, then. Okay? We rested enough? Okay. Where are we?
Do I have to read it out loud? Girl 2 says okay. Girl 2. Girl 2 says okay. I did secular humanism. Then I did attack, attack, right? The crabs are really dangerous. Hello. No, Julie goes, huh, my piano. I’m still dark in here. It’s the same as it ever was.
I remember that, right? Yes. Girl 1. Now what’s the difference? Girl 1. Girl 1. Girl 1. Girl 1. Girl 1. Girl 1. Girl 1. Girl 1. Girl 1. Girl 1. Girl 1. Hello, no, Gilly goes, huh, my piano, I’m still dark in here, the same as it ever was. I remember that, right?
Yes. Girl one, now wait a minute. Those are my bass strings and I get the bass strings. If there are going to be three of us here, I want the bass strings, that’s all there is. Gilly, interrupting, who are you? Girl 1, live here. Girl 2, I live here. Gilly, who are you?
Girl 2, I live here. I live… Repeat that, I live here. Gilly sighs, that’s my name too. All girls sigh. Gilly,. That’s my name too. All girls sigh. Gilly, were you ever not long ago? Well, we move on? Yeah. I said, I live here.
I live here. Did you hear? That’s my, Jilly says that’s my name too, all girls sigh. Did I do that? Yes. I’m just making this interesting. What’s going on? I’m creating involvement. I’m trying to get you guys involved in the interval, the gap.
So Jilly says, Jilly sighs and says that’s my name too, all girls sigh. I said I live here, I live here, did you hear? That’s my, Jilly says that’s my name too, all girls sigh. Did I do that? Yes. I’m just making this interesting. What’s going on? I’m creating involvement.
I’m trying to get you guys involved in the interval, the gap. So Jilly says, Jilly sighs and says, that’s my name too. All girls sigh. Jilly, were you ever not living here? What? I’m repeating. Okay. Jilly says, were you ever not living here? Girl one, I don’t think so.
Jimmy says, were you ever not living here? Girl one, I don’t think so. Girl two, nah, I was in a drum. Then part four, scene four, title, I was in a drum. All three tableau areas become part of a game show set, reminiscent of the American Gladiators.
Pigs and ponies battle each other for exciting cash prizes. Pigs and ponies battle for each other, no, pigs and ponies battle each other for exciting cash prizes. Pigs and ponies battle for each other. No, pigs and ponies battle each other for exciting cash prizes. Wow, that’s the drum.
Can we project anything on that? The American gladiators, exciting cash, they’re the only ones getting money nowadays, right? Flooding into South America. And we did, I was in the the drum all three were tableau all three tableau
All three tableau in there all three tableau areas become part of a game show set reminiscent of the American Gladiators. Pigs and ponies battle each other for exciting cash prizes. Alright, number five, a different octave. With Jesus watching his head perplexed, with Jesus watching, no, with Jesus scratching
His head perplexedly nearby, Spider gives his version of the origins, Spider gives his version of the origins of the universe. Spider, we are actually the same note, but… John says, but different arcade. Spider, right. We are 4928 arcades below the big note.
Monica, are you trying to tell me that this whole universe revolves around one note? Spider, no, it doesn’t revolve around it. That’s what it is. It’s one note. Spider, everybody knows that lights are notes. Light, light is just a vibration of the note 2. Everything is, Monica.
That one note makes everything else so insignificant. John, what about negative light? fighter pigs use Pigs use it for a tambourine. That’s negative light Pigs use it for a tambourine, which is one of the reasons why their music is so hard to understand
Is so hard to understand I don’t see any Zappa lurking in here I gotta get back on track it’s funny because the tambourine is like the easiest thing to play I mean to play other instruments but that’s what makes the music hard to understand.
Yeah, so you’re saying they go and get the accordion or whatever it is? I don’t know, I’m all over my head. Well, I think… I’m not over my head, I never get over my head. He’s making also fun about this, the theories that we invent to explain the universe.
For example, there is this girl reciting poet and after they had a discussion on worms, like, he’s making fun of this academia and high culture. At the end it’s all nonsense. All this. It’s like Baudrillard being so complex that… It’s like what being complex? Like Baudrillard, it’s like um… Baudrillard, yes.
The high culture get lost in all these discussions about worms and about whatever. Alright, part six. It’s just making fun. Yes. Monica, that one note makes everything else so insignificant. John, what about negative light?
Spider, pigs use it for a tambourine, which is one of the reasons why their music is so hard to understand. So now, part, scene six, this ain’t CNN. Ali, I’ve been gradin’ at Kima. And undo haba gisham das. Stefan, ah, Byron Rouse., Mike this ain’t the UN man, Daryl,
Excuse a pole, lo no ha capado a caso, Mike, hey yo man, Ali, Ali, verse a kindort. I’ve been jest in dem clavier herina. And Klimt so klamish. Bill, de spreek green normal tal. Mike says, this ain’t CNN. Moon, I am the only girl here. Stefan, uh-huh.
Moon, it is dark and I am nervous. Mike, hey, hey, hey, she’s with me champ. Frank answers and he seems to be driven Spider. Is that right? This ain’t CNN. We’re still doing that. Moon is dark and I am nervous. Mike, hey, hey, hey. She’s with me, champ.
Frank, turla tutu, chaparral point to laughter. Darryl, a man, no, a mean, non-important, Champ Frank Turla Tutu Chaparro Pointu Laughter Darryl A man no A mean non-important that doves da and dando That’s Darryl Ali Dakint Macho Roman Dizanum Clavier Joe Moon Honey I don’t like this
Beside moon it says Honey I don’t like this. Beside Moon it says, Honey, I don’t like this. And Mike says, Hey, yo, my man, my fists speak English. Ali, all I… No, Ali, I need, I need, when I read, Red Schoolboy, Grish. Rich.
