Agenda items include an update on work taking place with Derby and Derbyshire councils on a revised approach to collaborative and partnership working and a report setting out the Chief Executive’s proposals to realign organisational resources to ensure the Council is adequately resourced to deal with existing and future priorities and challenges.
Also to be debated is a report on proposed changes to the Local Council Tax Support Scheme for the financial year 2024/25. There’s an update on the progress of outline plans for a statutory review of polling districts and polling places within the District and a report on a vehicle replacement programme.
View the full agenda and reports at https://democracy.derbyshiredales.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=137&MId=802
Right members can we all take our seats please right members welcome to the full Council Mee meeting of doish shadel’s District Council held in the council chamber at 6 p.m. on Thursday the 25th of January 2024 my name is Steve Wayne I’m the uh chair of the council and to my right is
The vice chair daor gret to her right is Paul Wilson then it’s David Burton who’s the Civic chair Paul Wilson’s the chief executive by the way how remiss of me and uh and at the end is councelor slack who’s the deputy chair to my left is Helen Mitchell the monitoring officer
Then there’s Jason Spencer and Lucy who’s going to be taking some notes and making sure that we’re legal and uh and that’s that I would like to open up by just saying that there are no fire drills planned and uh if we if so if there is a drill we all leave the
Building by the nearest exit list should not be used and please take a few moments of your time just to see the um notices above my head and over behind the other counselors at the back and that will enable you to get out of the building
Safely right so now we move on to apologies for absence have we got any apologies for absence please no we haven’t chair thank you so item two is public participation we’ve got one question and that comes comes from that comes from uh Nick Elliott um a resident of Matlock and I’ve got to
Just declare a personal interest in that I do attend some of the meetings of the group that he uh may wish to talk about so um right councelor bord and councel berford um both have similar so Mr ell would you like to go ahead please certainly uh thank you very much chair
For allowing me to pose this uh question briefly uh to council and I acknowledge the support that we’ve had from yourself and uh councilor’s Barefoot on this uh but the question is more really to get a relationship perhaps on a more of official uh um grounding with the district council Matlock Community Land
Trust has been established with the aim of acquiring land currently owned by the County Council to adapt the land for enhanced Community use our plans if successful will deliver approximately nine houses for affordable rent on the Brownfield site formally the car park on cabish road along with much needed off
Street parking for the area and finally an area for allotments and Recreation now even more needed after the loss of similar provision at Star homes would elected members of the council consider meeting uh Matlock Community Land Trust to explore possible Avenues of partnership working and also if possible
Financial support can I just briefly add to that chair if I can um faith in local democracy uh in matlot particularly the area of matlot that I come from sort of matlot Bank close to this area has been really damaged in recent months by the response we’ve had to uh from the County
Council in in trying to do something with this this bit of land so sort of a a partnership working arrangement any support we can get would go to heal that problem because I think it is a really sad indictment of that loss of Faith now in in local democracy in terms of our
Dealings with the with the Cy Council I hope it hasn’t escaped members notice that what we want to achieve is very much in line with with the district council’s corporate plan in line with provision of some uh affordable housing the corporate plan says we want to meet
Local needs for the present and future we hope if we acquire this land around the car parking land there be the potential to install so uh electric vehicle charging points for example which I also noticed in the cor corporate plan and the council are
Looking to uh engender a sense of a of a clean and green District well allotments what what could be more green in that respect uh replacing what is currently just neglected scrub land that be allowed allowed to become neglected in in scrub land it’s going to be a big ask
But I’m hoping that one day we see at the entrance to this area after it’s being renewed the sign that basically says Matlock Community Land Trust working in partnership with darbishire Dales and Matlock Town Council have delivered this area and it will really enhance the area for for local residents
Rather than feeling that we really being ignored in fact I’d say worse and ignored we’ve been dealt with in a rather off- respond please yeah thank you Nick for coming and uh telling us about what is happening uh up there uh this Council has worked successfully with Community
Land Trust in Bradwell anual grave we recognize the valuable contribution clts can make in the provision of affordable homes I understand the housing department and the matot Community Land Trust have already met twice and and discuss development and finance I am sure members would be Keen to encourage further engagement with the housing
Department about how we can work together in the future and I do take note of your comments about the corporate plan uh and that is true I personally cannot at this time um commit to financial implications but please keep talking to us and we will do whatever we can thank you councilor
Flitter uh we now move on to item three of the agenda which is interest do any members have any interest that they wish to disclose at this time please Council O’Brien uh yes chair item 10 um I have a family member who benefits from the discretionary housing discretionary hardship
Fund thank you very much any other counselors councelor litter yeah just on uh page 80 chair um I have a personal interest as one of the polling stations that are mentioned in the report I am a director of that building thank you very much know the
Hands in the air right I move on to item four of the agenda now which is the Chairman’s announcements I’d like to hand over to councelor David Burton thank you members I think it’s just appropriate on behalf of all of us that first of all we acknowledge uh our
Sadness in a way that councelor Mark waitman felt he had to resign as award member for Bell I have two words in front of me outstanding and respect he was an outstanding committed Ward member and great affection in Bakewell for Mark and and brought great credibility to
This Council in the manner and the way uh he served uh bakell so simply um we say thank you to mark for being a good counselor uh I am grateful to mark because he was one of the first counselors to respond to my appeal which
You’ve got in front of you tonight so it links in very well I was immensely touched when uh he came up to me and still comes up to me I can’t get him to call me David it’s Mr Burton and he said Mr Burton I want to fund you
A child now that is kindness at its height he funded me personally one child for my Civic charity so on behalf of all of us if you do look at this at any point mark we do wish you well and all the very best members uh please in April
I will be having a coffee and cake morning in two and down at the the belpa Unitarian Chapel we will be hosting a jazz and folk music night I will forward you those details nearer the time I really would value any support from you and it
Really would be from my point of view absolutely marvelous if this Council from its members and possibly one or two of the officers could throw in a tenner and that we collectively fund one child to have that experience of a holiday uh through the send a child to hook CL fund thank
You thank you councel Burton I’d like to endorse what he said about councilor waitman it was a pleasure to work with and uh very committed to his community we now move on to item five which is the minute book um we’re asked to receive these non-exempt minutes of
The Committees and I’ll just go briefly through the Committees it’s the licensing appeals Committee of the 5th of December the scrutiny Committee of the 6th of December the community environment committee meeting of the 7th of December planning committee of the 12th of December the Count’s full
Council on the 14th of December and the local plan subcommittee on the 20th of December would anybody like to move that we receive those minutes please councelor ble would anybody like to Second councilor flit will second all those in favor that receive please just keep your while we’re
Counting I think everybody no just open right anybody against and do have any abstentions thank you right so that’s carried thank you we now move on to uh questions under rule of procedure 15 these are questions from members who have given the due notice councilor flitter are you
Uh do do you wish to put your question to councilor flitter or do you just wish to okay thank you that’s answered then the next one is from uh councelor Hobson do you wish to put yours in person or are you happy to accept that it’s the
Written word i’ like to read my question please okay why is the full membership of darer Dale’s District Council being denied the opportunity to discuss the report into the independent investigation of the complaint that was sent to All counselors and why is this information only to be discussed at committee level by nine
Members Council F do you wish to verbally respond yeah thank you chair well members uh agreed the terms of reference at the jnr committee in July 2023 further to the hard work work undertaken by the Constitution working group in the terms of reference it clearly states that the business of this
Committee is to look at issues identified of significant strategic importance it also clearly states that the council business of the committee has responsibility for complaints HR and corporate governance it is therefore right and proper that this manner that this matter is looked at by the governance and resources
Committee thank you uh the next one is from can can I have my supplementary please if you want a supplementary feel free thank you our earlier speaker Mr Elliot referred to a lack of faith in local democracy this matter is of extraordinary in interest and importance to all darbishire Dale’s residents
Less than a third of all counselors less than a third of all council members will be discussing this matter does the leader believe in open and transparent governance yes or no and will he reconsider this matter thank you councilor flitter I think we’re missing the point
Here a little bit and what we’re talking about as important and relevant none of the 10 allegations were fully upheld four were partially upheld and that is essential to recognize the council must and will learn from this complaint and I have full faith in the governance and resources committee to lead on that
Improvement and it is also important that all complaints of this Council are treated equally and just because there are some outside members with extra political interest in this issue it does not mean to say that we go outside the remit of the committee that is has been
Agreed to take on this responsibility so I will not reconsider this we will go through the proper process it is open and transparent and that is for members of the council to discuss if they wish to change that in the future thank you Council V we must agree
To differ thank you both we now move on to uh the approval of the minutes for the previous meeting that being the sorry sorry I was getting ahead of myself councelor Murphy you’re at the bottom of the page here but councelor Murphy do do you want to ask your
Question I do pleas you feel free thank you very much uh in recent months there have been major concerns about drainage and flooding issues relating to planning applications presented to the planning committee for consideration Matlock and ashborne applications have come in for intensive scrutiny as two areas that suffer from
Ever increasing flooding events seven Trent water have responded to Applications stating they have capacity to handle ever greater amounts of drainage and seage demand Ward counselors have brought to the attention of members of the planning committee the reality of the seven Trent Water Systems failings uh the evidence is undeniable
The cumulative effect of all the new developments in recent years makes members wonder where is all the new infrastructure to to cope with the ever increasing demand I would like to ask uh councelor flitter in his role as leader of darad Dale’s District Council to request seven Trend attend a meeting
Meting with all councilors to explain how they process requests for further in demands on their systems the evidence in recent years makes one really question their responses to our planners I am sure councilor flitter will agree flooding is a soul destroying experience for all our residents and
There is very little as a local Authority we can do further concerns surround the site of human waste and other detrus which has been approved to make local school children ill in one example as councilors we have a duty of care for our residents and with a heavy heart we
Often have to approve applications that really have we have really have little confidence in thank you thank you councelor Murphy once again sorry for my oversight councelor flitter please yeah thank you for your question dmit um members will know that our scrutiny committee something that I press for in opposition has already set
Out its intention to look at this detail of this very issue I understand that the scrutin scrutiny committee has agreed to establish a politically equal task group to move for this work forward and correspondence to group leaders has made this to establish this new task group as
Part of that work I am more than happy to support colleagues on that task Group by writing to seven Trent requesting that they attend a meeting to give evidence I will take advice from my task group colleagues as to whether such a meeting is best served by the attendance
Of all members or whether it should form part of the planned work of this committee as councelor Murphy has a keen interest in this issue I would encourage him to have a close interest interest or at least take part in this inquiry directly thank you canc FL
Up do you wish to come back please um are we represented on that task group it hasn’t started yet right okay okay well uh I’d appreciate an opportunity to uh to join that task group if there’s an opportunity uh um you know this is not a political item
This is this affects us all and U we’ve all been talking about these issues for for two or three years now and uh I’d be very surprised if seven Trent will come along because I’ve had several meetings lined up with them and they’ve always cancel them at the 11th hour but um for
The sake of our residents I think we’ve got to try and be seen to be making an effort to change the way7 Trent uh communicate with us thank you Council just in response to that chair I can’t disagree with anything that D just said um it’s a very delicate
Issue it affects the whole of the district um and the sooner that we can get and bring to task the authorities that are in control uh it would be better for all residents um and I would urge um D to put his case forward to be part of that
Equal politic iCal task group uh so that all members can can work on that and we get a broad spectrum of views so that You’ have to take up with your leader thank you thank you one thing it’s not a question but this this uh situation we have with seven Trent I was
At a meeting recently uh with other counselors from other areas and everybody has got a problem with seven Trent it’s not just us obviously but you know I mean maybe we should speak to other authorities and Garner support from them as well thank you right thank you thank you very much
Now we will uh go on to the approval of the minutes of the previous meeting on the 14th of December has everybody had opportunity to read them and adjust them are there any points that anybody wishes to raise on them no would anybody like to move them move them chair
Move Council Burton that we receive them second by councelor bfor can we votes for all those in favor please and all those against there one and abstentions two three abstentions they duly uh they’re duly received thank you approved mean thank you uh we now move on to item eight
Which which is uh the Derby and darish strategic leadership board uh this report provides a count the council with an update on the work taking place with darbishire and darish darbishire and derby councils um I’m going to ask uh Paul Wilson the chief executive to present this report but first of all I
Will say that uh once we do move into questions I want questions and uh I want them to be concise please because we don’t want another 10:00 finish thank you thank you chairman um this report is quite a detailed report which does seek to update members on the work that has
Been taking place over the past few months in order to potentially facilitate the establishment of a new joint committee to represent all darbishire councils term the Strategic leadership board uh members have before them this evening eight recommendations within the report six of which are for this Council to note two of the
Recommendations do require uh specific consideration and approval of members to particular propositions if I could draw members attention to recommendation four uh this does require the council to nominate representation to the Strategic leadership board should this report be approved this evening um there is the expectation that the council
Representative should be the leader of the council so that is the recommendation that I put forward but there is also a requirement for Council to nominate a substitute and that’s for Council to determine uh this evening in terms of the background and context uh to this clearly as we are moving towards
The establishment of an East Midlands at Marl combined Authority there is a need to ensure that all darbishire districts are properly represented through the appropriate mechanisms that will exist in order to support uh that combined Authority uh during the past few months there has been uh various reviews undertaken of the existing governance
Structures principally around the vision darsha concept which this Council uh agreed to join back in 2019 uh a review of that uh joint committee has taken place and members can see in the report the outcomes of that particular review I think it’s fair to say that whilst Vision arire did
Deliver some benefits it certainly didn’t deliver on the scale originally expected and that was partly due to the fact that not all councils felt able to actually join into those particular Arrangements in terms of other joint Arrangements that have existed uh since 2013 this Council has participated in the Joint Committee for economic
Prosperity that has been a very productive Joint Committee for this Council in order that we can drive forward many of our Economic Development initiatives and secure partnership agreement to delivering on the council’s corporate Ambitions in those particular areas so the report really seeks to um bring the
Best of those two joint committees into one uh common structure and that’s where the Strategic leadership board is really um based and and is looking to to to take forward forward um the concept is is very much on the same basis of a joint committee with all representation
Uh being from councils who are prepared to participate in those arrangements and the functions of that joint committee are exactly the same functions which this Council currently um discusses through the uh the joint committees that have existed since 2013 and and 2019 I think the important thing to bear
In mind is that as with the meril combined Authority Arrangements um it is for this Council to determine any additional items that it wishes to put into the remit of that strategic leadership board of established and the district council retains full sovereignty over all its existing services and responsibilities um that is clearly
Something that we are very precious about and all daire councils maintain that particular uh position in terms of the terms of reference for the Strategic leadership board these have been formulated very much on the basis of the previous Vision darish arrangements and the arrangements for the economic Prosperity committee
They have been considered by all the monitoring officers representative of all the district councils in darbishire including darish City and also darbishire County Council and the draft that’s before you this evening is the very first draft it is likely that items of this may well change and if there are
Significant changes made they will be brought back for members uh attention and endorsement as necessary all councils in darbishire being to take a report of this nature through their decision-making structures darel is the first uh given uh the meeting cycle that we have but over the next two months all councils will be
Taking a similar report in the intention is that um the the first meeting of agreed of the Strategic leadership board would take place in March or April of this year prior to the meril combined elections taking place uh in May I’m happy for the rest of the report
To to be taken as read chair there is a section in there in terms of delivery arrangements and resources I would just like to draw members attention to paragraph 3.29 uh members will recall that this council did make a financial commitment to Vision darbishire that Financial resource was not utilized through the
Work of vision Dar and therefore the council will be receiving a refund of just over £52,000 um which reflects the contribution we made at the time I have to take any questions chair thank you councilor questions please thank you chair and I I note your your comment about keeping them short
