Join me as I reconnect with Sukma Laristiti, a fellow Humboldtian at Universität Kassel, who takes us through her inspiring journey—from navigating the application process to conducting groundbreaking research in Germany. In this interview, Sukma dives into the economic benefits of cycling in Germany and explores how similar initiatives could benefit Indonesia’s urban development and sustainability.
Follow her on LinkedIn: Sukma Laristiti
Hi everyone, welcome to my YouTube channel and today is going to be very interactive and fun because we are two humbled fellows and we are going to talk about humbled and we talk about our experiences especially from the application stage and given that sukma is done with hers and I’m just starting it will be nice to get her perspective on how her on what her experience was and um learnings for the future and those who want to apply for this fellowship. So stay tuned and don’t go [Music] anywhere. Okay. So um welcome back said um today’s interview is going to be very fun. It’s the first time conducting an interview. So I think I’m equally nervous like Sukma is and um so a brief introduction before Sukma introduces herself. Sukma is an Alexander Humbot fellow um 2024 to 2025 right and she’s from Indonesia. Luckily for me she happened to be in my department. So um it’s been we’ve been talking since my um shortlisting stage and finally when I came she was of like immense help to me. So we have two assignments here today talk about the fellowship her experience and application for both of us and then um her experience as a humbled fellow and then lastly her research. Yes, because she made some very interesting research and it’s for me it was eye opening because given the lack of data available when it comes to cycling and micromobility use active travel around the world especially Indonesia is still able to come out with something very significant which I think is a starting stone for Indonesia if they really want to take active mobility and sustainability very serious. So um welcome Sukma and um should I say congratulations. Okay. Yeah because one year it’s it’s how is it? Would you like to introduce yourself? I think probably should I’ve done that already. Okay. Hello everyone. Uh good evening from Germany and my name is Sukmai. Uh you can call me just Sukma. I am from Indonesia and in Indonesia I work as a transport planner. Uh I have like several works on bike lanes planning, road safety, transport and gender and then public transport. So it’s a lot of thing but my concern recently is about broad safety and non-motorized transport use. We get usually say it as active mobility. Yeah, that’s my concern because at home we walk and when we go out from our door we walk and I think the most easiest way to go around our house or neighborhood is by cycling, not my motorized vehicles or cars. That’s what I did in Indonesia. Yeah, that’s interesting because I also come from a road safety background and we are I’m also looking at um active travel sustainable travel and it looks like our research is quite interlin interrelated and moreover that we coming from third world countries with similar situation at least I’ve been privileged to listen to your presentations twice so I know what it is but those here don’t know what um it says but before we to your research. How was the application process like for you? Okay. Uh that’s very difficult question for me because uh I received the information about this fellowship is around November in 2022 and then I contact my supervisor. I met her in 2021 in a like um woman urban leader workshop and we talked there and that’s why we have like a direct contact and she gave the information about the fellowship and then I contact her and she said yes we can try it and then I need to write the proposal and then yeah I write a proposal started in December And then it’s uh finished around January after like several times of repetition. Yeah, of course. I think that’s the the most difficult thing to do. Yeah. Yeah. it it’s quite uh so the background of my research is at that time I can say is that the question that I have since 2017 but it’s it’s just like question I didn’t think about the methodology or trying to find like deeper something yeah and I just think about it and maybe I can do something like this so my research is about maybe I tell them a bit about this the title Yeah. Is about economic sustainability of cycling whether it can possible to give like uh sustainability toward the the city. Economic benefits. Economic benefits. Yeah. Uh so from that I wrote I try really hard. It’s one month is very short because the longer time is like you were sending the the email and then waiting for the feedback feedback and I need to revise again and then all the process happen and then there are a lot of administration things to be fulfilled even though I can say that uh the application process for Alexander Humboldt is not really that difficult. You just need to fill in every information and I think the best thing about this fellowship is that they don’t you are not really need to have IELTS certification. IELTS. Yes. Yes. Yes. I think that’s the great thing about this because it’s like cut the budget. Yeah. Yeah. You know because it’s not um also an educational thing. It’s just research. So yeah, it’s and it’s very open for anyone who wants to but you should just be proficient in English I mean yeah you need to prove that you can communicate in English especially writing you are working in research of course yeah that’s very important and yeah I think the most funny thing I don’t know maybe you also experienced the same or not is that I just received the recommendation letter from my supervisor 1 hour before the deadline so I think we we both did because we both did because I also got mine like a few hours to the submission. Angela was like, “Have you filled everything?” I’m like, “Yes.” She said, “Are you sure you filled everything?” Yeah. Okay. Now, I’m going to So, I think she submitted her recommendation letter and then I submitted my my whole application and Yeah. But was like you said, you met Angela. Mhm. So, you knew Angela. was a contact. I also met Angela through a program the move on summer school in Cape Coast. So there was that contact and given that I also started my application process late because it ended 2nd February and I saw the um fellowship on 28th January. That’s when I started my application. I had roughly 4 days to wait but I I got lucky it got extended. Now talking to other fellows, the most difficult part of it was finding a supervisor, a host. Yes, that’s true. That’s true. And for those of us who were lucky to have contacts, yes, we might not have gone through that hustle, but others might have others did go through that hustle. And I always tell people, if you really want to do this, start looking for a host or a supervisor like months ahead. Yeah. Months ahead. Try to contact them. So I have a one of a fellow friend that she contacts like seven professor in Germany and only get