Behind The Scenes. Organising Running Races – S02E05

I talk with Ellie Gosling.

Ellie, along with her husnband Ian, runs Barnes Fitness. They are the organisers of many of the races I have run over the years.
We discuss what goes on behind the scenes to put on events like that, what support they receive from government and local authorities and touch on Ellie’s own experience as a competitive athlete.

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On today’s podcast Ellie goling Ellie along with her husband Ian runs Barnes Fitness they are the organizers of many of the races that I’ve run over the years we discuss what goes on behind the scenes to put on an event like that what support they receive from government and

Local authorities and touch on Ellie’s own experience as a competitive athlete enjoy the conversation Ellie welcome to the podcast thank you let’s explain who you are in a bit more detail uh through the medium of your Podium because your Podium might be one of the most famous

Podiums out there because it’s the one I’ve stood on in front of a duck pond uh and I should elaborate it’s not really a duck pond is it that that we put it in front of it’s a no I think we need to it’s Black Swan Lake yeah black SW

Actually it is Black Swan Lake if anybody that’s uh local to reading so if you’re listening to this in Ohio or somewhere um this isn’t going to mean much but it’s it’s Denton pastures Country Park Black Swan Lake I don’t think they have any black swans left at

Black Swan Lake do they I I don’t good point no I don’t think I’ve seen any yeah I think they’re extinct look let’s get this back on track um so Ellie you you run races that that’s a confusing sentence I organize races there we go running races

Uh many of which I have attended and I when I do them or anybody’s races I tend to think this must be pretty easy to organize you know you just tell everyone there’s going to be a race and and then everyone jogs around you give them a

Medal and a and a Kit Kat and they go home and well indeed yeah so I thought it’d be fun to find out what what it is because nearly everyone’s probably going to have done a 5k or a 10K or a half marathon or something so yeah we’re

Going to kind of dive in and see what goes on behind the scenes um but start off Ju Just explain how did you get into it because it’s not the sort of thing that when you’re at school you say uh yes sir when I groww up I want to run

Races well you say that but I was actually involved when I was at school and organizing a bathon in the days of blue Peter and uh Gary liner came along to help me uh launch my the first ever blue Peter bathon and I was involved

With that how I really got into it in latter life um was through Triathlon so I um started competing in Triathlon after becoming an injured Runner um so I used to run quite a lot um would do the local events used to take part in the shinfield 10K uh did the London marathon

And then got injured had some pretty horrific stress fractures in my foot um and then a friend of mine said to me Ellie you need to try Triathlon because you’ll get less injured um I’m not sure that’s quite the truth but um was are very sensible

No let me give you that piece of advice no um so I did go into Triathlon less running so there’s less impact that was the theory um so not pounding the streets six seven days a week or whatever I was doing um it’s more cross training so obviously doing swimming

Cycling and the running so it’s was less stressful on the body um and I got into Triathlon on quite a big scale uh did local triathlons did really well at them then decided to try and try my hand at um going for what’s called called the age group World Championships um so

Where you can represent Great Britain um for your age group at the World Championships which I managed to qualify for in my first year of trying um back in 2012 uh that event was in New Zealand I didn’t choose a local one in London or

Somewhere easy to get to no um this I know this is very long answer of how I got into race organizing but um and then I thought I really want to go to this event but I can’t afford it uh it’s a lot of money to get there to get my

Transport my bike there for pay for accommodation everything the whole kit koodle um so somebody I can’t actually remember who but somebody said to me why don’t you organize a 5k as a fundraising event because you’ve got loads of people that you know that run you’ve got loads

Of friends that are triathletes they’ll all come and pay 20 quid Run 5K have a cake sale do a raffle and you’ll cover your costs so that’s basically what I did um and that first ever fundraising event was at dton par pastes it it made

Money then because my my my gut feel to that if someone suggested that to me I would think yeah that doesn’t sound like a good business plan like P to just give me money as a fundraising appeal I think they wanted to do something to show something that they

Were doing in return for giving me money and something they loved um and that event did actually make five grand um but that event was I think most of that was probably from the cake sale to be perfectly honest because people love cake because Runners love cake um and

The the expenses back then were a lot less than they are now it has to be said um and the overheads as well as we didn’t chip time that event for example um and Chip timing an event costs on average ,200 pound per event um so that’s it’s pretty much a requirement

Nowadays isn’t it for if if I do a race not chip timed it would it would be a bit kind of yeah school school fake kind of thing yeah exactly there are a couple of kind of halfway houses with the whole timing you can use an app based timing

Similar to what they do for park run um where you get live results um uh but it isn’t a chip you haven’t got your time from when you cross that map um so yeah basically I organized that event and I really enjoyed organizing it I went to

New Zealand had a great time on everyone else’s expense um and then grew it from there to be perfectly honest thought I want to see if I can make a business out of this um and at the time I was personal training that was my business

Um so I set the business up called barns Fitness as a mobile personal trainer and I was going around in what I called my Postman Pat ban and had a array of torturous equipment in there to make people fitter and stronger um and then the events business grew um uh dton

Pastur became my second home and I’d spend most weekends there organizing events of some description and that was kind of how it all started and 10 years later 12 years later we’re still going we should we should set the scene for anybody for for our International listeners in particular wondering what

Denton pastures is um let let me sell it to you many years ago uh in order to I think I’m getting this right in order to build the M4 Motorway which runs from London out uh they dug huge holes in the ground to dig up the gravel needed to

Build it and then they had holes left over and thought well we’ll just fill those with water uh we’ll add a few black swans hope the foxes don’t get them and white there are actually there’s yeah about five or six Lakes there and it and it then slowly transformed from being

Basically a gravel pit filled with water to being what it is to today which is a an an an attractive Country Park um it also benefited from the fact that every other Green Space within 100 miles disappeared and so relatively speaking it looked more and more attractive over

