Top Training Hacks for Heavier Runners from Hybrid Athlete Fergus Crawley

Friend of the podcast Fergus Crawley is back again today having literally this morning finished another world record attempt to wade into the murky waters of Hybrid Training, finally give us all a definition we can all agree with, and give us all tips on how to get over the dreaded “wall” while running.

You can find more of Fergus here: https://www.instagram.com/ferguscrawley/?hl=en

@ferguscrawley

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Hello and welcome back to the Noto fit couple podcast with your host Lucy Halden I’m Benjamin hden you forgot again didn’t you no we are in the infamous brand new Manchester my protein Kitchen on Mosley Street and it is honestly incredible it feels like a very safe space this the first time I’ve

Actually visited today but I also had some banging food oh my God if you come get the protein flatbread with avocado and feta or the balls all the meatballs yeah no it’s really nice not anyone’s ball yeah the meatballs they tend to be the one but on today’s episode we have

Back for episode number two Mr Fergus Crawley he’s fresh off the back of just attempting a very very hybrid challenge he’s just attempted A500 deadlift into a sub five minute mile run which is a phenomenal straight in by the way phenomenal challenge yeah straight in so Fergus has done Ultra Ultra Iron Men

He’s done endurance events he’s done powerlifting he comes from a very hybrid background as a hybrid athlete and we go into this topic heavily today discussing is being a hybrid athlete a trend and what it really means to be hybrid we also delve a lot into techniques

Fueling tips tricks Chief creams all the things that if you’re a heavier Runner a more muscular Runner or have a bit more body fat that will be a good thing to know for you to become more efficient and better at running stay tuned and enjoy today’s episode we’ll just start

With the sh we if projectile vomited yet then uh not projectile I have vomited I call it the reverse black Americano actually a Triple Espresso I think it was that’s even that’s it wasn’t it wasn’t wasn’t my finest moment wasn’t my worst but it wasn’t it was up

There it was bad so here we are do you want to tell people what you have just done this morning yeah so I attempted a 500 deadlift and a mile under 5 minutes total so the concept was to simply have a barbell at track loaded up to 500 have

It set up at the mile start Point lift the deadlift and run a mile all within a five minute time cap kind of a bit of a progression of previous stuff I’ve done 500 pound bat Squat and sub five minute mile on the same day separate this was

Contained within the same effort which was a bit more Niche this morning was 505 so I was five well 5 seconds and 1 millisecond off where I wanted to be that so close very painfully close but I’m I’m a little bit disappointed that it didn’t go the way I’d hoped from

A sort of content hitting the goal talking about it point of view but at the end of the day there’s no like even the drive here I don’t feel ashamed or gutted in any way because I know and the question I was asked myself with these events is did I

Give it everything I had and if the answer is yes the outcome is what the outcome is I don’t think oh you eased off in lap three or you know what you can Mo with the deadlift faster this that and the other so 505 was the output

The end what was the reason why did you do it what was the reason behind it um what made you choose this so this year has been chaos for me and last year was very very Ultra endurance focused after the double brutal extreme Triathlon in September last year that was a 40h hour

Effort over a weekend just what was that for people we know what it was but for everyone like there’s a you’ve done a couple of things that since we last spoke on the podcast that you didn’t just do the normal Goggins you did double goggin as well yes yes there’s

Been plenty of silly things but when when did we last speak honestly I I think it was like two years ago we have spoke since then by the way two Fus just two years only communicate the podcasting yeah um so since then I’ve done the kelman extreme Triathlon in June

Last year that rolled straight into the double brutal extreme Triathlon which was a 7.6 km swim a 373k bike with 6,000 meters of elevation gain and an 84.4k run with 2,100 meters of elevation gain including Snowden so it was in snowdonia and it was in a lap format as well if it

Wasn’t psychologically torturous enough already that took me I think it was just under or just over 40 hours I can’t quite remember but it started at 7:00 a.m. on Saturday and I finished at around 10 p.m. on Sunday evening and I slept for 8 minutes 7 eight minutes on

Sunday morning at about 5:45 a.m. after I fell asleep momentarily on the bike downhill and the support car thought we should pull him in to make him sleep the bastard cuz I was like no I’m fine I’m fine I’m fine I’m fine let me keep going

Like no no no and at this point I was like yeah she probably she probably have a snooze did you start hallucinating on that at all big time Big Time Dick Dastardly from The Wacky Races a lot yeah yeah yeah it wouldn’t be my goto but yeah I I haven’t watched I’m not

Like a secret mad Wacky Races fan that’s why it was so it was it was quite hilarious because it was is that catch the page in catch the was that another character from there you’d expect me to know given that I saw dickly so many times on this event but the

Hallucinations of it started about lap four lap three lap four well no they they went mental at lap three lap four of the run but there were a few excuse me there were a few during the bike um overnight because I think the the darkness makes it even more difficult

Because it’s not like if you drop an acid tab in a movie and you start seeing dragons flying around just at of thin air it’s more you reframe things that are there into different things so like if I was looking at you sat there with a mic and a laptop in

Front of you it might kind of blend into a shape that my brain would then register as something else so I’d see a tree and a wall and then something behind the tree in the distance and I’d see Dick Dastardly and I’d kind of be

Looking at it like I know it’s not Dick Dastardly but it very much looks like him to me right it’s a tree it’s a tree in a wall right got it yeah yeah so it wasn’t you your brain like reframes things that you’re seeing rather I assume it’s just

Because it’s fatigued and slow and it can’t process things quick enough but it’s not like yeah you just see dragons charging towards your face but if there was a big tree trunk in front of you you might momentarily register that as a dragon or whatever it is I did actually

Fall over at one point CU in the trail section through the woods there was sort of a bush to my right that um my head torch kind of really lit up as I ran past it and then just split second I thought it was like a wolf jumping at me

And I and fell over and Johnny turned around like you’re right I just slipped I I I get that every night when Lucy sleeps just fearing massive spiders and I have night terrors do you yeah badly extreme ones though but I play along with them as well which makes it more

Entertaining actually but you’re not supposed to wait my night terrors honestly I have them with spiders and they are [ __ ] everywhere and they’re all on me and I pull the quill and it’s it’s awful and Ben’s like the spiders on you which is actually really bad to do

Right yeah and I’m like where are they yeah it’s really bad have you seen the big one on the roof yeah I’ve never I’ve never hallucinated giant [ __ ] well it sounds like it’ll be fun when you do and I’m pretty sure you’ll see several spiders when you get to that point

Because I’m think I think we can be quite confident at some point that will probably happen but yeah like it’s weird but I also found it it was quite entertaining and funny because you were just so delirious and every like the the support car and everything hadn’t slept

So they were losing their heads and yeah bottom line got through that so through yeah 465 km total um very long weekend yeah but got to the end of it and it was eight laps of the Run starting up and down Snowden and then eight laps of the

Lake got over the finish line and it wasn’t like today where I fully collapsed and was just beaten up beyond belief it was kind of like okay you’re done I didn’t then cramp up and fall over and like right that’s Max effort that’s done it was more like I think I could

Have done another lap and if I could have done another one more lap could I have done a second lap again could I’ve done a third could I’ve done a fourth it was I was happy it was over and I was working towards the end but I’d got into

