Dive into the powerful story of Tommy Kearns, a man with over 40 years of experience battling addiction and trauma. In this candid interview, Tommy shares his journey from childhood adversity and substance misuse to turning his life around and actively giving back through community work, prison outreach, and supporting mental health initiatives. Discover how he’s used his lived experience to inspire others, break stigmas, and promote recovery and hope. This heartfelt conversation emphasizes resilience, mental health awareness, and the importance of community support in overcoming life’s toughest challenges.
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Welcome back to the YouTube channel. And um today
um it’s probably I’m probably going to this person I’m going to interview today is probably going to
be the longest person that I’ve known that I will actually have on the show apart from if I have
my mom on. You know what I mean? Which I doubt that’ll happen. So I’m going to introduce you all
to um fine young gentleman now. Yeah. Um yeah. Thomas Kearns, how are you, pal? I’m good. I’m
good, K. Good. Old say young. We just um so again, we’ve spoke briefly. Yeah. Before the podcast
again, nothing to say that. And you know that I’ve got one question for you at the end. You
can ask me a question. You know that this whole setup is not about glamorizing any any past
lifestyles or anything like that. Um so I’m gonna get straight into it if I’m honest with
you. And my first my first one question that’s I ask everybody and everybody seems to find it
very difficult but um the question is who are you um so yeah that’s a good question that is it gets
everybody you’re not the first person that see and and again I don’t tell anybody what the question I
just know they’ve got I’ve seen the one with Phil oh so you’re new and like since I’ve seen the Phil
I’m Oh, sugar. Um, by the way, you can swear. You can, right? Okay. Um, so I’m um I’m a recovering
addict. Um, been addicted for 40 41 years. Um, loads of different stuff. Started sniffing glow
when I were eight um to now. So, I’m not just a recovering addict. I’m I don’t I’m not a 12step. I
don’t do the 12step meetings. They are work. They work for some people, but I’m a I like fax me.
Um I like the way the brain works. Um dopamine um oxytocin. We were talking about Gabber earlier
on. I swear God my head I got goose pimples when we were on about that because it’s because we know
each other like that. And then you’re talking my language and I’m like, “Oh, I didn’t know that you
were into this type of stuff.” But yeah, so I’m all about facts. I do a lot of um I volunteer
for Forward Leads. I’m a sustainable recovery volunteer. Okay. As much as they want me to work
for him. Um not blowing your own trumpet though. No, I don’t want to I don’t want to work for them.
Um however, I’ve said that I’ll take employment if cuz I’ve got so there’s a new medical drug
which we were talking about which which we’ll get into. We will get into that. Definitely get
into that. Yeah. Cuz m So this is where the LERO comes in. Yeah. So um so what I do is I point
and help people to rehab. So if somebody comes in and they tell me that and they believe in
God, right? 12st step. Yes. Somebody comes in, they go, “Oh yeah, no, I’m not religious.
I’m not into that.” Right. Smart recovery, therapeutic therapeutic community. Okay. So
smart stands for self-management and recovery training. So would you say in that sense
it’s more like like a coordinator role? Um, no. It’s hard to explain. Um, so when somebody
walks into Kirgate, there’s only one me this I’m repeating what other people what the staff
have said. There’s only one Tommy Kearns down and that’s 100% these I’ll say that and it’s not
even I’m not about forward leads either. Seacroft, you got Armlet and then you’ve got Town. Yeah.
And they’re like, “Nah, man. We’ve got the best. We got Tommy, man. that the other hubs that I want
to use because um when people walk in they never it’s I like to make people feel relaxed. Smile
goes a long way. You know what I mean? Do you know what else I think goes a long way as well
especially knowing you is the lived experience model that you bring. I think that’s one of the
key things that’s probably why they’re because you’ve got the the 40 years of of substance abuse
of some kind, haven’t you? So, I suppose when you’re looking into that element, you are ticking
probably majority of them boxes apart from the new craze of of whatever substances are going on. You
are ticking a lot of their boxes. However, I don’t want to take you back in time. Now, obviously,
you’re not going to remember being born. No, but I would like you to take me back to early
childhood memories and then like your within that within your family environment and then all the
way through till the end of primary school. Tell us about that area of your life that kids home.
So we I grew up Gipton. Um went to Oakwood Oak Tree Middle. Went to Oak Tree Middle. Um Oh yeah.
cuz you’re part of the old school. So you went to Old Tree Mu from 9 years old, didn’t you? Yeah.
Yeah. Well, no, from I went in Dorset Primary, then from Dorset to Oak Tree, and then got my
mom fled domestic violence. Okay. We ended up in Richmond Court, woman’s refuge. And then because
I won a little tour, I got a glue sniffing as well cuz I didn’t like what was going on at home. You
know what I mean? Um, so I ended up in Shadwell cuz they were like, “Nah, man.” So I’m guessing
mom and dad weren’t together. No man, my mom and dad haven’t been together for years. Since you can
remember. Yeah, man. So, within your family home, is it just you? Just you and your mom or is there
So, there’s me, Wayne, Richard. God bless him. Ashley, God bless him. Um Fiona and Nicola. Okay.
So, you’re quite a big family. Yeah. Brothers and sisters, should I say? Yeah. Yeah. At at that
time. At that time. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, I know I knew I know one of your brothers. Yeah. Richard
got stabbed to death in 2003. This is why um I do a lot against knife crime. And then um I do a lot
for suicide awareness, suicide prevention because my littlest brother decided um he didn’t want to
be in no more. So he committed suicide in 2021. Um hung himself around here and left be left behind
a little girl which was the start of my this relapse. But then um I don’t like to say silver
lining but if I wouldn’t be here if it weren’t. Oh well I I’ll touch on on that cuz that’s where
the realms where we go down when we when we start we start talking about pasts. So from there you’re
a little to rag your glow sniffing. Yes. And then so at what stage do you got cuz obviously Shadwell
home is no longer it’s no longer around no more. No. Um so when what age do you got Shadwell
home? Nine. All right. Okay. So, you’re in middle school? Yeah. You’re just starting middle school,
aren’t you? Really? Or your own? Because you started at 9 to 13. Yeah, I went in middle school.
Um, so I went to Shadwell. Shadwell had their own school. I went into the Shadwell school for a bit
and then they were like, “Oh.” So, my mom cuz she were bouncing around all women’s refuge. She ended
up down Chapeltown. Okay. And um so then I ended up at Earl Carper. Oh, right. Okay. So So did
all the children did you all go into a home or just you? Okay. Was you you’re the oldest? Yeah.
