Fonduri Europene pe Înțelesul Tuturor – Banii UE explicați simplu de Ovidiu Tuduruță

🎯 EPISOD EXCLUSIV cu Ovidiu Tuduruță – specialist în fonduri europene care îți arată EXACT cum să accesezi LEGAL banii UE pentru afacerea ta! Filmarea specială de la Dealul Goleștilor.

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✅ AI în România: Oportunitate sau pericol?

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⏰ TIMESTAMPS COMPLETE (1h 26min):

🎯 INTRODUCERE & EXPERT
0:00:08 – Prezentarea expertului și locația specială
0:01:13 – Background: 15+ ani experiență fonduri UE

🚀 TEHNOLOGIE ASISTIVĂ (UNIC!)
0:03:30 – Cum folosește tehnologia o persoană nevăzătoare
0:04:42 – Braille vs tehnologia modernă
0:06:33 – Pauză relaxantă

💰 FONDURI UE – GHIDUL COMPLET
0:07:37 – Ce sunt fondurile UE (pentru începători)
0:10:23 – Condiționalitatea: Când oprește UE fondurile
0:12:23 – STUDIU DE CAZ: Fonduri pentru spital
0:17:15 – ATENȚIE! Cum eviți fraudele
0:19:18 – Procesul de evaluare – secretele selecției
0:21:39 – Cofinanțarea: Cât plătești din buzunar
0:24:39 – De ce România e pe ultimul loc la absorbție

🎯 PNRR – ADEVĂRUL DESPRE MILIARDE
0:27:34 – Ce este PNRR și de ce contează
0:33:04 – PROBLEMELE REALE: Întârzieri și coordonare
0:40:34 – SOLUȚII CONCRETE pentru deblocare
0:49:13 – Alternativa: Finanțare prin obligațiuni
0:53:48 – SCANDAL: Corupția și multinaționalele

💡 SOLUȚII PRACTICE
0:58:51 – Concluzii și perspective
1:00:56 – 3 măsuri CONCRETE de management
1:03:17 – Sfaturi pentru PRIMĂRII și AFACERI
1:07:12 – Povești din comunism și sistemul de troc

🍷 BONUS RELAXANT
1:20:58 – Degustare de vin și discuții libere

🤖 AI ȘI VIITORUL
1:23:46 – AI ca investiție strategică
1:26:42 – Impactul AI asupra job-urilor românești

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I’m Cristian Sima and you’re on
the Fed Your Green channel. Today we’re broadcasting
from Goleștilor Hill, from Moșia Goleștilor. The Golescu family was one
of the most important families in the 1848 revolution,
some of the most important revolutionaries. And Dinicu Golescu had three children,
Nicolae, Alexandru and Ștefan. All three reached around 1868, 1869 until
1870. They even became prime ministers in short-lived
governments. And today we have as guest Ovidiu Tuduruță. Ovidiu Tuduruță is
an old friend of mine. He’s an extremely cultured person. Just so you know, he’s
the only one who beat me at all kinds of general knowledge quizzes, history,
geography, which hasn’t happened to me until now. And although he’s much
younger than me, being half my age and also visually impaired, he’s
an example, I believe, for everyone in Romania. Why did I invite Ovidiu?
Not at all because he has this disability and is a well-read guy, but because he’s very
skilled in European funds and today over a glass of parent wine made here on
Goleștilor Hill, an exceptional wine that I recommend to you. This is a
cabernet sauvignon. Here we have an extraordinary white and so
on. The idea is the following: Ovidiu deals with and is an expert consultant in
obtaining European funds, from implementing programs with European money
and in what if I want, to give you an example, when you go to Ciugud and
you like how that commune looks and how beautifully it’s made, 100% is Ovidiu’s
merit and obviously of the mayor who together with Ovidiu obtained the
European funds and with them managed to do something. Welcome, Ovidiu.
Good to find you, master. Well, good to find the hosts too. Thank you for
the reception. Adrian received us extraordinarily here and
we must thank him. It’s a superb place. You know we’re also in
a beautiful moment of the day, so there’s a pleasant noise in the background here at Moșia
Goleștilor Hill. There’s such a perfume of history and if it’s sprinkled with wine it’s
even better. Good to find you. Cheers!
Good to meet again. Master is an old friend of mine and I should tell you
that there’s a real chance we might even argue during this discussion.
We’ve argued several times before, we contradict each other and so on.
Let’s talk about European funds. Yes. Let’s correct something and let’s
tell the public. At Ciugud it’s not 100% my merit, it’s more their merit.
We’re also part of the success there. We also grew together
with the community from Ciugud and with the team from the city hall, they have many more
projects and achievements than what they have with us, but also what we have together. They are
remarkable projects, obtained with difficulty. I’d like to highlight something else
because otherwise you, the public, will sit trying to identify exactly how
it works. I’m visually impaired, as Master Sima also said.
You should know that I use technology of any type, exactly like you, on any
device, desktop or mobile. I have software that reads the screen, that’s what it’s called,
screen reader. Let’s tell them. It reads at a speed
three-four times faster. Ovidiu, I had to learn to read diagonally
to reach 100 pages per hour. Ovidiu reads without problems 100 pages per
hour because he listens to them at a much faster speed than us. Our ear, of
ordinary people, impossible to distinguish what’s being said there. He puts
everything at a very high speed and that’s why he also writes on Facebook. He behaves
perfectly normal. So I have unlimited access to
information thanks to screen readers on any
type of technology, from simple applications to effectively
complex professional operations with complex software. So, to give you an
image, but it gives you an even greater surplus.
For me it was access to the life I wanted or want. Tell me how much he read
The Count of Monte Cristo in Braille and how many volumes there were. There’s a story here. Look, with young people
I often try to – if you see me with a napkin in hand in the back as you
observe, there’s a beautiful fire that sounds superb, only it also warms us and
then it seems like we’re in July. It seems warmer than it is. It’s a
beautiful story that I often have with young people, explaining to them that what
seems within reach to them was much more complicated for us. I caught
the time when information technology still didn’t help us enough to go through
literature on the computer. In Braille, reading in Braille
was tiring because of the alphabet, because of Braille printing
books become voluminous. I remember Les Misérables. You should tell them what
the Braille alphabet is. You know it’s not the whole alphabet on dots, respectively
a tactile alphabet, a dot alphabet through which the visually impaired can have access to
letters and words. The only book read in Braille was
Les Misérables. It had 21 books. Imagine if you wanted to have them next to bed, you’d have
no room for anything. And then I was in elementary school, I had received a tape recorder
as a gift and so I listened from the Association of the Blind, I took books recorded
from the communist era, recorded by great actors who voluntarily
recorded books for the blind that they read and so I listened and
if I wanted to fast-forward I had to remember how much tape should remain to reach
the point where Edmund Dantès escaped from prison. Well, let’s continue.
Now you have technology, you behave, it’s impressive that we’ve
clarified this. This is very important. I’m also black because I’m tanned.
He’s a special blind person. Really special, like a kind of
and I’m also black from tanning. Do you want to tell a good joke?
Don’t tell it. A blind man goes to a traffic light in New
York and stands there and says: “Give me $5 because I’m blind. Nobody, nothing.
Time passes. Give me, please, $5 because I’m blind. Nobody, nothing. At one
point he says: “Give me, please, $5 because I’m blind and I have the impression I’m
also black.” But do you know the one with Stevie Wonder?
No Stevie Wonder had a song “I just
called to say I love you.” Right.
And if you don’t see, you don’t know what it’s like. And the man, those black glasses, was singing, holding
a phone. There were some clips in the ’80s, the first video clips and he sang
like this: “I just called to say I love you” and a joke had appeared. So he always laughed
whenever he said this he laughed and says: “Why does Stevie Wonder laugh?” And the answer was
simple. He doesn’t know he’s black. Excellent.
I hope YouTube doesn’t cut us. I know I’m black from tanning. OK.