Stefan, oh God. Frank, you think that English is the only East language in the world more numbing and laughing among themselves. So Marshall gives the dumb person Donates his line to the dumb person So-called dumb, you know slow time delay
What were we doing what did I say each language in the world more mumbling and laughing among themselves Did I say that Yes, okay Okay. So Voda, that was Frank, so Voda says, river it here hearing the common bin have eek a pastrami sandwich to Gayson that’s where Tirish got.
Bill, this guy, this guy wants something to eat, man. Please go closer to your mic and speak clearly. This guy, this guy wants something to eat man. He ate a pastrami sandwich, that was very good. Please go closer to your mic and speak clearly, I don’t know what you said. You’re speaking German?
Yes. You said he ate a pastrami sandwich, that was very good. Okay. I wonder what she said, Burb. Do you know what she said? Yes, she, uh, before she said it in English, but now she just said it in German, what she just read. About the, uh, there had to be dead tonight.
She said she ate a pastrami sandwich that was very good. Yes. So, we’re doing this ain’t CNN. How far did I get? Oh yeah, Savoda. Bill, this guy wants something to eat, man. Moon, I understood pastrami sandwich. Ali, gets him a pony, gets him duck a pony. Mike, in
The brochure they said that there was a good room, there was good room service here. Mike, that was in one of our plays we read, Cat Beaver vs. Young People, or the mud people, or the my people, the grunt people.
Moon says, they said 24-hour room service. Darryl, did they give you a number? Moon, just dial the operator and they can tell us. Darryl, the right information. Mike, I haven’t gotten an operator since I came here. Excuse me, I asked you a couple of… Moon, can you put… Mike, excuse me?
Where’s the payphone? The vo-da… The vo-da-vo… The vo-bo-da… Payphone! Mike, payphone! This ain’t the CNN. This ain’t CNN. Moon, I understand the strawberry sandwich. Ali, Gibson I’m pony, get in I’m pony, get in doc I’m pony. Mike,
In the brochure they said that there was a good room service here. Moon, they said 24 hour room service. Darryl, did they give you a number? Moon, just dial the operator and they can tell us. Darryl, the right information. Mike, I haven’t gotten an operator since I
Came here. Excuse me, I asked you a couple of… Moon says, can you put… Mike says, excuse me? Where’s the payphone? Savoda says, payphone. Mike, payphone? Moon, we don’t need Bill and Ali payphones. Mike, and how are we going to get the room service without the pay piano, without the pay…
The play phone? Ali says. What does he say? Ali says. Ali. Did I go Ali? Yes, that was the last word. How are we going to get the room service without the payphone? Translation please Bert. How are we going to get to the payphone?
Okay, how do you know about that? He just said it. Oh, okay. He said it before Ali says. Mike says, I haven’t got an operator since I came here. Excuse me. I asked you a couple of, Moon, can you put, Mike, excuse me, where’s the
Payphone? Savoda, payphone, Mike, payphone, Moon, we donphone? Zvoda, payphone. Mike, payphone. Moon, we don’t need Bill and Ali, payphone. Mike, how are we going to get the room service without the payphone? Zvoda, payphone, payphone. Frank, telephone. That’s a different Frank. Frank, telephone to payer. Ali, to payer. Einzahl, telephone.
Herman, telefonkarte. Qualité and secret site. I’m the telephone Herman telephone card quality and security site I was either hand bill this guy doesn’t even know what a payphone is Bill what the hell is he doing here in the first place So that was item number six
Oh my god it goes on and on. Bill, what the hell is he doing here in the first place? Herman, wir sind Deutschlandkommunikationsgesellschaft. Ellie, gestern where and we’re from… Kommunikationsgesellschaft. What? Mitigation. What did you say? We are the German Communication Society. And you know them? No, but you just said that.
I did say it, so I’m referring to something over there. Right? Yes. All right. Herman. The Communication Society. Right. Herman, 30-1103-11436. Qualitative Heiner Hand Telecom. Mike, excuse me, we paid money, hey, to be alone with some privacy. Bill, well, that’s just too bad. You could be alone someplace else.
Mike, hey, don’t give me attitude. Darryl, well, I guess we’re supposed to be alone. Bill, I’m sorry, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry.
I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. to be alone with some privacy bill well that’s just too bad uh… you could be alone someplace else right they don’t give me attitude well i guess we’re supposed to move over stephan yeah okay let’s move over a little bit
You’re in my space man fuels out all the way out please this is ridiculous barrel issues need know there was a gun before here and Moon, who? Did they leave a number we can call? Darryl, before these guys got here there was Savota Laugh.
Mike, excuse me, yo yo, you know where the phone is at man. Darryl, no there was a gun here and laughter. Mike, yo yo I don’t want trouble. Frank, if you want trouble, buy a drum, yeah? Moon, I know that this can’t all be worked out and…
Mike, now we don’t gotta, we don’t gotta go anywhere sweetheart. Moon, no but listen, listen, they told us we’d be alone and it seems that everyone is listening to us. Mike, who? This guy over here? Bill, that’s right, that’s right, we’re listening. Mike, what are you, a tough guy?
Mike says, what are you, a tough guy? I’m tough, I’m tough. Moon, honey, honey. Bill, that’s just the way it is, you can get tough all you want. Moon says, okay, okay, that’s all. Mike says, well, maybe we
Should try to work this out together. But I know I want my space, champ. Zero, what do you mean? You bought this space. Moon, this always happens. I don’t understand. Mike,
That’s right. I bought this space. You got a problem with that? Darryl, well you know, it sort of feels like my space, don’t you? No, I have to push it in. Okay, Darryl, well you know, it sort of feels like my space, I don’t know.
