For further information, visit: https://democracy.cambridge.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=159&MId=4273&Ver=4
Everybody this is the the strategy and resources Committee of cry city council I am Richard Robertson I’m the chair of this meeting can I uh first welcome you to our meeting and have we got any apologies for absence we do so we’ll we’ll call a roll call of
Them the counsel’s here I think just to check on who is everybody here so can you say if you’re here then Council aent councel Bennett ah the system’s not working at the moment we’ll come back to you that’s not work oh there is working now yes those of you who have not turned
Your mics on yet do please do so councel pick too many mic Council go yeah councilor Griffin present councelor Holloway present councelor Shield present Council young present thank you I think that one’s still warming up right um know we need to know anybody’s got any Declarations of interests C agent member of Cambridge
Cycling campaign chair thank you anybody else Council Bennett in relation to item eight I am a supporter of safe honey Hill right thank you right if any other decorations need to be made at any time do do so before the item uh now we have the minutes of the meeting in
November on page five can I see if those are acceptable all those in favor please Show that’s unanimous I think thank you right now we move on to public questions we have three which have been published and our new procedure is that we accept them as having been read and answer them one after another so the first one is from Wendy BL is Wendy here
Online online okay thank you she may introduce yourself so what when did you want to say hello first oh hi hi everybody and uh good to be here right associations ask for T Tim to respond to I think is it to respond to the question so who’s who is responding to
The question number one I didn’t hear that okay then bin if you could answer that that be very grateful thank you okay so [Applause] um we’re not reading out the question the questions assumed to be read am I right chair yeah okay so thank you for
Your question I hope that you feel more reassured after reading this report which details how the public and stakeholders can engage and I hope that you’re able to attend the Civic quarter liaison group on Wednesday there is a separate meeting with Market Traders the same day um note that this committee is
Being asked to approve the next steps in the design of the Civic quarter for 1.45 million not for the the full refurbishment or for the 20 million whilst Cambridge bid uh will be a key stakeholder in this the council Le Civic quarter project is separate from the work being undertaken to attract
Investment the objectives for the council are outlined in the report these are to create a more attractive Central Cambridge destination that will increase visitor numbers for the market corn exchange and businesses in the area to make long-term savings to help ensure Frontline Council services are sustainable by cutting operational costs
And increasing Revenue stream and three to contribute to the council’s Target of being Net Zero by 2030 thank you hello thank you when do you have any supplementary yes yes I do reach sorry can you hear me yes canar can hear me proba okay so um I
Did have a supplementary question at the last meeting in which I got a question today but I did have a supplementary question at the last meeting in which I did quote what the um chief executive Cambridge bid said to Cambridge uh Market stakeholders at the last previous
Meeting which was the Civic the quote Civic V vision for the city center was going to be uh commercially driven now I don’t necessarily have a problem with commercially driven but obviously um residents were concerned that they hadn’t had any input into that uh the notion of what is commercially driven
Etc so because everything came out of the blue so that’s my supplementary question to last week’s meeting last last the last meeting which I haven’t had an answer about but I actually do have a specific uh question for today’s meeting which is is um why was a report
Which is marked as having been in the public domain for two years included in the restricted pink pages and not the public section until councelor bck complained and what went wrong and will the council commit to re-evaluating reports and releasing the any other non-confidential information from the
Pink Pages please that would be great if you could do that thank you Ben do you’d like to answer those please yes certainly um there there are a number of reasons why papers may be confidential and the uh in accordance with paragraph 10.4 of shedule 12a of the Local
Government Act 1972 councils are allowed to do that particularly if it relat to the financial or business Affairs of a particular organization and of the council and this particular particular instance in regarding appendix one a shorten version has been released but the full version has been withheld on the basis contains commercially
Sensitive information intellectual property that could be advantageous to biders in a procurement process this information is not publicly available from statutory registers of information kept in respect of certain companies and Charities it is considered that since this information was obtained through a procurement exercise that this better
May wish to be part of a future design consortia in the proposed procurement for the Civic quarter then it is not in the public interest to disclose this information at this point in time just just a quick cultural event could we have information about the working cultural
Event I’m sorry we we can’t take a continuing question ansers session on this I ask you to take that that the officers offline yes you very much thank you move on to question two from Anthony carpon over there who’s in the presence in the chamber again if we’re going to assume the the
Um the the question has been read because it was presented in advance wait anon’s just going to move to the right Point can introduce himself yes would you like to introduce yourself and I hope that microphone’s on we are on uh good evening ladies and gentlemen good evening councilors Anthony car and I’m
Just a local historian and local commentator I guess okay who would like is Ben Simon Simon executive councel s Smith is going to answer this one thank thank you for your question uh the the point you raised are very interesting and I am a student of all of
Your history uh documents and I find them compelling reading so thank you for what you do the contribution you make to Civil Society in the city um so I’ll make sure that uh the points you’ve made are captured and passed on to the winning biders the heritage of the Civic
Quar is very important to this city and the report makes it clear that the heritage of the three Civic spaces must be preserved and fit for purpose for the next 100 years the approach we’re taking is a stepbystep approach so that the council can make an informed decision
Whether the further expenditure at a time when Council finances are stretched this committee has been asked to approve an expenditure of 1.45 million to procure design consult here and to have a report in November 24 on recommended next steps it’d be a wonderful aspiration to complete the refurbishment of the Guild
Hall in time for Flora Ada K’s meral cenery and I hope in November we’ll be able to provide Clarity on the next steps thank you Anthony would you like to add to that yes uh thank you councelor Smith um the printouts that I’ve um handed out to all of the
Counselors mainly are links from my public question they also include um the Cambridge Leisure strategy 1996 2000 which I found in the Cambridge collection um which I hope will allow counselors and also the public to have a look at and make comparisons between um what life was like when I was a teenager
Growing up here versus now and kind of like do a um kind of like a progress check um I’ve included um in the print outs my various suggestions on how for example this chamber could be lifted up to the roof to create a new theater
Space that could be handed out to um or sorry hired out to the private sector um but also I’m kind of mindful that um the issue of the concert hall will always come back ditto the swimming pool with that in mind um and linking to what um the former Vice Chancellor Sur Iva
Jennings promised the city back in 1962 can the mayor convene a meeting with the vice Chancellor and Masters and presidents of the colleges to discuss how to deliver on surer Jennings commitment um when he was vice Chancellor of the University of Cambridge to fund half of the cost of a
Brand new concert hall not um as that will then give the extra flexibility for the corn exchange um options thank you well that that was a question for the mayor sorry that was a question for the mayor am I correct for the mayor well I I’m kind of made a request through
Yeah you councelor but I’m also aware that the mayor is here in a committee capacity um but I don’t want to throw her okay so obviously policy and strategies and finances have have moved on somewhat since that since that time um and we’ve got some very large developments emerging in in in Cambridge
As you as you know and uh one of the developers as me obviously still at conceptual stage is is talking floating the idea of a new concert hall for the city so I think we just have to be patient and wait to see whether that transpires but um I think a city the
Size of Cambridge could do with with a a major concer Concert Hall whether it’s deliverable or not is another matter but that doesn’t mean that we preclude exploring It And discussing the feasibility ability of it thank you right now we’re going to move on to question three now Katie Preston has not
In the room I think is she Preston oh Jord hello sorry I didn’t see you John Preston is here okay so again would you like to introduce yourself John thank you chair and first of all thank you very much for allowing this late question my wife and I are CI long-term
Citizens of Cambridge we use the market two or three times a week we’ve regularly been to events in the corn exchange and events and meetings here in the Guild Hall including the meeting two years ago in March 2022 where we asked questions in relation to the report that’s referenced
Here we’re also part of the Cambridge Market Community we regularly meet with Market Traders and Shoppers and others so very much involved in the issues under discussion thank you well your question is quite a long one it’s been taken as red so uh I’ll invite either executive counselor
Or you want so um thank thank you John for your for your question uh I welcome your comment about widening the scope of the of the brief initial consultation with Market Traders and the market squ the a group took place in 2021 and an updated Vision was approved by the environment and Community
Scrutiny Committee in May 2022 for the proposed improvements of the Market Square so these Concept Designs together with the proposed vision statement formed the basis of a 2021 public consultation which tracted over a thousand responses and reflecting the importance of the Market Square at the Heart of the
City the concerns from Market Traders about proposed demountable stores and noted and these will be passed on to the winning design Consortium opposers have written a market Traders and stakehold have written to Market Traders and stakeholders inviting them to a Civic or to the aison group meeting on Wednesday
The 31st this month with a separate meeting to be held with the market Traders some Market Traders have already been in touch and officers have met them to discuss their questions the engagement plan highlights how Market Traders will be consulted once the design consulate has been appointed and
I think this what I’ve just said really reflects our whole approach to these these um the these proposals and the development of them is that there will be an extensive engagement consultation process um all of these buildings are important to everybody in the city and outside the city come to that and I
Think a lot of people want to have their say and we are listening and we’re engaging them and people and we’re very happy to hear what people have to say and no doubt some elements of this are going to be controversial some will be hated some Will Be Loved but as long as
Everybody’s been able to express have their voice heard um that is the main thing that we need to do during this development process no decisions have been made as yet so whatever what we do decide will be informed by the VC studies and what people have to say thank
You do you wish to follow that up Sean thank you two things one very basic one the report talks about almost maintenance of the market market in its current form I would just ask you counselors to have a look at the Way East Cambria District Council promote elely market and the way
They show who’s going to be trading on any particular day I think that highlights something that could very easily be achieved here and very actively promote the market in a way that isn’t happening at the moment then looking more broadly and responding to the answer I’ve just
Had the big challenge you’ve got here is incredible range of Demands on a limited space both in the Market Square and in the two buildings yes they may seem big but the overall challenge is to accommodate a great number of competing activities and that is what sadly the
Feasibility work that was carried out back in 2021 did not fully tackle I think the moment you start looking at the range of potential activities and how they would work over 24hour under period and then over a week in terms of setting up dismantling how you would accommodate it requires a more in-depth
Level of study than has been carried out so far and it needs all the parties involved to be there at the same time so I’m a bit concerned that the meeting on Wednesday to which I’ll be coming there’ll be separate meetings for the Traders and then for the market liaison
Group so this all depends on getting the brief right and getting all the factors involved then you have the best chance of a good solution thank you Simon um was well made and and and noted um that is the um there a balance that has to be struck and all stakeholders need
To be content with the with the outcome thank you thank you that ends the public questions so we’ll move on to item five she’s a cambri and petb combined Authority update now I’m going to ask C Anna Smith the who our representative on the combined Authority board to present the
The report we also have with us Nick Bell on the uh online that is I don’t if you’d like to say say hello to us Nick before we get started yes can you all hear me yes could you introduce yourself your title I will do thank you so um so good
