Peter Chambers is the Headteacher at Holywood Steiner School, an alternative to mainstream education that’s making a powerful impact on the lives of pupils and teachers alike.
In today’s episode, we talk about:
– How the school has doubled in budget, size and staff since 2020
– Why most people aren’t aware of alternative education in Northern Ireland
– The power of delaying “sitting at a desk” until 6-years-old
– Teaching kids how to cook three-course meals, woodworking and a second language
– Why having smaller class sizes makes a big difference
– Creating an environment where teachers can actually teach instead of constantly managing poor behaviour
– Why his pupils call teachers by their first names and don’t wear a school uniform
– His countercultural policies on screens in the classroom
– And the importance of creating an environment that encourages (and celebrates) failure.
Check it out!
https://bestofbelfast.org/stories/peter-chambers
Website: https://www.holywood-steiner.co.uk/contact
So Peter since you’ve become head teacher there’s been this great doubling there’s been a doubling of pups a doubling of your budget and not quite but almost a doubling of your staff so that’s since 2020 what has been going on in your school since then why do you
Think that doubling is taking place that’s a good question Matt um I think there’s a whole lot of things I think one um the school when I came in I knew had huge amount of potential in so many different facets not just in education but within the community and there had
Been very little marketing or promotion or links with the Department of Education even and other schools done prior to me being there um so to be able to we brought in a development manager pretty quickly after after I was there on to to get some permanent signage on
The Jill carriageway between Banger and Hollywood uh I then sat on the the review of Education panel which brought my form of Education or our form of Education to the Department of education much more directly uh and just making ourselves more public more accessible and these were a real Hidden Gem well we
Called ourselves well the school called themselves a hidden treasure at the top of Craw roaden Hollywood and I live in crawfordsburn and I didn’t even know where the school was until about 5 years ago um because it’s not on the main thoroughfare and there was no permanent
Signage in place um but I think you know ultimately when I found out about the school and I spent a little bit of time in there and realized how wonderful the culture was and what a wonderful provision the children get I thought okay I’m a parent what do I ultimately
Want here and what I ultimately want is that every parent in Northern Ireland who has young children knows that we exist they don’t have to choose us but they need to know or they should have the right to know that there’s something that’s slightly different that is massive benefits that they should maybe
Come and investigate for their own children and if they don’t like it that’s completely fine but I think parents have the right to be informed of what’s out there sure and I was talking to you off Mike there like recent Dad I’ve got a three-year-old and a
Six-month old and you know I’ve been in Northland most my life went through the education system and I only found out like three months ago that there was such a thing as alternative education Northern Ireland I just thought there was the one type of white bread and
That’s all there was and all of a sudden it’s like I didn’t know you could homeschool in North Ireland never mind you know schools like yours why do you think people don’t know about it well it’s really interesting because the we we have different families at our
School and an awful lot of the families one parent is from Northern Ireland and the other parent is from overseas so starting school at four years of age sitting at a desk in a classroom with 29 other children is quite alien to a lot of people from Europe austral Asia and North
America so they challenge the system that their child is now in because they think it’s a bit irregular because most children around the world start form an education at 6 years of age and I think then the other side of that is if both parents are from Northern Ireland you
Know we’re probably all ingrained in that 11 plus which became AQL which is now seag that’s the system that we want our children to get the best out of and I think unless you’re really involved in education you probably don’t look deeply enough about possibly trying to break or
Change that system you just want to get the best out of it right and ultimately that is if you decide your child’s going to do this test you prepare them probably with a tutor outside of their primary school education and you want the best school for them what is the
Best school that depends on individual interests and I think we’re caught up in that cycle and because there really only are two fully functioning Independent Schools so so Rockport um just down at seahill across the road from us and ourselves in Hollywood uh there’s not a plethora of private education available
In Northern Ireland and even you know there’s been prep skills um attached to post primary skills but an awful lot of those have closed over the last 5 to 10 years and that Trend seems to be continuing so tell us a little bit about your school and why it’s different than
Say the school I would went to where did you go man well I first went to Bal mcash I was born and Brad in leser which is a big reveal that the guy behind B Belfast isn’t actually from Belfast should be best at B mcash so I
Did my primary there I ended up in uh mgab primary for my leader and then I went to Wallace for my secondary very good well the reason asked that it’s good to know cuz I had 15 years in the grammar sector so it’s kind of good to
Know what your experience um was like s of a fair idea what you got out of Wallace which is an excellent school so really our school it’s not really that different but yet to the naked eye it probably looks very different but ultimately it’s a school we have school
