Why There May be No Hope for Classic Motorcycles, and Your Rides

The Janus caught my attentio recently and i am Fascinated by its 1920's design especially that fuel tank and handle bar, hope RE can make a similar model

Freddie. Here’s a thought about carbs and EFuels that you might like to share.

Today while riding my Aprilia Pegaso Cube ( 650 single twin carbs) to keep the E10 fuel from sitting too long, I had an epiphany. If you have any carb bikes with manual petcock with a reserve position, listen carefully. One of the problems with Ethanol-degraded (can’t call it enhanced) fuel is that over time, the alcohol settles out of the fuel and collects at the bottom of the container it is in, because it’s more dense than petrol. Carbs have float bowls which are a sort of container, but there is a dip tube that goes right to the bottom of the bowl so any alcohol that gathers there will be sucked up and eliminated, if the engine is run periodically. But the fuel tank is different (but not really, read on), if used as per the owner’s manual and common practice. I.e. turn the petcock to the “on” position for normal fuel levels then switch the petcock to the reserve position in any or all of the following situations occur: engine stumbles and refuses to run, fuel gauge read low, fuel warning light comes on. All that depends on your bike and how it is equipped. This means that, except for when a rider draws the tank down to almost empty, every bike with a reserve-enabled petcock, is riding around with an ever growing puddle of alcohol or water (explained later) or water-infused alcohol, at the bottom of their tanks. Because they rarely switch to reserve for more than is necessary to get to the next petrol station. The only time the fuel/alcohol/water at the bottom is drawn down is when the petcock is switched to reserve AND the bike is run like that until empty or almost empty. But who wants to risk running out? So here’s my solution: run in the reserve position, ALL THE TIME. It’s important to know when you’re going to run out, and that depends on the bike. My Pegaso has a low fuel warning light so when that comes on I know I still have at least 5L because that’s the reserve and the light comes on several miles before the engine starts to splutter. This way you are ALWAYS drawing down the fuel at the bottom of the tank. This means that no liquids that are lighter than petrol can gather there for any longer than the time the bike sits between rides. Even if one runs expensive E5 fuel ( some have no alcohol) or alcohol free petrol, water can still gather at the bottom of the tank. How? Condensation. When the moisture in the air in your tank above the fuel, cools down ( think, during a cold night) it condenses on the insides of the tank. Once that condensation is thick enough it coalesces into droplets that run down the tank and into the petrol. Once there, it sinks to the bottom. Repeat this cycle many times and a considerable amount of water can collect. And filling the tank regularly isn’t the solution either because any moisture on the tank walls before filling, will simply be washed into the fresh petrol and gather at the bottom. Operators of light aircraft are very familiar with this concept. The rule is fill your tanks after every flight (to eliminate air/moisture from above the fuel. And draw of enough fuel from the bottom of EVERY tank before each flight, until you can see the water/fuel separation line in the special, clear beaker that every light aircraft carries. The tanks are specially equipped with draw off point for this purpose. Once you are sure all the alcohol is in the beaker and not the tank, you can proceed with the rest of the pre flight checks. Running one’s bike on reserve, all the time is the road going equivalent of this aviation procedure. Their procedure eliminates the water before the engine starts because the last thing a pilot needs is a stumbling engine in take off. We bikers cannot duplicate this total elimination practice without modifying our fuel systems, which isn’t easy, believe me, I’ve looked into it.

Lime green, or, as others may describe it: teal.
Enjoy your enthusiasm for everything FD.
🍻

Once again Freddie a very interesting post, I am in my 60's and the 80's Japanese bikes are my favourites, when my generation have gone so will the love of these 80's bikes. the next generation will love the 90's bikes and so on….

