Mark O’Brien, a former professional footballer, shares his inspiring story of perseverance and resilience. From a young age, Mark had a passion for football and excelled in the sport. However, at the age of 16, he was diagnosed with a serious heart condition that threatened his life and his football career. Mark underwent a risky surgery and had to make difficult decisions about his future in the sport. After retiring from football, Mark faced an identity crisis and struggled with depression and anxiety. Through counseling and self-reflection, he learned to find gratitude and be present in the moment, which helped him navigate the challenges of life after football. Mark discusses the challenges he faced during his recovery from open-heart surgery and how he overcame them. He talks about the support he received from his family and the importance of having people who believe in you. Mark emphasizes the need to reframe setbacks as opportunities and to have a positive mindset. He shares how he approached his rehabilitation and the mental struggles he faced. Mark also discusses the impact of his retirement from football and the emotional journey he went through. He highlights the importance of accepting and speaking about one’s struggles and seeking support. Mark O’Brien shares his journey of resilience and self-acceptance after undergoing open-heart surgery. He emphasizes the importance of speaking openly about one’s struggles and finding support from others who have experienced similar challenges. Mark discusses the power of vulnerability and how it has allowed him to connect with and inspire others. He also talks about his book, ‘Two Hearts,’ which chronicles his life and the lessons he has learned. Mark reflects on some of the biggest moments in his football career, including scoring a crucial goal for Newport County. He concludes by sharing his current work in football and his passion for helping others.
Takeaways
– Passion and perseverance can help overcome challenges and achieve success.
– Facing an identity crisis after a major life change is common, but with time and self-reflection, it is possible to find a new sense of purpose.
– Gratitude and being present in the moment can bring joy and help navigate difficult times.
– Sharing personal stories and experiences can inspire and connect with others who may be going through similar struggles. Having a strong support system is crucial during challenging times
– Reframing setbacks as opportunities can lead to personal growth
– A positive mindset is essential for overcoming obstacles
– Accepting and speaking about one’s struggles is important for mental well-being
– Seeking support and counseling can help in the healing process Speaking openly about one’s struggles can lead to self-acceptance and connection with others.
– Vulnerability is a powerful tool for inspiring and helping others.
– Finding joy in the present moment and enjoying the journey can lead to a more fulfilling life.
– Memorable moments in one’s career can bring a sense of accomplishment and pride.
– Helping others and making a positive impact is a fulfilling way to live.
Learn more about Mark here:
Mark on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mobrien1992/
Get “Game of Two Hearts”, Mark’s wonderful book here: https://www.morganlawrence.co.uk/product/game-of-two-hearts-mark-obrien/
Visit https://hechangedit.com to download the app today!
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Welcome to he cast the official podcast of he changed it as always I am Mike Chisholm as always I am so excited to be here and have conversations with compelling guests around the world of men’s mental wellness with that kind of a flavor and and and the story of life. We all have it. It’s individual for everybody. Everybody has a story that they can contribute. It’s it’s amazing and and when you can bring somebody on here who has had a rich life and and much experience within that life and then you can add the drama of sport. it. Boy, is that ever the alchemy for an incredible conversation and we have it today. Mark O ‘Brien, a footballer, soccer for all those of us in North America, but a footballer extraordinaire, cream of the crop, one of the best. He has released a book and he’s come here to join us on on he cast his unbelievable story of perseverance and athleticism and and and and perseverance part is the part that gets to me the way it does. Game of Two Hearts, My Life in Football and Beyond is the name of Mark’s book. But he’s not coming here to plug a book. He’s coming here to tell a story. And boy has Mark had an unbelievable story. Become a, you know, it’s the age of 16 years old, going, leaving Ireland to go and play in England. and, and, and having an amazing career throughout it, we talk about that. We do talk about, we get to the, we get to some of the, some of the football highlights at the end of it, because his story is unbelievable. When he’s 16 years old, has a condition with his heart and, and, and, and gets to a point where he’s playing on borrowed time. And, and, he goes through his life and the adversity and how he dealt with the adversity, the things that he learned along the way. And it is a hell of a story. He’s just as charming guy. who has learned how to take things that have happened in his life and turn them into a massive, massive source of inspiration for people. It’s the textbook. Mark is the textbook example of what he changed it is trying to be about where we can relate to each other and we can share our stories and we can inspire each other throughout them. And I mean, the nuggets, to get your notepads out and take some notes, life lessons that are in this episode are just incredible. So. Mark O ‘Brien, we’re really, really excited to have him on there. If you haven’t downloaded the Heat Change It app, what the heck are you waiting for? Please go to heatchangeit .com. Find the app of your device, download it, and join Heat Change It as we are, we’re going to the moon with this thing. And that’s, it’s so exciting to be a part of what, what Candice and her team are doing. So, without further ado, Hecast, the official podcast of Heat Change It is proud to present Mark O ‘Brien. Mark, I am really, really honored and excited that you have taken time out of your insane schedule to come on to he cast today. You have a story and you know, it’s funny because sport there’s the drama of sport and and and there are so many stories within sport itself and and unlikely things that happen and and there’s just the drama of sport is an unbelievable thing. But then when you take the drama of life that happens to us and combine it. with sport, it becomes something different. It’s one of those things that it’s a lightning rod of inspiration. And I can safely say that that is what you are. If you would have gone back, like I want to get to your story, people need to hear your story, but let’s just go back and think about say 12 year old Mark, before any of this sort of started and you look at where you are right now. Do you think that that kid could any way have fathomed what your life would become? both through sport and then life after football? Do you know, realistically, no. I think 12 -year -old me had this plan in my mind that I love football, I’m going to go play in the Premier League and this is what I want to do, I’m going to go play for Manchester United. And that is literally like I had the dream, sat down and football was all I wanted. But I think when I look back now through everything, I don’t think anybody can predict like the things that went on and the twists and turns and like… the way I call it, it’s like the roller coaster of a life that I’ve had. I don’t think anybody is able to like kind of comprehend anything that went on. So you kind of have to deal with it in the moment and deal with it at the time. And luckily enough, I had the right people around me as well as I had the love for football, which then propelled me into a lot more of a distraction, I would say, from everything that was going on. But yeah, if I had to look back when I was a kid to the way my life turned out, I think… I wouldn’t have expected even half of what happened, let alone everything that went on. And all of this, of course, in Game of Two Hearts, your book, and the entire story is there, but you telling your story is so compelling the way you tell it now, and you’ve basically gotten into a place where your story, in many ways, kind of dominates your life at this point here. I mean, and I want to get into it. Did you excel early? Were you one of those kids where it was like, yeah, there’s some special, there’s something special here in the alchemy that makes up Mark O ‘Brien or was it one of those things where it was more like a Michael Jordan thing and it was like hard work, hard work, hard work and you rose to the top through the work ethic that you put to it. To know what I was kind of a bit of both, but at the same sense, I think when I milled away from Ireland and I milled away when I was 15 and so, When you go over and play football in England, it’s one of them things as a 15 year old, you don’t know what to expect. And I was lucky enough to make my debut at 16. So I was still a kid and I got to play in Darby County’s force team. So the way I put it into perspective is the year previous to that, in that summer, I was playing down the local park with my friends and the old team. And then the next summer after that, I was playing in front of 22 ,000 people. So like it was something where… It was kind of like the world was at my feet at the age of 16. People expected a lot. People had a lot of hope on my shoulders. But all I literally had was, and I just, I thought of myself, I was an average footballer that just wanted to give everything. I was just in love with football so much that it was my main passion that whether I had to move halfway around the world away from Ireland to go play football and knew that that was going to be my job, there was just nothing that was going to stand in my way. And… I think the fact that I got to fulfill that and become a force team member at the age of 16, I kind of just took everything in me stride. Like, so it was one of those things that from an early age, I knew exactly what I wanted. I got a taste of what I wanted. And then I think that’s what kind of drove me through again, the ups and downs that kind of followed after I made that debut. So I think afterwards, I think what went on was just something where, Hard work did pay off a lot for me and getting my head down, but it was more than just the passion and love that I had for football. I didn’t care where it was or what I was doing. If I was kicking a ball every day for the rest of my life, I knew I was going to enjoy my life. I knew I was happy. And again, I think, yeah, from a young age, I think football was something that just people had a lot of expectation on me. And I was hoping that I was going to be able to fulfil that, but I never really took that in. I kind of just was… happy playing football. So I never paid attention to it and added pressure to myself, where everybody else was thinking that he’s going to be on going on to play and be the next best team. I think for myself, I was just somebody that was literally a kid enjoying football. I, it’s such an interesting thing. So I’m Canadian and in Canada, hockey is such a massive, massive culture. And you see some of these great players that come from all over the nation. And it’s a similar, instance where the ones who really start to rise to the top early, you know, end up being boys playing with men and and and and you know, the the the learning curve to that and like you said, the pressure the learning curve to that is unbelievable. When you’re a 16 year old literally going and playing in, you know, with men fully fully formed dudes or or or at least more formed guys in front of that crowd. Could you keep that spirit where you just was a kid that just wanted to play football, just wanted to kick the ball around, or was there a learning curve to that, all that new adulting that you had to do? Do you know what I’d say? There was an element of both. I think when you start playing along in a men’s senior game at such a young age, I think it allows you to mature quicker. You have to speak up for yourself. You have to kind of gain your own voice because again, I was a 16 year old when I moved away and like speak when spoken to that’s that’s the person that I was like I wasn’t an outspoken kid I wasn’t the overconfident person I was kind of like if you speak to me I’ll talk but I don’t know what to say and yeah that kind of show you nervous kids so in all fairness to it it was something that I say football was like and I used to tell people this a long time ago football was like an alter ego for me it was off the field it was like I wouldn’t speak to nobody and people would think he’s this like shy person, nervous around people and stuff. And then once I was on a pitch, whether you were 35, 25 or 16, the same as me, I was doing the job. I was loving what I was doing and I was happy. So people got to see my personality showing through and my football to an extent done the talking. Whereas I always felt as though I was a voice. I was someone who would like to lead. I was someone who was very aggressive in what they do. So even though I was 16, I was still able to speak to grown men like they were the same age as me because it was football. But once you come off the track and a bitch. It was a universal language. You all knew it. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And once I come off the training field, then it was like, well, where’s that kid gone? Like I was back to being all the shy kid again and I wouldn’t speak. So. he’s playing PlayStation in the room. He’s playing video games. And that is literally it. Like it was literally that. And again, football. gave me a confidence. Football gave me a voice and football allowed me. So when again, I went down onto a pitch and I’m with a force team and I’m with a group of men and you have to speak up for yourself, I could do that. And then off the field, when they see how well my football is going, then they start integrating you a little bit more and they speak to you a little bit more and that allows you to talk back. And then all of a sudden your confidence starts building and things start growing. You start learning to speak for yourself. So there was always an element of it, but again, I’ll always go back to it. That football is what gave me a life because I moved away from Ireland at 15, away from my family, away from my friends, away from everybody. So it was a bit like it was a massive change. But at the same time, football, again, with being that distraction, allowed me to do that. And I never even thought twice about moving away. Now, if you ask a 15 year old to move away from home now, they’d be thinking that’s never going to happen. Whereas for me, it was like, right. put me halfway around the world and that’s what I’m going to do. So I think when I was in football, again, it was that alter ego moment, put me out on a field and I’d tell anybody what to do, take me off the field and that allowed me to then grow as a person, being amongst men and stuff like that. So again, I believe like that football from breaking in at that age, it taught me so many lessons where I was able to kind of develop and I grew up probably. was beyond me years as you call it, like somebody where I’m a 16 year old, but you put me out on the field, I’m like a 28 year old. And you come back off and that’s where people were able to kind of differentiate between the two. Cause then they’d see me on the field and think this kid is really good. They’d see me off the field and go, he’s actually just a real 16 year old. Like it was, it was that kind of realization for a lot of people. But again, like you say, football, football gave me a lot of confidence that it allowed me to grow and develop into being what I am today. Okay, so when we do these shows, one of the things that we love to do is of course take tangible things that folks can apply to their lives. And I’m hearing two of them right there. number one, if you get thrown, if you’re a fish out of water and you get thrown into a situation, stay grounded, you know, stay with what you know, that kind of a thing. And the other thing that I think is really important that guys in their forties still don’t know how to do sometimes is be an advocate for yourself and to be able to stand up for yourself. And, and, and that’s a, to hear you say that, you know, at that age to learn how to be an advocate for yourself and not just sort of, you know, sit into the background of an intimidating situation. I think that’s a really valuable piece of evidence. Was there a learning curve to that? Did it take you long to kind of get to the idea that you could stand up for yourself in that situation? Did you have to give yourself permission for that or was it just one of those things that was natural? It came quite natural, but again, it was a slower process. It wasn’t that now that I’m playing football, I’m in a force and I’m going to be this outspoken and flamboyant type of person. Like I was always a very level -headed type person. So when I got home to Ireland, it was just go back, be with me mates that I’ve had for the last 20 years. And that was always me. So there was never any chance of me being able to, again, I think when you get what you get at such a young age, especially in football. you can get carried away with yourself. You start becoming outspoken and then people’s perceptions start changing of you. Whereas I just took it in me stride, but I knew, like as me confidence was growing, I could feel it was growing. I could feel it was getting that little bit better. And if something had to be said, well then I found myself going, actually, I know I will say it because I became more comfortable with the people I was with. Like when football done all me talking at the beginning, I allowed me football and me profession to do the talking for me. And then afterwards, what came of that was then senior members of the team would then, like you say, start speaking to me. And then it allowed me to then come out on my shell that little bit. Then you have to do, let’s say, an initiation song. And I’m standing in front of a group of men and I’m having to sing a song. So like, it’s all them things that are like part of the whole learning where you’re coming out on your shell just that little bit more and little bit more. And then the more you come out on your shell, the more expectation is put on your shoulders. Cause people start saying, okay, you’ve done a year of it now, now we need you to be better. Now we needed to push on, now we needed to keep improving. So it was never kind of rest on what you needed to do. It was more of the facts of you just evolve with the time. It was never like just right now I’m in it, now I’m going to just start speaking. So you kind of learn that as I go along that the longer I was doing it, the better I was becoming because of it. But yet I would still always have the humble side of literally go home to Ireland, come away from football and I’d still be Mark from back home and back home in Dublin. I was never marked a footballer and I’d go and start making new friends and doing new things. It was always, this was just me and football was my job. This is me as a person and this is my life. And I never allowed it to get too high with the highs, but I never allowed it to kind of get too low with the lows. You just had to kind of take it along as I was going. And again, it comes back to at 16 when I had to go through such a tough time. It kind of gave me a love for football and appreciation that enjoy it for what it is and accept it for what it is. And you know what? Keep enjoying and proving whatever comes your way. It’s going to be a massive games of opinion. One opinion is all is never going to be the same as the other. So if we have an opinion of myself and I like what I do, well, then just carry on learning. And that carry on learning was allowing me just to still be me in a football environment. You know, I love I. The idea of what you’re talking about here is something that really touches the, the third rail. It’s a lightning rod of, of what he changed. It was all about, you know, when my wife and her team started, he changed it. And she did the big deep dive into men’s mental wellness and where, where, where men are at. And one of the things is an identity crisis. There are so many guys who hang their hat on, on, on what they do for a living, what they’ve accomplished, what, you know, and, and, and they, they do exactly kind of the. opposite of what you were talking about here. And, and, and when you get an athlete, for example, sometimes an athlete who they play at a very high level, but maybe they don’t get to, you know, the promise line or they get to the promise line and their career ends. They don’t even know who they are because they literally hung their entire identity on what it was that they do. And hearing the fact that kind of organically along the way, I’m sure there were lessons along the way where you had to kind of learn that and you had mentorship, I’m sure, and coaching and people directing you. That being said, and I’m just assuming those things, but in most sport, that seems to be the way it is. For you to have that ability out of the gate is an unbelievable blessing that your identity wasn’t that you were marked a football player, that you could go back and be just you. and stay grounded that way. That is an amazing thing. You’ve got a lot of guys out there who their job is their life. And when they get back home or God forbid, you know, that job ends or they, you know, get some sort of an injury, they don’t even know who they are anymore. Did it stay that way up until, you know, we’re getting ahead of the story. I want to get to the story itself, your story itself here in a minute, but I’ve got to know as you moved into the phase that you’re in right now, Was there any identity crisis whatsoever or has it been a fairly smooth transition? No, there was like, as you were speaking there, that was exactly the same. There was a massive identity crisis. There was a massive football was my everything. And I think to try and gain out of everything that I had in football, I completely lost myself. I lost who I am, what I am. I didn’t have that purpose anymore. Why am I still living away from home? Like I only moved away to play football and now what am I doing with myself? Like I’m not a footballer anymore. Like I’m not, again, Mark the footballer. So like it was quite difficult I think for a good two, three years after retiring. I was always struggling. And I remember like I spoke to a lot of people. I had to go through counselling. I ended up having depression. I had panic attacks. I’ve had… anxiety, like I’ve had all these different things due to other circumstances as well. But as well as just the fact of I didn’t have any distraction anymore. Football was my mental distraction. Football was my, again, everything for other reasons. And now that I don’t have that, now it’s right, face everything. Now everything that has been going on in your life, now face it. And I didn’t know how to face it because I couldn’t go out and play a 90 minute game. I couldn’t go out and train every day. I couldn’t affect anything in football. There was times that I contemplated that I’m just going to leave football, go home to Ireland, wrap myself in a shell and not come out. And that’s me for the rest of my life. And again, it was the more I just kind of chipped away at it. And I just kind of accepted it because the more people I spoke to who were in similar positions to me years down the line, it kind of allowed me to go, well, these people on the stand. And I was always told that, do you know what this is going to take? a lot longer than you expect. This isn’t an overnight cure. This is something where you have to accept you’re not Mark the footballer. You’re going to have to accept that you’re just Mark and your life isn’t over. But at the same time, it was like the simple things of somebody saying, what does football make you feel? And I got told and I answered it with it makes me feel strong, powerful. I was a leader. I was fit and healthy. I felt as though like I was standing with my chest out. I was confident. And now all of a sudden I’ve got none of that. I’m gone. I have no confidence, I haven’t got anything to train for, I’ve got nothing to stay fit for, I’ve got no end goal, my purpose is gone because that’s all I’ve ever known. And it was somebody who said to me that, well, put it this way, it was you that made your job successful, it wasn’t the job that made you successful. And when they said that to me, it was more to the point of football could have been just an easy roller coaster or an easy life. due to the fact of it was me that made it successful. My qualities, football didn’t make me powerful, football didn’t make me a leader, football didn’t make me these things. It was me that made that role because there’s other people that don’t have that. And then I started to realize that, okay, right, well, now it’s just about, okay, build it all back in little small building blocks along the way. And again, I always used a whole kind of mentality for myself. It was all that one step at a time. Like it was literally… One, I didn’t want to get out of bed because I didn’t have training to go to. Then it was, OK, get out of bed. And I was just starting to appreciate the smaller things and something similar as in to say, well, with the circumstance I went through, the fact I get to wake up every morning, that’s what means more to me now than anything else. The fact of just having genuine happiness means more to me than anything else. And now when I say, at least I’m still around to watch football, even though I can’t play it, means more to me than it did the actual fact of playing it. So now when all of them things started. coming together week after week and month after month. And you just, I just found myself becoming a lot more at ease and at peace with so many things. And when those things start becoming a lot easier, I was able to then get comfortable speaking about like the stuff that I’ve gone through. I became comfortable speaking about retirement. I became comfortable still being involved with football. And then when all that started happening, like you say, it was like a, a loose switch moment when, when, when I had to retire because… I actually start realizing what is seen as the older professional at the age of 27 to 35 in football. You’re the older professional, the older bro. So once you retire and have retirement after your name, you think, my life is over. I’m retired now. What do I can’t do anything? Whereas you start realizing by the age of 30 or 40, you’re still a young, young man. You’re still a young person in this world that you can do whatever you want with your life from the age of 30 onwards. And for me, I’m 48 and I feel the same way Mark. I’m 48 right now and I still feel that way. Yeah exactly and that’s what I’m saying is that it’s literally perspective changes and my perspective changes have changed so much on things whereas it’s not literally about where I have to be and what I used to be. It’s literally about okay the the simpleness of where I’m at now is saying I enjoy every