Welcome back to another episode of Inside the Playbook.
Ever wondered what it’s like to be sponsored and work with Red Bull? That’s a reality for young Australian, Luke Tuckwell!
Luke is living in Spain and riding for the Red Bull-Bora-Hansgrohe U/23 Team. Luke made the jump to Europe when he was still in Year 12 and won his first race in Europe, shocking the European circuit. Luke has recently wore the coveted Maglia Rosa in the Giro D’Italia Next Gen in 2025. We chat about standing at the top of the podium and real experiences out on the road throughout the stages!
I hope you’ve enjoyed this podcast with Luke! Subscribe to The Sports Playbook
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_sportsplaybook/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@the_sports_playbook
The Sports Playbook Website: https://www.thesportsplaybookmedia.com.au/
[Music] Welcome back to the Sports Playbook. If you’re new here, follow us on Spotify or on our YouTube channel. We’ve got another special episode today. We have Luke Tuckwell, and it’s actually our first cycling episode. So, Luke, I’d love to welcome you to the podcast. Thank you so much for jumping on. Thanks, mate. Thank you for having me. It’s uh it’s nice to be here. 100%. I can see the the jerseys in the background. I’m sure we’ll uh get into that little little bit later in this conversation. Yeah, definitely. I hope so. 100%. Well, Luke, just to open things up, I’m going to actually throw some this or that questions at you. You You ready for it? Okay. Yeah, go for it. All right. Tomato sauce in or out of the fridge? In the fridge? Yeah. Good stuff. Yeah. Summer or winter? Summer. I if you asked me 10 years ago, I would have said winter for some reason, but now it’s definitely summer. Is that being in Europe or is that I think I think it’s now a European thing. It’s just I for the last four years, I’ve only actually had summers. So, I think I’ve just become used to summers now. So, it’s beautiful. It’s great. Cats or dogs? Dogs. That’s just If you say cats, there’s something wrong with you. Yeah. Yet to come across a cat person, but I’ll I’ll let you know when that comes through. Okay, good. Sleep in or an AVO nap? Sleep in. Yeah, good start. For sure. Ar naps, it stuffs up the rest of the day. Like you have a nap and then it’s like the next 30 minutes after you wake up, you’re like you just question your life decision. So sleep in for sure. It’s a steep descent, isn’t it? Yeah. And then last one, mountain climb or a time trial? Mountain climb for sure. Very good. I feel like we’re going to have to unpack that a little bit later. Yeah, definitely. There might be a few people going, “What the hell are they talking about?” Worrying wise, there must be something going on, right? Yeah, exactly. Well, Luke, I really appreciate it, but I’d love to give, I guess, viewers a bit of an understanding as to your background, where’d you grow up, and what that kind of setup looked like for you. So, you able to chat to us about Yeah. where you grew up and what that looked like for you. Yeah, I was I was born in Maji. Um, that’s where my parents my parents are both from Sydney and then they moved to Maji around 2000. Um, and they were working there. Um, and then my sister and I were both born there. And then when we were when I was three, we moved to Orange in New South Wales and that’s where we still live. Well, that’s where my parents still live and my sister. Um, and yeah, I was all I can remember was like all I wanted to do was ride a bike. Like to be honest, my there’s no real track record of cycling in the family. Um, which is pretty uncommon thing. It’s kind of a sport that especially in Australia, you really only get into because of your parents. um if your one of your parents had done the sport previously when they were younger, you kind of naturally would follow that progression. But yeah, I that didn’t exist in my family. Um dad like watching the tour to France like kind of a lot of Aussies do is the month of July they will watch the race but that’s kind of the only bike race in the world that they know that happens. Um, but yeah, I kind of I think 5 years old, I said to I said to mom and dad, I want to I want to go to the shops in Paris, which is where the last day of the tour to France finishes. Um, when I was eight, I got to go there, which was is still like a life highlight for me. Um, and yeah, I I I played soccer as well until I was I was 12 and then it got to the point where it was like, right, kind of got to pick one or the other. Um, and yeah, I I I went with cycling and that’s what I’ve stuck at for the last what am I just turned 21. So I’ve kind of I’ve been I’ve been racing for I think this is my 12th year of racing already. So I’ve been I think I started when I was about nine. So yeah, it’s kind of something that really only that’s the only thing I know basically. So yeah, 100%. What would um do you remember your very first time that you I guess jumped onto a bike and what that kind of feeling was like? Do you remember that? I don’t actually. You don’t? I actually don’t remember. Um my parents would take me to Ba’ist, uh which is only 40 minutes down the road. Um because Orange didn’t actually have a cycling club or they they didn’t have a cycling club or they didn’t have like a junior’s program or anything, but Ba’is did and like really quite a good one. And still to this day, I’m still with the Ba’athist club. And I’ve never spent a night in Ba’athas basically. So yeah, they would take me down there when I was about oh, I don’t know, six or seven, seven maybe. And it was like once a week on a Friday, I think. And it was just riding around in the drrome and on the grass on the inside just Yeah. And that’s I think that’s my first memory of like starting to actually go, “Oh, this thing is quite cool.” Um, obviously I had a bike and I remember riding that around as four or 5 years old. Um, it might have actually stemmed when I was like, I don’t know, 18 months, 2 years old. I was obsessed with like when I was still in Mudgy, I had this like red tractor and it’s all I wanted and it was pedal. It was powered by pedaling. Uh, and it was my obsession up and down the veranda just on this this tractor into town with mom and the dog when they would she’d go for a coffee or something and I’d join I’d ride this thing everywhere. So that I might actually be kind of where it started. As well as my dad tricked me that the tour to France was the Wiggles with all the different colored jerseys like when I was so young to not to not understand like a bike race. Uh, and he would say, “Yeah, that’s the Wiggles.” So I’ I’d be screaming go Greg at the uh TV when the yellow jersey would come on and it was probably Armstrong at the time or someone and I’d be screaming go Greg. So I think I think subconsciously that’s where it all it all started from. So wow. With with the drrome when you were very first riding on that was it did you love the drrome or was it just anytime you could get on a bike was just heaven for you? I think it was just any time like that. I kind of remember that being like the highlight of the week type thing or oh okay on this day we get to go to Ba’athist for the afternoon. It was literally it was nothing serious. It was literally racing up and down on the grass and maybe if you were lucky you got to actually do a lap or two on the tarmac at the end. Uh but it was just like the most basic like getting kids into sport. Like you’d see soccer pitches around towns and it’s people like six-year-olds doing skills and stuff. It’s literally just that but with a bike. Like you’re weaving in and out of cones, stuff like this. And the way that Ba’is had it set up was was really good. Um and there was it was literally you were just doing it for fun once a week and it was everyone had a smile on their face doing it. Like there was no no pressure, no performance, no nothing. It was just getting kids into the sport basically. I’m curious from from your perspective because you I guess you’re on the road now to being a professional rider and are a professional rider. Why do you think Ba’is does it so well at that cycling group? Is there is there a secret source as to why they’re doing it so well in in that area? I think the secret source is just time. Uh I think that’s the biggest advantage that they have that the cycling club has been like around I think since the 1800s. So, it’s been like a really established like establishment like they’ve had people come through and see and I think especially Mark Renaw. I don’t know if