A much better attempt at cycling infrastructure. In this episode I also discuss the importance of not jumping lights to segregate different types of road users to keep them safe..
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37 Comments
Thanks Ashley. Interesting to see this infrastructure. Good analysis although I still found the layout confused and wouldn't be surprised if motor vehicle drivers were of similar mind. The separation was good but then it ends and end up sharing the lanes which are very tight based on size of vehicles today. What we need is consistency to ensure that people are then able to comply as well as be patient as you demonstrated with the bike traffic light.
Mr O'brien has been busy in dribs and drabs.
8:21 Watch out for the large bum on the road.😂
Have you considered seeing what cycling is like in places like Amsterdam? They seem to put so much more priority and focus on bikes and pedestrians, but don't seem to expect bikes to "ride like cars", so its seem less strict but maybe a bit more chaotic?
There needs to be a give way on the cycle paths crossing junctions. It will prevent cyclists ploughing into cars with their noses out.
Some examples of good but very limited infrastructure, it's a very slow process but it is moving in the right direction, all be it very slowly.
Great demonstration by two motorised scooter riders of what NOT to do, giving Ashley interesting instructive content for his video.
It is good to see cycling infrastructure like this and a good floating bus stop. I have seen some which have a “Zebra Crossing” but there is no warning no giveaway marking and just the stripes which gives the pedestrians the assumption of a safe crossing space and cyclists no warning. They also place this at the rear of the bus shelter which could hide the person waiting for the bus. The other frustration of the second part of the cycle lane on the pavement just disappears with no clear indication for cyclist what to do. I would love for the cycling infrastructure to be more like this and the separated cycling light seems a little excessive for cycling safety but is welcome thought that they are looking out for cyclists. The final bit you say about the bus I agree with that especially when drivers are positive with the overtake and not ridiculously close but not the 1.5m away but the distance feels much less when you are side by side travelling at the same speed and they get closer to you. You feel very vulnerable at those times.
LOL – "Rules are rules."
2 minutes later: "I'm going to ride across here illegally."
No worries, no problem, just amused 🙂
It's not terrible infrastructure, but the big thing for me is the lack of consistency. The width varies, narrowing at the bus stops. There are bulges in the kerb where the bollards are placed at the start of the cycle track. It ends abruptly, expecting you to do a 90° turn over a crossing. The surface varies, some bits are black tarmac, some bits are setts, some are flags, etc. I would particularly prefer the surface to be consistent across the bus stops, to make it clear to pedestrians that cyclists have priority there. The lane disappears across the junction without warning, as evidenced by the bus close-passing. All in all, it's a good attempt, but there's lots of room for improvement.
Having a separate set of lights for cyclists looks like it should prevent the problem of cars turning left hitting a cyclist who is going across the junction.
Your extras really earned their pay today, Ashley! 😂
Mostly nice infrastructure but some sections appear to be quite narrow yet wide enough for some to attempt a pass and cause a bit of trouble. At least the infrastructure there makes sense, quite a lot around near me feels like a tick box exercise by local councillors to appease the County Council which generates a bit more funding for more pointless projects in the future. I just wish they would install needed and appropriate infrastructure
Would you ever consider doing especially bad cycling infrastructure, like the laughable attempt on Belle Vale Road in (you guessed it!) Belle Vale? The section between the school field and the Ralla is especially bad!
I don’t like cycle lanes I prefer if they added certain road markings so if a cyclist is in that part must not overtake so if a cyclist is turning right they be road markings to inform were about in the road cyclist should be like primary position and all vehicles are forbidden to overtake , it would work for roundabouts at every exit point it splits off into two the left markings is ok to overtake but if cyclists goes towards into the second road markings no overtaking as cyclists is continuing around to the next exit
Those cycle lights look to be easily blocked from view by other vehicles, meaning you might think cyclists are jumping a red light when they're not.
Don't have those little cycle lights where I cycle. I might well have missed it. Infra looks pretty good there. I always think they need to focus on at least making the cycle paths smooth, cyclists feel bumps more and can be knocked into traffic. Bus overtake looked fine. Helps knowing they are very likely an experienced driver. I know some disagree but honestly seem to have found taxi drivers pretty good. They tend to flow past at the right speed and I don't feel in danger.
5:20 This isn’t a tiger crossing its a toucan crossing.
When you say you’ve ridden across illegally, that can only be because it’s on red? But you can walk across on red no trouble?
Interesting difference in the floating bus stops. In 6:11 the cycle path goes right round the back and has give ways and cycle markings. At 3:15 Arguably isn’t a floating bus stops at all. There is a cycle lane before it and after it. But on it the floor at the bus stop itself it changes to pavement and doesn’t have a blue shared pavement sign…
Why were you waving at the van in the opening clip?
