https://www.20questions.life/
https://quantgene.com/
https://getserenity.life/
Jo Bhakdi is the Founder and CEO of Quantgene with the mission to extend the healthy human life span by a decade within a decade. Together with Quantgene’s team of scientists and engineers, he is dedicated to introducing cloud, AI, and precision diagnostics into the standard of care to enhance the quality and accessibility of care for everyone and protect human life. Born to scientist parents, Jo grew up with a backdrop of medical research before earning a Master’s in Economics from Tubingen University, one of Germany’s leading academic institutions. Prior to Quantgene, Jo held executive positions at BDDO and Omnicom with a focus on business model innovation and technology, then founded i2X, an investment platform that provides quantitative analytics for biotechnology and technology portfolios.
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What is going on guys welcome to another episode of the mask and Health Solutions podcast where I am joined by Joe backu who’s going to basically give us the lowdown on how AI can use basically be used to our advantage when it comes to our health but Joe first and foremost
How are you today sir pretty good thanks for having me oh man it’s an honor and honestly I want to get your backstory into what got you making this connection between Ai and health man how did you put yourself position yourself and how did your life basically bring you to
This point because it’s a very interesting topic it’s a long story and it’s all started when I was Zero when I was born I was born in a very medical household I had like two parents my mom and my dad um who are both very passionate life science researchers and
Doctors so I was they were at Max plank in Germany which is too complicated to explain but that’s where the research happens in Germany yeah it’s a Institute it’s like a network of institutes that have kind of the best brands in German to work on all kinds of issues but also
Medical and they were both in microbiology and you know cellular cellular research in clinical use so I grew up in this household and from zero to 19 at home I got like every dinner conversation was about membranes and Alpha Toxin and you know cholesterol and all kinds of things and antibiotics so I
Got like a first very closeup view I grew up in that world of how does medical research actually work and also my dad was um in charge of the microbi biological Departments of one state in Germany so I saw all these complicated cases mostly where primary care
Physicians messed up and people died so I was always on the back end of seeing how medicine goes wrong because all the complex infectious disease cases came to him and he was telling us about oh this happened and this happened oh they didn’t ask the right questions they gave
The wrong medications so maybe I have a little skewed perspective on medicine because of that because for me medicine was mostly cleaning up other other people’s messes which is a skew perspective but that’s just what I experienced so even though I have great respect for Physicians everywhere and
They’re doing mostly a great job but there’s also a very big problem that no one wants to talk about medical errors all the stuff that goes wrong every day and I mean one statistic is just 600,000 Americans die every single year avoidable deaths technically that’s a failure of medicine because avoidable
Means you need to invent nothing new in terms of hard medical Technologies this is all present but it’s being applied the wrong way and that includes preventive care which leads me now to my passion for medical intelligence right I then studied actually economics did some quantitative finance things because I
Thought what about the money someone has to pay for all that stuff but I was always curious about medicine but there’s an organizational and theoretic piece to medicine that doctors don’t learn about like how does the money flow who finances this why we pay for certain
Things and not for other things that are all medically sound what about incentive systems and stuff like that and now it came all you know circled all back over the last few years that I got into genomics we founded a great company quane that does all kinds of complex
Genomics work and in genomics the problem of medical intelligence which means making sense of data in medicine so you protect lives and patients which is the biggest Gap in medicine where is the medical intelligence why do we make mistakes when it’s unnecessary um in genomics is especially pronounced because genomics is so
Complicated so much data and so new and no one is trained in it no physician gets a genomics education and all of that led to the creation of Serenity which is our medical intelligence solution in preventative care for all patients to actually understand what’s going on with them
And of course that coincided then with the AI Revolution that’s happening right now and that’s a very important piece of the equation and the vision here is very simple can you create a portal where patients just go to they enter their information and it tells them what’s
Wrong or not wrong with them and in a way that no doctor can do right in a much much more comprehensive way considering all data points the entire medical literature 32 million Publications all textbooks all the latest guidelines across the world that’s like millions of times more knowledge or data than any physician
Carry in their brain that is the future because what we don’t want is you going to a physic or going somewhere or having symptoms or prevention right where you don’t even have symptoms and you just want to know what do I have to do and
Having any gaps in your care you want to make sure there’s Total Medical Intelligence on you so tell you don’t do that do that don’t take that drug take that drug change the dosage here or telling you you need you need more information you need to do the following
Blood tests or Imaging or genomics in order for us to even make an informed decision so medicine is not just looking at you and making a decision it’s also looking at you and saying what data points are missing what tests do we need to conduct for more certainty how do
They play together and then make an informed decision and then go from there that is wow that is super interesting because the one thing that I found really captivating about what you just said there is you’re basically taking all the data that we have in medicine combining