you’ve if you’re familiar with him or anything. He’s did the tour to France I think 12 or 14 times. Uh, one of the most successful lead out men and Australian riders of all time. Uh, is from Ba’athist. Um and his mom and he literally did the same progression like starting out doing nothing and his mom is still like the junior coach at Ba’athist and was my coach for 6 years when I started to get serious with it. Um, so I think having that like fundament like you have even just having one guy come out of the town that goes on to do be one of the biggest riders just like breeds having then a successful program and other people want to get involved. Like you see the UK is the perfect example of having the Olympics in 2012 and it kind of cycling but also other sports after having the Olympics it just took off. Like I’m too young to remember. I was born after Sydney Olympics. So I don’t know if the same thing happened in Australia or something. But sports, I just know that sports, especially cycling in the UK, after watching one guy at the Olympics, Brad Wiggins, and and on the track winning, it just got a whole bunch of people involved. So on a micro scale, I think that’s what happened in Ba’ist. So yeah, it’s really fascinating cuz it’s u I think it’s one of those things like especially like that one town everyone will really get behind it like you said like with Mark like it happens and I think it’s it’s really special when that happens. I think that’s the power of sport right like you can really get behind one person it can really transform a whole community. Exactly. And I mean, cycling is such a small sport in Australia that not a lot of people know about it or not a lot of people have a lot of interest in it. Um, but even just to get one guy, that first three weeks of the year is on everyone’s TV screens and people have something to cheer about cuz it’s really the only race you can watch to wall coverage on for free in Australia. uh is is yeah it only takes one guy and it’s a sport that is small and not many people probably have much interest in but it can still bring everyone like commit everyone to the same cause and watching the same thing and support this one one guy doing it and I think that really just helps then there’s a trickle down effect that then goes onto families and kids that want to then do the same thing. So definitely. Do you remember when I guess cycling for you started to get, I guess, a little bit more serious and you thought it could potentially become a a profession or you want to pursue it more long term? Do you remember what that that kind of feeling or moment was like? I think it was when I was 14. I was year eight at school and I had a I had a quite a good winter on the road. Um, so I should take a step back. Traditionally in Australia, summer is on the velrome and then winter is on the road. Um, and it’s kind of the season kind of the switch happens after national champs. So that’s usually around March on the track or what it was was March would be the national championships for Drrome and then September or August would be the national champs for the road. And I remember I had a really good year. I got selected for national champs uh which was in Perth. went over there and I actually I won my first medal and I was like okay that was really cool like and it was like my first year of like actually doing structured training and everything um taking it more seriously that just kind of being my sole focus um sporting wise and yeah I think then after that each year it kind of builds and builds and then you start to get better and better and slowly well for me it was actually quite a slow progression up. Some people just have years where they just excel or they have a a massive period of really good performances, but for me it was it was really quite a slow really slow buildup. And then when I was 17, actually I was in year 12, um I had the opportunity to go to Italy and race for 3 months in in the middle of year 12, like it’s kind of like, okay, uh this is the this is the commitment I got to make. And yeah, I I did that. I I missed a whole term of year 12. Um but in the end it was it was completely worth it. And I think after that trip it was when in 2022 after that trip it was like okay I think I think I can commit full guess like really commit my life to this now. It’s kind it’s an interesting point like you like year 12 I guess is such a guess you look at it from a school point of view it’s such a crucial year but it probably is it’s a really good opening segment to like your building your support network and for you it’s your your close-knit family and friends do you remember what it was like I guess getting that opportunity to go over to Italy and what that conversation was like to go I’m going to pursue it I’m going to go over there but it’s in the middle of year 12 like it’s a bit of a it’s not a double-edged sword But you kind of know what I mean, right? No, I know exactly what you mean because it’s like it’s it’s up until that point the most important usually the most important event in year of your life basically. Um but I remember it was around October, November I got a message from who wasn’t and still is Simon Clark an Australian professional. Um and he was like I I had this opportunity in Italy. What do you think? And I was like, “Yeah, like initially I’m keen.” Like it’s it’s yeah, I I’ve been wanting to go to Europe and it was after co things were opening back up. Like it was it was a realistic uh opportunity. Um it wasn’t going to get shut down because of the pandemic or anything like it it was it was happening if the opportunity was there if I wanted it. Uh it was a pretty easy discussion with my parents. So we’re like, “Yeah, like this is what you’ve been wanting to do.” Like it doesn’t really matter that it’s year 12. Like because unfortunately with the cycling world, if you you’re 12, so when you’re 17, 18, it is the most important time for an Australian to go to Europe. Like if you if you don’t, you’ve the likelihood of actually going professional. if you don’t do that is you basically probably half your chance of ever going professional is gone if you don’t actually go in that year. Uh just experience wise and exposure wise. Um and then thankfully my assistant principal at school who was also my French teacher who’s also had uh sons highly involved in triathlon. She was all into psych. Like she was she really was a huge support even from when I was in year 7. Was like, “Yep, go.” Like I told her about the opportunity and she was like, “Yeah, go.” Like I don’t care that it’s year 12. Like this is what you’ve been wanting to do. Uh and yeah, the school were completely behind it. Like completely supportive of it. They were like, “Honestly, take as long as you need.” Like it was it was initing the trip at all. Um, but they were like, “Yeah, just go. Like, no worries. Do as much work as you can. Like, it’s it’s literally all good.” Um, so yeah, I had I had the support of everyone, which was uh incredible. There was no one going, “Oh, I don’t know about this. Like, maybe you should consider your other options or finish school first and then look after it.” But I think in the end, it was the best decision I could have done. And how special, right, to have, I guess, like not only your family, but to have such a supportive principal at the time that backed you and was able to not let you go over, but really just gave you a platform to to boost you and Exactly. And you head over there. What was it like heading over to Italy to do your very first, I guess, European race? Cuz that’s uh being an Australian flying over. Did you were you nervous? What were the first emotions that kind of came to mind for you uh the first week? If there was a taxi that would have pulled up like out the front of where I was staying in Italy and was like, I’m going straight to the airport, I would have got on that taxi to go back home. Like I was like complete like yeah I it was a bit of a shock to be honest. Like thankfully I’ve I’ve been in the position where I have been able to travel with family holidays. So the whole traveling experience was fine but like on the ground no one really spoke English. I didn’t speak Italian. I was somewhere that I didn’t know a completely new environment going like what the hell is going on? You know Italians are notoriously unorganized. So I really had no idea what was going on. They had no idea um really what the plan was. I mean, they knew I was coming and I was really well looked after. They’re so hospitable and everything, but