Tom Cleverley Full Interview | Business of Sport Ep. 10

Today, we are delighted to welcome Tom Cleverley. Tom is a former England, Manchester United, Everton and Watford midfielder. Tom played over 300 league games, winning the Premier League in Sir Alex Ferguson’s final season with Manchester United in 2013. Having retired in the summer, Tom has taken his first steps into management, taking charge of Watford’s U18 team.

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Timestamps:

(0:00) Intro
(01:18) Early Life and Career Origins
(03:40) Rise in Football
(10:10) Life at Manchester United
(18:46) Insights on Modern Football
(30:47) Behind the Scenes
(37:53) Career Decisions & Investments
(51:46) Reflections and Coaching Ambitions
(57:43) Memories and Highlights
(1:03:22) Quick-Fire Round

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In today’s show, we discuss:

Life as a young footballer:
Growing up in the Manchester United academy and managing the pressures that come with elite performance and expectation at a young age.
Tom’s experience being away from home living in ‘digs’ with other families while he trained with the youth team.
The key attributes beyond outstanding talent that play a significant role in determining which young players make it to the first team.
Being in and around world class players and management, and how that lifts the levels of everyone at a club.
Motivations vs money: how to ensure you keep your focus and don’t get distracted by the outside noise that comes with being a professional.

Balancing performance, relationships, and expectations:
What it was like to earn the opportunity to play for Manchester United and win the Premier League with Sir Alex.
How Sir Alex shaped the teams he managed and had the ability to continually achieve unprecedented results and drive standards.
The learnings that you pick up when developing as a player stay with you and shape the way you approach dressing rooms and in Tom’s case, management.
What goes into getting transfers done? The process a player and their representatives go through to get a move and that factors at play in influencing decisions.
How honest conversations with Van Gaal and Koeman ensured Tom knew when the right time to move had come.
Playing for England: what does it mean to players who get called up and how does the team gel when together?

Beyond the pitch:
The importance of having a great agent: how an influential team and stable support network is crucial to your off-field development.
Managing your finances and preparing for a future beyond the game.
Preparing for management and utilising the experiences learnt as a player to develop emerging talent.
Tom’s love for the game and how important it is to be in a place where you feel confident in your ability to deliver results.

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#TomCleverley #watford #manchesterunited #BusinessofSport #charliestebbings #harrystebbings

No V or V I would go no V if V can tell me it’s black or white still so many gray areas his first goal for Manchester United how old were you when you went into the academy so I was playing for Bradford which is where I’m from and got

Scouted at 12 The Academy football is so different to Men’s Football he learned the dark Hearts pretty quick so what are the dark Hearts clever fouls time wasting you would introduce when someone’s about 17 18 at the end of the day you’ve got 11 players trying to stop

You win and they’re going to be doing it on Sir Alex what would you take place from Roy under him his biggest word to the young players was concentration top level on the pitch if you lose focus for one minute these players will punish you being an upand cominging football coach

It’s like starting a business there’s similarities in the workload commitment sacrifice you have to put in it’s difficult to switch off if you can play one game again in your career what would it be uh probably the Tom I am so excited for this thank you

So much for joining us today thanks it’s uh yeah it’s good to be here I went a hand over to the May man I think at the start you’ve had an amazing career both playing and now into coaching so it’d be great to get a little understanding and Top Line of

What that’s been like and where that’s LED you to at the moment yeah it’s funny really because obviously as a Young Apprentice uh at Manchester United there’s a lot of similarities of what I’m going through now as a young coach trying to work my way up the ladder

Again so it started uh at man United’s Academy which was unbelievable Foundation to start from you see so many players come out of that Academy in half Premier League careers how old were you when you went into the academy so I was playing for Bradford which is where I’m

From and got scouted at 12 so yeah from 12 to 16 17 you’re doing three four trips an hour trips back and forth after school which was intense you sort of lose a lot of your childhood and then yeah you go sort of full-time and Liv in

Digs if you know the term digs right so that’s where an apprentice at a football club will live with a host family so you sort of get adopted for two years yeah uh but that’s fun because all the players live on the same street okay so

On my street we had like big players like Gerard p and and Danny Simpson and Johnny Evans all within like a square mile of each other so all in digs all in digs all with host families yeah and you the host families they they obviously

Apply to the club yeah in an area of Manchester called s they apply to the club and and these people do it for decades uh host just host that bunch of players I’m s I’m fascinated do they have jobs so you like you their job in terms of like nurturing and maintaining

You as the asset no not really they just yeah hosters feed us they yeah they get paid for it from the club and and yeah and there’s a minibus that literally goes it’s like three or four streets picks all the The Lads up who C Drive takes them to training and that’s digs

How did your family feel about that they yes it’s it’s a great learning experience the first time you leave home yeah you’re surrounded by all your mates and colleagues so yeah it is I don’t think many people say that they they don’t like digs it is it’s it’s fun can

I ask you a weird question in those early days when you’re kind of maturing through the 12 to 17 18 period we’ve had you guests on the show before say just how few people actually make it from that stage through to the top team and the first team did you think well I’m

Different I’m going to be the one that makes it through and does everyone or are you guys aware sitting in the coach on the way [ __ ] we might not make it to the first team yeah I think what’s interesting is every young player is on different trajectories so you might have

Someone who’s physically uh developed who starts there but plateaus and you might have someone who’s really small at 12 and that was more my path so I didn’t really Excel till 17 really so 12 to 16 was a struggle cuz physically I was just far so far behind that was August

Birthday which is the youngest in in a football in school year yeah my path was I was sort of Treading Water up till 17 and then I started to flourish as I got physically bigger you must have had enough though in that kind of just Talent perspective to to make it through

Because I’d imagine that man united Academy when you’re looking at academies in the country is about as competitive as it gets yeah I I think they could say I was an intelligent player I had a fantastic attitude those two things sort of they they had the patience with me to um

Yeah to wait until I did have my growth spur and then develop into a player who could handle it physically as well would you have a fantastic attitude at that age what does that mean in comparison to those that maybe you’re looking at and don’t wanting to listen wanting to take

In every learning opportunity possible always on time doing jobs off the pitch like even now myself coaching under 18’s team you see the same people collecting all the equipment in at the end you see the same people are always on time you see the same people who make eye contact

When you’re speak in that’s a big one for me that was me as as a kid I was I was top of the class at doing all those things off the pitch did that come from home was that the upbringing yeah I think uh yeah grew up with with my mom

In Bradford she’s quite quite strict parent um but yeah workingclass town city and yeah I don’t know where it actually comes from but having a great ground in at man United’s Academy like strict disciplined and yeah I think all those things combined into the work ethic that I had throughout my

Career you mentioned Danny Simpson you mentioned Johnny Evans jpk could you tell the people around you who were going to be the successful ones that broke through when you look back with the benefit of hindsight could you tell the ones that would break through and those that wouldn’t yeah it doesn’t

