Planet Normal: Don’t Panic! | Podcast

This episode was recorded before the evening’s events in the House of Commons.

You can read more here on the Telegraph’s live blog: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/02/21/rishi-sunak-latest-news-atkins-labour-snp-gaza/#comment

It was a double by-election blow for the Conservative Party as Labour claimed victory in Wellingborough and Kingswood. In what is now a common occurence the third by election next week in Rochdale sees your co-pilots welcome standing candidate George Galloway onto the rocket to hear his fighting talk.

He argues the Labour Party have brought ‘disgrace’ to the constituency and that his party is ‘ready to punish them’. He also puts forward his case for bringing Boris Johnson back as leader of the Conservatives…

Liam thinks that despite the polls predictions, we might see a closer General Election result than people expect.

And Allison, who has taken umbrage with Party Leader Penny Mordaunt’s politics in the past, still champions her as a better leader than the current PM.

And your co-pilots salute the genius that was Dad’s Army and take a march down memory lane…

Read more from Liam: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/authors/liam-halligan/ |
Read more from Allison: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/authors/a/ak-ao/allison-pearson/ |

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Five labor once again brought disgrace upon Rochdale and we’re ready to punish them for only 107 more people voted labor in Wellingborough than in the general election when they lost heavily I think label win as it currently stands but I think it’ll be a lot closer than people think so how did

You manage as a journalist before you me I mean you couldn’t even count barely barely functioning at all One we have the welcome once again to Planet norble the telegraph podcast with Allison pearon hello and me Liam Halligan it was a double byelection whammy for the conservatives Allison rishy sank party lost in both Welling Bru in Northampton sh and Kingswood in South glir last week labor overturned majorities of more than

18,000 and 11,000 respectively to win the two seats does this leave the Tories staring down the barrel of a major defeat whenever the general election arrives or was there some solace in the by-election fine print for number 10 there’s another byelection approaching Rochdale which is being contested by

None other than the left-wing Firebrand Gorgeous George Galloway who in recent years has specialized in targeted attacks on his once beloved labor party does Galloway think he’ll win Clint ing yet another dramatic Victory and if so why we’ll find out later in the show and in the meantime co-pilot the NHS has

Just introduced Martha’s rule in hospitals across England from April enabling patients and families to seek an urgent review if their condition deteriorates this follows a campaign we’ve previously highlighted by journalist marip Mills whose daughter Martha died at Kings College Hospital in London from sepsis while being treated

For an injury sustained after she fell off her bike but why do we need a Martha’s rule which isn’t even a rule why does so many patients feel NHS staff don’t always take them seriously also Allison the House of Lords economic Affairs committees just published a report arguing that

Transitioning to a low carbon economy is quotes necessary but will be quotes much more expensive than people imagine there’s a substantial fiscal cost to achieving anything close to net Z said Olivier blard former Chief Economist of the international monetary fund the public doesn’t believe he went on or has

Not been made to understand that it’s going to be costly for them well it is going to be costly and that message has to be sent out bla told peers there’s plenty of news around co-pilot so what caught your BDI this week well there’s lots to get stuck into isn’t there

Co-pilot but I think we can’t really launch we can’t let the rocket take off without the outstanding metaphor for the state of Britain fired during a nuclear submarine I’m going struggle to read this out sorry by during a nuclear submarine test a trident missile dramatically misfire this is a British

Trident missile dramatically misfire and plopped into the ocean the ministry of Defense has confirmed listen to this you love this an anomaly occurred that’s one for the planet normal lexan and apparently Grant shaps are ill fated defense secretary and the Chief admiral of the fleet was on board when this

Missile went rogue I mean can we think of a better image for the state of the British military if Dad’s Army was Atomic except it isn’t Don’t Panic Captain mine Don’t Panic CRA we’re all doomed we’re all doomed we are doomed the previous test tried and test Us in 2016 and that also

Fails so the good news is leam we have a nuclear deterrent but it just won’t launch oh my goodness me anyway lots more to say but that does seem to be tap into the theme that nothing works does it nothing works just before we move on we

Can’t mention Dad’s Army can we without saying rest in peace to the wonderful Ian lavender who died earlier this month we didn’t mention him no on the rocket we did talk about him offline didn’t we with his Burnley scarf or Aston Villa or West Ham or that his mom knitted for him

What a fantastic actor and what a fantastic show that was and just the whole cast I mean Pitch Perfect weren’t they each one of them and John La Missour it was always sort of slightly hanging in the air that he was Pike’s Dad wasn’t it that’s right as well as

Being the voice of bod of course oh Clive Dunn was Lance corporal whatever his name Jones Corporal Jones Jones that’s right that’s right he had of course the amazing Arthur low as Captain mannering and then you had Arnold Ridley as that really old bloke private Godfrey he was old even then and

That was years ago he always looked like he needed the L didn’t he he was always he was always jumping up and down on the spot and then Jones was going permission to speak sir I think when you look back them I mean it was just absolutely Blissful but I think gentler times

