Ep 207 One World in a New World with Eyra Moon and Mathieu Iking
Sound, Silence, and the Space Between
🌌 What if music isn’t just sound—but memory, medicine, and multidimensional guidance?
In this transcendent episode of One World in a New World, Zen Benefiel welcomes Eyra Moon and Mathieu Iking, the soul-connected duo behind The Halo Experience, an immersive sound and energy field designed to return people to their truest frequency. Eyra’s hauntingly beautiful voice and Mathieu’s energetic healing work create not performances—but portals.
Together, they discuss sacred partnerships, creative surrender, the power of healing sound, and their shared journey from personal trauma to planetary resonance. This is more than music—it’s a return to the source within.
💡 Can trauma open us to our soul’s song?
💡 What happens when we get out of the way and let spirit create?
💡 Is nothingness the most healing space of all?
🎧 Step into the resonance—where voice, vibration, and unity frequency awaken the light within.
Connect with Eyra: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eyramoon/
Connect with Mathieu: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mathieu-iking-a1b3b72/
Echoes of the Unknown: https://realworldlive.com
#EyraMoon #MathieuIking #TheHaloExperience #OneWorldPodcast #SoundHealing #UnityFrequency #SacredSound #HealingThroughPresence
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navigate the depth of human experience. Namaste and in lak’ech and welcome to this
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It’s my 43rd. It’s called Planetary Citizens: Awakening the Heart of Humanity. And it is
getting some stellar reviews on Amazon. So, it’s free to you. Check it out, find some
benefit in it, and I know you will. So, thanks so much. This week’s guests are Eyra
Moon and Mathieu Iking. They are two fabulous people from the Netherlands who have found each
other and have been producing sound healing music for some time now. So, we’re going to
get into a really great conversation about first how they came together, what music
means to them, how deep it goes, and what the benefits are that you can experience.
So, don’t go away. We’ll be right back. [Music] So, welcome, you two. This has been a wonderful
flow to these moments where we can be here together and and express ourselves in ways
that maybe we haven’t been able to for a while. Thanks for being here and Ira and uh Mathieu.
So um you know we were just talking about ADHD. I I was talking and my head went elsewhere and I
had an out-of- body moment. So, I’m back. Let’s shall we continue. Um let’s uh you know the two
of you came together recently. First of all, let let’s Who are you and what do you do? we have
a brief or I gave a brief um about your work and it’s much more in the bridging of inner and outer
worlds than most of the interviews that I’ve done so far. So I’m looking forward to hearing more
about this and and sharing it with our audience. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Um yes. Well, we met about four years ago,
almost four years ago. He was doing healing uh he was facilitating healing energy groups
and he asked me to play hand pen and sing and I was very happy single and so was he. And we
were just doing the inner work so to say and uh I was really happy just being on my own,
having my friends, having my work and then a friend of ours connected us and she was smart. She
knew how much I wanted to be single and she knew about him. So she said just play hand pen with
him and see how it goes from there just to work together or have a great friend. And then I saw
his YouTube video and I was instantly oh okay he could be a a match and that was really
there’s some possibility here right yeah I was nine years single so I was
u I was really um surprised by myself so to say and then he asked me to play on
interesting pardon me for just a moment the 9year cycle right the completion you ready
and I was coming from a so-called twinflame story. So, I was completely fed
up with everything. I was done. And then uh yeah, we met for to play on
your uh event. Um and that was really weird because we stepped out of each each
our own car and he said, “Now what?” And what a great question. Uh let’s work together.
But yeah, it was a pandemic as well. So when it was out of the question to go to restaurants and
so we bought some food in an in a supermarket and ate in the car with alcohol-free champagne and he
said, “Oh, you don’t drink either.” And I said, “No, you don’t either. Check.” Cuz
I was done with alcohol as well. And then yeah, from there on we just really
clicked straight away on the work as well. Mhm. And then later on his his guest actually
said the participant said you know there’s something going on there when you combine
the energy healing with the sound healing and that was actually for the first time
that something more seemed to be happening happening and that was the reason why we needed
to connect. That sounds just amazing. And from your perspective and and going through the
process, longing for someone that you could connect with and yet being happy being single. I
I get that. You know, I had a practice marriage that I had 30 years that I waited till I found
uh or was introduced to my twin flame, Luba. Um Mathieu, how about you? What
was your perspective of what was happening? And then I want to dive a little
bit deeper into the prep work to get there. Yeah. I was uh actually when my uh uh awakening
happened, I moved from Holland to IA like got off all everything I was uh I was doing. I was
working in advertising and for some reason healing stepped in. Energy healing. Long story short,
you kind of need to be healed after you’ve been pummeled with advertising, right? Yeah, I needed
a long pause of healing, you know. It’s like uh it’s it’s a long story, but uh it helped me
get through all kind of kinds of addictions, ego bursts and stuff like that.
And Ogilvy, of course. Sorry.
And Ogilvy, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The thick book. I learned
it inside out. Yeah. But um I was in Eitha and I just broke up or not just but four
years before I broke up with uh mother of my son and it was a very strange uh no doubt
interesting interesting relationship I had to like uh heal from. So I did I I was living on a
mountain and four years of internal work is actually uh it was it was needed. So I was fed up
with ladies as well. Completely fed up. So in the end I was completely open to receive. I didn’t
realize that. But I wasn’t expecting anything. I wasn’t looking for anything. I was just
Well, that’s the whole thing, right? Isn’t it that the old adage is, you know, whatever
you’re searching for, let go and it’ll show up. because you’re searching that there there’s a push
and pull of energy that doesn’t allow things to really connect, you know, and I can relate to the
oh the the trauma. Um my practice marriage, my we have four kids, I have eight great grandkids now
and you know then 30 years later I’d been through several relationships hoping to find someone
that I could connect with. Never happened. And then I was fine being by myself too, right?
