Virtually Versailles: Museum curator on China-France cultural history

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This year marks the 60th anniversary of diplomatic ties between China and France. In France, the World Heritage site, National Museum of the Palaces of Versailles, stands as a beacon of French civilization, history and the art de vivre philosophy. Now is the chance to remotely discover the palace at The Virtually Versailles exhibition in Hangzhou from May 2 to October 8. On the sidelines, CGTN’s Tian Wei sat down with the museum’s director, Laurent Salome. In an exclusive interview, he shared insights from his travels in China, emphasizing respect for history and creativity. As a bridge builder, he also talked about cultural exchanges between China and France. Here’s that conversation.

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[Music] on today’s world inside intertwined cultures of two ancient civilizations that of the Chinese and the French take the spotlight at the high-tech virtually Versa exhibit in Hong Joo take a closer virtual look and learn friend art and history from the Palace of Versailles Museum Creator lauron [Music] salomi the Grand Canal 2,000 km of artificial Waterway one of the architecture and engineering wonders of ancient China taking an early summer walk along the canal one can get carried away by its tranquility and elegance especially one is in hjo a city described by ancient Chinese poetry as Heaven on Earth this summer this piece of heaven on Earth is embracing the extraordinary charm of France Palace of versailes in an exhibition called virtually versailes I wrote a bike to explore its best [Music] so much to see in versailes riding a bicycle has always been a great experience in Beijing in China but it now it seems that taking a back ride in versailes is a wonderful experience and I told loong salom one of those in the world today who best knows this French Palace Lon salom is a celebrated scholar on 17th century France he pointed me to a corner of the Palace of Rai Mr President what a pleasure to see you here well it’s a pleasure for me and for all my team we are very excited to discover hjo look at here I mean we are literally in the Palace of asai mhm virtually virtually as well idea are there but it’s only virtual is there a corner of this that you like the most oh I like all parts and you know we change it if for each new project we try to find new little things there’s a new section on MAR antoinet which is very elegant I like with a new fabric that we recreated for one of our private apartments in versil that was a recent reconstruction so um but there are lots I also like the bicycles to ride in the gardens I did a little bit of that it was a lot of good exercise by the way and I saw the China angalo Garden also very impressive I like that concept of Anglo Chinese that’s how we we called them in France in the 18th century I’m not sure what anglo-chinese can really mean but that’s a mixture of the English feeling of Nature and Gardens and the Chinese fantasy and sense of landscape so it created that very special type of gardens that were very much in fashion in in the 18 century that’s how people of that time were thinking about one another right exactly it’s their perceptions I think foreign countries and distant countries were so important for the intellectual life I think there was a need to think of the the different and the far away loong salom is a celebrated scholar on 17th century friends he pointed me to a corner of the Palace of verai in which Mahi alanet one of the most iconic residents of the palace showed how she welcomed the foreign culture through the Anglo Chinese Garden this is a space dedicated to Queen Mahi andanet this beautiful lady she is still today one of the most significant characters in The Palace deide [Music] one of the reasons is that she is absolutely found of Chinese and anian culture and the Chinese Anglo Garden has become such a popular architectural style in the pales since her [Music] time the Anglo Chinese Garden is only one of the many pieces of evidence of mutual Fascination between the 17s and 18th century France and China porcelain is another one a much more legendary one that is going on even today Lan salom went with me to an exhibition in the same compound showcasing the art of the white Chinese porcelaines known as Blanc theen and met his friends there uh they say it’s more than 3,000 years from China oh so what is is it a dragon a snake and it would be Caroline it’s porcelin already or is it a different porin already to a certain extent but because of the ages so it Stone like a little bit that’s incredible and it’s a one of the National Treasures can you imagine all the beautiful porcelaines started from the original object always looks a little bit awkward sometimes ugly yeah which is not the case this is not ugly yes it’s very cute it’s probably Scottish oh maybe maybe uh maybe China Europe already working very hard it’s a very good cultural exchange between Scotland and China indeed and the Europeans love Chinese porcelain oh porcelain has been one of the magic connections between France and China first it was a kind of frustration for the French not being able to find that material the K kol to to make band it was a rivalry was an excitement a kind of competition and then when France was able to create their own porland there was this um need to do something as beautiful as the Chinese or this admiration for the colors for the effects that you find and the details the details and then the very