Welcome with
Julia Vismann (moderator and editor, radio eins, Inforadio, Deutschlandfunk)
Mark Lawrence (RIFS)
Klaus Töpfer (founding Director of the Institute for Advanced Sustainability Studies, now RIFS)
Nino Jordan (UCL ISR / RIFS)
Welcome at the rift the research institute for sustainability Helm hols Center poam welcome to the excellent scientists and carbon footprint policy experts from all over the world here in this room of L Villa and welcome everybody online at your screens we have a special guest today we
Are really honored to have Dr K Claus Tupper here former Federal Minister for their environment nature conservation and nuclear safety and this is most important for this conference today founding director and former executive direct director of The Institute for advanced sustainability studies I IIA SS former name of the rift so please
Welcome Dr Claus Tupper we will listen to him and his opening speech in a minute a big Applause for him thank you for being here I would like to introduce myself my name is Julia visman I’m a journalist and I’m a science podcast host of two podcasts dealing with sustainability
Climate change biodiversity circular economy um alog together the stgs and I’m honored and excited to be part of this great exper um experience um the first carbon footprint policy accelerator conference two days of knowledge exchange about carbon footprint policies as by clean and whole life carbon regulatory standards for
Buildings I would like to mention Nino yordan he’s he just s up um the Claus tapa sustainability fellow of the Rifts because he organized this conference you all know him a warm Applause for associate professor at University College London Institute for sustain sustainable resources but um the official opening
For this great conference um we’ll have uh Professor Dr Mark Lawrence scientific director of the riffs Helm Hol Center potam please welcome Dr Professor Dr Mark Lawrence there is the microphone um I turn it on for you so good morning everybody thank you Julia it’s a great pleasure for me to welcome
You to riffs and uh it’s a wonderful pleasure especially to welcome you at this Workshop I get to open many of our workshops that we have here and it’s always a pleasure to see what kinds of activities we have and what kinds of people we bring here together um but
This Workshop of course brings together many of the threads of our past and it’s it’s it’s quite a pleasure in that sense as Julie already mentioned we have as a as a special guest it’s it’s my great pleasure that Claus turer has uh joined us for the opening of this Workshop
Claus turer as mentioned was the founding director of the iass The Institute for advanced sustainability studies which has now become riffs uh back over 13 years ago and uh brought many many valuable impulses into that after klous left us in 2015 we initiated the CLA tur for sustainability
Fellowship and uh it took a while given the pandemic and other things going for that to really get rolling but now we have our fourth CL TP for sustainability fellow Nino Jordan here and uh has organized this Workshop one of the threads that we’ve brought together but
Also on the topic of this Workshop which about the the the the the the carbon po footprint and the some the finance sector but especially about the building sector and so everybody knows of Claus turer’s history as environmental Minister many know of his history as environmental minister of
Ryland faults with the famous swim in the Ry I actually still live in mines and commute to here so this is something that’s still prominent after all those years uh sticks in people’s memories um and of course his time as Federal minister of environment and his time as
The executive director of unep but also CLA spent some time as the building Minister and uh can bring that thread together here but of course to me one of the most important threads is the fact that we bring together for the work that we do not only academics but people
Across all sectors of the society that are relevant the policy sector the industry sector Civil Society sector everyone that is relevant and needed for us to be able to approach problems in our either in our special transdisciplinary research manner that we typically take on or other co-creative approaches to solving policy
Problems that we have and so with that um I welcome you all I wish you great discussions unfortunately I won’t be able to stay very long for this Workshop I have to disappear off to a uh general assembly of our former Institute the IAS which still exists and is in the formal
Legal transition and then this evening we’ll be together with ster for an event together with him in Berlin so he’ll also be able to stay for a bit this morning um but it’s it’s a great opportunity for us to be here together and we wish you a very very successful
Workshop and discussions together and with that it’s my pleasure to welcome CL turer and hand it over to him to say a few words of welcome and give you a few thoughts imparting thoughts for this Workshop CL yeah good morning friends colleagues great to be back in this
Building you may imagine there are lots of lots of happening in the wintime and I remember when we started here was not very easy to convince the German bureaucracy that we need something like a new kind of an Institute kind of an Institute linked science to
Policy and I think it is still very very open activity and uh I’m very sure that this will be more intensive than we ever considered it could be on my business life and I’m an old man as you can easily see I’m now 85 years old so when you remember that your
Parents are most probably 20 years younger that you know that I’m your grandfather and when I started I started to study uh economics the University in Minster and one of the speciality of this University there was the regional planning start H isard and others for those who