Into one and making it this perfect formula and you are taking the individual into consideration which is something that I think is probably and I mean even from your perspective you probably saw that it was lacking because a lot of people would make generalizations right of course I mean that’s in
Preventative care for example we have all these guidelines when you should get cancer screenings let’s take one example like okay women over 21 should get this and that you know should get papsmear every three years whatever it is right or mamogram starting with 40 well says who and for what kind of
Patient and then you have other guidelines that a lot of primary care dogs are not totally familiar with right if you’re at high risk you need more screenings because your odds of having cancer is much higher okay so if you have a patient that is high risk and you
Bucket them as regular risk you’re already off you’re already doing something wrong and how often does that happen well in 90% of cases that happens of the highrisk P they have misclassified why because the doctor doesn’t know they high risk because how would you know well because you need
Genetic testing okay then there’s another rule under what circumstances is there enough suspicion to conduct a genetic test to determine that someone’s high risk while yeah there’s a set of rules but who knows these rules does your primary care you ubn know these rules did they and then there’s more
Data you have to you have to get before you can make this decision did you ask the patient for their family history sufficiently because that’s the trigger point did you ask them if their aunt and their uncle and their grandpa and their mom and who had OBGYN cancers do you
Know the latest guidelines like what if two aunts had breast cancer or four aunts but not the mom okay and not the grandma so is that then high risk or not so all these things you know everything the devil is in the details and this yeah sounds like
Too many details but when it’s you or your wife or your mom or whoever then it’s just not funny right this should not be missed and this is all known Medical Science just do it right and you will save hundreds of thousands of lives and no doctor can do it right because
Just too much they need complimentary AI systems that do that for them yeah that’s why Serenity no that’s honestly man it’s pretty mind-blowing because yeah it’s like you’re taking all those data points and like you said I don’t think any one doctor can really look at any individual and really figure all
This out because we are all different jigsaws I guess and it’s kind of like we’re putting all the pieces together to really make it make sense and I guess that’s where Serenity comes in to really you know solidify the fact that hey we can put this puzzle together but we got
To make sure that we can do it in a way that makes sense this is conducive to the result that we actually want the the way I kind of interpret it too it’s like having like 50 different opinions in one spot that kind of makes sense because
It’s taken in so much data from so many different places but that being said the one question I have now because that also ties into the 20 questions right specifically what are these 20 Questions looking for when it builds a profile up for a human being
So the way we designed these systems is there’s a commercial component to it because if we sell you on Serenity complete which is an annual Precision screening that does full body Imaging it does full genomics and it does full medical intelligence that cost you roughly 5,000 bucks for 400 a month
Roughly so not everyone can afford that actually a lot of people can right roughly 20 million people easily can in the US but then 300 million have a problem with it so therefore we decided we need easier to access programs too where we maybe don’t do all of the
Precision Diagnostics right off the band and we created sendy Foundation which is like a kind of a $50 per month product or500 $600 a year where you get full medical intelligence without these Advanced Diagnostics so basically answer a ton of questions and serenity Foundation is a ton of questions uh to
Actually get your profile right and then you have medical review and a onetoone session and you learn all about okay where do I stand what’s going on here uh including if you have symptoms or diagnosis before or just preventative whatever your Cas is and then we invented also a product that is even
Leaner and that we are actually giving out for free so everyone can get base intelligence and that’s the can these 20 Questions save your life TM how is it like that’s the product 20 questions. live and that is basically a further reduced versions of Serenity Foundation where you don’t get a physician review
You don’t get the full counseling because it costs money so we want to make it free as an entry point and it’s a little less detailed because we wanted to make sure people can actually answer 20 Questions technically it’s 20 20 like mobile sites of questions so it’s a little more
Questions but it’s 20 categories of questions and um now we get to the point why this is so why did it take a whole team of us to build that stuff why can’t you just go to CAD GPT or something and and the answer is when I say medical intelligence that is not
That doesn’t equate to artificial intelligence even though AI plays a major role it’s not you cannot do that just with AI right you need to have very smart piping in the cloud like what are you actually asking why are you asking it who controls this to make sure
There’s no mistake in here and you cannot just ask CPD it’s going to tell you the wrong answer so medical intelligence needs to be bulletproof right when you answer the 20 questions you will get a dashboard and a guiding system that is correct because if it
Would not be correct it would be in big trouble right we cannot tell people oh you late to a mamogram or do this Diagnostics and be wrong so that need that’s a whole different type of medical intelligence system that is like more bulletproof than an AI system
Alone and you basically answer the base questions that we determined are necessary they’re informed by guidelines right so the medical guidelines make certain decisions if you need certain things and in order to make these decisions they have clearly delineated data points what they need to make these decisions and so we basically reverse
