How important are qualifications when building a treasury career?
Jane Pilcher, the Group Treasurer at Anglian Water Group, believes that qualifications are key, but they’re not the only thing needed for a treasury career.
In this episode of the Treasury Career Corner podcast, Jane explains why adaptability and a willingness to learn and grow are essential if you want to build a successful treasury career.
Anglian Water Group’s principal business is Anglian Water, the group’s regulated water and sewerage company, which supplies water and water recycling services to more than six million customers in the east of England and Hartlepool. The group also includes Anglian Venture Holdings.
In her current role, Jane is responsible for all finance and treasury activities of the group. However, her prime responsibilities are to raise group debt, work with bank investor relations, and liaise with the three rating agencies.
In August 2017, Jane led the launch of the company’s inaugural green bond, the first GBP Utility public bond, and the first GBP bond since 2015. She was responsible for procuring the Second Party Opinion, writing the Company’s Green Bond Framework, and leading the extensive investor marketing to deliver a successful bond. Other responsibilities included the asset and liability management of the £1bn+ pension fund.
She is also a Fellow of the Association of Corporate Treasurers and a Non-Executive Director of the Loughborough Building Society.
On the podcast, we discussed…
• How Jane made the move from banking to treasury
• Jane’s experience with Anglican Water Group and why there’s never a dull moment
• How treasury has changed and what the future looks like
• The biggest challenge of hiring
• Why adaptability and willingness to learn are just as vital as qualifications
• Jane’s tips for aspiring treasurers
You can connect with Jane on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jane-pilcher-86149422/?originalSubdomain=uk) .
Are you interested in pursuing a career within Treasury?
Whether you’ve recently graduated, or you want to search for new job opportunities to help develop your treasury career, The Treasury Recruitment Company can help you in your search for the perfect job. Find out more here (https://treasuryrecruitment.com/jobs) . Or, send us your CV (mailto:enquiry@treasuryrecruitment.com) and let us help you in your next career move!
If you’re enjoying the show please rate and review us on whatever podcast app you listen to us on, for Apple Podcasts click here (https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-treasury-career-corner/id1436647162#see-all/reviews) !
Welcome to this week’s treasury career Corner podcast where interview treasury professionals about their treasury careers each and every week I talk to them about how they build their careers where they are now where they see both themselves and the treasur profession going to next let’s get on with the Show welcome to Today’s Show where I feel like I’m in slightly reflective mood that’s probably the best way it’s now summer of 2021 we’re coming out of the pandemic and as we recover many of our past clients are actually reaching out to us and asking us to recruit for them
Once again one of these is the amazing the lovely Jane Pilcher she’s the treasurer anglian water group AWG and we’re currently recruiting two assistant Treasurer roles for her we’ve also got some other roles are coming through at the moment so I thought you know I I
Don’t know I was briefing some of the candidates the other day and say well have I listened to the podcast I did with Jane what I really listened to is a bit of a retrospective if you like I thought wow uh number one how much have I improved over the past 165 plus
Podcasts uh things like having a better microphone uh less breathy sorry about that lots of heavy breathing some of the previous ones don’t know what that was about um but also asking shorter better more insightful questioning questions uh when I can’t ask the questions and
Shutting up that’s a good thing I mean I know it’s a podcast and all that and you want want me to talk but another thing is to be quiet listen to what the Treasure’s got to say interpret it and give it back and take your role if you
Like as a listener so as well as that I then also thought what a great conversation I had it was is still 100% relevant today yes the organizations’s moved on they’ve recently issued a sustainability Bond and you need to look at that and we’ll put some details of
That in the show notes but I thought this is well worth republishing and I wanted to say as well if you want to work for this great organization and an amazing Treasurer then you need to let us know as soon as possible we’re loving recruiting these new roles for Jane and
The team there um but as I say each week that’s Enough From Me we’re going to get back to the episode with Jane from all that time ago sorry about the heavy breathing but anyway as I say each week that’s enough from me let’s get on with the Show so welcome to this week’s treasury career Corner podcast where I interview leading treasury professionals about their treasury careers we talk about how they first started in treasury where they are now and where they see themselves and the treasury profession going next this week’s show I’m delighted to be