I was just enjoying life and and then I got to a place where was you know this just
isn’t enough and come on guys look he promised because I’d had a an event early in
my life that kind of said okay certain things will show up at their appointed time right not
necessarily mine but when it’s ready it’ll happen and and it finally did and u you know
there were dreams and visions and things that set it all up and then I get invited to
a Kundalini yoga teacher training graduation by a friend that I had met two weeks prior at an
outdoor music festival. Just things, you know, the impeccability of the setup is amazing. So,
I show up. I’m sitting in the back of the room. This woman gets up, walks in front of me,
and my heart literally flips in my chest. And as evidence of here it is, right? Had no
idea who she was. she looked like my daughter’s age and so I was like no wait a minute I can’t
go there and then uh she gets introduced and uh Luba Broaddsky is is her name and I heard the
broadsky it’s like oh Russian way cool because my life’s been themed with harmony among people on
planet what a better you know what better partner to have than somebody that’s supposed to be our
archeneemy right and so that was impeccable and then uh you know walking up to her afterwards
and saying, you know, I find you intriguing and and uh would love to get to know you. Uh
can we have coffee? You know, I’ll even make lunch for us if you’re open to that. The first
thing she says to me is, “Are you reading me?” Wow.
So that launched and you know, and she’s also trained in uh in Msorski College in St.
Petersburg as a piano pedagogue and accompanist. Wow. So she has been at the level um she
accompanied Berishnikov for instance. Yeah.
In uh her prior life um and another well-known artist here actor Patrick sees um his
mother had a dance studio and and he continued in that as well. So she played for him by request
and she’s amazing site reader. um she still has 26 students now and and she’s pulling out stuff
every once in a while and just site readading it and impeccably so and it sounds classical,
right? It just sounds so amazing. Um yeah, but I digress, right? Um so and I digress.
So in this as you’re both internalizing these functional factors in stepping
into your next steps in life together, what did you notice as the core prep work that
you were able to understand and perform to be available for it? I understand that in the moment
you probably had no consideration of that. It was just the now, right? And it felt like here we
go. However, we’re often prone to kind of of looking at things and examining, okay, what fit
where and how and when and and all that kind of stuff. And did you do those kinds of things in
your own processing? Whether you spoke about it to each other or not, I I’m unsure.
In the beginning, I had a moment of uh a tremendous trigger and fear. The first time
he said, “Uh, I think I like you. Do I have to respond right now? [ __ ] [ __ ] I’m not
sure if I’m ready.” And what will I respond? I’m not I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know
anything. And then I completely got in my tower. Um but after that he was so wonderful because
uh I spoke to a friend who did the same uh in June a tunein training as me and she said are
you not really afraid of that someone will stay with you for a change and get to know you
the whole of you is that not your biggest fear great discussion
why like crazy and then I said yes that’s that’s my biggest fear because
then I you know when someone is always there with you. He sees everything. Also, when you’re
not that charming and blah blah blah. So then uh after the breakdown, I could text him back,
I’m so sorry that I didn’t text you sooner, but I didn’t know what was happening with me
and I was getting caught up in a old process. And then he texted back, “Is it an idea that we
do this together?” And I was like, “Holy [ __ ] I want to I want this guy.” And this is the
guy. he so matches my vibrational null vortex or whatever. And um yeah, we so he quickly uh we
quickly spoke about triggers and fears and and um belief systems and past and everything
and frequency response. Sorry. And frequency response.
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah, you really got it. And the on the
work area actually everything flowed. We almost never Yeah. Now sometimes we we speak
about a little bit we we argue a little bit about what do you want? What do you want? But the whole
development of the music and the energy together. We just had a in no time we had a tour
with uh well sometimes even quite big churches and hundred people and then that just
happened and we called it the Halo experience and we don’t know who c came up with it
but it was just there and we called it the Halo experience and yeah that’s actually
do you find with the um you know the common phrase is law of attraction right what you
focus on you produce And so knowing that, you know, if we’re going to have some
fears, let’s make them good ones, right? Yeah.
So your fear of that further connection brought it about. And I’m I’m wondering here, you
know, because in the recursive function aspect of being the the the understanding that we question
ourselves continually looking for answers, right? So we dissolve into that nothingness in
order for answers to come. And being able to function that way gives you the opportunity to
hold paradox. I don’t want this, but I do want this. Right. Yeah. And going through that, you
deliberate deliberate yourself yourself from that belief. And then I really believe that you sort
of expand your consciousness and if we all do the entire planet at some point will um and that
goes in layers. So we’re not done. We’re we’re seriously not done and awakened couple.
Nope. Sit in the car with us and you will know the
truth. That’s fine. I’m sitting on the other side of the world from you and I still know
it. Yeah. You see stuff that’s unfair. No, but it’s interesting. Uh when we met, I I’ve
I went through before I met her through a big uh shift in in going into trust and especially
in trust in me because uh my big uh theme was jealousy. So imagine being in a relationship
with a jealous person. I’m not sure if you Mhm. but this is like hell. At least not not
even for me but for the other other parties. Sure. Well, both. Right. It’s in congruent.
There’s disturbance. There’s a disturbance in the force. Right. But I was I was able
to go through that uh at a certain point and that’s why when we met I realized that
this was if you talk about frequency there was like knowing knowing beyond beyond all these
layers of of pain and stuff. So the recognition was was beautiful and that’s why it flowed from
the start. You know, it’s like free meat and um well, and the two field the field that you’re
in together, right? You’re highly attuned to that ability to sense resonance [Music] and that
continues because then you as you as you say this I remember I was very jealous as well and imagine
our our audience is almost always women and they all want to hug and I don’t feel any jealousy
at all which is quite new for me. So yeah, and it makes sense because when you are home
with yourself, why would you be why would you? Well, it’s funny you mentioned that, you know,
most of your audience is women. Um, when I first got into metaphysics and and exploring, you
know, the area here in Phoenix, the majority of of people involved were feminine or women.
Um, and so as as a guy, I was like kind of out of the norm. And it was an interesting navigation
with all the energies that people were unaware of that they would share and that I was sensitive
to and would often get this um reflection from others of where they were and not necessarily
where I was. Thank you. which made it a little difficult and and you know those different kinds
of uh challenging emotions come up right whether to move with them or just stay still and observe
and recognize okay this is going on what what’s this about when you know how am I feeling in
my body um what’s it mean is it something that I need to pursue or something I just need
to be aware of yeah it’s a thin line. Yeah. So, in that for the the two of you, um we were
talking about COVID and this um door opening that it facilitated. Um and the two of you met during
and slightly after. And uh I you had uh put what a couple of albums or or produced a couple of them
um to date and then this next one that you guys put together the I love the title Echoes of the
Unknown. It’s actually our first uh Together album because the other one was uh yeah was on my own.
