Interior Decorator Max Rollitt on the Objects That Make a Home

Max Rollitt is a highly respected interior decorator and antiques dealer. Extraordinary pieces pass through his hands every day, yet most of the objects he chooses to live with at home have little monetary value. Instead, they are tokens of respect and love.

The conversation begins with Max’s childhood in Winchester, where he struggled at school because he processed information in images – something we’d now recognise as dyslexia. It’s this visual approach that is the foundation for a ‘Max Rollitt’ interior: decorating a home the way an artist composes a painting.

Nowhere is that sensibility clearer than in his family farmhouse in the South Downs. Every piece of furniture and object has a story to tell: artworks from his sons, photographs of his wife, and handmade gifts from his mentors. During our home tour, some of these objects even moved Max to tears.

We also talk about how to create a nurturing environment for creative children, the grounding effect of rural life and finding personal fulfilment through spirituality.

This episode is about how the objects we surround ourselves with are more than aesthetic items – they are containers for people and experiences.

This episode was recorded in person at Max’s farmhouse in the South Downs.

– Matt

An extended version of the tour is available to our Patreon community.
Patreon: http://patreon.com/HomingWithMatt

Timestamps:
00:00:00 Introduction & Sense of Home
00:00:53 Setting the Scene
00:01:38 Childhood in Winchester
00:02:11 Mother’s Fashion & Antiques Career
00:03:37 Growing Up Surrounded by Antiques
00:06:02 Home Comforts & Family Life
00:06:38 Emotional Meaning of Home
00:07:41 Father’s Background & Family Dynamics
00:08:51 Parental Support & Academic Struggles
00:09:56 Dropping Out & Early Adulthood
00:10:19 Discovering Woodworking
00:12:46 School Experience & Dyslexia
00:14:39 Visual Thinking & Creativity
00:15:52 Only Child Reflections
00:16:37 Path to Professional Woodworking
00:20:02 Taking Over the Family Shop
00:20:51 Olympia Antiques Fair & Business Growth
00:22:48 Becoming a Decorator
00:24:05 The Max Rollett Interior Approach
00:27:21 Sourcing & Collecting Objects
00:28:48 Moving to the Farmhouse
00:30:35 Connection to Landscape & History
00:35:20 Family Life in the Farmhouse
00:37:19 Parenting Philosophy & Spirituality
00:41:07 Daily Wellbeing Practices
00:42:49 Cycling Accident & Recovery
00:45:05 Spirituality & Therapy
00:46:43 Impact of Being an Only Child
00:48:02 Objects as Emotional Anchors
00:49:06 Burning House Question
00:51:04 Objects, Stories, and Collecting
00:58:20 Collecting vs. Hoarding
01:00:12 Objects as Color & Texture
01:02:16 Placement & Intuition in Decorating
01:03:37 Meeting Jane & Relationship
01:05:27 Creative Influence of Jane
01:07:24 Raising Creative Children
01:09:04 Future Aspirations & Simpler Life
01:10:47 Closing Reflections & Gratitude

To hear more from us:

Instagram: @homingwithmatt
TikTok: @homing.with.matt
Contact: Email us at hello@mattgibberd.com

Matt Gibberd’s book, A Modern Way to Live, is available here: https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/320176/a-modern-way-to-live-by-gibberd-matt/9780241480496

Music by @simeonwalkermusic
Identity & design by @lena.winkler.creative.office
Produced by @podshoponline

If you’re sourcing from stuff that
you love, then you’re actually putting that love into a home.
It’s very embedded in the chalk, which is what we live in.
Chalk is really important to me, just the feel of it.
There’s something about it. I feel very at home within it.
I feel totally at home. I don’t want to be anywhere else.
There’s other places that bring me great, great joy.
But this is definitely home. Hi, Max. Hi. Don’t look so scared.
Um, we should probably set the scene of where we are first of all.
So, in your lovely kitchen, um, in your old farmhouse,
which we’re in the South Downs National Park here. Are we?
We are just. Yeah. Just about, um. We just got the River Itchen running,
right? Just at the bottom. Yeah. So we’re in a kind of.
Very level ground close to the river, quite close to Winchester,
which is about an hour south of London on the train. That’s right.
And I think the bulk of the podcast, I’d love to talk to you about this
house and your kind of current life, but it’s always really instructive
to go back first. Mhm. So, um,
tell me about where you grew up. So I as far as I can remember,
I’ve grown up in Winchester, so I think we moved.
I moved here when I was four. Um and went to primary school,
prep school and next school after that. All. All in Winchester.
And so was it the same house through your whole childhood? Yeah.
My parents bought it in 1959, and I think we sold it in 2009,
so. So it was 50 years. They they owned it. Wow.
It’s astonishing. That’s quite rare, isn’t it?
It is rare, but I. So my mum when when we moved there
she was freelancing as a fashion designer. Mm. She’d grown. She’d.
She’d basically been in fashion since she finally managed to
leave home at age 28. She was brought up in Leek in
Staffordshire. And her mum had a dress shop and and
milliners, and my mum was sort of left school at 13 as you did then.
And um, she went to night school at Burslem School of Art,
which was a set up in the Potteries for basically people to train to
paint the ceramics that all came out of Stoke and she went to Burslem
School of Art to do fashion, and she was really good and she
ran away at 22 to London, and her mum went down to London and
brought her back to work in the shop And eventually she ran away again,
aged 28, and at that time she managed to make a full escape.
Um, and it was it was rare for a woman to be that forthright and
independent. I think that that time,
and especially to find a place in the, in the fashion world.
And she became her thing was blouses. That’s what she became notorious for.
So I grew up with her pattern cutting and sewing and, um,
she would basically freelance for these and sell her designs.
Age seven, she decided she needed to do something more
centered in Winchester. And so she took on a shop,
and she didn’t know what she was going to do with the shop.
She just knew she was a good shopkeeper.
You mean when you were seven? When I was seven. Yeah.
And, um, She knew. She knew about fabrics and she knew
about antiques because with her father, she had gone to auctions.
And also Winchester was a great hub for the antiques market.
So she basically got the Colfax account,
which was a significant thing. It was, I think she was the first
person in Hampshire to have a Colfax and Fowler account for fabrics.
What does that mean to people that wouldn’t know?
What does that mean? Yeah. Okay. So Colfax and Fowler,
I think at that time, which was the early 70s, were the
the House of chintz, essentially. That’s what they were really
fantastic at. So she was able to sort of bring
that to the ladies of Winchester. And so consequently, I grew up
showing the ladies of Winchester which fabric could go with, which
is showing them through the books. Uh, we had vast collection of
different swatches. And also I was taken every day
through this, um, antique shop in Winchester.
