Expensive Bike Stuff That’s Actually Worth It (And Stuff That Isn’t) – The Wild Ones Podcast Ep.32

Check out the audio versions of the podcast here: https://podfollow.com/the-wild-ones/view

This week we chat about Shimano’s new venture into AI-controlled bikes, where to save and where to invest your money when it comes to cycling stuff and overrated cycling clothing. Here’s the full breakdown:

00:00 New year, new Jimmi
03:40 I think we upset GCN
08:16 Shimano to introduce AI into bikes?
17:25 UAE Emirates kit supplier messed up…
20:02 The truth about cycling clothing – buy cheap or invest?
33:11 Nic’s cheap winter glove hack
34:39 Tools: buy cheap or invest?
36:31 Bike lights: buy cheap or invest?
38:00 Helmets & accessories: buy cheap or invest?
41:46 Bar tape, inner tubes,sealant & tyres: buy cheap or invest?
44:06 Overrated/Underrated: doing your own bike maintenance
46:31 Overrated/Underrated: cycling press reviews
51:28 Overrated/Underrated: Pas Normal Studios cycling clothing
55:16 Overrated/Underrated: cameras on bikes
56:52 Nic almost left his wife at the airport (FUOTW)
57:50 The best winter bike cleaning hack yet?!

If you’d like us to send in a question, story, some good news, things you’d like us to discuss or anything else, email us at wildonespodcast@cademedia.co.uk
Thanks and see you next time.

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Welcome to the Wild Ones podcast episode 32 this is the show where we chat about bike stuff I’m Jimmy and this week I’m back with Pro mechanic Nick and producer Emily how are you Jimmy I’m good um I have started the new year with a new

Routine I know we’re like three weeks in now but I’ve been decorating the house so furiously I haven’t had a chance to get into it do you want to know what my routine is now tell me so firstly I have a daylight alarm clock which starts at

6:00 a.m. daylight only starts at 9:00 over here mate yeah exactly which is why I have a daylight alarm clock so I’ve been getting up just after 600 nice and relaxed it’s a really nice way to wake up go downstairs have a coffee got myself 10 15 minutes to kind of wake up

A bit then 6:30 until 7:30 I’m doing one hour of learning so whatever that is today I was learning what we were covering in this podcast then from 7:30 until 8: I do food prep so so for example making a nice pasta sauce for dinner later in the

Day or making lunch so that I’ve got lunch if we’re in work or whatever 8:00 until 10 8 10 minutes of meditation followed by stretching mobility and strength work SL conditioning so like you know making my body actually work shower 10 minutes allocated to shower then have breakfast

And do a day’s work doesn’t finish there though there’s then also an evening routine so finish work 5 half five whatever it is 6:00 approximately 1 hour of cardio followed by a shower of course then a couple of hours to do whatever I want then it reconvenes then at 9:00 where I

Read for half an hour to an hour and then go to sleep that just sounds horrible to me I wake up and fight the toddler from 4:00 in the morning until I finally get a passed off to somebody else and then come ride to work I’ve

Just remember there’s a bit I missed I think at 7:00 where I have Al allocated time to play with the dog for about 20 minutes proper New Year New Year isn’t it yeah how long will it last though that’s the question my only New Year’s resolution for last year was to learn

How to wheelie properly maybe do a bigger Bunny Hop and well obviously I’ve had to roll that on over to 2024 as well so we start again that’s that’s new me I I think my inspiration for actually having a routine is and and I’m not being rigid

With it like if I if there’s a day I wake up and I’m really tired I’ll sleep more or if I’m too tired to do some exercise I just won’t bother but I’m I think I work best firstly I’m much more efficient in a morning than I am in an

Evening so it’s better to get up early and actually do some learning or whatever um and also I think I just respond better to having a bit of focus oh yeah there’s I think there’s 20 minutes allocated each day to doing some like house cleaning or like doing some

Clothes cleaning cuz otherwise I just don’t do it and then I get miserable because I’m like oh actually should probably ho the floor La whereas if I actually have time allocated to do that then it will be done and it’ll always I actually I I I was walking around the

House this morning just kind of going like this is great I’m really happy with this bet Emily’s loving it house is clean everything is done I know he’s making faster sources for lunch I’m I’m a I I hate uh people telling me what to do including myself if I create a

Routine I then feel very trapped by the routine I can’t do it it’s not not for me at all no I used to think I had no free time and I was tired and busy and then I got a kid and then I realized

That how not tired not busy I I was we are very privileged in that sense of we don’t know what tired is so guys I think we might have upset gcn oh no did you see that they finally address the hate that they were getting for that

Motorbike video yes if you missed it a couple of weeks ago on the podcast we talked about how a lot of gcn’s viewers seemed angry over a video where they compared bicycle and motorbike prices the episode of the wild one’s podcast is now one of our most listened to episodes

To date and the thumbnail for that video featured a big photo of Alex from gcn so I think they probably saw it because on a recent gcn Tech show they addressed the hate they acknowledged their angry viewers and admitted they probably didn’t phrase stuff right they then went

Back and discussed the topic of bike prices again and this time they were much more vocal about them being too high Nick do you feel bad for calling them out no not really the videos are produced so surely you sit down before and have a meeting about

What you going to say so think about it somebody must be stressed and I mean surely they employ quite a lot of people it’s not just a a Twan show I think they acknowledge the criticism really well I think it’s good that they’re not afraid to actually

Go maybe we should do things differently and I would like to Hope or uh think that maybe we have done them a favor and they start to understand better what is important in cycling and it isn’t being a pro cyclist it’s meane it’s I don’t blame them for it it’s one

Of those things when we will get things wrong because you live your life the way you live or I mean for instance I haven’t paid for a bike in years and years the only reason I know about the price is because I sell bikes to people where if you’re an ex-professional

Cyclist you’re not an expert on that topic because well you’ve not paid so you don’t know what those things when’s the last time they actually had to consider the price of a bike yeah gcn getting on the side of bikes are too expensive is a really positive thing for

Consumers because they are they are massive they have such big influence whether they realize it or not and I’m sure they do realize it they have such big influence with Brands and the whole the industry as a whole so them kind of doubling down and starting to realize consumers discontent with the