Joined by Jane Pilcher the group Treasurer anglian water group anglian water’s principal business is anglian water the regulated water and seage group which supplies water and Recycling services to over 6 million customers across the east of England and up into harleypool the group also includes anglian Venture Holdings that’s the
Investment and management vehicle responsible for the commercial businesses across the UK and Ireland with over 100 million invested today businesses turn turnover is in excess of 500 million and they offer customers a wealth of expertise in the water industry and infrastructure related sectors drawing on all this uh what I
Wanted to do was really get into Jane’s career Jane’s responsible all finance and treasury activities of the group Prime responsibilties obviously around group debt debt Bank investor relations good all around group Treasurer role in career highlights in August 2017 Jane led the launch of the groups in aug all
Green bond which we may go on to and talk about and other responsibilities include Alm management of the 1 billion plus pension fund so pretty busy times but take taking it back a stage Jane you’ve had a number of years within treasury do you if we go back to the dim
Distant past you got your first start you first started in banking before making that move into treasury is that right yes that’s right so I started off uh going into uh into into banking and uh worked in in London uh dealing with with large with large corporates but took the opportunity following a
House move to the Cambridge area to uh to to move into into Commercial Banking and I think I always thought that moving into Commercial Banking um as opposed to corporate banking would be okay as long as I kind of moved uh in at the at the right level um but very very quickly
Realized that I’d made a big mistake working uh working locally for for me uh with kind of much smaller corporates was not what I expected the kind of the culture the environment where I was working was very very different to uh to kind of big Banking and so after a short
Period of time about six weeks and lots of very expensive treats to uh to to compensate myself for making a bad career decision my husband decided that uh that I couldn’t afford to keep buying these treats any longer and I to go back to W two to London so ended up finding a
A job moving back to uh tuto Bank in in London but before doing that had lunch with a finance director of a company locally who was one of my clients when I’d worked at banking in in London and uh and anyway long story short he said
That if ever I wanted to move into Treasury and jump across the uh the the pond then uh then there would always be an opportunity for me to to do that which after quite a lot of kind of soul searching um made you know which was quite a difficult decision to move from
From banking where where I’d been since uh since kind of first starting work to to move across to uh to to treasury so uh so in 1990 I moved across to two to be group treasurer of a small manufacturing company located just outside of Cambridge and they had not
Had a treasury function before so I went in with a clean sheet of paper and uh and looked to uh to kind of grow and develop that so it was first for the treas for for the company but also kind of first for me going into the
Profession as well and what was treasury what did you think treasury was at that stage or what was it for that group I think for me it was a great opportunity I’ve been going out and talking to kind of corporates about their kind of risk management and uh it
Was a great opportunity to then kind of go the other side of the of this the you know of the side of the table to actually kind of do the work myself to to understand where where those risks were so yes I’d been I was starting to
To do my treasures exams uh obviously having done my banking exams I was you know kind of uh you know you know what I thought kind of all briefed up but then kind of moving in suddenly looking at it through a finance director’s eye um it
Did look different so I spent quite a lot of time having to to kind of demonstrate to not only the Auditors but the finance directors he did have some foreign currency exposures that uh that he didn’t think he had and um and so I think it was very much kind of a risk
Management at that time it was talking to to Banks getting the getting the help and support from the banks but for me my biggest area was being able to convert the uh kind of the finance director and the Auditors to looking at things through through a different lens as
Opposed to just an accounting lens and then and you did that for what six years yes and then how how did the move come about to well you know a number of years ago now sort of 20 plus years ago to angam water how did that
Come about sort of you know a printing company to a water group how that come yes well I I was I was kind of head hunted um in terms of uh you know I was approached and uh there was you know this job was kind of coming available at
Anglian and was I was I interested which obviously you know great opportunity to uh to to think about but uh I’d recently kind of gone through a change of Finance director so the finance director that had recruited me had had decided to to move on I had a new Finance director
Coming on board so it really kind of kind of the kind of the the request kind of came through around a similar time right to um to to kind of leave the finance director kind of leaving and uh for me it was any case I think you