Always work like that to be honest in my age group the best two players were guys called Fabian Brandy Sam Houston and they had sort of jobs in football careers in football but not not top careers and then sort of the late developers it was me Danny drink water

Um went on to win Premier League titles but then on the other hand Danny Welbeck was all he was two years below me and he was always the best player in his age group all the way through and went on to win Premier Leagues sometimes it it goes

The way you’re saying where it plays with big big reputations from 13 14 do go on to be Superstars but sometimes it’s it’s the late developers so when did you get your first contract and how much did you get paid with your first contract yes so first contract is um was

Done with the boss so no AG he had no agents he told you this is how much you’re going to get paid and that’s the the standard template for a first year Pro and I think that was about 600 Quid a week you’re still living in digs I

Take it yeah still living in digs you can’t afford to live anywhere no no and that’s what I thought was great at United you had no it was very much everyone was on equal money so there was no sort of people getting big time or or feet off the ground and the manager

Oversaw everything he was when the term you get the term head coach now and the term manager and he genuinely was a man he managed the whole football club top to bottom and that was until 18 that kind of contract and then after that would they start negotiating with the

Players they really wanted to yeah I mean and then I went on loan and you and you do well and then you sort of when you can see a pass to the first team that’s when the contracts change a little bit get a little bit more sexy

And and and sort of the variations obviously if you sign a young player like Paul Pogba he’s he’s going to be on more than maybe a local lad from altringham who’s not as got as big reputation those altringham Lads are cheaper than poers aren’t they sorry

What does it feel like to be sent out on loan I always feel like how does it feel is it okay do you feel like oh [ __ ] yeah I think at a a massive club like United where they’re going to be recruiting World Superstars two three of them a

Year it’s very difficult for you’ve got to be sort of Danny Welbeck young talent to to to not have to do that and even he went ended up going to Preston and Sunderland so it is literally like learning the ropes you’re not getting thrown at the deep end having to play in

Front of 75,000 a week you can go out to League one or a championship play in front of 10 20,000 and sort of gradually make your way up I mean you’ve got to be very very special talent to to not have to go out and Lear at one of these big

Clubs where the squads are 20 25 International Players it’s tough though cuz you sent to some Far flung place that you haven’t been to before you’re 1920 you been living in Diggs for the last two years and so it’s like oh welcome to Preston or yeah yeah I but I

Loved it I mean I went to Watford great dressing room uh I was 19 20 started scoring like living just outside of London I absolutely loved it it’s like suppose it’s like going to UNI for a couple of years or you’ve probably seen as you know coming from Manu into teams

That you’re getting game time in other players are looking at you going or looking to you to perform week in week out as well you’re getting the starting slots that you’re not going to get at home and the experience you’re going to pick up from that yeah is probably

Detrimental to to how you then kind of take that on in man united yeah I mean because Academy football is so different to Men’s Football there’s you learn the dark arts pretty quick which you which you need to people think oh man city yeah fantastic football team but their

Players are not only the best footballers the most intelligent footballers but they’re the best at the dark hearts of the game so what are the dark Hearts clever fouls time wasting set pieces um winning Jew do you train dark arts like is that part of coaching

Session probably not at the age that I’m coaching now but we start to introduce it yeah it is a massive part of the game and and I mean this nicely is that good like tra officially training darks like time wasting we wouldn’t coach time wasting we would um game management G

Coach game management yeah so if I wouldn’t want someone taking a quick free kick if we were winning in the last 5 minutes um clever the fouls we we would introd you would introduce when someone’s about 17 18 this is part and parcel of it because at the end of the

Day you’ve got 11 players trying to stop you win and and they’re going to be doing it so it’s uh it’s Doggy Dog yeah I was interested um what it’s like when you were away and you say you loved it and and the kind of loan system really

Benefited you but how much emphasis was put on like the the social care from man united of the players that they had out were you regularly kept in contact with did you feel still part of the club yeah 100% I think it was about six weekly someone from the club would be in

Contact they’d get every match report even though if they weren’t speaking to me they’d know how it performed I think three of the years that I was out and Loan they got to the Champions League final I went to every Champions League final um so still felt massively part of

The football club even though and I always felt like this isn’t an exit strategy this is like an entry strategy into the first team and um yeah they made it very clear that that was the case what I was interested to ask was you know kind of when you were coming

Through and you had that structure in the two mid 2000 well mid to late 2000s where they were winning champions leagues where they were winning Premier League titles and you’re a young player in that environment did that subconsciously and or very consciously being in and around that environment change how you approached

And improve those behaviors that you mentioned earlier yeah I mean if you go you’re going into a dressing room full of people who have won seven eight nine Premier Leagues and they’ve still the same desire it’s just like wow I have to fall in line here and and that’s doesn’t

Look the case at at United now do you think it’s just United now or do you think it’s systematic of wi of football and a different type of leadership or kind of aura that we saw in 15 you know 15 or so years ago yeah society’s changed young players are now the most

Important people at biggest assets at football clubs uh they hold the power maybe before they’re mature enough to hold it yeah you’ve got to have a special figure like pep to be able to keep EV you see every new signing just Falls straight into place at city and

That that’s not a surprise with with a leader like that what does he do to make that possible every time I think having success is a large part if you want to be successful you’re going to buy into what that guy believes in because you trust him so much you trust that he’s

The key to success same as United Sir Alex people would have signed for United for less money than gone to Chelsea or or Arsenal for more so it’s not an ability it’s a mindset yeah mindset and and yeah players are hungry for success for for trophies and they

Would yeah they would sacrifice their egos for that it’s product of your environment isn’t it when when you go into that space and as you say you’ve got everyone pulling in that same direction everyone knowing exactly what their jobs are everyone buying in to that winning mentality you go in and if

You don’t you’re immediately standing out on your own whether some of these clubs and Manu have been massively challenged by it recently well a lot of top Chelsea significantly ch challenged by it Spurs where you bring in Players Big Money big expectation and it just doesn’t quite work out but then it

Doesn’t quite work out consistently a few times over and you’re looking at it going is that the player and the quality of the player or is that the system that they’re a part of I think it it comes under the the whole package so I think for that dressing room sort of uh

Hierarch I think the SE a group of six or seven senior plays is key the manager can trust them to run the dressing room so I think even though I said the young players are still the assets I think it’s they they still need to understand

That the old the older players are the examples they run the dressing room they make the rules and you can see that just from how teams play on a Saturday that yeah the their dressing rooms in line or their dressing rooms not in line what

Does it look like when it’s not in line body language um you can see players sort of the way they speak to each other on the pitch fighting right till the end not giving up you you just know the dressing rooms that have really got there yeah that are together that

There’s there’s a hierarchy that everyone respects and from my experience here I was so lucky going into a dressing room full of gig sculls they were like the silent leaders and then as well as Carrick and then you had Rio uh Patrice Evra Robin van persy just probably missed a couple Rooney