Price of bikes might actually assert some real change might it the prices are just going up because the brands realized they’re getting away with it yeah so yeah hopefully if somebody like them comes along and also says whoa slow yourselves down over here then I I love the idea that

Um more people with in influence like I like I see gcn as an ally rather than a competitor yeah and I would love it if they had if if you know if there was more big influence ual spaces that were campaigning essentially for similar things like for example better value

Then there’s much more influence you know whereas historically you’ve got a lot of cycling press journalism which is so dependent on money from the brands that they’re always a bit Tippy toey about what they do and what they say whereas I want more gcn being confident in kind of A

Narrative of the viewers you know at the end of the day they actually made that point as well they sort of said um because one of the criticisms that’s leveled at them quite a lot is that they have big sponsors and they’re always um sort of showcasing very new and

High-end bikes and the point they made was that ultimately they’re more interested in getting larger viewership and I don’t whether that’s true or not I’m sure you know if they say it is true I’m sure it’s true um ultimately that is exact L where they need to be positioned and that’s kind of

What we’ve always tried to do as well viewers first and then advertisers come but if you lose your viewers you don’t get the advertising money either so ultimately I think it’s I think they handled the criticism really well I agree Jimmy and also now that they see how angry their

Viewers are hopefully there will be a new train of thought but that that’s what I said with the about the magazines as well it’s reputation and if you guys and then them and a few others follow and do the same thing uh the sponsors won’t have anywhere else to go yeah so

They’ll still have to sponsor the the channels but and they will but the customer who’s the actual listeners and the viewers are going to get value for money yep which is what in the end should happen elsewhere in the news could bikes soon use AI to think for

Themselves well maybe so Shimano has filed a painton for a device which apparently uses AI to control a dropper seat post front suspension and saddle Tilt The Invention is designed to learn a Rider’s preferences in different situations it would then be able to automatically adjust the seat post

Suspension and saddle by itself mid rde the painted drawings also show a small screen attached to the handlebars this screen would allow the Riders to give feedback on the changes via thumbs up and thumbs down buttons this feedback would then help the device learn and make better decisions so we were talking

About this beforehand and you started listing numerous products that have automatic controls already yeah so shound flight attendant for your suspension uh shano auto shift uh for changing gears automatically on some of the ebikes you’ve got mcir elect which I think was in 2014 uh and then I think is that

Suspension suspension as well yeah um Fox does one as well I can’t remember what it’s called um and then you’ve got exposure react light where it essentially gets brighter or demo to save the battery get give you the most depending on what your the road surface is like I’m assuming the only difference

With this one is that it’s AI controlled and then learns but then I’m conflicted about that because you wanted to learn surely I mean I would just think somebody at one of these companies know more than me so they would just set it up to work right I I’ve tried to do a

Bit of digging on the painting it’s obviously uh we’re not paintting Specialists and there’s always going to be limited amounts of information that we can consume to understand it it seems that the painton is is in relation to a control module or a thinking module that controls a

Telescopic tube which is presumably The Dropper post and the suspension um and it’s I guess the AI or the machine learning part of that that they’re they’re trying to be or they’re trying to uh make as a unique product uh because obviously like you said they’ve already got auto shift so there’s

Something which automatically changes gears on the ebike stuff um I think it’s I I think it’s interesting that they’re looking at that as a thing um I guess looking at the idea of um again when we were talking earlier I the example I used was like cross country mountain bike Mountain

Biking someone like pidcock or whoever else are absolute experts and therefore no the best times to adjust the suspension and adjust this and adjust that although more likely they’re probably just leaving everything as is so the I guess the idea that they’re thinking of is that a computer can help

Make those decisions on behalf of the person although you’re giving it feedback so it’s actually around your preferences it it that’s yeah that’s what I mean like the question is is it a gimmick yeah yes some Stu’s good you mean like I I’m really bad for on mountain biking like having my

Suspension locked out when I’m riding up the trails and then just want I get to the top forgetting to open it up again and then halfway down the trail I’m trying to reach off with my hand to kind of unlock it again I’m the opposite so I

Did a bit of research on this and the this the stuff that I read suggested that an unlocked suspense you don’t lose any power from having a so I just have it unlocked all of the time whenever I’ve done mountain biking I’ve heard that as well recently and I do kind of

Yeah understand so but it’s more of that that’s a perception that’s why why I’m worried with AI because if you then say it might be doing really good stuff for you and then you click no no you don’t like it or you like certain things and

Then all of a sudden it’s you might as well be setting it to work worse I don’t yeah it’s it’s like high pressure sensors it’s nice to have but it’s not really I don’t know but who who’s it going to be for that’s what I don’t quite understand I don’t like I can’t

Imagine I would want to go let’s just say mountain biking or gravel riding extreme gravel riding let’s call it where I’m going to have a drop of post and suspension I I can’t really think of a scenario where I would want the bike to make a decision for me on the tilt of

The saddle and things like that the the Tilt I don’t get at all I mean surely that just changes your bike fit well I would yeah the I guess it I’m assuming it’s suggesting that if you’re climbing up a really steep climb it’ll change the angle or something or theot shows side

Of it is worrying I mean I I could understand with a mountain bike where your s Saddles tilted backwards for how you for descending but I mean that was on the ground yeah I don’t know um it’ll be interesting to see what they do with it but then also there’s a lot of

Patents going all the time it’s what what makes it to production and what’s actually going to work I mean I know in cars you get Audi did it years ago with the electromagnetic suspension where it stiffens up around the corners and things like that so if they do it right

Um like the this round flight ATT tendel I think you mean could be worthwhile for somebody that’s not got a team dialing everything and knowing what they’re doing it just automatically adjusts as you ride so it gets ster I mean you can optimize it for for pedaling you can

Optimize it for descending to try and put an example into where this technology might be used would be if I’m riding my bike on the flat on a very luscious lovely gravel path which is not very bumpy the suspension or the seat post would just be rigid seat post fully extended

Suspension firm so that I’m not bouncing around all over the place but if the bike detects that then I throw it into a downhill Trail it knows to loosen off the suspension and maybe drop the drop a poster but even with AI I think the other systems like the fox and mura and

