Detroit business owner who found parents of Oxford shooter takes stand at mother’s trial

A Detroit business owner who spotted and identified the vehicle belonging to the parents of the Oxford shooter, who were wanted at that time, takes the stand Wednesday, Jan. 31 at the trial of the shooter’s mother.

Could you raise your right hand you swear or affirm the testimony about to give is the TR to help you that yes you can be seated and then would you state the name and spell your first and last name sure

Uh name is Luke curtle l u k k i r t l e y want to is it k i r t l y k i r t l e y I want to place on the record that Mr herley doesn’t mean any disrespect he has sensitivity to his ey so given

Permission to have his to um to wear his uh hat so the jury doesn’t think he’s being disrespectful okay um may I call you Luke yes okay good morning how are you good how are you um can you tell the jury what your um occupation is what do you do for a

Living sure um I own a company called coffee house um in Detroit and so we uh you know manufacture and roast coffee in Supply coffee to restaurants hotels um and own a couple cafes as well all right and when did you start that business um so I I registered the business in about

2017 um moved into delw um I would say about two years after that in our current spot we were there since 2020 okay um just briefly what do you what do you need space for in your business what are you what are you doing in your actual um

Brick and mortar sure so uh as of current we have two spaces in the building um one space is on the first floor which is where we manufacture uh the coffee so we import it uh we bring it in on trucks we do all the roasting there um and you know packaging

Everything like that and our offices are down there as well and then on the third floor um we just have storage all right um and the address of that building is what 1111 Bel Street all right H how long have you been ATT tenant there um

So I’ve been in the current space since 2020 um maybe a year before that I was in another space on the third floor all right uh are there any conditions in your lease about what you can do um with that building in terms of what you can

Use it for definitely yeah I think there’s uh general terms and conditions that you define within the lease um you know to to my knowledge um what I’ve seen can there can you have um a business that has people um in there overnight no uh at least in my specific

Lease um you’re not allowed to sleep there at all all right um can you describe to the juror aside from the address about where that building is in Detroit sure uh so it’s generally when I when people ask me where my office is I tell them it’s right across from B is um

So you know Island in Detroit we’re about two blocks off of Jefferson which is a pretty fairly Main Road uh Jefferson and East Grand Boulevard specifically this is BBY between Lafayette and St okay um and about how many other tenants if you know approximately are in that

Building I would say in terms of leas holders maybe 10 okay um is there anything else significant about that building with regard to storage as their parking uh yeah so in general um where you know employees and tenants of the building Park are on the street uh which

Is just free open parking and then there’s two parking lots there’s uh the I don’t North or north or south or east or west but um on one side of the building there’s a parking lot which is uh gated you know you have like a little

Clicker to get in and then on the other side there’s a strip of guest parking that they identify and then the same thing kind of like a remote uh sliding gate and so who has the the the fob or the remote to get into the parking lot

Uh tenant okay um is there any in indoor parking or garage uh so there are indoor garages um there’s a couple different spots there’s one side of the building on the if we’re looking at the front of the building on the left there’s an essentially like an an empty

Part of the building that hasn’t been developed yet um that they store like a truck when they spread salt and whatnot that sits in there um and then there’s a main garage door uh which ten tenants use actively to go in and out of um for

Loading and unloading um and then on the on the first floor there’s an elevator that you can drive a car onto and go up and down through the floors okay and what would you what would be the reason you would have to you need a car

Elevator uh well so the building was um for like car manufacturing in the 20s okay um so it was there it’s the original elevator from when the building was built um but tenants like myself and um a woodworking company on the second floor we’ll use it to move cars up and

Down load onload generally all right so in addition to your coffee roasting business you you you have another hobby is that correct that’s correct all right what is that yeah so I uh I like to drive cars um so I you know I cycle through sell buy um

Cars just to enjoy and so um presumably where you’re getting at is on the third floor um you know I put cars up there every now and then we have one of the storage units as a garage door ourselves so we can pull a car in there for so at