And second oldest cuz I liked Nicking cars. I I like doing what other kids didn’t like to do. You
know what I mean? So I it well it things pique me interest. I’m like you know that it’s like
Fortnox. I was like this is going to sound wild and um I was talking to my son about it um who was
20. Um, I used to go through a stage as a kid of finding buildings which were impossible to break
into, but then I break into them and I’d be like, “Oh, feeling like how it went out and just I
climbed in a window and climbed back out.” Yeah. Stupid [ __ ] like there was nothing. There was
nothing behind it. It was the challenge challenge. So you’re at you’re at El Kappa. Um, and is that
because your mom’s living in Chapel Town? It makes it easy because you’re traveling from Shadwell. So
we’re going um we’re going weekend leave and then going to school on a Monday morning and then back
to Shadwell. All right. Okay. Yeah. So in all that time you’re still in the home. So when do you is
there a time where you is there is there a period where you leave Shadwell home and you go back
home to mom? No. So you stay in Shadwell home. So I’m guessing then you progress on to the likes
of like East Mall. Okay. Yeah. So um because what people won’t remember is you had Eastmoor but then
you had secure east and just straight to because um I went through a stage of um doing like really
bad really really bad crafts and people like 12 year old and doing a stuff like um is that because
you was easily influenced? Yeah. Yeah, of course. definitely easily influenced. Um well, everybody
that were in Shadwell, all the kids, they were all easily influenced. So all it took was somebody
from the outside going, “Right, I’ve put this, there’s a petrol station. Let’s start there.”
And then we moved on to post offices and then opening branches. Opening branches. You know thing
about opening branches, there’s no money in them. It’s just an opening branch. Yeah. So says it’s
self-explanatory. So, we were clever us. We were geniuses because we were opening branches scaring
everybody for no apparent reason. Wow. Yeah. It’s interesting. But it’s it were grown-ups. It were
all grown-ups, you know what I mean? It’s we were early teens and then well 11, 12, and then you
had like the 16s, the 15s. No, man. Then the 19, the 20s. Wow. From outside of Shadwell like Oh.
Which at the time I didn’t really get into it that deep with them, you know what I mean? And I were
like, “Right, okay. If somebody didn’t feel right, I were gone.” But apparently with other people,
it were different. You know what I mean? And it will years down the line that I found out
some really bad stuff. Um, I mean, back then, you see, a lot of people would because now
obviously there’s the emphasis on grooming in now there’s big emphasis whether you’re talking
about grooming gangs or you’re talking about kids being groomed into selling drugs. But what people
don’t realize is the grooming was going on for a very long time. Even when we were kids, when we
were kids, there was olders that were grooming 89, man. Yeah. That that was grooming you into it.
So from there, obviously you’re doing bad things. Really bad things. So are we saying from there
because you I remember you saying earlier you were talking about glue sniffing. So that would
have been at the in Shadwell. Yeah. So that was Shadwell times. Okay. Okay. So then so from there
you’ve gone into the secure units and secure units just for anybody that don’t realize secure
secure units now are more for serious crimes and and vulnerable young children that they believe
wouldn’t be able to survive in in in prison or young offenders prison. Whereas I don’t think that
was the case when when we were younger. I don’t think it was down to being vulnerable been it with
the age. It was down to the age. Yeah. I walked up at 12. You can’t go at any time. They want you
offenders for 12 year old. So this is why end up in scare unit. Yeah. And then what it what it
a case of if they wrote you a letter, if you got a letter from home office saying that you could
go back there after sentencing, then you were happy. Yeah. And um I loved it then, mate. Yeah.
Because what you find is a lot of people that ever went there on remand stayed there throughout the
whole sentence. um because they applied because they applied for it and because it was already
there and they weren’t causing no trouble then most people did get to stay at the security
unit which in one sense kind of works against it although it is giving you a chance because
it’s saving you from going to prison. However, the secure unit doesn’t actually deter you because
you don’t get that taste of prison if that makes sense. Would you would you agree? It’s more of
a family environment in my skin is it? Yeah, but it’s a lock down family environment and if
you not you got your time out and you I spent many year I hated time out so badly. It were
really really bad. They took the windows out so it like a cell window but with nothing behind it
just fresh air outside. There were no there were nothing in it was just an empty room and they put
you in there with a big steel door if you kicked off. So I went in there once and I never went
back in again and that were enough to deter me because you used to our you used to be able to
gain things, couldn’t you? So yeah, I remember it was you could have posters. I was just thinking
about that. Yeah, that’s number 11. Yeah. Yeah. So it would start then you have a TV, you get radio,
then own clothes, then be post stay up till 11:00 at night. Stay up to 11:00 at night. And but what
people didn’t realize is there’s quite a mixture of people with insecure units in the there’s
young people that have a a lower mental age. Yeah. You know what I mean? And the other thing
about it was is no one in your unit. Yeah. So, and the thing about it is is some of these people
that are in there with you are are in for sexual offenses because of their mental age and they’re
in the secure unit with with the, you know, the the boys that are jack the lads that are in for
violence or Well, yeah, but I will say this, the person that you was in your unit with you guys,
he’s got to be one of the most dangerous people that I ever come across in life. Yeah. He would he
were a big, you know, a lump 15y old m when he was 6′ three about 17 and a half stone he had hands
like shovels m and if he caught you he caught you and but he were dangerous because he had like that
super strength and this is why whenever we went swimming in I never went swimming well the only
person from my remembrance the only person I could remember that could ever control him was big bird
big yeah Cavendish was the only person that could actually get a grip of him and go cuz you were
big and me I’m glad I didn’t I want in Do house, mate. Yeah. Yeah. He’s He’s literally He kicked
a metal door off. Exactly. He kicked a metal door off and and I can vouch for that. There was a
rumor saying that he did it. One million% he did. Getting ghost pimples now thinking about that.
Look at that. Yeah. Million% he did. He came from Four Patch Grange. Okay. Thorpe Park Grange. Um
[ __ ] a horrific child abuse got went on there. Horrific. Yeah. And he was one of the victims that
got bullied to death by staff and then so it were like this is he evolved I think a bigger about
evolution so he evolved into a unit for protection and he become a unit cuz nobody messed with him.
Yeah. When he didn’t have his medication and he kicked off it were like everybody run. Yeah. Yeah.
It were that bad. In fact most staff would put all but all the young all the kids and go right listen
you need to go you’d get moved onto another unit. Yeah, man. And he’d be on the unit by himself
until he’d calmed down. Honestly, like I’d never met I mean, you know, we’re going back in time
and you’re like 14. Well, no. Yeah. Do you know why I’m chuckling? Cuz the guy the kids scared the
life out of me. They were a child. Yeah. But it it took four, five members of staff to control him.
And I’m chuckling because um I wouldn’t swim baths and they got a bit and I like now man, I need to
get out of here. And then I got I got into trouble because I wouldn’t get back in swimming pool.
I’m like, “No, man. He’s too close.” Yeah, he he he was. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, um at our age anyway,
it wasn’t normal for somebody that big to be that big. It won’t I never Yeah. So, we’re doing secure
unit now. So, touch and pass. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, we’re do we’re in we’re in the secure unit.
So, talk to me about that. Obviously, you get released from secure unit. Yeah. Yeah. Let down.
I don’t I don’t know about released. So um they got me the own me on place with um the property
belonged to some wonderful guys Merlin and uh Math um some local decorators from Chapel Town um I one
of their properties and um just it just I don’t know it just went right so I was still stopping at
moms but then I started seeing this girl started um sneaking into gaff um and then um started
to do some more burglaries cuz I like I bored. I’m like this what is going on here? This things
were so much easier when I were um getting told what to do when I were in Shadwell when I went in
security and it things were a lot more easy now got to live in a big bad world. Um how do I get
locked up? How do I get back in a place like that? Um because what people don’t realize is when
you are released, you are just released. Just released. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Here’s a
couple of pots and pans. And that’s literally what it was. Social services went, “Here’s a couple of
pots and pans.” Cuz I only care until I 18. I got when I was 16 and they’re like, “Right, there
you go. Pots and pans. There’s your rain there, there.” And I’m like, “Okay.” So the cycle begins.