Right. That that’s the distinction I was hoping to make is this. you were fine by yourself and and
now this opening happened and it let’s go back to that um during that experience of co was there
the opport well obviously you took the opportunity that opportunity being to self-reflect
to go inside to you know the obsession on self-hy and sequestration seem to have a behavior
modification effect that internalized over time for some possibly maybe. We haven’t really figured
that out yet because we’re still showing up, right? How was that for you? Did you notice
a a deeper inner quest independently and then when the two of you came together, what
kinds of things did you discuss about that? Well um we were already on this path. So for us
it it was like ah yes more that was the the the response at least me and for later on it it
uh it happened to be the same same feeling. Of course it helped for us to to go
deeper and and when we met we were able to uh to see what would uh come from that. But
I was very happy that finally uh there was a mass awakening in a sense happening. So that
was really uh felt really wholesome for me and um yeah we could see a lot of shifts
happening in people close to us and and and uh during the gatherings as well. Finally
people realized that they were not these conspiracy theorists. they were actually
seeing stuff that other people didn’t want to see and and all the mechanisms started to uh
unfold and everybody could see if they wanted if they could go through the fear-based illusion
then uh yeah we we could see mass shifts happening around us but of course when when this all
disappeared people started to because they were wired this way going back into their old habits
and now it’s it’s we hope that we have still we will still be managing uh to to get them in that
same clarity you know that’s that’s more or less the the whole purpose of what we do as anything
you know life’s a a nonlinear spiral right um sometimes non-local even and in that
process it being able to recognize it as such we understand. Maybe you picked it
up as well. It seems anyway that there’s this greater understanding of patience,
time, allowance, um noticing things and just noticing rather than grabbing a hold of.
Yeah. Because who is getting a hold of what this? So
there is Yeah, it’s hard not to bask in this, right?
Yeah. Well, the halo experience at the end. So there’s this energy healing during that. There’s
the sound. I don’t like the word sound healing, but there is me getting melodies through and that
does something to the people or the people pick out something that they need and then we end
with a meditation in which they experience the nothingness. So guided to it, we go to a field of
nothingness and you can dissolve your body. Hey, that’s interesting. There’s still
something that watches that observes. Yeah.
And and we hope because that was my journey through the pandemic. I was
uh stuck in Spain. I couldn’t go back because I didn’t have money to go back to the Netherlands
and then I should call the embassy and blah blah blah. And I was not ready. So I could and we were
not allowed outside. So I was in an Airbnb stuck. So there was only one way and I was going inward
and I was very very happy with that because then I finally could go through layers for layers for
layers until there was nothing absolutely nothing right
and I wanted to bring that back to the people. So we and because he
facilitates this field that sort of you could say dissolves the ego which is always there is always
present. We cannot kill the ego. we don’t want to but it’s sort of the experience of having no ego.
So the the um meditation and the experiencing nothingness even people who didn’t never
meditate at all say wow that was what was that right right how do you explain that it it’s this
deep sense of just all knowingness in thatness coming home they say yeah it’s going home so
people people know about this but they don’t know about this
they remember right yeah we hear the talk about it it’s just a
direct experience of it that’s lacking a bit and and that’s the the again the recursive function
that’s the core the source right that’s where we go to make inquiries and it evolves from that in
each one of us we each are connected in our own individuated ways and yet there’s a collective
experience of that that can be had and then the ego shifts to we go we go wow That’s nice.
I love that. Right. Well, isn’t that what’s happens? Wow.
Yeah. Right. You move beyond the ego, which is about
protection and direction and query and thinking, right? And then you get out of the thinking
into the sensing which opens up new worlds that you’ve been able to provide experience of
in a direct way which makes a huge difference. You can think about things you can extrapolate
about them. You can have all kinds of thought experiments until you have a direct experience of
it. I mean that makes it indelible. Then it’s the embodiment as you said. An old lady I know
calls it um doors open from the inside out. Mhm.
That’s exactly it. And and all the ancient scriptural things,
calendars, all kinds of, you know, sages, soussayers, all those folks are saying the
same thing. You know, Blovatki even did it. You talked about the layers of having to descend
into this terrible place because it’s frightening, right, initially and then you realize, oh,
there nothing to be frightened of. [Music] Yeah. I remember that I was not afraid of death all
my life, you know, it’s like the button didn’t wasn’t pushed. And then I had this experience
of me leaving my body for just for a couple of seconds. I was just here and I was like, why am
I here? I’m here. I’m not here, you know? Uh, and then the the experience was already gone. But
I had the experience of me not being my buddy, right?
Thank God the next day I had an appointment with my let’s call it spir
spiritual teacher and said, “Yes, finally you you you know what the truth is.” I said, “What is it?”
Yeah. You are not a soul living in a body. You are a body living or at least the next layer of it.
Right. Exactly. you’re inside out and that’s why uh and then finally all quarters like uh hit rock
bottom and I was like okay so this makes sense he said the good news is you cannot die
and for me it was like if you talk about remembering this was a big moment it’s like oh and
then everything fell into place you know and then if you cannot die let’s make a party right
we’re here to to enjoy and make the the best of it you know and therein is the
bridge right the bridging of okay now I’ve had this this experience now what
exactly and you hit the pause button and you wait yeah exactly a lot of
shifts happened after that as well which is because you shift in consciousness so
the next insights and and information is coming into your system and needs to integrate as
well that do you find did you find in that process where and we spoke about this rete
uh show is the practicality of things. How how you ground this understanding into something
that’s sharable. Well, it was the healing work that came through. My experience is is that I
at a certain point started to download certain frequencies. It’s a long story. I will not uh
bore you with it, but that’s my understanding. And by doing that and if I uh like do a healing
session, these frequencies are available for people to bathe in and to receive whatever they
need. So that’s the practical thing when like well you get the download you then you open
the file, right? It’s like okay what’s in here? That’s really practical, right? It’s
like and it’s not me doing it. It was like uh it wanted me to download and then be available
to just be the door for people to experience this. And this is to me the eye, the
self ultimately is doing it. It’s just a greater part of yourself that we haven’t
connected with yet to understand the magnitude of because we’re always taught right part of that
programming is that you’ll never be worthy. M exactly
right. Well, what if we are Yeah, that’s a big one.