Any given time how many cars do you have personally two or three okay uh um I want to take you back to uh November 30th of 2021 um how many cars did you own at that time if you can remember I believe two uh it might have been three but as far

As I know it wasn’t that many all right and did you have a reason um that was a Tuesday did you work that day during the day yes and about what time did you leave uh not sure exactly I you know being a business owner I work really

Random hours um so sometimes late sometimes early but generally speaking I get off around 6ish okay uh talk to me about about activity have you been there at at night past 10:00 before yeah um what is the what what’s the the the building occupied around that time do

You have people that are still in the building working very rarely um so there’s like there’s one tenant to my left um which is like they breed rare plants to my knowledge um they are intermittently there late um it’s not a pattern I would say if anything so

They’re just kind of there um and then there’s a vinyl sign company as well the owner is often there late but not I wouldn’t say he makes like a a particular habit of being there at a certain time but generally speaking when I go there uh to like switch cars around

Or anything it’s uh M okay um let’s back up the switching car things explain to the J what you mean so I um at the time I lived down the street uh more or less you know less than a mile away and where

I would park my car um I found it as a ability to park uh one of the cars there cuz it was like a nicer lower mile car because my other one had its mirror taken off um on the street that I park on so when I have a like people refer to

As like a daily driver that’s what I let sit at the building while I you know went and enjoyed my other car and then I can’t personally relate to that uh when it was time to put it away um I went and got my my worst car

Generally you know and uh went to go parked down on the street and so I I took you have a beater yes a beater exactly right you should have seen the oil that came out of that thing anyway um so yeah I had a a beer you could say

Um and then the other one was a little nicer um and I had plans to sell it so I put it at the office to avoid um you know something like that happen Okay so you decided to go take that car and and basically switch cars that’s correct and

And you did that at what time remember uh around 10 p.m. I would say Okay um did you live with anybody at the time uh my girlfriend okay so now fiance uh she’s nice but um she and she’s always like oh it’s so late just leave it it’s

Fine and but I’m just always like obsessed so I’m like oh yeah no I’m just going to switch it really quick because you didn’t want anything to happen to it correct okay so um when you went to the building around 10:00 that night what anything did you know

About Jennifer kley so obviously I was uh relatively in tune with what had happened to the school so I knew of that news um and I had heard through Facebook I saw I don’t know what or who posted it but it was some type of like um poster

You know that was like hey this is like the car this is like the situation everything like that what what is what what was on the poster the car and the license plate presumably any photos or anything like that okay so I I need you

To kind of be specific when you say the car and photos were there any people pictured in the photos um I believe so and do you know who that was um well it was the the two par okay the crumblies all right and then there’s a picture

There were pictures of cars yeah there was a picture of a it was like a stock photo of a Kia um and it was a newer Kia that I’ve never seen before so I kind of you know kind of remember that and then there was a license play as well okay

Um what did the poster say along were there any words uh yeah I mean I assume it I you know years ago at the time but I assume it would have said wanted and then additional information um about the whereabouts anything like that but just really to my knowledge you know like all

I really remember the is the car and the license okay all right so tell the jury what happened as you approached the building what’s the first thing you did you have to use the clicker yeah yeah so um I used the clicker and I don’t know

How far you want me to go U but I used the clicker uh pulled my car into the parking lot where I you know normally park my car and then at the time I noticed a car was parked in the back corner of the lot you know like tucked

Away but I didn’t really pay any mind to it we have cars you know many tenants in the building with different cars and employees leave cars every now and then uh but I feel like I’m pretty in tune with uh who keeps their cars there and just generally observant and so I saw

The car didn’t really think much of it um went inside to my office and then when I walked back out of the door that’s kind of when I was in line of side of the front of the car and that’s when okay so the car wasn’t the car was

In um was backed in or was it parked front first uh no so it was backed into the uh you know the furthest corner of the lot okay were there any other cars in the lot I don’t there may have been one car in there that wasn’t my own um

But I wasn’t sure I’m not sure if that’s it but I do know there’s one car that generally sits there was it the closest spot to the building or the or the furthest away it was the so if you’re standing in the front of the building it