Time so that’s dinton pastures it’s basically a bunch of lakes uh with um yeah trails and trails and it used to have a golf course golf it did in fact as a as a as a small child I used to walk in the little stream beside the golf course picking

Out the picking out the the balls and and then selling the balls back to the golfers um indeed Entre absolutely yeah wearing my braces and flicking from my f facts I was about 23 when I was doing that I think um with your black bre yeah

Do a dating this terribly aren we um so so the thing that I’ve always wondered the two things that that spring to my mind when someone says yeah I’m going to run anything as a business that is their hobby or or the thing they enjoy doing

Is is well the number one thing is how long does it take for that to to just turn into work because so many people I talk to especially in my old life of of of of doing Financial Services people would set up a business based around just their passion and before they knew

It they were just pulling their hair out because it it wasn’t their passion anymore has has that ever happened or um I am lucky I think and saying that is has always been Sport’s always been my passion and I think it always will be um but there are have been times where

It’s been hard and those times are when I’ve been injured so when I’ve had I’ve had some pretty major things like uh stress fracture in my hip and I’m trying to organize an event on crutches and I can see the high the endorphins that everyone else is getting from taking

Part in my event and I’m hobbling around on crutches in pain because of the of Sport Basic you’re not looking like a very good advert either are you for running no I’m not um yeah there’s some lessons I could share with people um but so I think

That’s my that per for me personally the bit that I find have found tough but the passion I still is still there um and that is because the people what I see when people finish um one of our events and the feedback we get from people that

Take part in our events about how much they enjoy them how inclusive they are how friendly they are the events and how much how well organized um and generally that you know that is what keeps the passion alive and they certainly are I mean i’ I’ve done many of them and and

Enjoy them uh immensely um the the other thing that that I’ve only recently found out really because I’ve I’ve kind of paid some attention to it is is how much hassle behind the scenes SC red tape and so on there is involved and you in the past I

Would go and do an event and and especially if I had things like road closures and i’ just sort of wave nonant to the Marshal as I ran across a road that they shut and give it no thought but but when I stopped to to to do that

And and kind consider the implications involved it occurred to me that there might be a bit more red tape to it than I assume there would be what what what goes on yeah what’s what sort of things are going on behind the scenes that people wouldn’t humor going on to put on

An event like that so as soon as you say the word road that is when you enter a whole world of red tape a whole world of um what’s called a safety Advisory Group which is something the council is a a collective of people from the council the police

The fire the ambulance environmental health um there’s one other I can’t remember it right off the top of my head but you know pretty preservation of preservation of badges or something Birds swans yeah does this run go past a badger Nest or something yeah there is environmental health and um they definitely get

Involved with it um and you have to sit in front of that board of people and show them your plans are robust enough that you personally so I personally have done everything possible to reduce the risk of somebody getting injured and that isn’t just my people taking part in

My event it’s the general public as well so I’m not just thinking about the four or 500 people that are running One Foot In Front of the other it’s however many people are driving around reading on a s Sunday morning trying to get to the shops it’s the impact that our event has

On the community so there’s loads to think about as soon as you go anywhere near a road um and you have to be qualified to uh manage traffic and that’s not the police the police won’t do that unless it’s an emergency situation um so they will they

Are insured to uh manage traffic in a Blue Light emergency situation but they’re not insured or qualified to manage traffic for 400 people running to and from a brewery on a Sunday morning which we organize in Reading R from Phantom Brewery um so you have to employ

People that have what’s called a chapter eight qualification and they have to come in and man the traffic for you and put stop go boards up or whatever traffic management system you’re using for an event um and I’ll be totally honest any event that I put on on a road

I don’t sleep for the week before because there’s just so many things that are out of my control um I can’t control every driver on the on the road I I just can’t do it it’s impossible I can’t control that that bus there isn’t going

To stop in front of a runner who’s just going to cross the road when they shouldn’t be crossing the road you know there’s just so many different parameters or somebody’s going to reverse out of their driveway and not see my Runner coming across um so Road um events are a headache unless you

Completely close the roads um so if you think of the larger scale events like reading half marathon woking him half marathon London Marathon any of those you massive scale events but as soon as you close a road the implication cost implications are uh prohibitive for a small event organizer like me um we

Close we used to organize the Woodly 10K um suburb in reading and we did close a short section of the road for the start of the race but just to give an idea the traffic management for that event alone small 10K Village 10K 5600 people was

Three and a half thousand um and if you’re only charging people 25 quid to enter it’s you know and that’s just one expense for an event there’s lots of other things to take into account your first aid your chip timing your medals your your water and your Kit Kat um all

Sorts to toilets if you’re hiring in toilets uh everything’s got yeah it’s interesting because I I I’ll see some events where people will will complain or moan about the the quality of the medal and they’ll say you know I paid 15 quid and I got a you know a cheap

Looking medal you think well how on a minute you yeah 15 medal there exactly as you say the toilets and the the the all the gear that’s on hand and yeah medical yeah yeah yeah no and the medical year there’s strict instructions that we have to follow with how many Runners we’ve

Got of how many med um medical staff we have what type of qualifications they medical staff have they can’t just be Like Your First Data at work they’ve got to have a certain level of paramedic qualification or some events we have to have a doctor on site and then you also

Have to have an area that you can treat people on site um and some ambulance vehicles are not um insured to take people to hospital it’s yeah there’s lots of ins and outs that you have to consider um and sometimes you’d have to call a 999 ambulance instead it’s yeah

Yeah no it sounds it sounds it sounds it sounds crazy actually it’s funny you mentioned Woodley because Woodley um Woodley 10K was the first uh 10K I ever ran under an hour at so has a a special place in my heart um and it’s my PB

