We find out all about Innsbruck in Austria, look at the Northern Snow Show and learn why ski company Peak Retreats is handing over ownership to its staff.
Host Iain Martin was joined by journalist Catherine Murphy; MD of The Snow Centre, Ian Brown; founder of the UK tour operator Peak Retreats, Xavier Schouller; and the company’s new MD Alison Willis.
Tirol sponsors The Ski Podcast
Tirol in Austria (https://www.tyrol.com/) is sponsors The Ski Podcast, which means that this winter we will find out more about some of the great destinations in Tirol, and how you can connect with the wonderful ‘feeling of life’ you can find there.
SHOW NOTES
Catherine joined us in Episode 232 (https://theskipodcast.com/resorts/tignes/232-skiing-in-montenegro-tignes-european-gay-ski-week/) to discuss the new Jandri 3S lift in Les 2 Alpes (1:00)
Miss SnowItAll, Rachael Oakes-Ash runs the Snowsbest.com (https://www.snowsbest.com/) website (6:00)
Robert Redford starred in ‘ Downhill Racer’ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz1oJjtPLFQ) in 1969 (7:30)
Chill Factore in Manchester and The Snow Centre in Hemel Hempstead are the same company (8:30)
The Northern Snow Show (https://www.northernsnowshow.com/) takes place in October at The Snow Centre Manchester (9:45)
Listeners to the podcast can get free tickets for the show here (https://theskipodcast.com/podcast/free-ticket-code-london-ski-show/) (13:00)
Iain visited Innsbruck in 2017 after a trip to Kuhtai (13:30)
There are many sites to see in Innsbruck (https://www.tyrol.com/destinations/innsbruck/sights-innsbruck) (14:00)
The most famous site is the Golden Roof (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldenes_Dachl) (14:45)
Catherine loved the Hofkirche (https://www.tyrol.com/destinations/innsbruck/sights-innsbruck/court-church) (15:45)
British architect Zaha Hadid designed the spectacular funicular stations in the city (https://www.zaha-hadid.com/architecture/nordpark-railway-stations/) (18:00)
Hadid also designed the Bergesil ski jump (https://www.innsbruck.info/en/sightseeing/i/bergisel-ski-jump.html) (19:15)
Rob Rees reported in Episode XX on the ‘Four Hills Ski Jumping Competiiton’ (21:15)
Innsbruck serves 12 ski areas (https://www.innsbruck.info/en/skiing/ski-resorts.html) (21:20)
You can go night skiing in Kuhtai (https://www.kuehtai.info/night-skiing) (22:00)
Find out about the ‘SKI plus CITY Pass’ (https://www.innsbruck.info/en/skiing/ski-plus-city-pass.html) (23:00)
Find out about Axamer Lizum (https://www.axamer-lizum.at/en/welcome-to-the-axamer-lizum-1-1.html) (24:00)
Nordkette ski area (https://nordkette.com/en/) is immediately above Innsbruck, with amazing views (24:30)
Peak Retreats are becoming the only UK ski company to be employee-owned (https://www.peakretreats.co.uk/blog/archive/peak-retreats-is-now-employee-owned) (25:30)
The company was set up in 2002 (27:00)
The decision to pass on the company to the employees rather than sell it (29:30)
Listen to ‘ The Rise and Fall of Bladon Lines’ (https://theskipodcast.com/podcast/rise-fall-bladon-lines/) (31:00)
Find out about the Alpe d’Huez bike challenge (https://www.peakretreats.co.uk/summer/holiday-types/types/alpe-dhuez-cycling-challenge) (35:00)
Feedback (36:00)
I always enjoy listener feedback and I love to hear what you think about the show. You can leave a comment on Spotify, Instagram or Facebook – our handle is @theskipodcast – or drop me an email to theskipodcast@gmail.com (mailto:theskipodcast@gmail.com)
Colin Slater: “Just discovered the podcast and listened to loads now, loved the Bladon Lines one (https://theskipodcast.com/podcast/rise-fall-bladon-lines/) !”