Was the furthest spot you could park possible okay and um I’m sorry I I said November 30th um and I I I apologize it wasn’t November 30th I was asking did you know what happened on November 30th uh yes okay what was the day though that you went to

The um at 10:00 to switch the cars uh I’m not sure off the top of my head whatever day was it a was it a Friday I I’m not okay if I told you it was December 3rd do you have reason to believe that was incorrect not

Particularly I think I mean I remember it being very cold though so okay thank you Mr for reminding me of that um so you came back out and you saw did you say you saw the car again yeah so when I opened the door door the side door of

The building and walked out I was met more in the line of sight with the front of the car since it was back into the spot and what did you think if anything um really I just thought it looked a little familiar and it it you know rung

A bell it was the car that I saw on the poster how soon in time to the the the wanted poster as you describe it um did you see that car uh it was the same day okay all right so what did you do next

Um so I the car um but obviously it was back in so I didn’t see the plate which I thought was peculiar U just cuz it was a newer car and I hadn’t seen it before um so I pulled up on my phone the poster I found

It and U I think you’re hearing people next door oh okay Sor okay so you pulled up the poster on your phone so I found the poster um and I was doing this as I was walking to the car um and by the time I had the poster off I was I turned

My flashlight on and walked around the back of the car uh on the driver’s side to the back and then obviously put two and two together that that was the plate that was on the poster so the license plate did the license plate match what

Was on the poster yes MH okay and then what happened um and then so I so I looked over um and saw somebody sitting next to the car on a curb so there’s like a general curb um saw somebody sitting there on the on the driver’s side on the passenger side rear

Passenger side there’s like an elevated curve that you could sit on it’s probably 2T tall okay and um somebody’s sitting there um put up in like a blue plaid hoodie and I didn’t I didn’t I wasn’t like oh uh did you say anything I didn’t say anything um as you approach

The car and it’s facing you cor at the front of it um did you see any figure on on the passenger side wheel okay no it was also dark okay um was there a line of sight for instance if when you turned around and you from the back of the the

The passenger could you see in front of you or was there something obstructing that uh no it was pretty clear straight shot as to whether or not uh we would have been able to make eye contact in theory I’m not 100% positive uh just based off of like the angle of where the

Door in the car is um but I would it be um you were standing where that person was sitting would you have been able to see somebody approaching the car if I was standing then yes if I was sitting I’m not a 100% positive okay

So did that figure in the hoodie move uh no did that individual turn around and respond to your flashlight no did did that individual say anything no did you notice anything else do you know what the individual is doing no okay um um what did you do next uh turned my

Flashlight off and very calmly walked back into the building as if I didn’t see anybody why did you do that because um I assumed after connecting that it was um the plate that it was somebody uh related to the incident okay and how are you feeling in that moment uh quite

Tense I I remember specifically putting the plate two and two together it’s like that’s that’s a feeling you’ve never felt before okay um but so then I walked back into my office um and I locked all the doors and then were you afraid uh I would say

So yeah I I wasn’t aware of I mean it was a lot of emotions were going on at the time okay um is the building equipped with um a CCTV uh as far as I know they have cameras um and they’ve used them before um in other you know there was a there

Was a theft in that building okay so you are you aware where the cameras are placed generally okay I know there’s one in the parking lot that we’re talking about right now and then there’s a few in the would I would consider like the main prominade of the building inside

Okay have you had an opportunity to view that footage in the night at night no I have not okay uh it is people’s um 344 H we the defense stipulates to the admission of 344 thank you all right uh you can see on your monitor there um

We’re going to what are we looking at okay so this is um a camera from the the rear of the building I actually didn’t know that we had a camera here there’s another camera which in this there’s um that trash like kind of receptacle back there in the top right corner okay

There’s another camera there all right so um what’s up on the right corner top of the P what is that that’s a like a dumpster okay uh so like a removable dumpster and where in relation to this photo would the entrance or exit be