Yeah, man. Just burgled off bumping into people. Um I introducing to our Wayne’s mates um and then
going out with them and me new love were making cars. Um I would always burgling houses as a kid.
It would never my real I bear in mind I’m not glamorizing. I used to break into people’s houses
just to get bed. Yeah. Run away from Shadwell. There were like 15 of us on from Shadwell. Break
into people’s house and that just to get something to eat. Not able to steal anything. No man. Cuz we
used to sleep in paper bins of P Park. We’d climb in paper bins and shoot move make a big den and
then just climb into it then put paper newspaper over top of us put a box on top of us and go to
sleep. Wow. 16 of us in a paper bin and then we go out and like right okay so if we see a car move
away from our household they’ve just gone right okay breaking the house. I know I’m chuckling
but it’s what’s I don’t I’m not laughing at the actual thing. It was just we got we’d been caught
because one of the lads he’d left fish fingers on and smoke alarm went off and then fire brigade
came and his fingerprints were all Yeah. When I eventually went back, it’s like I was I stopped
at famous rubber players house cuz his his little brother was in shadow with me. So we used to go
stop at his gap. I actually think I know who that is. I think I know black guy. No. No. All right.
We don’t need to say names. That’s just why. So he used to play for leads and then he went to Leeds
RL and then he went from Leeds RL to New Zealand. So all blacks. Um so yeah stop crashing on his
car. Funniest thing about used to give us clean clothes to put on that you took. This is like a
6’8 ger you know what I mean? Well, I I I only I always small me small little skinny thing and I’ve
got these big 34 waist 38 something man. Yeah. Trying draw things and then tying them around and
Oh dear. Um now at the beginning you did speak about sub your substance misuse. Yeah. So again,
we’ve gone through early childhood where it’s it’s all about children’s home in it basically in and
out of children’s home in Shadwell. Then you end up in the secure unit regardless of whatever crime
it is that was committed or for your own safety or because you was vulnerable. You’re then um in a
secure unit. You’re then on a care order. You’re released from a secure unit and then obviously
you’re back to committing crime. Mhm. So, where does where does the substance misuse begin? Where
where does that bit start? As soon as I got out, man, I started smoking weed again and okay, I it’s
first time I’ really smoked it and I thought, “Oh, it’s not that bad this.” And then I gave um I gave
a crazy white guy a lift from Shepherd’s hair’s view. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy white guy with
glasses. I get his four fingers, man. God rest his soul, he’s passed away now. But I bumped into him.
He asked for a lift to Moortown. Give me a lift to Moortown. Give me a bomber whiz. And it were like
I were absolutely off my It were bad. It took me about five minutes to get to Moortown, Sainsbury
there. And then it took me another five minutes to get back in my mom’s old escort state which were
hand painted orange. Yeah. Were really really bad. Um and then I thought, “Oh, she’s not not that bad
that.” Okay. Um and then a couple of months couple of months had passed then I started injecting um
and it never it never dawned on me. Are we talking amphetamines? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It never dawned on
me that um real friends would have gone n what you doing still get? Yeah. Because there’s different
ways of taking amphetamine. So there was bombing which most people used to put it in a rizla. You
put a little bit in a rizla. You roll it up and then you bite the end off and swallow. Obviously,
there was sniffing um which a lot of people did. Although people think people didn’t sniff drugs
until cocaine came around, but that’s not that’s not true. And then you had injecting which is
the quickest way to get it into your system in it. So you went from I’m guessing bombing bombing
directly straight to injection. You know what it is? I felt you know when you said that then I
felt felt a bit queasy. You know when you said you biting the end off and swallowing cuz that’s
what it like a bomb like a grenade. You just Yeah, that’s what it Yeah. That’s why they called it
bombing was it? So it was just like that. So true true fact the bombers originally little little
Dexedrine tablets which were on amphetamine and they used to give them to World War II pilots
and this is why they call them bombers. So they used to run night missions and the damn busters
all them had to fly low didn’t they were all on amphetamine because they had to do the night
miss the night missions. So what they didn’t understand is when they were randomly dropping
bombs on certain cities and that got getting the targets out of place because they’ve been asleep
they’ve been awake for two days with no sleep. So give more dexter in here. Take that. So then
we taking a bomber wiz and then going going out flying. Wow. Yeah. Like you see you like you like
facts, don’t you? I I do. I do. See when you’re talking about injecting now. Yeah. So how long
does that go on for went on for years that did it? So it went on up until when did I So there’s
two types of injecting. Okay. So I was injecting up until 97. Now injecting wasn’t until 97. 97
came along and I started on heroine. Okay. Which were wild cuz I just started smoking it. Well, no,
I didn’t start smoking it. I even though my teeth were [ __ ] I’d got a really bad toothache and
um it that bad that I got pliers to it and then I smashed the tooth and then some I was selling
at the time which I got I got [ __ ] bite skin of me teeth this why I got none left. Um so I had
to dig a better one because somebody said oh no that’s best painkiller in the world that is it all
right cool. So we’re putting a 10 bag on having 10 mil of it which is the slightest in a pin having
10 mil and that that it best thing it and then the addiction starts there then. So you move from
injecting amphetamines. Yeah. And you could say well I was injecting amphetamines and then smoking
crack but not they want an addiction for crack. It would just because they’re kind of when I
when I’m just looking at that then I’m going amphetamine which is the buzz the high and then
you’ve gone from that to the polar opposite which would then be heroin. So okay so then through
pain so it started off with pain just pain pain meds. Would you say back then you had an addictive
personality? I was an addictive personality. Okay. But um the worst thing about heroin is um the only
way to describe it cuz I did um in reading rehab you have to do a letter to addiction. Okay. So
my letter it involved it was like a swarming it’s like a dirty mistress the dirty mistress who was
always calling you back and she’s like so she’s like I have you see the mistress and she’s like
giving you a hug like come back just come back to me. Yeah. I’ll slowly kill you but just let me hug
you at the same time and you’ll love it. And she’s right. you you do a bit but at the same time she’s
killing you and so yeah me I’m very emotional me so when I wrote the letter to addiction I
did I had to read it out to a group of peers um 12 peers I read it to and I did I got really
emotional because I like wow because reading reading my words and speaking my my not just
thinking your written words as well yeah that’s what it is the written words my written word what
were in my head and it’s finally on paper which took me about 4 weeks to go. You can no longer
deny it then, can you? No. No. Cuz everybody knows now and I’m like so I got really emotional.