Obviously just top top players who all sort of made the young Lads fall in line how is it when I mean one thing when you’re coming up from an academy integrating in but when a player like a van persy comes in from another big team and integration into that dressing room

Is slightly different from a young player is that a kind of different method they have to go through or the players in that dressing room go through or is it also just down to the person’s ability to integrate themselves and be the right kind of character I think

That’s a little bit easier because you have the Instant Respect of how talented you are so as a young player you’ve probably got to earn your stripes play Maybe 50 games in the first team I think that was like Gary Neville’s marker once you played 50 in the first team you sort

Of established but a van pery comes straight in and has ultimate respect as a world- class player and he he proved that what was Sir Alex like towards the end of I guess his tenure at United and how did that kind of translate into you

Guys as as a team did you know that something was coming to kind of its conclusion and there was an extra hus to to put that kind of final shine on on his career or was it just a Relentless indifferent change to how we had always managed Relentless um and if we didn’t

Win the league that year I don’t know if it would have still gone but he was relentless the older players maybe have had the heads up but the young guys it came as complete surprise yeah I think it was on the golf course and news was

Coming through I think the boss is res retiring how did you feel yeah I was gutted um cuz he was he had the whole thing I think David Gil as well the chief exe retired the same year and the biggest two figures at the football club

I didn’t see they not I thought success at that club was the norm so I just thought a new manager will come in we’ll just keep churning out titles I was gutted because everyone loved and respected Sir Alex but I was excited for for a new uh chapter for the club and

Never did I think that day we’ll be sitting here 10 years later and the they’ve not won a premier league in that in that period of time and that just shows you how important of a figure he was can I ask if we go back to the

Player side I think you know you learn so much from the people you work alongside you mentioned you know your skills your gigs your carck your when you think about like lessons from working with them and developing like with them what are the biggest Leadership Lessons you have from them

And any specifically from each Relentless going back to that word never ever would they like success take their foot off the gas so it was wind Saturday rest Sunday straight back to work Monday like nothing happened I remember the boss we we’d beat Wigan or someone 4-0

We came in fuman he was fuman he said one of these years the title’s going to be decided on goal difference and that should have been seven or eight today that’s the year we lost it on goal difference and at Sunderland away the day we lost it to the famous Aguero goal

He he basically just said I told you I’ve been telling you all this time it’s going to come down to goal difference one year can I ask you when you’re playing alongside these people and you’re still really young was there ever a moment where respectfully you got a

Little bit big for your boots you know you’re playing with the best of the best under the best manager ever in you English football did you ever think like yeah I’m the [ __ ] yeah and that was where if I was to do it again you would

Do things differently so they go back to to agents and I’m still with my agent and um have a great relationship with him but as soon as you have a young player break into man United’s first team they automatically think right money from every angle so like websites

Commercial deals interviews if I was to do it again I would have just gone whoa just just whole Fire Let’s did you get pushed into that commercial World pretty fast yeah yeah to too fast and it wasn’t for me and that was from outside the club not not through your that was

Outside the club yeah why wasn’t it for you just I should have just FOC focused on football my type of game that that was more of a team player I was never going to be that poster boy so I should have just rained it in I think I rubbed

Few of the fans up the wrong way of of sort of few of the commercial like the website and stuff like that which which was a mistake if I if looking back now because as soon as you H bad form then that’s when it can turn they turn pretty

Quick on the game specifically do you regret doing is there one way you’re like oh that one I wouldn’t do again I mean I didn’t do any commercial deals that I I regret but I think I I set up a website and for what there was there was

No like monetization behind it it was yeah it was just a mistake and a a little bit of thinking oh yeah I can there’s going to be money coming in for all angles when young players should just if you’re a good footballer you you’ll earn enough money just just have

A bit of tunnel vision until you sort of get established more into your mid 20s are the young players sorry are the young players thinking about the money cuz it’s plasted all over the papers it’s plasted all over the news sites the young players kind of actually not as

Interested as the world is or actually do they care and do they think about it no listen I think you’ve got a massive ratio of players that would still take trophies over money I think the problems are when they start comparing them comparing oh he’s he’s at city and he’s

On more or when I go to the England squad I’m on this but and he they’re on that and I think it gets a bit competitive in that in that world so it’s not like they’re greedy for the money but there’s a bit of ego takes

Over and and I’m doing better than him so whys on more money and stuff like that but I still think we’ve got a healthy ratio of lads who would take success over money there is a media Obsession right with how much footballers get paid and and how they

Break that down when they actually look a weekly pay packet you mentioned there a bit of competition do you actually know what each other are on is it speculation throughout you know the media where you pick this kind of information up because I’d imagine it’s not something like a normal business

That would get communicated outside of no it’s yeah and you have some leagues in the world that have to document it but um no it’s completely rumor Lads even lads who do talk about it a little bit around the dressing room they’d probably say I’m on a figure that’s all

My bonuses included if we get promoted rather than just you basic salary I would always give less and then ask you to pay for lunch that’s that’s what the clever ones um but no it’s very rare that you it’s becomes open knowledge it’s it’s quite secret can I ask a really rude question

What was the most you got paid in a United salary H I can’t I can’t answer that but it would for someone who was winning in Premier League titles it was yeah you’d I think you’d be amazed how how little in comparison it was did you

Call your mom what to say what check out his contract uh no I never really told my family how much I was earning obviously my agent knew and probably told my parents but yeah even until the last few years at Watford I don’t think I ever

Said Mom I’m on this I just yeah so your relationship really it was really left down to the people around you they dealt with business you focus on football yeah yeah I learned that that was the best way I learned that there was no nothing outside of football that you could

Become rich overnight with that was probably the biggest lesson I’ve learned so whether that’s yeah investing or property or nothing comes overnight quickly um what did the team around you look like who did you have in your kind of immediate Entourage yes so that was Mom Dad don’t have brothers and sisters

So Mom Dad agent sort of support network at football you’d have every Club has a player leers on the foreign players need those the most so the way they come to a new country they’ve got someone who sorts their council tax road tax car insurance everything so i’ include those

In your support network but mine was Mom Dad agent yeah quite small and everything that they they kind of brought to you do you have like a process where some things would go through your parents rather than it coming to you and the agent actually has a really good relationship with the

Families as well because I’d imagine it is almost like an it’s like a third parent in 100% And as a as a young guy you probably had things that you didn’t want to tell your parents and You’ tell your agent first but yeah I was I was quite

An independent person I I wanted to know everything I was I wanted to be in control of everything which isin’t always the best way but what’s the most important thing that your agent’s done for you just honesty he’s been honest with me every time he’s said you’re

Going to learn that I’m going to wearn that is that unusual yeah probably yeah probably um you get listen you get some good agents you get some not so good agents your agent is the most important to you when you need a move so the L the class of 92

Lads schools never never never move clubs never need an agent it becomes more important when you contracts running out and and you sort a moves on the horizon you you don’t want to be having to make all those calls what’s the best move for me what’s the best

