Finance and Governance Committee
morning everyone um watching live or watching on recording um just before we get to the meeting proper just a couple of formalities to go through first uh fire evacuation procedure for Hamilton house welcome everyone the fire alarms are tested every Monday morning there are no fire alarms no fire alarms tests planned for today and so should the fire lamp sound it will be for real in the event of a fire please follow the instructions that will be given and congregate on the grass Verge to the side of the quickfit building the fire exits are the main stairwell to the reception area and a separate flight of stairs in the nest Point breakout area reporting at meetings in the interest of openness and transparency councilors and members of the public are reminded that the law permits any person to film record photograph or use social media in order to report on the proceedings of a meeting of the council or its committees when they open to the public the Town Council will record this meeting filming and photography will only be permitted from the area designated no flash photography or additional lighting should be used without prior consent anyone wishing to report on the meeting should notify the clerk or chair so they can be afforded reasonable facilities people under the age of 18 or other members of the public not wishing to be filmed or photographed should notify the Clark or chair and should sit in the area designated for that purpose improper conduct or any disruptive behavior could result in expulsion from the meeting can you also ensure that your mobile phones are changed to silent or Switched Off and are tear to the non-smoking policy for the building and the grounds of Hamilton house um [Music] so that’s that so to receive and consider apologies for absence have we had any yes chair apologies were received from councilors bam and Colby both with reasons provided okay I propose we accept okay all in favor please okay shanus again right so here today we have um councelor grian Parker councelor Wendy Brooks councelor Bernie rensberger and myself counselor Andy Pierce uh from the Staffing team we have James finance and information officer um and Tyler committee clerk um and in the public Gallery we have uh John and Damon who are here to speak about is it 187 point five I think uh yeah so the National Archives application yeah okay right so um so what we’ll do is we’ll have the public forum for if you want to speak to it there if we have the public forum for you to speak to that item and say anything you wish to say and then we’ll bring that item up to the top of the agenda so um you can hear the consideration of decision and then you’re welcome to either stay or if you wish to leave that’s fine thank you okay okay go well I’m not sure what the committee already know first of all can you hear me or do you need me to use the microphone thank you is it switched up sorry can I just hold you I just for uh Declarations of Interest we haven’t done has anybody got uh any Declarations of Interest they uh wish to disclose in relation to this item no no no sorry in relation to the agenda yeah i’ just like to say if it does come up on anything I’m suffer counselor so I got interest there okay uh I have no interest as such but I do have prior knowledge of 187.5 and 187.5 but I’m not part of the project or the application I have no stake in the outcome um I’m just aware aware of a local as a Lo local Ward counselor of the respective projects and that’s the extent of my knowledge um so um but as I said I have no State I have no interest in the registerable OR non-registered stuff and no formal connection with the applicant although we are acquainted as local people um so um and to consider the draft minutes before we go on there the remaining formality um I’ve read the minutes I propose we accept those as a true and accurate record okay all in favor please okay just T needs to beered that’s fine okay thank you uh I think some of you will have some knowledge of what we’re proposing uh but just to give you a summary very briefly so John Elby my colleague to my left Joe Thompson and myself uh we work together on a number of Heritage projects uh the thrust of these is to uh take stories local stories lowest off stories and present them in a digital format and and to make sure that the U material we offer and provide is archived for posterity and just to rehearse a little bit of the background uh So based on support previously from LOF Town Council but also particularly from a question about longevity for one of our projects uh Joe was able to uh make a connection with the British Library who are archiving the projects for a 100 years and from that a connection made was made with the National Archives who contacted Joe as our main information man and said you know we are interested in the way that you’re doing things uh we believe there’s a grant you could apply for and maybe take some projects further now the details of the grant require our group to have a partner uh to help with the financial administration because the National Archives don’t make uh you know 15,000 available to individuals it’s got to be to a recognized group and there has to be transparency with the accounting we’re at a stage now where we are ready to uh go back to the National Archive with we hope Lo of town council’s support and to push ahead with the grant applic ation if we are awarded the grant we would hope that Loff Town Council would help us to administer the finance to keep a a watching brief uh over the financial aspects and in that way help us to deliver the projects the projects um though we can’t say to you exactly what they’re going to be at the moment um there’re still further discussion to be had but they would uh mainly have a lower stuff Focus which brings them within the remit of Loff Town Council just as an aside to let you know we’ve had a not myself but Joe’s had a very good conversation recently with people interested in the history of pakefield and they seem very keen to come on board with that low St count Town Council will require from us some kind of short because you need to risk proof yourselves uh so to that end recently it’s been suggested that we foran is an unincorporated Charity Incorporated association association uh so we’d be then be able to have our own bank account we would hope that we could have involvement from Lov Town Council perhaps uh one of the um Financial people from the Town Council to be a signatory to that bank account thereby ensuring that there’s no uh possibility of any Financial mismanagement within that also you will need to consider the fact of future proofing for the next 12 months at least the the Grant and the application if it’s successful um and one of the questions that’s Arisen is uh I’m going to put it in a very crass way essentially if any of the three of us uh were run over by a bus tomorrow what would be in place to keep the projects going um I can’t speak for for for John I know he’s he’s a great technical photographer uh for me um there’s a group of people at the family history Society who would be able to take on the work that I do Joe Thompson who’s our it expert has looked into and I’m going to get the name of this in correct but basically having it’s like a digital will so you know with all the passwords with all the various bits so writing a digital will and he’s also in touch with a community of it experts the Drupal Community because our projects are Drupal based and a group of those have agreed that should anything award happened to Joe clearly we hope that’s not the case that they would step in to make sure these projects are carried through to fruition so in summary we would very much like your help and support we believe that the approach that we’re taking with regard to archives and Heritage is exactly where people nationally want us to be at the moment I won’t talk about records offices I promise um we now know that we can future proof the activities and the project and we think we’ve got uh mechanisms in hand that will give you the Assurance uh when it comes to financial responsibility John is there anything I’ve missed or that you would like to add I no I think we we’ll wait to see if anything comes out in your discussion as to whether I need to add anything I come to just in a minute Wendy uh just to note uh for introductions um councilor Paul paig has just joined us um no problem no worries um so wend you want to speak um yeah it’s a question really um when you began this project um you had quite a phenomenal take up at the beginning and it grew very very quickly I’m just wondering if that growth is still happening so that simple Yeah question I can only speak of the hour Fallen aspect because that’s the one of the three aspects that I work on