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17 Comments
Interesting that the draft ended in 1972, eliminating the need, at the time, for C.O. declarations. I understand the draft may be re-instated soon.
I've learned from the 1914-1915 reform movement that began in Germany and it was called the German reform movement, the small group didn't want to break God's ten commandments and sin! And hence nothing has changed with the mainstream SDA, there are two SDA Reform movements one is a breakaway i thing based on the nature of Christ, i could be wrong there! There was some brethren arguing about something and split. But what i have seen out of the two groups is there is no issues with Bible and Spirit of Prophecy writings, where as Testimonies no longer was seriously taken as God's last day counsel for all SDA members. Eg . Marriage and divorce, this is too much in SDA conference churches
I find this sermon slanderous against the SDARM. you provided no receipts the reformers called the church Babylon. Any sensible person who is an independent or separationist doesn’t call the SDA church Babylon. The church doesn’t hold the doctrine of Babylon. Rather she is the evil servant of Mathew 24. He eats and drinks with the drunken.
i will translate it into italian
Good presentation, but he didn't explain why Joshua 6 doesn't apply. One those seven days was obviously a Sabbath. Not saying he's wrong, but some clarification is needed here.
Membership? Would a Seventh-day Adventist lose his membership if he became a regular soldier? No. While the church position is that of non-combatancy, the individual must make his own decision in this matter, and the church respects the conscience of those who choose to bear arms.
“Signs of the Times (Australia), January 1, 1972, page 25.
This was affirmed by, the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventist in full session, held in Battle Creek, Michigan, May 17, 1865. They declared: “We are compelled to decline all participation in acts of war and bloodshed.”
ELLEN WHITE’S COMMENTS ON THE 1861-1865 CIVIL WAR:
“I was shown that God’s people who are His peculiar treasure, cannot engage in this perplexing war, for it is opposed to every principle of their faith. In the army they cannot obey the truth and at the same time obey the requirements of their officers. There would be a continual violation of conscience. Worldly men are governed by worldly principles. They can appreciate no other. Worldly policy and public opinion comprise the principle of action that governs them and leads them to practice the form of right doing. But God’s people cannot be governed by these motives.” – Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 1, p. 361.
1914:
That the brethren of the General Conference were fully aware of the position taken by the European Division concerning the bearing of arms is clear in the following statement written by F.M. Wilcox, Editor of The Review and Herald, August 27, 1914:
“Particularly should the church of God today remember our European brethren who are now suffering adversity? Some have been forced into active military service; their lives are constantly menaced, and they are exposed to hardship and danger. Families have been broken up, and those left at home are anxious with fear for those who have gone to the front. The officers of some of our conferences and churches have been compelled to forsake their charges and join the national colors. It should be our earnest prayer that God will save His cause of truth during this trying period, and that He will safeguard the lives of His children. As to just what our European brethren should do under these trying circumstances only they alone in prayer to God can decide. Sometimes in our egotism and foolishness we feel that we can determine beforehand just what position we would take in every emergency, but we cannot know what we shall do until we are brought to the supreme test.”
A “Thus saith the Lord” was abandoned, and a “liberty of conscience” to break God’s law was put in its place. Had the church not yielded to worldly pressure, it would have undoubtedly lost its institutions and churches for the time being. But the course that was followed clearly demonstrated that the leading men and most of the members did not know Christ and His righteousness from personal experience. “And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.” Rev 12:11. Here was the crossroads, and worldly policy and government pressure become the determiners of church doctrine-of morality.
Evidence of the spirit of persecution manifested by the “former brethren” is shown in the following article, which appeared in a German newspaper in 1918:
“At the beginning of the war our denomination divided into two parts. While ninety-eight percent of our membership took the position on Bible grounds, that it was their conscientious duty to defend the Fatherland with weapons, and that also on the Sabbath, and this united position of the leaders was at once forwarded to the War Department; two percent, however, did not submit themselves to this united resolution and therefore had to be disfellowshipped because of their unchristian conduct.”