This is in the holidays through Blanchard, which was an enormous,
um, antiques emporium, essentially, uh, in the center of Winchester.
And it was an institution. Anything good from the south of
England went through Blanchard. So it was a different age of
antique dealing. But essentially my mum would go
source there and the stuff would be shipped down to, you know,
200 jars down to her shop. And then she would sell it from
her shop onto somebody else and just going back to the home,
I think she was, um, she was furnishing it with the
things that she really loved. So I remember we had a gold damask
wallpaper going all the way up the staircase, which, looking back on it,
was quite bold for a terraced house, and the bathroom was, um,
similarly wallpapered. You know, why would you wallpaper
a bathroom it was and carpeted, you know, everything was carpeted.
It was a different field. But it also had a great sort of
comfort to it as well. And you needed that comfort because,
you know, a bath would only be three inches deep if you were lucky,
because the immersion heater wasn’t big enough.
And we had, um, we had a tough growing up.
No, it was a night storage heaters, I don’t know, it was pre pre central
heating. It felt like. Yeah, yeah. So we lit a fire every night.
Um, and Winchester was a much quieter place.
So what do you think of in terms of that home.
In terms of what it sort of meant to you emotionally?
If you think back to it now. It was a place of freedom. Mm.
I think my parents were always, um, they were encouraging and I
was an only child. And they there was there was a
lot of opportunity to just do what I wanted, you know?
Um, I didn’t really feel in any way tied so I could rearrange my bedroom,
or I could, you know, have a band practice in the kitchen or, you know,
whatever it was or it was all it was. And the garden was long.
It was long and deep. And there was an old air raid
shelter in the bottom of it. So it was like another quiet
space in that, you know, there was lots of room for sort of.
It was a bit just William exploration. Yeah. You know.
Yeah. That sort of thing. And neighbors who you could chat to
over the wall. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s nice. Um, what about your dad?
Uh, my dad, my dad was, uh, in the Navy until I was again.
Until I was about seven. Um, he was he was a big man like me,
but sort of broader. Um. and he was very much a gentleman
and very, very loving. I think he in some ways, he played
second fiddle to my mum because she was very much the personality.
She was the sales person. She was, um, she was she was the
front of the household really. And a strong force.
They were both from working class backgrounds and both aspirational
to be into another realm, I think. Not in a sort of clingy way,
but they just saw that the few that life was sweeter, I think,
um, in that and safer in that, in that environment.
Having grown up with parents who had been in the First World War,
living through the Second World War, it’s a very different,
different time. Yeah. And what kind of parents were they to
you? They were very, Um, empowering. I, you know, I went to, um,
Winchester College, which wasn’t great pastorally.
And I probably came out quite damaged from that.
Um, and but when I got my A-level results, I got two, two E’s in an AU,
which, for those that don’t know, is really bad. It’s not great.
Um, for somewhere that is meant to be the most academic, uh,
private school in the country, that is appalling.
But I went out and I remember my parents were at that time, they
were in twin beds for some reason. And it was a bit like Charlie
and the Chocolate Factory. It feels like looking back at it.
And anyway, I went and told them my mum’s face sort of dropped and my
father turned round and said, well done son, you’ve got two A-levels.
That’s really good. That’s amazing. Yeah, that’s really amazing.
So that’s, you know, that’s that’s the and I was a you know,
I dropped out after that. I went to university for a year.
Wanted to be a Buddhist monk, dropped out of university.
I didn’t know this. Lived. Lived with a bunch of freaks in
an old ale house in Wales. Um, I fixed cars. I got what?
Tell us about that. It was a drovers pub.
Yeah, outside New Town in Paris. And New Town is.
Is lovely, but not that pretty. And this pub, I think, cost us £5 a
month, and we could sign on from there so we could get, uh, we could
scavenge off the state and we could. We got postal signing,
which meant that we didn’t actually have to go and sign on because
we were so remotely positioned. So it basically gave me enormous
freedom to actually do what I wanted. And whilst I was there, um,
I used to go over and fix this Austin Hereford car with a mate.
Kevin Kevin may and he. He basically he was a he called
himself a barn dancer. So what he actually what his job was,
was actually taking down old barns and then rebuilding them in the Home
Counties or whatever for People’s Party barns or garages or whatever.
And from the offcuts he used to make these, um, copies of medieval
furniture that he looked at in, in the V&A and he would,
he would make copies. And I just thought this was inspiring
to see this machinery and see these things being, you know, crafted for
one thing and turned into another. And I just thought, actually,
that’s probably where, where I’m, where my home is, is probably is
actually in making, making things. So fixing cars was really
difficult and um, and and also I don’t like metal. It’s it.
You know, you, you go to tighten your tappets and the nut slips and
you rip all your fingers, you know, the top of your knuckles off and
everything rusts and goes hard and and metal splinters are horrible.
You know, they go in, but they don’t come out as a piece like a piece of
wood does. For an important part. Yeah. Um, yeah.
So anyway, so I, so I thought, okay, I want to be a woodworker.
Okay. Well, let’s come on to that. But I just want to just rewind a
nice. Okay. Because you said something
really interesting. Because you. I’m just trying to pitch you at this
venerable academic institution. Which is which? The college. Yeah.
And you, you said that the pastoral care wasn’t great and
you came out with, you know, not great results. Yeah, yeah.
Um, what was going on there? I think basically I’m,
I think nowadays I’d be diagnosed as dyslexic.
But, you know, essentially the teaching was going over my head.
Whereas at prep school I could be thoroughly involved and
absolutely loved it. The teaching really suited me.
It was probably quite officious or something.
But, you know, I learnt my French, I learnt my Latin,
I really enjoyed my maths. Um, and then I went to a school
which was teaching, and the teaching literally just
went straight over my head. So I just dropped like a stone.
Um, I didn’t get, I think looking back at it, what I needed was what
I’m good at is I’m very visual, and an art education would have
been really fantastic. Um, but the art lecture was
suspiciously predatory. So I sort of stayed away from that.
Oh, wow. Um, the woodworking teacher was
amazing, Mr. Proctor. Um, but I didn’t really.
I didn’t take my opportunity there to sort of get involved.
The facilities were amazing, but I just I was always trying to catch up.
I was always sort of, you know, one step behind.
You’re not the first person that I’ve spoken to on the podcast to
say that they are or probably are dyslexic, which which I and I,
I mentioned that because I talked to a lot of creative people. Yeah.
Let’s just say that academically you found things challenging because of
the way you process information. Yeah.
What what on the flip side, what does that give you though as a positive?
Because I think it does have a real positive as well that doesn’t it?
I mean, can you just describe how how it makes you think in a certain way?
I think visually I think everything is visual.
I can remember everything visually. Okay.
Um, and my, uh, everything I look at is my, my job.