pretty much every day what we found was um using Google analytic tools you can measure the footfall you can measure how many people visit your website each week I haven’t rehearsed the figures I haven’t got a um a total figure for you to give but we do get that data monthly um and there’s there’s not a day that goes by without visiting to that website what we also do is a number of social media posts at particular points during the year recently we had Anzac day now Australia and New Zealand very far away from here that might not seemed the most significant thing for us to commemorate but because a number of low St chaps went to Australia before the first world war and died in the first world war we thought it was worth making a post we put out a post on social media highlighting our fallen highlighting the low stoft involvement and we had responses from Australia about that particular thing so while that example doesn’t fully answer your question because I think the numbers are going to be of interest I think it illustrates the point that from time to time during the year we will have Peaks and so when we relaunch a new version we have a peak when we get towards the 6th of June where many of us are involved in the remembrance and the 80th anniversary of delay we will have a peak and when we come to November pretty much for the whole of November we will have a a higher Trend but we’re having people visit pretty much every day and and I’m really sorry I haven’t brought the numbers with me to to able to share does that go some way to answering your question yes it does yeah um I can I sorry can I just ask a followup one um we have actually raised and you’ve raised this well the fact you’re contact with schools so just as without I don’t I don’t need figures but i’ just like to know um is there any way that you can actually look at those figures in terms of age groups so that or that say you have like 2,000 people for example looking at your site is there any do you have any mechanism for my understanding of Google analytics it’s purely and simply a person has visited your website do want to give you an update on the connection with schools though because I think it’s important to to note this uh last year uh Joe and I were able to go to the local education partnership meeting that was chaired by Phil aves from that there was then a further conversation I think John did you go to the east east coast col College okay there was a conversation with East Coast College and we have offered a package to every school in the low stoft area and we’ve offered to do Twilight inset training because as much as we want the youngsters to know about their Heritage through a school it relies on the members of Staff making them aware of it we’ve not been able to deliver that it’s not because we’re not ready or willing or able it’s purely and simply because the person that was organizing it then had to go off and has now come back and so we’re hoping come SE come July or September we’ll be in position to do that inset training for schools once again and The Logical inference is that once we make the school teachers aware if they bring it into their curriculum then it will make the the pupils aware is that okay thank you Dam um yeah so as I understand well Damian’s already um sort of covered the fact that uh this kind of request grew out of previous projects plural that the Town Council funded uh and the academic interest and the TNA interest has come from there um and um in relation to those projects I have personally used the rallen database because um I am interested in both military history and family history less so the High Street stroll on Skyline but I’m aware that David Butcher is engaged with a Skyline project and is providing detail historical information to support the visual stuff on that database um so um I had a read around this and uh I just made some notes which if you bear with me it’s three paragraphs I’ll just read out it won’t take a couple of minutes I put this project concerns a prospective Grant application to the TNA in which LTC would be asked to submit the application in its name and if approved to act as accountable body for the grant but LTC is not being asked to contribute any direct funding or to deliver the project itself the body delivering the project would draft the application but would only submit following sign off an agreement from LTC that it is happy for the vinyl version of the application to be submitted in its name If This Were to be agreed there would need to be a separate funding agreement between the Town Council and the organization which will be delivering the project and the Town Council would also need to consider and mitigate the potential risk should the grant not be delivered in TNA were to reclaim or any of the grant which Daman has already covered um in um his piece uh the focus of the project is primarily within the Parish of listof but the organization um may work with Civic societies and other parts of suffk to roll out elements there as the project grows and whilst the Town Council itself would not be delivering the project so Juris jurisdictional limitations um as such do not arise we would need to consider the implications in terms of the application so not a problem just something to be covered um as I understand it this has coming about because earlier projects Grant funded by the Town Council in particular are Fallen have attracted interest from both academic institutions and the National Archives so there is potential here for the town council’s profile in terms of investing in and promoting local Heritage in a serious and meaningful way which while separate and discreete would nevertheless be complimentary to and entirely in keeping with the spirit of the commitment that we’ve made as part of the Town Hall project to value and promote local Heritage including digital recording um I also understand that conversations have been taking place between the national Aran and the organization that would be directly delivering the project which Damon has now confirmed I would therefore propose that we maintain our in principal support and that we bring this back to June FNG and use the month in between now and then to do two things one to meet with the organization that would be directly delivering the project so Damon John and Joe who’s not here today um for a Q&A to firm up on the specific and the detail of the project including timetable and and the two elements uh in particular that uh Damon mentioned uh finance and risk management it and software considerations and Legacy planning uh and to that end at least one member of Staff should be present to speak to the financial support and potentially the software um so um so just a discussion where we can have more detailed discussion than we can have in a scheduled meeting like this with multiple items on agenda um and secondly through the organization that will be directly delivering the project IE Damon John and Joe uh arrange a three-way meeting or call with the National Archives they have a contact at the National Archives uh so between that organization the Town Council and the TNA to firm up on the detail around Grant eligibility conditions and accountability and to enable all three parties to ask any questions they may have of each other again ideally and member of Staff should be present for that me call and that would be my proposal our second um I don’t know if I can mention um the other comment we had that’s related to this project about the town hall because I see them as separate they are separate they are what I said is separate but complimentary yes absolutely abely not part of the Town Hall project no but they are trying to achieve similar ends yeah yeah I just got a question uh which will be outside of what your proposal is Andy um obviously you look to expand uh the organization what you actually produce um what what I’m wondering is have you actually got involved with any local businesses as to whether they’ll actually contribute towards the course call so you can actually expand because there are companies out there I mean you got local companies that would be having interest possibly to help you well no specifically we haven’t we have for other projects been into businesses but not for this particular one because the National Archive doesn’t require it we’ve got a specific bid to the National Archive um and we’re fulfilling all the criteria or you will be fulfilling all the criteria necessary um but as part of the overall project we expect to have Community engagement which will of course include businesses but we haven’t specifically looked I don’t think not to much we we haven’t and we’ve got had no particular reason to do so because we know how much money we can we need and we know how much money there is in