In this episode. Rosa Maria Klöser takes us with her on her victorious 160 km solo ride at Iceland’s Monument of Gravel(™️), The Rift.
Rosa shares her last-minute decision to tackle this iconic race. Discover how she navigated the surreal lava landscapes, brutal climbs, and proper river crossings, ultimately making a bold move that secured her win.
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Topics in this episode:
First Impressions of Iceland & The Rift: Rosa’s extra special experience as a first-timer in Iceland, including witnessing a volcanic eruption and being captivated by the surreal nature.
Navigating The Rift’s Brutal Terrain: A detailed breakdown of the course, from early river crossings to chunky sections, and “walls” of climbs with pitches up to 22% on loose lava rocks, even encountering snow at 1500 meters of elevation.
Gear Talk: Insights into tire choices and the increasing prevalence of suspension forks in gravel racing. And why tightening valve cores is highly recommended.
Rosa’s premiere WorldTour Season: A talk about Rosa’s road career in the Women’s WorldTour, including picking up bottles from the wrong side of the car and how her sponsors and teammates look at gravel vs road racing in 2025.
Improving race conditions for pro women: We get into the recent discussion about the pro women’s races in the UCI Gravel World Series and some ideas for improving the status quo.
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Featured in This Episode:
Rosa Klöser: German Gravel Professional. Follow her journey on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rosaklsr
Thomas Euler: Your host and author of The Gravel Stack: https://thegravelstack.substack.com/ is also on Instagram: https://instagram.com/cookxride
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Don’t miss this captivating account of one of gravel cycling’s most demanding races!
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I’m Thomas and you’re listening to the Gracing Podcast where this week I’m joined by Rosa Kuza to talk all things the Rift. Obviously, she won this year’s edition of this epic race in Iceland, which as per my recently published list of the monuments of Gravel, even did end up getting monument status. and she tells us all her about her long long 160k solo ride and her experience over there in Iceland in the epic volcanic landscapes. And we also talk about her first season as a professional road racer in the women’s world tour as well as about some situations at starts of UCI gravel races especially the women’s pro women fields starts and how to improve those. Obviously, if you follow the sport a bit more closely, you came across some comments made by female professionals who raced at the Gravel 150 race, one of the UCI races, but it’s a situation that is experienced at a few races actually and something that we also talked about. Now, you are also going to realize that we are exclusively talking about the women’s race in this episode. That’s just due to scheduling hiccups. I didn’t manage to get someone from the man’s field on here in time. Already the episode is kind of a bit delayed. The men’s race of course also happened. It was won by Par Racings Magnus Baklaris and probably you came across some pictures and reports. Let’s see if I will still get somebody on to talk a bit more in detail about the man’s edition of the race. I certainly hope so, but at this point in time, I can’t make promises. So, you will hear everything from Rosa about what happened on the women’s side. Right. And then onto a last little topic. Something I wondered if I would even want to bring it up on the podcast, but then I thought, well, let’s just address it briefly. It’s a funny little story. Probably you came across this Instagram account, Paulvucc. At some point, they had a website. Now it’s mostly an Instagram account. They do a lot of Spanish and English language quote posts with quotes from some of the writers and it’s sometimes pretty useful. I never had anything bad to say about them and their content. But then it was brought to my attention that they created a post just today about the monuments of Gravel and they even talked about some of the stuff that we Paul and I discussed over here like could Badlands and a race like this be a monument and hey interact with this account and tell me what your monuments would be and the race selection was pretty much the same. And I found it funny because there was no attribution at all. And I made a little comment that was well, let’s be fair. I tried to be a little clever in there because I did what they didn’t do because I said, “Look, I need to borrow this gimmick from the Spin Cycle podcast from the friends at Escape Collective who have this black book where they put people who don’t attribute their content, their reporting, and just write about it and have this little list of media organizations who don’t play nice and who don’t do what you do.” Because of course you take stories, you take ideas, you run with them, but you do one little thing and that is you attribute. And especially in a community like ours here, Gravel, which is not huge, I think we are all trying to build something. We are all trying to get something done and take this little thing that is gravel and put it on a stage to make it more attractive to people because we all love it so much. And this in my mind at least demands collaboration and people who are in this game should collaborate and work together. And so yeah, I didn’t I didn’t quite like that they didn’t attribute it. And I said, look, congratulations for my first for the being the first in my black book. and then their their comment, their remark, you can read it all on the Instagram, which by the way I no longer can because they now ended up blocking me, which is hilarious, but it is what it is. I think it’s the first time I’m blocked by anybody anywhere on social media. But yeah, I was putting them in my blackbook remark told where people can find the original list, which to be fair, I put a lot of work in there, weeks of work actually. Um, but be that as it may, I would have liked a little shout out, but no, it turns out they never heard of this. That is their that is their line. And I think they write it. I no longer can read it. So I cannot even quote the comment response that I got, but it was more or less this year is the first time we heard of you and we never came across any of your publications. Which, well, if that is the truth, it’s a very interesting coincidence. And I can be blunt on here because if that is true, they will never hear this, never know about it. So whatever. But it I mean if that is the case, cool little coincidence. Could have made a fun story about it. Could have maybe jumped on a pot together and discuss it. But no, no, they told me, “Look, your tone is super off.” And I guess some people might say #revel beef. To me, not even worth the beef. But if you if you ever start doing some kind of content out there in the gravel world, just give attribution to people and try to build something together. It’s not like anybody is stealing from you, stealing the reach. I think that is totally the wrong mindset and you should build because the more people can find about the sport, the deeper we can go, the more interesting it gets. And that is all I want to say on that issue. And with that, let’s jump into my conversation with Rosa Klo. So now I’m joined by Rosa Klo. Great to have you on. We are going to mostly talk obviously about the Rift and I think it was your first time at this race. Is that correct? Yeah, first of all, thanks for having me. Uh, yeah, exactly. It was my first time at the Rift and also my first time in Iceland. So, extra special