moment that comes my way. Any opportunity that comes my way I say yes if I like it. brilliant, see where it goes. And if I don’t like it, well, then at least I’ve tried it. It’s just not leaving any stone unturned and just go, well, now this is the other side of life that I would have never have known being in football. So now why not give everything a go? Because I’m never going to know if I don’t try it. So even though it’s been four years since I had to retire, I’m in probably a much better head space, physical space, everything than I probably was when I was playing because I just understand and see things differently. And it sounds strange to say, but I’m thankful for everything that I went through and for all the stuff that I went through has put me in this position to go. And that’s what it was all for. And you can kind of sit back and go, well, I have to go through that to be able to help with this. Or I had to go through that to speak and try and help somebody here. And the fact that I was able to be relatable and go through all the stuff I’ve gone through, people can actually sit and resonate with things because everybody on a day to day basis goes through some sort of struggle. And the fact that I’ve had it in 11 years and in those 11 years, I’ve probably had every single symptom. You can try with somebody to say, I struggle with this individually. Then people I feel as though can come to me and I can understand that a lot more. Whereas before, if I didn’t go through what I went through, I wouldn’t have an understanding of it. Well, and I want to get to that. I want to get to the arc of all the things that you’ve gone through. Cause I mean, you’ve talked about some of these recent things, but you know, you, you, you’ve, you’ve had a lot of ups and downs throughout your. throughout your journey. Before we get to that arc though, again, you know, reframing a couple of the little things that you said or going through them again. Whether you’re a world elite footballer or a guy who’s just going through a divorce or a guy who’s just lost somebody and they’re coming to grips with it, whatever it is, the relatable stuff that I’m hearing, there’s two things that kept popping out and listening to you talk. Number one is gratefulness and how gratefulness seems to be such a silver bullet for you. And there’s so many people who, you know, who gratefulness, you know, the time and place of their situation, being able to look for the things that are blessings right then and there and married it to that exact concept, being present, being present in the here and the now and understanding that the things that we have gone through do not define us. They’re the things that brought us to this moment. and there’s blessings that are there. There are things that we can be grateful in those things. It sounds like gratitude and presence are two very, very important things to you right now. And they’ve helped you get through this last, this last crisis, identity crisis, all that stuff. Let’s talk a little bit about the arc of what you went through. I want to, let’s get to the story. I mean, I don’t know how many times a week you tell this story. I imagine it’s quite a few. but, but you’re using it to make the world a better place. And I appreciate that so much. yeah, no, literally that. Yeah. No, like, and as I said, like the, the more I shared it and the more people here, you just hope that somewhere that resonates with people. And even if it’s one to 10 people are anybody who might hear that. And, and it’s, it’s to the point of saying, like, this is the thing that I’ve gone through to make me feel these things. But. The difference is we all feel the same things, but this is the reason why I felt mine. And that’s where the angles are going to come out. And it was like when I obviously moved away from Dublin at 15 and I made my debut with Derby County at the age of 16. It was the season after that I got a routine medical, a routine heart scan and the routine heart scan showed that I had a leak in my aortic valve, which was something they told me it was minor at the time. They told me it was something that I wanted in operation for 60 years and all I kept asking was, well, can I still play football? And I was getting advice. Yes, you can. So I didn’t really think much of it. I carried on training. And as I carried on training, my heart rate was up 227, the max was, and 203 was the average. And they kind of put two and two together and they kind of said, well, this could be connected to that because we didn’t know. Like I wasn’t having any… fatigue, breathlessness, dizziness, all the symptoms that they expected to have during these things. So they put me towards another specialist who then put me forward for an MRI scan. And then I got told after the MRI scan on a scale of one to 10, 10 being the worst and one being okay, that my valve was leaking up to about a seven or an eight. And… In that time of a seven or an eight, that’s when I think they started to take it a little bit more serious. Now, in that time, I still got told you won’t need an operation for 20 or 30 years. Things are still functioning how they should, but it’s looking quite bad. So in that time, I was still thinking, right, in 20, 30 years time, football will be finished. I’m only 16. They’ll be 46. I’ll be fine. And they put my information onto another specialist who then called the physio in with myself and said, look, I’ve reviewed everything, I’m gonna have to put you in touch with a surgeon. So then I had to phone my family. And then when I found my family, they flew over and I remember, again, just like it was yesterday, the exact room, we sat in a small office where there was me, me mom, me dad and the Derby County physio. And the doctor came in, he sat on his desk, put his diary down and he just stood there with a model heart in his hand and said, right Mark. He said you’re hired three times the size of what it should be for someone of your age and if you don’t get this operation done this year you’re dead. How does that feel at that time? Like, do you say you can put yourself back in that place? World’s your oyster, you’re busting it, you’re accelerating at a much higher than average, even for an elite, you know, at your age, you’re accelerating like crazy, you’re a firework that’s about, that’s going off, about to explode, and then suddenly, full stop, this happens, and you’re 16, my God. Do you remember the feelings that you felt at that moment? Yeah, literally, I remember when he said it and I think it felt like one of those, you can’t be speaking to me because I’ve just made my debut, I’ve just played for the force team, I’ve trained, I’ve played football my whole life, this can’t be me, you can’t be telling me I’m close to dying, you can’t be telling me that. And I remember I sat there and funnily enough, I think because being 16, all I asked the surgeon was, can I still play football? And I think that was just me being 16 and naive. Like you don’t really think of it. You don’t think like this is happening. And I just remember his response to me was, right, Mark, well, look, he said, you’d be lucky to play down the park with your friends, let alone a professional standard anymore. So that time was when I started to kind of think, I’m never gonna get to play again. And I couldn’t really understand it. And… He went through the procedures that we can go through. He said, you could have a metallic valve, which means I had to be on a blood thinner for the rest of my life, which meant that you can’t play contact sports. So that was one that I said no to straight away. Then it was, there was like, it’s called a Ross procedure where they take your aortic valve and they do it with your lung valve and they swap them. So it’s still the same tissues, but then years down the line, you have to then get an operation on your, on your lung valve. Yep. And he said it’s. He said, it’s quite risky, but he said it’s your own tissue. So we should be okay where it will take to your body. So in that time I was like, okay. And he said, the third one is you can get a pigskin valve. And then the pigskin valve was something where in that time they told me that it’s something where it could last you a year to maximum of five years. He said, it’s something that may not take to your body because it’s something foreign to your body. And also he said it might not work. Cause he said we’ve had a… Jim Nastian, who she had the same operation and he said, within seven months of the operation, the valve ended up giving up and she had to have the same operation again. So he said, none of this is a guarantee, but he said, it will give you, he said, maybe, and we knew chance of playing down the park with our friends, but he said, as a professional standard, being as fit as you have to be, you probably won’t get back to that. But he said, he said, there’s no reason why you can’t try, but he said, don’t have your hopes up that you will. And straight away, without even thinking, I said, yeah, I said, that’s the one. Like I was – Okay, I gotta ask this though, cause you’re 16 and you’re playing with men, you’re making these decisions, you’re doing these things or whatever, but you’re 16 and your parents are now in town. And so like you make that decision right away because you know, I’ve talked to, I’ve talked to Olympians, I’ve talked to people who are just, you know, you get to that place at that age and it doesn’t matter. You tell an Olympian, someone who’s going to the Olympics, for example, that, you know, okay, you can go there and you’re going to metal. but you’re going to die at 30. They will say, where do I sign? They will do it because they’re not obsessed, right? Like, and, and clearly that’s who you were when it came to the sport of football. But I mean, mom and dad are there. They’re like, Hey, Mark, hold on a second. Like, was there any discussion whatsoever? Did you have any resistance or did they just say, Hey, you’re the, you’re in the pilot seat. You’re flying the plane. Let’s we’re going to do what you do. Yeah. I think. Behind me back, I remember speaking to them, this is years down the line, behind me back, I think they were speaking to the physio, trying to say, nudge them to see if he’s really sure about this, like to try and get me thinking. But they knew how much I love football. They knew that this was my dream and they didn’t want to stand in the way of that. So they supported it in every way that they could. So I always say one of the main reasons why I was able to kind of get over it was the fact of I never had anybody doubt me along the way. So as much as the doctor doubted me, I never had anybody tell me, Mark, you might never do it. So when I went in for the operation and the operation took six and a half hours, I came out of the operation and then that would have been October time of 2009. And then I think in 2010, that I think it was end of April, beginning of May, I made the first team bench again and I was back playing. And that was an eight month period of getting told I’d never put. along the way, not one single person said, Mark, you might never do it. Now there was days where I felt like giving up because I had to do slow jogging. I had to do walks. I had to do everything like basically real rebuild myself back again to a standard of that can even just train at a professional level, let alone play at a professional level. How frustrating was that? Was that, was that, was there, was it okay? You know, this is just a journey. This is just what I have to do. Or was there times of self -doubt because you’re so used to your machine, your body. performing at a certain way and now you’re performing at 20, 30 % of what it could do. was that, was that a hard pill to swallow? Yeah, I’d say it was because it was tough because I knew, I knew what it took to try and play for a forest team. And I just felt as though this is stopping me from playing and this is stopping me getting to where I want to be. And obviously at the time it’s like, yeah, dude, like we had physios and we had fitness coaches that I deal with this, that you look at it and go, they know how to rehab hamstrings. quads, groin strains, how do you rehab a heart? Like nobody knew, it was all kind of guesswork. So the fitness coach, Steve Haynes, who he was at the time, he just took it off as how do you get somebody fit? So we went out on slow jogs, slow walks. And then when we had a break, we’d reach a certain level. Okay, we’ll walk for a bit, then we’ll jog again and then we’ll walk. And we just done that repetitive. So the only time that I ever seen there was that glimmer that does a chance, even though I was feeling so unfit. When I had to go back and get reviewed by the hospital every couple of months, it was in that moment where they’d say, okay, Mark, walk on a treadmill for 20 minutes and we’ll see what your heart rate is. Yeah. And I was exceeding all of their expectation because I was at the level of a football fitness. Now I wasn’t at a level. So that gave me the confidence of going, right, it’s working. There wasn’t any thing of saying this isn’t working out. When I was in the training ground and I was watching all the other lads training and out doing full sessions, that’s when my frustration would come. Cause I’d say, I want to be with them. I want to train with them, but I knew I couldn’t. So when I finally, and I always said it that I didn’t care whether I was getting a short back on for the youth team that I was in for the reserves or whether it was the forest team. I said, once I knew I had a short back on and I was able to kick a ball, I didn’t care. I said, I was going to be happy because of everything that happened. And like I said at the beginning, there wasn’t