Engineered that all the guidelines and what are all the data points to actually feed these guidelines to make these decisions finally and so that’s how we we reverse engineer the questions and then make them dble make sure they’re still compliant there all kinds of redundancies so the the engineer is a
Little complicated because can’t make mistakes you can’t just points and then but I mean it’s a very good user experience in my opinion it’s very easy to answer the questions um and yeah it helps you to immediately see where you stand like are you fully protected or not based on like hard
Medical guidelines that’s super interesting man and to your point about medical intelligence because yeah I think we’ve all kind of messed around with chat about GPT and all that kind of stuff and it’s kind of it’s very Broad and at at times it misses the mark completely you know because I’ve gone on
There and just looked at different things and different components and asset things and it’s very generic it’s kind of it’s not going to give you a detailed version of what you’re actually looking for unless you know how to prompt it very specifically and to your point about using AI as another tool I
Think that’s the one thing that’s missing out when it comes to AI is a lot of people think oh I can use it for everything and anything but it’s just super broad it’s like sure it takes in a lot of data but it’s kind of undirected
Data so it’s just kind of like gives you spits out this like poer of Randomness which nobody is really satisfied with because it doesn’t really answer the question but to your point about having that direction to it and taking in the specifics and obviously I guess you guys
Are kind of reworking the algorithm every single time you update it too right yeah I mean when we talk about the intelligence architecture um especially for serenity foundation for the 20 Questions we kept it very tight because this needs to be a fully automated system to be free that is never wrong
And in order to get there you need to tighten up the screws and you have to reduce complexity so this is focused on preventative care strategies right that are fully guide us guideline based and that’s it so you cannot tell the 20 questions I also have tummy pain and I
Also have a weird finding on my whole blood count and I also have that diagnosis I a be nine tum more and my Beary gland or something 20 p is not going to take it it’s like well good for you but I’m not going to say anything about that whereas in there any
Foundation we have a fullscale medical intelligence system right you can tell at anything and we make in nearly all cases more sense of it than most doctors other than our own doctors of course I mean our doctors get it but there we have a much more advanced much more open
AI system that basic can take in any kind of information connect the dots and give us differential diagnosis and downstream recommendations but of course we’re not giving that to patients right that goes into our Medical Group and our medical intelligence unit so we have a medical intelligence unit that just does that
That’s a new discipline be invented right so have medical Intelligence Officers they sit on our AI systems they review your case they make sense of it they write it all up but then they send it to the medical group The Medical Group reviews it and says are there any
Weird things you’re saying here is this all medically Super Sound and if not it goes back in with comments and say like well you can’t we can’t say that we can’t say that there are these and these so there’s a sanity check with medical professionals but there’s also a huge
Medical intelligence component where we can see much much more and the systems that feed that are large language models and they are you know we basically customized them and and gave them some more deep understanding of medicine which basically means like all kinds of Publications and textbooks and all kinds
Of stuff you have to actually buy like commercially and like feed the system with it so when you ask medical questions to get high resolution responses right you you’re on kruder and you have this type of cancer and you have you know it’s triple negative breast cancer and these are the genetic
Findings what is the exact cycle of chemo treatments that is recommended like things like that is gonna be a little weak on that I don’t think it would even be accurate to tell you the truth it probably just give you something very broad but in in regards
To that too because if you’re finding out somebody’s profile would you be able to make recommendations as far like almost from like a nutritional standpoint or be like hey you know what you lack vitamin I don’t know B12 or something you could be using this that and the other are there nutritional
Guidelines that it would actually spit out for a person as well or yeah we have to be always cautious because especially in genetics uh we all have we got used to all these consumer companies and they’re saying telling you all the things don’t eat vitamin C and you can’t
Digest kale or whatever all of that stuff might just not be true right that’s the problem like there is a whole it sounds great it’s a a great consumer experience but is it true so there’s a huge difference between deep medical companies like Serenity and what Quin does and these consumer facing genetic
Companies because they may might make your experience great and sounds all great but is it true like what about the scientific side of it and when we do things we just need to be right right there needs to be clear clinical evidence significant levels of the the entire practice of medicine there’s all
Kinds of things you need to understand right this is not for obviously yeah and we basically introduce that level of discipline into everything we we we do because it’s Medical Practice what we do uh and so we shy away a little bit from too shallow recommendations that just might not be
True even though that sound great yeah because everyone wants to hear oh yeah you can totally benefit from omega3 and don’t you know reduce your sodium intake because of your genetics sounds great but like no one knows if that’s true what it’s true is everyone can benef from that
So we give people nutritional advice because one of the most common problems you find actually is hypertension high cholesterol lipids are off A1 C is off and people need to go in a fasting regime and clean out their their nutrition to just get these core biomarkers down that’s actually