Good. Let’s get back to European funds. Look, let’s take it so people understand what’s
with these European funds, just like I don’t understand very well either, but
from what I know and those who are watching us now know, you can access
European money and with that European money you can make a business, you can develop if you’re
a mayor or state, you can develop the town, the city and so on. You can make
highways. We know with European money you can do almost anything. First,
explain to me why these European funds were invented. Why do some
contribute to this fund with more than they get back. We are those who
contribute, normally, we’re less developed with less and we take from there
much more. And how are the European funds, how are they made available to
countries. So, you should know we’re not making a
promotional clip about European money, that’s not what this is about. We’re making a clip about
No, we’ll also criticize them, but let’s go with
Exactly. About accessibility, if you will, about general literacy, because we live in
times when, look, public debate is very much around these
funds. The idea of European money, to simplify it, the biggest risk we
have in this discussion is to take it to a technical, tedious,
bureaucratic area, which turns it into an unpleasant dialogue. The idea of European money
comes because in turn the European Commission wants you to be a taxpayer. The European
Commission, which is the European executive, the European Union, if you will, at some point
wants you to be a taxpayer, but wants you to be a taxpayer from the position
where you’ve recovered gaps by sectors. If you’re a state with
fewer highways than another, that means those from Brussels will
give you more money to recover this gap. If you have higher school dropout,
you’ll receive more money. If there’s a risk of poverty, if there are
people living in a state of vulnerability, anyway, what’s certain is that
the purpose of European money is to recover gaps. It comes, obviously,
from the contribution of member states. Some contribute less because on
most indicators that Europe measures as an average, those states are
above average, they contribute more. Those that are below that average contribute
less and receive more. Good, contributions also depend on
GDP. Since GDP is very large and you’re rich, you give more
and GDP and GDP and population and there are more elements that contribute to
the actual calculation of the contribution, but at the base, to be very clear, the European
Commission has a socialist behavior with money, in the sense that it offers
it where gaps need to be recovered compared to the European average. Now a
question. If we want all the European money this year to make hospitals or
highways and we take all the money from Europe, all the NRRP, all, all the money and
make highways, do they let us and finish with highways?
They don’t let us. They don’t let us because the European Commission never
proposed that we should cover a single indicator. Because if you have
highways in principle you’ll have greater mobility and having
greater mobility the economy grows or economic mobility grows, the economy grows,
but this doesn’t effectively have a direct calculation in recovering gaps
compared to any type of indicator. Do they condition where the
highways should be or where the hospitals should be? Here’s a very
important topic. The European Commission conditions. In fact, it conditions much
less than we think. The European Commission sets
general rules, in principle, and from here on you have freedom.
The problem comes from the fact that we always excused
low competence by passing the buck to Brussels. It’s more of an internal
problem generally speaking. But we always blame our frustrations
on others’ fault. Indeed transport networks, they
in turn are calculated according to logistical flows.
There can’t be a relevant highway that connects Negru Vodă in Constanța county
to Techirghiol, because in no way is it a strategic route. So, calculating
logistical flows, goods flows, directions that transport
uses for goods transfer from one part to another, they in turn
transform or reach in the end international networks. They’re not Romanian
networks. In turn, each highway we desire and hope,
God, to have once, is part in turn of a pan-European corridor.
Good. But listen. Let’s take it clearly so people understand. Look, I’m mayor of
Oltenița. In my city, in Oltenița I’m not going.
I don’t even get there, but that’s no problem. I’m not even running. If we do collaborations,
we’re in conflict of interest, we’re friends. I’m not mayor. I’m mayor,
suppose. I’m mayor of Oltenița. I want to make a hospital. In Oltenița
there’s a hospital to renovate, to do what you want, it looks terrifying. And I want to make
this hospital and I don’t have money to make a hospital with the city’s money in any case
because the budget doesn’t allow me and I want European funds and I come to expert
consultant Ovidiu Tudruță and say: “Ovidiu, I’ll do everything you want, sign anything, fix
anything, just get money for the hospital.” How can it be done? First we need
to settle this story about signing anything before everything, after which
we start be patient because you’ll have tough questions.
I understand, I understand the idea. We don’t get lost in how it’s done. How it’s done. Well I come to you and from now on we’ll
give you steps. We, me together with my team, we’ve processed many files through
which we’ve attracted European money. If there’s modern equipment in hospitals
purchased in recent years, surely it’s partly also our merit
because we co-participated in this effort, modernizing hospitals with equipment,
although there’s no one to work enough. That’s another discussion and we can have it
later. Um as long as the hospital is used,
as long as the hospital has interest, as long as there’s data from outpatient care,
that hospital is subject to European financing and there have been
very much money in the recent period, money that the health system
used to modernize itself. What we haven’t understood yet is that a health
system doesn’t mean just equipment, just walls and then the investment must
happen complementarily. Tell me what do I do concretely? I came as mayor to you, from now on the steps concretely. First, for you to be able to
propose it as an investment, you need to convince the local council to
approve it for you. You need to have a partnership through which
the hospital manager gives consent for you to modernize. Have you convinced him too?
After which we start and collect from doctors
we check which medical sections are used the most so we can
justify the need. Well, I don’t have medical sections, I don’t have a doctor, I don’t have him, but
damn, all the doctors fled, no one comes anymore. It’s
Not really, not really. No, no, no. From the principle or in principle money
for modernization comes where still the operation exists, where it doesn’t exist
at all. Not really. Did the Romanian state or European Commission through the Romanian state allow
construction of new hospitals or modernization
of hospitals that became those two. Yes. they raised money from people and
built a hospital for children with cancer and we can’t succeed with European money.
But see, this is also a form of financing that we don’t understand that
European money shouldn’t be thought that it must replace any other
financing source. Moreover, a gesture I understand. A wonderful gesture that
“Dăruiește Viața” made and a result that I don’t think anyone achieved and unfortunately I don’t know if
anyone will achieve it again soon.
The idea is that European money in turn ends up being spent in places
where it also makes a bit of sense. Because if you in Oltenița have 3000
inhabitants I don’t have 300. You have 300? Well if you have 300 it means
the hospital is functional. If it’s functional it’s easy.
It’s functional, but it’s terrible. Well, important is that it’s functional. So
there are patient entries. Of course there are entries. Well, if
there are patient entries, it means you have a justification. The need exists. I have
patients, they seek statistically specialties A, B, C, D. At the end
of a month we can measure cardio diabetology, pneumology. We have a number
of entries reported to the national average that justifies the need for modernizations.
Wait, let’s not make a list, I come to you, what do you do? You make a project and go
to where, wait, let’s determine what project means. At that moment you make a list of
equipment you propose. I come and say you can buy this equipment
because you have patients who have the chance to have the potential to use it. This one you can’t
buy because you haven’t had any patient for such a
specialty in the last year. This way we determine what equipment we buy. What
is your role as a municipality or to find offers in the market, offers that are not
binding. They are offers through which you substantiate the price, you talk with
operators, you do market research, we also contribute
to the proposals and can I as mayor or manager inflate
those offers? Let’s say it straight. If I inflate the offers,
no and European money comes and I’m caught
later. No. If you do such a thing it only means
you had irresponsible behavior. Not that it exists, unfortunately.
Well, exactly that it exists. I don’t want to say we,
but what I want to say is that you’re both irresponsible and criminal and
unconscious. Because European money, European money is traceable
from all points of view. Any expense goes through digital systems
that record the expense. Any document goes through digital systems
that record the document. And if the report of market research results
that or from the report results that you inflated some prices to be able to
justify what you said earlier, you only become
the subject of criminal investigation.
I’m Andrea Năstase, craftsman who there 5-10%. Should I tell that guy that
the offer adds 10% because it’s not visible, there are more offers in the market and then I buy
from you. It’s very hard because on legislation
regarding public procurement. So the state through its authorities spends money
according to a type of rigor on legislation for public procurement.
Corroborated this information with the fact that medical equipment is expensive, it
goes into competitive offer procedure, meaning it goes into offer competition. It’s
very hard to play effectively because you
it’s very hard. It’s not impossible. You convince more, but it doesn’t matter. Good. You’ve made the project. Yes.
Where do you ask in my name or do I ask? Where? European money where?
Each activity sector has an authority that manages, that has
competence. For hospitals where do I go to the Ministry of
Health. Yes. Usually the Ministry of Health or
certain agencies that have decentralized role regarding European
funds. Good. I go to the Ministry of
Health to keep it. So to
you don’t go, you don’t go, you submit the file electronically in a computer application.
File. Who approves the file? Well, from here on that file enters
into the hands of an evaluation team that can be internal.
Right. Is that evaluation team politically appointed by the minister?
No, no. But how is it? It’s not. And here if we talk
about internal evaluators, which happens in certain situations um
can you be an evaluation team? No,
no, because it would be conflict of interest. Exactly I was expecting to
attack you, but there are external teams that in turn,
because also from European money there’s a program that the market doesn’t know,
assistance programs or financing lines for technical
assistance. This technical assistance, among others, also means contracting
external evaluators, respectively people who have a specific curriculum in
project evaluation, meet firm criteria, are selected following
a competition and end up to You know it’s quite complicated. I know this theory.
In Romania it’s talked about on all that everyone is auditors from those from Big
Four and they take some bribes and it’s not quite like that. Good people, I really
want you to understand me. I do this, I do this well. I’ve been doing it for many years with
great results. I’ve grown communities. I can tell you that the evaluation system is
designed in such a way that it’s quite hard to have
interference. I don’t master all of them, obviously. But I also don’t want to
transform the discussion into a conspiracy or a rhetorical one. Maybe, maybe, maybe,
but no, we’re not, I wasn’t in the prosecutor’s role, to know.