the in in the funding uh strand so and it doesn’t require match funding or anything else it just says essentially what do you want to spend you on um this is how much you get can I just one add one point though is that there is a deadline this this is a Grant application and it has to be U I think June the 25th it opens and then four weeks later it closes so it’s important from our point of view that any deliberations that the council undertakes are done within that framework because if not if it’s not going to happen that fast then we would need to rethink what we’re doing so that’s why the proposal is to spend the next month doing the two things I mentioned bring it back to June fngg which on the current time table unless it’s changed at the AGM will be the second Tuesday in June that can then make a recommendation for Council which will be the fourth Tuesday in June um it’s too late no it isn’t that’s when it opens the ground window opens later that would F perfectly but another month wouldn’t that’s right so if we spend like between now and mid June getting all our ducks in a row then if the decision is yes we’re in a position to hit the ground run and when the window opens That’s the basis of The Proposal okay um and just to come back to Grim’s point so just to reiterate that it concerns an application for grant funding to a third party body so there is no Grant being sought from the Town Council okay so in terms of contributory funding we’re not being asked to contribute any funding ourselves just to support the project in other ways okay all in favor please am I to I missed the beginning of you are if you feel if you feel that you know what the item is and you wish to support that’s fine okay that’s unanimous okay you’re happy with that s okay thank you very much indeed just to reiterate John’s words of thanks and we look forward to further conversations in the next few weeks thank you um if you’re able to leaz Taylor and James with um the body but in terms of the staff representation I think the the two issues that we would want staff to be able to speak on uh the practicalities of financial support are you being an accountable body if it’s approved um we’re obviously an accountable body for projects that we own but this would be a project that we don’t own but you know the mechanism would be the same but obviously you would need to speak to that as staff um and the other one is um it support access to support and soone like that so obviously if if um the people who are running the project you know move away pass away have to step away whatever in terms of the Legacy planning to make sure that we can still access the database to maintain it um software compatibility I know absolutely nothing about so if someone from staff could be there to speak to that kind of thing um right so now we’ll go back to the order in the agenda and we will go back up to um 183.2 uh to consider the implementation of the Town council’s it policy with with regard to email correspondence so this came from uh originally I think from a meeting of personnel and Feb and it was Graham’s proposal and we wanted gr to be here to speak to it and he’s missed a couple of meetings in between which is why it’s been rolled over so um I’ll pass it over to you gr to speak to in the first instance yeah uh basically what what the concerns were not just of myself but others as well uh that basically exchange of information and exchange of opinion was actually happening across on email and people haven’t always got the time to actually sit there and read these things through and any particular issues we felt should actually be dealt with at the meeting rather than numerous emails going backwards and forwards so therefore the it policy should actually make sure that that’s actually applied actually in the it policy um I know people aren’t familiar with many of the policies CU they don’t sit on standing orders but in the it policy it it says I can’t I can’t get it up at the moment but if somebody could find it or share it but it’s actually quite a specific piece about um not over long emails on there there isn’t anything about not I do agree with you about not having discussions and sometimes you need to in a working group you need maybe to exchange quick ideas um I mean I think that is a problem with very very long emails very very long and that seem to be replicating what should be discussion but how we get around that I don’t know yeah it’s not so much the length of them or the shortness of them is the fact that we should not actually be conducting Council business across on emails so because it can’t it can actually people’s own personal opinions when they’re exchanging things on emails could actually impact on a decision and the way other councils may vote so therefore it should actually be left for the meeting I I agree with that I mean there are things obviously that you know you might say can I put this on the agenda which is an opinion but it isn’t actually discussing policy or anything like that so there’s a distinction between having discussions about helping the council run more effectively and and um expressing a I I’m very actually although I support it I’m very lucky I’m very reluctant to actually I don’t know really because I think there is a problem it’s how do you decide what is an opinion and what is somebody sharing facts and that’s my issue is more about the length of emails and nothing to do with um I think separate to actually say oh that’s sure I think that’s tricky area for us to actually um well I kind of agree as far as it goes um but I also have opinion with the language and tone of certain emails regardless of the lengths um and grimer said there is a danger depending on the views being expressed um that they could be interpreted as internal lobbying in some cases so I just made some notes for this item uh I wasn’t at the February Personnel meeting um so I only know what I’ve been told of what happened at that meeting so um but I can’t comment firsthand so I would just comment as follows I put the meeting that prompted this item referred to three specific items that were submitted in January 4 Council these were detailed written proposals containing dates and figures for review of confidential staff terms and conditions circulated in advance for counselors to consider ahead of the meeting and were expressly not for prior discussion on email uh the subsequent email from the mayor to the acting Town Clerk and Personnel informing them of the outcome of that meeting because the ACT in town clerk was not allowed to be present for that discussion um was sent on the instruction of and on behalf of for Council Sarah then circulated a briefing paper to February personnel which overlapped with the January 4 Council discussions but also included a number of unrelated additional Staffing requests I replied with commentary on the financial aspects of those requests ahead of the meeting because I knew I was not going to be able to attend the meeting but it was about what funding was in place to support it not an opinion on whether it should happen or not um any issues relating to this specific correspondent should go back to for Council or Personnel respectively and is not for this committee to consider as it had no involvement in that correspondence but in general terms um what I’ve said is personally speaking I’ll send relatively few emails around the whole Council and such emails as I send tend to be limited in distribution e EG to membership of respect particular committee subcommittees or working groups dependent on the subject matter in general terms what email corresponden is regarded as necessary versus unnecessary will to some extent be subjective which I think has been alluded to um but in in what Wendy has said it can be interpreted in different ways um and I believe we should respect and trust each other and not try to censor or prescribe each other’s use of email but if we do want a general discussion I could certainly point to some of the emails that I have received which have little or nothing to do do with Town Council email because I would certainly regard those as being unnecessary um and that would need to form the part of any such discussion if that is what a majority of members want I suggest that we refer the matter to for Council for consideration without a recommendation as the subject matter will concern all counselors all committees and members not just fngg or we could simply propose to for Council that we ask councilors to be mindful of the council’s policies regarding use of it and email and Endeavor to keep unnecessary email traffic to a minimum that’s that I haven’t made a proposal that was just my notes and I wanted to get my thoughts straight before I read it into the meeting Wendy did you have your hand up