one response but I think with all this weird deals of finding the host uh I think it’s really good fellowship that they support all your research but they also support your development as a person. Yeah this is the greatest thing in this fellowship I can say. Yeah, because they tell you we are not it’s not the projects we are funding, we are funding the person. Yes, I think that’s the best things and we’re to the language program you take the renew R reach renewable academy there’s always something for you to do to improve yourself the seminars the presentations like okay I think we are jumping ahead but yes that’s that is that is it about the fellowship it’s it’s one of the best things that I just started but I already know the benefits I’m getting from it and you have been through I so before I came I used to follow you on LinkedIn ah and I I see your post and Sukma is in Amsterdam attending this conference doing this research he’s talking to this person and I’m like wo and I think you had a presentation on the alumni alumni portal I’m like wa this girl is like you know I think it’s one of the things The fellowship exposes you yes to another as a woman in science. Yes, of course. How does it feel? Uh I think that’s feel so great for me because uh this is also one thing that makes me think that this uh scholarship fellowship is scholarship also very great is that they didn’t uh really have prejudice to you. So um my problem with my historical uh academic uh background for example I I stay very long time in the university because I study while I also need to work and then it took me like more than 6 years and then my work because it’s very still a very scarce in Indonesia transport is still an emerging sector so I only work like in in a consultancy and it’s it’s not like you work all the time of the year. That’s the one thing that usually put me in a bad place. So in this fellowship they asked me uh what did I do during those empty timeline? Yeah. And I have like I I I established a a community with my friends at the time about transport how we can advocate road safety cycling and walking to the government and that’s what I do and they they accept that and when I they ask me that question during the first selection process during uh the administrative things I need to answer like date by date what I did in a very detail. I was thinking I maybe not will be um go through the next selection process and but I pass it and I go through the next stage. So that’s what I think that this fellowship is see you as person. Yeah. I mean they they are also funding early career leaders. Yes. Prospective leaders that is the people who are doing something on the ground. It’s not you don’t have to they don’t want you to use the fellowship as the starting stone kind of that’s what I think where you should have already started something. Yes. Yes. Because I think I also got this was even during the selection process I got asked what am I doing now? Mhm. With regards to my study. Mhm. And I have to tell them I kind of lecture so I do have some level of influence when it comes to my students to be able to preach sustainable mobility to and for me that was like I think that was one of the solid points because then I was already doing something with regards to that side where I was working. So it is it’s all about prospective leader. to finding yourself as a prospecting leader. Yeah. I mean that was a plus. It’s not it’s not about your work experiences because there were people in the fellowship. Um when we got shortlisted Mhm. they had worked with like international organizations and all that they had a lot of work experience but they didn’t have the practical experience of and I think your project also is very practical because the fellowship looks at how practical your project is. Mhm. I got a lot of compliments during the selection process and most of the chairpersons for the committees were like okay this is a very doable project. Yeah. So it’s something I think um future is it applicants yes or prospective fellows should um also look at um be doing something you know don’t wait to say you’re getting money from here to do it. The truth is the money. It’s just like uh the selection process is just like you are proving who you are. Yeah. Who you are. That’s the the thing that I I get from all the process from the first selection and then the second selection. Yeah. It’s about who you are. I mean when I remember when we were doing the interview, you were prepping me for the interview. You and Le and I think even Jack um Jack was a fellow in 2020. Um I was told talk about yourself. sell yourself. Yes. But then the fun part was the selection process, the selection process itself. Yes. Using 5 minutes to pitching your proposal like how how was it for? It feels like you are selling something right. Then you’re selling your idea that I need to get this funded because this is very interesting. This is very important for the people maybe for your country in a what way? For example, I do like a comparative with Germany. How is important this issue to Germany and with your country? Yeah. My country Indonesia and how it will be like impact the future development. That’s that’s the case. Yeah. That’s the thing that they asked me. Yeah. I think it’s it’s very important because they want to see how we could also transfer knowledge, share knowledge between Germany and our countries. Yes. So I remember when I had to select I was like what transport issues has Germany got because when I was here in 2023 everything seemed perfect. I was like what can I research one in Germany and then Angela said no it shouldn’t be about Germany you could make learnings from um Germany I was like okay I mean there are so many issues Germany is doing well although being here for like 4 months Mhm. I’ve started seeing some gaps, okay, and areas or improvement in the transfer system in Germany, but it’s far better than what we have in, you know, in Ghana. And um I think um that’s what made me choose the topic I did because Uniccastle has a model. Mhm. UC has a model. Mhm. And I mean they are both in cities with about the same population. So yeah, I mean about 200,000. Oh, it’s not that big. That’s big. Yeah, because in Indonesia we have a lot of populations. That’s one thing that makes me really surprised when I arrive here in Germany and then have discussion with Angela and he she reminded me Sukma Germany and Indonesia is different. We have like a lower number of population than Indonesia. You need to make sure that the your comparison is correct. Correct. So yeah, I mean it’s it’s all about um the project, the viability of it and how practical it is. Um how would you say research in Germany is like? I mean I’m sure when you were coming you had this whole fantasy about researching in Germany. How have you been able to navigate it? Especially the fact that Germany is very data protective. Mhm. Getting data in Germany is very like bureaucratic and ridiculous. How were you able to get over it the challenges, the excitement? Can