A rhythm of laps that makes me a bit curious as to what lies on the other side of continuing there which will probably happen at some point in the future but that was the big thing in September but the training to get to that point alongside pretty key moments

In business growth last year and just sort of 28 hours of training a week ahead of time meant that I was really quite worn out going into the start line whereby sitting at the start line well I wasn’t sitting I was standing at the start line panicking before the water I

Was just proud to have made it to that point kind of like wow you’ve actually managed to get here after so many weekends of training that I just couldn’t like i’ see eight hours on the bike on Saturday eight hours on your feet on Sunday and then the same again

The following weekend like oh no and then going straight into full Mondays for me are always chaos it’s just a total right off although devoted to programming and Communications ahead of the week which means normally 14 now days at my desk so the problem I had was Saturday Sundays were like work because

It was eight hours on a bike for me isn’t as sort of therapeutic and escaping as it was when I was full-time employee for example because it’s now part of the job well imagine a lot of that as well you’re on the bike thinking about I’ve got this to do on Monday as

Well and you just Ming over the task that you’ve got to do in front of you as well so become as therapeutic as people might think and funly enough I don’t have many people around me that are happy to join me for eight hours on a

Bike ride on a Saturday which meant that a lot of it was on my own so getting to the start of the double was it was unhealthy it’s not something I’m sort of I mean I’m proud that I got through it it taught me some things about the

Businesses about myself that have made me better a day day-to-day in terms of managing myself and things but it was it was it was an unhealthy period of time getting there getting through it was amazing but on out the back end it was such a big peak it was really well

Received online lots of follow-ups on it lots of really positive conversations off the back of it people that signed up to the following year people that signed up to the first triathlons all that stuff was great but it took me quite a while to get excited about training for

Anything again and in January end of December Erin my partner she went away to um Australia and Southeast Asia for three three and a half months so I was on my own with the dogs at the house in January winter just sort of keeping things taking over keeping the

Businesses taking over and sort of in and out of the house on my own so training felt like a bit of a I don’t know everything felt very always on so that kind of exacerbated the loss of Direction and identity I had with training but I had a place on the Norman

Which is sort of the world’s most infamous Triathlon in ad F in Norway and I was just punishing myself day in day out for not being excited about wanting to train for the norsman so I was wanting to get up in the morning excited

To go and do my swim or excited to get on the turbo and i’ just look at my bib shorts or look at the car keys and be like [ __ ] hell I do not want to do this and I’d do it but I’d make my day so difficult to get through

Because i’ I’d like I’d deoptimized the training but because I’m disciplined and what you mean by that s so it’d be things like rather than just getting up having a coffee getting in the car and going and sort of [ __ ] about a little bit beforehand and just be like but no

I’ not like in not wanting to do the training session I’d kind of just waste time putting off the training session even though I knew if I got to 8:00 p.m. and I hadn’t done the training session I’m I’m enough years deep now now that I don’t I don’t just skip sessions because

I don’t want to do them if they have a purpose I’m not I’m not sort of it’s not um it’s not like I rely on them but if I know that the programming is there for a reason and you’re just you’re in a [ __ ] is winning here essentially to sort of

Put a very American spin on things then then I will do it but if I’m if I know that I’m actually very fatigued I know that actually the programming from the previous couple of days is spiked too much you had a bad night’s sleep whatever it is all those business

Priorities that take over I’ll reallocate and realign the training but if it’s just the case if I don’t want to do it I can’t be asked I’ll do it because that’s what I do but for a long time for like two three months I really really struggled to get excited about

Being a triathlete and in my head I was after the double in the kelman the previous year a triathlete who also lifted fairly heavy weights but there was no part of me that was getting excited about being a triathlete because of the sort of post event Blues depression come down whatever you want

To call it that came from the double so before I went out to join Erin for uh two two weeks in Australia and then I did two weeks in the States going to see Mar Bell and stuff like that which was great I kind of wanted to

Prove to myself that I could still do hard stuff because I kind of didn’t understand that I was the person that had done the double I almost couldn’t recognize like I was looking at videos of myself or reflecting on it and couldn’t align that I was the person

That did it it didn’t feel like it was why did you do that though cuz even though you’ve had evidence to doing previous things I don’t know this time around honestly I think maybe it’s CU eron wasn’t around I think I kind of

Just I was I was on my own a lot of the time and with the we live about half an hour out of Edinburgh got two dogs I had an office in the city center Ed at the time I can take the dogs in but if I

Take the dogs in I can’t train anywhere except to and from the house so setting up my days meant that there was no wiggle room to see people or spend time with people other than just to get the day-to-day done so I probably isolated myself a bit more which meant that the

Sort of inner Narrative of the ident crisis I was going through was a bit worse because I didn’t have the back and forth I normally have with a in in the house about that sort of stuff so yeah it was it was weird I like

I knew it was me I didn’t feel like a fraud I didn’t feel like a sort of no that was all a dream but I just kind of didn’t believe in my I didn’t believe that I was still the per I didn’t believe that I was the same standard of person that

Achieved what I did with the double the previous year because i’ I don’t know I felt like I kind of lost a little bit of a grip of the structure and everything that kept me moving forwards what you do you feel like you’d you’d slipped or did

You feel like you’d fluked the other events no I feel I feel that I’d I feel that what I did wrong was I didn’t listen to the reality which was now is not the right time for you to be a triathlete this is not what you want

To be doing unfortunately being a hybrid athlete whatever the [ __ ] that means these days thanks internet well one of more questions we got we’ll get there we’ll get there um means that I can be fluid in my goals I can do whatever I want so why punish myself for doing

Things that I don’t want to be doing when I can just be doing things that I want to be doing so I went to Australia just [ __ ] around with training went to the gym and made it up as I went along what do you want to do today that tended

To be back squat singles and fast work on the treadmill just did what training I could when I could do it then got back on home soil and for another month or so sort of wrestled with the idea of do I want to do the Norman is it the right

Time with a lot of business priorities and things that we’re working on this year and the answer ultimately was no and only when I sort of decided right I’m going to let the race director know I am not doing this anymore because it is just not the right time for me

Psychologically professionally or personally as as much as it pains me to say that as soon as I sort of made that decision I felt much better and then I woke up the following day what do you want to do and it was do lateral raises

In a string of vest for a couple of weeks yeah SW as [ __ ] it’s just like act like a teenager again Drive sco pre-workout go to the gym listen to some music be in and out and an hour and just crack on it’s funny when you do stuff

Like that though because in other elements of your life as well it often takes you back so when I go and like watch it then know like a Disney movie whatever it is it takes me back to being like a kid again where I don’t have tax

Bills tasks whatever it is to do and it’s the same with like the gym if you can take yourself back to a previous time in your life where you trained a certain way or did a certain thing it makes you forget about all the other

[ __ ] that you have to do cuz you just just there to enjoy doing the thing 100% it’s why it’s why BLS love cars because you think back to the Hot Wheels that you looked at when you were younger and you hear the and you’re like I’m six

Years old again and then you forget about the bills and how much the car actually cost momentarily then you get out of it you think oh until you have to go and fuel it again that was a terrible decision but it’s yeah it’s the same mechanism where what I did was sort of