funny thing and that’s something you see in the exhibition in Beijing at the Forbidden City is how it goes both ways and then you have the French imitating Chinese porcelain and then the Chinese seeing French por which in a way are more beautiful on some details and they use it in their own Creations indeed and the the emperor loves it right absolutely that’s how the mutual inspiration come from right if they could do it can we do it better well I hope we can do better there than in the past you know there’s a lot of discussion on this are we better than our predecessors I don’t know is the world better now but we can hope well at least we work hard to to understand each other better because for a long time it’s also been um um a matter of competition sometimes War there was not such a big distance between Mutual Discovery and friendship and suddenly a war so I think now of course it could also be the same story but we feel that we’re in a different step of mankind and now it’s all about sharing and understanding each other which was probably not always the the the priority in the past so in that sense yes we’re we’re better we we’re more advanced but maybe they were able to do more efforts and intellectually people in the 17s Century the 18th century were so curious so educated and they read thousands of books and they were so motivated maybe that’s something which is not so easy for us today so we have to take the best of both moments we are already enjoying the fruits of centuries of curiosity but whether we will be able to take one step further being the responsibility of Our Generation I guess but this is a fragmented world as you know very well Lan as a very well-known intellectual from your own country I mean how to make sure that this cultural exchange and this real people to people interaction can be persistent resilient in what some describe as a fragmented World from a president of the Palaces of asai and others how would you think about that well I think places like versil or like important cultural Treasures of each civilizations can help us for that because if the world is fragmented those um examples of beauty greatness openness are so important for everyone I can feel it in in the the the eyes of our Chinese visitors when they come to Versa I feel that they’re living something very special in a way they feel at home like anybody can feel at home in Versa also they they they feel they’re in a very exotic place but in fact when there’s something that that aspires that attracts you then we’ll have we’ll all have to travel to move to go to to discover the you have to have a reason for that if you don’t see any reason to travel to a country then then that that’s when the disaster begins if we don’t know anything about the other countries why are we going to travel why are we going to read the books uh you need to have the little something that makes you want to do it what do you as president of one of the most important cultural institutions once again trying to do now that will leave its Mark for future Generations I’m sure that’s a question you and your colleagues have been thinking about every day when you go doing the concert when you are doing the exhibitions we are trying to redesign in gardens maintain all the best of the past what do you think would be the best to do well it’s true that when you work in a place like ver you have this question in mind quite often not always because all of us we work hard and sometimes we forget that we’re supposed to leave something to our successors but in Versa the the history is there everywhere and you see the marks everywhere you see exactly what Louis the 15 has done what Madame the padur has done what the gardeners have done so and you see if it has gone through centuries or if it has disappeared if it’s went out of fashion very quickly so you have a sense of what’s important and what’s not and it makes you very modest but also it gives you ideas to know what what can be true authentic and sincere and maybe that that’s the things that remain and my main goal for vers would be to go back to its authenticity because Versa has changed so much through centuries what we want now is make sure that we have the right object at the right place the right atmosphere not reinvent Versa we have to really respect the real thing the real history and that’s when I feel okay when we know that a room looks exactly the way it should and we know that there has been a mistake maybe 50 years ago it’s been changed it doesn’t doesn’t work and when you have uh for instance an acquisition that makes you recreate the room perfectly then you know it’s it’s for a long time that’s a lot of work it it’s a difficult work and also everything in a palace like vers is very expensive when we locate a little chair that has belonged to maranet in one of our private cabinets you have to pay millions to get it back to versailes because it was sold After the Revolution so everything’s complicated you have to locate things you have to know what’s the priority you have to negotiate and that’s only one little as ECT of what we do then we have the exhibitions we have all those virtual digital projects because if you don’t do all this the result will be that the place will disappear it’s it’s not standing by itself it takes a lot of work it takes visitors because if we don’t have visitors it will be the end of everything so it’s not um it’s not given it’s a lot of work but all the people who work there are so excited about it that they work a lot L I’m very impressed by the words that when you say