Why Bikes Can’t Have Carbon Ceramic Brakes

Alex tested carbon ceramic brake rotors from AliExpress on a steep descent to see if they’re a viable alternative to traditional steel brakes. While carbon brakes are a staple in Formula One and aerospace, we explore if this technology can trickle down to the cycling world. Join Alex as he put these rotors through a real-world test and discuss the pros and cons with a Formula One brake expert.

Chapters: ⏱️
00:00 – Introduction to Carbon Brakes
00:43 – Carbon Fiber in Cycling
01:24 – Carbon Rim Brakes
01:52 – Why Aren’t Carbon Disc Brakes a Thing?
04:54 – The AliExpress “Carbon Ceramic” Rotors
05:42 – Talking to an F1 Brake Expert
09:04 – The Future of Carbon Brakes
11:53 – The Real-World Test
16:17 – Final Thoughts and Conclusion

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This is a carbon ceramic brake rotor from AliExpress and I’m stood at the top of a steep descent to find out if this brake rotor can stop me safely. Now, you might be thinking that sounds like a bad idea or that carbon rotors in general are a terrible idea. And while I’m kind of inclined to agree in this video, well, I want to find out. The world of aerospace, Formula 1, and Moto GP have successfully used carbon brakes for a very long time now. But is this tech ever going to be something that can make its way onto our bikes? Well, in this video, I’m going to explore the subject further, talk to a Formula 1 brake systems expert, and of course, try it myself. In the cycling world, I think it’s fair to say carbon fiber is a material that has revolutionized our bikes and components. So much so that we almost have carbon fiber everything if your heart desires it and your wallet can fund it. Even so, there are still plenty of parts that carbon fiber really just doesn’t work for. Things like bolts, bearings, chains, cassettes, hubs, and mech hangers. And I also think most people would probably say disc brake rotors, too. But I think in the future this could change. Now, in some ways, you could say it’s already been a thing for a fairly long time now. Just most of us have completely overlooked it. Carbon fiber rim brakes are what I’m talking about. Different from disc brakes. Yes, I know that. But the concept is pretty much the same. You see, the carbon fiber wheel rim is basically just a massive carbon fiber brake rotor. The thing is, carbon rim brakes were never really all that great. Even if we like to think they were, they weren’t. Wet weather performance was terrible. They would overheat on long descents, and they wore out faster than rims made from aluminium. I mean, surely we can see why manufacturers haven’t exactly rushed to make carbon disc brake rotors a thing, especially given the fact that if we shrink the system down and move it away from the wheel rim, well, it increases the forces that the brake has to deal with. And it also increases the heat buildup, too. But apparently not because a while back when I was at Eurobike, I saw a company called Carbonova who seemed to have developed a carbon brake rotor which appears to resist the buildup of heat that’s associated with prolonged or aggressive braking. And this is what really prompted me to want to explore the subject further. Now on their booth at Eurobike, they had a pretty neat setup to demonstrate this with an infrared camera showing the heat compared to a conventional steel rotor. Anyway, I got in contact with them to try to get my hands on a set. And it turns out their production scale is absolutely tiny, and they didn’t even have any product or rotors to ship out to me. And when they would, well, it was going to be ages until I could get my hands on some. So, I did what I think most other people would do, and I tried to find other options that were available sooner while I waited for those to arrive. And this is where things started to go a little bit wrong. You see, it turns out a few people have attempted carbon fiber rotors before. You had a company called Kettle Cycles who ran a successful Kickstarter campaign all the way back in 2012. It ran for just 20 days, attracting $436 backers and generating a whopping $72,000 to fund their silicon carbide ceramic rotors. Well, whether or not anyone actually received their carbon fiber rotors, I don’t know. But also, they had a second product that was said to be even lighter, the SFL rotor or so freaking light rotor. It just weighed 40 g in 140 mm version, which to be fair is very light when you compare that to say a modern Dura Ace rotor, which is just over 100 g. Now, I’m not too sure I would even want so freaking light brake rotors, but I would be keen for us to have so freaking powerful brake rotors if those were ever to be a thing. Anyway, while these all look to the part, I’ve never seen or heard of anyone ever using a set. So, if by some sort of miracle you’ve tried some or you know someone that has tried some, well, please get involved in the comments section down below and share your experience. Since then, though, there have been even more. A company called Breakout seemed to have a prototype carbon rotor a few years back, but that’s nowhere to be seen now. And then more recently, well, you had carbon tie rotors, which have been a commercial success, but only really use a carbon fiber carrier with a steel braking surface. So, while they are cool, they’re not a true carbon fiber rotor. Then, I started to find rotors that were steel or aluminium with a ceramic coating on the brake surface. And then finally, I found these bad boys on AliExpress listed as carbon ceramic sixhole disc brake disc mountain road bicycle riding accessory lock disc brake disc. I mean, with a name like that, they’ve got quite a lot to live up to. Well, this is what arrived. A fairly budget looking rotor