Buildings we have a curriculum our times are pretty much the same our holidays are the same our teachers are all qualified in the same way as they would be at Wallace or macab um but I suppose the most visible differences the parents going on the website or coming to visit
Is that the children don’t wear school uniform um so they have their own identity um The Hope is that they feel very comfortable in their own skin and they don’t have to conform particularly to a shirt and a tie from you know four years of age up to 11 years of age which
Some primary schools still do which when you think about it you know you have a beautiful workspace here I bet you there’s nobody here wearing a tie you know what you beat me to it I L you just going to say isn’t it funny that we we
Train our kids still under the shirt and tie sort of office factory model but if you look around not everyone but a lot of people who are very successful who’ forged a different path they’re not wearing AE no no and the only people probably if you walk through Belfast now
Will be school children and possibly people in in the legal system and not too many others you know um yeah so there’s no school uniform which is one thing and then the second thing which is probably the biggest factor is um you can start preschool in our school which
Is 3 to four years of age and then we run a kindergarten which is kindergarten one and kindergarten 2 which is the equivalent of P1 and P2 where they don’t sit in a classroom at a desk so it’s all play based on Outdoor Learning so the
Children don’t sit in a classroom in an education environment as you as I you or I would have known when we were at school until they’re six turning seven so P3 and that’s when they begin to read and that’s when they pick up a second language also and what you then find is
That um all of the children in the year that they’re six turning seven so class one or P3 they all pick up reading very very quickly without too many hurdles or barriers or problems and I think one of the big problems that I have seen is that children who are four
Some can begin reading and pick it up wonderfully but an awful lot can’t and they have a sort of a disassociation with reading because they’re not developed enough to actually grasp a lot of the concepts so they fall out of love with it they feel they’re not very good
At it compared to their peers because they’re maybe in the fourth or the fifth reading group out of five right so to cry and just tell the parents you know most countries around the world we until we’re six just relax they will do all the precursors to numeracy and literacy
They will use learn how to cook three course meals they will learn how to knit wave they learn how to use tools they will learn a whole lot of skills to make them more resilient um as opposed to putting them into this educational environment at at four years of age if I
Um if I pay you can you teach Daniel how to cook a three course me I’m sure I’m sure D would be more than capable I’m actually just kind of learning to cook a little bit so that’s kind of where this is coming from because Matthew’s been teaching me over
Some time about how to cook some meals so yeah he’s probably just giving you the recipes that he likes actually no it’s been uh he’s been asking me what I wanted to cook and all that so I’ve just been doing basic things like oh I want
To learn to cook chicken yeah we’re on chicken wings at the minute chicken wings chicken wing very good and then I suppose the the other difference is Teachers staff go by their first name MH so again having 15 years in the grammar sector where it was Sir or Mr ch ERS you
Know it’s now it’s now Peter um which took a few days for me to get used to but it’s wonderful it’s the tone that pup use regardless of what they call you know it’s the manner and the the respect um that they show when they say that so
So those are the three big visible differences you’re not sitting at a desk till you’re six there’s no school uniform and and teachers go by their first name mhm I think you accidentally or maybe not accidentally I’m probably uh susceptible to be your target market right now cuz like I said my wife’s
German and um our family so my three-year-old her cousins are just one year ahead and so they’ve started kindergarten and they’re all in forests and jumping out of trees and not at a desk and whenever we kind of are explaining to the family it’s like yeah
You know you know our daughter she she’s going to be starting pre uh preschool of Nursery soon and this is what they do they’re a ghast they’re like what you would do that to your child you would make them sit like that like that’s not what kids do and as you say it’s
Interesting and I love talking to people on this show where it forces you to maybe think oh maybe the way that we do things isn’t the only way to do things why do you think it’s important to delay that desk type work other than what you already
Said about reading because I take your point fully we do expect our kids to almost run before they’re even crawling when it comes to reading but are there any other benefits for delaying that a little bit well look at all the models of child development in child psychology
And it all points in that direction so uh I think we’re just caught up in a system because I think you know if you ask any Primary School principal a lot of what they’re held accountable for or the CAG or what was aqe and GL previously 11 plus those
Results and the preparation that goes on to get children to certain levels even from from keystage one from P P2 P3 upwards and which has an impact on the amount of homework and the amount of test testing children are exposed to that’s a very unfortunate system and to
Be removed from that and not feel that so like no nobody in our school gets homework until they’re P6 okay because they’re in school for six and a half seven hours a day that’s a long period of time of of focus so there shouldn’t be any need now homework does come in at