Course before I organized it I took part in it and it’s still my PB it’s a nice it’s a nice flat course um it is yeah but it’s just a lot of cars um yeah for you that’s a worry for me that’s just um

I I feel like kind of a New York Bike messenger just dodging between them um obviously you don’t want to hear that um what what’s interesting is when and I know you don’t you don’t run sort of ultramarathon type distances but when those I for example I did the the 100K

Temps path last couple couple of years running I didn’t do it last year but but but Jen did it last year and there are sections there where you’re just literally running in Pitch Black middle of the night you know 1:00 2:00 in the morning you’re running along a river

Bank there’s no Marshals around because you’ve seen a marshall 5K ago and there’s another Marshall at the next stop in another 5K you’re just a kind of you’re on your own do you have to carry a phone do you have to carry yeah you

Have to carry a phone but if you fell in the river it wouldn’t float with you I mean they must I mean yeah that their insurance and their risk assessment would be an interesting read I’m not saying there’s something wrong with it but it’s how you would could for me it’s

How I could stand up in court if somebody had had a life-changing injury or God forbid lost their life how I personally could stand up and courau and say I did this this and this to stop that happening um there there’s always going to be that element of I couldn’t

Have uh controlled that um but you’ve got to make sure you have controlled everything possible but it’s an interesting point about running through the night and yeah yeah there’ll be disclaimers as well I’m sure you signed disclaimer to say read it but I would have signed it um exactly read the

Fine print here I mean it’s interesting because the first time I did that run uh I was incredibly dehydrated at one point and dizzy and and I was really having to focus hard on going in a straight line and not falling in the river and it it did occur to me

That I’m I’m I might well fall in the river and that would be that’d be terrible um what’s interesting is you can swim though can’t you Mark I can swim yeah I actually fair enough you say that a lot of people because I I don’t do triathlons because I hate swimming a

Lot of people think I can’t swim the amount of people that email me and say oh I could teach you to swim I’m like dude I was a lifeguard I can swim just I can very well I just hate it um having said that at 2:00 in the morning

Dehydrated um I’m not quite sure how well I would swim whether you can swim yeah but it’s interesting because it because to me I’m I’m thinking forget the waivers forget what what I’ve signed I’ve I’ve put myself in this place if I fall in the river tough like me but I

Understand from the organizers perspective they’ve got to have considered as you say have they done everything necessary to to to avoid the obvious which which kind of brings me to the thing I mentioned earlier about about Parker and the defibrillator I had I simply had no idea

That every park run uh and and for anyone who doesn’t know what park run is it’s it’s the the free uh Saturday morning run around a park that’s organized in the UK they’re everywhere in fact this is always interesting because when I yeah yeah it’s interesting worldwide because I talk

About this and people in the UK say yeah Mark we know we know what park run is but then somebody in Tennessee will say I’ve never heard of it it’s just just sounds like a park and you’re running around it it’s a bit more organized than that um they have to have a

Defibrillator on hand so someone has a heart attack and needs to have their heart um shocked back into life he started and they can’t run it without it and it was interesting because I I first discovered that in a a Facebook group where someone said we we’re canceling

The event and and this is why and a lot of people were just saying well that’s ridiculous cuz I could be running around the park and a heart attack anyway you know and and it it did make me realize that there is this this uh gap between

What we as Runners just think oh we’ll be fine and what you as organizers need to say we have to do it anyway yeah is the differ is that a park run thing or is that the same for you guys the same for us yeah we have to have one so um

Our Medics bring one and it has to be within a certain distance from the furthest runner on the course at any one time so if you’ve got a kind of a half marathon for example you would have to probably have more than one defib on the course so that everyone’s within that’s

Interesting so so presumably if you’re doing something like an ultramarathon the aid stations might have one on Route yeah or there’ll be a medic on a uh motorbike floating around that might have one um and covering a section that will be his section Char it’s fascinating because actually the

Last the last ultramarathon that Jen did 10K to go her Garmin stopped working I was in in Henley on TS at the finish line and she texted me to say the Garmin had packed up so I was waiting to her to finish so I being the the hero husband I

Am ran 10K in the opposite direction to find her and I was running using using my own garmin’s torch to see where I was going um actually you’ll be quite impressed with this as a runner I did a I did a 46 minute 10K in in with the

Back in the pitch dark across along the river navigating with my gin um so it it was it was it was heroic but it but it but it did it in the winter or the summer was no it was autum it was it was autal yeah it was it was um it was

Exciting my my point was though that that had she been in an emergency situ I mean to be fair garming going down that that you know some people would think that you not all that nonsense so it was a minor emergency but had she been in a

Real medical emergency yeah it did occur to me wow it would genuinely take um 46 minutes for for a pretty decent person to get there and now clearly as you say there might be people kind of scooting rounds on motorbikes and stuff but but it’s a sort of thing that again you

Wouldn’t even think of you don’t think about and I personally had experience of that actually when I was taking part in um Iron Man Wales last year and I personally had a medical issue and was similar to you very dehydrated and can see straight and uh about 60 miles into

The bike decided that I needed help um and pulled into an aid station and was helped off my bike and definitely needed help and they called for an ambulance and that ambulance took 45 minutes to get to me because the roads were closed and the ambulance would have to co

Against the flow of the cyclists and the ambulance wasn’t prepared to do that because it wasn’t a life-threatening issue I mean I was alive and breathing I wasn’t unconscious um so they had to basically Drive part of the course to get to me and it took them 45 minutes to

Get to me I wasn’t in a great shape when they got there but I wasn’t dying that’s for sure um and the guy just said to me when he got when he got me into the ambulance we’re going to take you back to the race village where we’ve got a

Medical tent and stuff but we’re not going to put you on Blues because uh all the roads are closed and we’re just going to go with the flow of the cyclists so you know even when in a medical emergency it’s still really challenging for the medical no I