experience. I can imagine. I mean, I never made it to Iceland, but I did did once a tour around the Baltic Sea and all the people, whether the Danish people, Swedish people, everybody said, “Oh, you’re not going to Iceland. You you should.” Yeah. Uh, I think I can definitely second that. Um, as I said, like my first time in Iceland, um, I think this trip has been super special. Uh, already, uh, upon arrival, um, or just like after we landed, we could see a volcano erupting, uh, which is absolutely crazy. Um, especially, yeah, for a German that, you know, isn’t used to seeing active volcanoes. Yeah. Um, yeah, and yeah, the entire nature, it feels completely surreal. So definitely a big recommendation I think to everyone who who likes nature to uh to make that trip over to Iceland. So as it was your first time, what were your expectations and how dedicated was your preparation for the race? Yeah, to be honest, it was a quite a lastm minute decision to join the Rift. Um it wasn’t initially on my res race calendar. Um but I did eye this event already since last year because I saw the amazing image um imagery uh that came out of the event and um also talking to some of the people in the scene. Um, they told that they had a really good time and that yeah, the country is fantastic. And yeah, as I’ve never been to Iceland, it was kind of like on my bucket list, but I didn’t really know, especially also with my road calendar, um, that I kind of have to balance with my gravel calendar, um, if I could make it this year. Um, and I actually, uh, did a huge block of racing now. Um, so this was more or less on top, but I knew that I was in good shape. So yeah, usually I think it’s no secret when I line up uh I line up to try to win. So of course I was trying uh trying to also aim for the win um at um the Rift. Um but I didn’t do any special preparation. I came straight out of racing. Uh I raced the weekend before, the weekend before, the weekend before. So yeah, um no special preparation for the rift. And any course reconing that you did? When did you arrive in Iceland on what day? Yeah. Um I arrived um the night from Wednesday to Thursday. So we landed like just after midnight uh so uh Thursday early early morning and drove over. So then actually Thursday afternoon we had the chance to to make a little recon which was actually uh quite nice timing. So, we were quite late on the course, which was good though because um there was like uh a local um I don’t know like um from the government or something that was like kind of like trying to um prepare the course. I think for usual cars, it had nothing to do with the race. So actually um the course this year from what I’ve been told by the organizers by other racers was like way rougher already than like previous editions. But now they actually even sent like yeah this maintenance guy to um to the to the cause like not from the organization but just like yeah from local authorities to to prepare the uh some of the roads because some of those roads are actually used by Icelandic people to go to the huts or whatever. And so they loosened up the entire ground for like a stretch of like 30 km. So that meant they actually um the course became super loose, but they also like lifted rocks up. So it was super loose with lots of rocks. Um really lovely. And um yeah, luckily because we were so so late, we actually saw that they uh they did it. So we knew, okay, this is going to be actually a very rough race. So, we were like kind of mentally prepared for it. But I think in general, um I’m kind of known for always, uh making like wider tire choices. So, I was already planning on using uh 2.2 MTB tires, um adopts from Continental. And um so that only confirmed my choice. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, good timing then in terms of the in terms of reconing. um like take us a bit through the course. So from the outside like you already mentioned I mean it looks fantastic. It’s this lava landscape and I have the the rough data points available. It’s like 200 kilometers or for our uh empirical system using France 125 miles with a 2,600 m of elevation. So uh roughly what like 7 and a half thousand ft or so and uh it’s it’s again in this lava field landscape but from from a bit more detailed breakdown of the course what were like the key features and aspects that you took a look at even just from the profile or or I I don’t even know if you can use viewer in in this landscape. I suppose not but no actually that would be amazing right like if you would be able to use for gravel courses no I mean I don’t know if you can probably some sometime in the future but then again we have to also say in Iceland also on the course very often you do not even have reception um so I don’t know and I also think some of the parts of the course are so rough that you have to have special vehicles um like in general I think it’s really fun uh if if your board to to Google like Icelandic trucks because they have huge wheels. Um, and I actually even learned that some of them have similar to the graa system like self-inflatable systems. So, they can self-inflate the wheels because the chance of actually puncturing your wheels like on your car are super high in in Iceland. So, that’s a little fun fact. Um, no. Okay. So, the course breakdown. Um so in general the course started with like a 7k road section that was the one uh easy uh part of the day. Um and then it turned into a gravel section with the first river crossing already coming at like 15 kilometers. So you kind of had to be ready from the start because these river crossings they’re often pinch points where like you know early moves can happen uh because someone lets the wheel go or like someone makes a mistake and has to uncip. whatever. Um, and then the really rough section uh began. And just to just to jump in real quick on the river crossings, I don’t know which of the river crossings it was. I saw on Instagram, but I saw one with one of your fellow riders just falling right into it. And these are not like river crossings where like half your wheel or your wheel is underwater, but it’s like up to your waist properly. So, these are uh Yeah. Yeah. They’re proper river crossings. Yes. Like what what temperature does the water have? Is it like warm, super cold? No, it’s more cold, but that’s also funny. So, in parts it can be like um warm and then in other parts it’s like ice cold. Um so I also learned depending on like the color of water and like how dark it is um it can be warmer or colder. Um so yeah, that also different was different across the the water crossing but mostly cold. So, so share that with the people who plan on doing the rift. What color does warm water have and what color does cold water have? Yeah, I I don’t necessarily know exactly, but um I was told by Maria, she’s one of the locals from Iceland. Um um she was riding for Cafe Dist before. Um and she’s been doing this race like for since since its existence. Um she told me like when there’s black parts those are sometimes warm and um then uh yeah the the normal looking parts are usually the cold parts um which I found surprising as well um but um yeah I think it really also depends on the river crossing um and yeah how deep it is of course and also at which altitude it is because um yeah so going back to the course we kind of like started I don’t know at which exact meter we started But like around 5 600 m of of elevation or sea level and um then like after 25 km already there came like a significant like chunky section that like was more or less false flat with like a little uphill rise but like not really a climb yet. Um, but it was still already difficult because there were significant rocks which you had to kind of