Medically very sound and we are investing more into nutrition guidance because that is very important that’s a weakness of medicine but it’s not like saying oh you know we found this genetic variant therefore don’t eat fish or something that’s not it’s more like here’s a big picture here your core
Problems medically here’s your risk and your trajectory you you’re going to get diabetes or you’re going to get you cardiovascular conditions if you don’t turn this around if you don’t turn these markers around and then we say here is a nutritional and exercise strategy that is proven to actually help you and then
You we have these packages you can buy where we say like do you want a coach do you want someone who calls you once a week to get through the nutrition with you so that’s what we are building up more because in the end it’s all about medically sound and precise advice
That is proven to work based on findings that are clear and then guiding systems and guiding infrastructure for the patient so you can actually do this stuff we don’t say oh good luck right just figure out better that’s not going to work that’s very interesting too
Because I’ve had other guests on who are talking about approaching it more from a team based approach as well when it comes to medicine right and how you got to look at the different factors that play into it and it’s interesting how you brought up the whole coaching aspect
As well because that’s one thing that I find in regards to medicine it’s kind of always been siloed off like this guy’s a specialist here that guy’s specialist there and it’s always kind of been separate and it’s one of those things that I think has led to a lot of
Confusion to your point earlier about how you know we’ve had about 600,000 mistakes made that costed people them basically their lives right and and I think with a system that’s more integrated into lifestyle and obviously involving different things that actually make sense it’s going to give you far
Better results so as far as screenings kind of go how does that play into preventative Healthcare as well so when you look at the medical piece of preventative health care this is all about screenings right that’s the main thing you can do so screenings are very life-saving in the sense that it’s
The most proven method to actually protect your life when you look at cancer for example cancer is kind of a problem because even if you have the best lifestyle you can you’re reducing your risk of cancer like not by much actually uh if you have diabetes you
Double your risk of cancer so not having diabetes is a good idea but just eating a little healthier or avoiding red meat if you look at the statistics that’s not moving the needle too much right so you can maybe reduce your cancer risk through these kinds of measures by some
Unknown maybe 10% but you can be the healthiest person on Earth and just get cancer yeah and so and that’s why you know over onethird of all people get cancer in their lives that’s a statistic that no one wants to hear but that’s just what
It is and it’s a little scary um that’s why cancer is the number one cause of death in the age group from 35 to 75 so in the where it actually matters where it really Cuts your life short it’s cancer not cardiovascular that kills the most people and that’s why everyone is
So scared of cancer and when you look at all the things you can do cancer for like mod treatments blah blah blah do all kinds of stuff there’s only one measure outside smoking don’t smoke there’s only one measure that really moves the needle and that is early
Detection yeah right if you look at breast cancer colon cancer lung all the deadliest cancers detecting them in stage one in many cases gives you a 90 to 99% chance of survival and detecting them in stage four puts you into 10% 5% survival chance and think about what that means
Like yeah I mean that is a pretty devastating differential there and so it’s kind of not really discussed too much in public we have these big screening guidelines because of that and spend billions of dollars on screenings but we spend trillions of dollars on on treatments right so for you personally I
Always recommend to people to understand this math that these diseases are not like wait until you get the disease and then do all kinds of magic treatments that’s not how works you you’re in bad shape at this point this is a probabilistic problem throughout your entire life it’s an area under the curve
You have 40 years or 50 years or 60 years to live you need to make sure you have maximum protection throughout that time span and protection means you need to intercept these types of diseases neurodegenerative metabolic diabetes and so on cardiovascular cancer you need to intercept it at the earliest stage that
Is what makes you not die nothing else like of course being healthy and on metabolic that’s also very important but other than that nothing else keeps you really alive like what keeps you alive is you need a web of annual Precision screenings that’s what I see as the
Future that makes sure you can’t get these diseases late stage and then you would basically reduce your risk of death by roughly 50% in that time that interesting and with let’s say with 20 questions would you be able to because the way I kind of see it I think you’re
100% right because that’s kind of one of the biggest issues that nobody wants to talk about is like hey you know what it’s a real dirty thing let’s you sweep it under the rug and hopefully I don’t get it you know it’s kind of like we’re
All playing uh we’re all playing cat and mouse and I you know I see it all the time everywhere and even at where I work too there’s guys where it’s kind of like you know it’s it’s it shows up there it’s not like it doesn’t exist but we
All like to pretend that it doesn’t because it’s not a part of our lives and you know a lot of people brush it off as one of those things like oh it won’t happen to me it won’t happen to me but we all know somebody that’s died from it
That’s kind of the irony of it right but but to your point um in regards to prevention and stuff would it be possible to almost keep it at Bay for the rest of your life if you had the proper let’s say screening or preventative measures kind of in place
