Environment and Sustainability PDSP – 30th January 2024

West Lothian Council committee session from Livingston civic centre chambers.

Agenda & Papers – https://coins.westlothian.gov.uk/agenda.asp?meetingid=9632

[Applause] [Applause] [Applause] N [Applause] A H Oh Good morning everyone it’s just gone past 11 I think time to start the meeting so good morning uh welcome to the meeting of the environment and sustainability pdsp I’m councelor Tom K and I will be cheing the pdsp this morning the meeting is being broadcast live over the Internet on the council’s YouTube

Channel a recording of the meeting will be available through the council’s website afterwards I am being assisted today by Mr Jim Jack and by committee Services um the meeting is being taken place under hybrid Arrangements that means that elected members and Council officers can take place either by being

Here in the chamber or by internet connection from somewhere else when members wish to speak they click a button that sends an alert to me and the officers helping me to run the meeting these requests go into a que and microphones are active Ved in turn to

Let them be heard when members are authorized to speak their faces will appear on screen there is more information including a privacy statement about meeting Arrangements on the council’s website there will be some time lags of a few seconds as the microphones and cameras respond to signals from Members

Members should please remember that everything they see while their microphones are live will be broadcast and recorded members are ask to be polite respectful and patient an agenda has been published showing the business for today’s meeting I will introduce each item and usually a council officer will speak briefly about their report

Before councilors ask questions have a discussion and make any decisions that are required councilors may leave the meeting from time to time where they have declared interests that prevent them taking part there will be a pause while that happens and they will be invited back in for the

Next item of business if the meeting is a long one then it might be a journ temporarily for a meal break or a comfort break I will say if that is going to happen could we have apologies for absence please thank you chair we have apologies from councelor Kathy maldon with

Councelor Craig Mick substituting and from councelor Tony Pearson thank you are there any Declarations of Interest I don’t see any indications order of business including notice of urgent business and Declarations of interest in any urgent business there are none the order of business will be as printed on the

Agenda and we confirm the draft meeting uh sry draft minutes of the meeting of the environment sustainability pdsp held on Tuesday 14th November 2003 thank you item five National Highway and transport customer satisfaction survey 2023 Gordon Gordon Brown thank you thank you chair the purpose of this

Report is to inform the panel of the national highways and transport Network public satisfaction survey results for 2023 for the roads and transportation service the national highway and transport Network public satisfaction survey collects The public’s views on different aspects ECT of Highways and transport in local Authority areas the

Survey is administered by measures to improve who support the national highways and transport Network and independent research company epsos Mori carry out the survey work the survey was sent to 3,300 households across West loan and 731 members of the public responded this represents an overall response rate of

22.2% up from 21.5% in 2022 and this compar with the national average response rate of 22.4% an overview of the results is shown in the table in section D2 of the report and information in relation to the seven themes follows in the remaining sections information is provided on the specific themes

Highlighting considerations and work ongoing to address the results of the survey to make Improvement the published reports are provided in appendices 1 2 and three which give Benchmark indicator results for the year which can be compared with the nht average in conclusion chair these results show that there is room for

Improvement across the service and we’ll be working internally with and with our partners to ensure that we improve customer satisfaction it recommended that the panel notes the results of the survey and the positive outcomes which are detailed in this report happy to take any questions to you thanks Gordon questions councelor Adamson

Thanks chair um thanks for the report um Gordon I know that um it’s an outside company that um Coles all this information now although it’s a national report and it’s in includes the rest of the UK for West luian to appear 111th out of 111 local authorities that participated is absolutely and utterly

Shocking um on page six of the report this is where we we we actually see the figures and West luian came 111th on 10 various different points on the satisfaction um in 2023 and I do understand 2023 was a bad year in terms of public transport and the change of um

Um the private operator however um on page four um D5 paragraph there’s no mention actually made of the steps to improve the transport information can you advise moving forward what we can do to improve the transport information there’s a lot of new information out there people don’t know where to find it

And I think um we need to know exactly what’s what what’s planned to make things better for a start thank you chair the public transport theme um in section D5 that you referred to we have recognized that due to the commercial aspects of what’s been happening on the local bus Network

In West Len there has been a lot of negative feedback um I’m working closely with the public transport team to to improve this in terms of contracts going forward um however the specifics of how we get the messages out to the public I’m not entirely sure of that at the

Moment chair but I can certainly feedback um I can certainly feedback with the answer to that question thanks Gordon any other questions coun ker thanks Gordon for the report yeah uh clearly it appears that there’s three main complaints from the public that’s potholes public transport and communication and although I note that

There are measures uh proposed to improve all three I would ask how we intend to do that and just to add in terms of potholes H it would appear that they use cold turn I’m not a technician but people are basically saying they just basically cover them over and

Within a couple of weeks they’re they’re gone again so is there uh scope here to be uh more permanent repairs rather than the semi-permanent Rush uh that’s kind of happening at the moment thank you thank you chair yes um I think we’ we’ we’ve got to recognize that during

The winter conditions it is um difficult to repair potholes due to the the weather conditions in terms of low temperatures snow Frost ice Etc what we have to do is U we have to do temporary reps to make roads immediately safe so if there a Poole that um happens is

Deemed dangerous through a risk assessment process we temporary repair it and then we take a note of where it is with a view to making a permanent repair when the the weather is more um satisfactory to the types of repairs we have got a view and a vision

That we will be going to more temporary repairs in the future however it has been sort of publicized across the roads industry and um across the news that there is new machinery and Technology out there that certain local authorities are trying and this is something that

We’ viewed with a view to trying to determine if it would be uh cost effective to do a trial um it’s um You probably heard of it it’s the pothole Pro machine that um midlo and and Edinburgh have been using we are looking at determining whether it may be um wise

To have a trial of that to try and determine if it would cut down costs for repairing potholes and carrying out a firsttime permanent repair however that will still be difficult to do um it would be a seasonal thing we would do permanent repairs over the summer period

With that kind of Machinery um but it is something we’re looking at to try and improve and because it is widely recognized that you know a large number of potholes do appear on the network through the winter period yeah thanks for that Gordon if I

May another one um how do we propose to improve communication um you know with the best will in the world we have a number a un veral one the 28,000 number but but increasingly people are saying that they can’t get through and I’m thinking about the elderly demographic who you know are

Unable for whatever reason to use online communication techniques so uh this appears to be a huge issue with some people I can chair I can certainly take that point on board the there sort of methods of communication are um you know the the customers uh and members of the

Public D phone in the the pothole location is logged and then forwarded to the roads and transportation service there’s also online forms that can be completed and it comes directly to the service so it is very uh Sleek for members of the public to get in touch to

Report pothole defects for people that can’t use public technology sorry uh web technology and the internet and such like they can still phone up but they do have to wait customer services to to get through but they can still report it via that method and there is also the

Opportunity they can write directly into the the um the the council or the roads and transportation service we will then log the the inquiry at that point thanks one last one please chair um in terms of pothole claims uh what’s the s figure what’s the current figure for that Gordon has that went

Up uh chair unfortunately I don’t have that information to hand I can certainly report back okay thank you solivan Christine thank you yes just picking up on the communication um issue that’s been highlighted now the report states that people in westan feel that they are quite well informed about climate change

Um we know sitting on this pdsp that we get very detailed reports on the council’s work to um meet climate targets um and address climate change but there seems to be something lacking in in terms of the Public’s knowledge of what the council is doing and I’m aware

That there have been sessions over in hen Park Center and and elsewhere really to um increase that level of understanding as to what the council’s doing but there still seems to be a gap here I’m just wondering if consideration has been given as to how we can um better communicate and raise awareness

Of what the council is doing in order to meet its climate change and and working towards um Net Zero um obligations uh chair there are as we all know corporate um papers and strategies on climate change but in terms of the roads and transportation service um we have through the WAN process identified

Areas of communication that we are going to look at in the future going forward one of them is is sort of how we deal with climate change how we meet Net Zero um in terms of a very um high level example we make sure that our contracts

Do try and meet Net Zero in terms of recycled materials in terms of plant and traffic movements when we’re carrying out works on the public road network but it is something that through our um assessment we will be looking into more detail with officers and we’ll also be

Linking in with other partners across the council to to make sure that we are improving in that field so just to clarify although I appreciate we’re looking at Works within the council as to the materials we we use um and how improvements can be Mak made in

The the process of of Road Works in terms of using sustainable materials and processes Etc but I think it’s it’s more in the conveying that to the public how awareness of that will be raised um amongst the public cuz I think they they need to be assured that the council’s

Doing all it can um to meet the targets particularly when we’re asking people to recycle and you know Fe these other things chair there is an opportunity to put this article into the bulletin the council bulletin um in terms of that specific theme on this we could probably

Probably do that in the future going forward that way that message could get out to um members of the public through that format yeah I think that that would be good particularly for the people that are not online but also maybe if we can increase the online um Communications on

This subject at the same time and hopefully that will capture more more people and my other question was around Road works in the speed of repair because the um the levels are are lower than m’d like for that as well I just wondered if there um

If this is down to budget or the volume of required repairs and those are the factors maybe impacting on the the response times and also does this report take into account when looking at um Road works the work carried out by contractors uh and you know on behalf of

Say Scottish water or or other companies cuz I’m aware sometimes people will think it’s the council that’s done a particular thing but actually it hasn’t been it’s been another organization so I was just wondering about um where this is really coming from is it purely Council um work that’s been

Carried out or is it work by other operators too chair uh the report considers all Road Works in West loading so people are being asked for their views on all Road works so that would include works that are carried out internally by the council’s Frontline operational staff it

Also includes Road works that are carried out by Developers for new housing developments Public Utilities statutary Undertakers any um road work or um works that are carried out in the public road Network are included thank you and if I could just ask a final question to uh so that being