And your comment to me before the meeting about keeping my question short so I’ll do that um taking um Paul um thank you for that introduction um and also the comments about the scope of the Strategic board and the possibility of other things being added to that scope
Um the areas of responsibility include transport quite rightly but do not include other infrastructure particularly sewage and drainage and picking up on dermot’s point uh they don’t include electricity distribution and don’t include telecommunications we are all aware of flooding arising from sewage overflowing into streets Gardens and houses and
Fluvial flooding which is increasingly impacting many areas of darbishire I believe we are all aware also of the prospective increased demand for electricity as it substitutes for gas in domestic and business applications and the necessity of excellent ubiquitous telecommunications particularly mobile broadband for the internet of things that is already embracing agriculture
Utilities transport and finance electricity and Telecommunications are planned at a regional and and also uh drainage infrastructures planned at a a regional National and international level could you comment on how the mayal authority and the D2 board will influence decision making in these areas Mr Wilson yes thank thank you
Chair um I think it’s fair to say that a lot of the detail around those types of issues is still to be worked up and and the Strategic leadership board has been formulated very much on the basis of the existing scope of the economic Prosperity committee plus uh the actual
Detailed asks that were included within the Devolution deal but I think it’s fair to say that there is a very strong ambition to progress those areas into many of the areas that you’ve raised there Council Hughes in terms of exerting influence with the relevant bodies to try and make sure that
Investment decisions are taken that infrastructure is improved and I’m very happy to take those points back and feed those in to the deliberations which we’ve been asked to do as we move forward thank you very much uh on I’ll just take one other one other point
Really um and that is on the on our ability to influence D2 the uh the mayal authority and the uh and perhaps delu as well and in we we’re putting another layer of um Committee in between us and the mayoral Authority which means that we will have darisha Dales will have to
Go through this committee to to get it in input into the into the mayal authority and uh and then we’ll have to go through this committee duu uh and duu sorry and uh the mayoral authority to get into duu can have you been have you thought about how we might maintain our current
Pretty good influence on D in evidenced by the um the funding that we’ve got leveling up funding we’ve got another funding that we’ve achieved over the last uh 18 months two years thank you through you chair um absolutely that Arrangement would need to exist in terms of feeding through strategic leadership
Board um clearly at the moment there is the potential that we feed through two other joint committees under the existing Arrangements of vision darsh and the economic Prosperity which is what we’re trying to condense um but you’re absolutely right there would be need to to go through that and I think
The important thing is that um you know whilst this District Council may not have a seat around the table of the the mayor will combined Authority I think having a seat around this particular table would allow the leader and and the substitute to actually exert the
Influence and try and get the best deal for this Authority which every other District in in Dar will seek to do likewise but I think outside of the uh the governance structures you’re absolutely right we have been very successful in Ling d direct with dlook and through our economic regeneration
Team and the resources that the council has put in to that team of late we’re certainly better equipped to do that and continue with that particular initiative so even though we may not always go through the maral combined authorities in order to get what we want that Avenue
To D look certainly exist and will continue to exploit all opportunities all right thank you very much one with permission one final short question is it councelor h it’s about planning um and I note that there is a planning function involved in in the Strategic board as well um and how does that
Influence our ability to De develop a local plan for ourselves and also will the um will the Peak Park planning Authority be on the committee uh separately um and able to influence the work of the um under planning in in terms of our local plan preparation that is not a responsibility
Which would be seeded uh to the combined Authority or strategic leadership board and there is a discussion still to be had in terms of Peak Park representation on these structures thank councelor use councel O’Brien questions please yes thank you chair questions relate to paragraphs 311 and 322 in the
Report uh paragraph 311 uh says that um constituent authorities will be encouraged to delegate functions to uh this new board so my first question is can you give examples of which functions you would suggest that this Council might consider delegating to the to the board and in relation to paragraph 322 this States
Clearly that um constituent authorities will only have vot voting rights if they delegate Functions this suggests to me that unless we delegate functions we we will have no voting rights and therefore have very limited influence on the board and also says to me that if no authorities delegate any functions then the board is uh is a worthless exercise would you like to to comment on
Those two questions yes thank you chair um in terms of the functions to be delegated they’re no different to the to the functions that we currently delegate through the economic prosperity committee and that is principally in around to uh joint work on uh the business rates pooling and the
Distribution of that there are certain elements of our Economic Development work which we do in collaboration with the County Council and also through the D2 and2 structures um but any other struct any other sorry responsibilities that we would want to delegate could only be done so through the approval of
This Council so at the moment it’s very much focused around the economic regeneration agendas which is already addressed through uh the EPC there is nothing in addition to that which we’re currently proposing to delegate and in relation to voting rights that’s we formally agree to delegate correct and if we don’t
Formally agree to delegate functions we have no V voting rights that’s correct in terms of the draft terms of reference councelor Slack thank you thank you chair um we already know that we’ve get we’ve got one member each on all the district B councils on the doish local Street plan but um the
Combined Authority there’s only two members from all the districts and and and uh in darbishire and the buroughs in darbishire we are to and I believe darbishire Dales hasn’t got a member on the combined Authority uh same as uh councelor the council’s already councel Brian’s put a
Number of points where we are at a deficit with the combined Authority is there any chance that through the uh uh Delux that we can uh force uh the combined authorities to increase on burrow and District councilors so for more representation uh through you chair no you can’t exert any influence on that
Because the actual membership of the command Authority has been setting legislation now in terms of who the representative should be one of the functions of the Strategic leadership board if established is that they would actually determine who the representatives from darbishire districts and burs should be so you’re absolutely right Council slack
In terms of the current um Arrangements which are being put in place uh in the run-up to the elections there are two Representatives the leader of high peak bur Council and the leader of Chesterfield buau Council but it will be for the districts on the SLB to determin
Representation in the future and the uh the the intention is that those nominations will be made on an annual basis thank you councelor Shelly question please thank you um through you chair um just a follow up to councelor O’Brien’s question there about um the implications of section
3.22 do do I understand this right then that um although the council has already delegated some functions to this body um in the form of economic regeneration um does that mean that we do or do not have voting rights on it so those are those are already functions
Which have been delegated so does that mean we’ve automatically got voting rights or not if the council chooses to agree to this uh report this evening and becomes a member of the SRB then yes you’ll continue to have voting rights I think use of the term functions can be a bit
Misleading because it’s more areas of joint working influence collaboration it’s not specific functions as you may understand them to be in terms of a uh delivery of a service for example but it is very much around the remit of how can we maximize resources that come into the
Um to the combined Authority ultimately or through the existing governance structures that we have for the benefit of both individual districts and darbishire so I’ll give the example of economic regeneration because that’s the most significant area of activity which this Council has participated in and we’ve benefited from um there may well
Be others in the future but as I say that will be for the council to determine Council FL a question yes chair um I wasn’t going to say anything at this point but um some clarification really from from Paul um because there’s been a question raised about uh voting rights it was my
Understanding and I may have got it wrong uh but it was my understanding that you would not get to you would only not get a vote if you were discussing an issue that say if if you delegated a function and there’s a particular topic and you hadn’t uh
Delegated functions to that then you would not get a vote but you would get a vote on other issues that didn’t directly affect that do you see where I’m coming from um and I I think that’s there’s a bit of misunderstanding there because it’s not that we wouldn’t get a
Vote anywhere along the line we would get to vote on those issues where it was concerning a particular subject yeah if I can refer members to appendix 2 and paragraph 4.3 that sets out the circumstances and the final sentence uh does State there no Authority will be entitled to vote on
The matter to which they have not formly delegated to the SLB so as I say the functions that we have delegated on the existing structures will continue to be delegated andless Council should deem otherwise um and in that case Dar shels would have a vote on those
Matters thank you councelor OB do you have a question it was the same as Council fs and it’s sort of been answered thank you thank you any more questions councelor G thank you very much i’ I’d just like to make a general statement and a question to Paul
Because I’m really I’ve always been in favor of this uh Devolution aspect because I think the point of it is to bring more strength and power to the whole East Midland region and darbishire and Nottinghamshire and and one of the sort of barriers against it is the sort
Of squabbling among smaller councils so what we want in the future and this is why Devolution hasn’t worked up to now in the United Kingdom is that we need to give more power to our area and you know we need to sit back and let the inward
Investment come into us and you know the vote we’re going to get is in May when we vote for a new mayor but the point is is that d evolution is good for darbishire and Nottinghamshire I remember speaking to leis Rose a few several years ago and he was in favor of
It while I was on Amber Valley bah Council I was in favor of it completely and I think we’ve always been standoffish but I think it’s going to be good for the whole region and it’s going to be good for all the young people growing up now because they’re going to
Have more money coming into this area and we need to be positive about it have you got a question uh councilor no all right thank you if there are no more questions um can we move into uh we’ve got actually before we move into debate we’ve got eight recommendations on here
Um which I’m presume you’ve all read and some we’ve discussed now so does anybody wish to move the recommendations as listed councelor dobs I’m happy to move them and I’ll speak if I can find a second up Council can I just raise an issue that uh part of it was to identify a
Substitute and a deputy has anybody wish to nominate anybody to do that councelor flitter yes J I’d like to nominate councelor Peter slack is that seconded please councelor butle so we we have approved the eight recommendations well we’ve we’ve got the recommendations um moved and seconded with the implementation of councilor
Slack as the deputy we’ll move into debate so does anybody wish to ask any further questions or even debate the matter thank you Council dobs chair if I can introduce it since I moved it um I think whatever our thoughts about the East Midlands combined County Authority it
Seems that this is the hand that we’ve been dealt and I don’t think it would be in our residents interests if we refuseed to engage so taking that as a starting point um clearly um six of these items are just for noting um we’re not going
To be able to influence them and we’ve got um two uh other bits that we have to approve um it makes perfect sense to me um if these um two bodies are merged into one The Joint um economic prosperity and the vision darish joint committee it does seem to make perfect
Sense and clearly if we want anybody to be uh representing us allbe it indirectly on the uh in East Midlands combin county Authority um we’ll need a this group of people to do the electing so I think that um this has been sought through to some extent I’m advised that
A lot of the stuff is going to show some evolution in terms of the terms of reference uh but this is a suitable starting point and I certainly uh commend the uh our leader Steve litter and his substitute Peter slack to uh be the uh Representatives on the uh D2 SLB
As we’ll hopefully all call it in the future and uh I would like to move this thank you chair Council botle thank you thank you Yeah it’s a curious on this because are we are we putting forward named people to be our Representatives or are we putting forward people who hold a an internal title like leader of the liberal Democrats or leader of Labor uh or is it a deputy leader we’re putting through I’m quite curious to
What happens if uh one of our leaders decides to stand down do they stay as our representative are they stuck at that in that job forever I’m just curious to know how we’re actually going to run this I don’t obviously I’m I’m not in it to win it or
Anything so I’m just curious to see how it goes so we move from questions but we’ll get some clarity from Mr Wilson thank you yes chair um once agreed this matter would be considered the annual meeting whereby we point to outside bodies councilor flit thank you chair I just wondered where we
Were going with that question I did consult with counil Council microphone can you sorry to interrupt you microphone yeah um that’s unusual you can’t hear me yeah I wondered where we were going with that because I did uh consult counselor butle uh on this issue because
Um there are some uh talk about whether it’s leader of the council or whether it should be my Deputy as a liberal Democrat uh to take to that meeting um and it was the deputy leader of the council and since as I was two of them I
Did consult and it was agreed that uh councelor slack um was to be the nomination um i’ I’d just like to say that um not participating in this no matter how we feel is really not an option um I have concerns as other members have concerns about the decision
Making the political relationships the speed of changes what changes can be made by the incoming mayor um all these proposals we just don’t know anything about yet and we don’t know how they’ll change and you’ve seen the terms of reference well they could change three times over the next few weeks
Uh as things progress but page 51 the report gives five strong guidelines around leadership accountability governance flexibility consensuous uh decision making and and that’s important the detail definitely come in at a later stage but I just to answer a question uh that Council Hughes asked earlier on um
About uh the uh the flooding and surage I would have taken that to be part of the planning and housing uh structure and if it isn’t we’ll certainly make representation that that is included and there’s a wide range I mean you’ve just got the names of the topics of where
We’re going with with uh the working groups uh but we don’t know the detail yet that’s not being worked out and that’s where we shall want some real input and I have to be honest that this is a new baby to everybody we shall need some support I shall hopefully be
Building a small team around me so that we can get our representation made across and I see that our consultation with do look is still as strong now as it will be because it won’t affect us making our direct implications and and and Communications we shall still have
That rail of thought running straight through but our major functions it is known that if you get a stronger team together then you get better um and more influence uh to decisions making at a higher level nine out of 10 times to turn around say thank you very much and
Do know more about it I’m hoping that this organization will now our teeth and like Council Jus said I’m very skeptical but I’m hoping that it is right that it will bring benefit to the dades and that is the main thing first and foremost it’s darbishire Dales darbishire is
Second we’ve got to fight our own Corner we’ve got to make sure we get our representation and we’ve got to put our policies through and that can that can be done by working together as a council thank you chair thank you Council for Council Hughes thank you chair
Um like uh Council councelor fitter I’m somewhat skeptical about uh Regional de Regional development organizations I believe through this is the third iteration of the East Midlands Regional development board as it was in the in the 1980s perhaps and then we get D2 N2 and now we’ve got a maral Authority I’ve
Feel that the first two are complete failures I hope the uh I hope the maral authority is more successful and and um perhaps emulates what’s happening in Manchester and Birmingham and London which do seem to be very successful at getting further funds from government unlike the regional development agencies
And there and their successors which were very poor at that and were riddled with corruption so uh I hope that the decision as councilor flit says the decision- making in the barel authority is more transparent than was than happened in those organizations which weren’t democratically um found Ed but were were really um
Bureaucracies uh that were self- sustaining and didn’t really provide much benefit to the regions for which they were supposed to support I would recognize that whatever maral Authority we have it depends on national funding and we and we in the East Midlands like other areas of the country outside the
Southeast and London fail when it comes to uh funding from infrastructure from from central government hs2 is a disaster there was a program on the BBC yesterday about uh about the uh the uh investment in rail uh Freight Freight transport by rail uh that was going to
Make make use of the uh existing rail infrastructure once the once the Western link on hs2 had been developed billions of private sector funding went in has gone into developing terminals for that for for moving Freight on the west side of the country and now that is at risk
Because of the failure of this government to continue to invest in hs2 so can we um if you look at the the financial times has a has an article called the big read on Birmingham and in that article it shows that um if you look at GDP per capita GDP per worker in
Different cities in the UK London is 30% GDP per worker is 30% higher than the national average Manchester is about uh 8% % lower B Le Birmingham Liverpool and leads are worse than that fortunately we live in a in a uh near to a a great City
Derby and that August body The Daily Mail reported this week that Darby is one of the few cities in the UK which shows that the household incomes have actually risen since 2010 uh and I hope that I I believe that was probably uh the contribution of the Aerospace industry around Derby the
Another high-tech industry around Derby that has allowed us that to happen and I think through this de through this maral Authority we can get we can lever leverage what is happening in Derby and what happens in Nottingham to our benefit if we if we play our cards right
So in that respect I I do fully support what we’re doing now um and I will be voting for this particular board but I do I do feel that we are reliant on national government and I and I’m looking forward to a change in national government that will provide better
Funding for areas outside the southeast of England and and London where basically it’s the finance sector that has benefited and every other sector has fallen behind thank you thank you counc O’Brien yes thank you chair um I go a little bit further than being skeptical about uh about this
Proposal um but first I want to say that uh Paul Wilson assures us that we shouldn’t worry too much about functions but I look at the three six seven areas which this new board is going to cover economic growth employment and skills health and communities public service reform transport climate change plan uh
Planning and housing now they’re quite specific to me and what it what it says is we’ve got seven uh talking Shops going to be established and we’re expected to be part of those but unless we delegate any functions we will have no no voting