Know one of the important things and one of the questions you’re going to ask me later is you know kind of any tips and things for uh for for other people kind of moving into into treasury or managing their career one of the things that was
Really important to to me and kind of helped me with with kind of the position at anglian was that uh one of the the banking contacts I’d got locally uh was the kind of the key key Banker to uh to the angl morar group at the time very
Much had the uh the kind of the confidence of the the then Finance director and so for me you know having had this approach to say would you like to move to angly morar which is probably the largest employer you know by by a very big way in the region the first
Thing I did was got in touch with Jean and said right okay how do I get this one how do I make certain that I get there and uh and anyway the rest is history I managed to to to get the position at anglian and as you say I’ve
Been there for for for a long time and when you joined AG because it’s gone through an evolution as well as your role and everything else but so you started out as an internationally listed business and now many years later is a private business what was it like when
You first started obviously that may have held an appeal you know what was the group like when you walked in day one something think very very different to were to to now and uh I was actually kind of held to to six months notice from my previous
Employer and uh eventually managed to to get them to to agree to to let me go a couple of days a week for the last couple of months of working out my notice and when I first went along for those first couple of days I thought oh
My goodness should I be going back have I made the uh have I made the wrong decision and you know a lot of people nowadays talk about culture and uh but it was something which absolutely kind of hit you uh when uh when you walked
Into into anglian water uh it was an ex privatized it was an ex kind of Public public company yeah it was an organization trying to to change its culture and and boyed kind of culture hitch you and uh in terms of the in terms of the changes that they knew they
Had to were to to be making uh it was very much kind of rule following uh and you know pretty pretty kind of hard for somebody who’d been in kind of big corporate banking to uh to to kind of and and and following corporate banking moving to you know an entrepreneurial
Company to then move or is to kind of going to work for for UK government right so it felt very very kind of different different back then uh the the water company was probably not seen as as the the kind of the important bit it was growing the business internationally
Was was then the uh kind of caught the attention of the of the then kind of senior executive and uh so for you know the first part of my career at anglian it was about expansion overseas it was looking after shareholders uh we we undertook some some share
BuyBacks but it was all about kind of developing that that work overseas and then we had a very challenging price review so I joined in 96 the challenging price review was in uh was in 2000 and uh and suddenly the water company became very big very important
Because it went to the heart of value of the organization yeah why then end ended up working almost like a management buyout in terms of what was going to be the future of the of the water company were we going to do a management buyout
Where we going to to do to do this the business and ended up almost kind of working in a little bunker on the outside of uh of Huntington the rest of the business were told that they couldn’t talk to the very small team of us that were working on this kind of
Alternative project and uh we had no duty of care to our previous employer so we were you know very much kind of set aside as a as a potential kind of buyout team but the end result of that was the board of directors decided they didn’t
Want to to um to kind of lose angryan water from from from the organization and uh and we decided not to go ahead with that but instead we looked to undertake a financial restructuring of the organization so that then moved to my second stage of my
Life at angan Water where I undertook a a large Financial reorganization and became group treasur of then the water company as opposed to the overall group very much focused on managing debt managing investors managing rating agencies and uh and ensuring the company operated uh within the within the financial conditions that that we’ve
Been set and then was that the move from public to private at that stage or was that later uh that was still public we were still a public company at that stage but then in 200 6 uh end of 2006 we were acquired by a Consortium of Pension
Funds and at that point we then went from private a public to to private so then that was the third stage of my career at anglian in terms of managing the the kind of the water company we pretty much by that stage had disposed of um the the non-water company assets
We still had a small amount which were continuing to be disposed of but what the uh Pension funds were purchasing was essentially kind of a water company which which was being financed by by debt and that was what they wanted they wanted to to be investing in infrastructure and to have an inflation