Deal structure so that’s when they become important and yeah the two moves to to Everton and then to Watford he was massively important in before we discuss the moves we mentioned like lessons on relentlessness from kind of the people around you in the dressing room on Sir Alex what were the takeaways from

Working under him discipline Focus was his his biggest word to the the young players was concentration and that’s when I go back to making eye contact listening to meetings you that’s that’s a big learning platform for a footballer who’s in the video meetings what are the video yeah so they

Can be individual where I will bring I’ll I actually clip the games myself uh I’ll bring an individual in show him his clips from Saturday’s game and basically go through um positives negatives where we can improve I may show a stri clips of Harland or Harry Kane but more

Commonly is is the team meeting so I will show on a Thursday I’ll show Saturday’s opposition their strengths weaknesses set pieces for me it’s a way of getting as much learning as a a physical training session without physically draining people I really really value uh the meetings so I need

You to focus and that was one of so Alex’s massive uh things was at the top level on the pitch if you lose focus for one minute these players will will punish you he wanted you like tunnel vision focused especially young players he constantly reminded for for 95 minutes

And in meetings and so soorry you have individual ones and then you have Team ones as well where you get together as a team and watch opposition ahead of a match yeah uh and then on a Monday I’ll do a team analysis of of the game um so

I think the individual ones are very powerful but there’s me my assistant and 27 uh Lads at the minute so to do that for everyone is very difficult so you sort of targeting people where you can see massive areas for improvement uh or massive standout things from the the

Weekend’s game but how was sis critical in that situation when you know you’re doing it in front of a group was it and and have you kind of taken his style on as someone that approached I guess the the senior players and the young players together yeah yeah I mean he he he

Wouldn’t criticize hardly ever in front of the group maybe at half timee when it was more emotional and and he wanted a fast response in the second half but in the in the team meetings I can’t remember him digging people out too much it’d be more maybe tactical

Disagreements or and stuff like that uh but you to all know publicly hardly ever to the media criticized these players which was which was a big well it’s interesting isn’t it because there’s been just you have a few thing recently where managers do come out it’s one of

The things that creates the most discussion in the media of is it the right thing to do does it actually bring the best out of the players do you get the results that you need it’s much better when the owners come in halfway that’s a winning strategy had a few

Those but yeah I think you know that that kind of the debate that it generates around that and I don’t by the sounds of it there’s probably I don’t know if you’d feel like there are some players maybe you need to do that with and others that

That you wouldn’t do it with but is it as simple as just say actually keep everything private and put a face on when you’re you’re kind of facing something outside of the dressing room yeah it’s difficult for the managers cuz the the public want honesty no one wants

To get beat 2 3 n and the man come out out and the manager says oh I saw all the positives in the game the public wer honesty and I think as a player I would not have minded my manager criticizing the team I think if you can’t come out

And criticize individuals then it’s a bit more right the per the player’s going to take that personally and you’ve probably got a problem on your hands as we see playing out with the Sano tenh thing it’s not it’s not good for the player it’s not good for the manager

It’s not good for the club if you were player in that dressing room now and a situation like that happens is there like a conflict in in how you kind of interact I guess with let’s say ten hog and then Sancho because Sancho’s your mate ten Hog’s your boss you probably

Understand maybe a bit of both sides how do how do you approach that is I I feel like I’m a very fair person and it’d be rare that a manager would go first offense come down as hard as tenh har has this has probably been two three

Four times he’s I don’t know the details he’s either been late he’s he’s not trying in training and there what more can a manager do the managers have to nip problems in the bud like that as I’m sure you’ll see in business I think that’s the best way of doing it one one

Chance then nip it in the bud and sort of what do we think happens from here there I think that’s the question everyone’s kind of asking I think if he does come out with an apology does it integrate him back in I think that’s supposedly what they’ve said is what’s

Needed to to happen but then there’s a sincerity piece in there does he really feels sorry he was so vant in his denial that you know there that he hadn’t done what he was being accused of that you almost imp pass it is it’s a difficult

Situation and that that’s why I said nip nip it in the bud you try and nip things in the bud before it gets to this because this is it’s messy situation now because you ultimately it might not be the manager’s decision if he goes because you’ve got an owner who’s paid

75 million pounds for a young player and if if the manager wants to just cut his losses and that’s not necessarily his decision so yeah not envious of the situation basically not not at all no and that’s why I go back to I don’t think 10 years 15 years ago when you had

That six seven sort of Godfathers of the dressing room it just doesn’t happen can I ask speaking of that criticizing by manager thing is criticizing by public now and that the class of 92 didn’t have Twitter when they came off the field that said oh skills was a shocker today

Does the social media realtime feedback get in the mindset of you when you were playing and and players certainly in my early 20s yeah um it could it would literally take just one comment I was on a course yesterday with G souit and he said something um don’t take criticism

From someone you won’t take advice from so sort of listen to people who you need to listen to and and and sort of cut out all the other noise but in the my early 20s when social media was really um snowballing I found that difficult and

It was sort of I was a man united player living in Manchester in the goish bow and anybody performances i’ just want to stay indoors and found it difficult to deal with with the the social media sort of stuff it’s easy isn’t it people say

Or just don’t read it or don’t follow it but I guess that is much easier said than done it’s so hard do you see there’s this masochism of like I seek out the [ __ ] comments about me and I find them I’m like oh yeah [ __ ] Yeah you

Sort of do gravitate towards it it’s one of those weird things but yeah like you said a big club like that you you can’t hide from it and you’ve got to I think one prepares as well as you can to give you that confidence that you are going

To perform and two yeah you’ve got to build up a real resilience quick what’s policy of phones and dressing rooms it’s something I’ve found quite interesting watching a few of these documentaries where you get in after a game and players seem literally to kind of the

Phone is on is that almost to go on see what the public reaction is to how they play were you in dressing rooms where there would be a band for you know I I have been I’ve been in dressing rooms it’s it’s difficult to place that one because there are some players who

Before 10 minutes before we go out to warm up would like to sit watching their go I think Xiao Pedro was one of them at Brighton he he’d like to watch his goals watch his Clips on that was on his phone so it’s a hard to place so for me I

Don’t think it works I think you just have yeah sort of an open policy that when when it’s work time it’s work time uh after the game Lads do they like to see go on socials or ring their wives or or whatever straight away I was more of

Uh I like to embrace the sort of feeling of the dressing room if we’ve won or even if we’ve lost sort of reflect on on the performance and what was the best post and then worst post match dressing room worst was after Aguero scored we literally thought we’d we went from

Winning a league to not winning a league in two minutes and yeah that was like the soul fell out of the dressing room probably beating Arsenal 82 was was a good one reaching FA Cup Final with Villa was was a good one uh obviously winning the league that was against

Villa then night V pers SC the volley yeah the only thing that would have probably been my best but I didn’t get I was on the bench and I didn’t get on and takes the Shine off it a little bit what are the like coach rides back like are