Are a little bit informed about this it was a question very very important question how to influence private plans my dissertation at this title how to uh inform and to change private PLS demonstrated as a locational decision between urban and rural areas in the meantime this booklet is gone not the third uh
Uh new uh presentation anyhow it was quite a good idea idea because how can we do this that we are going not all to the cities and the empty all areas as modern as it is quite now see we have differentiated between uh localization economies and uh urbanization
Economies we try to influence and to make it clear what is to do that private business is reacting to those offers was very good and by the way one of the advantages we always considered was uh it was better for lower emission regulations and then came the time when willly bond in his
Campaign mentioned he want to see the blue sky on the r because there in the district was very very dirty very low life expectations and what to do that’s not surprising was the center of the German Montana industry with coal and steel it was the power region in
Europe linked with or compared with Manchester and those in England these were the two industrialization starters but there was no emission whatever and from time to time it was nearly impossible to live there and then really bur the blue sky over that was the vision each everybody was more or less
Laughing about that how can you do that you can go out of this and you may imagine industry in those days Private Industry was very very very influential very influential the tiens and the corops and the others all was this until now very well known in the
Years of Germans if you ask for the economic perspectives and you have to convince them that they had to invest money to clean the air and they were backed of course by the trade unions because what you are investing there you can give as a wages
Increase so it was a fight not only against industry quite the qu by the way as we have it quite now as well you see that when you listen now to the media there’s a huge discussion concerning the bridge prices for energy backed by the big industry and by the big Trade union
It’s exactly the same again of course there is a long a topic for a long long lesson to learn so it was not as easy as you could see but you everybody see it people are dying and so we had to do something in
Those days I was a young man I was not yet in any position where I could decide and I could make really progress but at the University we could do it we did it and one of the first answer what do you believe was how can you make the air
Cleaner that was a high chimney policy you didn’t change the emissions but you changed the chimney was first example for what we call Begg My Neighbor policy and that you can see everywhere everywhere you canot see it as it mentioned in the whole district with the emissions of The Big Industry of cold
And steel I don’t want to go to any detail but of course so SO2 was one of the main topic in the days already and others as well whole line everything net was clean so that was the high Chim the next was bigger my neighbor question to
You bring the pollutant industry on the border of your country so 50% goes to the other one and please do it in a way that the wind is going to the other you can see this wonderful only one example is the nuclear the nuclear power plant in France directly on the German France
Border is katano it’s a French nuclear power PL so if he decide to face out nuclear there not to face out of the risk of nuclear because our neighbors is know much later I was always back from my office in Nairobi where United Nation environment program is
Headquartered in those days it was of course a very very urgent topic how to how to handle this until today it is not handled it is not handled but we came to the conclusion if you want to go out of nuclear and we want to go out that I was
Ahead of the soal etic commissions by the government together with what kleer the head of the liess foundation in those days and we want to go out and we made a Time plan by the way the time plan was 2021 exactly in line with what we experienced but it is wonderful in the
Same EIC commission’s report is mentioned if you go out of nuclear power you must stick to nuclear science because I remember very well where we had this disaster of the nuclear power plant in Russia Germans was asked to come to help I was twice three times there we had the
Topic in the nuclear science even if you go out you cannot go out of science if you do this you are a blind man and you can do nothing if everything in Kat that Kat the new Power Station decided quite now in different cities in different states in
In Europe I was looking for the water and luckily this morning so I have to ask for water because anyhow we neglected this and I’m fairly sure that this is one of the big mistake we are doing we have to invest even more in science to be at least in the able in
The ability to influence in those cases where we have a disasters and we have lots of those nuclear power they got my neighbor I remember I was a minister in the meantime and I was in those dayses as always in the European Union changing the head of the European environment
Ministers and it was concentrated to water and I was asked to go to Portugal had a wonderful colleague in Portugal wonderful wine by the way and we discussed and say want to see his sewage water treatment plant he couldn’t understand what I mean they brought their seage to the shore had a physical
Removal but not a cleaning and say we have a long tube in the sea and if you go into see here at the Beach not a single possibility in chemical pollution outside distribution by the way again you have exactly the same structure where quite now in Japan where they bring the
Nuclear contemplated water with very long Pipeline with tankers out for 40 years make it it their district and in time everywhere else so our politic was always more or less be my neighbor and I remember of course when I was then able to influence the con conference in Rio 9092