A later stage to create habits for Independent Learning um but I think really what you’re trying to do between four and six years of age is you’re trying to develop self-regulation and you’re trying to give children opportunities to become really resilient and what I mean by that is they’re not
Afraid to make mistakes and they accept making mistakes is a really common part of life it can happen and probably should happen daily but it’s completely fine so what you find is in our kindergarten play area it’s particularly risque and challenging and the children are encouraged to challenge themselves
Physically and they do get the odd bumper bruise and we do with risk assessments and health and safety policies and so forth but really what you want then is and you see the children who’ve been through kindergarten who then come and sit in a class when they’re they’re six these are
The children who will constantly want to answer questions we’ll constantly want to write things down we’ll constantly make mistakes but are okay with that wow and you compare that to the children that then maybe join us because of their Primary School Journey maybe hasn’t been what they hoped who are maybe compressed
And just don’t want to make a mistake so so they’re not letting themselves go they’re not really curious they don’t have a sense of wonder for the world and that you can see a marked difference in the children who’ve been through the the play based four to six year of of age
Model in kindergarten are the ones who’ve been through the mainstream model where maybe they’ve been exposed to Assessments in groups where they’re not at the top so they feel not particularly good about themselves um so I think that’s the biggest difference and I think ultimately you know we all walked
And talked at different stages but we’re not held accountable for that or we’re not you know you walked at 9 months I walked eight months got I’m in a better walking group than you but yeah we we do that with children from such a young age but yet everybody develops at at at
Different stages and to allow the time and the freedom and not have an academic test at 11 years of age it just opens up the curriculum to try and meet what is right for individuals as opposed to get them to fit into a system that we’re
Trying to get them to pass to get to the next stage of their education I’m so compelled by the holistic model of I know we joked about it earlier with Daniel but like teaching kids how to cook you know a second language like how that sets you up for your life you know
What learning a second language does to your brain like the wiring of your brain is crazy and then the practical skills and you know every old man from Belfast has been saying this for years but it’s like you know how great would it be if if schools taught kids how to live a
Little bit more you know how to cook how to maybe fix something how to do their taxes you I mean things like that and so I love that you guys are are taking a whole education approach there it’s powerful well do you know the curriculum is 100 years old now it’s obviously
Evolved and it is is Progressive but so woodwork the children start woodwork very early on in their lower school or Primary School Journey so they will be using all natural materials and they’ll learn how to whittle how to carve they’ll be able to carve boots uh three-legged stools four-legged chairs
All these wonderful things so they’re very very handy and those are skills that I still don’t really have my wife would certainly say I don’t have that I would have loved the opportunity at school to to be able to do all of those particularly at such an impressionable
Age where children absorb so much learning and so much information and that I think you know we have a maximum of 10 children in the Woodwork room any one time and we have a phenomenal woodwork teacher he’s also a blacksmith a stone Carver basket waver does all these wonderful activities with the
Children um and it just prepares them for life outside of school and also in a world where we’re all swiping left swiping right looking for quick fixes woodwork is a subject where you need to put a bit of time and effort and overcome some barriers because it can be
Difficult but you will produce something that will last for a lifetime and that’s a really important message in a world that we live in today that with a little bit of hard work dedication some assistance and support from your teacher that you can make something that that will be there
Forever and what I like about that is it’s a physical embodiment of the work you’ve done a less weird to say that is you can actually see your work and you can look back on that over the weeks and months and maybe even years where you’re
Like hey look I remember that I remember that was really hard I remember that we corner there was really really difficult and you know Miss whatever what you don’t say miss my teacher helped me with this part my you know my my friend helped me with that but and you’re right
You know so much of what we do is not physical not tangible and the fact that you do that’s really cool what are what’s your either in school or out of school what’s your kind of thoughts on screens and screen time and you know how do you balance raising kids that are digital
Natives as they will have to be with giving them space to also be kids and not get plugged into the metrics straight away well do you know it’s a very interesting question so we’re under an umbrella body called Waldorf UK so so Waldorf is the the name of the
Curriculum and Steiner is the name of the school um but the curriculum is the absolute wonderful product that the that the school had not just our school but the two th000 schools around the world so you know we kind of follow instruction and progression through World ORF UK and we don’t really have
Any exposure to it until until the children are about 11 12 years of age and the reason for that is well there’s a couple of reasons one it’s a bit of a digital detox because we know children are getting lots of exposure to iPads and whatever else at at home of course
They are is there any real need for them to be it literate at six seven8 years of age that can come at a later stage and also and a big thing that I have noticed from my mainstream experience to where I am now is that in in the lower school so