Evening so so my name is Nick Bell I’m the executive director for resources and performance at the combined Authority um and that rule entails a wide range of responsibilities including things like Finance legal HR uh procurement and more generally issues such as the greatest selfies Net Zero Hub and our Improvement
Program my background is as a qualified accountant I spent 22 years in local government before then spending a roughly a decade in the private and the charitable sector after that um and then before starting with the combined Authority in this current role back in February last year um and possibly just
Worth mentioning as well as introduction that I know camb City very very well over the years having lived there for a number of years um quite a few years ago um and having worked for cambri County C Council many years ago as well I’m very happy to answer any questions that the
Committee may have thank you right Anna would you like to present your the report thank you and I will be um incredibly brief because I know we have a lot of items that we wish to discuss this evening so I want to leave as much time as possible for questions on this
Item um I guess the key thing to note is that the combin authority board meeting is on Wednesday and papers um have been published and you will all hopefully have access to those online um that board meeting is going to include several items of particular interest for Cambridge there are several items of
Interest for Cambridge in the budget and also items of interest for Cambridge in the mayor’s budget including the um bus routes that are proposed to be funded as part of the precept if the precept is passed and I know that members of this committee will probably be particular L
Interested to note that the restoration of our direct link from histon road to Aden Brooks is on the list of routs to be um for detail plans to be worked up but there are also um proposals for things like a new orbital bus route and looking at how some of the rots for
Students who attend six form or further education College in the city but currently do not have a good bus service may be served as well so there is plenty there of interest for Cambridge um we have also been doing a lot of work on moving forward on bus reform and I
Particularly by the way want to say thank you to councelor Holloway who is also our reserve on overview and scrutiny committee and so this is his second um his second shot today at scrutinizing some of these topics on the combined Authority papers so thank you councilor hway particularly for that um
But I will leave it there I’m very happy to answer questions but we do also have neck Bell with us this was on the basis of the last meeting but one where we had Rob Bridge with us and I think that was certainly had comments from various
Members of the committee that that was a very helpful thing to connect us as a city more closely to some of the offices at the combined authorities so we felt given that we have the big budget meeting coming up on Wednesday it would be a good opportunity for us all to meet
Nick and to be able to ask ask him questions too so I think with that I will stop and councelor Robertson over to you for any questions that people might like to ask right can I see any questions councelor B thanks chair I have um a series of
Questions about um the transport aspects of the combined Authority um and perhaps I’ll ask all of the questions and they could be um sort of itemized in the response um the first was and I have raised this before um got I got a good answer but now we’re so close it’s quite
Important I think to have another conf confirmation from um from Nick um that the the bus subsidies the 100,000 that it’s proposed to take out of our own budget um indeed are uh still present and correct in the draft budget ready for approval by the combined Authority
Later this week that was the first question um the the second one um I understood from when I asked the question before about those services and that subsidy um I was assured that the funding from the combine Authority was not coming from the um proposed increased precept um but was coming from existing
Resources which um is good to know um but I would wondered if it could be explained conceptually what is the difference between the services that are going to be subsidized from existing resources what’s the difference between them and services that are proposed to be subsidized from from the precept it
Would be quite interesting to know how that that separation was was made um the the third question um so the um indeed I have noted the uh the listed um Services which um could be um created um or improved through the the raising of the Marl
Precept uh and I would like to welcome them in general it’s it’s good to see it’s positive um particularly Keen um and interested to see the um the proposed um creation of an orbital Route Around camebridge um for people who don’t need to go to the center not going
To the center um that seems a very positive thing um I just um I suppose to my mind what was missing was um um Improvement to the park and ride in particular um it would have been good to see extension in hours of the park and
Rides um into Cambridge which is quite a barrier for people some people to use them when they don’t know what time they’re going to need to go home um and also a more general question um whilst I welcome the fact that we’re at last being positive about about the um the
Bus Network I’m just I’m just wondered wondered how um how we how we can answer the question how are we going to make sure that these new or extra Services aren’t going to be very cost ineffective um because the the new Services uh are still pretty likely to be as unreliable
As the old ones um because they will still get held up in the congestion and I wondered what is the combined authorities thinking about how this this this new wave of subsidy isn’t going to be um significantly wasted or ineffective because people aren’t going to see those Services as sufficiently
Reliable that’s and the final question um which I’m I’m sneaking because it’s not about the budget The combin Authority it’s about the um the electric buses which the combined Authority um amongst other organizations um help to finance income gridge and it’s really wonderful to see um the
Electric Fleet on the park and ride now um but um I I I wanted to make the observation that the park and ride previously had I think the most efficient diesel operated uh buses um operating it before they were the it’s Euro markv if I’m not mistaken um significantly more um or more
Um beneficial less harmful to the comp to to the environment um than lower grade diesel buses it seems that those buses have disappeared and so rather than replacing the really dirty buses lower down the hierarchy um which one would have hoped would have happened it seemed that they’ve been taken somewhere
Else entirely and so although we’ve made a gain by replacing the top diesels by Electric which is a definitely important gain it’s just a shame that we haven’t contractually required Stage Coach to retain the ones they replaced and displace the really dirty ones at the bottom end and I’m just sort of
Surprised that if that’s the case we didn’t stop that happening through contracts with Stage Coach thank you thank you Al you’re responding yeah what what I suggest um if it’s okay with with you Nick is if if I go through some answers first and then if you want to
Fill in on anything or is anything you particularly want to jump in on please please do that um luckily councelor bi I’m a fast typist so I think I’ve got all those notes um down there I think just to put us a a wrap around with this
We are currently running of course under um the nonregulated network system we don’t yet have um public control of the entire bus Network and that does put some constraints around what we can and can’t do I should have said in my introduction that um I was I had the
Honor of chairing The Tick committee which the transport and infrastructure committee which agreed unanimously to recommend in principle to go to consultation on bus franchising um so to recommend to the board to make that decision in due course so that was quite an exciting moment um so in terms of the bus
Companies subsidies yes they’re still there on the um on the budget um the difference between these and the precept suggestions it’s really just a case there were some things that were already in the system that we had already budgeted for and can budget for with or without the precept and there
Are some things that if we want to do more to not only I mean last year the precept was really around saving 23 18 plus 5 routs that were under threat this is about securing and to an extent extending and improving the network so there are some bus routes that were
Already in place this was one of them but the precept is the list that you see on the papers I can’t actually have the page number in front of me here but they on the preset papers so it’s just a which partt does it go into basically
Um I think in terms of Park and rides I’d need to come back to you with some of the specific details on that um part of the issue with what we can as a combined author currently fund links into the ability to only fund um things that are not seen as competitive routs
Um some of that changes if we’re able to um take greater control of the network um the other thing to say is that what is currently noted as roots to pursue doesn’t um doesn’t kind of fulfill form the end of the process it’s part of a process so were more funding
To become available in the future we could look at other things as well and I think that’s that’s really important to remember the other thing that I know our transport team will be very keen to point out is that they will do due diligence on all the routes that are
Listed which also links slightly to your questions around reliability and cost cost efficiency if it turns out and the work of that there is some money left that also allows for other decisions to be made that are additional to the list that’s been put forward um congestion nothing we have
Or very little that we have in these proposals is about tackling that issue of congestion if I’m honest and I wouldn’t want to make those claims I think some of those things will help a bit I would really hope that the orbital route would help because if we can get
People around the edge of the City without having to keep coming in it might be supportive some of the roots I I know from my own experience at teaching in the p in six from colleges a lot of students were learning to drive on Farmland near where they lived and
The second they turned 17 they were Tak their driving test and coming in because the buses just weren’t supporting them so if we can get some of those routes right it might have an impact on congest a little bit as well so some of these things may have an
Impact but these are not sold as something that will um be the main solution to the congestion issue and from that point of view absolutely the officers will need to look at ensuring that services that are proposed and are worked up are not just going to sit in
Traffic behind the next bus so a lot of these you’ll see a new routes during peak times and some of them where they are about improving frequency are around um out of peak frequencies which again wouldn’t be affected in the same way so I think this is really exciting and
There’s a lot of work being done this is not a cure Rule and the proposed solution that the greater cranbridge partnership had consulted on for congestion is isn’t something that has been taken through at this point so I think all of us and I know this is something that councelor Davey in his
Role as our City’s representative on the gcp is actively discussing with other Representatives across the gcp because there are still discussions that have to be had on that electric buses I can’t give you the answer to where the buses has gone I would I would love to find
Out though so I will try and find out and get that tabled via the officers as an addendum to this um set of minutes Nick is there anything I’ve missed that I ought to add in there I maybe just add a couple of things if that’s all right
Um the first of which is in relation to the um bus subsid of 100,000s that we picked up um absolutely you you’re right caner Smith in relation to that answer but also I think just worth noting that what we tried to do is existing routes which were part of the bus Network
Review and of course those buses in C ones we picking up the £100,000 of were existing ones we’ve tried to pick up through our own existing resources whereas the precept is very much looking at either new routs or more frequent services on existing routes so there’s that differential if I may through that
And then the other one just to add to your comments in relation to congestion which we absolutely correct um the other thing that we’re looking to do because I believe that um Council B was talking also about reliability more generally is to try and ensure that we’re putting in
More Focus around supporting the bus operators with driver training so that they actually have sufficient drivers as well to be able to run the new routes in the future so we’re working with them closely to enable that to happen so just those two those two points thank
You yeah thank you those those are really helpful and there are very frequent meetings of bus operators which is is very useful and and a lot of interesting um things come out of that that we can work on together so thank you Nick that’s really helpful I would
Just point out as well well that there has been quite a lot of discussion around um cost efficiency of of the route 7A it’s been in the press a lot that route is was subject to the bus Network review and will not be moving forward in its current form but in a in
A different form which should be more efficient because the idea is to work that together with a um home to school transport route which should be much more cost effective and I do find it um rather disappointing that there are voices not I hasten to add in this
Chamber which keep talking about the old 7A which actually was subject to a network review and the changes have already been programmed and can be seen very clearly in the public domain and that is that is disappointing thank you further questions Council Bennett thank you chair and thank you
Anna for coming to sorry thank you counselor Anna Smith for coming out to us and breathing us and bringing the combined Authority a little way out of the Shadows that our residents believe you reside in I have a couple of questions I’d like to repeat from last time because they didn’t get answered
Um the first is on franchising which obviously requires a more um stable and uh larger source of funds than an additional 36 pounds of meril precept um I asked what sources of funding were being considered to support fin to support and finance franchising I also asked who