they didn’t really have a plan either. And that first week was really hard. Uh but it was actually funny. I go to my first race. I was like pretty emotional all week about it. I was like, don’t really want to do this race. Kind of just want to settle in properly. uh did the race and I I won my first race. So, and then and then it was like, oh, this is this is not too bad. Uh and yeah, that was that was my first ever road race win and stuff. So, it was like, oh, right. And the team was like all these Italian guys were like, oh, like this isn’t we haven’t just got some guy from Australia who’s like struggling to get around like he’s he’s won his first race. Uh and yeah, kind of the trip got better from from after that first week. It yeah, it got it got a lot easier. Um but yeah, it definitely was a shock. I was 17 like you know you going to the other side of the world in a country where you don’t speak the language. Uh, it was a shock, but it was really, really hard, but honestly, I think it was the best experience to set myself up to live in Europe. Definitely. Well, funny you mentioned that. It’s time for our first photo. Luke, I’m going to show you this. I want to see if I can get Can you see that? That’s That’s the first race. What? Um, when you see that, there’s a lot of emotion in that celebration. And now knowing what your experience was like in that first week. What does it mean seeing that photo and knowing your very first race in Europe, you won? I think it it kind of it kind of sums up why I was there and the support that people gave me to be there and like it kind of felt like, okay, this is really something I can do. Like it wasn’t just a it wasn’t like I went over for 3 months and just got my head kicked in and then it was just like really demoralizing and you were like I don’t really know how I feel. I don’t know if I fit in this sport or anything. Um, yeah, kind of sums up that I think that race and that celebration, that finish line kind of sums up that I was in the right place and I was doing the right thing and the right sport and that the week before that was was worth it in in the sense of the term. So, it’s it’s very special, mate. And congratulations. That is a huge achievement to go over and being Australian and take it to the Europeans in like their backyard. It’s it’s pretty cool to just even talk about and you win that race. What’s then next for you, Luke? What’s I guess you you win that you obviously get attention from that race. What’s I guess your next uh progression from that point? Um obviously the Italians were like, “What the hell is this?” like the only non-Italian I think in the race. There might have been some Ukrainians or something as well, but the only non-European in the race. Um, and they were like, so so then there was interest and my the guy who was running the team, I was was like all over it. He was like trying to contact every Italian agent and team. Like I I’m sure he was trying to set up the next 20 years of my life to stay in Italy and stay near him. Um but Mark Wrenchaw uh who is who became a mentor for me and probably and still is uh put me in touch with his agent um who’s a British guy, one of the most well-known and respected cycling agents in the world. Um put me in touch with him. He had a development team at the time. Um and yeah, we he he kept we kept in touch over the period I was in Europe. Um and then ultimately that led to me writing with them in 2023. Um so yeah, without without that kind of going to Europe and then without Mark putting me in touch with his agent, uh I would have probably most likely never have gotten on that development team. like and that that’s what I mean by going over as at that time in your life as an Australian is the most important but almost the most important time because without that I would have you would have already been a step more than a step behind um if I went post HSC. Um, so yeah, that was that was kind of the follow on after that trip was I got noticed by a European team. Um, and yeah, that was that’s kind of the next was the next logical step in an ideal world. like that was kind of the almost the best place to try and go straight out of juniors as an Australian who wasn’t a I wasn’t a super talent or this freak of nature for just I’m just throwing words around like that European teams notice there’s been some junior juniors in Australia that break a world record on the bell drum and it’s like right that’s that’s gains attention but yeah that wasn’t me so that was the logical and that was the progression that happened after that trip. Really curious because you brought up something and I guess as not an athlete but I guess in sports media you hear a lot about sports agents and their involvement with athletes. I guess I’d love to hear from a professional athletes point of view. What does having a sports agent on your side and being an Australian and I guess that transition period, how important was it to have an agent by your side and help get you into the next development team? because it can be quite scary and daunting being out in the like the big bad world in some respects. Yeah. Well, it was a situation where the and my my agent who still is my agent, uh, Andrew McQuade, it was his development team. Um, so it was like being on the development team meant you were part of the agency. Um, so it was it was and it it was one of the best um English speaking development teams uh in Europe. Just full stop. Um yeah, so for him it was like it kind of was a dual a dual interest of okay, you join the development team, you’re then part of my agency and then if you go on to being a really good writer, he’s got first dibs on the return on that investment that he’s put into when you’re a 19, 18, 20 year old. Um, so in terms of in terms of getting onto a team, having an agent, I can’t really speak too much on it because it was his team. Uh, so it was really only dealing with one person, which was him. Um, but especially when you come to the point where you start talking about making that next step up to the proper professional ranks, it’s such less of a burden on me to have to deal with that management side of it all. Like the kind of he’s the middleman that can ask the difficult questions or kick back on on things that maybe as a writer you don’t really want to be in that position. Okay, if you’re 35 at the end of your career and you know the sport and you know how teams work and you know the culture and you can stand up for yourself and you’re comfortable having those conversations, you can do it yourself. But as a 18year-old, 19-year-old Australian guy who is still quite new to the European cycling world, like being involved in it, it was it’s like such a advantage or I mean, everyone has an agent, but it’s so nice to have someone who knows what they’re doing having those conversations for you and it’s just a stress that you it’s an added stress you don’t have to worry about and the less stress you can have as an Australian living in Europe, the better. So, definitely. And so you joined that development team and it’s now 2023 I guess in the timeline period. What does that next period of time look like for you? Are you feeling I guess a little bit more settled in Europe or you still feeling I guess like a little bit homesick uh at this point? Uh settled probably not homesick not at all. Uh the the experience on Italy kind of made it easy for what was to come. Um but then I moved to Spain. Uh I I did six months in Europe that year. Um I was in Spain. Uh you start it’s your first year of under 23. You’ve come out of juniors. Uh and like you’re racing against guys like my first race was against guys who were world tour pros and they just come off the tour to France in France. I was it was a full day and I unfortunately got like some stomach issues and I I still to this day don’t know what it was whether it was some hotel food or something but even the day that I was like healthy it was like this is a shock and like that’s the point where you go okay this is like a really really big step that I have to make this isn’t just something you can go away for a week and and fix on this is like a this like a 6 months of training progression just to get 5% better just to not to just just to get dropped 30 minutes later like just to survive another 30 minutes. Um so that was that 2023 was a like quite a big shock. I I didn’t do anything like I just kind of was surviving riding around like yeah it wasn’t it wasn’t ideal. I didn’t get to actually race that much. So, you kind of lose that