Is this Tour de France a two-man battle between Tadej Pogacar, Jonas Vingegaard? | Beyond the Podium

Brent Bookwalter, Tejay van Garderen and special guest Paul Burmeister look ahead to the 2025 Tour de France, recap the Tour de Swisse and break down the Tadej Pogacar and Jonas Vingegaard showdown to come in July. #NBCSports #Cycling #BeyondThePodium #TourdeFrance
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Is this Tour de France a two-man battle between Tadej Pogacar, Jonas Vingegaard? | Beyond the Podium
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i cringe thinking about it because uh yeah there will be crashes and unfortunately I’m going to go ahead and say it but we will lose a GC guy or two in that first week we’re going to pick this one stage where we’re going to find the steepest longest climbs and we’re going to put our entire team on the front and we’re going to try to grind them down because we think that Yonas is better at the steeper sustained clims and we’re going to try to crack him now whether or not TADA can be cracked remains to be seen welcome back to Beyond the Podium the final countdown to the tour to France is here this is it we’ve had the recent dress rehearsals the final pre-race showdowns dolphin finishing up just over a week ago tour to Swiss wrapping up just last weekend today Pagachcha showing his dominance at the Dolphin beating his main rival Jonas Fingigo and a thrilling finish to the tour to Swiss yesterday with Xiao Almeida today Pagacha’s teammate also pulling off the big GC win it’s all leading up to the the big month of July the tour to France and we’re going to hash it all out here on Beyond the Podium with me to do that we’ve got TJ Vanardin and special guest on Beyond the Podium Paul Burmeister this is our full studio crew for July it’s really good to be here with you guys and I’m excited to talk some Tour to France bike racing with you good to be here with you guys i I watch you all the time uh you guys do a great job when it’s the two of you so hopefully you can be extra on your game today to make up for as you called it Brent the special guest uh QB Burmeister you always make us look good come on now me too this will be a good little warm-up i’m liking I’m liking the relaxed vibe that we got here it feels a little more uh my natural habitat than uh your your more natural habitat Paul of uh looking real sharp in the suits in the studio um but yeah TJ before we get into uh Tour to France talk you just came off the plane or just arrived back from Tour to Swiss so tell us about uh you know your past week there i think you were um Yeah you were definitely in one of the team cars you had some big rides from some of your riders definitely yesterday Harry Sweeney pulling off that real strong time trial tell us the highlights from Tour to Swiss from from your perspective big picture tour to France um but also EF your team yeah so uh full disclosure I haven’t even showered from off the plane because I’m still wearing my team uh team t-shirt here but yeah Tourist Swiss was it was an incredibly exciting race um that first stage just made everything look like it like no one knew what was going to happen uh Xiao Almeida came in as the hot favorite but he was he missed this 29man break and unfortunately so did all of my EF riders um but we ended up animating the race and we won a stage with Vinenzo Alban which was awesome but then it it just kind of shut the race down from there on because UAE was so hellbent on trying to get back every second for Almeida because he started with a three and a half minute deficit that he just shut down the race and attacked at every every opportunity that he had and he just clinched the deal in the final TT um but yeah like you said I got to give a shout out to my boy Harry Sweeney because uh man this dude like in that final TT 76 kilos but still just like throttled that time trial was in the hot seat forever finally got pipped by the last couple of riders but uh that was an impressive ride by her by my EF boy Harry Sweeney heck yeah tj when you were just saying that talking about being on the radio for Harry Sweeney being in the car I flashed back to a tour to Swiss moment from my career well I got to correct you there Brent i got to correct you he was so concerned about the weight because it was an uphill time trial that he didn’t want the extra 500 gram for the radio but the the climb was steep enough that when I heard on the uh from the intermediate time check that he was best time I just yelled out the window i just stuck my head out the window i was like “Best time sweetie.” And then like every single thing on the course I was like “You got to push right now it gets flatter in 200 m.” And like so if my voice is a little horsearo today it’s because I was yelling so hard at Harry Sweeney because he didn’t want the extra two 300 gram of carrying a radio do you think he heard you TJ do you think Do you think he actually heard you and took it in i uh I apologized to him afterwards because I said “Yeah hey I know you didn’t want to start with a radio so I hope my yelling didn’t uh didn’t mess you up.” And he’s like “No I just didn’t want it for the white mate.” I mean but uh you know that yelling it really it really got me going yeah he’s Australian if but I I loved you on the radio so I’m I’m sure Harry Sweeney appreciated those those yells and screams from the car and uh that’s old school man and ditch the electronics i love it i love it so that TJ you brought up a good point we’ll we’ll kind of sit on Tour to Swiss for a minute because it is the most recent it did just happen jao no stranger to finding success at that race but the way he did it was was impressive being on the back foot after that stage one goes to show we talk about these G GC riders needing to be vigilant needing to be heads up and this was one of those stage ones where all of a sudden the race sort of got flipped on its head in terms of a traditional GC script where you maybe would have thought the GC riders were going to wait for the final climbs coming later in the race but looking at the final margin of victory that Xiaawa had after yesterday coming from behind just grabbing the victory on the last day it doesn’t paint the whole picture of how strong he was because he also clawed back those few minutes that you described all through the race so once again like we talk about it time and time again Paul we talk about it in the studio the the dominance the depth of this UAE team it’s