No, no, I’m not. So here I’m the devil’s advocate in this discussion and
I have to be because otherwise we’ll only have comments like this. Leave it, I know
and like those who write comments, leave it, I know it’s not like that, let them have
arguments too. So it’s resolved with evaluation, something was done.
Man, here I have a simple example. If the evaluation was
who approves so European money comes? Following the evaluation report, it in turn
reaches the authority’s leadership and based on the evaluation report
a final ranking is made because projects are usually ranked
now. until I came out first. It came out first. They published
the list that the project was admitted. Next you prepare documents for
signing the financing contract. Good. And with co-financing how much do I need to bring
as mayor or? Depends. Depends. Generally they are
small percentages. 2%. So I almost do it with total money
from Europe. Or even nothing or even nothing. Yes.
Good. And how does European money work? It says: “Hello, Sima did it with Ovidiu, I give you
money!” Yes, no, here each financing is part
of a financing program. Each financing program is part of a
European policy. In principle, you have financing where the Romanian state receives
money in advance and if the Romanian state takes them and gives
to whoever it wants or makes highways and later on
It can’t. It can’t. It can’t because it doesn’t have access to those accounts. it doesn’t have
access to accounts, but in turn both the Romanian state and vertically
the Romanian state with the European Commission, the Romanian state with local authority,
local authority with supplier, all are caught, wait, wait, all are
caught by a contract. In that contract, one of the relevant clauses
that can lead to termination are exactly this, using money for other
purposes. As long as that money enters into electronic accounts, has a
digital course, if it’s demonstrated that it was temporarily used as a bridge for
other needs of the local authority, the local authority loses financing.
So you don’t really have a way. Once, indeed, the story was a bit different about
15 years ago. Now it’s not Another question. If I started to
implement the program, I did something and I lose financing, do I give money back or don’t
continue? Yes, yes, you give money back.
I, the municipality must give money back. Yes, yes, yes. And it happens often,
unfortunately, for reasons that concern competence, reasons that concern
deadlines Is someone found guilty, convicted by
justice or not? They just give money away. In the end, in the end it’s
reached. Now you have another problem with Romanian legislation specific to
recovery of illicitly accumulated goods, but anyway,
illegally, but responsibility is engaged. How it
transforms into recovered money. Here’s another story. I want to say something.
You’ll have patience during the discussion. No, my purpose isn’t to defend
either the state or the European Commission. I just
want us to have a correct discussion. There will be enough moments when
including me and maybe I can do it a bit more
argumentatively, with more experience, you’ll see that I’ll also complain about
elements that concern the path of European money that comes
to Romania and elements that themselves are strange, but I don’t always share
the generalist opinion. Why don’t all mayors ask for European money
out of laziness, fear? They don’t ask, they ask now. They ask, they don’t ask. You should
know something that money is absorbed. The problem is that we always
saw the statistics, we’re at the top of the ranking, meaning in 5th, 6th,
7th place in various rankings. Yes, but that ranking doesn’t also talk
about what we put that money into. You know, somehow you should know this, the European
Commission has multiannual budgets for years and you have programming periods, like
2021-2027. We’re in the second half of a multiannual financial framework
period. In practice,
the European Commission always gives national states extra time to
spend that European money. So it’s not just seven years, it’s 10 years,
always two or three more, time in which money can be spent. Usually,
national states, if they have an absorption deficit at the end of the
seven-year cycle, in the last three they negotiate with the European Commission and carry forward
money, where they saw during the seven years that there was high demand.
That’s how it was at the end of 2020, respectively 2023, because it was extended somehow
the Romanian state had very many projects it had projects where
a difference accumulated between the initially estimated price and the final price because
time passed, because construction materials became more expensive. You remember the moment
2021-2022 and then to help the Romanian state not put money from the budget
more than it could have put, it allowed flexibilization of unspent
sums toward those projects that had a greater need for money. But
that doesn’t mean it’s necessarily correct. That’s a mistake of the Romanian state that
has poor planning. European money doesn’t necessarily have
complementarity with money from national programs. Anghel Saligny.
You know, you’ve all heard of them. But we lose European money, because now
word goes around that look, two highways we won’t make because we lost NRRP money.
The discussion is long with NRRP I’ll return immediately, but as a principle
we don’t lose sums, but we lose money because we proposed to modernize
19 hospitals with that money and who takes the money and we end up
Well they’re in the budget Well yes, here’s what I’m saying. We proposed to
modernize 19 hospitals. Out of 19 we managed to modernize five. We go with our complaint
to Brussels and say please, that difference of 14 hospitals that we
weren’t capable of spending. Let us move it to highways, because we actually
realized that we did the technical documentation poorly and they cost more
than we estimated. And the European Commission says: “Fine, man, I’ll let you because I actually
don’t have mechanisms to take the money back and distribute it. I don’t have technical
mechanisms and so I’ll let you, man, take it where you want. Practically, we steal our own hat.
So in practice we don’t lose money, but we don’t take it where we proposed and where it would be
correct to take it. And with NRRP here’s a discussion and it’s healthy to have it because
we’re exactly in the moment when because I don’t know well what this NRRP is. I’m like
God, this is an accordion and goodbye. Here the Romanian state showed the measure
of incompetence. Here we demonstrated that But what’s this national plan for
reconstruction, right? and resilience. But how it’s a European Commission gimmick, a
financing mix, non-reimbursable sums and loan sums, but at an
extraordinarily small interest rate, much smaller, three-four times smaller than
what the Romanian state borrows at. And this mix is given for post-pandemic
recovery, because that’s how it appeared, that’s why it’s recovery and resilience,
recovery, post-pandemic recovery, money to use to
accelerate certain sector gaps. The European Commission also did
another test that was also a big success, a Eurobond issuance and based
on these Eurobonds with which it went to market to gather money it financed
those loans that are the NRRP part. Our problem is that we haven’t
those bonds were a big success for the state, for the European Commission,
because for those who bought them now, because interest rates went up, if God forbid
they want to sell them, it’s not such a big success because they took them with low
interest rates. Here’s your world, that’s how it is. For
the buyer it wasn’t necessarily a success, but for the European Commission it was a
success. Somehow what the European Commission does comes with a new rule that you’ll
keep seeing in the next financing cycles to couple, meaning I don’t just give you
highway money, you unlock the right to take highway money if
you do a legislative reform. And you keep hearing about those milestones. Well how
do you hear? But if I, the mayor of Oltenița, did half a hospital with my money,
would you give me the rest faster? No,
no, no.
Because I was thinking of issuing municipal bonds and raising money and then this is a good topic and a topic that
many municipalities don’t use. I mean for
small ones it’s complicated. I don’t see Oltenița issuing bonds, but for
big city halls some do it, most don’t do
municipal bond issuance. What does the European Commission do? it comes with this
conditioning. You don’t get money unless you do a legislative reform. Only if
you do a legislative reform. You must modify and we must for God’s
sake once regulate the problem of special pensions, because they themselves are
an insult as a principle. Well, and the European Commission comes with the agreement, at the proposal
of the Romanian state, with the Commission’s agreement. The Romanian state passes this plan through
Parliament and says: We reform special pensions too, we take highway money too.
What was missing in NRRP and at this moment we’re facing a
Man, if they insult and these can’t do it, why don’t they all do it, sir? We want to give
special pensions to cancel them. Look, Brussels is asking us. It’s So here somehow
there needed to be a head to understand once.
Well, the Constitutional Court said it can’t be done anymore.
I’m convinced it was done so that this agreement from the Constitutional Court
wouldn’t be obtained. I think the reform was thought wrongly. I’m not an expert. I wouldn’t
want to insist on the topic because I really don’t know how to technically understand. The
pension law or the pension system is itself a cumbersome system.
I don’t master it. I know for sure it’s abnormal to have another pension if you have a
contributory pension. That I know for sure and I don’t think it’s legitimate,
but we don’t earn based on how much we contributed.
