Join Ian Ayling, Head Groundsman at Allianz Stadium in Twickenham, as he shares his inspiring journey—from starting as a 16-year-old apprentice to leading the elite team behind one of rugby’s most iconic grounds.
In this episode of AHDB Talking Leaders, Ian discusses what leadership means in high-performance environments and how to empower people to reach their full potential.
Learn more about:
AgriLeader: https://ahdb.org.uk/agrileader
Labour Lifecycle in Agriculture: https://ahdb.org.uk/labour-life-cycle-in-agriculture
Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/TheAHDB
Like us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/TheAHDB
Follow us on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/agriculture-and-horticulture-development-board
ABOUT AHDB
AHDB is a statutory levy board. Our purpose is to be a critical enabler, to positively influence outcomes, allowing farmers, growers and others in the supply chain to be competitive, successful and share good practice. We equip levy payers with easy to use products, tools and services to help them make informed decisions and improve business performance. Established in 2008 and classified as a Non-Departmental Public Body, AHDB supports the following industries: meat and livestock (Beef, Lamb and Pork) in England; Dairy in Great Britain; and Cereals and Oilseeds in the UK. For further information visit www.ahdb.org.uk
so good morning all it’s a really welcome this special live edition of talking leaders um from the iconic Aliant Stadium here in Twickenham the home of England rugby um where we’re we’re really pleased to have the grounds manager Ian Ailing and a bit of a cameo position from Martin May how do I pronounce your name sorry Mumm who’s head groundsman over at got many another name yeah that’s what confusing me so official name yeah What a backdrop to today’s conversation leading from the ground up fantastic and Martin why we love having guys like you on is that um farming farming agriculture in the UK is is great sometimes it’s a bit a bit um insular and what these guys at the HDB are very good is finding people like yourself leaders that we can all learn from um and when we turned up on on site yesterday you were so modest because you were saying “Oh farmers know far more than me.” And we were talking about it in in the host last night weren’t we that what you guys do it’s such a complex job it’s so high pressured you got millions of people watching you and if you if you um drop drop the proverbial lawn mower um it it’s it’s all going to go and that’s why we’re so keen to get the likes of you on to find it so we can learn from you yeah it’s just that you know you you see farmers staying down the troubles they go through they’re going through troubles now with the weather the way it is you know we’re lucky we can turn the water on irrigate the pitch they you know they can but only certain farms can I would imagine so because of the shortage of water through the reservoirs as well yeah um but you know we can switch the water on we can switch the water on anytime any you know any time of the day um you know during the winter we can switch the heating on to to warm the pitch up yeah so we got those controls we can control the controller balls yeah yeah okay farmers don’t have that luxury i would imagine I you know I know nothing about farming yeah um as I said yesterday when a farmer’s watering their crops I know it’s going to be sunny that’s when I’m on holiday i know it’s going to be a gorgeous day i know when they’re going to be fertilizing i know it’s going to be raining so that’s when I when I drive down a road and see that happening I do look out for that and what they’re doing at a certain time and you you made this great comment last night last night Martin um Ian was saying how we all all all of you used to watch country file back back in the back in the day because it was the last what was it last five minutes as to what the weather was going to do but now we’ve all got a gazillion apps and Martin what’s your connection with with Ian so um I’ve done sports pitch m since since I left left school um uh and then back 10 years ago I’ve been here now and uh Ian introduced me to the the former head craftsman Keith Keith Kent and we did an outreach outreach to Georgia to look at some sports pictures there part of the 2015 World Cup okay so they were linked Kent were linked with Georgia okay wow uh so the under 20s World Cup coming up so we had several trips there and then on the back of that uh was invited back uh by Ian and Keith to come and help out in the Rugby World Cup which was 2015 uh and then since then um just been part of the team and um uh coming in match days before match days whenever needed really um thoroughly enjoy it he’s he’s a legend of our you know of our Saturday team you know when I say I say to people I’ve got a Saturday lad don’t expect a little 16 17 year old I say no this one’s 53 but he hasn’t missed I like tug of war but since he he joined us in the quarterfinals of the World Cup 2015 and ever since he’s only missed one game he’s only missed one game and then that was a county game or national cup I’m a so he’s only missed one game so that’s how dedicated this man is to our team and we’ve progressed so we started with Martin as as our Saturday lad and now there is another six Saturday lads to help us on a match day on an international match day on the big event days where we need to come in after the England