not just their superstar favorite legendary today Pagotcha it’s these guys underneath him ja made a fourth overall at the tour last year and once again he’s showing up has his chance at tour to Swiss makes him a pretty solid mistake the first day comes from behind and uh yeah showing that he is clearly ready to ride the tour on any other team he’d be the guy riding GC and today Pagotcha’s got him by his side for the race uh yeah the the depth of this UAE team tj did you see anything at that race from inside the team car from inside the race i know you’re uh you don’t hold any punches about you know UAE chasing back some of those breaks and some of those being a little too aggressive but you can’t fault him in this situation because that was the that was the situation they were in after stage one there were still some breaks that had uh solid like best guy on GC at 35 minutes that they were clawing back and I was like “Okay you’re scrapping for bonus seconds here.” So I was a little bit like “Oh my god are you serious right now?” Like so uh I’m I’m staying in that camp but like I’m softening it a little bit because they did have to take every advantage they could um but yeah it like you said I mean he made a solid mistake and even uh um Grochunter was from UAE the German rider was uh in that 29man breakaway on stage one and UAE was not putting up very vigilant of a chase so from us in the car we’re like are you guys going to pin your hope on Felix Grochunter because like that’s a that’s a bit of a gamble um he’s a strong rider obviously he’s he’s got some Paul Mars behind his name and uh but I was like that I mean when I was looking at those guys in the in the first group I was like yeah that that might be a little bit of a gamble if you’re not going to like start you know really pulling it back um but yeah like every stage of the race like at one point it looked like Roman Gregoire like he was solidly in the leader jersey and I was like he might be able to take this thing you give him a threeminute advantage over Almeida he could take this thing kevin Vlan he was super super strong and and the course suited him very well we Let’s not forget this is not the typical Tourist Swiss that we usually see with the major like long thousand meter mountain passes this was more more reminiscent of like a Pais Basque where it’s like you get these super small roads yeah super punchy super small roads super steep so it’s suited perfectly to Kevin Voclan and um and actually it’s suited less so to uh to a Xiao Mida because Yao Almeida he’s like that strong he’s aerodynamic he likes that like those long clims um so it was just one of those things that it was open to everyone hell Alfipe was third um you know so we saw a reassurgence of him and uh you know so it was a very interesting Swiss not your typical tour of Swiss dolphane that was like a that was like a mini tour to France tour Swiss that was like a it’s any man’s game yeah all the more impressive that Xiao was able to chip back those those that time without one big climb where he could just pull out the big club and and smack everyone off his wheel just chipping it away man that Yeah what a full week tj I bet you’re still catching your breath can we talk about Quinn Simmons let’s talk about Quinn Simmons did you guys see Quinn Simmons win that stage let’s do a little American Love Fest on our boy Quinn yes in the American with the Foo Man shoe hair just like in that bun like he was he was the most Yeah flapping across the line that was amazing i got to say I had two riders in that breakaway sabba uh Sebastian Longaved my colleague was up the road with those guys and uh you know he was playing it perfectly he was he was toying with the Pelaton trying to get them as much time as they could but they ended up coming back to 20 seconds on the penultimate i thought they were done that breakaway was dead in the water and Quinn was just like you know what I’m just going to go for it just why not why not give it a shot he goes and he gains 50 seconds and he sticks it all the way to the line with a solo 40 kilometer breakaway i’m just like that does not happen in the world of pro cycling like you just don’t see that kind of thing so I got to say like as as impressive as impressive as all the things that happened during Tour Swiss was that day was the most impressive i’m not saying that I’m owning my American bias but like that was the most impressive it’s okay though i think it’s okay and just like sitting here listening to you guys talk about some very specific parts of stages and stage wins and Quinn in particular my mind just goes to to how lucky we all are to to have these Americans now in the race that are not just in the race but playing meaningful roles and showing up on big teams there’s the possibility of winning stages it’s going to be great to have Seb back i I think Se is going to be back that’ll be fun but uh my first tour TJ back in 2016 I I think it was you and we were we all had so much so much hope that you know TJ Van Garvern was going to be a big part of the race all the time because if it wasn’t TJ who’s it going to be for the American interest and now uh it feels like we are in my 10th year of doing this we’re at the best place we’ve been in terms of there are numerous Americans who could show up in meaningful ways any any of anyone you got a lot better options than me these days no I was didn’t want to say that didn’t didn’t want to walk it up there but there was just a lot of pressure no I took it there i took it there it’s all right it’s all good there was a lot of pressure on you i’m sure that you felt um I felt it too i’m like man hope hope this guy does well because there really isn’t somebody else out there that’s going to step up and take his place if if he doesn’t have a great tour and it just feels like we’ve come a long way uh when comparing it to what it felt like in 2016 yeah Paul that’s an awesome point in the in the jersey too i mean a lot of times we don’t see the US championship jersey even you know in the tour to France or in these these world class races because it is so tactical it is so tricky to win but it’s awesome to see Quinn carry that form from the US Championships back to Europe that first stage of Tour to Swiss I thought he was going to pop us the win that day that the lead out he did the sprint he launched from so far out you could see and feel that hunger and ferocity just frothing at the bit coming out on stage one so really really cool to to see him