you Okay. So about the research uh because uh previously I didn’t work in research. So this is like a very brand new experience to me. uh in Indonesia for example when I was in the university we don’t have u mission staff learning mission staff mid art by terin or mid right metabites yeah assistant researcher we don’t have that kind of system so we only have lecturers who teach and also do the research so it’s like a big job to do by one person but here there is somebody who teach for example Angela teach the students and then the other working for the research project. This is my first time to understand this kind of system. But I think this way makes uh the research could progress because if you have too much on your plate then you work on nothing. Yeah, that’s that’s um what uh I learned from this and I think the best thing about research here is about of course access to publication. Yeah, that’s the best things because in Indonesia it’s quite difficult the university have the difficulty to subscribe to these general thing. That’s true. Yeah. And also I think the best thing about research in Germany is that they have very organized data, public data. That’s super good. But it’s also can be like overwhelming to you that usually you work with no data and suddenly it’s every large data set you know. Yeah. And then you need to compare nothing with something. It’s like I remember your 2 million data. Yeah. Yeah. it we I also during um my research for example I can I can finally gather like 2 million data from Indonesia but it’s not easy to gather uh I I got a help for that who knows the way our government doing like uh recording the data yeah recording the the data so I can get it and I only take like 4,000 from those 2 million that’s uh very difficult process for me that I’m not trained on the data analyst uh something like that but because I learned something from German’s data I know that there is this kind of data that probably exists in our country but the form is in different way and it’s very row so we need to do something about it cleaning data cleaning and all the yes uh and about data protection I also to uh do interviews here. So it might be need a little bit bureaucracy process but it’s not really that difficult. You need just need to follow all the requirements and then you can also consult here with the the data protection uh officer and that’s very easy. You can just call them and they will help you and then they just like you will have like correspondence with the email and everything is fixed started. Yeah, that’s that’s you know the ease of doing research you know. Yes, it’s it’s it’s surprising because it’s not going to be this way. Yeah, it’s not going to be this way in my country. And I I think I think it’s for for you it’s going to be a very it’s going to be a big turning point, a very big turning point for you cuz looking at what you’ve experienced here and going back to Indonesia, like I I I really wish you well so you don’t break down in Indonesia. But I think um one thing you you you really stood out for me during your stay was how you took advantage of these conferences to meet up people. How were you able to do it? So yeah because they will pay everything for me for all the conference that I do every in in this fellowship they also give you give you a ch two chance no a chance or two chance it depends on how you use it to like do research stay in other institution in Europe Europe within Europe. Yes. Yeah. So you just need to contact them whether they can receive you for becoming your host and also becoming your supervisor during your research stay and that’s what I do. So I’m I consult with Angela whether I can have a research stay at BCF and fortunately Angela could help me contact with the person there uh holder and he is very kind that’s he he he he like he he can be my supervisor yeah and that’s why I can go there for the conference. Um I try to pit abstract for the conference and thankfully they received so I can go down. Well, so how about networking? Um because Humboldt provides a very broad very big platform not broad but it opens you up to a whole community about 30 30,000 30,000 alumni. How have you been able to utilize that alumni network? Aside the alumni network also the academic network you’ve created, how were you able to use them in the form of your research and your fellowship for now? Uh no, but maybe in the future uh because I really want in the future we have uh like cycling conference in Indonesia. maybe like creating bold colleague or something like that but for now I’m just like trying to develop a network of like transport specially so I really want a in Indonesia we can have a like connection and the talk with the other place in the world how is the development of how is it going what’s been done and what can we learn in this for for example because you are from the Africa we never have connection with each other, right? And I just know recently that people in Africa mostly are working. That surprised me because in Indonesia a lot of people has like using motorcycle so often like we have almost half of our population using the motorcycles. So that’s we are like kind of different but I think we can talk how how we I personally I don’t want that Africa experience the same mistakes that we create. Well well and I mean if you let let me go a little into your research if you look at the data Mhm. it’s because of the social status attached to not working. Mhm. So if you are having a moto, you have a car. Yeah. You are saying to me, you know, up and it’s the same for Africa. So everyone is gearing towards that um aim of owning a car. And if you remember the presentation I made where on the stomp Mhm. where working should be the priority and car should be the least priority. When you turn it Mhm. and you get to the Abraas theory of needs Mhm. It is walking use of bicycles like you know public transport and then owning a car becomes the highest pinnacle in the triangle. So everyone is targeting to own a car. Yes. But it should change the system should make it change you know. So I think yes going like you said for the networking um Africa Indonesia we have a lot of learnings to do. Africans are not working because of sustainability but because they are captive workers. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. They because they are captive workers. So I I I think it’s it’s a very good thing to explore the cycling conf. And I must say Sukma was part of the founding organizers for women in cycling. Right. Where women in cycling. Um, the one you had here. No, no. I just support Angela. She’s part of the organizers. Yeah. Yeah. No, I just support Angela for that. But she’s very weak. She’s just being meek. Yeah. No, no. But I think it’s a very good organization. I think that’s also the best thing in Germany, I guess, because the civil society is strong. The the people aware of what they need and what they need to do. and ask the government for it. For example, you also say that the Africa right now have the captive walking. Yeah. And for me, I think that when you have a lot of pedestrians, then your streets should be decided that way, not the other. That’s true. That’s true. Because that’s that’s the problem with Indonesia. Because when we have a lot of pedestrian like in the 1960s the government didn’t provide any infrastructure for the pedestrian that’s crazy because like we discussed in the office that time you have um a population where about 80% of your population is probably working. Yeah. and 2% own vehicles, private vehicles. Just let’s say a 5% make use of these informal public transport systems. In Ghana, we call them tro and taxis. But the whole transport system is designed to take care of the 7%. Yes. Instead of the 80% who are working. Yes. Yes. And I mean sometimes you just ask yourself like are people not thinking like but I mean we’ll get to that side later but it’s it’s it’s a very interesting finding I think we made from networking and finding out yeah and I think going forward for every humbled fellow or every prospective humbled fellow this is one thing you should consider getting networking networking is very important. I know what networking did to get me here because past humble fellows prepped me for my interview and that is how come I am sitting here today having this conversation with Sukwa. So you can imagine what lies ahead you know and um the fellowship grants you some the lifelong opportunity to always visit Germany to do research at the fellowship’s cost. Mhm. I know you are going back to Indonesia because you miss Indonesia, you miss home, you miss your husband, you miss family. No. Yeah, I I That is a factor. That is a factor. But do you do you see yourself coming back to Germany to do research again? Yes, I want I still want to continue my PhD and doing a lot of mo like more research on like active mobility especially and maybe road safety because I still thinks city in Europe has like road safety better than like football. So yes, I still want to do that and I also want to use the chance that they gave us that we can go back here for like research visiting. Yeah, visits. Yeah, something like that. I want to use that and like still uh have uh contact with all the people that I made here, the network that I made here because I think we can learn each other. Yeah. Uh for example in Indonesia we always say that we cannot be like European cities because they are uh developed countries and we are just like developing countries. No, it’s not that way because from what I experienced here for one year in Germany, what they did is that they try to improve themselves like day by day and then it’s accumulate by by a year and then it become a decades. That’s what they do and I think we can learn something from that. It’s not the perfect thing that we can do in like just one year. We can just like making like small step small step. Yeah. And I think coming when when we visit the museums in Germany and the rest and you see Germany even in the last 50 years realize Germany wasn’t like like this in some 50 years you know not to think of their dark history days but Germany wasn’t like this this way. Yeah. So if within 50 years they can restructure their whole system, the whole thinking and strive to be the biggest economy in Europe which they are in. What is the excuse? Mhm. For developing countries like Indonesia and Ghana, you know. So I think maybe as fellows we should also amplify this. But I mean our leaders know this. They travel to Europe for vacation. Yes. Yeah. But I also often hear that they always uh feel so tired walking here. Yeah. Because they not used to wait. So they mostly use their cars and like they get private cars to drive them around and all that. So we’ve touched a bit on your research and you know now let’s delve into it. [Music] Mhm. your research and I have a rough idea about it. I know it looks at how cycling could benefit countries economically. Yeah. And this was based on data gotten from Germany. Mhm. And you did some extrapolations with the scanty data from Indonesia. Mhm. And even with the scanty data you got, the amount of money Indonesia can make Mhm. from like people just cycling is quite a lot. Yeah, I think so. And given that you have a larger population in Germany, can you take us through your research? Okay. The idea is like uh actually we have said a lot the background is about the highest use of higher use of motorized vehicle for daily commuting. So in Indonesia because we have a lot of motorcycle cars. So our automotive industry like contribute to like 20% of the GDP. So it’s quite difficult to you know change our transport system that’s not rely on motorized vehicle. So usually the government say that cycling will not give the benefits the economic benefits for the city. So that’s why I’m trying to prove whether it’s correct whether it’s true and that’s why I do my research here and because here in Germany they have data better than us. That’s why ah let’s just try to calculate Germans that data out maybe I can find something about the economics benefit of cycling of Germany and then I can use it. How about Indonesia? Yeah. I I I want to ask not cutting you but does Indonesia produce cars? Uh there is like Japan industry. Yeah. So they open like factory in Indonesia. So you see, but you know, Germany has a lot of car brands. Yes. The BMV, Mercedes, Audi, Viv, they have the Porsche and Volkswagen. You forgot about that. Viv Fe. Yeah. So Germany being a motor hub Mhm. is still promoting cycling. Yeah. And having cycling contribute significantly to its economy. Mhm. Don’t you think it would just be an excuse for the Indonesian government to be like, “Oh, car automobile contributes 20% of our GDP.” So, I mean, you don’t produce more cars than Germany does, but Germany’s promoting cycling, but what’s what’s maybe more like a social cultural thing. So what that’s what I can say the difference between Indonesia and Germany and maybe I will go to Indonesia first uh because the people since like ‘ 90s 80 used to like motorize vehicles they didn’t even think about walking and cycling again and it the position is very low like in the like social class like you are poor then you walk and then you cycle. But here in Germany even though they produce cars they are they have like for example sports minded in Germany people likes to run. Yeah. I mean today, Sunday, hiking, everything that you know physically active. Yeah. Make them active like physically and that’s I think that’s uh the cultural thing that make them still using a lot of active mobility. That’s the case. And then I found from like a publication uh a research from Germany like it’s using the statistic uh survey that they did every 5 year four or five year they found that this change also happens because people here thinking more about the important of environmental sustainability and then the physical health for the people and also because when we uh a country have too many sick people sick people then it cost a lot for the country so they don’t want