Rights so we could be part of a a group talking about planning and housing which is of interest to us but unless we delegate planning and housing we have we have no no right to vote on the outcome and I also think there won’t be a single other authority who will delegate
Anything about planning and housing and therefore there would be a group with none of whom members have any voting rights so I think from a practical point of view um much of this is just going to be a talking shop to which won’t constitutionally be able to achieve
Anything but why do I why am I more than skeptical first of all because we we’ve got a new organization which is totally democratically unaccountable to anyone and Democratic accountability is a Cornerstone of what I think we’re all about uh I think it’s a it’s an absurd
Step into the future where we move from um an an Administration which is which is dedicated to openness and accountability to one in into uh opaqueness now I would also point out that this this proposal seems to me to show a complete lack of trust in the new mayor of combined
Authority now at the very least least we have the opportunity to elect a a directly elect a mayor and and that mayor is accountable to the citizens of norshire and darbishire this strategic leadership board is accountable to No One um I was looking forward as a constituent or or whatever it is a
Associate member of the maral combined authority to working with authorities across darbishire and Nottinghamshire and that would mean working in partnership with authorities in Nottingham show who share similar concerns to us what I find is now establishing a block a darbishire block and no doubt Nottinghamshire will establish a Nottinghamshire
Block so rather than us have a a relationship with the Marl combined Authority where we work collectively across Nottingham darbishire we’re not we’ve got a single darbishire block and I agree with the Point councelor Hughes made earlier this is a a layer of administrative bureaucracy which prevents us from having our engagement
With a meral combined Authority and I don’t think I I just don’t think that reflects what the expectation was from this Council and I’m sure many other councils when they agreed to participate with the the mayor of combined Authority so I I I simply see no benefit whatsoever and a lot of
Disbenefits when we want to have um discussions and no negotiations with the the new mayor and the new new mayor combined Authority we weren’t we’re not allowed to we w we have to walk work through this new uh darisha block rather than um participating directly I would
Have thought to be honest that the the the mayor or combined author it and the new mayor she is going to want to set up a series of um Arrangements very similar to those which is being proposed here you know this this this is exactly
The model that the new the new mayor of combined authori is going to want to set up so we’re now going to have we’re likely to have three three sets of of uh a Nottinghamshire a darbishire and a Nottingham and darbishire set of Arrangements which all going to
Duplicate each other and we we’ll be falling over ourselves so of course we should have a we should we should have a seat at this board but I think it’s an absolute absurd animal to recreate thank you councelor slack uh thank you chair um I do agree with councelor us and councelor O’Brien
On many of the issues raised it’s very very undemocratic really to to it’s taking democracy away from the people and but away from the voters having a uh controlling that much and a combined Authority uh but saying all that I agree with what they’ve said but we are where
We are and we have to accept where we are and uh we have to do the best where we are so I think um it probably a perspective new government coming in as promised that more funds will come from central government from the center which uh counc users referred to as a great
Big and massive amount of wealth in in London some of that wealth will be distributed out through the country into areas of uh into combined Authority areas so there might be a little glimmer of O for an improvement in those areas and as Council G has already said
Investment in in those areas probably will increase and hopefully uh will increase so there is a glimmer of V but uh democracy is being eroded here and it’s not good it’s not good at all we are a democratic system and we should remain a democratic system but again we
Are where we are we have to work with what we’ve got so uh and do the best Manchester’s managed to do the best in other cities so uh when the money does flow out from government which the new government prospective government will uh do uh we will get probably more money and get
More achievements for our more wealth for our areas so we’ve got to try and do our very best in the circumstances we find ourselves thank you chair thank you councilor slack well I think that’s the end of the debate I can’t see anybody else nobody else on my list so it’s been
Moved and it’s been seconded um that we note and approve the eight recommendations with the addition of council slack acting as the deputy can I have all those in favor of approval please raise your hands we got everybody against please that’s not and abstentions please right I calculate that motion is
Therefore carried thank you we now move on to item nine on the agenda which is the structural changes of the organization and establishment again it’s uh Mr Wilson who’s going to lead us through this one thank you Paul yes thank you chairman as uh as head of
Paid service it is my responsibility to inform Council of the Staffing Resources required to discharge the functions of the authority and it’s also my responsibility to reflect upon the ambition of the council and advise whether we have the necessary resources in place to deliver on those Collective Ambitions um
If I may refer members back to the work that the council commissioned and were briefed on in September 23 from circling squares that looked at a comprehensive package of measures in order to address um many of the uh issues uh that we have in terms of resource allocation prioritization and corporate capacity
And they are laid out in in paragraph 1.3 uh of the report one of the key recommendations that came from the circling squares work was that the organization lacks strategic capacity and members may recall one of the recommendations was that that needed to be addressed in order to ensure that the
Council was best place to deliver on the Ambitions and the recommendation was that that could be addressed by the creation of a post of strategic director uh members will recall this is an issue I’ve Revisited on a number of occasions and whil there is still a cogent case
For that type of position I’m very mindful of the financial challenges that this Authority faces over the next 12 to 18 months and therefore don’t feel able to put that forward for consideration at this moment in time but I won’t don’t want members to lose sight of that issue
Because it does have an impact on our corporate ability to deliver on many of the things that members want us to move forward with in considering the findings of the the circling squares report an opportunity has clearly presented itself through the retirement of the director of regulatory services from the 1st of
April and in that regard alongside CLT colleagues and members of uh that particular Department I have engaged extensively on proposals for looking at how the council’s functions can be better realigned to deliver the the new Ambitions of the corporate plan and how we can actually try and ensure that
There is better alignment not just within a department but also across the organization as a whole clearly one of the main aims of the corporate plan which members uh approved in December was very much emphasizing the need to build flourishing sustainable communities uh a very strong focus on place and business
And housing policies and economic development plans and clearly that aligns uh very well to the play shaping agenda that the council is setting the proposals I’ve outlined in the report uh 2.4 is to effectively merge two departments into one so the proposal is to disestablish upon the retirement of
The current director of regulatory services that particular department but also uh the director um sorry the the department of policy and regeneration there would be merged together and I’m proposing that we would create a new directorate of place and economy within that we would actually look to take some of the functions from
The existing Department uh principally we would look to merge uh the de Vel mment management functions back with planning policy Economic Development and regeneration that would enable the council to very much ensure that there is much closer alignment with that place agenda in terms of building sustainable uh development sustainable communities
Uh and Al like however uh in moving that particular function there are a number of functions which in themselves do not justify the retention of a separate Department they’re listed at 2.5 of the report members can see within that section uh the proposed amendments that I’m suggesting in terms of where those
Functions should sit uh moving forward in terms of other uh capacity issues the retirement of a director does clearly release some resources within the authority and I’m proposing that we retain those in order to address some of the acknowledged capacity weaknesses that currently exist there are a number
Of areas which the council does need to focus upon these are outlined within the subsections of the report if I can take the first one in terms of corporate performance and project delivery again this was an area highlighted by circling squares as needing uh further resource
And capacity in order to deliver on the corporate projects and ensure that there is closer alignment and paragraph 2.9 sets out the type of areas that that resource uh would be utilized for um I haven’t put forward a clear proposal on this issue because I do um want to
Discuss this further with CLT colleagues to get their ideas in terms of how that particular issue may be addressed rest um we clearly have skill sets within the organization at the moment and there may well be a strong case to actually align some of those into this particular area
As supplemented as necessary the second area is Corporate health and safety um I think it’s fair to say that the current director of regulatory Services has played a very significant role in uh corporate health and safety in terms of coordination of our functions and our legal responsibilities once uh that postolder
Retires from the council that knowledge does exist anywhere else in the organization clearly we have a legal responsibility to make sure that we operate within the health and safety legislation and I have made approaches to other darbishire authorities in this regard and there’s a very strong expression of interest that I’ve
Received from Bova and Northeast arire councils who have a dedicated team who are very well regarded in the county in this particular area and we have already established um made arrangements to meet with them to discuss a potential uh shared service arrangement on that particular issue development management is the
Third area uh clearly development management is a very high profile service the council delivers it’s a service which is under significant pressure at the moment it’s also a service where we are carrying a number of vacancies which are proven extremely challenging to recruit to um that is reflective of a national shortage of
Qualified planners and particularly uh does refer back to many of the issues I brought to members attention back in September regarding terms and conditions salary scales and so on and so forth however not withstanding there is an opportunity to look at that with the potential merger into the new place
Directorate and we’re proposing to make some changes which outlined at 2.17 of the report uh I do want to draw members attention to the fact that clearly there is an ambition from the progressive Alliance to improve performance on planning but also improve performance on planning enforcement so part part of these recommendations does
Look to increase uh marginally planning enforcement resources but more significantly to create a dedicated uh planning enforcement team leader that’s not a post we’ve previously had and I feel that with that level of expertise we’ll be able to deliver on the alliance’s uh ambition in that particular
Regard the costs of these proposals are outlined in the following sections of the report I do make reference to the fact that there has been a national increase in planning fees which which came into effect at the beginning of December there’s a very strong indication from government that they
Expect those Monies to be utilized to support planning Services um that is effectively what this report seeks to address I’m happy to take any questions chair thank you Council O’Brien you were first thank you yes thank you chair a couple of questions Paul uh you you referred in your in your report
There to the uh vacant post I think it’s corporate director is it you have I can’t remember the precise total but the the the um the reference to the the vacant corporate post first question is can you confirm that that funding for that post remains in place within the revenue
Budget uh now my second question relates to the clear recommendation in the circling squares report which I think I think we all endorsed uh as members that there is an urgent need to reinforce the Strategic capacity uh within the authority at uh a corporate level because there was uh shall we say
Um often confusion at uh current um management level between strategic and delivery issues um can you can you tell me that you’re certain that by merging two Uh current services and two yeah two Services um into one with a a single director uh who retains responsibility for the service delivery of those two
Combined Services uh whether that is going to um result in any increase in uh strategic capacity in the Organization thank you chair I can take the first point the post of corporate director is still retained on the establishment structure but there has been no Revenue budget provision against that post since I think it was 2019 that was taken out and and members previously been appraised of that fact so were that
Post to be appointed to it would require additional Revenue provision to be made by the council hence the reason why it’s not something I’m U comfortable with putting forward at the present time in in terms of the merging of the the directorates and the direct responsibilities in short the answer is
No this proposal creates no additional strategic capacity um and that is a shortcoming which will continue within the authority the key issue is that uh one of the main areas identified through the circling squares work is that the directors are not they do not have the freedom to
Operate in a strategic way because they are too regularly being dragged into Service delivery issues there are too many operational requirements placed upon service directors some of that might well come from the organization itself a lot of that also comes from external factors um and members clearly
Have a role in helping us deal with that moving forward and that’s something that I do wish to address uh but no strategic capacity will be created by this this is very much uh trying to better align Services make some investment in some critical areas we’ve got at the moment
And leave the door open for us to come back with further proposals as and when resources permit to look at the bigger issues which will still exist thank you councelor Hughes questions please or question thank you it is only one um but I would like to
Say voice my appreciation for the way in which um you’re increas po are increasing the enforcement teams uh to a full-time enforcement officer uh leading that team and uh and also the opportunity for staff from um planning officers to move between uh planning policy work developing local plan and
Also and and doing planning uh responding to planning applications can I my question is um is this is it will it be possible for individual officers on a temporary basis or a permanent basis to move between these two different roles the planning planning policy role and the uh planning officer
Um role done in manage in development management through you chair that would be the ideal scenario because I think that develops a much broader skill set clearly it’s very much influenced by uh pressures of work and um having a full Staffing establishment which we haven’t
Got at the moment but in an ideal world that will be facilitated by this structure which is not facilitated by the current structure and I think also it it will improve the it will give opportunities that might not be elsewhere as well so it would imp improve the attractiveness of this post
And lead to lead to better skill development for individuals so I do fully I think this is an excellent idea thank you thank you councilor buer uh yes um my question is about is about some of the uh environment stuff that um that Tim brwn LED on
Um one of the things that we we said during the last Council was we had a focus through the climate change working group for example on how we operate as a council and one of the things that we’ve looked at you know that we that we we’ve
Been looking at um as an alliance is to to ensure that the environment is is embedded throughout all of the work that we do um and you know the the the team that the climate change the the the area that the climate change has been moved into is
Very much an operational team um and quite a lot of the work that we want the climate change um the climate change team to work on is on how is working across the district um which doesn’t sit really sit within that team that sits within the place team and what that and
That that this is also the case with the enhanced nature Duty that we’ve got as a that we’ve got as a council that um the you know quite a lot of the things that we’re looking at in terms of things like the local plan so where we talking about
Green infrastructure for example uh and biodiversity n gain that should all be within the place um directorate whereas how we manage our land will sit within you know sits within the um sits within the clean you know the the director that that Ash will be leading on and I understand that these
Are two different things if there’s you know how it where is the Strategic Direction on that going to sit because at the moment the Strategic direction for that because that’s in two different directorates sits with Paul is there so the question about that is has there been what has been the
Consideration of how these things which are looking at what we’re doing for for the district as a whole and what we’re doing as a council have they been considered and and how are they going being considered thank you yes thank you chair um that that is um a very fair
Point or points that that have been made there and I have to be honest I did think long and hard about this issue and just to try and explain the rationale behind my proposal um first of all um climate change influences every single activity that this Council undertakes so
It could literally sit anywhere within the organization and it would still have an involvement in areas of activity outside of where it was sitting um I think the second point is that the the work that um our climate change officer has been doing of late and is likely to
Be doing in the very near future is very closely aligned to our estate’s work and speaking to the individual team members uh there was a very strong wish on their part that they uh were reporting within the same director that we didn’t break up that link between climate change and
Estates and Facilities that’s not to say that climate change will not broaden in the future it clearly will and it will get engaged in other areas but for the purposes of line management reporting that really is the the main function of putting it on this structure diagram if
You was to speak to Joe Hill she would tell you that every single day of the week she’s working across this organization up and down this organization outside the organization but just for l management reporting purposes because they have to report somewhere then there is a stronger alignment at the present time with
Community Environmental Services than anywhere else but that may well change and if it changes we can reflect that thank you uh councelor peacock please I was going to effectively ask the same question as councelor buckler so I’m fine thank you thank you uh Council Ripton uh I was also going to ask a
Similar question but I I think it is worth laboring the point and given the importance of climate change the Optics of it sort of sitting in a service delivery function don’t sit well with me and I think we’re only going to solve climate by taking a strategic approach
To how we use land and how we we we plan our economy so I would ask that perhaps we look again at at that not least because I think it sends the wrong the wrong message well without wishing to put him on the spot I don’t know whether Ash
Would wish to to make any comments in terms of the work undertaken in his department and the cross linkages that that do exist thank you chair um I think the fair points that are raised by members what I would say is whilst there are a number of service areas within the
Department that do actual operational delivery there’s also a strategic aspect to to a number of those services and I don’t want that to be overlooked by members the senior managers within that team do play a strategic role they just have to have one foot in operation services or at least a stronger
Awareness of operational services so not wishing to correct members I really don’t want to overlook that because I think it’s important to acknowledge the fact that those senior managers do undertake a strategic role they also work very very closely with with Mike and the team and if you look at the the
Work program that Joe has has had since she’s been with us or since the role has been formed Joe has either helped inform decisions within the services in the department or my team have helped inform Joe and there are some natural synergies there I I actually think that it
