Interview: Michael Rogers – from the pro peloton to UCI administration… a life of cycling #TDF2024

On the eve of the 111th Tour de France start, Michael Rogers was in Florence to give a talk at the Becycle event about ‘Scientific Training, Pioneering, Innovation and Future’ on a panel alongside Uli Schoberer (inventor of the SRM power meter) and former pro cyclist Rachel Neylan. Beforehand I had a chance to chat with the three-time TT world champion – and winner of stages a the TDF and Giro d’Italia 10 years ago.
It was an impromptu interview with the Australian who has lived a life of cycling since his early teenage years. Now 44, Rogers has recently worked with the UCI as ‘Head of Innovation’ and he’s not enjoying the first hiatus from work in the cycling realm since the late-1990s.
It was going to be a quick catch-up and soon became a long discussion about a range of topics relating to the sport he loves, race wins as a pro cyclist, and also about some of the work he was doing with the UCI over the past few years.

– Rob

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Chapters
00:00 Introduction
02:17 Michael explains his most recent job
04:43 Managing safety in road races
06:53 Administration role vs racing days…
09:07 Links with myriad high-profile people in cycling, and memories of the racing days
10:16 Starting out with the Mapei cycling program in the late-1990s
13:05 Considering the significance of the Tour de France stage win in 2014
15:00 Watching the sport of cycling evolve in Australia during his career
18:11 The Olympic obsession in Australian cycling
22:21 Considering emerging cycling disciplines…
25:08 Mick’s role in policing some recent cycling innovations

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Music:

Glide
Neon Beach
SVVDN7DNCOTRI6KG

[Music] [Music] it’s the day before the Twitter France begins and I think that’s the first time I’ve seen this place without any people so that’s a you know good reason to get up at 5:30 in the morning and all right I’ve got bucket loads of content to share with you and well I’ll get around editing it now first up let’s go with an interview with Michael Rogers I got to know Mick back in the mid ’90s let’s say when he was just a little teenage kid growing up with uh a cycling family or ay a family that became a p family thanks to Pete Rogers and Dean Rogers his older brothers and well P Michael Rogers Mick Rogers call him what will but ideally by his name he’s a fantastic bloke who has uh you know shared this cycle Journey with me since I was but a young man in my 20s and now he’s helping shape the way that the sports run or he did for a few years there while he worked for the UCI before that he raised the bike and uh this is Michael’s story I hope you enjoy the interview it was completely and utterly impromptu but we sat down I said 10 minutes and then we went almost 25 so I’m going to might run it more or less for btim there’s no need to addit any of it we talked honestly and openly and frankly and I thought it was quite an interesting discussion if you like it um just bang a comment in below and let me know what you think cool thanks cheers bye Michael Rogers we finally got to catch up without the interruption of loud speakers and all sorts of things going on in the background which isn’t common for bike riders but you’re not a bike rider anymore you’ve been in admin for let’s say 10 years or most uh well I stopped in 2016 yeah so some yeah 8 years have already [Music] passed you’ve been with UCI for a couple of years but you’ve had well let’s say multiple gools can you just go through what that was all about and yeah so started uh with UCI in a in a technical role as head of say your bikes and clothing and and regulations around uh all technical elements and so covid uh started 20120 um moved into after about 12 months I took over the head of Road cycling MH uh so part of that remit was looking after you know the international calendar uh all the teams you know from the top of both women and men uh at World Tour level all the way down to Continental level so some 300 teams oversaw that um and then also with regards to race organizers uh so very broad role we had about I led about a team of about 12 15 people uh as well as the technical technical side so intense uh you know very uh not quite 24/7 but uh but close to it because there’s always a race going on somewhere in the world whether it’s in a different country or different time zone U so very intense work uh but I mean what a privilege uh you know really really understand um how the sport works I spent a long part of my career as a cyclist L say from the inside of the barriers looking out uh so it was it was definitely really nice to also see uh the other perspective from the outside in uh understanding you know the challenges of the team teams understanding the challenges of race organizers some of the difficulties they have of putting a course together you know and bringing together these events that uh from organization perspective uh are becoming more and more complex each year yeah we’re about to start the or the Twitter France is about to start in two days time yes and everyone uh likes to chime in with what ought to be done to make their race safer more efficient more popular blah blah blah but Road cycling isn’t done in a stadium so there’s so many elements to consider I’m just watching Florence get prepared and I just can’t believe the level of organization that actually gets pulled off oh it’s amazing you know and and it’s amazing that things run on time and and uh that that bigger accidents don’t happen you know not only from you know the the perspective of the Riders where there you know where there’s been quite an alarming increase over the last you know five six years of the amount of incidents but also outside of the race the amount of Spectators um you know one of the fascinating elements of of that I had no idea of before joining the UCI is what really goes into organizing a race some of those Logistics uh route planning um you know uh by by choosing a particular way through the city uh you know it’s if that’s not carefully planned it could potentially cut off half of the city’s access to hospital you get my point you know so there’s a lot of planning and and unfortunately sometimes um Solutions need