to have that so they the country try to uh encourage people to do like more walking activities cycling that’s the difference that’s not the case in Indonesia if people get sick because you know sedentary life activity yes and then yeah just sick and that’s it if you die then you die. Die. Yeah. You only live once. But I think uh one thing we always we discussed the other time about third world countries is the fact that um yes Germany we we may feel Germany has reached a certain level of development and can now think of sustainability but Africa hasn’t reached there. So issues of sustainability are not really important to people because even their standard of living is still poor. But one thing they failed to recognize is if you improve mobility issues Mhm. like congestion, you reduce car use, you reduce pollution, you are going to have an improved um quality of life. Quality of life. Yes. Then you don’t have to fall sick. Mhm. Now, when you do that and you reduce cars, you have more space to create parks. Yes. To create walkways for people to be able to jo Mhm. and the rest. So, it’s not even an excuse not to create this environment. No. Did you in any way see how urban planning Mhm. informs this lifestyle in your research? uh not very directly to my research but I I read several publication on that but I think that’s like uh the fund uh the foundation of you know to be able to create a cities that are sustainable sustainable and like supports people to walk to cycle it’s the the foundation if you don’t have it then you will have you will not have like people walking or cycling around you. That’s like a very crucial things to do. Yeah. So given that g given the data sets you worked on and the extrapolation you made for Indonesia and the figures you got. Do you think implementation should be should not be difficult for the Indonesian government? Because last time you said Indonesia has a lot of policies like almost is every year a new policy on cycling. I found it interesting. Why is it not why is it difficult for active planning to happen? It’s a really difficult question because it’s related with uh the culture back again the cultural the so the social value that uh your communities have your country have for example in Indonesia because we regards cars important that it shows uh which level you are in the society and then the pro your prosperity And it it actually influenced by how the government show them like show themselves in the public space. For example, in my country, the government official, for example, the head of the department will can get like uh an official car from the office and it’s usually very like very good like uh in in some ways if you are like u the head of the office then it’s it’s considered like you get a lanca you know. Yes. Yes. It’s happened. It happens. It’s it’s the same in Africa also especially Ghana. Yes. So how people uh the people in uh the pe the public thinks about those thing is follow they solve these things. So I want to show myself also. So that’s the case. If the problems I am sorry is inside the government like mentally how they value things then it will not be able to change easily. It’s about the value that you believe. I think it’s true because influence is is is a very strong factor. For instance, um so I know fellows who are planning to save to buy cars, you know, because they’re in Germany and it’s very cheap. But then for instance, I meet Angela. Mhm. Not because she’s the professor of cycling. Mhm. But she doesn’t use a car. M I’ve met some university key like top people who don’t own cars. Mhm. And then I asked myself these people are earning more than I do. Mhm. And they don’t even own cars. We are all cycling. Yes. So why would I, you know, why would I even have a car? Yes. And it’s not because you can’t afford a car. I mean if we go into our savings right now here in Germany I’m sure I’m sure most fellows can afford a car you know but the German system has created um an environment where you don’t need to own a car no you can go anywhere I think just by bringing yourself yeah just and you see your leaders I mean not all leaders use and most of them still do. Yeah. So I think it’s about influence the type of lifestyle but if you don’t portray a sustainable lifestyle you can’t impose it on the people. Yeah. because uh I think the most is this the most easier thing to say is that people need exemplary figures for that if especially the key figures uh in the government or in the private sector didn’t show that that that you don’t have like this kind of exemplary figures then that’s how people will think how people will uh will do like behave that’s I I think that’s the way because it’s like you know a kid I think teaching kids is the best way is like giving him like exampler example so he will see learn from the parents because daddy’s doing and mommy’s doing and it’s actually nice when I go cycling especially on Sundays over the weekend holidays and you see children like family cycling and you see little children also cycling yes and they grow with it yes but then it’s all because there’s a system and there’s an environment that supports it. This is not to say that people don’t own cars in Germany. People do, but it is it’s it’s an option. You know, you meet people riding the train, you meet people riding bicycle, walking to work, and it’s not like they don’t have cars at home. They have cars at home, but then they see the benefits it gives them. And most of the cars are even used for like long distance travels, family holidays, vacations and the rest. Maybe I can say uh the recent data from the uh survey in uh countrywide in Germany um there is very interesting results just in in the news in the newest publication the use of carbs is reduced. Yeah. So it decreased and people walking more and cycling longer distance. Yeah, that’s the most interesting things happened in Germany right now. So I think that’s a very possible even though even for Germany it looks like decades to decades to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Because changes could not be happen like it just like happen. Now, and the fun part is even automobile companies are also buying into the idea of sustainability. Yes. So, I think BMW has a bicycle. Yes. I cycle I cycled through the helm shower. Mhm. And I saw this shop. I think it was a Was it a BMW or Benz shop? They had cars and they had bicycles. They had bicycles. Yeah. I’m like, “Oh.” And I and I also once heard I forgot uh this story from but I think it’s from Germans one uh my colleagues or my friends here told me there is uh like um factory and truck factory something like that uh that uh change their production from the automotive vehicle to bicycle as it’s specially the cargo bike bike. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s a very surprising to me because so for those who don’t know a cargo bike, I would put a picture somewhere. It is a very it’s a very interesting bike. Like almost every German has a cargo bike. Like it’s so crazy. They use it for their parties, the beer, you know, importantly the beer, you know. My my my language teacher, my German language teacher uh didn’t have doesn’t have any car car. Yeah. She has like five bicycle for her family and in the smalls uh like part of the house there is you know the the cargo that can be connected connected to any of the bices. Yeah. Yeah. It’s very interesting for me. So it’s I think it’s a whole system and um the economic benefits. I I don’t want us to bore people with the science, the technical things, but what for you are the key findings which you think are applicable to developing countries since we have similar features when it comes to our transport system in terms of cycling. How do we convince people that see if you pack your cars, if we all park our cars and we decide to cycle, if we decide to walk to work or we decide to use public transport is going to improve our standard of living, maybe not now. Mhm. Because sustainability is not about the today. Mhm. Sustainability is about the future. Mhm. So if you can park your car or if you can probably even sell your car. Yes. And then take on a more sustainable form of transport and you’re able to save for your generation. That is good. Per your data. What were the key findings which you think we could use to influence change when it comes to I think uh maybe we can go through all the uh indicator that I use to calculate the economic benefits of cycling. So the first thing about physical health so when people cycling they get healthier so they have like better and longer years of living and then you will be more productive. Yeah, in the office you will not get sick too often. So you can use for example your leaves, your vacation leave for vacation, for leisure, not for getting sick on the bed. That’s that’s the thing like it’s uh for personal health and mentally we need like leisure like we need to we need to not work all of the time. German Germans take that very seriously because I was really surprised when on first May. Mhm. I mean I just took my bicycle and decided to cycle down from both straasa down to here. Mhm. And I just kept following the path. I didn’t know where I was going. But then I saw a lot of people cycling, a lot of people jogging and I was like wo. So it’s it picked my curiosity to find out where are they jogging to. Yes. And we at the end of the day going and coming. I cycled about 22 km and I mean I I was tired because it was the longest I cycled but I came to work refreshed. Yes. You know I felt quite healthy. I actually felt good and cycling has been quite a big part of me. So I I can I can relate to that because it builds your cardio also. Yes. you know your ties, you know, it gets really Now I think I can go like I will represent Germany in the next Olympics. Yeah, you can. Yeah. Okay, we’ll go to the next one. The next one. Before I go further, uh I I don’t want to forget about the emission reduction. It’s a lot because uh of course in the city we don’t want to experience like heat um heat waves. No heat effect to the cities. Yeah. So we it like have an effect that the the city will not be like so hot. Yeah. Especially we lives in the tropical area. I think that’s very important. We already have the sun hitting you and then Yes. And this is also could also change our mindset about how we design our streets. Is it necessary? We have like very wide street and without trees. We need everything in the tropical country. For example, in Indonesia is rainforest type of city. So actually we need a lot of trees beside the street. So we can still like cycle and walk very comfortably. Yeah. I mean with a reduction in emissions to it also contributes to the health. The first factor you mentioned because you don’t have to be inhaling. That’s the pollution. Yeah. Yeah. That’s the the next part is the pollution. Yeah. pollution is from you know the combustion of the cars and the second one is from the noise. If we heard about the the cars, it’s very noisy actually, right? But when you were cycling and or walking, then it’s it’s lower. The noise pollution is very lower and it’s good for your health because it didn’t put yourself in distress like your body in is not in distress. And then the next economic benefits is that um this is we go for to like more economically way like for example in industry um in Germany they have like cycling industry and it’s like have a job opportunity so people can work in this industry and it comes from for example from the factory until the the like the smallest thing like bicycle service because I understand that not all the people know how to service your bicycle and because the recent on the newest bicycle nowadays like electric bike it needs a lot of training some form of training to be able to handle it. Yes. And especially if we will have like for example cargo bike it’s also will be very different and we need like specific technician for that that’s the case uh in the in the industry sector and then we also will have like tourism in Germany they have cycling tourism and it’s growing it’s very nice it’s very nice yeah so you will have the route and people will buy uh from your stores, grocery stores or like restaurants and do like purchase. So it will like uh influence the tax of the city and then people will stay maybe for like long distance. So they will stay like 2 days, one days in the hotel or in some places. So it gives the city money. That’s the case. uh not everything is calculated of course because uh the size of you know if you make the part you it’s difficult to separate but that’s the idea. Yeah. Yeah. That’s the economic that the city will get from this kind of things. So um I know we’ve spoken intensively about the economic benefits where we are not just looking at the money but also the health benefits to the people where you can work longer be healthy and all. What do you think as individuals Mhm. we can do? Mhm. especially for those in Indonesia. Mhm. What can individuals do? Mhm. As the first step to get governments to act. Mhm. Because I remember my data I told you um they tell you there is no demand for cycling. Mhm. So we are not creating infrastructure for it. I I’m pretty sure there is the same thing in Indonesia. The same thing. They say there is no demand. So, how do we create the demand? Mhm. Individually, I know it’s easier to say, oh, park your cars and start cycling. But what do you recommend for individuals to do local actions to inform or influence politicians so that they create that environment for people to live long to earn better and then I mean yeah get to the city money. Maybe for the first thing is that you need to show off often that uh you saw that cycling is easy and you enjoy it and give you a lot of like enjoyment. That’s the first thing. So you can influence uh the people around you and then you can talk to maybe your neighbors, your friend. let’s go cycling together and like having fun not for like the purpose of advocacy to the government but let them enjoy of the joy of cycling that’s what uh I did in