Glenn Westrup: “I’ve really enjoyed Rachel’s snow reports from Australia and NZ”
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Episode link:…
[Music] [Applause] Welcome to episode 257 of the Ski Podcast and thanks for joining us, listener. Today we’re going to be discovering what you can expect from a visit to Insborrook in Austria. Plus, we find out more about the Northern Snow Show and learn why one ski company is handing over ownership to its staff. We also have snow reports from down under your feedback. And for the first time this winter, I’m delighted to introduce Terrell in Austria as our official sponsor. And as regular listeners will know, the podcast takes me a huge amount of time to produce. So I really appreciate this support from Terroll. There are over 80 resorts there. Last winter they welcomed over six million skiers and our partnership means that we’re going to have the opportunity to find out more about some of the great destinations in Troll and how you can connect with the feeling of life that you can find there. Now, my name is Ian Martin. I’m joined by four guests in the studio today. So, it’s definitely a full house. Firstly, I’m delighted to welcome back Irish journalist Katherine Murphy for what I think is her sixth appearance on the show. She last joined us in episode 232 when she gave us an insight into the new John Dre 3sl lift in ladies out. Hi Katherine, how are you? Hi Ian. Morning from Dublin. Sunny cold Dublin. Right. Well sunny would be good. It’s not very nice out of my window. We don’t always catch you in Dublin. You’re often traveling away overseas. Have you been away recently? Um I was over in back to the Alps a little bit during the summer. I was in La Rosier. I was in Cerse Valley and I was in Verbier. I have a few trips coming up now this weekend back to the Alps. Wow. Well, that’s that’s not bad. Ski season hasn’t even started yet. Let me introduce my other guests. So, joining us today for what I think might be his third time on the podcast is managing director of Indoor Snow Slope, the Snow Center, Ian Brown. Hi, Ian. How are you? Yeah, I’m very well, thank you. How are you doing? I’m good. Whereabouts are you today? I’m having a rare day working from home today. There’s a lot to do with prepping for winter season for both sides. So, just a chance to catch up with uh some of the workload and some of the tasks to complete uh ahead of uh the launch of winter season. Well, we’re going to be discussing some of those tasks a little bit later on. But finally, I’m going to introduce my two first timers to the show today. Founder of UK tour operator Pete Retreats, Zavier Schuler, and the company’s new managing director Allison Willis. Hi, Allison. How are you? Very good, thank you. Yes. Where abouts are you? Uh so I’m in our offices on the south coast in Portsmouth and it is quite a gray day but the winds dropped so my cycle in this morning was very pleasant. Yeah I am also further along the south coast and yeah it’s good that the wind has dropped. It was ridiculously blowy earlier on this week. I was running into a 50 mph wind then turning around and feeling like Mo Farah on the way back uh earlier this week. Zavier, what about yourself? Where are you? Yeah, good morning. Uh I’m uh working from home on the aisle of white uh today. So it’s uh it’s still it’s still pretty windy, but it’s always windy on the aisle of white. Right. A question I always like to ask my guests to start off with is when did you ski or snowboard last? Uh Katherine, you’ve been out the Alps in the summer. Were you skiing on any of those or when were you last on snow? No, my last time on snow was the first week of April in Kerscheville. Beautiful. Okay, Ian, what about yourself? I perhaps you were last on snow in one of your own venues. Yeah, in in terms of the actual outs, it was the uh snow camp uh three valleys event at the end of April which was fantastic. And yes, of course, I’ve had a couple of uh practice sessions both in Manchester and Heml over the summer just to try and keep those legs moving. I’ve had several guests where their last skiing was the snow camp event in Valter. I guess it happened towards the end of the season, but evidently it was a big event. And I’m not sure if we’re going to touch on this later, but the snow center in Heml Hemstead is one of the areas that snow camp used quite a lot. Yeah, both both centers, Ian, so Manchester and Heml, they run their apprentice programs out of both our sites. Have done for many years, very successful and we’re very happy to be partners with them. It’s a great charity. Oh, well, I I think I mentioned before, regular listeners will know the last time I skied was when I was skiing around all of the UK’s snow domes in a single day. That included skiing at the snow center and Chill Factory as well. What about yourself, Allison? When were you last on snow? My last time on snow was a team trip to teen, which takes place, we all tried to get as many of the team as possible out to the Alps at the end of the season. So, we were in teen towards the end of April and had a fantastic time. Great snow. Really nice to, you know, be out there with all the team experiencing living what we sell our clients the rest of the season. Yeah. Difficult when you work in the ski industry and you’re selling holidays to find the opportunity to get everyone away during the winter. Zavier, were you on that trip as well? Was that your last skiing? I was indeed. Normally I like to uh end the season in uh in either Valas or Shaman Arantier in early May. This year I was also uh on the same trip as Allison at the uh at the very end of uh April in Tenia. That’s interesting you mentioned there about Groonte Jontier closing because