The Shram already does that yeah CU it just essentially it can monitor I mean it’s the same as for instance I the M uh sorry the exposure light that’s just got a sensor in that like accelerometer so it realizes whether you’re climbing or descending and how rough the terrain is

And based of that it makes the light either brighter or dimmer right um there’s clever stuff out there it’s just I’d be more interested in gearing and to see for people that are training or racing it’s not me but Francis and James and all of them lot um where similar to

Turbo trainers but you got urg mode so let’s say you have to ride at a set am of wats where your your gearing is controlled or Cadence and things like that um to kind of so not for performance but but you’d still have to have something like the um like a

Planetary gear or what’s the classified wheels something which can change under load because otherwise you might be you know pushing 350 Watts or doing a Sprint and all of a sudden the gear changes if it’s a traditional front Mech rear Mech you you might be out of the saddle doing a full

Sprint and all of a sudden it decides to change gear which is not going to be a good idea but I I don’t think you need AI for that you you would just need I mean computors could do that already your garma knows whether you’re standing

Or seated if you’ve got power me the power pedals the the rallies so there there’s parameters you can set without the AI thing I think the extra bit that that gives you is that it’s going to learn from what you’re doing but then it’s yeah I I I don’t know how there’s a

Learned in terms of how does it make it better surely it’ll know from day one these big companies will be able to set it up to be Optimum somebody like pitcock could probably outperform it and then it could learn for him but for me it’s never

Going to it’s going to tell me I’m wrong well no because it would learned from you yeah what not to do so so for me I think generally AI is being used as a marketing gimmick um I had a conversation I don’t think I can’t remember if I’ve I think I’ve told you

About this but I don’t think we’ve ever disc discussed it on a podcast so a friend of mine a really good friend of mine um works for a very very large tech company and one of his specializations is uh Ai and all of the genius that that

Stuff does and I had a conversation with him about Ai and I was like you know is it something we need to be concerned about or you know what even is it like like what’s what’s the big deal and he basically said NE basically everything that we know about AI as we normal

People consumers isn’t AI it is machine learning which is a completely different thing it’s not actually artificial intelligence it’s just an algorith a very complex set of algorithms where it learns a preference and then applies that preference which is not AI um and as a result of that I just feel like it

Is just the new marketing buzzword is like oh it can it’s an AI this and it’s an AI that it’s it’s not it’s just a very complex algorithm yeah did you see UAE team Emirates kit supplier was left a little embarrassed this week M so the

Team has revealed its new 2024 kit and clothing sponsor Pei have been busy selling repli kits but they accidentally printed the logos upside down on the legs of the bib shorts and sent them out to customers without realizing so they had to recall the whole bunch I don’t

Think it’s too bad I mean for my bike rides most of the lads are upside down most of the time so it wouldn’t be an issue probably probably worked better as someone which has historically owned a kit manufacturing company I can definitely appreciate that errors and

Mistakes do happen um we have there has definitely been times in the past where kit has arrived things that we’ve ordered have arrived and they’ve just been wrong uh but that is always why we had very strict in-house quality control in addition to factory quality control

As well we would still do loads of stuff even when it arrived here so presumably if you know like the fact that this has happened it does happen the issue I guess is that someone hasn’t checked it before it’s left the building or they did and they thought it was good

Marketing ah just well bit yeah true although it isn’t perhaps of the clothing brand yeah I mean it’s an easy mistake to happen with I remember when we still owned atas pouring over um kit designs before they go to print and then obviously once you signed it off someone

Then on the other side is putting that onto a printer and printing it out so I was at rrap last week sewing bags together and a stressful sewing things so I mean tell us what you found out about rrap anything interesting uh just it’s quite impressive the setup how they do

Everything in house and it’s all in Yorkshire is that right yeah in leads right in the city center yeah um very very impressive how it’s all started as some kid in his basement making well not in his basement his back room yeah making pedal straps and then his mom

Helping out with some stuff and now it’s a massive company that makes all Poli things in the house it’s quite good because they they they’ll have meetings of they can decide a new product and then just print out some fabric and make something test it out yeah it’s good

That we’ve actually got British manufacturing as well because that is difficult is it Ura that also do make stuff in Scotland and I think they’re probably one of the only fabric based manufacturing things that exist in the UK we used to have so much Manufacturing in terms of but it’s just it’s almost

Two generations above and as it’s slowly being wiped out there the skill isn’t there I don’t think it’s a shame now on to our big question in your opinion which cycling items can you get away with buying cheap and which should you invest more money in we’re going to

Break this down into a couple of categories firstly is cycling clothing and we are going to start with jerseys go cheap go cheap h a t-shirt uh this year I’m not raring cycling jerseys anymore because it’s nice I understand for somebody who’s competitive it’s more errow and you’re slightly faster but I

Just like riding in t-shirts cargo pants have changed everything for me there is an argument for uh a technical t-shirt because in theory will it is less likely to smell if you sweat in it a lot over a long period of time um but I commuted for a long time just wearing normal

T-shirts and I like wearing normal t-shirts I even used to ride just out on gravel stuff with just normal t-shirts um you definitely don’t need to spend lots of money on jerseys technically you do not even need one however if you want one again don’t waste loads of money on

It um there’s a lot of Brands out there that are selling stuff that is not better quality for a lot of money if you are if you want a really really good quality Jersey there is stuff that you can get for 50 60 70 quid for a jersey

That is comparable in every respect the stuff that is closer to2 200 in my opinion yeah there is but I guess it’s like normal clothing isn’t it you you’re almost paying for designer for a for a label at some point yeah exactly you’ll obviously know a lot more than me but

You’re a full a normal cycling jersey with pockets and everything takes a lot more work to stitch together than a t-shirt yes so essentially like you guys did the The Tech T-shirts and out of all the atus uh tops that I own that was my favorite top yeah I mean I wore that

Probably most of the time I had to switch it out just because I didn’t ride the same top every single day but it’s yeah it was just I like it um that’s for me this year yeah you’re right there’s there’s a lot more construction cost in and actually you a lot more construction

