“How did our sons become killers” – Murder Documentary UK

Two boys with their lives ahead of them, but who grew up to become killers. A mother describes the moment she realised her son had attacked a stranger. Another says she’s now forgiven her mentally ill son for stabbing her and killing his dad in an attack. If lessons identified had been shared, could another death have been prevented? 

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[Applause] youing Coming a picture of me this is my seat your seat two boys with their lives ahead of Them but both would grow up to become Killers as a parent sometimes WS are like is it my fault we just there one minute as a normal family and the next minute everything change Forever I’m going to see my son David in the medium secure Hospital due to an incident that happened a few years ago David Fleet stabbed and killed a stranger on a foot path near his home it’s not the future that you dream of for your Child hello it’s your son Garvey please s my love to the whole family love you m Amanda’s son Garvey Gail is also a convicted killer being held in the same secure unit as David Fleet in South Wales I love you all world ma’am I want you to have faith in me and

Believe in me if you think oh it’s hard to believe you son you done something so horrific yeah he’s so lovely two mothers left questioning what went so wrong a murder investigation is underway in ciff after the death of a 54-year-old man Emergency Services were called to

The St melon area good evening a police investigation is underway after a man in his 70s was stabbed while out walking his dog in the village of bour in ceredigion this morning a 21-year-old man has been Arrested two killings 18 months apart both carried out by mentally ill patients were their crimes inevitable or were these these tragic cases of wrong place wrong time for the victims and the real question why did any of it have to happen David loved being on the

Beach growing up in both was for him really really good he was very quiet would easily get lost in the crowd I had an underlying feeling that he was autistic all the time that he was growing Up the tiny little obsessions made me feel there’s something not quite right by the age of 15 he had been diagnosed but by 17 other things began to worry Sharon some of David things yeah yeah these are some of his artwork that he did when you look at these you you get

An Insight I think into what was going on in his mind he seemed to think that weeds at some point put something on his head to erase his memory it was like he was seeing things that weren’t there David would had actually started smoking cannabis at that time time to

Sort of manage those symptoms he wasn’t sleeping Either I went into his bedroom one day and there was quite a lot of blood everywhere and he severely self hared himself so I took him straight to A&E at that point he was treated with antiy otic medication but later Relapsed he started asking bizarre questions about you know some someone’s watching us it was clear that he was in Psychosis these are just some of the photos from Garvey ww around the same time in Cardiff 18-year-old Garvey Gail’s Behavior was becoming erratic too he sat there and he cut himself out of every family photo precisely he said that we we wen’t his family anymore and he was going to

Disappear which didn’t make sense at the time was crazy crazy Garvey had been showing signs of psychosis for more than 2 years Amanda and his dad Michael tried to get him the help he needed he’s a good dad a loving dad caring dad his family was his achievements in life Can’t do hello my name is I’m 8 years old I’m the youngest sibling but there’s only 16 months between me and Garvey we are so close Inseparable he’s always looking out for me when he went to college maybe just after college things started to change we wasn’t as close he shut

Himself off more things he was saying just didn’t really add it wasn’t making sense yeah it was just a drastic change in his behavior I come on one day and he sliced the sofa and he done the same to my bed he’d be chanting or reading the Bible or

He’d be up all hours in the bedroom making all noises he’d be coming down the stairs 3:00 in the morning with a skateboard he’d be putting lit cigarettes in his pockets and I’d have to say like your clothes are on fire Literally Amanda says she repeatedly asked doctors and the police for help in dealing with her son who was at times unmanageable he’s call himself Jesus Christ I just kept saying please get him the metal help help that he needs I was told the yeah yeah yeah it was just an ongoing cycle basically

So last tragic night when our lives were changed Forever M rang me I hung up because I was taking pictures of my friends and I think her friend rang me and she said you need to listen now your dad’s Dead Garvey Gil had attacked his parents with a kitchen knife so leaned and must seing the knives on the fridge and he just it just all happened quick blink of an eye he stabbed his dad Michael 17 times he died at the scene had punctured lung injuries to my intestines my

Liver my arms my chest how can something so tragic H happen like that by our own son Michael’s a living father Sometimes I’ll sit here and I call Michael I call him out loud I go Mike the silence is like death ining I don’t think I’ll ever get over that my dad’s not here and Garvey did that even though you could say it wasn’t him at the Time I became increasingly aware of David taking knives to bed with him and sleeping with it underneath his pillow 18 months before the killing in Cardiff there had been disturbing signs that David fleet’s mental health was deteriorating he said to me that he thought he might have to kill someone