Right to the left of it so if you are looking generally like yeah that is the gate pull to okay so this is looking at the building uh this is this is this is on the building the camera itself looking away from building so that’s where what you just what we just pointed

To is where you would enter the parking lot correct where the clicker yes okay uhhuh and then the the actual door is uh you know to the right here yeah right right over there okay okay for the record the the time stamp is 22 minutes off it seems to be a

Running theme with all surveillance um so um that would be what time one moment isn’t this6 it’s not 1056 the stamp on the screen is 22 minutes fast than the actual time okay um we’re going to establish the time of the 911 call which might help put this

In in better perspective at some point you called 911 correct yes was it how long of a time period was it um from seeing the individual and recognizing it was the same car to calling 911 maybe a minute or two okay so your call to 911

Was around 10:43 that night okay um so um you just a few minutes before that is that correct definitely yeah I went right into my office and call them immediately okay okay so I believe that’s around 10:34 that this footage is from um but we can clear that up and um we’re going

To play that who is that if you know l i one one of them presumably um I’m I’m not 100% positive is that your car at the top uh I believe so that would make sense I all right well we’ll wait till yeah we’ll wait until I pull it in I’ll definitely

Be able to know yeah so that’s the BMW that I have okay mm um and you your spot that parking spot um is that how close to the entrance of the building is it uh it’s I’m parked right next to the door okay and the place where you saw this Kia and

We saw an individual walking towards the left um where where would that car like we can’t see it but where would it be parked in relation to this um screen so where is their car yes uh in the bottom left right there okay so at the the top

Do you see what you can you tell the Jerry what you’re doing uh going into the building looks like okay uh you can see me look over at the car too right there for the first time also just for the record I don’t know if this is my

BMW or the Volkswagen but I know I had those two at the time and they both have roof racks unfortunately okay when you enter the building then you have to go into another um door to get to your unit yeah I have to go through

Just my main office door okay so can you tell the jury what you’re doing right there so that this is where I’m uh walking over to check that plate um and what do you have in your hand my phone I’ve never seen this too and can you tell a j what you’re doing

Now uh playing it cool as they would say okay playing it sorry he said he’s he was playing it cool and what do you see there uh so this obviously I didn’t know of or see at the time but um the person that I saw going into the building look I mean

Looks like almost right after directly after yeah did you see that person when I was I must have been in my unit at that time because I did not know anybody came into the building okay did you know until now that that happened uh I did

Know um that at the I put it together that they got into the building somehow okay uh okay so um there’s a car at the top entering the the parking lot um how long did you stay in your unit um until they arrived and then I came out

Of the front of the building okay which my door the front door to my uh entrance is like right where they are basically cuz the this whole uh wall on the right side all of those are um um that’s my whole unit from basically uh I would say

The end of um the the other unit you know the artist’s unit all the way down to the corner of the building okay it might be a good time to talk about that um do you know a person um who last name is sakora yes all right how do you know

Him uh I know he’s a tenant in the building have you ever spent time talking to him are you friends no I’ve uh you know we’ve waved to each other before okay but um um more than that nothing I didn’t know anything about him and um yeah that that was the extent of

Our relationship okay and um did you ever um around this time was there anything significant about the the hallway on the first floor um was there anything left there um well so tenants will leave things every now and then um at the time there was a in the Central

Prominade which is like generally where people pull in the elevator and whatnot um there was a mattress sitting can you describe the mattress uh it was a white mattress um I think it had like an orange stripe on it uh not positive but I think it was a temper feic okay um was

That normal to have a mattress just hanging out in the okay um how long was it there um a few days maybe maybe a week um could have been there longer I know it was there long enough for somebody to put a note on it and ask if

It was like being thrown out um and if they could buy it or use it or something but somebody put a note on it at some point all right um and the when you walked back into the building that night um at some point did you notice that that mattress was no

Longer in in that prominade area uh I probably didn’t pay any particular mind to it but uh I it wasn’t there the next day you see did you notice that or that night or well I I assume I could have noticed at the time but I don’t recall