Linked asset when I when I in the third part of my career and when I spoke to Dana lold she she uh was with a group that went from and with car Investment Group and they went from uh private ownership to public and she particularly talked about how she enjoyed the rigor
That that put around it and everything else for you that’s obviously transition the other way so from public and you know the reporting requirements and everything else but back to private what was that move like for you as a Treasurer the water industry uh in the UK has got a license obligation to
Operate as though it was a public company yeah and so to a certain extent from from my perspective in terms of kind of managing debt there hasn’t been a lot of difference in moving from public ownership to to private ownership other than that the the shareholders sit
Around the table of the of the top Board of the of the organization and so the the role as a finance director and chief executive they can ask the shareholders there face to face what their views are as opposed to to kind of engaging with um you know very very kind of many
Shareholders so from a debt perspective for me it hasn’t made a huge amount of of difference because I still have to do the same reporting I still have to well I choose to to still engage with our debt investors in the same way as I did when we were publicly owned the
Difference is the shareholders sit around the table at that very top company board that that we have and you’ve got different you know being a water company you’ve got different kinds of regulation in terms of you know the actual industry itself you got offw and people like that and then terms of
Treasury you’ve got you know various regulation coming you from lots of different sources as it were how do you deal with that and sort of keep that manageable well I think from you know a Water Company’s perspective we have to to manage rules and regulations and and compliance that’s just something we have
To to do yeah and uh and so we’re good at it we’re very good at kind of managing disasters we’re very good at managing there’s kind of oneoff unexpected events as well as kind of making certain we kind of do all of that compliance so in terms of the world of
Kind of financial compliance uh to us it kind of just feels like a natural extension of what the business is doing day to-day the financial obligations that we’ve got in our debt structure you know are are numerous um but uh from my perspective it enables treasury to to keep at the
Heart of the organization to understand what’s what’s kind of going on and the business is is very well used to uh to to kind of reporting because that’s what we have to to do with all the different Regulators who who uh who who give us our license and monitor our performance
And in terms of you know you’ve been there since 96 and you walked into a treasury team I think you know three or four people um through to now how was how has treasury evolved over that time if you look you know throughout that time you know tagging on the the sort of
Moves from anglian as it evolved as well as a group how how’s treasury changed to cope with that as well oh I think it’s changed immensely uh I think from a professional perspective in terms of either team uh the I’m not saying kind of the kind
Of the the team when when I joined it um you know weren’t weren’t qualified but they weren’t kind of qualified from from a treasury perspective yeah and and so one of the kind of the biggest challenges for for me when when I kind of walked in was to get people to try to
See the bigger picture understand what they were doing how all of the components that they did kind of fitted in with with each other all of the kind of things that people learn when they do their we’re doing their treasury exams and one person who um who who who was
Working for me kind of soon after I joined was starting to do his treasury exams and at the end of the first year of doing his exams I can now understand why you were so shocked when you walked into into this organization because now having spent a year doing my you know
Kind of early part of my treasury exams I Now understand what you know the treasury industry and the treasury profession is is about yeah so I think that professionalism in terms of people understanding kind of Treasury as as a profession people undertaking their their exams understanding kind of the
Kind of the segregation of roles you know front middle back office that’s changed immensely I think the use of systems when I first joined there was somebody who used to sit in front of a terminal write down the the bank balances from from kind of the the um
Reported online from from from the bank and then somebody was sitting kind of Rey all of that information into into an Excel spreadsheet and then Rey information into a treasury management system so the use of systems and it that has also kind of changed hugely over over that period
And accounting I think when I first joined treasury accounting of debt and in of debt and interest was done semiannually for statutary accounting um we now do kind of management reporting on a monthly basis and so everybody kind of understands all of our kind of our interest and our derivative exposures