Because people are watching us he was saying that his brain was being corrupted someone was trying to make him into a psychopath we had to prize the knife off him to get him into the car and get him into hospital he was sectioned under the mental health

Act but Sharon warned staff that when he was allowed home from hospital for visits he was still buying cannabis and looking for knives we just hid all of the knives upstairs in the Loft he asked where they’d gone and I said we’ve got rid of them after 4 months as an inpatient

Staff decided he should be treated at home in Bor I just cried because I I just thought I don’t know how I’m going to cope I don’t know what I’m going to do he’s over six foot I can’t stop him from going out early one morning 10 days after being

Sent home from hospital David Fleet left the house a knife had gone missing and David’s nowhere to be seen so I’m trying to phone him oh my God where’s he gone I looked out the back window and I could see the air ambulance and I just remembered having this really sinking

Feeling like I knew a 71-year-old man has been airlifted to hospital after being stabbed while he was walking his dogs in B this morning a man has been arrested police have described the victim’s injuries as serious the victim leis Stone from Staffordshire owned a holiday home

Nearby where he and his wife plan to retire you’re willing him to to pull through please God let him be okay as a parent there’s always that thought in the back of your mind is it my fault leis Stone’s family say he would have been defenseless that day that he was an old-fashioned

Gentleman adored by his wife children and grandchildren in May 2019 3 months after the attack he died in June J of the same year Garvey Gail was becoming more aggressive towards his mother the first time he was violent we were working home from tesos and then he just turned around

Just started punching me in the head and I was like that g what you doing what are you doing and he just run off I was in total shock I couldn’t believe what had just happened he was arrested and given a conditional discharge but a few months later he assaulted Amanda

Again we were just on the front door talk in and he just punched me just the once and run off Again that time he was jailed for 10 weeks I was hoping he was going to get help for his mental health he was just released came back home to me broke police bail cuz he wants for us to come to me police officers in Authority when they were coming I was

Explaining he’s it’s not a criminal matter he’s generally he’s mentally Unwell eventually he became so unwell that he had to be sectioned and spent 6 months in psychiatric units when he was discharged he wasn’t allowed to live at home because he’d previously been assessed as posing a high risk to his parents so he was placed in a homeless hostel in Cardiff he can look after himself he still was really really poorly and unwell I’d have to like FaceTime him and get him to take his meds and ask him if he took his meds he’d go yeah yeah yeah yeah look I just have to accept that he

Was he was known as Jesus Christ I would go to visit my son and they’ go oh Jesus I go and get Jesus now for you he’s upstairs I say his name’s not Jesus his name’s Garvey three months before Garvey Gil killed his dad South Wales police probation and mental health staff were

Meant to discuss the risk hosed at a special meeting but failed to do so it was like they wasn’t joining up the dots lack of communication lack of whatever but there was something something wasn’t working properly obviously that Gabby didn’t get the help that he needed there was clear signs that he

Wasn’t well and he shouldn’t be home it was a risk to all of us it was a risk that’s why I wasn’t going there my sister wasn’t going there much but M dad had to be there cuz that’s their son Essence says that two days before Garvey killed their father she’d warned

Michael to be careful I text him saying why is Garvey back up Mom’s something will happen his response was what am I meant to do I can’t just leave Mom something bad was coming I I knew it after stabbing his mother and killing his father Garvey admitted manslaughter due to diminished Responsibility Amanda says he wasn’t diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia until after the attack if Garvey had got this intense help back then Michael would still be here and Garvey would have been getting help he needed but we had to lose Michael forari to get the help he needed it’s backwards Backwards we’ve discovered that a month before the killing in Cardiff a review into David fleet’s case had been completed by his health board howah but the findings were not publicly shared including with his victim’s family We’ve seen a copy of the review into David fleet’s care it reveals that 3 weeks before the stabbing a doctor had warned that he wasn’t ready to leave hospital because of his worsening mental state and the risks he posed with knives but just days later he was sent home

Anyway without anyone updating his risk assessment the day before the attack staff were meant to contact him but didn’t they were making appointments with David and he didn’t even know what day of the week it was he’d been due another dose of his antis psychotic medication but didn’t

Receive it I was supposed to be his carer at that point but was never Informed the Health Board told us it had shared its review with some of its own staff and with Welsh government but it couldn’t be published because it contained confidential medical information but that’s raised questions why lessons from this case weren’t shared more widely to help prevent further

Killings it’s not enough to say that just because we have confidential data we can’t share it as a peer and former MP Lord Alex carile chaired committees on Mental Health legislation and as a barrister he’s worked on scores of homicide cases in the real world if