They very quiet are they quite noisy and vibrant what are they like yeah I mean I’ve never gone of the days of sort of you get the bear on and and stuff like that but there’s at United it was a a game called Socom which which was an

Army game it was brilliant for te- morale BR I mean brilliant it was like Call of Duty were in teams of six seven that’d be six at the back working as a like an army unit against the other six and uh we still talk about it to this

Day some teams play Mario Kart um so there’s cards there’s all stuff like that going I do enjoy the coach Journeys to be fair Uno seems to be what I always Uno big at the minute is there is there like eating on the coach I ched to

Flamini the other day and he was like you know people had a wide variance of what they consumed on the coach some healthy some not so healthy yeah well the teams are lucky now I mean even championship teams travel on the coach with their chef with

A kitchen on board so it’s it’s massive part of sort of recovery performance is the nutritional side and yeah teams are spoiled now s getting Niche but car or sorry coach plane train like would was it normally a plane when you could get away with it if if you could reduce that

Time and then trained kind of the rest of it yeah yeah it would be yeah it would be playing train coach I remember at Everton we had a game 530 at Newcastle boxing day and we were we traveled up on the day from Liverpool to Newcastle playing just cuz he the

Manager didn’t want to tr travel Christmas day so I think that’s the finest I’ve I’ve ever cut 15 minutes yeah yeah yeah but it was yeah you couldn’t risk going on the day because you get massive fines if you’re late and stuff like that so yeah it was about a

20 minute flight on boxing day oh right so when you have a Saturday game you go the day before Oh whole time yeah and most clubs now will stay in a hotel Friday night for home games to make sure everyone’s sleeping right eating right do a team meeting in the hotel uh so

Yeah the top club most of the top clubs will stay in hotels even for home games now do you sleep well in like hotels I thought I’ve got four kids so it’s a blessing for me I love it I I’d imagine you’re not alone as well quite it is it

It splits dressing rooms the the sort of single Lads with no no kids want to stay at home in their own environment sort of the lads with lots of kids where even cooking healthy food is sort of a chore they they’d rather be in the hotel with

The feet up sort of having a little football quiz or watching the Friday night game I used to love it on the like pre-match nutrition what did that look like I was simple I was like beans eggs on toast yeah people are you get superstitious players I wasn’t really

One of them uh what did they have yeah it be just be the same I think Dan Goslin at Watford was one or you get some lads who you see have the same thing like chopped up avocado and think things the same prematch I can’t

Remember any by name but I was very much how if I’m not hungry I’m not going to eat too much and what a Chris vegan Bolognese or something oh yeah I would be one of those guys if we had a lunchtime kickoff I could have P her at

9 o’clock in the morning I could do that can we talk about the transfer process and what it’s like when you move particularly with Everton because you you’ve gone through yes loan moves away from Manu but this is now a permanent move away from the club that

You’ve been at since you were 12 how did that come about when was that decision made in your head that it was the right time to to actually go and develop elsewhere yeah first of all it is kind of strange saying from 12 to 25 or whatever it was I was a Manchester

United player even if I was on loan you still contracted to Manchester United so that was a little bit strange the Everton move sort of years in the making I went on loan to Wigan played under Roberto Martinez uh kept in contact with him then uh vanal came into United and

Was honest with me saying there’s not going to be much playing time for you and for me as a player you I respect that you you don’t want to be strong along or just I’m keep kept around to make the odd 10 minutes here and there he was straight looked at me straight

Saying we’re Sig in blind and schneiderlin you can leave how is that yeah it’s it’s ruthless but I liked it like that’s what yeah it’s honest and I think that what I’ll take into hopefully a management career in the future is just have those difficult conversations

As soon as possible so yeah and then I started speaking to to uh Roberto again that move didn’t actually materialize that year I went to Villa on loan got to the end of my contract and then signed for Everton on a free transfer things didn’t really work out how I’d like to

At Everton um didn’t hit Top form I remember at the time I got burgled and mentally I wasn’t in a great space um and I just never found top form again until I came back to Watford mentally struggled just because of the change in situation or something like being you

Know burgled which yeah I don’t think it was that but I think just after I sort of did three years at United uh the last year at United was a bit of a car crash and then I and for my mind I needed why the car crash well we we went from

Winning the league to sth under Moyes David Moy fantastic manager and stood the test of time but didn’t work it was massively stressful year if the players can I ask how did the club change with s Alex versus without you just even if you drop 10% or you lose that 10% of focus

Or discipline that can that can be the difference between 1520 points but what I will say is for David M incredibly tough set of fixtures to start off with I think we went Swansea away and then uh I think it was Spurs Liverpool Chelsea something like that and as soon as that

You sort of lose confidence in it in a couple of bad results that just like got out of hand the media was started momentum like that’s hard to turn around did the team stay with him or was everyone kind of going oh [ __ ] we miss her Alex they weren fully bought into it

Yeah um that’s that’s difficult when players have known the same thing for some of them for 10 15 years is it hard also when the players are definitely bigger than the manager now like before no matter who you are in that team Sir Alex is your boss when Moy comes in like

If you’re your third NS or your gigs or your skers of the world no I’m a class of 92 mate like I mean these players were still massively professional sure but you see what I mean the weight changes yeah yeah there was a a dynamic change and and you see that at other

Clubs where manager players have been there longer for than managers and maybe a manager that’s not comes in with not so big of reputation it’s it’s difficult to earn that respect you saw that then did you when you kind of moved as well going into an Everton that had been

Under Moyes for over 10 years did was there a similar kind of feeling of transition there the same yeah when when a fan base have got such love for the the outgoing manager it’s it’s a difficult gig for for the the new manager and Martinez did a fantastic job

Should have gotten Champions League the year before I think the the points highest points tell without getting Champions League football and then I what I needed at that time was to go into a successful dressing room and have a successful year just to have the like a weight lifted off my shoulders after

The the terrible year before and and that didn’t happen at Everton we were bottom half which was for the squad we had not good enough the fans were were demanding um which I think Everton fans have right up there with United as as what they expect off their team which

Has its positives and negatives I think it can drive you over the line now and again but sometimes it can sort of we wear the team down uh and that year it weighed us down um and and yeah it was a difficult couple of years for me never

Really hit Top form was that then being kind of victims of your own success and the extent where you’re competing for Champions League you were outperforming what the expectation was but then that redefines expectation because the fans now want you to make that Champions League slot exactly that yeah and you

See that now with Newcastle and Brighton uh which is interesting and then again yeah Martinez uh got sacked kumman came in The Following Season played six months under Kuman and had that on his chat again it must be a Dutch thing what did you do in Holland Tom

Yeah yeah um but yeah he’s he said you can leave on loan I think I think it was schneid schneiderlin again came in he followed me around taking my spot um anyway where do I have to go to get get away at the time I was speaking with