The um auditor would be for your franchising being beard because I think that’s really quite important considering there seems to be um a perception in some quarters that we are all marking our own homework and I think some reassurance on that point would be very welcome I also say that it doesn’t look
Good if a chief executive is not aware of something so major as the name of that independent auditor um and also I’d like to end by saying that we are glad to see the bus precept coming forward we do recognize that not everything can be covered on that precept so we particularly welcome
The emphasis on Rural school routs and orbital roots and we’re looking forward to seeing what comes out of that respond yeah sorry I’m just foring my notes there um so our what I will do for most of this is our pastor Nick in the first instance because um because the
Auditor is still working I need to make sure that I don’t accidentally put something into the public domain that shouldn’t be there so Nick I think will be able to answer on that and then I’ll pick up anything at the end I just wanted to thank you for your comments
And and to point out that whilst off often when it comes to being in the Press I get put over as Nick’s deputy and clearly I am Nick deputy and that’s an important part of what I do I am also the Cambridge City Council representative on the board and it is my
Job to be at things like this and to answer any questions that people have and I’m always happy to answer questions in between um these meetings as well it’s really really important that I stand up for Cambridge on those board meetings and stand up for what you want
Me to be asking so thank you for that and I wanted to acknowledge that Nick I think if I pass to you in the first instance to make sure that I’m make sure that we’re answering in terms of what’s in the public domain that would be really
Helpful awesome very very happy to do that so some um so in terms of who we’re using as the Auditors that is actually in the public domain now and was reported to our transport and infrastructure committee um earlier on this this month it’s um an organization called Grant Fon um they’re well known
Firm of audit is one of the larger ones in the UK and they’re very experienced in doing similar work um in other combined authorities as well um so they do have that Independence that size that capability that credibility as well to help with that um and then Council
Bennett’s other questions I believe in relation to the sources of funding um we’re looking at a very very wide range initially of sorted of funding but we’ve narrowed that down to the ones that we can potentially lever or control so in the first instance we’ll be looking at
Options um to see if we can secure further Government funding um through things like our bus service improvement program Grant whove had a significant amount of through this year we’re looking at options around that one um we’ll be looking at options as well about potentially borrowing um to fund
Our capital investment in things like bus stops and bus Depots um again at the moment we haven’t done any borrowing as a combined Authority since we set up in 2017 but it is within our powers to do so should be require to do that um we will look at
The transport Levy um which is the funds that are provided to us via the two highways author trans transport authorities of cambri County Council and Pet City Council and of course we look at the precept as well that as being the initial things that are within our gift
Um or that we can actually potentially leave her through we’ll look at wider sources as well later one of the biggest potential sources of funding would be if we could persuade central government to allow us to keep all of the business rates across the cambri and Peterburg
Area in the way that most of our male combined authorities can that would give us around about an extra 60 million pounds per year so that’s one of the longer term areas we’re looking at potentially financing as well thank you that’s I believe that’s answer your
Question so I’ll pass you over back to caner Smith May thank you and I think there’s been a lot of discussion around um bus reform in the last couple of years and I I think it can be easy to make the assumption that there is a certain
Amount of money that you need for bus reform and if you don’t have that you can’t reform and in practice it’s a sliding scale and quite a lot of the things that you can do around reforming our bus Network for example through franchising and I’m being very careful how I phrase things
Here because I’m very aware of not wanting to get into predetermination situation but some of the things that franchising will offer which is control of the network the ability to through ticket the ability to set fairs the ability to run competitive Roots those things do not necessarily require having
To have a hugely expanded Network in order to do that so the money that goes into a franchise system slightly depends on the kind of franchise system you want out of the other end so part of the issue around um funding becomes well how long do you
Want the piece of string to be and then how do we measure it so but there is a lot of very helpful due diligence work being done by our officers at the moment on this well thank you for a very helpful reply and I can’t say anything rude about my for former
Employer councelor dve you wanted to say something yeah very briefly to pick up on um councelor benett question and Anna’s response sorry councelor Smith’s response is just to reinforce councelor Smith is not a shadowy individual for from it and I think one of the things i’ want to
Emphasize is we must make the most of cancor Smith’s involvement in the cpca and I would encourage as as councilor Smith said please get in touch outside this is a real bonus for us to have Council Smith there and likewise about the gcp um we should be accountable for our
Actions at the gcp and here’s the obvious time to do it and as such if you have questions outside of meetings please get in touch counc right those the questions I can present one um I believe that the combined Authority board later this week is going to consider amongst
Other things giving a grant to the city council in relation to this our Civic quarter could you perhaps explain what that might be used for you I think I might give Nick the fun of answering this one first then I’ll come in at the end of
It absolutely so some um so as part of the budget proposals that are going to The comound Authority board on Wednesday this week um it does include um two specific actually funding um Capital schemes for cambis city um one of which relates to potential work um around the cultural quarter covering the market
Market Square in the Guild Hall and that would be for one and A5 million pound to match fund some of the existing funding that I believe the city council has in relation to that and that will be um you usable by the city council to say move
It plans forward to to develop that work um and the second one would be3 million pound as well for further work to be done around the Cambridge um uh Junction area um to create a um hopefully a creative Industries hope there um to encourage U people involved in the creative Industries particularly those
Setting up and entrepreneurs um to be able to become involved more in that so they’re two of the two of the relatively larger um films that are going through um the um hopefully the proposed and hopefully be approved at the combiner authority board um on Wednesday this
This week happy to answer any more questions but I think that that picks up the the issue that you raised there that’s very welcome to hear I just hope that’s a agreed later this week any further questions no right thank you very much Anna and thank you very much Nick for joining us
Tonight and we’ll carry on with our business now thank you thank you very much delighted to to be here thank you right we’ll move on to item six which is the corporate policy and Partnerships group design program and Chief Operating Officer Jane Wilson I think you’re going to introduce this yes thank you
Chair so okay to start please go ahead so the purpose of this report is to bring for scrutiny the proposed framework for a new corporate Hub this isn’t always seen as the most obviously exciting part of the council but it is crucial to its effective and efficient operation prior to the Senior Management
Review last year we did not have a a corporate group what we had was a series of separate corporate functions many if not all of which were performing reasonably well but they were all performing quite independently um of each other and the work since the re the
Restructure has to be be has been to consider how we best organize our corporate functions into a cerent hole so um we’ve had to do that whilst ensuring that all of the existing activities of the hope Contin to be delivered the proposed Hub as you see from the report contains and includes
Core functionality around areas such as Finance people risk areas where we really can’t afford to drop the ball so um first of all I’d like to say thank you to my teams who have all been contributing to this work whil continuing to deliver on their day
Jobs the goal of the change we want to make is to provide a seamless easy to use and simple to access corporate Hub with explicit accountabilities and responsibilities both for the Hub and for the spokes which is in simple terms anyone using a corporate Hub service whether that’s an individual team
Leadership team others who use those services and the example I’ve given in the paper um is a very simple one but it’s the recruitment of a new member of Staff it’s basic but it’s vital at the moment it’s quite complex process um for the recruiting manager who has to
Individually contact all of the corporate Hub Services there is really no need for it to be like that we can make this a much more seamless painless and effective process for our staff and I hope that example illustrates how our corporate functions can work together to ensure teams across
The council are supported to work effectively and efficiently we want to remove remove duplication plug gaps and provide a basis solid basis for delivery um and particularly um in these more uncertain times to make sure that teams are able to manage uh future and ongoing change to deliver on the right outcomes
For the city I’m happy to take any questions members have now and if the recommendation is agreed and as we take this piece of work forward to make sure that members are briefed on progress and the recommendations are to approve the framework and to delegate the detailed operation designed to myself as
Chief Operating Officer following of course the council’s organizational change policy which does involve consultation thank you thank you questions from councelor Vic please uh chair um I think this is really um good and positive um I had a couple of questions which um like to sort of um add to that um
General support um one is um uh the the report emphasizes a very client um orientated um corporate Group which um is obviously um a very important thing um and um kind of good for the the service departments who who need that Ro um but in my experience a
Corporate function also needs to have at some level um a role about ensuring certain standards on an organization-wide basis so I want I wanted to avoid using the term sort of policing because I know that doesn’t introduce UC the right tone but some level there is there must be some
Aspects of what the corporate group do that actually Safeguard the things that are non-negotiable for the organization as a whole and I just wondered whether that came out enough in the words used in the values and in the role definition because I know you don’t want to kind of
Make that kind of a dominant fa Factor but it it really does need to be a present factor I think um and the second question um was about um is about how shared services interface with this because out of the functions in the corporate group I think I’m right in
Saying that ICT internal audit and legal are all shared services admittedly two of themed from the city council to to others as well but the other provided to us from somewhere else um and I just wondered how how this in in principle can Encompass shared services maybe
Employees that are not employees of the city council and how the culture that lies behind what you’re doing here can be kind of transferred to the people from somewhere else that are doing doing work for us um and whether the on the back of that what whether the there has
Been discussions in the past I know about um whether other corporate functions could be shared like HR and finance which probably more significant numerically than than some others but um I I wonder whether we are still open with this document and this strategy um to that if ever it became possible in the
Future okay right to answer that thank you councelor bck in relation to the first part yes absolutely um part of the fundamental role of corporate Hub is to work with managers across the counil to understand how they know whether they are achieving the goals that they want to achieve are they
Doing that work in the right way are they considering the risks and the legal compliance that they need to take into consideration so there is a there is a balance between us doing in corporate Hub doing that for people and enabling them to do that for themselves um and
There will be very clearly a monitoring role in there to ensure that people are doing those things um the corporate Hub I don’t want to make a massive uh corporate hub for the organization you know we we aren’t um we we need to be lean a lot of that means that our our
Managers rather than us trying to do everything for our managers we need to make sure they have the right tools and capacity to understand and do these things um collectively so it’s absolutely top you know top of it then in in the the section uh what the corporate functions will do we are
Looking at how do you know whether you’ve done the right thing are you going to be able to do that tomorrow have you considered the risks that you’re taking are you considering how that fits with governance um how are you working with the rest of the organization the wi state
So they are the fundamental questions that we need to be asking of ourselves and our systems um which really does speak to making sure that we’re doing the right things in the right way um in relation to shared services um I think there’s there we are in a in a position to be
Clear about what we want from our shared services and how we want to work with them it’s not necessarily um this sets out the framework work um there will be different approaches to implementation um very likely for each one of the functions but we are also starting the root down the shared