get it and yeah Paul you’re spot on we have we’re spoiled with the Americans now i mean we’re talking about Matteo Jorgensson uh Yonas Fingo’s really you know left-hand lieutenant at this point we’re also talking about him for being up in the mix in the overall GC hunt as well one of the last men standing in the mountain so yeah times are times are good times are a little less stressful for TJ and uh you know and let’s let’s think about Neil Palace also he also just won a race like it was the precursor to uh to Tur Swiss it was called Gipping In you probably raced at Gipping In uh before Swiss oh you didn’t paul never lined up there still waiting for you never threw any passes in Gipping in Switzerland no I did not never been there to do anything no grit iron and getting in that’s right but TJ you were you were there in the car with Neielson as well right i was indeed yeah yeah yeah you’re you’re looking good man you’re uh they’re going to miss you at the tour we’ll be happy to have you but yeah team team’s going to miss you well the whole the whole reason I’m doing the tour is so that I can get this like pro uh like footage you know is we can I can have eyes on the breakaway eyes on the Pelaton and so I can just feed information back to EF that’s my whole that’s my whole stick here that was the wrong answer TJ like you started it out well the whole reason I’m doing the tour and you had a wide open lane to say nice things about NBC about Brent about me about the fun and the pressure of being on TV every day and you just you know did a little right hand oh you know I’m joking you know I’m just joking i I love uh I love getting suited and booted and made up looking good on camera with next to you Paul the makeup is your favorite part i know i know it is it’s coming quick all right so yeah tour is coming that means we cannot not talk about and we cannot understate overstate Yonas Fingo today Pagotaa the big showdown in my eyes this is once again this is a two-man race we’re talking about the defending champ and the other most recent champ if we look back the past few years it’s these two guys that have dominated the tour it’s going to be that way again it’s barring any sort of disaster or freak situation or crash or sickness it’s Jonas Fingo Today Pagotcha two really deep teams two proven champions in their own right but undoubtedly the momentum is with today Pagotaa this guy has been on fire this year 11 wins you know nearly unstoppable that’s a much different picture than the situation that Yonas Fingo is arriving at the tour to France we got to see the matchup at the Dolphin that’s rare a lot of times we were talking about how spoiled we were pagotcha Vingigo Remco Evanpole all at the Dolphin all actually like taking a chance to even show their vulnerabilities if any it’s rare that we get all the favorites for the tour at the Dolphin lining up but we saw it and that was a that was an action-packed week paul I think you followed the Dolphin a fair bit from the sounds of it i imagine you haven’t quued into every bike race that’s been on the calendar this year you’ve been watching football you’ve been watching basketball you’ve been Yeah doing Champions League so what what was the headline from you coming out of the Dolphin as you’re switching your focus into tour to France mode and seeing today Pagotaa just really really almost clean the floor with the rest of the Pelaton yeah I think first of all going in Brent it was just super fun to have the three top guys there Yonas Remco there I mean that’s that’s exciting in and of itself to see them all in the same place so it was kind of mustwatch I say TV but mustwatch iPad mustwatch phone however you take it in uh it it was exciting for all of us who get excited about cycling this particular time of year and then I forget what stage it was guys but it was early and TAD looked looked human on the time trial and lost all kinds of time and unless you are just a someone who was pulling hard for him to win and dominate if you’re a fan of close cycling in big races it was kind of like you sit up a little taller you’re like “Oh okay maybe maybe this isn’t Superman 24/7 maybe maybe the other guys are going to have a bit of a chance so there was that moment there was that day or two where we could have you know had fun with the thought that TAD is just one of the guys and then as the race got longer into the week it looked like he wasn’t even trying it it it looked like a guy who was a varsity athlete going up against the junior varsity athletes with all respect to the rest of them that’s how much better he looked so uh it was only a week long but it kind of those three feelings the excitement of having everybody there the hope that maybe TAD has come back a little bit but then having that thing buried he just rode away from everybody at the pace he chose yeah well said once again this time gap that you look at at the finish if you just didn’t watch the race and looked at that result sheet right now you see a minute from Pagacha to Bingo you’re like “Oh like that that’s really close by Dolphin A standards pre-our to France.” And yeah we did have the TT and that is sort of like the asterisk on today Pagacha’s tour to France prep is we’re all kind of wondering what what happened in that TD that was not classic Pagotcha but the the way he asserted himself those final few mountain days and even the the last stage in particular when they were racing to the line for second place and you could see Bingo like winding up his sprint like saying like all right I’m going to go to the line with you now and I’m going to beat you for second place and TD just sort of sitting down and like looking at him with his mouth closed like no man I’m not playing that game I already I already smacked you the past two days and I’m going into July with that momentum so uh yeah good luck at your training camp the next few weeks tj what was your take on that from the from the director uh mentality and director point of view what I loved the most about it is you could tell that these two teams do not like each other like there is a serious rivalry going on there there were head games there were there were like you know I’m going to take it to you but then if you try to take it to me then I’m like why do I even have to play with you like it’s it’s there is no love lost between these two bike riders of course there’s respect there but um these two guys they’re you know was it that way last year TJ they’re out for blood is that new