Indeed you know it was the classic sort of British comedy Sergeant Wilson of course was more upper class it was sort of Jes and berti wasn’t it really it was the the the mannering was the sort of upwardly mobile bank manager but that’s right God we do miss them back in the

Times when we thought it were gentle times when we thought minder and the professionals were violent yes absolutely so what about these byelections we knew the Tories were going to get Wallops but they really got hammered didn’t they they got splattered as Sir John Curtis Britain’s best

Theologist would say not really the word bloodbath Springs to mind as you know in with my Velma hat on or my belma orange Jersey on I’ve been keeping a close eye on the detail so as you said in the top Lim that labor one how did you manage as

A journalist before you met me you couldn’t even count barely functioning at all I F I fell back on my talent with the English language but now I now I’ve given that up just a card carrying statistician I am a card carry no but the statistics are actually

Didn’t think I’d ever hear myself saying this but they are terribly interesting because what we’re seeing what we saw last week and probably in weeks to come is what looked like last week two stunning labor victory is but then if we dig down a bit what we see is in um in

Welling BR where benhabib one of our favorites was running for reform so labor the number of votes cast for labor in Welling bro was 13,844 but that was an increase on the 2019 general election performance of only 107 votes it’s unreal isn’t it only 107 more people people voted labor in

Welling bror than in the general election when they lost heavily and the Tories this is last week they got 7,48 votes and the number of people who didn’t vote conservative the Tory vote went down by 24, 869 so this once again what we are seeing is not an overwhelming

Enthusiastic vote for labor and K star we are seeing a massive disillusion absolute refusal to vote conservative by former conservative voters it’s the surge of apathy it is it say something else Allison unbelievably you say rightly that in Welling bro labor only got 100 odd votes

More than they did in 2019 guess what in Kingswood in South glosser labor got 5,000 votes less than they got in 2019 they got less didn’t know that that’s because you’re not me right you can wear R’s roll neck right you can pretend you know a bit about statistics but I will

Always Trump you I’m so cross You’ Trump me thought i’ done some really good deep diving there you did but you missed the story the story wasn’t that lab already got 100 more votes in one the story actually was that label got 5,000 less votes in Kingswood than they did in 2019

Or be on a much lower turnout the turnout in Kingswood in 2019 was over 70% because that was a general election of course this time it was less than 40% so what we’re looking at and this genuinely is extraordinary I think is we are looking at a potential labor

Landslide one of the recent polls gave labor a majority of 32 unbelievable we are looking at a dominant labor government which if Trends continue won’t be considered to be much cop by the British people at all so they’re going to win by default and by the way let’s not spare the Tories

Part in this because you were asking me earlier and I think I should come clean here you said to me because we had a story in the telegraph didn’t we that the Tories would be doing better in the forthcoming general election if they were led by Penny Morant yeah that was a

Recent opinion poll which I thought would Chim with a lot of Planet normal listeners of course because when MN squared off against sunak you wrote very prominently and I agree with you at time by the way that MN would be better for the Tories than sunak yeah and I should

Say because I got a lot of stick actually from some Planet normal listeners and from some Telegraph readers it has to be said saying that you know particularly on things like gender identity and so on Penny Moran is certainly a lot more liberal than a lot of conservatives but my championing of

Her Liam was I was looking ahead and I was thinking how are we going to avoid a vast majority labor government the thing I thought that Penny could do is Penny could bring along the sort of one nation lib Demi end of things and also would I

Think play very very well in to the Tory base which is entirely given up on rishy sunak in fact share of the Tory vote has fallen by 21.5% in byelections since Rishi sunak entered number 10 in October 2022 and that is basically the worst vote share for RoR incumbent since

Records began in 1950 and it’s hugely worse hugely worse than John Major bless him Penny’s politics are not a good match for mine you know but lightly mock me for my genas K Tendencies so she wouldn’t have been entirely a match but you and I have met her individually and

Together we spent quite a lot of time with her we both think she’s a very plausible person and she is a very interesting person in that she’s obviously from the sort of one nation part of the conservative party but that is the biggest part of the Parliamentary

Party best remember and yet also she has very close and genuine links with our military particularly the rawal Navy where she’s reservist very knowledgeable she was a former Defense secretary not for very long but she was really highly regarded in that role by the defense establishment which again is unusual for

A Tory from her end of the party but she’s a very unusual Tory because her background was she didn’t go to university at a normal age for going to University because her mom very tragically died of cancer and she had two small brothers and she basically

Became the mom in the home she said without any self-pity she said she used to do the weekly wash in the bath not many yeah Tories of that level who have had that struggle she was famously a conjurer’s assistant to be clear I don’t think the policies would necessarily be

Much better now but what I do think is that she would not be minus 42% popularity which is where we find rishy sunak and it would be a much much closer run thing if Morant was pm and I think sta is eminently beatable eminently beatable but what we’ve got is we’ve got

Very weak leader and we’ve got massive disillusion and I actually think it’s not just Penny Moren I think if kemi or Suella or pretty Patel were currently the leader as I said before Lim bring on the girls but also while we’re on the subject of starma and labor heading for