I look at as, as painting, you know, my creative work I
look at as painting. Um, and I can, you know,
I’ve reached an age where I forget everybody’s name, but I
can remember what they look like. And I think when I read, um,
I think I take 75% of it in. But there’s another part of it
that doesn’t quite, quite work. I remember reading we had to read
return of the native Thomas Hardy and, um, I remember sat on the on
the steps of my mum’s shop trying to read it, and I had to read.
I read the first page seven times because I just couldn’t,
couldn’t understand it. And then it clicked and I was away.
But it took me and I really loved it. I really just love the imagery of
of the writing, but it took that long to sort of engage in it. Yeah.
So you’re an only child and, um, that comes with it, um,
certain conditions. Certain characteristics sometimes.
Did did that feed into, um, how you got on with other people
at school or or. Probably. Yeah. Yeah, I think it’s it,
it it’s quite isolating. Do you feel isolated? Yeah.
I think well, it’s isolated, but also there’s a contentment
because you’re quite contented within your with yourself.
I actually enjoyed school but I’m just saying it wasn’t very
good as far as, as far as the pastoral care was concerned.
They didn’t get their money’s worth. Let’s say your parents. No, no.
Okay, so let’s have a look at your path to becoming who you
are professionally. Yeah. So you mentioned Kevin Mae there.
Yeah. So let’s just continue that story.
So one of what happened from there. So you sort of you didn’t have a
university education. No. You decided that you were going
to do something hands on. Well, Kevin May taught me where
there’s a may. There’s a way. Oh, yeah. Well done. Kevin. Um.
And basically so, so so what I did once, I decided that’s what
I wanted to do, I thought, how am I going to get into it?
And I got a I had no experience, no reason why any college would take me.
So I thought, okay, I’ll learn if I what what trade can I learn?
And there was a, there was a guy who was doing French
polishing up in Hartley Whitney, and he agreed to take me on, um,
paid me a pittance, but I basically for, for nine months he taught me.
He taught me how to French, Polish. So I was there in a workshop
with five other people ruining bits of furniture.
Um, because we were stripping all of the beautiful old patina off and then
polishing it up to a high shine. Which French polish is?
It’s a it’s a it’s a technique of, um, using shellac where you
basically fill the grain and create this high finish.
It taught me taught me one trade. And I carried on to do that.
And I set up my own workshop for nine months.
And then I got into furniture, into a furniture college,
which was Reichardt Wooden, which was then in Thame. It’s now in Oxford.
Uh, historically it was an arts and crafts, um, college.
So it taught woodwork and agricultural engineering,
and I was lucky enough to get on to a mature students course
because I was all of 20 then. And but what was great about it
was it was full of these mature people who were all passionate.
So they came with quite a lot of knowledge already,
and they were trying to sort of just change their career.
So they were it was they were often at sort of in their mid
40s or late 30s, mid 40s. So it was so they were desperate
to learn, but they also were incredibly earnest as well.
So we’re able to all learn from each other.
The lecturers were there, but essentially we were there in
the workshop from nine till seven at night making these things.
I mean, looking back at it, very amateur.
But, you know, some of us were, were, were lucky enough to sort
of get real benefit from it. And I left there and, um, went and
worked as trained as I got a job as an apprentice antique restorer.
I was lucky enough to be in this workshop with just one other
bloke who trained at Blanchard, the the, um, shop in Winchester.
But he had he was, he was, he had great wit and, uh,
Was got these fantastic jobs from some top end dealers.
So we worked on wonderful things and had to reinvent other people’s
mistakes or sort of, you know, not reinvent them, but sort of correct
historic mistakes or old repairs. And consequently you learn an awful
lot about form and pagination. So then my mum said,
do you want to take over the shop? Huh? And she wanted to retire.
And uh, I said, yeah, okay. And I, I needed more room.
So we bought the shop over the road, which was a pet shop, and, but it
was a four storey Georgian shop. Um, and I dug out the cellar,
made it another foot taller inside so I could stand up.
And I turned that into the workshop. So I had a workshop in the
basement and then I had three. I had two stories of, um,
showroom and then I had the top floor was where I lived. Oh, okay.
And then I read that you got a stand at the Olympia Art and antiques.
Yeah, I. Yeah. My mum didn’t retire. She said she was going to. Oh.
So she just hung around. She hung. Around. Um, but I dealt with it.
I had lots of therapy and sort of work my way through that.
And we ended up on very good terms until I booted around.
Um, you know, I’d grown up, as I said,
with this sort of high end furniture, and that’s what I was interested in.
And so I started exhibiting at, um, the antiques for at Olympia,
which at the time was thriving and started to meet some really
interesting dealers, As you know, and decorators.
And I think it was the decorators that really sort of
engaged and sparked my curiosity about about that whole world.
So it and also the American market and the American market was
strong and has remained a sort of stable within my business.
Um, and I over the years. So I did that from 96 until 2008,
I think so for 12 years. And that started once a year.
Then it became three up to three times a year.
I was doing that and that was really my source of income.
Um, but, you know, I was meeting some really good people,
and I used to sell to Michael Smith, Axel Vaught, Colfax and Fowler,
who had a big decorating department and some very good other
decorators as well, their granny, Chester Jones and on. Yeah. Go on.
Goodfellow. Okay, so you were. You were reaching a certain
echelon there? Yeah. And then what’s interesting is
that now you yourself are a decorator in that mold. Yes.
So you’ve gone from selling, dealing in antiques to now
obviously clearly being asked to create whole spaces for people.
How did that come about that. That that was just, um, a lovely
man came into the shop and said, I want to buy a house locally.
And and I like the way you knew your home. Okay. And I said, are you sure?
And I took him upstairs and he went, ah, yes.
That’s absolutely what what what what I want.
When you say I like your home, do you mean that the shop.
And like the shop and the feel of the shop and everything that was in it?
And then, you know, he asked to see around my house
and and I showed him and he really just liked the feel of it.
And I think that’s what he, he felt really comfortable in.
And so we did his house. That was in I think 2006.
And, and, and it got into house and garden and it sort of went
on from there. Okay. Yeah. So now nowadays if someone’s
listening to this and they’re not familiar with what you do,
how would you describe the Max Rolette interior?
And you’re grinning. Because what. Because you’ve had to have you had to
like, storyboard this or something recently. The Max Rolette interior.
Currently my work is threefold. I have it still have a very
strong antiques business, which is which is my joy.
And we also we we manufacture furniture as well.
But that’s sort of very much, um, that originated from sort of
filling in the gaps that I can of things that I couldn’t find. Okay.
Um, I’m drawing on my knowledge as a restorer, etc. to give
things some sort of richness and perturbation in the sort of.
So that’s to make them special within that whole furniture market.