I’m not sure I’ve mentioned this on the podcast yet, but next winter I’m going to be spending a couple of months out in Shamine and uh I will be there for the the final day. I’ve I’ve kind of read about it a bunch of times. I’m hoping to go up there. I I don’t think I’ll be doing uh attempting to ski across the water, which is one of the uh one of the things they do. Have you ever tried that or watch that? I’ve seen that in teen and my my son has done it on a snowboard, but uh it’s not for me. Yeah, I don’t think it’ll be for me either unless it’s an incredibly warm day. Right. Well, there is skiing going on around the world right now thanks to some great snowfall. The snow season down under could go on for another month. Let’s have a listen to the latest update from Miss Snow or Rachel Oaks Ash from snowsbest.com. Well, it really does feel Ian as though the season is wrapping itself up in Australia and New Zealand with torrential rain in the past week, but that was followed by predictable snow in both countries ski resorts. Now, according to some sources, New Zealand has had its best ski days of the season in the past couple of days. And there’s more on the way. Aussie resorts are holding out for around anything from 5 to 10 or 10 to 20 cm this coming weekend. Whether it will be rain or snow, slush or sleep, we’re yet to find out how Oola decides to turn up. While Queenstown is also hoping for more topups on Sunday that could bring a good dumpage to the likes of Treble Cone. You know the season is ending when pawn schemes come to play with resorts enjoying fancy dress and springtime parties. The stomping ground at Threadbo has now packed up and they’ve headed to Switzerland where the world’s best will be training for big air slope style and halfpipe ahead of the Levveniah Winter Olympics in February. And now Australia’s much lorded mogul skiers will be making their way to Finland for the training camp while the equally lorded aerial skiers are currently training in China. So it’s all eyes on the Northern Hemisphere. We’re recording this today on Wednesday the 17th of September. I read in the news this morning that Robert Redford, the actor, died. I think possibly listeners may be familiar with a movie that he made in 1969, which called Downhill Racer. To my mind, that is the best movie ever that’s been made about skiing. And I just wanted to mention it. You can look it up in various places and watch it online. It’s extremely good in terms of the footage it includes. It incorporates real world cup footage from races and then on location in Kitsu, Stanton, Wingan, Grindelval and Mijv. So have a look for that that one listeners if you want to see a great Robert Redford movie. Now last week in episode 256 we covered the London snow show. But while around twothirds of our listeners are in the UK I recognize that not everyone is in reach of London. And the good news is there’s also a northern snow show as well taking place at the Chill Factory indoor snow slope next month. Now I wanted to let listeners know a little bit more about it. No better than Ian who’s joined us today. For context, listeners might not realize that Chill Factory in Manchester and the Snow Center in the Heml Hemstead are both part of the same company. And in fact, why don’t we just start with that because I think there’s a rebranding process going on, isn’t there? Chill Factory may not be Chill Factory for much longer. Is that right, Ian? Well, as of yesterday, Ian, it became uh Snow Center Manchester. You know, we joined forces back in March 21 at the end of lockdown. And we spent four years, two good businesses becoming one even better business together, uh sharing best practice, sharing our culture, sharing our philosophy. And it it was just a natural progression uh with the rebrand. And it’s not just a rebrand as in Snow Center, but we’ve also updated the Snow Center logo as at in Heml as well. So guests will see at both sites a new image and a new brand. I’m going to say I obviously deliberately invited you on because I knew that that rebrand was officially happening yesterday, but that’s just a a lucky uh accident. Interesting. Then I can see advantages to having the same brand. And I think if anyone has seen previously Chill Factory and it has as you drive past it on the motorway, it’s so prominent, you know, it really does stand out. Snow Center Manchester then is going to be hosting the Northern Snow Show. So I wondered if you could just give us some of the basics. This is year two. You know we did it last year for the first time hosting a event in the north and a real leap of faith uh in hosting such events and a big thanks to all the brands and guests who came last year. Overwhelming success really positive feedback from guests who attended and in particular the brands. So here we go year two. It’s on the 4th and 5th of October. 10il 6 on the Saturday 10 till 4 on the Sunday and we’ve got over 50 snow sports brands represented. In effect, we’ve sold out all the space that we have and we have everything from taster sessions happening on the slope. You can take equipment out for taster sessions. We’re doing special offers on lift passes and we have retail brands, holiday brands, and equipment brands. So, uh, a real mix for the whole weekend. One thing that you haven’t mentioned there is that my understanding is that Dave Rying is going to be there at the beginning of the show opening it and available for autographs. Is that right? Absolutely. He’s opening the show also doing coaching sessions and he’ll be part of the fireside chats uh over the weekend as well. So people can come and meet him and hear some of his stories. He’s doing coaching sessions. How’s that going to work? Will you