The primary school different in the upper school where we do have it obviously but in the lower school the teachers don’t have a laptop or a computer on their desk so they are present physically present with the children for every minute that they’re with them and then admin and things that
They they’re expected to do they wouldn’t do that in the classroom in front of the children so you’re getting a present role model there all of the time and yeah we obviously do use it as the children get older but that’s why a lot of parents want to come to the
School because they don’t want you know a huge amount of it because their child maybe gets a fair amount at home now it does come with complexities because there are so many wonderful learning tools that you can use on iPads and interactive whiteboards that that we don’t currently use in the lower school
But do you know what m there’s a real there’s a real Beauty and there’s a real kind of old school feel about walking into a walor classroom and ultimately what it allows and this is pretty powerful stuff it allows children to stay as children for longer so in a
World where you have 13 14 year olds even younger than that children exposed to things that we would never have been exposed to because we wouldn’t have had the access to it and they’re not developmentally ready to to deal with that or or to even and gauge how they
Feel on that so you tend to find if you walked into a classroom in my school off let’s say year at first form which we call class six to me they would look about 10 or 11 years of age maybe even a little bit younger you know and there’s
Something wholesome and wonderful about that well I think that’s the way it should be I think kids should be kids yeah i’ I’d also like to jump in here as well cuz uh something you said earlier on uh about even teaching uh kids a different language as well like a second
Language that’s something that really spoke to me in a case because that’s something I wish I had whenever I was little cuz I think it’s easier to learn a second language whenever your parents like encourage it and talk to you in a different language and front of that and
S and hearing about like you wanting to incorporate that into kindergarten and all that the first P1 and P2 years it really does say something cuz I didn’t learn Spanish until I was in year 10 so um how about how would you go about uh teaching that great question coup kid
Yeah so so we don’t start in kindergarten German starts in class one which is P3 so six years of age and the reason it’s German was that buor schools were founded in in Germany um and it’s a huge part of the curriculum so we have a German department so like like any prep
School we have upper school teachers who specialize in subjects who then come down and take the younger children so the German teachers will come down into class one class two and they’ll have at least one lesson a week where they begin German but you know you ask the the
Question how do you do that it’s it’s the perfect age to begin a second language you know these children are beginning to obviously flourish with with reading they really get involved in their numeracy their brains are really open um to receive information to absorve it and also to to proe and be
Curious and ask questions so it’s the perfect time to to start that what I’ve always been really and we have a lot of families like this in our school and I’ve always been very envious of the families where the child or the children have one parent who speaks English as
Their first language and the other parent speaks another language as their first language and these children are obviously fluent in both and have been from a very young age and I’ve always been envious of of families like that um yeah CU both my parents are are wonderful and lovely people and I love
Them very much but they’re both from Northern Ireland I mean it’s it’s crazy CU I mean we’re in a fortunate position my wife being German she only speaks German did the kids like our three-year-old’s fluent like my three-year-old is is translating stuff for me like wrap your head around that
That’s brilliant isn’t it what an advantage oh it’s just insane and it comes so so naturally to them but it’s such a gift because it just sets them up and how’s your German my German’s pretty good so I would be conversational and I would I’ve got to the point where you
Know you your your level of Education typically only rise to the necessity no one can gossip about me or no one can slabber about me okay I’m not you don’t you don’t feel left out of conversations no no no no I can I can follow along with everything once we start getting
Into more uh complex types of discussions it would be very hard for me to articulate uh but I could understand what’s going on if that makes sense that’s good yeah but it is it’s it’s it’s a magic thing and the fact that it just comes so naturally to them is is
Crazy well the other wonderful thing that happens in our school is so you mentioned your wife being German so there’s a a huge Waldorf School in bam in in Germany so when our children get into class 9 which is year 11 or fourth form for your older listeners um our
Children have the opportunity to go would have bought them to a German school for 3 to 6 weeks so most of them will go and do an exchange now obviously the German children all speak English but they get hosted by a family and they immerse themselves in the W Warf
Curriculum in that school for 3 to six weeks and then the so our children did that in November just in the late up to Christmas and then the German children will come to us in February just after February half term um and be hosted by the families there so we will have a
Whole bunch of German students with us which again is is wonderful for the environment and the MH the educational landscape of the school yeah cuz I to your point Daniel like whenever you start learning let’s say French as I think we did in uh when we were 11 or