Moon, you know what this feels like? I mean, yeah, why don’t we buy the swamp land too? Mike nobody said nothing when y’all bought on, nobody said nothing when y’all bought my people right? Stephan, who’s having this loud voice in this little grand piano?
Daryl, a bit out of Mike, new NWA, rap, hip hop, the new thing, yo, MTV raps. Stefan, Sonati, that’s music. Mike, so what? Stefan, Mozart, alter, Mozart, Seeky Alter. Mike, I like Public Enemy. Stefan, I like Mondschein Sonata. Mike, I like Brand Newbians. Big Daddy, Big Dad Daddy? What is it?
I like Brand Newbians. Big Daddy Kane. Ali, that’s Klinkso Grauenhaft. That’s Mekdeth, Thay, Nemerhoen. Moon, whatever he said, ditto. I don’t understand, but… I have to see see what happens here. Moon. Whatever he said, ditto. I don’t understand, but I feel that he said something I would probably approve of.
That was number six. Scene seven. The pig’s music. The right tableau is reset to the Christmas position. Around it, as if caroling, we see the ghost of the creationists roasted by the holy hand grenade, singing badly. F.C. or Frank Zappa. Tonight you guys are going to try and figure out the pig’s music.
Spider. You see if we understood it, you see if we understood it, people would stay and make some films that Art could play Sound Man on. But no, the kids are leaving. It’s affecting the budget of something, but I can’t remember what my thought was. So Moon said, whatever he said, ditto.
I don’t understand, but I feel that he said something I would probably approve of. Scene 7, the pig’s music. The right tableau is reset to the Christmas position. Around it, as if caroling, we see the ghost of the creationist roasted by the holy hand grenade singing badly.
Frank Zappa, tonight you guys are going to try and figure out the pig’s music. Did we already do this? Sounds familiar. Yes. Wait a minute, we’re in act two. How come I did that? You just did it. Alright. You just repeat it. You just did it. Alright. You just repeat it.
The pig’s music. The right tableau is reset to the Christmas position. Around it, as if caroling. Again! You already did that. Yeah. Around it, as if caroling, we see the ghost of the creationist roasted by the holy hand grenade, singing badly. Frank Zappa.
Tonight you guys are going to try and figure out the pig’s music. Spider. You see, if we understood it, maybe we could help the pigs understand. John, nah, the problem with that is you think the pigs are essentially kind at heart. Spider, uh, I didn’t say that.
John, but the pigs are essentially pigs. John, if we could either move the smoke or if we turn the cold light on it and shrink it so they can’t even salute it and turn the page, spider interrupts and goes, it’s really, it’s sort of the opposite
Event. You see it was a long time ago when pigs and ponies used to interbreed with people on farms and they reached a state where like the pigs were communicable. They brought them in and tried, tried to teach
Things. They’re just as likely to live in the ocean as anywhere else. Wouldn’t get rid of them really. It just means that the ocean would be just as unsafe as every other place. That’s what happened. You know, they tried to put them palaces, no, that’s what happened.
You know, they tried to put them places where they wouldn’t make it, but they made it anyway. John, they wanted to use yaks too, pig with wings, ee ee ee ee, spider, what’s that? John, that’s the pig with wings. So, that was number 7. Number 8, a pig with wings.
While Jesus pretends to produce a guitar like sound by manually strumming the giant piano strings the left cablo also reset to the Christmas position is lit once again. Emerging from behind the trees like an ornamental angel, we see a large sow-like creature with angel
Wings dancing clumsily. That was scene eight. Now we go to scene nine. And it’s called, This is All Wrong. Moon, this is all wrong. This is all wrong. Frank Zappa, the pigs run the city, the ponies run the TV station, and you want it to apply for a job.
Spider, some of them wear these jackets that are made out of polished animal skins. It’s called leather. Read that again. Some of them wear these jackets that are made out of polished animal skins. It’s called leather. John, leather? Monica, oh, and their tight black pants? Spider.
It’s sort of like plastic, only it’s made out of animals. Larry, it’s sad, ain’t it? Monica, yeah. Larry, you can’t win them all. Their closest number nine. No, more, more number nine. Moon, O. And what did she say, O2? See what she said, O2. It’s…
She said it was made, it was plastic plastic but made out of animals. Okay, so Moon goes, oh, Mike, sweetheart, Moon, what? Mike, if we go to the dot dot dot, we could probably be alone. Moon, yeah, Ellie, woo, Moon could not drink coffee. Ali, gel caffee was such a social guac,
A baba daz in a clavier. Another way would be yeah. One day I’m just walking along and I walk right by the place, recognize the significance and had my picture taken. Whoa, could not drink coffee. Jow Caff was a school goat. Abba de César Clavier. He says, I want some soul food.
Soul food. Yay! So, we’re trying to finish scene nine. Moon, oh, Mike, sweetheart. Moon, what? Mike, if we go to the, we could probably be alone. Moon, yeah, Ali, whoa. Moon, could drink coffee. Ali, gel coffee wore a shogwat. Abba does the flute. I want some soul food. It’s
A heart break. It’s a heartbeat and it feels like a, says moon, it’s a heartbeat and it feels like a, Mike says have you seen Jungle Fever? Moon, a big hot… Moon says a big… dot dot dot, a big…
Ellie, ha ha, Gordon wants seen Maya getting been. Mike translates, Jungle Fever, the girl with the big butt. No, it’s a question mark, the girl with the big butt? Ali back B.A.K. Boo Paya Noonan, Isindia Reredan Mirnan, no, I conked out there. Where were we? The girl with the big butt. Oh yeah.