Re re ignited an enjoyment with training dayto day which which was all I needed to do to free myself up to decide what to do next what are you enjoying right now lifting weights and short sharp running so I sort of focused on what this year’s

Looked like which in June was a 500 pound deadlift and 5K under 20 minutes total so same mechanism as today lift the bar at the track the time of starts and then got 20 minutes to to do it did you did you do that one yeah that was 19

1911 I think I did that in why is that so difficult by the way because people will look at that and go well I could deadlift that and some people would look and go well I could run that why com combined is it so diff difficult so I

Think it’s it’s essentially £500 isn’t a mad deadlift in powerlifting standards at any body weight really what is that in kilos 2 27.5 so it’s not it’s not like yeah you’re not going to be you’re not going to be placing in power lifting competitions with it but it’s it’s more

Than most people in in any gym setting can lift and the sub 25k is sort of the Threshold at which people are like thinking wow you’re moving quickly at a recreational level the problem with the Internet is that people have their own boxes and their own biases which mean

That they see 500 pound or they see sub 25k go well that’s not actually quick this is [ __ ] ignoring the fact that the 500b and the body weight Associated and the allocation of training stimulus that has to be devoted to that that eats into the running is the balance that’s difficult

But the bottom line is I enjoy the difficulty of trying to manage the fatigue and the stresses that go with different ends of the spectrum training and enjoy being able at any one point to sort of deadlift 200 kilos Plus for reps and being able to know that I can run a

Sub 25k any day of the week any day of the year which is it’s come from a lot of like decade of doing the work but it it’s it’s paying attention to how to balance those things that makes balancing those things effectively difficult and a lot of people get too

Lost in their own biases on lifting or running to be able to open themselves up to where they need to turn down certain dials and turn up other ones um and that kind of planted the seed for this because this has been something that’s

Kind of been on my mind for a few years as it’s just a novelty nobody cares it’s just a bit of fun and it’s a it’s a bit of a step up from The Squat and the five minute mile on the same day is a 445

Mile as a PB appealing to me not even slightly so this is kind of the only thing Beyond The Squat and the mile that was exciting to me and ultimately training for a mile and training for heavy lifts isn’t as timec consuming as training for Ultras and this year my

Focus has been there’s been huge huge amounts of development with both businesses we’ve just moved into a new site we’re building our own gym for our use we’re building podcast studio um we’ve just launched our own sort of inperson events for next year we’ve just launched Appel there’s loads of stuff

Going on that I’ve had to we’ve only got to that place because I’ve devoted the time that could be devoted to ultra training to that stuff and that’s been fulfilling for me and then we’ve come out the back end here and I along the way I did a Strongman Competition as

Well up in patar and abadin in Scotland I was 30 kilos lcer than the next heaviest guy there and had a blast doing it it was really really good fun and then everything since then sort of been devoted to just base tra keeping up skills in everything that I like to

Train for so one swim a week one turbo session a week and then everything else has been full body lifting hard effort running Tempo stuff and list work sort of a loose structure that we always follow and then that’s put me in the position where this is this this is a

Sort of culmination of that period and now I’m excited and ready and feel like I’m in a position to reallocate the time to a big Ultra and a big thing over the winter and I’ve taken the the time and the step back to do the things that

Needed done and to reassess the way that I approach things to be able to now go back into an ultra with peace of mind that’s not going to be unhealthy like it was for the double last year that leads us into just one quick question before

We move on to that first question with the the deadlift and the run because I know when you did the sub 21 you put your shoes on did you still have so did you did you do it in your Runners the deadlift yeah so I did it in um did it

In my running shoes I was I was training to do in spikes because they’re pretty thin but my yeah essentially I just felt like my legs 1200 M to to to a mile in my spikes I just didn’t feel like I could my it the pain in my legs

Physiologically was my my gate isn’t suited to spikes over a mile distance yeah and yeah I needed to find a middle ground where I could so I was running in Ultra escalantes which is zero drop running shoes so they’re at least they’re not angled down the way but

They’re still cushioning which it was a bit wobbly and weird I’ve been doing a lot of training in the gym running shes to get used to it yeah but I wouldn’t have had I mean I didn’t have time to not change shoes no that’s what I me I

Was thinking on the other video you did you you slipped your shoes and I thought surely not for this one because that you’d literally eat up so much time the the margin for era today was so so thin and that was what was really making me

Nervous ahead of time um and having the live on and having the I mean I don’t want to say seem like I’m complaining about the support the support was amazing but just that internal pressure and doubt that went with having more eyes on it everything being documented

In real time just meant that my head was a bit more I can’t really think about anything until the deadlift is done bit more jittery a little bit less strategic Jamie was pacing me um and we had a clear strategy on how we wanted that to

Unfold so there was just a lot of moving parts today but no margin for error almost in my last warmup on 207. five I took my belt off and basically wrapped it around my legs as I was running so I almost hit the deck and in my last

Warmup so it was good to know right make sure to throw your belt to the right so you don’t do that on the top set stuff like that but I say again it was good fun I’ve worked very hard to get here the track sessions have been very rewarding they’ve served their purpose

I’ve enjoyed training for I mean I ran a sub five minute mile today so I ran at 459 but the deadlift and the change over before starting running is what’s eaten into the time yeah it’s a disposition position isn’t it so I don’t want to sit here disappointed about having run a sub

500 mile at 94 kilos because I’m quite pleased with that yeah that’s what I’m saying about people who look and go deadlift I could deadlift that or people looking for a running background go I could run that it’s the it’s the impact that that deadlift has it’s it’s like if

You eat a plate a plate of peas with a spoon it’s pretty easy if you try with a fork it’s [ __ ] nightmare that’s the position that you put yourself in I put full plates of p in the bin before just because couldn’t eat with a [ __ ] Fork

That’s what I’m talking about in terms of people taking a view of things and doing it with a different Insight or different lens on from doing something pre and a different Mo modality that ties into being a hybrid I which brings on to do need to discuss as you said

Before tell us what it means it is the concurrent it is the current concurrent training of disciplines that do not inherently support one another whose disperate components are not inherently required for Success at any one sport that is the word for word definition by the man that wrote the book and guesses

The hybrid athlete in 2016 so that is the definition there is one what is your definition the same I I don’t own the phrase I can’t get keep for people very worthy sports that do not complement one another training to progress in both of them simultaneously

So running does not make you a better powerlifter powerlifting does not make you a better Runner but if you train to progress in both running and powerlifting separately then that is hybrid training HX is not hybrid this episode is how do you know what if you don’t like listening to noise mute this

Episode is kindly sponsored by my protein as we are sat in the brand new my protein kitchen and if you’re in Manchester you need to check it out it’s unbelievable yeah this is the new branded way that we have in front of us the impact way I am what is commonly

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Make sure you shot the discount the discount will be up to 40% across my protein it is always amazing so head there and B to the episode that’s going to ruffle some feathers hello everyone same with Crossfit though isn’t it CrossFit is a discipline hrock is a