12 you know you’ve no interest in it you’re not great at it the way it’s taught doesn’t really work and then everyone just speaks Northern Irish French do you know what I mean it’s like come onel jel Matthew and you never quite get the you never quite get it
Whereas the kids that I’ve seen Who start really early they get it and this is probably something to do with your how you know elastic your brain is or whatever I’m sure you would well and you you hit the nail on the head there you started French at probably 11 or 12
Years of age as did I but you’ve got a preconception that you probably don’t really want to do it yeah because of the age that you are the education that you’ve had until that point and maybe the way it’s delivered or sold and where it is on your timetable within school
Children don’t think like that when they’re six or seven years of age children generally love life and really just see what’s right in front of them so yes language Time come on so it’s a wonderful opportunity and I think the longer you leave that it’s a bit like
You know music like piano lessons or singing lessons you know the later you start then I suppose the more barriers and the more compression and the more fear and anxiety there is in there as opposed to to starting with children are much younger M you mentioned earlier the way my brain internalized it
Was you try to create an environment where failure is not only accepted but celebrated we do a lot of work on the other side where people are in their 20s and their 30s in an environment like this in a very entrepreneurial world where people are trying to take risks
And they’re trying to start something new and it’s so embedded in the northern our psyche don’t take a risk don’t take you know failure is bad stay away from making mistakes if you make a mistake try to hide it don’t own up to it it’s very shameful there’s a lot of guilt how
Do you try to counteract that on the class from that young age would you I think a lot of what you said yeah I I I would agree with and I think if you speak to and I’m sure you have through your podcast you speak to a lot of
Sports stars from Northern Ireland even perhaps people who may haven’t maybe haven’t quite made it to the top level they they would a lot of those people would probably say the same thing that perhaps there was a bit of a self depreciation against themselves and a lack of belief that actually that they
Were maybe maybe good enough and I think it all comes down to school culture so do you know really in our schools and the culture before I come in was wonderful and and I hope that has continued I think it has and hopefully I’ve been able to add a little bit to
That but what I mean by that is that a walor school is all about relationships like every school should be so really you know is every child comfortable if not why not if they’re not comfortable in the classroom on the basketball court in the music room in the science lab in
The Woodwork room it is our job to make every child comfortable and if we can’t do that then we probably have failed with that child if they’re comfortable and that has to be Revisited all the time then are they given daily opportunities to be confident and to be
Successful and that could be numeracy literacy science it could be social emotional it could be behavioral um it could be some kind aesthetic or or or or hearing a that perhaps is needed because of noise issues so again it needs to be tailored to every child so what you’re
Trying to do is create an environment where children are comfortable and every day are gaining confidence and that’s a big ask and that’s that’s that’s a big task for teachers to do and the academic material is put on top of that so the foundation is those relationships and
Academia is put on top of that whereas what you’ll find in in most mainstream schools it’s it’s kind of the other way around not necessarily through the fault of the school but through the way ETI works and high schools are so accountable ETI sorry is the Education and Training inspectorate gotcha um so
Primary schools are held so accountable for academic selection at 11 and obviously post- primaries for GCS seas and a levels um and I think you know to kind of understand and realize and particularly as an independent school where you have autonomy of your finances and you can spend your money in the way
That you think is right for the children to realize that actually academic outcomes will come it’s a bit like winning a football match you’re not going to focus at the top level on the result you’re going to focus on the minute detail to get a good performance
In different aspects of the game and that should produce that result that you desire so like our GCS results we’re not not a selective School we’re not a grammar school like Wallace but 88% of our students last year get 7A start a see including English and Ma that’s incredible that’s insane it’s insane
Yeah you we’ve no academic selection we don’t do any formal academic testing till the children are 13 years of age now the teachers know where the children are but they’re not exposed to a test there’s a whole body of research to be done on this compared to where we
Currently are with testing from a very very young age you know and then so in this last exam cycle there at gcss 35% of our grades were AAR or a right those results are phenomenal and it has to come down to a couple of things one less
Children in the room so we have a maximum class size of 20 interesting yeah so we’ll not compromise on that cuz then you’re diluting the product a little bit so the children get much more individual attention than perhaps they would in in a bigger school they also have probably I would imagine stronger
Relations with their teachers because they see more of them and there are less off them and as you say they’re present they’re not on their laptop they’re not banging out their admin stuff I think there’s that and then I think there’s also the element of Um the vast majority of children who have come through the system they haven’t been exposed to testing right the way through so for example if you’re in first form year it and you’re sitting all your different Christmas exams and and you’ve done particularly maybe poorly compared to your peers and three