The case can can you just outline the process in terms of the checks that are done um on work carried out by other companies because one thing I often get as a as a ward member is that contractors haven’t finished a particular bit of Road very well um and

That comes up in a fairly regular basis okay chair so when um large resurfacing schemes are carried out we well first of all um going back to the start when utilities or um developers look to carry out works on the road work they have to have a permit to do so so

They apply to us for a permit which we authorize for a period of time um roadws are monitored by our staff in terms of developments and utilities um and our internal works or when we’re using external contractors we have supervisory staff that do that once works are

Complete Within time scales we’ve got to recognize that some Works do take longer than anticipated time scales um so these things um are monitored as Road works are removed from the road Network there is also a monitoring period afterwards whereby there’s extended guarantees where people um where utility companies

And developers have to maintain have to come back and rectify any defects that may happen or may occur due to weather conditions or material issues so they have to come back and repair them within particular time periods and there’s also extended guarantees for statutory Undertakers through the um the the

Roadws register whereby um tracks that have been carried out for utilities such as BT Scottish Power and they have a six-year guarantee where they have to go back and rectify it if there’s any defects thank you and if you could just answer the point about the the road

Works and and speed of repair is there an issue with budget or volume of repairs or or both that’s potentially impact an unsatisfaction the um in terms of budget no I wouldn’t say there is an effect of budget on the length of time Road Works

Take to get get carried out one of the main factors that does extend uh time scales on the road and network is the weather if we plan to do a job say a road surfacing job for 2 weeks and we hit some poor weather where it’s raining

Or the temperatures drop and we can’t lay materials or carry out the appropriate work then obviously these get extended because of things like that but budget isn’t a contribut to the factor for extending Road works thank you sorry for my confusion car didn’t realize you on you like so I apologize

For my hesitation no no problem um i’ EO what councelor Sullivan was saying about um ensuring we communicate around uh climate change issues but I just wanted to bring up something specific um as an example um and that is that the 77% um satisfaction rate with the ease

Of access to doctors and health facilities drops off to 56% if you don’t have a car given the fact that I think it’s is it 40% of our community don’t have a vehicle um is there a way or is there already happening um a a way to

Link this up with the council’s active travel strategy specifically um to look at this because clearly if we’re um encouraging people not to use cars or or to find alternative ways to travel whether it’s by bike or other other ways um it would be good to link those up

Chair yeah that is a good that is a good point and that can be done uh we’re currently looking at uh there’s a new um budget model being looked at by transport Scotland whereby there is initiatives uh for active travel that we can apply for funding for such as um

Connecting links to high footfall areas um installing bus H sorry installing cycling facilities such as cycle stands uh making sure footways are appropriate with things like that so we can apply for funding for that it would be a case of us pulling that together to apply for

The funding to carry things like that out but there is a lot of initiatives that will help people who don’t have vehicles get to areas in um in uh Town centers and Villages where there are places they want to go in terms of shops and doctor’s areas we also make sure

That the the footways in the in and around these surrounding areas are maintained well enough that people have full access to them um and they’re targeted and inspected on a monthly basis around these high areas thank you thank you are there any other questions are there any

Comments coun CER Dan yeah thanks um I don’t know if this is part question or comment but anyway I’ll I’ll see it um just in terms of what Gordon was responding to in regard to what councelor um Sullivan had said I was advised that other than Council Road

Works um all utility works and such like are not automatically checked cuz we don’t have the resources and it’s probably up to the public to be reporting these gone forward once the work’s been done um and I’m aware of quite a few myself so how do we keep a

Check 100% on utilities and other Road works that are not H H done by Council Dan that was more a question okay well let’s just turn it into a comment then yeah that’s just going to suggest just right okay so that’s a bit of advice there that’s what I was told

We don’t have enough resources to check that so we’ll put that there the other thing I’d like to say is the nht Serv H returned 731 responses out of 3,300 and that gave us these figures I’m assuming so I think we’re getting we’re getting off a bit lightly here um so you

Know if the full uh cohort responders had responded these figures probably would have been a bit worse in my opinion thanks chair thanks Dan are there any other questions no okay sorry comments bigd any comments yeah I think Dan you’re right if everybody responds as when they’re

Asked to respond we would get a better idea of what the world looks like unfortunately when a small minority return it actually doesn’t give us that fome understanding of what the public actually generate you could turn it around on that basis and say because only that small minority um

Made a response the majority are satisfied but the report we’ve got is on the comments made but I do I mean I generally do take your point if people do tell us what what it is is the the issues then we can possibly better address them um I’m not necessarily

Disagreeing with what you’re saying um if there’s no other comments can we agree the recommendation to set out in the paper thank you takes us to item six Tex operational Services drainage in West Lan Gordon again thank you chair the purpose of this report is to provide the panel with

Information regarding the motion raised at F Council in relation to the council’s preparation for weather events flooding and drainage at the meeting of f Council on the 21st of November 2023 a motion was agreed to investigate and report on the management of existing drainage and flooding experienced recently in West

Lan details of the motion are provided in appendix one of the report the report addresses the terms of the motion and provides information in relation to the current position resources and challenges faced by operational Services during intense weather events I can advise the panel that the roads and transportation service has officers

During office and out of hours regularly monitoring weather forecasting systems and River levels to plan and allocate resources during adverse weather conditions a description of the services current cyclic maintenance programs and resources is provided in section D3 of the report and section d3.1 describes the work carried out by the flood risk

Management team cost implications and potential savings are described in sections D4 and D5 of the report and I would like to highlight the 10 million investment on flood prevention schemes in the last 10year period the effects of climate change are explained in section D6 and in section D7 in future preparations are

Highlighted the roads and transport transportation service is equipped and prepared with the required resources to cover heavy rainfall events including major flooding additional external resources can also be utilized if required the effects on our drainage system is also described Scottish government consultations and investment is highlighted in section d8 which also

Describes the Strategic work that currently being carried out legislation and collateral damage implications are also described in section D9 in conclusion chair the service monitors forecasts and SE of flood warnings prior to severe rainfall and weather events these are managed with the resources we currently have available throughout

Office hours and for emergency out of hours it is recommended that the panel notes the information contained in this report happy to take any questions thanks Gordon are there any questions colleagues councelor coder de thanks chair uh thanks again Gordon yeah I do appreciate the climate change is uh

Impacting uh these Services uh quite widely and but I’m quite interested in the under D7 the comments here in regard to Suds with new developments is basically saying that although they’re designed to take the drainage away from new development they’re actually impacting uh the the you know the the um

Existing drainage systems which by all accounts according to this report are you know inadequate cuz they’re not wide enough these days and we have lots of them what what would be the and I not hear uh that there there’s maybe scope to do something about that would that be

Within planning or would it be developers that would need to take this up what what actually would be a resolve or a part resolved to this gon thank you chair the um the generally developers when they do new developments they comply with guidance and legislation for sustainable Ur Urban Drainage Systems they’re generally

Designed to one and two 200 year rainfall events H across the the country there’s various measures that can be put in from swes uh retention basins um which hold water back basically the design of these systems is to make sure anything that outfalls from these systems is clean going into um existing

Drainage systems or water courses it is um heavily legislated for for when these things are put in to make sure that they don’t have adverse impacts on um existing drainage networks when they overflow into them but we’ve got to understand that because of the sharp heavy rainfall events that we’re

Recently experiencing sometimes they just cannot cope with the volume of water that’s going in a lot of it percolates into the ground and however there is um outfalls that that go into Drainage Systems so it is a a design um consideration it’s done through planning at the planning stage as it goes into

The development stage and then into construction but it is certainly um Improvement methods for development that help to ensure that there’s not too much overflow water going into existing drainage systems or they would be over capacity all the time so they do help and they do clean water going through so

It is to answer your question it’s uh at the planning stage and the design stage where these things are designed to make sure they can cope with the amount of uh rainfall for hard water standard for hard standings and developments so just just so I understand sopia Road’s point of view

Would you be advising planning uh of any modifications that might make that better that obviously if we’re going to get events like the rainfall we’ve had this is only going to get worse so you I know ultimately it’ll be up to planning but would you advise

Um of any can methods to improve we would we would provide chair we would provide comment to planning applications when they come in however developers do design them as per the the design guides and legislation that’s required for certain size developments but we would provide comments if we did have concerns okay thank

You CH Sullivan Christine thank you um on indeed 8 uh it mentions a total investment of 150 million of capital funding committed from the Scottish government for the 5 years to 2026 regarding um flood risk management can I ask if that funding will be going entirely to councils Via cosla or if

There’ll be chunks of that money and made available to other organizations here I’m not 100% sure on that it’s my understanding that it will be available for um councils to use or to to to fund in to bid into however I’m not sure if that’s opened up to other external

Partners or not I can report back on that okay thank you um I think we’ve heard already this morning the impact of climate change on our infrastructure I was just wondering if there had has been some kind of National Fund or investment made by Scottish government that councils can apply for

To make the necessary adaptations and um changes to deal with climate change and the the impact of our changing weather um on our local infrastructure aside from this 150 million that’s in the pipeline I don’t have that information to hand chair unfortunately is that something you could I could certainly look into that

Um I think it’s pretty clear from the report when when we’ve described that for us to improve our drainage systems and to adapt to climate change we need considerable investment so it would be something that we’ be looking to the Scottish government to provide funding to allow us to do that moving

Forward yeah thank you and I note that that point is made under D point6 the last paragraph in page four so um that’s where my question was really coming from but if you could possibly email members of the pdsp with that thank you are there any other questions coun Smith