Whereas that was only done every six months when I first joined and and now the shape of the team you obviously we we’ve helped with some of that you you’ve gone you’ve grown now to what 13 members of staff is that right I think it’s actually 15 at the moment we’ve got
We’ve got a couple of apprenticeships and uh and I think it very much kind of reflects the the way the organization has grown when I first joined anglian the expectation was that the the water industry had had a huge period of capital expenditure to enable the the UK
To to comply with the uh the regulations in entering into into Europe so we had a huge amount of capital expenditure to Quire with to comply with European regulations and the expectation was that once that was done the uh the kind of the business would would kind of
Gradually depreciate in terms of then just kind of providing kind of an operational service to to to customers whereas the reality is the size of the business has grown significantly because of continued uh growth in people and population in our region but also the ever demanding standards for for kind of
Water in the envir enironment which have been adopted in in Europe and so as we’ve needed to to spend capital expenditure uh are the size of our business has continued to to to grow and the change as I said when we moveed to the financial restructuring that uh that
I undertook in 2002 we saw the proportion of the business that was financed by debt increase significantly so so the role and importance of Treasury uh took on a an increase in staff at that point of time to uh to to reflect the the importance of debt to to
The organization and then financing wise and funding you you’ve sort of gone through that cycle back again because you did US private placement as well and you got your cash balances changing as well looking at it so it seems it’s sort of changing once again I think that’s right I think that
With the size of our debt portfolio we need to to make certain that we’ve got access to a range of different markets a range of different maturities and uh so that we don’t go and have one market become full on us and then how do
We raise the even next slice of debt so having access to to a range of different markets is is really important so in the past we’ve accessed the Euro Market I haven’t got any Euro debt outstanding at the moment but in the past we have we’ve got Sterling Capital markets debt us
Private placements I’ve got some Yen placements I’ve got Bank debt but I think the key is been to to access debt from from a variety of different markets and what what what are the I know it’s quite a different Market in the US but you know when you went out there I know
You’ve been out there and explain the anglian water story to those guys what what was their opinion of you guys why did they why were they interested uh Ang had been financing in the US private placement market for I think we were one of the first UK
Companies too to kind of go into into that market so when I joined the company they actually had some some us private placement debt outstanding but when we the financial restructuring in 2002 all but two of those note holders chose to were to to exit so I’d always considered that that
Uh the US private placement Market would not therefore be Keen in going back into what we kind of called at the time the kind of the securitized water industry right yeah so when I was persuaded by one of my Banks to were to to go back
Into that market I went into it very cautiously I didn’t quite believe that uh that the investors would would want to to do that but spent a lot of time kind of training teaching educating investors in terms of how they’re protected from a legal perspective and
Uh and so we’ve then had a number of very successful debt transactions within the US market but very much kind of took took our time to to educate and show investors uh the the protections they had so it was worth their while to or to to kind of understand the protections
They were getting which would actually kind of prob much much greater than they had previously and then on that basis we were able to uh to to do our first transaction and also then to to do a number of subsequent transactions and all the treasuries managed from your UK
Based treasury team is that right yes that’s right yes we’ve got very very little business you mentioned anglian Venture Holdings we’ve got a uh some business in in Ireland but the vast majority of of what the group does is uh is is based within the UK and uh and
Sterling and within the team you know focusing on that team you know we we’ve recruited successfully for the group before but in your words what are you looking for when you’re bringing those those guys to to join guys and girls you know to join the team um with yourself
What what is it about you’re looking for people is it I know when I spoke to Sarah Jane Hall at black Smith Klein she’s you know very much like yourself she’s very Pro qualifications in Treasury and very Pro the act and various other business but is is it firstly you know qualifications you’re
Looking for and then the rest or is it attitude or what what is it when you know a CV or resume lands on your desk I think that recruiting in Huntington and recruiting in treasury is you know they’re they’re kind of two quite you know they are two big two big