was that around last year to the extent that you feel it right now h I mean last year they were tied at 22 and uh I think that you know you could see that uh Teddy Pagotra when he’s winning he is the funnest like happy golucky like you know just a joy to be around and like a you know a joy to like look at on camera right that day that Yonas Vingo beat him at that sprint and the whole momentum shift to the Vizma camp you saw him in the cool down he’s like I cannot lose to this dude a third time I cannot not lose like I can’t lose this tiebreaker um can happen won’t happen i mean UAE and Vizma they’re the two dominant teams of this era and they they’re fighting for supremacy and these are the two best riders of their generation and you know like sometimes you know you have these generations where nobody really has a true rival these guys are true rivals and uh you know did did Magic like like Bird not so much in the day you know yeah that just made it all the better so like as someone who doesn’t know the tactics nearly the way you guys do I’m I’m always looking for points of interest that all of us can kind of latch on to and watch and the two top teams being so talented and having the two best guys I mean that’s good just by itself if they truly don’t like each other if there’s a great rivalry there and a little bit of bad blood I mean maybe if you’re inside one of those teams it’s not as enjoyable but just someone who likes the race and is looking for things of interest like my that is that is awesome if these two teams don’t like each other and we see it play out that way that Yeah Paul that’s a good um that question that you asked to TJ was it like that last year my perspective on that is it has ramped up but I I do flash back to one of the last stages last year when our USA compatriot Matteo Jorgensson was really in the position to win a stage and today Pagotaa once again chases him down cleans him up and I believe there was even a social media post or or a tweet or something from Matteo something to the nature of like not forgetting this will not be forgotten this will like this will be my motivation my fuel my fire and and TJ you were especially on to this you were really fired up of like like yes like there there will be a comeback there will be some redemption but yeah I think it all ties in together because and and TJ we’ve talked about this a lot but this idea of UAE today Pagotcha they they take what they want not always what they need sometimes they take more than what they need and yeah that I think that has just gone to intensify this this battle this rivalry it’s as for sure as hot as ever when I think of Vizma Lisa Bike UAE traditionally historically I sort of thought as Vizma sort of having this more like tactical strategic um sort of I don’t know like optimization than UAE and UAE more just having like all the star players just like brought in all the stars whereas Visma Lisa like Yonas Vingo is very strategic calculated that kind of showed through the last time Vingo beat Pagotch when Pagotcha sort of just crumbled at the end and they were saying this was our plan the whole time this was our plan the whole time i think UAE has evolved but there there is still this feeling I have in my mind that they’re they’re not there they’re there’s still sort of um yeah holes or gaps in their their unity as a team and it even showed through at the at the Jurro if we’re talking about the team as a whole it’s the same team that has charged it not the same riders but the organization that’s charged a captain today to another tour to France that sort of miscommunication from the directors to the riders it showed through i I see I see what you’re getting at Brent it’s like UAE is like an all-star team and uh like Visma is kind of like a prime Golden State Warriors you know it’s like that’s the difference um so it’s like I would I would take a prime Golden State Warriors over uh over an all-star team even though like basically the whole all-star team was made up of the Golden State Warriors but uh yeah they they race together as a team they come in with a plan they come in with like every rider has a proven objective and right now when you put together a compilation of stars even though Tata Pagotch is the undisputed uh star of that team and the undisputed leader you did see and I did allude to a few times last year when I saw some some teammates that were kind of holding back a little bit kind of saving a little for themselves like you know what Xiaoa might be feeling himself a little bit he just won the tour of Swiss and he’s not really known to be one to work for many other people the only time he’s really called on to work for someone else is in the month of July is he really going to do that um probably but is he also going to like pull off and then slot in behind and like re is he really going to sell out to that point or is he going to be like you know what I’m gonna hold on to my little placing here so as soon as I’m done pulling just slot in the wheel and you know find the best wheel I can and push to the line i think so there’s a big difference yeah with Almeida I do think so i think last year what we saw was a little bit of a dynamic with Almeida and Auso and as far as I know I don’t think Auso is set to start the tour after his bid at the Jirro i think UAE is actually physically like they they will miss AUSO you know world class climbing talent one of the best in the world but in terms of the team cohesion and even this Almeida Auso like who’s the who’s the next best who’s the last man standing who gets to stay close on time I think I think there’s a fair amount of certainty with the UAE team that that will be Xiaoida and I think when you’re looking at both these teams Vizma and UAE it serves them both well to keep a second rider at least on GC so with Vizma I think that’s going to be Matteo Jorgensson and then UAE will be Jalamida and you know hopefully from our point of view hopefully those guys do do stay close and we see some interesting tactical racing uh that’s going to play out probably probably if we’re going to be honest not until the middle chunk of this race you know we can go into the route in a little bit once we close up the Dolphin and Swiss but this route is uh is really set to have the GC shakeups happening you know only in the second half and even in in the second third who who uh which team would you stack up uh best like not not in terms of the two best like TD Vigo like okay that that’s its own separate