navigate around which made it really hard for drafting because if you were missing one of those rocks you could either yeah get a puncture crash whatever. So you had to kind of like really take your pick your lines. Um yeah and then after I think 35 km the first significant climb started. Um, and then the next climbs were like more shorter punchy climbs. Like I don’t want to call them climbs, I want to call them walls. Um, they were so What percentage are we speaking? Uh, like one of them I actually had to walk. I think everyone had to walk. Uh, I think it went up to 22%. Um, completely crazy. And that on loose lava rocks, right? So you don’t even have traction. So that that’s like really hardcore. So I think some people might have seen pictures of us like pushing the bikes. Um yeah, that was really significant. And of those kind of caliber climbs, there were multiple but a little bit less steep. So I could actually uh ride mo like all of them beyond that one. And then um later I think around the uh then there was like after like the midway point there was like a lot of descending and then some washboard even um that we had to ride over. And then in the second part of the course around like 130 another set of like significant climbs started um and and steep walls up to the heckler which is like the the highest point there which was actually on 1,500 m. So actually on top there was snow. Um so we were actually riding uh through snow as well which was kind of uh crazy. Um and then uh from there it was more or less like false flat descent maybe a few rollers a few kickers uh to the finish line. So with that cost profile in mind, probably most people who are listening to this already heard about the way in which he won, which was going solo with uh what 140 kilometers to go roughly? 160. So after 35. Yeah. Yeah. So So quite a long solo. Was that your plan from the get-go? Yeah. I mean not necessarily to be honest. Um I mean I knew that like from from how I’m describing it I think some some people can imagine that this course is quite rough. So maybe being in a large group is not necessarily advantageous. Um so you rather want to be in a small select group because then you can actually pick your lines. Um that being said though there were fast sections as well. So, I mean, some draft would have been nice, but um yeah, I could quickly tell in the group that um that everyone was like mentally aware that this would be like a hard day. So, I feel like a lot of people were trying to um yeah um maintain energy from the start and like not invest too much. So, how many pro women did actually start? Because I checked that 18 finished, but how many how many were there at the start roughly? Do we talk like around this 20 25 or was it more like 50? I would I think over 30 for sure, but um there was quite a high um non-finisher rate due to various reasons. Um a lot of like punctures, unfixable mechanicals, um some crashes. Um yeah, one one racer she crashed on her face um and and had to get stitching, but she’s okay luckily. Um and then yeah, so I think the terrain unfortunately can can yeah finish your race. So I think around 30. Yeah. And then there are definitely some of the let’s call them heavy hitters with whom you already had some interesting fights and counters this season at the start line as well. So what is your thinking there? So we have for instance G sh we have Anika Langad at the start line. We have Morgan Agiri. Um I don’t know who else is on your list of people to watch and and wheels to not let go. But it is your is your thinking to make it super selective with a few of those rather than than going solo with 160k to go I would assume. Uh yeah. So um what I could notice that um at one point as I said like I feel like people were trying to like yeah keep energy levels high or like you know reserve a lot of energy um um for the course. So no one was really willing to work at the front and um so the pace was really out like was really slow and then I eventually found myself being on the front almost like non non-stop. So I was like okay I mean instead of just like riding the front um I will try to even thin out the group. So uh I I put a little bit of a higher pace and I think that already reduced the group um a little bit and then I tried to like you know motivate people to come through and no one wanted to. Um and um I mean I already had my fair share of experience from like also like uh team uh play and team dynamics in races like this year um that that often worked against me. Um so so I knew that I did not necessarily want to have both Anika and G in my group. Um so um yeah then I just decided like after 35 km that I would um yeah ride like I didn’t like crazy attack them but like I just like really put a strong pace and as I said like there were a lot of rocks um so I kind of like um navigated around them and had a like small gap and then I think no one like immediately immediately reacted but then I think G reacted and and tried to close the gap but Um yeah. Um so then I actually pushed even more because I decided, okay, if she closes the gap, she has to work for it. Um or they have to work for it. And um then um already after 2 or 3ks after I kind of Yeah. attacked um the first climb started. Yeah. And then um on the climb I just went into my own pacing and then the gap really opened up um significantly. And uh as I was over the climb, I think it was quite a long one, like five or seven kilometers of um of climbing. Um maybe not like constant climbing, a few like downhill dips in between. Um I was over the top and I looked back and I couldn’t see anyone for like a really long time. And then when I um saw the first time people, they told me that the gap must be around 2 minutes. And then I knew, okay, um, for someone to close a 2-minut gap, um, and I knew that they were trying. I mean, uh, then I knew, okay, if someone closes this 2-minute gap, they might be on their limit to close it. So then maybe they can’t even help me anymore at the front. So then I decided to just commit um, and and write my own pace. Long day out for sure. For sure. I I mean I can also get that you probably like if there are we not even talking road 160k to go right it’s like as you described already it’s nasty terrain super rough um super challenging and then especially if you have like your specialized teammates or whatever in the back it becomes like you could think that’s probably crazy to go solo so early and we will catch up to her anyways and then probably nobody really commits, but in the end you capitalize on this kind of group two syndrome where nobody wants to fully fully commit or all you need is like the power to to then do it for for those 160k which apparently and and good on you. You did you did have um like on your on your day out then what is your mindset? You committed your your racing did you encounter any like tough stretches out there? Yeah, actually. So, um I think the group behind me, like afterwards, I saw it, uh was actually quite a good group. So, there were six girls trying to chase me. So, G, uh Anika, Axel, I think, um Morgan, Nicole, Fran, and a couple of more. So, it was actually a pretty good group. Um and um so, I I was for sure not certain that they would not catch me back. And then actually so the race like the gravel earth series they always do like a good job at like trying to you know give us our own race. So they actually let the elite men start 30 minutes behind us. So at kilometer 90 where like a really steep climb came um I saw the the the organizers on top and I wanted to know a gap and no one told me a gap but I just heard something yeah behind you. And then I assumed that they meant that the girls were behind me. And to be honest, in