and the opposition train on the on the day before an international and we do a semi prep that evening and on the on the international morning we do a full prep another full prep um and these lads are beneficial they help us you know we’re mowing a pitch three times or three times in that same in that day wow and and farmers farmers love to know my farm is this big how big is your farm how many stock have you got talk Twickerum this what size of it what capacity what how many in in your team what talk us and talk us through the year so Twickerum is an 82,000 seated stadium it got made up to 82,000 in 2008 when it was the old South Stand was up so up from 75 to 82 it’s 12 acre site um it was bought in 1905 for £5,000 surrounded by fields surrounded by fields and this was a cabbage patch this was all a lot so all this area was a lotments in 1905 so England were looking for an area to play all their international games so they found this plot of land what we’re standing on now 1905 in 1907 they played their first full international championship against Wales or Scotland one or the other so from there on then on they built sand after stand and to the present day this is what you’ve got now so yeah this pitch yeah it all used to be a lot so it’s a 12 acre site plus we got the two car parks down at Rosebine that we look after so anything green and growing we look after not the seats nothing to do with the seat but anything green and grow okay so yeah when I joined in 1998 there was only one of me but we had 12 grounds who looked after the whole site yeah um but there was only one groundsman and they used to come and help me when they came forward chopster then in 2000 in 99 2000 went up to two then Keith took us up to three so from then onwards up until 2019 or 2020 there’s only been three of us so from 2020 slowly built our team so we’ve got a full-time team now five so still looking after all the site and um but this is the main priority the pitch comes first with anything that we do um and so yeah so as I said from 2015 onwards we had Martin and we grew out of our Saturday team to so there’s 12 of us work on an international day yeah okay 12 to 13 people okay and and that pitch how old is that pitch what’s what’s the the current pitch you see there now was redeveloped in 2012 okay um we had we knew we was getting the World Cup in 2015 if you like 2015 so our current pitch was from two uh we got the go ahead in 2012 the previous pitch before that was 1999 2000 um the the pitch before that hadn’t been touched since 1963 had an old farm drain going down the middle and we had a 10 m herring bone clay to drain your system of course and they only used to top dress the wings back in before I came they only used top dress the wings so the p every weekend and you try and get the best out of them but we do have a laugh and a crack and we do have a beer you know we do have a beer at the end of the day we have a beer and um and just reflect on what we’re doing and what we don’t think those points are so valid that trust them together is something I always say that if you trust people it brings people together and then we spend so many hours at work um we need to have some fun we’ve got to enjoy it you’ve got to and and I must admit from being here the last few days you can really sense that family family feel and that that that people bringing people in together oh yeah there is going to be days where someone’s not on form yeah yeah yeah and you just got to deal with that the best best thing I do with people who are not on form just leave them alone just leave them alone just let them get them doing what they got to do they’ll still do the job but they got there’s something going on bit of space and just leave them going on and they they come back and then we have the banter at the end of the day um but the main priority is making sure this is fit on a Saturday it used to be 3:00 it could be any time now on a Saturday at 3:00 on a Saturday make sure the stripes are dark and dark and light and dark and the white lines are white you know end of the day but that’s what you know the time on a Saturday or a Sunday whenever the match is going to be never moves you know so you just got whatever you got to do you just got to hit that mark yeah and that that’s really important because there’s got to be some pressure there at least high performance you’ve got the teams that have got to do their bit but you’ve got to present prepare a service for them to be able to do um do their job which can be huge amounts of pressure i think you’ve alluded to it already but keeping that team on the full gun going on their aame or being at the A game when they they are and keeping them mentally fresh we talk a lot now particularly in agriculture and I don’t think there’s a lot of challenges with with mental health there is my role call it mental fitness but I think it goes up and down how do you other than giving space how do you make sure that everyone in the group is on their aame when you need them to be i think majority of the time we do ask each other how each everybody is and I think my wife told me said something to me a couple of years ago um and you you can ask you how are you but you reiterate how are you and you have to ask that question two or three times to get the honest answer out of someone and um if they’re not having a good day I’ll say do you want to have a chat and if they don’t have a chat you know vice versa but you just got