argument but say you match up uh Jorgensson and Jiao and Se or Adam Yates like uh and then on down the roster like T Spanoot and uh you know um whoever like who which roster would you would you uh would you say has the best roster heading into July yeah it’s it’s so tough like on paper they’re almost like it’s almost like direct they’re mirror images they’re mirror images they are really almost mirror images i I will say that one one sort of a weapon that Visma Lisa Bug has that UAD does not have is WOW van and Paul you’re no you’re no stranger to the WOW show we’ve had uh we’ve had plenty of tours where we’re like we got to talk about WOW again and last year was not the year it was it was not the prime time out but he did have a strong Jirro he got a very emotional stage win there uh and I think he’s he’s going to be back um on board for Bingo and and maybe you know chipping looking for his own chance in one of those stages the first 10 days as well but uh the I still see UA impact Wout had in the Giro yeah that was like W he he he is the difference maker it’s a big deal having him i think it would be so difficult to to be a team director for either one of those two because you know going in you’re there for really one reason even though you got a lot of stars and a lot of talent who could show up in a number of really fun ways and win stages uae is there for TAD to win period if he doesn’t win this July is a failure for them same thing with Yonis and and Visma they’re there to win and if he doesn’t win you cannot look at anything else they did and say they had a successful tour yet they have super talented elite guys on their team that also want to have their moments and have their days i I think it would be really difficult to keep all of them happy while you also know because everybody’s looking out for their own job i didn’t do my job on this leadership team if we don’t come home top of the podium um so that’s number one but how do I keep everybody else and they’re you know they’re all tied for second most important on the list of priorities how do I keep them going and happy too the way you keep them happy is say like you can win in September or you can win in May but when it comes to July you guys better be on board i mean we’ve had we’ve seen other leaders like that uh Chris Froom had Richie Port on his team Garren Thomas on his team um uh Wout Pool’s on his team yeah and uh you know Lance Armstrong had Roberto Harris like a four-time winner of the Walt Spana on his team he had Floyd Landis who went on to you know do some things I but he was always able to keep his guys in the road it’s like okay guys like look you guys can have success over there you won tour Swiss Almeida that’s great but when you come here to July you you better know what the priority is so you have to have that charismatic leader to be like look you’ll get your day just not in July right right i remember back I think it was 2018 guys it might have been 17 it might have been 19 but I think it was 18 and you mentioned Froom and Garren Thomas like we were like we it was deep into the second week maybe even touching the third in the Pyrenees when they were very close garrett and Chris were like they they backed the top two guys and all of a sudden on one of these historic clims Garren Thomas looked better and everybody’s kind of looking at each other in the studio like who’s their leader now like which guy are they supporting and I’m paraphrasing but I remember talking to Bob and Christian about it live afterward and they both said like you can’t ignore what you just saw like we just saw the shift the leader went from the guy who’s won a bunch and Chris Room to the guy who’s better right now i I don’t anticipate that happening with either one of these teams this year but u my mind just went there as you mentioned those guys that very unique situation back a few years ago yeah those factors undoubtedly playing out i mean we’re talking about Matteo Jorgensson Ja yeah I think Seth has been fairly vocal about he doesn’t necessarily see himself or want to be the tour to France leader on that team but yeah these guys are they’re playing the long range game too it’s not just about this year but their the rest of their careers and they’re all it’s a tough time to be an aspiring GC rider with the era of Yonas Vingo today Pagasha because they are both still by normal standards quite young and could hypothetically go for for a long long time but right I think uh when we’re talking about these two this matchup Bingigo Pagotcha do you guys have any thoughts on Remco Evan pole primo’s rogitch I mean there will be a third place on the podium there’s going to be some other interesting racing the tour always does dish out some surprises from what I’ve saw at Remco at the dolphin he is he is on the way up he’s still got that magic in the time trial still the world’s best despite the adversity he’s persever interviewed through this year this is only his second tour to France and he did a really strong debut debut tour to France next year i don’t think he’s he’s going to be in the position to challenge those two but I’m still excited to see what Remco does i think his team this classic Belgian ethos is also well suited to this yeah on paper a little more um like hectic uh first week first 10 days it’s kind of back to this classic mold of like a real long run until we get to the mountains i think um Remco Evan pole and his team are also quite well suited for that yeah definitely i mean we can’t forget that uh Remco did not have the best Dolphane last year he was a little bit quiet and same with this year like he obviously won the TT in dominant fashion because he’s just a a TT rockstar but um I’m not really worried about him being able to contend in the mountains because some people they just have a slower buildup um some people they need that confidence to just like I got to go smash the dopeade to give myself a boost of confidence to go into July knowing that I’m good some people they follow their plan they’re methodic about it and they’re like I know I’m going to be a little bit behind in the Dolph as long as there’s not like a panic button that needs to be hit then I can just kind of follow my buildup and be good in July because from the start of the DFA to the end of the tour that’s like six weeks that’s a that’s a long time to hold form so if he’s coming in a little bit undercooked I I I feel like that’s good for Remco um as far as Primos uh that crashing out of the GRO