development process as if you don’t race. Like, it’s really hard to take that step without the racing, especially in cycling. Um, so yeah, 2023 it kind of felt like a little bit of a waste. Like it kind of felt like it didn’t take that much. I got to train a lot, which was good. And I I feel like the biggest takeaway of 2023 was I learned how to be at home and I learned how to train and I learned the routines and the structure and how to yeah basically learn how to train which I think in the end was quite a good lesson to learn and quite quite constructive for the future. I was going to say are you naturally quite a a disciplined person or do you find that you have to I guess work at that craft and kind of get better at it? I think I’m I’m naturally really quite disciplined. I feel like I feel like I don’t have to I don’t feel like I have to try that hard to be disciplined and do it all. But then when I really feel like when I have to work hard, like when I feel myself I have to work hard, I know I’m gaining an advantage or I’m gaining a few extra percent because I’m going, okay, this is I know it comes naturally to me. So, if I’m really having to focus in on it, I know that it’s something that probably most people won’t can won’t put themselves in a position to do. So, yeah, thankfully it it comes really quite naturally to me, which is quite an asset. Definitely. And you you’re on that European circuit, I guess, for that 6 months period. So, over summer, do you then head head back home after that European season? Yeah, I came I came back to Australia um in October. Um and national championships in Australia is in usually in the first two weeks of January. Um and in Australia it’s like everyone is on form for it. Like it it’s it’s the first race of the year even for Europeans. It’s the first UCI race of the year. like it’s people look at the results of Australian nationals because it’s the first thing of the year. Um and initially my plan was to be in good shape and and really try to do well. Um start training up again after offseason. I really only had two weeks off which in hindsight was nowhere near enough. Um, and I got to I think the first the second week of December and I was like, what on earth am I doing? Like I just felt like I I I lost the drive a bit. I was like, it’s not even it’s still 2023 and I’m training full gas already. And I knew I was going over to Europe in February. Like I the next year I was doing a full year in Europe. Um, like a full racing program. So I knew and I was going full gas efforts in December at home going what on earth am I doing and I was I was actually working 20ish hours a week as well lifeguarding and I was just going out to do these 4hour rides with effort simulating the race and I was like what is going on? So then I really in December just completely lost the drive for it and I was like I’m going I just felt like I was going too hard too early. Completely dart it back. I was doing like 10 hours a week when my my Australian teammate who I actually live with here um was doing like 25 20 full gas. He actually he won the race. So for him it paid off. And for me at the race I DNFed. Like I didn’t even finish it. I was like completely out of shape for it. But I was like I don’t care. Like I I did get to the point where I didn’t care about nationals because I was so focused on the the European bit and so conscious of not going too hard too early cuz the Europeans in December are just riding around talking to each other going to coffee rides for 3 hours like they’re just completely chill and everything and I’m going go we’re going full gas in December and January and I’m like this is I cannot mentally do this. Um, so yeah, I then kind of had that period in Australia. Didn’t have the nationals I wanted at all. As expected, I came in with I knew it was wasn’t going to go well because I hadn’t trained for it basically. Um, and then yeah, came over to Europe in February and it was like a switch flicked in my head. As soon as I got to Europe, it was like, “Right, it’s go time.” And I was felt like I was completely mentally fresh for it and everything. And yeah, I I I was full gas. I was on. As soon as I got to Europe, it was like this massive massive change and yeah, just it went from there. Do you feel like when you’re you’re in Europe, that’s just I guess mentality. Get off the flight, you’re kind of at home, you go, I’m on. Is that kind of like the mental switch you you tend to make? I actually find it really challenging to train really hard at home now. Well, at home I Europe is my home now. So when I’m back in Australia, um I find it really hard to train really hard. Um like I can do small rides and everything like you know your typical pre-season after a month off you’re not actually training that much. You can’t train that much. Um but even that I find it more difficult than being in Europe. I don’t know what it is. Most Australians find it so much easier to train for in Australia, but I’m like I just it is just I don’t know what it is, but it just in Europe it just clicks for me. Like it just it just is I can just go so much I’m so much more mentally focused on it in Europe than I am in Australia. And I I I still haven’t worked out why that is the case. It’s really fascinating, isn’t it? and you’re I guess in February, you’re leading into the big European season. I guess for people out there that don’t know, what does what does your load kind of look like at this point? So like week to week, how much are you kind of riding? What kind of uh to your threshold? What are you sort of riding at at this point? Um it kind of depends because guys can it kind of depends where your target races fall. So guys who there’s a massive period between the end of March and all of April in Europe. It’s it’s commonly coined as the classics. Um and and guys who are probably 70 to 75 kilos like strong guys that could probably fit would be a pretty slim guy in in in rugby or in footy or something. In cycling they’re big big guys. uh they go all in for that period of the year. So they’re training they’re already going really hard at the beginning of the year. Um but for me my goals are past that date. I don’t I’m I’m the wrong physical build to do well in the classics. So it’s kind of at the beginning of the year that January February period it’s more of a quite a big load period like you’re doing you’re not going that hard intensity. you’re kind of riding around just a pace you can sustain for four or five hours like low intensity efforts like it’s it’s really building that base so then by the time you get to the end of February start of March and the racing starts and the season really starts you then have the base to work off that to do start doing really high efforts and really training your V2 max and everything. Um so that when last year that 2024 period that January was in Australia I had more motivation. February I came over had training camp with the team which had it’s a really high load for 2 weeks um recover from that and then it was the racing the racing kicked off after that kind of I had training camp 3 weeks at home and then racing begins. So yeah, and then you’re on the circus for multiple months. It’s it’s nuts. And you So you say like the classics are like that March April period and then the Jurro Ditalia that’s a little bit after the classics. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. So the the professional zero datalia happens uh at the end of May. Uh and then the under 23 version basically follows that two weeks later. Um, so it it it’s usually around the middle of June, the first the first three weeks of June. It will fall within one of those weeks. Um, and my my goal last year was just to be on the team to do it. Like I just wanted to be on the start line. I didn’t care how I got there or anything. I was like all last year I was all in for 6 months. the first six months of the year up until the Jurro and I didn’t care what happened after the Jurro. I was like, I just want to be on that start line. I had a really good three races before it, I had really far exceeded my own expectations and the team’s expectations of me. So then I already knew quite far out I was doing the Euro. So it was like, right, I can now really focus on doing this race last year. And then I got to the Jurro and then that outceeded the expectations I was going I had going into that race. And then, you know, come the end of it, I finished 10th overall. I was really consistent across the whole race. Like, it was the first time I’d ever done eight days of racing stuff like this. Like, yeah, I I came out of that race and I was like, “This year is already a success.” Like, I I ticked every box that I wanted that I set for myself in January. So, could you put into perspective for people, I guess, that that start line. So you finished 10th which is a remarkable result in your I guess your first time doing it. How many riders are actually at the start line? How many finish the Jurro Italia? I usually about 170ish will start it. Um 140 130 guys will finish. So this kind of a 15% that guys have won’t won’t finish. Um, but even within that race of people that finish, there’s only then a select percentage of that that try to get the best overall classification. So out of that 140 guys, for example, who finish, there’s only probably 30 guys that are actually trying to finish as high as they can overall as possible. So, it kind of gets the structure of the race goes from, you know, you probably have the bottom 30 just surviving uh the middle 100 sprinters or team helpers or they’re going for the they don’t care about the overall. One day they’ll go really hard, one day they’ll go easy on the mountains and they’ll target what they want. And then the top 30 are guys who are riding really hard every day um trying to get the lowest accumulative time. So, kind of gets broken down, but yeah, usually I think I think this year there might have been about 40ish guys that didn’t finish the race. And I think after the first road stage, I think almost 10 guys didn’t finish the first road stage. So, but that’s a that’s a that’s a political topic for for another time about about why that situation’s happened, but that’s fine. We won’t go into that one. No, you don’t need to go into that. I’m curious about the I guess the the term like team rider that you mentioned there. I guess we see it a lot in the tour to France, but then obviously we won’t see it when we’re when those other races are on. Could you explain to people I guess yeah the role of a team rider and I guess the process of who is elected as a team riders like this is not really the race for you. You’re just going to help manage your your teammate. Like how does that kind of go about in a professional rider setting? Well, on the biggest scale, so on the tour to France scale, they’ll so teams like for teams like UAE, which is the biggest team in the world, and they have the best rider in the world, tad, um the whole team, the whole focus of that team is for him to win the race overall at the end. So there’s eight guys on the team and seven guys are completely solely focused on helping Tade get the best result he can. And these guys are paid millions of euros just to not get a single result for themselves just to help Ted win. And there’s m there’s other teams built around that built like that as well. Um, but really there’s the guys make professional careers out of helping other people win uh in cycling. Like it’s an individual sport that is a team sport. It’s such a complex way. It’s got such a funny way for a sport to be set up because the individual gets all the glory, but the individual doesn’t win without his whole team sacrificing their own end result for him to win. Um, so people prep all year just to help and be in the best shape possible to help someone else. Like it’s quite it’s quite a funny concept and it’s such a and for some people it’s like they just cannot help others. Like they just don’t have that mindset of of I do all this work and I don’t get to go for myself. And those are usually the guys who end up being leaders. Um but yeah on and but then as you trickle down to that as if you trickle down off the to France and then you get to the under 23 um jurro no one there’s very few guys in there who are solely team helpers like everyone is kind of there to still ride for their own result because everyone is 95% of that field don’t have a professional contract. So there everyone is looking for a result in this race because it is the biggest race on the calendar for under 23s has the most exposure. So it’s really it’s really quite tricky even more when you get to under 23s and especially the Judro because you have teams but even within those teams people are writing for their own results because they don’t have a professional contract like they’re still on development teams. It’s kind of like it’s not like a rugby pitch we have 15 guys all dedicate all like trying to work together to win. It’s like at the Jurro this year we had five or teams have five guys and each one of those five guys wants to get a result. It’d be like It’d be like being on a footy pitch and the the team’s divided into two and they’re both competing against each other, but they’re on the same team, but it’s like, “Okay, which one of these seven group of seven people can score the most amount of tries?” And it’s like a competition within a competition. And it’s such a fine balance of it going really well and or it going to so badly and nothing comes out of the race. Everyone’s annoyed at each other. Really bad dynamic and people stop fighting. Like it it happens. So, it’s really quite a fine balance the teams and especially when you get to the amateur ranks and the junior ranks and the development. It’s like, yeah, it the team dynamic is is really important and it’s such a hard balance for and such hard conversations for team directors and team managers to have with some writers being like, okay, you’re you’re you are theoretically the best five guys on the team or at this race, but at this race, it doesn’t that doesn’t mean that you get to be the leader for this race pretty much. It’s honestly very fascinating like just hearing it from your perspective because it’s I think most people wouldn’t even understand that kind of insight and once people kind of know and tap into it they actually I guess transforms their experience of actually watching cycling and going it’s a complete once you understand it it’s a completely different sport like it’s such a it is such a really hard concept to understand uh especially as Australians cycling isn’t really a sport that big of a sport in Australia But once once you wrap your head around the concept of it, it completely it is a completely different sport. And then you you start to notice things that before you you never would have picked up on. Definitely, mate. It’s uh it’s time for another photo. It’s uh Don’t worry, it’s a flattering one. Okay. Yeah. See see that one? Yeah. Yeah, I see it. I guess um I’m really curious to get your thoughts because I guess when I see that you’re you’re an Australian, you’re riding Europe, and you’re racing under the sponsorship of arguably one of the biggest brands in the world in Red Bull. I guess there’s obviously a side that you get perks to it, but I know that Red Bull is very dedicated to their high performance and managing of their athletes. I guess as a writer, I’d love to get your kind of understanding as to how I guess Red Bull helps you, but also I guess what that photo means to you. Uh, so Red Bull is really quite new to cycling. Um, I mean, you see you see some of the Red Bull marketing stuff and it’s guys jumping out of planes and guys jumping off the side of a mountain in a wing suit. Can’t really do that in cycling. Like there’s been uh guys like Tom Pidcock and Watt Van. they are individual Red Bull athletes. Um so Red Bull had very small visibility when it came to the world of cycling with these two guys were had connection with Red Bull. Um rumors started to then float around that Red Bull wanted to get involved with a team. Uh that team happened to already be the team Bora Hans Grower um who has Australians like Jai Henley already on the team. um this time 12 months ago they came into the sport they bought 51% of the team of Bora Hans grower um so now they are the majority owners of the team and then at the Jurro last year I was approached by uh one of the guys on the team who was setting up this new development program that Red Bull wanted Red Bull came in and they like we need this development program um they kind of pitched me the idea on the ground about it I was already very interested. As soon as I got back home, I had a meeting with them. Um, and I was I was completely sold on the vision and everything that with with what Red Bull were bringing. And honestly, it it it’s an advantage and it’s something that I don’t think any other team in the world has because because it’s such a global brand. Like, they were like, “Okay, we we’re coming in with this investment and this money. We could theoretically we could