to play that we do mental health is is a big issue and you know when it comes to an international match and you say to the lads “Lads it’s out of my control france aren’t turning up until 4:00 on Friday we can’t start work until 5:00 i know you want to get home but today you just can’t do it and I will find you time and then the week after to give you that time back and stuff like that it’s the balancing game of um looking after it’s always going to be like I think the world is like that now it’s not 9 to5 it’s not 9 to5 you’ve got to understand today leadership skills it’s it’s a bit of a buzzy buzzy phrase but you can’t go to college university can’t go online to learn um how how to I’m not sure I quite like the word um leader you’re you guys don’t come across as leaders but you you are responsible and you’ve got to get the the best out of your guys but it’s it’s almost like empathy they they want to to do the best they can what’s that magic dust you think of of being of being a leader Martin go I think it’s being uh a people person really uh which he very much is um and it brings up this culture we’re all quite a tight tightnit group here i can see that um so everyone’s looking after each other yeah um so yeah even if someone else doesn’t recognize that someone’s having a a bad time someone else will but really we’re all see helping each other out socially we we we do a lot together can I imagine an assumption that you’ve learned this through through sports yeah because because there’s a there’s a view that we’ve we’ve all got to be involved in community sports because if we got the younger generation getting off their phones and actually get involved in say rugby or football net or whatever that communication that then then starts and then they then then take that to the work space or to college yeah i think I think yeah sport is a is a great environment to work in and particularly rugby is is quite a unique um environment to be in um yeah people seem to look out for each other and people are very approachable on a on a on a on a level everyone’s on that that level um I only speak for rugby people more involved in rugby um but as I say yeah everyone’s recognizes everyone’s strength in here so So can I set you set you an example a new farm manager comes into a farm and he’s got a half a dozen guys and three four guys that come in at in the summer new farm manager he doesn’t know the lay of the land these guys are there’s a dad that works with a son what would be your advice as to how he can get on side with them but but not not be their friends so so much but gain their respect from them and get the best from them without without turning into dictator what would your advice be Mar uh the way I approach it is it’s going slightly not go rush in and change too many things find out about their personalities families how they tick really um and give them chances if if someone wants to progress a little bit give them give them a bit more responsibility um and start just help people grow really yeah but take it slowly i love that take it slowly don’t go and sort of change the world take it slowly because the way I’d approach that as well is is work with them it’s easy for me me to say you go and do that your team go and do that but if they just see the person who’s leading that team doing the same job as them and showing them physically how it’s done and taking them however long it takes you know sometimes a farmer hands under pressure to get the the crops priced whatever it like and extremely under pressure but I’ve always been in the mix of it i’ve never stood back whatever I tell those boys to do I do with them you know I think that’s my way of dealing situation yeah most of the jobs and I can quite happily now in this new role that I’m in now I could quite happily say right you don’t do that because I’ve done it before i I know what you’ve got to do and not not going to tell them to do something completely stupid that I haven’t done and I’ll do with them in that situation but most jobs here I’ve done and I I expect the boys to go on and do those kind of jobs which I’ve done already yeah m I love what you said about to give them that opportunity to progress to challenge them look after them but challenge them yeah i think I think um not only bounce but on a general life lesson and employees lesson i was thinking you know if you can invest in the people uh and get people enjoying their work then they’re just going to get so much yeah more out of them and a and a better product yeah that goes I think not only crowdsmanship farms but as a w if you make people grow and and push them then you get happy workplace i think you have to push people out you have to try and push them out of their comfort zone to try and get their best best qualities out um I’m really out of my comfort zone literally out of my comfort zone you said this earlier you’re so right well that’s where the magic happens if you’re gifted on the edge okay yeah it’s it’s not your normal dayto day is understanding that and getting the best out of those those guys that are behind us but you’ve got to keep that you’ve got to step out need to such you said earlier you’re no good at tug of war look what you did yes yes it’s amazing what you can do when you put him on it you know that’s why I I encourage there’s a job we do when you’re cutting the pitch you have to go along the strings try and keep it straight it’s a It’s a hard job to do especially when you