Strengthens what we do it does provide an additional layer of of strategic support um and I certainly would welcome that uh and that’s my view that’s the view that I offered to to CLT uh and I don’t think I’m speaking out of turn in saying that c CLT also feel the same
Way thank you Mr Watts uh Council G yeah yeah I think I’m positive about this changes to the organizational establishment but you know one of the main challenges we’ve got in our corporate plan is housing provision you know meeting our hours in need so I hope that I gathered that these corporate
These sort of changes will put more boots on the ground in the planning department so we can actually make sure sure that over the next 5 10 15 years these hous are going to be delivered to meet our hour in need so we need people who actually dealing with the planning
Applications so I think that is really important if you could just um make me happy about that please Mr Wilson can you make councelor G happy please I’ll certainly try chair um absolutely in in terms of strengthening that role between planning policy and uh delivery in terms of the
Plan planning process um yes the expectation is that we will have more resource um but you know I really do need to emphasiz it is really really difficult to recruit planning staff at the moment and one of the challenges that we will have is how competitive we can be when other authorities in
Darkshire are all fishing in the very small uh Pond that exists uh the principal plan post we’ve advertised it three times now that what is a a competitive salary because we have done the benchmarking across all the Dore authorities but you also need to bear in mind that people go to the private
Sector as well now we’re seeing it in planning at the moment we have seen it in other areas in the past and I do come back to my point back in September the organization does need to be mindful of the difficulties of Recruitment and Retention and we are embarking upon a
Program of work to look at that in detail and when that does come forward to members I would encourage you to to support some of the measures that do come forward because that will help us address this time type of issue thank you very much I’ve got no
More people down on my list for questions um we’re asking we’re asking that uh we approve recommendation one which is just one recommendation do I have anybody that will move that please councilor flitter yeah thank you chair um I will be brief because I think it’s explanatory uh in the report uh this
Report is not just um generated by uh certain squares the retirement of offices but also the to manage the needs of this Council and the expectations of members which I’ll come back to in a minute but in 2.3 of the report um of our statement we’ve got a policy uh that
We want to build flourishing sustainable communities uh but the delivery of that aim uh will need officers and members to work closely together um it’s regrettable that um we are to lose two valuable members of this Council two officers of this Council one being a a director who has great
Experience and that is going to be a loss that we’ve got to really pick up on but I see this stage this report is stage one uh and stage two as I think Paul has indicated I need to see really uh a stage where we look at
Service managers and so we can make points been made that again people on the ground doing the operational work as service managers in areas of need where we want to uh concentrate on is important so that we can relieve our officers to be that most strategic and I
Think they’re capable we’ve just got to give them the the opportunity and that’s where members can really take heed here because one we’ve got to take expectations of members seriously but we can’t do that unless we have a proper organizational way of operating uh and by that I certainly
Mean that you know don’t go to your main uh directors all the time for little bits of things because a tel phone call from a member might seem two minutes and they may seem very irrelevant to an officer that may lead to half a day of finding out that
Information you need which at the moment is taking them away from the work they’re they’re actually doing so and the second point is the expectations of the members of the public and planning and planning enforcement M was a big big issue when we were on the doorstep
Nearly a year ago and that is somewhere where we’ve got to master and and cater for for the future I’m not going to go on and on I think the report is is uh valid I would uh move this chair because I think it’s important that we move and
We move forward and then we build on what we’ve got within that process thank you C berford yes thank you chair yes I’m more than happy to Second the uh recommendations and U thank Paul for his excellent report and presentation to us this evening I think we recall those of
Us who attended the presentation last September from cing Square as a Consultants uh we knew we’d have to lose a a corporate director should we say or director I should say and um I think the retirement anticipated but rather sad retirement in a way of of Tim brawn that
Has uh brought the organization to aead or the organization reorganization to aead I should say and um and I think looking at the the proposed um structure uh management structure uh and hearing what Ash wats has said to us a few minutes ago uh I think there’s no reason
Why the the new structure shouldn’t work uh with obviously the directors of place in economy that’s a new one and obviously Ash’s U um responsibility has well been increased and I sympathize with that with what they’ve got to take on but I think it’s inevitable really that that
Had to happen but I’m sure it can work together and I appreciate what Asher said about um you know in Estates and facilities and climate change um working together more closely with clean and green and so on so uh I think that should work but it’s it’s obviously
Going to be a challenge in the future but U uh it’s it’s it’s going to save uh this Authority some money which can probably be spent in the perhaps in development management uh boosting that although I appreciate the the problems that uh uh the council’s got in terms of
Recruiting planning staff uh both to policy and to development planning uh but I welcome the answer to council hughes’s question about um perhaps having U more flexible appointments in planning between policy and and development planning and if that can come about then that probably would be
Beneficial I think in terms of the two sort of strands um working together uh more closely perhaps than may have been the case in the past so I’m very pleased to Second this this proposal thank you so it’s been moved in its secondly we can move into debate now and the first
On my list is councelor O’Brien thank you thank you chair well I I will be happy to support uh the proposal um but it does it does come with some reservations and I’ll I I Echo I think the sentiment of councelor flitters um helpful comments when he when he moved the recommendation
Our our chief executive has come to us on several occasions over the past four and a half years with a plea for uh more more strategic capacity within the authority and that was made very clear to us in the report we commissioned from circling squares where we invested in
That uh that report from that those Consultants which highlighted the the principal um uh flaw in our current governance is that lack of strategic capacity and they said that when we have an opportunity to look at our our corporate management team when that opportunity arise arises then that is
The time we should look at how we can increase our strategic capacity so I’m disappointed I have to say that it doesn’t appear here that we’ve taken that opportunity to do that on this occasion I have to say when I look at the new uh place directorate as it’s now
Called that to me is a strategic function it’s a enormously wide range of responsibilities and I think to be honest to expect an individual officer to have operational responsibility which is what come with this title to have operational responsibility for all those Services is just unrealistic so I think that cries out
For a strategic approach and then as councelor flitter says you let individual service heads for a fair number of those responsibilities you let the service delivery responsibility to um post further down the scale so I think this this is a m opportunity uh and I would urge uh our chief executive
To uh not let this and not let this opportunity lie and and I hope we he will continue to address address this and I think the debate we had on the um on this new darbishire leadership board and the mayoral combined Authority emphasizes the need for us to be able to
To think and act strategically you cannot do that if at the same time you’re trying to deliver services on the ground it doesn’t happen and that and that is why we’ve got ourselves into uh some of the some of the dilemmas that we have over the past the past years so as
I said I’m I’m happy to support this recommendation because I I support what our chief executive to do is trying to do but I do think this is is a missed opportunity so I would uh urge all of us that the leadership and the political and the officer leadership to to return
To this this issue in the near future thank you the next on the list to councelor Burton please it’s important for me to just convey a few comments um I sometimes feel overwhelmed uh and almost inadequate in this sort of debate but first of all I want to say I totally
Support the comments from councelor flitter thank you Steve that that was very helpful and also earlier uh to the comments of Paul Wilson I think for me and I don’t know about you one of the problems as a ward member is this expectancy and what I’ve seen in recent
Years is community has become more re-engaged and more proactive I mean recently we had an issue Susan Hobson knows about in darale with the hell Woods a public meeting is held you know you know some years ago you’d have been lucky if you’d have got half a dozen folk to a public meeting
There was over a hundred people that night and we’re their elected representatives and there is an expectancy that we can then do actually then do something via our offices and the Dilemma is that then when you pursue particular Roots unfortunately we don’t seem to have that resource available and this is no
Criticism of the current officers because we are well served by the president planning officers but they’re totally in my personal view uh overwhelmed to to in in in many aspects in in the expectancy and the demands and particularly where last night at a town council meeting uh
There there were issues over uh a desire to actually see enforcement happen uh so I I really do hope that out of this for the sake of those of us that stand to be part part of this Council we we can certainly have a framework that will uh serve us well in those
Duties that uh we’re elected to be uh so I I will be supporting the uh motion thank you councilor slack thank you chair uh yeah I think um C Square’s uh opened his eyes a bit on on and the workshops we have with with those
Um I do think we needed to change I think we need to be uh more proactive and uh same as kber just said we need to be we’re part of the community and be close to the community and uh any issues come up we need to be there and address
It with the officers one thing I do like especially about this is now uh certain areas you can go to such as planning you can ring a planning officer about uh the to Wingham actually about a planning application but other areas you can’t you go straight through to the director
And I think uh by uh having a different telephone directory with all the green and clean team the uh Power Parks the uh all all those areas uh uh environmental out and different areas all with telephone numbers where you can go directly to the person you want to talk
To and uh this has uh been a challenge for a few years because they are overwhelmed of seen senior officer directors are overwhelm with telephone calls and emails and uh we’ve got to uh the more than capable the second line officers are more than capable of
Handling up most of the things and if they aren’t they will refer it back to the director so I think this is a good sensible move which will increase U the role of the District Council in operation wise so yes I I will be supporting this chair thank you thank
You councelor slck of nobody else for de oh councelor boo roid thank you I think I just want to make the point that while climate change sits in the director of community and environmental services the opportunity to have an impact on climate change within those services that we operate is
Very very very limited you there there there’s a lot of things in there but actually and I think that’s I want to labor that slight because it does need urgent review as to how we then as a progressive Alliance LED it was previously a lot of the climate change
Activities were sitting in those functions but that will make such a small difference in what we actually need to do for climate change so I think we really need to consider as a group of members whether or not that’s as ambitious as we can be with climate
Change and that’s that’s why we we see our activities sitting forever more thank you councelor Hughes thank thank you chair I wasn’t going to talk but I think councilor bu Ro’s mate has I’d like to Echo what she said um I think the the there’s a real issue I
Mean I’m sure Ash can manage this he’s excellent at managing lots of other services but it is part part of place an economy uh it has overall um we’re moving out of the position where climate change officer is responsible for improving the performance of the council itself into improving the performance of
Our suppliers and improving the performance of the district and therefore there’s a significant plac making requirement associated with the climate officer and so my my own feeling is that it would be better placed under the director of place and economy where it would fit with um Economic Development tourism conservation and
Design which are broadly similar in um scope if that even if they’re perhaps not as important as the climate change uh work that is done so I would I would favor that this that it was moved to uh the place place and economy part of the
Council so that it could have a greater impact on plac making across darbishire thank you thank you Mr Wilson just wants to come back and clarify something thank you yes thank you chair I think members need to approach this from the point of view of how are the council’s climate
Change Ambitions going to be delivered and they’re not going to be delivered or dictated by where the climate change officer sits in the organization they’re going to be delivered by the climate change action plans by the biodiversity action plans we’ve got by The Joint working that takes place across the
Whole organization by the you know key projects that are already taking place in the housing field in uh the place shaping Arena so where this post sits in the organiz Iz ation isn’t going to make one jot of difference I would suggest to what the impact that particular office
Is going to have within that that service area um that’s not just my view that is actually the view of the offices as well now members need to be very careful that I haven’t just put this forward without giving it a lot of consideration the climate change officer
Wants to stay with uh the Estates and Facilities functions they have to sit within the community Environmental Services director because that is the most logical place place that’s where they do pretty much all of the work on our estate so if you separate that function out just for the purpose of a
Structural diagram you are likely to upset the very officer that you want to keep on board I just make that point you know I have discussed this at length and if members feel at any point that the positioning of that post on this structure diagram is impacting on your
Ability to deliver please let me know but I will give you an assurance that it will not have one jot of a difference as to what Joe Hill does she will still deliver on all of the agenda that You’ set she will just report to a director for line management purposes that
Happens to be director of community Environmental Services thank you councelor ble thank you Paul um I know that I did discuss with this with you uh previously and I did ask that Joe wasn’t necessarily bunkered in something that was working with our Estates and facilities and I want that are out there working
With uh our people our residents our communities and while I accept there are plenty of things you yet to do here in the council I’d like to think about maybe helping her to stretch her wings get herself out there start doing some stuff outside in the community rather
Than just putting bits and Bobs on our roof thank you thank you councelor but councel Whitehead thanks chair I say I really like I really like the proposal I think it’s uh it’s Dynamic it’s agile we criticize organizations all the time for being far too topheavy and actually
We’re taking some proactive steps in the circumstances that we have to adjust our structure and save a bit of money so that sounds really good from the environmental point of view I’ve always seen this and since all the discussions we’ve had since I’ve been elected we
Want to see this as a golden thread through everything the council do so I absolutely agree with Paul it makes no difference where this role sits in fact I think it sits in the right place in this structure every member of the council whether elected or officers should be having climate change climate
Sort of considerations in every part of their role so well done Paul excellent thank you I no further people down for debate it’s been moved it’s been seconded it’s moved by councelor flitter seconded by councel berford it’s for recommendation that for one approval can I uh have all those in favor please
Against any abstentions that’s unanimous and that’s carried thank you we now move on to item agenda for agenda item 10 which is the local council tax support scheme um and Karen’s going to present this one for us thank you thank you chair um so this report is
Asking members to approve and adopt a local council tax support scheme for 2425 um and to approve a budget of £20,000 for the discretionary hardship scheme for that year so local council tax support scheme gives households um that are eligible um a reduction of 91.5% on their council tax
Bills um we calculate those reductions um after other discounts have been applied such as single person occupancy and in line with government guidance um there are separate um entitlement Provisions for working age um households um and for um pensioners pensioners get the 100% reduction but as I’ve said earlier
Working age claimants receive 91.5% reduction and in our area um where we’ve got about 34 a half thousand households um around 3,100 that’s about 9% um currently receive council tax support um the anticipated cost of the proposed scheme um as the report says will be around £ 3.7
Million um split 1.7 million in respect of pension age claimants um with the rest being for working age payments um in terms of cost um the cost of the scheme is shared with other um major preceptors uh meaning that the County Council actually Bears about 70%
Of the cost um and we sh we take about 14% with police and fire uh making the rest um in this report the proposed scheme for 2425 um is essentially the same as the scheme for the current year um the only um changes that we’re proposing to make
Are to update certain allowances um within the scheme in in um accordance with the circulars from the Department for work and pensions and with regulations so there’s no um major changes to the scheme and therefore there was no need to consult with the public or with the precepting
Authorities um in terms of the discretionary hardship scheme um some Council taxpayers even after the 91.5% reduction um still struggle to pay uh the remaining amount of the um council tax bill um and so the discretionary hardship scheme is set up so that the U benefits manager can use his authority
To award um um an amount from the discretionary hardships fund meaning that in most cases the bills are reduced to zero um in the past and in the current year sorry in the current year we’ve got a budget of £20,000 for that fund and at the moment um the benefits manager feels
That that would be sufficient for 24 25 as well um if monitoring during the year proves that that’s not enough um then as I’ve said at previous Council meetings I’ll bring bring a report back to request additional funding thank you thanks very much Karen has got any
Questions on this one it looks quite straightforward to me no questions so we’ve got uh two recommendations to approve one and two and it’s as Karen has mentioned have we got anybody who wants to move it counselor Shelly yes please yes I’d like to I think it’s an excellent report and I I
Fully support the recommendations and the intent thank you councelor ble second right we’ve got it moved and seconded anybody want to speak in debate uh councelor G and then councelor hubson please yeah I’m happy to support this uh recommendation and I think this is a really important function of the
Council um I’ve come across this uh in about 12 years of been on a council and I think it’s something that any of us in this room could fall on times and I think we need to support those people so I’m happy to support it Council Hobson thank you just just briefly chair
Through you to thank Karen it’s actually she says in um paragraph 1.4 that uh you know our Council has not been challenged at a tribunal or judicial review uh so that’s thanks to Karen and the team thank you thank you both for those comments anybody else wish to say
Anything in debate please no right so it’s been moved it’s been seconded can I have those in favor to for the recommendations please vote it’s looking fairly unanimous but uh can we justs have anybody against sorry against and abstentions please so that’s carried thank