Discipline if you’re doing H rocks and also running marathons that’s hybrid but hybrid racing Spartan Racing OCR racing Etc and this weird egoed up American thing going on where the hrock gang are trying to gatekeep the phrase and make it seem like anyone that isn’t sort of

Really buying into that isn’t Worthy is just doing what essentially hybrid training was designed to not do which is raise the barrier to entry to a point that puts people off hybrid training is a way for people to enjoy and explore new disciplines without worrying about the fact that they can’t make progress

99.9% of people aren’t training to be a specialist in any one discipline at a professional level therefore most people in my opinion will benefit from hybrid training as a discipline because in setting the commitment towards becoming a better powerlifter and becoming a better Runner separately each sport gives you different valuable lessons

That you can then apply to different things and different outputs hiero is a threshold test CrossFit is very skillful but also mostly threshold the word endurance and Crossfit is is in particularly TR all together yeah and you train it all together and I don’t want it I don’t

Want in any way to seem like I’m bashing those things they are single disciplines where there are phenomenal phenomenal athletes that if they started doing separate training individual disciplines would be very good at it but the definition itself was proposed coined and created by Alex viard and it doesn’t

Simply mean just doing different things but I I don’t have any right to G keep the phrase I’m never going to pretend to have any right to gep the phrase I I’m going to keep doing what I’m doing which is choosing separate disciplines to to take over I think the other the other

Myth that’s sort of creeping in is seasonal training doing a summer of triathlon training and then doing a winter of strength training is not hybrid that’s just because you’re not doing both same that’s just phasic seasonal training yeah the the things that I often see online I’ve actually

Got a list actually got a list P pissed off it’s more I interesting topic I want to be balanced on this because again there’s so many people online that are really trying to own this or sort of Cl name XY Z like you the there’s things

I’ve seen which like trying to be the best hybrid in the that’s not a thing that can exist there’s no governing body there’s no competition and a lot of the competitions that are claiming to be hybrid tests Etc are just a blend of disciplines rolled into one and running

With weight is not it’s just running with weight it’s it’s essentially it’s a difficult nuance and I don’t want to seem I don’t want to seem in any way reductive of any of these things individually but it has become a marketing term that pisses people off that don’t understand what it means we

Got up a clear definition or something otherwise people can just you could what what would be the point in definitions of anything if we could just change them to Super people’s narrative but what annoys me the most is is is I I I love sport watching the rby World Cup

Watching just stuff like that it just makes me think [ __ ] hell I love this this is why I am so so pleased that I am privileged enough to be able to try and adapt to new things at all times and now there’s corners of the internet where hybrid training is becoming clicky which

Is exactly what it was designed to becoming trendy yeah it’s exactly what it was designed to avoid which is raising the barrier to entry to people that want to try new things and that’s what for overall health for overall development I want more people to try

Things that scare them and I don’t want anything that I do to be a sort of woo look at me look at this you’re all [ __ ] like some people online are doing I want it to be look actually by working hard and committing to something you can show tangible progress in your

Own day-to-day life that can have value that spills over into other aspects of your life that’s brilliant you’re competing only against yourself because nobody actually gives a [ __ ] MH there’s no governing body that oversees any of this so therefore you cannot Define the best and pointless dick measuring online

Is not actually going to help people that are a little bit tentative about maybe trying new things to think you know what that’s definitely something I want to get involved in because it might just mean that they think oh yeah I’m a power I couldn’t run oh I’m a runner but

I want to get a bit bigger so I can fill out t-shirts but no I don’t want to get slower but that’s the beauty of the scale as well because you can scale your different modalities and how much training you give to them at any given

Time depending on what your goal is that you’ve Illustrated over the past year or two depending on whether it’s more endurance based whether it’s more strength based whe it’s more Aesthetics based you can you can choose where to to turn that volume up whenever you wish to

Do it but also in general it’s probably one of the healthiest places you can be because if you can run a marathon your lung Health your heart health but then if you can go lift weights your joint health your muscle you’re strong like that is healthy that is such a healthy

And fit place to be and by doing hybrid you know you’re not going to be the best Ultra Runner or marathon runner and you know you’re not going to be the best power lifter or whatever it is apart from with me except you um but I think

It’s such a wonderful space to train like I found that anyway I’m like it’s actually so enjoyable like go out on a run or I’ll go and hit a weight session compon that’s what that’s what training should be so like so the YouTube did a shoted the weekend was all based on people

Comparing themselves to other people I’ve got it and W with when you use a different metric stick cuz the metric stick is way bigger or way more varied in the hybrid world you’re not just comparing like my time to this time or my physique to this physique you’ve got

You’ve got a different metric to use and just saying to people or you shouldn’t compare or you it’s like it’s like saying oh just be confident or just be yourself it’s [ __ ] [ __ ] useless if you have a different metric to measure against other things it doesn’t make

What other people value your only value you can have your own values of what you want to measure against yeah 100% 100% And I say again my my big learning over the years from training different disciplines is the death of the ego that has made me a better person it’s made me

A more effective athlete It’s Made Me achieve more in my personal professional and athletic life and I think a lot of the some corners of the internet’s narrative around this is actually not allowing other people that just simply want to develop because most people engage with Fitness content on the internet are not

Aspiring to be professional athletes they are people that simply want to do better on a day-to-day basis the vast majority and I think low skill dominant movements trained separately so that you can provide tangible progress in both and really develop yourself across Energy Systems is a great way to be a

Well-rounded an individual and person and a lot of the sort of competitive side of things are just it’s all threshold and a lot of the training for it tends to be approached in not necessarily the wrong way but there is a real dominant effort on strength endurance and threshold training where’s

A lot of people actually benefit from six months eight months of just doing zone two work to be able to build an aerobic base and that might have less of an impact on the strength that they’ve Worked six years to hold on to and means that they can build the two better

Concurrently rather than just immediately chucking in a whole load of additional intensity and compromising on what they’ve worked years and years to achieve Tang want to go off on after you so for reference the definition is the concurrent training of different athletic disciplines that do not necessarily support one another and

Whose disperate components are not essential to success at any one sport Alex viard I think that Nails it yeah I mean he he created it so but you can’t argue but the problem is he he doesn’t he has the right to gatekeep it and he chooses not to because it’s a concept

That’s out there in the world Alex is one of the most intelligent people on the planet I’ll go out and say and yeah Johnny and I know him well he’s a great guy but he hasn’t fought back hard enough on some of the voices online trying to redefine what essentially he

Conceptualized and again no gatekeeping but there is a definition there is a starting point and I feel like the progress and development of the narrative that can help more people achieve more from trying new things is being reduced as a result of the attempt to redefine it for ultimately the sake of marketing

That’s the world that we live in it’s I mean I use it in thumbnails I have done since 2019 but that’s because I’ve always viewed it as that definition is now becoming a little bit more murky but I’m going to do an I’m going to make an

Attempt to do a deliberated breakdown of mine and Johnny’s opinion on the history of the term where it sits now where we see ourselves where we see other people and ultimately really own the fact that these are just our opinions yeah we can’t gatekeep it but the things that I

Often see online on my list here these are all framed as quotes So number one is athletes have been lifting weights and running for years that’s often a comment which is true but strength and conditioning for a sport is not necessarily hybrid training because you are doing the strength and conditioning for the