got the nap going keep talking just a minute and I used to do that all the time all the time all the time i was doing the strings and doing that but now I’m just letting the lads do it because they’ve got to learn because I’m not more more so I’m not on the tools so much as I was two or three years ago so I need to release let go and let and trust them that they’re going to do exactly the same job so it’s just it’s just letting go it’s very hard to let go of a job that you’ve physically been doing yeah yeah yeah all the time because there’s only be one or two or three of you and you have to do every single job around it but now there’s we got more son it’s letting go and let them take control of what they’re they because they’ve got to pass it on to the next generation and um and I I do it with the young young brown stars here on the match that’s a perfect example out there you know James is out there you know before his exams uh could you just explain who James is james is Mark’s son my son um his nickname’s Wednesday because you always turn up on a Wednesday i don’t I don’t see how he’s called Wednesday but um we give all our Saturday lads nicknames i don’t know why but none of us have got nicknames anyway oh I think you have yeah yeah but um yeah the ones I don’t know about but to get him through his exams I said “Right before the Italy game six nations you got six weeks and I’m going to put you on strings every single Wednesday whatever machine you’re doing just to get your confidence and build your stature up and give you something to look forward to on a Wednesday when he turns up.” And he just took it he took to it he didn’t shy back he didn’t say no he just done it and I was asking Mark probably three or four weeks in how was he doing at school and his his school level was going up and that because he was focused on what he was doing here i told him to focus on school and um because you know you need school you know kids just don’t want to go to school sometimes but he was here he’s doing a great job and on the Italy game I said right you’re doing the strings and wow it’s a big responsibility because if you get a crooked line out there especially going crossways the camera’s up there everybody sees it you know when I or Jim Mark out pitch and I’ve done a crooked one I think oh my god um and you can see it and you can see it you can see everything that nobody else can see you can see that little bit of grass which is out of place but nobody else can see it but I can see it or Jim can see it can see it but it’s big responsibility for him and he had that responsibility to do it and he’s doing it he’s doing it now every time he turns up yeah yeah um what time does he leave um the south coast to get up here uh about court plus 5 that that that dedication it’s it’s just a really good example which it’s my son but in terms of your leadership and the family that you brought brought him into it’s giving it’s trusting someone to have a go it’s trusting someone that they are going to make a mistake and they’re going to learn from it but it’s how you bring bring people with you on journey and it’s a testament to so the downside of only having one piece of brass we got the the patch out there But when you you got to trust someone to sit on the tractor during the season and to do a job on the tractor to do to do that job you’ve only got that bit of the grass to practice on okay when I grew up I had a sports field to practice on every single pitch but when you’re here you try and teach a young lad to do that kind of job you just got to watch them and just make sure you know if it goes wrong it goes wrong there’s nothing you can do about it but you have to learn quickly when you’re dealing with a million pound pitch oh my god so so that basic I want to set you you to a challenge let’s use that analogy again of uh this farm manager he’s been in six months uh a year he’s got on top of of off the farm he’s got the the the team on board but he reckons you can see that the the farm and the team can do more that’s more productivity to have what how would you challenge him to get more out of that team and it’s not like looking at that that team as a piece of machinery and turning up to to to 11 and so we’ve already talked about getting them on on board now you want to take to the next the next stage what would you what would you suggest to our audience how do you get more out of a team uh again goes back to the giving people to own ownership of the job a little bit get them interested invested invested a lot um invest in them really because I think once they show that you’re you’re giving them something they’re going to they’re going to give you back twice from and that’s what that’s kind of what happens here because um because Ian and Jim give especially the young lads that responsibility they can’t wait to get and they want to they want to do their best job and they they don’t want to let you down so they they they switch on and create environment like delegation still watching over them and and being there uh and we all we all make mistakes you know and that’s that’s the beauty of it might make a little mistake but they’re not they’re invested over it it’s encourage you know that mood I mean sometimes the sometimes the pressure on the match day has got to me I put my hands up and I if somebody does something wrong I do raise my voice a little bit but sometimes in my world the shock treatment kind of like works in that