Um, but a max rotter interior is, is what I have this enormous resource.
I have basically the, the barn that I have. Um, I, I buy what I like.
So I just, I don’t buy specifically for any projects.
I just buy things that I feel are special that have some that
say something to me or, and as a consequence,
I have an enormous resource. You know, I have a 5000 square
foot barn, actually. I’ve got more storage now as well.
And as a consequence, I think the way I decorate is,
is what I always equate it to, to painting a picture.
I actually start with the furniture. So I start with how things are going
to work and the scale and how things are going to work, both in plan,
but also the movement of, of, of, you know, in height around the room.
That’s really, really important. Just so that there’s some it’s
not all working on one plane. So there’s sort of there’s
definitely some range. And then I start thinking about
color and texture and how all of that’s going to work.
And once I’ve got some idea of that, then I can start to furnish it.
And I don’t know, it’s it’s hard to really sort of outline it,
but essentially it’s a layering effect where I’m sort of
building up this like, like painting and oil painting.
You’re sort of building up these different layers of, um, color,
but then adding to them with more texture.
Um, and there’s highlights and pops and, um, richness.
So and humour, there has to be sort of something sort of left field
or something that doesn’t really. It’s, there’s nothing for it.
I mean, I don’t know that it’s formulaic to me, but I don’t
think it’s obviously formulaic. And it’s in its in its approach
because there’s, there’s, there’s a sort of random nature to it.
And I think if you’re sourcing from stuff that you love, then you’re
actually putting that love into a, into a, into a home. Yeah.
Yeah, I totally get that. Yeah. But I think that where you may
differ, I think, from other decorators,
is that you’re starting from your barn of incredible stuff. Yeah.
And using that as the first layer, which I think is really interesting.
Um, are you just are you buying all the time and and where are
you buying from and how do you how do you go about that process?
So I think it’s about between 30 and 50 things a month. Okay.
That I buy I buy it, I buy from other dealers,
I buy from, uh, antique fairs. So and I also buy from auctions.
So there’s a lot of sifting that goes on.
There’s an awful lot of choice out there.
You know, there’s everything is now available to you.
So it’s it’s really it’s a, it’s a sort of massive, massive sifting job.
And I have, um, Lucy who helps me and is a great
help basically at sourcing. Um, and she will present, um,
some things to me and often it sets me off on another direction.
Or basically I can look at this auction and then. Oh, yes.
So I’ll look at that. Yes, but what else is there. There.
And then and and like all of these things, you know, if you have
those people who are giving you inspiration or presenting things that
you wouldn’t necessarily look at. That also brings in another, um,
another element which is really important.
So there’s this whole sifting and there’s this sort of input as well,
which is really valuable. Yeah. Okay. Let’s talk about this place.
Yes. So your home. Yeah. You’ve been here how many years now?
I think since 2009. Okay. Yeah. Um, just tell me about the genesis of
this. Why did you buy this place? And how did you come about it?
I wanted to I always wanted to live in the countryside.
The first house that I rented was, uh, a council flat,
and it had a it was a first floor, first floor maisonette in a village.
And it had a garden that you had to walk down a long path to get to.
And you got to this garden. And it had I basically grew
vegetables very badly. You know, I, I can always still smell
the coriander seeds where they’d bolted and, you know, gone mad.
Um, but I just thought, yeah, I’m very, very much at home in
the countryside. Yeah. And, um, so 2009,
my parents passed away, and and so, Jane, I thought, okay, let’s
look for a slightly larger home. And we basically went on one of
those websites and went through farm houses at this price.
And we this was the second one down. Anyway, we came across this one.
It was under offer. And um, I thought, well, let’s go and
look at it anyway. Let’s have a go. And it was, it was smaller than we
expected as a home, but actually it had all of these extra
outbuildings which have just proved, you know, I could see we’re going
to be just invaluable, really. So that was that the real draw
then the outbuildings, I mean, obviously the house as well.
But yeah, but the house, no, the house was actually I think
people say that you’re always going to be as happy as the house
that you grew up in, you know, the same sort of scale.
And actually that’s funnily enough, I think this is about the same,
you know, it’s um, it’s very embedded in the chalk, you know,
of of which is what we live in. Chalk is really important to me.
Just as for just the feel of it, there’s something about it.
I feel very at home within it. How interesting. What is that?
I don’t know, I always think of going to the New Forest and it’s like,
that’s acid soil. And it’s just like poison to me.
It’s. It’s really weird. And I’m very effective. Yeah.
I think it’s just that environment. I’m.
I feel really sort of at home here in this, sort of on this chalk
bed that we’re on with the river running below it. I love that.
I really love that, Max. Now, the idea that we have a sort of
terroir that we’re kind of below. Yeah. Really? Yeah.
Really important. Yeah, yeah. So, so so describe the landscape
here then and why you like it. So here we’re just on we’re basically
in the valley in the Itchen Valley. And those were just about four foot
above the river. Yeah currently. But we’re on chalk so we’re safe
okay. Because it’ll all drain into the
chalk when it, when when the flood comes.
Um, and the, the, the, in the field is next to the river in our field,
there used to be a priory which was part of the nun associated with
another minster Stuff in Winchester, and that was dissolved by Henry
the Eighth. And then I assume. Well, there certainly is.
Parts of that anonymous letter have been reused.
So the coin stones are on the back of the house are all corn stones.
And then there’s various elements in the kitchen.
There’s, uh, a corner figure sort of ensued no earlier than Tudor
medieval dress sort of holding up the corner of the kitchen.
And then on the outside of the kitchen wall,
there’s some three gargoyles that were obviously taken from, or
figures that were taken from there. And upstairs and in the house
there are various oak beams that have been reused, um, from the,
from that priory. So, yeah. So the house is built basically.
Um, there’s a big estate here and this was the dairy for the estate.
So the front of the house is brick and flint.
No, it’s just brick to sort of make it, um, Look good from the road.
And the rest is all stone and flint. Yeah, yeah.
I live not very far from here. And sometimes to be found
marauding past your front door. Yes, in my running kit. Yeah.
Give you a wave. Um, but I, I love the context of
this house because it sort of got quite a steep hill coming down to it.
So you definitely feel very, sort of settled here. Yes. Yeah.
Um, as you say, you’re close to the river.
Um, I don’t know. It’s got quite. It feels very English.
It feels quite ancient to me. Um, how do you feel about that
sort of sense of belonging that we all strive for in our home?
Because the home is the bricks and mortar of the place,
but it’s also the area we’re in, the context that we’re in.
So how do you feel about how you kind of belong to this piece of the Earth,
if you see what I mean? Um, I feel totally content within it.
To be honest, I think we also have a year that we
put in the garden and um, we often sleep in that during the summer.