Dear Freddie, thanks so much for your entertaining efforts discussing motorcycles. I am 74 now, my first bike being a 49cc puch, sold by sears as the Allstate compact, I bought used in 1963 with money I earned from my paper route. It was the beginning of a lifelong relationship with motorcycles. I’ve never had a “stable” of bikes, I’ve gone years at times without one, but I’m still enjoying riding. I’ve had several Hondas over the years, a Yamaha xs1100 that required a firm grip on the bars, as it was quicker than anything I had ridden before! After I sold the Goldwing for $2000 more than I paid for it, I bought my first BMW, a K1200LT. What a surprise, a huge heavy tourer, loaded with tech, and rode like a sport bike..loved it, but alas my wife quit riding with me, and the bike ended up sitting in the garage longer than it should, so I sold it, thinking that my riding days were over..I retired at 73, and immediately boredom set in. While perusing marketplace, I came across a ‘79 Honda XL250s, for $125..the accompanying photos showed the bike still had all its bits, and a title, and it was close by…boredom solved! I sent many glorious hours in the garage cleaning and fixing it up, and when finished, I had a total of about $500 in it…sold it for $1500 right away. I then spotted a 2003 BMW F650cs running, not wrecked just listed on marketplace, for $1000, I don’t think I had seen any BMW that could be ridden home for a grand! My thought was to bring it home, clean it up, and make a tidy profit…my problem now is that I can’t get off of it, it is an oddity for BMW, weird styling, only made for 4 years, but it has this bucket cargo space on the “tank” (fuel is actually under the seat) that is perfect for throwing groceries, a 12 pack of Corona bottles, takeout, whatever, in it, and I just love riding it, has fuel injection, ABS brakes, heated grips..I’m stuck..actually had it listed for sale, and deleted the posting..
Freddie…I don’t know what to do about this affliction!!

Young people are not buying Harleys in the US. Their future nostalgia value might not be there either.

I buy a motorcycle to have fun be it touring – track riding- adventure riding whatever I have never bought a motorcycle for resale value also Freddie what gives a motorcycle soul/character as I don’t believe a motorcycle has these things 😊

I’ve bought both my bikes with the intention of not loosing money – other than inevitable running costs.

Still saving for a Janus. Love the company and the bikes.

Aqua green surely, lime green would be rank 😅

my first bike was the Yama RD350, the "pocket rocket". next was a 900 Kawasaki, a land cruise missile. I loved and survived those bikes. I like the new KZ900, but don't crave it. down-sized bikes I can flick & lean are my taste. So many to choose from. 😊

I bought a moto guzzi new 20 years ago,its now a classic and i still ride it,sadly a few years ago all the meerschaum pipes and mine host types were bigging up classic bikes and artificially raising the prices,luckily most have now gone,to be replaced by honest working class men who service and sell classic bikes,although one shyster still trades,but everything he sellsvis advertised with glowing references,but nearly every one is a bitza or fitted with incorrect parts
Lots of classics tend to get sold either privately between enthusiasts or via auction
Sadly many of the latter are what is called museum quality,ie shiny,but when you try to actually ride them,they are awful often poor handling and mechanically unreliable, middle aged blokes in sheds and garages tinkering with bikes,who lack real skill,and never ride them
After road testing a few shiny machines for a friend,all of which were awful,we bought a nice origional unrestored machine that had been ridden and maintained

What i find weird is middle aged blokes who have collections of bikes they never ride,but always start every conversation by telling you how much they are worth ??
My local Mot station testifies to this,60 percent of machine's brought in have only a handful of miles between tests ????

Well Pete was absolutely right Nostradamus right. 25 year olds aren’t interested in motorcycles. I have 20 bikes in my they are all immediately a lot of 70s 80s a few 2000s there even a DYNA. I have 3 daughters and none of the partners have ever even asked to look at them no one is interested in classic bike apart from my generation. Because they didn’t have dirtbike take girls out on bikes so they don’t get how hard we worked and sacrificed other things to buy bikes Classic bike market is dying like there owners and the government are helping it along with bad fuel high insurance premiums and a million cameras and 20 mph hour limits and I own a GPZ and a fireblade because they are iconic to me and likeminded friends to me they are art. Not investments. I have a lot of bikes that are investments and I think it’s time they where sold now. Cheers Freddie your learning.