You we now move move on to item 11 which is the review of the polling districts and uh Jason Spencer is going to lead us through this one thank you Jason um thank you chair I’ve I’ve not got um a lot to add to the report that
The members have already got in front of them um the main purpose of this report tonight is uh two two um two reasons uh the first one is to inform you that we are carrying out a review of our uh polling districts and polling places um
This is required U by Statute um it’s uh it’s in legislation the leg the relevant legislation as I’ve highlighted in the report was introduced uh before the uh fixed term Parliament Act was repealed so the timetable of carrying out the review um was was around the basis that
We would have a fixed uh term for Parliament because uh that’s now been repealed the time scales for a review no longer fit in with the the Parliamentary election time table but we are still required uh to carry on with the review so the council is is required to
Complete the review by January 2025 um but we are um formally going to start it uh now uh we have already done some uh pre preliminary work um in December um but the one thing I I would mention in terms of of polling places um
That in the elections act that was uh uh 22 a new Duty was uh placed upon um The Returning officer to make sure that polling stations are fully accessible so as a consequence uh the the council does uh regularly keep under review uh the buildings we use for
Polling stations and how electors um move around those polling stations so for example after every election we do uh send out a questionnaire to the um presiding officers at the polling station we have polling station inspectors who go out there on the ground on polling day and they feedback
With observations so we do keep it under continually under review so in some respects um a lot of the the work involved in the review we have already done which leads me on to the second part of the report which is um the items in paragraph 211 um they are items that
We uh have identified um in recent elections that we think require an alteration to the poce stations that are or the polling places that are used for particular polling stations um and uh they’ve Arisen for a combination of reasons um some of them are because the building
That we have previously used is no longer available or we have been made aware of an alternative venue in in the same uh area that is better suited as a polling station um and there are some polling stations where the the current layout of the building uh means that
It’s no longer suitable for a polling station so we’ve actively looked out for for alternative venues and and the cases where that have applied are set out in paragraph 211 um the the the thing um here is that uh the report proposes that we make those changes now so that any
Election or elections that take place between now and completion of uh the review uh will um will take the poing stations used will be at those locations it may well be as a as a result of the review that we find uh there are additional issues that we’re not aware
Of and then we would be bringing back uh proposals to members in order to to address those issues so those are the two elements of this report um I thought it’ be useful just to highlight the purpose of of the recommendations that are there before you um the first one is
To note that we are carrying out this review uh and that we we’re commencing it so we will as part of the review be making contact with uh Parish counselors uh with others who’ve been involved in the Electoral uh process um so uh election agents just to to see if
They’ve got any feedback on on stations whilst um they’ve got um there is an outlining timetable there um it’s just to highlight that the timetable um is is really it’s there because it’s realistic what we think we can achieve uh within within those time scales so we still
Want to complete it uh well in time for the uh the January 2025 deadline uh but we do have various stages where decisions need to be made by members and that in some respects uh influences the timetable so it’s to note that timetable to re uh for review uh the third
Recommendation is about um um in in some respects this is a um this is is not a in my opinion a significant issue but it’s giv deleg ation to the Electoral registration officer uh to uh Implement any Ne Me measures that are necessary to give affect the uh new parliamentary
Constituencies in terms of The darbishire Dales as a as a as a district um the the uh parliamentary changes have not had a any impact at all so effectively the whole of the darish Shadel is still in the darish shadel’s Parliamentary constituency um there are
Um some changes that that we as as a you know the agent of the returning officer and the acting returning officer will have to deal with in terms of bringing in the areas in uh amber Valley and South darbishire but we’re working through those but the main decision
Making here is about the uh the ER for for darbishire dales it is very unlikely that we will um need to um to use this delegation because as I said there are no significant changes but what we have found when we reviewed the boundaries uh for the um the district um for the
Elections last year that there were some anomalies so for example the we found a situation where some electors in a very small polling district will actually traveling past another polling station in order to get to the one that was designated to them um so so we we
Actually made a SL a slight tweak so that electors from that polling District would allocated a different polling station so it might be those kind of very small things that that will pick up I don’t anticipate anything uh significant uh the fourth recommendation um is um to authorize electoral officer
To take the necessary measures to give effect to any new amended polling districts on completion of the district review again I don’t see any significant changes there most of the polling districts in The darbishire Dales uh because we are fully parished uh a cour termin us with Parish boundaries so it’s
Unlikely that we would uh we would change that um um so so again I I I don’t think um there will be any significant changes it may well be that the only Chang is about changing the the name of polling District so you’ll you’ll be familiar from electoral
Registers that a lot of the elector numbers start with three letters um and that that is the name of their polling District we may tweak uh some of the the letters that used in the name in the polling District so that all the same letters um all the same poing districts
Wi the particular Council Ward start with the same letter because they don’t at the moment so that that’s the kind of tweaking we’re talking about nothing particularly significant um and then um item five um is uh seeking uh approval for delegation to governance and resources committee to
Deal with reports like this rather than full Council it fits within the uh current terms of reference of the uh governance and resources subcommittee uh but we need to demonstrate that we’ve specifically delegated um the uh Authority Under sections 18 and 18a of the representations of the people out so
That that’s that’s what we’re seeking there recommendation five um and uh recommendation six um is seeking the power to designate polling places um to the director of corporate and customer services again this is um this is only in uh would really only be used in in emergency circumstances where in the in
The run up to an election when we’re about to issue poll cards or or post pole card issue where we need to alter a poll in place because one suddenly becomes unavailable uh um that those are the circumstances we use that delegation and it would normally be with
Consultation with the relevant chair and with M members so thank you chair thank you and thanks for that very thorough report thank you any questions please Council Hobson thank you Jason for your report would it go into governance and resources I’m just concerned that uh members they need to tell their town and
Parish councils that you’re confident that everybody will know about these changes well in advance if it does in future be a to go through to governance and resources um yeah I mean we we do work closely with with the parish council so so if there were any any changes we we
Would commun Comm unicate those changes to the parish councils ourselves um and uh yeah you history with this yes I could also make a commitment to contact the relevant Ward members if the governance and resources committee are have made a decision that affects their Ward that would be lovely thank you
Yeah thank you any more questions please so we’ve got uh six recommendations uh two uh two one and two are to note the recommendations three and four are to authorize and the others are to delegate does that find anybody that wishes to move it councelor
Bo Roy yeah I’m happy to move that thank you and councelor berford you’re second in thank you right we’ll enter into debate hases anybody got any Council B you wish to say something yes thank you chair um yes it’s very complicated issue and I do thank Jason Spencer and his colleagues
Chris Bond and other colleagues for the work that they’ve done it’s it’s really quite uh challenging really this sort of work of course we don’t hear from the elections team no normally between elections it’s just in the runup to each election then we hear them from them quite a lot but they’re working
Very hard in the background um and it has really been challenging recently because of the probably the well it’s difficult to accuse the boundary Commission of dirty dealing if you like but it it certainly looked like that in many cases where uh particularly during during the pandemic they they
Came up with some very strange proposals for w boundary changes and uh which is why there’s such a problem as all Matlock area doid area members know in in this area it’s been quite a quite a dog’s breakfast to actually deal with in terms of representing U different areas of the of
Your ward uh some on uh any new uh or expanded District Council Ward but in in the existing County Council division and then some parishes are not happy obviously with the changes that that they’re experiencing as well so it’s good to know that um J I’ve spoken to
Jason Spencer about this several times in fact I think myself and and probably Council Dubbs in the past of frequently uh emailed and made representations to the boundaries commission about some of these proposals uh so um I certainly welcome the work that they’ve done uh but I think most people particularly
Parish councils who don’t necessarily get involved in debates about these things they hear about it uh because they’ve been written to and they’re confused about the boundary changes uh they’re very inconsistent um and the discrepancies which I think need to be ironed out I think some of them will be uh in talking
To Jason Spencer I think some of them will be ironed out at some stage but at the moment they don’t really make a great deal of sense in some areas um I I I do I would criticize the the government’s uh um repealing of the fixed term paraments act which makes it
In in a way more difficult for Jason and his colleagues in terms of the constituency boundary changes because I think taking over it was one thing taking over uh with the the areas of have very close proximity to darb I the old ports and south of Southwest
Parishes WS of Amber Valley but South darbishire is probably a step too far in a way I mean when we’re in the North or the central part of the district we don’t know much about South D to be honest so it’s going to take some getting used to but um uh whether
They’ll get get used to going in darbishire DS it’s going to be confusing for their residents when they’re in South darbishire but then in darbishire DS for parliamentary constituency purposes uh so a lot of U uh rather unfortunate uh um issues that the people have got to grasp I think in the future
But I think we’ I’ve got immense faith in Jason and his colleagues in terms of trying to sort this out and making it clearer and trying to uh get round some of the discrepancies that have occurred in recent years so I I welcome this report and move the recommendations oh second sorry
The recommendations thank councel bord has anybody else got anything to say in debate councilor G just one quick one I’d like to thank Jason for enlightening me on the representation of the people act of 1983 because it wasn’t at the Forefront of my mind at that time but I think we
Should just go to the vote please it was neither at the Forefront of mine until I read it I can guarantee you that so has anybody else wish to say anything if not it’s been moved it’s been seconded can we have those all those in favor please against abstentions because I’ve declared
That thank you that’s uh that’s carried thank you very much we’re now going to uh move on to item 12 which is a referred item from from the community and environment committee remember it well uh and this is to consider the recommendations of the community and environment committee regarding the approval of supplementary
Budget estimate an estimate of £10,000 to facilitate a 12- month subscription to L Earth Sense um I don’t think we’ve got anybody from uh that’s going to be able Council berer are you able to Enlighten Us in relation to this as chair of the community and
Environment uh only in terms of the the fact that we did uh support the uh procuring of this Earth Sense monitor uh for ashborne uh I don’t know if coun dobs can probably add to that but it’s uh it’s obviously something that’s been required for some time uh so I think
It’s it’s because we couldn’t actually approve the expenditure at my committee it’s been referred to full Council so uh I can certainly recommend it and uh endorse The Proposal uh now it’s come to full Council uh but it’s something that’s going to increase the uh um I
Suppose the the scope of the monitoring exercise in ashborne which I think all members of the community environment committee did support at the time thank you can I just ask because I’d just like some uh context into it um councel Hobson do you wish to say something we
Don’t I I just want to make sure that all members that weren’t part of the committee are aware of what we’re talking about when we talk about an Earth Sense monitor well I’ll I’ll say my bit now because I was me I was a member of that
Okay that committee and I did challenge this expenditure on an additional uh Earth Sense Monitor and there were various questions about it so I have had a confirmation from darish County Council today just to confirm we are buying Earth Sense air quality monitoring hardware for ashborne in
Support of a project that we’ve receive de for grant funding for we will be happy to share the data and provide access to our back office systems for all for this we’re also willing to do a briefing at an appropriate time in the control room for darel’s uh members and
Offices um I think with this we all know about the ashon air quality problem the fact that they’re going to have two and we wanted to buy another one for £10,000 Paul’s d asked us tonight to be mindful of financial challenges and that was the point I wanted to make thank you
Thank you councelor dobs uh would it be expedient if I proposed adoption of the recommendation from CNE and then talk to it as with that help I think you if we could shed some light on what we’re talking about and then we’ll have some questions if people want to ask
Questions I just want some clarity so people are aware of what we’re actually talking about and you you know it better the most I should think right this is a real time uh monitor the leasing for one year is about £4,000 um if we put it up ourselves and
Apparently it’s only two Jubilee Clips it’s not hugely complicated we can save the installation cost of 500 the additional £5,000 is if you want a public facing website to make the information that it’s Gathering available to the public so the bottom line for us is almost certainly um all right less than £5,000
What will it do it will monitor knocks it will Monitor particulates and we’re not monitoring particulates at all at the moment and yet we’re the authority which is charged with keeping an eye on such things but the real thing that means we really must I do exort you on
This to to vote for this we do need to get on and establish a baseline because I’m afraid to say that the monitors that I thought and I thought there were three actually from County Council would be in position by the end of the year and I
Think I’m not alone in this room thinking that that was the case they’re not there and when I spoke to Earth Sense there’s been some deferment of their order because probably they haven’t got the money from government to spend until next financial year now if not if we’re not in there establishing a
Baseline how will we know whether the County Council action one project which they’re kind of rolling out they’re tweaking the traffic lights as at the moment and they should actually be starting to implement that in the not too distant future if we haven’t established a baseline we won’t have a
Clue as to how effective it’s going to be so we’ve got to get out there get it done get it a baseline established and then okay fine if um County you’re going to put two there this one could be have its two Jubilee kilps undone it could be
Put somewhere else it could be put in place for a matter of weeks and then we can answer the question we’ we’ve often made well what it’s really like in cromford what’s the periodic pattern of particulates and KNX in cromford these sorts of questions we will be able to
Address and I come back to the fact we are the monitoring Authority I think we should have our own I hope you agree thank you any questions please councelor Chapman thanks chair um Ash do I address questions to you on that particular on this no thank you
Chair right well all right General then um I’d just like to ask what level of information what level of data we’ve got on on the air quality in ashborne going back how many years and and how do we establish and what of which of those data have established that there is a
Problem and by the problem I mean the levels of of nitrous oxide the particular matter etc etc because do we have enough information already to know that there’s some that mitigating circumstances mitigating actions need to be taken do we need to continue monitoring when we know there’s a
Problem uh and and would the 10,000 be better going towards mitigation processes for that to to prevent that that air quality how much how much measurement do we need I mean we we’ve and and if somebody can give me the answer to that of how many years it’s
Been going on and what what data we have got what figures what what concentrations um and surely we we must be in a position where we know that we we’ve got to do something about it right I think what basically we’re being asked to do is are we prepared to approve the actual
Uh paying of uh 10,000 the supplementary budget estimate of £10,000 well chair I’m I’m asking the validity of that yeah of that 10,000 were you at the meeting on the yes so did you get resp I didn’t I voted against it yeah but did you get a response to your question there I
Didn’t ask it right right we’ll I have one more question and that’s from councelor Whitehead please yes I must say I find it’s really confusing because it seems to be a project that we’re supposed to be working in partnership with darbishire County Council who have already or or in the process of
Purchasing two of these pieces of equipment and because we don’t have any confidence in their ability to deliver to time scales we thought we’ll take it out of their hands we’ll spend £10,000 of our taxpayers money when we could be using that for different purposes to me this seems like a
Nonsense anybody else councel dobs well councel Archer first then um it wasn’t a question it was just for clarity for people who weren’t at the meeting just to clarify a point that was implied by Council dos just to make sure everyone understands for sure this is a
This is a portable monitor so although in first instance would be used to clarify uh measurements of um particulates in particular in ashborne it would then be able to be redeployed in other areas as well so just to make sure everyone is aware of that than councel
G could I have this in bqu please in the center of bqu if it’s not required in ashborne I think it is a question and thank you for the question I I think it is movable and I think I think it’s an asset for this organization and you know
It’s for the decision to be made um I think what we need to do is we need to just move forward and the best way to decide this is whether or not we want to is just put it to a vote so does anybody want to move the actual uh item that’s
On the Council of dobs right so are you moving it councel dobs uh I am indeed chair I thought seen that first time around no sorry I I think I think the the simple thing is that if we just vote on it so councelor dubs’s um moved it and Council Hughes
Has seconded it so are there any more comments that anybody wants to make sorry chair can I answer some questions about it I think a lot of people don’t know the full story and I think it would help enormously to answer your question we’ve actually only really started
Monitoring for KNX and KNX alone in ashborne seriously since about 2017 2019 we’ve got trends at one particular point where hasn’t changed since then it’s still um in the areas that def regard environment agent we regard as as difficult but slightly below the um illegal limit if you like and we got one
Incredibly High one at the top of um buckton Hill at the wind Lane interchange and that is um significantly over the air quality objective we are not me measuring particulates anywhere and the recent um es to the environment Act made this uh Council responsible for ensuring that particulate levels
Decrease I repeat we don’t even know what the particular levels are anywhere at the moment without this device or devices uh we won’t know and if these are bolted to bits of ashborne and we don’t have the ability to move them because they belong to the County