Services review for the review sh um the renewal and review of the shared services agreement but and having this framework in place before we go through that process will be very very helpful in us being able to say this is what we this is what we would expect this is
What we would like and how we would like to work with you for our part hope that thank you councelor Davey yes very very briefly to support James just said clearly from our perspective to make the organization um leaner as well as more effective is part of what
This Administration would like um I’m also grateful councelor bck for your attendance at the or member briefing last week on uh Cambridge I think this is really important important um because we need to engage all members this is about how the council works not just what we think as a political Authority
Um and therefore again I welcome the fact we support the proposals I’m grateful but thank you for Jane for your working us thank you CH ccor Bennett thank you chair um this is just a very quick Point um but we do find that the workings of council offices are often
Less transparent than we would like them to be uh we know you publish who does what which we find useful but we have wondered if a more detailed organogram might be useful is it something that you have considered I can did you answer that J I can certainly look into it I think
The reason we don’t tend to publish a detailed or grogram with all of our staff on it is because we’ve got a large number of staff and by using the who does what which has got all of our managers on it all of our corporate management hereo you should be
Able to find the right entry point where they can direct you to the right Officer that you need but I’ll certainly take that away and have a look at it thank you any further questions no in that case can I take you to the rec recommendations on page
57 agree the purpose and agree the decisions can I see all those in favor please show that’s unanimous chair that’s unanimous thank you right we now move on to item seven chair oh I’m sorry one an item has come up that I have to ask the executive council’s approval thank I accept recommendation
Thank you well sorry sorry Council DAV do you agree the recommendation I I’m here for a very important function I like to fulfill it chair so yes I do accept the recommendation great thank you now item 7 has been patiently awaited now there are um elements of this paper which are
Confidential and we may need to uh exclude the press and public for those items if you discuss those I’m hoping there’ll be quite a good discussion and debate before in public the items which are not confidential I’m hoping that’s what we’re do next but anyway councilor B you wanted to comment
Something uh CH chair I um I I would agree with what you said I think that um it would be most desirable that we have our discussion in the public domain and avoid avoid a private recess if that can be done um so that’s that’s where we are
I I do um just if I could say as well that I I do regret it that there is such a vast amount of of um material on pink papers which is um obscure from the public which I think is a is a shame and
I think it it sets up a a sort of feeling um which um doesn’t actually help the progress of these these projects um I appreciate that since I’ve made my point that some additional aspects from the reports have been made available and I’m obviously of the The
View that the more that is in the public domain the better um but it’s still um I think it’s not a very clever way of doing it but if you count the pages there’s still much more in pink papers than anything else I just wonder whether
To kind of just clear the air whether it would be possible for an officer just to take us through through appendix by appendix saying a few words about why that document is not in the public domain because um I think that would maybe help a little
Bit I think you’re right I think that would be helpful Ben bins would you be able to provide the an explanation for those yeah happy to answer that um I’m assuming everyone can hear me okay just like check the microphone so appendix one as explained in the public
Question um and for all the appendices that are commercial and confidence uh relate to the the fact that um it contains commercially sensitive information and um I will go through each point in turn but ultimately the release of that information would mean an advantageous um to to biders in a
Procurement process so we we start with appendix one or a yes um which is the I think it states in the report it’s the C right the card report um there is significant information in there that relates to uh intellectual property that could be considered advantageous to biders just by way of an
Example of how to achieve Net Zero for for example and so it’s that type of information that’s been withheld from the public because once we go to procurement we do not wish other other biders to benefit from that information they need to come forward with their own ideas and of course that
Bidder that company may wish to bid themselves as part of the consortia as well um there are other appendices and I just have to remind myself of uh the order there in but I think appendix B if I’m correct relates to uh Kip appraisal the kip appraisal relates to financial
Information um in relation to Mandela house and again that’s that’s highly confidential and I will say that uh as a summary of the report these figures are high level they will have to be tested with uh further Market testing and Commercial review which will come back in November
For uh stress testing and checking of those figures so that’s that’s withheld from the public but we have disclosed the figure that the Enver alage which is 16 million for the disposal um of Mandela there is another appendix that relates to the cost report for the Guild
Hall um by uh calit seeden and that summarizes the breakdown of the cost information to get to Net Zero also the amount of money that would needed be spent on Heritage retaining the Heritage bringing it up to um modern standards as well as contingency there a whole
Breakdown in relation to that if that was released to the general public again um there would be an an advantage to to biders in order to achieve that but we have disclosed the figure in public which is 35 million um a further appendix relates to the calculations of
The mpb which Compares uh do nothing so we don’t sell Mandela or the the Guild Hall compared to comparator option which is the council moves into new premises and compared to the option we’re proposing which is to sell Mandela uh dispose of Mandela and rebish the Guild
Hall and they they’re um again highly confidential figures but the working is there for councilors to to review and we would wish any future bidders or any commercial advisor to come up with their own figures to to review that um I think that is all the appendices that uh have I missed one
Out and the corn exchange I beg you pardon relate to Potter Raper um PRP which have undertaken a cost analysis of bringing uh the corn exchange closer to Net Zero so a a whole raft of cost figures in that information which ordinarily in a procurement process
Would not be released um as it would provide an advantage to biders so what we’ve got is we’ve got a cut down version of appendix a has been made public that’s the one on the G and and the full version of the report on the market is is also been the public
Domain that’s appendix D I think that that’s in the sorry the one of the appendixes fully in the public domain which is the LDN design is that what you’re referring to I’m referring to that yes I think so and a partial version of appendix one yes that’s correct
And the rest as you have understood is is giving away our pricing so competitors do not careful Council Bennett could you turn your mic off Ben Ben you turn your mic off thank you chair and I apologize for delay getting my microphone to work um I have gone through my questions
In some detail I’m reasonably confident that everything I want to ask can be deal within the public domain and I also would be very keen for us to continue um this discussion in public because of the considerable public interest shown by the questions I understand there are other questions which could not be
Accommodated because they came in too late and I feel that I would rather not ask a question then go on to private on this item thank you for that right in this case let’s move on to the presentation then would you like to present the report
Please okay um just chair just to a reminder about the amendments to the recommendations that something you want to highlight now or would you would you like me to sorry I thought the recommendations were to the Harry report are they to this report both oh both sorry okay the council
Should have had circulated some small amendments to two papers have you had them I okay yeah screen I suggest you go and get them copied and then we’ll get on with do a presentation that’s okay right Ben would you like to go ahead they’re m l
Adjustments okay so do you want me to go through the changes in the recommendation no I just go through okay that’s fine I’ll start with the summary just of of the report so the fundamental outline of the report reflects three objectives and they are to create a more attractive
Central destination that will increase visitor numbers for the market corn exchange of businesses in the area point two is to ensure long-term savings to protect Council Frontline Services by reducing operational costs and increasing revenue streams and to contribute to the council Target of being Net Zero by
2030 so there’s a lot of work that’s gone into this report and it does refer back to some previous reports particularly in relation to the Guild Hall the future office accommodation strategy which came to this Committee in 2022 now while progress has been made that particular report referred to uh
Further work required to compare the option one which was the refurbishment of the Guild Hall and selling Mandela as referred to in that report uh to comparator and this report outlines uh what the findings were in terms of the further work that was undertaken and they include that if the
Council were able to achieve and realize 16 million from the disposal of Mandela house and the refurbishment of the guild hole for 35 million then uh that could produce a net present value of 22 million so in other words spend 19 now and the council would be 22 million in
Favor in the bank in 30 years now the reason why that it’s possible is because currently the council’s spending 2.3 million in outgoings uh in running two offices which is Mandela and the Guild Hall by combining that into one office and retaining the Guild Hall we would only
Need approximately half the Guild Hall to fulfill our office functions but also to fulfill specific functions customers services and uh retain the halls for conferencing we would then be able to let out the remaining half and that could generate up to 700,000 in net revenue for the council so even with our
Additional running costs even just for half for Net Zero of half a million the council would turn that 2.3 million outgoing into a net benefit of approximately 200,000 now based on that work uh the recommendation is to proceed to explore that further in combination with the work undertaken uh on the market particularly
The report in March 22 the to the environment and Community scrutiny committee which um referred to a specific vision for the Market Square we have an opportunity to carry that forward noting some of the concerns uh from traders that have already been mentioned uh in the public questions but also to
Continue with the business as usual uh to ensure the market continues to function effectively and to bring forward a report to the environment and scrutiny Committee in March 24 on the market status at the same time the corn exchange has a current asset plan or Capital cost 10-year projection of
Approximately 5.5 million for some limited carbon reduction measures in there so by combining the ambition of all three to uh look at Net Zero and to increase the destination um to to attract more visitors there is an opportunity to consider the multiplier effect by trying to improve the destination of these
Civic spaces as well as getting to Net Zero the combination of that work would also contribute towards a business plan for the combined Authority bid of 1.5 million that’s also been mentioned that came uh that was announced on November the 30th and hopefully be confirmed in the next few
Days so the ask of the three Civic quarter spaces is for the committee to approve 1.45 million um to take to reberu to contribute towards a design consortia and to bring back a report in November uh November this year and what what the ask is to bring back to
November is more detailed designs and Survey work commercial report that reflects the market opportunities to lease out half the Guild Hall and to have a more robust appraisal in order for the council to make a more informed choice now we know the Civic quarter the guil hole The Market Square and the corn
Exchange um are very important to the people of Cambridge and we’ve got a comprehensive engagement plan that’s also detailed in the report part of it will be internal engagement working with our colleagues in the council whether it’s customer services Property Services uh and also the uh members as
Well the external liaison is detailed and committed to in the report in terms of dates we starting this Wednesday with the Civic liaison quarter group and also meeting with Market Traders and we’ve committed to dates in April and in October as well but it’s more than just Market Traders
And uh interested stakeholders who want to reach out to people of Cambridge and we hope to do that by uh the use of Citizen lab to try and capture as many comments as we can and engage with the people of Cambridge and of course we need to engage with members and you’ll
Note there is a graphic in the report that refers to how we’re going to engage with members actually in terms of design process but also updates to not only members of the the the ruling group but also the exact counselors but also opposition spokesperson as well um I’m happy to take any questions
On this thank you I think there’s going to be some questions yes councelor Pig chair I I don’t know how you want to organize this because iag imagine like you say there’s going to be quite a lot of points that everyone wants to make um
I I had a I had a couple of points about the the report as a whole but I wonder whether um it would be possible to have the right time to talk about each of the component parts as well separately because otherwise we’re going to be talking across each other in a rather