And that, again, is sort of part of feeling grounded.
It’s important just to feel that every now and then,
just to feel the air and the earth. And it feels very it feels really,
really good. And so I think here I’m,
I’m yeah, I feel totally at home. I don’t want to be anywhere else.
There’s other places that bring me great, great joy.
But this is definitely home. Oh, yeah.
That’s such a nice feeling to have, isn’t it? Says. Yeah.
Do you think you’ll be here forever then? I suspect so, yeah.
My wife is not keen to move under any circumstance.
She doesn’t want to move. No, she doesn’t want to move.
And I think I totally understand that.
I think it’s it might get a little lonely old in, my old age,
but I think I think we might have a returning child. Maybe.
I bet you’re wishing for that, aren’t you? Probably.
But actually, the house is a really good scale,
isn’t it? Because I can see that. It’s a great scale.
Because when we when we came here, we had three boys who were like 12,
11 and seven, I think. Uh, and our when we lived in
Winchester, our garden was actually a yard, which was probably, um,
seven meters by five meters or something. And that was it.
Um, and so we moved here and they’ve got land, but also in one of the
barns, I created a sort of sports hall for them, and we called it
the sports hall. So we set it up. We put a wooden floor down so they
could play hockey indoors in there. And then we built a skate park
for them, like with a half pipe. And that was actually a great
attraction for all of their mates. So when it was raining, it was okay
to heaven basically. That’s amazing. Yeah. So it was good fun.
So they’ve all grown up in it and you know, the house was big
enough but not too big. So it’s intimate. The whole house.
You know, the house is actually very intimate space.
So when we’ve got friends here or either sat around the kitchen table
or all nestled into the sitting room and that’s and it’s cozy. Yeah.
A quick interlude to remind you that you can see a really intimate house
tour with Max rocket over on Patreon. Max gets very emotional as he
shows me all the objects he’s been given and the amazing treasures
he’s unearthed over the years, and it’s a really touching look
at his life behind the scenes. So head to Patreon.com with Matt
to take a look. You’re a very cool dad, Max.
You know that you are, though. I mean, you know what?
Kid wouldn’t want all that kind of stuff.
Yeah, but that’s what they need, isn’t it? That’s what they need.
Yeah. To just stay with your boys a moment.
Mhm. What amazes me about you and Jane is
that your, your, your sons are still, it seems to me very,
very happy to be here to happen. They don’t live here but they
come back a lot and they hang out with you. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
They like they seem to enjoy your company, right? Yeah.
That’s very aspirational for me. And I’ve got girls that were younger.
But I love that idea that you can still be a bit of a magnetic
presence for them in their lives. How do you how do you explain that?
I think it’s about enabling, isn’t it?
I think Jane and I are both very sort of, um, interested in our
spirituality, and I think that’s really important to us.
So I think there’s, there’s a Jains Feldenkrais
practitioner and psychotherapist. So there’s a lot of there’s a lot of
awareness about physicality and about one’s mental state and being open.
And we’re both, um, I think we’d call ourselves Buddhist.
We both do Buddhist meditation on a regular. I try and do it every day.
Jane does do it every day. Um,
I’m always slightly lagging behind, but still, you know, it’s important.
That’s really important to us. And I think that’s that’s always
been there. So I think just bringing that
into the, you know, having that in the home is good.
I mean, that’s come to us latterly, I suppose when one’s consumed
with raising children, it’s not quite as calm as that.
It’s a lot more frenetic. But I think you’re creating a
home and creating warmth has always been really important.
Jane has been amazing at that. Yeah. Yeah.
So you’re sort of describing that they they feel.
It sounds like you’re very open with them and vice versa.
And they can generally be themselves around you. Yeah, absolutely. It’s.
Yeah, sometimes it would become a bit sickening for them.
The amount of drugs talks we did and. I never did any big sex talks, but I
was sort of quite pleased about that. There’s time. No, it’s too late now.
Um, but I think it’s really, really amazing the way you both.
You’ve told me that you both get up quite early and you go across
the road to the studio. Don’t you meditate together as a
couple? Yeah. That’s magical, I think.
What do you like? How is that important to you?
And why do you do that? Well, I was thinking about you.
One of your one of your pointers pre pre.
This was basically where is your home.
And I think actually home is basically starts in your,
you know there’s your there’s your mind and there’s your body. Yeah.
And I think your body is really your home.
And how you set everything else around it is, is just maybe it’s
inspiration for your home. That’s so interesting.
It’s just about being in yourself, isn’t it?
Understanding what’s going on. Seeing what’s going on.
Letting it be and not sort of trying to wrestle. Wrestle with it.
That’s not always easy at all. But, you know, it’s just basically
understanding these things come and they go and we’re in transit.
You know, our body is here and then it’s gone.
Um, no, but I feel I feel like just just the meditation and I’m pretty
crap at it, but basically just, you know, it’s a constant learning
every day. There’s a learning. And sometimes you sit there and you
just think, get really frustrated. Sometimes you just laugh at yourself
because of what’s going on. You know, that your thoughts just
disappearing into sort of nonsense. And sometimes there’s a real
moments of calm and and and depth. Yeah. And light. Yeah.
What else do you do specifically for your well-being in that?
In that kind of way? Um, I do a bit of yoga. Yeah.
So I normally follow the meditation with some yoga, um,
I cycle that’s my sort of main form of exercise, and I love it.
Um, I’ve always cycled, I’ve off and used to go on holidays as a kid.
That was basically my freedom. I’d go off and we’d go pack
everything to our panniers and go around youth hostels,
basically around Scotland, Wales, south of England.
It was basically complete freedom. Um, and it and you learn
independence from like I started when I was 13 and my parents were
quite they let me do it, you know. I don’t know that parents would
nowadays, but you know, that’s that was part of it.
So you got to see things and cook and do things that, you know,
being, you know, all that stuff. Do you cycle on your own or do
you go with other people? Um, so I cycle on my own just
during the week. Sometimes there’s a club locally that
I go with on a Sunday, but every year I cycle with a friend and we,
we go on these long adventures. So we’ve cycled to Rome,
but in weekly stages, and now we’re cycling to Lisbon,
so we’ve got as far as this. We so cycled to La Rochelle.
Then the next stage was to Beer Ritz and now the next stage is
to Santiago, I think. So what? So you’ll have to go out to Beer Ritz
and then go from there to Santiago. Yeah I see, yeah. That’s great.
Yeah, that’s pretty great. Yeah. Um, well, while we’re on the cycling,
you had an accident, didn’t you? I did. Tell us about that.
Um, so that was, uh, 2009, I think. Um, I was basically training for
some very adventurous, sort of demanding cycle race,
and I was super fit, and I was cycling up the the road here,
and the lorry that empties our septic tank was following me up
the hill in first gear, going really, really slowly. Okay.