This undeserved Landslide not a popular Landslide if such a thing can oxymoron isn’t it but we’re now facing a situation today we’re recording on Wednesday where labor is in all sorts of trouble over the war in Gaza and as we are recording I’ve just seen a tweet

From Nicholas watt who is news night’s political editor saying senior labor figures tell me that the common speaker Lindsay Hil was left in no doubt that labor would bring him down after the general election unless he called Labor’s Gaza Amendment and he’s a labor MP it’s a lab

KY not that he ever acts as a labor MP as Speaker he’s absolutely brilliant brilliantly evenhanded but that is his tribe he’s labor MP for Charlie for years so he’s a huge Improvement on burkow as we know so this situation over Gaza particularly with the coming Rochdale by election uh anti-Semitism

The poison of anti-Semitism now we’ve got this massive bust up because Kama who has admirably to my mind held the line on Israel’s right to defend herself and has called for a humanitarian ceasefire when the circumstances are right now being basically strong armed to try and avoid another Rebellion there

Was a huge rebellion in November Liam I think it was about 56 labor MPS rebelled and voted for a full ceasefire including eight front benches so starma is now in a very tough place and altering another U-turn the starma u-turns are now becoming legendary but what do you make

Of it I’m really upset that we are heading towards being a race obsessed country where conflicts in foreign Parts dominate the behavior of our Parliament I’ll come on to that Allison I’m just looking at a table here historic table of parliamentary majorities over the last 100 years yeah because you just

Cited a poll where labor got a majority in excess of 300 I will literally eat my hat if that happens the biggest parliamentary majority I can see in the last Century in MO was just after the first world war when Lloyd George’s Coalition got 283 seat majority Baldwin got 210 in

1924 Baldwin then got 242 in 1935 under national government the only number in recent times that’s remotely near that is when Tony Blair got 179 seats majority in 1997 the election we both remember well there’s no way anyone’s going to get majority over 300 and I don’t even think starm will get anywhere

Near 179 seats I actually think the election I think label will win as it currently stands but I think it’ll be a lot closer than people think and I do think there’s a little bit of sucker in these recent byelection results for the Tories Allison not least because as you

Say the support for labor was very thin on the ground indeed given the extent of the concern in those constituencies and the way the various MPS left those constituencies neither was straightforward but when it comes to Gaza we’re going to see again superimposed onto British politics foreign conflicts aren’t we with this

Other byelection in Rochdale on the 29th of February that seems to me to be some kind of a referendum on the mainstream party’s view on Israel Palestine you’ve got George Galloway yeah coming through a very skilled campaigner you don’t agree with him on almost anything but

You were very Keen for him to appear on planet normal we’ll hear from him in the moment Allison much to your credit is the kind of podcast we are all comers are welcome but he’s probably going to win in Rochdale on the 29th of February and that is going to be an earthquake

And that’s going to make it very difficult for the labor party in particular given that a lot of the Muslim vote tends to go towards labor certainly in recent years a recent servation poll said in the aftermath of Labor taking a very pro-israeli St after the 7th of October that Hamas attack on

Israel of course and then Israel’s retaliation killing tens of thousands of people a survation poll says that whereas back in 2021 80 to 90% of Muslims would vote labor that’s now down to 60 and in a seat like Rochdale where you’ve got a third of the population is

Muslim it could really be key and it strikes me that the bookies are right and Galloway is going to come through the middle and win in Rochdale I disagree I’m not sure but I think it’s interesting because it’s I was trying to write down I was trying to

Do a sort of Ven diagram of the RO by elction and it’s complete Madness isn’t it so on the ballot is Azar Ali as the labor candidate so Azar is Mr Ali is the only one who hasn’t been a labor MP all the other people on the ballot who have

Been labor MPS so you’ve got George Galloway you’ve got Simon danuk who was a very popular labor MP for Rochdale he’s now standing for reform and what I think Could Happen Liam yeah is I think AAR Ali who’s now standing as an independent after being chucked out by

Starma after a bit of a delay for really quite hideous anti-semitic remarks I think Azar Ali and George Galloway could end up fighting over the Muslim votes and it could well be that Simon danuk as the reform cand that comes through and white people in Rochdale who think gazer

Was used to play football for England rather than being of immediate topical importance do you mean Gaza Gaza Gaza exactly yes that was a joke that was almost quite good and muff sorry but let me just tell Planet normal listeners the story I heard which I think is terribly

Revealing stopped laughing at me I thought it was a good joke it was a good joke but he just messed up the execution but carry on carry on Inus I’ll delegate you to tell all my jokes that’s right that’s right you queue him up and I’ll

Knock him out the park I saw Ali who was exposed on a tape wasn’t he I think it was the mail on Sunday caught him on tape at a meeting of Lancashire labor saying among other things the kind of conspiracy theory that Israel had relaxed its guard a bit on the 7th of

October or it had basically been been quite pleased about the atrocious Hamas massacres because that gave them as our Ali said to this me the green light to go into Gaza so that’s an extremely inflammatory and controversial thing to say but what I’ve been told Liam is that AAR Ali as