Veronica thank you it was just um regarding D5 uh when mention about the cleaning of the gullies and if that was done annually you need additional uh vehicles and staff resources and then it goes on to say about um the FL flood prevention work so um could you maybe explain that so are

You saying that it’s best invest in flood prevention than than cleaning out the gullies every year the the flood prevention investment is for large scale um investment towards flood events particular example that would be the flood works that have been done down in brockburn where we’ve put

Up new walls to redirect water and prevent water over spilling into properties that’s the sort of capital investment used for um large scale flood prevention the in terms of the the the the saving for gullies gullies is um cyclic maintenance so we do that every year and basically that’s just focused

On active maintenance and cyclic maintenance for addressing Road gullies in terms of cleaning them out making sure they’re running properly and that’s done um every day for a over a 2-year cycle period so the two are completely different in terms of funding okay cuz I had thought it had

Said in the report that the gullies were cleaned out every second year there was a routine yeah that’s correct cheer the it’s a 2-year cycle so we go around uh the whole of West Len is splitting an East West split and we clean out every Gully in West len over a 2-year period

After that 2E period finished the the resources are allocated back to the start and when they continue for the next 2E period um new um assets are added when new developments are adopted and they get added into our cyclic maintenance program yeah so if you were to do that

Annually you said that you would need additional vehicles and staff I’m presuming you wouldn’t you’re not recommending that then that’s correct sh we to to do it on an annual basis we’ virtually be dou doubling up the work that would be required so we’d certainly need one possibly two more um

Specialized drainage machines and another four staff to carry that out if we were to to half the time frame for carrying out the cyclic maintenance of all the the Gully assets in the county okay and then uh it maybe ties into the sort of communication cuz you’ve gotten

D31 the flood risk and that you encourage members of the public to report all Road defects via our online forms of the call center do you do publicity uh regarding flooding and what um members of the public can do to assist um you know like reporting incidents of flooding in the roads and

Things here we do um we do put messages out on social media however um um it’s my understanding I don’t think we we put a specific one out advising people to um use the online forms on social media however as I said earlier in the previous report there is other methods

Of communication which we can look into such as putting it into the bulletin um and also um encouraging people to report in but again going back to the point I made earlier about people that don’t have access to technology if there is a flooding problem or there is an issue

They can certainly write in or get in touch with us um and we will deal with them as we we require thank you any other questions colleagues if not are there any comments Tom Tom poock thanks just we as a comment um I think it’d be Miss committee and ought

To appreciate the hard work has been done by the staff and Roads and certainly the flood team given some of the some of the other news stories we seen up and down the country so with the limited resources we have I think it’d be worthwh actually appreciating the

Staff and the work that they do and ours and Out hours thank you thanks Tom I was just about to say uh commend the staff for the work that they do and at times very unseasonable wether um so yeah I think we would note that as a pdsp um are

There if there’s no other comments can moove the recommendation there’s noted in the paper thank you takes us item s accessibility schemes 2023 24 again Gordon are you on a role today thank you chair the purpose of this report is to provide the panel with the proposed list of accessibility

Schemes for 2023 2024 for consideration on the 31st of March 2023 the council received notification from transport Scotland of the grant allocation in the amount of .185 million towards cycling walking and safer Roots projects for 23 24 the identified projects were approved by Council executive on the 20th of June

2023 and this list of projects is provided in appendix one one of the approved projects was removing barriers to accessibility this budget figure of £50,000 will resolve the identified accessibility issues in locations shown on the proposed list of schemes set out in appendix 2 officers have worked closely with disability West loan access

Who have agreed this program of Works in conclusion chair the introduction of these accessibility improvements will help to remove obstacles for those with mobility issues and ensure easier and better access for all users at the locations identified it is recommended that the panel refer the proposed accessibility schemes to the next available Council executive for

Consideration and approval happy to take any questions thanks Gordon are there any questions colleagues Council Adamson Allison um we’re really getting our money’s worth out of you today Gordon thank you for that report um how do we go about requesting an area for future consideration for an

Accessibility scheme I mean I note in D3 the consultation um the officers work closely with disability westloan access um but who else um can give some input and um specify areas that could be considered or put onto the list or you know for future reference CH generally the the list that

We have that we put forward uh is a combination of inquiries that have came in directly from the public with mobility issues or W members um who have experienced um constituents who have got mobility issues who notify us we assess them and put them on the list the

Consultation we have is with this disability West Len as I’ve said in the report but the consultation in tells us providing them with the list of proposals we’re not Consulting them asking them for locations we’re Consulting them with a list of proposals that we have um for them to to to to

Understand why we’re doing it and give us their approval that it meets I dare say if they were to come to us at that point with additional um locations that they were aware of we could incorporate it at that time however um in terms of the the list that we have is basically

From members of the public and W members right thank you thanks Alison coun sullan K thank you I had Bel Allison largely asked my question but just an extension of that um can you tell me how members of the public would get in touch to to raise these concerns um

Beyond contacting their W members I just so I can of a a point of reference cuz I have had a few rised recently here there is there is an opportunity through the website to to contact the road service directly however as I’ve mentioned before if members of the public have got an issue

Where they they may have mobility issues and they need a care dropped or they need a handrail or things like that they can certainly just write directly to the roads and transportation service and we’ll investigate it that’s great thanks very much any other questions colleagues are there any

Comments I would just have one comment to make and it’s regarding to um huffing Crossings in Lal Preston Road and Springfield Road um I think they will be welcomed by the community given they’re in close proximity to primary schools and also with regard to Springfield where the school crossing attendant was

Actually knock down in the area which this was being proposed so I think it will be a good safety um measures not only in these locations but other locations throughout West SL and which are listed in the paper can we then agree the recommendations in the paper thank

You paper 8 community recycling centers new operational practice David Maul thank you chair the report sets out information gathered from the first three months of the revised operating Arrangements at the council’s five recycling centers the decision to maintain all five recycling centers and reduce the operating hours from 280 hours a week to

144 hours a week was taken by Council executive on 25th of April uh 2023 the decisions taken by Council executive were designed to allow the council to deliver the £ 336,000 a year saving agreed by Council in February 2023 table two in the report sets out details of the bookings that have been

Made across the five sites between 2nd of October and 31st of December in summary in total there were 9,5 537 bookings available over that period against that there were 76555 bookings made meaning that there were 13,980 slots not booked however there were 5,26 bookings made where the

Vehicle booked into the site didn’t show so potentially a greater number of bookings could have been available if these slots had been cancelled in advance table four of the report provides more detail and site availability across each of the five sites section D4 of the report shows that the overall tonnage of waste

Collected uh at the 5 crc’s has decreased by 1,389 tons over the 3 months the introd the introduction of a booking system stops users from out with West loading using our sites and deter commercial use and this will have contributed to the decrease in tonnages lastly section D5 provides a comparison

Of the tonnages of fly tipping that have been collected by our next team over October to December you will see that over the 3 months this has been at a level that is consistent with the same period last year this would seem to reinforce officers view that most fly

Tipping is commercial in nature and that households are not turning to Illegal fight tipping as a result of of changes to CRC sites chair I’m happy to answer questions thanks David um questions councelor M Craig thank you very much chair um are we able to I’ve got three questions here

Are we able to identify if there is serial offenders not turning up to their sites cheer that is something we’re looking look at um we’re able obviously to identify users through the booking uh and the details that they give through the booking system so that is something that we’re actively looking

At that’s Grant and in terms of the the no shows um as well are we able to identify how these people are booking whether it be online or on Telephone yes chair um the the vast majority um of the the ,000 bookings that have been made uh are are using the

The online booking system and uh last but not least can we can we look at reducing the 30 minutes slot to say 20 minutes or 15 minutes to allow more people to attend and the the days that the sites are open here one of one of the things we’ve

Done is rather than reviewing the the the 30 minute slot it’s reviewing uh the flow of vehicles that we can allow uh in that slot um all of our five sites are different in composition uh some are smaller than others um so when we’re looking at uh the concurrencies of cars

That we can let let into sites we take a number of uh factors into account uh the size of the site the potential for queuing outside the site or within it and the safety of being able to move throughout a site officers are keeping that under regular review we have made

Some changes since October at both Lin lithco and and brockburn um when we started in October um those two sites which are uh two of our smaller sites we allowed um 10 cars per half hour each of those um just through the monitoring we’ve undertaken we increased that to 15

Uh at the start of December and just last week um started of last week we’ve increased that to 20 cars per per half power at both of these sites so you know as an example uh during a week that has freed up in the last week an extra 160

Uh cars a day that are able to access uh both of these sites so officers will continually um take all these factors into account and will um review and and make changes as appropriate thanks Craig councelor Adamson Alis yeah thanks um chair it’s actually following on to um what um councelor

Meek was asking about on the new shows um is it possible to do an indepth working out of what’s actually happening there because the the number of no shows I mean in in one Recycling Depot alone it’s nearly a fifth of the appointments being made that are being

Missed and the frustration being felt by other people who are trying to get slots and we’ve just come through a very busy period which has added to the frustration by members of the general public and is totally understandable but I can’t help but feel with the the technology that’s being used and if

90,000 of these um bookings are made online that there can’t be I I can’t believe that we we can’t get more information for example asking people to confirm when when the reminder goes out that um they’ve made a book Bing um ask them to return by confirming that

They’re going to be visiting but I mean I would leave that to the tech people who understand these things better than I ever could but I think we really need do need to look into this because there no shows is um it’s it’s quite alarming thank

Okay cheer yes we are we are looking into uh the level of of no shows and how we can use the the data that we can do Lo through the booking system to um try and understand that uh a bit better um you’ll see uh in the report um I think

It’s brockburn for example the level of no shows there in comparison to other sites looks exceptionally High there’s no logical reason for that we use the same process across all our five sites um but yeah there is a a commitment from officers to uh look at the data in more

