Full Council Meeting

Full Council Meeting

Welcome to the last oftwn Council full council meeting the last one of the year uh today in Hamilton house battery Green in LOF and if you’re watching at home um I hope you have a Merry Christmas uh with with me inside the council chamber today are councelor Youngman councelor Webb councelor rensburg

Counselor and de peerce counselor patients councelor Parker councelor Paige councelor Nome counselor Brooks counselor Bob breakspear councellor beum and myself counselor Sonia bker who’s chair of the meeting and from the staff side we have Sarah foot who’s the deputy Town Clerk and Lauren Elliot who’s the project officer and minute taker for

This meeting so welcome everybody fire evacuation procedure for Hamilton house welcome everyone the fire alarms are tested every Monday morning there are no fire alarms tests planned for this evening and so should the fire alarm sign it will be for real in the event of a fire please follow the

Instructions that will be given and congregate on the grass Verge to the side of the quickfit building the fire exits are the main stairwell to the reception area and a separate flight of stairs in the nest Point breakout area reporting at meetings in the interest of openness and transparency councilors and members of

The public are reminded that the law permits any person to film record photograph or use social media in order to report on the procceedings of a meeting of the council or its committees when they are open to the public the Town Council will record this meeting filming and photography will only be

Permitted from the area designated no flash photography or additional lighting should be used without prior consent anyone wishing to report on the meeting should notify the clerk or chair so that they can be afforded reasonable facilities people under the age of 18 or other members of the public not wishing

To be filmed or photographed should notify the clerk or chair and should sit in the area designated for this purpose in proper conduct or any disruptive behavior could result in expulsion from the meeting can you also ensure that your mobile phones are changed to silent or Switched Off and adhere to the

Non-smoking policy for this building and the grounds of Hamilton house 161 to receive and consider approval of apologies for absence from any counselors not in attendance so have we got any please uh apologies some counselors Neil Colby Janet Craig Jen Jones John pittz Deborah Ray Jack Smith and David jungman with reasons provided

Uh councelor a is in attendance on the webinar okay under this item uh councel take separately please sorry I’m gonna requests that we can I request that we take them separately because there’s one counselor who uh attendance I don’t want uh apologies I don’t want to accept Okay well if you are you

Proposing that councelor Brooks yes I mean in fact I’m quite happy to propose that we take councelor David jungman separately from all the others who I prepared to approve right is there a second for that coun web councelor web okay thank you right and a vote

Please it looks some um confusion so the proposal is to accept all the apologies apart from councelor David youngman’s I believe yeah yeah and the vote please Way vote individually yes or no yeah W very clear okay right that was wasn’t as I well my proposal is we we accept them all yeah

Except except can young ones so that was a proposal seced by Council Webb yes and a vote please just quickly if I can so yeah so I’m understand now yeah yeah you’re all right with that are you right so can we have a clear show of hands of those counselors in favor

Accepting all the apologies apart from councelor David youngman’s please so one two three four in favor thank you against one two three 4 six six got 12 and extensions exensions one one you got that to does that add up that’s 11 11 so there must be one right someone hasn’t voted or it

Wasn’t clear with their hand so can we go again then please four four against one two three four five six seven seven seven thank you and one abens yeah right okay thank you um following on from apologies I just I think we now need to All Apologies yeah

Sorry about that I think we’ve done that oh sorry I think so sorry chair that proposal wasn’t carried so we need a counter proposal all right we need a counter proposal sorry I was eager to get on to the next but I was going to say councelor

P okay is that seconded by councelor B again okay and a vote please nine against an exstension me okay sorry about that right are we clear now we’re right um most of you will have heard that um or read from the information put out yesterday by um Sarah Sarah foot

That councelor Alan Green has resigned as of yesterday afternoon with immediate effect so um I will be responding as I put in my note round to everybody uh a formal um letter to him uh but I thought I’d just mention in the apologies a little bit about councilor green so it’s just a

Short statement councelor Alan Green resigned from the last oftwn Council yesterday afternoon Monday the 18th of December 2023 Allan had been a last of toown counselor from its formation in 2017 he served on a large and wide ranging uh of rof Town Council committees specializing in finance and governance and in budget and

Loan three years during the covid pandemic and afterwards he was mayor and chair of LOF Town Council at a very difficult time and he paved the way for many of the current successful developments in the town such as the town hall project his wise and dignified Council

Will be much missed by LOF Town counselors and staff Okay so just a short comment on Alan thank you right item 162 declarations dispensations 162.svg istable interests from councilors on items on the agenda have we got any please councelor patience can all counselors please use their microphones if not it won’t come

Out on the recording thank you I’m a member of e Council in conjunction with 1715 176 and 1717 thank you Council patient Council Parker yeah right same as Keith the same numbers he’s suffer counselor okay thank you um from my point of view I have registerable interests on first

SL as I’m the L of time councelor rep and have volunteered so I will be listening to the uh public forum information but I will going be going out 672b where it’s discussed and decided upon on that item and secondly on item 165.7 just to flag up that I was lobbied

By a member of the marina theater trust before we had the meeting this morning um just so the people are aware of that thank you are there any other interests to know if you suddenly think of something during the meeting just flag it up to myself thank you 162.5 to

Consider written requests for dispensations for interests and note dispensations granted have we had any we haven’t no okay thank you can I also remind you that if you went to the panto on Friday at the Maria theater um if it was 50 or more in total that you

You must put that on your register of interests okay thank you that’s all right for some of us it was if there were two of you or more in the hospitality okay 163 to consider the draft minutes and confidential note of the full council meeting on the 28th of November

2023 and the draft minutes of the extraordinary full council meeting held on the 5th of December 2023 uh Council Pier I think was first so two things uh the the draft public meetings for both dates having with however um I would like to ask for a minute

1443b which was the one in relation to having a couple of review meetings with the other local par sorry uh the one about having the 144.350 approval of the um the public the minutes of the public session for both dates but just to say I couldn’t find the confidential note it wasn’t on

The members area when I looked earlier today Cancer books um I just want to pick up something the extraordinary Council minutes which is a bit unclear which is um halfway through sorry I haven’t got it open at the moment it says strategically 90% of it’s a sentence about halfway down about the

Third paragraph let me just find it it just doesn’t make sense it just needs tidying up a bit I think um let me find it on the confidential minutes confid the public minut 5th of December hang on it’s no it’s uh it’s the extraordinary meeting and the extraordinary meeting I’m talking

About were they the public minutes yeah there they are right and there’s a little bit about halfway through where it’s talking about taking out the loan and the first word is strategically I should have written it all down but I haven’t I apologize for that but it just

Needs Tiding up a bit it says 90% it doesn’t quite make sense I can’t even get I can’t get a match for strategically by doing a search on it further on it’s minor it’s minor I propose we approve it and I will find it statistically you mean statistically that’s the word Sarah yes

Statistically strategically so the sentence at the moment for clarity reads um statistically 90% of the time it would be possible to say that between 76% and 97% of people would have would support the taking out of the loan which is forba what she which is apparently of theate and

Record of what was said at the meeting yeah that was the project manager wasn’t it yes yeah perhaps just put it in there as a quote okay yeah that would then tid it up wouldn’t it if you just put in as a quote yeah okay yeah okay are you happy

With that Council Brooks yeah as long as it’s clear yeah I know what it means but it isn’t yeah that’s fine yeah okay right so if we go back to having a proposal to accept the minutes subject to the yeah to that seconded by Council web and a vote please thank you that’s

Good 164 um public forum if you we will welcome here two members of the first light team that’s Joe Leverett and Lizzy Hall uh all members were sent some information by first light um which is on the members area so you’ll have seen that and they are going

To speak to the it it 167 uh Point 2B which was about the Bowling Green item is this on do I do anything okay brilliant you got um right I’m Joe Hi and um Joe before you start yeah you’ve got three minutes I know Ed it to three minutes you’re

Aware yes I thought I’ve been practicing thank you that’s right um I’m Joe and this is Lizzy and we are the project managers for First Sight Festival um so firstly thank you everyone for um letting us come and speak to you this evening um we’d also say like to say really heartfelt thank

You all you do we’d also like to say really heartfelt thank you for all that you do as a valued partner a first flight Festival we really appreciate th of Town Council support as Sonia said we’re talking to um 167.5 B which is about lowest of Town

Council Bowling Greens um and use for bage bowls only um firstly hands up if you’ve been to First Light I hope you all have amazing um if you’ve been to the gardens you might have seen ideas on the green or gone to Planet positive and

I hope if you have been to those areas you’ll see how engaged our audiences are in that vital part of the festival offer you have seen parents cares and children interacting with soundscapes bird life insects learning more about their natural world there are amazing talks about the environment and local issues

And you can take part in an art Workshop animation and creative play these activities all take place on the Bowling Greens in Kensington Gardens I won’t read through the advanced information we sent as I hope you’ve all had a chance to have a look at it but I’ll just remind you of some

Of the highlights and why we would appreciate being able to continue to use just one of those Bowling Greens lto Town Council has been very forward thinking its response to the climate emergency and I’m sure you want to support us in our aims to power as much of the F

Festival as possible by solar we can do this on the Bowling Green it’s ideal we can position the panels next to seas and this sends a powerful message to your constituents about all of our intentions we’ll move the solar away if we have to but we’ hate to lose that

Impact Planet positive on the Bowling Green is our showcase for local and National partners with Natural History Museum and seast working side by side to bring the very best of Cutting Edge science to the people of Loft in a recent meeting they express concern about moving their highly

Sensitive not to mention very expensive equipment onto the beach which is the only alternative we have no room in Kensington Gardens so with that and with Jubilee parade development we’re already looking at significant disruption in 2024 we’re working hard with e Council to keep that to a minimum but it would

Help us hugely if we can work with you and your Bowling Green Partners too we’ll work with your partners and the clubs to make sure we mitigate against any damage as we always have done with all of our projects and we will Happ to engage with them about any

Concerns in advance we are deeply rooted in LOF the festival is for the residents here you can see that from the comments in fesal Lowdown which is also situated there on the green I have some copies here I’ll leave for you we’re not looking to get people from

London although if they come that’s fantastic and they’re very welcome if they take wave reviews back with them can I just say you’ve can you round it up now please I am thank you we love getting people from further field in northw and seot too it’s about time they