have to book in in advance? Is there still space for that? I’d love to be coached by Dave Ryden. Yeah, we’ve got different coaches out there. We’ve got Dave Rying, we’ve got Jamie Nichols, we’ve got Warren Smith. Um, and we’ve got our two uh residents in-house head head of snow sports in Peak Gillespie uh for ski and Kev Edwards for snowboard. So, there’s an array of activities for guests to come along and participate on the slopes. Cool. That sounds great. Regular listeners will know Warren Smith recently re-released the interview I did with him. And Jamie Nichols is an ex Olympian snowboarder as well. What about getting in then? Do you What’s the cost for this? Because normally if you go along, you got to pay to get on the slope. So, how does it work for the Northern Snow Show? Well, I’m pleased to say it’s actually free to attend. So, there’s no cost to come to the event. We do have 20 premium tickets. Uh you receive a goodie bag because a number of uh the brands have put some products together. So, we can give away goodie bags. Uh it’ll also give you a voucher to spend in snow centers. Uh, and also we’re donating 10% of those ticket sales to Snow Camp and DSUK as our charity partners. In terms of the slope, it’s we’re doing special office. There’s £25 for a 1-hour lift pass or 39 for two and that gives you access to the brands on the slope and then you can test equipment uh out out on the real snow. You know, it sounds great. I know it’s a second year like last year really just an experiment. Obviously went well. Is there like a capacity issue? You must have like a limited number of tickets that you can sell. It’s several hundred can can come in at any one time. Obviously, we’ve got the streets up in Manchester and there’ll be a lot of brands out on the street. You can we can have a couple of hundred out on the slope. So, you know, we are expecting a big turnout, but given the space that we have, we think it will just create a fantastic vibe right across the center. Oh, well, I look forward to hearing how that goes on. I don’t know that I’m going to be able to make it this year, but hopefully it sounds like it’s going to be going ahead next year as well. That’s brilliant, Ian. Thank you very much for updating us on that and the uh rebranding for the Snow Center as well. Just back to the London uh show for a minute. That’s about four weeks away now. Just want to remind listeners, they can check on the latest news and get a free ticket code by taking the link in the show notes. I’ve already mentioned that our equipment expert Al Morgan and I will be covering the best of this year’s new kit on Saturday morning at the show. You can get ahead of that by making sure you listen to next week’s episode when Al and I will be looking at the best new skis for 2026. Right, let’s move on to Austria and specifically Insrook, capital of Terroll, sponsors of the Ski Podcast this winter. I went to Insbrook in 2017. I had to look it up. That was on the way back from a trip to Coutai, which is about 40 minutes away from Insbrook itself. Obviously, you could take a city break there, but I think it’s a great way to top and tail a ski trip. Katherine, when were you in Insburgh? I was last there in January 2024, Ian. So, not not too long ago. So, was that on before or after a ski trip or were you specifically just going to look at Insrook itself? I was there to see Ins. So, to experience the whole city and ski, you know, unique selling point that that Insrook offers. So therefore talking about the city itself then and thinking about that what kind of stands out to you about Insborrook as a destination. I mean it’s it’s the very center of Europe isn’t it? It’s very close to the German Italian borders and a couple of hours away from Salsburg, Vienna, Verona. It’s a gateway to the Alps and it’s a medieval city. It’s just bursting with history. You know emperors and empresses of the Hapsburg Empire. It was the former capital of Austria, Europe, and the Roman Empire back in the uh Middle Ages. So, just teeing with history and historical sites and a small, easily walkable city. Well, I was there with my kids and so just doing the maths. That was eight years ago, so probably about 10 at the time. They were less keen on seeing some of the museums and some of the history that’s there. Um, I guess the most famous thing we saw, which was more kind of appealing to them, was the the golden roof, which I don’t think is actually gold at all, is it? They’re they’re like copper tiles, but you know, you can see that from the outside. You do. I mean, that the golden roof, they’re gilded copper shingles, and it’s not actually a massive roof. It’s quite a small section of a roof. It basically is a power symbol of power for emperor Maxmillian I who was the the ruler of the Hapsburg and Roman empires back in the um 1500s if I’ve got that right. It is the most popular attraction in the city. Personally not my favorite. My favorite I think I’ve told you before is the Hoof Kirk which is the royal court church and it’s the senotap or the the tomb of um Maxmillian the first. He’s not actually buried there, but it’s an incredible place to visit. Everything we’re talking about the the 28 bronze statues that were designed as funeral. This is very jolly talking escorts for the emperor. But it’s just the most incredible place. I’m not religious, but I sat through a mass in German just to be in the presence of these bronze statues. Incredible place. And if you’re interested in that kind of thing, give yourself lots of time to visit and to study the statues. Yeah, I agree with you. I certainly remember that. And you know, one of these little frustrations of being with younger children, it wasn’t quite within their attention