Yeah. I’m I’m just because obviously you know of previous people that I’ve I’ve interviewed as
well and some of them have done 12 steps. You like you say you say you haven’t. So you go I did
12 steps in 2009. Okay. Police wanted to interview me to do with Operation Polymer to do with the
kids. That’s do with with children’s homes. Yeah. Yeah. So I were a victim. Well, I’m a survivor of
that. Not a victim. I’m a survivor of that. Okay. So there was 20 20 of us. And for the people that
don’t know about that, that’s down to sexual abuse in children’s homes. Yeah. Towards towards
children in children’s homes. Yeah. So I were one of 20 victims. Four of We’re like brothers
and sisters cuz we all grew up in four of them four of them decided to to kill the send and um
have to speak about it. Yeah. So that would when when I got that news and then I had another lad
come visit me like I’m wanted by police and why do I want to talk to me and I says Jesus about
this man and he’s like I don’t want to [ __ ] talk about that Tommy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because
a lot of people a lot of a lot of people did did play it down, didn’t they? At the highest level
it was played down. And I think a lot of people train themselves to forget about it. What they
don’t realize is the the trauma that yourself and others went through. This is why we’re full on go
snipping. Yeah. Addiction helps bury that. Yeah. And so with all that horrible [ __ ] um I did went
to rehab, did me interview. It broke me broke me out and I was bit um I was doing I’m doing all
right. Then this company called Jordan Solicitors got in touch with me and they says, “Right, we’ve
got compensation per here.” And I’m like, and my head went and they were lied. They were fuming. I
went, “No one [ __ ] people’s killing us.” We’ve got 34 grand. I went, “Keep it. Keep it.” I went,
“Keep it.” I went, “That blood money, man. How can you [ __ ] up with somebody money like that? It’s
it’s I went, “Do you know the difference from the real people?” Because the amount of claims,
hundreds of claims have been made. Do you know how you know the real people? cuz they’re
the people that don’t want the [ __ ] money. So that didn’t push you back in towards Yeah, man.
I ended up relapsing, right? I’m like, what the [ __ ] And then I bumped into the person before
I got sentenced. Oh, yeah. Really bad. Sorry, I’m getting worked up here. No, no, no. Just
want Yeah. And got bumped into person. Listen, anybody watching this is going to understand
somebody that’s gone through sexual abuse, being a vulnerable young person in a children’s
home of around people that are meant to look after you and care for you. You know, they’re sexually
abusing you. Yeah. Worst thing about it though, um, the police used to bring us back. Yeah. And
the certain person, he used to always say it as well. Run away as much as you want. You’re
always going to get brought back to us. Yeah. And technically speaking, you’re getting taken
back to the abuse, are you? Yeah. So, in my head, it’s like they’re all they’re all pissing me
same pot. M sorry the thing about is is because you are recognized as in a want of a better word
a little [ __ ] Yeah. A little comp. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? So they’re constantly taking
you back. But what they didn’t realize is that they’re constantly taking you back to the abuse.
Yeah. That you’re running away from. Yeah. Well, this is why they contacted me in in 2009
DCI Dickinson because I had one of the highest absconding rates 165 times in 12 months
I absconded. Wow. From Shadwell and then wow this is in see that’s like every time they brought me
back I were gone but then um I don’t even mind say something shifted. So my brothers went into care
then I would I were able to swerve all this [ __ ] I knew it were going on. I was able to swerve it.
Like what you [ __ ] off and we’re gone. Know what I mean? Out bedroom window jumped gone. I went
and Richard came in. I went on run. Somebody says, “Oh, you got two brothers.” I’m like, “Yeah,
they’re in K. What? What unit are they in ordering Martin House?” Yeah. Like what? So Martin Phoenix.
Martin Fitz William got house in Lton. Yes. So I had to myself in I because I know exactly what
we’re going on, what we got. Well, you knew the potential of what could potentially happen. But um
it’s like um like explained to copper um as a kid what you think to yourself, oh [ __ ] you think
the worst case scenario 10 years old, right? It’s going to happen to them. I need to go I need to
go protect them. I’m so plan I’m going to go back to the kids home and I’m going to run away with
these. The only way you can think of protecting Yeah. As simple as that. So and I don’t um bear
in mind, let me just say I’ve done a lot of work around this. Yeah. Yeah. um like [ __ ] loads of
work. Uh the a lot of trauma informed stuff. Um a lot of self-healing all you know with some amazing
people. One of them being a guy called Graeme Hail. Absolute [ __ ] mind wizard. You know Yeah.
His m he’s absolutely amazing. He engages with he lets you know you know that you’re all right
man. It’s um he listens. Yeah man. He does. And it’s not just that. It makes you feel empowered
and it’s like right so this bad shit’s happened but it’s all right because um who would you have
back then me I’d have me back then so you’d have you protecting you yeah right okay that’s [ __ ]
I think you’d [ __ ] do a good job and it’s like right so it’s affirming you like bad things
happen it was not your fault you were [ __ ] you were a kid you know what I mean and I don’t
know what he did mind if we said this I don’t know what he did to me but whatever he did it’s like
it’s like X factor in it Don’t know what it is, but whatever it is, you’ve got it. Yeah, man. And
he did. So, I went back. Um, luckily no happened to him. Um, but this one member of staff, he did
he did explain that um he did like our win and Richard. So, okay. Yeah. So, that’s when things
started to happen. Um, and I couldn’t abscond again because all procedures were made. Locking
the windows, putting better locks on the windows, making sure that my bedroom was checked before I
went to bed. You weren’t on the bottom floor. No, no, cuz there were only two floors. Yeah. Yeah.
But um Yeah, man. So, they making sure that I were like literally stripped to me boxy shorts, put in
me, and that were it. But um So, when you got the message, the solicitor’s message, you’re saying
that you relapsed. you relapse. So when did when when is your when when is the first day that you
class as your rehabilitation? What is your first day? Uh 2021. 2021. And that’s been you since
2021. Yeah. This is me since 2021. Well, listen, I I think many people have journeys in life, don’t
they? And um and many people you know have their own trigger warnings have their own trauma and
there’s always something that leads somebody to somewhere which then whatever path that leads them
to and I think most for me I’m going to say me cuz I can’t speak about the audience other people but
I would say it would have been most people would have thought that Tommy Kearns would have ended up
on drugs because of the life that you live. Do you know what I mean? because of the life that you’ve
you’ve lived and what you’ve gone through from an early age. But one of the things that I think
um we do we do talk about and we talk about what people have done to their families through drugs
and they talk about the harm that they’ve caused caused others whether because you know you’ve
got the ripple effects and you drop the pebble you’ve got direct families moms dads brothers
sisters but then you got the community you got your victims and stuff like that. So I’m surprised
I’ve done a lot of No, I know you I’ve done victim the victim awareness stuff. I did um a letter.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where you get the opportunity to speak to the victim and it’s like a it’s like
a restorative justice. Yeah. So I bumped into a guy um and this were weird at the to me it one of
my worst crime so to speak but still a crime all the time. Yeah it man. I know that you can’t take
away how the victim feels. Yeah, I know. But this but I bumped into this guy in little car park and
he said to me went um I said I went went he went you all right Tom and I’m like look I didn’t like
oh [ __ ] I went oh you’re all right. And he went I got your letter. I went oh wow okay. He went
um he went you seem like you changed your life around. I went oh yeah I have it’s been a long
process. He went I forgive you. And I’m like, “Right, okay.” No better feeling there was
there. At the time it it hit hard. So I went, “Right, give me a hug.” And then I didn’t even
go. I [ __ ] off home. Um didn’t say a word all night. Went to five weights next day. Luckily,
it was checking it Friday. Friday Friday when it were Tuesday cuz I had men’s group on Wednesday
morning. Okay. Went into men’s group and I started crying. I went like, “What’s up? You all right?”