Visited LOF but our aim is to get 70% of our audiences from your Wards and we’re asking you to do this because we think LOF is special we want to shine a first light on the magical Kensington Gardens Kirkley and lower stoft as a whole we

Want everyone to see it in its glory for two days in June and we really hope we can continue doing that on the green okay thank you yes may right you can uh ask questions if you wish counselors councelor P yes so um I hear what you’re saying

That’s fine um but obviously there were also valid reasons why uh we had the item about the bow and green as well and and obviously it’s not just Kenston Gardens been singled out it would apply to sparis Nest as well um and they are first and foremost um Bowling Greens

Rather than event spaces but we had also asked our staff when this was first being discussed at committee level before it went to full councel and took the vote to basically give first light the heads up uh on what was being discussed and that this might happen to

Try and uh allow them time to come up with a plan be uh if the worst happen so we didn’t just drop it on them um round about the time they are considering submitting Grant and event applications and and allow them no time to make contingency plans so um this was by no

Means um like a sudden overnight decision that’s sort of been made at the last minute um but obviously you know I don’t know whether that’s been done and whether contingencies have been thought through but you know we are where we are um could I just ask a question though I

I hear what you’re saying about going down on the beach and I totally understand that but um in terms of uh if if other areas of Kenston Gardens other than the Bowling Green were not available what would the availability of Royal plane be yeah yeah um Royal plane isn’t part

Of the festival footprint it’s a contingency plan for sure but the ideal scenario is that it’s as access as accessible as possible in that it’s part of the festival footprint that people can get to it very easily and move around very easily yes but you it’s quite a distance

From that end of the town to the seafront caner books yeah just to make it clear this isn’t about supporting or not supporting first light this is about protecting our Bowling Greens which cost us an awful lot of money so um that is why we’ve made this decision it

Isn’t about whether we support first light or not and I don’t think you appreciate the amount of money that goes in to those Bowling Greens um for basically a one- day event it’s just is it really worth that to us I think the answer has to be no okay

Completely understand that and I understand that the Bowling Greens are for bows but we’ve always worked with um all of our partners and as far as I’m aware any damage that’s been done has always been repaired by us um of any of the assets that we use in Loft and post

Last this year’s Festival as far as I’m aware there wasn’t any damage to Green that would have been a cost LOF Town Council I would hope that we would have sorted that out in advance was there any damage done to the Bowling Green to speak yeah it’s all right I’m

I’m okay I’ve got um Christian then I’ve got Keith and I’ve got Paul so Christian did you want to speak now and then we’ll come back to you Sarah you hi um as a bowl in myself um it’s all about it’s not just about the green it’s about the lines the as you

Bowl and different types of woods um and the problem is when Marquees and things like that are put on it as I took pictures last year after the clearup was there’s I can only describe like Bal patches type things where the mares have made an imprint on the green itself

First light is at the height of the bowl season so one green is effectively unplayable for the rest of the season for members down at Kensington bows club and longer term over the course of the Season that will then affect the lines The Rinks and everything else uh

Of the wood as it goes up the green so that’s basically the point that it’s not just the damage on top it’s actually the damage longer term through the season which then takes longer to repair um so that’s basically the reason why I I mentioned it that’s that’s really

Helpful to understand thank you is there anything that we can do to prevent that can we roller it for example can we use fertilizer on the on the grass to help to mitigate that this is the first time we’ve heard this so we’d be really interested to see if we can work with

You to find a solution can I just bring in here because you you had some information and then I’ll come to Keith and then I’ll come to Paul thank you um so on inspection um you obviously we were having councilor Newton’s expert opinion as a bowler on inspection there

Wasn’t any damage this year there was the previous year there was other damage in the gardens that um was repaired and covered by first light um but to answer the question which I think was what the mayor wanted me to answer wasn’t any perceived damage on the greens this year

From B Bow’s users and maybe it was different but on a physical inspection um which was carried out before the festival and after the festival there wasn’t any damage to the greens this year there was the previous year okay um fertilizer B rolling no no no it’s part

Of a really planned and Advanced Maintenance program that’s done by specialist contractors okay thank you Keith asked one of my questions but my other questions are have we had any did we have any issues from the ground staff or in fact the bowling Club is not directly reported to the

Office the the other thing I’ve got to say In fairness supporting Council of Brooks to a certain extent bowl and green is for Bowling Green this could be the short end of the stick when other uh organization and say well can I have one down on the sparis nest you you allowed

It up in um Kensington Gardens so I I tend to uh not go along with the idea of allowing anything other than b on the greens thank you okay councelor paage yeah thank Sonia um I’m a supporter of the first night festival by the way I respectfully um listen to what

You said um Christian and if if you’re a bowler then you’re absolutely right we have to look after the Bowling Greens my concern was on your point about the environment and the climate emergency and having solar available for people to see on the day my question to you would

Be does it need to be on the Bowling Green could it be positioned somewhere else in the vicinity that’s one of the things that we’ll be looking at if we can’t use the Bowling Green we’ll have to recite yeah much of the stuff that we’ve got on there the reason that it’s

Really good place for it to be is it’s next to cast we can very visibly place the solar array next to the area that has been used for solar yeah it maybe if we have to reposition it it will be a solar array on the beach that’s a long

Way from where it’s powering yeah and you’ll lose that that message about why we’re trying to do that we actually created more solar power than we used on the Bowling Green this year unfortunately we can’t plug into the grid so we can’t get any money back out

Of it but that is a very important message to send for you and for us basically and there’s also the access issue which lizie just mentioned within our Festival footprint that that Bowling Green is a really important accessible part of the festival um and that’s another reason

Why we want to keep the solar there really it’s that everyone that goes to the festival gets that same message thank you thank you councelor P then web then councelor breaks yeah so um I think that it’s a difficult situation because I I don’t want us to

Appear obstructive but I agree that that bowling points but we started considering this issue like two months ago um and I said in at least two of those meetings what one committee where it’s discussed and also at for Council that could our staff Le a would

FirstLight and if this was going to come a problem they could think about contingencies and obviously I’d hoped that if this was going to cause difficulties we could have had this discussion at an earlier stage rather than after we’ve made the decision and a week before Christmas because it leaves

All of us um in a difficult situation really because it makes it look like we’ve been obstructive and caused problems when actually we went out of our way to try and let first night know that this was under consideration so that we could have taken any representations into account uh and

Tried to look for Alternatives at that time um um and um and I think the other issue is I I don’t want to repeat what’s already been said about the bowl and green but other than to say that basically I agree uh with pretty much it the difficulty we

Have also though is we have had a combination of um mild and serious antisocial behavior on the bowl and green at Sparrow’s Nest this summer um some of the stuff was actually abused towards the individuals playing and that was dealt with but the other stuff was probably unintentional

And Casual which is just kids rolling on there and rolling their running their bikes along it and and like the wheel ruts causing damage if we say to a kid you can’t will your bike on there because it causes ruts on the green but somebody else can go and put temp pegs

In the green um obviously we are then being inconsistent in our approach to other people about what you can and can’t do on the Bowling Grins and people will then start to say potentially it’s one rule for some and one rule for others and it therefore makes it difficult for us

To maintain a consistent position there but I say I Echo what’s been said earlier on about this isn’t the value judgment on first light that was never part of the consideration and that is why we had asked for First Light to be notified at an earlier stage so if this

Was going to cause a problem we could have started having the conversation about um supporting contingency plans to minimize the impact on FirstLight if the decision was made was made and um and obviously we had nothing back at that stage um and I think now we’re in a standoff really

Right I I’ll come to councelor web and councelor breaks for in a minute can you just clarify um what was said there that have or were first SL notified absolutely they were and that’s why the meeting paper was supplied by them and why they’re here this evening so yes

Without doubt notified when they when officers were instructed to do so and also are the just another point that councelor pierce made about pegs going in is that correct I I completely respect what councelor Pierce has said about you know one rule for one one rule for the other but cycling and problems

That we had at sparis Nest were directly onto the green and my understanding um is when we permit first light to use the greens they are covered over they come and have a big big covering over of a special platform boarding Etc so the grass already has some protections so

It’s not directly onto the grass but obviously what councelor Newsome has said it does leave some problems but it’s not quite the same as and if they weren’t covered over and they weren’t used for the festival I guess the thing Council would need to consider is how do

They protect the greens from picnickers people running over them and all the footfall that’s going to be in the town anyway so it’s it’s not an easy one is it no thank you councel web yeah councel break SP thank you um yeah number of things actually the poles

That are used to fix the Marquee um they’re put into the ground I mean they are quite Hefty spikes with mallets that go in and when they’re taken out they just taken out and gone there’s no repair done by the people that dismantle them so I know that

Talking to the grounds member that works up there he just fills them in with grass seed fertilizer whatever but there wasn’t really any teir to either Lea’s with the ground staff I know he’s not there on a Sunday when you finish to help him um repair those holes that’s

One thing the covering of the grass I agree with Christian if you cover grass for more than a certain amount of time I don’t know what the amount of time you are actually damaging the grass for longer and also with the public on there they go on there they don’t worry about

Whether it’s your lawn my lawn a piece of grass they don’t worry about it so they will do damage without even thinking um so that that is another thing to bear in mind the three things B yeah um we have worked with the groundsman to back fill those holes and

If there’s more that we can do we’ll certainly do that but we’ve taken his advice on what to do with those um the second one was what was the second part can remember the third um yeah um we do Kensington Gardens green last so that we do the least amount of damage possible

To those greens um and yes not my lawn but your lawn we actually carp it in the middle as well so we try and mitigate as much of the footfall on that space as possible yeah but you know the public do walk over all areas one solution that I’ve I mean okay

I am actually talking Wendy yeah yeah just wait councelor in fact counselor counselor pieres before you and then when we come to you I’m next and then we’ll have to wrap it up okay one one solution which we did think of last year SE fast I know they had some

Problems with their grass area at the front now they seem to have resolved that problem that would be in my opinion an ideal location to have you mentioned CEST have it there they face east Southeast so you’re going to get a lot of sun on the solar panels and

It will be a great way of showing Seas off to the general public in in our opinion a few of us that are talking so I would strongly recommend that maybe you look at that as an area that would yeah overcome this problem and we’re definitely doing that Bob the problem is

