SUBSTITUTIONS in shorter Grand Tours – Domestique Cycling Podcast

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To substitute or not to substitute, that’s the question in this Domestique Cycling Podcast episode! Movistar team manager Eusebio Unzue dropped some ideas about allowing substitutions during Grand Tours and he even wants to shorten them to 15 stages. Team managers as Patrick Lefevere (Soudal Quick-Step), Joxean Fernandez Matxin (UAE Team Emirates) and Brent Copeland (Team Jayco AlUla) already gave their opinion on this matter. Now it’s our turn to reflect on Unzue’s takes. Would you want to see substitutes or a shorter Tour de France?

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To substitute or not to substitute that’s the question in today’s domestic cycling podcast episode movie star team manager isio Uno dropped some ideas about allowing substitutions during grand Tours and now it’s our turn to reflect on his takes got the SP the sickness there’s the twins in my

Brain if um how are you mate I’m doing fine it’s a busy period it’s the buildup to what’s the big start of the cycling season um but I’m ready for it it’s been a while since you joined the podcast I think it was two down under preview the

Last time you were here but now Uno dropped some ideas and you’re back in the game well yeah it’s a it’s a Hot Topic it was a Hot Topic the last few days and it’s an interesting thing to talk about and to debate well before we discuss the substitution topic I should maybe

Rephrase what unu said so here we go he said why not allow substitutes when a rider is forced to abandon a ground tour during the first week all teams prepare 10 to 12 riders for a ground tour so you still got two or three of them at home

After the start and then he added of course you can’t change for technical or tactical reasons but in football substitutions weren’t allowed for a long time either why don’t we give it a trial let’s take it let’s take the step and see if we like it A change is needed

If what what were you thinking when you read that well the or original article uh was released on liip um but if I remember correctly you were the guy who posted it on our account and I saw it there and I thought wait let me read that again it

Was weird to see um that idea because I don’t think it’s something that belongs in cycling to have a sub substitution system it’s yeah cycling has to change is something he mentioned at the end of his interview as well but that’s not the change that cycling needs it’s

It’s a recipe for the disaster because how are you going to yeah monitor everything and it can be used in a Strate strategy way or in a tactical way but how are you going to monitor that it’s so difficult to yeah to even do it um practical so only that’s one of the

Biggest reasons that it’s impossible to do plus it’s yeah it’s against tradition of cycling it’s you just yeah erase cycling history and yeah a part of a grand tour is surviving three weeks um if you crash if you have bad luck it’s part of the game of course it’s we always hear the

Heroic stories about yeah a rider is riding stages with a broken a finger or something that’s that yeah that’s something that can’t happen um in my opinion because it’s it remains a right is held but it’s part of the sport and to get a substitution in no but don’t you think

Fans are making crashes too romantic are making Heroes of riders who finish stages with broken kneecaps with collar bones um we publish pictures of riders with um yeah their hands are totally ripped off after Pari Ru for instance don’t you think that needs to change well you you have two um examples here

The the broken kneecap thing surely is something that we can’t see as something heroic because it all those guys in the pet and all those cyclists are human beings have a family have children and it’s like us we watch cycling when we were were kids six seven years old and

Then you hear the stories about Rider a was finished his stage with a broken kneecap that’s not something that should be seen as her heroic because children will say oh it’s not that severe he can write two three stages um further but the children or other people don’t realize that it can

Have an influence on the the rest of their life um but then on the other side you have the yeah the wounded hands in par rubbe that’s something that’s part of of rubbe you you can have all the the best luck that you have in the race and you

Can win it but still the hands can be completely wounded so that are two different things you already mentioned the technical tactical reasons um unu had something to say about that uh as part of his substitution plan so he said when a crashes why not let him finish

The stage in an ambulance instead of on the bike in the evening he could get himself checked and maybe start again in the next stage but now riders need to ride their bikes with too much pain if they want to continue the next day we need to protect the rider’s health and I

Think he’s completely right on this one even though if you don’t support substitutions this is a good point so the point is that a rider can finish Within in the ambulance and if he’s cleared medically he can still start the stage after exactly that that’s difficulty this difficult as well because remember it’s

Um stage 16 in the T France up du um and there is a crash for example gr shner he’s a main domestic for Pacha in race he crashes and he has yeah he’s bruised yeah you can use it tactically tactically and say okay I’m going to do

As it’s a little bit worse than it actually is save me the Ascend of the op and be ready to and fresh for the stage after so even that is something that’s difficult to inter interpretate at the moment like who’s going to do it is the team doctor no because because

The team doctor has team interest is it the French doctor then I saw comments saying yeah the French Rider are going to get a French Riders are going to be benefited um for example in the tour so it’s all very difficult to to know when you take the right decision and yeah