Ali back. I conked out. What? Okay. I conked out. What? I don’t know, I called out. Yes, you did? Yes. Okay. But, no, but. This is not a valid menu option. But, by, no, but, boo, pier, yon, nonum, I send thee, never, den, cinema, bil, dun, sen.
Moon, this must have been what the brochure was talking about. They said you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d,
You’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, you’d, P.A. Anonym. I Cindy never then cinema buildung sin. Moon. This must have been what the brochure
Was talking about. They said you’d feel a kind of a serenity, a feeling of peace of of Mike, hey, why don’t you shut up? Elite. Popular. Sage such a layers. Cav bear see and he’s a lot of that. I’m a burrata large I Sacular sky rocky a keep diggum
Buzzallo, where’s that turkeys? Moon, entering into a different realm, I can’t remember the name of it. Mike, hey yo man, I don’t like all this waterfall action. Moon, and I guess that’s where most of the part of it, I guess it’s all about resolving past crime and everything and also about…
Ali, Bench, Mike, hey, hey, yo, hey. This ain’t the Blue Lagoon. What the hell? This ain’t a dream of Jeannie. Ali, buy Poonam tinda beer. Mahani, Gibby, Beersy, Yapmuk, Lairzum, Yanny. Mike says, Hey, why don’t you shut up? Aligocula, Sesatian, Kavan, Birzian, Babadla, Bunlard, Agyptacular, Sicula, Olar, Ayyiptajlidimi, Yagamurda, Bacilloye.
Moon, entering into a different realm. I think we did this. Entering into a different realm. I can’t remember the name of it. Hey, yo man, says Mike. I don’t like all this waterfall action.
Moon, I guess that’s where most of the part of it is. I guess it’s all about resolving past crime and everything. And also about L.E. Bents. Mike, hey, yo, hey, this ain’t the Blue Lagoon. What the hell, this ain’t I Dream of Jeannie. Somebody said, I guess, what about I Dream of Jeannie?
And I said, nope. What? Man, man, I’m going to close off communication if you don’t start speaking the language. So what, Mike says to Ali, what? Man, man, I’m going to close off communications if you don’t start speaking the language. Jack? Okay. That
Was number nine. That was a long argument. Number ten, hot and putrid. Spider, he says, the hotter the sound is, the more putrid it smells. I’ve discovered that to be true in almost every case that I’ve experienced. Mike says, what are you talking about? Eleven, blowing inside out. What?
He said, you said, what are you talking about? And I said gas because he rang up and said gas is not dead but smells funny. Okay, flowing inside out. The car doesn’t always… What? Oh, gone, gone. I had to read this whole thing. Okay, move forward here. Number 11, flowing inside out, spider.
Flowing inside out creates neutral energy. Now, that makes the light get thick. Then you’ve got this converter, and what that does is it takes this really thick light and it rams it into this little compressor which then sucks the water out so that it envelops the bathtub in this big halo.
But you know, it’s like a satire of Iron Dawn, because for people who don’t know what we’re talking about, we must sound like that. Like the negative light and the combustion and the smoke. Negative pH. Negative pH. It’s like what? Negative pH, yeah. Yeah. Okay, let’s try to finish this.
Frank Davis says, a halo of new mesons. Spider, a halo of new mesons. Guess Frank was telling son what to say. And the whole problem here is that all you have to do is take that little modulator out and, uh, John, reverse the phase
On it. Twelve, I had a dream about that. Jilly, I had a dream about that once. Girl two, you did? Jilly, yeah. Girl two, then you must be me. Girl 1, yeah that’s right because… Now wait a minute. Now you two are me because I had a dream that the two were here.
I heard one person breathing in my right ear. And then I heard somebody cough just like me. Sniff.
Um… Spider. Um, spider, wait a minute, I got to, I had to sneeze, wait a minute, I got to find a phone booth for the spider, here, ah, now I have it, I change clothes and suddenly I am Grossman. Grossman is scene number 13 with no description.
Number 14, a tunnel into muck. John reveals a problem with seeds that plague him during periods of intense excavation. John, maybe the kayak is just a big worm. Monica, I found that to be a possibility. Spider, the worms stop in the tunnels sometimes. John, where are the tunnels? Spider, they’re in the muck.
John, in the muck? Spider, yeah, you saw the muck. John, but you know, whenever I try to tunnel into muckuck it always collapses on me. Scene 15, why not? John, then we sell them ladders, because they’re going to have
To have ladders to get into the piano, right? Spider, yeah, when it starts growing. John, right. We set them down and like we turn the lights down and turn on the red ones. Monica, what are you going to do? Stop Stoop to strobe lights or what? Spider. Ah, no, no, no. Scene 16.
Put a little motor in him. Frank Zappa. We’re going to put a little motor in him. Spider. We’re going to put a little motor in him. John. I could have all sorts of different kinds of names for the motors, although the motors would be the same.
Spider. There’s dry motors and wet motors would be the same. Spider. There’s dry motors and wet motors, right? John, right. Spider. The motor for a bill is a dry motor. So after they put that thing in there for about half an hour, they suddenly can’t stand it without having a wet motor too.
Without having a wet motor too. So if they try to get away with spending only a bill, they end up spending about five because they got to get this, this four bill wet motor. John, good idea. Spider, now we
Have a damp motor for the ones who aren’t sure. Moon, it’s about letting go. We’re all inside the piano. We’re all looking for a place inside the piano or a place to be alone. Ali, get piano is in the bear my Anna Uxa. Dear Dava, if you go to Pada, as he’s
Act have low he’s not stack neck here gizzle to that deal me Abby. Get now. What did she say? Get now? What is it? Get now. Exactly. Get now is German for exactly. Oh, okay. Get now. Alright. Number 17. You’re just insulting me, aren’t you?