a single person that told me no along the way. There wasn’t a single person saying, Mark, this doesn’t look like it’s happening. Everybody was like, right, Mark, it wasn’t a great one today, but we’ll do it again tomorrow and then we’ll do it again the next day. And they just kept showing up and showing up. And when that confidence came to me, I remember me very forced getting back and I was on MUTV, which is Manchester United TV. And how long are we talking? This would have been, I think, seven months after the operation. Seven months. my God, Mark. That’s insane. Yeah. So seven months after the operation, I ended up getting back playing and It was with the under 18s and I remember you can buy that in back home in Ireland on the telly and my mum and dad bought it in and I think when I spoke to them after, I think they were more worried that wondering, is Mark going to be the same player? Is Mark going to be the same or is he going to come off the pitch frustrated that he’s not the same anymore? And my dad always said to me, he remembers the first thing that happened was a ball came to me, I threw myself in front of it, it hit me in the chest, I got up and I ran off and he said, right. There’s the mark I know. And that was it. Like there wasn’t a doubt then they knew he’s back. Now he’s talking. He took a shot to the heart and he’s doing his thing and that’s it. Yep. And that’s literally it. And I think that was confirmation for them. So as positive as they were, they always had that little doubt of thinking, well, we know how Mark and much I love football. This could disappoint him massively. And the fact that I just went straight back in, like I was only out for a small injury. I just took it. Like it was kind of treated as an injury. It wasn’t treated as… medical condition it was treated as Mark’s got an injury now let’s really have him getting back and because it was treated that way and also being 16 and not understanding anything I just had to go off what everybody else around me was saying and because everybody else was telling me yes along the way well then I didn’t have to look back. The story that we tell ourselves and and the the narrative that we tell ourselves like framing those two things the way that you just framed them. are completely different perspectives on how we view our life moving forward. Like that is a, I have a horrific medical condition versus I’m rehabbing an injury. Like those two mindsets are reframed completely differently. And then when you keep going down each one of their paths lead to completely different destinations on mindset, how you look at life, all of that. You know, reframing the narrative that we tell ourselves, I think is one of the silver bullets as well. of how we can improve our lives. If we just take a look at some sort of a setback and we reframe it as an opportunity for something else, or we reframe the way that we label it in our head, it can change everything. Mindset is everything. That is a huge, huge distinction. And I’m really, really glad that you mentioned that because any guy out there who listens to this can take any situation that they’re in and they can reframe it. And I mean, what a great exercise. Hey, you’re going through some adversity right now, brother. Okay. How can you reframe that adversity to something that’s going to end up serving you and rehabbing an injury? You think about like, you know, many times when you break a bone and you, and that bone sets and you fit, it comes back stronger than it was because of, because of the process. Yeah. Boy, what a better way to look at it then. man. Yeah. I’ve got a, you know, like that is, that is a, that is a phenomenal exercise that we can all do. So thank you for mentioning that part. Please, please, please continue. Yeah. No, like, and. That is literally the part that really got me over the line with a lot of things. And that’s why I say that after that one moment of being able to get back fit from that, there wasn’t a single thing that was stopping me in my career. So it molded my career to allow me to play every single season with pure enjoyment. And don’t get me wrong, I’ve had injuries along the way, but sure. Along with the operation, I had to have a scan after every single season. to tell me if I was allowed to play the next season. So I didn’t know how long I was going to have in football, but I gave myself the best chance and opportunity to give myself a career. So after one season, you give it your all. When everybody can go home and enjoy time with their families and go home and enjoy themselves, I was having a hard time to tell me if I’m allowed to play next year. And then when another season would finish, it would be exactly the same. So because they told me it would be a year to a maximum of five years, My career was on the clock from the beginning. So every season, like you say, live your life like it’s going to be your last day. Like I lived my every single season like it was going to be my last, but it allowed me to, it allowed me to enjoy it. It allowed me to attack it. It allowed it to become my life to where everything mattered. Like football matters now and I’m going to give it everything and I’m not going to hold back and whatever comes my way, I’m going to bypass that and I’m going to just keep going for it because… Again, I don’t know when it’s going to stop. So why not get the most out of it that I can and give myself the best opportunity? And that’s what I don’t. So like I’ve had cruciate ligament injuries and I always said to myself, if I can get back from a heart, I can get back from this. Never cruciate ligament is something that can end your career. But to me it was if I can get back from the heart, I can get back from this. And then I had a microfracture after that. And if I said, if I can get back from a microfracture and an ACL, I can get back from this. So like everything, it allowed me perspective to be. look back at what made you to get here, then whatever made you to get here and you overcame that, this is going to be a brace. And then the only times that I felt as though I had a struggle, which was out of my control. So like an injury is in my control where I can rehab it and do the best I can. I think the only time I struggled was when was a new learning curve overall, was when the manager didn’t like me because I was fit. I was well, I was healthy. I could train as well as I could. I could give it as much as I could. But if a manager doesn’t like it. There’s nothing I can do to change his mind because it’s just your face doesn’t fit. And I think that was the fourth time I came up against that. And I thought, do you know what? This is where I’m actually struggling. And I look back at it now and realize I was struggling a lot more than I probably gave it credit for. Because again, I didn’t understand much about depressions or anxieties and all these different things. Whereas I just took it as I’m having a terrible time here. And that in itself was probably a tough time. But then also… I treated that like the injury, like the whole mindset thing. I treated that like an injury. I said, okay, if we can get back from a heart and ACL and micro fracture and all these different things, this manager’s opinion is not going to stop me. I’m going to keep training for myself every day and I’m going to keep doing what I need to do for myself because at some stage it’s going to come back to me. At some stage it will get better. And when I got given an opportunity to then go play, I went and played and I was fit and ready to play. And it was due to that. So again, even though… I’ve had the adversity and there’s things that you can give up on in all of that story. It’s to the point of going, well, I used that in every single thing that got me over the next hurdle and the next hurdle. And it’s not the fact of saying, well, look at him, he’s amazing because I had tough times along the way. I had times where I felt like I’m going to give up. But then you also, it’s like that, really, I’m going to take it one more day. I’m going to just give it one more go and I’m going to give it one more chance. And then it’s that extra day or that one more chance is what allowed me to then grow from that. rather than just because it’s in me head to quit now I’m going to do it and be impulsive. I just allowed it to kind of be as it is. And I think once I ended up moving away from that club where the manager didn’t like me, I get to Newport County to where I’m at right now. And I went from 11 months of not playing a single minute of football to then I had six months. I ended up scoring a goal for Newport County that saved them from getting relegated. And then all of a sudden me life changes again. And then that one moment of… the high and the roller coaster, as I always call it, the high of what that football gave me and what it meant for me and what it meant for the club. To then all of a sudden, I look back and go, well, because I didn’t give up because of this one manager’s opinion, now there’s a new manager with a different opinion who really likes me and this is why I didn’t give up. And I wouldn’t have had this opportunity if I had stopped back then. So it’s literally my life, I look at it now and it is like one big story that, well, if I didn’t do that, that would have been become very difficult. But then… If I didn’t overcome that, then this one would have became very difficult. So it’s all kind of worked its way around. And again, I know like I’m sitting here as a retired footballer and it’s four years ago, I had to retire for the second open heart surgery. Yep. Because I remember it was during COVID and I went out for a walk and like the season had finished because nobody knew what COVID was. So the season got cut short. Yeah. And I ended up having to stay fit. And then one evening just sitting on the sofa behind me, I remember I just got like a big pump in my chest and I could feel my neck pulse and I could feel like the palpitations in my chest. And at that moment I thought something doesn’t feel right. Like I wasn’t able to breathe and things didn’t quite feel nice. And because it was COVID everybody is locked down. So like I’m phoning our club doctor and I’m asking them, look doc, I’m getting this like pump in my chest and I don’t know what it is. And he said, look, He said, it’s probably something known as an uptopic beat. Don’t worry about it. Look, let me know if it happens again. So I was like, okay. So I carried on cycling every day and walking and doing all the stuff to keep fit. But I noticed myself getting more and more tired the more I done. And then I started to get slightly dizzy. Then I started to get all the symptoms that I didn’t have at 16. I started to get them now. And then all of a sudden I found the doctor and I said to him, look, something isn’t right. I said, you need to get me a heart scan. And he was like, right. He said, I’ll get you in at the hospital. But like obviously Jordan COVID, it was difficult. So I ended up going down into the hospital. And I remember I went in to get a scan and the doctor afterwards pulled me and I’m sitting in the office because nobody else is allowed in there. Like there was no mam or dad moment and stuff like that. It was literally I’m sitting there by myself. And he said to me, he said, look, Mark, he said your valve is leaking. And he said, it’s leaking very badly. He said, you’re going to need the open heart surgery and a valve replacement. And it was at that moment, my life crashed because that’s where I knew football was off. Because it was at 16 and from 16, I made a decision with myself and my family that I was given one operation for my career and one operation was for life. There wasn’t any in between. There was always that, this is what I’m doing for my career. So whether it took me a year or five years or the 11 years that I got. whatever in between that football was finished. Once I need this second one, it was stopped. So then you were on the clock every year. You knew you were on the clock. You knew you were on the clock. And in some ways the clock went way further than you even thought it might to the point where it became sort of regular life. But then suddenly the alarm goes off and yes, and you knew the alarm went off because at that point there that was the alarm and you had already accepted that when the alarm goes off. That’s it doesn’t make it any easier, of course. Yeah, but you knew there was no negotiating. There was no denial. There was no bargaining. That was that that was it at that point. And it’s in the middle of a pandemic. One of the loneliest times that our modern culture has ever seen. That must have been a really hard pill to swallow. Yeah, it was. And again, I think it was. I fell into the routine of every time I went back for a scan, I got told everything’s okay. So I think I fell into that kind of trend of everything’s okay, everything’s okay. So I started losing sight of the fact I’m on a time scale and started just thinking everything’s great, everything’s perfect. So as much as I already had it in my mind that football was finishing whenever these scans are happening, because I was getting so many good results and I exceeded expectation, then all of a sudden when that… moment came of getting told, Mark, you need to retire. It hit me like a ton of bricks. Like I broke down into tears there and then in the office. And I remember I sat in front of him and I just dropped my head and start crying. And he tried to console me and he tried to tell me, look, Mark, there’s procedures you can do to continue your career, the stuff that we can do. And I said, no, I said, you’re not understanding. I said, I made this decision. I said, I’ve done it once at 16. I said, and the next one’s