The United Nation conference on the environment and development by the way also quite an interesting little experience we had the first Conference of the sky90 72 in Stockholm and it was a huge huge trouble what’s the name of this nobody want to have it United Nation conference on environment
Because the developing countries came back and say that dtic you destroyed the environment and we shall come to help you to cleane the environment so at the conference in Stockholm we had only three intensive and not Capital intens exactly the other way around in the developed countries they must be capit intensive
Because we don’t have Labor they have to be not repairable because we are convinced he can do all this perfectly and no problem will right and you can go through it so we have the wrong Technologies for the early countries that was the way that we started and I’m happy to say this
Together with my colleag of the Social Democrat part I’m much chair to study the way how can we make renewable energy cheaper you see that was ahead of a job when we started with solar energy we have to pay for 1 kilow hour of solar energy something about to
Daymark one EUR absolutely too expensive where we mentioned that we are looking for those energies we got at the best smiling on the face of the others nobody took it serious and we were convinced if we can go in a economies of scale that we invest in more and that we are
Investing in research we can have a learning curve like this and we got it now a kilowatt hour of solar energy doesn’t cost one Euro it costs one EUR Cent In the good places in the world then you have an answer to this and what are we doing we going now to
Those countries mentioned for example NAIA or German Colony I was there also quite often lots of sun lots of wind we try to harvest them and to change it to hydrogen and to export it to the Western countries is there a new way where we are not thinking first
Bring the energy to those countries we are discussing in Germany upside down today guess yesterday what’s going on with the immigrants you must go on the roots of this you must develop those countries why don’t we have something like a a um seminar for uh young people as we have it with
Also lots of other developed countries but English feel why are we not educating the people in their countries with the industry which want to invest there this is a solution in the on the HS you can do it then it’s not bring him and they go don’t go back if we now hire
The educated people from those countries that is their Capital their last Capital they have and we inv we invited them to be here so that we have the possibility to discuss a four day week and working less that is the problem make the other not the slaves of your
Welfare we always started with a wonderful saying we don’t want to externalize costs that our prices are highly subsidizing by time and distance all this is put it out no put it in bring it to yourself and make science possibility and this can also overcome to some extent the problems with
Industry because industry are looking for people working for them they need and therefore if they could do that as we did it in the very beginning of our uh vational training in our country as well link it with the companies and then go back and make it not linked to a
Company because then they are not able to be free decision in their perspective for their life so what you are doing here is not theoretical so I hope at least it must be the link between science politics and you must be aware that’s my experience if you want to do everything
At the same time you’re doing nothing you make you must bring the people with you and not giving them arguments to reject what you are considered to do I think there’s a lot of huge problem in this country in Germany so we come from aboard you can have not the
Best that’s not to praise myself but of course we were at the top of the list circular economy was started here I was the founder of the Green Dot and the yellow second so that’s always mentioned that he is the queen Dot that’s better than
He is a yellow sack you may imagine I could fight at least the second title you can’t fight the first title the first first title that are cross the by swimming that is uh see you people forget a lot but this is when I go and I’m coming to the end
Somebody will be at my grave with a bottle of water and say that’s Ryan water he saved it without any doubt and that is the by effect of politics if you are once a politicians you will be it for all the time nobody comes back and say that is Mr
General but when I was mentioned it’s always CL like it’s C you it seems to be stupid to mention but it is not because you have to fight against something which is not directly linked with what you believe it’s difficult really difficult not that I’m unhappy with my political
Decision but I a free man in the decision and if you are always with this sticker then you are always in an uphill battle and therefore if you want to go to politics be careful and make it very very clear that you are still your thinker and not the slave of
Others quite a quite a challenge so you see you can speak a long long time if you are an old old man and if you have like this because otherwise you have problem with your body and that is not helpful I’m thankful to you all of course to Mark
And that you came to a good idea to invite me it’s a busy day today but it is a very good start for a busy day and therefore I’m happy that I could be here and I hope that you can overcome the change from I as s what is that
Rifts in the future Rifts in the future there are also wonderful wonderful gold fingers in the Rifts activity and I wish you all the best for your life and please be always aware don’t this fact from the question my wisdom how can I handle it in a border open