There will be a lot of miscommunication and problems with such idees there’s a huge Gray Zone um in that idea that’s for sure but the fact that he says we need to protect the Riders Health that’s totally right in my opinion we all remember Riders um crashing in the first days and then

Continuing for two weeks with pain on their shoulder with with yeah whatever they they got broken that’s not human don’t understand me wrong I’m I completely agree with that fact and but it’s yeah like in football there is the in soccer football there is the concussion protocol Etc and that’s

Something that happens in cycling as well but those checks are so vague and have to be decided so quick for the the race doctor at that time that you can’t examine the rider good enough so we have seen Riders back on their bike 2ks later they yeah they go left to right because

They have a bit of problems um and it’s it’s so diff like it’s yeah they are human beings and we have to care about their safety but it’s yeah it’s a it’s a sport that matters about time so every minutes two minutes three minutes that you lose while being medically checked you have

To chase back at one time so people Riders who have the adrenaline in them even after they after they crash they just want to get on that bike as fast as possible and I think that regulation need to be more strict about a doctor give him the time he needs to examine

The crash Rider but then allow that Rider maybe to get in the draft or something um of a car to get in the paltin were you surprised by the fact the ID came from unu uh yeah because Uno isn’t the the guy who comes a lot in the media with um yeah groundbreaking

Things um I remember him mainly of the movie star Netflix series but it’s it’s weird but then I I dove into I dived into it and then I saw like the last couple of years the amount of bad luck movie star had in the first two or three stages it’s insane

So in that aspect it’s quite I’ve got it written down here um they lost three times a rider um in the first stage of the tour the last seven years so to the France 2023 stage one movie star loses enic m in a crash to the France 2021

Stage one movie star loses Mark Soler through the France 2017 stage one movie star loses Alejandro valde in the opening time trial so yeah now you can get why he says it you know yeah we have to know it’s cycling is changing within the next five years

There we will have a major change within cycling and now all the managers know if they bring things in the media bring IDs people are listening to it because they know that one cycling project we don’t know a lot of of of it but still that are all things

That they know and if they just pump some information in the media some IDs they all have an interest in something like movie star knows we have bad luck in the first stages let’s try that substitution thing important thing to know um Uno talks about um changes in

The first week and then the the manager from UAE talks about substitution in the last week so there you see a different yeah conflict of interest between the two you already mentioned it um there were a lot of comments coming from Team managers on Uno’s idea as well Marin the

Manager of uat memor he said this who’s going to evaluate if the crash is severe enough and what about fatigue after two weeks fatigue is very similar to being sick in a ground tour I like a more simple approach every team has the right to make one substitution in the last

Week so there there you see the the difference between and that’s only two teams it’s movie star and UAE first week last week its movie star aspect is yeah the bad luck they had they tried to get a substitute in and UAE knows let’s have a a fresh Workhorse in the last week

Alongside their leader but first part of yeah the first part of his quotes mentioning um fatig looks very similar to being ill sick in the last week that’s a very good point yeah that’s what Tom Bolan said uh once and couple of years ago as well he said after two weeks yeah

You you have the feeling you have to vomit every morning every evening and yeah that’s almost the same as being sick but both UAE and movie star agree on the fact that there should be substitutions and also Bren Copeland the manager of Team jao alula he quote

Tweeted or tweet and he said 100% agreed even though this goes against tradition which is always a difficult concept to agree on cycling is one of the few team sports that don’t allow substitutes for injuries it would make sense and if you wanted to take one step further you

Could even contribute to evolving race tactics the only thing is the UCI would have to govern the substitution situation closely so no teams take advantage of it but here we go with UCI again yeah and it’s impossible to take to keep control and keep track of everything

That happens like and like you you want to substitute thing in Grand tools and then what about yeah a AO um do they want a substitute system in there as well uh for me it’s impossible to arrange um this is basically only about ground tours yeah yeah I know but still

If you allow it in grand Tours then maybe another team manager will say what about a do I lost I lost the leader first day yeah but that that would that would be yeah but it’s yeah so we’ve got we’ve got the opinions of three managers now they basically agree on bringing

Substitutions um Copeland said that yeah change is going in is going against tradition and that’s also what unu said he said that a lot of teams are worried about the future of cycling they want to look for Solutions in order to make the sport more competitive but cycling is

Too conservative and he also said the rules may be a little softer and that is where Patrick Le manager of suda quickstep comes into play yeah the legend he said by bringing substitutions you erase all the history of gr horse the challenge is to keep on going for

Three weeks it has to remain human but we aren’t G to create softies right classic I know Patrick Patrick Le gets a lot of criticism but in this case he’s right the first part is you erase cycling history uh second part is part of a grand tour is surviving two three