To make sure that you’re pretty much good just from doing the 20 questions and following up with that every single day um well of course there’s a reason why Serenity complete cost 5,000 bucks and the questions are free and Foundation cost 500 bucks it reflects a little bit the 20 questions are big
Needle mover to really help you for free to get this under control but of course it’s standard of care screenings right there is no right now no physician no Primary Care dog can or recommend screening for pancreatic cancer for liver cancer for kidney cancer for lung
Cancer even for one small person uh so for leukemia so even for melanoma so the screenings the screening regime we currently have in place the 20 Questions reflect standard of care right they do what is officially the guideline plan in the United States for preventive care we
Know that this is the stuff that is the most cost effective and most widely recognize that you just need to do that if you don’t do that you’re just not in good shape right yeah so that’s what the 20 questions do and so that is a great starting point especially if you don’t
Want to spend money to just make sure you do whatever you can that is in the standard of care now if you ask me I’m doing C complete every year of course because I’m not going to take any risks like I want to also know have liver cancer because that’s killing you even
Faster only that it’s less likely to happen than colon cancer which is Yeah so basically if you spend more and we brought this price down dramatically right anyone else who does these kinds of things charges you 20 30,000 bucks for this so we brought it down to 5,000
That’s what we believe should be the gold standard the highest standard of screening if people can’t afford it the 20 questions get you the Baseline in that the United States basically everyone one pays for that for these kind of tests um but they leave out a
Bunch of key cancers and also a bunch of other conditions for cost issues like the healthare system so you have to view it like that the 20 questions is much much better than not having the 20 questions if you can afford it I would go toity
Foundation and say like why not having a full review phys and also like go a little Beyond just prevention and see anything that might be there and if you can afford like 400 bucks a month don’t don’t skip that rest do a full body Mi scan and do a full genomics
Cancer detection thing once a year because you want to just intercept these signals early yeah and I mean to your point it’s kind of funny that you you were you were telling me the numbers and I’m like I’m pretty sure that all Pals in comparison to actually suffering from
One of these diseases and what you have to pay right and I I find it because the more I read into this it’s kind of like obesity diabetes every other metabolic disease involved cancers all this stuff is just crippling you know you know I live in Canada right and even our econom
Is getting hit hard because I mean all these things are so awful but they come at a very high price which is why it’s kind of something like this are you guys looking at find a way to integrate it with the health insurance in the United
States and Canada or or is there any way that you know you guys could get that going because I mean I think competitive care would be make a lot more sense this goes deep into this goes deep into like a bigger discussion about the future of healthcare and we believe a lot of
People bash the American system course when you look at the face value compared to Germany Canada like other places everyone has their own system Germany has this hybrid system where it’s like half private half public which is probably the one of the best Solutions but still bad then Canada is very Single Payer
That has a problem and then the US is just wild I can’t even describe it it’s it’s kind of a free corrupted lots of lobbying lots of weird constraints by the government but then also wild capitalism mixed into that that so it’s like a weird it’s definitely not free
Market it’s definitely not socialized it’s some weird thing yeah and that has terrible consequences for some people because you can get these crazy invoices here get a blood draw and it’s like 3,000 bucks it’s 50,000 no one knows why but in Canada you have these weight times
You have a lack of innovation so everyone has their problems and the reality is to cut it short like the Story the only way to get the future of medicine engineered is through an entrepreneurial activity and through to selfes in the beginning if you don’t pay out of pocket for this stuff you’re
Already in deep trouble because the problem is the commercial insurance or government they have totally different interests from you and that’s like what people have to understand it’s not hard to understand if I am an insurance company a company I have a goal and the goal is to deliver profits every quarter
Like here in that equation does your life come in well it comes in in the sense like don’t spend too much money on this guy like minimize expenses that’s the design of health insurance companies how is that in your interest like it’s just not in your interest no if you’re
The government they always the government is a little better incentivized because you’re they’re not going to escape their responsibility so for example preventative care we know some was life saving we know some some was even process saving the commercial insurance doesn’t care because for the commercial insurance the median the
Median uh dwell time or stay time for a patient in one plan is two and a half years here so what are the odds if you have all the spend on detection early detection that that pays off I tell you the odds are roughly zero% because either you don’t detect
Anything then you wasted your money on doing stuff that doesn’t detect anything or you do detect something early that’s a total waste of your money because that person would have gotten cancer probably after they leave your plan so not only did you never have these bad costs your
Competitor would have it but also you incurred now early treatment cost like an additional 50,000 for early stage cancer treat so you’re just front loading costs and not offloading long-term costs because you wouldn’t have these costs you only have late stage cancer patients you unfortunately now in your plan but early detection