um or stopping in the gro after the crash and I I don’t know what like we haven’t seen him i I don’t I don’t He’s the biggest question mark um now obviously he’s super professional you know he’s going to be there he’s going to do the work but can he stay on his bike i don’t know yeah yeah that’s kind of the whole thing with him too and that’s why when I think about this Remco or Primos as we get ready for the tour you know which one you you you picture one of them being on the podium there at third the Remco story is a great one too he’s an easy guy to pull for when you look at his last 10 years and and what he’s been through but he’s so young that there’s this thought that if it doesn’t happen for him this year there are plenty of tours out there for him to not only be on the podium but also win and he’s that good and he’s that young with Primos he is he’s such a likable character in terms of a super talented bigname kind of guy but because of what’s happened and TJ mentioned you know that crashing out how many times have we talked about him in a big race and crashing out is in there or falling off his bike or it just ends in some little heartbreaking way so many times and now you have a guy in his 30s and if if he with all of that in his background and let’s not forget five years ago he had the tour and had it snatched away from him uh in very unlikely fashion at the very end on a time trial so I think people who like sports can latch on to someone who’s had his heart broken a lot and is getting up there in age at least athletically and you wonder how many more times can this guy come back you and can be considered to be a threat so I like Remco a lot i would love to be in the third week with all that he’s been through and see Primos right there with a chance to be on the podium i think it’d be really cool you know what name comes to mind when uh when Paul was given that little speech there Brent what’s that cadell Evans yeah for sure persistence tenacity yep just dogged pursuit of the the dream and the goal yeah having the team built around him it wasn’t that long ago that we talked about the big switch and transition of Primos’s moving from the squad that that he was there with Jonas Bingigo over to Bora and you know Bora is not a new young team anymore if they’ve they’ve had the time now to to grease the wheels to create the pathways develop the leadership the culture and uh and they have they have a very stacked talented roster as well uh the uh Lipovitz from Greenos Rogich’s teammate was definitely a standout headliner from the recent weeks and uh yeah someone that I hadn’t really had on my radar as a world climber who could climb with the likes of of these elite leaders but he’s equipped he has a he has a really strong team and he has all the experience the question is I think like you guys just said going to be can he stay on on the bike and uh I think that’s actually a nice segue even to talk about this route a little bit because the tour to France is starting in northwest France starting up in Normandy region tj you’ve raced there i believe maybe we’ve even started the tour there as teammates before oh man as a bike rider I don’t I don’t like it man it’s a it’s a it’s a hectic place to race it’s windy there’s tons of road furniture and uh when I think of the Tour to France Pelaton up there in northwest France it it feels like just Yeah classic gritty uh stressful tour to France first week racing and there there isn’t a big selector climb in the first week it’s going to be yeah it’s going to be hotly contested small time gap margins we’re looking really all the way to uh stage 10 when the first uphill finishes and that was another important note that I saw is they’re doing 10 days without a rest day and that’s hard for us too in the studio but that’s really tough for these guys year nine is already like are you kidding me i got to do nine days without like a little break a little travel break rest day but they’re doing 10 i mean we’re going to be uh we’re going to be a bit on our knees after 10 days so uh these guys 10 days starting up in up in Normandy Mir Bratanna in the first week a time trial in the first week and then the nasty massie central to close out the first week i mean these directors are going to be killing these guys when they’re talking about the first week that’s 10 days a week is not 10 days but that’s a big big opening block tj you’re you know you’re in the car you’re you’re at the Veler open you’re gonna have the same for us in the studio getting us all those insights but what are your thoughts on the on this dynamic and this sort of return to old template of uh yeah having a more classic like lots of chances for the sprinters some puncher stages little time trial but this long stretch till we hit the Pyrenees yeah yeah well I think the for the riders anyway this uh that opening 10 days will be broken up a little bit by the TT i mean even if you’re going for the TT and you have to go full gas you do get a little bit of reprieve because it’s not like you’re four or five hours in the saddle so the riders will get a little bit of break especially the ones not like the sprinters who just need to make time cut so that’s kind of a little mini rest day in itself but uh there are a lot of punchy stages and there’s a lot of chances to like you know chip away get some psychological advantages and uh I think some you know some good stages for my boy Neil Powace there um you know some of those punchy kind of like Arden style um so yeah I think I it’s going to be an exciting first 10 days um now hopefully we don’t have some of those days where you know it’s just completely flat and nothing on and nobody even wants to go in the breakaway because those days you know they get a little bit they get a bit a little bit long in the tooth for us there in the booth but uh we’ll be in the sandbox then we will be in the sandbox many times absolutely i’m pictured the first 10 first 10 days here guys i’m going to kind of slip into the host role here for a moment and happily give it right back to Brent i’m enjoying this just kind of being part of the conversation on the outside but looking at that first week and a half without any mountains we’re going to be so excited every day to keep an eye on TAD and Yonas do you guys anticipate getting through that first week and having anything but a eight or 10 second gap between them like what do you expect between the top two guys knowing that place for them begins with stage 10 well