Council we will never know what the particulat level are Elsewhere for example in bwell thank you I’m going to can I can I talk now as the second uh I endorse what Peter said Peter dob says about the uh need to monitor for particulates particulates are an amazing a real problem they
Result in U cardiac problems pulmonary problems all sort circulatory problems and we do not know what the problem is in dub shales there are various areas of dades where particulates may be high uh Center of ashborne is one cromford The Junction on the A6 and cromford is
Another they may very well be high in parts of vqu which is subject to idling diesel engines for a lot of the day when uh during particularly during the summer summer period And so there is a problem but we don’t know what size the problem is the County Council can cannot tell us
What the size of the problem is because they’re not monitoring for particulates except potentially in ashborne at this stage that it is a duty we have a duty to uh concerning air quality which is now covering particulars therefore to fulfill our duty we need to be able to
Monitor and this gives us the ability to monitor it’s a we probably need more of these things the one of the major sources of particulates are um are um stoves um and uh uh wood burning stoves and we don’t know what the problem is away from roads in terms of particulates
So uh there is a need for us to understand this problem not only in major road Junctions but potentially and other areas of the of of our towns as well so I fully endorse this this um this purchase of a a service um for for the provision of uh what monitoring for
Particulate matter as well as NO2 thank you David we’ve got councelor Whitehead and then councelor um Murphy and councelor Lee and then councelor O’Brien and then we’ll go to a vote thank you super thanks chair uh thank you very much for the additional rationale and it it makes perfect sense unfortunately the
Report in front of us only talks about purchasing this device for ashborne I see no plan attach for rolling out to the rest of so I would suggest to the committee if they want approval come back with a plan because yeah I’d like to have the air quality monitored in
Cromford probably in mat lock bath as well I’m sure there’s many areas but at the moment I see nothing in this proposal that gives us a guarantee that if we spend £10,000 that plan is going to be enacted so at the moment just seems like a waste
Of money because we already know the county are buying two for ashborne therefore it seems unnecessary to buy a third just for that purpose I would suggest maybe the committee come back with a plan that we can approve for a full roll out across the district and
That would be the most sensible approach thank you councelor Murphy thank you chair uh um Minds an observation on uh page 85 um item three and we talk about the relationship we have with uh highways at County and whatever but is it best served by us by
Us actually asking them uh again about 20 m per hour speed limits on uh on Bon Hill in in that area of actual ashborne because when you look at the sort of the numbers of people actually responded to the con consultation and you think about the population of the ashborn you’ve got
3% of the population actually responded to that question 134 83 218 against it’s statistically insignificant we haven’t really got a mandate from the people of ashborne to go and sort of you know ask highways to reconsider giving us a a speed limit 20 M hour I spoke to uh highways engine
Engineer uh today I was talking about something completely different and uh just come up conversation about the uh to monitoring they did in November on bton hill in ashborne and if you look at the uh results uh there’s barely anybody up or down the hill in that area doing 20 M an
Hour quite happy to share that information um I just I I just just don’t see you know that we’ve you know got the people of ashborne on side on this particular item so it just stood out to me today when I was reading this report and say it says here you know
Given the level of public support well there isn’t that greater support so you know we need to be careful thank you Council Le thank you chair yeah um obviously uh councel dubs and Miss Alo are on the ward with box in on but uh we’re getting two which the county going to provide
Surely this third one or whatever or even these two they going be moved around the the district so I don’t see the need for the third one and it’s not just about even though yes it’s my w councelor Do’s W it’s not just about books to it’s about the doish Dale so I
Presume that the distri the County Council will want to move these um devices around to get a full understanding of the district like Council White had have has alluded to thank you thank you councelor O’Brien yeah thank you ched let’s just remind ourselves that it was our director of regulatory Services who made
This recommendation to the committee Environ environment committee and he did so because he in his professional opinion it was required to satisfy the requirements of preparing the the air quality management action plan and let’s remind ourselves that at the committee 14 members voted for it one abstained no
One we had the full debate this we repeated debate this debate at Community environment committee 14 members voted for one abstained no one opposed to it now let’s remind ourselves why why are we why are we debating this why are we discussing this that’s because we have
An issue in ashorn where people’s lives are being foreshortened by the quality of the air and now we’re prevaricating in the same way as we accuse the County Council of prevaricating let’s address the issue let’s agree this proposal and let’s move forward and let’s have the evidence
Which enables to put forward an action plan which will improve the health outcomes for the residents of ashborne thank you chair thank you councelor O’Brien and just before we go to the vote and observation that obviously the two count uh the two assess the two monitors the county will possibly be
Deployed after at different parts of the county not the district so it does give us an opportunity to have some for ourselves so we’re now it’s been moved it’s been seconded can we please can I speak again well I did say we would go to the vote because you’ve
Moved it councilor Hughes and I’m looking at the time at 20 8 yeah I think there’s some points that need clarifying first of all the point that councelor Murphy made that was not something addressed to this meeting it was just the minutes of the CN so we’re not asked
To consider that this time and second point if we don’t author uh if we don’t authorize the expenditure um at this point we will have lost any data for the Baseline before they Implement their scheme I don’t know how indeed we’ll be able to fill in the relevant form uh for
Our action plan if we have no evidence of that nature this is important and I don’t think there was any ever any intention of the County Council moving theirs around because it was part of the action plan that they should have realtime monitoring in ashborne and warn people about the
Levels if we want one to move around if we want one quickly there is only one option and it’s not going to cost £10,000 it costs a bit over £4,000 uh and that’s uh if we put it up ourselves that will be it thank you councelor
Bord um seems to be a little bit of misinformation may be coming across to me on this really important issue so um I’d like to ask for a recorded vote because it is such an important decision that we’re making thank you and finally councelor Hughes and then we will go to a recorded
Vote thank you thank you does that find a second for the recorded vote Yes councilor flitter will second that thank you chair um if Peter will is in agreement then I would add uh councelor Whitehead’s um proposal that officers are uh will come back to the community
Environment committee with a plan to you of how to use this sensor uh elsewhere in the district okay can you just say that one more time while we write that down that uh I think Peter’s in agreement with this that the the the officers establish a plan for uh moving it around the
District so that it can be used to record nox levels and particulate levels in different areas as required as required I’m comfortable with that chair it’s been moved and it’s been seconded with that slight change which we both happy about all those in favor of us uh referring this of considering
The recommendations and going for the £10,000 as per item 12 all those in favor please oh sorry sorry my fault my fault yeah so uh Russy can you can you get lead us through a recorded vote sorry about that everyone councelor Archer councel Bates councelor Buon councel Bond councelor
Booy councel Booker four councel Martin bfor four councelor Sue bfor councelor Burton four councelor butal four counc coun Chapman abstain councelor dobs for councelor Edwards Walker yes councel flitter for councel Franks for councel G councel gret trick councel Hobson councelor Hughes for Council Le councelor ly weight for councel mstom for councelor
Murphy councelor Nash councelor O’Brien four councelor peacock four councel Ripton four councelor Shelly councelor slack for councelor Wayne for councelor Whitehead for with the amendment y councelor Wilton four carry yeah that’s motion’s therefore carried sorry about the error the first time I forgot about that
Bit right can we now move on to uh well first of all before I’m just mindful of time and uh we’re obviously going to have to recommend that the meeting or we’re going to ask whether the meeting can continue after half past eight we’ve got two more items to uh deliberate upon
Does anybody need a short comfort break before we do yes please yeah would like to move that do we have to move that there’s a I’ll second it all those in favor if you could get back to f as close to half past 8 as we could
Um actually I I just recommend that we can extend the meeting Beyond 8 Half 8 would anybody like to second that well councelor Archer all those in favor of extending for half an hour or as long as it takes thank you yeah want to just right everyone we’re going to start
Again can we just uh I know it was a bit of a rush because of the Comfort break and everything but uh I did move that we extend the meeting if we could extend the meeting till 9:15 sorry 9:00 uh that could be hopeful but I’m I’m hopeful would anybody like to second
That councelor councelor Arch is second it all those in favor to extend to 9:00 keep your hands up so they can uh all those against and uh have you got those and any abstentions please no right so now we’ll move on and we’re going on to item 13 which
Is the vehicle replacement program uh the report requests that the transfer 166,167 of funds already approved and and allocated to the vehicle replacement program for 20242 in the current into the current Financial year uh Ash would you like to lead us through this please thank you chair good evening
Members um it’s clear over the last week that the the discussion surrounding this report has moved from what was initially intended to be a financial decision in in transferring funds already committed to the next financial Year back into this financial year uh has actually moved into questions regarding the
Vehicle replacement program and some concerns raised regarding the purchase of diesel vehicles um as members will will know you have a suggested amendment in in front of you but before we get to that point I would just like to explain the reason for for the suggested Amendment and that has come out of
Conversations that I’ve had individually with members and and as part of some group discussions that I’ve been involved with as well um and some of those concerns for for the benefit of other members is that we uh are perceived not to have been moving immediately to to electric
Vehicles um and and whilst we appreciate and share the aspiration to to move to an electric Fleet uh I I feel that officers have been quite clear that there is a process to to go through uh and process includes um ensuring that the infrastructure were was in place to
Be able to charge the fleet making sure that staff are suitably trained to undertake repair maintenance service and safety inspections on um live electric feed and electric vehicles and also go through the process of triing vehicles to make sure that they’re fit for purpose uh there are a number of um I
Want to say horror stories because it sounds dramatic but looking at some of the the expenditure on on electric vehicles there have been a number of authorities who have gone um headlong into purchasing uh Fleet that hasn’t actually been um fit for purpose or hasn’t had the desired effect that it
Would want to do given the council’s financial position we didn’t want to do that we have taken I don’t want to say cautious but we have tried to learn from other authorities in doing so and have worked closely with Nottingham City Council to understand their um process
And through their purchase and move to Electric fleet vehicles we gave commitments um to tr all the vehicles as part of the the corporate plan um and that was approved last it was the previous corporate plan or the current one that’s that’s that’s due to end soon
And we committed to trialing EV Vehicles by the end of this financial year and which we are on track to do we also highlighted in the capital program report in November M 22 that we were working towards installing infrastructure at the Depot at Northwood that sits with the clean and green and
The fact that Sam as clean and green manager is with us to take technical questions to have that in place so we could move to Electric fleet vehicles by June 2024 and I’m pleased to say that that work was completed at the back end of of last year however um in spirit of
Of showing that we we are listening to members concern we do take them seriously and we we we support your aspirations to do that I have proposed the amendment I don’t intend to read it because I’m sure members will have checked it through that being said uh it
Would be remiss of us as officers not to highlight the risks with a change intact from purchasing the vehicles to uh a proposed lease um and they are um primarily around um the the C cost of leasing vehicles um and also um whilst there is a desire to move to to Electric
Fleet vehicles we need to appreciate that there needs to be a suitable or like for like replacement for the work that is is required of those vehicles um the part of the process of the vehicle re replacement program is that Sam and Joe Hiller we’ve talked about this
Evening we we’ll review the program they’ll look at the vehicles and we have the the desire to move to to an electric Fleet where where we can but there does have to be uh a a sequence of events that we we have to follow and also we
Have to factor in whether there is an appropriate vehicle available in the market um and the reason that we’d put the original U request forward without the detail is because it was simply um a belief that there isn’t a suitable vehicle um in the Market at
This moment in time and we thought that this option offered the better value for money I appreciate it’s not an electric fleet vehicle but the new diesel vehicles that we were proposing to buy we’re upgrading from Euro 5 um emissions to Euro 6 so there would be a reduction
In in emissions we would retain the functionality of the vehicle we know that it did the the the work that we needed it to do so there was a logic behind it um in terms of financing it the costol out in front of you in the recommendation for £66,000 for the
Replacement of five vehicles the equivalent for lease and members need to be be mindful of this because this is one of the risks that’s associated to the amendment that’s in front of you is to lease those Vehicles is £47,000 per six months no for for for all all the five
Vehicles sorry for the five vehicles it’s a 47 ,000 every six months that we want to lease that I mean Sam and the garage Foreman have had to move quite quickly on this because we you know listening to members concerns this week there’re the quotes that we’ve got there have been
Discussions with the supplier that we have and that we’re in contract with there is also a risk we might not get those vehicles um I’m going to pass over to Sam shortly just to highlight some of the the issues surrounding Supply um but bearing in mind the financial
Constraints it as I say it would be remiss of us as officers not to highlight the cost difference between what was initially proposed to what is currently proposed we absolutely respect the decision that uh members have put forward in the last week not to purchase vehicles and to lease them until there’s
A suitable EV replacement available which is which is fine but it is a significant change in funding it’s hard to say at this moment in time when that vehicle will be available on the market um we we we can’t put a time frame on it it depends
When the technolog is there and when the manufacturers are willing to produce vehicles that meet that necessary standard Sam is there anything that you’d like to add thank you Ash um just a couple of points there so just getting down to the Integrity of of of no like for light
Vehicles the real reason for these five vehicles is for towing so um our mowing teams and our Parks teams as well as our cemeteries teams uh need to tow mini diggers dumpers water Bowsers and mowers and there is currently no electric vehicle none at all that that canant to
Um and that really is kind of the end of the discussion because that that isn’t available to us in in electric form unfortunately um the trajectory of the um technology within electric vehicles coming from the experts that we speak to is that the distances and the safety
Around temperatures is more more of a focus than than Towing and they haven’t had a focus on the towing ability for the last three years so as right as Ash rightly points out we don’t know when that when that turnaround would will be um that doesn’t mean there isn’t other
Vehicles on the fleet that would fit with the electric availability out there but for these particular vehicles um that’s the that’s the pressing point that they are able to tow um the difficulty with the leasing is that we are in a contract as most of you will know um and when we’ve spoken
To them about the possibility of getting um five vehicles by the end of March which is when we would begin our mowing season um they currently have one that would fit our our specification that would need um editing for towing um they don’t know if they’d be able to get
Those five and obviously those are based on discussions we’ve had over the last uh 48 Hours uh See since this request has come in um that doesn’t mean we we can’t find them elsewhere that just means we’d have to go through um a waiver process through yourself and CLT
To come out of that contract to be able to purchase the vehicles that that we need to to look for um and trying to find those eight weeks before mowing season um is is not going to be easy but again we will we’ll do our best if that
Is what council has wish us to do yes thank you chair this is um not an amendment this is a revised officer recommendation this is a recommendation that was put forward uh by uh bu offices at quarter past 4 this afternoon and the officers uh put forward recommendations if they consider them to
Be sound and deliverable so on that basis we have to assume that if officers put forward a recommendation they consider it sound and deliverable is that the case please chair if I can I’ve been very clear with members who I’ve spoken to that there were challenges in doing this
But we will do our absolute utmost to make it work but there are risks Associated to it but we are listening to what members have asked of offices and we’ve taken an alternative view with an option to consider leasing um although as I’ve said and I think it’s really
Important important to labor the point it will be a higher cost than we have already um requested from the capital program because we don’t know uh when those Vehicles will be available so whilst we can make it work it is likely to require additional funds and those that have already been
Approved thank you councelor Shelly question thank you um just a straightforward one I think unless I’ve missed something um are we not in a position where we can extend the life of the existing Fleet in order to delay this decision through you chair um unfortunately due to covid we’ve already
Had to do that these vehicles should be on our program for six to eight years they’re coming up to 10 um and in line with um the climate change um movement that we wanted to do any vehicles that are less efficient and if there is more efficient vehicles um out there they
Were to be prioritized on the program so whether they were even um 5 years old with there still an opportunity to make their emissions more environmentally friendly by going with a Euro 6 engine over a eur5 um so yes we’ve already extended their life by two or three years they’re currently costing us
Between five and 10 grand in maintenance and that’s a lot of time for three mechanics um so I hope that answers your question it it does indeed thank you just as a followup to that if we were to acquire the new diesel vehicles um have you done any calculations about that
Their resale value if we were able to move to an electric Fleet sooner than we are perhaps fearing yes thank you through you chair um yes we have I think that’s an important um point to to raise because by buying these vehicles we’re not saying we cannot meet or we’re not
Trying to meet um members decision to be Net Zero by 2030 we’re saying it’s the best opportunity we have at the moment with these vehicles to become a more efficient service now because these vehicles have a euro6 engine um if we were selling these between a year and 3
Years they would probably maintain up to 60 to 75% of their value um be uh because the drop um sorry because the the drop in emissions and the equality base is we can see these vehicles being past the national basis of 2030 so the diesel vehicles that you would be