I’m like, “No.” Uh, it’s a it’s a happiness that I’m upset, but I don’t know why I’m so upset.
I understand why you would because again, you spoke briefly off camera of the reason
why this one person did stand out. Yeah, man. And I get that and it’s not a situation where
I would have it aired. Yeah. Good man. On here. Do you know what I mean? But you have said off camera
why. And I I you know what it is? I understand because some things live with you for a long time
and sometimes you never get the opportunity to say sorry dear. It’s a conscious. Yeah. No man, you’re
right. It’s crazy cuz I lived in an empty building in town for three years basing in St. Ans corner.
Um and ended up back up and ended up on Edwin. Um and that one of the crimes and it was just wild.
I lived in a lift shaft. Yeah. Um you’ve lived a life to me, aren’t you? Yeah. I’ve never lived a
lot to say you’ve come out the other end. I know. Yeah. You’ve got to be proud of yourself. But what
I want to touch on, go on. I do want to touch on because again and you’ve often throughout this
conversation you’ve seen Tommy smile and and I don’t and I genuinely believe it’s not smiling cuz
it’s funny. I think I think there’s smile because I’m ner there’s nervousness and you go you think
back and some things they do make you smile not because it’s not towards being careless or not
caring but I’m going to smile now because Tommy came up the stairs and as soon as I seen him we
were out of breath and I went [ __ ] I was like mate bloody hell I know them st excuse me I know
them stairs are bad but the reason why I’m smiling is because that was my initial thing but then
when we sat down and you explained yeah why you were out of breath. So like it’s one of them for
like for the audience basically is to explain what how your body is how your body is now. Right. So
I’m on a load of meds um on the highest nail you can have. Um last year my left lung collapsed.
Sorry my left is the elasticity cuz your lungs are elastic bags. Yeah. Yeah. So went for a seat.
Last year I just felt something really bad. So my right lung’s still working and my left lung just
so I went put I thought right I’ve got a really bad chest infection got some antibiotics still
didn’t work stopped smoking but well this was about 18 month stopped smoking um went to hospital
and I went your your left lung stopped working wow so I’ve got COPD and empyema so I thought I could
always beat it me but I can beat this m it’s just it’s just a fake news but it’s real it’s real you
know what I mean so my left lung don’t work Um my right lung there’s only 75% because they took
the top section out to the worm a biopsy. Um I’ve got an appointment in a couple of weeks
um to to to be put on more drugs. So I’m on um three on the morning, two at dinner, two at
tea, and five including meline anti-depressants which are magic um on a night time. Wow. But yet
um and that’s for the rest of your life. That’s for the rest of my life. and blood thinners
cuz I’ve got I’ve got this this leg’s bigger than this leg. Wow. Um for injecting. So,
you know, we often speak about um breaking points and turning points. Yeah. Yeah. In people’s
lives that make them make that change. Yeah. So, I’m going to I’m going to ask you what what is the
turning point where you go like cuz obviously at that time you heroin and you’re injecting heroin.
We’re not going into the complications of how you earning money X Y. Forget all that. But you’re
on heroin. You’re injecting heroin. You’re using every single day. What is the bit where you go?
No, but that’s the difference. That’s J. That’s the old. So this Sorry, I didn’t explain myself
clear enough. So that were the old that were 198 1998 locked up for arms robbery three years. Then
this time when our kid decided to kill himself, I know exactly what would [ __ ] make me feel better
and um it like a weird horrible nostalgic feeling, right? I know exactly how to forget about this.
So then um ended up smoking heroin and crack again. Well, crack first and then heroin after.
And then I went missing. I went missing. Steph, my wife Stephanie, she she’s like, “Um, oh [ __ ]
we need to find police.” She found the police. She posted it all over social media, all over
Facebook. If you seen Tommy, let us know straight away. He’s missing. He’s very vulnerable. He’s um
lost his brother. Yeah. I didn’t want to be in no more. It’s I wanted to know why my brother did
why our wanted to kill us. I wanted to know why. He kept seeing me the week before. You know what I
mean? We had a laugh crack. We had crack and that and he kept saying I’m sorry. I’m like what? Why
you get he went for last week mate? You turned up pissed and that you wanted me to get on session.
I didn’t want to. It’s all right. You don’t need to say sorry man. We’re brothers man. Um but he’s
like yeah no but so when that happened I just I I needed to know why. So in an indirect way I
were trying to sending I wanted to know why. I wanted to know why. Why the [ __ ] would you
do this? Yeah. Find the answers. Yeah. because I were the only one in family that I could come
and talk to. Okay. So, I’m like, why the [ __ ] why why wouldn’t you thingy, man? You know what I
mean? Even now, I still get wound up about like, why the [ __ ] didn’t you just come and talk to
me? You know what I mean? But the worst thing about it is I had a mis call on my phone at 400
and I didn’t pay no mind. I didn’t even know. So, when I looked for all right, okay. So, I tried
ringing, no answer. And that was your brother? That right? Yeah. mis called me and then he killed
his um half past 5 in round park got his rope he were an amazing roofer went among his so in Randy
Park um and I just wanted to know [ __ ] why so when I went to rehab um did you blame yourself
for that you think I mean I don’t know but for me for me I I would have guessed I blamed would I
think to myself if I answered that phone when he phoned at past 4 would he have still done it there
had to have been that That’s wild. That because once you’ve got an amazing miss, if you’ve got
an amazing partner, you know what it is? Um, I piss a mom me about me, miss Ms. I piss a
moment. I’m going to give her 20 year. Yeah. 25 years now. Can’t be that bad then. Exactly.
She’s put she’s never had an addiction problem. Yeah. And I piss him on about her. But I’ve got
a good and I says I went, “Oh no, [ __ ] hell.” when it when my mom phoned me and I’m like I know
that phone call she was the phone same phone call Christmas day 2003 when she phoned me to tell me
Richard had been stabbed to death and I’m like and oh it was just a call sh and I went we need
to go Ashley and she’s like what I went Ashley and then it would only late later on that day and
then I looked I’m like [ __ ] I’ve got this call upon Ashley and Stephanie went don’t do that don’t
do that don’t do that and I’m like don’t do what she’s like don’t do that I’m like right Okay. And
then I had to get brought she brought me back into present moment. Okay. So, but yeah. And so then I
found out that um so I watched this guy. There’s a guy called Joe Lost. I’m not religious, but I’ve
got my daughter Natalie, her nana Pam who lives on um Louis Street. Okay. Le Street. She said she
went, “Nana Pam’s praying for you, Tom. Nana pray nana Pam’s praying for your dad.” I’m like, “All
right, Natalie.” And um my first baby’s mom Diane Dian Blake. Oh yeah. Well, her eldest that’s mine.
She’s my daughter Natalie. Oh wow. Okay. So Right. So Pam is Diane’s mom. Right. Right. Yes. Yes.