Wouldn’t even think of that but but as you say if you’ve got to get somewhere and all the roads are closed um it’s like it’s like sending out a safety car onto the onto the Formula One Track or something exactly against the flow of the cars you know it’s just B they would

Have done it if it was a yeah life-threatening and they needed to get a defib they would close the race and get the but then you’d have felt really bad yeah yeah worse I thought you say it took 45 minutes because uh Wales now has a 20

Mph speed limit across 95% of it but um but yeah haven’t they I think Wales have changed all their 30 mph limits to 20 mph limits 20 oh wow yeah because in fact there was this is getting slightly outside of my area of expertise it’s St

David’s day as well we should be talking about it today I I I it is first of March congratulations to everyone that c celebrates that people um they uh they have some problems now with people uh doing cycle races like sportifs and stuff in Wales because the because the

Bicycles they they can’t go fast they’re going too fast for the speed limit so the bicycles are going up you can cycle a bicycle over 20 mph quite easily if you’re a good cyclist and they’re too fast technically I think the law is that a bicycle is a self-propelled vehicle so

It doesn’t need to adhere to the speed limits um but but equally the organizer said that’s true but we probably should adhere to the speed limits average cyclist is doing 25 miles hour can’t do it through that Village anymore so um Wales slowly um wow alting Cy having

Said that if you’re rubbish cyclist uh it’s probably beautiful now you’re fine um so so you actually with your your your dehydration thing that that’s just an interesting one just kind of diverting slightly did you learn anything um from that a lot drink more water electrolytes what was what was the problem

Um various things 25 degrees in Wales that never happens on in September so that was kind of a freak condition but you always got to prepare for the freak conditions um so several things I learned I didn’t drink enough Before the Race and before the race I mean like the

Two to three days beforehand um I was very much in what I call mum mode my three kids were there I was looking after them making sure they were eating and drinking enough and I just hadn’t drunk anywhere near enough when I say enough when you’re training going into

An Iron Man you need to be drinking three to four liters a day like the two to three days beforehand and I was probably drinking a liter and a half to two of that um so yeah I went in dehydrated um I did the fat not fatal

That’s the wrong way I did the thing that I tell everyone that I coach or give advice to uh I did the opposite I tried something new on race day um and that was I took an em modium tablet on the race morning um because I’d had a

Bit of an upset stomach the night before and loads of my friends who have done loads of Iron Man said oh Ellie we take them anyway just so we don’t have to stop on the bike you know it’s just what we do so that fine I’ll take an on

Modium no problem I’d never taken one before um I don’t think I responded particularly well to it and actually basically an em modium does just dehydrate you and stops you yeah an modium I am I yeah I can’t remember where I read this now so so I am and

People that that listen to my channel will find this uh no surprise going to be talking about something I don’t really know much about I I I I was always told that if you take an a modium because it slows the the transit of everything through the system it also

Hampers your body’s ability to absorb things so you’re taking on maybe good nutrients calories whatever you require but you’re not actually indeed so yeah I think that’s true and I think that same with fluid you’re not actually getting it in there goes so yeah that was not the

Greatest and then um my I think the final kind of straw that broke the camel’s back was literally the straw on my bike bottle um had a massive kink in it so I was taking regular what I thought was drinks um I couldn’t I couldn’t I can’t see into my bottle it’s

Not a clear bottle I it’s a dark bottle I can’t see the fluids in it so I was just taking regular sips thinking I was getting quite a lot but actually when I finished after four hours nearly four hours on the bike four hours of competing in total I’d only drunk half a

Liter wow in 25 degree heat yeah so no wonder I wasn’t feeling too great and if you just your body was ruined side is an interesting one because I I’ve done a couple of longdistance bike rides and because you’re cycling along and any sweat that you are sweating is getting immediately

Evaporated off in the wind yeah you don’t kind of feel hot and sweaty um absolutely when you’re running you you know I often think I’m I’m dripping wet it kind of reminds me I need to be taking on fluids but on the bike I did a ride last year I think it

Was last year where I rode from one side of the UK to another and so it took took me hours yeah Chas chase a sun um and I forget how long it took me but but it was you know set off at half four in the

Morning and I arrived um at Sunset and yeah my weight dropped hugely my my body weight dropped which would would all have been fluid loss uh I mean it’s when you take your helmet off and it’s just wet up there and you go oh yeah that’s where it’s all being because it’s not

Kind of Dripping into my eyes and stuff like it is on a run and again I was having to I even programmed My Gin bike computer to to beep at me every half hour and say drink um I had that yeah and I thought I was getting enough but

Clearly and yeah lots of less you need to pay attention to as well cuz I I once programmed my Garmin to beep at me uh to give me that take on calories warning on an ultramarathon and it it was beeping at me so often that I just got bored so

I started ignoring it and I then ran past a turning it would have been beeping at me saying you’re going the wrong way but I was in the kind of mentally I was ignoring it yeah and 2 and a2k later I realized that I’d run 2

And a2k the wrong way and so my my 100K Ultra became 105k um so don’t don’t make that mistake folks um no the the um the ambulance getting to to the people is again it’s the sort of stuff you just don’t even think about in interestingly I’ve done some ultramarathons in Wales running

Over the mountains and stuff and you’ll be given a a list of Kit to take that they want you you obligatory kit that you have to have and there will be people you online in the forums beforehand in the Facebook groups and stuff saying you know I’ll just show

Them at the aid table and then you can you can get dump it in your car afterwards you don’t need to actually run with it and there are times where I’ve been in beautiful sunsh down in the valleys and then you you run up into the mountains and and suddenly

You’re just surrounded by mist and fog and you think you know what if I did spray an ankle up here or or or or Worse um you know I’m a 50y old man Anything could happen to me um yeah I’m just going to well hopefully they they they