The universe wants you to do it on purpose. So, no even worth. That’s not a word in the universe.
I don’t believe in worthy or not worthy. It’s there. And words often get in the way. Which
leads me to the next question in this. Excuse me. the energy that you go into and come from in
your vocalization. It provides just a monopoly of opportunities, right, to tune in and feel and
sense and explore. Um, how did you begin to become aware of the effect that you of the gift you have
and the effect that it has? Well, to be honest, I went to Spain for the music, but the music
industry, so to well, that was a good idea when the pandemic started. Everything was closed.
Sure. So, um, people had said to me in the past, “You have a healing voice.” And it didn’t make any
sense to me. I didn’t understand what they meant. Yeah. Tapping you on the shoulder, right? Hello.
No idea. But actually when we started to work together um people said wow when you stand behind
me and you sing this melody I feel my throat doing this or this or my heart opened or people said
that they saw themselves in a in a column of light and then we were in the car and I said Matthew
what what is that? What are people saying? I have no clue. And and then we in over the years
we started to realize that what what happens with Matthew with the energy sort of if you can compare
anything at all is happening through the voice. Mhm.
The only thing that I do remember is that uh when I moved back to the Netherlands there there
was a certain point that I really well remember and I feel something happened there. There was
a beam of light shining in my attic and I was just it was a very dark attic. So I was sitting
there and I oh wow the light let’s meditate and something happened. I started to do like this very
like becoming crazy and then turning like this and holy shoot I couldn’t even stop it
right and then um right after actually we met. I didn’t
meet you back then yet. So right after we met, I think maybe two weeks later or so and
then the whole thing started and then uh I asked the psychic can you see what actually
happens? Why is the healing voice? And he said, well first of all the sun activates light codes
in the DNA and that’s what you’re doing. Okay. But what does it mean actually? um the agreement
what happens to the person is already made. I could even just read this um little manual,
how to manual and something similar will happen. But through the focals um I just put myself aside
and just ground and then I just open myself up for whatever wants to happen. And then melodies come
and I don’t know where they come from. And there’s not me composing. The whole album Echoes of the
Unknown is therefore has therefore that title. I have no idea where they come from. But they come
through me on the spot in one take. Everything you hear on the album has not been composed
apart from song three by a composer. But the vocals were there and were recorded in one take.
Sure. And that’s the the live jam if you will, right? Where you open yourself up. Um Mah Chet
Chicken Mahaley wrote a book called uh flow, the psychology of optimal experience. And
in that he talks about it being like a jazz quartet that just loses themselves in the
moment. There is no identity. There’s no ego. There’s just a conversation that
that is beyond imagination, right? And with you, as with all of us, our bodies are
instruments. We just haven’t learned how to tune them yet, which is all that inner work that
takes place. And those sensations that your audience report feeling
is that happening. Yeah. It’s still all of this is so new. How do
we articulate you know and share and find some uh commonality in this expressive new
language or do we need a language at all? No,
better not. Yeah, that’s true. It’s all energy in motion.
That’s uh what we really just we’re all energy and this is nothing new.
Even science already proved this long time ago. Absolutely. I interviewed Dr. Urban llo several
years ago he just turned 90. Amazing guy, you know, and he says that I I thought his
expression ego, right? I’m like, okay. So, it’s um quantum physics shares that we’re
99% space and 1% material. And he’s like, h I would say we’re 100% energy. And he’s like, oh, slap slap dumb [ __ ] Yeah, but I was willing to go there, right?
It’s like, okay, so let’s test our truth and don’t be afraid of it and if we’re wrong, it’s
okay. Whoever has more information will provide that. And we both get elevated that way. There’s
even more that I wanted to add because Matthew and I both like to visit power spots, you know, like
energy power spots like Stone Ange or, you know, those mountains or stone circles or whatever.
And we’ve got Sedona here. Oh, wow. It’s the big one.
When when can we come? And um we will be there one day. Yeah, because
your um uh the downloads started actually there and now we hear as a feedback from the
album from people who do not know us. Oh, with that song I saw Merlin’s cave from the
uh King Arthur Castle in the UK. Check. We’ve been there.
Mhm. Uh that song we we saw I saw the Scotland
Highlands and Yep. Check. And there I saw a tour from Glastonbury. Yep. check and that
is as if you bring those frequencies with you. It sort of gets in
as if okay well you carry it right it’s we are what we focus
it on or not right if we don’t focus on anything we carry everything and in that especially
you know in Sedona area um we actually got married on the base of Belt Rock in the fall
equinox of 2017 um been going there for years and and with his vortexes and experiences,
there’s this just elegance, if you will, of how the expression of what is comes through.
We just got back from a short stand up there. We caretake my uh mother-in-law, she’s uh 91 years
old, advanced dementia, frontal lobe. Um and so we get a respit every once in a while. And so
we went up to Sedona and we had this experience u with the moon and and clouds and things
that were just exquisitly synchronistic with the conversation that we were having so much
so that it was both of us witnessed it. Wow. It wasn’t just a singular and that’s where like
with you two right there there’s now four eyes witnessing. Yeah. or at least two eyes right
from that inner spot that are witnessing and the same thing and sharing perspectives
of it which further anchors that drop in the pond if you will that then ripples
through the rest of the thought. Yeah. Exactly.
Yeah. And we just love it there. Before I knew him, I was just there and I don’t know, I
was drawn to Carnak in France, which is like a a row of stones for for miles and miles.
Mhm. Well, I had no clue what could be there or and then he of obviously was already
uh known to subtle senses like warm hands or a little bit of more beating of your heart or
warm hands or the energy is different and and therefore I started to notice that too. But for
me as a child that was so normal that I had no clue that there that not everybody sensed that
because I always had warm hands when a dog would run over the street and would get by a car. I
immediately did this as a child and I didn’t know why. I thought that everybody did that. M
so I sort of fell asleep in my later on from 12 on to 30 I was very much asleep
and then because of working with him I started to notice those differences and
especially at these energy spots. Yeah. Sure.
