Anna Braune, German Sustainable Building Council on Carbon Footprint Policies in the Built Environment
You introduced yourself and you you asked some questions and we know um about the um dgnb but um to understand more the approach of um the council it’s a Europe’s largest um Network Sustainable Building established um um Network for a Sustainable Building established in 2007 I think um and it’s a nonprofit
Organization I think that’s good to know um and its participatory Association um and you created the globally recognized um certificate um and it’s a holistic and life cycle oriented approach but how does it work yeah so um maybe a little bit to the history so dgnb really was founded
In Germany in 2007 a little bit as a response to um uh I would say uh an initi or different initiatives uh that wanted to label Sustainable Building practices in Germany that was not really in line with what uh most people thought that would be sustainable let’s call it
Like this so and then we said uh we want to um you know do it on our own and not to say for example to use method that comes from a different country um and what we did at that time is that we had three principles that are still our I
Would say USP and that made us quite uh strong in our positioning by saying we will have a certification scheme in Germany which is an instrument to teach people different thinking and to an instrument to get money into the right direction actually that’s what it’s all
About I mean we give credits we give a label uh what it’s about it’s about bringing people project teams together to think of new Solutions and to get the money uh getting into the right um directions that’s that’s what certification is about and we said that
We want to have this life cycle approach and then everybody was like why life cycle what does it mean and then uh we explained well it means we are not only looking at what is happening here what is happening on site so we want to be make sure that um emissions but also
Social aspects and the money um is regarded over time and overplace so we want to have a global impact and this is what life all this life cycle assessment even if it is life cycle cost or life cycle um environmental life cycle assessment but also social considerations as about secondly we said
Uh we want to make sure that um the um uh we will see improvements for the environment for sure um I’m an environmental engineer so that’s my uh my background but um we want to see improvements in so in the social aspects where we see deficits and at the same
Time we want to change um economic the way economy works and this means um looking at cost on a longer perspective looking at risks which are not yet inside and which are not yet valuated so this means for example you have to have a an assessment of um the climate risk
Um that comes to your site um and uh this means for example that you have to uh consider follow-up cost and not invest into the cheap solutions only um and then the third pillar is that we said actually we we are um we want to have a an openness of the methods
And an open an openness of the solutions being applied to get to the targets and this is the third pillar which is like the performance orientation um where we said we will set limit values and um maybe Target values it’s more you know positive speaking like yeah this is the
Target value um but the way you get there is open so we say you get a lot of credits when your carbon footprint is is below 5 kilog we’re not telling people to use recycled materials to use renewable materials when’re not telling them to um
To build less we say five is the it’s is the Target and this is totally I mean these three approaches um um sustainability life cycle and performance orientation was also diff different from other approaches of certifications and of um setting regulations at that time um and it was
In line with European developments um of Standards the Ian standards for sustainability and this made us a little bit the rookies and the the a little bit scientific but at the end um everybody’s following so briam introduced LCA lead and produced LCA everybody now does the same and um I think um
Your it it was your idea no no it was it was uh we were very strict all together behind this idea okay and uh a little bit scientific that what that’s what I wanted to ask um as the head of research project and uh with um which um research institutes do you
Work together how do you know what’s the right way to put the money yeah so this is a very good uh question um actually my department is called research and development uh we’re doing less research and more development because we think um for the most problematic
Areas uh we need more uh it’s not so much on researching you know what is the exact number the exact way of doing it you know um but it’s more about translating um uh in to easy language sometimes uh telling different not easy normal language I would say with all
Your shortcuts um I mean it’s unbelievable you you probably don’t know what I’m talking about but it’s h in my head D and G yeah yeah it’s it’s all the abbreviations but this is actually more that’s why I have very often the feeling my department is not we are looking at
Research results but we place them on the market directly translate into what does it mean and even if we are correcting so every three to five years we are um changing um we have new um uh new versions where we say more ambitious a little bit different methods and we’re
Adapting things now we come up with a very new um um a certification which will be very difficult to achieve but uh it’s our 2030 certificate where we say now we’re telling ourself where we want to be at in 2030 Which is far enough away but close close enough um and so