I’ll read that again. You’re just insulting me, aren’t you? Mike to Ali. You’re just insulting me, aren’t you? It’s not funny, man. Ali. Tabaya, tabaya, tabay, ay, ay. Mike, it’s not funny. It ain’t funny. He’s just been talking about
Me for ten minutes. Moon, be alone with yourself inside a piano or whatever. You’re a piano. It’s really a metaphor for that. That spirit. That feeling of oneness. Mike makes drum machine noises. Ali says, certainly, certainly, so let me be your cousin’s barada yanni eritic minketim vir ascendant be potter up boilie berzee
Ellie then says berzee balsack debaz fumidi yemi moon it’s fulfillment mike fulfillment i got something fulfilling baby moon the sages talk about this ellie san soyleem. Um… Sen… Moon, the sages talk about this. Ali, sen… Sen soyleem. Mike, hey, you’re my man. Hey, you’re my man. Word up, man. Word up.
I recommend……nothing. I recommend nothing. Let’s see. Where did I get to? Hey, yo my man, yo my man, word up. We heard that, right? Yes. Yep. This is a piano. Ellie, this is a piano. Mike, this is a piano. Ellie, Des is a piano. Todd, why are we in it?
Ellie, Des is a piano. Mike, a piano. Ellie, a piano. Des is a piano. Mike, piano. Ellie, clapier. Todd, oh, I thought it was the men’s room. Mike, piano. Moon, piano. Ellie, Des is a piano. Mike, piano. Ellie, clapier. Todd, oh, I thought it was the men’s room. Mike, piano. Moon, piano.
Ellie, Des is a piano. Mike, piano. Ellie, clapier. Mike, piano. Ellie, clapier. Mike, piano. Mike, piano. Ali, clapier. Todd, oh I thought it was the men’s room. Mike, piano. Moon, piano. Ali, deskine computer. Mike, this ain’t a computer. Ali, that’s his kind computer. I say this off of the American vertis check.
Very staged. Let’s see. Very staged. Where was that? Very staged. Let’s see. Very staged. Where was that? Hmm. Did I lose it? This ain’t a computer. You heard that. Moon says, what I’m saying is that… What I’m saying is that… What I’m saying…
Okay, Moon. What I’m saying is that it What I’m saying… Okay, moon. What I’m saying is that it doesn’t matter how you get here. Jilly, that’s it exactly, I guess. About Tom, no, no, no, but to me all different. But I guess Tom was a human, is a human being
With feelings and sorrows and happinesses as everyone else. But Tom would only show me so much. Snork, some noise, and nose noises, and spiders. But is this a pregnant sow before me? Snork, spider. By the sound of the snork, I would guess to say, I find myself turning into a pony.
Scene 18, cold light generation. John, you know as well as I do that cold light generation depends on your state of health and energy. Spider, I’m going to turn on a cold light. Moon, don’t you get it? Todd, no, not at all. Moon, don’t you get it? Okay, Todd, not as
Okay, Todd, not as often as I’d like to. Get it. Moon, I get it. It’s weird. It’s like Mike says, oh, yo, I hear music. Ellie, music? Mike, music. Ellie, my, Ellie, music? Gross and Gil, Mike, there’s a little party going on out here. Ellie, yeah, gel a party, da
Irgen, yeah, gel a party, da irgen duo a party. Is that a verb? Mike, a party in the piano. Ellie, nah, needem piano. Mike, yeah, pee pee. Why, why, no what? A party in the piano. Ellie, nerd. Nah, Ned in piano. Mike, yeah, pee pee. Ellie, nay,
Ned in pee pee. Mike, hey, pee pee. Ellie, Ellie, nah. Red on piano, on piano is keen party. Repeat that again. Nah, med in piano, in piano is a keen party. Mike, hey listen, listen, listen. What? This is no party. In Piano there is no party.
I want to hear what you say. Itch me that hole in my zoom sack. What’s she saying, Bert? That I’m just repeating what you said. Okay. Alright. We’re doing cold light generation. John, you know as well as I do that cold light generation depends on your state of health and energy.
Spider, I’m going to turn on the cold light. Moon, don’t you get it? Todd, no, not at all. Moon, don’t you get it? I read that before, didn’t I? Todd, not as often as I’d like to. Moon, I get it. It’s weird. It’s like Mike. Yo, I hear music. Ali, music? Mike, music?
Ali, music? How’s dressing Gil? Mike says there’s a little party. All right. We’re at, we’re still in number 17. Cold light generation, number 18 rather. All right. We’re at, we’re still in number 17. Cold light generation, number 18 rather. All right. We’re at, we’re still in number 17.
Cold light generation, number 18 rather. All right. We’re at, we’re still in number 17. Cold light generation, number 18 rather. All right. We’re at, we’re still in number 17. Cold light generation, number 18 rather. All right. We’re at, we’re still in number 17. Cold light generation, number 18 rather.
All right. We’re at, we’re still in number 17. Cold light generation, number 18 rather. All right. We’re at, we’re still in number 17. Cold light generation, number 18 rather. Todd, not as often as I’d like to. I get it, it’s weird, it’s like, says Moon. Yo, I hear music, says Mike.
Music, says Ellie. Mike, music. Ellie, music? Dosingel? Mike, there’s a little party going on out here. Ellie, yeah, Jella party, Dey aze guanda a party. Mike, a party in the piano. Ali, nah, Ned in piano. Mike, yeah, pee pee. Ali, nah, Ned in pee pee.