Or four subjects you have this self-fulfilling prophecy that you’re not good at something cuz at that particular time based on that bit of work you’re you’re maybe not BR I got 36% in physics one year I remember but what what’s to say in two or three years time as you’re
You maybe develop a little bit later than others that you might actually flourish but your your card’s marked and in your head you’ve already given up there’s a barrier there and I got funneled on Hardcore in the Arts and Humanities okay because I think early on I didn’t grasp the science stuff whereas
See now I’m actually really really interested in all that sort of stuff so it is interesting how you can kind of get pigeon hold yeah in the categories and boxes and and where that kind of leads you to and I think what’s interesting um you know you look at the
Cig Alin area which has a thing called the Dixon plan mhm um so that’s where there’s a selection takes place at 14 years of age we just had Kyle Mallen on the show he’s the principal of luren college MH and he talked a lot about that it’s really interesting yeah I know
Kyle well and he he’s done a a great job he had a very quick journey through through luran from PE right up to to his headship but that model of of you know 14 years of age you’ve given the children an additional three years they
Have more of an idea you have more of an idea uh and I’m surprised that model hasn’t gone any further than than that sort of Craig Aven area and that that small bunch of schools but I think any like primary schools in Northern Island are wonderful places and I think if if
There wasn’t the current academic selection at 11 years of age it would open up primary schools to have Forest schools to have gardening to have ecology clubs to have cookery skills all these wonderful activities that children love and all the skills that they get from not just practical confidence resilience self-awareness self assurance
Um and not be you know exposed to so many assessments before they reach 11 years of age that confidence thing is is huge is it uh another thing as well that uh you were saying about the smaller classes uh I canot I can not further agree with
It as much as I can because of the fact that uh I’m fresh out of school I’ve just done my a levels and I think the best learning experience I had was from a levels because of how small the classes were there’s probably like six
Of us in a class and all but I had the best learning experience then because not only could I build a better connection with the teacher but it was more of a free zone in the end it was uh it wasn’t you know getting easily distracted by everyone else around you
Because of how small the classes were and the fact that we all wanted to learn I don’t know it’s just it just helps smaller class it just really does help yeah I think You’ you’ve mentioned a couple of really things there you’re right you get to know the teacher much
Better but also less distractions and you know if if you can create a culture in a school where not all but the majority of children want to learn because a they’re having fun they’ve got a smile on their face um and the standard of teaching and learning is
Is of the highest order uh if you remove those distractions then you tend to have a much much better experience and I think the other thing for you then you’re talking about a levels you’ve chosen to come back to school so the people who choose to come back you hope
Are coming back for for reasons such as you did M you mentioned earlier being a a private school you can do things a little bit differently you mentioned you can spend money the way you see fit what are some of the if you compare it to say
Like a Traditional School model what are some of the weirdest and wonderful things that you’ve spent money on recently well unfortunately with the the storms and the the cold and wet weather roofs ties ties and repairs unfortunately um so well we you know we have different budgets obviously for
Various different different things and every year we’ll sit down as a senior leadership team and we’ll look at okay what is it that we want to so in our school development plan the first year of our three-year plan is we look at are we an inviting school so as every aspect
Of our school inviting the second year which is this current year are we authentic so do we do what we say we do and how do we evidence that and how do we showcase that and then next year is how Progressive a school are we so what
Is it that we want to bring in to make us more Progressive uh and to improve and an awful lot of that progression is based on finances MH so for example we’re hoping to bring in iPads for the older children um from September time 2024 so that will come at a significant
Cost so it’s important that we budget for that there are other things like for example we have a preschool um and we have a kindergarten but I would love to consider our preschool relocating in with full Forest on campus relocating into the forest in some form of wooden
Structure which would be much more outdoor based which would then open up our preschool to be an even bigger kindergarten so there are plans like that I I would also love to take away the back of one of our main buildings and build two really open big new
Classrooms so so we’ have three three schools on site we have early years preschool in kindergarten which is is a really really good building and phenomenal door play Space then we have the lower school which is a purposefully built School building that was built in the late 80s with Lottery funding which
Is pretty good lovely science labs music rooms but then we have on the site the original house which was built in the early 1900s which is a beautiful private residence but has been changed into a school which comes with its complexities so it would be lovely um to spend some
Money on making that a little bit uh more Progressive and and nicer for the children and to attract more families obviously also absolutely so so you have used uh quite a few Sports examples and metaphors throughout the conversation you have a a strong background in the