to be found uh you know there could be a a direct straight road to the finish uh but sometimes you know once the local governments or or the local city planners get hold of that route and they really look into the details and look at the consequences of that particular route choice that could be the most efficient um there can be uh there can be situations where it you know cuts off as I mentioned earlier half the city to a hospital or or a million other different reasons so it was very fascinating you know learning that uh you know from nuci and and all the other intricacies there of the sport we met when you were still a junior I think you won uh 97 Junior in cyclist of the year and you got up and said that you admired the likes of Hank fogles and stuio gradian that you look forward to Smashing over the cobbles yourself one day you’ve done a lot on the bike you’ve been a professional in cycling well over half of your life now um when you compare your Administration role versus your writing role what uh you know I I know that you’ve moved on from Pro from writing as a as a professional but what would you pick now now that you’ve had hindsight to consider both careers well that’s a that’s an interesting question I I had a fantastic time as as a professional cyclist um young kid growing up in Australia as soon as I had the chance to go over to Europe I was there left home when I was 16 you know I I kind of I guess missed out on the normal path of you know having academic pathway studies going University and and acquiring skills during kind of more traditional methods I I guess I was opposite I grew up on the streets if I can say it that way as a cyclist um you know I had some hard lessons along the way but great lessons you know and and surrounded by you know great people you know uh some of the the names you mentioned earlier you know Stuart Hank Neil Stevens Alan Piper with just some of the people you know from Australian roots that that I came across and and and learned a lot from but outside of that there’s also a lot of people I my wife is Italian so uh I I got very uh into Italian cycling and and know and and had a lot of people to draw from us there as well so I don’t think I’d have it any other way uh I think the journey I would have done things differently of course with hindsight um but uh you know I still love the sport and uh you know it it gets me up every morning and uh it’s still a passion for me it’s still my DNA uh just from a a different perspective not no longer as an athlete but more of a admin there’s a few people I know who could pretty much drop every name in cycling for the last 20 years or so and you’re one of them I think about the people you’ve ridden with if it’s you Sir Mark cendes Sir Bradley Wiggins uh Albert contador uh I could we could go on and on and on about uh people that you’ve raced with against uh in in collaboration uh as Rivals what’s the thing from your career that um I guess uh if you have your your procycling dreams what uh memory comes flashing back as the fondest um I think there was many kind of periods of of you know just fun uh success and and and also on on the opposite side of you know periods of of illness and uh and children and you know that that uh that Journey that one goes through over you know 16 years of professional cycling as as as an athlete uh when I turned professional with mé um back in in 2000 2001 it was really my kind of introduction into into professional cycling it was Italian based team um you know Mr Mr Georgia squinty um the late uh of course George squinty very passionate person you know put together a I guess a development program was to bring up a generation of of professional cyclists and and you know treat treat them as young young kids which we were you know we were in our 19 19s and 20s or early 20s and and another great name Elder sassy um you know really tried to to teach us professional cycling as you know as a as a lifestyle as as a profession and it’s you know when you look back at those times you know that map a was just such an early adopter of what’s Happening quite a lot now with a lot of other teams you know you know your your little TRS your you know Vima Lisa bike newcomers uh Tudor they all have these development teams and now understanding that uh to develop Talent it has to come through a pathway so M was was very much on the Forefront of that and and that was just a privilege to be part of U you know very very lucky you know kelada philipo Pato Benny Isel uh just to just to name a few yeah cadel came along to the program charie with Julius uh from from Great Britain you know it was just a great great group to be of and we learned to to win from from day one uh the talent we had and and we learned to win bike races we we we learned to be teammates we we learned to live and work together so it was great and they were skills that I took on for the rest of my my career I was very fortunate enough to to ride with great teams quickstep you know High rde HTC uh had a great time at Sky with Brad Wiggins you know went tour to France with him and then the the later part uh with with contador uh and and and Peter Sagan and uh so yeah I was I consider myself lucky you know lucky and and uh because not everyone gets that chance to you know to live that life and and had that success that that I had personally but also as a team member that there’s a long uh list of Victories that you’ve had but it was also as a domestic that you really made your name but um it was in 2017 when you crashed wall let’s say virtual League of the tour to France and then 2024 or 2014 when you finally got the the stage wining Luan um does the Twitter France sort of Stand Out greater than the two stage wins at the jro for example or how does the tour compare with the other events that you’re for me for me the the tour was a childhood dream um those those are the you know the images that I grew up with you know watching on TV um so I I think for for for any young aspiring athlete or cyclist male female um and you know the Tour of France is just the Pinnacle of of of that side of the sport um of course there’s the World Championships Olympic games uh the julal they’re all important races just to name a few one day Classics of course uh but I think for for Australian athletes or Anglo-Saxon