Challenges and one of the things that we are trying to kind of focus on at the moment is is kind of homeg growing Talent so those of bringing people in at a junior level as I said we’ve now got two apprentices in the scheme in in in
In the team and uh and looking to to bring in then you people who have got good degrees who are looking to do something different so we’re looking for high levels of kind of University graduates but with a an aptitude and a and a passion to to do something
Differently so that’s I think what we’re looking for at kind of the most Junior levels in terms of the more senior levels I think it’s looking for for for people who want to to grow want to to develop and want to to do something that’s different from from the
Mainstream and and that’s often I think the the challenge with bringing people into into treasury who’ve not worked in treasury before you know I often say to to people if you want to kind of come in every day know what you’re going to do exactly the same every single day and
Then go home at a set time well then treasury is not the same not the place for for you yeah but if you want to to come into to somewhere where you might think you’re going to do something today but then suddenly Energy prices fall and
We want to uh to to kind of purchase some forward energy you’ve got to be adaptable and excited by wow great that’s an opportunity I’m then going to uh to to take it and that’s stuff that I was going to do today I’ll manage expectations and I’ll try and do that
Tomorrow and uh so it’s people who it’s aptitude I think for for people so people who are wanting to to grow wanting to learn they’ve got um a base level of of Education which obviously is at a high level but that they it’s that it’s that adaptability and an enthusiasm
That I’m looking for and you I know that you’ve become involved in the act the association Treasures in the UK in the past an fct as well so fellow of the association why do you think that’s such a a key thing I think you know I pretty
Much know the answer but this is more for the listeners and why you think it’s a good good thing to have on on your CV I think it gives um That Base training in terms of the the role of of Treasury and I you know Drew Drew
Comment earlier on in terms of uh the kind of the person in the team who started to understand why I was quite dismayed when I first joined anglian until he started doing his his treasurers exams I think what it does it gives you a level of knowledge a level
Of training to to understand the uh the kind of the risks uh for for an organization and the stewardship that we’re providing in in treasury so for me that that’s why kind of that training is is so important uh I think the courses the uh conferences that the treasurers Association treasur
Corporate Treasures organize are a great way for people to understand what other people are doing um whether it’s on on systems whether it’s on cash flow Management on debt management it brings together kind of like-minded people who uh can then kind of learn and grow from from each
Other and as it as as the treasury career grows as it were and you we just talked there a little bit you mentioned about how it’s changing the time you’ve been doing it systems it and reeing stuff but looking to the Future you’ve seen treasury change drastically over the time where do you
See it going next well there’s a lot of talk at the moment in terms of um of of automation uh in terms of um you what what what can be kind of done you know AI in terms of um what can be done in terms of having two to have people so I
I do see it’s going to be smaller potentially kind of smaller treasury teams of the future greater use of systems but in terms of the caliber of people who are working in treasury or in kind of wider Finance organizations it’s going to to be kind of smarter um more professional people
Um so that you still need to um to to be able to to kind of have the the kind of the the thinking the Strategic thinking behind an organization uh making certain that you’re able to to interpret um what the systems are doing to know that it’s
Right rather than just having a black box say here’s my kind of uh my debt number here’s my interest number and nobody questioning and challenging it so I think it’s to be much more a case of review strategy uh and challenge as opposed to kind of production and uh and kind of
Root routine so I think the role of an individual in treasury is going to to be changing which is why you know we we’re seeing this kind of change in in our own treasury team with having some of the um the more routine roles undertaken by
People at that start of their their very early start of their career but they’re people who we would be expecting over a threee per period to were to be moving kind of quite quickly through through the organization and with that you know you say about it’s developing how how do you
See your role continuing to develop from here uh I mean I’ve always said I’ll leave an organization when I get bored and uh and I’ve clearly not got bored because I’ve been here for for a very long time never a dull moment in the
Water industry as we as we’d say it so I think that the I think part of what’s exciting about treasury is you don’t know quite what’s around the corner it’s being able to to to lead to the changes so you know we’ve got all the way through this interview without kind of mentioning