Mike, hey, pee pee. Ali, nay, Ned in piano. On piano is kinder party Mike, hey listen Walter. Mike, hey listen, listen, listen shhh. Part scene 19, Dio Fa. The piano exterior area is now inhabited by dancers as ponies, wearing Catholic religious garments.
As ponies, wearing Catholic religious garments. The big Pope is dead. He is upside down now. And let his artistic side take over. And his wagon is being towed. The new pony pope is being adored. Dancer ponies team up to pull his splendid new wagon toward the audience. 20, scene 20.
That would be the end of that. Spider and John realize that they don’t even understand their own music. Spider says, we can get our strength up by making some music. John, that’s right. Monica, yeah, yeah. John. But the thing is, you know what? Says kid. Spider says what? John, we don’t
Even understand our own music. Spider. It doesn’t, doesn’t matter whether we understand it. At least it’ll give us strength. At least it’ll give us strength. John, I know, but maybe we could get into it more if we understood it. All right, so we’re doing, we did 20, right?
That would be the end of that? Did I get into that? Did it end with John? Maybe we could get into it more? Yeah. The code play, the code light generator, it’s about I hear the music, the party is going on, and then they’re trying to understand the music. Yeah.
They’re trying to understand the frequency. 20. That would be the end of that. Spider and John realize that they don’t even understand their own music. Spider, we can get our strength up by making some music. John, that’s right. Monica, yeah, yeah. John, but the thing is, you know what? What, says Spider?
We don’t even understand our own music. Spider, it doesn’t. Does, we don’t even understand our own music. Spider. It doesn’t. Does it matter whether we understand it? At least it’ll give us strength.
John says, I know, but maybe we could get, I know, but maybe we could get into it more if we understood it. Spider. We’d get more strength from it, we’d get more strength from it if we understood it. John, yeah, spider. No, I don’t think
So because see, I think our strength comes from our uncertainty. If we understood it, if we understood it, we’d be bored with it and then we couldn’t gather enough, and then we couldn’t gather any strength from it, and then we couldn’t gather any strength from
It. John, like if we knew about our music, one of us might talk and then that would be the end of that. John says, like if we knew about our music, one of us might talk and then that would be added on last. Two more
Points, scenes. 21, beat the reaper. With the thunderclap, various types of inexplicable social actions break out all over the piano. Each of the nine movements within this piece should alternate the focus from piano interior, region by region, and with the exterior, region by region. The
Actions should illustrate the current fetish for life extending or euthering, no. The actions should illustrate the current fetish for life extending or euthening trends, including meditation, bizarre diets, pill and algae consumption, violent aerobics, the easy glider, violent aerobics, I’ll say it again, I’ll do it last.
Violent aerobics, the easy glider, stair steppers, etc. Scene 22, Waffen spiel. Life goes on outside the piano. More rain, excitable dogs, automatic weapons, fire, traffic, building demolition, etc. The Reaper, much to the dismay of the dancers in the previous piece, that was Beat the Reaper, arrives. The Reaper arrives when the corridor slams,
When the Reaper goes into scene 22. The Reaper, much to the dismay of the dancers in the previous piece, arrives when the corridor slams to claim them. To claim the two dancers. Act two ends with a large model of a crop dusting plane spraying the audience with a toxic substance.
That’s how the play ends. I’ll read it again. It’s probably not believable. Act two ends with a large model of a crop dusting plane spraying the audience with a toxic substance. I’ll read it again. It’s probably not believable. Act two ends with a large model of a crop dusting plane. What? Audience participation.
Yes. You spray the audience with a toxic substance. Act two ends with a large model of a crop dusting, you have to imagine this little simple model I’m floating over the parking lot. Act two ends with a large model of a crop dusting plane spraying the audience with a toxic substance.
With a toxic substance. He just attacks the audience. Proves my point that you don’t like anybody. The Reaper, much to the dismay of the dancers in the previous piece arrives when the corridor slams to claim them. Act two ends with a large model of a crop dusting place,
Spraying the audience with a toxic substance. Off with their heads. It’s a very bad way to act. Dire straits of the end times. Okay, so I’m packing up this. I did it. Emerson, Lake and Palmer. Bravo. Yeah.
It’s a very, very nice, how the play is going to be finished and the pigs and the unicorns and the ionic core light generator. So I’m trying to understand the music. Let me just grab something. I love in this new age practices of violent aerobics and all types of crazy therapies.
But those were the words and then there’s music playing behind all that. That was good to hear the words and then there’s music playing behind all that. That was good to hear the words. Because we heard a couple weeks ago we just heard the music with the words, you know,
With the conversations, but now we get to see the words, so now get to hear the words. So to hear it again puts a little more emphasis because there’s different sounds that Frank has in each of those scenes. Right now what was Rocky just saying? What was Rocky just
Saying just before you made your last point there? It’s his view of the apocalypses and the exodus. While some are practicing these new age therapies and violent aerobics, there is a group trying to understand the music, the frequencies with this cold light generator. And he says,
We don’t know because if we knew everything, then it’s like the conversation stops. So that’s why maybe Ayaan doesn’t tell us everything. It’s like, um, right. It would be. Good point. Good point. So, this is Frank. He’s got cancer. Getting a little addled.
He’s trying to point to me and he comes up with things like cold light. You know, he doesn’t get it exactly right. Yes, maybe in his delirium, he sort of saw my young girl, dialogue, like he’s trying to imitate the things about the chemistry and the lights
And the negative lights and the smoke and the pigs saluting the smoke because the lion says for combustion there must be oxygen and then we don’t have oxygen so there are no more pigs saluting the smoke. Okay, so we got here iTunes. Civilization Phaze III. There it is.