Somebody very senior in labor put it is not one of the Nutters okay he is a blairite he is one of the moderates he has been very friendly with the Jewish community and with Jewish MPS like Labour Louise Elman so what was going on what possessed this previously moderate

Rather nice man who had made a point of being friendly to Jews and other ethnic minorities what possessed him to say those vile and anti-semitic things what we are looking at here potentially is the shape of things to come quite moderate uh labor figures maybe having

To bend and sway in the face of anger in the Muslim Community over starma stance and not calling for an immediate ceasefire and as I understand it the SNP amendment that they I think they’re voting on tonight so we’ll know the result by the time Planet normal goes

Out tomorrow the SNP Amendment or motion is much tougher is that right I mean that yeah P says hamus must release the hostages but the labor Amendment also says Israel cannot be expected to have a ceasefire if Hamas doesn’t cease violence it’s itself so this is It’s a foreign conflict that’s looming large

Now in domestic politics with I am very afraid some really nasty racist KnockOn effects for our politics it’s a fascinating issue Allison and it will be a fascinating byelection but just before we move on I did want to ask you about Martha’s law we did highlight the case

Of merie Mills a newspaper columnist whose dear daughter arur died of sepsis at King’s College London Hospital no less after she and her husband felt they were ignored or not taken seriously enough their concerns by Duty doctors and now the health secretary Victoria Atkins has made an announcement yes she

Has what they’re promising is that from April Mara’s rule will pertain in a 100 hospitals although it is a voluntary opting in Liam and it’s a kind of escalation process basically if the relatives of patients are feeling unhappy then they can use this Martha’s rule to escalate the care and ask for an

Urgent second opinion now on the face of it it does look good and obviously we have bar sympathy for moroi Mills and her husband and their other daughter Mara’s sister it’s a completely tragic case my beef with it Liam and I did get quite avoid listening to the today

Program this morning is it feels like a sticking plaster on a grotesquely broken Health Service and I I noticed that moroi Mills had she’s on the guardian she’s obviously a very successful editor and journalist but she was very much sounding the note of we understand the NHS is in crisis staff are

Overstretched sometimes doctors are incredibly overstretched they can’t always spot these things and Martha’s rule it’s say saves one child’s life then it will be worth it but I think that more anger is Justified we have a Health Service that is not functioning it’s not a Health Service that a

Developed country should have and I just think that this tendency particularly listening to marope Mills on the radio this morning and I thought you’re being so understanding really about what’s happened to your beautiful child and I just think more anger is merited really it’s a terrible story but we know for

Example Telegraph had a story this week due to the junior doctor strike 7,000 cancer operations are being cancelled unbelievable we know what that means Lim we know what that means that some people in among that 7,000 are going to have an earlier death first Do no harm first Do no harm so monumentally

Selfish I think I’m all for doctors being well paid and we should certainly be training more doctors of our our own but what we’re seeing is a Health Service that just gets off the hook and this feels to me like a bit of a gimmick

What did you think I agreed I felt how can we possibly judge the actions of moroi Mills and her husband after such a tragedy we can’t but I do think when I heard the health secretary on the radio this morning it did sound a bit gimmicky

To me yeah you can just imagine arrogant Medics rolling their eyes oh we got another couple internet Warriors who think they’re doctors I’ve come across this myself in hospital situations yeah where I don’t feel I’m being taken seriously and other members of my family have too we all want great

Doctors in the NHS and we know there are great doctors in the NHS we also know there are some doctors who seem to have some kind of campaign of not allowing patients to come to their GP surgeries the number of face-to-face consultations still well below the pre pandemic

Average and we also know that for some strange reason that we can never seem to get to the bottom of We aren’t training nearly enough doctors in this country the BMA they would deny this the doctor’s Union seem to have some kind of closed shop going on here where

Excellent students with hatfuls of a stars at gcsc hatfuls of a stars at a level can’t get into medical school and then we have to import doctors from else where often poorer countries depriving those countries of their much needed Medics I don’t think it’s right that doctors should be trained at the public

Expense and then they can go off and do private work for a big chunk of their career or work like one day a week or two days a week as befits their lifestyle if the state is paying big money to train you as a doctor that comes with an obligation certainly if

You Joy the British army you have to buy yourself out if you want to leave I’m not here to have a go at doctors but I do think there is a major problem here with the attitude of some of our doctors or at the very least with the perception

Of the public towards some of our doctors and that isn’t the Public’s problem that’s the nhs’s problem that’s the doctor’s problem and they need to do something and the fact that there should be some kind of law that allows patients to feel that they’re being taken seriously is more indicative of the

State of play of R NHS I think than it is indicative of the Goodwill of the particular secretary of state who’s announced it yes and labor has promised West streeting to his credit has promised to double the number of medical training places from 7,500 that’s the

Cap at the moment to 15,000 let me just say Liam I saw a private GP many people now not necessarily wealthy people are seeking out private GPS because they can’t see their own local doctor for four weeks or with a telephone appointment and this private GP said she

Had been committed to the NHS but it was absolutely fcal she said if someone came in with a leg injury she knew they had to have an MRI scan or a scan but she knew that if she referred them for a scan the NHS would say no you’ve got to