Leave me alone because I’m vegan so we’ we’ we’d have some sort of kind of mutual connection yeah guys I you so don’t nibble on me um but but it it does cross my mind that that if I’m up there in the cold and I’m waiting for someone

To get to me having my space blanket to wrap myself up in wouldn’t wouldn’t be a bad thing and if I left it in the car thinking i’ you know clever me I’ve saved 200 grams from a backpack no indeed I I deserve to get eaten by the Sheep um and there’s

Another safety point I was thinking about actually talking about the ambulance and one thing I’m really kind of strict on our races for safety is earphones um so people running with earphones and there’s one reason I’m quite strict about it and these are the ones that actually put in your ear not

The ones that the bone conducting I’m quite chilled with those I love that you’re going to talk about this cuz I have strong strong opinions on earphones you I’m gonna let you no you because I I’m I’m well well I’ll spoiler alert I hate earphones in races so so from so

Yeah carry carry on well I think we’re on the same wavelength and the only reason or one of the most fundamental Reasons I’m so anti- them is one event of ours we did need to get an ambulance out onto the course this was at Inon um

To get an ambulance out on the course of somebody who was in need of urgent medical attention it wasn’t a sprained Anor they needed urgent medical attention and um the ambulance car was right behind a runner who had in ear headphones obviously on very very loud

And did not hear the ambulance and they had to get one of the paramedics out to then actually get this Runner to move out the way to so the ambulance they should they should that is just Number One D over well they did think about it but they

Thought end up with another Casualty that we got to deal with it’s good it’s good that people hear that because I hear uh from from especially from new runners or or people that are um in this sort of um you the the slower end of the

The scale uh all the time that they can’t imagine doing a race because some races say no earphones and they they how could they possibly do it and then what happens is they go along and yeah they think no one’s going to see them a little you they set off and they put

Them in afterwards yeah afterwards and it it infuriates me I I’m going to tell anybody out there that’s thinking I can’t run without music I guarantee you you can because you’re a human being and that’s what you’re supposed to be able to do I I used to I I fell into that

Trap I understand it completely that where you become just uh Reliant upon it out and and I would have to almost train myself I would go out and yeah going to a 5K and you think I won’t turn my earphones on for the first kilometer don’t take them with you and before you

Know it you’ve done the 5K you forgot about it uh actually what’s quite useful is you might actually discover that it becomes a useful time for you to have some sort of just just mental heads space yeah just some quiet time uh I often come up with lots of my ideas for

Videos or or kind of funny on liners while I’m running because I’m I’m having conversations with myself from my head and don’t you wish you’d have pen and pencil I have that so many times when I’m swimming or cycling that’s a good idea I must remember

That I have a little I do voice notes all the time I think of funny things to say in videos and I it annoys Jen immensely because sometimes I have a you know occur to me in the middle of the night and I’m now talking into the into

The phone say this funny joke um so no if you think you can’t run without music you absolutely can and I’m a huge fan of music I mean there’s no question if I’m in the garage and you know on zift or something and I’m trying to crush a

Cycle ride absolutely I understand it completely and and at our events we have music at the start finish and what I am introducing this year actually on especially at dton where we’ve got a place where you go over at the bridge twice and if you’re doing it the 10K you

Do it four times I’m going to put a big speaker on that bridge and you’re going to hear that for quite a good chunk of your event so whether you like my taste of music though that’s a different question well actually that that’s interesting actually because because the

Other thing that I mean having said that the ambulance driver should have driven over the person with earphones uh the other type of person that that needs to just be hunted down by somebody in a car and driven over is the person that runs with a Bluetooth

Speaker I mean Goodness Me Do Do you ever are you are you ever that one yet I tell you what no but I can tell you where it’ll be going in Black Swan Lake yeah Black Swan Lake i’ I’ve done a few Trail runs and and I’ll be running along

Just enjoying the the kind of the Primal Freedom running through a wood yeah and then suddenly I hear just this kind of techno Bas coming up behind yeah there is nothing more in my world yeah so if you’re someone that runs with a Bluetooth speaker um yeah find I mean you might

Not live near pleas don’t come no indeed find your nearest lake and throw yourself in it with with the speaker please um no it’s interesting you mentioned that that that the the earphones thing is is a funny one um also talking of of slower runners the

Other thing I hear second to I can’t run without music is I’m not fast enough and I I fall into two camps that there are some there is I’m in a couple of Facebook groups for very slow runners and what is a you know what it’s interesting I’m not going to mention the

Name of the Facebook group because um they get they get quite excitable um but but it’s a group for people that are just very slow now and and many of them would join and then and then ask the question what is very slow and what will sometimes happen is somebody will say oh

I did my first 10K hour and a half and people say that’s outrageous you’re far too fast to this group you’re shaming the people that take you know four days to do a 10K and so so I I think there is a point where you if you’re going to S

Up for a 10K and you literally think you’re going to have to walk the whole thing then there are some people that say no go for it you know you you you deserve that um opportunity as much as anyone and I think no you don’t uh there

Comes a point where you aren’t if you aren’t able to at least jog most of it simply wait until you’re ready in the sense that I’m learning I’m learning guitar at the moment um I don’t feel that I should be able to turn up and go

To like an open mic and just and and annoy people that know wait until you’re a bit better and then go that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be learning guitar it just means there’s a time and a place to demonstrate that having said that fact there are also people that say if I did

A 5k it would take me 35 minutes or a 10K might take me an hour and 10 and I think well absolutely go and do it what are you talking about you can so many people think that you need to be racing and flying around these things and you

Just don’t but that is their racing so why should they be welcome that’s you know their their it’s their effort not anyone else is it’s what’s good for you my my only caveat on that is we do have a cut off of generally it’s about an