Well, you know not necessarily you were sleep you were just taking
a well-deserved nap for a while. Yeah. Well, I started to believe the others. That was the
problem. And that that needed to be happening because then now I understand clients much better
or the participants in the Halo experience. Absolutely. You have to have that experience and
you know like Matthew was talking a bit ago about having to be inside something in order to the
advertising world, right? You have to go into it. Yeah.
Suspend your belief system of it. in order to gain the clarity that it presents
whether it it’s um something that’s disturbing or something that’s soothing right that’s the whole
Dallas and it goes back into the body and the um the instrument right and what is it the uh
I think it was the Moury that it came probably further back the Aboriginal right the threebrain
system the gut the heart and the head and that that’s how we should process process things. Not
that [ __ ] yourself is good, but the optimal experience is to process from the gut up rather
than the head down because we stuff into the body and then wonder why we feel disease or diseased in
this process. How did you guys figure out together what this was like for the two of you and how to
empower it to evolve within you and your work? It’s really interesting that you talk about the
gut because I realized uh after a little while when I started doing the healing work and and
realized that I’m in my head and I need to go to the heart and there’s a loop all I realized that
I was actually living from my gut all my life. I just didn’t listen.
Mhm. I had like this chronic almost chronic pain in
my gut because I I was at the wrong place for 30 years. realizing this when I look back now is
kind of sad but it’s was good as well because it’s training right it it’s you know this pardon
me for the interruption that don’t be harsh on yourself right it was all good it it served its
purpose and you are where you are as a result so everything worked out just perfect
it’s absolutely ex it’s looking back and and you
noting the signposts and the experiences and things like that that um are fun
being in this environment. I mean this this was a result of uh my upbringing, my belief systems,
my subconscious beliefs. My father uh survived the war. He came back survived four concentration
camps. So I imagine what his situation was when he started a family,
right? Introvert. So he wasn’t able to express
his feelings. So okay, big family. I was the youngest. Have fun. So this where where all
this in insecurity came from and this not being able to express my emotions and this of course in
a work situation as well. You know it in your gut that this is not right what’s happening but you
are not able to process it yet. And that was the whole study of course. So everybody gets his bag
full of uh let’s call it interesting perspectives. Mhm. But mine ended I ended up
working very hard because my father did as well and that this was his
Well, it’s a work ethic, right? You have the same work ethic where wherever you are.
Yeah. And then ending up in a burnout and with all these addictions. I went through all
of them to dampen my emotions and then at a certain point of course the lit when you start
waking up the lit explodes and then everything comes out which is good as well. an interesting
journey and then the healing started and in my case especially it had to do with starting
to do healing work myself. So that was uh everything was of course in retrospect very uh
a beautiful story afterwards when you’re in it especially the addiction drinking
like it’s not I wasn’t an alcoholic excruciating at times I mean come on let’s
get real right um and yet it takes us back into that recursive function of querying
ourselves to okay what am I missing [Music] me, the real me. That was my
I’m missing. I was always giving, giving, giving, hoping that they would see me.
Even in the music industry, I was just 19 and already how you say that? Um, uh,
19 and naive. Yeah, I did that very much. And I was singing
and then you get a, how do you say that? Contest. Contest. Yeah, I I won all the contests already
and I was cute and very slim and it was all they see me. So I was singing to be seen that didn’t
work. So doors doors closed obviously and then I started to work with a composer. I thought oh
no now maybe now they now this is my opening you know nope because that was not in my cards. It
was in my parts to step step away from all of this and then let the focus come through how
they come through now. And I don’t know what what and yet there was learning in that too.
You got to experience and embody yourself in different ways as you were elevating to the
level that you wish to ascend to or at least you were further along the path. Right? The thing
is that you knew the path existed at this point. Yeah. Which many don’t. You know, many
right now are questioning, well, why am I here? What what is going on? Why? Why? Why?
Because there’s so much confusion and chaos and yet all of these things are simply patterns
we haven’t recognized yet and or learn to adjust. [Music] But there are several phases
of conscious conscious awareness I feel. So those people and we used to be like that as
well like me being singing singing because I wanted to be recognized is um existence you know
it’s about existence be proof that I exist that’s and then you see that’s not it and then you
get into okay I have to give more and more and more and um and then no that’s not it either
because I’m not happy and and the whole universe or Uh I even at some point gave so much that
I became homeless and had that experience for a few years. Uh that was not fun. But after
exactly that was my maybe the best thing that could happen to me because I was at ground zero
and ground zero I went to nature and in nature I became so calm that the tuneins came in the the
the messages from the universe. It was not really a voice but it was sort of a voice and it helped
to yeah find my true self, the nothingness, the your natural self. This is this is what
I I believe and and would and stake my life on it. This is all natural. This is what
we’re seeking is who we truly are by design. Exactly. And these layers are are happening
that’s elevating. It’s like spyronamics, right? The co-creation wheel there. There’s all
these different aspects of self that are siloed at present that we’re attempting to say, “Okay, now
let let’s bring it down to horizontal and more I think Dehawk calls it a chaotic organizational
structure, right? Where there’s no hierarchy. It’s just tasks and everybody fits in where
they’re designed to do so.” [Music] Yeah. Yeah.
And then there’s the phase that you go through for, oh, now I know it
all. Ah, that’s there’s the spiritual ego. This is how the universe works. You know, guys, I will
tell you there’s a me telling you how it works, right?
That was funny because when you wake up from that space that you have no clue or maybe just 1%
of this incredible universe, then you better say, “I don’t know nothing at all.” And that’s the face
that we are in right now. Can’t tell you how when I my metaphysical days in the 90s, I can’t tell
you how many people I met that were supposedly the reincarnation of
interesting. Yeah. Right. Oh my god. Why, you know,
why does identity matter? So just be. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
And your identity will come through naturally when you get out of your own way.
Exactly. Try to be something.
Yeah. Plus what if everything is part of the oneness? What do you mean in a
former life I was Napoleon but the former life is simultaneously all at the same time right now.
So what if we all sort of tune into that former life Napoleon and sometimes we’ve been Hitler and
sometimes we have been a particle of I don’t know there we’re just the sum of particles. Right.
Right. And it’s all adjusting us in order to find the harmonic frequencies of the rest of
the universe so that we can fall into order. Yeah, it’s amazing, isn’t it?