It’s a slow and gradual improvement of infrastructure on the roads, you started to see traffic lights appear in the 50’s and 60’s with the black and white poles. To me today these signal a zebra crossing if the lights are duds.
Fast forward to 00’s and we started to see upgrades to traffic lights, road sensors and light mounted sensors being installed.
Now in 10’s and 20’s we’re seeing cycle specific traffic lights and LED lights over halogen.
Traffic lights took time to get to where they are now and cycle infrastructure will be exactly the same. But we will never have one size fits all across the country as people see things in different light.
At the cycling traffic lights, It could do with some signage. I've never seen them before, and as they are quite small, I'm guessing that I would be concentrating on the main traffic lights, and miss seeing the little cycle ones. A sign just above them saying 'Cyclist' would grab the attention. The bus passing, I don't think is a problem, as I have a mirror, so I adjust my position where possible, when I know someone is going to pass a bit too close.
I’m a rules stickler. Even if you can do it “safely” you end up reducing the safety for all. One, people will follow like sheep, what might have been safe for you might not be safe for the guy 2 back. Two, it changes expectations of other road users. People will assume all bikes are going to, for example, blow that light, so they might try to rush, or drive into the back of someone who stops.
I get annoyed here because we have 4way stops and many times I’ll stop and a bunch of bikes behind me will run it, while there are cars waiting to go. I’ve also almost been clipped while making a left hand turn (right side traffic here) and I’ve had someone go around me on the left.
We have the safety stop in Colorado. Red lights can be treated as stop signs, and stop signs as yield signs. It's wonderful, especially on neighborhood streets where there isn't much traffic; you almost never have to stop. It's great when you are the only one waiting at a stoplight and the sensor doesn't detect you.
Rules are rules at lights but not at the crossing, here rules are more guidelines?
CathAAAAAAAAAAArine Street, just to be picky.
Some of this is good, but a LOT of it is just paint, especially where protection is needed – through the junctions. They should have really done more outside the Caledonia pub where the right turn heads towards the top of the university. It's a tricky right turn and nothing has changed.
Ashley gives interesting instructive content for his video.
2:39 to 3:24 absolutely bang on. Respect the lights and signage regardless of the vehicle you’re using. Deliveroo and Just Eat take note.
Can we have a opinion please on the Mikey vs Fiat episode doing the roads, amazing how the comments see such different things on this!
Good video Ashley.
The infra looks quite good, though one can always come up with details.
One important point: the one at 3:15 is not a floating bus stop, which have an island which the mobility track goes behind, and which contains the shelter – so people can cross the mobility track one by one over time which improves flow. These are "bus stop boarders", but with a very narrow island, so the bus queue still blocks the mobility track whilst doing so – especially if a ramp is deployed.
In high traffic (pedestrian or wheelers / cyclists) bus stop boarders enforce conflict, and damage flow, and are actually currently paused by the Govt whilst they think about new guidance.
In this situation the pavement and road look wide enough to take a full floating bus stop, so it's perhaps disappointing that they skimped it.
But not to worry – LHAs take time to learn to get it right, and it took London about 3 generations of cycling superhighways to get where they are now.
I like hearing your somewhat more extended thoughts.
One thing I think will happen over time, and in each are as mobility infra develops, is that a changing road culture (all modes) will let us work with less starkly controlled environment – but that is change you might see by comparing Liverpool with Manchester, or today's Liverpool with Liverpool in 15 years' time.
My opinion is that going through a red light is wrong when driving because a car can easily hurt someone, but doing so on a bike is fine because you're vanishingly unlikely to do anyone any harm
I think the big problem with allowing cyclists to treat red lights as give way signs is the number of junctions, mostly in urban ares, where some of all of the arms of the junction aren't visible to some or all of the other arms. This is going to vary a lot across the country, but there's several of them in the Medway Towns for example. You can't check for traffic and then proceed if it's safe when it's impossible to see approaching traffic – and impossible for them to see you – until you're already in the junction and about to hit each other.
This is presumably less of an issue in places with more regular street layouts, or places with junctions designed to be safer for cyclists.
I agree to an extent rules are rules but I would personally change it so red lights are changed to be 'Give way' for people on bikes. I would also make it so that if you're cycling past a T-junction, you can just go straight on. Doesn't make sense to make people on bikes stop when traffic lights are designed for cars
Perfectly legal to ride across a toucan crossing on red as you did. It's only illegal to run actual red lights or the specific cycle lights like you saw on the first junction
What do you prefer Ashley, cycling around Liverpool or driving around Liverpool? I hate driving now because the roads are so busy. Cycling is mostly a much nicer and calmer experience.
If there's one thing drivers hate it's cyclists jumping red lights and if there's one thing drivers are completely oblivious to it's drivers jumping red lights! In Liverpool, to many drivers amber lights mean speed up and red means stop if it's been red for 5 seconds or so, if not you're good to go.