span because, as you say, they’re these huge bronze figures. I didn’t actually I mean, I guess it’s obvious that it would be the sort of place where there would be a mass. When I was there, it felt more like a like a a tourist attraction that you would visit, per se. But, yeah, they’re very detailed. And then each of the the guards that are standing around uh have a bunch of information about who inspired them including a number of women who were part of his life as well. Yeah. Yeah. Basically the statues represent his relatives as ancestors and his role models. So the legendary King Arthur is there. His father is represented and his daughter Margaret is represented. Um I’m not sure who the the other seven female statues are. There’s a mass every day in the church. probably since you’ve been there, Ian, they’ve introduced a very interesting educational interactive introduction to the church, which is actually very good fun for children and for families. So that’s very appealing. I think what I find interesting is during World War II, the statues were removed from the church and hidden in mountain caves. And some local insukers in their 80s still remember those statues being brought back into the city when when the war had ended. Uh relatively unscathed, and they’re just they’re very important. um site historical site within Europe. I did not know that. That’s really that’s really interesting. I think one thing that you know was very interesting to me about Insbrook and certainly you know appealed for the whole family is that okay you have that ancient uh history but there’s a real mix with the modern as well. There’s a lot of very stylish modern buildings in the city and particularly um well some of them are designed by a British architect Zaha Hadid. The finicular that goes up in the Nordketta direction. Some of those finicular stations are really outstanding. Yeah. I mean Congress station as you say was designed by Hadid and who she’s also the designer behind the jump tower and the Berg Bergiesel ski jumping station which we’ll talk about in a little while. But yeah, it’s quite incredible. I mean, her design of of the finicular station in Insbrook is based on a glacier and is meant to flow like a glacier and it’s yeah, it’s very contemporary and that is the beauty of, as you say, the mix of ancient and modern insbrook that you can be in the city center or in the old town, have your breakfast and a morning coffee and then step into Congress station on a finicular up towards North Ketu. There’s obviously a reason why I invited you on because you give me a lot of information that either I never learned to at the time or I’ve completely forgotten, but now you say it was inspired by Glassia. It kind of makes sense. And listeners, I I’ll put a link in the show notes so you can have a look at this and get a real uh sense of it. You mentioned the ski jump that’s also designed by her and that’s another very spectacular modern building. I haven’t been there. Did you go to that at all? I’ve been twice. I’ve been in summer and winter. So it’s incredible. The jump tower designed by Hadid is nicknamed the cobra because of the shape of it and it’s when you’re downtown Insbrook, it’s visible from the city center which is in a very subtle nice way. So it’s iconic. And then when you go up to I think even if you’re not a a ski jumpy or ski fan going up to the stadium, you might be by the time you leave. It’s just fascinating. You got to book early. You can do breakfast at the stadium. There’s fabulous views of Insburgh City first of all and the breakfast is a feast and then if you’re part of a group you can book an experience where you get to meet uh a ski jumper. We met a former pro called Thomas Hoffer lovely guy in his late 20s and you get to sit on the tremble bank which is where the athletes sit obviously before they jump and as someone who has a fear of heights that was quite a challenge for me. It’s really a spectacular thing to do. And interestingly, Ian, as the as the athletes are jumping, there’s a cemetery right in front of the stage. So, they’re actually jumping towards the cemetery. I’m full of the joys of of living today. Sorry. Can just track back. So, the bit that you went out to, which you described just then as the tremble bank, is that a translation or is that how you feel when you’re an English speaker sitting on the top there? It’s it’s absolutely how I felt. Anyway, other people in the group didn’t seem to have any problems. Um it’s it’s literally a bench that you’re you’re clipped in, you’re harnessed, you’re completely safe, but you still have that feeling of height and altitude and if you have a fear of heights, it’s a little bit uncomfortable. And you know, people were asking us to turn around, have your photograph taken, and that was quite challenging for me. But really really fascinating to talk to Thomas about everything involved with ski jumping with their diet with the training with the visualization techni techniques that they use before jumping just really fascinating and well worth a visit. They’ve hosted Olympic events there. They’ve had a papal visit just to continue with the religious theme. Actually um Rob Ree has reported for us before about the four mountains competition and one of the one of those takes place there. So I think I’ll put a link to that in the show notes as well. And what about the ski areas then? I was in Kai that’s about 40 minutes from Minsbrook. So therefore short transfer it’s high is the reason I went there about 2,000 meters. And again I was with the kids. We actually went there for the jump. They were filming the jump. It was the last series that ever took place. Very exciting. I got to meet people like Bradley Wiggins