Hour and a half but I’m not kind of like if you’re going to do it an hour and 31 this is for 10K um if you’re an hour and 31 I’m not going to let you finish um and but the reason I give that kind of

Cut off time is for safety um because our events are at night it’s starting to get dark by that hour and a half window um and we’re in a country park that’s got a lake very similar to the temp’s path um so I just need to make sure that

I’ve got everyone in before it does get dark um because people aren’t prepared prepared to run in the dark with torches and things um and it’s also for my volunteers um because they want to know roughly how long they’re going to be volunteering their time for and they are

People that are giving up their time for free um to make sure that the event goes ahead safely and people are having fun um so I want to be able to say to them that you’ll be done by 900 p.m so that’s my reason for giving a cut off but as I

Said I am pretty flexible I think we have had somebody actually in the past who’s done an hour and 45 and we’ve made it work with the marshals that we’ve got there and my husband will go back and be the tail Runner to make sure that you know they get to the

Finish safely um and those people I value just as much as the people that are crossing the line in 35 minutes um because they’ve had to work a long they’ve had to work hard way harder way harder if it takes you if it takes you

An hour and a half to do a 10K you are working harder than I mean I’m not I’m not crazy fast I’m a sort of 40 minute 10 okay which is some people will hear that and think that is that is very very fast respectable but other people will

Not but but I can do a 40-minute 10K and and five minutes after I finished I feel all right and I’m now jumping in the car and going home the guy that’s doing an hour and a half is still out there still grinding away and not only that when he

Does finish it’s going to take him three days to recover so absolutely the people the people that are towards the back are are doing in a way a different tougher event than anybody else yeah um I see this with with events and the good example is the temp’s path some people

Will sort of run walk that event from from the outset and they’ll end up coming in you know the day after I’ve finished so I’m at home kind of moaning about how my knees ache there’s someone someone’s still out there running yeah yeah I’m moing and their story is

Probably in no disrespect probably so much better than our stories as to why they’re doing it and how they’ve got there and the journey that they’ve been through to get to that Finish Line it’s going to be so much more absolutely yeah no indeed so so I I mean it’s

Interesting I I I chatted to a guy on the podcast uh last week who was American guy 450 in weight uh got himself down to 220b so he basically he lost more than my weight in weight I just jogging yeah Jog and he’s now running I talking to

Him just he went off to Moab and ran a 50k in Moab um so no people people do have those incredible Journeys which kind of ties in with another reason why people should go into a run even if they don’t think they are fast or even kind

Of moderately fast it sometimes being on a fitness journey whether it’s a weight loss one or not just being on a journey of improving yourself can be a little bit lonely you know you go to an office and everyone else is stuffing themselves with cake and they couldn’t care less

About you know being fit and healthy and maybe your family are just saying things like oh you know have you lost weight are you unwell and they’re giving you that kind of useless information sometimes it’s nice to go to an event like yours and look around and think oh

Actually there are other human beings interested in in in trying to be a bit better tomorrow Health you know generally those people that are there are going to be the healthier slice of the population because they’re meeting the government requirements of moving five times a week for at least 30

Minutes a time which yeah mentally mentally and physically they’re going to be just sometimes I can’t bother to go to a park run and I go anyway and I’m always uh just kind of inspired is probably the right word for it just kind just by by seeing just a bunch of people

That if you went out on a satellite your town center and you walked around your town center you would be forgiven for thinking goodness me where where is anybody that cares about something where big ma coming from yeah and I think that’s a really important message

As well as a parent myself of three young kids and I’m trying to instill a good role model to them and they now love coming to our events and they help at our events hand out medals and stuff and I think you know what that’s a

Really good thing for them to see and um environment for them to be into and I also run my own Tri Junior Triathlon Club kids Triathlon Club and I couldn’t care if the kids are winning or going on to become Elite athletes I just want them to be moving and having fun and

Feeling better and having that in their toolbox that when they get to their exams and they get stressed they know that if they go out for a run or they go for a swim or a cycle with their mates they’re going to feel so much better and

Then come back and hopefully smash their exams but or do whatever they need to do to enjoy life but I just think exercise is medicine in so many ways and yet I mean for example you you pay here’s a simple one you pay like anybody that

Wants to run an event at dton pastures you pay the local authority to hire that pay a premium for that that venue right I mean if anybody that’s anybody that works at uh wokingham Council high enough up to answer this question and come and tell me why why is

That not especially when they’re getting a secondary spend with people paying their car parking so people have to pay their car parking on top and they’re going into the cafe the coffee and the cake afterwards yes so you’re you’re bringing hundreds of people into a into a local Authority run venue they’re spending

Their money there in other ways they’re leaving fitter and healthier than they arrived and then they’re charging you to have done that it is it’s just wrong I mean somebody said to me the other day oh park run get a huge amount of government funding because they don’t

Have to pay to use the parks no basically the deal is the government say you can use the parks for free and they think they funded it buy every part run has to buy yeah park run should be um rolling in in government money uh I say rolling in

Government money the amount of money that would be required to have somebody like Parker rolling in it would be tiny relatively speaking the budget when you compare it to the the budget they’re going to have to set aside at some point in the future for things like type two diabetes which will

Become an illness that will make hug yeah I mean if anyone thinks that covid was a was a huge expense just jump forward 50 years and look at what’s going on with with type two diabetes and and and heart disease and Cancers and so on that that are preventable yeah long

Long way saying do you get any help from from the government to do what you do so the simple answer is no uh not from the public sector um but we do from private sector and we’re very very fortunate actually we were at the point uh last

Year of ending our summer series which is our most popular event have been our most popular event preo um so it’s an event in May June July and August and before covid we’d get we had Peak about 650 people coming to the event postco so last year we struggled to get 300 to