sense because they know they won’t if they do it again then I’ll calm down a bit but if if they keep doing Yeah so just take them until it just say you know just think just think about what you’re doing is is it the expression that if you make a mistake but it’s above the water line you you’ve learned yes and and you’ll never do it again yes but you’ve learned yeah and if you you know if you do it twice and then you know you you you up for a for a rollin but um yeah it doesn’t seem to happen twice because people learn quickly and it’s done it’s done the best way in a good way uh and then and then two minutes later it’s for gone yeah on to the next job yeah um and having a beer then it but that’s that’s that’s the environment that’s been created here really it’s with that environment I’m always at the end of the day I will take them to one side shake around say you’ve done a very good job and I don’t know Mark many farmers who’ actually would actually be proud hell be proud enough to do that with their teeth it it’s there are some great great fathers that probably do that but no I think that culture of positivity is set and I’ve I’ve experienced it and my son is is is amazing because it is you’re you’re thanking you’re giving um praise for doing something really well you also give some really good feedback and that comes from everybody just little pointers do this do that and and and nothing’s ever a silly question it’s it’s it’s and that’s a growth a growth mindset that’s how He prescribed and prescribed yeah and my predecessor taught me something that he done naturally at the end of the day you’re sitting at home and a text message comes through he says “Ian Andy you done a fantastic job today keep it up see you tomorrow morning.” Wow so I’ve literally I’m doing that now with the team this we got our own little WhatsApp group and every Saturday night I just said “Chavs well done today.” Pulled it out of the bag congratulations the picture looks amazing on TV pat yourself on your back on the on the back yeah i And and again I’d encourage farmers to to to do that just simple little things simple little things yeah it goes it goes a massive amount of way it’s really hard because farmers high pressure you know it’s their it’s their living so when the pressure is on that’s when I suppose it’s more difficult to to do then i think if you can manage it when you know high pressure times then then there goes a long way a really good dairy farmer that we know up in Cheshire the Haltons and they will always um they toast the cows on a Friday night which basically they invite the whole team into their house and they have a beer at the end of day cows on TikToks and Karen Carol won’t mind us saying and she’ll listening she’s got um that they also employ a masseuse thank you because because because like you guys you walk a zillion million steps a day it’s very physical in heat like we are today but one day a week they there’s a massage session sports massage sess yeah sports massage session um but for the person in the team that needs it the most we’ll get we’ll get that it just just helps i’m glad you said this because we’ve been jokingly but talking to our health and safety advisor here and I said we know we’re doing 25,000 steps a day we need to get our legs massage so I’m just going to take this piece of video going by the AHV team need guys what about um recruitment we we talked about um uh having the team and motivating them and we’re learning from you what do you what do you look for what what would you what would your advice be to to a younger individual who’s looking to come into farming but it’s bit like you’re a bit anxious and standing in front of this this hot m and they’re they’re anxious about interviews about because they’re they’re worried that they’re not going to be um regarded or or or looked at what would be your advice so it’s a two-stage question to the younger individuals who want to get into farming or onto this sector what would your advice be to them and likewise for for employers what would your advice be as to who who you’d be looking for bas um yeah it is a big problem I should imagine it is in farming and is it is in grounds work was hard work social hours getting out in all weathers um but for myself just give an example south and northern I couldn’t stand being in a classroom at school I could stand being in a in an office work in an office so being outside doing something physical was great for me but I think uh I think if you’re willing to work hard put a smile on your face um and and willing to work with people that that goes a long long way and I think can’t go too far off simple by smile and just Yeah every day is going to be great but you know tomorrow’s another day and it’ll be better so um I just think if you if you had those simple um attitudes values and that goes a long way i would I wouldn’t uh look too deep into it you know just to get just to get started and see if you like it and it comes back to what we said about community sport if you’ve been doing that you you shook the hand of a gazillion umpires and and so you’re used to dealing with people so it’s that that social interaction will be will be very beneficial yes and if you’re not even um great with that with people at the moment you soon will be because you meet so many different people especially on that in sports environment meet everyone from cameramen to viewers to to players to other groundsmen so you just get a ward