Indonesia for like in 2022 2023 they they like it and they actually want more and then after that the next step is to have like solidarity group that you need to advocate the it to the government by asking for budget for infrastructure. Yeah. Planning of course you need to have a plan if you want to have like best infrastructure things and do like the first step where you should have cycling infrastructure for the first time. That’s very important. and then asking the people maybe that have influence to the other communities that’s very important and working together because uh from what I see here in Germany that’s what I told you before they have very strong civil society that’s the the key like Mike like Mike’s group where they signed the whole petition to get yes that’s the case so if you don’t have that then it’s going to be difficult because it means that you only rely on the government that probably will not think about it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So last one. Mhm. Humboldt expects that as fellows we go back and make an impact. Now that’s difficult. That is yeah that is very difficult because with the topics we are choosing or we are working on for instance they have some elements of politics I think politics plays a major role in Mhm. in doing it because you can’t just get up and do something. You need to get those at the top Mhm. who make things happen to make things happen. Yes. you know for you two questions. What do you plan on doing? My plan on Okay. My plan on Secondly, I was told we don’t have challenges. Mhm. But we have the problems because challenges mean you can’t work through them. Problems mean you can work through them. So what are the foreseeable problems? you see Mhm. with regards to this and how do you intend to get around it. Okay. The I will answer the first question about what I will do. Um the first thing I do I will do like uh several visit to my friends to the cycling communities in Indonesia like to disseminate my research result. I will have the bigger one like in the webinar but I will then meet them in person on what we can do together and what we need to improve together because again from what I learned in Germany they have strong civil society and that’s what I want to bring back to my country Indonesia and like how we can make like stronger civil society in cycling in Indonesia. So I need to meet a lot of people and discuss with them. And I also thinking about is it possible for example cycling communities to have like uh research experts for example back uh like giving a backup to them. So they have like uh very databased uh or in very informed decision about cycling to so they can do better advocacy to the government. that’s the case because expert is also one thing that’s uh we need to consider when we want to improve our policy that’s I think that’s my plan to do and then foreseeable problems is that of course communicating with others is difficult I think that’s uh the case I don’t know because every communities every people have like different point of you. Yeah. And we need we it usually need times to learn and unlearn what we have learned before. I think the most difficult thing is just unlearn about what we understand what we believe especially if we talk about belief. Yeah. Yeah, that’s uh the thing and I think the most difficult after that step is that to meet the government whether we can unlearn together to learn together again. That’s the that’s the foreseeable. Yeah. Yeah. So I sincerely we we acknowledge or we know the challenges going which which which we are expected to or we are likely to face. Mhm. Um going forward, do you plan on getting the government directly involved in all this? But in order we are talking about local actions and it’s nice you see how people are actually cycling past us, you know, they’ve hired bicycles in their sight. How do you intend on making maybe the minister of transport aware of your research findings in the ministry level? I don’t know. I’m not really sure about that because it’s like the very top of it. Uh maybe in the city level I will go with that because uh I think it’s more easier with all the people on the grassroot level. we can work together and it’s easier to to be contacted. So we can meet and talk and discuss um maybe the first thing that we will discuss about what they actually want, what they actually need. Yeah. And what do they think about the future of our cities? uh because I think we need to ask ourselves includes the government the fundamental things that usually we will not like ask ourselves like what is it necessary to have like wider roads for whom and for what the more you expand the roads the more cars are going to get to fill them for how long are you going to expand yes and especially the government has really like limited budget. We we should be aware of that and how we can improve this. I will not do like a like dictate on something but whether we can work this together. Yeah. Yeah. That’s um the rough idea. I think also actually the government knows this problem. They know it. I mean they know it. They they always know the problem. But I always think the decisions are also politically bugged, financially bugged. There’s a there’s a problem going on in Ghana at the moment. I don’t even want to talk about it. I read in the news, I don’t know how it is, but I saw on a couple of WhatsApp statuses where the informal transport sector is saying they would only reduce the transport first because prices have reduced like significantly. They are only going to reduce transport first if the government reduces congestion. And I’m like if I am government and I’m to reduce congestion, you are the first people I’m going to remove because you are the ones causing the congestion. Yeah, it’s it’s it’s quite difficult. I think it because transport sector especially you work with a lot of people then you need to communicate a lot. Please don’t tire yourself out. Yeah. Because it’s very tiring. It’s a very long progress. I think that’s also the case in Germany. That’s why For example, in Germany, people here always say that the progress of cycling is very slow. Yeah. I think that’s because also one of the reason that you need to work with a lot of people. Yeah. That I think you need to change uh how their opinion on this these things and it takes time but it it possible because uh Germany for example is very different with the Netherlands. The Netherlands see cycling differently with Germany. In Germany, cycling also the same with our country. They see it like still like in a very low position socially. But in Netherland, in the Netherlands, it’s not. But you know, funny enough, I’m just thinking back when I was in primary school Mhm. we had this German in our class, Ike. Mhm. And Ike’s dad used to bring me to school on a bicycle. They were Germans. And his dad used to bring him to school on a bicycle. Like it was a normal bike. I think like this bike, but it had a seat at the back. Mhm. And they brought him to school. And I never for once