for me life. I said, I’m not taking three, four or five different chances for a career. I said, I’ve. made that decision a long time ago, I said, I’m just upset that it’s happened now. I said, and I’m just gutted because as much as you say, you expect that it doesn’t make it easier because you don’t understand the implications of it. Like, I never knew how much football was to my life and much of a distraction it was to my life until I started to have to deal with it. And I remember I came home and I was sitting here and I found me mom and I was like, mom, maybe… my valve was leaking again. She said, okay, I’m getting a flight tomorrow. So my mom flew straight over and it was something where it was kind of like right back to where it was at 16. Like it was not panic stations, but it was back to worry. But I was 27 now and I understand everything that’s going on. I’m not a naive 16 year old. I understand open heart surgery. I understand the valve leak and I understand the fatigue I’m getting and the tiredness. And the one thing I probably didn’t understand what returning from football really meant. because I remember I had to phone my manager at the time and I found him and he was, and like, again, he’s a bubbly character and I found him and he was just like, what’s going on? He said, are you enjoying your time off? And I said, look, I’ve got something to tell you. And he said, what? And I said, look, I said, I’ve just had a heart scan and my valve is leaking again. I said, I need to retire. And then the phone call just went silent and he just goes, I’ll phone you back in a minute. And he said afterwards, he said he went and he shed a tear because he said he couldn’t believe. that I had to retire because again, I was somebody that I had close connections with a lot of people and I was enjoying my career. I was doing really well for Newport. I was captain of Newport and everything was as what I dreamt of as a kid, if you want to call it that, that everything was this is a football career. This is when a place loves you and this is what it’s like. And I was that leader being a captain. So like you say, you were fulfilling everything that you kind of worked hard for and… I always taught to myself, look, I didn’t play the career that I always thought I wanted, like to play in the Premier League to be seen after and to be well known and all these different things that you expect. That’s what a football career is. I haven’t gone and won loads of trophies. I haven’t played in the World Cup. Like I just had a normal football career. So I just thought, well, I’ll put a post out there to let the Newport fans know that I retired. And then before I knew it. It was on BBC, it was on Sky Sports, it was on this. And all of a sudden I kind of sat there and I was getting players that I’ve played against and I’ve never played in the same team with message me and say, look, I’m sorry to see our news. Look, I wish you all the best. It’s been great. You’ve been a great pro. And you started to sit back and think I was actually more known or more liked than I actually believed in myself because it’s like that humbleness again, if you want to call it, to say, I just seen it as a normal career. And I think most people see things like that. You don’t expect the response that you got. And then it was as time was leading on from that. And then I started doing like little interviews with people. But in this time, like my health was getting worse and everything was getting worse. And I could feel myself getting more tired and more fatigued. And you remember those words from a 16 year old to say one morning you wake up and your heart can just go like that. And when they’re ringing around your head. You don’t want to get out of bed. You don’t want to do anything strenuous because you’re thinking that might be my last ever step. Yeah. And it was in that time of doing those interviews and people like kind of hearing the whole story. And like, don’t get me wrong, I had unbelievable support from Newport, from the players, from ex teammates and everything. It was still to the point of thinking, right, but this is all great. But I still have to have open -arts surgery. I still have to face this. So like with all of this that’s going on and it’s lovely getting the messages and seeing the support, it was the fact of I still have to do this. It’s not that it’s going to go away. The longer I sit down on my sofa, the longer excuse me, the longer I lay in bed, I’m not going to, I’m not going to escape it. And then the longer it went on, I remember I went back to the hospital where I had it done and they seen me straight away and they admitted me straight and thought he doesn’t look well. And then while I was… in the hospital and a little bit because and I think these are the certain reasons where the perspective start changing and like different things start going on in my mind that I never thought I’d ever think. It was one night I was laying in the hospital bed and I felt sick, I felt ill, I was vomiting over the side of the bed and I didn’t know why my heart rate was racing and all I was thinking in my head was I think I’m having a heart attack, like I think it’s like something’s going wrong here. So they came in, they thought I had an infection in my valve. And for three or four days they’re trying to figure out if I’m having the operation or not, because if there’s an infection there, it can’t operate. So we’re all them things that were going on in between that I’m still trying to stay in touch with family. I’m dehydrated, I’m not eating, I’m losing weight. Like everything was just, anything that could go wrong felt as though it was going wrong. And it was the night before the operation. I got wheeled onto the main ward where everybody is usually recovering. I still haven’t had the operation, but I’m wheeled in on all these big monitors. And I remember the surgeon came around that evening and he spoke and he said, Mark, how are you feeling? And like trying to be joking, I kind of go, could be feeling better. And he was like, right. He said, well, look, he said, well, we’re getting the results back tomorrow that if you don’t have an infection, the operation is a go ahead. But he said, if you do have an infection, he said, we can’t operate until that infection leaves. And he said, the state and the way your valve is, he said, it’s hanging on by literally a thread. And he said, if your valve breaks off at any stage through the night or within the next couple of days, he said, circulate your body and gets lodged in your brain. He said, you’re dead. He said, we’ve had people in here that unfortunately it has happened to and that’s why you’re on this main ward, because we need to keep a real close eye on you because it could just happen like that. And then. The perspective change came from the point of I didn’t want open heart surgery to praying I could have it, wondering, my God, this has to happen. Like I need open heart surgery. I need this. I need this to save me life because I didn’t realise that it was that serious. And I think the part that was killing me the most was because I was like no family were allowed in the hospitals. No loved ones were allowed anywhere. Everything was a face time. sit on your phone and talk to your mom and talk to your dad. And that was the hardest part because I couldn’t have anyone around me. And I was sitting talking with my mom after a doctor just telling me that her son potentially has 24 hours to live. And I’m sitting trying to put on that brave face of saying to her, look, yeah, no, I’m fine. Everything’s great. But what I didn’t realize, the doctors were relaying all these messages to her. So she’s trying to say the same things back to me. Look, you’re going to be fine. Everything’s going to be great. And both of us are sitting there kind of with the elephant in the room, knowing this could be bad. And I remember the next morning I woke up and I think I slept for 20 minutes. I say woke up, it was probably just a nap. But I remember the doctor came in and he said to me, he said, look, Mark, he said, you haven’t got an infection in your valve and you can have the operation. And it was again. the rush I had of relief, stress. I just burst, I literally burst into tears and I shook the doctor’s hand and I said, thanks. I said, that’s all I needed to hear. And then all of a sudden I became excited for open heart surgery, which sounds strange to say I was excited for it. And in that time of it, I remember I was getting wheeled down and because COVID was different, they can’t put you in the anesthetic room. You had to get wheeled straight into the theater and then they put you to sleep there. So one minute, in the theater and I see all the monitors, all the doctors, the doctors there, monitors there, lights there. And it was all like, OK, this is happening now. And I was kind of like, look, you’re sitting there, they put you to sleep and it’s like, right, Mark, we’ll see you soon. And then the operation took seven hours. And I remember I woke up in intensive care and I had all these tubes coming out of me and they told me afterwards, like they kicked me vocal cord when I had the ventilator. So like me, me throat was very like when it like it was closing up every time I’d speak. So I’d constantly clear me throat and constantly like be coughing and everything. Like just felt really groggy. But I remember my mom was on the phone and the only thing I said to my mom was I’m alive. And that was the only thing I said was I’m alive. And I had a girlfriend at the time and she was obviously sitting with me mom. And all I said was make sure she’s okay because I didn’t care about anything at the time. I just knew. Once I get over this, I know I can get back. I know I’m going to do it. I had that mindset from 16 going, I know I can do it. I know I’ll be great. I’ll get back, but at least I know I’m alive. And that’s all that mattered. And my mom knew that because she was going through it. But I think the girl that obviously is an ex -girlfriend now, she didn’t really know that. This was a new experience for her. And unfortunately, going through this time and this and that period, we had to part ways because it was… getting too much for her, it was upsetting her seeing me the way I was. She was kind of doubting if I’ll ever be the same again. And as well as that, I didn’t need to hear that of, are you going to be the same? Are you not? I had to just need someone with pure positive around me. And again, there’s no ill feelings towards that person as well as there’s no ill feelings towards anybody. I know I’m a nightmare to deal with going through this. I fall out with anybody and everybody, but that’s just literally due to the fact of, okay. Now, all of a sudden, when I used to be fit, well and healthy, walking from this door to that door, I have to sit down and then I have to get out of bed and then I have to do it again. Yeah. And Jordan doing all this while I was in the hospital, I have to do it by myself. Whereas when I was 16, I had me mom to walk the corridor with. I had me dad to bring me along. I had the physio to walk with me. I had friends able to come visit. This time it was all myself. Yeah. And then I spent four weeks in hospital. I lost two stone and weight. And. After losing two stone away, I came out, I was fragile. And because I spent four weeks in hospital, I was so used to being a click of a button away, that now all of a sudden I’m out by myself. Then the anxiety started of I don’t have this button. Like what happens if something goes wrong? my God. Like, and things that you wouldn’t have as a 16 year old, all like the depression came in and I never knew I had depression. I spoke with cardiac rehab at the time, just to kind of… give me a guideline of walk 20 minutes this day and 30 minutes this day. I had a guideline of. Okay, Mark, fill out this questionnaire. We’re going to do it over the phone, right, Mark? We’re going to let you know you’re severely depressed. I was like, no, I’m not. They said you could get out of bed right now, but you’re not. And I said, I said, I can’t get out of bed because of me open heart. So he said, no, you can get out if you want that. But you’re just choosing to use that as your excuse. So what then all of a sudden I started to realize that, right, maybe I am. And then panic attack start. So when I didn’t want to leave the bedroom, I’d have a panic attack in bed. I’d sleep on my sofa. And then I’d go from sleeping on the sofa, which isn’t great for you in any way, to then I’d have a panic attack on the sofa. I’d go back sleeping in bed. And then I wouldn’t even look at the sofa, let alone want to sit on it. And there was nights afterwards where I was too afraid to sleep because I didn’t think I was going to wake up. And I was just building all these different things because again, what am I getting fit for? Nothing. I don’t have football. What am I doing this for? Nothing, because I haven’t got football. Like this is my life now and I don’t like it. And especially with this valve, you can hear it tick and you can just hear it tick like a clock. And as well as that, you can feel it thumping in your chest all the time. So that’s a new sensation to get used to. That’s something that is going to drive you crazy at certain times. So when you’re having that panic attack, you can switch off because all you’re just feeling at chest is that thumping like that. So. There were so many things and now I’m on a blood thinner for the rest of my life. So now I’m having to wait on my blood levels to start even in itself. So now I have to be on blood pressure tablets just to protect the aortic root that they put in. So with all these different things, I’m having to suffer through it