Doesn’t remove them because they’re already they’re already too late so there you have a real capitalist problem because there’s zero incentive to do anything and then for the government they say like oh isn’t it smart to do early detention well yes to some extent if it’s cheap but if it’s
Expensive that’s a different equation right there’s there’s all kinds of Economics behind it if you spend a certain amount of money in average it’s like this 50,000 quality dollar quality thing like quality adjusted life years so basically there is some implicit thing no one wants to really talk about
But all the academics say that’s basically the decision threshold if the extension of life of a full quality life year so quality adjust life so you’re like fully healthy or like years quity there has a price t on it between 50 and $100,000 more like $50,000 if that costs more than $50,000
To achieve that you’re getting clipped like they say it’s just not worth it and the 50,000 could mean for example spend $50,000 on screening a thousand people 50 bucks each to save one person what to extend one person’s life in full quality of life for one year if that’s the case that’s
The you say that screening is not worth it and now from your perspective how many people in the United States would say if you buy me one full year of Life at full quality would I spend 50,000 or 100,000 or a million dollars on that you have
Millions of people would spend a million dollars on that so there’s a disconnect they’re making that are not aligned to your value of your life and since no one understands that stuff the Scandal is like not that big but a lot of people who are rich in the United States they
Have coner stocks because they kind of understand it’s like well they’re just going to clip me and I don’t want to get clipped and I I’m willing to spend 100,000 per year to not die once people become fully aware of these equations they understand okay do not rely on the
Government and in Canada don’t get me started same thing yeah 50,000 bucks goodbye like and and that’s not no one want it’s an very uncomfortable conversation but that’s just the fact and this whole thing oh Healthcare is a right for all it’s not about rights it’s
About who pays for that stuff and where do these resources come from there’s no right there like we need to make it work otherwise it just doesn’t work and then and then people don’t want to talk about and say this is so bad and then what’s the solution well not have any
Progress for anyone because some people can’t afford it so let’s all die that’s like we need to start somewhere and I think the right move is create a do the best in technology to make these things much more affordable have wealthier people pay for better protection they help us build the
Evidence and get scale we can bring down the price become more inclusive we get more evidence and at some point we have the price so low and the evidence so high that we can do a public campaign to force government insurance Medicare to actually adopt it that’s the only way to
Get this done there is no debate and back back room deals you can only do this fully in public do it with people who can afford it bring down the price create more evidence and create increasing public pressure on getting these systems and lower prices so ites
Diges for governments to get that done and the last piece of the equation’s commercial insurance because they will move last they will move after Medicare interesting no it’s kind of I mean a lot to digest but it makes perfect sense it’s kind of like right
Now the way I kind of see it is I gotta act as a singular entity anyways so I got to take my life into my hands and I can’t really rely on anybody and I think a lot of people like not just in Canada but in the states as well are always
Kind of looking for that government handout or for somebody to really fix their issues but at the end of the day it’s kind of like lifestyle choices like ultimately it boils down to you and now like on this show the guys that listen to the show and everybody that’s you
Know paying attention to this is we’re all really looking to move the needle for ourselves because we’re just kind of like okay we want to make sure we’re healthy we’re one step ahead of the curve however for all the people that want to stay behind you know
Unfortunately you got to rely on these systems that they have in place but to your point the disconnect lies in that is that they don’t value your life and it’s true it’s like even here they started introducing the assisted suicides or euthanasia I think it was
Where it’s kind of like an easier way it’s like hey you know you can suffer how about we just you know send you to the next Dimension and it’s like all right cool you know I’ll just get that it’s very socialized medicine right it’s not that they don’t understand the
Numbers they understand the numbers very well like okay assisting like keeping that person alive cost us $150,000 a year we have 10,000 of these people in Canada or 50,000 they do the math like oops that’s a few billion maybe assist suicide sounds like a great
Idea and I tell you this is not just driven by ethics it’s also driven by very unethical considerations and you can’t even blame people I mean in the end money is money like even though everyone thinks it’s dirty and oh a human life in the end someone has to
Generate the money and if you don’t have the money it’s game over it’s like what are you gonna do and this is all very complex the good news that’s my message to everyone the good good news is don’t make it complex make it about you exactly and if it’s
About you don’t don’t hope that Trudeau or whoever or Trump or Biden or whoever is in charge if you think oh I’m Outsourcing my health to the White House you’re just nuts because guess what happens next you’re just gonna die and we have to learn that we
Are in charge of our bodies and health yeah like that’s the end of the story and if you it’s like everything in life it’s like Outsourcing your fin an es to to the treasury or something right they’re not going to help you get rich they just don’t care and stupid and I
Won’t get like I need to work I need to safe I need to invest smart if I do stupid stuff I’m gonna lose my money well guess what what’s more important than money it’s your health and if you think you can Outsource this to your doctor even your doctor or to your
Insurance company or the government you get killed I can guarantee you that so yeah you need to understand you need to take care of this is you need to find Solutions like Serenity or the 20 question we try to make it as cheap or free as possible where you have