heard anyone say I exper I don’t remember but I never for once remember anyone saying that these people are poor they don’t have money. Yeah. Because maybe they were white and because we see it in our communities you know in global south but here in Germany they still consider cars is like the the fairy tale of course. Yeah. Yeah. It’s just changing slowly because people especially the younger generations thinks differently. Yeah. From the like the older generation. I think like what serious data that says that you the genesis are more focused on um sustainability. Yes. Yes. Yes. That’s the the case. So I think yeah it’s quite different even though like Germany is like just very close to the Netherlands. Yeah. But the people is very different on how they see cycling. In the Netherlands people thinks like cycling in the top. So you can’t you can’t go on a date. I saw a video. You can’t even go on a date with a car in Netherlands. Like if you go on a date in a car, the girl sees you to be like too disrespectful and opulent, you know. But if you go on a bicycle, that’s when they I was told a couple of time. I think that’s why I bought my bicycle, but it’s not true. All the rumors say that I bought the bicycle to go on a date with a German girl, but it’s not true. But yeah, I mean, in Germany, if you want to go on a date, you don’t have to go with a car. You need to go with a bike. It’s not the girl who live. No, no. In Germany, you need to go wander. You need to go white hiking. You need to go vandazer again. Farad far, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s very German. Yeah. Very good word. All right. So any last words to fellows regarding your research and those who want to come um to Germany to do research especially on the Alexander von Humboldt fellowship. Yeah from based on my research I found that there is a lot of uh like potential uh to be developed from cycling especially actually give economic benefits to the city. So I think it’s a very legit effort, verifiable for us to go through all the advocacy to make our cities better for cycling. And for the people who wants to like apply for this fellowship, yeah, please brace yourself. You need to try hard because you need to answer a lot of question of course and then you need to develop your proposal very well and try to contact the supervisor. You need to research on them first and who should you should contact like take your time to do this not to be in a hurry. So please prepare yourself very well. I mean the applications always open in September. So you know it always opens in September. You should start even looking for um supervisors now because you have from now till February to submit your application. I mean from September to February to submit your application. So if you get your supervisors and they are they accept that they would host you then you start putting your proposal together so that just when the portal opens you are very much aware of it and just put it on your calendar that every day in September you’re going to check when it opens but I think for us the for those who applied um this year it’s on October it’s in October it’s open in October right after our selection process. Just when we finished our selection process, they had opened for to start looking for like a host now because for most fellows that was the problem. Getting a host was was the biggest problem. And mind you in September they go on holidays. Yes. Summer holidays. Yes. October’s the semester begins also. They will be very busy. They’ll be very busy till November and then December. Then December they go for Christmas. It’s very long holiday also until January and then the application ends in February. So you have like very limited time to really look for a host and then get all your proposals ready and all. to listen listen to an experienced tambushian and take advice like like really apply for this because see it’s a life-changing opportunity. I think I’ve met people. Yes. A lot of people. I’ve learned a lot within this time. Yes. The mere fact that I have international contacts alone is like it’s fulfilling you know you you get to meet people. You just pick your phone you know who to call people who you felt were like up there and were very difficult to reach you know. And I think the fun part about being a humbled fellow is the fact that maybe when you’re riding a train and they ask house vice and you take out your you know and oh okay for sure like you know you’re researcher and they see the humbled you know there is that also that level of respect you get even within the academic community especially in Germany Alexander funal fellowship is very respected yes very well respected so I think yeah It’s a very something yet that it it is one of the luxury brands when it comes to academia and research. It’s like it’s like wearing it’s like wearing a Prada or a Tommy Hilfiger or a Louis Vuitton you know that is what Alexand is and we work with it with our full chest and we are happy for the opportunity to be here and I think maybe you would like to say thank you too. Maybe one last note also uh for all the bachelor graduate please don’t be afraid to apply this fellowship because I’m still a bachelor degree I’m not master or like PhD so you have the chance but do your best for it okay I think that’s all for me uh I hope you all success for your application and you can go to Germany and have this experience by yourself thank you Manuel for asking me today to talk with you. It was I mean it was an honor to get to you because you are packing out like she’s literally packed out like Super is packed out. She’s just left with her plate come pick and go to Indonesia. But thanks for making time and sharing your experience with us and your research. I’m very sure um a lot would have learned from it. I myself like I said I’ve been following you since I came. I’m very sorry from since LinkedIn like I was like oh and you know when you finish your presentation Angela approach she was like so now what do you think I’m like I feel pressured I feel pressured you know I’m sorry dear I feel pressured but yeah I mean we would we would work through it she sets a very good base her research is very interesting is very educative informative and you don’t need to do much I mean it should be as practical as possible and that is all she did. So don’t get scared if you don’t have interest in research. Please try and develop that passion for research because that is what solves everything. Research solves everything. Don’t think it’s just for those who are in university and yes no even research can help you know which man or woman to marry and all that. very good research, you know. So, yeah. Um, until we meet again with another episode on research or maybe humbled, um, we say have a nice day and all the best in your applications. Bye bye.
1 Comment
Wonderfully conducted interview, Manny!
Wishing you all the best for your future videos—I’m looking forward to seeing many more insightful conversations from you. Keep up the great work!