Having their Windows done yet again okay thank you okay yeah get we we’re rapidly approaching the yeah with the 15 minutes for this item we’ve gone over the we’ve gone over so if counselors can just um be aware of that so it’s councelor PS then counselor books and then sorry no

Wendy I had Wendy I had my hand up no Wendy please hang on can we just calm down a minute please thank you I have written down here for speaking I put my you acknowledge me I put my hand out carried on speaking other people spoke then you right as far as I’m

Concerned and the as chair i s I have written down here councilor Pierce in then next you counselor books so thank you councelor pis much for saving make it so basically the point that was made uh by Sarah um about officers contracted uh contacted first Lo when instructed

I’m not talking about when instructed when the decision was made at an early stage when this was being considered in committee by parks and Aid our staff were asked to speak with first lights and let them know that this was under consideration and that this decision

Might be made what I was hopeful was that first light would then make representations whilst the whilst the situation was under consideration not have to consider this after a decision has been made that was the point I was trying to make if if if the representation had been submitted or

Passed on to us whenever it came in I don’t know at the point that it was under active consideration we might have been able to take that into account in the decision and consider alternatives to do it a week before Christmas after a decision’s been made puts everybody

First light and us in a difficult situation yeah thank you Andy informed in advance bearing in mind that this item will be discussed under uh 167.5 B later in the meeting councelor Brooks yes I mean I’d like to I was what I’m going to say is I think we’ve moved

This as quickly as we can it’s gone through Parts it’s gone through Aid it’s come to full Council and First Sight have been notified and we’re only in December um I’d like to support Bob’s suggestion but make it bigger than that I would like first like to go away and

Look at alternative sites and see if you can actually put these mares somewhere else because of the damage that your tents and mares due to our bowling G so I’m proposing excuse me do that later my suggestion first SL at this stage is that you go away and you actively

Investigate alternative places to put the market theing can I just intervene here and say that we can only do that when we come to the agenda item and yeah yeah yeah not not now so we have we are 672b you can then look at the proposal I

Will be in the room and it’ll be councelor B we’ll be chairing but I think if we leave it there because this is public forum item okay well thank you uh Joe and thank you Lizzy behind you there and um okay you you can stay in the public

Are to watch when the item is discussed later or you can leave us up to yourselves I’m very bad sitting on my hands and zipping my lips so I think I’ll leave it to you guys to discuss and we’ll um find out what happens just just

To say we are going to have to probably put back a safety Advisory Group meeting in January due to this decision because we weren’t informed in advance and we weren’t able to supply any information before it got to fall C I will get the evidence you okay so we we’ll leave it

With our with with um Sarah our Deputy Town Clark because I was aware that she had informed yourselves um I’d be interested to see I couldn’t find it so thank you right okay thank you very much thank you and for counselors obviously my colleague we whatsapping me now to

Say did we can we can look at this in more depth at 167.5 B right 165 Finance no no sorry chair oh right so other public comments received been circulated if all members can confirm they have seen them if they want to consider them now as the public forum or

When we get to the agenda item and Lauren can you confirm if there’s anyone joining us on the webinar who wishes to speak as well please apologies for that councelor thank you this was regarding item if you just wait a minute councelor Brooks sorry about that yeah item 165.7 uh sorry no

65.6 to consider making donations to assist those affected by conflicts in Ukraine and and Gaza we had five public responses sorry four public responses and they have all been sent round to counselors and hopefully you’ve all read them okay just so that you’re aware of that uh counselor

Brooks unbelievable um can I suggest we deal with those when we get to that item y thank you coun peace I just ask are we talking about the same responses that will circulate ahead of FG or other has been circula same ones same ones same ones yeah okay

Yeah apologies for me I was focusing on people leaving right thank you back on to the agenda so you gonna say something yeah I I don’t know if this is allowed but I was gonna propose that we move the balls um green item to now and discuss it now

Because we’ve had so much discussion about it already and then obviously you have to leave and come back so I was just going to ask if we can bring that forward to now well you vote to move the order of business yet yeah okay I’ll propose that

All right I’ll second it if we can have a vote if you wish to move it to now to get it discussed yep okay so 167 point2 B and then I will leave and then come back okay right oh yeah Bob’s gone to help them out they don’t you can get

Out here here yeah but you haven’t got the double control what’s you don’t need to turn yours on and off it’s the Chairman’s one you can talk okay cool I’ve lost the agenda now but um yeah does anybody have any comments councelor Brooks well I propose

Oh sorry I propose we approve this um that we the town council’s bows greens both farest and kenson Gardens are used for the purpose of bows and no other events because of the the dam done to them that’s my and all in favor I’m abstaining Okay so we’ve got

One two three four five six seven eight nine four any against and abstentions two abstentions makes 11 with councelor Barker missing that’s correct thank you yes councelor Pier can I can I ask that we do go back with to first like with clarification of when we

First told them that because we did try and preempt this situation and give them as much notice impossible before the decision was made in parks and a and I understood from uh Chris in those meetings that he had spoken with them but I don’t know whether it was in

Writing but he did say he’d spoken them to let him know it was under discussion but I don’t know who he spoke with 100% he spoke to them I heard his end of the conversation I will not have it in a public meeting that we did not contact

Them we did that’s can you it he said he spoken with someone but I don’t know who he did yeah okay so that decision is carried shall I go get please okay thank you thanks to coun right so we’re back on to the agenda please right 165 finance and

Governance 165.1 to receive a note the draft minutes to the finance and governance committee meeting on the 12th of December 20123 they will come out at the meeting won’t they and 165 point2 to consider the following recommendations to the finance and governance committee that’s 165.1 a

Council pe’s chair do you wish for those to be voted in on block well say up to other counselors so I didn’t know unless somebody wants to single one of them out to comment um if they are happy to vote on them on block or if they if they’ve got comments on

One but if they want to say can we deal with all of them except this I wish to comment on it um I would propose you deal with it that way okay thank you councelor Brooks yeah just to check double check that the times have gone into the disciplinary grievance and the

Complaints procedures no we agreed them as long as they’re in there and um also for people who don’t know this but I’ve suggested that we change the phos that we get rid of the you know the uh the cycle track on the South Beach and actually replace it one on the

Galp and that we we use um because that’s our land and we also that we use um one of those fabulous historic photographs of people cycling over the bridge to work that I believe Sarah’s trying to find the original copy for but apart from that if and is proposing we

Approve these I second y okay and a vote please thank you I think that’s unanimous yeah thank you and thank you to finance and Governor committee members for for considering that as well so thanks for that it was actually a a small working group oh is a working group well even

More so then thank you 165.7 to receive and consider the following 165.7 a 2023 to 24 budget and reserves they have been circulated I believe to members yeah so thank you any queries nope 165.7 B any bank reconciliations I think they are okay aren’t they Sarah from what I think as

Far as October and James will prepare November when he’s um yeah available again okay thank you 165.7 C payments and income for the month ending the 30th November 23 and December 2023 to date they they have been uploaded I believe have they yes you’ve been provided those

Schedules you need to um they accept them or you need to vote to accept right okay so councils need to vote to accept can have a proposer councilor Pier propose and a second to councilor bam and a vote please yeah that’s unanimous thank you 165.7 d payments for approval I

Don’t think there’ have been any have there no thank you 165.1 to note the interim internal audit report okay that’s just a note so yeah we’ve seen that okay thank you 165.540 coun Brooks um yes um I don’t know if our staff have managed to get any update

Because I I gather the Town Council was approached a couple of years ago about or we made an approach to the fundraising to make the Britain as a boy statue um and didn’t have any response so um it was requested that staff actually reapo appr them to

See if they would be willing to accept donations from the Town Council that was the first thing yes can so can a clarification on that bit please thank you Lauren yeah we can they’ve confirmed that we can make a donation or purchase a maette they would they would welcome

Either from us thank you so can I just finish yeah I propose we do donate to this it’s a personally I think it’s it’s a lovely statute and Benjamin Britain is obviously probably the first uh free Brean of the town or one of them um International reputation all the rest of

It I’m not sure how much I did actually if I can put talk about be as well they are actually doing very limited editions of the maette but the first one which is like 4 and a half thousand is all sold out so the mid range is eight and a half

And I thought it looked really nice in the town hall but it’s a lot of money and I don’t know if how budget will stand it so um I’d like us to make a financial donation I’m up you know if people think we should donate and very

Much it depends very much on the budget what we’ve got available and the same with be really can we afford it blah blah do people think we should thank you councelor BS councelor peerce and then councelor B yeah so uh I just I agree with wend that the two should be

Considered together because as far as far as I’m concerned 165.540 proposition not both um obviously we don’t have to do either but but if we do I think the the idea from fngg was to pass it on to full councel without a recommendation but on the basis that if

We proceed it’s one or the other not both um and um and uh just to clarify uh when they when they approach a couple of years ago where there was like an outline of the project and signatures of we did get a response but we didn’t get the specific

Information we had because I think it was too early in the project for them to have an idea but we we had no idea what the fundraising Target was what sort of kind of donation they were looking for and so I think it was just parked until the project had progressed rather it

Didn’t sort reach any firm conclusion um uh in relation to the purchase of a mikette um uh I agree personally that if we if we did it it would be nice to have something like that as a tangible sign of like our donation and it could go in the town hall but that

Then leaves the question of where does it go in the intervening two years uh that needs to be considered to keep it secure and safe um what I would also like to propose before a decision is made or or throw out there before a decision is made because um we are in

The final quarter of the financial year and and uh if a majority of members want to do this whether it’s a donation or a m we probably could free up the funds but if they are still s halfway or just over way to their fundraising Target we

Know the end day is um I wondered what councilors would think about essentially given the pledge now but on the basis that we would make the donation in April at the start of the next financial year and it would therefore reduce the squeeze on what remains of the 232 24

Grant budget okay thank you uh councilor ban um so when we discussed it at Finance um last week um their target is 110,000 and they’d raised just over 50 um I’ve just looked at their website and they’ve raised 880,000 so they’ve managed to raise another 30 within that week um I I

Agree that M would be quite nice but I just can’t justify spending that amount it’s 8,400 it’s a lot of money um the other option with the with the Don be uh the donation amount it’s on their website that if we donate um if individuals or businesses can contribute ,000 pounds or

More they can have their name or a loved one so we could have we could become a named donor if we donate um ,000 pounds or more so my proposal would be if I can make a proposal um to donate ,000 and be a named donor you got their website yes I does