If I particularly uh remember if the mattress was there obviously my mind was on a little on something else at this point right okay um all right I’m going to play for you at some point you called 911 you said okay I’m going to play for

You the 911 call you have listened to that before yes okay it’s exhibit 345 any I’m not sure if there’s an objection to I’m sorry we stipulate to the admission of 345 thank you okay we’re going to on Friday December 3rd 2021 1043 and4 seconds pm91 111 Street 111 street street uh

Tell ex what the people who the parents of the shooter that are running away they’re here I’m not sure what your response you have to be more exactly what happed at the location going on now okay so the Oakland shooter the kid has been two parents that are on

The run right now and it says you know o count said call you and I just went to go par my car switch it around at my office I’m at my office and there was a Kia that looked like their car and I walked around and checked

UMC place and it’s their car and the woman is here next to the car the woman is where sitting next to her car in the parking lot she’s sitting next to herle on the the okay what kind of beautiful is this the 2021 Kia the black Kia SUV in the parking

Lot was anyone inside of the vehicle I don’t know you say you around the vle I want I want that to look at the license plate because I that was it’s dg3 repeat bg23 okay park to my car in parking lot I’m inside my office now and and the

Mother is sitting on the what is she wearing yeah she’s wearing a hood uh I don’t know what kind what color is that I don’t know I think it was but I her there yes okay what’s your name Luke okay in that area thank you okay yeah yeah I can’t believe it they’re

Here okay okay you to stay on like f okay all right yeah they’re here crazy people looking for okay thank you than By okay so that is the one call correct okay um and where were you when you made that call uh so I was sitting in the corner of my office which at the time uh was a great spot because it was kind of uh you know hidden away um it was were hiding

Uh more or less I just you know I really didn’t know what was going to go on so I sat in the in the back corner um where we kind of like inventory all of our green coffee unroasted coffee um which shares a wall with the unit next door um

So the art studio yes okay at the time um that was the most secure spot but obviously okay the next room over all right are there windows on your unit that look out to the parking lot on the many all right are there windows in the

Art studio that look out to the parking lot okay um how soon after you made that call did you hear uh sounds of of law enforcement uh well I saw the lights uh through the window and that’s when I came out um fiveish minutes all right um how

Many cars approached it was it wasn’t many it was like one or two all right what did you do uh I met them out there and basically gave them the lowdown um said this the car in the corner is um is the one and then I let them into the

Building and they went cuz you can only access I didn’t have my um CL obviously that was sitting in or the garage opener that was sitting in the car so opened the door for them then they went out the side door verified the plate and then a

Lot uh a lot more people showed up okay talk to me tell a about that um so maybe 5 minutes after uh they personally identified that that was the card that they were looking for I mean it must have been 20 or 30 officers at that time

Lights and Sirens oh yeah uhhuh um don’t know if the sirens are on particularly but lights are on for sure I mean people came like locked and loaded you know there were a lot of guns all right locked and loaded what does that mean to you can you describe that um every you

Know the officers who were inside of the uh the building had you know fullon rifles uh walking through the space vests yeah okay definitely do you remember what it said on their vest um no but I know US Marshals were there okay at a at some

Time and how do you know that uh because they told me all right the people you spoke to though what law enforcement agency at the first two or three cars that I assume they were okay at some point did you go back into your unit um yes definitely yeah when that night when

Was it um sometime between now and there was a time where an officer took me to like a Central Command Center area that they set up a couple blocks away um but they told me to hang out in the office sometimes um they uh you know I sat

There for a little bit I stepped outside for a little bit generally kind of like floating between outside and um okay when you were in your unit could you hear any sounds um yeah generally I can hear quite a bit I it’s just the windows you

Know the half of the walls are just Windows okay and then um the the walls it’s just two pieces of drywall no insallation so generally um you can hear that people are in the building all right and that that um evening were you did you see any searches conducted uh

Yes all right and could you were there was there one officer more than one how many were in the building if you know uh 10 okay and were they silent or were they talking no they were talking okay so they were making a lot of noise yeah