Come along to an event and when we were just looking at the figures it just wasn’t stacking up and it wasn’t a great investment of our time um so we we as my husband and I um basically said I think now is the time to call it a day on that

Event which is real sad because it had been our bread and butter for the last 10 years so we announced that at our last event and um we actually had a guy um approach us who I’ve known for several years from spokes in bagshot which is a cycling shop in bagshot um

Who’s Taken part in our events and he said Ellie I don’t want these events to finish they are so good for the local community they’re so good for the people that take part the environment you’ve set up the culture everything he’s like what do you need for the events to

Continue and I was brutally on I said I just need cash to cover the cost of hiring the venue every month and he said he my hand there and then he said we’ll make that happen if you want it to happen and him and a couple of his mates

Who run other local businesses so there’s AR Collard and brackenwood home uh brackenwood homes and windows in breing the three of them between them have basically covered our V new hire for this year’s event because they seen the value of those the events so you know that’s what it takes amazing

Amazing yeah I mean if you need a High School go to Spokes if you need some uh home and windows go to brackenwood and yeah what what’s kard do uh waste management is okay got any waste um and you want it managed uh they’re the guys

To do it yeah yeah um they I mean they are doing something incredible but but the the opposite side of that coin is that local Authority is doing something just outright useless Yeah by by not um saying having 600 people go and do something productive their mental and

Physical health is sounds like a good thing if we let you have that venue for even a discount yeah exactly and that’s all I was asking can we make it proportionate if I’ve got 600 people I’ll pay this and if I’ve got 300 people I’ll pay that you know but I can’t

Afford to pay 600 what I’m paying for 600 when I’ve only got 300 you know it just doesn’t I mean again yeah I’m I’m G to I’m going to try and talk to someone from the from from the local Authority because because it it makes well I say

Makes no sense the only reason it would make sense for for uh government to not be interested in that is if they couldn’t care less about anything other than the next four years if that were the case then then it makes perfect sense because you aren’t going to see

Immediate results um jumping up on on on on paper from from you doing more events but what you will see is in 5 years time you’ll see less people in hospital I mean it’s just a straightforward as that that that link is undeniable yeah and this year for the first year we’re

Introducing the summer series a kids series because I’m so passionate about getting the kids involved and getting them to encou enjoy exercise and keep that going because they’re the Next Generation you got to get keep them fit so that we’ve introduced a kids series so I’m really passionate about that and

I’d love the council to see that as a great thing that we’re offering um for young to come get involved with it it infuriates me I mean it should be it should be top of their their agenda is to is to I mean I me goodness to me what

What is a government supposed to do if not look out for its people yeah um and and if the biggest threat to its people is their own inactivity and poor health then um yeah it should be as simple as that yeah everything that can kind of coers

People in the right direction should be done and if that’s making your events half the cost they are because you’re being subsidized that’s that should be happening yeah it infuriates me that it doesn’t no and I think yeah the cost of living now people are struggling the everything’s gone up in price you

Whatever food shopping everything has gone up electricity and for us as event organizer everything’s gone up so buying medals has gone up buying the chocolate bars for the Finish Line not that I give chocolate bars actually Mark do I I’m I’m fruits I’m bananas and oranges and

Apples um there’s i r i r i run straight past that table there’s no you go to the ice cream van that you then have to buy yeah although it’s not I should I should say it’s not vegan you got no vegan options oh yeah good point yeah no vegan

S and what about vegan uh have they not got the vegan Magnums have to check I don’t know you’ve had you’ve had a donut guy there yes he’s definely not vegan he’s not vegan so get him to sort some vegan cuz cuz I’m um yeah I need I need a vegan

Donut fine I’m on it um yeah so I just think that having uh the cost of living is having a massive impact on everyone and people if they don’t need to spend 20 quid to go and run around a Country Park they won’t there’ll be other things

That money needs to be spent on whereas they can go and run Park Run for free and I completely get that um it’s a slightly different experience you’re going to not get a medal at Park run you will at our event you’re going to get a

Recorded time I guess you do at Park run to some extent now um and life is full of choices yeah if it’s hard making money go as far as it used to absolutely yeah especially if it’s a husband and wife and they’re doing it together together and you you got to

Find maybe someone’s got to look after the kids you got to find whatever 25 quid each to enter the thing and we could have just gone for a jog but the reality is they won’t so instead what they’ll then so then they’ll think well we won’t do this again because it cost

Us 50 Quid and we could have done it for free so they won’t do another race and they also won’t go and do it for free and then you don’t the health becomes a bigger issue absolutely three years later they’re sting a doctor’s surgery being handed out hundreds and hundreds

Of pounds worth of of bills yeah exactly yeah broken and Council where are you yeah um my my last question for you is are you going to keep doing the uh paddle board uh a you love that one don’t you are subathon you you cost me a fortune actually I should say having

Said I get some events I I get some events for free I I I always uh out of support for my local businesses I always pay to enter your events going to say I should I be giving them to free Mark no you should no no no not at all so I did

Your you did a paddle board uh was it 2K paddle board around the lake about 1500 I think yeah right and then and then out of that and into a 5K run that’s it and I I saw that uh the first time you did

It or the first time I saw you doing it and I thought I’m going to have a good at that so I jumped online because I didn’t own a paddle board and I I researched paddle boards and I discovered that the fastest type were really expensive uh racing paddle boards

So I spent about ,000 did you really on a P Board yeah I went and bought a padle board I then had no time to practice on it so the first time I got on it was 10 minutes before the race I did at your so

That waiver that you ticked that said I would have prior experience of being on a powder board yeah yeah Li um so I ticked it anyway and I I did really well cuz to be fair um a racing paddle board is a fast paddle board it’s also very

Wobbly and I only ever use that paddle board once a year entering your Darth race so I’m just really you need find more of those races to do more no I know but then it’s it’s then putting the pad board on the roof of the car it’s all