as well BR I will do after Wendy so Wendy then well I I think this is a mine field um and I don’t think we can decide it in this committee particularly when there’s only five of us but if people read the it policy it is in there about not over usage of emails there is also something about the way that emails are written which I take issue with that’s not to do with the content so much as the way they’re written they’re very poorly punctuated very poorly spelled many of them that reflects very very badly on the Town Council um there was also something that appeared online naming me um which appeared to be written by Town Council which was truly shocking I shared it with Sarah I don’t think most people look at the page that I’m not going to name um it’s absolutely shocking some you know it’s not it’s not a kind of that might be seen offensive it was deeply deeply offensive um I think it’s a big issue this about how we use social media how we use our emails so if Andy’s proposing this goes to full councel I will second that yeah this specific item was just email I agree with you about social media Wendy but it’s not strictly speaking the agenda item but I I totally age with you I know what you’re refer policy yes it is but this item was was emails between counselors I think um but I agree with you um uh but I have also received emails I would stress um which I would regard as unacceptable in terms of language and tone um and they would also need to form part of any wider discussion if we are going to have a wider discussion so I would propose well i’ I’ve suggested it’s one option one option is if we want a wider discussion we send it to full Council without a recommendation the other option is that as a proposal we send it to full councel to remind them of the provisions of these policies and ask them to keep unnecessary traffic to a minimum but without actually seeking to um censor or prescribe their use of email when that would pretty much be unenforcable anyway uh in the way that the policies are but we could draw it to their attention and ask all counselors to be mindful so uh Wendy if you want to say like I agree with it going to for Council but what are you asking specifically to go to for Council well uh to draw people’s attention to the policies and be mindful or to have a general discussion on something which you have acknowledged is a mindfield no this I would like to draw all council’s attentions to the policy because I think everything is in that policy that we need it’s just that people aren’t aware of the policy then on that basis I will second right okay when this is discuss it wasn’t aimed at any one particular individual or even two individuals because I think most of us are probably actually guilty of it uh so I’m happy to actually support going to for Council not having a recommendation through this committee uh as long as it’s discussed and I think as Wendy just said all counselors were actually refreshed of the it policies I agree all have done it at one time or another to varying degrees it isn’t individual counselors but what I’m saying is Wendy’s touched on and I wholeheartedly agree with if you start a general discussion which is censored on looking it individual counselors Ed of email and potentially prescribing and sensor an email it becomes a mindfield and it’s one that’s impossible to enforce so we have to trust each other but there is absolutely no harm and I think it’s very timely to draw councilor’s attention to the relevant provisions of the policy and ask them to be mindful and limit unnecessary uh unnecessary emails and also unnecessary should we just say wider it use is that acceptable yeah obviously we’ve got the policy but how’s it going to be policed that’s exactly what I’m saying gr you know there are issues where we cannot directly enforce it we cannot police some of these policies because some of the issues are covered by code of conduct okay Andy can I sorry Andy I I was that we’re talking about Town Council emails now we from counselor to counselor coun discussion I mean in my experience most people are respectful and and and thoughtful with their with their responses on email I always thought correct me if I’m wrong doesn’t need policing because I always thought that the Town Council officers have sight of those emails anyway all of them so surely if there was a problem the officers would alert us to those problems now we only get sight of the emails we’re copied into we can’t see emails between councilors directly so I agree which is part of my proposal is that we can’t and I don’t believe we should be unless it’s issu where personal views concerned but not sub matter whether that opinion whether is L and whatever like there has to be some degree of custom respect uh and also the fact that different people have different styles there has to be that acknowledgement but there is no harm in drawing people’s attention to the policies and to the specific provisions of the policies regarding Etc email use P language Etc and asking to be Mon and on the bis one thing I did suggest was that before after the AGM that um I kind if we agreed to do this or not but after the AGM we have a number of policies we have reduced the number and we’ve put them in together to make them less burdensome but the key policies should be um all counselors their attention should be drawn to them so there isn’t like I do think that some counselors have no experience of how to operate properly in as a public representative they don’t understand it um that might sound insulting but I’m afraid it’s you know not many but like they’ve never performed a public role they maybe haven’t got much experience of attending meetings all that sort of thing so they need we need a way that um we can actually say no this isn’t your back this isn’t your back Garden this isn’t the playground this is actually you’re actually here because you’re a representative of your community so there has to be some understanding now I did make a suggestion that we actually adopted our own bepoke code of conduct I haven’t got very far with that no because that don’t yeah I think I’m answering Paul’s question about releasing but you’re also but you’re also stay on to another item the suggest was not for an alternative code of conduct um that one was withdrawn what you what you were saying was that if we had a code of conduct the monitoring officer would have to be the administering official it would still be a statutary oppos you were going to go away and speak with Sarah about what might be possible as an alternative to deal with things short of a code of conduct complaint that wouldn’t infringe on the monitoring officers uh statutory responsibility and if you could identify possibility that would then come back to fngg for consideration but there has been nothing come back yet so there has been nothing discussed and agreed so Paul because I think it’s a I haven’t actually got my head around it at all because there’s so many restrictions but if that potentially we have to have a way of um policing yeah I mean people can if they’re upset by something we share it with the officers so officers can then intervene there are ways that we have but maybe people right respectfully we’ve gone off topic now we’ve gone on to a previous topic that was dealt with the issue here is about email use um and um to consider the implementation of the Town council’s it policy specifically with regard to email correspondence it’s not the wider issue of um abuse or someone being upset or telling other counselors how to be counselors that was a separate discussion and there’s been a resolution there and if there’s any proposal to come forward that needs to come back and be considered separately so we’ve had a proposal here and it’s been seconded which is that we are going to make a recommendation to for coun we are going to send this to for Council to ask for Council to draw members attention to the it policy and the specific Provisions regarding email use and ask members to be mindful of those Provisions that was The Proposal that was made and that’s the proposal that’s been seconded so can we have a vote on that please okay that unanimous budget and Loan 184. one to monitor the budget in 2324 including delegated committee and subcommittee budgets um we we had a latest version of the budget uploaded to I can’t remember what it’s on agendas or members area um members area so as anybody um bearing in mind obviously the updated version of the budget will also be circulated ahead of full Council does anybody have any comments um actually it says 23 24 should that be 2425 yeah um does anybody have any uh comments on the 2425 budget at this stage bearing in mind that we’re one month in um or they happy with it as it stands and propose that we just continue to monitor