Okay and you at that time did you have any idea where uh this individual was by the car uh no I so they asked me um I didn’t think they were at all involved in entering the building or not I would have thought that they uh because they

Just asked me what I think and I was like they definitely would have taken off okay um so they had you know essentially a perimeter I was standing with an officer and he was like oh yeah you know like we’re scouting out the the surroundings and whatnot so I at the

Time if you would have asked me if they were in the building I would have told you 100% no way but you didn’t see them go anywhere NOP you just thought they would be running yeah I just I didn’t think there was a situation where they would have

Been able to access the building without the Bob I see um at some point the crumes were apprehended were you there uh I was at the command center thing that I uh described earlier at the time okay so did you observe searches just in the house or were you aware that

There were searching going on in the in the area uh no I was just a I mean I was just aware that there were searches going on in the the office building okay and did you return to your office that night uh well I had to get my car I

Don’t know if I entered my office afterwards okay do you oh wait I did walk into the office CU I was walking with um officers all right do you know if that was before or after they were apprehended that was after I was not there um during the apprehension um the

One of the officers when we were sitting at the command center was like here they go and then uh took me to the office and can did you recognize anything about either one of the individuals uh I never saw the individuals okay I only saw a

Car harle okay I appreciate that um do you remember what time you that was or when you arrived home that night late I maybe two or 3 a.m. in the morning it was a couple hours yes okay um at some point did that mattress reappear yes uh

So afterwards I don’t know if it was the same day or like you know the following day but the mattress was back into the hallway and there was a bit of tangle as to what happened with it after um somebody had placed it like in front of

The artist’s door at a time and then it got moved back to the center and kind of went back and forth cuz I I don’t know whose it was um but I assumed they didn’t want it after uh what had happened so I don’t know where it is now

Uh but it was it was generally floating around the office uh building for a couple days afterwards okay thank you L cross thank you good afternoon afternoon um my name is Shannon I’m gonna ask you some questions if I confuse you in any way or ask a bad

Question can you please let me know sure okay thank you um I just want to go back you’re a tenant in the building your business is in that building is that correct that’s correct and there are other businesses in that building yes it is not in any way shape

Or form an abandoned building that’s correct now you were testifying about how you have cars um that you store in the building is that correct is that a yes yes and I’m sorry the judge is making the court has to make a clear record of yes or no so they can’t record

Mhm but I knew okay so you have cars that you don’t want people to see um that occasionally you have over at your place of business correct that’s correct so at night if you have a nice car you actually put it into the building so that people out in

The parking lot can’t just see it out and about yes though I would say I’m very particular about my cars I would say that generally uh people don’t think like that oh but if you’re if you’re thinking like that and you want to make sure people don’t see your cars you know

If you put them in the building they’re safer that’s correct it’s in my um my unit specifically so I have a garaged unit um that pull the car into because the technically it’s still in public view uh by the other tenants if I were to just park the car and we aren’t

Allowed to park our car in this space generally um I only use it for my specific unit okay I see and on that date it’s fair to say no one asks you hey can somebody put their car in your private space in the building correct correct now you testified that when you

Saw the person out in the parking lot they were sitting outside of their car is that correct yes and when you even walked over with your flashl M that person didn’t get up and run away anything like that correct correct could you tell what that person was doing

No if I told you they were smoking cigarettes do you recall seeing that no so they stayed sitting even when they saw you with the flashlight out there that’s correct and after they saw you with the flashlight we saw in the video you went back in playing it cool correct

Yes and that person appears to have walked back into the building as well yes you weren’t aware that they walked back in the building but we can see now on the tape that that’s what happened correct and you testified that when you could see the person out by the car um

They could see they could also see you correct not particularly um there if they were sitting behind the car um like I mentioned there’s a chance they couldn’t have met direct eye contact with me coming out of the building so they may have seen you or may not have

Correct now you testified too that when this was all unfolding you put yourself in the most secure spot in your space in your tenant space correct yes you went into your office and felt like you to hide out in the most safe place you could find