it’s not a given no that’s very true and that’s something you feel in a in a big place like versil you realize and you see the history also of all those people who’ve given so much and worked so hard to save it because it could have been destroyed many times After the Revolution during the wars just by forgetting to maintain it if you don’t spend the millions every year to maintain the roofs and the and the fountains and everything it will be a ruin in just a few decades so you have this feeling of um fragility uh even if it’s huge and and and splended magnificent but it’s still extremely fragile another point you mentioned I also want to echo which is the history of both uh the Palaces of asai and also the Forbidden City like the Palace Museum both went through hundreds of years and there were enormous amount of historical events happening uh some are very dramatic some are devastating so uh now when people go there how to make sure this history uh can be reflected through a gigantic symbol like the Palaces of asai like the fidan city I don’t know how you think about that it is true that the the those places also embody um sometimes a very tragic history because history is everything it’s good and bad times and um with those great places of power because that’s what the Forbidden City is or or Versa you you you can feel the wars you can feel when you just see Napoleon appearing some somewhere in ver suddenly you don’t realize why you’re in the Queen’s apartment and then two rooms further the crowning of Napoleon that that just that makes you realize that it’s been a very complicated story even if you don’t see any trace of the revolution in Versa we don’t show any trace of that because there’s none it’s only the missing things but you can guess that also you have the throne room without a throne even the carpet has disappeared and the beds in fact have been recreated because it’s one of the things that people during the revolution have destroyed in priority beds were the symbol of the of the monarchy and the Tyranny uh so you can feel the emptiness the things missing and sometimes you feel also that something strange has happened in this country and you you feel that when you visit the place and same thing and the Forbidden City and also I believe in the power of objects I mean when when you have a real precious special object it it speaks it you just have to to try to listen with here but they yes they say so much the object they’re living they have a soul and they’re very important the Palace of versailes has transformed from France seat of power to a topnotch museum the scenes of historic halls and Gardens are always reminders of France ancient National Treasures but the performances of the royal Opera House of versa for example like this Labor Day holiday presentation in [Applause] [Music] China it’s a clear picture of how the public today is fascinated with cultures of their own and Beyond National borders [Music] when the concert is being held people from all over the city come over and pass by they can hear the music if they visit some of these buildings they can see the exhibitions that’s what we can feel of hjo even though we don’t know the city very well yet it’s so open and there’s a very um particular space open connected with nature again the city is a very easy to live city and the architecture everything has open spaces and it reminds us of versailes with all those perspectives and open spaces so um it means that it’s all conceived for meetings and discoveries and contacts it’s not closed it’s not secret it’s it’s open to everyone as we speak there are visitors inside the exhibition they’re walking around listening to all the stories related to RI having said that though you know how to do this I mean people talk about cultural exchanges but what exactly to you is it and how to make sure it is not going to be just Skin Deep Well I think cultural exchange is difficult to realize so it if we do it it probably means that it’s a need it’s a pleasure of course but it’s also a need it’s like food it’s like eating we need it we like we like it because it it it feels something very deep inside us I think if we don’t discuss with someone from a different perspective a different culture mhm maybe there are things we don’t really feel and in the eyes of a foreigner you see yourself better you see your world better um and how we work on this is by understanding each other by using the people who’ve been the Pioneers I think it’s all a matter of pioneers you know those Jesuits who were traveling in the time of Louis the 14th to China those scientists um those people who were more open-minded maybe than others and then the rest of people move follow their step follow their steps and maybe it’s not so natural a certain category of people feel that excitement of of discovering something different and then they bring the others with them were there some uh of those individuals or moments in history for example between the East and West that you look into more closely I know you are the expert on the 17th century art I read a lot of about you and also the works you’ve created so tell tell us more about that well I I’m I’m not sure who I would choose we have a favorite story in Versa which is the visit of the ambassadors of the king of Sam and I would maybe choose that King franay who was a very enlightened person and sent this Embassy to vers it’s been a very very important moment for French culture discovering those ambassades with their strange hats and and strange cultures and all the presents they brought uh