That’s how it should be. I have no idea. I know that
we earn pensions today based on what you pay. If I retire next year,
if you don’t work and don’t pay contributions to the National
Pension House, I don’t get my pension. And since fewer and fewer of you work
because the rest of the young people left, I won’t get a pension. Although think how much I
contributed to the Pension House in the ’90s, 2000 until 2012 at a salary of
18,000 € undeclared on work certificate. Enormous. But I won’t have a pension even
as much as the judge from the Court of Appeal. Well, look, this was also a
reform and from what I know the Romanian state assumed it. The European Commission validated
the general pension law reform. Yes. Because the pension system is
deficient in France and Germany too. This whole socialist or communist
system that was made doesn’t work. Well
the American one with private pension doesn’t work either. You’ll see how it is. It’s a problem
and you often have in this game too many
bureaucrats and because of this, see it’s possible that the pension reform that
the European Commission created as an admissible milestone, might be
structurally on the same socialist communist premises. I don’t take, I don’t
necessarily know because not even in America the pension system is a disaster. There you work
until you die. Let’s go back. Let’s go back because it’s a
tough topic, a current topic. Today so we know why it’s a tough topic, today money is being cut,
investments are being cut because we weren’t capable of coordinating our actions
so that by August 2026 when NRRP closes everywhere, we manage to bring to
good end both components of this mix, both
legislative reforms and investments. Say concretely what we didn’t do. We have
exceptional puzzle pieces. So I had the opportunity to meet people, civil servants
from ministries, from local authorities, exceptional people. The problem with NRRP is
who sat at the top of the list and had to coordinate
these specialists. We reached the point where and here you know I’m telling you
something that unfortunately I don’t see anywhere. The Romanian state is a
completely unserious partner with payments. So now we’re referring strictly to the
investment part. We have investments. The money came from Europe, yes. Yes, it came.
We have so. Well think, NRRP in total means 30 billion.
Right. 10.3 billion entered our country
until now. The Romanian state engaged
investments of 46 billion. It’s no problem because you can complete them
from national sources if they’re good. And I saw that payments are 1 billion and
payments are 8 billion. So one, we weren’t able to spend even as much as
entered the country. Two, we engaged projects.
Why doesn’t the state want to pay or what’s the problem?
I could never understand this minus. You know the reason
Well maybe the one at the helm says: “Wait, let me wait for my buddy to come.”
No, excuses exist many. Excuses are that we don’t have sufficient resources and when this
multitude of financing appeared. I think temporarily they were with
insufficient resources, but I also think something else. I think in lack of common sense because
think like this, since September there’s a ministry. Today, the purpose isn’t today to give
names and surnames, that’s not what this is, that’s not why we gathered. There’s a
ministry that from September until May didn’t make payments or made much
too few payments compared to the need for reimbursement
from the market. It had money. That’s what I’m trying to say. It keeps it with interest in the bank.
From 10, it doesn’t keep it anywhere. We don’t even have we don’t have
well wait, man, did those come from Europe? Yes.
Well and they sit here in a bank. So you have 10.3 billion.
Right. And where do they sit? Bank. Yes.
If during this period you get 3% interest on them, who gets that interest?
Well no, they don’t sit in a private bank, they sit in the NBR circuit.
Right, in the NBR circuit, but any banking sitting at NBR produces interest.
Agreed, but regardless of the situation, the fact that it produces interest, if
the purpose is to accumulate interest money, I think the Romanian state didn’t have liquidity
to play with that. You have 10.3 billion, you spent only eight, but you
engaged expenses of 46 billion and you want to spend until next year in August, us
being now in June. I contradict it doesn’t have liquidity the Romanian state, because that’s why it
borrows when needed, it doesn’t have, the discussion isn’t this. The discussion is lack of
seriousness regarding payments. Because if you have an operator who was engaged to
finish a work from Umbrărescu that everyone knows to operators who won
tenders following some tenders, following some
competitions, works, they advanced with the work
and discounted invoices from the bank. The bank perceives an interest and when
the state comes and says Master Sima, can I participate, I invite you to
participate because I need your support, because you’re a good
constructor, you engage in this activity, you rely, come on, it won’t be 30
days, as the contract says, it’ll be 60, because everyone knows the state is late
No, I do factoring first thing. Well you do factoring. But you do factoring when Well yes, but when nine months pass and you
haven’t collected your money, take calculate to see what interest rates you reach.
But you might not collect even at two years. I’m saying something,
but isn’t it like I come with an envelope, like if I come with an envelope then
I collect the money. Well up to the ministry those who pay, I don’t know.
With envelope it’s very hard because ministries have very many commissions. To whom
do you give the envelope? You don’t have That is, that money approval of those payments goes through many
hands. I hope with all my heart that we’re not in this movie.
Or actually they’re indolent and don’t sign and extend this approval process.
They don’t sign. They invoke lack of human resources. What’s certain is that today there are
countless open construction sites, projects. You go to Oltenița and if one of those
who signs signs like this, although he didn’t do the work up to there or how much is
paid, it can’t be answered. So if
he answers before But money, money, public money can’t be
spent in advance. Public money is paid only following some delivered
results. So you can’t No, but he made the highway, made the bridge,
made the hospital and wants the money. And why do you keep him longer? This is what no one
talks about. Here’s the unserious part, profoundly unserious of the
Romanian state, payment delays in anything. On the other hand, if the
operator who owes money to the state is late, you know well, 30 days don’t pass,
accounts blocked, you go to ANAF, you show ANAF, look, I have money to collect
from the state, the state owes me five times more than I owe you.
There’s no compensation scheme. And what’s worse, I tried to have
discussions trying to convince people with
responsibility in NRRP of the fact that, man, we have two Romanian banks. How you
instituted guarantee schemes for SMEs on a guarantee scheme for OK,
you don’t have the capacity to process payments, to process bureaucratic documents that
justify payment. Make an agreement with a bank, guarantee the credit through Exim Bank,
through CEC Bank. And Mr. Sima, who has a construction work in
Oltenița, has 20 blocks for rehabilitation, he can get his money from
CEC Bank, following you having enough time to process your documents
until you succeed in your sleepy rhythm to process them. But this
is a topic no one talks about. One of the main causes why
we lose money from NRRP and this NRRP turns into a national failure is
unseriousness in payment processing. Not one month, not three. Nine months. I saw
last year a minister. Minister. Last year he wasn’t minister,
now he’s minister. He came out publicly. I kept his statement. When I get too much
enthusiasm toward the Romanian state. I reopen that statement to
because there I know personally with figures. He came out and communicated that everything meaning
payment request until September was processed 95%.
It actually being under 10%. Well, you see, besides
unseriousness of this partner you sit at the table with in a contract, you also have
the second problem, communication, a marketing that has no place, a
manipulation. If this one lies to you, you leave him, but here you have to wait
I don’t know how many more years? Well, see why sovereignists will jump here and say that
if we come, that’s it, everything gets paid. Here um No,
at least they haven’t convinced me that they would be carriers of values to
transform practically into better solutions. No, moreover, when I see a
synchronization between Moscow narratives and
authentic Romanian discourse that resembles the one from Moscow, it seems to me
the risk is too big for me to assume anything.
Solutions, we need to give solutions. Suppose you’re both president and
prime minister and head of European funds. What should be done?
Solution. One of them is what the current premier is trying. To cut from
investments, because indeed we’re at the point where some surely won’t be
finished anymore. Two, to prioritize
and we give him the presumption of good faith to be also more serious with payments. A
technical solution I’ve always recommended. He brought many European funds to
Oradea. That is, you can’t say he doesn’t have Yes, yes, that’s right.
That’s right, that’s right. He understood the stakes, that is, his track record shows that he understood the stakes
of European money absorption. I hope the payment part, to finish it
somehow with a solution, to be exactly this. You have Romanian banks,
find guarantee forms for credit schemes and Romanian banks can
release money to the market faster than you do.
Listen carefully to your idea. If I go to the bank and put 100 RON in Romanian
state securities, yes,
maturity in 10 years. Do you know how much the bank lends me from that money?
Maturity in 10 years. At 7% per year. It doesn’t matter, leave 7%. I put 100
RON. The nominal value of state securities 100 RON.
Right it gives me 85%. But that’s not the maximum. If I
want, listen, if I want a loan in RON and put
100 RON, it gives me 90 RON. Well, I say, but I put 100 for you,
you have no risk. It doesn’t matter. That’s the procedure.
Well, here bureaucrats will come that I know
I know their mentality, thinking and they’ll say: “Yes, but you can’t release
money until it’s validated. That’s what I want to say that in Romania at some point we had a ministry Well it doesn’t give me a guarantee letter
with cash collateral for 100, it gives me a letter for 100. I need to come with
110 or 105 to get a letter. And here you know better, we’re making a Well yes because it wants the interest too.
Not even the interest. It says: “Well I would lend to you. I lend to anyone, to anyone on the street
if I have 100 guarantee I lend you 100. What do you say? Not to take
interest? No, the bank doesn’t want this risk to have either.
It wants the interest too. Well what should depreciate? Leu with leu. Yes. Yes.
What’s my problem? I tell you 100 and you lend me 100. I’m stupid that
how much I take on that interest, I give you more. Another minus we have. Another minus.