Purchasing secondhand would be the euro6 so yes that’s the information that we’ve got again these are based on conversations over the last 48 Hours tried to get hold of councilor gret’s question uh so my question is would it be a suitable compromise for us to buy vehicles as suggested as recommended and
Then later putting them uh back into the secondhand Market in two to three years Time by which time the availability of electric vehicles may be better served uh through you chair um following the trajectory of the technology I can’t say that within two or three years that we’d have that have
The fit for purpose on on Towing um but I can see that as a um I can see that as a as a credible Amendment Yes counc W Council W thank you uh so kind of um a question about Towing actually because I was under the impression that a even a
Standard a family electric car can tow up to 2,500 kilg so I was just a bit puzzled that you said there was no vehicles on the market at the moment that could that could tow so what sort of Weights are we looking at um and then my followup supplementary question to
That then links back to kind the engines again so you say a Euro 6 is it also add blue so what are the actual emissions outputs from the vehicles themselves um so even if they’re using diesel are they polluting our communities uh so two questions there uh through you chair so for the
First one sorry um I’d be more specific so there is no rigid tippers that will hold Towing and uh the weights we’re looking at is about 900 kg that we been looking at to toe um on 3 and a half ton V Vehicles so there’s no three and a
Half ton rigid tippers that can provide that toe in so apologies for that um the second question yes they do take AB blue um I would have to go I can find the information out for you in terms of the uh emissions from these particular
Vehicles I can find that out for you and get that get the information to you well yes yeah councelor peacock uh I was just going to I was just wanting to know if is that 47,000 per 6 months versus 66,000 up front are those truly like for like figures because doesn’t leasing normally
Come with some costs included that you’d have to pay yourself if you own the vehicles through you chair um yes so I would say that’s the minimum amount so in terms of um leasing an highs that we’ve experienced before because they are um industry vehicles and very well
Used there’s always a cost of returning them so that’s between 6 and 10 grand that we’ve had at the moment however the so the costings that we’ve got at the moment is the 166 G would buy the uh five vehicles outright and the 47,000 would be to um hire those Vehicles
During the months is the during the months of the mowing so it’s about six months does that answer your question oh I see we’d only need them for six months so it’s £47,000 per year potentially um well we need those vehicles at least for six months I can’t tell you in six
Month’s time or a year that this technology would be changed but yeah it’ be at least six months that we’d be asking for that so say if it’s a year we’re spending 100,000 on higher when 166 Grand can be purchased of those Vehicles Council Hobson question uh yeah
The little one to carrying from that one so if you paid uh nearly 100 grand for one year you couldn’t just get a lease for one year anyway could you you’d have to get a long-term lease for that anyway wouldn’t you you couldn’t just at lease
For one year could you yes you’re right in ter well in terms of Leasing and hire there can be differences but I suppose in terms of our immediate need for mowing but they’re not just going to let you lease something just for that short period of time five vehicles speci
Unlikely so it’s going to be a higher cost they may not be suitable and we might not be able to get them in time and it just seems like obious it’s the world’s gone mad Paul’s told us how we’ve got to be aware of financial challenges I no expert but these diesel
Vehicles they’re much more efficient than they used to be somebody has put pressure on these officers on the last minute to come with a of order can we have a question please it’s ridiculous do you do counc Hopson yes thank you councelor Wilson thank you um thank you chair um
It was really around the question of uh this feels really quick if it’s suddenly eight weeks to do this why is it all a surprise now and I think that’s probably where some of the conversations have led is because it’s felt rushed and I think people have felt a little bit backed up
As a result of that and I think why are we doing this so close to the mowing season I think we’d all buy into this and I think we we slowly are but we need to understand that time frame and why it was so short I’ll take that chair if you don’t mind
Um because the report was about moving finances a vehicle replacement program is a rolling program that’s in place and it’s got a rolling program for five years so it’s it’s not rushed in that sense we’re not we were not asking members to determine which vehicles we should purchase the conversation around
The finances and why we’re financing and what it’s F financing it for has evolved into that discussion officers um mainly samanther the garage foreman and Joe Hill have been involved in reviewing that program and identifying which vehicles are suitable to get us where we need to be over the over future years so
That is not rushed that program has been uh presented and and approved as part of the the corporate plan it’s only evolved into this discussion because of this report that’s why it feels rushed so it was it was not at all to do with vehicles it was just about the financing
Of councilor Sue berford please thank you chair um following on from previous questions and I wonder what could ask the officers as far as you’re able to say how far in terms of years are we off being able to to buy or lease electric vehicles that can actually do the job
That we that that we require them to do and also I’m just wondering following on from councilor gret’s question what’s the market like for 2 to three year old X vehicles uh that we use cuz presumably the Market’s not that big um through you chair um thank you for those so
Um I don’t have a crystal ball so I can’t tell you when they’re going to be able to um tow um but I can tell you there’s other vehicles on our program that lend themselves to Electric more easily so um the toilet cleaners roll because they are light vehicle goods and
They’re not carrying anything um the’re going distances between charging points Etc so you know they’ll be looked at in the next 18 months and um will be considered that’s actually one of the trials that hopefully should be coming um in the next few weeks to be honest
The others are the cage vehicles um there’s a good amount of uh research to say that they’re very positive in the summer they’re not not too great in the winter so we might have to have a winter trial of that one uh the pool vehicles that the supervisors and the uh team
Leaders use can also be electric so because we have eight or nine different types of vehicles just by buying these five does not mean we cannot make um significant changes to other areas of the fleet councelor Nash I think the bulk my questions been answered already but I am a bit confused
By the answer about needing Towing vehicles and that we can only lease them for half the year so I’d like to clarify that and then I’ve got a follow-up question if I can um the mowing season is six months but we do need these vehicles they would
Be kept more that was just the price that we were able to get a hold of in the last couple of days by able to talk to can we get these now can we have them for mowing season so that it doesn’t disrupt the next service that will come
On board and we would need them for for more than that as coun have highlighted it was just um the first price that we could get a hold of um in terms of to be able to present something to you um and sorry the second question was the second
Question is so if we were to lease these and there’s nothing on the horizon for two years we’re going to pay the best part of £200,000 when we could just pay £160,000 now it doesn’t seem sensible um yes I think to be honest I’ve got eight
People that still need to speak on this and I think we’re all getting the flavor of where we’re at so has anybody got any questions that we haven’t already covered about the size of the vehicles how what they can tow anybody right I have two questions sure
Completely I’ll just I’ll just I’ll just come to you in a minute then counselor like I was just trying to expedite this trying to get us to a bit of a better place if you know what I mean I’m mindful of the time some people didn’t
Want us to do another half an hour from half past 8 but they’ve asked some very interesting questions in that time however I just want to move it on so on my list is counselor dobs uh thank you chair two questions first of all um I don’t quite understand if it was planned
Why we were asked to shift the money from next financial year and my second question what does trialing actually look like presumably you get an electric vehicle and you use it presumably you pay something for that privilege but doesn’t that fit possibly into the program who’s going to answer that
One chair I I’ll take the first question if if that’s okay and I’ll hand over to Sam for the second one um it was a misunderstanding frankly um councelor dubs when um Sam and um one of Karen’s accountants we they regularly to review the budget position and vehicle replacement program Capital program so
On and so forth there was a misunderstanding as to when the clean and green um review was to to be implemented and would be finished um so the money had actually been transferred into the next financial year by by error not on anybody’s in particular part just
It was just an error and a misunderstanding um had that not have taken place we probably wouldn’t be having this discussion through you chair um the second question about demo and trials um actually yes so because we’ve got a uh a very good relationship with Nottingham City Council um who’ve been Consulting with
Us for the last 18 months um they have some vehicles that they will inter uh allow us to demo for for free um and there’s other companies that do want to come and showcase um the electric fleets obviously to get rid of those horor sters as well so we can actually trial
Electric vehicles for short term uh for free if I can just briefly come back not them were an early adopter but they their their Fleet reflects early adoption does it not yes it does so we’re also learning from some of their challenges so as part of their grant
Funding that they received from the government to be able to go full Electric in a certain amount of time they were um expected to have these discussions and encourage others and work through programs which is who we’re working with um with our vehicle replacement program and going through
And learning from them so we our last visit to them was last summer um when we actually started Ed looking at these vehicles so when we’re talking about um you know coming through it quickly this is actually kind of a six to eight month procurement process that we’ve that we
Have to go through uh to make sure that we have get the right vehicle for you Council Boon thank you chair um clearly the technolog is not here for uh vehicles yet with electric vehicles um leasing is very expensive so my question is if we purchase diesel vehicles what’s the life
Expectancy of those in other words how long will we have for the technology to catch where for the next time that we swap the vehicles through you chair so um that’s hard to tell because we we because we maintain our own Vehicles we perhaps keep them for a lot longer than
Perhaps others can so the the current vehicle replacement program has been between six and eight years now Co has chain shifted that significant uh significantly so we have been able to um I suppose put a plaster over um certain vehicles but there are others that absolutely need to be replaced
Um what was your second question sorry no that wasn’t a question how long we would have to for technology to catch up um obviously you there’s not a proper answer to that but but the point is that it would give us a chance if we purchase vehicles for technology to catch up it
Would sorry and yeah the trajectory of the of the technology that we’re seeing and that we’re talking about experts is that Towing isn’t high on their agenda it’s getting that distances out and um temperature concerns and particularly it’s it’s particularly those distances that we’re trying to make in terms of
Holding holding the amount of equipment so the towing doesn’t seem to be um in anyone’s high priority at the moment at at at present thank you right I was rather optimistic um there have been 16 questions down here um would somebody move that we go for
Another should we I’m going to say till 9:45 um so you’ll move it anybody second that please H councel Hughes seconding that all those in favor to go till 9:45 all those against and any abstentions please yeah that’s carried we’ll go on with mist councelor slack can we have
Two quick questions please yeah they yeah they’ be fairly quick questions two questions really um firstly uh you’ve known for quite a while that we coming to the end of the life haven’t you these vehicles you’ve said you kept them through Co therefore why didn’t we have
A workshop meeting say four three or four months ago so we could explain to all the members all this information you’re giving us now tonight we could have digested the information and that would have been more suitable to have a workshop meeting that’s my first question the second question is have you
Explored the uh idea of having used vehicles for for three or four years and then then if the technolog is there for IG you know or electric vehicles move into that area explore the have you explored are use having used vehicles thank you which will come a lot lot
Cheaper chair um I’ll take the first question attempt to to answer the second one some will pick up any any Loose Ends there but in in terms of why wasn’t it explained well the vehicle replacement program is an operational um matter the officers across the council as I’ve said
Before Joe Hill Samantha uh the garage Foreman review in line with costs whether it fits in with us moving towards the electric Fleet hybrid options as members are aware we introduced two hybrid vehicles um last year to the fleet uh so it’s not not necessarily something that we would
Bring to members to to ask your opinions on which vehicles we should purchase because we looked at those offices as professionals to make those recommendations that being said it does sit as part of the capital program uh which members have approved and in addition to that the update on the
Vehicle replacement program in terms of moving towards electric vehicles has been reported to the climate change working group it was first reported on the 3rd of July then on the 18th of September M and most recently on the 8th of January this year so whilst I understand councelor um Slack’s point
And I think there is some learning there in terms of presenting a report which is is why it’s noted in the amendment that we could bring something to C to help members understand how officers determine the vehicle replacement program and which vehicles are suitable or not I think that that is is a
Sensible Way Forward what I wouldn’t want to do is to get into with the greatest respect members picking which vehicles that officers should should be using in the clean and Green Team and I do say that with the greatest respect but it could become quite a lengthy meeting um on the second Point
Um in terms of second uh hand Vehicles Sam will be able to give it Greater detail but it I think we’re all well aware that the secondhand market for vehicles is is still quite inflated as it uh from previous years um and what it wouldn’t offer is the the uh technology
And reduced Emissions on on is unlikely to offer the technology for euro6 and and AD blue technology and given the concerns that members have raised with the salon ey over the last few day days um environmental issues are a primary driver there thank you councilor G thank you very much yeah I’m slightly
Bamboozled that this has gone on half an hour at the beginning the offic has explained to us the situation the diesel vehicles do the job I was at Ashford Parish Council last night they were asking me if we’re going to meet their service level agreement in about five or
Six weeks we need to give them the authority to get on with this the green electric vehicles won’t do the job these we need point of can can we have a question please thank you yeah well the question is why are we sitting here now debating this when we need to give the
We need to trust our officers to do it because councilor Hughes chair I move that we move to a vote thank you chair can I ask for a recorded vote on the recommendation which is actually spelled incorrectly um but can we have a what we know exactly what we voted for
So our residents know exactly what their counselors have voted for with spending money right there’s been a recommendation that we move to the vote but first of all we want somebody to move it so is anybody body prepared to move this revised officer recommendation councelor O’Brien well I’ll move the
Recommendation chair but I have to say I think we I’ve been led a mered dance and I think we’ve all been led a Mery dance I have to say I’m sorry to have to say this but I think we been had a merry dance over the
Past couple of days a number of us asked that officers give consideration a reconsideration to this um proposal uh in order to see if we could bring the um acquisition of these vehicles more in line with our climate change action plan um we left it to officers and we asked
Officers to come up with a proposal which they were happy with we put no pressure on them we said you come up with a proposal we you’re happy with if you if you don’t have a proposal you’re happy with tell us and they came up with a a proposal they
Tweaked it at quarter past 4 this afternoon and it’s the proposal you have in front of us now they have now spent the past half an hour telling us why that recommendation that they put to us is not feasible now what what sense is there in
That why have you put a proposal to us a recommendation to us to approve and then spent half an hour telling us why you don’t support it I moved the recommendation chair does that find a second please yes it’s the revised it’s the revised one councelor flitter put your
Microphone on and just say what you want to say I’m still looking for a second to councelor O’Brien’s well let that a second to go and then I I need to correct some things does council O’Brien’s revised officer recommendation the one on the separate piece of paper here does that find a seconder
Please that’s not I’ll second it chair just to let it go to the vote otherwise um I think it’s important that people know um I think this has all come about through a very unfortunate set of circumstances and I think if it had been done in a different
Way we might have been of a different opinion and we wouldn’t have this amendment but I’ve been contacting members and encouraging them in this particular direction because I thought there was an inconsistency of direction of change and going for green vehicles with what was proposed it also came as a
Huge shock when I had this agenda to find that this huge amount of money was going to be spent within days of us making a decision that always red flags things to me and I I I was very worried about it I now know a great deal more
Than I did um an hour ago no more than that three hours ago and C 36 hours ago thank you thank you so so the revised officer point point of order chair I’m going can you just have a quick point of because what what are you calling a
Point of order about if we vote on this and vote it down are we just not isn’t the whole thing then off the table shouldn’t we shouldn’t someone else propose that we go back to the original no that will happen will it because this is the recommendation now this is if
Before us if this doesn’t get voted then somebody else can put another recommendation on the table okay okay right so it’s been moved and it’s been seconded and councilor fletter do you wish to talk in debate uh yes I do on this revised officer recommendation
Thank you um I I just have to say chair um by 5:00 tonight i’ just about lost the will to live uh because there’s been so many emails so many different points of view and I think it’s been rather unfair on our officers on some of the comments made
Tonight um they’ve done a sterling job I’ve got a lot of respect for the officers involved uh and to put them in this position is really not acceptable I’m unsure whether I can support this uh this amendment tonight uh because we we’ve you know you know me
I’m I’m not an idealist I’m a realist and I’m in full support of all the green issues that you know affect this Council and I sincerely hope that we can move to that Target by 2030 but let’s be realistic about this spending £47,000 for six months within two years we’re
Going we’ve going to pay as much if not more with maintenance on those Vehicles than what we did if we’d have bought them which will last approximately 8 years so you know as as I think as well and I have to say this but I think this
This item on the agenda has been hijacked to suit some personal views because this was about bringing forward a program that’s already been agreed to cater for a few vehicles that are no longer fit for purpose now I don’t want to be sat here answering questions in
Six month’s time why that service has failed because we’ve not supplied the vehicles that is wanted there I think it’s rather remiss of people to take this attitude and it’s really concerning me that we’re not been realistic in our views um and I certainly urge that we we
Give the officers The Authority that they had but is wanting just to do it a little bit quicker than what was expected because if we don’t we’re going to be asking questions about the public to the public about why this service hasn’t been done and that’s been pointed
Out by few members opposite that we really need to get on work with this we don’t want to be hanging about we don’t want to be spending money unnecessarily and we want to be able to provide a service that’s fit for purpose thank you councelor butle are