Depth uh and see what we can do um we’re certainly um raising the awareness of it through our social media channels if you book a slot in advance for a CRC and you know in advance that you don’t intend to use it then um through the confirmation email you get

When you make the booking if you go back through that um and cancel it that booking then becomes available almost uh instantaneously it is a a live system so um we’ll work on that messaging uh certainly going forward thanks David councelor CER Dan y thank you um

First of all uh David can you confirm that each site we have a council operative standing at the gate um letting cars in and ticking off the booking slots the operatives at the the five sites use a handheld device to check off um the cars coming in that they were

That they are booked so what information is on that handheld device is a registration number or yes that’s the match okay so is there no option to be able to do that automatically under a vehicle recognition yes we are uh chair we are looking at the technology to introduce

Uh automatic number plate recognition that would be linked to the barriers um we’re currently looking at that that would allow us to take the operative away from the the front door of the site if you like I I would hope so thanks another B question I’m really struggling

With D3 so initially it’s saying the standard time slots for those visiting in a car are 30 minutes long and then go over the page uh following on following on for table two it’s saying based on observation of traffic flow the number of bookings per hour available at lisco

And brockburn was increased from 20 to 30 and then to 40 an hour can you let me understand I’m not understanding that or have I got my masth wrong um no those those figures that are quoted per hour we we tend to work in half hour slots

For the the the bookings so possibly a bit confusing the way it’s laid out in the report but um as I explained earlier when we started in the uh the revised operating hours in October we take L letho as an example we allowed 10 cares

In per half hour so 20 an hour um through the the monitoring we’ve done we’ve increased that twice subsequently so from 10 to 15 per half hour in November and from mid January um it’s now doubled from the original 10 per half hour to 20 per half hour so the

Average visit then is not half hour it’s 5 minutes I don’t yeah we we don’t measure it in in that every every um vehicle entering and exit could could take different times depending what what they’ve got right so the half hour slots a bit confusing thanks for that um what

About the telephone bookings again back to the communication thing in the first paper if people are unable to book online what about the telephone bookings how successful or not are they CH you’ll seeing uh section .6 of the paper that there has been just over a thousand uh inquiries to the contact

Center um that’s that’s the alternative to using the booking system not all of those inquiries result in a booking it might be a different type of query may just be quit quering the opening hours but it is there there is capacity there to handle calls you’ll see in the table

Table seven in the report that the capacity to handle calls is is is quite a bit more than we’ve experienced so um we would continue to encourage anyone who’s not comfortable or doesn’t have access to use the booking system to to contact us through the contact center

That is availability there I also note in that table that there’s appears to be one complaint that they can’t get through on the phone but I’m I’m not sure about that no by what I’ve heard but anyway thanks for that David okay thank you I have three questions um for

You the first one is relating to recycling rates so you’ve said that um there’s been a large decrease in tonnage 1,389 tons less collected at recycling centers um for for those of our community organizations that are very uh concerned about the amount of waste does it have an impact a negative impact on

Your reporting on recycling rates across West loan it’s my first question sh uh the simple answer to that is it’s possibly a bit early to tell we’ve only been going 3 months uh as many of you know the recycling uh rates are subject to verification through sea

And we’re certainly not at that um position just now that we can share any of that information but the minute it becomes available um certainly we’ll be happy to to to share it in the public domain and my second question relating to that is um I’ve noticed noted that

Flight tipping is up only by six tons in comparison to the decrease in the amount uh that you’re collecting is there a way for the pdsp to see if household black bin ER tonnage has gone up as a result of the tonnage that’s gone down um at the recycling centers I appreciate it’s

Difficult to know what type of um items are not now being set given to the recycling center but that would be a concern for for Community groups again as that perfectly recyclable items are now going to be going in the black bins and will and that will have a KnockOn

Effect on um potentially if if this happens as well with the brown bins so that my question is could we see if there has been an increase that might be related to the decrease in recycling rates chair um the report sets I think over the three months overall fly

Tipping um tonies are are fairly consistent with the the previous year in terms of specific question about black bag uh fight tipping that’s an inquiry I can take back to our next team and and share that with uh panel members well sorry sorry just to clarify I wasn’t

Talking about fly tipping and the black bins what I’m talking about is the amount of tonnage collected overall from households in West loan is that going up because they’re unable to use the recycling centers not the fly tipping aspect for the black bins apologies chair for for my

Misunderstanding um similar to the the previous question where we’re quite early into this um in terms of being able to um analyze data around uh our trages um it’s it’s subject to that verification that we receive each year through sea so um afraid I can’t answer that specific question at this moment in

Time okay and my final question um is here is more about uh the the percentage booking rates across the different um recycling centers uh I noted here that there’s only 58% of slots utilized in Whitburn um given that wetbb has longer opening hours than either lisco or

Brockburn which has very high rates of booking so I think lisco is 99% bookings made and brockburn is 94 would there be any possibility to increase opening hours at the recycling centers where there are much higher takeup of slots share the the simple answer is it wouldn’t be impossible um but but um

Across our um five sites we’ve got roughly um I think 15 staff so um working across um multiple sites so there are staff rotors and and shift patterns that would be impacted by any changes uh that we would make so certainly not um not in possibility but possibly quite tricky at an operational

Level to make those types of changes okay thank you thanks Carol councelor Sullivan krtin thank you very much um unfortunately I would have to disagree with Carol on that last point on surprisingly and if you note that between October and December actually the slots booked Rose by nearly 20% in

Whitburn so may be just a bit more work to raise awareness of availability um anyway my first question question is about the flexibility of the system I’m just wondering how much the parameters are already set within the system and or what flexibility the council has to variate those parameters and in

Particular I’m looking at the the diary system so you can only book I think two weeks ahead um so it could be that someone’s got work scheduled in their house maybe decorating or having a clear out for the end of the month by which time they’re back their holid whatever

And you know would like to book a slot for that time but they can only book it for 2 weeks um I just think that the system shouldn’t be overly honorous in a way that it could deter people from actually recycling chair I would agree we certainly don’t want to deter people

From from using uh the system the reason that we extend the booking system to a limit of of two weeks is is probably based on some of the feedback we we’ve received through councils who introduced similar schemes to us um before before we did um the feeling was that Beyond 2

Weeks bookings do become a bit more speculative um uh and therefore you may argue you might get more no shows for example um from that we’re happy to keep it under um review at all times the other um the other thing in relation to the the booking system is um some of the

User feedback that we’ve got is um around the ability when a user goes into the booking system um to see the availability uh across all five uh sites at the one time uh that is an issue it’s been has been raised um through some customer feedback um we have spoken to a

Software supplier around the potential for uh adapting uh the system to to give that visibility to to to customers uh and if we can if we can make that change at some point in the future I think that again would make the system just that wee bit easier for for customers to to

Access so just to confirm that we can set the parameters in that um maybe dependent on on the feedback and the experience uh and data here yes um the caveat that obviously it would require software developers to to assist us in in making those types of change okay thank you I

Was going to ask about a 30 minutes slot that’s already been addressed um the the ID required um along with the the vehicle um registration plate is also the case that two forms of idea required one photographic and one with a I’m just coming back to that point again about

The system may be overly honorous and I’m also concerned um about whether staff for getting a lot of grief at these sites you know there’s been um quite a few coms put out recently about um how people need to treat staff with respect and I’m just wondering if you

Know an overly honorous process is actually you know resulting unfortunately in in stuff maybe been on the receiving end of I rate users um which completely unacceptable and I don’t think anybody would want to to see happen so if you could just give me some information on that

Please chair my understanding is when someone um comes to a site the staff use their um uh electronic pad to check off the registration number of the vehicle of that matches they allow access to the site and not aware that we ask for additional ID but I’ll have to double

Check that in relation to the question about you know violence uh and aggression um there are no excuses for members of the public a aiming abuse uh any of our CRC staff who are doing their job even if they are frustrated about access to the site um we are looking at

Ways we can mitigate against some of that I’ve mentioned earlier looking at number plate recognition for example that would um take the operatives away from uh the front of the site we’re also looking at what training we can give our staff on how to deal with um incidents

Of of that type of nature okay thank you the reason to ask about the ID is because I think my personal experience in that of my family is it was number recognition um but a constituent had emailed me to see that the automatic email getes when he tries to book is

Around um photographic ID and address ID now there’s a disconnect between what’s happening in in reality and what has been advised might be putting people off from booking in the first place and you might get folk tur up to the CRC being annoyed and completely agree nobody should be taking

Any frustrations out and stuff and that would be entirely unacceptable I just wonder if um I I guess you’ve probably answered it you’re going to look into it but you know I I think any ways that we could limit any NE potential negative impact in staff is really important but also to

Make sure that it’s as simple a process as possible for customers for users um in a way that also encourages recycling CH I agree with that and and the parts of that that require my clarification I I’ll come back to all panel members and I just have one final

Question and it’s about the um number of NOS in brockburn and I I appreciate you’re going away to look at the data it would just be a question I had had my head when reading this was you know are they going elsewhere potentially because they might have a a few days to wait

Given that there’s um it’s open for for l time Cher it’s all that’s all part of that bit about delving into the data in a bit more detail we want to be able to see if if people are are speculatively booking more than one site at one time

For example so um yeah we will look at that in detail thanks Christine David P thanks chair um David two of my questions I’ve been asked already but I’m kind of looking to expand on them a bit more so the question was asked about anpr and you say you were looking into

It what what’s the time skills we’ve got here because certainly I’m aware at the start of this process and simar what counc Sullivan was saying there was heightened or higher cases of violence and aggression towards the staff in the early days and we know that we done some