Put them on the physio pathway for six weeks so she’d put them on the physio pathway for six weeks and the leg would still be very bad and the person wouldn’t have been able to work so then she’d ask again can I send them for a

Scan so she said she did one day week private GP work to remind myself of why I wanted to be a doctor for expert analysis of the Israel Hamas War listen to battle lines an original Telegraph podcast follow on the ground reporting and understand how the conflict is reshaping our world the

Small country everyone knows someone whose relatives have been killed or kidnapped Palestinians in Gaza living through a bombardment that they’ve never experienced before listen to battle lines every Friday on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts now onto our planet normal guest George Galloway’s political

Marmite but love him or loath him only a fool would underestimate his brains and rhetorical Firepower Galloway first entered Parliament as a labor MP in 1987 having beaten the mighty Roy Jenkins in Glasgow hillhead before being expelled from labor in 2003 for his Fierce opposition to the Iraq War Born Into the

Labor movement his father a union man his mother an Irish Republican Galloway joined labor age just 13 and was elected chairman of the party in Scotland at the preposterously young age of 26 in 2005 Galloway defeated prominent blairo MP una King in Bethel green and bow for the respect party tapping into deep

Discontent among Muslim voters concerning the Iraq War building on his long-standing support for Palestine Galloway aims to get back into Parliament later this month on February the 29th when he contests the rochow B elction for the Workers Party once again tapping into anti-israeli sentiment among local Muslims who make up around a

Third of the population in the Rochdale constituency I started by asking George Galloway if he was surprised surpris that bookmakers now have him as the favorite odds on to win in Rochdale on February the 29th George tell us your thoughts ahead of the Rochdale byelection it looks as

If you’re going to win this thing well The Bookies think so but uh as zimran Khan said once I played to the last ball so until the last hour in the last Street we’ll be chasing every vote because we don’t just want to win we want an overwhelming rejection

Of labourism in Rochdale which has brought such misery and disgrace upon the town and the size of the majority will reflect that we hope so my thoughts are that uh labor once again brought disgrace upon Rochdale and we’re ready to punish them what’s your view of Labour’s response to the 7th of October

An event since then George well uh entirely compromised by Kier starmer’s very belated conversion to I think his word was unqualified support for netanyahu’s Israel I say late because I was present in the room and pictures exist of kir starmer in 2015 on a platform in front of a banner saying

Kick Israel out of FIFA the International Football Association a that was in 2015 all of 9 years ago but he hasn’t half changed it’s been a conversion on the road from Damascus and how do you think the British public feels about Israel the two main parties they’re very very

Staunch in their support for Israel aren’t they are they missing a trick here do the broader population feel differently I I think they overwhelmingly are Westminster as you know and much of the M stream media is a bubble I consider it rather a toxic bubble and I think in Rochdale and

Elsewhere in the country they’re going to see that Bubble Burst there are millions millions and millions of British people who are appalled agass at the pictures and video that they’re seeing hourly minute by minute and yet the Ironclad consensus between the two front benches is is right behind Israel

That’s beginning to Splinter I think the appointment of David Cameron the first man to describe Gaza as an open air prison camp and he did that when he was prime minister in Turkey in 20010 he is outflanking starma on this subject from the foreign office even

Starma OB in weasel wordss at the labor Scottish conference has begun to try and mask a retreat from his previous positions but too little too late I think many many former labor supporters will think you’re a Scottish national Georgia proud Scot standing in an English seat basically contesting issues

That are happening in the Middle East is there a danger that we superimpose onto our domestic politics um foreign politics isn’t that fundamentally a dangerous path to go down George well it’s the government and the opposition that are superimposing a relationship with to say the least an extremely controversial foreign State

Thousands of miles away it’s they who are backing Israel funding Israel arming Israel prizz for Israel and exercising their right in the United Nations on behalf of Israel it’s not that I want to be endlessly dealing with matters in the Middle East quite the contrary as the um

Character in The Sopranos Steve VanZant said famously I kept trying to get out but they kept pulling me back in that’s what’s happened again here on this so around six and a half or 7% of the UK population now is Muslim we’ve seen this tendency for Muslim Community leaders to try and encourage

Their fellow Muslims to vote along religious lines we’ve got this website Muslim vote.co does that disturb you George when individual religious leaders are trying to get people to vote along religious almost tribal lines isn’t that a retrograde step in a modern democracy like the Reverend Ian pisy you mean so

You think there’s a genuine legitimate use of the internet to try and get people to vote along religious lines a lot of people would say that what’s happening in Northern Ireland is is retrogade and not fit for modern democracy there’s a fault in your premise the vast majority of people

Concerned about Gaza in Britain are not Muslims as any glance at any protest demonstration vigil up and down the length of Great Britain will show the vast majority I’m talking millions of people people involved in Endless protests for more than 130 days are not Muslim the idea that Gaza is a Muslim

Issue is simply wrong of course almost every Muslim cares about Gaza sadly not every non-muslim cares as much but Millions do so I think the premise is wrong but uh in any case there are no clerics encouraging people to support me here in rosdale I haven’t spoken inside