Unhelpful way so I I’ve got my couple of comments about the general first that sounds like a good idea so we’ll start off with the hole Yeah okay well um I I wanted to ask about the rationale for this to be brought forward as if it was a single project um
I was initially quite um taken with that approach um but the more I’ve read in these papers the more I’m wondering whether that really stands up now I know these are three spaces that the council owns all quite close to each other but they are really each of them three quite
Different sorts of SP spaces in their purpose and the things that we’re talking about doing with each one of them is not for the most part going to make a huge impact on the others except that we want them all to happen they’re all going to help each other but I don’t
Think that’s really that really applies to how we go about them how we fund them how we design them I mean of course we want better for the guild all to be populated and people to be using it it’s better for um all for that and the corn
Exchange to be energy efficient and and also um economically sustainable um and it’s great that we want to have the market um sustainable and thriving as well but you know you you can tackle each one of those after having said that you can tackle each one of those
Completely separately and and still come to an optimum optimum answer and you know there there’s a lot of cynicism about I’m afraid once you start to introduce a concept like Civic um quarter which see which sounds to people quite quite grandiose um people scratch their heads and say really you know
What’s what’s actually you know well actually each of the three component parts is still going to be there um and um it’s not it’s not that that new so is it is it because we want to sort of we’re nervous about the act of providing decent offices for
Council employees and therefore we want to pack in around that the the things that um that the public directly care more about like the market and the and the corn exchange and hoping that they’ll protect each other um or are we or are we worried about the government
Rules about what we can invest money in um so that we need to make this look like a big regeneration scheme or or really what is it because my my concern is In The End by going forward by trying to pretend it’s one project it it may it may obscure some important differences
And issues and and prevent proper focus on each one of them um and in relation to all of that in the recommendations could could we please be told are we talking about procuring ultimately three separate design teams um for these three components or are we talking about um One Design Team
For all three components because um it seems to me that it’s likely to require quite different focus and likely that bids will come forward um that are best for one but are not best for the other others and um I just like some clarity on what we’re actually voting for when
We come to that please I just make a comment first then I’m I’m sorry you feel that the the three areas of the Civic quarter are all separate they are at the moment there’s no reason why they should be always the corn exchange and the Guild Hall have functions similar
Functions the coric the Guild Hall could become much more part of the Public’s domain than it is at the moment if it was had Civic space and commercial space in it and Market is right next to us and again you could be running other events there as well as running a market anyway
Let’s get on with the debate Ben do you want to answer those yeah I happy to to try and be a bit more specific for May then so why why together I think I think there is a very strong argument to consider public realm um which the interconnections
Between the Market guil Hall and the corn exchange uh there’s a real opportunity to get that right it’s not just about seating for the market it’s also about creating that visitor destination and you do need to consider the public realm whether that’s paths whether that’s uh more trees biodiversity just creating a greater
Sense of place it’s a magnificent Square it’s a magnificent building and it’s all about creating that um opportunity of what could be done to the public realm so that’s number one the the other thing is there are some synergies between the corn exchange for example and uh the
Guild Hall such as on conferencing facilities Now by looking at the design of that you can increase the amount of conferencing that could go on in both buildings therefore generating more income for the council now that’s just one example conferencing facilities um but there’s also the the benefit if you
Do procure separately for the Guild Hall market and and the corn exchange you’re likely that it’s going to cost a bit more money it’s three separate bids it takes more time and effort for teams to put in a bit by doing it as one I think you’ll get better value for money you’ll
Get more for your money and um that presents an opportunity in itself uh and to do it all together for that reason there’ll be a number of other reasons around that but I think they’re the three most um uh important reasons in order to answer your questions that
Leads on to the second point about procuring three design teams um it’s likely to be more expensive doing it that way um by procuring one designed Consortium they’re going to have to be quite sophisticated and clever in order how they procure or how they bid um because they
Are each one is slightly different and has different needs needs uh the market has a completely different design need to what the Guild Hall is and what the corn exchange is so the design consortia has got to reflect that and be um scored accordingly to ensure that we do have
The right design consorti here I hope that answers your question thank you canoun go wood well uh and this is a personal partly a personal point of view but I’ll come on to the questions I’m very keen that this is seen as either a single
Program the idea I mean I saw it was a program rather with several projects in it um but I do think there’s a lot that could be done because I’m in the guild all a lot now to open it up and to see it as part of the outside space a lot
More and of course yesterday I had a concert for Parkinson’s in in the Guild Hall halls and many people had never been in here I know we have security issues all those things but it would be wonderful if this could be kind of opened up and when people say visitors
We do mean visitors who are also residents I just want to make that very clear you know as we’re being streamed however my my detail questions you partly um answered them but I wondered if you could say a bit more about the details of the stakeholder you know
Stakeholder engagement what it will look like the details of processes I know you’ve mentioned citizens lab and the meetings that are coming up but more on that because I think that’s the getting that right is I mean it’s always a difficult thing to do um but I know
There’ll be a lot of interest from people um in this and people sort of toward in certainly in my area and then my second question it’s similar it is about thinking about the importance of this area and the layout of the public realm how we can move from the corn
Exchange to the Guild Hall um and really about the um and the public space around here and the roads um and the governance so again we’re betting back again there to stakeholder and stakeholder engagement so a bit more on that will be very helpful thank
You yes thank you chair so we tried to outline the engagement plan with stakeholders and also that overlaps into the governance to demonstrate how various stakeholders can feed into the design process so we’ve nailed our dates to the m if you like on uh some of the key liaison groups with Market Traders
And also the Civic quarter leaon group however it’ll be much broader than that so if this um report is approved tonight then part of the procurement process will be about how will the design team respond to the need a to engage with a wider public of Cambridge yes we’ll have
Tools available and B how will they ensure that the many stakeholders particularly important one for talking Market Traders we’re talking um ensuring the leas carefully with the Heritage uh in planning and others local businesses around there how will they engage successfully transparently with that in terms of the design process so there is
A bit of information to come forward because that will be up to the design team um as part of their bid to make sure that they come up with innovative ideas to engage with the public and other state holders in relation to that and you’ll see on the on the the plan
We’ made it very clear that there’ll be opportunities for that engagement um those dates haven’t been set we do have a um an outline idea when those dates will be which is likely to be May June and July um I hope that answered the first part of the question the second part about
The public realm and the interconnectedness um one of the key questions in the procurement process will be how can they increase the economic M multiply effect of of the area now that’s quite a difficult question for them for bidders to ask but in in simple terms if we increase the
Numbers whether it’s in the Guild Hall or in the corn exchange and we increase the spending per head there will be a way to demonstrate how that can improve and increase increase the uh income of the area now that that requires some clear design thinking imagination and
Vision in order to do that how do we get people to sit and stay and eat in the area how do we use the the um the public realm that surrounds the Guild Hall and the corn Exchange in order to get more people to stay if there are conferences
On in the corn exchange how do we get them to spend more money so that Council generates more income because it’s a more um interesting place to stay an interesting place to eat those are the ideas and Visions we’re asking biders to come forward with but also in a
Quantifiable way so that we can judge yes okay these are good ideas will they actually have an economic impact that’s a was um I certainly take that point because one of the things I didn’t say we’re both a regional center we’re a city uh and we’re a local Center what I
I will I will say this now what I would like to see though is that people who live in Cambridge don’t feel that they’re excluded from this part I would like all our um Heritage well the maces our jewels and Charters and things to be on display so that our locals and visitors
From further away can see them and that is about making the best use of our heritage I don’t think it fights with um increasing the economic value of our or return on what we have but I really would like to see that too thanks yes you’re you’re agreeing you
With you on that there also the archives and the Heritage Assets in the building they all need to be thought about I mean we’re not just looking for efficiency we’re looking for something to care for our the Heritage we that is under our control at the moment uh councelor Shield you wanted to
Say something thank you chair and thank you Ben for the presentation um my question is a continuity of service question um people really appreciate the face-to-face help they get from city council offices on region Street and I myself am very grateful for the E excellent uh help that I’ve had um from
Uh city council staff over the years and so in the event it if the pathway that would repurpose the site that’s currently occupied by Mandela house is chosen will we be able to reassure our residents that when one shop closes there another shop will open for example here and pretty much straight
Away thank you Ben yes um yes the the reassurance I can give is that Mandela can’t really close uh as an office or a customer service center until we all have a place to move to so that’s that’s that’s clear um and the other reassurance to to give is that
They there is space for customer services however it it is big or small in the in the um space analysis of the Guild Hall um so that is already calculated in there um although it is just worth noting that I think um we only had uh 1.9% face to-face meetings and the
Majority were done digitally so just to make that point there but I hope that answers your question yes thank you Cil vett thank you chair I’ve got rather a lot of questions I can see there’s a lot of interest in this so I propose just to
Ask the first one and then the other people come in um I’ve also had the advantage of being able to ask Ben some questions before the meeting so I think my first question is um now that I’ve seen the pink Pages these feel more like a purely building based
Project but yet in the main report that’s published um we have on page 69 3.6 to 3.8 it’s you know we’re talking about you know a more strategic project and if we are going to have a more strategic project or just a buildings based project I think that’s
Something that needs to come to this committee and be discussed um and also I think that we need to have a discussion about that strategy and what should be in it for example um one of the goals listed was to increase footfall visitor numbers but actually if you talk to the businesses
Around the market what they want will say is they want to have a higher quality of footfall um a higher spend per ha and that the number visitor numbers are almost more than they can cope with we also know we all have residents who won’t come into the Town Center at the
Weekend because it’s too busy and hazardous to them or just unappealing because the Crowds Are I I am aware um because I occasionally do conference booking for my professional organization that we have over 50 conference venues in Cambridge already and I just wonder what adding one more
Conference venue actually does for us as a city um we already seem to be overweight on that the limiting factor for increasing our conference trade is surely the low number of Hotel Beds and not the availability of conference venues I would say that um conferences
And weddings tend to go hand inand we no longer have a registry office in the city because the changes to sh Hall and this removes a facility for low cost weddings and nund denominational weddings that I think is a huge loss to the city if we are going to uh proed of this
Project I would like to see reprovision of registry facility you know included in the ask I think that would be of enormous value to Residents Way Beyond creating a 56th or 57th um conference venue thank you just before we car on to that Council B suggested we do with the hole
First getting if we can still stick with that it would be helpful but do carry on thank you chair um I think the point on strategy we’re trying to make in the report is that we need more information in order to make an informed decision and that’s why undertaking surveys and a
Bit more design work and coming back in November with more robust Financial figures that is the period where a big decision will need to be made so I think that’s the important point I’d like to make there um on on football in crowds I mean I think what’s important here is