Rafa at Newcastle Brendan Rogers at Celtic and um Watford is the comms in those situations is it between you and manager yeah so with um Brendan and Rafa I was speaking to them personally on the phone um with Watford they went straight through agent and where i’ had such a

Successful year at Watford on loan I I thought yeah I love the surroundings uh love the people and uh let’s jump let’s jump at the chance what do you tell yourself mindt wise when it’s not going to plan like so go to the year at Everton when it’s like it’s not working

You got burgled performances aren’t there it’s difficult because sort of you try and Escape it a little bit so you sort of that’s why players will gamble cuz the players can’t really get into drinking because it’s it has his health sort of uh or performance uh negatives

So players you sort of look to escape whereas now i’ think prepare better I always feel like when I was prepared as well as I could I was like armored for any challenge whereas back then you sort of you try and run from it to be fair the the criticism the the speculation

The media pressure when did you feel most unprepared yeah probably in those two years I’ve there was times where I felt like I can’t pass it 10 yards um that worked for like lack of training or anything it was just I was mentally not prepared to be on that stage did you

Feel a pressure as well I guess because there was an expectation coming from a club like man united to then go and deliver a certain type of performance or contribution to a dressing room yeah and that that is one thing that I probably if I could do it again I’d changed like

You don’t you can’t please everyone and you don’t have to prove yourself to absolutely every to absolutely everyone you’re just not going to be some people’s cup of tea and that and yeah I did F feel the pressure of having to prove myself prove myself and it wasn’t

Until I I came back to Watford where I sort of started started to be myself again so you I mean that’s you had some Celtic great Club Newcastle great Club Watford great Club what are the things when you’re making a move that you take into account as a

Player uh that’s a great question Celtic absolutely fantastic Club um I know that my my best mate from school was a big Celtic fan uh which was rare growing up in Bradford I’ve known all their songs since like young like fantastic club uh same with Newcastle at the time I wanted

To stay in the Premier League that that played a massive part of it rather than go up to Scotland I’d be lying if location didn’t play A Part me and my wife had a place just outside of London um and I thought I can just move straight in there that

Was that was that had a big part to playing it and so basically your wife talk you which one you choose said London a big man to to sort of admit that you still happily married but yeah I mean location standard of football quality of of the squad um and and and

And money they’re the key factors in a transfer when you’re making moves and when you’re transferring you I think it’s so hard with football it’s like yeah you guys get paid a huge amount of money but obviously as everyone knows it’s a short lifespan unlike other

Careers where you you get more in the latter parts of your career are people are footballers conscious enough about the compressed timeline of earnings for them and how they’ll need to make it last as they should be for me it didn’t hit home till about 27

28 that’s when it sort of hit hit home we need to start thinking about sustainability now um and I do think the P Fe for have always been good to me and I mean Sor maybe but I think say at what at what money point is that is that like

10 million is that like enough to like yeah we got enough here that we need to protect them I don’t I don’t think there’s a figure on it I think how I worked it out was this is what I spend the month some people for some people it

Might be a lot less attractive than than others give you an example player I played with Craig kathcart he was man united product done unbelievably well with his like Investments and stuff like that and but Liv to a really like Liv to his means and and didn’t didn’t spend much

On extravagant things and he’s reaping the benefits of that now and we can do better who was on the flip side who was like hey check out my Bugatti he’s like dude you scored an own go on the [Laughter] um I don’t want to Chu I can’t think of

Any to be fair but I I made mistakes so I do think we can what mistake did you make oh you you pay sort of ridiculous insurance car insurance on cars that cars that you can afford but you’re paying Insurance that’s where I think we can help young players in this money and

In in this age is sort of tell you how you return on investment for doing £10,000 in sages or you in turn on potential investing in a startup company or something like that I think we don’t sort of map out young players Financial spending as well as we could or give

Them the advice or I think there the education or the trust I think also from you speaking to so many players so many people approached them and there’s like as you said there’s a lack of transparency we’ve brought in quite a few former guests into the deals that we

Do from 20 VC fund and everyone says like how how much is your fee and I’m like dude I’m putting in a million of my own money I’m not taking a fee and they kind of don’t get it and so I think there this lack of trust and lack of

Education yeah I’m with you but yeah I just think it’s something we could educate a little bit better would you do I mean now you have the chance to given you know your role today do you try and do that yeah I mean I’m always careful of any comebacks that could happen from

That sort of I I get that they’re young Lads and they’ve got parents and it’s I can I can sort of tell them my experiences what did and didn’t work it’s also like when you’re so young like just play well on the pitch guys yeah

Play on the pitch I get it they have to enjoy the themselves treat yourself to a a Prada top or a nice car or or whatever a couple of materialistic things but seek good sort of investment advice whatever that be so you were conscious of it at 27 you retired young at 33

Right yeah how can you tell us what did you do I’m so that’s so rude of me I’m what did you do when you were 27 then differently post being conscious like did you start investing buying property yeah uh sorry property sort of cut back on design of clothing modest cars

Obviously I was gaining more children so I had to had to be like school fees and and stuff like that gambling sort of casinos and stuff cut it out not nothing crazy just sensible uh and then yeah and then after when you see sort of the cash pot go increasing

Then you can start thinking about investing and I was always quite property sort of not diverse I was all in property and then later on in my career introduced to people like Matt who we both know and sort of diversify into startups and things like that how’s

That gone how are you kind of approaching that um in the context of of what you’re doing yeah yeah I I love it I mean I’m very much a rookie um but I love sort of reading up about the founders uh I like investing in companies that I’m sort of passionate

With or have you set aside an amount of money for investing yeah I’ve got a figure but I would sort of deviate from that if I really liked something or if if nothing came up that that I sort of floated my boat I I would just keep that

Partt of money but number one rule when you’re investing always invest the same amount yeah everyone’s like but I really like this one I promise you you don’t you don’t know I don’t know when it’s so early you are just always 50k or 25k or 100K whatever it is always the same

Amount yeah and also when your mate comes to like oh I got this mate of a mate don’t do that one I’ve seen that so many times unless he yeah unless he’s Elon do you as a group of athletes now kind of come together and have conversations around this this as well

Do you do you find like value in the collective and and the security that you can take forward we’ve seen a few funds or kind of collective ideas like SQL as you said with Matt come up where you get that kind of confidence in togetherness going into these um these deals it’s it’s

Become a more popular topic more amongst the 30 plus age group in dressing rooms uh I know Rio was one he was a big startup investor and he was he offered a lot of knowledge on on this space but it’s not it’s nowhere near as it common

As it would be in sort of American dressing rooms do you think that’s because of the education systems and structures around sport or football particularly in this country and the pressure that puts on you at a young age to not necessarily get a lot of the understandings and

Exposures to this where in the US you’re going you know through an education system right through to collegate then into professional sport where your broader interests are maybe kind of integrated into you more yeah or is that unfair no I would agree with that and I would say the success the high profile