Athletic World well I was a p teacher yep yep uh and I thoroughly enjoyed that and funnily enough I I traveled around the world plan rugby for many years and never ever considered becoming a teacher but I loved coaching rugby and I realized as I got older and playing was
Becoming more difficult or more painful um I but you know I I really enjoy making people better at stuff so then I thought well we’ll we’ll try the teaching gig you know mainly to co rugby not to teach really you know it was an Avenue in and then obviously other
Things take over and and you get leadership opportunities and and it all kind of went from there and then I think as as I really enjoyed making an impact on making pupils better whether it be in the Rugby field or or in the classroom I then realized what an influence you can
Have on adults and as a principle I ultimately see my job as making sure that the adults are the best version of themselves CU they’re the people who have the impact on the children not necessarily me so my job in leadership is really to provide care and support
And challenge to the adults in my care to make them Progressive make them authentic make them inviting um to ensure that our children are getting the best version of each adult that that stands in front of them and a lot of that ties back to to sport yeah because
Basically you’re trying to achieve the same thing you’re trying to see Improvement and performance yeah and I think you know I don’t want to I don’t want to bash traditional education I don’t want to you know hop on a soup box because we’re all in a different
Environment uh but I have lots of friends as I said you before who work in teaching and I see that they are limited to becoming the best version of themselves due to constraints of the system so know they’ve got 29 kids in their class maybe they’re not getting
Support with differently abled kids in the classroom there’s a lot of stress there there’s a lot of different things that they’re having to do and that has bond to have an effect on the overall results of the kids so I’m very attracted to to your model and the way
You guys are doing things because I think it also is a better environment for teachers because every everyone who gets into teaching that I know they want to change kids’ lives it’s like nursing my wife uh comes from a nursing background same heart but you get in and the system is
So burdensome I’ll say that it can be very hard for you to actually authentically do the work in the way that you would like to I’ll put it like that I think you’re very true and having been a teacher I had a wonderful mainstream experience uh and no regrets
Whatsoever um but you you you feel every day because you can’t meet every child needs of course you can’t you say you 20 30 children in front of you you can’t meet every child’s needs that’s impossible so your expectations tend to to drop you know and sometimes you work
Towards the lowest common denominator and and you know our skill by no means is perfect but I think having less children in the room is such a big factor on being able to to meet children’s needs and so I like it a we but to like you know having a personal
Trainer compared to going to a spin class of 30 people where you’re all asked another sporting metaphor you’re all asked to turn your resistance up by to at the same time you know whereas that that would not be the case you know children obviously they’re scaffolding um there’s different targets in place
For individual children there’s different amounts of homework and that all comes with a fair bit of work but ultimately what you want is you want the children to be engaged you want them to be enthused and you want them to love coming to school and if you lose that
Very hard to get that back again so it’s trying to continually fuel that that sort of engagement and that love of being in school and and wanting to learn new things and be curious like in a world that we live in today you want curiosity you want children to have a
Sense of wonder for the world that they live in and ask questions and pro and become really involved in the the the things that matter mhh yeah uh as well as that so with this kind of case of course with the smaller classes and the fact you want school to be fun the
Teacher needs to also like have a good relationship with the student but also keep things professional so my question is how exactly would teachers kind of go about keeping professional but also making it a fun area for kids yeah it’s interesting because you know a lot of people hearing that they’ve dropped the
The mister and the misses you know it that that might be strange for a northern ARB in the process well yeah and I was that person when when I come in from the mainstream system I thought right well we’ll see how this plays out um but ultimately it comes it comes back
To culture you know it comes back to and and what I mean by culture is it’s how people treat each other so it’s how adults treat each other as role models first and foremost so you’ll never hear an adult shout in our school and you hopefully will never see an adult walk
Quickly so always we are always trying to embody calmness at all times and you tend to find that’s reflected in the majority of children so you’re consistent in your calm Behavior even though your head might be going 100 miles an hour you know you try not to
Show that and I think then what you tend to find so we have positive conduct policies we have antibullying policies like every other school of course we do but they’re very very few behavioral issues and again it has to come back to culture so the the teachers show the
Children a relatively large amount of respect and what you tend to find is that is reciprocal from the children like you’ll rarely hear a child swear and we have children right up to 17 years of age you’ll rarely hear bad language nobody drops letter I call it a