go out and buy the best rider in the world out of his contract, bring him into the team and win the tour to France the following year. Like theoretically they could have done that. But Red Bull and their focus went no, we don’t want to do that. We want to put that money into a development program and then in 5 years time have someone out of that development program win the tour to France or be there in the tour to France. So to have that advantage that they have this focus on us as athletes um as us as young athletes that theoretically we’re not even on the world tour professional team to have that investment and support from Red Bull. Uh yeah and I mean it sums up in that photo to stand there and you’ve got you’ve got Red Bull blasted across your chest. Uh and we get to ride with Red Bull helmets and everything and it’s just it’s just so special. even every time I put it on is like this is cool. Like it it’s just cool. like having that Red Bull family and the support and the way that they’ve they’ve come and kind of they haven’t shaken things up, but it’s definitely brought a new way of thinking and a new just that feeling of knowing that you are supported like and you will be supported for a really long time because you know sponsors can come into cycling and they’re only really only around for 2 years and there’s a lot of uncertainty and a lot of teams the cycling team doesn’t last for that long usually because of sponsorship. is so heavily reliant on sponsorship. So, so to know there’s something like Red Bull that is owns the team and you have that backing and that long-term backing as an athlete, especially in cycling, it’s like it’s the golden ticket. So, it’s truly remarkable. You see it well now brought into cycling, but Red Bull are doing this in other programs as well, like Formula 1. You can see it in their development program. They bring in the likes of Ricardo, Sebastian Viddle. Like it’s it’s very cool to see that not only just for one sport, but I guess transcends across their Red Bull brand and it’s now been brought into cycling, which you’re one of the I wouldn’t say lucky ones cuz you’ve worked very hard to get to this position, but yeah, you’re you’re backed by a huge brand. It’s truly remarkable. Yeah, it’s it it is it is kind of insane to be 20 years old and you get to ride around with Red Bull. And all my friends at at home and they found out I was now riding for a team that was Red Bull was like what? Like Red Bull? Like this is like insane. Like it’s something that so few people ever get to have association with. Um, and we were really lucky where that photo was taken is actually in October they have a a team camp. They had they used to have a team camp. Now that team camp is at Red Bull HQ in Austria. So we got to go to the Red Bull like the whole week was set up organized by Red Bull. Uh, now they pour a whole lot of money into this October camp. We get to go to the HQ. We’re walking around all the buildings. It’s like a university campus in Salsburg where this Red Bull HQ is as well as the Glo Global head office in Fushal where we were staying which is 45 minutes from Salsburg. Um it’s just in like you’re walking around the Alpha Tower showroom and like everything and you’re seeing you see all the F1 cars, all the Rebel athletes and you start to understand how big this company is. Like they sell 12 and a half billion cans of the drink a year. Like it’s it it’s insane. It’s like 60 sport teams, 600 athletes. Like it is it’s honestly so ridiculous how big the operation is. So you just know that they are completely and 100% invested and supported in it because it is their identity now. Like it is the brand’s identity is sports. So it’s honestly fantastic. And I think it probably leads into a really good segue where we talked about the start of the I guess the episode is the jersey behind you which is the Magalina Rosa and I’d love to get your I guess understanding is there’s obviously the jersey and you you earned that but you get to the start line for the 2025 Jurro. How are you feeling at the start line before the start of the race? I’d had up to that point I’d had I’ve had I had a pretty good year like in terms if you looked at it up until results wise it wasn’t as good as last year but the physical level I was on was it was night and day comparison um and we had a three 3 week altitude training camp in and Pandora which is a little principality in between Spain and in uh France and the Pyrenees we had a team camp there and it went really well for me like I was I was riding the best I’d ever had just in terms of numbers wise um at this camp and I was like okay I I know I’m in good shape like I just need to get to this race now but one of my teammates um Lorenzo Finn who’s two years younger than me actually um he was junior world champion last year has done really well this year winning races and everything um he came in as he was he is he just is the best rider on the development team like that’s it just that’s just how it is. He’s a great guy. I I get along really well with Lorenzo. Um we’ve basically done every race with each other this year up to that point. Um but we’d gone in saying, “Okay, Lorenzo is on paper the strongest here and probably will be the strongest.” Um thankfully I had up my sleeve. I’d already done the race. I’d already done well in the race. I was riding into really good shape. So it was like, “Okay, we also have Luke here as well. we’re not going to throw away at the beginning of the race any of those chances because we want to have the cards to play when the race came around. So going into the race, I was I knew I was riding well, but even the at the beginning of the race, I was my sole focus was helping was helping Lorenzo to to do as well as he could. I try to at the beginning of the race get not throw away any opportunity, not do anything stupid, not make any mistakes, but ultimately it was I was there to be Lorenzo’s number one helper, basically. When did that start to shift for you? I guess a bit more into your your favor. Uh first mountain day, which was day three, uh after about 10 minutes of the climb, there was only seven of us left and Lorenzo and I were both there. Um one of the Norwegian guy attacked. He’s already professional. Like he he’s actually dropped down a category. he’d actually dropped down a step to come and do this race because he’s one of the best talents in the world and he’s like, “Okay, I can come to this race and hopefully I can win this race.” Um, he attacks with about 6K to go on the climb. Lorenzo and I are both in the group. We’ve come into this race naturally going, “Okay, Lorenzo is the leader.” I then come to the front of this group to try and to try and pull this guy who’s just attacked back. Um, I am riding the front of this group. Lorenzo behind me. Uh, over about 3 km, I actually bring this guy back into the group. Like I catch back up to him on the climb. Uh, Lorenzo attacks off that pace, goes right, starts riding away with the guy who won the race last year. um who is arguably the biggest talent in the world like the biggest upcoming rider in the world. Lorenzo rides starts riding away with I then fall back into this this group just behind and they’re all completely done and I was like okay if I’ve just gone this hard for the last 12 minutes like pacing and these guys are completely spent like they have they they can’t they’re not bringing Lorenzo and Yano back like they’re gone. I was like, “Okay, I’m obviously I’m obviously stronger than these guys.” Uh, get to the the Belgian guy, the guy who won the race last year wins. Lorenzo’s just behind him. I’ve actually followed a few of the other guys who have attacked out of that group, then proceeded to drop those guys as well at the end. So, I’ve actually ridden away from the guys who were sitting behind me when I was pacing. I finished fourth on the stage, only 20, 30 seconds behind the winner. And it was like, oh, okay, like my level is really good. And the team was like, oh, okay, Luke’s level is really good. So, we finished this this third stage and we have second and second and third already overall on GC. We have second, third, and 10th on GC already. And it’s like, okay, like we’re we’re in the best position possible. Uh the next day, we just kind of keep it under control for the for the general classification. Uh, one of our other teammates gets in the breakaway that stays to the finish finish line, he gets fourth. So, it’s like I go back to what I said before about people racing for themselves. We tried to give everyone