Yes. And she’s like she’ll look at you. She’ll see your soul man. She’s got a direct direct link with
her up with him upstairs. So right I needed to go see Pam. Went to see Pam. She sat there eating the
sunflower seeds and she’s going come and sit down. You know what I mean? She’s in the most respectful
way possible. She reminds me of the woman up at Tom and Jerry. Okay. So, I’ve sat next to back in
time. Yeah, man. So, she I’m sat and I just needed to see her because um she’s that woman who’s
got a connection with the guy upstairs. And I genu I’m not just saying this, I genuinely believe
that she has got a link to the guy upstairs. So, what she says happens. Yeah. So she still prays
for me to this day and and that it’s that that’s key that keeps me going. Um so is that your
is that your turning point? That’s my turning point. Okay. That’s me turning point. And again we
don’t need to know what the conversation is. No. So then you go off you’re in rehab and that’s and
that’s you and ever since then. Yeah. So it’s not it’s not about it’s trial and tribulations.
Oh no. Of course. 42 deaths in three years. 42 deaths. So the statist So the statistics
are against us already. So what makes you go into the work that you’re doing? Because I’m not
statistic. Everybody expect me to go, “Oh yeah, no.” No, man. No. I tell you what, I’m going to
do something that I’ve never done before. I’m going to try and do something which is going to be
scary. Yeah. It’s in me stretch zone cuz we’ve got a comfort zone. We’ve got a stretch zone. Then
we’ve got like we’re at free fall. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I’m like, “Right, I’m going to try
somewhere. It’s going to be scary as hell, but as long as I keep winging it, and when I don’t know
some, I just ask.” But you’re quite successful at it cuz you you’ve done some really you’ve done
some talks. Like I know that obviously we had to delay this because you went to Birmingham.
Yeah. Yeah. And then after the Birmingham, you were going somewhere else. So you’re about I
mean you’re doing good things. You’re giving back, aren’t you? For everything you’ve took, you’re
beginning to give back. And you got to understand that I’m I’m sure there’s people out there whose
lives you’ve literally saved. But so you’ve had him on your show already. Yes. Chris Sylvester
says the best thing. You’ve got to have hope. Yes. If you haven’t got hope, you got man. Yeah.
I’m not a 12step, but Pam’s got my back. I’m covered with that that sense. But um because
everybody has different ways of doing things and again through watching certain um shows I I
I learn about the white knuckle. So most people would say if you don’t go into rehab you don’t do
the 12 steps you white knuckling in X Y and Z. But again for someone like you who’s not a believer
in God then the 12 steps is not for you. I’m a believer in God but I’m not a believer in the
12 steps. Ah right there’s one of the steps. So, with what I’ve just talked about as a kid in care,
yeah, one of the things is you have to forgive people that hold you back. I’m not in a forgiving
mood, me to do with certain people, I’m not in a forgiving mood. Understandable. So, that’s why
it didn’t work for me. I’m going to take it. I’m going to I’m going to ask you a question, and I
ask I often ask this question. Um, and I usually get the same answer every time if I’m honest
with you. However, it’s a two-part question. And the question is is if you could go back in
time, what would you change? And if there is anything you would change, why? I can’t I can’t
I couldn’t even cross road 5 minutes late. Um I I’ve thought deep and hard about this cuz I’ve
been asked this that many times. Um it’s like uh I did the graduation speech and people
were asking me afterwards what you could go back into. I couldn’t change a thing. If I killed
the butterfly, the all that carry on. I couldn’t because would I go through the would I have to go
through the abuse? Yeah, of course I would. I’d have to do that. I’m a big I’m eldest lad in my
family. I’ of course I’d go through that again, man. It’s my brothers we’re talking about. I
couldn’t change out. I couldn’t cross the road. I couldn’t change a thing cuz it’s everything that’s
brought me to where I am now. And if I changed anything, I could be dead. So, it’s we’re talking
children’s homes, we’re talking substance misuse, we’re talking sexual sexual abuse, we’re talking
the complications with your with your health. You’re saying point blank. All those things have
led you to where you are now. And that’s why you wouldn’t change. I couldn’t change it. Let me
just get Let me just get this. Let me just say something first. The sexual abuse things that
got twisted and I’m going to say this that got twisted in the early ‘ 90s. So people twisted
that and thought that I were a perpetrator of it. But I’m not going to turn around and say, “No,
man. It was me that got triggered.” Like, “Oh, no.” But but they knew that there was something
much to do with sexual abuse and me. I’m not going to tell people that I was sexually abused. Okay.
I’m a [ __ ] grown ass man. You know what I mean? That [ __ ] don’t happen to me. I had this in my
unit. I didn’t I had a problem with that. And this is why I never said out about anything. I used
to get licks all the time. You know what I mean? One person in particular, he used to every time
he see me, he used to flog me. You know what I mean? And I hated him for it. But it were nobody’s
business. And this is what even the licks I would change. Could I would I have stopped and turned
around and gone, “Listen, you want to know the full story? This is what happened.” But I didn’t
because it would didn’t want his business. And I didn’t want anybody looking at me like I was a
[ __ ] victim. This is why I say I’m a survivor, man. I’m not no [ __ ] victim. You’re not a
victim. as a man, you can’t it’s it’s that old mental that male mentality thing. You know what
I mean? Why wouldn’t you tell somebody that it happened? Why would you? I do. You know what? Back
in ‘ 90s, why would you? I I do you know what? 1 million% I I understand what you mean. Yeah. Why
would you tell? I’m I’m going back into I have to speak on our generation and in our generation
there’s never anybody that’s going to come forward the way the way we was brought up and the areas
that we was from is going to turn around and go yeah I’m a victim wouldn’t do it mate exactly
they would now yeah it’s different times now different times now but back then I don’t I mean
I don’t hand on I don’t know anybody that would have turned around and gone yeah I’m a victim no
yeah and this one person I still see him now and again okay you know what I mean and I’m dying for
him to say something I will [ __ ] whoop him. You won’t. But anyway, so let’s let’s so what about
what advice would you give to your younger self? Cuz that’s not changing anything. You know
what I mean? It’s what advice would you give yourself? That’s a that’s a bloody
damn good question, girl. I’d say to me, I mean, I’m not saying at what age you are.
I’m not saying that. I’m just saying the best advice you would give your younger self. It take
a bit of time, but it’ll get better. It’ll take a bit of time, but it’ll get better. Okay.
I mean, yeah. What more can you say? I mean, I was always told my my nan used to say it to me
all the time. Um, she used to say, “Patient men ride donkeys.” What? Say that again. Patient men
ride donkeys because they’re really slow. Because they’re really slow, but it will get you where
you need to get to cuz you can get a plane, a car, motorbike. But if you get on a donkey, it’s going
to take you the longest to get there. However, you are going to get there. So, have the patience
and few things that that stick out where you go. Yeah. However, there’s a few people that come
on the show that bring um bring me gifts and you know, you get gifts that are promoting
businesses and you get gifts where I mean, can I just say as well, what a chef. He’s actually
bought me chicken, curry, curry, chicken, and rice. But the one that I’m impressed with the most
is this. Now, again, you’re not going to be able to see through the labeling. You’re not going to
be a make of it. However, I would because before we finish, I genuinely want you because I want
to say thank you first of all for this because do you know some gifts that you get sometimes the
gifts are for you personally whereas this gift is not actually for me. It’s for me to save someone’s
life. Yeah, it is man. Yeah. So, what I would like you to do is to explain to everybody what this
actually is. Right. Okay. So, that this is it’s an lock trunk. You can’t really see it inside.