Here’s NBR and the whole banking system that’s wrong. But let’s go back because
I want to finish anticipating certain bureaucrats who will look here
and I’ll tell them this. In February we had a ministry that processed, had
processed reimbursement requests If you gave names they’d look like that. I don’t think
they look. But it’s irrelevant. It’s irrelevant because there are teams. We don’t talk about
people. Let’s hope at least two bureaucrats are on
Fed Your Green. Welcome bureaucrats to Fed Your Green.
We had in February reimbursement requests. They’re called transfer
requests, but what reimbursement requests, verified, validated and unpaid. Not for
one month, not for two, not for three, not from 21 days, as the financing contract
rule says, months had passed and they were unpaid. Who suffered?
The field operator suffered. What was the effect? Construction sites
were stopped. The new government came and sees the blocks from Oltenița of 20. We have
progress stage of 30% in 4 years, 3 years. Why? The constructor works hard.
No, the state didn’t pay. And so the state not paying invoices,
not honoring its part of the contract, the operator stopped
execution. and we wake up in July 2025 that we lose not 1 billion, not
two times, we lose from NRRP at least 6.5 billion. I think we’ll lose more. Started investments are cut. Construction sites
remain Construction sites remain dead.
But when does the mayor get money? Yes, because the mayor gets money,
not the state, the ministry pays through the municipality’s account with the obligation through
financing contract for the municipality in five days to make the final payment
to the obligated, respectively mayor, but he has no other way because also
there were cases to lose the financing contract.
Do they pay you consultant or when you want? No, they pay me according to the project
evolution schedule. I depend in turn on how
normal, but how it moves, he knows something or not?
He gives me too. He gives me too when both the construction part
and the documentation part are validated So from a slot of invoices, they cumulatively mean a sum,
from that sum each has their part. I know I know more, we should have said,
but you did the consultancy, it was obtained, the contract was signed. Shouldn’t they
give you everything if he doesn’t finish. No,
you depend on his completion too. We as a team only got paid at
success. So we got paid not at success, because that’s what
that’s how you wanted. That’s how we wanted
or because that’s how everyone does. That’s how we wanted and others started
doing it too and it’s good like that. We earned the right to take
consultancy money. I understand, man. At success, at success
when it’s success. No, no, finance is a marketing technology because I don’t
take my money when the financing was approved. I take my money as
construction evolves. That is, I don’t win a project, I win
the right to make some money from a consultancy contract through which
you manage the investment. So you won thermal rehabilitation, the mayor
from Oltenița thermal rehabilitation. I made the project for you, I won it. When
I won it you don’t pay me any money. When we start to
build, I have 1% percent of evolution from work, 1% from the contract
value, but you might be left without money and all those to be paid and those
who rehabilitated and the constructor and everything and only you not to imagine
if I make mistakes. Yes, if my invoices in turn, if my delivered
services are not considered delivered you can’t inflate
what to inflate the invoice. You have no way.
I have no way, but it’s not about inflating, because you assume some firm
figures from the beginning. You have nothing variable. You when you submit a
project, you estimate about how much your work is. Well your work is to monitor construction
of those 30, 20 blocks and instead of one year it takes 10, you sometimes check the screws
if they respect the quantity lists with Yes, but if instead of one year it takes 10
your workforce involved loses time.
It’s true if the state delays me two years with payment. Well that’s why there are few
teams that resisted in this market. Very few.
And for you to resist you somehow borrow from banks?
No, for me to resist I had to I was obliged to have volume
I swear the state gives me money. No, to have volume. But banks credit
very hard a consulting firm. It’s a small market, banks don’t understand it. It seems a
big market, but in reality it’s a small market. Banks don’t understand the market. There
always is the public contract became in the relationship with the bank a less
credible contract because the state demonstrated it can terminate it even
arbitrarily. I don’t have access and so I ended up being obliged to have volume, to have more
projects on a financing line to be able to How much do they delay? How much can they
delay? One year, two at most at most we have today one
year and a half payment delays. But is there anyone who never pays
anymore? Yes. Yes.
And why? There are countless subjects. You can end up
arguing that, well, he didn’t agree with the minutes.
Good, but he signs in agreement. No, here you need to understand that look, see why
we don’t even give too many names. The fight or partnership with the state is one
quite unequal. The state really has the capacity, force, levers, doesn’t have
levers to allow itself to be incorrect. It’s not
healthy that it’s like this, but it has the levers and it has the practices, unfortunately. That is
if the state wants to turn into an abuse
the relationship with you, it can do it and it does. There are countless Romanian
firms closed because, well, they entered a
conflict with an authority leader, it no longer mattered who was right how.
Sometimes on merit, obviously. This shouldn’t be understood, I don’t want it understood that
the private sector is impeccable. No, mistakes are on both sides. What’s certain is we have an
effect today. We lose money. So we were stupid all of us. It doesn’t matter who was.
I’ll ask you a question name and surname.
Please, you won’t like it, but that’s it. You have to
answer, because that’s why we’re here. So
you know about how many end up not paying, because the state is unserious. If
the state is unserious, we talk to citizens. How do we do
you as your firm for each project, to have money quickly, sometimes before,
how did you win the project, issue some bonds on each project separately
and there’s an interest. Did you survive at an 8-9% interest rate?
Yes, man if But you’d have money immediately before you
Today there’s nothing. So today if you receive money and after 10 months don’t
it doesn’t mean you receive money because bonds regardless in the end you still have to pay them. Yes, agreed. But today if you wait 10
months for money, it’s not like you have extra money because you
waited 10 months. So for um for see, we turn this discussion
into the sense that the private sector is a victim. I don’t want to underline this. I
only underlined an element that caused this problem of European money
losses. No, I thought of making some tokens
that I put, you issue them when you collected on the hospital project
from Oltenița, bam, you pay him first and then you have no other way.
It’s a good idea. At a certain interest rate, no problem
whatsoever. You have no way to spend them on something else.
Only for this you spend them. It’s a good idea. And where do you list? What
secondary market does? The c market Rest assured I’ll take care of that.
So you make a secondary market based on crypto.
Not on crypto. Crypto are some securities, bonds.
Yes. The token itself is a bond from 100 RON loan. OK. Yes.
I give you 100 RON loan for that project. If someone doesn’t like a project,
they don’t give you. And the token means certification,
practically. Yes.
OK. There’s nothing wrong. It’s a solution. It’s real, good people, the story. If
the Romanian state wants to solve a good part of delays, it’s to be more
serious with payments. But I realized another topic. I’m not allowed when I issued the figures, but if I were in power I’d do
differently. I convinced you that they’re good ideas.
So you give 8%. Well the Romanian state would give others with six and look, this way it would make 6-7.
I as the Romanian state would give you money immediately
and would also earn 2% on that money. Here’s also another topic.
In the services sector maybe you can afford to play, but I don’t know if also
in the construction sector 8% is a percentage you can allow yourself to
cede. Agreed, God services, we go to
hospitals, to something we go. We have large volume, let’s not talk about billions. That’s right.
If we think how much invoice factoring means, at a
delay, at a factoring I say.
Raiffeisen asks 17% for Factoring. I don’t think. Come on, man,
give factoring. Depends what you have factoring with. S, wait a second. It might be
with the state on a European project you go,
but the maximum is 17%.
It’s enormous. Well, well you don’t know the stories. But in IT if
you read the chapter in my book 17% was added to all those IT
projects from the Năstase government period. God was Raiffeisen at this factoring.
And they gave, they did factoring including to have bribe money. Well I don’t think any
firm resists to Well they resisted because those gave the bribe
with bank money at 17% and all that after that they put on contract. It means
It means everything was inflated in a manner something outrageous. Well look at this
a bit. But how do you think nails were sold for 3 € to SNCFR and others
see but we also see now water bottles that in government they buy for 9 RON.
Them being all PET, all in store regime, the government pays 9 RON for them,
them being 3 RON. So we see even today this practice.
You know what I’d do for this with procurement?
Say. I make a procurement and it sits two days.
If someone gets a better price for that thing, goodbye.
Depends what we’re talking about. Maybe for goods if both me and you sell
MRI machine, German brand Siemens. the same machine with the same
characteristics, but I because I sell more volumes for Siemens have better price,
there it’s legitimate, but often the lowest price might be
unfavorable to the main interest, respectively the work. If they want work,
I understood one thing in 35 years of our country’s transition.
What? So big multinationals don’t sell
directly to the Romanian state, only through resellers. Correct.
It’s true. Do you know why they don’t do it and why in other countries
they sell directly and sign with Trump? They sign directly.
Nvidia goes with Saudi Arabia to sign directly
because this way you can give bribes. The bribe I don’t take.
Microsoft didn’t take any extra money for those licenses.
The firm that sold with the fisherman and the others who sold took it.
It’s more nuanced the story because many of the distribution firms of
multinationals’ parts are majority owned also by them.