It give an end to the fundraising campaign do it say what the 12 end until the funds arose so they’ve got an exclusive fundraising event in March 2024 as well so I’m I’m assum I I guess they will reach their target by then if they managed to raise 30,000 in

A week I think we can assume that they will manage to raise their target of 110,000 by March at least so I think it’ll be nice if we as a council are a named donor um and I just think we need to be careful about how much we

Spend okay thank you can I have so you’ve made a formal Pro proposal can I have a second for that proposal no one it okay well if you speak now uh Council books there’s a lot in that proposal I think I think we can be more generous in the

Thousand um I think we should be looking at two two and a half thousand donation to it um if we can leave it until April I think that is a possibility the thing about the Marette is they’re all limited editions so it isn’t like you’re buying something that’s value won’t increase

Potentially because this is all very wellknown sculpture potentially but it is something we can revisit because it is a lot of money it is something we can revisit but they will go there they’re only making 30 and then that’s it so it’s basically a bit of an investment

As well if we would want to go down that route however at the moment if Nima is willing to increase the amount and if we can delay it until April unless we’ve got two and a half thousand well we’ve got it but we don’t know what’s coming

In in the next months if we can delay it until April or we could compromise somewhere along the line a Sema I don’t think they’ll need it in April sorry I don’t think they’ll need it in April because they’ve got their their fundraising event in March so I think they’ll have

Hit their target by then so that’s why I said if we donate a thousand now and then maybe in April we can if they haven’t reached their target maybe we can say we’ll give a little bit more a second your proposal then okay right are we clear what we’re voting for yeah Okay

So we’ve got a proposal and a second and then a vote please on that y I think that’s unanimous thank you can I sorry can I just be clear does it say over ,000 so do we need to give 1,020 this is ,000 pounds or more oh

That’s fine so it’s yeah it is okay I can see it on the website thank you uh Council B okay so really that’s 165.540 assist those affected by conflicts in Ukraine and Gaza and I refer back to the four comments we’ve received in the public four and five

Sorry five thank you councilor Pier yeah so I just want to clarify uh I W I won’t do it into so much detail as I did in fngg but I do want to give some background to this item um this there was no proposal or motion underpinning

This item uh FG hasn’t made a recommendation on this item um when we had December fngg one of the members um asked the staff for this to go on the agenda and I was asked what I thought and I said we know from the Ukraine donation we made previously that we have

The legal right to do this if we wish to do it under General par competence which is a separate question from should we do it so I said I have as chair I have no right to prevent this item being discussed so allowed it onto the

Agenda that is the background to how it came on the agenda there is no motion no proposal um the pros and cons were discussed by fngg um we realized the argument that that basically Paris Council precept should be spent in Paris Council I completely respect that uh as I did with

The previous donation and if that is people’s position they’re entitled to make it um what I said was though that basically the world has moved on from 1894 and parishes aren’t self-contain out so where do our pension contributions go what are they invested in um the utility companies what they

Are invested in so like it or Lo it basically we live in a world that extends Beyond this Parish that is not saying I support a donation um the uh so it it’s there is no right and wrong with an issue like this when we had the

Ukraine Den otion before we we had people on on one website in particular but not exclusively there who were very vocally against it some of us here actually spoke with people on our Wards who were very strongly in favor of it at that time for that specific purpose

Um there is no political motive behind this suggestion there is no it is not saying about taking a part asand stance in the issue and also with the original item which never made it onto the agenda uh it was specifically appended to the item especially for children so uh it

Was it was primarily for uh civilian relief uh and and particularly for children um and that was part of what was asked uh on the agenda uh I am not making any proposal about whether we should or shouldn’t do it I completely respect the arguments for and against

But I just wanted to be clear C for the public record um that what this is and what it isn’t okay thank you councelor P councelor Brooks yes I mean I put this on the agenda and what oops I put I put it on the on the f&g agenda and thanks

Andy for clarifying that when I asked it to go on the agenda I specifically said particularly humanitarian Aid to women children and you you know basically is humanitarian Aid to those people in both Ukraine and Gaza who’ve had no say in the way that the people who lead

Them have been behaving Hamas is a terrible organization as is the Israeli government as is Vladimir Putin um the people you know the victims are of course particularly children and women you know stuck in awful rubble and terrible things happening and it occurred to me when I was I think a

Couple of weekends ago there was kind of more horrible news about what was going on in Gaza and the struggles that the hospitals are having in terms of looking after people so I thought well this time of year it’s Christmas surely as a Town Council on behalf of the people of

LOF not all of the people of LOF of course but on behalf of the people of LOF we could make a donation to one of the humanitarian Aid agencies that particularly for children something like UNICEF say the children I don’t know I’d ask us St if we’re minded to do it to

Actually find the best possible charity but actually given the time of year and as Andy says we’re not a little T we’re not a we’re not an island everything that goes on in the world affects us all um and on the public comments all those public comments have come from one

Particular page because I’ve read them all it’s not a large page it’s not I’m not dismissing what they’re saying but um it isn’t necessarily represented of all the people in lowestoft because it is a very small group of people that doesn’t mean to say they don’t have the

Valid points but they do they do make other allegations like why don’t you give to food banks and when I point out to them yes we do give to food banks actually they ignore that and they say well why don’t you House people because basically L sou Town Council doesn’t

House people why don’t you bend the pools I mean we do I think you know it is very much about what we represent I think it’s you know being a Humane Forward Thinking Council I think I mean I’m not saying how much because I think it’s very much a gesture

Rather than no amount of money can really undo what’s going on in either Ukraine or in Gaza but those Aid agencies are desperately in need of money and um I don’t know I was thinking maybe something like a thousand quid or something but as a gesture thank you councelor BRS councelor

B um yeah so we we discussed this at length at um the finance and governance meeting and my uh the point that I made at that meeting was that I don’t believe any amount of money is going to have much of an impact and uh Wendy you

Mentioned about gestures and I said what a bit an a more impactful gesture would be if the Town Council sent out a message saying that we call for a permanent ceasefire and I think um Sarah you’re going to check if we’re allowed to do so um but that would be my

Proposal I don’t think we should be sending any money I just don’t think it’ll have the impact that we we would like it to it’s just a like just a gesture but we we should be calling for a ceasefire whether the Town Council can

Do that or not I don’t know but that is my my proposal okay thank you just to say that we have Ukrainian refugees living in LOF um some of them are young adults at college so it might be um that we think about reaching out to them uh through various organizations

You know they’re not far away they’re actually in our town and I met some of them so um that just that’s just a thought so we’ve got a proposal yeah from yours actually are we yeah I made that proposal well councelor Bam’s major proposal for cease I don’t know we can been

Propos second to be V okay yes yeah um I can I just say on the ceasefire I’ve actually I contacted Democratic services on C we as a Town Council I’ve heard nothing sa apparently only need the staff and uh the chair of the council can get guidance about if we can

Actually as a as a parish town I don’t know and I they didn’t answer that question so I really don’t know if we can or we can’t I mean I’m not certainly not against to but I am very much in favor of put your money where your mouth

Is as well right so we’ve got a proposal from no we haven’t had a seconded proposal no this is what I was thinking we haven’t had a second propos I think the the one thing I would like to say that makes this very different from the previous occasion well two things

Actually one’s already been mentioned yeah um that we have Ukrainian refugees living locally now now when we made the Ukraine Refugee donation before yeah essentially within the first weeks following the invasion we had the largest Refugee crisis in Europe since the end of the second world war and they

Were all in refugee camps mainly women and children in neighboring countries they were out of the war zone but they were in refugee camps in the winter the donation we made was not a gesture it was for practical support through an emergency relief uh agency because there were very few

Ukrainian refugees at that early stage living in the UK never mind in suffk um and so therefore we made the decision to do that donation to basically get it where it was most needed at that point um and um and we also made it through defra because at that point defra were

Up to a limit doubling donations so we tried to maximize the donation as well um but it was not paid to an overseas government or any overseas agency it was paid through a UK government coordinated charity organization um so it did not go to any overseas government or or political

Group at all um so um no no I didn’t say you were Wendy um so the the but the issue um but I did mention in FNG that obviously during the interim um since we made that donation as far as the Ukrainian refugees are concerned as you’ve just said Sonia some

Of these Ukrainian refugees have not just come to the UK they’ve settled in suffk and they’ve settled locally so as far as the Ukrainian aspect of this proposal is concerned I had suggested could we get in contact with the relevant coordinating body I don’t know whether it is east suff or whether it’s

A multi- agency thing to find out whether we could Channel some funds through that to support the refugees who are living locally and then make a decision for or against regarding the Gaza aspect of this proposal okay in terms of The Proposal it was mentioned at the time by

Sara that we would have to take legal advice as to whether you know to guard against the fact this was seen as political the point was made I made it that actually you can call for a ceas far for humanitarian reasons as well as political reasons um and um and if it

Works which obviously bigger people than us have tried this and been ignored um it would save more lives in any amount of money um but I appreciate that we would probably need legal advice on the wording of The Proposal so that it was seen as humanitarian and not

Political that’s another proposal but I would like to say that it is possible to call for a ceasefire without doing so for political reasons right so we need to see the advice that we need to seek we had that advice Sarah can I just ask or have we

Not because that’s important isn’t it no no no we haven’t right so sorry I’ve misunderstood if it was a definite ref resolution for me to get that advice I misunderstood that right okay but there was no proposal all right so there is no proposal thank you okay I know it’s not

Difficult to miss things at the moment but no I did I haven’t done that it’s unusual for a local Council to be so bold but equally with the general power of competence you are able to do anything an individual can do unless there’s another statutary Authority doing it

So it’s it’s unusual it’s not impos it’s not illegal it’s unusual it’s unusual right okay so we’ve can we can we I’m trying to yeah but I wanted clarify something because I I am willing to change my proposal right good okay because I don’t want to like people feel

I’m a goodie I’m a baddy whatever I don’t want people because people have different reasons for why they don’t want to give money and it isn’t necessarily because they’re not appalled by what’s going on in Gaza so I don’t want to give that message I think if you

Vote against it’s because you don’t care I don’t want that resolution I am more than happy for us to say on humanitarian grants we we we support probably three quarters of the world calling for ceasefire we back those calls for a ceasefire I also think that because other people have said look