There has been a homicide and there is relevant information in the hands of a Health Board which might protect somebody else from being killed who’s going to prosecute or sue them for sharing that information in the public interest the failure to share information is absolutely Dreadful um it is essential that in

Cases where there is a major safeguarding issue um information should be shared uh by all the relevant public and private sector organizations it’s resulted in two families being devastated ultimately this could should have been prevented there was enough warnings there David Fleet admitted manslaughter due to diminished responsibility diagnosed with paranoid

Schizophrenia he was detained indefinitely at a secure psychiatric unit the feelings of guilt and remorse that David is feeling are incomprehensible because now that he’s receiving care he’s back to himself but his victim’s family told us there can be no excuse or forgiveness for what he did do you understand the

Victim’s family here when they describe David is a monster as a killer I can and and I I totally get I totally understand what what they’re saying but they haven’t got all of the facts they don’t know the backstory and what should have taken place and what didn’t take

Place the Health Board said it couldn’t discuss the case with us but in a private letter it told Sharon it had made changes to its services following the killing but for her and her son that’s not enough it’s really important for just not only us but for the stone family to

Have a public apology can you see this perhaps From perspective of this the victim’s family who might justifiably ask why should David get an apology as well because of his illness and the lack of care that he received it only feels Justified that he also receives an apology because the

Health Board failed him which then in turn failed his victim’s family the stone family told us that nothing could be said or done to help them understand or move on from what happened that life without Lewis is Agony and they want David Fleet to remain locked up

Since Garvey Gail was sent to the same secure unit Amanda has only felt able to speak to him once by phone he told me how much he loved me told him how much I loved him I told him I forgiven him CU I have I have forgiven

Him and I’m sure his dad’s forgiven him as well I know he have I don’t think I’ll ever fully be able to forgive him for everything we speak now twice a week maybe some days he’s sounds like old gavy again he’s asking me questions about what have I

Been up to and another days he don’t sound well again so it’s still a work in progress their health board has been reviewing the care it provided but Amanda doesn’t yet have the findings I just want some answers of how maybe this could have been prevented if we had more

Help there’s a lot of unanswered questions at the moment we’re still waiting on to answer just those kind of questions the well government has the power to commission independent mental health homicide reviews and to share sh the lessons identified as widely as possible but we’ve discovered that since

2016 it’s stopped asking for them despite other killings involving mental health patients as well as the two cases in this program we’ve identified three others in that time where review findings haven’t been shared directly with other health boards if they had been could it have made a difference

We learn from previous disasters how to avoid future disasters why don’t they want to do these reviews I don’t understand it unless it’s on the basis that they can be costly well that’s not a proper basis for not carrying out reviews not commissioning reviews I mean it’s a sevene

Scandal we’ve repeatedly asked if we could interview a minister about our findings but we’re told no the wel government did say it was satisfied that no independent reviews had been necessary for the past 7 years because individual health boards had thoroughly investigated their own cases but what

Does that mean for any lessons from David fleet’s case I’m calling again because it’s failed to provide any clear evidence that those lessons were shared with health boards it’s we Davis here from BBC Wales investigates why why can’t the minister talk to us about this but won’t he tell us if You’ shared

The findings from the cases in Boss okay thanks bye-bye bye-bye so it’s another no to an interview and they say they won’t comment any further on what they did in relation to David fleet’s case it did admit the review system needs to change so it’s creating a new one to make it easier for all agencies

To access lessons and to Learn last October Amanda and her family marked the second anniversary of Michael’s Death just having a reflection and a quiet moment in memory of Mel garvey’s case will be among the first to be examined under the new review system for that reason South Wales police and his Health Board told us they couldn’t comment though Cardiff and Vil said their thoughts remain with the

Family they may not get the review findings until after the thir third anniversary I’m appalled really at the time is taken I don’t think it’s fair on the family at all I don’t understand why these things are taken so Long the reviewers told us they’re sorry for the delay and any learning will be shared as it emerges Sharon and her son are still waiting to hear if their health board will make a public apology over his care if other health boards across the

Whole of the UK were made to be aware of the failings in this case then it would have an impact on perhaps the care of people in other health boards and it would prevent tragic cases like this from ever happening again it’s not yet clear when David Fleet or Garvey Gail will be

Released I pray that lessons are learned and something good comes out of this horrific thing that have happened to our family I hope my son gets well and he don’t spend the rest of his life in hospital I was praying before this happened and I’m still praying