A single mosque and don’t expect to how’s it feel when you campaign on the ground George I know you’re a formidable campaigner I remember you campaigning in Bethel green and bow the East London seat which you won from una King does it feel like Bethal green and bow back then

Or is there a different atmosphere on the streets of rown now it feels better than that I beat unak king in 2005 relatively narrowly a better comparison would be Bradford West in the byelection in 2012 which I won by a 10,000 majority that would be a better comparison it

Feels like that and it has felt like that from the first week I mean I wish polling day was this Thursday instead of next Thursday if we can keep this rate of campaigning and response up then we’ll win a good victory here what’s your political antenna telling you

George now about the state of the labor party is starma on for a landslide or could there be some kind of comeback from the Tories and what role do you think reform are going to play We the Workers Party are to labor what reform are to the Tories and in one of the

By-elections last Thursday uh you could say that reform ensured the conservative defeat and we’re going to do that for labor in dozens maybe scores of places either us directly as the workers party or in the form of independent candidates whom we’ll definitely support and give the benefit of our experience to so

That’s a factor that hasn’t been properly number crunched yet I think that sunak is such a hapless hopeless Mr Bean that it’s probably the case that starmar will will still get in but he’ll be Gravely damaged by the time that happens and I don’t think he has the

Ideas or the dexterity for a king’s Council he comes across to me as pretty thick he lacks dexterity as well as depth he does everything you know a pace or two paces too slow I’ve called him a tin man it’s clunky so I mean we really

Are talking about it’s the opposite of a battle of the Giants you know between Zak and starma I don’t want to use Politically Incorrect word instead let me just leave it at the opposite of the battle of the Giants do you think Labor’s got an anti-Semitism problem

George I know it’s a question that’s often posed it’s a question that K starma recently has often said that he’s resolved well I think it was all a scam the weaponization of the charge of anti- semitism was deliberately engendered to weaken and Destroy Corbin and he failed

To rise to the challenge he should have said on the first day if necessary backed by his learned friends that being opposed to Israel and opposing the political ideology of Zionism is not anti-Semitism any more than being opposed to the government of Saudi Arabia is islamophobia Saudi Arabia is a

Political construct Israel is a political construct the Soviet Union was a political construct to be against those political construct is not to hate the people in that country You could argue it’s the opposite of that it’s seeking to save them from the political construct so we can’t go into it but I

Have begun legal proceedings against Rachel Johnson and Sky News in respect of the Trevor Phillip show yesterday and I will always do that I’ve got a certificate from the high court in London that I am not anti-semitic and that’s from the learn a judge Edy in a

Case that I won about 10 years ago if necessary I’ll get another one out of Rachel Johnson and Sky News what do you think is going to happen in the Middle East George you follow events there extremely closely even your worst enemies would say that you have a really

Detailed knowledge of the politics and the economics of the region do you still hold out for a two-state solution or is that now Pie in the Sky well I did support the two-state solution because I’ve always been as you probably know close to the late president AR and his

Political line now more or less overshadowed by the islamist organization Hamas but still existing in the Palestinian Arena I supported the Oslo agreement because Arafat explained to me why he concluded it that it was the best available and likely available solution to the Israel Palestine conflict I’m bound to say that in the

Last 30 years that we’ve been waiting for it to be implemented that Judgment of his and therefore mine has begun to look pretty threadbear it’s up to them if I were them I’d agree if I were marketing for them I would agree single state called The Holy Land in which Jews

Christians Muslims lived as equal citizens before the law but if they can agree on a two State solution and it really is a solution uh then bring it on we’ve got protests in London pretty much every weekend now listeners mail us at Planet normal saying that they feel intimidated coming into Central London

We’re talking about Jewish families living on the outskirts of London they feel intimidated by these constant protests here in the UK have you got any sympathy for them what would you say to them well I’d say that right at the front of of those demonstrations which

Are every two weeks not every week the Jewish block uh leads the March there are thousands of Jews on that demonstration uh that some you say feel intimidating so you know Liam I was underground in aparte South Africa during the 1980s as an underground operator for Nelson Mandela’s ANC

Every single person that facilitated my work in South Africa during a part night every one of them was Jewish led by the redoutable Max and audre Coleman and we were inspired by great Jews in the Exile who were leading figures in thec so Jews don’t have to be on the side of aparte

And I would say to your listeners that they should study more the reality of what’s happening there so how you feeling before polling day George what sort of campaigning agenda as we are now in the final full week of campaigning before the 29th of February it’s not

Quite the final forong but uh the final forong is in sight I suppose we’re just coming coming up on the inside rail to what I think will be a famous Victory I started out with a famous victory over Roy Jenkins in Hill head this would be

Good way to finish that’s how I feel so you think this may be the last seat you ever contest George I definitely will be the last seat I ever contest you’re a political junky what are you going to do with yourself afterwards well I’m 69 I’m 69 years old

And my youngest child is three so I really do have obligations to others having said that because it’s halterm where they live uh all my children are here with me in the campaign but uh five more years will do me fine Liam and finally what’s your advice to rishy