There are people all over you know CH conflicts are going on all over the world that maybe we can just simply make a donation to one of the Children’s Charities as a Christmas gesture in recognition of PE you know humanitarian need and you know you can go Syria Rush wherever but

We do it in that way so we call for this ceasefire in uh Ukraine and we make a donation to one of the in Ukraine both we we make it to an international we make it to one of the big Charities that actually specifically look after either children in war war

Torn countries or refug I don’t know I just I’m just trying to think a way out of this right cancer can I just clarify you you said a ceasefire in Ukraine do you mean because I’m thinking Ukraine I’m also thinking because you you know there are people I don’t know I mean

That somebody help me out right councelor book so what you’re saying is all right okay C councelor pi I can because we need we need to move on here yeah we do but OB if everybody’s talking over each other we’re doing exact opposite we’re getting bogged down

Yeah Cel is so basically um I hear what Wendy’s saying and and a personal level deep down I agree with uh but it’s very difficult to know what we as Paris Council can say in respect of a ceasefire but but and and who’s going to listen to us

Which is not to say that we shouldn’t do it but but I I think you know rather than you know call to the world to to like for a ceasefire I I think um perhaps our proposal should be to the UK government to ask them to

Call for a ceas fire in the Ukraine and Gaza um and um and we will be ignored but we would at least have tried okay so otherwise who was the recipient of our message right so is that that’s a new proposal that was my proposal that was that was you just

Tweaked a little I’m just I’m just throwing out a suggestion so if if one of you want to take it on board as an amendment that that’s entirely up to you yeah yeah the money I’m not getting involved in that but because I’ve already said what I think about that but

My proposal was that we as a council um support the idea of a Seas fire now Andy has added the the um amendment that we call the government for that I’m happy to accept that okay as a only because I think if we’re calling for SE we need to

Make it clear who we are asking yes to I think also need to be clear asking for on humanitarian grounds and not political grounds right so as my proposal seems to have got kind of completely changed now so there’s no mention of any Financial contribution I will keep my original proposal on the

Table and say that we will make a financial contribution to um the humanitarian crisis in Gaza and Ukraine because there’s two separate proposals now aren’t there there’s one calling for a ceasefire and there is one saying we will give a monetary Financial contribution I think that’s the point

It’s two separate proposals and it needs to be dealt with as such two separate ones yeah right so so councelor Brooks has made a proposal I think councelor paig is indicated you might second that is that right okay Brook need us a second yeah yeah we we

Just yeah c councelor paig is now willing to speak to this I I would like to say something yeah thank thanks Sonia um I I remember back to what happened in with the Ukraine donation it made me very proud to be on this CC that we made

That stand at that time it is Christmas and it’s the time when we we do draw our thoughts to people who are in a worse situation than ourselves and you know it’s on the televisions we see it every day we hear it on the radios it’s terrible and I think if this Council

Can’t make a small donation to an emergency aid somebody who can be trusted to go in there and help those families help those children those women who suffering now then we should do that and I I disagree with you Naim I think money does make a difference if it’s in

The right hands you can get food in there you can get medical supplies in there you can get water in there which we all need to live and I think that just I mean the idea of saying that we’re going to ask ask for a ceasefire that’s not going to make any difference

Whatsoever that that’s at government level and that’s not going to happen Andy in this with this government so I think that we have to make I would like to propose second Wendy suggestion that we make not a great amount of money a small donation to show how this Council

Feels the people of this of this area where we where we live are impoverished themselves they know what it’s like a lot of people will we represent don’t have a lot of money but I think they would be with us on this in the majority to help those in need that’s what I’d

Like to say I second Wendy’s so that’s the second of Wendy’s proposal are you willing to well we need to do one we’ll we’ll do we’ll do this one first one at a time yeah I think that’s what we need to do you say how much though yeah can

We have a an a limit made a proposal hold a second event but you haven’t said how much you haven’t said how much 150000 1500 all right yes that’s councel web okay so are you happy with that councelor Brooks right so we’ve got the first proposal on this then is Council

Books proposed Council pay second and a vote please that we are giving ,500 to an organization that’s dealing with humanitarian like UNICEF or the Red Cross or whatever okay thank you who’s G to decide who who it goes goes yeah that’s that’s the other thing but I think we could

We yeah it could be the red Red Cross or the the red crescent as well isn’t it and red cres is different is different and and and it’s similar but different and you’ve got um UNICEF as well who working there so if we take the suggestion of the Red

Cross yeah are you happy with that councelor Brooks in your proposal I just coun in terms of the name of the J yeah a recognized UK or International charity dealing that we if this passes yes that we delegate the choice to our St y that’s fine because I don’t know which

One is and there’s the because there’s the dce one which covers all of the Charities that’s the multi multi- charity one okay so if we can have a vote on that please there we go one two three four five six seven eight nine four against against one abstentions

Two right okay and now we C sorry councelor P I was gonna come back to councelor B I just want to come back on Paul’s point about the um mic microphone please about calling for a ceasefire I totally know that we will be ignored okay uh that is not in dispute

The point I was trying to come back on that in trying to formulate a proposal if we are going to make such a proposal The Proposal needs to say who we are making it to and therefore I had suggested that um given that international relations in this country

Are basically dealt with by the national government that we should ask our national government to call for a ceire um I’m under no Illusions as to what they will you know basically we will just be ignored won’t be told no we will just be ignored but uh do we just

Not do things because we are going to be ignored either um so uh that was the only reason I said what I said to try and help with the if somebody wants to make this proposal to help with framing the proposal nothing more than that I’m

Not sort of making any view on whether I think it’s got likely to succeed or not okay C if you’d like to propose that is my proposal yes okay can I have a second to please for Thea’s proposal councilor Webb are we clear what we’re voting on

And and could I just say that it needs to be exploited in The Proposal that we are doing this for humanitarian reasons yeah yeah okay you’re you’re you’re right with that okay so we’re clear what we’re voting on right those in favor one two three four five six seven eight those

Against those abstaining four yeah okay thank thank you um so just say son my understanding of with our general power of confidence we can do anything that an ordinary person can do an ordinary person can write to the government can’t they say we want to ceas fire that’s all we’re doing yeah

Yeah can we just move on now because obviously Sarah Sarah did explain that earlier so thank you right okay 165.7 to receive feedback from a meeting uh with the marina theater trust held this morning here um Sarah would you like to just sum up um councilor Pierce yeah um

I don’t think we’re got a s the different I think other than to say we we’ve all agreed that we’re going to have a follow-up meeting to determine viability and a path forward and yeah I don’t think there’s any point um discussing the specifics of what was discussed in that meeting let the

Viability meeting happen and uh I do think that we’re going to need to have an extraordinary for council meeting in mid January to consider the budget so potentially uh any decision on the future of the Town Hall should be on that sorry of the marina theater project

To to minimize any delay beyond that viability meeting should probably be on that same agenda yeah thank you um the meeting is going to be held on the 11th of January in the afternoon um there’s nothing really more to add to that is there no okay thank you we’ll move on um

Item yeah that was going to be disgusting confidenti yeah any actions well there weren’t any of such the ones that we’ve given out in public okay 166 Town Hall project um Sheila uh won’t be here yet because I haven’t texted to tell her Sheila Sheila mosing well we’ve got one

Or two items before then she will be giving her her progress update which was sent round to everybody I believe in in paper form um 66.1 to receive a note the draft minutes of the Town Hall project committee meeting held on the 7th of December which we’ve been sent I

Believe 166 point2 to consider acceptance and signing arrangements for the esaa council Grant agreement for the town hall project um hello Sarah sah all right yeah I was gonna ask for direct 900000 contribution yeah yeah so um there is two matters um that need resolving one is the signing of the towns fund

Agreement which e suff at Council have provided the final draft of which we need to take outside of this meeting yeah there is the signing of the eaer council direct Grant agreement which is a similar worded document that you need to make arrangements or a delegation to

Sign or whatever you want to do about accepting that right okay so as far as I’m aware we have to take this outside of the meeting don’t we to to decide to to actually sign it as you said a draft been provided to members it’s um up to them how they want to

Progress yeah how do you want wish to progress with this councelor Pierce well I think full Council needs to assign whether they’re happy of the document and they want to sign it uh generally for a finance document uh over the last few years there’s normally been two signatures required on

The Town Council it’s normally the chair the May and chairi of person a chairi of fngg who would physically sign it but they don’t make the decision the decision is made by for councel as whether they want for Council to sign it and then they are the people who sign in

Practice but they don’t actually say we’re going to make the decision and sign it no the for Council needs to decide whether it’s happy for that document to be signed and then appointed people go and sign it yeah okay councilor Brooks yes let’s sign it let’s

Say thank you very much um for the towns it’s towns fund money isn’t it no it’s the other money it’s the yes yeah the it’s the other one it’s a 900 two funded agreement yeah for the to fund one for the direct contribution both with an attached payment schedule saying how the

Payment will be drawn down yeah yeah yeah that’s it I think yes we do it okay so that’s the proposal councilor b u if that’s the proposal I second it but um do we know what the signing arrangements are because you said it was mayor and

FNG chair is that is that the case what you need to decide oh that’s what we need then I’m happy to propose the mayor and the chair of the FG to sign on behalf of the council okay right so because add add that to your proposal

Yes okay and I can have a second do you want a second as you said and ask the question and a vote please thank you that’s that’s four against abstain it’s two thank you actually probably yeah I was just gonna say do you want to retrospectively declare an

Interest I don’t believe you did at the start of the meeting they did did they all right sorry I did yeah yeah you technically they should have left the meeting yeah I was just I just suddenly realized that right okay thank you but as they as they’

Abstained right okay thank you one sorry that’s we should just spot that is Sheila about to come is she is I think the reason is I I don’t know whether gr and Keith recognized because it like with the towns fund money but although he suffer access to towns fund money the doc the

Government does not appear as the lender in the document Esa at Council appears as the lender and the Town Council appears as the recipient so the document will actually show that the Town Council is receiving this Grant from suffer Council yeah okay 166 point3 to consider the following regarding the delivery

Stage of the Redevelopment of the T allall 16638 to receive a note a progress report from the project manager so if Sheila could come in that would be really helpful hi there um good evening everyone can you hear me okay yes we can okay good I’m not deafening you equally