Health and safety and done a done a kind of had a spreadsheet and the guys had to record any any increase of use or or violence towards him so given that was that was back in October or 3 months 4 months down the line what what has the

Servers done to try and mitigate against the the threats of violence and aggression I know the apnr would be one that would would completely take it away and as you know in terms of health and safety to eliminate any risk should be the priority anpr would do that so what

Stage are we at of actually getting to that position chair it’s difficult for me to put uh specifically about the NPR a specific timetable on it um I regard it as a as a priority at at the sites we have actually got um the software there we

Need to now get it um tested uh and see how we would then Ru that out um in terms of other uh actions we can take to to to mitigate um I’ve mentioned um training for staff and how deal with violence and and aggression we’ve used our social media channels recently um

Quite often to um report uh on on some of that and raise it uh public awareness these types of incidents uh uh occurring um and lastly whilst um this is after the event largely but we do encourage any members of Staff who um receive uh any um violent or aggressive behavior to report

It to the line manager and through the council’s uh systems for uh reporting health and safety uh matters and and that is important because um managers needs to be transparency we need to know um that these things are are happening thank thanks for that just one

Thing and so so I’m aware we started this in October we now into February if we don’t have NPR can you tell me what what time skills we’ve got for getting guys trained up because these guys have been working these sites for 10 years and to not be giv any

Training and dealing with aggressive customers I think is um certainly a failing on the service part because this was highlighted at the pdsp is before we before we started the booking system CH that is a matter I will take up with the the disposal manager and the head off operational Services

Okay councelor Smith Veronica thank you yeah this is maybe a repeat of what previous people have asked but it’s just for my understanding uh so in 2022 you had 45,000 visits a month uh and for this uh period it’s down to about 25 just over 25,000 visits

A month and then the tons collected in different areas down by A fifth or a third and half down in Brock bur um so where’s all the recycling going um and how confident are you that these 20,000 less visits were commercial um people in terms of been able to

Quantify uh how much of the tonnage that’s reduced is is down to either um previous commercial users or or out with West Lo then supp the answer to that is we didn’t have a booking system before then so we wouldn’t have been able to uh identify but anecdotally we we can of

Knew it was happening so uh it’s difficult to quantify uh if all that tonnage is is down to that it’ll certainly be a a fair um share uh of it um sorry C CH could you repeat the first part of the question it was just the number of

Visits are down substantially H the tonage collected is uh down as well um so that would suggest there’s a lot of recycling must be going somewhere but it’s not in fly tipping so where’s it going so are you saying it’s all commercial and they’re not in West

Lovian yeah I think my previous answer is yeah we we would reckon there is a a fair share of that drop in tonnage as um down to the fact that there’s no restrictions on um people traveling from out with West loan to use our sites and

Commercial use we we’ll never be able to see definitively if it is all of that tonage or um what type of proportion it is but it’s a bit concerning thank you I’ve got a question ging question raised by councelor s in the booking system for Miss appointments would it be possible

When someone books a slot that they are then blocked from booking another slot until they’ve met that commitment cheer I would have to take that one back to see whether um the system would be able to identify that uh and and make that thank I’ll do that thanks p are there any other

Questions are there any comments coun Adamson Allison thanks chair um I mean it’s based on anecd anecdotal information that I received and I think I’ve mentioned this before but the people in berno and Curry are complaining that w SLO and are making it difficult for them to get rid of their

Rubbish now so that might help to answer part of the question that um my colleague just asked there just now but I think it’s quite obvious that there is a beding in Period there are going to be issues raised but as long as they’re being worked on and that they’re being

Investigated and this Nosh situation is absolutely atrocious and I just hope that things will improve and that um this staff at the recycling depos don’t have to put up with any kind of aggravation from the members of the public they’re doing their job and from my own experience they’re always very

Helpful and um full of information and usually very cheerful but um they’ve had a hard time so um let’s give them a break and hopefully get to the bottom of this thank you can down yeah thanks chair um just firstly before I forget I’m not sure that penalizing people for no shows I

Know it’s a big number but there could be many reasons why people don’t show up if it’s um uh a fortnite um that you’re having to pre-book these so I’m not sure that’s a good idea but I think what’s been uncovered today uh in terms of the review is the automatic recognition

Would be really helpful it’ certainly be helpful to the operatives um and uh the point that Carol made about the review hours for busy rcc’s and clearly at the moment it seems to be L Leto in brockburn uh to maybe increase that and uh again the comment that councelor uh Sullivan made

About it being over honorous and that might be part of the reason why there’s no show they’ve booked it and then you know decided not to but we need to make it as simple and easy as possible for people to get to our crc’s there’s been

A big change a huge reduction in ours but we must keep bringing people with us and trying to encourage recycling that is our priority in my SL and Council and we have to do all we can to continue that thank you coun M Craig thank you very much chair um it’s

Disappointing to hear the majority of no shows to the CRC sites are online given how easy it is to amend uh or indeed cancel the booking um me personally in terms of feedback from constituents uh have been mixed some having no issues getting access and booking and find it actually quite user

Friendly to to others being not able to get a slot especially during the busy period at the festive time and I think we I would urge uh us to try and look at how we mitigate the kind of things for next year um I want to take the opportunity to say

As well that there’s no excuse for violence and aggression uh towards any our staff and I think uh it should be high on the agenda to remind staff what they could do and should do if this does happen um the staff at the CRC sites are fantastic I think it’s really important

To to note the the assistance that they provide to people that attend these sites um and is a fantastic service that they do provide on behalf of the council they do go above and beyond at times I do worry if we’re going to potentially look at putting any uh

Limits on people potentially visiting the sites as not been able to book another slot until you’ve fulfilled that slot because obviously you can only attend once in that 30 minute period um so if you’ve got more than one run to do say sadly you’re empty in a house

Because a pass a loved one or or what have you um it would be difficult to constantly try and get bookings um so thanks very much keep up the good work thanks Craig councelor Sullivan krtin thank you yeah you’ll beond surprised to hear me say that I don’t

Think the wolding and Council taxpayer should be paying for people from bno and Curry to dispose of their waste um as I’ve already said I think the process has to be as simple and straightforward as possible for um Center users to encourage them to recycle but also for

Staff um everyone has a right to go to the work without the fear of violence or abuse um and regardless of someone’s feelings about the the new Diary system it’s not an excuse to take out on staff but it does sound as if the number plate recognition would make a huge difference

And I hope that can be progressed as quickly as possible Tom poock thank you chair and just just to feedback the the majority of the staff working on the sites think this is a very good system it’s not all doom and gloom it’s a very good system and if for

Get the tweets put in place that been mentioned today we have even better system it’ll be better for the public and better for the staff thanks Tom are there any other comments suing up can I say that I think we are fortunate in West loan that we

Have five sites in comparison to some of our surrounding councils fer have two um so the accessibility to the sites are easier than elsewhere and fortunately um we have been on an adverted Commerce Journey since 2019 we are due to um further reductions or continual reductions in Scottish government all

Local authorities have been looking at how they deliver Services um and what has been recently decided last year is a further continuation of that the booking system it may or may not have its faults there no shows would suggest that they can still book they just don’t know how to

Cancel if they don’t need to go there and if they can get their act together with a reminder that’s actually sent out to them just to Simply say ccel um that would actually help their neighbors get better accessibility to the centers um regarding the staff who are at our

Sites there is no excuse for any um verbal or physical attacks on them full stop no excuses um they may be the public may be frustrated but they shouldn’t take that frustration out on our staff who have been we mentioned earlier doing an excellent job I think

What has been mentioned today by members there are tweaks changes and if they can be brought into the system I through software or um systems on the ground um the automatic number plate recognition it will make it a lot easier and frustration that people may find with the system um will hopefully disappear

And what accessibility that the public have will be seen as an experience which yeah you used to could go anytime that’s not possible given their current Financial conditions but we can adjust the system to make it more accessible easier to understand um then I think

That’s the way in which we need to go forward and the comments made by um Mr Mo to look at what has been raised by members and to come back and what we can do uh easily that that’s implemented in the short term if there’s longer um issues due to external factors software

Providers or whatever then we need to expedite that as part of the process as well um colleagues can we agree the paper the sort of recommendations that set out in the paper thank you item nine performance report quarter 3 2023 24 Mr Jack Jim thank you shair thank you chair the purpose of

This report is to uh report the performance of the quarter fee indicators to this panel here before I I go through the report there is one error in the report in relation to uh Street lighting uh indicator which is shown is red that is down to the uh the setting

In the the system it should have been adjusted for the move into quarter 3 which represents part of the winter period and obviously energy consumption goes up that indicator should actually be Greening which would mean that there were seven green indicators three Amber and three red the detail of the

Indicators that are red is included within the report and there are two appendixes covering all the others relevant to this pdsp and the pdsp he’s asked to note the the performance thank you chair thank you Jim are there any questions coun Adamson Allison yeah I just want to say thank you for that

Clarification cuz I was pulling my hair out trying to figure that one out cuz I kept reading it over and over and over and thinking but it’s under Target so why is it R and I thought there was something really obvious that I was missing but it does make me wonder on

The one which is um showing as Amber which is the total number of roads and transportation complaints it’s an Amber but should that one not perhaps be in red I’m just checking through that just now uh on page one of the appendix one page one that’s on the traffic light cuz I

Thought maybe they’ve got switched around somehow yeah chair I’ll check that one and get back to the panel as well to confirm that thanks Alon no I think you’ve been doing it on purpose to see if we’re reading the papers I think that’s a test

So yes we do cuz I noticed a few other people nodding their head at the same time thank you okay thanks Alison are there any other um highlights we made if there’s no further questions any comments can we agree the recommendation set out in the paper thank you item 10 quarterly climate change