Sunak what would you say to the Tory leader what would be the Galloway way of campaigning now it’s probably too late to replace him but I really think he’s a miserable failure I called him Mr Bean at the beginning of this interview and uh I think although that just came to me

A second before I said it that is actually what he is and I just don’t think that the British people appreciate him in any regard neither personal nor political uh they they shouldn’t have gotten rid of Johnson they should have stuck with Johnson he’ at least have put

Them in a fighting position for me it’s a plague on both their houses they are two cheeks of the same ARs and nobody much enjoys what comes out between the two cheeks and on that bomshell George kway thanks a lot for joining us here on planet normal you’re welcome thanks

Liam well there you have it Allison he’s not your favorite person you and he have taken very different views of the conflict between Israel and Palestine in recent months and yet when I mentioned to you that I know him maybe he’d come on the rocket you were Keen to have him

On you were Keen to hear from him I wonder if we could persuade George to give up International socialism and become become conservative MP Liam even your legendary powers of persuasion would be tested he is a formidable operator isn’t he he knows his stuff everything you said to him he has an

Answer up his sleeve we could spend some time going through all the things that I violently disagree with him on but I don’t disagree that his analysis of the opposite of the battle of the Giants between sunak and starma is spot on describing rushi as a helpless hopeless

Hapless Mr Bean and starma being clunky and rather thick for a casc who can doubt any of that I think that he’s very skillful and of course I would say disingenuous talk when you put to him the charge of the the verifiable increase in Jewish fear particularly

About going into the capital city the huge rise 145% rise in anti-semitic attacks I don’t know who these Jews are are Marching at the front of these demonstrations in London but they certainly aren’t thousands and thousands as George Galloway claims and they will be in a minority because all the Jews I

Know and I was a co-founder of British friends of Israel all the Jews I know are absolutely horrified by these marches and indeed I think that the anti-Semitism has spread due to failure by the Metropolitan Police to clamp down on them very early on and something else

He doesn’t mention Liam really he didn’t really talk about Hamas when he says that there was a weaponization of the charge of anti-Semitism against to destroy Jeremy Corbin this is the same Jeremy Corbin who actually referred to Hamas as his friends that doesn’t tend to indicate a

Pho seite or pro-israeli point of view does it so I think that look he’s he’s extremely skillful and good value but I think George forgets to mention that while millions are very upset by what’s going on in Gaza Millions were aast by the bestiality and brutality of the 7th

Of October massacres on Israeli people now onto our listener emails your messages sent to Planet normal at telegraph.co.uk please keep them coming we love to read your thoughts citizens of Planet normal we had a fantastic response Liam to your your interview with Sophie winlan Last Week Big Su big

Su lots and lots of people wrote and expressed their appreciation Sara says thank you for inviting Sophie winlan to speak on planet normal the passion about this topic really hit me I’ve just returned from a holiday to Australia to visit grandchildren of two families one group of being homeschooled and have no

Access to technology the other group ages 4 to 12 were on screens all the time the difference the screen kids did not communicate even with their parents had difficulty concentrating on anything that wasn’t on a screen didn’t sleep well had limited exercise and no imagination the non-screen bunch were

Normal children active sociable happy I feel so incensed about what is happening to our young children I had no idea that things had got so out of hand I agree with you Allison that this outranks any other issue we are facing as a society thank you again for highlighting this as

I have felt like screaming to the world look what you are doing to our children there are no words however to convey my distress if you have a March about this even as a mid 70s granny I will be there Sara and this is from Sandy as a speech

And language therapist one of the saddest sites for me is walking into a silent classroom and seeing 30 children staring at individual screens this is a far more common site since covid even in reception classes of four-year-olds knowing how tight School budgets are I do wonder how they manag to provide a

Tablet for every child in some schools children as young as six even have a school email account that they use throughout the day I was lost for words recently when I heard a teacher tell her class to open their emails and to find the one she had just sent them

Explaining what they needed to do in the next task sfie winlan did not disappoint when discussing this topic she was knowledgeable articulate and passionate and I agreed with every word out loud at times excessive screen time has long been linked with negative effects on a child’s developing brain as well as

Language development this includes attention span memory ability to concentrate and behavior a DV report as early as 2011 recognized the impact of TV screens on Todd’s language development and how this predicted their performance on school entry a child’s vocabulary at age four is one of the best predictors of their later academ

Mic achievement therefore thought we should all be very worried that for children under three the more time they spend looking at a screen the greater the delay in language development even one hour a day has a negative impact on vocabulary children under three cannot learn new vocabulary from screens

Largely because of their singled channeled attention on and on she goes Liam really really devastating evidence in my job says Sandy I’m required to engage in evidence-based practice in everything I do surely the Department of Education should have the same requirement for schools children learn language best through social interaction

From simple toys books songs Rhymes and activities that they share with their parents and carers and this is what they prefer when I let children choose a favorite activity at the end of our sessions they never choose a screen screens are slowly destroying the communication skills of young children

The conversation skills of older children and the well-being of all children thank you for highlighting this since the first episode Planet normal has offered a glimpse of Common Sense amongst the madness and long may it continue you really do make a difference Sandy to remarkable emails there and we