yeah okay question no simple question um we do say we’re open and transparent with our budget so why is the budget on the members area not on the main agenda because it’s got um people’s rents in is the main reason so I think if we um during the coming year we can we can potentially discuss having the full version end up public version that has details of um leases and Rental stuff um taken out or redacted yeah we can have that discussion uh and look to implement that over the coming year yeah good if we if we just discuss it for potential imple implementation put the teeth in during the coming year and leave it at that for now that you okay with that James 84.2 to note any Bank reconciliations yes March has been completed April needs to wait until year end close down okay thank you um payments and receipts 185. one to note the income and expenditure reports for April 24 and May 24 to date including payments made under delegated authority J yeah so these still need to be produced and need to wait till year end closed down on Thursday to actually put them to the software so should be circulated Friday okay so what happens then will they go to for direct to for cancel okay um 1852 are there any payments for approval I haven’t seen any no okay uh grants and sponsorships 186.000 to note the receipt of the following Grant applications to consider whether they require urgent consideration 18 Luke’s W Pantry for 2000 Wendy I can’t remember if this is urgent but if um if they need the money now I propose we we give it to them now because it was that’s that’s it yeah I second I believe the they requested the money be available for June um I believe generally with the food relief budgets from what I’ve been told that I I believe some funding has been paid for another year over the winter but there’s no funding for the summit for those who need it uh which is probably why this request has come in earlier than we would typically be used to um so uh I’ll second that proposal all in favor please okay sh animous um summarize Film Festival Wendy um I’m actually have to confess to be quite impressed with the the progress that has been made on this um from being a bit sniffy about it when it first came to us a few couple of years ago um they’ve stuck at it and they seem that I think it’s very good that they’ve managed to team up with the marina theater for um the next showing because that will increase Their audience no doubt so I propose that uh we approve the £5,000 um a but to reduce the burden on one budget if you’re agreeable my proposal will it’s 50% from Grants and 50% from Community engagement yeah uh from the Arts budget well Arts and Heritage um I would tend to leave that because we got the dry and rack one coming and and things like that um so yeah so you happy with the 50 grants 50 Community engagement okay uh and I’ve put subject to confirmation that other grant funding cited in the application has been secured I believe it said that it has but I want to make sure I wasn’t misreading that and it would say that it’s been sought uh and subject to the provisor that all the venue and event applications like they mentioned Marina and one or two others are also in place so subject to the other things being in place to deliver the festival I the other Grant fund and the venue permissions um uh our second Wendy’s proposal uh with the five ,000 coming 50% from Grants and 50% from Community engagement all in favor please okay can I just add that Wendy um well one of the out one of the locations is actually as far as Nest have we have we received an application tomorrow morning’s agenda I believe okay yeah just to note for everyone’s information as well the applicant did confirm that they’ve secured the external sources of funding as well right could I just raise one general question I did actually raise it last year and I can’t remember what the answer was if we come up with one and that is that we obviously thought the first month into the year uh maybe into the second um last year if I remember rightly we ended up with a situation by the time we got to about periods eight we ended up spending a lot of the grant money uh I just wondering whether we actually and I can’t remember whether we did it or not whether we actually developed a process to prioritize the grants that may be come in over the year because if we spend all the money in the first part of the year I’m concerned we might have something we might have a shortage of funding for those that might be set more essential that come in in the latter path yeah it’s it’s valid comment um we did we spent within the gr budget last year but by a few 100 quid you know so it it was close um but the the agreement was that we would go for a standard application I think we would go on a quarterly cycle but we would allow time sensitive or urgent applications outside that cycle so that’s why these were on there with the caveat to decide whether they are Urgent or not so one of them for the food bank is requested by June because there is no um wider funded support in place to cover the summer period because I think the funding covers it’s broadly speaking commensurate with the warm like October to March the winter period um so and and I’m am already asking questions through the Community Partnership to find out um because um LOF rizen is no more and I found out fairly late only in about February or March this year that they also provided some direct funding to the fish uh food and school holidays last year um but I don’t know how much and I’m trying to find out whether the people who would be Min administering coordinating this after um L off Rising um whether they anticipate uh a funding shortfall for food relief in 2425 um and whether our food and social relief budget risks being oversubscribed I’ve been told that that information on what they anticipate the total funding need to be should be available by June um if it is then I’ll then bring it back to the Town Council to say do we think we do anything here but I have no idea because I have no idea what the amounts are going to be there’s different people involved um low of food networks that exist but I think it’s been run by Community Action suffk but obviously that there’s an agreement with the suff council so um it’s just it’s difficult to get hold of all the information at the moment which is why I asked for the information at the last Community Partnership meeting from the community team find out what is happening in terms of low stof Food Network and coordinating all these to make sure no one falls through the Gap but I understand they are particularly concerned um about the summer period um I think I think funding has been sourced for the winter for at least another year um but I understand there was more of a funding concern over the summer period so this one came in and requested the money in June um the one for the film festival um is time to take place also third week of June um because the demand was that it take place in the summer so it’s been moved to the summer but that of course has pushed the cost up hence the larger than previous Grant application wend did separated out so we have a a food Grant pot and we have other grants which was part of making sure that we didn’t end up in November with absolutely no money left and I think we’ve gone over by about 100 quid which isn’t bad is it for oh have we not I thought I oh no maybe it’s adding in may as well but because we have is it 50,000 in our grants po yeah maybe I misread it but there’s something there’s a kind of tiny amount but that might be because it’s adding on 23 24 as well so we’ve actually done very well so we’re mindful of that of like not kind of spending all the money immediately yeah but it’s about point we had had the discussion so the last thing that um routine applications would be cly but uh applications that were time sensitive or urgent would be allowed in the meantime if they could demonstrate that there was a a need for an earlier decision um so 17.1 to note receipt of the 2024 now model Finance regulations and agreeed time t a for consideration and adoption so I made some notes on this one because we reviewed the existing Financial regs uh in the standing orders and policies working group um within the last two or three months uh and I made a number of points for Amendment there’s things in there that we’ve never done uh there’s other things that are becoming OB obsolescent um and Sarah suggested that rather than make detailed amendments now we wait until the new model regs are out because we might want to adopt those with or without Amendment so um I believe they may be out but I think the time scales are prohibitive to try and get those approved ahead of the AGM which is next week so my proposal therefore is that we recommend renewal of the