Hi, if you are thinking about a good all-rounder to replace the Bonnie I can recommend the Yamaha tracer 700 .
Great, do it all bike and under raited .
Low mileage 2016 – 2018 , between 5 & 6 k bargin.

Most of us classic bike riders are not in it for the money,done a few ,i'm a few grand out over the last few years,we do it for love.

All things are relative weather it’s paintings furniture, classic cars and motorcycles. It’s all the same thing some have more rarity desirability, then others therefore will become worth a lot more than others it’s as simple as that
Example ive owned both a KR1S and aprilia RS250 both of which are worth a fortune now and that is just two I’ve owned
It’s the same with cars some are more desirable than others ford and Vauxhall are a good example ford has a much better following than Vauxhall and therefore market prices are massively different
The whole E5 E10 petrol argument killing off old cars and bikes is nonsense “I’m not saying it’s not an issue” but it’s an issue that is easily overcome
I work in classic car restoration and I see the sort of cars that are bought purely for investment and most will never see the roads again due to this investment and I’m sure the bike market will go the same way with some bikes (and already is)
Vintage cars and bikes are a little different basically because there hard to live with difficult to use in modern day traffic

So my summary
the death of classic and modern classic motorcycles is a long way from happening but if your buying something purely in the hope it will be worth more in the near future
Then your doing it wrong (you can’t predict the future)
Buy with your heart

Problem with Janus is their engines are junk Honda knock offs from China.

I buy what makes me happy and used. I have never bought a new bike. I always let someone else take the hit on depreciation. It's pretty easy to find a 2 year old bike with 2k miles on it with a good discount.

Freddie, on the subject of classic bike prices and future investment, in general the people with the most disposable income tend to be in their 40's, 50's and 60's, hence the bikes and cars which have higher prices are the ones that these people remember from their youth. Back in the 80's and 90's the value of 1930's cars rocketed, but the value of these cars has changed little in the last 15 years, and often in a downward trajectory. There will always be exceptions to this rule such as rare Ferrari's or Ducati's etc, but for a bog standard mass production car or motorcycle this trend tends to hold true. The value of early 2000's rare bikes such as Ducati 916 – 998's or Honda VTR1000 SP1 etc are increasing fast, but the price of 1930's – 1950's are not changing much at all.

Bought a 1995 Guzzi California in 2008 with under 25,000 km on the clock for £2800. Sold it in 2022 with over 75,000 km on the clock for £2700. Beautiful, great bike. Could probably have held out for more going by prices on auto trader/ eBay at the time. Definitely an all time classic. IMO.

One problem with the idea that if you buy a Goldwing it won't hold it's value but a Harley will. It's this: If you buy a Harley for 30,00 and keep it 25 years, you can probably sell it for 20,000. If you buy a Honda Gold Wing for 30,000 and keep it for 25 years you can probably sell it for 5,000. So with the Honda you lost 25,000 and with the Harley you only lost 10,000 right? Wrong. During the time you had the Honda you probably spent 3,000 on upkeep. During the time you had the Harley you probably sent 18,000 on the silly thing. Which means that you bought the Harley for 30,000, spent 18,000 to keep it up and then got 20,000 for it. So you lost 28,000. With the Gold Wing you spent 30,000, spent 3,000 on upkeep and sold it for 5,000. Which means that you lost 28,000 on it. Anyway you slice it it's all about the same. Honda Goldwings can run up to 350,000 miles with just changing tires and changing oil. With the Harley, after 80,000 miles get ready to rebuild the engine!

I wanted to ask you do you ever use passing blinker since in EU blinking far lights means you let someone pass and also I wanted to ask you does the new BMW GS being 30k makes sense, but now I just feel bad because of your Boneville disaster after seeing latest video on main channel. This sucks man, I feel you so much. It's just a piece of metal but still, for us, motorguys, it's a lot to take. And pay.

Another couple of reasons why classic motorcycles may , generally, across the board, stay low is because there may be a glut of bikes, and a dearth of customers. That could be attributed to the JabDemic. Gary from Melbourne Aus..