and Lewis Smith and Deina McCall and others. We got into the chalet and featured briefly on TV which was very exciting for the kids. But you know, Kai, I really enjoyed skiing there. The highlight again for for them was night skiing. Opens up uh in the evening. Quite a big area, quite a big descent that you can do night skiing. Did Did you go up to Coutai at all? I did. We spent a morning skiing Coutai. And I think that the two standout things for me um we had a very young ski instructor. Our ski instructor was still in school. was 18 years old and while we were having lunch we sat there’s a dam and we sat and watched people skiing along the dam. I don’t know how that’s possible but they were doing it. I really enjoyed Coutai and then some of our group went to boggling in Coutai. Myself and a friend decided to take a little short uh ski bus ride down to an area that’s linked to it which is my pronunciation would be terrible. It’s Hokut. And that was a nice another small familyfriendly treelined um ski area which was was really nice. Of course, the unique selling point with Insbrook, unique in the world, I believe uh ski plus city pass by Insbrook, I think is the correct uh title, which gives people unlimited access to 12 ski resorts, plus access to the bike glacier, but also oneoff uh visit access to 23 attractions within the city of Insbrook. So, it’s it’s quite unique. I think it might be called the Ski Plus City Pass. I’m not 100% sure, but it covers all of those areas, the 12 areas, including Stubby that you mentioned where they have a glacia that’s about 40 minutes away. I’ll put a link to that in the show notes. A lot of those ski areas are very very near to Insbor. That’s why this kind of city ski combination works quite well. I think you’ve been to and neither of us are sure of the pronunciation, but it’s Aximalism. Yeah, Axamuritzum. I listened to the pronunciation today. Yeah, basically six six of the resorts are in and around Insborrook. We visited North Kett but didn’t ski there. I’ve skied in Mutaram which is probably the closest. Axamar Liten which is about 20 km only from the city and then Coutai. All familyfriendly ski areas. Mutra Alam more beginners and children but similarism. Yeah. Which we were talking about this has I think it’s 40 km of of pasted runs. The day we skied there, we kind of claggy, cloudy, dampy weather, but it has a freestyle area. It’s got the it’s snow park, I think it’s called the golden roof park, which is a reference obviously to the Golden Roof at Insbrook. And it also has a vast a pretty big free ride area, which I didn’t get to sample unfortunately, but that’s what that area is known for. Yeah. And that’s only 15 minutes away. Nordketta that you mentioned if you took that finicular we talked about the designs of the stations up and then you get a cable car Nordketer it’s immediately above again I went up there I didn’t ski there because it’s that’s more kind of testing there are some basic slopes up there but some of the shots that I’ve seen you know when the snow is good I’ve talked to people who’ve been based in Brook and you can ski right down to the bottom and some amazing shots of people skiing with the city in in the background. Exactly. I think a lot of people take that, you know, the finicular and cable car. And by the way, the the whole ride up is accessible for wheelchair users or reduced mobility um visitors. So, a lot of people go up just to have lunch and to enjoy the the great views over the city. Yeah. My what I’ve been told is that North Ketta is good for beginners, but then it gets into steeper off-piece or ski touring terrain. Yeah. Well, that would be the appeal to me down the track when I go out there. That’s that’s brilliant, Katherine. Thank you very much for that. Um, I’m going to put a link to a bunch of those things that Katherine mentioned in the show notes, but if it’s okay, I’m going to turn to Zavier and Allison just now. And we touched on this earlier, uh, but I mentioned 256. And one of the most interesting conversations I had at ski launch was about Pete Retreat’s decision to become the only UK ski company to be employee owned. Senior management are stepping up as directors. Allison, I think you’re going to become managing director and I would like to ask you about that new setup. But before that, Zavier, I wondered if you could give us some background to the company. I think you set up Pete Retreat with your co-founder in 2002 or was it earlier than that? Yeah, that’s right, Ian. Uh, it was 2002 when my co-founder Natalie, we launched the business. At the time, both of us were into tour operating. and Natie was into skiing, so managing a French tour operator that was based in UK and I was in a more sort of summer kind of tour operating. And what we’ noticed at the time was that all the uh all the UK tour operators were featuring about, you know, like a dozen dozen resorts and and that was it. I I’ve been lucky enough to have skied in France since the age of sort of five. My my uh my father was in education so quite quite a bit of spare time holidays and you know we would we would uh we were lucky to go um as children you know like three three times a year skiing in France and we would go to different resorts every time and I’ve been so many resorts you know in in France I knew that you know there was something like yeah like 300 resorts and we couldn’t understand why um you know nobody was featuring a lot of these uh smaller resorts. uh and just the sort of dozen dozen big resorts. You know, we start to do a bit of uh investigating and uh we had friends in other tour operators and uh they all said to us uh total waste of time, you know, nobody’s interested in those resorts. We’ve tried