What this project is all about is that we really say now we have six years we want to get there we want the market to be there we want all I mean let’s let’s call it a wish but uh we want to uh it it will be very
Um without compromises by saying this is what we want to achieve in the next six years uh like a a build um a vision that can be built okay but how does um this certificate especially the new one that’s really hard to achieve how does it pay off for
The Constructor for the industry yeah so actually this is always being asked so because you have to invest time I I’m I mean most of the uh the changes uh compared to normal building is that uh people that that the building owner or the the the investor should give more
Time to the clever people working on the projects that’s what most of uh of of the certificate is about like saying have you please take a chance recalculate do you get maybe you get to a lower value but this time in Normal building practi is is not given you have
Like one shot you have to do it you have like you know a 100 other projects and then you know people don’t get the time to optimize and our scheme is uh to optimize and what uh the planning so like a sustainable planning for the future so what you get out actually is
If if you really want an optimized uh instrument an optimized uh uh project um I mean this does not pay off uh but at the end uh you have on the one hand side lower risk which is one of the main reasons uh uh a better documentation so
Lower risk in you know you don’t have H for example um hazardous substances in your building what is the most uh most money consuming thing in the in the existing building stock it’s hazardous substances that we have to get rid of to today because in
The 80s and ’90s we did so much still wrong although knowing it so people are totally aware of if I order a certified building I’m getting this risk off um secondly I have somebody who looks at climate changes on that side so what how is climate change might it adapt my
Building um it’s also um risk of um um um um if you have more flexible areas you have lower uh void rates so you have higher payoffs of the building so these risks um um are usually coming with such uh sustainable buildings and on the other hand side you have of course uh
That’s our promise lower costs so if you invest into more Energy Efficiency and renewable energy you have of course lower followup costs but you also have um lower followup cost uh when it comes to water and and other media and and also on um maintenance cost so it’s it’s
I would say t typic and additionally of course all the environmental aspects of you know um doing good for for biodiversity and attracting people water consumption probably water consumption but also to attract talents um so today I think it’s also part of um of of um especially the commercial sector that if
You build you know you want to attract people to work for you you cannot come with uh whatever building or whatever you know this is your your desk I don’t care but you have to um also show that you’re not just tell you know that you’re just not saying I’m sustainable
Company but um the building is like the the the business card okay and um these certificates are I mean they are not mandatory but is there any thought of um yeah I don’t know um to to make it mandatory on a federal level in Germany or
Even yeah so um the trend actually is since we are working with the building Ministry since it’s our foundation uh the trend is that it is still a voluntary scheme it is um very aligned to the federal voluntary scheme for federal buildings so it’s very similar it’s minor differences but anyways it’s it’s
From my perspective it’s all the same for federal buildings it is um sort of mandatory um but uh as an organiz today we have like 10,000 um certified objects 10,000 uh um experts that we trained as well um but um our goal is of course to
Make it um mandatory I mean that that’s if it’s mandatory and then we can say I’m doing something else I have a 100 ideas that I could do better in my life than saving the world but um please do please do yeah no but what I mean is um
People sometimes come and say you know but if that’s mandatory then you know your organization what are you doing then and I’m like then it’s the goal it’s it’s great then everybody’s just doing it and I’m super fan of um because the voluntary you know changing the market by voluntary initiatives is very
Slow um and and very timec consuming and if everything is always questioned like you know the survival on Earth um and and put onto the market I don’t think that’s the right um um yeah um um I would say position of uh of of political leaders okay and um two short questions
Um you just mentioned it education is a very important important for you and your Association um so um you educate uh who who do you educate yeah so um education is uh very important so to understand we are an organization totally public to totally private funded
So onethird of our income is member fees onethird is certification fees and one third is um our Academy like trainings that are be pay um this is very important that it’s not just one thing and then you’re doing whatever your member says or you’re putting low certification limit values
To you know to secure the income to the to the association but um the qualification is super important one of the I would say um important sentence our former um board uh president said was we have to get um uh the sustain ability from the heads into