Yeah. So, you’ve got um inside is a syringe with it’s a full syringe with um naloxone in it and
it’s got five shots. So, it’s got markers on the syringe. It’s funny that because at this it’s
just popped into my head. Um you think I’ve got DDHD that that ism thing but um it’s um the lock
and it helps. So if somebody goes over an heroin it to be honest there were an horrible they were
an horrible bastard going around town a couple of year ago in the lock zoning people that was sat
down. Um Oh okay. Yeah. Which is [ __ ] horrible but it’s it’ll help save lives. And um I’m trying
at this moment in time I’m trying to get lead city council to put these with the defibs. So ah yes
it would make sense because you’d have the code you go in there you’d have the pen as well. Okay.
Because use is important. It is because you know the defibrillators, you know why they post them
around town. It’s not because people have heart attacks. It’s because of the spice epidemic.
Okay. One of the things is to bring around. So, does this work as well with with with spice? The
entire thing will work, but then you might need another three. Like I was talking to Will, you’re
done. I administered five of these, which that’s 25 hits. There’s five hits per kit. And um can get
them from your drug and alcohol service. All you can all you need to do is just walk in, ask for
the harm reduction. You can do it forward leads um ask for needle exchange. Go into needle
exchange and just say have you got no lock on kit? You know what I mean? But it’s even to a point
where some lads come in for the jab the needles for the steroids and stuff like that and I’ll sit
grab them, you know, meat heads and like what’s up and they’ll be like no two seconds. Um just have
a quick n. So I’ll pl them into a side room. We go um have you got your locks on kit? I don’t need
that [ __ ] I’m not a smackhead. No, no, no, no, you’re not. But um just it’s always good to
have one like but that just means carrying a No, it don’t. You got to get you the nasal spray.
So you can have the nasal spray as well which you throw up your nose and then you just spray
it and it’s like instant. But this is instant. So it go straight into your blood system. You
don’t need to find a vein. You just stab it in somebody’s ass and then press it or leg or
leg or arm. I don’t want to roll somebody over. Oh, that what you doing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. But um yeah, it’s the same. It would have to be bare skin. So, you wouldn’t do it
through clothing, would you? You’d have to find bare skin. I’ve done it through clothing. All
right. Okay. So, it’s I’m like you’ve just said, you wouldn’t roll somebody over and pull the
pants down. Yeah. And then it’s safe to because it’s a blue ended needle, it’s safe to go through
clothes, right? Cuz you get blue, green, orange, brown. Yeah. It goes down in color. But it’s
to do with the size of the hole in the needle, isn’t it? I think is that right? It’s Yeah,
it’s No, it’s to do with the size of the So, this is about It’s about an inch inch and a half.
Well, I would advise people if you can go down to forward leads. I only know of one place where
the forward leads and that’s leads market. I only that’s where I am. Um, so maybe that’s why it
is. Um, and yeah, so get yourself down and there’s no charge on that. It’s it’s free. How I know that
it’s free, but do you know what it is? Do you know how much these cost per kit? So this is why we
can’t just give out willy-nilly. But if you come to forward leads and that’s for no lock on we will
raply give you one. Okay. The government pays 60 quid per kit. Wow. So that’s 60 quid there. Well
thank you to the government then forward lead. No thank you and thank you anybody that’s going
to use them. Yeah cuz you literally are saving someone’s life that we were talking before really
about dignity. Yeah. Um getting ghost look at me, stand on an end, man. So, um I’ve got seven kids,
me um youngest is just turning 20. Just turned 20. And I’d like to think that the amount of lock on
kits that I’ve give to people administered. I’d like to think that and saving dignity, cover the
person up. Yeah. If if it’s a female, you know what I mean? Don’t have to dress them up. take
your clothes up to your jacket off and cover them and then give them it because I’d like to think if
that were my daughter somebody would do the same thing. Yeah. And this is why I got the Heroes
Award. Um I came second place and the Heroes Award. Okay. In the entire country. Well done you.
I didn’t know. I I didn’t know that. Is that the thing that you went down to be? No, that would
um drinking the DDN magazine conference because they did they wanted to do an article who’s this
hep C guy. So did um I were on TV BBC Look north talking about the numerical drug for hepatitis C.
Um yes yes yes yes. So I were on that I’m on that and as well as I’m on the the way through website.
So if you go on way through or way through.org.uk recovery because you’ve all a lot of you have
all teamed up together. So forwardly way through and touch is it touched touch no Touchstone’s
mental health? Yeah, not touched on human human um humankind used to be humankind um forward
leads and then what happened is you Richmond fellowship Aquarius which is DV and humankind they
all they all they all merged they all became one big conglomerate um so now it’s called the way
through and so they wanted me on they wanted my ugly m photograph so yeah it’s me and an amazing
guy called John a boldy fella chubbyish guy um he does a lot of work with um helping get
people. There’s some good people out there, isn’t there? Including yourself, including
yourself. Won’t go that far. But amazing. This guy’s amazing. This John Guy, he helps people
get rid of. So if somebody’s changed their life around, but they’ve got a life football ban.
Yeah, he’s the guy. Right. Okay. He’s the guy. So he can check on computer. Oh yeah, you’ve been
banned for this. How long ago? What it? Right. You’re in recovery now. He’s changed life. Right.
Right. Let’s see what we can do about that. That’s amazing. So, um, my final question, final final
question before you get to ask me yours, which I’m dreading. I’m dreading this one. I can’t wait. Um,
my final question to you is is um, how is life for Tommy Kearns now? It’s all right. It’s all right.
It’s all right. It’s It’s a lot less chaotic. life. It’s just life, you know what I mean? It’s
Yeah, it’s all right. I’m all right. I’ve got my sister, my big sister’s in recovery as well
now. And I’m so proud of her. Like really, really proud of her. I I took her out for cream
and cake earlier on. I phoned her. I phoned her. I went, “You’re all right for you.” And you come out
for a cup. She went, “Oh, I not even dressed yet, kid.” I went, “All right, I’m going to take you
for tea and cake.” Nobody’s into it. Whoa, whoa, whoa. She went, “Right, I’ll get dressed.” So,
picked her up. Everyone likes a free eBay. Yeah, man. took her tea and cake and then um we went
chariot shop hunting cuz chariot shop and she found this big throw over and she were like I
can’t take that home but apple go nuts. So why I bought it I went right now you got a reason to
take it home. That’s good. But yeah um life’s good man. Life’s good. I’ve got my kids. Life’s life’s
different. Life’s amazing man. My kids I my son my kids are so ragged and I’ve got two beautiful
grandkids as well which I I can’t wait to see. I love them so much in Disneyland at the moment.