Entrepreneurial teams like quantin like you know Serenity or other people who try this and just find just you know make up your own mind and view it as any kind of product only that’s the most important product in your life because it’s your life yeah and just you know
Listen to me listen to other people and cast your own judgment you think Joe is crazy then go to the next guy or do you think he says interesting things and look at his stuff like just treat it as something that you have to deal with and
Try to build your own solution where you have trusted advisor systems platforms doctors who you think listen to you are smart advisors emphasis on advisors you’re the CEO of your own body and health you make the decisions not the doctor and you expect your doctors to feed you the
Right information and be smart consultants and experts and if they are not then switch which yeah but no to your point it’s kind of like that’s the best way to look about is yeah the one thing that will always Trump everything else in this lifetime in our human
Bodies is our health and for me it’s kind of like I don’t see it I see it as a no-brainer you know 5K versus you know to 50K 200k a year that you could possibly be paying for chemo and all these other different you know I’m just call it reactive medicine
Because that’s kind of what I feel the system is right now it’s always reactive and to your point it’s kind of like it it’s not in their best interest to be preventative and now from economical kind of standpoint I’m like well it makes perfect sense you know it does not
Serve them in any which way to be preventative at all which is the one thing that we are all looking for as individuals which is the ironic the tragic irony in this situation right yeah exactly and that’s yeah I I think that’s why podcast like you are great to have these
Discussions so people get a little red pill or whatever you call it like that they they’re all you oh yeah it’s like oh human life you want to protect it and the system we want to be socialized medicine blah it’s very simple it’s always about money and the advantage of
Capitalist systems which they’re not super corrupted which they are a little bit in the US but the government is also involved in the end you just have to understand you have to take care of your health it’s going to cost money and being sick costs you much more money and
If you think you can close your eyes and Outsource it to some insurance is is not going to happen and also it’s going to drive up the cost so you pay Che more in the end indirectly and I think you know people just have to understand that they have
To come to grips with the fact that especially in preventative care there is no this is an uncontrolled system right they’re not paying attention and that’s your key lever to stay healthy and you need to you need to own that problem and you need to find solutions that help you
Own the problem and it’s going to cost a little bit of money but not crazy amounts I mean Sandy Foundation a $500 per year product so that’s like 45 bucks a month so you need some form of starting or 20 Questions free start there so I think that’s my message like that
Everyone understands number one prevention is the key to not getting these chronic conditions The Chronic conditions are 80% of all deaths so that’s your problem prevention is the solution and within preven screening and detection is the biggest needle mover besides lifestyle and being in good shape but that’s related because these
People will tell you that so that’s a related thing and your primary care dog is probably not doing the best job because they have many issue right they don’t have the technology they don’t have the time and attention they don’t have the you know patient guiding systems they can just
Meet you once a year and tell you something and you need to upgrade that’s what I would recommend yeah and that to your point no I think it makes perfect sense and it goes back to the individual because you know I like I’m a coach and
I tell people how to eat what to eat and when I’m working with people they’re receptive because they paid for it which now means that they have a contract with me and they want to do what I tell them because it’s kind of like hey you know I
Invested in you I want to follow your directions now when you put this out into the general public and I’ll just tell people when they ask me about hey you know I want to get in shape what should I do how long will it take for me
To get abs and I’ll be like you’re going to ask me and you’re not going to apply absolutely any of it you know and I know that because I know a lot of people just kind of want to hear the information and will never apply and never spew My Hope
Is that the people listening you know will obviously take this into consideration and say hey preventative medicine is because I kind of feel like this is we’re shifting out of an old system and I feel like preventative medicine is one of those things that’s really going to be on the Forefront of
Where we’re going now because it needs to be I think but I also feel that that goes down to the the responsibility of everybody as a singular person you know as a singular organism it’s kind of like do you want to take responsibility or do
You not do you want to keep relying on somebody else on a broken system right but I really hope that you know everybody listening hey go to 20 I’m going to make sure I got all the links in the description for sure but I really
Hope that this is going to be the way Medicine of the future because I think it’s the only thing that really makes sense if we want to live longer I mean if we want to keep dying the way we are then you know the current medical system
In place is just is doing a fantastic job yeah absolutely I think uh yeah that’s what what has to happen I think I mean I’m not that pessimistic I know a lot of people say oh people are just not going to listen we have to you know we have
To we have to view it more like any other like product that you’re launching Some People Want it and some people don’t want it I I think it’s that simp the people want it really want it and then if people don’t want it I mean they’re going to pay the price in this
Case for it and we should be very clear on that but we can’t force anyone to do anything good for themselves just say you know what it’s a wild west out whatever like just make sure you don’t die and if you don’t make sure you don’t die you’re probably gonna die yeah