existing Financial regs for two months from the AGM to the end of July 2024 noting that they are obsolescent in Parts uh and comments have been submitted and therefore on the strict understanding that either the new regs are adopted or revisions to the existing regs are adopted um or sorry that either new regs or revisions to the existing regs will have been considered and adopted within that time are by the end of July and that’s my proposal that I suggest we send to the AGM next week second no I’ve got a question um um where are they did they come out with um I haven’t I haven’t seen the new mod yet but I understand that out so but I have a feeling I could be wrong that they might have been in last week’s counselor update but I don’t know I don’t know but because there was something from now in there but either way the times now would be prohibitive for us to read through and consider a detailed on ly model document now and and ask for it to be adopted at the ogm next week which is why I suggest that we allow ourselves that two-month window from the AGM to the end of July but we but we’re not but we’re not proposing renewal for a full year as we would do with most policies we’re proposing it for two months to allow us time to consider the new model regs um and decide whether we’re going to adopt them with or without Amendment um or amend the existing regs um But whichever option we Pro we to to make that recommendation on the basis that the newly adopted Rags whatever they are will be in place by the end of July um and as I said that I propose that we send that to the AGM next week and Paul has just seconded so all in favor please Grounds Maintenance uh 188 87.2 um so the next three items um have basically come from um verbally from Paul and Johnny um as they believe these are needed over the next year not um not necessarily urgently and I said I would get them on the agenda because in at least two of the cases um which will come to when we do the original items I believe they are financially supportable within the existing budget even though we have not um expressly budgeted for the items um but obviously we can only consider maximum budgets because we don’t have a spec uh or any quote Gran yeah and I wasn’t quite sure where bring this up but I think this might be the suitable item to do so yeah uh We’ve have actually correct me if I’m wrong we have actually discussed in the past about actually hiring our services out to other parishes y uh could I actually propose that we actually make sure when we have the budget and Loan group resurrected for the next year’s budget 2526 when we start discussing that that we actually work towards actually hiring our services to other parishes so can I suggest that as a starter we put it on the next FG as the parent group of budget and loan because we’d also need Paul and Johnny to speak to that item as well I think uh so get some input from them on feasibility and time scales um and and obviously there’s Haring out and there’s working with and cost sharing so obviously what how we intend to approach this there would need to be a discussion around that Wendy it’s a good idea but I think our staff are too pressed with what they’ve got on at the moment to even just cover but it isn’t for today no which is why I said but on the next agenda to start the discussion ask Paul or Johnny to speak to it and what time scales they would regard as feasible I agree they’re not place to do it like imminently but what what would they regard as a timetable to work towards if it was feasible go on the next agenda that’s my suggestion yeah um right so um I thought we discussed the van before no so I’m going to um with 187.5 I’m going to take BC and D first and then go back to a if that’s okay so no the um just to clarify Wendy the the vans that we discussed before are the two uh well one was a van I think one was a Tipper truck but uh that were being leased uh so we discussed the leas and Arrangements we we had um we had funds ring fenced in general reserves for new leases in 2425 uh not for existing leases they’ve got an existing budget um and so that went to for Council to agree those So what had been proposed here so bear in mind in this discussion that on the old Outsourcing schedule we had I think it was 41 or 42 assets all except three the three being a community Halls were Parks or Open Spaces um spread over quite wide geographic area the there were also a number of assets which were not on the Outsourcing schedule so key among them would have been the Town Hall in the marina theater um 14 allotment sites which we don’t directly manage to manage under lease but we still support them with capital Works Capital upgrades dealing with Legacy problems um and um so our number of assets if we take the allotments individually will be between 50 and 55 if not one or two more so it’s in the 50s um so what the staff are basically saying is you know they have the Vans at the moment if two people are out on one side another one might want to go to Elm Tre or out the other end of town to do some work there um without each having to wait for one of the Vans to free up um and the proposal was made that they feel they could get a good a a good quality secondhand van of trans Transit size or smaller for less than 10,000 and I said okay I’ll put it on the agenda and see what people think Wendy I think that’s a very good price for if it’s you know a secondhand van 10,000 quid sounds uh like a bit of a bargain so I propose we approve it right so I I’ll second and what I’ve put is I I would second um uh but on the basis I’ve put we we have we have 30,000 ring Fen in general reserves for new vehicles in 2425 of which I think round about I can’t remember if it’s just under or just over 24K has been committed against year one leasing for two other vehicles so I would propose that we expand the ring Fen allocation by 5,000 you and allocate the unused balance from the existing ring fenced amount plus the additional ring fenced amount to make up a 10,000 maximum budget for the new van with a delegation to staff to agree the spec and proceed with purchase within that budget are you happy with that Wendy y okay then I’ll second on that basis okay all in favor please okay that’s unanimous um right the next item is threefold right so mowers so again large number of open areas large area um we currently have four mowers um the mowers came to us um I think they were given us to that by the previous Outsourcing provider but they are at or approaching end of life um Johnny and Paula said they they should get us through to next April but they are unlikely to last another year beyond that so we are we are already going to have to look at replacing those four or five those four mowers in 2526 they believe they need an extra two they believe they need six mowers to keep on top of all the work we do and bear in mind that it’s part done in house and part outsourced at the moment so um there is a cost management benefit to having the two extra mowers um so and I think out of the three they felt this was their most urgent requirement was the Moa so um G I have I have got proposal written down but if you want to speak first I I don’t know how much these things cost but we’re talking about six probably quite no we’re only talking two now the other four would be next year okay so it’s prob I don’t know how how much they cost but has anybody considered the options of renting even yeah not for mower they say for for the next item the air R they’ve said yes for the mower they the suggestion is it’s not feasible um there was a suggestion that 10,000 each but they think they could probably get it for eight or less so but the but I said we I’d put it on there to consider a a 10K budget for each but if they can come in a couple of grand or or more under then all power to them we don’t use the extra money um so um think we need to deal with them individually because depending on whether we’re going to approve one or two but also the budget allocation would have to be different so I have got James looks like there was 20,000 ring fenced in the capital EMR for mowers for this year let me just open up Brian yeah obviously when we purchase them we they got maintain them would that be maintained in house uh that’s a I think maintenance yes they would be but um but there is a a separate proposal to consider mainten C for all Machinery um which budget James sorry General Capital yeah don’t matter y well on uh well in that case we have already provisionally allocated as James said 20,000 um which is ideal because um so um that’s kind of negated my proposal because I was intended to use the contingency um in the uh GRS maintenance budget and we won’t need to now because we’ve made express provision for ride on mowers um so um you proposing you prove it yes