that moment, I went into like kind of panicky mode because I just did like a really good pace. Um, and uh, I was kind of certain that no one could match this pace. So I was like, how on earth did they close this down? Um, so when I got over the top, um, uh, I I actually like, you know, slowed down for 10 20 seconds because I was ready for them to catch me. And, uh, then when I looked to the left, I could see Thiago Fera and Alex Miller from SWAT. And it was them. And I was like, okay, good, good. It’s, it’s the front group men that actually passed me because they were also going up this or running up this climb in a pace that I was like, wow. um that I was like really impressed and um yeah then I was quite relieved when they passed me and um some of the guys that passed me because until then I hadn’t heard like a time gap for like 40 50k and then some of the elite men came by one of my teammates Pavo and also Luis Nef they really motivated me and told me Rosa there’s nobody just keep going just keep going and then that really motivated me I must say um yeah that was Nice. I I mean sounds uh sounds like a yeah pretty good day then that you are that you had out there. Now looking back at the looking back at the race and obviously the cause I I don’t know if you had the chance even to enjoy the views and the scenery but also I assume you cannot not recognize and realize it because it’s like very different from most other terrains we we know from from riding. But um how would you how would you classify the race overall? And the the reason why I’m asking I recently did this little gimmick where I first introduced like a ranking or classification system for gravel races. And then I just I I think last week released my monuments of gravel racing. And of course there can only be five monuments like we know it from the road. And after a lot of consideration I gave the final spot to the rift actually. Um and I think media coverage. So so I considered various factors for what does a race need to be? It needs to be very very iconic in the context of gravel. Right? We’re not talking about the discipline with like the 100 plus year of history like on the road where races exist for for uh yeah 10 decades and and more but in the context of grow some some picks are easy like unbound like the trucker um and then some you you can have arguments and again the final spot came to the rift mostly because a it is very iconic people who race it seem to love it and also to describe it as a super hard course out there. Then one further set of criteria is the depth of field like to be a monument you need to have a super hitter coded field out there and we can and I think the rift also increasingly qualifies for this with the start list this year. Last year it was already pretty strong mostly Europeans. you don’t see like the top US pros making the the trip over usually are not many of them which also is like from a calendar position usually with let will uh uh coming up pretty soon makes it hard to attend it but so telling you all this do you think that is a fair classification you’ve raised many of the the races um or do you think it is not not a monument I mean now that you won it you probably should give it monument status on your list. Yeah. I mean, alone for the roughness, I mean, I think it really qualifies um as being one of the roughest races. I think I mean, to be honest, I think a lot of people say that Unbound is a hard race, but I I don’t think it’s a hard race. For me, it’s a road race. like um Unbound has like um a few chunky sections, but actually this year with all the teams really like you know um looking at the course um even the rough sections weren’t as rough anymore. It’s a super cool race and it is a hard race because it’s a long race like not not to give take any way anything away from it but um it’s not rough like as Icelanders or even the trackers. Um and I would say like if I would rank these three in terms of roughness I would say yeah the third spot goes to Unbound then second Traa and then the roughest of them all from a terrain perspective is definitely Iceland. Um, and I think um, yeah, it also like if you look at everybody’s bikes, um, everyone had like either MTB tires, a suspension for I’, I think I’ve never seen as many love bikes, of course, because the the bikes are also from Iceland, which was super cool to see actually that so many like Icelandic people had these bikes. And I think you can see that and I think that is also like for me that is really interested in like equipment. It’s super interesting to see that like manufacturers actually adapt their bikes uh specific to the terrain. Uh which I find very inspiring and cool to see. And I think some of the bike brands that have some catching up to do in the gravel scene, they should should go to these places like Iceland or to Jirona to actually look at these courses and understand what the demands of a gravel bike are, right? [Music] So for me it’s definitely iconic and I think um if you’re an elite racer or an amateur like I think as you said like even though the train is so rough you cannot not notice it like even if you’re in full race mode like you’re you’re stunned like all the time like you’re thinking oh this this looks cool oh now I feel like I’m riding on the moon wow is this a green waterfall or is this mo like what is this and then oh there’s snow like um so it’s like pretty cool uh I must say and I think also I must say that Gerbal Earth series in general but they did like also I think a really cool job at capturing the race like I think from from like an outsiders perspective was fun to follow like I mean I was inside the race but like my my parents or also my friends told me it was like fun fun to follow and also yeah the the images that came out of it. So I think um as you said with also the increasing starter list um I think it definitely um becomes one of the bigger events and I could actually even see that some of the US racers would join potentially in the coming years because actually Iceland for US people is not too crazy of a trip because um it’s kind of like the halfway point. Um, so they usually can catch direct flights and um, so I could definitely see that at one point um, more people would also come there. I I mean as we are now in the age of increasingly more live streams, I think that is potentially the one thing the rift will not manage to do even though I didn’t test like the Starling connection because that is a game changer when it comes to broadcasting gravel races. Definitely. So maybe that is going to be possible. But yeah, as you say, like from the coverage, we are used to following races on Instagram mostly. And when it comes to to this, the Rift like most earth series is very well presented and it it has all the ingredients to become one of the most iconic races in the space. It’s all already I think the first edition was 2019, so it’s well established. I think it’s a household name. like if people from the states talk about European races, the rift is is usually on there. So I guess yeah, I I deliberated a lot and I think it’s fair to justify the selection of the race. I’m glad that you agree. Now back to this edition. Did you hear any other stories from the field behind you that are worth sharing on here? Yeah. Um wow. What can I share? Maybe a special shout out to to my friend and also racer Morgan. Um she uh she had like an unlucky mechanic. Um so maybe that’s also a shout out for for every gravel racer or like for us girl racers in general that like we usually are own mechanics or um that we usually take care of our bikes ourselves. So she might have forgotten to to tighten her w core. Um, so actually she managed, which is almost incredible, she