Cost in stretchy Fabrics because you need specific type of machines and Machinists who they’re just they’re just harder Fabrics to work with so sometimes you’re paying for that in terms of uplift so I would not buy a cycling Jersey if it was entry level 100% polyester with zero stretch

In it I would wear a t-shirt instead of wear if if it was you have to wear this jersey I would just wear a bog standard t-shirt instead if I’m going to wear a cycling Jersey at the very least it is going to be a good quality fabric yeah

You find in in a normal cotton t-shirt bugs out of cotton they’ll have natural stretch anyway but what you usually find is uh they wear out and they get haully quite quickly M but I like I said I I wouldn’t spend money on a cycling Jersey

I’d buy for of was new day one don’t have anything I would save my money away a T-shirt and I spend the money that I’m saving on buying slightly better bib shorts so next on the list is shorts SLB tis um so good link there thank you very

Much back in our Atticus days we when we used to occasionally get emails from uh people that are new to cycling and one of the questions they would ask quite a lot is what is what do I need what’s the minimum amount of stuff I need and we would always tell

Them the minimum that we recommend is a good set of bib shorts um you don’t need a jersey you don’t need the other stuff but a minimum a good pair of shorts in our opinion is the minimum and it’s definitely a for me personally I would

Rather not wear shorts bib shorts at all and wear jean shorts than wear a pair of shorts that doesn’t work for me there is an element with shorts there is an element of personal preference so some people will just not get get on with certain pads I’m very fortunate to know

Specifically which pads across every single proper known pad manufacturer in the world which ones them work for me so I would be able to look at a pair of bib shorts by any manufacturer and know just by looking at it whether I’m going I’m

Going to get on with it or not yeah I mean b shorts is different to jerseys it’s not a thing of performance it’s a thing of not getting chafed to pieces and being comfortable in the bike if you can’t sit down your saddle can enjoy riding a bike when we’re talking good so

You’re both going with investing but you’re not necessarily saying buy the most expensive good and most expensive aren necessarily unanimous are there Sy that’s where the industry’s gone really wild at the moment I think is cu when I was starting cycling in the late ’90s and early 2000 Asos was the the gold

Standard and there were really expensive bib shorts where now almost everybody’s bib Shorts cost the same if not more than Asos and it’s well they still make really good bub shorts how much is an assle short these days uh good a Mele is £125 full retail before any discounts

One25 125 good I don’t know I don’t know if they’re good they probably are for some people they are excellent com I mean in terms of I’ve never had anybody ride one that didn’t like it um but obviously I don’t even think you need to spend that much but it’s yeah but then

There’s companies spending 400 quid for pair of bib shorts and you think it’s mad mad that yeah what I can tell you and is probably something that shocks most people is that quite often the manufacturing of shorts is in line with jerseys so there isn’t that so so so

You’ll you’ll find for well raap as a good example there’s a point where their Jersey this is a while ago mine they used to sell a jersey for about 120 quid and the matching shorts are about 190 quid but the chances are the manufacturing of those shorts cost about

The same as that Jersey yeah you make a higher profit margin on on shorts yes there’s just a categorically a higher margin on them but that that’s mental as well if you think about generally it’s black short where jerseys have to do loads of colors there’s more size runs

There’s more different and it’s like to Stock B short I mean I don’t know you probably know it’s easier to Stock B shorts and stock jerseys you can go safe and do two colors of b shorts but you can’t do two colors of jerseys and be like a actual

Brand it’s only recently that people started doing more colored B shorts anyway but you sell them less frequently because of that as well more people will have a say for example a set of shorts or two sets of shorts and multiple jerseys because of fashion I guess you

Know you want to wear something different so although you make a higher profit from your shorts you’re selling in a lot of cases less units than you would so should we move on to the next one yeah rain jackets I don’t think any of them work properly this is something

I’ve been looking into recently because I’ve been wanting a since I’ve moved to England and being cold and wet all the time decid I’m going to get a proper rain jacket and I’m busy bu riding one that costs £450 and it works amazingly but it’s

Just not worth the money and I know FKS to go do gravel with it’ll just tear on the first ride um I think people make the mistakes of trying to get rain jackets that are really tight fitting that’s made for professional athletes in racing so it’s

More eror I think if you go back to more the mountain biking style where it’s a bit more baggy you don’t have to I don’t know I might be wrong but I I don’t think you have to worry about the um breathability as much cuz air can flow

In from other spaces but still keep you dry uh my all my mountain bike rain jackets work better than my the ones that cost four times as much being a Road M yeah so my opinion is a rain jacket is the space where you invest you cannot get a good rain jacket

That isn’t very expensive it doesn’t exist yeah yeah yeah you mean like I say you don’t need it as often and you can keep it much longer so yes do invest don’t buy something because if you buy something cheap and it just you get wet

Then yeah it won’t work it won’t be R I do think be smart on how you spend your money don’t be just if you’re not going to be racing don’t focus on buying one that is Mega tight fitting rather get something that’s going to work slightly better um in terms of keeping you

Dry uh but it’s maybe a bit more baggy but that I think for me that’s part of the problem is a lot so if you are under so there’s there’s a water rating system for Fabrics if it’s under 20 th000 mm per Hydro or H Hydro head uh is is the

The method that they use they basically put it under pressure and see how much it can take yeah uh anything under 20,000 mm is not really going to be a rain jacket um the majority of rain jackets in the cycling space are 10,000 which is never going to keep you dry

Then what they do is that they and they put dwr Coatings which is basically an outside chemical coating which beads and their marketeers have convinced people that beading means that it’s better at keeping water out it isn’t it’s just an outside coating that will last a couple

Of washes and then wear off you have to retreat don’t you yeah and you have to retreat it and it will it never really treats that well it’s never the same as when you first get it beading does help the fabric work but it isn’t the thing

That is waterproof or not waterproof it kind of depends what kind of riding you’re doing if you’re if you’re looking at the at the weather and it says you know 40% chance of rain for an hour of your 4our ride for example you know there’s a slight chance you might get

Caught in a shower and if you get caught in a shower a 10,000 hydr head jacket for showerproof it’s going to do you you put it on you sort of get to a cafe or you get home or you whatever but if you happen to be out and it’s absolutely