Sake of improving your output in the individual sport so if you’re an NFL athlete that’s doing back squats to become a better NFL athlete you are an NFL athlete if you were also competing in powering competitions a separate sport that would be hybrid training but

That was like when I swam we did snc and it was so specific to swimming like yeah I could I could do like 30 pull-ups yeah strong back hows a backstroke like they it was so Sports specific so snc is sports specific to your sport 100% I

Agree 100% I agree with that and it doesn’t mean that therefore NFL athletes or swimmers aren’t strong but they are as a swimmer but it it just means that it is the committed approach to separate disciplines and progress in them concurrently that defines the term within those parameters and again being

An individual athlete is no worse off than being hybrid athlete I want everybody to do what is best for them that is the overarching message here secondly hrock OCR is the ultimate hybrid test kind of already covered that one but HX or OCR are individual sports in and of themselves if you were

Competing in hiero or OCR and also OCR uh obstacle course racing ah because they they blend it’s again it’s a blend of disciplines into one discipline one sport one actual metric like you can attach do this within an hour and you are the winner do it in an hour and 10

Minutes and you’ll come second but if you were also competing in again let’s just say competing power in competition separately but whilst running is a huge part of training for H rocks a lot of the time you’re training to run compromised you’re training to your the

Running is in training is to make you better at high rocks not individually to make you better at running and again we’re splitting hairs somewhat here but High I think hybrid racing is different to hybrid training and even saying that out loud I’m kind of rolling my eyes at

Myself because it seems like pointlessly nuanced discussions to be having but I do think the I do think some of the discussions online that are trying to sort of add testing or a level of measurability or a league table to certain things are not necessarily actually holding themselves as

Accountable to the original definition as they perhaps should second one so what just working out and running again I view working out as training without a purpose in terms of the definition and so what nobody really cares about anything on the internet anyway so valid question but just working out and

Running that what’s wrong with that that’s great that sounds fantastic but also if we’re working out is that often comes from people with an endurance bias because they don’t see lifting as an actual sport in and of itself in the same way that lifter just see running as

Just walking at a faster Pace why why would you why would you run somewhere just walk there or get a taxi like yeah good one mate we’ve all heard stuff like that and essentially if you’re working out for a purpose I.E you’re going to do an Olympic weightlifting competition and

You’re also running because you’ve got a 5k event coming up hybrid training by definition yeah I think like that’ll probably apply to most people most people are just go in for a lift because they want to enjoy being swall look better naked build the confidence have a better physique and then they’ll they’ll

Run because they want to explore on a weekend and go and look around other places they’re just lifting and running by default impr I think you can get so granular into those other things whereas most people just enjoy doing those two modalities and improving them separately

And the best way to train for them to get better at them is to train them separately not to blend them like next one CrossFit enters the chat quote unquote yes very very skillful very very high performance athletes some of the best athletes in the world absolute

Savages but they don’t tend to focus on one end of the spectrum of of training which is aerobic capacity over a significant period of time everything with I mean a lot of it is to to make it marketable and good for viewers so threshold work like endurance is 20

Minutes endurance is 40 minutes yeah they did the trailer run at the ranch and stuff like that and there was really good performances but I’m going to go out and say CrossFit intentionally shortened the 5K distance at the games to make the athletes seem better at

Running than they were to try and hide the fact that CrossFit inherently lacks running ability but would like to be presented as the most efficient all round athletes in the world but I think the whole thing’s undermined by the fact that the 5K the 5K at the World Championships of CrossFit was

4.56k which just goes to say a lot I mean that that’s that’s not speculating that’s been all GPS I’ve heard it was supposed to be 5K but they did slight Nuance 4.5 slight Nuance I need to I need to I’m feeling very controversial here that I’m just uh I’m just I should

Run I should fail 5 minute miles more often I think but um yeah basically 4.5 56k it was called it wasn’t called 5km it was called 5K yeah but that’s still f i 4.56 four 4,560 m is 5,000 yards H so got you but what is that that is intentionally misleading people on

What 5K is 5K kly so that’s either intentionally misleading or intentionally fudging the data to make the running element of CrossFit seem better than it is probably to mitigate a bit of the push back that’s coming from people that are strong at one end and also quite quick at running but in my

Mind we shouldn’t be expecting top level crossfitters to be running as fast as Runners that’s the point that doesn’t undermine them as athletes that just proves that they are very well rounded across lots of different things and that that that that wound me up a little bit

Because it just undermines the whole the whole essence of well honestly for one but two around the actual where where CrossFit is limited and where hybrid training might not be I’ve I’ve got a lot of friends who do CrossFit who have gone into doing either H rocks or doing other things and

Struggle with the running element even though they’ve like unbelievably fit we we’ve even had some people down at like run club and some of the people who’ have done like the lap when we’re doing interval they’re better after doing 50 air squats I’m like just do 50 air

Squats every time before you go into a 400 met run CU you better you’re better at doing it because they run well under a lot lot of fatigue not just straight out out running and I suppose a lot a lot of them may hold a lot more

Muscle a lot more tissue than those and this kind of brings me into the next sort of tangent that I want to go on because I know you spoke about this before and it’s I would class myself as a as a heavier Runner MH and I often hear people say well I’m

Not a runner or I’m not built for running what advice would you give to someone who’s maybe carry more weight or more tissue when it comes to either taking up running or or bettering their running two in one shots for one stop the chaing stop the chafing that’s the

Big one yeah I’ve got Thunder fire that’s a big one for me yeah yeah two in one shorts and Shamy cream which is cycling Focus Stu vas no vaseline’s bad for your clothes love that stuff Shamy cream is King Shamy cream is King to the France stuff um and zone two training

Obviously here we go couldn’t couldn’t talk go through the podcast without mentioning zone two could we essentially people often when getting into running especially at heavy body weight run too quickly because they assume they’re easy but if you frame easy within the context of what you’ve done previously

Especially if you’re coming from a rugby CrossFit High rocks High performing sport background you’ll be used to doing a lot of work at threshold so easy will just be slightly lower than threshold which might be in the right parameters but for anyone that might be completely

New to running that doesn’t have a heart rate monitor of some sort if if you can afford one then it’d be a great investment to make and don’t get an Apple Watch it will run out of utility after a certain period of time a Garmin or a CTO or something would be better

We’ve also oper operated for a lot of years without these devices so you can still go and run the talk test essentially if you run at a pace where you can string about 15 words at a time together great if you can’t you’re running too fast nasal

Breathing is a good form of throttle control as well if you can only breathe through your nose then you’re probably moving aerobically if you actually can’t you’re probably moving too quickly just breathing now I’ve got nostril like a bugies bum mate I just they don’t the air intake is absolute

Minimal talk test is probably the one if you were in the position a couple years ago yeah there we go that’s deep the nose breathing is hard though I’ve done a lot of runs where I’ve like taped right in prep like the marathon the ultra and it does breathing just through

Your nose is definitely hard yeah and it forces you to it forces you to focus as well which which is I mean the main one is don’t don’t be yeah it’s tough isn’t it it’s tough It’s um don’t don’t NE don’t essentially discount running’s skillfulness because