Update Peter please thank you chair um the purpose of this report is uh to present the latest quarterly climate change update and to provide a progress report on work undertaken to meet the actions in the climate change strategy in addition to outlining progress against the strategy actions

The report also gives short updates on the nature emergency cop 28 um the West Lo climate Action Network and previously agreed energy mitigation measures in relation to the climate Action Network referenc in D5 um the Gathering held at and Park Center yesterday was well attended and included the announcement of grant funding Awards

Ranging from £1,000 to £4,000 to 14 projects across West Lan and an introduction to the newly recruited staff team officers from a number of council Services attended uh leading a workshop on the previous climate action towns Blackburn project hosting a stall to discuss the advice and support available from business Gateway and

Delivering a presentation on some of the actions the council has been taking in response to the climate emergency and with regards to energy mitigations update in section D6 chair I’m happy to report that the number of completed PV in I sorry LED lighting installations has now risen to seven uh

With the remainder of the work schedule to be completed in the coming months uh work to develop a 100 kwatt PV installation on the south uh facing roof of the Civic Center were completed in December with further proposals for West H CER high school Under review and the

Procurement process for the other sites H underway here it’s recommended that the panel notes the contents of the report and the attached quarterly performance update and I’m happy to take any questions thanks Peter are there any questions colleagues Carl yes um just one question H around

Action T2 and um the delivery of the new active travel plan um a note that should have been new active travel plan from 2022 and as um also note that um this is going to be reported on in early 24 could you please give us an indication

Of when we might uh see the new active travel plan please okay um I don’t have a specific timeline on that but I’m happy to pick that up with officers and report back on that one thank you thanks pet C CER oh right thank you uh thanks for that Peter um action

T3a uh the work was suspended on the passenger transport strategy what you’re saying is this should this should be sorry the public consultation is expected to take place from the 3rd week in January has that started or what what are we up with that Jim me just comment on that one the

Passenger transport consultation was delayed uh initially because of the changes we had the network as a result of Miguel’s withdrawal from West and that’s picked back up in terms of a much more stable Network now and we intend to go in the consultation during February February

Than and that will be reported back here I’m assuming just one more um the action code W1 a uh notes the council’s implementation of the twin stream recycling project um and also notes the aims of the strategy are to increase recycling um um just and about the pilot that’s happening I think it’s

Armadel what do you think or will we get updates here on the possible impact of the deduction in ours in our recycling centers and I’m thinking think about electricals old bikes that can be upcycled reused that kind of thing well that report report back on That J if I could maybe just come in on that one as well it is Our intention to report back on the the two pilots that are operating just now in the Twin stream recycling we need to allow them to run for a similar period as is

Happened in terms of the CRC so it’s likely to be the March pdsp we come back on them and we will pick up on the other uh points on the CRC we have already committee to report quarterly on the performance there okay thanks J I’ll that report thanks Dan Swit your mic off

D are there any other questions colleagues are there any comments agree the recommendations set out in the paper thank you item 11 2023 24 financial performance mon six monitoring report Robert thank you chair this report provided an update on the financial performance of the environment sustainability pdsp Portfolio Services

As a month 6 being the period to September 202 23 it is a report on historical performance no actions to be taken arising from this performance the financial position included within this report formed part of the overall Council position report Council executive on 7th of November 20123 turning first to the general fund

Revenue account the spend for 2324 is forecast to be 66.5 million which is £ 534,906 than budget largely as a result of inflationary pressures and delays in bringing in budget savings measures being partially offset by reduced spending in roads and transportation it’s anticipated that the general reserve the general fund Reserve

Budget reduction savings planned for 20324 will be fully delivered by the end of the financial year turning to Capital um the spend for 2324 is forecast to be 15.4 million which is £ 520,000 less than budget as a result of program slippages and Savings in roads more than offsetting program

Accelerations in net in Open Spaces I’m happy to take questions and there after I ask that the committee note the recommendations in the report please thank thanks Robert any questions colleagues councel Adamson Allison yeah thanks I don’t know if it is actually a question um well it is really section e

Last paragraph I’m right and thinking the word million doesn’t belong there sorry section what sorry the word million what section please sorry e conclusion it’s on the final page of the paper page eight it says e conclusion and then talks about an overspend of 5,000 and then it says million after it

So it’s not 534 billion apologies 534,906 okay thanks CH I need a bit help here um under d3.1 point3 general fund Revenue Recycling and waste management it states the recycling and Waste Services budget is forecast to overspend by 204,000 mainly due to oneoff costs implementing the amended opening the crc’s and a

7-Day week collection but my understanding was that these savings were made in the last figure uh 321,000 so how how have we got over spend it was to do with um sorry say can I bring in David oh even better chair uh that that overspend is mostly due to the delay in implementing

The change to the CRC opening hours so I think when the budget was agreed in February uh of last last year the saving was phased to be in from the 1 of April but as I covered in the previous paper we didn’t implement the revised CRC

Opening hours to the 2nd of October so 6 months slippage in effect so sorry so just just thanks for that David so just to understand this a little bit clearer does that reduce the amount you saving then because if you save 321,000 and then you’re spending a further how how’s that working

It’s timing we will still save the 336,000 it will just take us a we bit longer to to get there okay I think I partly understand that no my but anyway thanks for that David any other questions celor Smith Veronica yeah it was just under H

D314 and it says there was under spend of 483,000 um due to Savings in Winter maintenance through increased use of the winter resilience fund could you maybe explain what that is So yeah I come on that one as well so in terms of the winter maintenance fund uh members will recall that that was set up to allow us to draw down for things like fill and grip bins uh and uh for you know a busier winter than normal so

We’ve drawn down against that to cover the costs of setting up the grip bin Crews that are filling the bins at the moment so it was savings made is that because the the climate’s been pretty good or what we’ve drawn down in terms of the budget slightly more than we need

To make sure we can offset the other pressures and and the oper ational Services wider budget okay thank you um and also in the previous section um d313 the waste management and it says about the service is ranked 24th and 25th in Scotland for the cost of

Collection and Disposal um are you able to identify what the issues are for that and the reasons and is there a method that you could use to prove that yeah I think that’s unfair to ask that one of David given he’s he’s only covering the role in an inter measure uh

In terms of the The Benchmark and information that we receive we do look at the contributing factors to that and whil we’ve got moves to have a circular economy that would standardize collections across Scotland that’s not currently the case at the moment and service councils offer different types

Of collection and different delivery and collection methods so that impacts on where we sit in a ranking uh and there’s also labor costs and other things come into that and equally there’s a commercial cost of disposal waste uh facilities of different rates uh and there’s different transport costs

Involved there so it is quite a complex uh thing we need to balance okay and then just one final question um with the open space and obviously we had some major um trees falling down with the wind in the past few weeks so I just wondered if that’s going to impact uh in

The costs here at this point we’re we’re not uh entirely sure of what the total cost of that will be uh we are looking at it uh there are schemes available such as the bailing scheme that does have quite a high trigger in terms of the value

Before you can bid to get the the money back uh but we are looking at that at the moment it may well create a pressure in operational Services Nets and lands budget if we’re unable to claim it back from schemes such as the bance scheme thank you any other questions any

Comments we agree the recommendation in the paper thank you takes us to item 12 Garden waste charging um David David please thank you chair the paper sets out officer proposals that would see the council start to charge for the collection of garden waste in the brown bin from May 2020

2024 with a proposed charge of £50 per household the background is that this is a proposal that officers put previously put forward previously in the 2023 24 Revenue budget but Council agreed not to introduce it on that occasion however as set out in section d. one of the report the council

Continues to S find itself in a very challenging financial position with a budget gap of £ 36.2 million forecast over the next four years which is 9.6 million more than the level of savings already agreed Council executive in December 2023 agreed that officers were to take urgent action to try and identify

Additional budget savings so this proposal forms part of that consideration 16 councils currently charge for a garden Waste Service which is a non-statutory service and of those uh that don’t uh at least one other council is currently considering introduction of a scheme for next year uh aside from

Ourselves based on a charge of £50 per household officers estimate that the scheme could raise net additional income of 1.15 million a year and that’s based on an uptake of 40% of households with a brown bin signing up to the permit scheme there are alternative ways of dealing with Garden waste if

Householders don’t uh wish to sign up for a permit and these are set out in section d. 7 of the report chair I’d be happy to take any questions thanks David Just on um the figures on page eight on the uptake and how much you’re going to get so further up in your um thing you said in in the report it says it’s 70k eligible but only 56k participating so I assume the 56k uptake is the number of

Brown bins that have actually been issued so that would mean your 28k that you’re you’re H aiming for is actually a 50% not a 40% as you said said there the 40% would be 224 chair the measure I’ve used to to Benchmark is against the total number of

Households who are eligible to have a brown bin uh collected not everyone who currently has a a Brin bin uh presents it for for collection so um the the method of of the Ben calculating the benchmarking um has been used um against the total number of households okay so that’s not a

Realistic figure then because that’s not how many people have have got a brown bin but moving on the other thing you said at the top of the um page was if you H discontinued using Garden waste uh a collection it would have caused a a recycling rate decrease of 11 to

133% so if you’re now only going to get for and that’s optimistically only going to get 40% of the previous rate what repercussion is that for the recycling rate what is it going to drop by I think um if if there is um depending on the uptake of the scheme

Yes the the recycling rate could be impacted um that’s a measurement um we won’t be able to to measure until such a scheme is in place if there is an element of garden waste directed to CRC sites for example that will that will be added back into a recycling uh Target so

Um it’s probably too early to determine that outcome but you will have to take that into account because you probably will get a a probably a 50% recycling rate decrease but moving on so the brand bins are still going to be uplifted regard regardless of getting a permit at the