You’re wrong? There are people from them who went there, but they’re not owned, they don’t want
anything. No, no, no, it’s not quite like that anymore. It’s not
quite like that anymore. Distribution became a separate business line and I say 100%
are distributors of different types of equipment.
Firm owned by the multinational company. It’s not quite the wild west
anymore, that is, say no. Romania still has many things to
regulate and still what the public feels, the disappointment is legitimate. But on
the other hand we’re blind if we don’t see that still this country has
improved some things. We reached a moment like this painful one where we woke up that
someone made fun of the country’s money engaging expenses as if the budget
was unlimited. Exactly as the president says, we had money for a medium pizza,
but we ate a large pizza. Man, and why didn’t they do this with NRRP and
had to take there was coordination. There was effectively no
coordination of laziness, of in
of E. I observed in the last in the last two years I always imagined
like this that there exists because we got here, they’re to blame because
they’re stupid or because they’re thieves, because the thief isn’t also stupid
or stupid thieves are the most thieves. It’s most incompetence.
So they’re stupid. The other variant is second, in order, you know.
And how do we do now that salaries are also cut from budget workers and these from
all these agencies so competent people come to work if until now they didn’t come? Very hard. It’s very hard. It’s very hard because
competent people have a place in
Would you go work in an evaluation commission?
No. Aha.
No. Neither would I go work for the state.
No, no, no, no. because there are on the other side of the table more
advantages and not necessarily just the material ones, but there are countless other
advantages that suit me. For example, hierarchical submission under someone
you know isn’t more capable than you. I have no idea. There are more
variants that can count. The problem is it’s very hard to bring. On the other
hand, I don’t know if the salary amount is the biggest problem.
It’s not free time, it’s that you’re boss. I wouldn’t go not because of salary. The problem
is with me you can pay me millions. I’m boss of my piece, I take vacation
when I want, I come to work when I want. But I work from where I want.
I give myself the salary, I know exactly how much I want
because I can go home to Bukovina and work from home remotely. I don’t have
I don’t have a certain imposed presence at the office. Yes, it’s a thing
for all Romanian investors to come tomorrow, I’m talking private now, not state
and ask for consultancy to get European funds or we no longer need it
because there are already too many applications and there aren’t funds and there’s no structure?
No, we’re already in a moment when investments are being cut, some of them
are being cut chaotically. It’s good they’re paying, you don’t want more clients, just get paid by these. At least this should happen and we’re still
well because we in the market didn’t realize how much
mockery there actually was. So to have 10.3 billion
received from which you spent eight, you engaged expenses of 46 billion in conditions
where NRRP means 30 billion, means you played with fire. And often
now, actually now I realize that also payment delay is because you
reached having such great pressure, you had so many assumed
investments that you no longer had capacity, you had to divide the same 100 RON instead of
dividing it to 100 you had to divide it to 1000 and then you rolled because that’s
skilled. The Romanian state always knew how to roll.
It’s better if he divided it to 1000, because maybe one will wink at me and I’ll give
it to him. Didn’t you also think about this? Certainly it happens, unfortunately.
Certainly it happens, unfortunately. If nobody wants to make this
highway, you can’t really ask for much. On the other hand,
caught if there are 10 who fight to make it. On the other hand, my naivety,
I think like this, the fact that many small communities had access to
European money, means the process is no longer so corrupt, but certainly it
still continues effectively for us those involved in
this activity, for us it’s a shock because we intuited the figures, but we didn’t imagine
the dimension of the disaster at this level. We didn’t imagine someone
behaved with the public budget. Indeed, you can’t have development on this
because it’s finished. You can’t have development
in a short time, without also having deficits, but to reach spending
so chaotically, not having measurements, not having control on payment terms, not
having control on progress rhythm and reaching today to cut in block because
the premier has nothing else to do cutting. He must respond to some rigor
for the future are you optimistic. Yes.
Do you think that in five years corruption is smaller now than 10 years ago, but in
five years will it be significantly smaller or remain around here?
No, it will be smaller. It’s a tendency. I think it will be smaller. Unfortunately it won’t
decrease at the rate we want. But But what would you like me to do?
Well, I don’t know. I generally try to be optimistic. Look, to give you an
example, we had projects cut where we’re involved, projects
won by us that cumulatively are 30% of our total activity, which
burns us, crashes us well against all walls, but I have no idea. You can
imagine in the same period someone found out they have cancer. Surely it’s
worse. So somehow both for those who today will be fired from the state and
for those who today lose money from relationship with public authority, ok, it’s not
a drama. I think it’s healthier for Romania to apply such corrections,
because if we have more calculated investments, better dimensioned, maybe
at least the state succeeds in being more serious and not making fun of those involved
by delaying them indefinitely.
So I say that overall slowly slowly slowly we evolve. The problem is we
the people want at a more accelerated pace and it’s legitimate. It’s legitimate to be fed up
with rudeness. It’s legitimate to be disgusted when you see how
public money is chopped from bribes to absolutely aberrant expenses.
You have all the power in the world in this country. Yes.
We’re playing a game. OK. If you have all the power in the world
in this country, I consider you a specialist in European funds.
Yes. Let’s say
first 95%. Are you convinced you know almost
all of them. Eh, no, but I have enough
exercise to and you also have power.
Tell me three things you’d do concretely.
Maybe bureaucracy is looking and something first thing. First thing I fire everything
meaning public. Everything meaning public. I fire. So I have a target of
20% personnel reduction. I fire everyone and rehire from
everywhere. From everywhere. I fire everyone from everywhere and rehire 80%. So I can make a competition through which to
Elon Musk technique. Yes. Through which I select those who
pass this test when they’re skilled. It’s
here’s the problem. We can if we can’t find
expertise in the country, although I’m convinced we can find it, we bring from abroad. Let’s
be serious, we still haven’t reached the point where we fear we can’t make a competition. The idea is to want it. So the conclusion is they exist. Good. Second
measure. Second measure. I have two banks of mine so I can
dynamize everything meaning payment, what I told earlier, I put
in practice. Third measure, I go to the
financier and tell him like this: I need,
yes, I need prioritarily to finish these projects
from your money. I still have a number of projects I won’t finish,
which means the money from projects I know I won’t finish, I want to
move here so I ensure I have sufficient and timely
budget resources. What the current premier is trying to do today.
I hope we succeed and he also has people discussing, negotiating,
specialists who’ve done these before. I don’t know, but the minister of
European funds is competent.
He’s competent. Only I don’t know if he has. It’s not enough one person. You need to have a
team. We give him presumption of good faith. At least 90 days, after which we
criticize him. If I were prime minister and
proposed to you to be minister of European funds, would you come?
No. Aha.
No. No. I’m not mature enough to I’m sorry, but you know I’m tough, so
I brought you to this too. Yes. Aha. Good.
What would you like to tell people, especially private ones who ask for
European funds, but also those from mayors, local councils and so on.
For private I want to tell them that European money is a financing source.
So it’s quite hard to get it if you come for
if you want European money just because they exist. That is, you’re
an engineer in like everyone wants. I’ll make a
guesthouse. Yes, yes. Exactly. You’re an engineer in
forestry, but you heard you can receive money for turkey
farming. and I ask for money for turkey farming
healthy. Yes, yes. If I want 100,000 tomorrow
to buy RON, to buy tools and make to produce all this
podcast alone because I can give it back because I show
with YouTube how he gives money, he gives me. Really po Yes, really you can and you have
experience, you have expertise. Really you can. Really you can do this. Company in
Bucharest. Yes.
Look, you can do it this autumn. But let’s go back to private.
My experience. Man, you need it because I just bought.
Come on, good, say. My experience with private and I have
a long one. I worked with Romanian SMEs large, beautiful Romanian firms, with a
beautiful path. Those who succeeded in attracting money where it was really
necessary were those who had a development plan, they were financing that plan
anyway and tried to partially get European money for it. There was the
biggest success. Those who want to speculate just because European money
exists, I can understand the initiative, entrepreneurial feeling, entrepreneurial sense,
but not necessarily gives results. And for municipalities it will be very hard for you to
recognize if financing is necessary or is less necessary. The suggestion is not to
miss any chance. Decide if the financing contract is useful to you when
you’ve won the finance. If it really isn’t useful, don’t sign it anymore. Anyway, you don’t
pay any money. If I help you win that project, you don’t pay me
any money if you give up on it because you realized along the way
you don’t want the money. But it must be a game where you take for everything you can
take, because it’s not an inexhaustible European source and for a
completely undetermined period. Nothing is forgiven in youth, because at some point you turn 64
like Mr. Sima and you don’t distinguish anymore. But I think it was I think it was sober,
right? The whole discussion was. I don’t think it was sober at all. But what if we
only said jokes? We can say as many jokes as we want.