Just a little bit of context the Guild Hall had 300 uh people working in there that undoubtedly will have an immediate impact on the market just as more people have lunches or buy flowers or whatever it may do and it’s those immediate impacts that can have a significant
Economic benefit um so we’re not talking coach loads and Coach loads and Coach loads what we’re trying to say is if concerts are going on in in the corn exchange can we get them to stay a bit longer so it benefits the market or benefits the council in another way in
Terms of the conference venue um the the officers that have uh assisted me in this report already saying that conferences are being turned down because they can’t provide in the same way as universities so universities get that income when it could be income for the ccil so I think
We also need to be careful as well as what we mean by conference not just about conferences for tech companies we’re talking a whole variety of conferences such as the one that was held here yesterday so I think there will be an opportunity for for members or the council to decide whether there’s
Different layers of pricing in relation to that um I take your point about the lowcost weddings and registry I think that’s an excellent idea we can take that on board and make sure that’s part of the engagement and and fed into the design process thank you councelor Davey yeah very briefly um it’s
Addressing um councelor bick’s earlier Point without wishing to oversell ourselves I think this is quite grandiose if I’m honest this is the major city in the Eastern region having to look at the central of the city and therefore you have to do that I would argue very much in looking at all the
Major assets that we have because they are interl that’s not to say that they want as cancer Robertson’s already indicated because it’s such a large program it’ll have to be split into Parts in G course and I think that has to be recognized to any other project
Would’ have to do that because you break it down into various different work streams but I think at this point which is very early days we have an opportunity to change the whole Center of this city and to not look look at that in the hole would be a mistake in
My view and therefore it’s right as Council Robson indicated to look at this in the hole at this stage that’s not a certain carry on thank you chair thank you C Bennett I just wanted to make a very quick point which is to thank councelor go at wood uh for her comments about
Opening up the Heritage for the Guild Hall and if you can hear a small noise from the north of the city I suspect it’s councelor Tom cheering you on right do we have any questions Ono the moment oh yes Council asan sorry I this this seems to be taking place
Outside of using Mandela house and is part of this scoping exercise going to scope whether we should include Del house or as part of the scheme is that going to be part part of it so we’ve undertaken um a high level appraisal that’s given us a figure that now needs
To be looked at and reviewed by commercial advisor and in November when we come back with a designs for the Guild Hall Market Square C exchange there will also be a advice on Mandela house now there’ll be possibly a suite of options for members to review uh whether that includes the disposal which
We think is probably the most likely outcome but there could be other options around that in terms of keeping Mandela but we need to be mindful of of budget the procurement doesn’t include the design of Mandela sorry yeah so is that a bit shortsighted can I
Query you know will we get to November and and when we come to look at what’s being proposed might we think what have you thought about how might Mandela might fit in with all of this that that would most definitely be included in the report um as I say it
May be that it’s too big an ask but we wait and see there could well be other options that include keeping Mandela but I just just need to stress that this high level uh work that’s been undertaken is is a proposal to be looked at in more
Detail can I just get you confirmation in various part places in the report it mentioned sale of B house as if it’s part of the deal but actually in the recommendation s it says a business case options options for a business case will be developed I think that’s the crucial
Point isn’t it that never mind what the report says in other places in fact there will be a business case is that correct yes it does does say that that in the recommendation there’ll be options to look at that that’s correct is that okay Council bent yes chair I
I I still remain in my mind something you know suggests to me that we haven’t made a decision about Mandel house it’s going to be part of this scheme it either goes or it stays and if we’re doing it as a composite as a joined up approach I’m just wary of that situation
That it’s going to be separate and we’ll be saying asking questions currently are not obvious but maybe I’m assured by the fact that it’s going to be within the scope of what’s going on for this one and a half million pounds but it’s not going to get that special
Treatment in during that process but I I’ve made my point and I’m sure that it’s been heard thank you counc big still on the hole yes I was just um was going to ask you whether I could contribute but I’m it’s more on the the Guild Hall which is
Seems like what we’re talking about anyway now so is that okay the area of governance I wanted to come back to do you want to do with that should I take that up first I wasn’t going to talk about that no I will take out that first then we’ll come
On to the individual buildings governance is really at the heart of this matter and who is actually going to be running the uh the project if we go ahead with it now on page 79 there’s a little diagram of all the processes and uh nice colorful diagram crucial to that
Is to my mind are the stakeholders and design input now I have a question about the design input there’s a element of it is a member group looking at the design and I think we need confirmation that is a multi it’s all party Design Group is it not I think it presumably should
Be uh and uh the the stakeholders engagement with them is I think that’s if that’s not comprehensive I’m sure if there’s anything missing I’m sure it could be added but I’m not aware of any missing at the moment so those are my points so if I if I’ve understood
Correctly you’re you’re trying to understand the design input in the graphic yeah so the design input what we mean by that is design workshops with the design team or designed consortia in which there will be input or feedback from the various groupings there including the member Steering
Group and um there will be a proposal of what constitutes that member Steering group for agreement um but we would expect that to include um opposition uh counselors as well as uh the the ruling group um clearly there’s going to be a lot of interest and there will be
Design conflicts of which there’ll have to be design tradeoffs um but that’s part and parcel of the whole uh engagement plan in order to capture as many points the historical the the Heritage points as councilor go wood meant uh mentioned as well as the needs of the market Trader as well as
The needs of officers so undoubtedly there will be some uh design conflicts and that will be up to the the project team to work through and feedback so um I hope that answers your question yes thank you right now shall we oh c v still on the hole
Yes sorry is my microphone now working um this is again coming back to the sort of central issue of what sort of project is this is generation project or are we just trying to sort out our buildings because those seem to me to be Interlink but two very separate
Objectives because if it is the first wider project which is strategic regeneration why these three buildings should we be looking at shy Hall should we be looking at mil road which is to many residents the real Heart of the City rather than the Guild Hall um should we be considering other
Heritage buildings which are falling into disrepair such as the cel’s Checker and the Lepard Chapel in my ward um are we opening up the floodgates and creating expectations here that we cannot fulfill I think that’s quite rhetorical really rather than a question shall we move do you want a
Question answer what’s who’s going to answer that no do I don’t it’s a rhetorical thing you’re you’re asking us to think about it it’s not what’s on the table I’m afraid I don’t think it’s very far from rhetorical question if you look at the coverage in the paper you’ll see it’s
The questions that people are asking Al hway do you have a contribution on this yeah I just thought I’d enter that discussion as well um so it seems to me as though the the need has initially Arisen because of the condition of these two buildings and the Market
Square and then rather than simply treating each of those three as separate entities then the decision has been taken or may be taking today as well to treat those partially as one regeneration program of the city center I mean of course there are other buildings and other areas of the city
That need regeneration and that is important too but that’s not what we’re discussing now I don’t think that’s very helpful thank you how a b should we go on to your dealing with the gold Hall next yeah I just had some things to say about Guild hole if I could
Um so starting at the sort of more level of detail really um the recommendations don’t actually say it but I think it’s intended to be implicit that they’re all going to be pursued in relation to option one it doesn’t actually say that in the recommendations that that’s the point I’m making so
Um I think important to make that clear in Whatever Gets decided um this evening um if that is the case um I um I just wanted to talk about um how I see the guild hole component of this in general uh we we’ve supported um the retention for civic use of the Guild
Hall um seeing the importance of public building on one side of the Market Square as as a really really important facet of how a city center should be um so to that extent I think we’re working on the right ideas and they seem to be pointed in the right
Direction comes to the use of money um and I think that there were a lot of public sensitivities about that um to what extent is money being spent on making Council offices lives unnaturally convenient or Pleasant um I I I think it’s important to go back
To another thing that I think uh my colleagues have really emphasized and that is that um we um we’re talking here about using um reserves we’re talking here about um applying other sources of capital um and our concern um has always been that we should be using those assets to convert
Capital to a return which is sustainable and which helps to pay for our services in the long in the long term um we know we’ve got spending Gap Services could always be better anyway um and if we can contribute to that without going back to the council taxpayer apologizing for cutbacks then I
Think that’s really really an important thing so the question really is on the basis of what we’ve got here um in these proposals is that is this a proposal that looks credible in terms of generating that sort of that sort of return um so what
So what I did was to take what are the assets that we’re talking about here it seems it’s obviously the Guild Hall itself it’s Mandela house and it’s the use of on the basis of these figures1 19 million pounds of reserves and if I’m looking then at what sort of return is
Um suggested um for the future out of this sort of project if we went ahead as he currently now I understand that the figures come from what what I would choose to call an illustrative proposals they are not the proposals they’re the result of testing what a scheme of this
Kind could be like and what it could deliver but looking at those things what I calculated was that um partly through increased income partly through um reduced operating costs that we would be talking about a return of about six and a half perc I’m really open for other people to
Correct my figures but that’s what I I thought um we were talking about here and and it’s confirmed to me that if that was the case then 6 and a half% is indeed about the sort of return we expect from Assets in our commercial portfolio and therefore to me
Recognizing these are not final proposals you know return and whatever is involved could change as a result of what happens next I I found that that this was something that was um a decent proposal for the use of Public public money um and I think apart from that it
Obviously recognizes that the council the council’s uh office accommodation is completely dysfunctional if you just look at it as it is now um it also secures the objective which I said I think many of us felt was appropriate to try and keep a Civic building on the
Market square um and obviously to boot investing substantially in mitigating the effects of climate change which is another important policy objective so to me this looks a credible proposal that um that ought to go forward um and and I think it is a use of public
Money which could be in the public good if it works out like it is here because it would generate that ongoing income which we don’t get from we can’t get from our Council taxpayers we we can’t get from the government and um and you you can’t raise the price of going
Swimming so much that you Chang the order of um the council’s income so um I think that it makes our resources work in a good way um for the long term but I do think that we need to watch that figure if 6 and a half% is my calculation if you know I
Think we need to watch how that figure changes if we as we go to the next stage because it’s a conditional thing from my point of view if that if that return um does does go down um but yet the costs stay the same or get get bigger I think
I would start to question my own my own belief um I um I took two further questions um one was if things flow forward as they suggested here should we be also looking um at exiting Mandela actually before we had done all the work on the Guild Hall I
Mean the Guild Hall is characterized by being say mainly empty at the moment and um it’s a very big building and the work doesn’t go on on all you know retrofitting work need not go on on all floors at the same time time and it
Seems to me that um if we made the decision to exit um Mandela then it might be appropriate that we didn’t sit with both buildings for the maximum length of time and we looked to try and concertina that process if it could be done in an acceptable way um to staff um
And then the other question I had um was about the number of workspaces that um we would plan to provide in the Guild Hall now and I think the Assumption here is 150 that’s been used in the work that’s been done I um I I haven’t got