in the team the opportunity to have a day where they went for their results. And for one of this guy in the team, that was his opportunity for the day. He got fourth. He was annoyed with it. We were like, “Mate, that was a like that was a really good ride.” Uh, so that was his like opportunity for the race. And then he was content after that and happy to help and help out and help the team goal. The next day we go, okay, we’ve got three guys in the top 10 of general classification all within a minute and a half. So theoretically, the guy who was in 10th only needed a minute and a half on the Belgian guy to get into the pink jersey. I was only 27 seconds or something behind. So it was really like it was really close. Even first to 10th was separated by a minute and a half which is really really close. We get over there was a massive climb in the middle. We got over it with we went full bull gas on it as a team. We get over it with about 15 12 guys. We’re the only team with three riders and that’s our three GC riders. And we had this plan to get over the top isol isolate the guy who was in the pink jersey. So he had no teammates and then just start bringing down hell like just trying to attack and get ahead of him. We get off this descent and we’re going full gas with this with this plan and then thankfully I’m the one that got in a group that started riding away and it was a group of 11 I think. But I only had four guys who were like committed to actually riding and there were four guys who were on GC on general classification. So, there’s six guys on the group who have their GC riders behind going, “No, we’re not helping because you’re gaining time on our GC rider.” Uh, and then at the highest point, we had 2 minutes in front of the pink jersey. So, theoretically, I’m leading the race ahead of the guy who was previously reading leading the race by a minute and a half. We get to the end and I we we’ve stayed away like my my group’s won the stage. I’ve gone into the pink jersey. I have 25 seconds on the guy who’s in second, 35 seconds on the guy who’s in third, and then a minute and a half to the guy who was in the pink jersey. So, it’s like the team plan went perfectly. And I also then I also have two minutes then on my teammate Lorenzo. So, then the that’s when the the the plan shift and it was like, okay, this is the situation. Luke’s riding well. Lorenzo, you’re still riding well. We keep you in the race as well. That’s when it that’s when that big shift was was after the fifth day was like okay we’ve got we’ve got a different factor now in this race that we didn’t the team now has a different factor that they didn’t know they they were going to have so yeah that that’s that’s when it changed. Sorry it’s a very long explanation and I don’t know if I you got lost on it but it it is kind of you need the context to do it to understand it. I I appreciate that, Luke, because I think it’s it gives people a new perspective as to, I guess, what goes behind the scenes of a professional writing team, but then also the ever changing movements within a stage. like things can change literally within like you said 6ks and it’s and it’s all it’s all and that’s that’s also when it’s now a team sport but because we had three guys working together from from from my team Red Bull against one guy and you’re and then you’re working as a team to put that guy that one guy under pressure that’s when it’s completely a team sport again like suddenly now the individual it doesn’t matter if it was myself uh Lorenzo or my the other teammate Callum who’s a British guy. It it didn’t matter which one of us got up the road as long as one of us did and we put that pressure on. So I’m it thankfully it was just from from a selfish point of view it thankfully it was me because then I got to be the one going to the pink jersey and have that exposure. Um but yeah, it was it was really that day was a was evidence of how much of a team sport it is. Absolutely. And I’ll um I’m sure you’ll love this photo as well. Yeah. Can you see that? I can see that one. What um again, we kind of go back to it, but being Australian on the European circuit, like arguably one of the biggest races, you’re in the top step, spraying champagne. Hopefully champagne, of course. Yeah. What was that feeling like for you, I guess, in those first few moments of of that? It had been almost two years since I was on last on a podium like that. And it was it was in Italy when I no three years. And it was in Italy when I was a junior on that first trip was the last time I’d been on a podium getting to do that. Um and my dad had actually flown over for Australia for the whole week of the race. Um he came last year for the four day the last four days and this year I was like I’d really like you to come for the whole thing. So, dad was at the finish on that day like he was he was basically in tears knowing that I’d gone into the pink jersey. And that whole podium, presentation, everything was just so special. Um, knowing that I’m in the lead of this race. This is something that I I knew I was I was physically in good shape for the race, but not physically shape to I didn’t think it would be in that I would be in that situation. So yeah, to be there like the whole time in the race I’m like okay theoretically like I am in the pink jersey now but like anything can change up until the end like not until and then it was when I crossed the finish line I was like okay and the team were going like the the team staff who were at the finish line were like they they they knew I was in the pink jersey. I knew in my head then I think I was in the pink jersey. Um, yeah, it was it was it was really really special and it’s something I will never forget. It it is truly remarkable and you should be so proud of yourself and I think I’m about to show you another photo, but I guess the analogy is you go into the final stage. You still have the the Magalina Roser on, right? You’re still still the leader, but the situation becomes you’re you’re being hunted. The hunter becomes the hunted. Yeah. How I’ll show you this photo which is you see that one? Yeah, I can see it. I guess from from your side you head into that day. You’re in the lead jersey. What are you feeling? Are you feeling nervous? Are you aware of I guess the not expectation but I guess what’s behind you and what’s trying to chase you down? Uh yes, I was very aware of what was going on. Like the day before I’d lost 15 seconds to the guy who was in second, which wasn’t ideal. Like I just didn’t have the energy left in the last 10 minutes of the climb. And he just kind of slowly slowly started riding away from me. So I lost a little bit of time, which wasn’t ideal, but I still had 11 seconds on him. Um that day was actually my birthday. Um so to be in the pink jersey on my birthday was was incredible as well. Um but going into that last day I was I was hyper aware of the situation. Um and what was happening and the last I would say they put the most difficult climb on the last day of the race. So like in the tour to France and the jur the big jurro if you usually go until the last day in the leader jersey you’ve won the race. this was not the case. Like they really shook it up on the last day for anything to happen. And that that photo actually is like 3k to go is like a really small little climb they had at the end on cobbles. And the guy who was behind me by 11 seconds is now ahead of me by 15 seconds. So actually on that climb I’m I’m not in the pink jersey anymore. And then on the finish line, they had a big enough of a gap. Him and actually the Norwegian guy who I chased down on the third day had a had a gap on me and the guy who was in second had enough time in the end. Um so at that point in that photo, my so I was solely focused of just riding as hard as I could to the end cuz you just didn’t know what could happen. Um but at the same time, I I knew it was slipping away from me. um which was yeah I can’t say it’s the best feeling in the world. So no it’s um it’s a it’s a shocking feeling to if you really want to put words into it sometimes cuz it’s like you’re like you say you’re you’re in the jersey on your birthday. You’ve got I guess all these backers behind you but sometimes it’s just doesn’t work out but I guess you cross the finish line. What’s I guess the first emotion or feeling that kind of comes comes to you at that point? I was disappointed. Like I was it it was it wasn’t really annoyance or anger or anything cuz we did everything perfectly like as a team. We were it was it was just