Good no okay that’s fine right okay so you’ve had my report um just a couple of updates on that um first of all the Public Works loan board application uh went in um Tuesday Monday sign last week last week went to C was signed off very quickly by them and has

Gone to dck for approval so um thank you in particular to to Sarah and to James for the work that they did on that to to pull out the final stops and get it off hopefully we’ll here within eight weeks um Christmas might work on our favorite

Might work against us the sooner we here obviously it means the sooner we can get permission to start and start drawing down money from the heritage fund um and the only other update that I have for you is that um the evaluation panel for the contract administrator met

Yesterday um and we had some excellent bids and it took quite some debate to work our way through those bids and um ultimately hat projects were appointed to the role they are currently leading the design team um so it’s not unusual to have them also undertake contracts admin

But we did actually have several Alternatives that we considered really in depth as to whether or not they would offer um a better service um you know but in the end the quality of the Hat bid was the one that we um we stuck with so they will be going ahead advising on

The procurement process for the main contract in the new year thank you for that that’s all I have to say to you and if you have any questions I’m happy to take them can can I before we take questions can I just thank everybody involved with the recent

There were two evaluations one for the quantity surveyor and one in Short very short time span we also had the contracts administr so administrated can I just thank everybody involved in that because it involved a huge amount of work scoring and then the evaluation meeting so thank you for that um questions can

Piece uh yeah question for Sheila did we uh at November 4 Council we gave approval also I believe to procure the uh the evaluation consultant yes we we we got approval to appoint to to start the procurement for the evaluation consultant and for the contract sorry for the construction design manager as

Well if if a if a miracle occurs I will get those out before Christmas I think the reality is that we’ll advertise them from the 4th of January instead okay so I don’t think much lost I know you advised that with the with the main Construction contract there would need to be

Uh significant like input advice whatever the the word is that you want to use from the um was it from the architect and design and the contract administrator yes we would would yes we would need input to the evaluation process from um some from the the design

Team lead but predominantly from the Qs and the contracts admin okay so person so if we go out to procurement for the evaluation consultant in the first week in January um I’m not sure whether this is a like a below threshold or above threshold so what would the time scale

For procurement be like to get beds in and then have the evaluation meeting for that um we’d probably advertise for three weeks and then do the evaluation a week after that okay thanks very much any other questions for Sheila okay well thank you shilia for all your work particularly uh in the

Recent weeks and your team um thanks very much thank you I I I I I get thanked by you which is is lovely but I I should note that there are I think I don’t think I counted them up correctly I think there’s at least 25

Other people that are um on the the design team other members of the team interpretation consultants and so on who all beavering away in the background there really is quite an industry um taking place to make sure this massive project goes ahead yeah i’ just like to wish everyone um Merry Christmas and

I’ll see you next year for what should be a a very exciting year in the life of the Town Hall yeah great thank you very much and than very much for your time good night thank you bye yeah right we’re now gonna have a comfort break as

It’s 800 PM for five minutes if we can oh let stretch it to seven minutes if we seven minutes past eight please back here just say quickly before we go just relating to what Sheila’s just said about as a Town Council I hope we are sending messages of Goodwill to our town

Hall project team I know there’s a I know staff got loads on but I think it would be nice if uh Sonia yeah organize something so we can send a a thank you a thank you to the whole team yes yeah yes okay could you just all remain in the

Room while Lauren stops the live stream for the comfort break please thank you thank you counselor patience we we’re now 18 18167 as assets inclusion and and development 16 7.1 to receive and note the draft minutes of the assets inclusion and development committee meeting on the 4th of December

2023 I think we’ve had those haven’t we or are they in process yeah we have 167 point2 to consider the following recommendations from the assets inclusion development committee 67.2 a for Clarks Lane a thermal walk to be the two play areas refurbished in 2024 to 2025 that’s in elree

Ward just to let people know counselor peace uh so propose uh but can I also ask that um we try and get the procurement underway in terms of contacting the bids in like quarter one of 20124 so that basically the bids can be evaluated as early as possible in the 2425 Financial

Yeah yeah so try and get the procurement underway this year even though the refurb will be in 2425 that sounds really sensible I’ll second that and a vote please right against and abstentions two extensions I miss okay did you wish to vote councel yeah he’s four so two exensions two exensions two

Exensions yeah okay thank you um and welcome back if you’re watching this is the second part after uh a comfort break of last of time Council full council meeting uh 167 point2 B has already been done 168 planning 168.192 as fine however Elise will have to do training before she joins the

Committee which I have highlighted yes so that we probably won’t be meeting now so after Christmas get an online one sorry um yeah I thought it was within six no no no wasn’t it before they join the planning committee it’s different for the appraisal but it’s you can do it

It’s like literally there’s a c on the course okay well but it is the all that all members of the planning committee will receive planning seems to me very sensible so I propose acceptance yes approval of at least joining the planning committee and that plan uh um online trading will be yeah provided

That’s good I just to check I thought the training was yeah was was agreed within six months but anyway Sarah’s just checking that so that’s your so that that’s that’s your proposal is that councelor Brooks councelor peer recollection before the AGM the uh it needs to be checked but the

Proposal for those who do the Clark’s appraisal was that they had to have received the appraisal training by I can’t remember it was the end of October end of November um the one for planning was that all members of planning should receive training I cannot remember whether we set a window for that

Training to be arranged because it clearly was not going to happen within a week of the AGM no so but what I can’t remember is whether we put a Time window on when that training should be arranged within Sarah have yeah item four of the council’s training and development

Policy uh bullet I don’t know what number um from May 23 council is sitting on the planning committee must undertake relevant training within three months of joining the committee okay right so that’s the proposal I’m just saying I didn’t know I’d have to do training beforehand but I

Thought I’d join as you in quite a lot I thought I could help out a bit the reason you have to do it is because yeah it’s all about understanding the process yeah okay I think we’ it isn’t it isn’t just your opinion I think I think we’ve

Got that so we’ve had a proposal proposed we’ve had a a seconder I believe was have we got a seconder we haven’t but I am second in uh and um I I would just say leave it up to the staff as to whether the training is on you

Know the of the training um but uh I second okay thank you and a vote please question canel patience situation again could this training be up for anybody who’s not on the plan committee yes and the last lot of best po planning training which I think members who did

Attend found very useful was open to all counselors to attend and we extended it to neighboring parishes as well yeah okay thank you I’ve already done training on suff at County Council District Council chair the time C was no different okay than you thank you could

I just ask chair and Sarah in advance of the formal training being arranged could when I joined planning and I knew nothing about planning before I join uh Sarah gave me some very useful briefing notes about the material plan considerations not could they just be passed to at least pending the

Arrangement of formal training I wish you can see my laptops that’s what I’m doing exactly at this moment yes thank you scarily efficient scarily efficient right can we right so we vote did we have just voted we we have voted so that was agreed yes thank

You to receive a note the draft minutes of the planning committee meeting on the 14th of December have we got those or no it didn’t happen it didn’t happen I’ve put a question mark so that was in cor it wasn’t it yep my recollection was correct okay 169 climate and ecological emergency

169.99 point2 to consider any recommendations from the climate and ecological emergency committee regarding the following one 69.2 a appointment of a town council rep to the plastic free community Steering group um councelor pagee because it’s very much what it says on the tin really um one of one of

The members of our committee has brought this forward and would like to be that representative uh of a group that are going to look to uh free our town of plastic and that’s the objective I think as much as they can okay thank you you

So the name of that the name of that person we agreed at the meeting would go would would go to the um the name of the person would go forward to the the office wouldn’t they to that’s correct yes if that’s all right if if full

Council approved that y so can I just say it’s Deborah it’s counselor Deborah Ray there no need for us to be secretive okay Deborah wanted it to vote yeah okay so are you proposing that Council cage I am thank you and you and the vote please okay thank you that’s

Unanimous 169 point2 B submitting response to e suff at council’s refuge and dog waste bin policy consultation again councilor P do you want to mention what we well I will but I’m sure Wendy would like to speak as well it’s it’s a consultation so I I would invite all

Members of the council to have a look at that um basically that’s what we’re going to do before the next meeting yeah okay thank you Council you on that okay so we’re going to do that and there was we were given a deadline weren’t we so

And it fits in with our the schedule of your the climate and ecological emergency committee so that’s okay right yeah we haven’t got a vote on that have we no no 1692c feedback from a review of the bulky waste collection service including to consider the budget councelor books um yes if

Everybody’s read the paper that Sarah I think provided that kind of outlines exactly where we are climate emergency yesterday did agree that we would uh that the short the 3,000 could come from the climate emergency budget because of the extreme popularity of it in the uh

At the beginning and also in the paper it also lays down some of the ways that we’re going to kind of try and keep some control over you know making sure we don’t go with a budget okay thank you councilor P there was also sorry there was also um a

Suggestion during the meeting that um other members of climate emergency gram for example is very keen that next time we meet the contractors that they be invited to join that meeting y okay thank you councelor pe yeah well Wendy and I also met the contractor with Sarah um earlier this

Month and that was um very Illuminating me and I was pleasantly surprised um at at just how much um the new word I learned up cycling is going on um so basically it’s not all going it’s not all basically going to disposal um so uh I think the the key

Issue was uh in relation to the month one overspend what was actually there was a lot of demand and I think there is some quite sustained and unofficial social describing going on uh that that became fairly clear um but I think the um In fairness to the contractor as well

They were they were aware that there was a trial budget but they didn’t know what the trial budget was the reason for that was a very good reason um was simply when the procurement took place you didn’t want to tell them what the trial budget was in case they came in a pound

Under um you know you needed it to be a competitive tender um and and that was why um so I think they they they acknowledged that they felt that the the month one uptake was was very much A lot of it was novity Valu but they have they

Have confirmed that they can keep within the budget and will do so uh and furthermore if the to ensure and so that basically climate and emergency by absorbing the month one over spend means that if the contractor keeps within the budget which they have said they will do

For the 111 months then we we have the four years trial that this full Council had approved um and uh and what we have said is that if someone in like essentially one of although it’s free to access for all residents not not businesses uh residents um if someone in

One of the the target groups the people that we particularly are looking to benefit from this were to come in and request a collection after the um essentially the the quota for that week has been spent the contractor has committed that they will go to the top