And anybody wants to hear this, but basically I let the lorry pass.
As it passed, I fell over and went up between the front wheel
and the back wheel, and he he stopped very abruptly, thank God.
But in doing so, just crushed my pelvis. Wow.
So, uh, my heart stopped. The air ambulance came.
They resuscitated me and, uh, flew me to Portsmouth. And, um.
I am very fortunate. No organ damage, just structural.
And I’ve recovered pretty much. Yeah. I mean, that’s.
So that’s a near-death experience. Yeah. So.
So what did that change for you, if anything?
I just think it’s just awareness of mortality, and.
And I could have been in a wheelchair from then on.
I could have, you know, I used to do hydrotherapy, and
everybody else in the hydrotherapy pool were men who’d had strokes.
And I just thought, oh, I’m so lucky. All I’ve got is basically a
structural damage. The the the has been repaired as
best they can, but I’m not suffering anything like these other people.
And so I just felt really lucky. And also I felt a lot of love
from everybody. Everybody was so supportive and,
um, caring. I think long term I think it’s
just the the trauma is still there somewhere that’s not worked out.
But it’s, um, made me feel very sort of precious about life. Yeah.
So you’re so you’re more recent, um, your interest in
spirituality and so on is that. Does that come from that time?
No, no, it’s not related. That’s always been there.
So that’s always like I that’s always been there since Since I
at school I, we, we were forced to go to church every day.
But actually I didn’t see that as a burden.
And Christianity is not my thing. But there was certainly an awful lot
that I got out of out of the the ritual and the spiritual aspect of
it, that I really felt very special. And looking back at it, my,
my father was had that nature, had that nature to him as well.
He was very much there was something, something very special in his nature
that that I don’t I don’t know if it’s rubbed off, but that was there
and it was present for me. Yeah. And have you done any other forms
of therapy and things like that in recent years? Not in recent years.
I did it mainly in my 20s with my mother. Well, not with my mother.
About my. Mother. Oh. Did you? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, God.
We all have our mothers that we have to work out,
especially only children, where there’s a sort of tight bond.
Well, yeah, that’s so interesting. I was going to ask you that really?
Because when whenever I meet an only child, they invariably they
say that they spent a lot of time with adults growing up and that
that was quite formative. Yeah. What’s what’s that like in your
case then? Well, actually,
I think actually made me very quiet. I was you know,
I didn’t I always say to people I didn’t talk until I was 28.
Yeah, I think I was similar to that. Yeah, I was I was very quiet.
I sort of couldn’t stand small talk. I just thought that was just
ridiculous. Why would you, you know,
have all this chatter? It’s totally unnecessary if
you’re going to say something. Had to be valuable.
Well, um, I can’t sound like that now.
So you really fascinatingly talked about, uh,
the human body being a home of sorts, which I totally agree with. Yeah.
Is it your view, then, that you could actually feel at
home anywhere as long as you’re, you know. I’d like to think so.
Matt, do you think you would, though? No, no.
No, I don’t I don’t feel like I’m. No, not at that. Not at that level.
At that level. Yeah. Yeah. Not many of us are. No.
No, no, I think that’s why, you know, we surround yourself
with stuff that reinforces your, your your sense of self, I think.
Okay. Yeah. Well that’s interesting. So so so is that what you feel
the objects here do in some way? Or do you mean the house itself?
No, I think the objects do. Definitely. Yeah.
I’d carry the objects with me. Okay. Yeah.
So if I like to know they’re there. Okay.
So if I, if the house is burning down, I’d go and pick objects over
money or not over people. But yeah. Hopefully not. Yeah. No, no.
But there’s some things that are very special and I just want to
want to keep. Okay. Well let’s let’s do the burning
fire question then. Okay. Come on. What are you what are you picking.
What are you taking? Oh my God. Um, okay. Uh, Windsor chair.
Okay. The old Windsor chair. The Windsor. Chair. Yeah.
Uh, the chest of drawers that my dad gave me when I first started
an apprenticeship. It was a pile of sticks,
but basically, it’s a wonderful walnut chest of drawers that I put
back together and sort of loved. Um, and then it’s going to be
stuff that my children have made, basically, I think. Yeah, yeah.
Pictures that they’ve drawn, um, or sculptures that they’ve made.
Of which there are a lot in here. There are. But you’re very.
You’re very lucky, don’t you? You’ve got there’s this a huge
amount of things in here that have been given to by your family.
Yeah, family and friends, I think. Yeah, but yeah, I suppose so.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I, it probably seems, um,
normal to you, but I think actually, you know, I visit a lot of people
in a lot of different homes and I don’t see this level of the,
this level of sort of love exchange, if I can put it like that.
And through objects. Right. I think it’s just. Yeah.
But then, I mean, what do you give you, what do you give your parents.
It’s really, you know, if you’ve got, you know, if you can create
something and I suppose that’s, that’s the point isn’t it.
That’s what I hold valuable, you know. Yeah.
A piece of clothing is great, but it’s not got the same as
anything personal. So I think something personal is
always, um, just so much more touching, even if it’s just a
card that’s to hand drawn. It’s so much more touching than any,
any gift or bought, bought thing or any bought item. Yeah, yeah.
And it’s worth saying at this point as well, that we did a walk
around to the house beforehand and people should definitely
watch that because it but there is a story behind everything that
you have in here and it’s really touching and really poignant. Yeah.
Um, it’s one of the best tools that I’ve done.
I have to say that even the secret centers that you get,
get given are handmade at Christmas, right by your employees and stuff.
So employees. So yeah, it’s a yes. But as you say,
it means a lot to you. Yeah. And people know that it means a
lot to you. So I guess that’s why they do it.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It’s it’s very, very touching.
So do you think that if we moved you somewhere else, but we took some of
those important objects with you. You would feel at home?
Yeah, definitely. I think, yeah, I think it.
It wouldn’t take much. So how far are you transporting me?
Well, even into that. Yeah, well, that’s a good question.
Yeah, but I suppose I suppose. You’re taking me to the New Forest,
are you? Hmm. That might be a step too far.
All those ponies, I mean, I guess I guess I’m trying to get to
the bottom of the extent to which the architecture of the thing okay,
is important, or whether it’s all the layers inside.
And I think you’re saying it’s all the stuff inside.
It’s the stuff inside. Yes. That makes a home. Yeah.
There’s a psychotherapist called Michael Balint. Or there was. Yeah.
I’ve been writing about this recently for my book.
Um, and he wrote a book called Thrills and regression, okay, in
And he came up with two words. All right.
One was one’s owner, Phil, and the other one is Fila Pat. Okay.
So the only fill, he reckons, gets comfort from being around
physical objects or people. They generally prefer sort of
quite familiar experiences to very thrill seeking ones.