It is a skill you wouldn’t turn up to a Tean Yaki and start trying to do the onion in the poet because that is a skill that somebody has worked many years to be able to wow you with in the same way that you don’t just know how to

Run efficiently because you lift weights or because you ran on a rugby pitch there is there are different movement patterns to apply to different things and that is great because there is opportunity to learn do better improve and be a student but if you neglect to realize that and just assume that you

Are going to be efficient at all things from the word go because you’re proficient at something else then you could find yourself causing yourself injury putting yourself um you might not be able to understand your outputs in training to be able to understand what your input should be because you’re doing too much

Volume or you’re hurting your joints or things like that so commit the time to trying to move efficiently so there’s things you can do like skipping drills there’s gate drills there’s you can have gate analysis you can look at yourself running on a treadmill one of the biggest mistakes heavier Runners often

Make especially in hyper cussion shoes and one of the biggest next question is shoes yeah yeah so one of the biggest one of the biggest issues is that hyper cussion shoes inherently aren’t bad there’s corners of the internet that will tell you there are that they are um

But what over cushion shoes can do whilst providing support can essentially disguise poor gate because you can throw your foot out in front of you and effectively overstride so if your heel is landing in front of the line of your knees and hips sorry of your hips and

Shoulders the impact is going directly up the transient impact of the landing is going directly up and if that is out with the line of your body all of that impact is going into your knee which is where people can often start running and have issues with their shins with their

Knees because they’re just chucking the leg out in front of them rather than sort of tucking it beneath them a little bit so one of the drills we use with athletes if they are sort of reporting on things like that is trying to get them to run Barefoot on grass or run on

Concrete or on a track or something in a pair of barefoot shoes cuz be a weird Barefoot to do that what would be an example s of an over cushion shoe or a cushion shoe just for people listen most most popular running shoes um anything that yeah anything that is

Designed to absorb impact it doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing but they can really they can enable you to run faster and more efficiently from a performance point of view when you’re running them correctly but I mean things like things like hokers like the go-to like if you’re heavier everybody immediately

Thinks I need to get the most cushion shoe possible to take the impact but the more cushioned it is the less feedback you’ll be getting from the impact back to your body other than the cumulative repetitions of striding over and over again that then can sort of cause issues

So using a pair of barefoot shoes or using Barefoot strides or something like that there’s nowhere to hide because if you’re slamming your heel into the floor in front of you and all of that impact’s going upwards you’ll think ah [ __ ] my knee and you can’t repeat that so it’ll

Force you to to address your gate look at it and sort of design your gate to move efficiently and you can build volume from there yeah a lot of people get worried about pain don’t they whereas Pain’s more as an indicator that you’re probably doing something not right you need to change something

Whether it be with running or lifting so it’s often quite a good thing if you’re getting pain as a as a point of feedback for whatever you’re doing wrong yeah yeah pain and fatigue or hard work are not the same and I think there’s inherently a bit of I don’t know

Hypochondriac ISM don’t know what there would be there but that’s essentially a concern whereby people start to feel fatigued and think they must be doing something wrong but I think that that’s why low intensity skill dominant movement for anything that’s new I mean

If you go to a PC at the gym and you’ve never lifted weight before you would be foolish to expect that you’re just going to unrack a bench press and know what you’re doing in the same way that if you haven’t ran recreationally for many

Years you don’t just lace up a pair of hyper cussion shoes that the guy at the as6 store told you to stick on because you’re heavy and just start flying about the place because there are movement patterns that are I mean look look at the way Kip chogi runs versus I run I

Run like [ __ ] compared to kogi I to have tiny little little strides because I’m not built quite the same but like side by side his gate is more efficient than mine and that’s because he has devoted the time to the skill over the years and therefore it’s kind of the old this is

Phil Heath diet and training methodology in the magazine and everyone’s like right I’m going to do Phil Heath’s diet and training methodology well you’re not you’re not 25 years deep like Phil Heath is so it’s it’s it’s a case of looking at the individual context where are you

Weak where are you strong aligning your programming to complement your strengths but to allocate the time needed to improve your weaknesses and it’s not it’s not I’m not not criticizing anyone for assum like it’s just it’s just respecting the disciplines it’s it’s respecting that running is running is a

Skill yes it’s just a form of moving as a human being that’s pretty common but it is something that there is an infinite ceiling of skillfulness that comes with running in the same way that if you look at a powerlifter bench versus a recreational gymgo the powerlifter will probably bench more

Efficiently and it will look better in terms of biomechanics because that’s one of the points that they f focus on most from a skill point of view but because it’s a simple movement it’s easy to Discount the skillfulness of these movements especially with running so two in one shorts Shamy cream making sure

You’re not over striding and zone two training I’d say the big ones that’s we’re going to say about volume because it’s a it’s a non-negotiable that if you’re heavier you’re going to be putting more impact through the body through the joints through everything that you’re doing like if you’re running

In comparison to K try you’re putting a lot more impact through those joints because you’re carrying a lot more weight what would but also in General when I first started running I was as in when I just been lifting I was really robotic as in I felt like this really

Uncomfortable and now I’ve been doing it for like two years the difference is wild like how I used to run I’m not I’m not a perfect Runner Godly I am still built and I do I hold myself differently when I run like my biceps ache when I

Run because you’re holding your arms up and yeah Will Never Be the kip choies but over the years you can learn to run much more efficiently as you lift at the start it is it is uncomfortable if you’re lifting and you going to run it you’re like oh my God

This feels bizarre just as if a marathon runner went into the gym was bench pressing they’d be like oh my God like this feels so weird I think that’s okay to recognize that it feels a bit uncomfortable but if you push through it you actually will get better that’s the

Fun part because it’s the whole reason you’re trying something new is to get better at it and to learn so I think it’s again it comes back to the more you can put your ego to the side and and accept you’re trying something new the

More fun you can have with it because it means that every week can be a PB and that’s great we love PBS and when you’ve been Lifting for 10 years it’s quite hard to get them yeah I didn’t get one today my best ever milees 458 around 459

And you’ll train all year round though just to put an extra kilo or two on the bench yeah I I I will never lift as heavy as I did when I was a power lifter and I’m completely at peace with that because I’m no longer out of breath

Going up a flight of stairs so swings some around about um fueling for runs different if you’re a heavy Runner uh yeah so sodium intakes a big one in essentially you’ll probably require more sodium because your sweat rate will be a bit higher there’s two components to sweat composition and volume and short

Of getting a sweat test which you can do at lots of places around the UK you don’t need to burst yourself in a treadmill or anything you can just it’s it’s quite easy those can tell you your sweat rate and composition and prescribe products and volumes accordingly but if

You don’t want to do that and you’re sort of newer to things if you know that you’re a person that’s very sweaty in sort of whatever condition then you can assume your volume is high me there we go I literally always look like I’ve jumped in a pool it’s unbelievable so how salty

Are your clothes after you’re running not actually that bad after like a race it’s unbelievable how salty but I do take salts every day because of that reason okay so if you were very like caked in salt no I’m not whilst also sweating profusely you could assume that

You are very high volume very high composition but logically your high volume moderate composition which means that for the most part you should be able to get away with products that are about 500 migs of sodium per hour and be able to factor that in but all these things are trial and error