Of the rout for the following week okay thank you councilor Brooks just yeah I forgot this bit um I always forget it I think I forget it deliberately uh gram brought it up quite rightly so that um we very much want to get the data from

East suffk about fly tipping so that we can see if it’s had you know in a few months we have a look and see well has it had any impact at all so that was another thought for the next meeting we can get that um data from his suff so

It’s ongoing isn’t it yeah thank you 69.2 D appointment of a town council rep to the S enhanced passenger interest group again counselor page yeah that’s again somebody from our our committee we’d like suppose that somebody attends that uh that interest group yes and I we’re not absolutely sure whether he’s

Accepted yet but we have a member called John sillet who’s on our committee who would who has a real interest in in in in transport issues right so that will go Christian want to speak yeah I’m sorry sorry it C Council new it was just a question really had the climate um

Committee approach stuff at County council do they know that they’re definitely going to put them onto that I think I would have to speak to Taylor about that but I think we have I think we have yes the group has said it would welcome a representative in yeah I’m

Sure that’s what they said yeah they did yeah thank you Laura councilor peerce then um Council of patience so if Paul is proposing that i’ would like to Second John’s nomination subject to our staff approaching John to confirm that he’s willing to accept yeah okay thank

You can I have a second please oh that’s sorry that is a second second did you want to speak councelor patients yeah got a question so trying to guide it before it happens um where are these meetings held we what with this represent on the suff enhanced pasture interest group

Where are they held good question I think Taylor was going to find well could I follow that on so we don’t have to if these meetings are out of town M I wouldn’t accept or what they say that Mr John will be out of pocket on this so could if

There’s any expenses on these meetings could he be reimbursed for any expenses please I think he would be would he yeah he would be as a matter of course because he’s on a committee although he’s not a counselor he is a member of the climate emergency committee yeah so

He can claim for that yeah councilor Brooks yeah I think during this meeting um when something else is going on on Keith if I check the minutes of uh the last meeting because I’ve got the minutes somewhere on my laptop um about the meeting which will say if it was um

In person or hybrid or a zoom meeting I can’t remember where they I can’t actually remember off the top ah head where they meet looking at the minutes it looks like it’s a pretty good meeting we really want to be in on yeah Okay so we’ve we’ve had okay is that right yeah

Thank you so we’ve had a proposal to uh put forward John S Paul proposed I second and seconded by C sorry Paul Put It Forward Council PE seconded were you going to say something okay and if we and we can vote on this one please okay thank you that’s

Everybody 170 Personnel 17.1 to receive and note the draft minutes of the Personnel committee meeting on December on the 7th of December 2023 which will go to the next meeting which is on the 4th of January 17.2 to consider the following recommendations from the Personnel committee 17 0.2a to

Approve the recruitment of a workshop based operative from April 2024 and to consider the budget job spec and the delegation to progress councelor Pier chair could I just ask in relation to 17.2 a 17.2 b and 17.4 um but whilst we’ve had some indicative information from James about what this

Would potentially do to the preset that was literally in the last budget and Loan meting so um in terms of if if anybody like is approaching this item well I don’t really know because what’s it going to cost and what’s it going to have to the precept could I suggest that

We consider these items on the basis that uh of in principle uh and that when we we present the budget and prese unless anybody for other reasons just wants to vote it down that’s separate but if somebody is basically saying well the way I vote is

Going to depend on what it costs and whether we can afford it um but basically um we prepare two versions of the budget and precept doc one on the basis that we recruit and one on the basis we don’t and that they go to the uh an extraordinary meeting in January

Because I think the the budget and preset recommendations are going to have to be considered an extraordinary meeting before January 4 Council because most people are going to be come to this cold and normally we would have budget recommendations pretty much wrapped up

By now um and I think we are going to be hard at it for probably the first 10 days in January yeah as M so that that would be my suggestion that basically whatever is proposed and decided tonight unless somebody is basically I don’t really care about the cost I don’t

Support it that’s a separate issue but if that is a thing that that basically we consider on that basis that we uh that we present two budget proposals one on the basis of Recruitment and one on the basis of no recruitment okay can I also just mention obviously 17.3 is confidential can I

Just proposal yeah yeah I was just going to say the other two items in between those three are confidential anyway so um right so if we’re considering those the suggestion that councelor Pier has just made if we go with the first one to say that we

Do put it forward to um budget alone and we we do put it to um full counil it might be extraordinary one to consider yeah because my concern is PE people are going to say well I don’t know whether to vote for or not because I don’t know

What it’s going to cost exactly um and we’re not going to have a regular full council meeting before January full Council where we have to agree the budget and preset recommend ations so I think we are we are going set which will come under the item when we set the date

For the next meeting but I think personally speaking I do not know how we can avoid an extraordinary full council meeting to consider the budget in January so what I’m proposing is that we prepare two versions of the budget recommendations one on the basis of appointment and one on the basis of not

Appointment um so that staff are clear what the implications are and if we appoint what has to give to make way for that short of actually having an inflated precept okay I’ll come back to that I’ve got cancer patiency which is speaking waiting patiently for this um 17.4 could we have a

Clarification on the wording recruitment of gardeners I Belong To The Well of supporter of the Royal horiculture Society I’ve done a lot of gardener myself a gardener is a time served person who normally serves an apprenticeship if they take it on later in life they go to university is that

What we’re looking for or are we looking for a ground worker if we’re looking for a ground worker I don’t have a problem but if you start advertising for gardeners and gardeners make application they would expect the gardener rate for the job thank you thank you cancer

Patience this was discussed in depth at uh in a confidential session I remember in Personnel um yes right well can Brooks was next getting very confused Andy made a a propos made a proposal about deferring A and B until so we look at the budget for 25 or

25 in terms of whether we’re going to do it or not right this is why I’m really confused right we’ve got two we’ve got 170 2A and 2B that we still haven’t that and now we’re jumping off to the gardeners can I clarify what I did so

Right so I am now getting really confused as what it is we’re actually looking at I don’t know why it still says to consider the recruitment of gardeners because the last meeting that I was at that I believe was either Aid or Parks we said no to gardeners and we

Already ground so why still appearing has to consider the recruit I don’t know the order chair please can yes yes can I just wait a minute please the reason the reason these things are on here is because they came from Personnel yeah right that’s the first correct issue it

Might have been discussed in other places but basically it came from Personnel we’ve got three items on here joined together to whether we look at uh look at it in depth as a budget item to in other words for people to consider it or whether they want to point blank say

No we don’t want to consider it so back to council peers can you just this was your proposal because I specifically mentioned three items okay 17.2 A 17.2 B and 17.4 is that some people unless they are actually against them for other reasons might say the way I vote will depend on

Cost and we haven’t got specific costings in each case on how they would affect the budget so what I’m saying is can we consider them tonight in principle on the basis that we will then firm up the costings in January and we will present one budget recommendation

On the basis of Recruitment and one budget recommendation on the basis of no recruitment so people can understand what difference it would make in terms of gardeners uh I’m willing for the staff to correct me on this but I am pretty sure that this came forward with

No recommendation on the basis that we have two Alternatives we and we either if we recruit at all that it might be gardeners in which case gardeners means gardeners or it’s grounds people who do some gardening um but the proposal came forward for full Council to make that

Decision it did not come forward I am fairly convinced with any kind of recommendation 100% correct thank you right so you’ve made a proposal I need a second please if you’re going to vote on this Council of Brooks did you want to speak about this yes I’m not happy with

The wording then because um you’re saying you’re asking us to vote on something and then you’re saying well you can vote against it if you don’t agree with the costs but what we’re actually doing is approving the recruitment of wor based operative approving the recruitment assess Asset Management officer without knowing the

Cost so shouldn’t the wording be slightly different so that it is so that we actually know that we’re not actually you’re approving that what we are doing is look is look is exploring the costs before because how can you approve something and then you say yes I really

Want this then you say oh no I’ve changed my mind it’s too expensive to me it’s it doesn’t make sense right counc books just to stop you for a minute because we need standing orders it’s half past eight um can I have so can I have a proposal proposal we suspend

Standing orders for a maximum of half an hour but we do our upmost coming inside that okay and I’ll second that on a vote please thank you so can I finish and I’m also not GNA vote to consider the recruitment of gardeners because I don’t think we should be recruiting gardeners

So it’s all been it’s all it’s the wording I object to I’m not I’m not saying I’m against the recruitment of an asset manager I’m not saying I’m against the work-based operative I’m certainly not probably not going to vote for the regardless if they’re all going to be

All together in one I didn’t say that it’s problematic no I didn’t say consider them on block I said in each case can we consider them on the b in princi on the basis of if if the main determinant issue for a counselor is

Going to be how much is it going to cost us and what effect is it going have on the precept then can we consider it in principle on the basis of like yes in principle we support this but not if it blows the precept not if Public Services

Have to give way to it and then therefore in that case it would go forward to the extraordinary meeting in January where there would be one paper to say if we do this this would be what it cost if we don’t do this it will be what it cost and the difference between

It would be the cost of recruitment but if somebody says can you add can you add in principle to approve in principle the recruitment I did say in principle in my proposal you said it so is that going to be what you’re proposing yes that’s that was in his proposal councel well I’m

Asking that we consider it so I’m not actually proposing appointment of any of them yet I’m just saying can we consider it tonight in principle on that basis second and a vote please thank you um that wasn’t everyone in right sorry sorry can we just do it clearly again because it looked

Unanimous all right okay no so one one not voting Council Park I don’t if he’s against or abstaining are you abstain abstaining thank you right so you’ve got the numbers there have you yes you have okay right so the other two items on there so we’ve covered all three yeah

And the other two items on there um are both confidential for a confidential session councel uh counselor PE right so if we now come to 170. 2A yes on that in principal basis I would propose that in principle subject to cost we do recruit a work a workbase uh

A workshop based operative from April 24 this is a recommendation that came from staff to budget and loan for the reasons that they stated but that we ask our staff so that will need input from the facility staff to um come up with a a budget uh for this role I think we

Basically said it would be on the same level as our grand maintenance staff um uh to go so that it can be factored by budget and Loan into the budget document in early January to go to that extraordinary meeting but that in principle we should support the

Recruitment of this person because um to basically help with the setup at unit two each morning so that um it basically means that the ground maintenance staff can can essentially go out uh and do their rols from day one into instead of having to spend like the chunk of the