Weeks um that’s what Young cyclists dream for to write a grand tour and to finish the three weeks to arrive in Paris to arrive in Madrid to to get to that Finish Line in 21 stages and then the the classic Patrick sentence we aren’t going to create softies yeah it’s it’s typical Patrick

Le fav um but he’s uh 100% right um with if he says you erase all the history of grand Tours but 100 years ago the Riders were doing 400 kilm a stage um they they had to repair their their bikes themselves they had to look for food them

Themselves yeah these days that’s gone as well but you have a difference between a a onewe stage racer um the king in one week one week stage races is pretty much Rish for me and then you have a three- we stage race a cran tour if

You yeah if you get substitutes in then what are you going to do for example um a Neo a neopro gets into the team in the last week he will he is possibly he wins two or three stages because he has fresher legs than the opposition in my opinion bringing a

Substitute in in the last week is a dumb idea why um most of the time you got a lot of breakaway stages in the the last week the Breakaway fights at the start are influenced by fatigue um Riders who are less fatigue than others um can make it

Easier into breakaways but if you bring a fresh legs in in that fight yeah come on that that’s you don’t even have to train to get in that Breakaway then so last last week substitution seems that that seems very weird in my eyes to be honest but that wasn’t the only ID unu

Had he also said this why not limit ground tours to 15 days the best Riders might ride both Jiro tour and welta it would give them enough time to recover from a ground tour and be competitive in all three ground tours it would create a spectacle in which the best Riders

Battle each other so two things here ground tours of 15 days and the fact that t poacher and yonas vinard write all three gr tours in one season is a 15 stages Grand Tour a grand tour for me it is but the question is which

Stages are you going to take away if you take two Sprint stages away sprinters will be mad if you take a Mountain Stage away um GC guys will say yeah I don’t got the time to battle and then to to gain some time if you take a time trial

Away is going to say I’m I’m not I’m not coming like uh yonas vinot from from from Vima he gets stronger through a grand tour he has that fatigue resistance that’s yeah incredibly yeah he’s incredibly strong within that last week when fatig kicks in so then he is

Just yeah then he can’t use his power properly or his his biggest strength is erased is gone then and he has to do it in two weeks a grand tour is three weeks and the whole thing of it is building up fatigue towards the the last weekend the

Last tough stages where we can create a difference um where the strong men are separated from the weaker men and what about the fact that they would write all three ground tours in one season if to the France for for instance was only 15 days are you certain they are going to

Do the three grand Tours when there is are five stages less no it’s it’s still is issue to Peak um for a long time so if it’s two or three weeks yeah you still have to you still have to get that Peak or as high for two months or go

Down in your Fitness Peak and then go up again so the issue Remains the Same if it’s 15 or 21 stages it’s very difficult to Peak for a longer period than yeah two weeks so if you want to spard says nope I’m only doing toour to France I

Can’t imagine all the other on tour Riders will say okay you can go to tour the FR we’ll do all of them well all depend on the cyclist if they want to do the three grand Tours and I don’t think it will influence their program a lot if

It’s 16 stages instead of 21 stages they still need the buildup towards that grand tour towards their big Target and if it’s 16 days or 21 days they don’t care the tour Remains the most important thing and it’s not all we have to write six stages less I’m going to do the two

Other I’m going to do the two other grand Tours no that’s so now we’ve got all the information about the substitution idea what’s your conclusion it’s you have the rider safety Rider health is very important but I think you need to find another way like I previously previously

Mentioned maybe give the doctor the time he needs but give permission to the rider if he’s allowed back on his bike to get a free right in the peltin or in the group that he crashed if he crashed in the in the gretto then he needs to get a

Free right back to the gretto but working with substitutions Etc is it’s very it’s too difficult to organize and you rely too much on people’s decisions people yeah no I don’t think it will work and what about a possible substitution until day three in a ground tour that’s a difficult one

It’s you have yeah if there is a substitution system system it would be like that first three stages and then um this this system uh can be used that is the only thing that can happen in the first three stages but then it’s quite a Pity if you

Start if you crash at the start of the fourth stage then yeah then then you have the same issue as you start in the first as you crash in the first so that that are the rules yeah but I’m not a believer of the step substitution system God damn such a difficult

Word right e is there any anything you would like to add to the substitution idea uh no I think I said what I wanted to say and it’s it’s a topic that a lot of different discussions a lot of different opinions um uh one guy will say I’m in favor the

Other will say I’m against it but it all belongs in the story of changing cycling in general so I mean interested to see and the next U months years how our sport will develop all right there’s only one thing I’m still curious about and that’s the audience what’s your take on the

Substitution discussion feel free to drop your ideas in the comments but for now that’s it for today’s short domestic cycling podcast episode don’t forget to subscribe and see you later see you later I’ve got this for the sickness there’s be twins in my brain