all. And I just thought it’s all I need is fitness and I’ll be fine. Whereas fitness wasn’t cutting it anymore. And then all of a sudden I started to, I got basically pushed towards counseling and I never thought. Look, I don’t need counselling, I’m fine mentally, I’m fine. Look, I don’t need it. And then once I started it, I think the part that kind of got me the most was when I spoke, I got told that I normalised open heart surgery like it’s a day to day thing, like it’s cutting your finger. Whereas I’m not allowing it be the trauma that it is and actually accept it for how big it is and allow myself to give myself weeks, months, years to mend. I want to overnight. I want it next week and I want to buy tomorrow. Like I wasn’t given it the actual justice that I deserved. So my mind was telling me you should be okay. Just go out and do it. You should be fine. Okay, they’re not fine. And I was fighting with myself constantly. And once I ended up starting to accept so many things, everything just slowly started to come back to me. I started just that part there. Mark was that a revelation when they told you that you hadn’t accepted it for what it was? And I mean, again, so many people go through something and they just kind of move on not giving it. It’s the weight of what it is when they told you that and it occurred to you for the first time. Did that start the process of going? okay. Like, did you accept that right away? Did you understand it? And did that help? Do you know what at the time? No, because I was so used to from the age of 16 to now that’s two open heart surgeries that I just thought are normal. getting heart scans every single year are normal. Now anybody going in for a heart scan for a once off heart scan, I terrified. Now I was getting these on a yearly basis that seemed normal to me. So what seemed normal to me is not actually normal. So I had to try and start saying, and it came from literally when you’re in a football and sports environment, it’s all about the team. The team done really well today. It’s not about the individual, it’s about the team. So I always found it difficult. to give myself that prayers. I was always very hard on myself. I was very tough on myself to say, I should be better already. I should be out jogging. I should be this. I should be better. And that in itself was something that it did become a revelation, but I didn’t know how to deal with it. I did not understand. Well, why do I need to accept it? Like I should be okay. And when all of them things start to unfold, it was at that time where I thought, yeah, actually speaking about myself is difficult. Talking about my own situation is difficult. Whereas in football, I had to hide it and just say, yeah, I’m fine, because I didn’t want anybody to treat me different. I had to tell everybody I’m OK, because I didn’t want to manage not to play me because of an issue that I had no control over. So I just became normal to go, I don’t want the pity. I don’t want people to feel sorry for me. So I’m not going to tell you the severity of everything that’s gone on, because I don’t want you sitting there thinking, well, look at him pity me. It wasn’t that. It was OK. get used to just speaking about it and whether you’re doing it for the right reasons or wrong reasons, speak about it and be open. And it was at that point when the counselor said that to me is, I got told so many times, Mark, you’re too hard on yourself. And I never understood it because I just seen it as that’s how it was. And that’s how I used to see things. Whereas it wasn’t to the point of going, we speak about yourself and go, I am amazing. It’s more speak about yourself and go, actually, I’m scared. Actually, I am worried. Actually, do you know what? I don’t know what I’m doing with my life after football. Like, I actually am struggling right now. And I was to… When I started giving that more time and effort to think of, I just couldn’t help but cry. I couldn’t help but cry saying, when I was going through this, do you know what? I’m actually terrified. Do you know what? I don’t go to sleep at night because I’m afraid I won’t wake up. Like, and I was terrified of saying, yeah, I’ve got depression and yeah, I’ve got panic attacks because when you’re in sport… You don’t want to show a weakness and show that like this, this isn’t me. Like I am this strong, powerful person. Like you’ll never get the better of me and this is me. I’m going to be better than you. Whereas now that I’m away from all that and I had a chance to speak for myself, that’s why I never gave the whole open heart surgery and just treated it like it was a day to day thing. Cause I didn’t want to just accept that. No, this is a massive thing. No, this is just something I got on with it. It’s grand. But realistically it wasn’t like, There’s people out there that it could take six months to a year to three years to five years to get over something like this. And I’m trying to think of it as like, again, an injury, it’s going to take me a week. It’s going to take me a month and then I’ll be fine. I’ll scrap it. It’s only this, I’ll be grand. And to me, that just wasn’t cutting it. And again, with the counselor, like you say, that moment was more to the point of going, okay, dive into that a bit more, talk about that a little bit more. And how did that make me actually go about my day to day? And like, Do you understand the open heart surgery? Do you understand that like, not just you’re dealing with it. Do you not understand the stress that you’re putting yourself on that by being so hard? Do you understand all of these things that I was like, no, I really don’t. So when I started to understand them and I started to accept, do you know what? I’ve had open heart surgery and do you know what? It was tough. And do you know what? It was so hard to get back from. And do you know what? I did retire from football. And do you know what? That was even tougher. And when you’re able to say it as that, you’re not speaking of it to have sympathy for me, but I’m just telling you the truth. I’m telling you, yes, I was close to death. And yes, these things have affected me. But it’s the examples I try and set for myself now is to show people that you will have things that will affect you. But don’t, don’t, don’t throw it away and think you have to hide it away to show that you’re strong. It’s even stronger to speak about it and accept that and be comfortable in it. And the fact that I can sit and be comfortable in my own skin, in everything that I’ve gone through and say, I’m not this fixed character now that I don’t have anything. I still have nights where I do have certain little nightmares about, my God, what about my heart? There’s times where I do get anxious about, my valve doesn’t feel quite right today. But I’ve learned to deal with that and accept it and just be more vocal and open about it because these are normal things and I have had open heart surgery. So it’s all of that, that. Like you say, the acceptance of everything and the fact of speaking about it is what allowed me to come to terms with so many things that that’s why I said I had to go through all of this as well as that, that when you do come across people or where they do have an opportunity to speak and openly and help somebody, it’s the fact of saying it’s not going I’ve read this in a book. It’s the fact of saying I’ve been in your shoes and somebody who can say you’ve been in your shoes will allow somebody to straight away weight off his shoulders to go, well, You know exactly how I feel and I don’t have to speak. And that is probably more powerful to what I found helped me than anything else could ever do. Mark. One of the things that my wife and her team is they’re building, he changed it. They want, he changed it to be a beacon in the world. They want it to literally change the world. That’s the goal of this, of this company. And there’s, there’s a whole bunch of little goals that are within that. One of the goals is that we want to take a word or a phrase back. And the phrase that we want to take back is the phrase man up and, and, and in sport, especially, this is a very simple phrase to, to, to throw out there because you know, you talk about the fact you’re not feeling right. You’re not feeling good. You don’t want to let the manager know because you want to play that day and you feel like it can put it in jeopardy. And so you’re burying that stuff down. And to many people, that’s the very definition of, of what man up currently is. What we want to do is we want to take that phrase back and we want to. do exactly what you you are the living embodiment of what we want to be, which is accept and be able to talk about how things really are. And because that’s the harder choice. The harder choice is not to bury it down and to just move on in that moment. It may seem like it, right? Yeah, deal with what you’re dealing with. But and to just, you know, just go for it. But the harder choice is actually to take that responsibility of where things are at right now and do something with it, talk about it, deal with it, whatever. That’s actually what Manning Up actually is. And that’s what we want it to be. You are a living embodiment of that, Mark. As you started to talk about it, did the weight lift off your shoulders immediately as you started to talk about it, or was it a process to get you there? Do you know what, it was an actual process. Believe it or not, it was something where when I spoke about it, I’d started to feel all the effects again. I’d actually feel like really, really drained after speaking about it for so long because you’d go on talk and then all of a sudden you’d panic about certain things and then you’d talk about it again. And I just felt myself, even as much as I wanted to be so vocal, then I started to realize, okay, for me to speak about it, I have to be okay. So then that was me taking my time then to go get myself back strong, do what I need to do, speak about it. in little doses along the way. And then, you know what? Once I’m comfortable and strong and feel better in myself to do that, well, then you know what? Now I’m ready to talk. So at the beginning, I tried to just, again, like verbal diarrhea, I want to tell everybody and tell them this and tell them that and speak about it. And I thought everything’s okay. But the more I spoke about it at that time, it actually felt a little bit more, actually, this is taking an LME. I don’t want to talk about it anymore. Like, I don’t want to speak about it. because the more I talk about it, the more I’m actually feeling worse, like I’m reliving it and reliving it. But then it allowed me then, like I say, to understand of going, right, if we do it in little small doses and I can kind of take the time out and go, right, I spoke about this now, I’m going to take a couple of days, I don’t want to speak about it. And then I’m going to carry on with my days. And then if it comes up again, yeah, I’ll talk about it. And then the stronger I was feeling in myself physically. and the more I was overcoming things, like you say, you do your own little stuff away from here. I don’t need counseling, going into football, going and trying to get a little bit fit again and just enjoying being me again. Yeah. It was the fact of just doing what made me happy, but be comfortable in my skin again. Like I was so nervous and I was so uptight and I was so kind of caught up with everything that went on in myself. Like I was nervous. Like I was nervous in my own body. Like I remember people saying to me and the help that I got from certain people. saying that like I’ve just given up trust in my body to look after me anymore. Like I don’t trust myself. So everything I was doing was like walking on eggshells and the less eggshells I had to walk on, the more I actually felt better. So like in essence, like even in the whole kind of way of it was when you know you have to rehab your heart, the more you do, the better you feel. But because of how my head was telling me, if we stay in bed, I’m not stressing my heart, I’ll be okay. And my head was telling me that for a time. And then all of a sudden I started to realize, okay, now it’s like, right, I need to take these small steps and I need to start, like, be comfortable being uncomfortable. Like it had to literally be the fact of going, I’m going to go into football every day and I’m going to force myself in. And I had a panic attack in football, but then I was also grateful I had a panic attack on football because then other people could see what I was going through and know that it’s not just me. It’s not just me saying it. Now use of all of seeing what I’m going through. And now all of a sudden that then, allowed me to be closer to them because then I trusted them more than my situation. Then I took a trip and went on a speaking course and then being away for a week with with strangers like at the time who are really good friends now. They were strangers at the time and then I was nervous about being around them thinking about what happens if I get a bit of a panic and this happens. Then all of a sudden I get more comfortable doing that so then I trusted myself to go all the way to Manchester and different things and then well here we are now I’m doing these little things and then. Newport were playing at Wembley and then I sat on a stage and done a talk and then all of a sudden things just started to slowly come around and then that’s when I started to learn the whole thing of enjoy the moments for what they are because I’m already overthinking and thinking ahead of going what will it be and how will it be and what am I going to be and tomorrow I might not wake up and all of them things were adding a stress to me that I was thinking