Any critique of 150 but the thing I think that is really most important about whatever assumption we make is that we um have the capacity in what we’re what we’re designing to allow that figure to be either higher or lower maybe but by quite some considerable way because I personally
And I think a lot of people don’t really regard work patterns as having reached a settled point that they’re working and they somewhat conditioned by people who’ve lived through the the pandemic and a new generation of people in the workforce is coming through and that might not be the preference it might not
Be seen in the future to be the best way of of um of organizing um a sort of organization so I just think that we need to have a way of either flexing upwards or flexing even down downwards the number of workstations we provide and without having to completely untie
Everything that we create in the design but I’d just like to say on the Guild Hall thing I’m aspect of this I think so far so good is what I would characterizing you like to on thank you chair thank you for the comments um so
The option one we refer to in the report um you you you are right refers to the disposal of Mandela to contribute towards the refurbishment of the Guild Hall it’s not explicit in the recommendation so that leaves the door open to the possibility of keeping Mandela if that was financially possible
Going forward so um that that is why it’s not there which answers the question of council vent earlier about that so but the the figures will be the figures there’ll be Market testing on that and that will be um reported back in November um so you’re right to point out
That the current finances do Stack Up based on those figures as you as you mentioned that’s the test we now need to undertake with our commercial advisor if this report is approved and that will be the Benchmark to come back to um can we get more money will it cost less money
To refurbish and those are the the the levers and the the figures we need to look at um in terms of the death space the absolute imperative for the Guild Hall is to allow the expansion or contraction of death space so we what we
Can’t be in a position is um we won’t be able to do that so that will be implicit in the design briefing if for uh work patents change the government legisl we all have to be in the office or whatever it may be then um we need to have the
Ability to be able to have more desk space if that’s possible so that that is implicit that’s in the design brief that has to happen can I just follow up on that one um if this 150 work baces are for the city council staff but there’s also the commercial space which presumably gives
Us more flexibility if we decided we needed more space or less space because give or take more from the commercial so have I misunderstood that sorry I didn’t hear the question you mind the 150 workplaces are I thought all for the city council if that is so there’s also the
Commercial space which would give us the flexibility to add to our workplaces or less if whichever way is needed is is that correct yes so the if if it’s if it’s as simple as renting out so the commercial death space is approximately equivalent so 150 it’s about 300 to 350 space for desks
You could have in this in there that assumes keeping the current Civic space that assumes keeping the same level of customer care space um and assumes the same level of space for members room and so on and so forth does assume quite a few meeting rooms um and obviously the
Chief executive meeting rooms and office as well so there’s there’s there’s flexibility within the 150 to go beyond before you even uh look at the commercial side of it the 150 is just city council just for the council yeah okay thank you questions about the GU C agent have during your considerations I
Know things are are always moving along well you know it’s like jumping on an escalator have you thought about how 2014 might impact on our think in here how we might impact how the the Gove plan let’s put in simple language if if that comes forward in any way
Shape or form now that may impact on us as a council and the accommodation that we need well um there’s a lot of speculation around that but if that might mean unitary or um other form of local government reorganization then clearly would need more space but um we are working on the
Assumption of current need for Cambridge City Council but as I say the design needs to be flexible enough for future proofing to allow expansion or contraction so the answer is yes there consideration been given but not necessar very specific to Michel Co do you think that that we might need to consider a
Bit deeper because whilst you’ve been considering this plan there’s something going on outside quite a great acceleration and probably I mean we’re not going to get an answer on what Gove or or whoever follows up from Gove is going to be doing but this city is definitely going
To be expanding and there is the potential for us to become a unitary but which is a long way away but so is the completion of all this and I have to think past my lifetime I suppose um do you think we should spend a bit
More time looking at that in in some sort of subgroup and some discussion between the party leader can I ask counc DAV you’d like to I think if any of us knew what Mr Go’s plans for 2040 were and had any idea what might be coming it would be helpful
Unfortunately we don’t and therefore we have to try and ensure in my eyes that we start looking at what means of the city are rather than what Michael Gove might be thinking in terms of uh unitary discussions as you know Dave sorry councel agent there’s been no discussions as yet that might happen
Might not we’re committed as a council to looking at this over a period of time but that’s many many years away hopefully Mr days are numbered as well this is not happening in a vacuum you know this we are in a moveing situation whatever we nobody knows but
There’s a likelihood I’m just making the point as I did with the Mandela house thing Cil Holloway thank you I know councelor Ben Bri talked about um spending 20 million or so of reserves on Central buildings that arguably could be spent elsewhere in the city and I’ve I’ve shared those
Concerns as well at times but I do think that the idea that we can actually turn something that’s costing us money at the moment into something that and hopefully we make the money as councilor Bick has in detail laid out is very important for the city we can then spend that money on
All the important things that we do for residents all across the city also how our officers I think s gets forgotten in this a bit whether unnaturally comfortably or in fact as comfortably as they deserve is really really important and then that does help to serve all the residents in the city as
Well um I think we also do need to make sure as again been pointed out the Guild Hall at the moment it is quite empty a lot of the time so if we can maximize the use for as far as possible I know this Point’s been made but I just want
To reiterate that and that can be in all sorts of different ways of course it could be in museum could be with businesses Charities could be with other opportunities for residents to come and have meetings here all sorts of things but I think that is really really
Important it should be a place for the people of Cambridge in all sorts of ways to do things as well as people coming from anywhere else to enjoy and and if some of that can also bring in income for the council that’s great but we should also take into account money that
It might be raising for local businesses as well I mean that is an important function of the council too it’s not just about how much money we raise for ourselves which is important it is also about what local businesses can do because we want to facilitate that at the same
Time the other small point I make is we do have a register office on asham road so that does exist however totally open to having some brilliant wedings or other ceremonies here thank you now any more questions on the Guild Hall councelor Bennett hi I
Just want to say that um we are talking about investing 35 million not just for 19 million from reserves because there also the sell the illustrative sale proceeds from Mandela house I’d also like to say that I hope that we will see an internal rate of return calculation when this comes back in
November and I suspect that councelor bicks um interest rate figure is too high for the two reasons that I’ve mentioned the failure to reflect the cell proceeds but also because there will be a gap before returns starts and that depresses the rate um all I can say based on what I’ve
Seen is that a payback period of nine years and an npv of 22 million after 30 years on a 35 million investment would not normally be results that would be encouraging me to part with my cash on my clients or my residents cash thank you all right any more questions on the
Guild Hall should we deal with the marketplace next then any questions on the marketplace answer the big Marketplace um the um I guess the issue with the the marketplace is that um of the three spaces we’re talking about there is more difficulty in identifying and measuring a direct return um for what we
Do I mean it it it’s bound to improve the local economy if we get it right but um it’s not quite the same as the corn exchange and the the council uh and the Guild Hall but um I I I therefore um want to ask the question about um what our assumptions
Are about funding that part of the project because what we’ve seen and talking about the Guild Hall is that the um on the assumptions that have been provided the um the Guild Hall project would consume almost all of what has been set up as um an ear marked
Reserve um when it’s been talked about before the scheme for the Market Square um it has always been said that um um that can only go ahead when we have identified some third-party funding and I’m not sure that we’ve really got much further than that because um if this
Does consume almost all of the reserve for the Guild Hall um we need to be a little bit worried should we not that we’re spending money on developing a scheme that we might not be able to action and um I I just I just feel that there should be some assumptions in play
About however Splendid a scheme we can come up with um how terrible it would be to disappoint by not being able to bring it about um I um have a a question about the the paper that we’ve got here I we you you’ve quoted a vision for the Market Square which was
Approved by the environmental scrutiny Committee in 2022 to um the document that’s an appendix that is in the public domain this one um what is the status of that document I think I’ve seen it before um I wasn’t sure that that was a document as such that had been
Approved as something that we regarded as an agreed scheme um is this regarded being regarded as a proof of concept um a bit like the the report on the the Guild Hall that’s halfway into the public domain um the and the importance of that is and
I think the public question has kind of raised this is that there are a lot of people who regard themselves as quite directly involved as Market stall holders who don’t regard the concept has been completely proved uh yet and um I just wonder whether is that a good thing then to move ahead
With getting designs which assume that it has been proved um if actually we discover that isn’t the case the the concerns and I think it goes right back to the environment and scrutiny Committee in 2022 was about the um the nature of um whether there should be
Stores that are there all the time or stores that um capable of being taken away and whether whether there’s practical technology for for having things that can be taken down and put up again um now I personally believe that in this world there must be a way but I mean what I
Believe is not really the point here it’s what the people involved who would have to put them up and take them down and run their business in between and I just feel that there’s something in danger of getting left out here that we haven’t really satisfied that requirement that what
We’re trying to design around is deliverable and I I am concerned about that because um I think we we would have expected to have got to that stage before going to the next rebber stages so I’d be really interested in having your responses on those points please go ahead please Ben thank you
Chair um I think that earlier design by LDN um which is in the public domain is a steer at this stage and it’s already been noted in this committee about some of the concerns about the demountable market Stores um we’ve already met Market traders that have already
Expressed that um what it does do though is make clear look we need more seating for example we need better public realm we need better um biodiversity and trees and so forth so I think I think as a concept there are many good things in
There um what the next step is is the practicalities what is it of the store that we need to do and that’s where we need further design input and work and engagement with the market Traders on that so I would see that very much as a
Steer uh of which there are some very good ideas in there um but the the um store and demountable part of it is is not considered um to be completed yet there got to be further work done on that however that might uh turn
Out I just come back on on that I mean um I think then that it really needs to be said more clearly at this stage for the benefit of the particular stakeholders of the of the market traders that um the question about the amount ability of school
Stalls is not final yet and that is still an open question that we need more of their input to help with but I I think that the danger of not being more explicit than Miss paper is is that we’re going to get people’s backs up before we even start talking business
And um so I I think we need a real assurance that that question is still an open one and the real assurance that there’s going to be lots of stakeholder um discussion to help us get to it yeah uh absolutely we’ve already met Market traders in which um they’ve made
Their their concerns on the stores very clearly we’ve already ped that on to uh to be captured so that when there is a procurement for the design consorti they will have that information in front of them um so I can assure you and we’ve already made clear in the report that
There will be engagement with Market Traders not just updates but also design engagement with them that is part and parcel of this report uh and and we will get feedback very clear feedback from them check just ask follow up the answer to the question about the funding which I don’t think was