managed to kind of run flat um on the neutral/road section with her 2.2 uh mountain bike tires. Um, and which kind of were like a recommendation from me. So I did feel a little bit bad when I initially heard that she flatted because I was like, you recommended a mountain bike tire to her and now she’s flatting. Um, but luckily it wasn’t a real flat. It was just like that the w core came loose so she could fix it more or less quick within like two two three minutes and then because the the start of the race was quite slow she she managed to come back to the group which uh but I think it should still um it still deserves a special shout out um that she didn’t give up and that she she managed to come back and even then in the end managed to get third which I think is pretty pretty cool. Um, and yeah, I think like in terms of in terms of gear, did you see any interesting gear? Cuz you’re Is that like even car tires flat on the regular? I this system that Mariana Fos ran at the Gravel. Yeah. Um, I I assume that is not yet largely used by Gravel privateeers because they don’t sponsor any and the price point is probably cost prohibitive for the time being. But and you said suspension forks, you saw several. I mean I I mean they are becoming a thing now. Like of course you’re with Canyon. Canyon just released uh not their own fork but the the fork they exclusively have from DT Swiss until the end of the year. Did Did you run it by the way? No, I did not because I was riding the Grizzle. Um and from my knowledge um the fork was designed for the grail only. Um exactly. So, um, so it didn’t fit into the bike. For me, the reasoning was that I wanted to also run a big tire in the rear. So, that’s why I decided to go for the grizzle after all. Um, exactly. And also because I didn’t have an like time testing the fork yet. Um, but I think um my teammate PA um in a man’s race ran it. Then I saw that Sophie Wright, the guy, the girl that took the bath. She ran a suspension fork as well. Then lots of girls that were on love, like Meline Nut and I think Nina, they were running the La fork. Um, yeah. Then Anika Lang, she was on the Diverge, which doesn’t like have a full suspension, but they have like at least like a little susp suspension in the rear and kind of suspension system in in the front. Um and um yeah, I think there were others. Um so that was pretty cool to see uh for sure. Yeah, Nathan H was running uh I think a new uh new suspension fork on his Kolenago. I spotted that um as well. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, I’m glad that slowly I see like let’s take the the German manufacturers who discovered gravel early on and built pretty solid bikes since a bit. Um like many European brands with a heritage on the road for for a long time and even to this day release bikes that clear 45 mm tires max. And of course there are different courses and I think Gravel is the one where where different horses for different courses is a very true saying. But then if if brands like Konago now have suspension corrected geometry or even bikes that come with a fork. Yeah, it’s definitely where where we are headed and then causes like like what you described definitely justify having more suspension than wide tires. Yeah. Yeah. for I mean for sure like I mean uh the the course at the end I must say my entire body hurt because it was so rough and I think a lot of other people experience the the same thing. So I think the more suspension you can have the better if it’s like through an actual suspension fork or through uh through rider tires. Um, actually now that you said it, I saw that even um, I think especially for people that take this on more as like an experience, I could even recommend like a hard tail with like maybe a drop bar. Um, one of the pro elite men was also riding that setup and I actually think it’s it’s kind of a smart idea. Um, of course you have to make sure that your hot tail is not super heavy. Um, because there was significant amount of climbing, but um, yeah, I think um, that that’s the cool thing about Gravel, right? Like that there’s no onesizefits all solution and that kind of your equipment choice also plays a little bit into your racing strategy and like with everything like tire choice, even chain ring size. Um, yeah. So, I think that’s uh, for me that’s pretty cool. Um, yeah. Talking about gravel racing, I’d like to talk a bit about your world tour career that started, but to take people a bit back, I guess you’re kind of the poster child for gravel racing in the sense that you in your rather short and incredible career, you basically started gravel racing, went to Unbound, just happened to win Unbound. Um and then you went to Canyon and I think because this move to to Canyon that’s the story that you told in some podcasts there was the connection to the Canyon Stram world tour team and then the idea was born that probably you should race there which you decided to take on and before that you didn’t have if I if I remember correctly a huge amount of road racing especially at the top level experience. I think in your in your origin story, you did some road racing in Denmark back when you studied there and you did like the the German nationals last year with also already pretty pretty good result. Um, how is the quote unquote transition or you’re not leaving Gravel um for the time being, but how is the adaptation to road racing going? Yeah. Um, no. Yeah, I think uh what you said is is correct. Um yeah, it’s been a super interesting journey and also yeah to to get like the behind the scenes of the world tour racing or road racing more in um and I think it’s it’s been going quite well and I I’m learning from race to race. Um I um recently participated in the tour to Swiss so my first stage race ever. Before that, I actually did Rub Par, which also was like a crazy experience. Sant you did. Yeah, Santa stage race. It’s true. True. But like road stage racingh in four days. Um and um then um then I did yeah nationals again. Um so quite some road racing now. And yeah, it’s been it’s been really interesting and good. And I could also see for myself that actually like the stage racing really suits me which um maybe as a gravel racer yeah makes kind of sense um because you usually are known for having quite a good fatigue resistance and so you’re able to perform over multiple days. Um, so that was really fun to see that this actually held true. And um, yeah, I mean, I’m I’m just noticing that I’m getting way more comfortable in in the bunch. Um, I think I was always like naturally um by instinct quite quite good at positioning, but of course like um there’s a huge learning curve and and I’m progressing there as well. um and um getting stronger um more smart but also like learning basics right which um usually you learn by going up through the ranks. Um but uh so at the Twitter Swiss for the first time in my life I actually properly went back to a car to pick up like you know six seven bons and ice and then had to make my way back to the bunch and bring that. I must say the first time I totally went to the wrong side of the car, tried to pick up the bullets from the wrong side of the car because which which honestly I appreciate so much, but they they like to also let me fall into the ice cold water and like not give too much instruction. So that was actually quite good learning. Um and the first time I remember I was so stressed. I was like maybe I get dropped now. I will never make it back to the bunch. But yeah, of course that didn’t happen. But um after that I got way more relaxed and then it worked really well. Um but yeah those are cool experiences and um also yeah to just work with the team. Uh we had a really good squad uh at the tour