Society how can we overcome this cancel culture what we see now in this terrible geopolitical disaster in is and in Ukraine bestest Bank Gaza what we see in Russia and Ukraine it is always so necessary that we can live better conations in the very beginning to do it later we see is very
Very difficult and gives you always the start for the next disaster and those young people they want to have a good future and they should friend you have to work for thank you very much thank you very much Dr apologize for my poor German English but I don’t speak English
Any but it changed for the better but we understood you perfectly that’s a good thing about a heavy German accent um English like me so thank you very much for your input on geopolitical political thoughts and what I took from your speech is and that it’s good when you um studied political
Science is me to have a also a economical background because otherwise you don’t understand how it all works that’s um the thing protection of the environment probably doesn’t work without um understanding the economic system and uh I really liked your picture from from the past um uh that we have to cut
Emissions without making the industry building the chimneys higher I think that’s in in a shortcut what we want to do here at this conference so please Nino yordan um come here with uh me and um yeah have a big Applause for again for for organizing this conference please so Al together what’s your
Approach with this uh two days conference and workshops what’s the mainly the structure yeah I mean just a couple of words about the focus of the conference um so thanks everyone for for coming here for joining us today here in the villa and online and I promise I
Promise I won’t try to convince you about a couple of things I won’t try to convince you that this is about a paradigm shift I’m also not going to try and convince you that this is about a Quantum Leap well at least not in those words but I do believe that the
Developments we’re looking at today are potentially a turning point in the history of climate policy so what are those bold claims about and the clue is already in the title of the conference carbon foot print policy accelerator so what are carbon footprint policies I mean it’s it’s great that you
All came to this conference uh even if you might be clueless about what carbon footprint policies could be about carbon footprint policies what’s so special about them carbon footprint policies Target at least some of the Upstream emissions of products the emissions that accumulate throughout Supply chains that
Are often global and that is a that is a true game Cher because traditionally climate policy has been focused particularly in the Industrial Area Industrial climate policy has been focused on chimneys has been focused on regulating the emissions where they occur and then well we have lots of social movements journalists NOS
Politicians they all every every year there’s a new cop and they all in unison declare that one thing is missing political will but it’s very difficult for politicians to must much political will if they then talk to Industry and Industry tells them oh if you impose very strict regulation if you impose
High carbon prices that’s just going to be good for our competitors abroad that are less regulated so you may you may regulate us but actually it doesn’t lead to very much it’s just bad for for the industry that is highly regulated and the other less regulated industry is
Going to flourish so that’s a very hard cell for politicians but here carbon footprint policies they come in and they regulate or Price emissions wherever they Acure in the world so that’s that’s a big change because a a huge part of that competitiveness argument suddenly loses its force and so you have carbon
Foot you have a very prominent carbon footprint policy at the level of the European Union the carbon border adjustment mechanism so they they try to introduce carbon footprint policies by means of pricing but those developments are potentially quite slow highly uncertain and the European Union is
Never going to be as ambitious as its most ambitious member states conversely some member states who may lose climate policy ambition May considerably drag down the European Union’s climate efforts in the future so that’s why in this conference we focus on more Nimble policies that can be adopted at the
Level of cities at the level of US states like California at the level of us uh of EU member states such as such as Denmark and the Netherlands and in the first day today we focus on the power of purchasing the power of procurement be it from public or private
Sectors and tomorrow we going to focus on embodied a whole life cycle carbon rate regulation and the build environment so it’s all this just about construction the build environment about steel concrete cement Timber and so on partially that would be good enough because that’s a huge chunk of emissions
But I do believe that the experiences from the build environment where carbon footprint policies are the most advanced will also help to inform other sectors such as Mobility so that brings me to the last uh to the last bit of the title the accelerator what do we want to
Accelerate so first learning about carbon footprint policies we’ve we’ve brought we’ve brought together uh people associated with the Vanguard of carbon footprint policies today into this room to exchange their ideas to uh to learn new things and then we also need to accelerate the development of carbon footprint policies and here it’s not
Just about acceleration but about accelerating in a smart way because as Mr Tupper just said if you just if you do if you don’t do things in the right order then you might just generate a backlash so it’s really important to look at how can we actually sequence those policies in the right
Way so I’m I’m delighted to have this uh such excellent speakers facilitators and participants today and um I’m sure we cannot we cannot but accelerate learning uh policy development here and also the uh the transition to Net Zero thank you very much