Pala so I’m just making sure you’re going to keep running it that’s definitely on September yeah right I I’ll be there um anybody lives locally go go and do the P because it is just huge fun that’s I’m surprised there aren’t more of those sort of um kind of

Fun not wacky because it’s quite serious I mean the guys that are winning it are or or indeed as I have Podium on it um are are shifting but also you can just turn up and mess about try not to fall in and then jog that sort of multi

Fitness kind of thing I’m surprised there isn’t more of that springing up um we do night run at Denton as well that’s quite fun something a bit different where you’re running around the laps uh 2.2 mile laps how many of those can you do in an hour and 22 um again that’s

Something more fun that it’s not necessarily you’re going for times you’re just having to laugh with your mates with your head torches and glow sticks and I love that event it’s great fun we don’t get and you’ve done you’ve done the Santa one as well Santa yeah

Love the Santa Dash yeah again the family kind of fun events and I think those kind of things are what people remember it’s not necessarily going out and smashing a 5k PB it’s as you obviously remember this Athlon so well it’s having a bit of fun and doing

Something bit different that’s the sort of thing that that uh I’m it’s a Pity that that the numbers of people doing this sort of stuff have dropped off post Co because actually what should be happening is there should be an explosion of those sort of things that

You can do every weekend you should be able to have a choice of well am I going to do a yeah am I going to a paddle board race am I going to a bike dolon what yeah there should be an abundance of them um and it’s yeah I think for me

I’d love to put on more but there’s we’ll go back to the the Wen Bar Council it’s the commitment that I have to make to the site I mean I I’m quoting Denton a lot I know there are other venues and we do organize other events but we know

It works there it’s a good venue we know the the uh ins and outs of it and it kind of just works so why not stay there um but for me I know that I’ve got to commit to The Venue hire no matter how many people turn up so I’ve got to be

Confident that I’m going to get enough people to cover that venue higher otherwise I’m potentially running it at a loss and it’s not as we said earlier it’s not just the venue higher that I’ve got to commit to I’ve got to commit to First Aid timing medals whatever good

Giveaways and there’s a lot of stuff so you unless you know it’s very hard to know that you’re going to get X number of people coming um yeah it’s a tricky tricky environment yeah no and people need to remember when you when they cross the finish line and and you know

They look on their phone and and already they their time data is already pinged up I mean that that’s that’s why they’re paying to do a properly organized event it’s not forget forget the medal that you did or didn’t get or what the medal was made of or how big it was yeah

That’s I mean whenever people say to me oh they didn’t even give a free t-shirt so what you got t-shirt for buy your own clothes i’ bought my I’ll sign a t-shirt that I like that you won’t like and then it ends up in the bin AB I I tell I tell

You what ends up it ends up where every one of my Spartan vests has gone which is into the Rags bin in my garage clean cars with yeah so don’t in fact what what race organizers should do is they should just give out uh Rags for

Cleaning your car and you get a car clean often not there’s there’s a tip for you cheap a rag get get your kids to draw your logo on it yeah done and you get a rag yeah love it goodness me uh talking to your kids uh you told me earlier you had

To go and fetch them from school because they’re still of an age where they they require parenting um stop Mark uh well well I I stopped parenting mine when they got to about 13 okay um I don’t advise that uh I stopped caring where they were cuz it wasn’t in

My house the minute they left okay uh so you have that to look for was that 13 as well no bit older you know what do you know what my my daughter it might it wasn’t far off um girls can be they can be hard work and they mature quite early

Which often means they run away from home quite soon I found that all my children at various points in time ran away from home my daughter did it earlier than than the boys the boys were quite timid um girls are headstrong aren’t they yeah headstrong and stupid

Um in in my particular case but um but but yeah the twin girls can’t wait till their teenagers that’s going to be great yeah unfortunately with girls what what tends to happen is um is that yeah they they they they kind of hit 11 12 and

Then suddenly they’re 19 there is no in the middle teenage yeah the kind of the 15 16 year old girl doesn’t exist she she’s already she’s already 19 whereas boys ironically my my 24 year old eldest son is still a 14-year-old boy so have a

Shower they well no cuz he he has his own house so I don’t care what he smells like this is the I was telling you when they leave it’s joyous I couldn’t care less occasionally he’ll text me and he’ll say something else fell off the wall can I go and help fix

It I I just delete those um so it’s didn’t see a message then you have it you have it to look forward to um it’s um as I said to you at the beginning that the two most exciting days of my life we’re leaving school because anyone

That says the school’s the best days of your life is someone that’s just not done anything very exciting since school and uh and yeah when your kids when your kids go and you weigh them goodbye you know I don’t want nasty take your keys back yeah oh ABS

Well do you know what we have one of these kind of fancy door things where you give them like a code and so on my app as they were as they were driving off I was deactivating their code yeah before they’d even left the close classic they were they were they were

Gone yeah and then and if they knock on the door I just hide behind the sofa cool uh yours aren’t yet ready to be thrown out so I’m going to let you go and fetch them uh it’s been it’s been fascinating talking I mean I I encourage

Anybody locally obviously to go go and uh do one of your events Barn’s Fitness um you don’t need to buy a 2,000 powder board you can do the you can hire them yeah you can hire them uh for L less than £2,000 do not be an idiot uh and do

That and and yeah and and racing your races unless they are in my age group in which case don’t attend your events you might miss the podium cuz I I own that uh old man Podium top spot so stay off bit Yeah anyone else at get chucked in the Lake

Of the pond go go down go down to Spokes and spend your money there instead yes um awesome Ellie uh thanks for your time it’s been great chatting and um and yeah I look forward to seeing you at uh at the next time I’m running around one of

Your events look forward to it too thanks Mark