You wanting to come into this debate I’d very much like to say a few words if that’s okay um I’m I’m I agree with Steve that we don’t want to be wasting money but I’m very concerned about the fact we’re failing as a society to meet our carbon budget we’re looking at
2% uh no two degrees C over the next few years like we certainly hit 1.5 already uh everything is just spiraling into disaster and if we can’t Venture £46,000 on avoiding disaster then we are totally doomed and so while I’m absolutely in favor of not wasting money I don’t think actually
Bringing a full and proper discussion to council about well to the community environment um committee about what’s the best way for us to try and manage the transition to electric vehicles and to actually bring it out out of the clean and Green Team and into into the
Public uh Arena of uh you know Democratic accountable what we what it is we’re here to do so although I do agree with Steve that we really shouldn’t be wasting money I think we have to take this make this choice and vote for the amendment put forward by or proposed by Peter
O’Brien thank you no we’re not can we just stay right finally councelor Hughes and then we’ll move to a vote thank you chair um I I support fully what uh councilor flitter and councelor Hobson have said 140 £60,000 that’s um 166,000 against £47,000 for 6 months it means
That if we bought the m vehicles and we scrap them after two years we would we would be in we would be in profit so if electric if an electric vehicle suitable for this purpose comes available in two years we will we will have made the best economic decision if one doesn’t come
Forward in two years then it will definitely be the best economic decision there isn’t a vehicle that will do the job now we’re putting sticking plasters on the vehicles that we’ve got it seems to me that there’s no option but to do what uh the officers originally recommended thank
You thank you Council Hobson I need to ask you a question before we go to the vote is this the vote that you’re wanting the recorded vote on I’m wanting a recorded vote on the recommendation the offices recommendation right so does anybody second that recorded vote please yes this one that we’re about
Right does does excuse me can we just have a little bit we’re just trying to get through this business and I know it’s not easy and it’s not easy from up here right you so Council Le is second that all those in favor of a recorded
Vote yeah right well it’s been I’m not sure whether we need right can we just have a vote on the recorded vote please could I just sum up please chat I’ll come all those in favor recorded vote please is that carried Lucy carries no right so we will have a recorded vote
Right now it’s for councelor O’Brien to sum up and then we’ll move to the vote uh chair well I I I want to apologize for my intemperate use of words um it it is an issue which I I feel strongly and I very much agree with the the points made by councelor butle
Uh you know there is a cost to there’s a financial cost but there’s an environmental cost and we have to weigh weigh one one against the other uh what I would say that if if I had been told that it was not there was no electric vehicle uh possible as a
Replacement uh and therefore the electrification proposal was a non-starter I think we could have saved a lot of time thank you chair thank you very much so we’re going to have a recorded vote if we can Lucy the second one this evening so this is we are now voting on the revised officer
That’s the one on the piece of paper from Council O’Brien’s motion so we’re all aware thank you Lucy councelor Archer councelor Bates councelor Bon councel Bond councelor booy councel Booker against councelor bfor Martin bfo sorry councelor Sue bfo councelor Burton against councelor butal for councelor Chapman against councelor dobs for councelor Edwards
Walker councel flitter councel Franks against councel G councelor gret councel Hobson against councelor Hughes against councel Le pleas against councelor ly weight against councelor melstrom against councelor Murphy against councelor Nash against councelor O’Brien for councel peacock against councel Ripton against councel Shelly against councelor slack against councelor Wayne against councelor Whitehead against councel
Wilton against so that motion has fallen would anybody else like to put up a another councilor flitter yes chair um I would like to show full support to our officer’s original recommendation and I’d like to move that I I was going to Second it in full solidarity with our offices I think
They’ve been put under extreme pressure and I’m absolutely poor that we’re in this position this evening thank you so that’s been moved and seconded do we need any more debate that’s the answer I wanted so we’ll move to the vote on the original motion on the agenda item which is to
Approve the transfer of £ 166,167 from the 2024 25 budget vehicle replacement program capital budget to the current year for the purchase of fleet vehicles are are you wanting a recorded Vote for This anybody no we’ll just move straight to the vote all those in favor of that please and all those
Against all those all those abstaining that motion is carried thank you right we need to move on to the final item uh but I just need to mention to everybody that uh there is the possibility of going into um a closed session if we start discussing or want
To discuss anything to do with specific um on uh on the actual contract with freedom Leisure so I would just urge people to exercise caution in anything they want to say if they do want to do it I’m happy to put the item into closed session so it’s item number 15 I’m
Moving to now the freedom Leisure additional funding due to the in cost increased cost of energy and uh Asher you going to deliver this I will do chair I’ll open the report and I will keep it brief um thank you Dave tur is with me who has been liasing
With with freedoms contract manager and and freedom Leisure generally but in terms of the report um this has come as a result of a request from our service provid Leisure service provider Freedom Leisure um returning members will be well aware of of previous requests but
But for the benefit of of new members um we had a request in November well prior to November 2022 uh that was approved in in in that November for support with increased cost in utilities and the council approved um no more than £24,000 in support at that time in
February 2023 Freedom Leisure returned with a request for £ 730,000 in uh for support with increased utilities that was not agreed didn’t even make it to council decision officers hiled a workshop with members members outlin their concerns which was shared by members that was related to Freedom Leisure Freedom Leisure returned
After trying to renegotiate certain energy contracts and make amendments to to service and in June 2023 they returned with a reviewed position requesting £45,000 in support again this was not a agreed officers had a workshop with members outlin the concerns that again was supported by me members um there was
A feeling that there would be some willingness to support but not at the level um that was proposed Freedom Leisure at the time um have re in June received some funding from central government and they have been able to renegotiate contracts and they have since returned with an amended um
Version which equates to £51,000 over three years um I need to make members aware that as with previous levels of support that the council offered Freedom both in covid and with the increase in utility costs this isn’t a check that we’re giving to Freedom it isn’t a full amount
It is uh evaluated and reviewed on a monthly basis in the contract meetings between Dave Turvy or Rebecca Cummings when she’s she’s not on maternity leave and it’s done through open book accounting so where Freedom haven’t required the funding we have not paid the money they’ve been fairness to them
They’ve been very frugal during the co covid period uh and I’ve highlighted um the costs where they asked for up to £ 366,000 during the pandemic but in fact only spent 82,6 70 so the council didn’t spend the full amount that may be the case in this instance but we’re asking for the
Allocation uh as outlined in the recommendation over the three years um with a an important point to note in recommendation three that we will insist that any funds provided by the council is ring fenced by freedom for the count the the darish Al’s contract is not to support their business
Elsewhere that’s it from me chair thank you councilor flitter question yeah just one question chair um it’s been brought to um well I’ve had con conversations with uh a few members that are interested in showing Faith uh with uh Freedom Leisure um and the question came
About uh can we actually move into an extension of this um contract with freedom at this time and I’d like to know from the officers what their opinion is on that noting that we are in a contract and there may be limitations chair there there is there is a
Mechanism within the contract that was built in for discussions should we wish to to to pursue that um however there are certain criterias that we need to consider we also need to have a clear view on public procurement regulations and where we stand with that so I can’t
Give a definitive answer tonight but if it’s something that members wish for us to explore as officers we can do that councelor Whitehead uh thanks Ash uh good report kind of completely understand kind of uh why we need to spot this support so just two questions on it uh one is can a
Report are saying that we’ll see energy costs uh can see some significant decreases over the next 12 months uh The cornall Institute to track the data I think that so is there will there be anything built in that if we do see energy costs coming down will there be
Uh some movement in terms of the agreement with freedom Leisure that’s question one uh question two is uh really from for an officer’s uh kind of point of view not a freedom Leisure just in terms of contingency planning kind of are We Are we well prepared for all the kind of
Eventualities uh should we get to the next contract period and kind of kind of just just so kind of just want to sort insurance that we we plan the contingency for whatever the risks are and that could be Services falling back to us or continuing with freedom um but
I just wanted that assurance that we do that that planning really early and we don’t leave that to like the last late year of the contract yeah thank you chair um on the first point in terms of the change of energ energy tariffs and prices they are
Looking to sort of negotiate and get better prices at all opportunities which we have just seen come in so some of the figures um members will remember from the meeting we did in June you you saw sort of extraordinary um increases for ashborne they were nearly 500% you know
That has come down drastically um they’ve got a new deal that came in actually on the 5th of January so they do start to profile into the um assumptions those figures um it’s not all known yet because a lot of the project projects that we’ve been doing as well under the um decarbonization
Work a lot of that’s also just came into place so actually getting complete figures and actuals they’re not at that stage because they’ve not had a year to sort of Base it on but they are always reprofiling on the new energy costs and new projects that are going
Ahead I’ll pick up the second point if I can chair um in terms of contingency planning we’ve got just over four years left on the current contract it is part of our risk register to to monitor those we we have the um contract meetings the monthly contract meetings as as I
Mentioned earlier we also have an annual performance review of service and contract performance um so we we monitor their position with that it took approximately two years to procure or to Outsource um the the service and I would anticipate it would take something similar having said that if we the worst
Case scenario Freedom would to fold um we operated that service prior to Freedom taking on the contract so we do have expertise and understanding of those facilities it would obviously require a significant increase in in costs uh and it would be a decision that members would have to take uh but in
Terms of making sure we could open the doors yes thank you very much could we councelor Hughes could we have quick questions now please thank you thank you chair um this is I’m fully Ware of the numbers for the next year um for the electricity costs in ashborne which do
Seem to be very very high can I come to uh another point though that uh you we are currently looking at projects for spending UK SPF grant funding and it seems to me that looking at the electricity usage in ashborne and the electricity usage in um Matlock over and
Above the combined heat and power uh provision in Matlock there is is an opportunity for uh placing solar panels uh mitigating some of that electricity use through the use of through solar panels over the car parks in those areas and it strikes me that is potentially a
Good use of UKF funds can I ask that the that a proposal is made to Steve capes uh on the basis that um for for funding um through the through the UK kpf fund uh the provision of um solar uh solar panels to provide electricity for ashborne and Matlock and potentially for
Any of the other centers it’s doing a calculation the the electricity usage in in Matlock is about the same as 1,500 houses so there is a considerable amount of electricity used in ashborne and the same is true now of ashborne having having moved to uh heat heat and to um
Heat pumps so can I suggest that this would be an important and very valuable uh benefit in terms of reducing our carbon emissions far greater than um moving to five electric uh Tois thank you much thank you Council Hughes thank you chair um just sort of
On the sort of upgrades and changes the the decarbon decarbonization programs were very much um tailored towards the climate change initiatives from the government at the time so that is why we’ seen such a sort of large increase in costs with the then this was done
Back in like 2021 so now with the electric the Tariff increases that’s caused a bit of a increase in cost which is is a problem that we’re having to deal with in our own buildings not just the Leisure centers we have got um 217,000 worth of bid in with swim
England sport swimming pool support fund which we do an answer any time in the next two weeks to whether we’ve been successful or not um I wouldn’t get any hopes up there because it was very much over subscribed and they do look at things like area of deprivation and
Buildings really at risk of closure um but if we do get anything from that obviously we’ll be able to even do more work and it does include solar panels the S Pool sites to thank you coun obri if that fails can we move to can we look at the
Ukpf councel yes thank you chair in their submission to us um in support of the request for the £11,000 um Freedom Leisure of uh offered that uh their forecast for next year 20242 is predicated on what they term a review of viability and sustainability of incenter products can you can you confirm what
What it precisely is meant by the review view of viability and sustainability of incenter products does it for example mean the cessation of certain products or services such as swimming lessons or in fact swimming swimming entirely and why is there not any conditionality on the recommendation
To um support the um support the uh funding to the tune of 151,000 why is that not conditioned on um the current in incentive products being retained and certainly not um having their pricing increase to uh exorbitant levels chair um in just to to give some some reassurance to to councelor O’Brien and
Other members um when when the contract was drawn up and it was agreed it was part of the discussion with members in fact I recall it being part of the report that was proved by members there were certain aspects of the service that we protected and that was things like
Swimming lessons it was um ensuring that um concessionary rates couldn’t um concession rates or certain Services couldn’t be inflated Beyond inflation whereas other aspect of the service such as gym memberships they could be Market driven they could allow to be competitive uh because it is a competitive market but there were
Aspects of the service that we’ve protected and freedom Leisure couldn’t just stop swimming lessons if they wanted to it would have to be through discussion with the district council and that isn’t something that we would support so there are products and services that they can change certain activity sessions or or classes that
They do that’s within their prerogative and that’s the contract that we drew up but there are protected um programs um and and prices within the contract councilor slack uh thank you chair very quick question uh if Freedom leur uh uh energy bills go down through uh solar panels at
Works with Ashburn and Matlock will that uh saving be be passed on to us or will it be returned to us some way as thank you chair sorry as sort of mentioned when Ash presented the report this isn’t just sort of a check for that amount so any
Savings that could be made whether that’s through um increasing income or a better energy or less consumption of energy then the amount given would be less if they can get to that not being a deficit in the second in year two or three then we wouldn’t be paying them
Anything these are just the profile figures and the predictions at this stage thank you Dave Council Hobson thank you chair Council Hughes raised the point I was going to raise about decarbonization and Dave’s answered the question I think it’s something we do need to bear in mind most definitely councilor Booker
Finally yeah um there’s been a there’s been a successful pilot of uh deep green data centers um recently um I I don’t know whether we officers have seen that um octopus energy have um uh advised they’re going to do another 150 of them um have we investigated that for for
Matlock um which uh because there’s a significant Savings in terms of heating water available from that from them the cost of which is is zero for us to do thank you thank you chair uh we we are aware of those um I was um involved in the the
Initial discussions around that and I know that it is something that’s still being explored but the the initial thought was that those data centers need to be relatively close to facilities or larger buildings which we didn’t with servers um I don’t profess to be an
Expert on this by by any means but that was the initial feedback that we got and there wasn’t any suitable sites within within range that being said I know that similar um and perhaps the same is still being explored it’s something that I’d have to
Have a chat with Joe Hill about and I can come back to you on it but it is something that we were aware it made the national news um but like I say I am no expert on that field thanks that’d be great that’s great well we’ve had the
Questions and now um we’ve got three recommendations on the report would anybody like to move any recommendations Council Whitehead does that find a seconder councelor peacock second in do you wish to make any comment councelor Whitehead no just happy to move to a vote as quickly as
Possible right then so it’s been moved and it’s been seconded have we got anybody want to speak in debate councelor O’Brien uh yes chair I feel I need to point out that we’ve seen over the years of this contract with freedom Leisure a series of what I would call existential
Threats to the future of the swimming pool B Leisure Center um it’s been made clear in the presentation from Freedom Leisure that if this funding is not uh supported they will they will impose uh drastic cuts on the Leisure service so I’d like to take this opportunity to reassure the people of
Bqu that as long as myself and I’m sure my labor colleagues are Partners in this Administration bold pool will remain open thank you councilor flitter thank you chair well I was just going to mention something on those lines because there are members of the public that say well the money that
You’re spending could be spent elsewhere but it is our commitment as an alliance to uh fund and keep open Leisure centers uh and facilities for as long as possible um and we all know all around the country leisure centers and Leisure facilities are being cut um we want to
Keep that far in the future so we will be supporting and what we’ve got to remember is that although we paying out uh a large sum of money again this year it’s still a heck of a lot cheaper than what it would be if we had to run those
Services ourselves so I I give credit to our officers all the way around the the table that have been involved in these negotiations I do have some concerns because there are some members of the public complaining that things like facilities within the ledure centers are
Not up to standard I did raise this a couple of months ago but I would like our officers to investigate uh on their deliberations so that we’ve got a high standard facility costed out and I give this full support right thank you very much um councel
G yeah just one last one yeah I’d like to reiterate that that my understanding is that in agreeing to this additional funding to Freedom Leisure because we had that large meeting was it last summer that it is on the basis that the keeping the same service level agreement
In terms of opening hours at all four Leisure centers including of course Bal which is close to my heart but ashborne works with h Matlock and also I should point out I’ve got some eyes on the ground having two daughters who are lifeguards at so they tell me what happens
There right then so it’s been moved and it’s been seconded and so can we move to the vote on the three recommendations as an agender item 15 sorry uh all those in favor any against any abstaining no that’s great so that brings us to the end of the business and
I’d like to thank everybody for taking the time and their patience thank you good evening
1 Comment
What a load of dead wood