countries I think the tour to France holds a special place in inovant heart and uh for me to finally be able to win stage let’s say towards the back end of my career uh that was just a dream come true you know I’d been so close so many times and made errors or a bit of bad luck or or you name it um it took me a while to to achieve that dream which was uh and then for me once I had won a stage it was you know that was the the icing on the on the cake of my career and and from there I kind of just slowed down and and more dedicate myself to to other writers we’re covering off a range of topics I haven’t got anything scripted I just I know that you know I’ve followed your career well we’ve known each other since for a long time for a very long time and we’ve grown and we’ve watched um cycling evolve and certainly it’s tring cycling evolved like uh yeah the things that you’ve just listed in your accomplishments alone would never have been like even part of the conversation when we first met right where you see it going from here you’ve been because of the role with the UCI you came to the world championships in wenong you raced the world championships in jalong um is there scope for it to improve um on the competitive level in Australia and I mean you you don’t live there you you have a very European lifestyle but you still see that there’s growth opportunities in sport or is cycling’s future in participation well there’s a part of me that would like to see a huge part of me is CRA of course and and um nowadays I I live the most of my time in in in Europe but you know there’s a definitely a soft place for for for me in Australia and and and the the continued development of of the sport on the elite side um I I think the key to that really sits with with talent and we have lots of talent in Australia you know we we you know the unfortunately the the NRS system you know and and racing road racing uh in Australia has has I think lost a little and there’s various reasons for that uh you it’s very very complicated to organize races now with with all the requirements you know of police and insurances and a million different other reasons safety um and uh so seems to me it’s dropped off a little bit I I I really do feel the system has changed also a lot in the way that when I grew up there was a lot of you know systems uh you know one stands out Shane Bannon you know people like Brian Stevens you know there were constantly taking athletes uh to Europe introducing them into uh I think not only Elite racing but also you know what it’s like to to live in Europe uh what it’s like to be an ordinary person when you’re not racing to return to an ordinary day life and and and be able to manage yourself in in European culture so um i’ really like to see those kind of programs really develop and and if I take that long-term view I think that’s where the uh the money is is best invested is is in grassroot programs um of course the Olympic program is is very important but I personally like to see you know more focus on uh on on grass’s development because that’s where the talent will come and the more Talent we have the more access to you know to potential medals that are I get frustrated in an olympic year was pretty much right up until the day of competition and then I love love it uh you know my heart lies with the team Pursuit you’ve had success in that discipline yourself at Comm games level blah blah blah I mean you’ve sort of got me you know triggered a few thoughts of topics that I try to avoid these days because I sort of get frustrated with the obsession of the Australian Federation uh of cycling on the Olympic agenda is there value in that I mean that’s sort of more or less continuing from what you just talked about but um their justification for the the Quest for Olympic gold is that it inspires people to write a bik but surely riding a bike inspires people to ride a bike I think we’re talking about a very elite you know the the real kind of uh Pinnacle of of the iceberg M team Pursuit it’s always been the kind of blue ribbon event a lot of investment goes into it um if I put put my my kind of previous UC I had on um you know I think there’s there’s there’s quite a few concern concerns about the direction you know of such Elite events you know they’re going and and the the amount of investment that needs to uh be fulfilled to to be able to stay competitive um you know the the evolution of the sport and aerodynamics uh you know science uh the technical elements of the sports uh is very costly to make athletes uh to make athletes go very fast and and I think looking on the on the longest term there’s definitely I think some concerns about the cost of staying competitive at such a high pical uh competition such as such as the team Pursuit where it’s just pure science you know uh uh you know all time events are very susceptible to you know to engineering and um whereas Bunch events or group events there still is that sense of of very um and you know the the surprise or or what if scenario you know if you look if you look at a odd Road Race uh it’s it’s not so reverse engineerable because you still have those uh cases of variability I I don’t know maybe cross winds or corners or something that creates a bit of variability in in in the event um so I think it’s not only a question for strain cycling I think it’s it’s a broader question um for for the sport in general is you know are we are we putting ourselves as a sport in a position where only very few can stay competitive and is that good for the sport or not and and that was always one of the the difficult things for for the governing body was to you know where do we set the line of what is too much Innovation what is not enough Innovation um and and that’s a tricky that’s a tricky discussion uh you know bringing everyone to the table and and uh finding common ground so we can allow Innovation uh but also not in let Innovation going away that younger families or par young parents trying to get their children into the sport whereas they can’t stay competitive because they haven’t got uh sensor ABC or you know or some one of the you know the latest Innovations so a topic fascinating for me um and a topic that probably to you know to the Lo the medium to longer term that needs to be resolved otherwise we may find