It is. And to be able to talk with people as I’ve been doing over the last four,
we’re going into our fifth year now. Um, it’s just been an amazing educational experience for me.
Um, corroborative, reciprocal, elevating. um you know having a conversation with a quantbiologist
about the the notion of hydrogen being the conduit for consciousness. Wow. Interesting. And that
came through on his own from his research and understanding. And for me, I queried you know
where the the trinity came come from and and during uh an out-of- body process and facilitated
sequence. Um, I got hijacked by a guide that I met uh during the same time in in college and I was
taken to a three son system with a dozen planets around it. And the three sons took one voice
and said, “We are not only your four fathers, we’re also the forefathers of your solar system.”
And so I wanted to ask more questions to dig deeper. And Zephr says, “Nope, that’s it. You got
all you need. You’ll figure it out.” Right? Okay. So, you know, I already knew that the triple 6 was
the carbon atom and the number of men, right? So, breaking down the macro, the three into the micro,
which would be proton, electron, and neutron, all the elements in the periodic table fit with
the exception of hydrogen. So is there a missing link in hydrogen that that provides that tertiary
framework that’s in the rest a little differently? So there’s a connection to and through the sun’s
hydrogen powers the sun. It’s the most plentiful gas in the universe. What else it do? It’s the
bonding agent for a DNA helix. Okay. Bingo. Yeah.
Yeah. So all these things are there. Right? It’s just connecting the dots that we’ve
been oblivious to for a while because we didn’t have the technology or science to dig that
deep or or the intellectual understanding to have the queries. I mean, for me, I just still
feel like a kid asking dumb questions, right? But they’re not so dumb because they’re so simple.
Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Well, it’s about it’s about letting
go of a lot of concepts. That’s what we have been realizing because we’ve been bombarded
with concepts that you to believe in which is like did you did you did you experience it?
Did you did you check it? Did you check love is you check for understanding right?
Yeah. that some basic questions like what is love or uh you know what is existence of
or so ask the right questions and then you get the right answers and otherwise you’re just stuck
in concepts you know and that’s these are all years of filters of not seeing the the real truth
and that’s uh it’s a super interesting process and you get more empty and less knowledgeable at
the same time it’s like my my at least that’s my experience and I I think a lot of people
experience this that my memory is going. You know, it’s like uh very basic things just
being erased and and by that process being more and more a channel of I don’t have a clue
what I’m saying like this this I probably will not remember what I said during this whole
you make perfect sense to me because you’re truly this is how you step into the now. Exactly. Yeah.
Right. Even LA Sue said you know if you’re stuck in the past you’re stressful. If you’re in
the future, you’re stressed, right? When you’re in the present, there’s no stress there.
There’s just simply the being and the willingness to step into that moment without attachment to
outcome. Now, that doesn’t mean you don’t plan and strategize, right? Because there’s all this
curiosity that’s still there is, okay, what what can I do? Who can I be? What can I do with this?
what where can my gift fit best to have that reciprocal uh activity right because as we give we
also ought to be receiving most difficult thing to do is to accept that reception yeah receiving is
the biggest like oh no I don’t deserve this right especially for people that are in the
light work field or energy or whatever It’s like receiving is the if you really get that
one then then you’re nearly there I guess because it’s what giving you know it’s like
saving the world and stuff like that or and how often do people actually extend themselves
to help somebody right this is the one thing that I learned in the aerospace industry at 26 years
old I was in charge of $7 million a month desk 800 part numbers for commercial spares And I was
the youngest person in the department. I I’d um gone through those hoops, right?
And I noticed that others around me, 35 person department, people were beating
each other up to try and get the job done, right? Threatening um go to your supervisor
if you don’t do whatever, you know, and being a material. We had to move things. That was our
responsibility. and I just had this Midwestern, hey, how can I help you do your job while we’re
doing mine, right? What can I do for you? And tremendously successful. I was at the top of
the production list for months in a row. And then they finally came to me and said, “What are
you doing?” I just I’m just treating people like I’d like to be treated.
Wow. Yeah. And several years later, they instituted
interpersonal skills classes because I pushed for it and ended up being shoved aside because
of it because I was a disruptor, you know. Yeah.
They were not. That was my first experience of corp corporate
culture and what not to do, right? If you want to fit in, but it wasn’t about fitting in for me.
It was about doing the right thing and being in integrity with myself.
Beautiful. Yeah. Me, too. That’s how you learn.
Yeah. And that just filters through everything, right? It’s how we interact with each other when
we have that choice of what to say or do and we pause and reflect before the activity, whatever
that may be. And like with you, um, the the tuning in for the toning to come out, right? Yeah,
tuning in for the tune to come out. Um, this is that tuning of the body.
Your body is your instrument and your voice is that communication that you’re
making it a very deep soul reflective level and you can feel it and sense it. You’ve got the
proof by the reflections from your audiences. Yeah.
I’m very curious what you sensed Um, I don’t know that I can put words to
it. I just recognize the connection that you have and how you express it in those ways.
Now, I’m a little prejudice. I was looking for places to play in it. I am, you know, I’ve got
a 10piece drum kit in our formal dining room, right? So, I’d like to express myself um much
differently. And, you know, my wife and I are both percussionists in that way. Her music
is a lot more beautiful because I can’t play, you know, all the different notes on the drums,
although I try. um that kind of expression, you know, it’s that jazzy you fusion um whatever
happens and you know for a decade and a half I I played with some guys that that’s all we
do. We just pick a place and play to it. Yeah.
And and not know what was going to come out. Yeah. And so hearing that, that’s where I went
with it. It’s like, oh my gosh, I would love to be inside this space and participating.
We will one day we go to Sedona and we will the in the the invitation of this album is not
to approach it as music. So that would be the invitation for the next time for you to listen and
to close your eyes and to go inward and see what happens. Because there’s two of us. There’s an
energy captured in the album as well, which makes the basin and feminine dance that
makes it so perfect. Thank you. Yeah, it’s a real big field of different
frequencies through sound and energy. And what will it do with people? That’s the invitation.
Sure. But we are we have a a future. There’s no
plan, but there’s something that wants to move uh through us and that is to
do this live with musicians like yourself to see what happens if we Yeah,
I would love that. That would outside place with beautiful lights and and a beautiful audience
who’s ready to receive and each concert will be different because we never know what will come.