to Swift with with with Kasha and it’s uh really cool to to write for such a strong leader who’s also really good at giving specific instructions like I want to lead out into this climb. please do this and this and now you piss off now I’m going on this wheel. So that’s really really good um and really inspiring. What skills that you pick up there do you think impact your gravel racing positively or maybe even negatively? Yeah, I mean in general to to get a better sense like strategic racing sense. Um but also to to make bold decisions. And I mean I think for me uh until this year sometimes I had like this issue with like really committing like uh for instance corn attack um that I always like try to leave something in the tank because I wasn’t like really confident in uh in my own abilities maybe and um to to really know okay if I do like a two five or 20 minute effort where I’m like going hard and it’s hard for me it will be hard for the others. So, um to to be more aware of this um and um but also to be smart to when you actually have to ride at the front and when maybe it’s okay to take a rest and and take a gel and and you know calm down a little bit that for sure you learn um in in road racing. Um but then again also um you learn the differences like in road racing um there’s way more these periods of really intense efforts and really easy efforts whereas in gravel especially race like the rift is there really ever a super easy effort? I don’t know like because you know the surface doesn’t really allow for it. Um, so while sometimes in the bunch uh I can ride at like 100 watts, that’s not really possible at the rift. Um, yeah. So, so you also like learn these differences and and of course I mean of course one more thing uh between road racing and gravel racing is while there’s like teams popping up in gravel racing, it’s still not the same. like uh in road racing you really like deliberately let the breakaway go, right? And you usually are able to control it. Um and maybe that was also something um for me in like unbound where I’m like whatever like we’ll easily you know get them back. Uh but of course if you have um germ racers who are all looking for their own results in the end of the day even though they’re so-called teammates um sometimes they still don’t want to collaborate. So that’s that’s quite different. Yeah. I mean we don’t have domestique so far. So people are not paid to domestique and so they won’t and that is the the one of the major differences and the terrain. But like it’s funny that in earlier on you said like Unbound is a road race because I think it’s like one of the gravel races where road tactics can apply more because bunch racing the the the streets are wide, there is less single track sections and so on. So yeah, it’s still like like a different surface but definitely one of the races where this could be useful and I definitely expect that in the upcoming years we will see domestics in gravel and on certain courses that makes a lot of sense. on others not so much because it’s a different style of racing. Um, so now in this setup that we talked about where you are now on the Canyon Swam World Tour team and I think still a privateeer in gravel on on Canyon. How do you perceive in your situation the relevance of gravel for sponsors and your sponsors specifically compared to the road? So is there a pull that that they say come to the road that is where you’re super valuable or is it even different that they say no no no you need to do the big gravel races because that is really where you’re where you are valuable as an athlete to us. Yeah, I definitely think um that they see the value in both. Um especially I think it’s no secret that uh for Canyon uh gravel is super important. Um I mean in general for bike manufacturers um a huge amount of their revenue comes from the gravel segment. So um along with that we can explain why that segment is interesting and valuable for them. Um and um so for them it’s it’s really important that I’m part of the the biggest gravel races and that we can represent uh the brands um at the gravel races. And I think also even for for my brands, I think sometimes it’s like um for some of my main sponsors like Kenyon and Stram, they’re like both in the world tour team and my sponsors on on Gravel. And for them it’s also like exciting to see like I have a really good relation like personal relationship with most of my sponsors and um we exchange messages after road races and gravel races and they find it like on a personal level interesting to like kind of follow the differences and and kind of see how it goes on both terrains. So for them from from what I’m understanding and learning it’s it’s valuable on both. Of course, like on a personal level, I’m I’m probably at this stage still like mainly a gravel racer for them. Um, yeah. And inside the team, how are the other girls and women on your team looking at your gravel adventures? Do you hear questions about it? Are they curious and interested in it? Or is it more like gravel? Yeah, like after my career I can dabble in rebel racing. How is it? No, very much so. I mean, uh, if you look at my team in general, I think I need to say Ken Shramm, Zonor Crypto, they have like a super open approach to races in general. Like, if you look at the history of the team, um, with how they’ve acquired talent, I think they’re one of the teams who really looks beyond like just road racing results. I mean uh alone the swift academy that is an essential part of Kenyan tram like so each year someone completely with like no proper road racing background mostly uh is selected through like an ecling um competition to join uh join the road team and then um actually if you look at the history of our team we even have the gravel world champion with Kasha in our team then um so from 2023 and then Tiffany Cromwell She’s also a very established gravel racer and actually a lot of the other girls have like been talking to me about maybe joining me uh for a race here and there. It hasn’t really like been taken place yet, but I for sure know of at least two or three of them that will join the gravel worlds for sure. Um which will be super fun and very useful. Speaking of domestics, I mean I don’t know the cost, but if it’s in the Netherlands, I could assume well it could also be very narrow bike lane kind of path. Do you know anything about the cost already? Uh yeah. Yes, I’ve I’ve looked at it. Um it it will be in the Netherlands um as as you said and um for sure there’s there’s um there’s definitely some space for for team tactics um to play uh in that kind of course because as you as you correctly said in the Netherlands um it’s always uh uh a good amount of flat stretches in between. Um but of course also some narrow roads, some punchy clims um so yeah, I think it will be interesting. Um from from what I’ve seen I think um there is a more significant part gravel this year than compared to last year. Um but um yeah um yeah I’m excited to see how it plays out. Yeah, I guess most people are may maybe some people who neglect the importance of of this event in the grand scheme of gravel not so much but in Europe I think it matters a lot. Yes. Yes. Yes. No. For sure. So, one last topic I would like to briefly address because it was one of the bigger storylines in Gravel recently. Um, you did, speaking of the the UCI and European racing, you did the Gravel 150. Um, also in the Netherlands, I believe two weeks ago. Time is running quick these days. Um, and afterwards, so I saw the results. I saw you finished second just behind Fam Marcos. And then very quickly the posts came out. I think the first one that I saw was from Nicole Fra who described her race and that she saw a lot of crashes