uh uh but we thought, no, no, I mean, it’s definitely something there. And what we knew at the time was that some of these smaller resorts which were more traditional uh where French people were going were becoming linked to major ski areas. Uh so for example if you take uh resorts like Mario Samaro in the uh the grammar ski area. all the operators would feature Flynn, but nobody had heard about Sam or, you know, Lake Ar. And we thought, well, that that’s a great opportunity, you know, to bring sort of new resorts to the UK market with a a different perspective, more traditional villages, but still with access to big skier. At first, it was it was quite difficult because uh I sold my house to finance the the business. Uh so, it was big massive risk there. You know, I gave ourselves sort of two years. I said well if we don’t meet in two years you know we’ll have to try something else but uh it took off very very quickly I think it was just uh the right time as well people people wanted something different within one year uh we were already sort of uh on a good trajectory I think that shows that from an entrepreneurial point of view that there’s no risk no reward you know you took a gamble there and it paid off from your instinct for the market I mean you mentioned Samuin I mean these days there’s a club med I think over in Samowind There are other resorts that have been included into the larger ski areas and I think anticipating the market has obviously been a real key point for you. The company’s become very successful. I think it’s grown hugely. I think you probably have a very loyal customer base and I noticed as well that you’re regular winner of awards. Indeed. Yeah. Know we we’ve uh we’ve won the best key company from the the Telegraph which was voted by the readers for the the third time now. So, so it’s something we’re, you know, extremely pleased about and u, you know, as you said, we’ve the business, uh, you know, has grown, you know, a lot from these early days and we’ve broaden the the results we feature. So, after 20 years of running the business, I guess like maybe Logan Roy or King at some point thoughts turned to succession. For some people that means selling the company. So, what led you to decide to pass on the company to the employees rather than sell it? you know we we came to the sort of age where we did think about succession you know plans we’re not in a hurry but we thought well within the next 10 years you know would like to do something else maybe uh I mean one of the obvious options was to sell the business and we we were approached by a number of companies to sell the business and uh we could have probably maximized the amount of money we could have made you know by selling the business to a bigger group but um we’re very fortunate so pries that we’ve had extremely loyal team. Almost 50% of the staff been with us nearly like pretty much 10 years. And the the the whole spirit of Pick Treats, you know, is uh is the team, you know, that that’s what made the the company successful. And what we didn’t want was for the the company to u you know, become absorbed in a in a bigger group and to lose kind of ethos. And that that that’s why um you know, we decided to to look at alternatives. Yeah, that’s that’s interesting. Having been through the process of uh you know selling a company uh you know back uh when I sold natives in the early 2000s it was interesting to see how despite uh the efforts I made to try and keep the culture of the company the same it changed uh very quickly and you know actually isn’t in business anymore. And if listeners have listened to episode, I think it’s 252, the Blade and Line story, rise and fall of Bladen Lines, then you know, you’ve got a company there that was the largest uh ski company in Britain that didn’t exist after it got bought. So sometimes, you know, these things can change. But maybe Allison, I could bring the conversation on to you. I wonder if you could explain to us then exactly what has changed. How does uh an employeeowned company work? So yeah, the employee ownership model means that everything is basically held collectively on behalf of the employees. So it’s like there’s a lot of companies that have gone down this route. Most famously, I think John Lewis, which is the longest established employee owned company in the UK, but recently or more recently people like Richard Sounds, uh Go a Riverford Organic Farmers. There’s a lot of companies. I think there’s over 2,400 companies now that are employee owned in the UK. And the reason is because it, as Sia said, it’s a really positive way to ensure succession doesn’t, you know, lose the company, its culture and its ethos. And I think I’ve read studies that show it’s beneficial for both employees and the business because you end up with better productivity. Absolutely. Yeah. There’s there’s studies that say that employee owned businesses are everyone’s more productive because everyone’s more engaged because everyone has a stake in the business. And also I think there’s um evidence that employee owned businesses can make more socially conscious, environmentally conscious, sustainable and ethical decisions because they are not looking at making profit for faceless investors, they’re looking at um benefiting the employees in the long term. And I think although 0.1% of the UK workforce work in employee owned businesses, it contributes 0.8% to the to the economy. So it’s still a small business but it’s out outsized compared to the amount of work the workforce that’s in it. Okay. And you mentioned profit there. I mean ultimately how will you decide between you whether to reinvest profits or to distribute them amongst the employees. I think because we’re all in