What was the very last one called? Raffenspiel, four minutes. Okay, so did you, did all of my kitchen noises go over the music? Yes. A little commentary by me. I imposed my patterns on Frank’s music while the gunfire was going, I was surviving and eating and washing dishes in the kitchen.
You are so creative in this choreographic opera. Yes, pantomime. Now, we got, is that Bert? Choreographic pantomime. Hey Bert, is that you Bert? Speaking. What are you doing Bert? President Ted Barn. We thought you dropped out. No, no, no.
I had a slight upset in my personal situation just relocating from Florida to Texas, but I’m getting settled now. All right. Well, do you have anything you want to talk about? Well, I was enjoying Civilization Phaze III. Good.
Did you like my kitchen noises? Were they very loud or were they… Well, I was enjoying Civilization Phaze III. Good. Did you like my kitchen noises? Were they very loud? I didn’t. Or were they? They were muted or silenced by the gunfire. Right. So he ends with the gunfire, post-verbal, multicentral synesthesia, gunfire,
And then birds chirping. That’s how he ends his huge masterpiece. Yeah, so look at the last five sections, beginning with cold light generation. So you have that, and then you have Dio Fa, which is 19, that’s God makes. God lie. And then. God Makes. God Lies. And then God Lies.
1990, 1990 Milan soccer world. Dio Fa means God Lies. Yeah, of course, Frank, that’s what he meant. And he had a big performance planned for that. I thought it was interesting that he had the Tibetan throat singer, the Tuvan throat singer perform for that. You saw it?
Well, no, I’m just looking at the album notes. Oh, okay.
So just in the order of things, he’s got the cold light generation, then Dio-pha, which is the throat singing, then you have that would be the end of that, and then the reaper, and Wobbinspeel, which goes through the cold light, the god, that would be the end of that, and then the reaper, and then what sounds like a utopia at the end.
Well, you’ve got, I like what you’re saying there. You’ve got Coldlight Generation, Bob and Coldplay, God, the Pope collapses, the pig Pope is dead. The fucking Pope dies when we announce our Coldplay. There’s the piano exterior area. The piano exterior area is now inhabited by dancers as ponies, wearing Catholic religious garments.
The pig pope is dead. He’s upside down now, and his wagon’s being towed away. The new pony pope is being adored. Dancer ponies team up to pull his splendid new wagon toward the audience. So that’s the effect of the Coldplay announcement. And that was the end of that, end of the Pope shit.
And then a lot of people die, beat the Reaper, and then violent heroic. The people that can’t stand the Popes? Yeah, they can’t stand Bob was right. They just can’t have a world savior like me. They just say that doesn’t suit anybody’s image of a world savior.
So much, I’m the Donald Trump of world saviors. And then gunfire, the final shootout between the Turks and the Sub-Denies, and of course it ends up with the bird chirping. What is known for bird chirping? Maui, our little environment.
You hear nothing but bird chirping on the private sessions we do and sell, right? Bird chirping. So it ends right here at Topstown. That’s Zappa’s prediction that Bob wins out overall. Thank you for clarifying that. No, I like that.
It’s almost like each of these sections could be – I was looking at like Finnegans Wake. You know, each section could be a whole unto itself. Right. could be a whole unto itself, right? And then part of the movement like
Enlight 19, Disc 1, Enlight Chapter 1 or whatever has six sections in it. Negative Light, Venice Submerged, The New World Order, The Lifestyle You Deserve, creationism and he is risen. Yes, that would be a negative pH. It’s like a franken… He got close to it. Called the end light.
That should be called a negative pH. Venice is the Larusian oligarchy. LaRouche goes on and on about Venice. And the New World Order, he goes on. Yeah. The Venice oligarchy run the New World Order. I’m trying to find where that is in my notes. There it is.
Negative. D-H. Venice emerged. The New World Order. The lifestyle you deserve. Creationism. he’s risen creationism that’s us we explain the chromosome 14 and he is risen what would that be about that would be god the resident on the throne yes he is risen
Well mentions Jesus the baffled jack-in-the-box. That’s got to be the literate interpretation. Yeah. After examining the message made of his parables, he disposes of them with a holy hand grenade and leaps in the piano so that’s that’s Jesus acting out
Traumatized pissed off and it’s a money yeah that’s that’s Jesus pissed off that Bob said he’d never join his church and it paid off. I shook his hand and said I’ll never never join your church. And actually he shook my hand for saying that. He was crucified. And let go. And he threw
A grenade in gratitude. Yeah it was a holy grenade so it was basically a blessing grenade. Right. And he leaps back into visual space. It ends with him leaping into the piano. Falls back into visual space. That’s all he knows. He conquered visual space. He reigned for 2,000 years in visual space.
He’s sticking with it. It’s his game, his mythic stage. He’s staying there. And then we go into Act II, which is the rise of Bob, and Bob wins the end, and we don’t even talk about Jesus, he doesn’t even come up anymore. Are you Motorhead?
Yes, Motorhead, wonderful guy. Spent time with him. When Frank was playing with John Lennon, June 4, 1971, at the closing of the Philmore East, I was in Zappa’s backyard watching Motörhead play some game with a dope dealer, a very straight-looking dope dealer, who was actually going to go to court.