Oh, experienced that, you know, with the guys I was playing with for years.
You never knew what was going to happen. Some days were better than others,
of course. But this is even beyond improvisation. Yeah, it’s impro.
Yeah, it’s in not improvisation. Yeah, it’s beyond
it’s beyond because improvisation is still I know how to play. I know this
rhythm and I go with rhythm and this is at least at least that’s how we experienced it.
This goes beyond that because she didn’t really Well, it’s not a patterned response. It It’s a
It’s just an opening. The first track was actually an error in
the in the studio. There was a test tone out of nowhere and the technical guys were like,
“Shit, where’s it coming from? This should should not supposed to happen. Can we shut it down?
Where’s it coming from?” And I said, “Wait, we we would we said that we would use everything
and embrace everything.” This and the universe says, “Okay, let’s start with this one.”
Recorded right now. And I was standing behind the microphone and the melody that you hear
was was uh recorded in one take. Use the test and it has nothing to
One take wonders, right? And because we invited professional strings as well
who are used to playing by notes and they they arrived and okay where where
are the notes there are no notes right this is um my wife and I because she’s
classically trained you know and it’s the classical training is so precise each note each
inflection it it goes with what the piece is supposed to represent. So that kind of training
often makes it more challenging to let go and jam very difficult
because you’re used to having that structure and the few times that we have found
space to do so has been absolutely profound. Oh wow. I can imagine.
And a bit scary. Uhhuh. Right. Yeah. Our guitarist was also like
uh what do you mean just play just play? So he gave him a session so the ego would be out of
the way and then the most beautiful sounds ever came. It’s a six uh six track. Um, and you know
if you especially when I would love to play with you and your wife and sing with you and see what
happens because what if something else will take over her hands and let her play piano like she
can never believe. Then that’s when the magic starts. Absolutely.
Already out there. Well, you mentioned earlier about, you
know, all the different past lives and whatever that we may have or not had. um
being able to open yourself up and play into uh when I was first learning how to play drums, I
I bought two sets, put them in my dorm room. One of the sets belonged to a friend of mine’s uncle
who’d passed away. And my first real challenge was playing along with Fly by Night. And I loved
that album. And there was a piece that I just could not The kit that I had at the time was nine
piece. I had a 20-in bases of plural. And so the um in process I I was having trouble and I finally
I just paused for a moment. I said the guy’s name was David Star and I said, “Dave, man, if you can
hear me, if you love these things as much as I do, give me a hand here. Help me out.” And then it was
weird. I felt this almost like an egg breaking on the top of my head and this fluid flowing through
me. And I, this was 1975, so I put the the needle back on the album and nailed it. And so from that
time forward, few years later, I’m married. The drums are in the room upstairs above our bedroom.
And I’m at work. I was meat cutting at the time. I get a phone call. My wife is just hysterical.
She goes, “She drums. Shoot your drums.” I said, “What about them?” She goes, “I heard them.”
And I said, “Well, that’s Dave just trying to tell you he’s there not to be afraid, right?”
Cuz it was very melodic and it didn’t work. So those kinds of things when they happen, some
can embrace it and be okay with it and some not yet
pull back and it’s like, “Ah, I can’t deal with this.” That’s fine
because that unknown factor is uncomfortable still.
Yeah. Whatever fears are in place. Yeah.
The unknown. And that’s why the session comes to place
because when he creates a high frequency field that lessens without doing anything. It’s
not the person are trying not to be fearful. No, they’re just being and the energies
dissolve it. Is that good English? Yeah. sort of because when you put light
in a dark room, there’s light. Mhm.
That’s basically what happens and the dark is still there.
Uhhuh. And it’s welcome. And it’s very welcome.
Contrast. Yeah. That there in there that is back to the recursive function, right? The
paradox of holding it without distinction. And so there’s that unity frequency for lack
of a better. Haven’t really called it that yet. That’s a very good name, actually.
Yeah, I love that.
Can we use that as a name? I’ve heard our name. By all means, I don’t own anything. It
just comes out my mouth, right? Who cares? Yeah. Really beautiful.
Yeah. Yeah. That’s interesting. So this unity frequency that
we wish to tap into and share is what is bringing us all to a new level or new living awareness in
this new normal as a result of having gone through COVID and ascending from it which draws everybody
else. And ultimately you know it just makes sense. Where are we going to go? Who are we going to
be? What are we going to do? We got to figure out boundaries or illusions, right? We’re on one
planet. We breathe one air. We have one water. U we’re in one, you know, solar system. It just
makes sense that we would ascend to that order, if you will. U over time, right? And it because
we have that capacity of free will and using it in contrary ways, there’s still this momentum that
has to be built in in order for that energy to begin to um I don’t know. I started to say funnel
into and I’m not sure that that’s really what it does. It expands out of because this consciousness
we are the earth. We all the the cells in our body come from the materials from our planet right from
our mother. So we are her children literally. How do we learn how to respect our mother? We haven’t.
That’s part of the process. We respect mother. We respect father. We recognize like you two and
and my wife and I were learn how to blend the masculine and feminine because we each carry both.
And then how does that dance reveal itself in the best ways possible? And how attentive can we
be to that and get out of our own way in the process? [Music] How do you find that? What what
advice could can you give to others? I mean both of you you’ve had this wonderful expressive you
you can articulate it extremely well at a very sensory level. H how could what might others
benefit from your insight and wisdom? Well, shall I start this time? Please do because uh it
just just popped up when you were talking. This getting out of the way is the whole journey
at least for me. I’m I’m speaking for me for me, but I think we recognize this both because
like as I said, I started off in the advertising business. First inflate what’s in the way as to
an an amount that’s like it didn’t fit in the room and then deflate and then realize that there’s
uh not even a you? If you start looking for you, then where is you? You know, if you really go
really deep down inside of you, then where is the you? Maybe you’re just a hollow vessel that’s
just allowing it to to go through you and just and you’re just the observer of the experience. And
this is this is the journey for me and it’s this is about the the the biggest thing for the the
whole wakeup story. And this is how I teach the the way to work with healing frequencies as well.