Whereas if you’re not a very sweaty person but what you do sweat is hyper concentrated then you might need a slightly higher sodium content in your racing fueling whatever it might be I need about 600 milligram per hour in about 750 MERS of fluid to be able to

Sort of keep on top of salts cuz I don’t sweat very much but Tri suits are always the giveaway I am caked it’s like I’ve been sing it’s just just wild um like today my hat was a bit a bit salty from five minutes of running so there’s a

High composition that comes out so essentially it’s important to look at the if you’ve got a sachche of like let’s use the hydrate sachet from my protein as an example they 189 milligram of sodium each if you were using them into a workout and you knew that you

Were very you you were a very salty sweater then you’d want to make sure that you were having two of them in a bottle if you were also a very high volume sweater You’ probably want to make sure you having a liter of water rather than 500 milliliters and it’s

It’s trial and error and learning how you feel learning how your performance is and adjusting week by week rather than just assuming that the product off the shelf is going to be hypers specific to you as well as that your heat expenditure will be higher so layering

And things like that are probably worth considering if it’s be bold to start cold is the the roll Marines phrase that is worth sticking by if if if you’re starting a run cold most of the time you’ll heat up as you go and you don’t want to be caught

Out 30 minutes into an hour run with a layer on that you can’t dump anywhere um but also it means that your that could increase sweat rate could increase salt rate so that could get things wrong and the carbohydrate intake you need will be a bit higher because you’ve obviously

Got more glycogen to to keep keep moving and that means that the sort of General prescription of about 60 grams of carbs per per hour for Iron Man athletes Marathon athletes something like that might be closer to 75 80 there’s research that indicates 100 I think it

Was I can’t remember what it came out of but 120 120 grams of carbs per hour actually led to a fairly tangible increase in sustained performance but 120 grams of carbs an hour in a race is very unpractical and difficult to manage so it’s a balance of what what is

Practical what works what can you consume what can your stomach tolerate but the only way you can get to those answers is through trial and error but generally speaking whatever body weight you are you shouldn’t re as long as you’re hydrated and fueled sort of from the night before or the morning you

Shouldn’t need to fuel up to 90 minutes in a training session generally speaking beyond that you want to make sure that you’re eating half an hour hour 90 minutes upwards so that you’ve got you’re not bonking because all it takes is one Bonk and you’ll never want to Bonk again I

Bonked Marathon well it was only last week okay well that’s it never going to happen again thought I thought honestly yeah I did GNA say we didn’t Bonk last night you were bonking no no h yeah I at very early on in the race which was like

Shock which was shock 28k I still did really well but yeah I was there a noticeable in data did you see a noticeable spike in heart rate and drop off and pacing things yeah at 28 it’s like unbelievable yeah yeah yeah it was great and it’s also I’m glad it happened

Cuz it was my first race marathon and I’m like I’m so glad that happened because for the next one I’ve got next month I’ve learned so much already like I think that’s the best thing to do you literally oh thank you you learn so much from when things are harder in a race

But when when your legs completely give out there’s no there’s nothing quite like it no no no unbelievable that’s why I asked about the data because it’s not just physi it’s like it’s not everything your body’s just like [ __ ] this and I was like oh my God I like what’s

Happening but again a lot of people might think that’s just like I’ve got a friend who r his first marathon um sort of before we properly properly knew each other and he was like crippled on the side of the road with cramp like properly just sidelined because I asked

Him like what salt products we having like what do you mean I was like what do you mean what do you mean sked her um and he just had no idea that you had to consume any sodium during a race and a woman gave him a salt tablet that was

Like a EpiPen to the eyeball and he got up and managed to finish it and the video of him the video of him Crossing is like imagine imagine sort of tiptoeing like a space invader in the Attic that’s kind of how he crossed the Finish Line because he was cramping so

Much but yeah he’s a sweaty sweaty bloke which means that he just rinsed himself of all sodium and then if he’s going to do another Marathon he now now knows what to do better and again that comes back to the earlier discussion is the amount of lessons and value that come

From Simply doing new things don’t just align themselves with the sport itself and you doing a your first performance-based marathon will carry over into when you do an IM man in the future when you do your next 10K half Etc all that stuff and had you been caky

And arrogant and narrow-minded in your training to get to that point and thought that you knew it all and that your way was the only right way to do things you probably wouldn’t have learned that lesson and that’s where I think hybrid training broadens the access for people to give

New things a go learn new lessons develop new skills without having to fall into trap of comparing themselves or AB KN at what place they came there no one compare to because you’re so individual as a hybrid athlete and that’s the beauty of it I think it’s so wonderful that you actually can’t

Compare to anyone yeah because your body weight’s different you look different the muscle like everything’s so different and I think that’s the beauty of it because it it means so many people can do it and try it and start it and then I think when you do start that

Approach you love it we we did it humbling because your was a beginner starting something when I started fighting it was it was you got the [ __ ] kicked out of me it was humbling again and it carried that across into other things scary can you ever be too heavy to run like overweight

Heavy no but depends on how we’re categorizing running distance etc etc I I there could be a weight where it might be more efficient and more sensible to build up walking volume 100% I don’t know what that weight is that’ll depend on leverages mechanics if you’re 6’6 with

Femur up to your nipples that’ll be different to if you’re 5 fo three with really short legs in terms of mechanics so in again as with all things individual well individuality comes into play more than a gen generic answer and yeah I I think the the societal assumption is always I want to

Lose weight therefore I should start running that’s the always the big one that’s the one that gets me and it’s it’s run that’s why I always people run is not the best way for people to lose weight because the repeatability and sustainability of it long term for

Someone who’s heavy and doesn’t enjoy it it’s just yeah it’s you can you can build up your walking volume to be able to run and then you might find out that you love running and then you’ve you’ve you’ve discovered that you’ve discovered that there is a method of exercise that

You enjoy and is fulfilling for you that also might help with your caloric expenditure over the course of a week to help you to continue to lose weight but yeah I’m I’m firmly against exercise in and of itself as a as a as a body composition metric I’m very performance

Goal oriented and I’d be I’d be sort of speaking outside of my Lane talking at sort of certain levels of body weight bringing it all the way down in terms of what the best Pathway to do would be um without the individual context but yeah generally speaking I think over a

Certain body weight the the aspiration should be to be able to run efficiently whatever that looks like any body weight the aspiration should be to whatever it takes to run efficiently if that means you spend the first six months of that on a exercise bike then that’s what’s

Required to be able to run efficiently at the back end and everybody’s timeline is different and everybody’s mechanics are different so so the boring answer is it depends yeah well that’s what I mean with scale as well you can start walking then you can walk run and you can run it’s it’s uh

Completely dependent just to for people who listen to this one it may well be run at the moment just to to to tie in the podcast tell me why or convince me why I should stop running headphones why should you run with headphones cuz I can multitask what are

You multitasking on podcasts would you multitask if you were doing a financial spreadsheet in terms of would you be on the phone to somebody else filling in a spreadsheet no but that is something like sort of psychologically demanding where I’m doing physical and psychological together it’s a lot easier