And you can see the little house I was in in the second Grand Mizzou album called Hot Rats. Came out in 1972. You can see the little room, the little cottage behind Zappa’s main house and beside the pool. That’s where I was. That’s on…
On June 4th and 5th, my father’s birthday, 1971, while Frank got ripped off by John Lennon. I was born in 71. That’s how this operation started. Operation Frank. Yes. Operation Frankness. Frankness. Frank the first. Oh yeah, Frank that’s right sorry. It
Ended up in Hustler magazine April 1984. That’s where Larry Flint laid out or his substitute laid out a big display of the props of them or us. no, thing fish. No, no, themeras, themeras. No, thing fish. No, in themeras, it’s, there’s bits of thing fish in there, isn’t there? Can’t remember.
I think it was thing fish. Yes, there was a part of ThinkFish going on there. That’s right. But where are we at with that? Did we summarize that fine enough? Is there something to say about that play, Them or Us?
Them or Us, so you covered Them or Us in one of the paydays. Yes, so you didn’t hear it. You’re behind Bert. Oh no, I’ve been keeping up but I think I probably didn’t know that’s what you were citing in that payday. Why not? Yes, that story with Rhonda and Harry and… Yes.
Rhonda. So the closer you are in France, in France, Jahosna, Sharlina. Right. Sinister Footwear 2, Truck Driver Divorce, Stevie Spankings, Baby Take Your Teeth Out, Marques’ Son’s Chicken, Planet of My Dreams, Be In My Video, Them or Us, Frogs With Dirty Little Lips, and Whipping Post. Yeah, it’s one of his worst albums.
Want to hear shit stuff from that album? Sure. Yeah? Sure. Yeah. Sure. That’s called Vemurus. Is that what it was? That’s right. Yeah. October 18, 1984. Right. Vemurus. It’s here with some cheapness. You see, it was good.
It was a lousy album because that was right when Bob Marshall was going on secret business with the Beatles. us. You see it was good it was a lousy album because that was right when Bob Marshall was going on Seacal and so we were we were sowing our oats we were
Spreading and creating our spaces in the fall of 84. So I didn’t have time to deal with Frank’s music so he put out a lot of crap shit that year, interesting but dead, or odd, or not exciting, or something else. I will play you an example of their horrible music. Let’s see.
He’s really pissed off I was making my move. I was making my move and there it is, Demarest. You’re doing your thing, man. Yes, here I’m doing my thing in France. So this is dedicated to King Frank, King Frank the first. So, not one of Frank’s better albums.
What do you think? Do you agree with me? Not one of his finer works. It was horrible. I agree. Yeah, you heard, you heard In France, Be In My Video, Planet Of My Dreams, which is from Huntington and Frogs With Dirty Little L lips. Now that’s in 84.
That’s when he puts out the weird thing fish. And that’s basically he starts going into Sinclair here. I think that’s, he’d run his course of analog music and then he went into the Synclavier here in 85. Well, it sounds like he was learning how to use it
And he was making these whatever sounds. Okay, please try to make yourself clear. What did she say, Bert? He was learning to use the, I think, clavier, so he was just making these whatever songs. Yeah, he was experimenting. He was experimenting spare He’s experimenting with the songs
Yes, yeah, but the the subject matters just Stevie spanking and truck driver divorce Yes, I guess fries are dirty little lips I think his son Amit wrote something, that’s a song for his son or a song, wrote the lyrics, or kept saying Frogs with Dirty Little Lips, he was walking around the home.
He would have been 10, 9 or 10 years old, unless he did it earlier in his life. But they do have the awesome whippin’ post. Okay? Whippin’ post ends the album with this. And this would redeem Frank. But we’re agreeing that he’s run his
Course, and he’s going to dump this stuff and go to St. Clavier. Is that what he’s going to do? Is that what you’re predicting yes well you know i was a little bit because right what about what the thirty-five in the song this is a uh… a cover of an almond brother song
And this is this is the one of the better redeeming elements of this particular album. So we should indulge. What do you think? Indulge? Sure. Oh yeah. What do you think? Indulge? Sure. Yeah. I think Frank redeemed himself with that piece. What do you think?
Yes, yes, yes. Nothing more conventional mean he just, like he does in Stairway to Heaven, he makes it completely awesome. Cosmic. He puts his own Zappa accent on any cover song, like Stairway to Heaven and Whipping Post, and there was another one we heard. What was it? What was it? What was
The other camera song? Oh yes, the little four minute… Ring of fire. Ring of fire. Oh yeah, ring of fire. Yes. Well, he’s good at it when he wants to. So, here’s the deal. Oh, somebody’s dropping off. I think Bert dropped off. So what do you suggest we do a due line,
Finish up the due line we dropped three, four months ago? Hooray. You want to do the due line? Oh, yeah. I’m game. Yeah, yeah. All right. Let’s see if Bert comes back. So, did you like that song, Roxy? Whip and Post? Zappa’s version? What? What does that mean?
Don’t use that kind of language around here. Wait, what? She’s in the piano. Don’t give me that attitude. I don’t know what you said. She’s in the piano, Jack. Wait, are you saying that that song reminds you of hippie sensibilities? I’m just indicating the type of phrases he uses. What?
I’m just indicating the type of brain test he uses, like far out and heavy. Right, but the theme is that sometimes it feels like there’s no such thing as dying. That’s an ionic emotion. And Frank is trying to arrive at that. He makes a big dramatic statement.
Sometimes it feels like there’s no such thing as dying. That’s an early, pre-ionic sentiment before you realize you can’t die. What’s that from? The composer refuses to die. Yes. What did you… Somebody… Bert or Bart said something. Yeah, what was the lyric from you just read? Uh, Whip and Post.
Okay, I’m looking at it. That’s the lyric. Look it up. Look up Whip and Post, the Allman Brothers lyrics. I think it’s about a drug overdose or something. I just read that recently. I never paid attention too much to the lyrics other than that one line.
Sometimes it feels like there’s no such thing as dying.
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