About 98% of the members in Europe were successfully drawn into apostasy, with only 2% remaining faithful. The leading brethren were responsible for disfellowshipping the faithful souls. These members did not walk out of the church. They stood firmly for the truth, not yielding or conforming to apostasy. And as a result of their conscientious adherence to moral principle, they were severely persecuted. Some of the faithful brethren were betrayed by their own leaders to the secret police, arrested, condemned, and finally martyred.
When the war eventually came to an end in 1918, there were two to three thousand disfellowshipped members outside the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
During World War I in Germany, Elder Oscar Kramer, a pioneer of the Reform Movement, witnessed the separation in the church. In his booklet, Rise and Progress of the Reform Movement, My Personal Experiences, he reminisces how faithful believers were disfellowshipped from their churches in Germany in 1914.
“Our elder, Brother Richter, was the first, or one of the first, to be disfellowshipped. Others named included Sister Riechers, Sister Schwarting, Sister Richter, Brother and Sister Hollman; and I believe also Brother Kuhlmann, our deacon. A little later my mother was also disfellowshipped, along with quite a few others whose names I cannot recall.
When these believers heard what was being done, they began to cry. It was heartbreaking for them, for they believed that the church had no right to act in such an unbiblical way. But still, we were cast out, whether we liked it or not. We loved the church beyond anything in this world, but we loved the truth even more. It was then that we began to have all-night prayer meetings, lasting many, many hours. How we cried to God to intervene and bring unity again with our dear brethren, whom we loved with all our hearts. But it seemed that the die was cast, and the way of return was barred against us…
“In the meantime, we were astonished to receive visitors from distant cities and towns. They came from all over Germany, and also from Austria-Hungary, etc. We could hardly believe it when they told us that everywhere scores of believers had been disfellowshipped by the leading brethren. In the Rhineland, two whole churches, elders and all, were crossed off the membership list – Wermelskirchen, where Brother Otto Welp was elder, and Coblenz, where Brother Woltz was elder. We no longer stood alone. In fact, there were hundreds who found themselves, practically overnight, cast out of the church which they loved with all their heart.”
1920:
In 1920, the President of the Seventh-day Adventist General Conference attempted to sound the death knell for the Reform Movement, saying that “it would soon disappear in the sand.” But since that time, the work of Reformation has spread throughout the world.
“Since the beginning of the war there has been a division among the Adventist people. The majority wanted to see the fundamental teachings set aside for the duration of the war, while the rest requested to keep the Saturday sacred even in times of stress. The opposing faction finally brought about the disfellowshipping of the followers of the old faith from the denomination.” Kolnische Zeittung (Cologne News), September 21, 1915.
Many experiences were made by the faithful few. At the close of the war, liberty was restored in Europe, and the members who had been persecuted and disfellowshipped from Seventh-day Adventist churches all over Europe for refusing to participate in the war found each other. They banded together and referred to themselves informally as the S.D.A. – Reform Movement. Their primary concern was to seek unity with those who had left the original platform of truth. Petitions were sent to the Adventist leaders, expressing the desire for a hearing where the General Conference representatives would be present.
Such a hearing was finally granted, occurring July 20-27, 1920, in Friedensau, Germany. To prevent misunderstandings, minutes (called the “Protocol”) were kept so everyone would have a complete report of all that was said and done. Seventeen delegates from the Reform Movement in Europe were selected to present to the council the position of those who had been disfellowshipped. To make the discussion plain and simple, four questions were asked:
1. “How does the General Conference stand with reference to the position taken by the leaders in Germany in 1914 toward the fourth and sixth commandments?”
2. “What proofs are brought to us that we have not, from the beginning, taken the Biblical path?”
3. What is the position of the General Conference toward the Testimonies of Sister White? Are they inspired? Yes or no? Is health reform still the right arm of the message?”
4. Are our message and people, according to Revelation 14:6-12, national or international?”
Elder A.G. Daniells, President of the General Conference, answered these four questions with reference to the General Conference position.
Representatives of the Reform Movement at the Friedensau Hearing, July 21-23, 1920
Front row, left to right: H. Beckmann, unknown, W. Spanknobel, Vermeulen. O. Welp, E. Doerchler, Balbierer;
Middle row, left to right: Herdfelder, unknown, freyer, P. Waldschmidt, Koch, Riek, C. Spanknobel;
Rear row, left to right: W. Richter, H. Spanknobel, F. Muller.