Peeing it down from start to finish I mean it’s going to be a crap you’re going to end up wet ultimately you’re going to but that’s the same as like your legs are going to end up wet everything’s going to end up wet wet but

If if I’m getting caught in a shower I’m not even going to bother with a jacket I’m just going to let myself get wet cuz otherwise I just I just don’t see the point but you you’ll know better than me on this one but surely the problem isn’t

Getting a 20,000 that’s getting that fabric is not hard getting that fabric to be that waterproof and stretchable yes that’s hard and the breathability meaning what I’m getting as is I get if you wanted a tight fitting fitting like a normal cycling Jersey it’s incredibly

Hard but if you are happy to make it l I’ve got a sportful one which is loose fitting with the hood and everything um it doesn’t stretch at all but surely it’s much easier to make something like that it’s more waterproof you’re you’re completely right in the sense that if

You have a look at Outdoor Equipment if you go to any sort of outdoor warehouse you will find a lot of really really good fully waterproof fabrics and you can get access to them usually they’re insanely expensive and you have to buy them by the massive rooll but if you’re

A big clothing company you’ll be able to do that but you’re completely right in terms of what a person a person stance when they’re standing up versus when they’re leaning forward on a bike you’re stretching in a completely different way so you either have to have stretch in

Your Fabric or you have to make it really bugy which doesn’t Market very well it doesn’t sell very well because everyone thinks they need really tight um and yeah the other problem is breathability the more you close up to water the more you’re going to close up

To air coming out as well I mean my my 450 quit jacket fall down to like the size of half a sandwich yeah I’ll fit into my pocket which is perfect for does everything it’s over 20,000 definitely something to look for in a jacket is taped seams because your fabric can be

As good as possible but ultimately your seams there is a ho there’s basically a hole where every single part of the seam is so if the jacket has taping inside it it basically patches up those holes so it’s going to be a better product we we’re actually quite passionate about

Range jackets cuz we spent six years developing a rain jacket model and we never produced it did we absolutely beautiful I love that model so much I mean yeah we we’ve got so many samples of it and we were never ever ever happy with it to release it but the main issue

Was that we we went to we used the same fabric as outdoor shops were using but again it was insanely expensive and you had to buy it by Massive rules and ship it in from Japan and it was very very it wasn’t very viable for a small business

Was it and we just didn’t want to produce one that was rubbish and Jimmy never rode in the rain so didn’t get a chance to test it it was going to be something like 70 grand just for the fabric oh yeah it’s a lot other accessories like arm and leg warmers and

Gloves and I am do you know it’s it’s so arm warmers leg warmers buy the cheapest ones possible cuz you’re not going to wear them that much and you just want to keep yourself a bit warm gloves for me especially highlighted by what you showed me earlier it it’s the same sort

Of thing as the rain jacket the outside of cycling world have better stuff in the cycling world so I would now for a rain jacket probably not wear a cycling one I would probably wear a running jacket and gloves so gloves ski gloves for example no but it’s not even that

Gloves is a difficult one because from a bike Shop’s perspective we would always tell people you can’t get a good formfitting waterproof glove and warm weather glove cuz the waterproof ones are usually neoprene and they’re only warm when they’re wet if they if it’s dry if it doesn’t rain and you’re

Wearing them your hands are going to be cold and then really warm gloves tend to if they get wet your hands are cold again so it’s a bit of a you need two sets of gloves I’ve recently bought a set of do you do you actually want to

Tell everyone though so you want to keep it secret for a bit I mean no don’t get keep it tell everyone I know how you like keeping hold of this been testing it minus 4 this morning it’s unreal I bought a set of Cold Storage waterproof gloves off Amazon cost 13 quid fully

Waterproof flee lined inside my fingers were nice and warm today and it’s not a thing of waterproof to what are we talking before it’s just 100% waterproof like fully sealed fully sealed stick it into the into a swimming pool and take it out your hands are still dry

Obviously if you’re sticking to D it’ll come on the other side but it’s 13 on Amazon you showed me them earlier and I’m almost certainly going to get some and they’re Mega cppy as well you’ll never slide off you don’t even need handlebar tape or them um yeah so I’ve

Spent so much money on gloves over the years and I’ve got rubbish circulation my my hands always end up cold I never found a solution that works me apart from heated little handy things which are rubbish for the environment and I hate using them so I just let my hands

Get cold these days but those those gloves you’ve got I’m I’m going to give it a go so the next one is actually somewhere where I would be comfortable spending more money on uh is a multi-tool for your bike and my argument for this is I would I would ra well I’m

Comfortable spending you know like 30 40 30 40 quid on a multitool rather than than like five or six quid and the main reason for that is it sits in a bag most of the time I want it to be of uh stainless steel or coated in a way that

It’s not just going to rust up because inevitably it’s going to be sitting in a damp dingy bag for most of the time and when I need it out on a ride somewhere I want to pull it out and it actually works rather than being all rusty 100% buy good quality for that

Example uh topique top peque whatever Nick sold me last time top peque tb18 cuz it’s got that’s if You’ got tubless type once again with this you have to look at what your bike needs don’t just buy cuz something like a company like top peque will do loads of different

Multi-tools and not all of them going to work for everybody the one we use the tub8 is really good if you’re running tubeless cuz it’s got a plug tool um it’s got a little knife to cut off the extra bit um it’s got t25s obviously I

Can go in and in but first look at what you need in your bike speak to speak to your local bike shop ask them what last one in the section of tools is Tire levers pedos so I think uh you don’t need really really expensive ones because

Then you probably end up buying metal ones which I would definitely never ever ever use you don’t want to go so cheap that they just snap there’s kind of like you but you can get really good chai levers for like a couple of quid there’s a Pedro’s started doing this TI lever

It’s a slightly fatter TI lever that’s very popular and then I think a lot of companies have copied them now but if you look at Pedro as TI lever that’s the gold standard I would say um next we’re going to look at some accessories and we’re going to Rattle through them