I didn’t understand but now all of a sudden I can understand of going right when I wake up in the morning and I know it sounds very cliche of sometimes saying it, but I genuinely have a happiness of just going, right, well, at least I’m awake, so my day is going to be good because of everything I’ve gone through. And that was not easy to get to. And I’m not saying it’s an overnight thing. Like this is four years later and I’ve only just started to establish that. But the fact that I’m there, now you’ll have, you’ll have stresses and you’ll have a few annoyances along the way. But really. the smaller things that used to get to me and the being hard on myself and being pressured on myself and smaller things about jobs and girlfriends, wives, all of it in one umbrella. I could say I am laying back and say I am stress free because I look at it and say what’s meant for you won’t pass you. But in that moment, I’m going to enjoy every last moment I can with the things that I’m doing, because with that enjoyment, it will take you where you want to be rather than already like looking there. I will go in that direction already. So if I’m enjoying what I do and I’m happy with what I do, well then that happiness and enjoyment will take me to where the end goal is rather than thinking I have to study and work so hard at this but not enjoy it until I get to that. But the enjoyment along the way is what’s gonna let you probably get there quicker because you’re enjoying it. And everything in my life is like that now. So I don’t look at things as stressful and I don’t look at things as a big worry. I just look at things now and just say. Well, if something as an opportunity comes my way, well, then I’ll say yes. And if that goes really well and I enjoy it, well, then I’ll enjoy it again if I get that same opportunity and vice versa with so many things. So, like you say, there was that turning point and it’s not saying that you have to go through open heart surgery to feel this. It’s like any sort of adverse effect in your life that you go through. There’s always that moment where it’s like, I’ve even seen it where positivity and negativity are a choice. So why? when it’s a choice because I’ve always seen it as you don’t get born a positive baby or a negative baby you get born as a child. Now it’s your choice now whether if you want to see positive and you want to see the silver lining well you can choose it in the darkest of times if you want to see the best of things and you want to do that that is your choice if you want to see the negative side of stuff well then that’s your choice also because you can’t blame it on other people so I’ve always said it well my choice is I want to see things a little bit positive. So even through the tough times that I’ve gone through and the depression, the silver lining overall is that it’s put me in a much better mind space than I’ve ever, ever been in. And the silver lining overall and the thankful that I’ve gone through is the fact of going, do you know what? I can accept everything and how happy I am with myself. I wouldn’t have gotten if it wasn’t for the actual surgeries and stuff that I’ve gone through. Mark, you have summed up almost all of the things that we’ve talked about along the way here in that statement. And it’s an amazing thing. If I could just add one thing, it’s the idea that there are guys right now who are doing exactly what you’re talking about on a micro level. They’re living in the future. It’s not saying that you don’t plan and make plans and you have a vision for where you want to go, but you don’t live there. And if you do live there, that’s folly. That’s… You want to live where you are right now and have the enjoyment that you do. And those things that you’ve planned kind of, you know, the direction that you’re going, if you live right now and find the joy in that, it’s going to make when you get there that much sweeter. And, and, and so it’s, it’s, it’s not that you don’t plan it’s that you, it’s, it’s that you just don’t live there as you’re planning it, as you, as you vision these things. I’m curious at what point this. process these learnings, this journey that you’re on. At what point did the book become an option, an idea, and how cool was it? My wife and I wrote a book together, and we wrote it based on a traumatic situation that we had with our granddaughter. I think she’s fine now, but she was at BC Children’s Hospital for five months, and my wife and I wrote a book about what we learned going through that, and it was insanely therapeutic doing that. The process alone was worth worth it. I’m curious as to when the book became an option for you and how cool was that to be part of that project? Literally it became an option, I’d say it was two and a bit years after the operation. Obviously I was doing a lot of stuff that was widely known, like the story of everything that went on and It was one evening I went out and I was doing like kind of an evening in front of people and I just sat and spoke honestly about everything. And I remember after that, I got approached and somebody said to me, do you fancy doing a book? And I was thinking, well, funnily enough, like I don’t know where to start with that. And they were like, right, well, I’ll put you in touch with somebody and then we’ll see where it goes from there. And I was like, okay, perfect. And I always remember for so many years, my dad used to always laugh with me in St. Mark. Your life has been for the last 10 years, some people will never have in a complete lifetime what you had in 10 years. You need to do a book. And I used to always laugh saying, nobody’s going to want to read it. Nobody will read my book. Like everybody’s got their story. Nobody will read it. And then when I got approached for it, I said, yeah, actually, you know what, I’ll give it a go. And then in that process of doing it, it took a year to do it where there was like phone calls and just in depth stuff and going back to my childhood, going back to me. playing career when I was back in Ireland, going through me playing career at Derby League and going through me career. And I’m looking at games thinking, I remember I forgot I played in that game and this game was mental. And I remember this time when that happened and when I was in school and all these things that, yeah, you kind of have in your mind, but you don’t remember it. Then I’ll just start coming back and then you start getting into the in depth stuff about the open art sorcery. And then the conversations, how your mom felt and… the conversation with your dad and the relationship not quite working out and then having to retire. And then all of a sudden, like you say, it was like a therapy because then you’re speaking about it in a way where you’re allowing it to be a story now. So now what had a hold on me as this is reality, now it seems like a story. It doesn’t seem like it happened to an extent. I made it into a story there. It was a lot more accepted even more after that to go, now it’s a story I can read on it and people can read on it and go, that’s his life story. And when you see it as a life story, it’s literally about going, right, this is me. This is what I’ve gone through. This is the person I am. And this is what I hope the book does for people. And I always say that the book is never just about a footballer having a footballer’s life. It’s about my life was football, but it’s a life story of the stuff I’ve gone through. It’s not just a football story. Like it’s everything to do with football and stuff I’ve gone through, because that was my career. But it’s literally… There’s the depression in there, there’s the sad times, there’s the open heart surgery, there’s everything in there that anybody can resonate with at times where you might have felt down or just times where you felt depressed or anxious and all of them different things that it’s like, it’s trying to bring and normalise the fact of I’ve always seen it that I’m just a normal Dublin kid that moved away for a job and a career. And these are the things I had to face. I’m no different to anybody else who’s doing a nine to five job. And if you face the same things are similar through your life, well, just always know that I’m trying to set that example that everything will be OK. Everything can be OK and everything will be OK with the right time and the right effort and the right people around you. And like you say, it’s it’s literally. Once I’ve done it, I was kind of scared to release it at first because I thought you want that acceptance of people to say I want you want it to be great. You want people to reading, my God, how good is that? because it’s going to be vulnerable. It’s insanely vulnerable putting that. Yes. Yes, absolutely. A hundred percent. Like it’s me life on pages. And you don’t want someone to read that and go, that’s a terrible book. And I’m like, well, that’s me life. And you’re calling it terrible. So it’s like, you want people to accept it, but also I think you have to understand that, right? It’s not going to be everybody’s cup of tea. And I didn’t do it for everybody else. No, like it’s the fact that I’ve done it for me and the fact that I’ve got something there for me cells to go, do you know what? This is my achievements. This is my life and this is me on paper. And do you know what? I hope you like it. And if you don’t, don’t tell me about it. But now if you don’t like it, then do you know what? That’s up to somebody else’s opinion. But if you do like it and it can help somebody and you know it can help somebody, well then there’s the reason for it. And like you say, it is it is showing that vulnerability. I think that I’ve learned to do and I’ve been OK doing it because I just feel as though. When I’ve done stuff and when I’ve been outspoken about things, there’s been a lot of people that have reached out to me through social medias and stuff like that, that have said to me about open heart surgeries, that they were going in for the operation, that they’ve just had it. Or people trying to reassure me going, Mark, I had the same operation 20 years ago and I’m still doing great. And like everything was like a little community, but then also people reaching out saying, I remember I had anxiety. Do you know what? Just hearing you speak has allowed me to kind of stand up strong again. And… Like you say, it’s literally those elements of things. And like I say, it’s not going to be everybody’s cup of tea. But if it is helping that one person, well, then that’s the reason we’re doing it. And then that’s why it makes me feel as though my purpose is back again to what football gave me now. That leadership and that being a captain and that being fit, strong, healthy person that I claimed was football, Mark. Now I can be that in a normal day to day life. And like you say, it was like everything’s come back around again and I’m a better person for it. It’s so beautiful and like that’s what your life is now. The purpose of your life is enriching other people’s lives and leading, just leading in a different way. And you’re doing that. You’re embodying that. It’s a beautiful thing. If people want to get a hold of you, Mark, what’s the best way to do it? I got one last little thing I want to talk about before we close up. We could do this all day and maybe another day we will do it all day. You’re delightful and the vulnerability that you have shown is truly amazing. the bravery to do that. But at the end of the day, the journey that is taking you to where you are is inspirational. And it’s one that, you know, there are so many lessons that can be learned that are transferable to everybody. You know, the specifics might not be the same, but the steps to leading a better life really are, they’re blueprintable. And you have done that. You are doing that in a big way. What are you doing right now? How can people get a hold of you? And what does life look like right now for you? Life right now is that I still work in football. I work with the players, put more on a career inside that. If a bad decision or a manager doesn’t like them or if they have an injury or if they’ve had a bad performance and they don’t know how to quite take it, well then I’m like the person that can hopefully go around and put that smile back on their face and just keep them going. For that person that I needed when I played. to just to keep you, keep you, keep you going, just keep you going. Cause then that one moment that you do get your chance, I want you to be ready for it. And I’m not going to be the one that won’t give up hope on you. I won’t, I’ll be the one that won’t pull me back on you. So then that’s the person that I try and be. And then as well as that, you’re almost a team chaplain in some way. I would say that, but then don’t get me wrong. If they are, if they are getting too, too carried away with themselves and quick to pull them straight back down. There’s the best of both worlds there. But again, it is, it’s literally just that person that just, you know what, I’ll always have your back regardless. I’ll just try and keep you ticking along. And if you make mistakes, I’ll be there to help you. And if you are down on something, I’ll try and help. So it’s trying to be that. And I go out and do talks. I enjoy doing speaking in front of people, in front of Academy kids, or in front of like, I’ve done some for charities, I’ve done stuff for… evenings and different things. And I just enjoy it because it gives me that opportunity to show what facing adversity can do for anybody. It’s not just me because I was an ex professional footballer, it’s because the stuff I’ve went through are exactly the same things you can face in your life. It’s just about, like you say, the mindset of how you change