For me to comprehend but you’re distracting the focus required from the motor pattern in the skill that comes with improving your efficiency and running over time and in my opinion detaching yourself from the break from the need to to be multitasking at all times that will come from running a

Business where actually just being outside without having your phone on you without worrying about any external stimuli could be very valuable for your mental health as a decompressor i instinctively the first time I had a long run was thinking can I wear headphones in my event the answer was no

Therefore I thought I’m not going to run with that head I’m not going to run with headphones and ever since I think I’ve done four runs since then I use my treadmill to be fair but I I very rarely use treadmill but that’s there’s nothing to engage with but if you’re outside if

You’re at a track I I think there’s a huge amount of value of really one getting comfortable being in your own head because for people to think I’m going to spend two hours without any external stimuli in this day and age is terrifying because our attention spans

About three and a half seconds long so I think I think for zone two stuff at the very least if you can try without you will get a lot more from the area in which you live you will come up with thoughts and ideas that you probably

Wouldn’t have got to unless you were in that setting that the podcast might have distracted you from because in in the saying breath it’s given me a lot of ideas to go back to and just listen to that podcast so there’s like there’s give and take and benefits and

Disadvantages to both of them I again it is always going to come down to depending would running without headphones make you feel uncomfortable if I said you need to do it you need to do you need to run for two hours tomorrow you’re not allowed headphones

Would you go oh that sounds a bit [ __ ] uh potentially because like I don’t always enjoy doing long runs so for me it’s like it’s an extra thing to kind of keep me enjoying the thing like when I was doing the long runs for the marathon I listened to a three hour

Podcast and I felt like the Run went like that I didn’t want to do it there’s I I think there’s a time and a place for that but I also think there’s a time and a place to have to wrestle with the discomfort that comes from not having

Any external stimuli yeah and I think that there’s I’m not I’m I’m not a complete Zealot so everybody need to stop using them cuz I stopped about five months just pull ship down out the [ __ ] podcast to do no I stopped cuz mine broke and I was like oh my God I

Have to run without headphones I’ve never looked back I love listening to my feet Hit the Floor I’m also running better I’m faster because I’m not running or being distracted by the music in terms of pace so if a song would change you automatically go in and then

It it drops back and then my pace is consistent my heart rate is consistent and I I like how sometimes hard it feels when you’ve got you’ve no external voice because I’m that voice now like got the evence like you’ve done this before this

Is hard this is fine so I I try and I think it helps with like resilience I have I have I did say just try one without and I think you won’t look back I I don’t wear them anymore no I I agree but again there’s a time in a place and

I think podcast probably like the the big one is if you’re doing a list run and you have slip knot in your ears you’re probably going to come out of zone two pretty fast if you’re listening to a podcast that probably isn’t a fair thing to level at you but sometimes I

Just like listen to stupid [ __ ] as well yeah so like guy [ __ ] about like some fellow been out on the weekend and stuck something up his bum and he got lost and he’s I me like I laugh out loud stff it’s yeah yeah yeah again it’s I think I’d only advocate for

You not using headphones if the thought of running without them made you like panic because there were a lot of people that will drive to a track or drive to go somewhere for the run or leave the house and realize the headphones are out of charge and like well time run now

When in reality that that that is a completely controllable uh variable I I did a lot of En joy that World Car world record carer as well just long walks with them so I think that’s why I’m just not it doesn’t phase me I just if I have the

Option to put something them are or do it I think I think if you ever run in a new place or you go to environments that I never listen to anything then yeah yeah that’s what I’d recommend being a bit aware of your saf is a big part

That’s the obvious one I should for like women as well whove r on their own yeah I always even though I did listen one would play and I wouldn’t have something in the other and that was just me being as a woman running on your own a little

Bit more paranoid even though I think I’d outrun them or I’d push them in the canal that’s what I hope you do actually as a woman on your own get a little bit so I’ve always had one that’s why those bone ones are good that we just got yeah

They’ve got some that sit here and again I I use them in a swimming pool once CU I had a 5k swim and it was just at the end of a long week and I was like [ __ ] me I’ve got a 5k swim in a

Pool on a Friday I do not want to do this that’s two and a half hours best part of it in a pool yeah so I thought I borrowed my mates after shocks put them on for one session got through it and then because I’d done it when I had a 6K

Swim the following week no it wasn’t going up in K it was going up in half hours so it was the three hour swim the following week I just cracked on and I like because I I kind of knew what to expect yeah and actually I got into a

Bit of a game in my head where every time I wanted to look in look at my watch I told myself check it in two laps you’re you’re going to check your watch this time you’re going to check your watch hsy and then you’re off again and then

Sometimes like I the one I was swimming in London docks once and I had a 2our swim and I did not look at my watch until 1 hour 5856 beautiful and I was about 400 meters from the Ponto and I was like [ __ ] time this wrong but also I was just

Absolutely Blown Away by the fact that I was like I reckon that’s about yeah like I could actually I could actually pinpoint quite nicely at what point I was at based on the perception of yeah like how I could I became my own clock which is weird but again three hour

Swims aren’t common place so some of this might not be relevant I I the stair M those three hour ones but it’s good Mr Fergus Crawley where can people find more of you sir at Fergus Crawley on all social platforms except Twitter not interested and at om a performance from a coaching

Point of view and the that’s pretty much it yeah the mod mine podcast as well which is about to properly relaunch we’ve taken an unplanned break due to significant delays in Wi-Fi going to the office and significant delays to the podcast Studio but it means we’re going

To be doing a lot more iners stuff which is going to be great yeah at Focus Crawley on Instagram and focus Crawley on YouTube main platforms there I’m on Tik Tok as well if you care I don’t personally um but I will just put up reals and YouTube shorts on there and

Hope for the best check back every six days or so and then yeah om your performance on other platforms we’ve got a lot of stuff going on at the moment and if anyone wants to join us for an inperson event in March 2024 those tickets have just gone live did we get

Invites to that as well uh we’ve got a couple PR places so we we’ll talk we’ll talk that be exciting we’ll talk but yeah it’s very exciting we did our first test a few weekends ago and um very good fun very good fun and hybrid training

Quote unquote can be quite lonely so I think a big thing is we would like to be able to lead the charge in the UK at the very least on really bringing that Community together and Connecting like-minded People CU yeah I’ve isolated myself from a training point of view a

Lot more than that I have done previously training this way so I don’t want to I don’t want to evangelize for that I want to create ways to make that better for people that are trying to achieve all the things that we’ve discussed without the egos that raise

The barrier to entry too high that prevent people from trying new things that’s lovely that’s be it should be a slogan for your event I’m sold be [ __ ] long SL soundes the sound bites chop chop chop chop chop and we’ll be good to go thank you very much thanks so much it’s

A pleasure as always see a little spill at the end okay I thought we were going to do this bill for everyone who is listening and watching on YouTube Spotify Apple podcast wherever you are please keep listening tag us all your stories when you share it we appreciate

You we appreciate you leaving reviews because it really does help the podcast and thank you so much again Fergus you were a pleasure to speak to thank you very much and I should fail five minute miles more often because that’s probably the most outspoken on some topics I’ve

Been in a while but again good good lesson that actually failure can be as enriching as it is ly quote unquote failure so Happy Days