Because we’ve been really dwelling on this one can I do the first one bike lights buy good bike lights invest invest 100% invest uh just because as batteries things are going to landfill if you just waste you can buy a cheap light at last a year then the battery

Doesn’t work well anymore and it’s just not worth it so you want to see where you want to go well EXA yeah exactly it needs to be good enough quality that it actually works well I’m going to plug them yeah but my exposure Lights I’ve

Got gr the r from these had the same lights for 11 years now they still work and at some point the battery is going to not work that well you can send it back to them and they’ll recondition it for you um it cost pennies they are

Expensive but they’re good AR but they recondition if you take over how long it lasts it’s it’s unreal I was talking to Chris Hall about exposure lights literally a few days ago so we met the guys that uh are exposure there only they’re like super small business um at

Core bike show and we tried to work it out it was probably 2015 and at that time me and Chris both bought exposure lights I think we actually had the same ones the Diablo front one and then whatever the the little red rear one is and both of us still have those lights

And are using those lights to this day he has sent his front light back once where they did a battery did they replace it or recondition it oh they recondition so what whatever they do do to it they fixed his I could probably do with getting mine front light done but

They all still work the only issue is I keep losing my charger or misplacing my charger it’s definitely somewhere in the house um helmets no um no what what does that mean helmets is a difficult one um cheap or invest cheap helmets pass the same safety standards so it’s going to be

Okay if you are fashion conscious and you’re not going to wear the helmet cuz it’s the cheap one then obviously as long as you’re wearing the helmet that’s not what we’re considering here well no it is because there’s a big study about some people like more if you buying your

Kid or somebody else a helmet in your family and they don’t like the helmet they’re less likely to wear it so essentially as long as you’re happy to wear the helmet um they all pass and it’s not been damaged they pass safety standards so they are still safe um I

Like nice helmet so I spend on nice helmets but you don’t I think the only I yeah I agree in that because of minimum safety standards uh which are pretty high yeah um or they definitely are in this country uh you don’t need to spend loads of

Money on a helmet for it to be safer uh the only space where you would potentially look at investing in a a more expensive Helmet or potentially a very expensive helmet is if performance SL time traling is your thing they’re going to cost a lot M there’s another

One though back home in South Africa in summer gets warm you I mean over 30° and we I used to always back then pick mamas based on how ventilated they were so essentially you’d have to spend more cuz there’s less material but you need something that can still keep your head

Cold so you’re not cooking inside the helmet while riding so I think that’s the only where I would take into consideration as well well cheap helmets have loads of ventilations yeah but some of them just not as well ventilates others I saying you have to buy expensive but consider that when buying

The helmet don’t just buy the first one you see Saddles and shoes uh that’s I I don’t feel like we can answer that you definitely don’t need to spend the most expensive amount of money money but ultimately Saddles and shoes are such a personal thing that you should be buying

The one that is appropriate for you uh which is a really hard thing to say because if you’re anything like me and Emily and probably everyone else I know you’ve had to have tried a bazillion pairs of shoes and a bazillion Saddles to actually work out which ones are

Right for you it’s the same thing with the PPP shorts isn’t it it’s just very personal buy the right saddle for you but at the same time the major company cesarco Calia physique and all of them will do different levels of the same shaped saddle yeah so just because if if

The set saddle works for you doesn’t mean you have to buy the 3D printed carbon rail version you can just buy the cheaper railed normal one and it’s it’s going to work you don’t have to buy if you you’ve got the money and you want to

Do it by all means but I think the main thing is I feel like we’ve talked about this before as well try as many different ones as you can if you’ve got mate try and swap them or use something even if it’s an old version or whatever

So you can decide what profile works for you whether you like a cutout Etc or go to your bike shop yeah you tried one I did yeah you let me try one and you got a sale out of it didn’t you no you did he you didn’t like the first one didn’t

Like the first one did I I like the second one yeah with and the second one was a version of the one you already knew you liked but it’s good but then you know but but it’s good to know because I mean I rode the same shaped

Saddle for years and years and I thought I was always fine and then I only swapped when I test Rod a different bike with the sdle on that is exactly what happened to me on numerous occasions is I was like oh my saddle’s fine I don’t

Need to do anything else and then for whatever reason you end up trying another one you’re like oh actually that’s better than what I thought i’ I’ve now got a new standard of what’s nice TW 20 years of riding the same Saddles thinking they’re perfect I’ve

Never had any issues and Nows I could never go back to them um bar tape uh cor tape cork tape is the best tape doesn’t last as long but you don’t need to spend loads of money I hate cork tve yeah but it’s it’s just the point is you don’t

Spend the money you don’t need to buy expensive tape tape is just tape um inner tubes I’m kind of the same thing you definitely don’t need super expensive Tu don’t buy too cheap uh we had an issue with the shop where when I first opened there was inner tubes that

Cost 99 P an inner tube yeah um and out of the 500 we ordered about 200 split within the first month that was a massive issue Quest just so thin they just yeah they just not very well made um and then it’s got to do with the beal

Content in the in so I’m not saying buy expensive 30 quid silly tubes but just don’t buy the cheapest it’s like four five quid Mark isn’t it like if they’ got a cheap one just buy one up um because you don’t want that inner tube that’s in your in your subtle bag when

You need it to fail straight away CU yeah Point sealant uh all sealant is not all made equally no good sealant uh you need to buy good sealant invest because of it’s yeah um and don’t fall for the marketing because some really expensive sealant or really well marketed Sealand

Isn’t any good um we’ve been testing loads of different on couple of examples of good sealant Silka makes the best Sealand it’s not the cheapest expense but it’s leaps and bonds the the carbon one yeah leaps and bonds ahead of anybody else I’ve never uh ritten

Anything better than that if you want to save money that worked well for us um sealed quite well not as good as a Silka but still worked better than most others is a feta maraposa STS has always made a good sealant uh I guess STS have been in

The game a long time haven’t they they’re old school mountain bike tub I believe yeah but uh just remember as well that mountain bike sealant and road is a different game because of different tire pressures Right Tires themselves invest but do you need to not not silly

Money but uh don’t don’t be buying the cheapest worst made Tire because if you buy how you you a lot a lot of this section is the same sort of thing it’s actually the M the mid space is actually really good but at the same time your