Covered um you you you’re correct Council Bick there are no current funding Arrangements in place at this at this point but um it is always helpful to have uh shovel ready schemes um you’ll note um the reference that was made um by the the officer from the cpca
Uh earlier this evening that there was new funding allocations came to Cambridge um with that very short notice with 4.5 million so we can only do that kind of thing when we have a business per case the design the consents all ready to go and it’s quite customer practice in local government Capital
Schemes to do this to have SCH is ready to go um I think we can be confident that the scheme of such importance to the city will attract support before too long thank you Council Smith bottom of the market then further questions anybody councilor Bennett thank you
Chair one of the issues about the market is I think we all want the market to survive but no business survives major change without a robust business continuity plan and no business continuity plan is robust unless it has the active and enthusiastic Trust of the businesses involved and
That applies in Spades with small businesses who are not very trusting at the best of times who are almost certainly coping with other pressures and have a limited bandwidth to react to change I think we have already lost the trust of Market Traders over this I
Think we need to make a plan to get it back and I would also suggest that you consider employing a business recovery specialist um to do change management because I think one of the reasons why things have gone wrong with the market because we have too many offices Running on
Fumes and we do not have you know the time to actually manage these problems so um my two ask to this is um what are we going to do to regain trust and also will we consider bringing in a specialist business recovery project accountant or other professional to manage
This you’re making assumptions about whether there is TR no trust I mean the the the market is a successful Market we’re told it’s got a higher percentage of attendance by Market is compared with the national average anyway coun Ben do you want to answer any of those
Points I I think trust is very important um and we have already started this process we’ve already spoken to Market Traders they’ve contacted us we’ve reached out to them we have a meeting with them on uh Wednesday and we’ll continue that engagement um sometimes it’s about listening sometimes it’s
About making sure we meet them on their patch and so you know one of the meetings was to have a cup of tea with one of the stor holders actually on the market and so we will engage in a number of different ways to to regain their trust
Um I hope that they will see the Outreach we’re trying to do to get them engaged as genuine um it is genuine and I hope they they will engage and and we will listen we will listen um in terms of a business recovery uh specialist we will be appointing a committee approves
Part of the design consult commercial advisor that commercial advisor will have a number of different roles as well as providing market analysis um not necessarily directly to the market more related to Guild Hall and and the corn exchange but of course the impact of the benefits to the change
And the design to the market will be included in their role so um I think that will be partially covered with that um so I hope that answers your question thank you Ben more questions on the market anybody I’ll move on to the corn exchange the last of the three any
Questions how the bck um yeah on the I mean before I go specific on the corx here I’d just like to say that I think that um that what we’re talking about in terms of investing in um in our presence in the city center and the way that affects the broader the broader
City I think is is all positive and I think it should should be welcomed it’s not because I’m just about to deviate from that and what I say about the corn exchange but um I just just felt I might not have been been clear enough about that so on the corn
Exchange the way I read what’s uh written in the report about this is very much that we’re talking um about a about a business um the corn exchange and I feel that this component of the of the package of three more than any of the others is appropriate to be to be
Thought of in terms of um the disciplines of um let’s call it a loan and a payback because this is an an income generative business the large parts of the cases to to embark on it are about um improving um our income from it and reducing our costs associated with it
And I think that it would be a be really a good discipline to start thinking about tackling what we want to do as part of a of a proper robust borrowing exercise whether that was internal borrowing or external borrowing we can construct the same discipline around it I’m sure um because
I think that we need to draw a distinction between the Market Square which is simply there for for everyone um and the place that the the Guild Hall where it’s kind of the local government of the city for everyone um the exchange yeah it makes an indirect contribution for everyone but it it’s
Predominantly for people who pay to go there and you know I hope they carry on doing so and I hope they do so in more numbers and spend more money there and all the rest but I think that we should expect to get back what we put in to the
Improvements we’re talking about and I just this is an appeal for can we please when we focus on this part of the project kind of think of it that way because I think that otherwise it does become a bit more difficult to justify to The Wider public who probably who may
Not have set foot in the corn exchange ever before um may have no plans to in the future and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that there are other sources of Art and entertainment in the city that people can choose um so um that was my point about that and I just
Put it out there if anyone could comment on it that’ be very interesting thank you chair yeah um I think we mustn’t over or underestimate the potential of of uh conferencing connection with the Guild Hall and the corn exchange so while there’s music that goes on it’s much loved as an
Institution there are times when it is not in use that could be in use for uh conferences of a wide variety so it’s I think it’s that’s that’s the additional value that’s worth exploring um certainly in terms of income generation for the council and the other aspect is
That um it mentions in the report the two types of concerts stand up and sit down concerts and I think one’s £1 pound and one is ound which is quite low compared to other conference venues not just in Cambridge or in London um but elsewhere and you know a small increase because the
Um having a drink in the corn exchange or however the designers see their Vision um can certainly make a big difference a to the local economy and be to the council so I think I think it’s not just as simple as just reducing cost and increasing income it’s about the
Wider visitor attraction there and that’s that’s what we’ll want to bring back the November uh Committee just to demonstrate that vision and uh Improvement overall Council Simon you wanted to make a contribution um I I have a great deal of sympathy with um the com the comments
Council bck has made but there are wider considerations which might not enable us to fully realize a pure business proposition here um it is a listed building and it is in a relatively poor state of repair and it’s subject to a long-term capital expenditure to maintain the buildings uh
Prop the state which is more than the cost more than the profits from actual running the the the the Enterprise um it is also um a building and a a venue of regional significance and I think there a very good reason why the cor exchange has attracted the
Funding from cpca because it because it is a an asset that’s used by people across the county and and Beyond and this work will um the key objectives of it is is um as bener said it aims to increase spend per head increase usage so that we
Do make the assets sweat but at the same time we’ll be delivering wider range of um events for wider audiences than we currently do can I just ask a question about this the improving the Energy Efficiency and sustainability of the Corn exchange because it’s now 40 years since we
Converted it into a uh entertainment venue and I remember when we did that we had a big debate about um whether to put in a a balcony and upstairs bit it would not have succeeded without that but it was a big debate at the time I remember
Is now the time for us to be do the next step of re restoring the building and making it more sustainable just just to come out I I thought that’s what the project was trying to do um but I maybe may be wrong um no I just to go back to the point
That was raised about um the direct direct return to the to the council from this sort of investment um and The Wider the a wider benefit I absolutely get the difference but it would be great if we tried to accomplish both at the same time it’s not necessarily that they’re mutually
Exclusive and if we did come to a place where we said that’s the direct return that pays for itself but we need to do a bit more then at least we should know and quantify what that bit more is and and say well we did that for that reason
And that was for the wider Community um which we felt was justified but I I just think that the discipline on this part of the project is important so that we know what we’re doing and we don’t cross over into subsidizing something that is for paying customers
Only what I was trying to do was to add to the report was in the public report there’s very little about it’s it’s Energy Efficiency just as a one line I think there is much more in the in the background papers which of we can’t discuss those in detail but the concept
Of sustainability is certainly in there I believe can you confirm that b yes I mean the I think you we note your points and um there’s a level of detail yet to come but we order we need to spend a bit of money now to get that information to understand that that
You’re right to be disciplined on the corn exchange I take your point Al benett hi my issue with the corn Exchange program is that um we actually have relatively good cultural facilities for a small city of this size if uh our cultural facilities are to have a robust
Future we really must increase visitor numbers and those must be longer term visitors not just day Trippers coming up on the train from London who cannot stay late enough to attend evening events on the corn exchange and if we are to achieve this it actually needs a more strategic rethink of our tourism
Policy and this is just yet another reason why I feel that we are rushing this project and we need to do a bit more overall strategic thinking First Council Holloway sorry if I missed this in the papers but it says the turnover for the coin exchange exceeds 2 million is the
There’s the significant operating cost per anom I don’t know if I’ve missed this but is there a figure on the operating cost per year or these uh profit or loss per year because I think councelor Smith did refer to there being an overall loss each year maybe I’ve missed that but could you
Clarify that we yeah we don’t have um direct figure on profit or loss for for the corn exchange not not so much about the operational side in terms of um the the amount of Concepts that go on what we’re interested in is if we make improvements improvements design improvements what impact could they
Bring what incremental impact can that bring to the corn exchange and The Wider Civic qu that that’s one one aspect sorry shall I depare it’s fine to say we I don’t have them to hand counselor Holloway because I wasn’t here to speak on this item but
We do have that information and I would also like to say that the cor exchange is very busy it has large numbers of people coming through and a very diverse and well love program obviously I would say that having had that in my portfolio but I’m in here many evenings and when I
Leave many nights I see the cues down corn Exchange Street for people waiting to get in to the building but CC Hol we can get you the information I just don’t have it to hand thank you any further contributions C Davy it’s a it’s a general contribution if we
Finished on specifics I don’t I Look to council if there’s any more detail um the general comment if it’s if it’s okay if you could indulge me for a second chair um uh I I’ve been to many meetings uh since I’ve become a counselor but this one was really really
Important and really valuable um the this is about the future of the city center and therefore it has to be scrutinized effectively and efficiently and uh I think this has been a really good start to that process so I welcome contributions from Council Bennett and uh councelor Bick I thank Ben for
All his work on this but if we’re to get this right we’re going to have to make sure that process is ongoing and that we’re open and transparent so leaving aside the fact there was a number of papers that are confidential today whilst members got to see it members of
The public didn’t but I think this is a good start and I’d just like to thank uh my colleague my other leaders for their Pro part of this and pleased to keep it because it is so significant to the city such a massive investment if you have comments please include us informally as
Well as formally if we need to get this right we are custodians for the city this is just a brief we’re a brief period of time this so we need to get this absolutely spot on so again the better the scrutiny the more the scrutiny the more
Welcome right I think we shall wind up on this item then so uh the recommendations are on page 68 can I take you there uh you’ve got a page of recommendations there I see all those in favor please sure oh sorry thank you no was not I don’t think those
Against oh jeez one against thank you sorry the the recommendation said have a small correction to add the chair and spokes is involvement in two places uh they’ve really got that that’s all the amendment is make sure we’re we’re all fully engaged in it everybody’s happy with that though
Okay right councelor Smith would you like to recommend on this I’m I’m pleased to accept recommendation chair thank you thank you right now I think we need a break we’ve been going for well over two hours two and a half half hours so we’ll have
A break for 10 minutes shall we so we’ll be back in at quarter 8 right we’re restarting the strategy and resources committee meeting for item eight which which is on Harry which is of course the new name for the Northeast area OFA Cambridge around C road now the report is entirely uh
Containing exempt information uh we should be therefore we should be excluding the press and public I need your approval to do that though so can I see all those in favor of excluding the press in public unanimous chair okay thank you very much so now we drop the live feed that