Kind of the the brexit word but I think from a Treasurer that’s a you know many ways it brings more volatility more uncertainty but kind of Greater excitement as well so uh you know what are the challenges that we’re trying to to help and protect our organizations
From so I think it’s that changing World sustainability is a huge great Focus for for us at angling water uh we issued our first green Bond last year we’re going to try and raise all the finance that that we can as uh as as green Finance so
Working with uh other stakeholders to to try to um help investors see the importance of of climate change to to kind of work with uh you know politicians and other stakeholders as we we look to to get you know more green Finance these are all things that I
Wouldn’t have envisaged 18 months ago that that I’d be focusing on yeah my team are doing now it’s all fresh we I would never have expected that you know Leslie my assistant was out visiting kind of Corby treatment works a couple of days ago because uh she’s picked one
Of the green bomb projects that we’re financing to to come and talk to to the team about and so that’s helping her grow and develop but also helping the team to to understand what the money that we’re raising is being used to to finance I never would have expected that
That’s what we’d be doing 18 months ago no so it’s constantly changing and developing and and with you with yourself um you’ve had a very successful treasury career thus far you know with with still continuing the development someone listens in and you know to wrap up today’s interview where you know
Someone’s saying hang on I I want to steal Jane’s job in the future I want or I want to copy that what would you say what advice would you give what bits nuggets would you give out to those guys to say do this do this and and follow me
Sort of thing I I did it on a speech this week at the treasury leader Summit saying look at people’s LinkedIn profiles and say look this is the steps that Jane made this is what she did you know you you’ve done a number of different things but this is the steps
That she took and then she’s the group treasure successful group treasur FR angle water what would you draw out you know perhaps two or three of those that you know think actually this is what I need to do tomorrow yeah I think it’s uh I think for me it’s
Yes it’s about kind of working hard getting on with with people um making certain youve got good people kind of working for you as as well but it’s having that having an open mind uh being willing to to kind of challenge the the status quo I think one of the first
Finance directors I worked for said you know keep opening all of those doors when you hit the brick wall at the end don’t try and knock it down yourself come back to uh to to me and I’ll help you um un that that kind of brick wall
At the end so I think it’s trying you know don’t be scared to to kind of challenge things to to do things differently and uh but make sure you express those views to the right people and not to the wrong people so do it in collaboration and
Then you know in treasury terms you’ve obviously you know studied all the exams and you’ve gone the way through that and I know that you do other non-exec work is that sort developing because you were Cambridge Building Society then did lra as well those things that you think
People need to look at doing from external to just doing your day you know very busy day job I think that’s right and um I’ve certainly had kind of I’ve got one person in my team at the moment who uh I’ve encouraged to to kind of join uh
An industry because they were looking for somebody to to kind of join a a collaboration unit so uh so so he’s he’s he’s joined that I had somebody else in the team one of our non-exact directors was looking for for somebody to to join uh as a non-exact director on one of the
Smaller companies he was involved with in Cambridge and so so he did that so I think it’s a great way of being able to to kind of grow your grow your kind of your kind of skills and behaviors so not not so much the technical side the kind of the
Softer side but I think it’s a it’s a great way for for for people to you know sometimes with with with with kind of Treasury and finance you’re you can be very introverted you can sit and focus on on your day job making certain that you get everything done and you forget
To kind of look up and and smell the roses I think working and and doing whether it’s a non-exact director job whether it’s joining a committee with the association of corporate treasurers or working on pensions or whatever um taking people away from their day job to
Enable them to to kind of make them realize how much value they’re adding but to to kind of talk to to other people is a really good skill for people too to get fantastic I I want to leave it there because I think that was a great up to today’s interview um thanks
Very much Jane if people want to connect with you best way is looking you up through Linkedin and maybe reaching out that way is that the best way yes that’s fine y great we’ll put Jane’s um details in the show notes but all remains to me
Is thank you very much Jane and and looking forward to the uh bright future with yourselves and angry water continuing great thanks Mike thanks for much hello it’s Mike here again I hope you enjoyed this week’s show if you did then maybe you want to follow the show
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