Tire is going to affect how your bike rides more than the actual frame Choice meaning don’t be buying a stupidly expensive bike and then cheap tires on it because it’s just pointless you might as well just have bought the cheapest bike imagine when when you’re saying

Cheap I’m assuming you can get tires for like 5 10 quid a tire which is just going to be yeah I wouldn’t do that sketch Fest whereas a typical tire these days is like 50 60 70 quid a tire I remember we talked about it last

Week the ones that you say that are no longer around they’re about 30 quid a tire and they are absolutely outstanding tires so it’s kind of that ultimately for about 30 quid a tire you can get a tire which is just perfect but I don’t want to put a

Price on because it’s that tire then I’ve seen other tires that cost 100 quid that are terrible and I’ve seen tires that cost 15 quid that are good as well so it’s a bit of look into it don’t just yeah uh but don’t just be buying the che

Cheapest tires because you might regret it but also don’t just buy the most expensive tires cuz you’ll also regret it so yeah it’s there’s no real good answer for this one time for another round of overrated or underrated I kind of feel like we’ve just done a round of overrated or

Underrated so we’re going to do some more I’m going to read out a list of things and you’re going to tell me if you think they’re overrated or underrated so the first is suggested by Jared doing your own bike maintenance underrated under yes right I think you

Should you should know more about your bike because the more of Maintenance you do on it the more you’re going to know if something’s wrong or if something’s not wrong but also you’ll enjoy your bike more because if something small is wrong like your headset’s loose you

Don’t be riding with a loose for two or three weeks until you get into a bike shop you just want to be able to fix it on the spot get away with it it’s kind of if it it will allow you to enjoy the bike more learn a bit more about the

Bike even if you if you never want to do your own maintenance and you’re going to always take it to someone else to do it at least learn about about what it is just so that if you if you go to a shop or somewhere they’re not taking your

Eyeballs out even from a safety aspect yeah yeah just so you know that there’s something wrong with it yeah oh yeah I think it is underrated I don’t think that that means that everyone like you don’t have to do your own bike mechanics but like you said knowledge is

Definitely something like a a good useful thing like like I guess the same thing applies to like cars you know you need to know if your car is there something wrong with your car to be able to go and get it fix so that it’s safe same applies to the bikes exactly like

You said I think that’s a good point um next is cycling press reviews most overrated thing in cycling show me one where they give them a bad like yeah it’s just you read them and they say this is bad this is bad this is bad and this still gets four to

Five or can seven right so I’ve got a review in front of me um on road CC um I’m not I’m I’m going to give you the so it’s for a long sleeve jersey that costs £190 I’m going to read through their pros and cons and you’re going to give

Me what rating you would give that out of 10 just based on their summary of the pros and cons um so the pros are luxurious stretchy material soft cuffs and thick flee collar zipper wind barrier reasonably relaxed cut zipper valuables pocket and then the negatives are short front price average insulation

And windproofing muted colors for 19 190 long sleeve jersey a long sleeve jersey that isn’t very good thermally the pros the pros are all just standard things F line doesn’t mean mean you can get a tank where Jersey that does that zipper is windproof but then the Jersey

Is windproof 190 quid I’d give it four to 10 actually no sorry sorry 190 quid I forgot that two out of 10 do you want to waigh in yeah I think you can get rid a lot of the gof there and the main things that stand out are price and the fact

What was the thing not very thermal or something like that average insulation and windproofing average with a premium price tag equals premium not premium super premium that’s jacket money not Jersey money the the main the main functional part of a long sleeve thermal Jersey and it has average I would say

What’s an average five out of 10 and then you add a price four out of 10 four out of 10 no two for me seven out of 10 cuz it’s not an average price Jersey so it can’t even fall the average category yeah CU that’s that’s exuberant more

Expensive Jersey than yeah if you were getting average performance for average price average average then five yeah but that’s thing but then show me a single review where it’s five out of 10 what was the Jersey I’m getting really worked up about this into that in a minute so I

Think I personally think the main issue that that cycling press reviews have is they almost discount the price although in every single review would say it’s too expensive but then they don’t factor that into the actual star rating and I I hope it isn’t because they’re thinking about keeping brands on side because

They need to advertise them it’s just the whole the whole structure is just absolutely rubbish they then have a blur about how we how they test products which is just kind of like in general it basically says they’ll just test it as long as they need to to gather insights

And they do their best to reflect to have a score that reflects function value there is not a single chance that this review reflects that product but when you when you consider that they are factoring in value I think I might be wrong in this I should have probably

Studied this before but tour magazine it’s a German cycling magazine and they they do like best bike uh in the world world every year and things like that but they they actually penalize Brands if your brand says a medium Fram set weighs 987 grams if that thing weighs

960 gr or n 1,000 gram they penalize him because you’ve given the wrong information to the so they actually cut the frames up and they get into depth about everything about it and then essentially it’s a rating system and at the end that’s a score it’s not a thing

Of yeah it’s far too generic isn’t it it’s like they’re forgetting who their consumer is having worked in traditional press not cycling but traditional press there is a massive issue with consumer journalism and that is that there is such a close relationship between the journalists and the brands whether

That’s the brand specifically or via PR agencies because ultimately places like rad CC it’s not just them but places like Rod CC rely on click throughs to sell ad adverts so therefore they need eyes on stuff so the more reviews they can build up like like this the more eyes they’re getting on

Stuff so therefore they need products to review therefore they need to keep a good relationship with Brands and with PR agencies and I think unfortunately whether you realize it or not that can um skew what you’re saying you know if they give a four out of 10 are whoever

This brand is are they going to give them stuff to review next time you know whereas you can give a seven out of 10 which seems fine if they just look at it on the surface they’ve they’ve given some negatives but it almost seems like it’s a consumer you have to read between

The lines of what that review is actually saying doesn’t it yeah so should we move on to the next one yeah go on um leading on from our previous one paranormal Studio cycling kit overrated is that what the Jersey was it was yeah oh well then it’s overrated um

Once again you guys will be able to say more about this but yeah it’s just it’s so expensive you you you are what I can tell you is you are paying for the marketing and not prod it’s not make the kit is that it’s MOA or somebody would be making they