it for the long term. So we are here not to take money out of the business but to invest in the business. That’s going to be a key driver in our decision- making. So we anticipate, you know, we’ll be investing in new product, in new technology. Um because as a team, we want to we want to make the business sustainable in the long term and just keep growing. So I think that’s why in reinvestment is going to be the the core of what we do because it’s not just about making profit. It’s about investing to create the ski holidays that are right for our clients um and in resorts and in with the sort of ethos that we’re known for. And uh I believe when I was researching this there is an organization which brings together lots of the employee owned companies so you can liaz with them to work on best practice. Yeah the employee ownership association is a fantastic resource. So they did a podcast actually that I’ve listened to every single episode of um it’s got real life stories from other employee owned businesses and one of the things I think that they’ve all said that came across really clearly is it’s not something that happens overnight. you you become employee owned but you have to work at it. It’s like anything you have to basically kind of instill that maximize the employee v voice and instill that open culture into the business. You know we are an open business and we the team as they have been very loyal for a long time. We’ve got a lot of established people who’ve been with us a long time. So it’s it’s easier to do that but it’s still kind of changing that mentality to think of yourself as an employee owner rather than just an employee. It’ll be really interesting to see how that progresses. And um Zavia, I happen to know that you spend a lot of your time cycling. So, will that allow you to spend even more time out on the road? Yes, definitely. But I’m still staying with the business, not in a management capacity anymore, but I’ll be helping the the business with a number of things, number of projects for, you know, number of years. I mean, what one thing we’ve set up, for example, is a a new cycling challenge to run in Alpu next June. The idea being you know everyone knows abu you know very famous ois ski resort but it’s also the most mythical it’s kind of legendary climb used by to France cyclist. Our idea is that we set up this challenge where people will be able to have a go at going up and down the uh 13 km climb as many time as they can in one day. You’re talking about 1100 m of elevation each time you go up. So, it’s it’s uh it’s quite a big uh big challenge. I think most people would be happy just to do it once. I’ve cycled up there a couple of times myself, although both times were actually as part of a triathlon which they do over there in the summer. So, you you swim then you cycle up to out and you do a run at the top. But I will put a link to that in the show notes as well. Cool. Well, that’s brilliant Allison and Zavier and thanks for sharing that really interesting story. We’re just going to move towards the close now. I always enjoy listener feedback. Love to hear what you think about the show. You can leave me a comment on Spotify, Instagram or Facebook. Our handle is skiodcast or you can drop me an email to the [email protected]. Colin Slater sent me a message saying, “Just discovered the podcast and listen to loads of them now. Love the blade lines one.” He also mentions he now works on the ski patrol at Glen Co. and he has requested a Scotland feature which is a great idea and we’ll try and fit one of those in before the season starts. and Glenn Wester said, “I’ve really enjoyed Rachel’s snow reports from Australia and New Zealand, and I’ll second that. They are extremely good and very detailed.” There are now 272 episodes of the Ski Podcast to catch up with and 128 of those were listened to in the last week. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, why not go to skipodcast.com, have a search around the tags and categories, and you’re bound to find something you will want to listen to as well. Uh in the last week around 60% of our listeners were in the UK around 15% in the states and everyone else spread as far and wide as India, Brazil and Azabjan. You can follow me at Skipedia and the podcast at the ski podcast. You can follow us on WhatsApp for exclusive material released ahead of each podcast. Look in the show notes for that link. And if you enjoyed this episode and would like to help the podcast, there are three things you can do. You can follow us or subscribe so you never miss an episode. You can give us a review on Apple Podcasts or leave a comment on Spotify. And if you’re booking Ski Highire this winter, don’t forget you can help Ski Podcast and save yourself some money on your ski higher by using the code ski podcast when you book at inport.com. You’ll get a guaranteed additional discount or simply take the link in the show notes for your discount to be automatically applied. Right, I would like to thank my guest from today. Now, Ian has actually left us already had to go on to call with Dave Riding, but Katherine, thank you very much for joining us. Thanks, Ian. Thanks for having me. Hopefully we’ll have you on the show again this winter when you cover some of your many trips. Allison, thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thanks for having us. And Zavier, thank you very much as well. Thank you again. Enjoyed being on the Ski podcast. G final listener, thank you for joining us wherever in the world you’re listening right now. And until next time, goodbye. [Music]
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I have a love for @TheSnowCentreHH where I learnt to ski and go every fortnight to progress