First hour doing setup uh but this person would also double as as uh additional ground maintenance support for the existing ground maintenance staff okay so that’s your proposal for 170. 2A can I have a seconder yes thank you Council Brooks and a vote please thank you unanimous that’s

Unanimous thank you right now is it 17.2 B councelor P yeah um right asset management office officer um two things here I don’t think we’re going to realistically if we’re not going to make a decision until second half of January we’re not going to complete the procurement to have one imposed for

April uh I would suggest that we consider this as an appointment from the halfway mark in October and cost for it accordingly but I do feel very strongly that we need one um we we have had twice in our history we we had a facilities and contracts manager and we had

Um an assets management officer uh councelor piss can I just interrupt there and say that if we go into this in any more detail I’ll have to go in a confidential yeah I’m not talking names okay I would just like to talk post okay yeah that’s not confidential the post

Okay no it’s not confidential okay the the post is not a confidential item if I mention names of previous incumbant that would be y uh it’s not a confidential matter to discuss whether we need an asset management officer or not um and um so basically our existing staff any any one of

Them cannot juggle their existing roles and give what is required to assets management aspects of the role may be able to be taken up by other staff but we badly need someone and I think that shows in every full council meeting every Aid meeting we badly need some one

Who can take daytoday operational decisions on our assets not strategic decisions that will remain The Preserve of the clerk but daytoday management decisions around assets and prioritization um because at the moment we have day-to-day operational decisions being taken by someone very senior and then we have facility stuff and we

Really need someone sat between the two with operational man agement responsibility and too much is log jamming it’s no one’s fault it is a full-time professional role it is not a role that just gets piggybacked onto something else and that is where we have fallen down we we had a proposal last

Year that when we took the decision to bring the grand maintenance inhouse part of the Staffing setup needed to be an asset management officer and that we were going to move to a three-tier organizational structure so I am really saying that we need to endorse the decision that this

For Council take last year um and recruit that role but I don’t I think with the best will in the world if we if we if we wait until this to go until the January budget’s approved uh and then we don’t start the procurement until basically February or shortly before

We’re not going to have someone impos for April so I think realistically let’s give oursel the time to look at the spec work up the spec as well as the budget and let’s aim and budget to have the post commence from October 2024 so halfway through the 2425

Financial Year and that would be my proposal again in principle subject to us being able to demonstrate affordability within the budget and preset recommendations okay thank you Council of patience you’ve been waiting there thank you I fully support what council PE have said I’m mindful of the

Time and I would like to Second his proposal we definitely need an asset manager it’s is a professional position every councel I know I has got senior councilors like ours have got somebody in that position thank you thank you councelor books um I’m not against what

‘s proposed and Keith is seconding and I don’t want to discuss it this evening but I also don’t necessarily I want to know actually what this person is going to do if they because we did have one and that didn’t work out um to actually

Yes there’s we our staff have a heck of a lot of work on them at the moment with our assets we want to make sure we’ve got the right job spec so rather than it’s not a you know we want someone who’s actually going to be able to do

Whatever it is what is it we’ve going to require them to do this this needs a lot of thinking so I think October sounds sensible give ourselves some time make sure that we’ve got the right kind of person to do this job Okay so we’ve had

A propos we’ got a second all all I would say there is that we had a job respect for the previous one that needs to be our starting point and we refine it from there okay thank you right if we have a vote on that yeah I think that’s unanimous thank you right

17. for uh Council piss do you want to speak to this um I I think the I think the jury’s out on this one as to whether we need gardeners or whether we need grand mainten staff who do a bit of garden I think the point that has been

Made uh Neil’s not here tonight he’s made it one of our friends group made it is that Grounds Maintenance staff and gardeners are not one and the same thing um if we we as a council I think need to decide our policy on what we want in our

Parks uh in terms of input into design input into planting do we want ha cultural expertise at a staffing level on this Council I think this Council prably in January I think I think it needs to go to parks and I think we need someone like

Johnny to come and speak from the staff point of view but we also need counselors who have strong views on this for or against I don’t care because we need a policy decision from this Council the policy decision will then inform the recruitment decision um just say it’s been to Parks

Counil Parks disgusted yeah and felt that gardeners were not actually probably what we wanted due to the kind of restrictions that Keith’s talked about um so sending it back to Parks okay so I thought it had been through FG certainly um no but but there was no

Recommendation not to do it ke Keith mentioned the green book and we asked our staff if they could find more information out about the green book um I don’t think we had a firm recommendation one way or the other Sarah can no I the day after the Personnel committee I downloaded a copy

Of the green book as cited by cancer patients I emailed it to all person members to say I couldn’t find within it any specific details about employment of gardeners and yes there was not any recommendation from Personnel regarding gardeners it was put straight to full Council to to debate thank

You Council peace then I I would suggest um early sorry Keith did uh I would suggest early in January um that any interested counselor not not a specific committee sub career any interested counselor has a strong view on this that we we have a a a zoom call to

Which relevant staff members and I would suggest that Johnny is one of them are invited to discuss the pros and cons of this um and where where they think we would benefit from just having grandm and staff doing a bit of gardening um and where they think uh we need

Gardeners and whether it would be regarded as seasonal or year round um but we need a policy decision I feel okay thank you coun sp yeah I mean we definitely need somebody that does gardening whether it be um grounds people with more knowledge of plants Etc

If we don’t make sure we have somebody that knows more about plants than we’ve got at the moment then the gardens will suffer um and we will suffer through comments made by the general public we have we have areas that just get cut down because that’s what they think

Should be done and we get areas that do get manicured correctly so we need to make sure that we know what we want and then we can decide whether we go for a a floating Gardener might be one idea uh to go around all our assets or whether

We train our grounds people to actually learn a little bit more about plants okay thank you so back to your we need a second of your proposal don’t we Council P had you already seconded that Council patient Council books can you we need to wrap this up I’m aware of the

Time here no we’re not I think we’re kind of like we’re not voting on we’re going to have gardeners are we no no we’re not Zo okay that’s fine so does it I mean Bob’s absolutely right what we need to be thinking about is Johnny and some of our

Other ground maintenance staff talk to them like where are their short where they where they feel their skill shortages are how can we help them many courses we can send them on blah blah blah we have that kind of conversation that’s what we need so that we can scill

People up so it’s it’s all okay so councelor P proposed councelor patience is seconded sorry councelor patience hard to see behind that and a vote please to do that okay I think that’s yeah unanimous thank you right item 171 is all Inc confidential um down to 171

Point7 172 outside bodies um 1 72.1 to appoint a substitute rep to the east suffer Community safety partnership councilor piss can I ask a question chair sir do any of these organizations meet in January or could this be the third to January for Council to try and

Save the time that we do have left tonight I don’t know if we’re aware of it I’m I guess the opment association probably meets monthly does it I’m don’t not sure about P I don’t know sorry do me probably might well then we’ve got we won’t have

A proper meeting I don’t think in January just a Christmas dinner something first first slight meets next in February right more next full Council January the 23rd is next full Council but if we have an extraordinary meeting I guess the substitute ones could definitely be left

Maybe deal with the middle too so you continue to have representation but leave the substitute what too if if they’re not meeting I would just propose that we leave all of them to January 4 Council because otherwise we’re going to have another suspension of standing

Orders at 9 o’ yeah okay council could I ask for a uh another item to be placed on there it’s outside bodies reports to full Council please because we’re not getting them okay thank you well that will go to item 174 all I can say is I I I do a first light

One one in particular okay no that’s all right thank you okay so 172 we move that to January January uh full council do I have to get a vote on that or not no I’m only talking about 172.16.0.0 on outside bodies no uh I I think Sor 172.5 I know the consultation deadline

Is January I just don’t know what date uh so um could I just suggest that we delegate that to our staff okay I oh okay to respond to the consultation I mean we already have we already have Stu we already have delegations to respond to planning consultations so unless

Anybody says unless anybody says no we don’t want a library um really we want someone who’s going to do a positive support about what kind of Library we want okay so would you be sending an email around for our input as counselors I was only prepared to take the delegation of

Counselors going to feed in their comments I have absolutely but what I’m saying is we don’t want to debate about a library do we in a full council meeting that’s already no gone past two hours no and 172.600 defer it because the report back won’t happen till mid January so that

Can be deferred as well to the next meeting Hospital yeah yeah I’ve I’ve got some yes right once once you haven’t got a vote on that delegation please chair we need a second oh sorry a vote okay apologies propos was it counc second Council breaks spit and a vote on that

For it to go to the office and then for us all to be informed via email to feedback yeah okay thank you sorry apologies I was trying to speed up 173 date of next meeting is 23rd of January 2024 at 6:30 and obviously there will be as Council Pierce has mentioned probably

An extraordinary meeting somewhere before then okay 174 items for the next agenda and close and councel patien did you want to have on um PE uh reps reports from from people who are on outside bodies yes oh councilors that not been reported back to this committee

No okay because that is part of the deal when you’re a rep isn’t it yeah and also to the Town Council rather than to a update on the council’s website which go Friday because you don’t have a re you don’t have any chance to Resource that and debate it because it’s not on

This agenda right okay question thank you Baker yeah um I asked previously if um so I uh an outside body that I’m a rep on they send minutes of their meeting so I asked if that could be shared with counselors um I was told that that doesn’t happen but then I saw somebody

Else had yeah you did so can we just get clarification on that please that’s not that’s not a decision for us it’s a decision for that organization yeah because so what would be the normal procedure would be for the representative to fill in the standard format that we have that allows them to

Provide a report to council minutes from outside bodies are not always permissible to be shared by the to the whole Council it’s down to each individual organization that the councelor is represented on yeah so if the organization says that I can share those minutes I can share those minutes

Okay yeah yeah but you might also want to offer a summary yeah yeah and then okay thank you right 175 to resolve the under the public bod’s admission to meetings act 1960 the public be excluded from the meeting on the grounds that publicity would be prejudicial to public interest

By reason of the confidential nature of the business to be transacted namely any legal and employment issues relating to the matters on this agenda including the following that we have looked at this evening can I have a proposer councelor oh sorry councilor B propos second to counselor pece and a vote

Please and if you can just wait for the owl to be uh turned off and thank you to if you’ve been watching this uh low staff time Council full council meeting