ourselves in a position where you know the cost of saying competitors if just too high not only for individuals but also for Nations to to to consider the UCI position that you had uh in the time that you were there they’ve essentially introduced the gravel world worlds um they sort of want to have their talents in every element of cycling and that’s uh you know understandable they’re the governing body of a sport but um the Edinburgh worlds uh I think it would have been exciting to be there it was difficult to manage I reckon for the media and for a lot of national teams as well was their Merit in that experiment and you know we see mountain biking Prosper to a level which is like the crowds are insane same with with with with particular Road cycling events what seems to be from your experiences in AA in Switzerland the the priority for the government for the governing organization is one discipline given more uh pre uh you know more uh support more uh backing more well the the UCI has a mandate of of developing cycling and that’s a mandate given by by the international Olympic Committee you know to to kind of govern cycling in a way and part of that is is getting more people on seats and uh on B seeds that could be that could be BMX BMX it could be cycling East Sports all those seats have the same value of course you have your more traditional more developed Sports such as as Road cycling uh track uh you know uh I think uh track I think cycling at the Olympic games has the third largest quota of athletes of all sports and that’s only behind swimming and and Athletics so um I think I think we more disciplines will will come up um over over time but how they get divided you know which backsides go to seats which seats I don’t know uh but numbers are increasing I mean cycling is doing great cycling’s really on a worldwide scale uh you know here here in Florence a couple of days before the the the tour and start and you know the amount of people here for the race walking around the city is just astronomical so cycling is doing great as a as a participation sport um I think the industry has been through of course a tough time time the last couple of years but you know things crossed that that starts to turn around and but when I look here in Florence how many people there are I think it’s encouraging there’s a team presentation to go to there’s many other things to do while we’re here but we’ve I really appreciate you taking 25 minutes of your time to you know just run over a few bits and pieces I will just I I really need to ask this question because it’s sort of pertinent to the times but um you were in charge of some technical innovations and we had a coffee the other day and you said look there has to be limitations on bicycle design you uh you and Adam Hansen were were cohort in trying to uh minimize some extreme positions that have come about in recent times and you made the comment if we didn’t start if there wasn’t limits on a bike people would be racing the Twitter France on recumbent um can you just you know like give me one minute worth of of commentary about that just we understand that kind people are in 2024 hypocritical they have an opportunity to be anonymous and and offer commentary online and um I just wonder how you respond or what you get yeah sure well I I I I will make commentary about the elite part of the sport which is you know the professionals and and the competitive side of the sport where where performance is the leading Factor of of any decision that’s made whether it’s by cyclist uh whether it’s made by the performance directors or or the team management so it’s it’s uh a lot of the time it is the performance element that is that is kind of draw driving the evolution of the sport you know if if we look into pure investment you know in the sports a lot of that has gone into uh performance you know if we if we look at uh the various segments of of the sport I don’t have any raw data but you could probably say that you know 75 70 75% of that kind of investment has has gone into the performance of The Athlete and again I’m talking about the the elite side of the sport um now that’s come at amazing experience watching races uh higher speeds uh you know bigger gearing uh you know fantastic bike design um but on the other side of the sport you know there’s maybe some other things or other topics that have not evolved at that same speed and and and a lot of those can be safety you know we’ve seen a a huge spike in the amount of crashes that’s going on you know in in again the prop pelons but I think also in lower levels um and a lot of those are behavioral uh you know of of I don’t only you know highlight the Riders but kind of anyone in the race Convoy you know they there may be the time where we very soon have to look at you know that regulation may not be able to uh solve the entire problem um and and you know there has to be behavioral changes as well uh so that’s something the sport has to go through uh but to to answer I think your your question directly about uh you know that there needs to be some kind of Regulation uh there is regulation of course there technical regulation set by the UCI and and of course they’re evolving uh but I I would say the evolution is probably outpacing the regulation which is common you know normally innovation in the world outp is uh you know the the regulatory body so but there’s very smart people you know at the table and it takes time I think we need to be careful of also uh you know uh jumping to very very quick uh decisions we really have to understand the problem uh first because some you know I was talking to some people the other day they said it’s easy we we just you know widen tires and and you know have every one returned to uh you know lower profile wheels and I’m not sure that’s I’m not the sure that’s the solution uh because wi tires are now proving to be faster than skinnier tires whereever were so you know by introducing you know uh that regulation you could actually increase speeds so it needs to be a very broad uh you know discussion and and un and some of these things take time like I said we could go on and on and on but we’ve covered a hell lot territory thanks we get out for that ride one of these days like we did back in the olden days thanks Rob yeah thanks [Music]