caused by the age group men who just started a few minutes um after you in the elite women’s field started and then the posts kept coming and one of the vocal and very important voices in Gravel is yours. So instead of me recounting what I read on Instagram, probably you can give a little overview of what you saw and what the the main problem that needs to be solved by gravel races in general and I think UCI races in particular. Yeah. No, thanks uh for giving this opportunity to talk about it. Um, firstly I want to say and I I really hope I brought this across uh in my post as well. I think for me it’s really important that we don’t just like criticize individual events or like put hate on a specific organizer. Uh because in the end of the day I’m really convinced that each organizer tries their best and I mean they try to give an opportunity to us elite writers but also to all amateurs and people that just like would like to participate in a race. So I think um that also needs to be credited and um good on them right and I think also what I would like to to take away before I speak about the critical points is that we also have to always be a little bit aware of our um conditions right so in the Netherlands um that it’s not possible to organize a race in a completely remote local area is also clear right that this will have more logistical challenges and is a tougher ask on the organizer I think is also clear. So I just want to put these things ahead. Um yeah so the the race situation was the following. Um the elite women started I believe 2 minutes behind the elite men and then 5 minutes after this the um age group 19 to 34 and then all the other age groups. Um what must be said here is that in other UCI races we often have a similar setup like with almost exactly the same gaps. Um even though I must say in the UCI races that I did prior to this one for instance the one in Luxmbourg the groups starting behind us were more like the age group 50 to 54. Why am I shouting this out? Is because um naturally, no offense to anyone, but normally 19 to 34 year old men go a bit faster than 50 to 54 year old men. I hope no one takes this as an offense, but that’s I think just true. Um so um yeah letting us start and even if in individual cases it’s not true. I mean you much rather get get caught by two super fast 50 year olds than by I don’t know 50 uh very fast under 30 riders. Exactly. Exactly. And I think that’s a really good point you’re making here. And um I think that’s also something again to the condition of the course. So for instance the race in Luxmbourg it started with a 8 km climb. Um usually I think uh I would say like uh the top end elite women um they uh they climb equally fast or even faster than the the winners of the 50 to 54. So if you’re caught, you’re caught maybe by one or two people as you correctly pointed out. But if we’re going on a completely flat course and then the 19 to34 age group starts behind you, then the issue emerges that a pelaton of women is caught by a pelaton of men which really creates situations for dangerous passing. So I think in these kind of races we need to be even more deliberate about these starting uh blocks than in hilly races because of the dangerous situations. Right. So I think yes like I think I’m one of the big advocates for women only races and I really really like to race dynamically actively. I’m I think I’m always known for one to try to make the race active and I like it to be separate but I also do see that sometimes organizations they have only limited permits and we need to like you know work with this but if we have a flat race we need to be more careful about these setups. So that’s that’s the first thing and um so the situation in the Netherlands was then that exactly what I said uh I think um a large group of us was called by a large group of men and at this point um it really becomes about um you know being able to position at the front of the race and I mean also I could see like it’s true and this is unfortunate but it’s an advantage if maybe racers know you like I see that for instance um when I was at the front um the the writers some of them knew me because I’m a more established razor and maybe also even F Marcos because she was wearing a word for kit. So then the men maybe are a little bit less um hectic about getting ahead of us because they know okay they know of these girls so they maybe assume we’re more capable of holding the wheel. Um, what I need to say here is I in my perception I didn’t really read it. That’s why I want to like twist a little bit the words that you said before. Um, I don’t want to say that the age group has caused the crashes. Um, but I just want to say that the hectic situation and the chaos created crashes. Uh, I think at this point it’s irrelevant who caused the crash. um because each of us wants to be there and wants to race and I don’t think that anyone deliberately tries to crush each other out but I think just the pure chaos of like different speed differentials overtaking each other causes these situations. Definitely. And I mean I from from do doing like in the normie amateur fields some of these races and events like the the for instance just while you were doing the rift I was at the Ratam ring doing the gravel race there and they started like the 100k course and then uh rather quickly like the people doing the 50 the shorter distances but who then also if they are ambitious going very fast in the they they catch up. And this means like that was also a lap like a circuit course and like the first lap is always super hectic and it can be sketchy and whoever causes the like the it’s a dynamic field. You have many people doing different things on like loose terrain and that is creating the situation which just makes it makes it dangerous and then people don’t know each other. they are in different races that that just creates dynamics that lead to crashes. Exactly. But of course then it’s like um so to get back to the point that a lot of us female racers made, it’s like it becomes a little bit uh a game of who’s the best at positioning much more than maybe who has the best legs and also a bit luck because I also had like two two people um to in this case randomly it could have been a woman but in this case it was a man that uh overshoot the corner and blocked me. So luckily I was always in first position in the group um of the female riders. So I always could still make the split. But maybe if I would have been in third position and someone would have crashed or like you know overshot the corner in front of me, I would have missed that group, right? Um so yeah, that’s that’s like first of all like from the fairness perspective, but then also of course from the risk perspective. Um not nice. And then another point that really like for me was even more like yeah let’s say um challenging or like traumatizing was the huge amount of cars on the course um that that really created dangerous situations which again I totally understand that in in the Netherlands this is much much harder um but I must say um from what I heard and that’s why I also understand like the reaction from some of the male elite racers. saw the front part of the men lead. This wasn’t the situation because they always had a lead moto. So this lead moto could of course um guarantee safe passing but because actually at the start when our race started we also had a lead moto but then once we were like you know mixed with the age groupers this lead moto couldn’t recognize anything anymore which not not the fault of anyone. Um but then there was no lead moto anywhere. Um and then of course these situations created and I actually received messages from people who told me that they and big shout