but but I think we need to do it well I said we need to I think they need to be individual requests because it was are we going to do one are we going to do two um and and so I think the per item expenditure has to be per mower because some people might have said one or two and in my proposal I had a separate budget allocation for each and obviously now they would come out of the same ring fenced amount um sorry I’m getting lost we have a ring fenced amount for 20,000 yes but we don’t have a per we don’t minute M um so that’s has that been we’ve put it there the money is there y these the m cost between 8 and 10,000 each y um as we can only spend up to whatever but as it’s ring fence do we have to do we still have to go to full Council to get this approved well we can approve up to 10,000 per expenditure item but we don’t have a quote so we can’t approve the expenditure so I would um if we had not expressly done this I would have proposed that we do this as individ two individual items because the budget allocation would have been different in which case it would have been 10,000 per item as we’ve got a ring fence budget for two I would suggest we deal with it as one item which is above our per item delegation to approve so but I would say um if we um so that we are not perceived to be trying to get around our per it delegations I would propose that we authorize a 10,000 budget for one ride on mower um with a delegation to staff to purchase immediately if they feel the need is urgent if they don’t then it can go with the other one which I propose goes to May for Council on the 30th to approve the expenditure from budget all right so the budget is there so um but if but if we if we if we if we send it to May 4 Council to uh we recommend to mayf council um that we um we we approve the purchase uh at a maximum cost of 10,000 per mower but obviously we hope they can bring it in qu with a delegation to staff to source and purchase y um yeah all right Wendy I can see you please don’t wave your arm around like I’ve missed you all right um that was The Proposal but if the ground staff feel that one of the mowers is needed urgently that we use our per it and delegator to authorize immediate purchase with a delegation of one mower with the other request going to fall cancel Wendy who at the same time might be get a reduction so let’s ask them to consider that if they can get um cost benefit by buying two um but as they did feel this was urgent if they if if there is no benefit to buy two because it wouldn’t be considered a a bulk purchase if you like to and and there’s it makes no difference one way or the other um buying two separately or two at the same time um then if we give them the freedom within that proposal to purchase one immediately if they feel the need is there uh and just them one to full councel if there’s no immediate need send both to full councel because we’re authorizing expenditure up to 20,000 for two MERS from that item with the delegation to staff to Pro um progress the purchase okay but yes if we send it with a request to just check out whether there are any um whether there would be any cost saveing and buying the two at once so all in favor pleas okay that’s unanimous um and the last one was the airator I I don’t know a lot about this and I haven’t seen the spec uh I believe this is primarily for management of the sports facilities do you want to speak to it J so I spoke to Paul and Johnny about this this morning for the Bold screen they think they can use the Dennis mower in the short term okay rate it’s the football pictures that’s going to be an issue okay they’re hoping to hire some equipment in Autumn this year to get it done and then look forward to next year when it he’s doing again but it might be worth uh budget and Loan considering it’s well that’s ideal because that ties in with what I’d written down was I proposed that we ask staff to provide a spec and indicative quote um uh sorry that uh what put yeah that that we ask staff to provide a spec and indicative quote for outright purchase plus alternative options such as higher lease for year one with purchase in 2526 um for consideration by June fngg to make a recommendation to June 4 Council so that would fit with that timetable would it not okay Wendy right okay I didn’t understand what J what this thing is initially I thought it was for the pond no obviously an air is not for the p no that’s the I know what you’re on about that’s the airation device yeah for the my understanding is also not the best I believe it’s to oxygenate soil and make sure there’s water FL for the grass yeah so similar principle yeah but A8 and soil instead of a and water thank you Al I would suggest if it’s something that you’re really going to use once a year and I have had experience of these in football footballing terms surely you’re better off always hiring that because if you’re only going to use it once a year it’s not worth buying potentially yeah we need to look at the cost of hiring versus purchasing that’s might a bud loan decision so I think that was The Proposal if they if they tell us what the comparative costs are um and and we look at year one Higher anyway because we haven’t expressly budgeted for a capital purchase for this Capital purchase um that ties in with the discussions James has been having so that we would at least look to hire this year um and then I think part of the discussion about cost effectiveness of would need to be how many foot pit how many football pitches what frequency in the year like is it a one-off thing or is it multiple times over several months that this would need to be used um as James said if if if we um if that can come back to June fngg if James can ask Paul and Johnny to provide that information in time we can make a recommendation to June for Council and then they can have a decision in Time ahead of the Autumn when they need to act on it so did anyone second by the way okay only second all in favor please okay that’s unanimous right so now going back up to 187.5 a which ties in with what you were saying Graham to consider the cost and budget allocation for the service cost of ground maintenance Vehicles which would include the motors do we have a briefing on this one so I think this I if you’re not aware James and Taylor I I think this might have been on at mind instigation because there were some on cost that were included in the leasing for the two vehicles that we did before which uh like included the Tipper truck um and no insurance has been spoken about in terms of the road vehicles is that we’re going to need to move to a fleet insurance which I think sailor uh Sarah is taking forward so obviously insurance is a a specific budget item anyway um but um fuel we’ve got in the climate budget as um Fuel and um any kind of fuel allowance whether it’s travel expenditure or fuel for our vehicles um there is a budget for anyway um so could we just ask for some information from Paul and Johnny on what the oncs are for the so we we have got uh in the grounds maintenance budget there is a 10,000 contingency for um accidental damage and breakages and there’s another 10,000 for undefined contingency but outside of that could they give some information on what the on cost of Maintenance and upkeep bar of all of our vehicles and Machinery um so that we can and then bring it back to June fngg so we can look at whether we’ve got express provision in the budget or whether we need to ring fund addition Bon is that okay so 187.5 to consider approval of the expenditure and budget allocation for 1,236 for an ecology report for the marina theater project come to you in a minute Wendy so this was discussed at the last project committee meeting it would be funded from the grant the issue is that the funding agreement has not been signed yet there is no reason to think that it won’t be signed imminently but until it’s signed it cannot be drawn down Wendy made the comment which I’m quite happy with that we we ideally like to get this moving as soon as possible because once we commission it we don’t know what the lead in times would be for it to be produced um what would be desktop what would be site visit so like that I believe it would be done by the wildlife trust not 100% on that but I believe so um and um so the suggestion was made which I said I was happy to go on the agenda was that um the Town Council might wish to directly fund it in in initially to get it moving and then once the funding agreement for the project um is approved and we can draw down that that would then be reimbursed in the budget from the from the project fund from the towns fund money Wendy well I mean principal reason I wanted us to kind of give them pay the money and then re reclaim it is to do the time sensitivity of this project that’s it’s a very tight