so in that time I think the the initiative the most impressive initiative came from Asia and then in the 18th century I would take the example of this Minister beran who was so passionate about China a collector a lover of Chinese science and literature and traditions and he really brought Chinese culture into the French spirit so you have a lot of those those people and volter was so important in explaining the French how China was a great civilization I see that you are trying to build up this exhibition and all the programs related uh with the beautiful wind of the bilateral interactions at the very top level between the two presidents so that there will be more real cultural exchanges also I think France and China are very special example of of bilateral relationships and we’re celebrating the 60th anniversary of the Diplomatic relationships between France and and the People’s Republic of China and Charles the go was a Visionary including on on this aspect and those two countries are so different and also so connected uh that it’s very important for us very enriching to work on our dialogues with with the Chinese we have also a project with the Forbidden City right now and very often we feel that the Forbidden City is the only Palace in the world that has that can be compared with Versa that’s something very strange a kind of equivalent in a way how would you describe that what you call as strange yet exciting well I think it’s it’s strange to to to travel very far away and find something that looks a little bit like you even if it’s very different uh the fact that it’s huge and just the grander of of it is common of for the two sides and then the way it’s connected to power and administr but also to poetry and nature and art uh those places are really very important for creation of all kinds music uh decorative Arts painting sculpture of course and I think it’s important to realize that very important strange events happen the same way in two very distant places of of what a beautiful coincidence absolutely it’s like a coincidence the Chinese president is traveling in France at the moment so what are some of the important messages coming from the most well-known cultural institution in France to him and also the Chinese people well it’s it’s hard it’s it’s a responsibility that you are giving me to advise the president but I think it’s it’s maybe a way to bring all the people behind him to just love France for we need that to have Chinese people loving France and we need to have French people loving China I mean it’s so moving when you see these connections we we have Chinese people living in in Paris or elsewhere in France the French who live in China it’s an adventure and and it’s it’s in this way that we will build the future we need to get closer and closer maybe not globalized as it was in in the last decades maybe people were a bit tired of that globalization where you you felt you were at the same place anywhere the same shops same architecture everywhere that’s not not ass simulation globalization that’s not what we need we need to move to to discover and each culture has to develop in in their own Spirit yeah but not alone final question what kind of message would you like to convey through your collaboration with China through your collaboration with other countries well I like our relationships with Chinese colleagues because we feel that the the scholarly approach of what we’re doing is very close in fact it’s much closer than we thought and um um an what way when you say close well I I think it’s it’s surprisingly easy when you discuss with a Chinese colleague we had the the um the experience with the Forbidden City we were in front of object I think and then suddenly we it’s like we we’re the same family when we’re in front of this object you know sometimes we have a meeting and we’re discussing it it can be a little bit complicated but then when we move to real hisory look at look an object then you feel there’s a community I see of of uh Scholars of curators and in front of the object it works and it’s like brother and sister we had exactly that experience at the Forbidden City uh so I I think having a um a real matter of working together is the only thing because you you want to do your job and you do it with other people cultual exchanges are not just about cherishing and appreciating each other’s history but to create and innovate for a more immersive experience today so French so this is the exhibition showing the French lifestyle throughout history look at here this corner belongs to Louis the 14th of course that was the guilded age of French economy and he is known as the king of sun look at the table wear the embroidery everywhere is the sun shining and this is my favorite corner it is known as a place resem bling the b in palaces of verai and it’s known as a corner loved by Mahi andanet one of the most legendary women of course in French history she’s the wife of Louis the 16s she loves luxurious things new lifestyle and working closely with the Craftsman of her generation and brought the French lifestyle to a whole new level and the ful Maga home she loved it according to history of this now it’s time to relax a little bit in this beautiful Corner in honor of Mahi andanet she is the last queen of the Monarch before the French Revolution and it’s time to relax a little bit it’s always good to enjoy life I gu this is why I was really enjoying myself also when walking along an exhibition of French life and art after the in-depth interview with director of the Palace of veride [Music]