knowing Tad Pagotcher he races every inch of the road so if there is one of those punchy finishes he’s not going to think like “Ah I’m going to save it for the big mountains or I’m going to save it for the third week.” He’s going to chip away at everything he can so we will see some exciting racing in this first 10 days and I think that Tide is going to have the distinct advantage in these first 10 days so I wouldn’t be surprised with him i think he’ll be he’ll come out with more than an 8-second advantage it’ll probably be closer to a minute maybe even a little over a minute wow but you know Yumbo Visma they might they’re going to be like “Okay we’re going to pick this one stage where we’re going to find the steepest longest climbs and we’re going to put our entire team on the front and we’re going to try to grind him down because we think that Yonas is better at the steeper sustained climbs and we’re going to try to crack him.” Now whether or not TAD can be cracked remains to be seen but it did happen in the past yeah and yeah that’s an important note i think Yeah Paul I think this these first 10 days Yonas would be extremely happy if he’s if he’s coming through there on same time as TAD would be great success like close in the mix within that in that under 30 seconds i think he’d also be be really happy i think looking at the build and also looking at how the climbing stages stack up you know once we are out of these 10 days you know then we’re looking at the second half of the race they got to go through the Pyrenees and the Elps so it’s it is really condensed and stacked up there’s a uphill time trial the cold de low up to above Corchvel that the the image we have and the sound bite that we have etched into our minds from that exact climb that stage is today Pagotcha saying I’m finished i’m dead when Yonas Bingo did pour on that onslaught a couple years ago so I think that that does keep it really exciting and interesting that we have this sort of a there’s like this association there’s this storyline of waiting for the big clims not just any big climbs but really the one that brought the end to today Pagotcha last time Yonas Bingo beat him uh that keeps it really interesting yeah good recall good context there that’s fun um TJ back to you here you guys have mentioned that it’s going to be concerning you know kind of nervy that first week to 10 days and it’s not going to be because of the mountains and it’s not going to be because the GC race has officially begun yet what’s what’s concerning for Tade and Yonas in that first week to 10 days o I mean you see how close all those riders ride together i mean everything is just heightened times like 2% in the tour to France people ride closer together people are more nervous there’s more helicopters you just feel like you’re in this like apocalypse now with that like the helicopter sound in your ear it’s just uh it’s just the most stressful thing um everybody nobody wants to lose a single second everybody’s on high alert you know like this is the big show this is what everybody all these other races throughout the year they carry their own prestige and their own points and their own whatever but careers are are made at the tour to France and everybody knows that and so people are just sometimes you get a rookie in their first tour um and they’re just like they’re just so excited and so nervous that they just they just cause some crashes or they and you know if there’s wind in northern France there’s always wide open sections where you have nothing but but just grass fields and the wind is just ripping along these courses and if you turn right into the crosswind the field breaks in three pieces um and that happens all the time in the tour especially in the first week when uh when everyone’s clock is at zero when when people’s GC is more separated people get a bit more relaxed they’re like “Okay I’m in this group here you’re in that group up there i know my place.” But at the start everyone’s like even guys who know that they’re not on GC they’re just like “Well I I better not lose time because you never know what could happen you know I could find myself in the yellow jersey in the right break for a day.” And uh it just makes for just a hectic hectic pelon and TJ that that was it it was the it’s the whole pelaton you know we look at the tour the past few years for the sprinters the yellow jersey was basically off the table it’s not every year that these group of fastmen these sprinters even these punchers they have a realistic chance at the yellow jersey but this is one of those years that they’re most likely a sprinter will have yellow for at least a day maybe a good chunk of this first week and that you’re you’re looking at this full pelaton of not just the GC guys wanting to keep themselves safe but these sprinters teams we got to remember there’s these sprinter teams that they’re throwing their whole squad at behind their fasten just like UAE and Vismaike are against their GC guys oh that that is rowdy i cringe thinking about it because uh yeah there will be crashes and unfortunately I’m going to go ahead and say it but we will lose a GC guy or two in that first week it will not they will not all be it will not they will not all be in the deck heading into that first uphill finish on stage 10 it they it will claim at least one just by like just by sheer mathematics of there’s only so much space on the road there will be crashes and yeah some someone is some someone’s gonna be odd man out um I hope I’m wrong because I want them all to be there going into that that mountain in a second and third week but it’s unlikely with this kind of start i think what you’re saying this this whole time I’m hearing a lot of words Brent but basically what you’re saying is stay on your bike Primos stay on it so much easier said than done but yeah please Primos yeah stay on your bike i hope we can get some magic for Primos yeah we want to see you in the mountains tj you’re talking about how nervous people are at the beginning how much better are you feeling this year not not as a as a uh we’re not talking about you as a team director we’re talking about you as a TV analyst how much better are you feeling right now than you did a year ago before you’d ever done it oh man when as soon as those bright lights came on I was like I remember I remember uh Joel Joelle he’s probably listening to us right now he was like after the first couple of days he’s like “TJ you look like Stevie Wonder out there i know