time scale and getting the marina work done with the towns fund deadline so that was why um I should declare I’m a member of several Wildlife trust at this point who are possibly the people who are going to commission the report possibly we don’t know for sure I believe the East suff Council officers mentioned their name but I don’t know for certain that they would be the author of the report so if Wendy could just declare it out of an abundance of caution shall we say yes right so I make that proposal then I agree to go on there on that basis to get aov so I do propose uh that uh approval to be funded initially from the 2425 climate and ecological emergency budget um but on the basis that um once the town funded agreement is signed and we’re able to draw down on it that that would be reimbursed from the project fund okay Paul seconded all in favor please okay that should [Music] an 187.5 to consider a recommendation to Council on Grant and sponsorship opportunities with the International Boat building training college so before we move to this one some of us were at a meeting with the ibtc uh and there is a paper in the members area um can I just ask that we don’t mention any amounts or discuss any specifics at this time unless we are actually thinking of making a recommendation on the proposal um you know uh until it’s agreed um I mean I have some notes here that are sort of spoken in general terms and I think there are two bits of further information we need before we can make a firm recommendation Wendy well um I mean like Andy I’ve met these people and listened to their uh proposal looked at their organization I mean I’m more than happy at this stage to definitely consider a recommendation to full Council depending on the grant which we haven’t finally decided that we actually this this um not only is it a training opportunity for for kids it’s also and young adults or whoever it’s um it’s kind of securing a bit of a maritime industry in Low stof by the sort of training they’re doing so I think we should absolutely be behind this I I agree and it’s not just Heritage actually I think for for PE for people who may consider that they don’t have a Heritage bone in the body it’s about actually training employment and skills opportunities for local people to get them into entry-level employment within a certain industry so those benefits so even for people who feel well I don’t really give a monkeys about Heritage there are people who might give a monkeys about that um so the reason I said I also agree in principle so what I’d written down was I would propose in principal support on the basis that the B would be to sponsor to training would be to sponsor training for people living within the Parish of L to complete the ibtc program which I believe is 47 weeks and gain entry level employment in the local Mar in the local marine and Maritime sector even if ibtc practice is to provide standard practice is to provide 50% bseries the indicative figure would provide a 50% burer for two local people each year um but ibtc have expressed willingness to discuss further and have also said they would be open to offering a further discount for local people so I propose that we should hold an additional meeting or call with ibtc to firm up on what they can offer and the associated cost and start date uh then bring this back to June fngg to make a recommendation to June 4 Council and hope to secure a decision at June 4 Council um and if the recommendation is to approve sponsor ship to agree on budget allocation for year one at that meeting yeah I’d like to second that proposal right I’m second it okay then so everyone happy with what they’re voting on okay all in favor please okay do unanimous um right so we’ve done 187.5 because we took that to the top of the meeting so actually we’ve got one item left uh 187.5 to consider the Town Council submitting a planning application to sensitively recreate the original 100y old wall abatage and 127 High Street lowest off that’s the building that fronts onto the uh sales site or alternatively submitting a statement to highlight uh that third party has undertaken this work on behalf of the council um East suffix pre-planning application gance refers right so Wendy I do have some background to this do do you want to right I know yes right so this is what I’ve pre-written so Ventura cot just submitted a Grant application to the Town Council for part funding of a project to recreate the signage on the third party owned wall facing onto the sale site of the triangle Market subject to planning and owner consents and subject to the balance funding being secured this is going to June FG the applications come in it’s go to June fngg indicative benefits would be public realm Community Heritage and also to the Town Council in terms of backdrop to the triangle Market but we don’t own the building in the meantime I suggested to Joe Ventura Cottage that they seek advice from East suff Council rewat planning and other consents might be required by the principal planning Authority East suffer Council have replied to Joe and said that to qualify for a fee exemption either the pre-planning application would need to be in the town council’s name or the Town Council would need to send an email confirming that Ventura Cottage are carrying out the work on the town council’s behalf whilst individual Ward counselors might be supportive of the project in principle they are not directly involved and have had no direct conversations with either East suffer Council or the building owner and the Town Council has not yet taken a collective position on the project so it would be problematic potentially to provide anything which suggests that the Town Council has commissioned or would be delivering this project so I put I propose that we ask our staff to provide an email to East suffer Council planning the name on the letter to respond um uh in response to the letter that East Council has sent to Ventura Cottage confirming that we support the project in principle subject to planning and owner consents and balance funding being secured and that we’ve been that we have been approached to part fund the project but that a decision is pending but we have not commissioned the project and would not be delivering it ourselves as a potential part funer and owner of adjacent land that would potentially benefit from public real enhancements that we would be happy to submit the application for pre that we would be happy for pre-planning advice to be submitted down on name on the strict understanding that the project could only proceed subject to the securing of planning and owner consents and balance funding if this would qualify for a fee exemption propose further that if e suffet Council clarify that this would not qualify for a fee exemption that we asked Ventura Cottage to submit to the Town Council a separate Grant application to cover the cost of the pre-planning fee in their name uh and that this goes to June fngg with the other Grant application the reason for the two Grant applications being that the application to cover the pre-planning fee if approved would be for immediate payment whereas the main application to part fund the project if approved would be conditional on planning and owner consents and balance funding being secured and even if approved no payment would be made unless those other prerequisites are first secured and that was my proposal ran then Wendy yeah um as I’m one suffer Council I’m actually on the planning committee as well well okay I shall not be voting on this that’s fine yeah Wendy um I think it would make a very very nice backdrop to the triangle Market um it doesn’t seem like it’s gonna mic actually been approached money um I think we do what we can to support this so if so I second your proposal we do exactly what we can to try and make this happen Okay so you’ve got the specifics of my proposal yeah or you can get them off YouTube yeah I can send you my email if you want the wording yeah um right so does everyone know what they’re voting for yeah okay all in favor please um so that’s four and Gran’s abstaining because he is not only a w counselor he’s actually on these Stu at planning could be as long as we can have a cavier Andy that the the owner of the house doesn’t take it down and sell it in America yes yeah well if we come to approve the grant we might any Cav that’s like that we might want to um say at that time right so date of the next meeting um is uh subject to confirmation of the meeting timetable at next week’s AGM will be 11th of June at 10:30 uh items for the next agenda other than those that we’ve already agreed during the course of the meeting go on any others um if anyone’s got any now shout up otherwise can you email them in um and as we’ve got no confidential items we’re done