Have probably have several factories but it’s and those factories would make kit for other brands as well which is fine but it’s just to be that it’s not well it’s it’s not even that that the issue the the thing that we have always found really frustrating about the apparel

Space well not frustrating because it allowed us to create a business that had a niche within it which was the Fabrics that we had access to and we’re using excluding rain jackets we’re not going to even Venture into that space because that’s a beast the Fabrics of our jerseys and shorts

Are the exact same Fabrics at the same standard at the same level from the same manufacturers as all of the other man the people that are using so the Fabrics that panl are using in their products are going to be exactly the same as the atus products at least when we were in

Control of it um I don’t know what it is going forward and and like the they the same Fabrics they’re constructed in very similar ways using the same or similar machines in different factories but with the same level of skill you’re you’re paying £190 pounds because you want to

Have something which says panal on it there’s there’s nothing wrong with that if that’s what you like then by all means go for it I just don’t um my business partner Rob keeps buying the kit um he buys a lot he sends a lot back because of different sizes things and

The things because there’s not yeah um they’re not always the same size and things that he but he likes it he likes spending the money on it and that’s fine if you you like wearing it by all means I think the most interesting thing is they have claimed the space that Rafa

Used to hold Rafa used to it didn’t have their core range they were very very premium at a time when no one else was and they got a reputation which I think they’ve tried very hard to get out of as being this like elitist thing you know

The RCT club and all of that it was it was elitest and they’ve tried really hard to get away from that and it’s like pan and Mal have gone okay well will be that space as well but it’s like it’s Gucci isn’t it it’s any sort of designer it’s

Just I I watched a really interesting YouTube video the other day that was talking about why designer stuff is no longer for the Mega it’s ultimately it’s for the middle classes and it’s about a display of wealth and that is ultimately what it was and there will always be

People who want to have that display of wealth if you have more money you want to spend more money typically or you will just spend more money and I guess there’s nothing wrong with that but I guess the problem is when it filters down as being better that’s when the

Problem cuz it’s not better you reach a ceiling with any products you reach a ceiling but the problem is with tearing systems sometimes the top stuff makes the middle stuff look better value when it’s still not great value but I guess we are ultimately in a performance space

So there’s the illusion of higher value means better performance which is not the case in this example but I like I said I still completely get it uh I’ll use Pock as an example um they do kind of technical shirts for Ms by stuff I like wearing them but I like the ones

With the Bold white Pock written on cuz I like the look of it so I wouldn’t buy the ones without the the the Bold white print and that’s purely it’s not a thing of technically bet or anything like that it’s you also don’t buy them I buy some

Of it and he does help me out from time to time but yeah uh next we have cameras on bikes uh underrated massively massively underrated so this is this is one of your so do you mean like a GoPro on the front of your hand bars well yes or

Something like the Garmin varer on the back or the cyclic computers on the back and on the front uh it just for in terms of fil many people close passing I don’t know what it’s like in other countries but in this country if a car passes you within 1.5

M uh they’re breaking the law so what so actually when you’re talking about cameras and bikes you’re specifically mean safety it’s a safe not not like to make a vlog about oh no no something it’s all about a safety tool to be able to record other users so that you can

Report them if needs to be yeah I mean obviously that sounds terrible the way you’re saying it but at the same time I think the only way it’s it doesn’t sound terrible at all if someone’s breaking the law then you have the right to it’s

More of a safety thing is I think if if you were to ride in a city a busy City and you’ve got let’s say Newcastle is not a big city but if we had a 100 people over here with the cameras and they regularly reported drivers that are close passing or driving dangerously

Past them um at some point nobody’s going to know which bikes have got them on and which don’t and I think it just be a safer place cuz it’s the same thing of way if you know there’s a speed camera people always slow down for it m

Um but in this scenario you would know where these cameras are yeah I’m I’m you a cyclist and you just people will be a bit more considerate because they’ll realize you’re close P them it’s going to hurt because you’re going to have to pay a fine I’m I’m with you definitely

Underrated keep sending your suggestions to Wild Ones podcast at Cad media. and we might read yours out on the next show so next we have fluff up of the week the it’s yours is it mine yeah well we do a Sunday ride and I told everybody

I’m really excited I had a rout planned everything for the Sunday no bad trips backyard gravel ride completely forgot that I was supposed to pick up my wife and mother-in-law and daughter from the airport on the trip that I missed because my passport wasn’t renewed in

Time this is terrible yeah um and was only the night before that I I realized that I’m not going to be able to make the ride oh so you didn’t you didn’t actually just leave them stranded at the end oh no I fetched them but then yeah

It was it was a close one if somebody didn’t if my father-in-law didn’t remind me I would have forgotten them at the airport well that’s terrible I hope that you have made it up to your wife and child well no he picked them up do make do know you should learn to prioritize

Them better now more listeners take over first up a message from Yuan who says following section on winter bikes in the last episode I have a maintenance suggestion you might not have come across I got a plumber to install a hot water tap on the outside of my house as

Well as stopping your hands freezing at the end of the ride when you’re washing your bike the hot water makes the mud salt and grime come off much more easily I then dry the bike using a commercial battery powered leaf blower with a special narrow nozzle that lets me

Direct the air in amongst the cassette and chain seems like a good idea hot wash and blow dry and oil a chain is now more pleasant at the end of a winter ride that does sound like a a joy for the bike I’ve just had a hot water tab

Fitted in the bike shop for washing bikes and it’s unreal it work I mean yes it’s nice and warm but it’s not even that it just the bike’s so much easier to wash blow dryer obviously that’s that’s genius would it actually I guess it I

Guess it displaces the water I I I like it I like it I like it I definitely like it I’m yeah 100% thumbs up from me I I would like a hot water an outside hot water to I think that’s that is a definite good idea keep sending us your stories

Questions and fun stuff to wildes podcast CAD media. co.uk if you like this episode please take a moment to leave us a five-star review or leave a like and comment if you’re watching on YouTube it doesn’t take long it helps us to boost the profile of this podcast and to continue

To put it out for free catch you in the next time goodbye