I mean that’s your choice no yeah and 100% man because it’s kind of you can do what you can do and that’s all you can do right and I mean you could bring all this light to the masses and see like I said I think it’s going to grow in
Popularity in the near future because I think a lot of people are starting to recognize that the system that we have right now is not working right yeah and that’s kind of where I’m like I think everybody that you talk to will be in agreement about that whether they want
To discuss money or not is kind of like a different issue it’s like oh I don’t you know but I think everybody now is in agreement that what we’re doing right now is not working you know this reactive system is not working but the one question that I want um to leave you
With well before you leave is uh what do you see in the Evolution for your company and where you’re going in the future like where do you see all this kind of really evolving into this next step I mean we have a very clear road map here um the concept of medical intelligence
Right the concept of generating the right data in medicine getting it into kind of medical intelligence engines that make sense of it and then feeding it back to guiding systems to patients to tell them what to do either to generate more data or to put them on a certain
Plan has such an unlimited enormous upside you could save literally hundreds of thousands of people each year in the us alone and there is no doubt about this this is like trist clear and I won’t contest that actually and I think with Serenity we have the leading system now
We the first ones who actually got this to a point where it starts to really work and when I look at the trajectory of AI and how our AI systems improve and our knowledge of the workflows and the medical integration the goal is very simple like
Can we get this to a point it’s all about cost per report or cost per per feedback right right now we are internal cost whatever we like at 400 bucks or something in average if we can get this down to 300 so the future we see here for medical intelligence is very
Straightforward the central problem of medicine is that this intelligence piece is missing so what you would like to see in the medical system is every interaction with any patient across all medical disciplines including preventative systems but also deep into oncology Cardiology the whole thing there needs to be a medical intelligence
Layer that makes sure there is no wrong decision being made and that makes sure all knowledge is being considered by every physician every point in time all preventative guidelines and preventative measures are being applied to all patients at any point in time once you have a cloud-based AI system that does
That it’s not even hard you just integrate it into the workflow the savings for that will reach into the trillions per year just doing that and avoiding all that stuff that’s happening it’s going to save we estimate a million people per year in the us alone 600,000
In this early age group and then 400,000 probably later so the question is how do you develop the system and I think we are the company that is actually the only company getting close to that or already deploying something because we we don’t have a tools first attitude
We are not like Google or something invent some AI thing and say Here’s your AI but that’s not going to work we come from a Medical Solutions perspective we we are very AI you know focused we we use a lot of AI but it’s Al also about the workflows it’s about the guidelines
It’s about other Cloud systems and hardcoded logics it’s about understanding what new types of people medical Intelligence Officers have to do what medical doctors have to do in this whole new workflow it’s about training your old systems to be error free which hbd is not and large language
Models and so our goal is build Serenity as a product as we do it now but drive down these costs and the central kpis costs per transaction like cost per medical review is that 500 bucks which is roughly now 400 500 bucks can we get this to 50 cents which is
Like not unheard of in Computing stuff like that’s easy Once you cck some codes but it’s going to take some time it’s going to take hundreds of thousands of patients we handle to drive that systematically down can we get it from 500 bucks per report that we generate to
250 to 100 to 50 bucks and can we with not just without compromising medical quality but by increasing medical quality yeah that’s the central kpi of the whole thing and this is by by enormous distance the most important thing in medicine like everything else any drug any any policy change like this all
Pales in comparison to Medical intelligence medical intelligence is the thing that can save us trillions of dollars and millions of lives if done right and we are very determined to get it right and we are already getting it right I think now it’s just a cost issue
Like and that is a very important breakthrough we are already getting it right we have to drive down these costs per per transaction or per per report and we have to make sure this is University applicable which it already is kind of across most disciplines and then we are ready to go
And then the vision is very clear you implement that layer of medical intelligence across the entire medical system and suddenly all avoidable problems are solved which are a lot of problems which is something I look forward to in the future that I want to live in Joe so honestly that was the
Perfect way to end this show and I hope everybody enjoyed it but honestly man I learned a lot and I think we all did too and I look forward to the future now because to your point it’s kind of like you already developed a system now we just need more people to start
Integrating it into their lives so I really hope a lot more people jump on and I Believe in Your Vision man I I really see it being a fantastic thing in the future so that being said Joe I had an awesome time and you know hopefully
We can talk again in the future to see how things are going maybe in a couple quarters down the road when you’re doing spectacular absolutely we are looking forward to it thanks a lot that was a lot of fun hey thank you so much for coming on the show
And to everybody listening or watching I hope you guys enjoy today’s episode