Bubble of comfort I’m not sure our skill is totally reflective of the outside world but it’s a really lovely safe place where people are kind people are empathetic and tolerant of one another and we have a whole we have people from all over the world every corner of the
Earth in our school which again I think is part of why the culture is maybe so empathetic and so understanding of of so many different people so to answer your question you know in my old grammar school you know I had a heavy role in pastoral care and most of that time was
Taken up with issues very little of my time or the Pastoral team of my skills time is taken up with with concerns or issues um and I don’t exactly know why because I don’t feel the need it’s a bit like we have really no issues with
Mobile phones so why would I go and investigate why when we have a we have a policy like every other school but there’s lots of little things that happen in the school that I think mainstream schools are trying to get to that already existed before I was there
And um these things are are really wonderful and um the fact that you know we have four teachers in school at the minute who came from mainstream and moved to us for for their own reasons and if you ask any of the four of them they will say they can just teach you
They can come in and they can just freely teach there’s not issues with classroom management or disruption the children want to be there they seem engaged they’re open to help um and they feel a bit like what you were saying but they now feel that they’re making a difference whereas in their previous
Posts they were maybe fighting fire every day and surviving you know and I think again that again has to come to like we’ve only 170 kids you know there’s schools like you went to will have you know close to over a thousand children but what government is going to
Fund a model of 15 or 20 children to a teacher probably none so that is the beauty of what you get I suppose if if if you can pay for a private education yeah Peter I am uh more than sold I might have to have a conversation with
You whenever we go off here but uh for you know the parent listening to this who the feel that’s stirring in their heart you know it’s they they’re really really resonate with what you’re saying what is the next step like how can the reach out to find out
More well yes we had we had an open week um just last week and we’ll have another one coming up soon after Easter but no you can contact the school at any time um if you go on to our website uh you can phone or via email make an
Appointment and we call them walkthroughs so you make an appointment you get to meet with me um we find out a little bit about you your family your background your children or your child and then we take you a tour of the school and that is not
Set up it’s brutally honest we go throughout the school day we’ll go into classes of the age of your child maybe younger maybe older um and just get you to experience what a typical day looks like we’ll speak to teachers we’ll speak to some students particularly some new
Students who can then give you their take on the transition that they’ve had maybe from their their previous school and then what you do is you get an application pack uh you need need to fill in an application form attach any school reports that you have from a
Previous school and then we invite you back to meet with the class teacher and the head of the lower or the upper school and then based on that meeting very informal um we have to decide if we can meet the child’s needs which more often than not we can uh and then you
Can sign up after that once you’ve paid a refundable deposit so we do have children that start at various times throughout the year particularly relocations from overseas um but I we 15 new children started in September time there so we’re on a constant trend of of numbers going up and our capacity would
Be probably be just over 200 so I would say by 2025 26 we’ll be I’d be surprised if we’re not at capacity yeah which is great yeah well look I I’m so delighted to have the chance to have this conversation no sponsorship no nothing I just I I love to point people towards
Alternative paths and people can make their own decisions cuz like as you said at the very top of the show if people don’t know they don’t have a choice and so after listen this now people know and now they actually have the power to to make a choice Ros
Do you want to hit us with the final question and then we’ll land this playing for good uh what was the question again the usual the usual end all the episodes ah that one okay uh so if you can go back in a time machine to an 18-year-old version of yourself what
Would you say it’s a good question I wasn’t expecting that that was quite some time ago do do you know it’s funny uh and actually funny you mentioned uh Kyle from luran I did listen to parts of his podcast and I think he mentioned about not being particularly academic at
School that would probably be my yeah I I didn’t I worked very hard in the sports field I worked very hard in the social side of things but I didn’t work particularly hard in the classroom because I didn’t see it as something that I was particularly passionate about
But yet I tell my children that all the time you must you must you must or you should so I think if I was going to go back yeah I would say to myself look knuckle down here you know particularly coming up to exams and I did CM exams um
Put a bit more work in put a bit more effort in because your academic profile follows you right throughout life particularly a levels I say I did okay but I could have done an awful lot better so I think I would have knuckled down and maybe worked worked a we bit
Harder yeah but still had fun well it’s all work it seemed to have worked out pretty well for you in the end Peter thank you so much for this time really appreciate it no thank you man appreciate it yeah thank you so much for listening hope you enjoyed it and
Big thank you to Leon Gibson for recommending uh getting Peter on the show really appreciate it Fab conversation I hope you guys have a good rest of your day see you later
1 Comment
After this, I see the school rapidly doubling in size again!