Same rate so you’re going to use the same staff and lotes to be able to service it but what you’re going to have to do is every bin that doesn’t have a sticker to say that they’re they they’re able to have Garden waste the staff are

Going to have to examine every bin that doesn’t have a sticker to make sure they haven’t got Garden waste in it what H how much more work is that going to be for uh staff to do have you have you have you taken that into account chair I think that’s taken into

Account an overall assessment uh in one hand there may be less um bins to collect uh but on the other hand staff will have to inspect those that do not display a permit so one may off offset the other okay and another a in your um H report there you estimate that you’re

Going to need 3.8 FTE increase for year one but as far as can tell what it is is a staff in customer service and operating operation services so what is that that those staff going to do is it to field complaints about the the service and to issue

Permits CH it will be a combination of both based in experiences of other councils that we’ve spoken to when they’ve introduced a scheme uh there is a requirement to have more staff on hand uh at the beginning the bedding in period both to to handle inquiries and complaints and take um bookings for

Those that may not wish to use an online uh Forum okay so I I don’t want to hog all the time here so just the last question is if there’s going to be that and I think it’s similar to to other questions in other in in other reports if there’s

Only going to be 40% take up where do you actually think the garden waste is going to that’s not being collected is going to end up do you not think it’s more likely to be fly tipped in the in the countryside cheer again back to to the The Benchmark and the discussions we’ve

Had with with other authorities that have introduced similar schemes over the last uh number of years including neighboring authorities that introduced the scheme uh only a matter of months ago um those councils have have told us that they haven’t experienced uh an upsurge in Garden waste fly tipping so we’d be

Confident that that that our experience will be the same okay just and just one last question the rate that you’re you’re doing does seem to be much higher than uh other authorities I know east east loan have just brought one in h and it’s £35 not 50 would you not consider

Possibly um a making that less and just put in another question question quickly is surely you should have a upfront a done a campaign to get more home composting not just drop it on a a resident just like this you know it because if you look at social media

Everybody is really upset about it paper rather than other things round about I know as a comment you did ask a question I think David’s trying to answer it yeah I think chair I’ll answer the second part uh first about composting uh for example we will have a a Communications campaign it’s been

Worked on just now for if we get uh the approval to proceed with this scheme the scheme won’t go live till May so there will be an opportunity to to get the message out there across as many households uh as possible and help sign post to to those that are interested in

Uh composting in terms of the rate that set out in the paper uh that’s a there is a an illustration by by officers ultimately elected members will take the final decision on uh that aspect okay thanks very much that’s all thanks thanks Peppa councelor Meek Craig

Thank you very much chair um uh I have a few questions um but I’ll I’ll pause in between just to make it easier for answering um so why would we not allow the the permit to be transferable um because obviously this would have a a a negative impact on

Some someone being in aemp teny for instance they moveing into their permanent H home or indeed if someone was decanted um and they had to maintain the Garden in their decant or uh another example could be home home swappers where someone’s swapping a home to address an under occupancy or over occupancy issue

So yeah be quite Keen to understand why we’re not looking at making it transferable here the The Proposal set out as as councelor Meek quite rightly set so um doesn’t propose that the permit is transferable that is uh consistent with the majority of what other councils are doing uh however I’m

I’m quite happy to have uh discussions around um example uh the council gave around temporary tencies for example um and there may be well be um um possibility that we could uh look look to that uh and discuss that with the the head of housing thank you very much um what

Happens if someone can’t afford to pay a150 fee um because 50 to some might not be a lot of money but to others it could be the difference of heating or eating uh for h a family so what happens in that situation ch if someone um doesn’t um wish to purchase a permit

Then um they would not be able to have their bin collected if they continue to present Garden waste uh along side the the food waste um there are alternatives uh set out in the report um such as composting as we me mentioned earlier and um taking

Um Garden waste along to a CRC site which of course are free of charge so so I’ll go back to to my my question what happens if someone can’t afford to pay a 1050 fee not that they don’t want to be in the scheme but they can’t afford to pay the one50

Fee CH I think essentially the answer is the same there are um Alternatives set out in in the paper to pay for a permit so so would we exclude people because they can’t afford the one off 50 fee because they’re a single parent family unemployed pensioners care experienced people all the people that’s

Identified and the in and the impact assessment form chair the prop Al is that we charge A50 fee with no concessions again consistent with majority uh of other other councils and the alternatives are set out in in the report and are also mentioned in the integrated impact assessment as potential mitigating

Factors measures so so in terms of the would would we consider allowing people to pay up that 50 fee chair from an Administration point of view that would be quite difficult uh if I compare it against someone booking out a bulky uplift for example uh you’re

Required to pay the full fee uh upfront and the proposal is that we would uh operate this scheme uh in the same the same way thank you very much um can you confirm if it’s um proposed £50 of just want to double check that I’ve R it

Right so it’s proposed £50 for up to two bins per household yeah the The Proposal is um £50 per household um we know that a number of households actually have more than uh two bins uh Brown bins um for those that currently do have more than two they are however restricted to two

Collections uh two bins being collected at any one time so for clarity the officer proposal is based on a perir household charge but no change to the service standard so you would continue to be able to put out two bins um elected members may wish to uh consider

Um whether we should charge uh an additional fee for subsequent uh bins uh as do the majority of other other councils thank you I’m I’m I’m nearly there sorry I just got a couple other questions so on table four page 8 um why has there been no other options presented other

Than the starting charge being from £50 um why why has there not been uh to allow us as elected members make an informed Choice uh on a potential L charge chair I think table for does set out that there are price sensitivities there and there a range of options

Starting from £50 £55 and £60 similarly um if you wish to consider um what decreasing the charge would be simple way of calculating it would be for every £10 adjustment we made to that charge that would be a difference of £280,000 per year if that helps that’s great

Thank you very much uh and and finally um will the service still be reduced for brown bin collections during PE periods chair of I’m understanding the question correctly and please correct me if I’m wrong the the the brown bin is a fortnit um schedule um per year uh for

Our council with the exception of the festive periods when we take the BR B beats off in order to um uh recover uh other other waste uh due to Bank hes Etc public hes so there would be no change no proposal to change that operation thank you thanks

Chair thanks Craig are there any other questions councelor Adamson Allison yeah thanks chair um I think Craig’s touched on most of what I was wanting to ask but I do still have a couple of questions one of the operator um models that’s being described here is that there’s no

Prata it’s on page six um prata payments if people buy their permit later on in the year so someone could potentially if the year is classes being 1 of May to 30th of April it means that somebody perhaps in March is only is going to be

Paying £50 and um not getting the same value for money as someone that perhaps bought it by back in May and um my second question I’m going to put the two together so that you can decide how you want to answer um on the risks and uncertainties it doesn’t mention um I

Mean there’s an assumption that what was it 56,000 people would be buying permits but what if people don’t buy them I see that there’s a campaign going on in Glasgow and it appears that although Glasgow has been in operation I don’t know how long for but only a fifth of

The the residents eligible took part in in in the scheme but now people are actively trying to refuse to join the scheme so that will have an impact um so you know that’s not been mentioned in risks and uncertainties so what would happen then Che there is a risk that the the

Targeted income that we’ve we’ve assumed isn’t isn’t met um as part of the the benchmarking we we’ve done um not just um across Scottish local authorities but wider a field our take up percentage of 40% is is thought achievable um uh a first year take up of 40 to

45% uh has been uh widely achieved um and and we’ve made our assumption at the the lower end of that in order to uh try and mitigate against that that risk so we would have reasonable confidence that um the 40% take up could be met in terms

Of the question around uh Pro rating uh is correct that the the scheme that officers have set out doesn’t Pro uh propose a pro rating um depending on what time of year you buy your permit again benchmarking uh suggest is that the majority of households who do buy uh

A permit uh Do It um at the start of the scheme going live and in our case that’ll just be before typical growing season for garden waste so we’d be hopeful that we the majority of customers would sign up pretty early on Allison could you switch off your

Mic is it done sorry I see two red lights across the chamber coun CER please done it’s me thank you um yeah thanks for that David uh so far um all based on assumptions here uh the income gener as this report uh reports is 1.15 million that’s based on 40% achievable

As you’re saying um so let’s let’s look at the costs for the FTE what is what will be the indicative cost for the fds over the 2E and the procurement of a perit supplier I don’t see any costs in here related to that at all is there costs here cost implications

Chair table five of the report sets out the estimated Staffing cost has been £110,000 a year and a parmit scheme has been £34,000 a year £34,000 a year D 34 yes okay so let’s take 220 and 254,000 less 1.5 million that’s probably what we’re looking at is that about right sh

The costings are set out in in table five yeah so yeah okay based on a 40% uptake thanks for that okay thank you sorry T po Tom please thank you manag to work us soon um weid a couple of questions for you if you don’t mind um just just going back

To um to the question in terms of low paid families is there any way that so somebody was stay in a counc house wanted to pay this £50 could have be incorporated into the rent for the year is that is that a provision that could be put in

Place thank you that’s something that we can discuss with because that would allow the the aspect of payment by installment so that’s something that could be consider then that would be a basic pay H over to the general fund to deal with that transactions something you can take

Consider we currently have a scheme where where where next Landing Countryside Services go in and cut grass for elderly residents in West Lan what would happen here would it be the council’s responsibility to take the grass away or would anybody on that home scheme need to have a

P chair again uh the proposal uh in front of panel members today does not include any uh concessions so all uh applicable households would be required to buy a permit if they wish to undertake take part in the scheme okay next question so am I right in

Thinking that to remove Garden waste is not a statutary service the council doesn’t need to do that here that is correct so if we completely removed collecting Garden waste and not charging for it what would the impact be on Staffing for that sh because our um Garden waste is