view of of everyone who works in the industry what about potential employees that come to you do would you take a I says would you take a punt would you see there’s a bit of a broken person here but I I could do something with this this individual yeah I think you have to give a give a chance because when I left school someone took a chance on me didn’t know what I was like so yeah you’ve got to give them a chance some people take a little longer to to flourish and um for them to start enjoying the job um you know realizing it might be something they want to do but yeah you’ve just got to stick with people i think you get a get a feeling and as already indicated it’s like an investment in in if you’re helping that person and you you in effect become the the sort of mentor you’re not you’re not going to have them for life but you’re going to have them for long periods of um of time at age 43 when I started here um Ian and the team nurtured me even old partner yeah you know I’m uncomfortable doing this but Martin was he wasn’t he was a quiet he was quiet lad and that team environment yeah he was quiet lad even though he played rugby he done silly things as a rugby player and stuff like that on the social side but working with us he was quiet at the start but 10 years on he’s just the most amazing bloke he I would have him by my side all the time it’s just amazing he’s come that far in that sense it just I say Martin go do something on the pitch and he would just go do it on a Saturday or a Friday or Saturday it’s just fantastic it’s just having it’s nurturing it’s actually nurturing people you don’t nurture somebody who’s going to be what I want them to do and be like me i just want them to be their own person but get the job done and just be themselves it is not a race people take to any job in life at their own pace some people might be a lot slow and you you do get frustrated but you can’t they will get to the end goal but you can’t push them because they will just say I’ve had enough do I’ve been pushed too much and um and then they walk out the door and don’t come back um and but yeah we got kids here on a Saturday on a Friday and Saturday who’s never done this job before and they come to me Jim and said “Is there any chance I can earn some extra pocket money and help us on a match day?” And he’s been here a year and he’s taken such an interest in the job it’s the first time he’s taken photos of what he achieved and sadly he just took photos he went around the stadium took photos of what he had done with the team and what they produced and he sent sent them to him earlier on the group chat for me that’s amazing wow wow the bit I I I’m fascinated by Mark is that these two fantastic gentlemen they’re so they’re so calm but can you imagine what it must be like on match day and you’ve got what’s the thing I just and and it’s like a three o’clock kickoff and and it is all down to you and the pressure that you guys must be under how Martin how do you roll it up well I’m I’m a very much a smaller scale queen about 14,000 capacity so we’re this is it’s an international level we’re we’re down to we’re sort of premier Premier Rugby um and then do a little bit at my local club Maidstone um but you know if you’re doing it at Maidstone doing Harley Quinn here you still want to do it well i spent spend too much time thinking about grass um and work to be honest so I have to put things in place myself to shut off shut off but you can’t but you can’t Did you see that he just did a whole 360 as he was talking just to check out everything yeah just make sure it was all neither could switch on so I that’s on that level so magnify that you know to to to hear where Ian and the lads it’s Yeah i can’t imagine uh I would have to put uh things in place to Yeah so So what’s your what’s your advice that you you put things in place bad stuff happens okay and so you we and it’s a cycle you you see it and it’s cometh arrow cometh the man yeah you know I’ve seen it on TV that you see a pitch half the pitch is green and half the pitch is yellow as a groundsman you see you know why it’s happened the spray is broken down there’s nothing you can do about it that is life at the end of the day but they they they get 3:00 they still play football they still play run um and you you can control the control of boards but when something goes wrong and you can’t fix it you just got to say and let the the people are above you let them know that something’s going wrong communication communication is the key as long as everybody knows that something has gone wrong and there’s no way of dealing with that before 3:00 on a Saturday afternoon you just have to go with it you feel crap inside yeah yeah um but you just won’t let it you try and not let that happen again you know a mower breaks down a sprayer breaks down or a rotary mower your rotary and mowing the pitch beforehand and it suddenly drops a level and you scalp it my god and it’s happened it’s happened but there’s nothing you can do you can’t grow that grass t before 3:00 you just got to go with it and um yeah I can’t say the word but it does happen that does happen okay okay but but let’s page on the positive martin what’s been the highlight of your career in doing what you do i’m going to say to you highlight being invited when it first started here to the to the World Cup the we was here from the 45 myself and um Colin is from local rugby club got great inviting from the finals the final must