Have had so many emails about Sophie winkelman’s interview last week listeners can of course catch up with it on the planet normal archive a very powerful intervention and I must say I was pleased to see the paper really picked up the interview this podcast and our beloved newspaper work together to

Promote a story really did a huge Splash and indeed the government seems to be fully in agreement with Sophie wigman given the announcements that they’ve made since but we shall see this is from Dan the ex army man he’s back he’s trying to take the crown of Planet

Normal poet in Chief from Bob The Bard anyway Dan the x ony man has been inspired by Allison highlighting how many times our prime minister says he has a plan ready for rishy writes down the ex army man the man with a plan at Winchester the pushy SWAT elbowed into

The head boy slot Oxford and Stanford beckoned too As rishy proved to be one of the few Ambitions not a dirty word when you stand out from the herd the first step of the plan a winning smile helped his cuse smooth the road and open doors playing with the big boys now the

World of Finance showed him how to gather riches few could match with a wealthy wife and easy catch then back to blighty Westminster calls for rishy To Tread those hallowed Halls safe SE Richmond not Southampton far too Lefty for his big plan on Yorkshire Wars bar

Tat and whip it but a labrador that’s the ticket a barber and some wiy boot oh rishy not with snazzy suits soon it’s into number 11 for rishy this is political Heaven his safe hands guard the nation’s wealth till covid strikes below the belt lockdown Sage Furlow and

Masks eat out to help out was the task cometh the hour cometh the man but this wasn’t in the plan whilst we may Mortals paid the price in number 10 champag on Ice boris’s party a hammer blow let them eat cake the prested crow Bojo fights

For his political wife but was it rishy welding the knife ready for rishy is now the slogan the party’s members aren’t impressed when trust Torpedoes richy’s plan he ends up being an also ran soon hapless Lizzy is ousted by bankers and rishia is crowned by a bunch

Of brexit and Ireland Wars and inflation Net Zero Rwanda immigration reform and labor starmar and T the polls aren’t looking very nice but I’ve got a plan is Rich’s refrain but shall we vote Tori never again well I tell you what down the army man he’s put up a strong

Challenge there to Bob The Bard Bob it is now your task to make a poem out of the fact that George Galloway thinks rishy sunac is the political equivalent of Mr Bean go to it we weigh your email the gaunlet has been thr so this is from Martin is you love

This Liam reading the prime minister’s Daily Telegraph article at 9:00 a.m. and I’m already drunk as a skunk playing rishy sunak bingo as devised by Allison 10 singles for every time rishy mentions he has a plan and a double for the headline hick Martin at least we feel no pain Martin

We’ll be numbed to the horror I tell you li listen to every minister they say we’ve got a plan we’ve got a plan and this is from Irene I’m a long listener to Planet normal proud mug owner and an immigrant from Africa married to an Essex boy I love this country says Irene

I’m just getting fed up with all the rhetoric around diversity targets racist countrysides and the overall feel that race and color are now the standard by which all is measured it’s so counterproductive it’s so patronizing to relax admission into institutions for quote people of color whatever that

Means as if we’re not smart enough now every time I’m chosen for anything my question will always be am I just a diversity higher I had a major interview a while back and one of the comments given before the interview was I already had an advantage because I’m black I got

The position but now at the back of my mind is the diversity comment was I just a tick in a diversity box I also now seem to get pointed to social justice Warriors whenever I have a project I’m working on is if I need someone to protect me from this state space of

Perpetual victimhood I’m supposed to occupy the country side is racist is it I live in a small village in the cwal I’ve never felt so welcome and so happy and wish I’d moved to the countryside earlier I come from a small rural Village in Kenya and this feels like

Home I’m not even sure where this email is going but just to let you know that we people of color really what does that even mean says Irene again do not all buy into this decolonization another buzz word of all aspects of British life and maybe the whoever makes these

Decisions need to talk to normal hardworking lawful immigrants in the country don’t get me started on the boats and the favor is given to unlawful immigrants who somehow all happen to be young men while the rest of us followed long and arduous but legal processes to the letter thank you for your podcast

That makes us realize that we’re not alone out here and there are still people who hold the values that hold British Society together God bless you both Irene oh well done Irene what a fantastic email and that’s it from planet all for another week because we leave our sanctuary of sweet reason our

Flying Refuge of Reason views email the week it’s Alison’s turn I’m going to give it to Sandy a speech therapist for her brilliant response to Sophie winkleman’s interview and thank you to everyone for writing about this most important topic of children having their childhoods damaged on screens so Sandy

Please do send us your full name and address and a much coveted Planet normal mug will be winging its way to you if you enjoy Planet normal and you doly was should please leave us a rating or a review on Apple podcast or Spotify helps others to find the podcast so the planet

Normal family can grow and as we speed away from our beloved Planet normal The Madness of planet Earth comes back into you thanks as ever to our wonderful producers Isabelle bajard casho and Louisa Wells stay safe and in touch with us and with each other until next week

It’s goodbye from me and it’s goodbye from him