Maybe people get scared we’re too sober. We’re not We’re not quite like that. We’re not sober. Why should we be sober? I,
for example, say I wouldn’t make a file to get 100,000 for tools and
make my YouTube. I’d rather prefer to take myself.
I hope. I hope because I know you have an intellectual audience, I know you certainly have
people among those who make decisions, among those who make decisions you need to solve
two problems. Now I want to make a library. Library where? Where I read a
book, explain it, give images and so on. Who if young people no longer
read? I say I read with Sima Balzac’s Wild Ass’s Skin or Doctor Zhivago
or Sima’s book or Slobodan Queen or Confessions of a Toxic Banker
or Wall Street or I don’t know what else. Right.
And then I read them the book and from time to time I stop, explain, give
them images and graphics and what’s there. We’ll see what’s like that
which is good for culture because instead of not reading at all, better listen to a
kind of semi-documentary. It’s true,
right? Yes. I read the book anyway from end to end. It’s
a lot of work, I don’t know if it will be profitable. I’ll put there a symbolic
subscription of 50 RON per month, but the work for just three books is very
large, you realize going forward. But I think that
this European money should be fought over and they had to
convince much that they are, exist and Europe gives them to us. For many years we didn’t
profit from them as we should have. We didn’t profit as
Portuguese and others profited, Czechs, Poles. Poles and But we, we asked ourselves
for a long time why we don’t spend them. But tell me something, if I do
tricks, who catches me? Who arrests me? What happens?
Well, you have more instances depending on We should tell them not to do
depending on depending on the type of trick there’s a correspondent in
instances in types of instance to reach.
But Romanian instance to catch our own or does some European organism come? Wait a bit. But
European organisms in turn cooperate with national instances, with
national prosecutor’s offices. Well and tell me something because there too
they’re professionals like they are professionals.
prime I don’t understand I don’t understand even today
if when there’s appetite because it exists, why does it still happen because
you have so many cases. You have people who thought they were God and still ended up
there. They still ended up being caught. Why play with fire anymore?
Because those people who ended up being caught and did two years, three
years, but remained with money. Well, but this changes too.
See you, Madoff? Nobody does what Madoff did anymore, because he has 100
something years in prison and neither he, nor his family have anything to eat.
Well actually he has food because he stays in state penitentiary. If in our country
politicians who did two years, three years, five years now were starving,
I tell you no politician would steal anymore. I hope. Not
the problem is money like with the Swiss. Take their money.
Freedom. I don’t mind. It’s useless you took six years of freedom.
Take the money. But why not both?
Because it’s very complicated. It’s very complicated
when you take both you start becoming a dictator, you decide and so on.
Man, if we haven’t understood that and because you must believe people can
also become good, because otherwise why don’t we have death penalty? Anyone
who steals we kill. Well, because also judicial error. You also have
judicial error and to judicial error. Maybe that one gets better. It’s not quite
like that. We’re still a conscious human race.
True. It’s true. What would you do? Anything just we’re not in
Țepeș’s time and we cut hands off things Țepeș. Only sovereignists have this in
their head. Listen, but since we’re enjoying this wine, let’s be a bit more
optimistic at the end. And let’s Well, this wine, for example, isn’t made
with European funds, although it could be, it’s made by sensitive people,
by people who sensitive, took 3 hectares of vineyard and made an extraordinary wine.
Extraordinary. It’s not even cheap. Don’t think it is My question is as follows:
Do they make it good because they make little?
With wines there’s a thing, as the Frenchman says,
like this, a bohemian
little, but fine. The problem is Romanian drink a lot and then they mix. It doesn’t matter
anymore if it’s Romanian, if it’s Margaux and here we’ve evolved. And here we’ve evolved.
Still in Romania the consumption of wine produced in organized regime has grown
compared to years when and it was all Romanian had the same reply. I like natural
home wine without you counting. We go to a restaurant
because that one is unbalanced. Poshy tomar go high class and in the
respective bottle put a bit of wine. Put a Romanian wine that’s exceptional. You give them
to taste forget there Margaux heard of Châteauneuf-du-Pape. No, Margaux didn’t hear,
but Châteauneuf-du-Pape heard and says this is the best. That’s about it.
Enormous snobbism in Romania. Let’s be let’s
Yes, agreed. But see you, today’s snob is tomorrow’s connoisseur. It’s not quite so wrong.
And this is true. And this is true. Because neither did we when we first went
to the West, I at least in ’90 hadn’t drunk Romanian, nor Margaux and
until we had been and nothing until country wine. He went right here, you were
professor. You also received more protocols. No
I received wines. That is, those wines we drank under Ceaușescu were rubbish.
Well and what did you do with money if you didn’t receive? You received, wasn’t it more convenient to
receive wine instead of money for tutoring? No, because I didn’t want money. No,
wine was missing from us. We were missing things, tipping buckets
at the Wallsit. Well, do you think, man, when I woke up in the morning then I had to
make a list with what I need that day. Butter? I don’t have
butter. What don’t I have? Gasoline I have. Good. This week I have gasoline. When they shot
at my house during the revolution, I had 120 liters of gasoline, six 20-liter canisters. If
they had shot, luckily they were at Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. But
go back a bit to organization logistical management to cover your
shortages. Well, let me explain what you do when you
wake up in the morning. You go, take a shower, I did that too and then
like that. Ah, a good coffee. Well, I didn’t even have
coffee, I drank Nescafé, but to have coffee I had to already have many kilos put
aside, because you don’t know when you run out of coffee or the supplier from
Grozăvești dormitory, the Arab whatever, who could be a student too, no longer has coffee.
Ah, so somehow you can say you had coffee, you didn’t have gasoline. The one who had
gasoline didn’t have coffee and somehow you need and bartering starts.
Well and how did you find him since there were no phones.
Or had database on Sinclair Spectrum. all cassettes in Bucharest. For a
cassette with Amadeus in 1985 you obtained enormous amounts of things. For One Time in
America film with Robert De Niro you obtain again very many things. Even for books. People don’t know, but people would have given anything
to read Doctor Zhivago which was a forbidden book.
Now it’s on all roads. People don’t even know what that Doctor Zhivago is or Pasternak got
Nobel or so on. Now they wouldn’t read it generally speaking.
So my life, half my life. How did you find? How did you find who you needed?
You needed. Let’s take this example. Let’s imagine the hypothesis you were leaving for
Constanța to the sea in summer. You were about to leave. But you don’t leave like that. If you leave look at skiing
when I was leaving I had to talk with one who brought tipping buckets
that I gave to another who gave the tipping buckets that were
very hard to find at Olsit to one who knew one who had a hotel
at so and you couldn’t enter the hotel at Alpin because hotel rooms cost 100
RON but they were all through party through union through tricks not if Well and how
if you didn’t have the phone number what did you do? Did you know the lover where to find him?
How did you call za him? That you have a database. The phone
book was gold. Or he also knew Dăruț much.
OK. OK. And you wanted to z from uncle who had gasoline, but you knew and knew about him from
and you called in turn, took the phone and said: “Tony, what are you doing, man? Well, he says, I’m at the hospital at oncology
doctor and didn’t you have a patient who can get me that?” And he says: “Yes I do,
but wait let me call that one, see what he wants.” And he came to me,
says: “Do you have 1 kg of coffee? That I have. But he says, listen, he told him you’re at
mathematics, don’t you give a test and some tutoring with the physics guy. And then I wanted, didn’t want,
didn’t want, I had to give tutoring to that guy. That’s how relationships were made.
You called one thinking. Well and how much time did you spend on logistics?
You realize like half half day seriously
half day. You didn’t realize you made another call, met with another, but always
and at the same time they called you. So wait a second, there was a rule.
So others called you too to ask for things.
Logical. The phone rang like at the station and says: Can’t you get me that
cassette with Amadeus because I found someone who gives meat.
OK, clear. And you served everyone because you served
without them giving you anything. So somehow you know why you served anyone was
in humanity because you don’t know when you need Well and then let me ask you a question that might concern
this dimension I don’t know but want to have communism
but wait don’t God forbid I know it’s a problem I ask like this,
I saw a statistic. Two out of three Romanians consider Ceaușescu the best. Maybe maybe? Not that and people were
more available because they were more dependent. No,
normal. That’s why people met. Relational was essential, you didn’t go on
Facebook. And if Facebook had existed on Facebook monitored, as it’s also
monitored now and you couldn’t write to whine, wait like this because I’m curious about
details. Say.
So somehow you had an agenda, you called 10 friends looking for a tire because
you needed for the Dacia wheel. But did you think tires were found?
No, at the store there was nothing. Wait, wait, wait. Along the way 10 more called you
having other needs. You noted each one’s needs.