Efforts were made to reunite with the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Seventeen Reform delegates presented to the leaders of the Seventh-day Adventist General Conference, both in Europe and in America, the position of those who had been disfellowshipped during World War I. No reconciliation between the two groups was achieved at this meeting
The SDARM has never accused the SDA church of being Babylon. That’s a lie. No receipts either.
The following excerpt is quoted from Revista Adventista, an official publication of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, issued in Buenos Aires, Argentina, December 5, 1932.
“At this moment there are about 200 of our church members, including teachers, evangelists [workers] and lay members, on the battlefield. I have recommended to all those with whom I spoke before my departure that they take with them pocket Bibles or Bibles with the New Testament, and that they not forget to do missionary work, even in the trenches. … During these four weeks of my absence from Bolivia, being on a vacation in Mollendo, Peru, I heard that many of our teachers and evangelists had to leave their church schools and churches to march to the front to participate in military operations. … During the time that sons of military age are marching into the battlefield, the older parents and younger brethren consecrate their lives anew to God.
1933:
The following is a letter written by Reinhard Heydrich Deputy Chief of Gestapo concerning the Seventh Day Adventist – Reform Movement.
This document shows the government’s view of Reformers.
“On the basis of edict No. 1 VO of February 28, 1933, by president of the Empire for the protection of people and state, the sect of the “Seventh-day Adventist Reform Movement” is herewith dissolved and forbidden. (Empirical Law Journal 1, p. 83.) Their property will be confiscated.
“Violations of this order will be punished according to edict No. 4 VO of February 28, 1933.
“The “Seventh-day Adventist Reform Movement” pursues, under cover of a religious garb, aims which are opposed to the world view of national socialism. The adherents of this sect refuse to give the German salute. They declare openly that they are international and that they consider all men as brethren.
“Because the conduct of this sect will create confusion among the people, it became necessary to dissolve them for the protection of people and state.”
“[Signed] HEYDRICH
[Witnessed] Officers of the Chancery”
1937:
“From the records of the special court, Cologne, March 24, 1937. In Aachen, the special court for the circuit of the high provincial court of Cologne sentenced nine defendants to prison for up to six months because they admittedly belonged to the forbidden sect of the Seventh-day Adventist Reform Movement.” The accused attended meetings of this sect, took part in prayer meetings and evening worship, participated in prayer in private homes and acquired calendars of this sect.” – Kolnische Zeitung (Cologne News), March 24, 1937.
The International Mission Society Seventh-day Adventist – Reform Movement remained loyal to God-given principles. Their decision was: “We ought to obey God rather than men.” Acts 5:29. As a result, they were severely persecuted. Many brethren and sisters gave their lives for the truth’s sake. We thank God that He gave them strength to remain faithful unto death. Those whose lives were spared have kept the banner of faith aloft. The seed of those faithful witnesses is now springing up to bear fruit.
How can I be obedient to God and His request to love my enemies, if I take gun with intetion to shoot at my enemy. As Jesus have give us more light on 7th "you shall not commit adultery" He also give us more light on 6th comandment "thou shall not kill".
It is easy to understand but it is not easy to obey, especially for one who has depart from Jesus and His Spirit.
One who has abundance of His Spirit find it much more difficult to use that gun, than to put it away.
"hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?"
I like to see dr Vine not killed (silenced) but alive (speaking) at his Church😊
Well done Village Seventh-day Church..
From buttom to the top, not otherwise, not like papal sistem
Amen
Thank you. Very good.
Good to see you Dr. Vine !. I’M STANDING WITH YOU !!.
Amen. Soul provoking. Well expressed!
In Joshua 6 didn't use guns and didn't kill, they were carrying the arc of covenant and were singing.
Thank you for the insights of history when crisis come. Goes to show that church can disappear overnight.
Also thank you for the chart of events and vision of sis White.
I did not catch well the idea about the SDARM killing the prophet by not accepting the unpublished materials and also what was their problem with the marriage and health reform being in the same vision.
Marriage is for life, God never intended divorce, but allowed it because the hardness of human hearts.
Usualy the woman suffer in an unhappy marriage more than the man. Such allowance must have been for the protection of the women.