with a steel braking surface and a black coating on the top. Not exactly what I was expecting, even though it does say carbon ceramic uh etched onto the carrier. Um, nonetheless, my hopes were pretty low for something actually good turning up, but I figured it was worth a try. Now, before I try and ride down this steep descent, firstly, I need to answer a couple of important questions. What actually are carbon brakes, and what are their relative advantages and disadvantages? To help me answer that question, I spoke to Formula 1 brake expert Alex Robinson, who works for the McLaren racing team. Carbon brakes are a different way of doing a braking system compared to a normal road or bike, a road car or bike. So, conventional cars and bikes with disc brakes use a steel disc and a pad made from some kind of organic or scinted material uh in a resin which is bonded onto a metal backing plate. So, those those are the kind of se things you would see in a normal road car and also in a normal car with disc brakes. Um, they’re pretty cheap. They’re pretty reliable. They work well when they’re cold. Uh, and they have good wear wear resistance, but uh they’re very heavy and they don’t have very good performance at high temperatures. So, in Formula 1, um, we do completely the opposite and we use carbon fiber for both the discs and the pads, um, which are much lighter. They work very very well at high temperatures. Um, but they are quite a bit more expensive and they do require some warm up to get them in the right temperature zone. How long have carbon brakes been used in Formula 1 and what was the first sort of catalyst to move to that system? So, we’ve had for carbon brakes in Formula 1 for over 20 years now. Um, and they actually originally came from aircraft technology. And in fact, the uh the Formula 1 brakes were taken out of the middle of a big uh aircraft brake disc. So that’s where it started a long time ago. Um, and they’ve come a long way since then. Um, the thing that’s probably developed the most is the cooling. Um, we have so much energy going into the brakes that we pepper the disc with thousands of holes. Here’s an example from a few years ago. So this is a pure carbon disc with um over a thousand holes all the way around it. So that’s how we manage the cooling in F1 and that’s actually where quite a lot of the cost goes as well. Um the material is expensive as well um because it takes many months to produce the disc. Um so the raw material is expensive and then also the machining of the disc to put in all the holes is also very expensive. Are there any examples of the kinds of things you would anticipate you could see issues arriving or things that you might have to look to try to overcome when you try and shrink a system down onto a bike? I guess are there any things that spring to mind for you? Stand out as problems to overcome? Well, one of the big difficulties with the carbon discs, and that’s whether they’re ceramic or not, is they’re quite brittle compared to steel. Steel is a very resilient material. it doesn’t mind if it gets a bit of gravel stuck in there or if you uh something bumps up from the road and hits it, it doesn’t really notice. Whereas with carbon discs, that can be quite a problem. So, that would, I think, be one of the main risks and difficulties to overcome. Also, um it’s not as strong as steel, so the disc might need to be a little bit thicker to uh be able to take the same amount of braking energy, but it’s so much lighter that even if the disc was a bit thicker, you’re still going to end up in a in a lighter place. Given your understanding and knowledge of it, including the limitations of cost as well, would you ever say you feel like this is something you anticipate coming to a reality on the world of bikes or do you think it will always be a super niche application? I imagine it will probably be quite similar to carbon brakes on road cars actually. You know, for a long time it was in Formula 1 only. Um, and then it trickled down to the very very top end of motorsport in Formula 1. uh and then you know down into the top end of uh road cars as well but really for kind of track road cars and then gradually it’s trickled down and now you can get it on your you know reasonably high-end road car but also you can get it now on your SUV if you if you go to the right manufacturer. So it’s trickling down and probably the same would happen with bikes as well. Uh maybe it would start in a kind of racing application where it’s all controlled and the cost isn’t such a factor and then maybe gradually over the years, you know, if you’re buying a really high-end road bike, it would maybe be an option there. Probably the mountain side is a bit more difficult because of the damage um tolerance of these discs, but you never know. It could it could get there one day as well. But I wouldn’t be surprised if on the kind of top end road bikes it would arrive um before too long. So, on the face of things, it all kind of seems pretty good. Carbon brakes are lighter and they’ve got a far greater resistance to the buildup of heat and brake fade. But, as I’ve just found out, they do still have their difficulties and problems to overcome, especially if we were trying to use them out in the real world rather than the confines of a racing environment, which typically is far more controlled. It’s not to say it can’t be done, but it’s not going to be easy. Now, the area that concerns me the most is perhaps single brake application and performance in cold conditions. That said, materials and technologies and manufacturing processes are of course going to evolve and over time that could also help drive down the cost. As to whether I think we will ever see carbon fiber brakes used in a tour to France in the