The hands but of course it has to be in the heads first so people have to be uh trained in new ways of um tackling these challenges and uh once they are trained um we also see that we have a higher political um um uh goal for such uh such
Initiatives so we are proposing for example LC asence whatever to to be in part of the German energy law um but they always said you know there’s not enough people trained and then we said okay now we have like thousands people trained and like okay now we can think
About putting a list on list on the energy agency whatever and then and then you know things happen but um so the training is uh very important in the past we trained a lot on the building sector like Architects engineers and so on and now we train a
Lot of people on the um um investor and management s so um Banks and um um real estate um companies uh who want to improve their uh their portfolios and this is actually now nearly half half so we have both demand and um um the demand side and the Ang side Supply
Supply Supply sorry so it’s not just the supply side pushing for oh we could do it but now it’s also the demand side uh that is being trained in um reading and setting up uh climate action um um road maps for specific buildings so and um the last question
Because we should have a longer coffee break and then I think we can talk to you um in person because a little bit time you have a little bit time left um so um you did a remark before here um about um renovating so U um yeah rethink
Demolishing and um yeah um yeah don’t um I forgot the name but um so architect for future for example it’s a very interesting group of young Architects and um building experts they try to yeah to uh change the mindset and uh rethink demolishing and um reuse instead of um
Rebuild so um what do you think about that and it’s this somehow a subject um a subject yeah totally so um actually uh maybe the it is it was a response to what the market did in the past so since we’re uh we have European Partners in in
Denmark in in Denmark and Switzerland Austria uh Spain Croatia um and uh that’s it’s it’s very similar that when people think about sustainable buildings usually people start with a new construction because then it’s like oh I do something good I do something new I
Want to make it very good um so we did a lot of um work we trained a lot of people we certified most of the certificates go into uh were handed over to new construction because there was such a big pressure so but on the other
Hand side it is a response to if I build new then it really has to be sustainable um now um we um see more and more um um certificates as well for the optimization of buildings um so when it’s really about it’s not about investing into renovation but as we have
Seen in Germany in the last winter we saved 25% of our energy so it’s possible it’s possible change is possible um so and this is where we now see a lot of um um Investments and also capacities uh going into the optimization of buildings and the next step of course is to say
Now I want to renovate longer lifetimes and so on um and for this the initiatives like stop uh demolishing for example in Germany we you are allowed to demolish without um a permit cost yeah and it doesn’t cost anything you don’t need a permit you just say I’m demort
Dising it and you tell it to the to the um authorities you’re not asking for you just tell it and of course this is totally nonsense yes totally nonsense and therefore it’s very important to have such groups like Architects for future saying demolishment moratorium so stop demolishing now because this is
Totally crazy yeah yeah and um what comes next is uh like a project like circular house or um resource pass um so to to think of uh houses um or buildings in in the city as mining so as archives um so this is the the thoughts that next
Yeah and actually this is not a thought from us but um I’m although I’m I’m a total environmentalist um but I’m also a fan of uh the uh the European commission and uh the president uh who has a clear idea of how to change um European the
The um actually how we live and how we have the economies in Europe and this is so simple as it said we want to be the first climate neutral uh um uh continent I mean the target is there we just had to get there we want to be the circular
Um uh circular continent we can learn from from from the Dutch experiences uh we want to be resilient and having such a great social and social at the same time of course social but but having such um easy translatable targets from the very top and this goes since um OA
Ferine um has she has changed a lot uh since then um a lot of very good initiatives came from the commission and all countries we’re following up and we’re running behind H and and this is very important and for example the we developed um resource passport which is
Like the energy passport just for resources it’s on one page but we have very small writing it’s um but anyways but these initiatives could say of course yeah DJ andb invented but it’s not of course our invention but it’s a reaction to U an overarching idea which is also
Translated for example in the levels framework and in the EU taxonomy by saying these are the main topics that we have to take care of it’s six or seven if you combine it biodiversity should be in levels and for example but anyways it’s like very simple messages and now it’s up to
Us all together to identify the methods on the one hand side but uh to immediately invest into the good Solutions so that we get as fast as possible to these targets and the targets from my perspective are clear totally circular Net Zero um and at the same time leaving no one behind