Success stories they’ve had over there success yeah sort of like your Ashton cachers and you with the basketballs in early investors in Uber and Starbucks and and things like this I think that when you have such high-profile cases you sort of think I’ll invest in startups I’m an

Athlete I’ve got a lot of capital I’ll invest in startups but uh in this country it’s nowhere near us got as much publicity and and yeah it’s obviously not the the be all and end all but it’s something I wish I was introduced to earlier in my career can I ask you one

Which is like you know you mentioned before it’s okay for me but four kids first at 24 that’s a that’s a lot Tom if you could advise yourself and call yourself up the night before your first and give yourself some advice what would you say to yourself take time for

Yourself I’ve got four kids I’ve got a very busy job now now is it possible uh I probably get a couple of hours at the end of each day and to to have to myself but but to yourself or to your wife I you then have to also have a couple time

Yeah yeah there’s a lot of sacrifice at the minute you’ll know starting businesses being an upand cominging football coach it’s like starting a business how so I’m learning it every there’s always something to be thinking about managing staff or or it this similarities in the workload commitment

Sacrifice you have to put in and I’m at that stage now if I’ve got that spare two hours in an evening I’m worrying about this player or I’m worrying about that opposition or uh I’m thinking he’s not he needs a bit of this tomorrow and it’s difficult to switch off and and

Yeah if I was going back probably to this point now in 10 years time I’d say make make space for yourself get around the golf in a week or that’s why I wear the whoop to make sure I am recovering and I’m not about to burn out do you do

Fitness so how does your own Fitness routine like cuz when you’re a coach it’s it’s kind of very easy to forget yourself not great yeah um I retired through a bad injury so that has sort of hindered that stuff but I could be doing more to keep fit at the minute there

Just not enough hours in the day yeah can you tell us a bit I’m really interested about the kind of coaching role and the motivations around that and what I guess you’re now building towards within football because it looks like when you leave football maybe you’ve got

Well maybe now you got three if you want kind of investing business uh Media or coaching how did you come to the conclusion that coaching was where you wanted to be it’s the probably the area that I can be myself I like to help people I’m obsessed with football I’m

I’m passionate about winning and yeah those three things football coaching it would really Light My Fire so uh listen I don’t mind the media side of football I don’t enjoy it as much as being on the grass with 20 players and a bag of balls sorry about that

Yeah in investing I’m nowhere near educated enough to to to make money I’d rather sort of Matt and Alex look after my investments or people like yourself so yeah that is where my expertise lies is is in trying to develop football players what would you like for it to become do

You want to be a manager do yeah yeah I mean I think I’m at the exact right place where I need to be now learning in the academy at a club that I’ve I’ve got a massive do you feel like you’re growing as a coach 100% every day yeah

There there’s different challenges that are my first experiences on a daily basis now K how’s your style of coaching changed over time like I’m an investor for a living I look back and go oh I approach things very differently then and I’m very different now how’s your

Style of coaching changed uh well it’s only been three months but um you just you become more confident in yourself you have a bit more of an aura I’d like to think I’m quite calm and clear with my messages that changes a little bit on

A match day I I get sort of too involved in in the game and I’m in development phase of of the their careers now but he’s still sort of ingraining me a little bit of we have to win which i s is a good thing but I need to get out

More towards even if we’ve not won but I can see the plays I’ve learned in this game that that’s more of a success at at in under 18s football how much of the managers that you’ve worked under previously in your head when you’re on that training pitch and

The way you’ve trained before and how they’ve taken the sessions against you having your own kind of individual style yeah you you sort of nitpick things from each manager obviously Sir Alex my management uh Nigel pearon had a fantastic Aura Marco Silva tactically I could go on and and every coach I’ve had

Certainly since my late 20s I’ve probably got a bank of about 20 sessions from each that I thought wow those sessions are good I’ve handw wrote them and now I’ve digitally saved them so in case I lost lost that so yeah probably something they don’t know but I’ve been

Stealing things off all of them yeah and I guess as a player as well you know the ones that you didn’t enjoy and you know why you didn’t enjoy them so when you’re taking it into training and you want to get the best out of the players you know

How to integrate the right things yeah yeah 100% there is an element of what to do and what not to do and some coaches have have taught me that how do you map out the plan when you think about your development from here you know now 3

Months in is it like I need to do this for three years with you know this team and this stage of development and then I’ll do two more years here how do you project out the next five years in that kind of road to manager it’s it’s really

Difficult um there everyone tells you there’s not a right or wrong was with g Southgate yesterday he he retired as being a player at Middlesboro and the chair the owner offered him the first team manager’s job so he’s managing his teammates like overnight and for him that that obviously ended up working out

But he would probably say no I mean for me now the decision would be do you stay in the academy for a number of years to get an experience do you sort of do you try and progress at Watford do you go and were in a couple of years do you go

And work under first team manager with vast experience do you go alone these are all things I think you you’ve got to just work hard you need a little little bit of look we haven’t touched on England I just really want to touch on England what it was like being playing

For your country and yeah what that meant being called up let alone actually getting onto the pitch and how important that is for players two phone calls I can remember clear as day the first time I got called up to the squad under capella it’s not actually him that Rings you

The team secretary and then second one the morning uh Roy odson says you’ll be playing as number 10 for England tonight and that was like Wow ring mom ring dad um big moment did you get nervous yeah they’re the games I got the most nervous for England England games at Wembley

Nervous yeah just because you felt a responsibility to so much more than just exactly you’ve got a country not just a a club he’s a country and and yes some players just have that natural ability to be to to were the other Lads nervous or they didn’t at that time it was like

Ashley Cole John Terry Lampard Gerard Rooney was again I’ve walked into a monster dressing room and started fairly well in my career I think uh we beat Italy beat mova and I was sort of been touted as as as an answer to an AG in Midfield and then just went pretty South

With my form at United and uh um which which is understandable you’re competing with the best midfielders in the country win player was least like what you thought he would be you know when you before you meet someone you’re like oh I bet lampard’s very studious or I bet

Gerard’s very serious or whatever and then you meet them in they’re total Jokers or they’re totally opposite who was least like you thought they would be do you know what John Terry was sound yeah he he’s obviously had a big rival with United players but he was the one who

Like got me right involved introduced me to every staff member that I didn’t know told me where the dining room is uh John yeah JT was really really helped me settle in leadership yeah yeah going into that environment recognizing probably how you feel you played in the

Olympics as well didn’t you the GB 2012 yeah how was that yeah I saw this I I watched you play at Wembley yeah yeah that was we played the against UAE there I think yeah yeah um it was great again unique something that I don’t sort of

When people I talk about me achievements so I don’t go Premier League winner played for England Olympian it didn’t sort of crush your mind but oh I would do yeah yeah I mean it is you haven’t gone for the tattoo would have been nice to get a

Medal we lost in the quarterfinal on on penalties we got two days in Olympic Village which was fantastic experience you had sort of you Bol mixing with Ryan gigs Mi mixing with Kobe Bryant at the time like surreal um never happened anywhere else than the Olympic Village or maybe some