has to be the final really just being what was that was that a text message phone call a letter um no we so we were here invited by Ian and Keith Keith Kent who was here uh previously to help out for the quarterfinals semi-finals and got to the final it doesn’t get any any bigger than that so yeah I hope you got a picture hope you got that picture yeah we got a couple of pictures yeah but just being here and watching how it’s done and prepared for a a World Cup final you can’t um probably won’t see that again but it’s the highlight of your career oh you’re going through your memory bank oh there’s so many match there is a few you know the first European Cup final in two pound oh well then um it was done you know Northampton were playing whoever in the semiinal if Northampton won the final was going to be here so Northampton won their semi-final and Northampton played Monster here so that was a great moment because all my in-laws are from Monster so that was fantastic in the World Cup 2015 final um the peak of your career because everybody wanted to host produce a pitch for a welcome final um my daughter singing for the first time the Irish national anthem proudest moment um but yeah there’s there’s many a moment um but I don’t take this place for granted i don’t rest on my laurels because I’ve been here 28 years if I rested on my laurels and I wouldn’t be here today no but there’s also time to celebrate that’s another thing with them within farming what do they say Mark um a farmer has 56 harvests in them and when it gets to the end of harvest it’s like yeah let’s let’s as you do go go down go down the pub we must celebrate as well all all that hard work that we do in our in our roles yeah we got quite good social social side of side of it as well once uh especially in the autumn we um international we did six six nations we did a uh Italian night French night and a Scottish night so we did the different things for the drinks and and food so um yeah we we do we do celebrate it we also have a beer after we finish mowing on a on a Friday or a Saturday um so yeah we do we do make sure that we appreciate these these moments yeah yeah wow what a been a really good bit of conversation has in terms of what we’re talking about there’s so many points that you have pulled out in terms of getting the best out of people and getting the best out bringing them into a community creating a family understanding each individual and and always driving to their strengths and helping them develop and push forward and have fun because yeah for a long time gone and we spend so much time within the workplace that we can see just the pride and the the care that both of you have in your jobs role and the teams that you’re in it’s just a it’s phenomenal yeah it’s huge amount of stuff together yeah just just say a few words to the farming community what you guys have learned in doing your jobs and the teams that you’ve created just tell tell everyone within the farming community how how we should be doing it from from what you’ve learned in your career martin you get first um yeah it’s difficult one really because we’re different different pressures etc um I’ve I’ve just all farmers are hardworking i’ve got from Kent so I’ve got quite a few mates who are fruit farmers and etc so I know how hard they work um but yeah as said before all about sort of getting your head down work hard make sure you look after staff make sure you look after yourself well done so um it’s very important and um then when you do get those down times just make the most really yeah yeah exactly the same you know it’s you have to look after yourself first you know family comes first and and stuff like that the job the job is your livelihood and you see it on the TV you see it on the country far how how hard the job is as a farmer on what they can do thinking outside the box um doing different stuff to keep their livelihoods above you know above um brown water you know you know what I mean but you see it day in and day out about the farmers all you could do is do your best you can’t help the weather you can’t help what happens eventually um all you can do is when those when those crops or when those har when the crops are ready to go you boys work hard boys and girls lot of um ladies out you know I see on TV they do a fantastic job there you know we’re trying to get more women into groundsman grounds personship say that properly um but yeah we’re trying to do that as well on on our side because world cup u 20 this world cup women’s world cup on the 27th of September the pitch is going to be looked after by 15 brownish women um so we’re going to take it back steep but you know there’s It’s their turn to shine it’s their turn to shine and produce the pitch for the women’s World Cup final so um which is going to be fantastic then the next generation of young Browns persons saying “I got to get out of that habit.” But um but yeah but you know all you can do is do your best and and get them and keep going thank you and just just to wrap up we we quite often do a thing with with our guests where after three we get them to all shout out their favorite color of tractor we can’t do that with you guys so after three can you shout out your favorite type of lawn mower after three one two three ransom chis oh hello brilliant ransom what a fantastic discussion and thank you both for giving a bit of time up um to to chat to us in this iconic um Alian Stadium the home of England Rugby