Um, and they don’t always like being alone that much.
They like being surrounded by things, people.
And then the file about, conversely, prefers not to attach
to people and things. Very much. So a six legged animal.
That’s a six figure animal. Yeah. So this is not you.
Um, they they really like thrill seeking stuff.
So you might find them doing, like, you know, skiing and high wire
acts and stuff like that. Yeah. And they can be a bit emotionally
absent sometimes. Yeah. Um, you can see where I’m going with,
with with this, I think. But, you know, you’re it seems to
me that you are someone more than most people I know, who really
needs those objects around them. Who starts tearing up when I start
talking about them. Well, yeah. But this is it. Yeah, I don’t know.
I’d like to think that I could live without them.
I’m sure I could live without them for a while, but I think I’d
soon sort of acquire other stuff that would replace it. Yeah.
Yeah, I think it’s it’s just the it’s the story that’s associated with the
item as much as the item in itself. Although the items I suppose,
that I choose to display are, I consider beautiful. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I find it I find it so interesting.
I mean, with with your collecting. Yeah.
Can you describe what you’re looking for or what it is that you see?
Because there’s, there’s a whole massive range of
different things in here. But if I could ask you to find a
thread that runs through everything, what would it be?
Untouched by the story. Yeah, basically. That’s what.
That’s what it comes down to. It’s the story of whether it’s.
I’m looking at there’s a bit of carving that’s on there over
mantel there. And you can just see that that’s
that’s obviously the hand of somebody. It’s done in about 1700.
Uh, and and just like the skill involved in it is amazing.
And it’s a fragment and nobody will probably notice it.
But to me, it’s there’s it’s just that point of discovery where you
find something and you’re just like, that’s that’s amazing.
And so that’s something that’s not done by me.
And then you get something like this. Hold on.
So this is the thing I always pull out. Sorry. This is it.
So this is this is this is Max’s story in one piece here.
Okay, so the cutlery tray. There’s a cutlery tray. Okay.
And it’s got, it’s got different animals down
the carved down the side. Yeah. And it’s got keep your steel
always bright on that end. Okay. We’re carved into it. Yeah. Yeah.
So that that could apply to to to your knife.
Or it could apply to a woodworker. You know, as far as I see. Yeah.
And here what does it say. Well there’s a will.
There’s a way. Okay. Well where there’s a may,
there’s a way as well, you see. So it’s going back to that.
Let’s go back to that. So this is made by um, it turns
out it’s stamped on the bottom, which is really rare,
but it turns out that it’s it’s carved by a lamplighter.
He was a wood carver, but also a lamplighter in Bristol.
So obviously he would be would whittling during the day and
lighting the lamps at night. And I bought this from Olympia
Antiques for from Robert Hirschhorn, who was a fantastic dealer and
sort of folk for folk art and wonderful oak furniture.
And I just cried when I bought it because because of the
association with Kevin and, and just this whole feeling of,
of that being my story. Okay. So my, my grandfather was a wood
carver. I forgot to mention that bit. Okay. Yeah.
So you looked at this object and you thought that is in some way
autobiographical? Yeah. It represents a part of my life.
Yeah. That’s so interesting. Yeah. Even though no one, you know,
had anything to do with making it or owning it or giving it or anything.
No. Yeah. Exactly that. Yeah. Because that’s that’s another
thing entirely, isn’t it? I mean, when if someone that you
know and love like a son gives you something that they’ve made.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s a very, very clear emotional
transaction. Exactly. Yeah. But that this is something very
different to that, which is something that you’ve bought. Yeah.
But still does it mean does it. I mean if.
It’s different mean it’s different emotion, different emotions.
But there’s something about how it’s sort of, um,
the sort of natural beauty of it, the sort of the writing on both
ends and, and the sort of the sort of naivety of it as well,
which is, which is charming. I love that. Yeah. There we are. How do you know if it’s not hoarding?
How do you know? Well, what’s the line between
collecting and hoarding? I don’t need to hoard. I’ve got.
I’ve basically I can sell, you know, I basically sell
anything that I don’t. There’s very little stuff that
actually makes it from over the road to here. Yeah.
So over the road is where my stories and that is basically
stuff that I really love. But I don’t need any of it.
There’s very little that actually comes over into the house now,
you know, I have everything that I need. I might replace a cushion or.
No, I don’t need, I don’t I there’s nothing that’s, that’s needed.
And most of what I feel like I own is actually there’s very
little furniture in here. It’s mainly it’s mainly objects
that have a story behind them. I think the only thing I have
collected at Delft plates. When, um, I did a podcast with
Beth and Laura Wood. Um, she said was she likened
objects to sound, which I thought was really interesting. Wow. Yeah.
Yeah. And I really liked that. And she talked about how.
So she’s got a show at the Design Museum, and that meant she had to
take some of the things out of her flat and give them to the show. Mhm.
And she said that that made her space a bit too noisy.
And so she had to find the right things to fill those spaces again.
And I was reflecting on that and I was thinking about how
actually John Cage of course made a whole thing about how
empty spaces have a resonance or a sound or a noise to them.
So actually, we’re living with things all the time,
which reverberate in some way. Yeah. Do you identify with that?
Yeah, I think it’s it’s all it’s all color,
isn’t it? To me, it’s all color. So color. But colors are.
But do you say color is like a visual thing?
Or do you say, do you think it also has a sort of frequency,
like a sonic frequency as well? Yeah, yeah, it’s a texture.
It’s a, you know, and yes, it’s a texture.
So we’re building the layers and layers and layers going through
ours and, and, and different portals to look through.
How do you know if this place is not too noisy, like,
how do you stop it getting too noisy? So I mean, what’s what’s too much,
you know, clearly if you had like, piles of rubbish in the corner
and flies everywhere, that would be too much.
That would be that, would you? You’d gone too far. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But but as a collector of things, which you are, and someone who loves
objects, how do you know where to set that frequency or set that.
That’s when I tidy up for you when I, when you come round.
It’s so touching. Okay, so this is. This is. No.
But basically I don’t I like things. Um, I don’t mind clutter,
but I don’t like dust. And what’s dust? Dust is just.
Just not literally dust. I mean, stuff that is, is, um,
impairing your vision, which which may sound a bit odd,
but there’s some. So, you know,
it’s easy to to just let things lie or let things scatter about.
So actually there is, there is order and there’s placement
within things and the way things are put down, I don’t know.
So I’ve talked on our tour about, um, my friend Edward Mahoney,
who I used to travel around with, and his wife always used to say,
Edward is so clever. He was a film editor,
but he became an antique dealer. But he just knows how to place
something. Who put something down? It’s just perfect.