perfect. And it was literally the last 30 seconds of this climb, this this big climb that they had in the day, the second time up it, I just I just lacked the last little explosion of power to follow the other two that somehow found this energy that I still cannot work out how they had that a kick like that. Um, so it was re it was it was just disappointing. just yeah I was just purely disappointed and I just was yeah the team were I I was the hardest person on myself. Obviously in the end the team would have been nice to win but they were still really overjoyed with how the whole week went and the end result but yeah I I really wanted to win it in the end. Um and yeah I was I was I was completely disappointed. I I it it felt like it felt like heartbreak. It was like it was just like I was so close and I’ve it’s it’s slipped away from me. Like you’ve just I lost it. Yeah. That’s in in simple terms. I just Yeah. It slipped out of my grasp. I guess you you look at it probably almost now a month from when that happened. Are you proud at the result and what you achieved or are you do you look at it and go what could have been? It took me a week after the race to finally start to see positives out of it. I was just like the week after I was just like and you’re kicking yourself and I was at night laying in bed and you’re just replaying if I did this differently on this day if this happened on this day. That’s just it’s just irrational thinking because there is nothing you can do and in the time you were going full gas so there’s nothing else you can do. So that was really after a week I would say and I started to get back on the bike after uh the sickness that I had straight after the race. And so she came here once I was back home. Um, and yeah, it was kind of I started realizing how big of a result it was. Um, and I remember I then was actually out on the bike the other day and I remember what I said to the team in October about what I wanted, what my big goals of the year was and it was to get podium in a one-day race in April called Leon Lege and I got eight. So I was I was pretty close to that and it was to podium the zero and I got second in the Euro which is the equal best result that an Australian has ever gotten in the race. And as disappointed as I was like now I find like at this point in time I’m like that was if you told me that at the start of the when we were at altitude camp in Andor that I was that would have happened in the race I would have said there’s just no chance. So it’s now I’m starting to go wow. Okay. And even after the race, mom was on the phone and she was like, “This is I know how disappointed you are and I’m not going to tell you how you should feel and how you feel is completely understandable, but what you have done it’s has changed your life, which which is true like yeah. So now now I’m now I’m feeling more okay about it and I’m sure with with more time I will feel better about it. So, but even now still a bit oh would have been really nice but yeah it’s just how sport is and how life is sometimes. I think that’s the thing and you you mentioned there like you’ve had that conversation with your mom and like you said like can’t can’t change what’s been but you’ve got to be really proud of I guess how far you’ve come and what you’ve achieved at that point. I guess for people to I guess try and understand it. you’re trying to get onto, I guess, the world tour, so get like a full professional contract post the race. Has there been any conversations or uh things like that that have progressed or have you been noticed a little bit more in that capacity? Well, there’s definitely in the race and post the race, there’s definitely interest then from other teams who are going, okay, like is this guy under contract? Is this something for that we can is this someone who we can pick up and bring onto our own team? Um I actually have a already had a contract with the development team for 2026 as well. Um and I’m I’m still committed to to staying in the development team for next year. But I mean as much as I can say is like uh this is where it was nice to have an agent cuz he was straight on it. like he he knows exactly what he’s doing and how to work around it all uh and everything. But there’s been conversations. There’s been there’s been positive conversations. So yeah, I can from my side, I can say that the talks are happening or have happened and and yeah, it’s it it’s a positive outcome. So it’s it’s a really exciting time for for you, Luke. I think you should be super proud of yourself. It’s uh it’s no mean feat what you’ve done and you’ve done a remarkable job representing Australia on the on the world stage. We’re u we’re coming to the end of the podcast. Hopefully I haven’t chewed your ear off just yet, but I’d love to I guess get some from your side. You’ve experienced a lot so far like being away from home, being in the European circuit, traveling. What’s been the best piece of advice that you’ve received from someone uh that’s helped you along the way so far? I’ve replay it’s funny you say this because I always when I when I’m out training and I’m thinking if someone gives you if someone asks me what’s the best piece of advice like what on earth am I going to say? Like it’s always a question that at some point it does get brought up and you get asked and you know people can just give like the the the generic answer of of ah got told to have just just enjoy it or have fun or you know enjoy training or get up early and do it and stuff. But I think the best piece and it’s very individual and it’s very niche in the way that it probably only applies to non-Europeans and it was if you’re making this step and you want to make this step, Europe is your home. Like Australia will not be your home for the next two decades if you if if that’s the long term. Like if this is your home. So act like it is. This is this is your life now. You’re not you’re not just going somewhere for a year and then you just get to go back home at the end of it. And if you’re constantly thinking about I can’t wait to go back to Australia. I can’t wait. You’re just doomed. Like it’s just so I think the best thing I got told is this is I can’t there’s been multiple people who who have mentioned it and it’s now something that I always think about now and it’s like this is your this is your base. this your Australia unfortunately is you know it’s quite sad to say because it’s who I am but Australia is not your home for the next foreseeable future and I think that advice then the advice then shifts into a mentality of yeah home home is Europe and that that’s just how it is and I’ve I’ve thankfully thankfully I’ve embraced it so it’s really exciting for you Luke and got the final question for you I’m actually going to throw to you so on the Sports Playbook, we ask all of our guests who you’d like to challenge to next see on the podcast. So, I’ll throw to you, Luke. Who would you like to next see come on to the Sports Playbook? It can be anyone in the cycling world. It can be rugby, AFL, whoever it is. Sam Constance, is that his name? the cricket the cricket uh the the guy who took Australian cricket summer by storm. Yeah. I think someone like like someone like that is like he’s kind of worked his way up the ranks like is a young guy has to deal with all these new pressures and environments of like you know his life changed overnight basically by getting that test start at the MCG like that. I mean on a much much much smaller scale my life has also changed after a week of racing in in Italy. But I think I think someone like that who has all eyes of Australia on like I think having someone like that that’s I think he has a few interesting conversations and experiences that he can speak on as a young guy who has gone yeah has gone through that process in the last 6 months. It’s a very good guest I’ll uh have to try and uh get on. That’s for sure. I I thought, you know, I could give you someone, but I got to give you a bit of a challenge. So, why not? Something to work towards. 100%. Well, Luke, I I really appreciate your time. You’ve been so transparent, and I feel like the viewers and listeners would get a great understanding, not only a to your journey, but also just the behind the scenes of cycling, getting to know more. So, well done. Your achievement. You should be so proud, and you’re representing Australia so well. So, thank you so much, Luke. Thanks, mate. No, thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks for uh thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.