out to them. they stepped up as like guards who just blocked the roads because they could see that the roads weren’t blocked and um so yeah that’s why the criticism emerged from from us elite racers that we would uh we would like to have like a more safe and more uh yeah selective racing ground that makes it more fair for everyone because maybe I just like to summarize this. So the final for us created a situation that was really yeah really for everyone because with like 5 600 m to go. So I was left in a group of fa and maybe like 15 of the the front age groupers of the 19 to 34 and with 5 600 m to go we went into a group of like 25 30 riders that were racing on a shorter distance as you explained. same same situation as for you and so we were going onto the finish line with a group of 45 people. So it was for the age groupers 19 to 34 who were trying to do their sprint. It was incredibly for the seniors who were just trying to also win their races but also you know um didn’t want to be overtaken. And then of course for me and FA like uh I reviewed the footage afterwards how we were like sprinting through the men. it was complete carnage like um at the end uh like that was really not nice. Um so um again that being said um I think um there’s a lot of improvement potential and um it is what it is and I think it’s wrong to just point the finger at one specific organizer but I think more as a collective we should see like what could be done to to also allow for races in maybe more populated areas. Should we then maybe really consider making it a lap like a shorter loop which is much more easy to monitor and maybe because we make a shorter loop then we also have the permit um to to increase the gaps between uh different age groups. Um, so yeah, I’m I’m trying to take the feedback. I got really nice feedback from multiple people and um I’m trying to forward it as good as I can because I think yeah, trying trying to make it better is in the end what will make everyone happy. Yeah. And and like you say, it’s not necessarily a super easy situation because um individual organizers try their best. they get some guidelines by the UCI but these are limited in certain like I think starting procedure if I’m not mistaken they can more or less decide themselves so they have flexibility which is also good right like different different terrains and different regulations in different countries in Europe they probably need some flexibility but then I believe there should be some kind of some kind of supervision by the UCI that makes it so that situations like these are avoided. And I think that goes especially for the UCI series, not only because it qualifies you to eventually compete in the official World Championships, but also because like the the the way they want to develop the series with like the series overall becoming more of a relevant thing, even though probably not like in the global gravel scene, not as important so far as something like Gravel Earth or Lifetime Grand Prix, but I think that is also changing and in the end if sponsors start caring more about it then racers will as well. But then even more so we need fair conditions for the the women races and independent races there. And how to achieve it probably is a case by case basis. But to me it would be important to see the the UCI or I I mean they are not hands-on organizing or creating the umbrella for these events. there is an an agency in between that is doing this but I think that needs to become a a topic of concern and steps need to be taken to improve the situation and that is what I think can be very fairly asked and then let’s see how good the results are also think yeah of course like many of these races are in their first or second edition this year so yes there will be a learning curve and yes mistakes will be made because they don’t have like the the in the case of the more established European race six, seven years and then if we go to the US like like 15 years or so history of running these events but progress needs to be made and that I think can be asked. Was I one? Oh, go ahead. Sorry. No, no. I just wanted to to completely agree with you and I also wanted to say that I think a lot of organizers they they’re really trying like um I can just make an example. For instance, in the race in Luxmbborg, the organizer actually reached out to some of the elite um females before to ask, okay, hey, we have these restrictions with the timing. when and after which age group do you think it could be make sense to start? Um and then they try to to navigate this and in the end um so as I said we I think we start before the either 45 or 50 age group and um it wasn’t ideal because um some of us went so fast on the climb that we immediately caught like the age group that was ahead of us and then we were kind of blocked and had to go in between them. But at least it was then again as we said just like a few individuals trying to overtake a few individuals that were scattered. But we kind of like provided that feedback or the organizer actually messaged me after the race and asked like hey like how do did you feel about the race? Um what are the things that we can improve uh next year and I think that’s why I think it’s also so important to stay constructive in this conversation because I do think that most organiz I mean who wants that press like nobody wants that right? Everyone wants like a nice popular event and wants actually the participants to be happy. Um so I think yeah staying staying in open but critical in a well conversation with the organizer goes from my experience a long way. Yeah. Yeah. Couldn’t agree more. I have a last final and very important question for you. How jealous, how disappointed were you when your partner got invited to the Holy Spirit of Gravel podcast before you did? Oh, so jealous. No, no, no. I was I was happy. It was uh it was so funny because uh apparently it was a complete coincidence. Um so um maybe a little bit of a background story for people who don’t know. Yeah. So, the holy spirit of growl um is this fun meme in page account. I think you guys already talked about it a lot. And um she she looked at the unbound results and she wanted to kind of like get an impression from someone in the midfield how it felt like racing. And then by coincidence uh she selected I think racer number 35 or 36 result. And that happened to be my partner Paul uh who then got invited to to the podcast um and had his first podcast appearance. Uh, no, that was real fun because usually he’s listening to my podcast. So now I had the opportunity uh to to do it in reverse roles which was quite nice. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. That was kind of an inside joke that I that I had to take into the pot because because uh when when I found this out, I messaged her and I said, “Look, Rosa will be will be very pissed and then probably because you are a supporter of the account and maybe uh this will turn you into a detractor knowing all the pain that you feel.” Oh, good. Of course. Good. Cool. So on that note, if you have any final words or thoughts, now would be the moment to share them. Otherwise, well, let people know where they can find and follow you, which probably most people do at this point in time, but just in case, pluck what you got to plug. Nice. Yes. Yeah, for sure. Uh like mostly active on Instagram, uh Rosa KLSR. Um, so if you want to give a follow, I’m trying to stay active. Uh, have really good support with my partner who tries to to make some cool uh race footage and imagery and maybe we’re going to add some new format soon, but that that will then be launched on Instagram. So yeah, cool. People will be excited. Watch out for the new cool stuff. Thank you.