Mhm. There it’s available. There’s nothing to it. You
don’t have to do any difficult things. It’s just there. just get out of the way and the thoughts
come simply from your observance. Exactly. Right. It’s a natural flow of that energy. So
that’s uh and that’s super scary sometimes. But if you go through another layer, it’s
like oh enlightenment is for me this this journey to let go of everything. You know my
one of my teachers said the spiritual way is throw everything away. Yes.
Just okay. not collect a new. So would that be endarkenment?
Sorry. Enarkenment. Yeah. As well. Yeah. No, but this is if
you don’t embrace the dark, good luck going to the light
because that’s that’s of course Yeah. And don’t judge it, right? We have
this tendency to really be self-inflicting and that’s not loving. What really helps for
me is is uh sometimes saying to myself if I if my mind takes over, I am source energy. How would
source energy look at the dark? There’s darkness. Hey, there’s darkness. Okay. Hey, there’s
light. Hey, there’s a feeling. Hey, there’s a thought. And then you immediately become
the observer of it. And then you can choose to go deeper or sometimes not. And sometimes just
sure acknowledge that it’s there. And if it if it stirs up a certain emotion, you best stay with the
emotion. It’s like with clouds. There’s a cloud. Do you want to push the cloud away or do you
just see there’s a cloud and before you know it, the cloud or the mist or the whatever is gone?
And that’s you can play with your psychic gifts and see if you can do some cloud busting.
Yeah. We tried. It’s funny. Especially with the trails. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s funny. Everything is possible. And
And as you say, play with it. It’s to play. We should play more as a child because we make it
so serious. Oh, there’s an emotion. So what? Yeah. Wasn’t there a guy that said, “Be ye as
little children.” Right. And we still don’t get it. We’re We’re too busy adulting.
Oh my gosh. Stop doing that. Yeah. Yeah. Especially asbody. Yeah.
Oh, yeah. You know, if you want about the darkness, just look around you. All right. Yes.
We have a lot of light on the planet, but during, you know, when the sun’s behind us, look out into
the cosmos. There’s more darkness than light. And so, in that, you know, the nothingness, one of the
things, and I’ve heard this from several sources. I’m going to u jump into outer space and uh
interdimensional or intradimensional beings and uh they basically said hey guys you know
you don’t understand nothingness this is where we get everything from.
Exactly. That’s what I’ve been saying as well. Yeah.
Because in this everything it’s a ubiquitous truth in consciousness. So
it’s going to reveal itself when you’re ready. Exactly. Yeah, that somebody asked me, “Oh, uh,
I want to I work with energy and and I sing and I want to and I want to do this as well.
I want to do this do this healing focals.” How do you do that? I don’t do anything. How can
I teach someone to do healing frequencies through sound? Not. But I we can teach you to go out of
the way and see what happens. But maybe it’s not sound. Maybe it’s something else. Exactly. Right.
And and you know, for my a transformational coach for 20 years and still do it occasionally, I love
it because I asked those questions. It’s like, okay, so you’re making a shift and you don’t
have to eliminate all the skill sets that you’ve acquired, right? Because they were
purposeful. It’s just repurposing them now to something new or different that edifies
your beingness rather than uses it for some other’s purpose and being able to, you know,
assess the skill sets and have people dive. I got a 13page survey that I use that it’s just
it’s probably ridiculous, but it it gets into that those deep areas of self-reflection, right?
And being able to to look at, okay, here I am. What do I truly what’s my dream? Who do I see
myself as potentially being? And then how can we set up an action plan that that gives you
at least a stepbystep activity or flow to open yourself up to the environments that can provide
that. There’s really no pat answers to it. It’s an individual journey for each. However, the process
is always the same. Mhm. And it changes because I teach the people that that visit my uh practice so
to say or the training what wants to come through today and you cannot make a business around
it. So that’s quite a challenging but actually uh so will you make another album? I don’t know.
I don’t know if there’s album if it wants to come through it will but I will not pinpoint
myself or put myself in a jail that I have to create new albums maybe
got to produce got to produce get the whip out you know
yeah it becomes an industry you know well that’s what you experience in advertising
right got to produce got to produce got to produce yeah that’s a good training trust me
no you get that 35 years of training
getting out of your system. It’s It’s really uh challenging sometimes, but
Well, I would offer it’s not really out of your system because it provides you
the discipline to do what you do now. Yeah. But in a totally different way.
Absolutely. And not with uh the burnout the chances
of a burnout and but the other way around. Right. Well, it’s the internal
discipline, not necessarily the external, right? It’s the the the query of self and then
paying attention and doing what comes right. That’s where the the being converts into doing.
Horrible words. Imagine like this is like this is the buzz word in advertising deadlines. I mean
realize what it does to your system. The stress the fullon stress right working on this. So
it’s a competitive language as opposed to the collaborative rather than deadlines. How about
lifelines? Lifelines. Oh wow. Yeah, fun lines or musicians as well, they
have a deadline because there’s a release date. We said to each other, yeah, if we do we have a
release date, no, we see how it goes in the flow and if it’s ready to release, we release it,
right? Yeah. And that’s a different way of approaching
but uh it’s very important that you and the nice thing is this the shelf life on the process and
the information is there’s there’s no end date. Exactly. It’s wonderful. You two
have just been lovely. I so warm, kind, compassionate and caring. Um, it comes
through in your beingness. It comes through in your music together. Um, and I know that
that effect has to ripple through the thought atmosphere in some magnificent ways. And I’m
looking forward to witnessing those further. Wonderful. Thank you so much. It was an
amazing and uh I think we could talk for hours and we really need to go to your place
to make music and go to the power spots and make some plans.
Yeah. That might come true.
That may come true. Yep. Be wonderful.
We’ll look forward to that and anticipate the possibility. Absolutely.
We allow the Yes, we allow the possibility. Yes.
Absolutely. Oh, thanks so much for being with us and uh wow um wonderful.
Thank you. So, namaste and in lak’ech and thanks for sticking with us for this episode of
One World in a New World. Remember, please like, subscribe, share, and visit planetarycitizens.net
net and pick up your copy of Planetary Citizens: Awakening the Heart of Humanity. That’s what we’re
doing. Thank you so much. I’ll see you next time. [Music]
1 Comment
It was so wonderful to talk to you Zen! Very inspiring and uplifting! Thank you so much! 😃🥰