Awards armers were you and Kobe just hanging just shooting some hoops with my man but I remember like everyone sort of g g give giggsy the nod of world class respect Captain wasn’t he uh was he Captain yeah I can’t actually remember thank you he must have been but yeah

That that was that we were based outside of the Olympic Village which was disappointing but the the two days we spent in there as class it’s just a different experience isn’t it I guess that you know so much of your career particularly in football you can probably predict or you know what it’s

Like because it’s the same kind of situation but something like that when you get the opportunity to do it in England and for us it was sort of surreal in the fact that all right we saw all right it’s a big tournament but it’s it’s another game in our careers

Whereas these people you surrounded with have built for four years years for this one moment like what if they’re real on the day or it was it was strange to see in that aspect that this is their absolute Mount Everest did you see that with sorry jumping back uh players and

How they valued playing for the national team because I feel like sometimes and I don’t know if this is fair or not you have a much better idea but there is a kind of a movement to suggesting that players drop out of squads they’re not really that passionate now about

Necessarily playing and it’s a lot about the clubs does it have the same weight playing for England as it used to in your eyes yeah and I think that’s where southgate’s done a fantastic job I think now more than ever in the last 20 25 years Lads

Want a dying to get in that Squad dying to get on the pitch if they don’t get on the pitch they uh dying to help the team we are in an era where clubs pay players so much and if players are 5050 and stuff like that then then it they may be

Persuaded to to stay at home rest recover for for the next Club game that’s the world we live in I I always when I was younger I always thought you you get injured you’re like oh great get like 3 months in my feet up getting paid

Full bu this is awesome and now like it’s like Absolut hell for you guys yeah I mean it is you you’re missing so much uh lose out on so much ground with injuries I know that more than anyone and loneliness and not being with the team and exactly it’s it’s it’s not a

Nice place going into a workplace every every day where you feel like the owner looking at you like you’re a waste of money the manager looking at you like you’re a waste of space sort of you get some managers who and you’re like m i get that from my marriage I don’t need

It at work exactly yeah so listen it’s not a nice place to be uh but going back to the thing I think no it’s it’s healthy right now that every player is very very proud to to get called up and represent good right we’re going to do a

Quick fire round so we give a short statement you give us your immediate thoughts how does that sound good yeah what’s the secret to a happy marriage good question he’s that one of the quick Fighters I don’t know he just always a good person yeah teamwork that’s a good answer can’t

Argue with that um if you could change one thing in football now what would it be wow that is a good question it’s a complex answer I love I think V’s right for decision making I hate the fact that celebrating go s has has sort he’s took

An edge off totally Tak Edge that one bit of like Elation that fans and players live for you have to sort of do it with a half-hearted is this going to get checked it’s the same it’s fans as well isn’t it I mean you know you look at

Everyone in the game but then when we didn’t have it we were moaning that it was over the line and we should have V cuz it’s ridiculous it was obviously over the line it’s it’s hard yeah I’m so I’m not put if you to go on one side of

The fence would you rather no V or V I would go no V would you I think it’s still there still if V can tell me there’s it’s black or white there’s still so many gray areas I don’t think V knows what handball is what handball

Isn’t which part of the body is offside which is isn’t I I think it was something like 98 point something of decisions were made correctly or offside decisions were correct before V really yeah it’s it’s the we’ve changed a lot for the one point something % we’ll always do that right

Because those are the ones that get the press and when they cost someone a place in the Premier League I think it was always listen I’m not I’m not massive I’m not against V I think it is it’s classy it’s he don’t feel as hard done

By by decisions but has took that little bit of edge off the the emotion what manager would you love to play under that you didn’t play Under pep pep didn’t hold that one i’ I speak to Stones John Stones now and what’s he like like tell me more about him

Especially I’m a coach I speak to Danny Welbeck saying tell me more about the zby like what do they say about him uh yeah obviously tactic tactically is genius how much prep preparation he goes into how much detail how obsessed he is but listen I I get probably 1% of what

He’s really like and and the influence he has on that club you said like when we asked about you like Focus or commitment concentration and it’s it’s interesting seeing what the first things come to mind there are because you you know if you have intensity as one of

Those there have been situations where not harand scored a goal in the first half and you know done amazing he comes on and he’s literally berating him for something and that’s again in the public not in the dressing room people go is that too much other people go that’s

Just that’s the genius of the man I don’t know how you how one balances the two yeah I think my opinion on that is just don’t you don’t have to have an opinion on everything just Embrace that we’ve got the the the greatest manager in the world in the Premier League and

Yeah just Embrace him so have what does Danny W say about derer G Wells is a a private guy so I don’t want to give too much away but just just just tactical stuff um how clear he is he’s this bit football’s like a bit of game of chest

To to him and yeah welb just says there’s Lads really experienced players at Brighton that seeing a whole new way of playing football and and for me that’s just just amazing and and it’s bringing success if you could play one game again in your career what would it

Be probably the 82 against Arsenal yeah after that game is the the one time I’ve thought I’m living the dream who’s the best player you’ve ever played with who was like holy [ __ ] this is god-given Talent yeah is Sky I think every United player would say it I mean roone is

Right up there but sky was born with what he’s got you you just can’t develop that yeah it’s amazing isn’t it when you look at the generation of players that he played in and still Chris was exactly the same he said yeah he’s game intelligence what does he do now he’s a

P yeah very dead pan you know kind of to the point but I mean it was yeah it was amazing man he was he um 5 foot s came in didn’t say much to people train like world class genius every day put his gear on go home do the same again like

Didn’t have an incredible body like Cristiano or someone like that just absolute genius game intelligence and technique were the highest level much like to the team yeah spoke to gigsy and the older ones more but yeah I had the joy of playing against him in training every day and was jealous of

How how good he was I think I may know the answer to this one based on what you mentioned earlier but what would you say was the biggest disappointment uh in football for you yeah I mean that won that last day that we lost against City but even on that

Day I thought success for this club’s just never ending so it’s going to it’s going to happen I’ve got a terrible record in FA Cup finals I’ve lost lost 4 nil and 6 nil so they were pretty low Watford yeah but remember what you said about your team

Now it’s about development Tom oh yeah no not when you get to that level it is a it’s a winning uh yeah it’s a winning it’s a results business when you get to First Team level and they work with this did you notice a change in in that kind

Of approach to a game of that magnitude for clubs that aren’t used to being in those situations or was it a situation of just beaten by very good teams on yeah both both instances I thought um prepared prepared well enjoyed the day one uh Villa we actually stayed at

Wembley Wembley Hilton that was incredible so like you’d you’d see the fans walking down Wembley way from like early in the morning and I got a real Buzz for that game just beaten by ozel in his prime San Alexis in his prime Walcott um beaten by good good Arsenal

Team isn’t Tom I’ve absolutely loved it thank you so much for joining us it’s been such a joy thank you cheers guys really enjoyed it