And I don’t know where, you know. And I feel like that’s that’s an
intuition. And and and I don’t know where
that comes from at all. I mean, I’m very lucky because I
have my showroom and I basically setting out a shop is playtime.
You know, it’s, you know, we’re moving stuff all around all the
time trying to make it look good. So there’s a constant that that
process of adjusting is, is is is maybe it’s learned I don’t know.
Or maybe it’s instinctive. I’m not sure.
The things move around in here much. Not a lot. No, no.
So it sounds like you’re kind of you’ve reached the point where you’re
content with what you’ve got in here and the way that it’s set.
Yeah, yeah. And you have to the extent that
on your fridge over there. Yeah. Is something that one of your sons
gave you probably 20 years ago. Yeah. I think that’s probably dug out
when we were sort of, um, looking through some stuff.
Yeah, but it hasn’t stuck on the fridge for 20 years. Okay. Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. Give it time. Um, I just love to ask you about
family for a moment. Yes. How did you and Jane meet?
Uh, we met in the pub, uh, in the eclipse pub in Winchester.
Um, a mutual friend introduced us. Jane was visiting her mum in
Winchester, and, um, I was pissed off because my housemate
told me that she didn’t want to go on holiday with me, and, uh,
so I my trip, my I basically was an apprentice had not taken any holiday.
I was self-employed and so I was bemoaning this fact.
This is my first big holiday anyway. Jane, who was in theatre, had a
space in her diary and she said, well, where do you want to go?
And I said, I really want to go to Nepal.
That’s, you know, that’s really where I want to go.
She said, well, I’ve got this space. When can you.
Can you do between this day and that day? And I went, yeah, okay.
So I hadn’t met her before, but we just thought we would
sort of choose souls who had a very good mutual friend.
So we sort of trusted in it and, um. Wait. Hang on.
So you went to Nepal together? Having Nepal together for a month?
Yeah. Her boyfriend dropped her off at
the airport. I love that. Well, he’s very trustful.
I don’t think it was that happy. No. Anyway, uh, yeah, it worked out.
So by the time you came back from Nepal. Yeah.
Does she have to have the awkward conversation with the boy?
Well, we got a wedding. We got we got congratulations on
our on our honeymoon, on the from the air hostess on our way back.
And a piece of cake and a glass of champagne. That’s really lovely.
But he did pick her up from the airport, but it didn’t last long.
Why does it work between the two of you? Oh, we’re very different.
Okay. Yeah. Why are you different? How are you different?
I don’t know, I think it’s just. It’s just a very different energy.
But we’re. But we share this sort of same,
I think. I think it’s essentially the same
sort of spiritual grounding. And we have a similar ground in our
sort of the way we see things in that sort of in our physicality,
in the way we see. You know, she’s she’s comes from
dance and physical theatre and I, I’ve come into it.
So with sort of our lives, you know, we’re both both
creative and everyone goes, oh, we’ve got such creative children.
But actually that’s that’s largely down to Jane,
who’s basically in his has enlivened me and enabled my sort of more
theatrical side to be present. It’s definitely down to her that
my my creative side has come out. You know,
she showed me what was possible. You know how we can just put flowers
in things and and create a creative, wonderful kitchen environment,
you know, hosting environment, how to have a party and how to enjoy life.
And that’s really down to her without her.
I’d still be probably, you know, I’d still probably be at the bench.
You know, so that’s my so her her influences
on all of us is phenomenal. So it sounds like it’s very much
a social influence bringing you out of yourself in. Yeah.
But no, it’s also it’s just a creative influence as well
because it’s enabled me. It’s enabled me to to to free
myself into that world, which beforehand I don’t think I,
I knew I had or trusted. Yeah. Yeah. Um. And then you’re with your boys.
How how do you feel? Like this home has shaped them
and who they’ve become? I think what shaped them is
basically there’s been a both there’s a lot of visual input.
There’s a lot of enabling. Um, but there’s also the other
people who come into the home who are other creatives,
who we who we’ve had in our lives, and also some of the craziness as
well that, um, we’ve, we’ve, we’ve had in our friends and introduced,
which sort of enables them to sort of express themselves and not feel shy
about expressing themselves within our arts world and with our within
our sort of business world there, you know, it’s full of mavericks.
It’s there’s not not a lot of not a lot of conventionally
straight people. So it’s, it’s it’s really shown
them the possibility and enable them to do that.
Sometimes I worry that that is a bit too much pressure. Okay.
To be an individual. Sometimes I think actually,
you know, why do they they don’t necessarily need that.
Well, it’s okay to because. I think it sometimes makes it
harder to sort of, you know, put that pressure.
It’s probably easier to is it easier to come from, you know,
there’s the the opposite would be to come from a very normal household
into something more creative. Um, you know what I mean? Yes. Yeah.
So though we’re never going to be bank managers were they.
Know. Last thing is the future. Yes. What are your.
Just tell me about the future quickly.
If you didn’t live here. Yeah. And you had another chapter? Yes.
Like draw a picture for me about what that would be. What?
What would your home look like? You could.
Because I saw you not long ago. And you thrust this picture in front
of me, which was like a an old van. Oh, yeah.
It was an old van that you’d found online.
And I can see that there’s part of you that’s thinking, oh,
I could live in a van, just like, you know, driving around the place.
Well, I think there’s a there is the caravan thing, you know, which is,
which is very, very attractive. Basically,
it’s a very uncluttered life. Yeah. Very,
very simple life where there is no, no, there’s nothing to manage. Yeah.
You know, um, as my children would go on, you know, although you
always talk about maintenance, you know, because there’s so many
different aspects to think about. And I think I would like to think
that in another chapter of my late, you know, the next, the probably
the next chapter of my life, I’d like less maintenance.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that. And I’d basically just like to have a
simpler life where basically I can, um, I can have my spiritual life.
I can have my, my bicycle and, and be with a visit my family rather
than I have to have to sort of entertain my family. Um, and, and.
Yeah, just just have a simpler, simpler life.
Do you think you’ll get there? You’re going to be here forever.
Um, thanks so much, Max. That’s great.
No, but thank you for having us here. I mean, it’s very.
It’s really it’s it means a lot to me.
It’s very intimate to talk to someone in their kitchen about
their life in that way. It’s it’s. I found it so interesting. Um. And.
Yeah, just you showing me around earlier and talking me through
your things. Yeah, that was weird. That was weird.
It was quite emotional experience to sort of, um.
I don’t think I’ve ever shown anybody, you know,
the personal nature of it all. Yeah, it was emotional for you. And.
But that’s that’s why you’re amazing. Because, you know, because you do you
have that, um, I suppose you’re, you’re you’re happy to,
to share yourself in that way. And that’s I think that’s an amazing
thing. So thank you so much. Thank you Matt. Fantastic.