Collected as part of a comingo uh service that’s collected along with food and food collection is a statutory service then effectively we will continue to still have to collect a brown bin uh every every two weeks so um shouldn’t be any impact um from that okay and one final question in terms of

The the 1.15 million generated a year what how would that compare to full-time equivalent so so in terms of saving for the service if that was to pay wages what what saving would that make to to the service every year chair uh the equivalent of bringing

In a a net income of 1.5 million a year would be the equivalent of 36 waste collection operative full-time equivalent posts and as part of additional context we currently have 113 FTE waste collection posts thank you car had one question around the other 16 councils that you’re benchmarking

Against do you have data on whether or not they collect their garden and food waste separately at the moment here I do and I’d be happy to uh share that information with panel members that’s than because because yeah I mean what what you were talking about before in terms of operatives having to

Pippa was saying about operatives having to open extra bins and the hassle of that I just wonder whether that would take away some of to be collected separately might take away some of the issues going back to what we had before with the green bins sorry could I just clarify on page

10 does that not answer Carl’s question Carl’s question a bit deeper sure you’re correct it does inde page 10 car the paper it lists all the authorities basis of the charge how G and waste is collected and various exemptions so just for clarification I think unless I’m misunderstanding your

Question but I think clarification is in the paper yeah so I guess my question is are is it going to make it simpler to be implemented or not to have separate bins again for food and garden waste chair at this moment in time there is no proposal from the council to

Separate the collection of garden and food waste are there any other questions are there any comments P yeah I’d like to make a comment on concessions and I’m looking at the page 10 and we don’t have any concessions David has said there’s no concessions now people with two brown

Bins are only paying 50 people the low income who can’t afford it will be forced to pay for or our means now the two bins for £50 that sounds like a concession to me now why are we giving that to people who two BS bigger houses larger grass

Areas and I’ll be I’ll be blunt probably a bigger income than most folk in missan yet people in the lower scales are getting punished here and to be quite honest I think that’s disgraceful thanks councel me Craig thank you very much chair um I’ve heard uh today uh the word consistency

Consistency with other local authorities getting mentioned in a few times for me I’m not concerned about consistency with other local authorities I’m concerned what happens here in West Lan um and I am really concerned the impact that this oneoff charge is going to have on lower income families and lower income

Households um and um I’m certainly uh it’s positive to hear that we’re that we could consider uh putting it in with the rent H to allow people to pay it up rather than that oneof uh charge that would have a huge impact on on households um so so certainly a I would

Urge that we we need to consider all this and a and and definitely look at the transferability of the permits and in the instances that I spoke about in my question um because again it’s not somebody’s fault just because they’re an attempt tency that H the end of witer

Forever home that they’re having to be penalized by buying another permit um or on the other cases so um I think I think we just need to look at it a bit further um before we actually implement it thank you thanks Craig CHR thank you yeah I think some really

Valid points for consideration have been raised today particularly the transferability of permits raised by both um councelor Meek and councelor Adamson asking about the the pro element um and also the ability to to pay up in effect a via rent um I think it’s absolutely lamentable that we’re having to think about this

And it does come back to the underfunding of the local Authority by the Scottish government and we are no different from any other local Authority in Scotland we’re all having to look at the same things that if we were adequately funded we wouldn’t have to consider um people are struggling at the

Moment they have been for some time and they feel as if they’re paying more and getting less likewise councils feel as if they are being asked to do more indeed they are routinely been asked to do more to deliver more services on behalf of the Scottish government but

They’re getting less funding for it now I can’t go to the shops today and buy the same amount of food that I could 3 years ago you know and it’s the same with the council we can’t with the rising costs across the board councils can’t deliver even the same

Services that used to within the same fund and envelope we need more resources and it’s just absolutely deplorable that we’re having to think about charging residents more and for services that they previously got for free and that they currently get for free um because we have no other option when you’ve got

Budget gaps I mean as is set out in D1 it was previously reported that we had a budget Gap over four years of 36.2 million every time we commented to the chamber the figures seem to rise even more you know and now we’re looking at after savings um of continued gaps of up

To 11.6 million to 2728 where do we find that money from things just don’t seem to be getting any better um so again it’s just very sad that we’re in this position and having a look at these charges PE okay I think the amount that we raised is

Unrealistic and very optimistic due to the potential uptake and the number of brown bins that are actually being used at the moment you also have to take into account bringing this in as you have it is very unpopular and it’s being seen as yet another charge on top of the council tax

We need to have a better strategy that brings people along with us not imposing how Waste Services are implemented without consult consultation with communities thanks Peppa coun Smith Veronica yeah it was just to note that this proposal here is part of the budget process um so the SMP group we note the

Contents of this report uh but will be making a group decision in due course as part of that process if you were able to minute that thank you not quite sure if party business is part of the paper um Veronica but we know what you say um Doner Pollock

Please thanks sh just to note that for Trade union point of view we are in support of this proposal as a waste service worker um I’ve been involved in lots of cuts across the service um in the last 21 years since I’ve worked in it um and any income that can be

Generated for non- statut services which helps to protect jobs must be looked at I do get the points about the concessions and I think that’s something that has to be looked at that but in the mean we’re supportive of this proposal thanks Tom councelor Adamson

Alison yeah thank you um I just want to summarize in saying that the the type of person who uses a a brown bin is someone who takes a pride in their Garden looks after the immediate vicinity outside of their houses and they take a pride in their

Community and and to penalize them and asking them to pay for something if they don’t have the income to cover that kind of payment without giving them an opportunity to pay for it pay pay it up they may live in a a b house so they can’t do it through their

Council house rent they may be only staying for a few months they’re not going to be staying permanently in in the house so they want to tidy up the area and I just feel this is um it’s like a penalty it’s not a huge amount of money

For a lot of people but for some people it’s a step too far and we have to be able to accommodate everyone we have to take everyone into consideration but to my mind the people who are going to be affected the most are most definitely the elderly who take a pride in their

Garden and um a lot of um perhaps single parents who find peace and solace in gardening and it’s something that we have to think very very carefully about we need to offer options and um make it easier for people thank you thanks Alison coun CER Dan no that’s it thank you yeah thanks

For that um yeah uh I guess in summary uh I agree with a lot of what uh councilor Sullivan said about Rising costs h i too go to the supermarket in dismay when I come out and have to pay the checkouts um however H these are

Obviously partly to do with the cost of living and partly to do with brexit um it was only announced yesterday that the further increase in tariffs for imports is going to further H uh increase prices at the supermarket so H but you know the Jacob bries mugs and the Boris Johnson’s

Of this world said that wasn’t going to happen but it has and it will um I agree uh everybody’s struggling because you know um constantly the Scottish government gets land blasted but it’s pretty obvious we know where the funding for the Scottish government comes from

So let’s know bit about the bush I too would not like to see this charge imposed I too think that the should have more Innovative and imaginative ways to increase income and there are some um and it would be as Kiren said lamentable if we had to impose this charge on people thank

You any any other comments no colleagues I stated out in the in the paper this this proposal was previously presented last year and rejected but since then the council’s financial situation has deteriorated um not helped by the first Minister’s announcement of a fully funded council tax freeze which it isn’t

And it’s quite clear it isn’t any independent Observer makes that point so officers were instructed to come back with how we can try and have a balanced budget and surprise surprise they came back with a previous proposal which the duty DED B to do that is their professional

Advice but I think in the situation where people in West Lan are getting upset and there is criticism off it I can only go back to the paper that lists all the councils which have already introduced us so in some respects we’re slow the in we’re last of the feast we

Have not supported this typee of measure where other councils have but no criticism of them for doing that that’s what they were alled to do I have to say um and this may well be an S&P kicking session that you don’t like to because it’s the Scottish

Government who directly fund us where it where that money comes from decisions are made in Edinburgh but the impact on was Lo then we can’t disguise that fact but when you look down the authorities who’ve introduced it the majority are SNP minority councils or whatever they’re part of the administration so

It’s not something which hasn’t been done elsewhere and hasn’t been done elsewhere by political parties of a different persuasion to this Council so the evidence is there however Scottish government can easily help us resolve these problems if it is a fully funded council tax frees give us the full

Funding not a figure which they deem to be fully funding when it’s quite clear and other local authorities it doesn’t meet their budgetary needs um but also as well they’re looking at the circular economy uh and if the count if Scottish government want a free model uh they would have to compensate

Council so put it up elsewhere our roads in this occasion lead to Edinburgh they they have imposed terms and conditions on councils so now they are funded and unfortunately these are the measures which I certainly when I was first elected didn’t think I would be considering as a counselor an elected

Member and not having the decision to say yes or no because the financial constraints are that bad that in some respects what are the other options so simply I would ask that we note the paper as it currently stands and ask officers to look at the comments which

Have been made around the chamber today to see the practicalities of these or otherwise um and I think that would conclude the discussion on this paper which takes us to item 13 work plan um can we note the work plan or are there any others Dan you’re not in the paper we’re not

Making a decision either way today I think Veronica ask could that be minuted please thank you we’re we’re not making any decision direct yeah that’s what I’m asking what I’m saying is it’s to not the paper as a you’re not agreeing that’s fine thank

There is no if we were going to agree it we have to be a recommendation to take it to the council executive or wherever this is the paper that’s been submitted for scrutiny and all I’m putting forward is the recommendation is has set out to not the paper sorry I was just getting

Confused cuz there is there is um text in it that basically says it’s going to be implemented in May or maybe I read that wrong well respect it’s not for officers to make that decision and that may will be a MPE no stronger than that but we are not

In part here today or been asked today to toe for implementation okay the work plan can we agree the work plan don’t see any any additions so I’ll conclude the meeting thank you very much for your Attendance