You’re you’re at that stage of your life now where you can enjoy you can actually enjoy life
now. You you have the opportunity to enjoy it now. I’m addicted to food. I’m sorry. I’m addicted
to food. Cheesecakes. There’s a place at market, man. They said apple turnovers with fresh
cream. I haven’t seen them since ‘ 90s, man. I was having a conversation with somebody
about old school duffs. Yeah. Duff. When you used to get the old mint one as well. We used to
get the mint custard. Like where’s this me custom gone now? Like you don’t you don’t even see it no
more. But yeah, so I’m going to prison as well. Um so Oh yeah. So you you do you go into prisons.
You’re working within prisons as well. Yes, I am. Yes, I’m working with a guy called Lee
Sandy Lands. Amazing guy. Um just been invited to his wedding. So we’re going to So it’s it’s
this Wednesday coming. We’ve been allowed to go to HMP Hatfield. Okay. So we deliver um six
week course a six what I mean by six week is six times we’re allowed in the prison. We
deliver a course on understanding recovery and addiction. So we talk about different
types of drugs the difference between um oh it’s gone out my head. It’s the classes
the effects. Oh it’s the different types of downers and uppers type. Oh, it’s like LSD is a
upper. Yeah. No, it’s LSD. It’s much to do with neuro some of that affects the brain. Okay.
Neurological. Yes. So, we talk about that the effects of neurological and neural pathways. So,
for um a new neural pathway to set root and then to start to grow, it only takes 21 days. Oh, wow.
Okay. So you stop smoking, you vape and it’s then what happens then is So this is what I got told.
Why are you throwing me under the bus like that? Like like if you stop vaping you’re the one kind
of people I don’t like is those that stop smoking. Always got something to say about somebody. Do
you know what I mean? No. So what is when I were in rehab when I went I went in little Dale L meet
the guy said to me went 21 days and I’m like yeah that’s [ __ ] that I’ve Googled it and he went
you’ve got I know what what Google says. He says, “But Google’s not living it either.” And I’m like,
“What do you mean?” He went, “You’ll know what I mean.” And I get it. So 21 days it just goes
boom. So then you dug some after 21. So 21 days you dug some. So the only way to describe it is
a bowling green fresh green turf ready for take walk across it. 21 days. If you walk across it
21 times, 21 days, whatever, it’ll create a path, won’t it? Yeah. That’s the neural pathway. That’s
how the brain works with the neuropathway stuff. So after 21 days of allegedly not vaping,
I won’t vape. It’s if you didn’t vape, you didn’t be none of this cheekys. But yeah.
Yeah, I get it. I do. So it’s stuff like that with teach. We’ve just done HMP Lincoln, which
is wild because arm is full. Yeah. I um so I got offered I got asked to go into HMP leads
on Christmas Eve just gone which were really adamant which was really significant because in
2003 Christmas Eve night Richard was stabbed to death and they’d been just been out of prison two
weeks. So I like right okay 2023 2024 23 going on to 24 I got asked to go going to prison and I’m on
Christmas Eve. So I went in to Armley and I said to lad I went reason why I’m here is because um
this day back in 2003 my brother stabbed to death tomorrow. So sub Christmas Eve, Christmas night
were found. Christmas day were found at flats at Lincoln Green. So this is why I’m here. And what’s
wild is I know the lads that we’re talking to, they already know this and they’re like, “How
come you’re here? I want to put” And I’m like, “I’m here because I feel like I need to be
just to It’s easy to get complacent. I know what I know. I don’t know what I want, but I
know what I don’t want.” Yeah, I get it. Well, gosh, here comes the dreaded bit. So, as always,
sorry. I want to thank you for coming on. I do. And I’m going to thank you again at the end
after. But you get your opportunity now. So, you get your opportunity to ask me. It’s
not bad. Any question you want. Listen, it don’t matter what it is. I’ll answer it.
Right. So, Carla, when was because I know you. I’ve known you for years since we were kids and
you’ve always been that. Do you know the first time I remember you from? When we were all up at
St. Edy’s church when it were the youth club. Oh, yeah. That’s where that’s where my mom lives.
Yeah. And then you we you jumped in kind you all went down and they were me c a couple of others
and we all bumped into thingies at the corner shop up Chapel Town. Okay. You know what I mean?
That’s how how far back. So my question to you is this. When did you when did you finally get
your grown up head on and go, “Fuck this [ __ ] I’m not doing this anymore.” Oh, I thought you was
going to come with a better question. No, no, man. No. I um might have worded it wrong. When did you
think right okay prison is not for me. I can’t be asked this [ __ ] It was again I’ve spoke about it
many a times. It’s it’s a letter from my mom. It’s um obviously there were certain things going on.
Um certain people that was getting injured, people were dying. Um and yeah, my mom just wrote me a
letter and you she was just general conversation, just general conversation. Then at the end she
just wrote a mother should never bury the son. It should be the other way around. Um so yeah.
Yeah. I know man. Yeah. That’s when you um you relinquish the nappies and you you put your big
put your put your big boy trousers up trousers on. That’s one of my favorite things. Yeah. Do you
know what I mean? So yeah, that’s for me. And then I think getting into what with the work that we’re
doing now, I’ve been in this field since 2019 now. Bloody hell. Um, so yeah, it’s um I’m just trying
to I’m trying to help young people, but people must it’s not about now now because I know of
myself and I know that I wasn’t ready to change for years. Do you know what I mean? So, what I’m
trying to do is give young people the knowledge, educate them, um, demystify all these things that
they they hear and give them a true reflection so that I know that not everybody’s going to change
at the same time. However, what I want them to do is have the knowledge so that when that time
comes, instead of them starting to get ready, they already have the information. So, they’re
not starting from zero. the road is starting about 15 20 steps in front because they’ve got
the knowledge already there. Yeah. That they’ve saved. I think the stuff that you’re doing
it’s I seen you gone to a school to talk about um county line stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
And that blew my head. I was like, “Oh, wow. No way.” And it absolutely blew me head.
And I’m like, and then I thought there’s a possibility that if I think I know what you’re
gonna say, but we’ll talk about that. Yeah. No, but it is it’s I think in in all I think I don’t I
don’t know exactly, but I’m going to give a rough estimate. I reckon I’ve my assemblies and and
if I was speaking of individuals, I reckon I’ve done around I reckon I’ve done between 100 and
15,000 pupils spoken to them. Yeah, that’s Well, it’s over realms of different things. It could be
it could be knife crime, weapons awareness, gangs, county lines, joint enterprise, county lines.
That’s what it is. You know what I mean? There’s many numerous things like we’ve got a list of up
there. If you look up there, we’ve got like 30 odd presentations that we deliver which we know
that nobody else is is delivering. We know that factually that’s just primary and secondary
school. So yeah, that’s that’s the journey. That’s that’s the journey that we’re on. Proud of
you, man. No, proud of you, mate. Proud of you, man. Cuz your journeys has been longer and harder
than mine. No, man. But listen, Tommy, I want to thank you for coming on, mate. Listen, I app you
take care. Thank you. I appreciate you. You too.
3 Comments
Nice one Tommy 😻
Well done Tommys super proud of you xx
Absolutely amazing this Tommy. This hit me differently and welldone for where you are now. Keep up the amazing work Carl, im proper hooked on these podcasts and cant wait for the next one. 🙏🏼💯