there’s like screens on screens on screens but you got to like just you got to like focus on like either one camera or Brent or Paul but like stop stop looking everywhere like uh I feel like I feel like I know at least to where my eyes need to track.” Like if that’s anything i thought about you i thought about you during basketball season TJ i worked with a basketball analyst who like you like warmed up to it right away and got good hurry but like right away before we went on that very first time he kind of gave me the look like what what like what is that what is that what is this button i’d look where talk about what what do I do with my hands what what do I do with my hands Paul yeah where do I look yes um so it’s uh it’s common and I laugh now i can only laugh now because you’re very comfortable with it and like I said you got good at it but um that’s always it’s always interesting to see people come in right away brand new and that was Brent two years ago i mean this is the first time we’ve had a veteran studio guys in a long time i mean Brent was new uh and then uh you know TJ came in you were new so now it would have been nice to warm up with like a tour of California or something or like a little wasn’t wasn’t maybe throw me into the Dolph but you just throw me into the wolves but you know we got we got a hit squad this year right away so it’s it’s fun to look at you at at both you guys and know that we’ve done this before together it’s a little different than it felt this year at this or last year at this time uh looking forward to it uh we coming to your place we got fish tacos again whatever you guys want you guys are the ones traveling i I’ll be the host here at the house i say I My wife will be be the lead host i will be like the junior varsity host but whatever you guys want whatever you guys want to eat and drink at the house couple times at least during the tour looking forward to it paul I I’m getting psyched guys this has been a nice uh nice little opener to get me get me ramped up get me excited to be back in the studio with you guys i think before we sign off let’s just go right to stage one i think next time I see you guys we’re going to be doing the pre-race show and we’re going to be talking about Yeah who who’s going to come to the four at stage one it is a sprinter stage we don’t have Mark Cavendish this year which like in terms of covering the race that was a fairy tale last year i I loved it i loved that i was right about calling that he was going to make it happen that felt good but uh also just for the sportsman the champion that Cav is that whole the whole storyline the the real fairy tale like we’ll miss it but that said we have some very talented stacked field of sprinters uh Jonathan Milan Yasper Phillips Germay was really the revelation of of also sprinting at last year’s tour and it’s been a quiet year for him been quiet this year yeah he has not done much this year Brent i don’t think he’s won I don’t think he’s won a race this year which for a sprinter is Oh he’s getting thirsty yeah he’s definitely uh he’s going to be needing it but I think may maybe if anything that tour last year put him on a new level of having a calmness and a confidence of kind of that becoming his bread and butter of I’m a tour to France stage winner now i’m a green jersey winner and I’m confident that I can get back there and I I think he will too i think Germa’s going to be going to be good but that it is it’s a pretty stacked list we It’s hard to guess those first few days when we have our little inner inner team competition of picking stage winners picking points you know the first stages with the sprinters are hard because we’re kind of like you haven’t seen him in this tour to France Pelaton it’s a bit of a Are you going to join in that game this year Paul come on are you going to join in that game i’ve never been invited tj I’m just I’m just on the sidelines extending an invitation i’m extending an invitation do you have the power to do this are you the general manager who can who can like actually give me the green light are you just like the player personnel director who make a suggestion no I’m putting in a petition i’ll say that okay okay well I I’m here and ready i’m ready for if you guys want to invite me in somebody is somebody new to be in last place make you guys feel better i was definitely bringing up the rear last year i I think think we can get you in Paul i think we’re we’re going to submit this We’re going to submit this approval to the producer actually just heard hold on yeah guys it’s coming in we We’ve got approval paul Burm he’s in he’s in all right all right here we go new player in the game i just needed to host it nine times 10th times a charm you’ve been watching all these years Paul been watching taking notes laughing watching all of our recording all of our folly you know all the tricks Bob role plays now you know how he baits us into picking the wrong guy oh yeah yeah so it’s going to be interesting it’ll be good to have you and Phil bob and Phil will have an opinion on me being in there i I may have to talk to them both separately but now now I’m lobbying for the first pick of stage one i can talk to Joelle whose name has come up a couple of times he’s the producer in charge of all this i’ll talk to Joelle and see if I can sneak my way into first pick on the first day [Laughter] don’t get greedy Paul all right okay i don’t I don’t know there flip Oh flip the coin okay don’t Don’t press your luck all right we’ll see i play for keeps okay i play for keeps i know you guys do it’s serious business like everybody’s laughing about it but I know it means a lot to you guys so um all the all the games within the all the games within the game we got races within the race at the tour we got games within the game at the studio i’m excited guys be a great month it’s a long time sometimes you got to have something to get you through there you know stage 17 you know look forward to that you know to the race see if you get the best pick you know how it is all right all right well we got we got we’ll have a new addition to our interstage competition in Paul Burmeister we’ll have fish tacos at Paul’s house TJ we’re going to have have a have a great time in the studio 21 days of racing coming up quick we’re 12 days to the start of this year’s tour to France and we will catch everyone then at Beyond the Podium see you next time for all your cycling content year round subscribe to NBC Sports YouTube page we got L