future, well, probably quite unlikely. And as do I think we’re ever going to see carbon fiber brakes supplied on high performance bikes that are sold to everyone and consumers and the public in general. Well, I feel like that’s almost certainly a solid no. You see, I believe until a big group set manufacturer really gets behind this technology or a brake specialist company can develop genuine alternative products that work in exactly the same conditions and environments and also integrate with all the existing brake components that we have. I feel like carbon fiber brakes are going to remain as a bit of a dream. And I’m still dreaming about the carbon fiber brake rotors that I saw at Urubby because as of yet, well, I’ve still not got my hands on any. But rest assured, if I do, and as and when I do, I’m going to make a video to show you guys all about them and let you know how they perform. But for now, well, I’m going to have to just make do with the budget AliExpress versions. Right to the hill. Okay, I’ve put off doing this for long enough. And for reference, this is what the rotor looks like with no braking having been done on it. So, um, see what it looks like after one descent. I’m a little bit apprehensive and nervous. Wish me luck. Here goes. See at the bottom. Oh, can’t clip in. It’s like a Matt Stevens moment. I got stuck. Ah, well, it’s noisy. [Music] [Applause] Well, I mean, I guess you heard me coming before you saw me. Okay, first descent done. Uh, what are my thoughts? Very squeaky. Performance pretty damn poor. Although, in fairness, uh, haven’t exactly bedded the brakes in, so we can we can forgive that. But take a look at this down here. It’s marked up quite a lot. I’m surprised how much marking and scoring there is on the rotor already. But, uh, one thing I should point out is, as you can see here, it says resin pad only, and these are resin pads, so I’m at least trying to be fair to it. Um, yeah. Okay, off we go. I didn’t die. It’s a good start. [Music] Well, I at least have faith I wasn’t going to run you over. Um, well, it’s getting a little bit quieter. The brake performance, it’s not really changing if I’m honest. And the brake coating is still, well, you can start to see some real shiny bits here. And I think this is probably where the coating is starting to wear off, which is slightly disappointing. Seeing as this was like £100, I’m already starting to feel like I’ve been slightly robbed. Um, only one way to find out. I can’t even say this. Back to the top. Okay, number three. So, I’m trying to like think about how I can portray this across everybody, right? So, if you’ve got used to riding any bike, you get used to the brake performance, so you know roughly what it translates to in terms of the pressure that you put on the brake lever. Now, I’ve got a good relationship with this bike. I know exactly what it feels like to ride. And right now I’m having to pull the front brake very very very hard compared to what I normally do, which is counterintuitive to what you would normally say with having resin pads fitted into your bike because normally resin pads have a real good initial bite to them. But so far I’m saying it’s not the case. And look at this. You can really see a lot of shiny silver, which is very disappointing. Uh, I’m not really sure what I was ever expecting buying a set of rotors off of AliExpress, but um, I’m going to say AliExpress knockoff budget carbon ceramic rotors. It’s a no for me. Yeah, I don’t think I need to go up and down the hill anymore to prove my point. But, um, yeah, there you go. Feel like I need to get a drink. Worn out. Let’s do a cafe. Okay, so what have I learned from this somewhat budget and very basic experiment? Well, it seems that the budget AliExpress pretend carbon fiber brake rotors are actually pretty damn rubbish. As I’ve explained, they’re noisy in terms of their squealing. Their performance is pretty damn poor. They don’t seem to have handled the heat any better than normal brake rotors. And when you were just braking lightly on them, they sound like they’re quite abrasive. So, I’m assuming over a long period of time, the brake pads aren’t going to last very long, too. There’s also the fact that they’re actually still expensive even though these are supposed to be the cheap budget knockoff version. So, get this right. There was just over £100 for that one brake rotor. And if I’m honest, I feel like I was absolutely robbed, especially when you take into account you could buy a pair of Dura Ace rotors for that price rather than just having one single rotor and I think they easily would outperform it. So, what is the big takeaway from this whole video? Well, it would appear that to me I think carbon brake rotors are going to remain something of a dream and an idea or perhaps a prototype component rather than something that is ever actually going to go mainstream. Yes, I know they’ve been successful in other industries and areas like aerospace and Formula 1, but I think in the terms of the cycling world, well, it falls into the category of lots of other components that are on your bike, where generally speaking, it’s not really a good idea to make them from carbon fiber or to make them as light as possible, as Ollie and Andrew Feather found out with that carbon fiber chain ring when Andrew Feather basically just snaps it immediately in half. But what do you think? Are carbon fiber or carbon ceramic brakes actually a good idea? And are they the future of cycling? Or are they just another motorsport product that doesn’t really translate into the world of cycling? Share your thoughts in the comments section down below. And as always, if you want to help support our channel, subscribe to GCN Tech and turn on your notifications. Right, I’m out of here. See you.