or facing ahead on in the sink or swim moments. You choose to swim, whether that’s taking a day, a week or a month or a couple of years. If it takes that long amount of time, give it that time. But now that this is at the end of it and trying to show through an example and be the example of saying it’s happened for me. I was on that road, that slippery road of never seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. But I decided not to give up and I needed a helping hand and about being vulnerable and speaking and being open about it and allowing people to help you. Because again, you like to feel as though you’re a burden on someone’s shoulders, whereas realistically people do want to help. and you need to allow people to help, which is then another form of you helping yourself because you’re allowing someone in. So, like you say, it still always comes back around to yourself. And I always look at it. So when I do stuff like that and the book in itself is something that I’ve done and it is just building up these little things along the way. And I do. I’ve done commentary for the radio who do the live commentary on the radio here in South Wales that I help them do that sometimes. So. Again, it’s, it’s not something that like was ever easy, but I’ve just built it up slowly. And what I wanted basically yesterday to happen was four years ago. And to think if we had to look at myself at the beginning and say four years later, they’re going to be like this market, you know, this, this, and this, I would have said, no, if you would have been living in the future, look what you would have missed out on, look what you would have missed out on because things are, you mentioned, South Wales. okay. So a local boy. who’s done good in our area. He just went and bought a football team with a couple of his Hollywood buddies. Ryan Reynolds is a local and I’m super curious. We know our reaction on this side of the world when he went over and made his mark with Wrexham. Now, same league, right? It’s the same league. I’m super curious as to your perspective, and we didn’t pre -interview this, anybody. I’m just super, super curious. cause he has a local boy, like Ryan Reynolds, like grew up, you know, 200 kilometers from where I live and, and, and, and, and we always chronicle all the things that he does in all these sorts of things. What impact did it make when that dude bought that team over in, in your league? It made a massive impact. I think it made, it made people want to beat Rexam a lot more because they felt like literally it. It was one of them things that look what they have and look at now all of a sudden these these things are going to be amazing. But in all fairness, I think they they have done brilliant. I think they came up from the conference. I said, and what I always thought was going to be a difficult thing in league too, because they’re two different leagues and it’s a tougher league. They went on and exceeded expectation. And I think what he’s doing, not just for Wrexham, but the area of Wrexham, the stadium of Wrexham and don’t like. You do understand like money comes into play a little bit, but also I do believe like what he has done for the whole area in itself and don’t get me wrong, he brought a lot of following with him and he’s given them a whole new expectation on their shoulders. But like you say, they have done brilliant. I wish it was something that like you say, when you see it happening, you just think to yourself, do you know what, it’d be nice to beat them. It would be lovely to beat them. I think in an overall thing, I think when you look at what they’ve done and done, you can’t do anything but go, fair play. They’ve stuck to that word. They’ve helped people in the surrounding area. They’ve helped fans. They’ve helped players. So they’re not just people that were doing it for the sake of a publicity stunt. They’ve gone in and they’ve got their hands dirty and they’ve went right in. They’ve torn up to the games, even though they’re big Hollywood stars. They’re torn up to games. They’re being there, they’re hands on. I think that’s all you can ask for that. I wasn’t done as a publicity thing for the sake of what the club is. It was done as we are here to help. What do you need to help? And they’ve gone and done it. Yeah. Well, and it’s, and he’s bringing the game around the world, believe it or not. And I know it’s the world’s biggest game in North America. It hasn’t made the impact that it has in other areas. And, and, and, and he is bringing, he’s bringing Rexam to play a friendly versus the Vancouver Whitecaps in, in, in, in July. And that’s going to be a lot of fun. I’m a hoping that we can bring the heat change it grew down there to see that game. Actually, it’s going to be a lot of fun to see that and the support in Canada that is bringing putting eyeballs on the product and he’s literally building the game around the world by doing this. It’s a neat thing to see. Thank you for commenting on that. I appreciate that. It’s just it’s a fun story. Now I want to go back to I want to finish with you mentioned it earlier that moment. I want to make sure we’re going to finish by saying, how do people get ahold of you? Cause I don’t think you mentioned your social media. Let’s do that right now. If people want to get ahold of you, Mark, what’s the best way for them to follow you and to, to reach out? Well, literally like from, from social media of Instagram, I’ve got a Twitter and just at Mark O ‘Brien. Yeah. It’s at O Brian 1992 for me Instagram. And then it was me. me Twitter would be. Mark underscore O ‘Brien 92 would be me and Twitter. Again, like I say, if people reach out and they want to write a message to me or they want to reach out and if anything that they want to speak of or if they like what they see or anything, well then I’m always there to write a message to because again, I’ve had it in the past and people have been shocked to think why has he replied to me? Thanks for getting back to me. But again, Like I say, I just think I’m a normal person. So if I can have a helping hand that best that I can, well, then I’ll try my best. And if I’m able to help in somebody’s life for just a quick moment or a quick second, or just something that they need to get off the chest, well, then that’s what I’m here for. Beautiful. And I appreciate that very, very much. You mentioned the moment earlier when you scored a goal. Is this the biggest moment in your professional career, in your career? when you scored that goal to stave off the deregulation, is that, what’s the biggest moment or a couple of the biggest moments? Cause again, we have you on the show and I mean, I appreciate the message and all of the stuff in your journey and whatnot, but I don’t know that I would be able to get out of the building without being set on fire. If I didn’t ask about a couple of the football, the career moments, that sort of a thing. And if we could finish just talking about some of those things that did bring you that joy for so long. those moments that fulfilled you the way that they did. Just a couple of those moments. Was that goal one of the biggest moments of your career? Yeah, that goal was definitely one of the biggest moments. I can start off by saying when I made my debut for Derby at 16, that was a massive, massive moment for me. It was a realization of this is definitely what I want to do for the rest of my life. I’ve just seen it, I’ve played it, this is what I want. Playing in front of a stadium of people and… That was the moment that I was like, yeah, to make me debut at 16 is already something that is very good to do. And it’s not many 16 year olds do that now I’m kind of, I look at it as a, as a, as a massive turning point and a massive achievement for me. when I played up in Scotland, I got to play at Celtic Park, which is coming from Dublin. and everybody in our, and everybody in Dublin being Celtic fans, I think I’ve always grown up just being it. Celtic fan as well as a different fan for another team that my very first time being there was actually playing there. So it was always like I’d love to go watch Celtic play and now all of a sudden I’m playing against them. So that moment in itself was a surreal moment. When I got to score that goal for Newport, it was my very first professional goal. So the goal that went in… was not only my very first professional goal of the English leagues. It was your defender, right? So it’s not like you’re… Yeah. Yeah. But if you watch the finish, it’s not like a defender. I don’t know how I done it. But yeah, no, it was something that again, because the significance of what I meant, because with that goal, it meant I got a two year contract. It meant I had a career in football. It meant I got to stay. It meant I had financial stability. And also what it meant to Newport as a club. Now, I didn’t know these things. Newport as a club, if they had have been relegated, they would have had to get rid and sack a lot of players, get rid of a lot of staff members, get rid of a lot of behind the scenes members, as well as the club would not have had enough finances to still be a club. So even in itself, that one goal for me as a personal level, it was like, yeah, I get to have a contract and this is amazing. But for so many people who have supported this club for so many years of their lives, it saved the club. And I never knew that until years after, the more people that speak to me about it. And even still to this day, this is probably why I still work at Newport because of that one goal. It’s something that people have mentioned, saying it was one of the best times ever watching Newport County play. And for that moment to be me, like you say, there’s certain moments and certain things that I meant to people. And because I had that much that has happened through my career and this one moment that people will remember for the rest of their lives, including myself, it happened to me. And because I look at it and say, because I didn’t give up, because it didn’t go against me, because I just kept on going and kept on pursuing it, that is why this moment has happened for me. And I look at it now and I say that in itself, when I got to Captain Newport at Wembley, and we went to a playoff final. That was unbelievable to get to play at Wembley. Obviously I got sent off at Wembley so I didn’t really go according to plan, but I think it was something that really went well. And when I got to play against Manchester City in the fifth round of an FA Cup, that in itself was a massive achievement. Newport had never made the fifth round of an FA Cup before, so that in itself was something that was amazing. So Newport gave me a lot of memories that… Again, I live my life off it now to say football comes and goes, cars, money, Instagram follows, everything comes and goes. But the memories I’ve made in Newport can live with me forever. And I can always have that certain teammate, those certain moments, that certain goal, all them things to go. I’m glad I’ve done what I’ve done. And those highlights in a massive career of, yeah, I’ve had good games, bad games and in different games. But those moments that stand out. Nobody can take them from me because I went and achieved them and true wall against all odds after having the forced open -air surgery getting told I’d never do that makes it that little bit sweeter. Yes. You’re you’re really good at this mark. You’re you’re you’re really good at this game of two hearts is available anywhere that you can buy books. Do you have an official site for it? Is there a way to get signed copies? I think that’s another thing. and people can reach out to me and I’ll be able to get it sent over when people reach out. So again, it was on Amazon and places like that. So I’ve got like a hundred odd copies left here in my apartment. So when people get in touch, I can just send them out. So not a problem. that’s amazing. I’m going to do a really quick outro here and we’ll say goodbye privately, but I just, I can’t thank you enough for being a light in this world. I really can’t Mark. Thank you so much for being. for being willing to be vulnerable, being willing to go through that journey, because we’re all on a journey and sometimes we all need to kind of get the perspective, the relatable aspects. And that’s what he changed it’s all about. So thank you so much for coming on HeCast today. Now, honestly, thanks very much for having me. I loved every minute of it. Okay. amazing. Okay. Stick around for a moment and we’ll say goodbye privately. Okay. That’s why we do, the very textbook definition of why we do HeCast. My word. I cannot, I cannot express adequately how grateful I am for Mark coming on here today and sharing his story with us. And, and, it’s one of those things where this is exactly what he changed. It is all about, you know, candy and her team as they’re building this thing. And again, there’s lots of cool stuff happening. So if you haven’t downloaded the app, what the heck are you waiting for? you know, go to he changed it .com. And you can see all of the links to the Android, to the Apple, whatever your technological persuasion is. You can download the He Changed It app. You ain’t seen nothing yet. It is literally a shell of what it’s going to be, all of the features and the things that are coming in as this thing starts to grow. The goal is literally to change the world, to make the world a better place. And it’s with the same message that Mark talked about, being a light in the world because of the relatable experiences that we as men can have. And… Yeah, that’s just so grateful. So grateful. That has been another episode of he cast the official podcast of he changed it. My name is Mike Chisholm. Go change something.