Yes. And then relating by chance with
each, you didn’t know when you could solve someone’s problem. And then you took
the circuit again and called that one and saw that one actually still continuing
needs you solved the problem. Who didn’t need called 10 times? You didn’t
call everyone. So I had no problems calling them back because
they called 10 times. If I refused twice that I found nothing then he understood
I can’t be of Why doesn’t anyone tell exactly these
examples? Why don’t parents tell them? Did you see today’s
statistic that two thirds of young people want
my grandmother a meringue cake made by her at home from Iași by train I went
took the meringue cake and how sweets so good weren’t anywhere because
pastry shops God help them barely if you found a savarin with that meringue cake
I obtained what I wanted. I knew all those who could barely wait. and the mathematics
department from mine, from Polytechnic came to
So when you saw a good you didn’t need, instantly you remembered it’s possible As rare.
Good. So you remembered as another
a good film, a book, anything. OK. Good. You had an advantage because you
gave tutoring. So anyway you received more things. That is, somehow on this
value chain you were somewhere nobody gave tutoring for money anymore,
although for money you earned a fortune. But what to do with money? I from tutoring at 6 in
could take almost Well and I say tutoring I made about 20,000 RON. I had
salary 23 cheese, eggs, milk, meat, everything
anything. Wait because cheese, eggs, milk, meat I had dad veterinarian. They brought them
in large quantities and I gave them including to my colleagues teachers so we wouldn’t be
obliged on piles to pass on vum. Wait. Children came to tutoring, they gave you
a good they suspected you needed and there was a chance you go home and
whip. I’m not talking about my colleagues. Really at But
I also gave to students. Really I gave. I gave. They saw those. You realize if my
girlfriend made moussaka. Well it no longer existed. Or croquettes I put for all
tutoring students. Normal. Normal.
Normal I put. But it’s not that I gave them. But to my colleagues other teachers, well
you know how it was at the mathematics department at Polytechnic?
He says: “Man, give me tutoring with meat because I’m full of cigarettes and coffee.
You understand? He had tutoring and those brought cigarettes and coffee, but he was
non-smoker, didn’t drink coffee. What to do? He gave tutoring to those, but
then those had to be changed somewhere.
Yes, agreed. and it was permanent continuous bartering.
And today we see a statistic or anyway conclusions of a study that highlight
that two thirds of young people want communism. Well if nobody explains to them how.
Well that’s where I start. Everyone has a job. Yes, you had a
job. You couldn’t even not have a job because the workforce took you because you couldn’t Don’t you reach the conclusion that
but you died of hunger. And if that money was a lot, you had nothing to do with it.
You entered grocery and had Vietnamese shrimp to put in oil bath and
Zarea champagne nobody drank because it was ac.
Well don’t you reach the conclusion that democracy is useful for intellectuals
because the others don’t know how to appreciate it.
Ah, but people don’t want democracy. That’s why Peter Thiel wants to do this. I’ll tell you
what to do. Tell Romanians tomorrow that you give them 1500 € per month.
OK, to everyone and they don’t have the right to vote.
Who wants 1500 €? Regardless how much he earns, you give him 1500 € and he doesn’t vote
anymore. I bet 70% if
Yes, yes. So anyone sells you their vote. Well they sell
you. They sold their vote for years for a bucket. Yes, yes.
And if you give them on Peter this says, I give them 1500, but I put the government myself. It’s
private, it’s paid by me and they work, don’t work, they get 1500 € per month.
So we actually reach the conclusion people want more security than
freedom. Normal. Yes.
Freedom we wanted in communism, those. Why? I want it today too. For me this is
essence. Well and you. Because you read Count of Monte
Cristo Braille 27 volumes. How many did you say there were?
Les Misérables. Les Misérables. Miser
Monte Cristo on tape recorder at I mean Les Misérables 27 volumes these
I don’t know who wrote Les Misérables they haven’t seen the Les Misérables film what you do
is culture still important ne it’s not
it’s still but more more important. We could ask the young man. The young man
filming us. Who wrote Les Misérables? Do you know? Yes. He told you what more do you want? Did you
hear of the film with Jean Gabin with something with Les Nisser misérables? No.
Yes, I take the question is culture still important for their future?
Well Les Misérables if you give it today everyone says that Javert what I had
I needed he escaped from prison and then
became mayor and it wasn’t he could steal to do he was also powerful. He took
the throat of that one who walked after him. Javert. Javert the policeman walked after Jean Valjean.
Well now Javert the policeman brings money to the mayor,
right? Yes.
Good. What more do we say about European funds? About this wine. What’s your opinion?
Very it’s very good. And you tasted both this one and that one?
Both I must tell you Ovidiu took sommelier
courses and really knows his stuff. Come on, comment on the wine.
Actually we need to explain to people a bit that for me, not having
sight, the world of taste is important. In theory it compensates a bit for the gaps
I have and frustrate me. There are two wines. One is
if you miss a sense, surely all the others are much better developed.
Absolutely. But it was also an opportunity calculation to cultivate the world of taste. Yes. Right.
We have a red, cabernet sauvignon and white a sauvignon blanc. Both are good.
What I think you’ll like thanks to the soil, they are here, in
Argeș county, as I said at the beginning, but thanks to the soil and I think the
winemaker wants to highlight this element, they have a slight
sweet hint, which is pleasant. They’re light. The white is perfect.
Dry both. Man, don’t think any is semi-sweet wine. It’s dry, dry. No, don’t confuse. It’s dry. Conform and
it’s not what’s called fruity. Perfumed with fruit.
No, no, no, no, no, no. But the white is light. It’s good for summer
like this, it’s story-worthy. Look, we’ll continue, we’ll more we’ll return to the morning
agenda from the communist period, because I’m fascinated how you lost
time with logistical organization. So we’ll more we’ll interest you
it fascinates you that I lost from life until 28 years old I think
I know I know I know and nobody compensates those years for you
who compensates me nobody.
But I want to say something. When we met,
besides the problem to get croquettes and give you that, give you that,
we discussed all international politics from
Radio Free Europe, we knew all Reagan’s statements, although we had no
information source except Radio Free Europe and BBC rarely because it wasn’t caught very well.
So on Voice of America and Radio Free Europe, but Radio Free Europe, we discussed politics,
read books on where those forbidden, commented, I saw all the great films.
All great firms on video cassettes like this I saw them in groups of 10, 12.
And if I take the people today who were evening after evening at my house in
a 40 m² basement, not even 30 m², where I also gave tutoring, where
films were also watched, bridge was also played and everything you want, they’re all either head of large
surgery sections, or head of oncology sections, or lawyer at large real estate
and so on. So they all became extraordinary people. Listen, but let me ask you like this. If you
were the European Commission and had to choose three strategic domains
where to put money, where would you put a lot of money in the future
in Romania. Let’s see. Let’s first with Romania and
then we continue with the same answer for the European
level. Where would you put money? IT and that’s it.
You have that na, you have farms I’d buy Nvidia’s
production for the next years and I’d put I’d make farms. And for this normally
I need to put make energy too because we don’t have energy. So small nuclear plants
or small hydroelectric plants or solar panels small electric plants and
with that electricity huge AI farms.
OK. What will be needed? You asked me what to do?
I’m pragmatic with money. Well and do you think through investments
and Romanians are skilled at both hydroelectric and
But returning to artificial intelligence, do you think you have sufficient resources to
still succeed in being competitive with China and the United States? Haven’t you lost
the bet? Well I don’t want to invent a ChatGPT. You didn’t understand?
OK. I want to store ChatGPT information at my place at your house. Ah, OK. So data centers, right? So processing capacity,
actually that’s what v you didn’t understand. Do you think I want to invent the wheel? No, I don’t even
want to send spaceships to Mars. Well that’s because na, the competition is
I have no chance. With them it will be. That is
yes, but if I have cheap energy, cheap labor, cheap land and so on,
I make the farms here and the farms here are exactly 12 hours away.
Here here’s the risk. People can consider artificial intelligence a
sector, right? Artificial intelligence will represent most sectors.
And I ask you exactly everything. And then I ask you like this, what’s Europe’s
chance given that from a competitive point of view it lost the technological bet
with the United States and China. What should we do? Because besides an open-air
museum water we have sense that nothing remains?
Well someone will do. What?
Because someone needs to coordinate this artificial intelligence. Otherwise,
the others who won’t do anything, it’s not that they’ll starve. They’ll take from Peter
Thiel 1500 per month, will sit nicely at home until they revolt normally
and this is and they’ll give up the right to vote.
Listen, but look, that is returning to a form of slavery
through money. Listen, listen. So, listen because look we jumped from one subject
to another, but we communicate like this since we’ve known each other. That is, we didn’t invent this
style. Today comes.
Well it was your interview. I should have you more inverse.
Leave it, it’s It’s no problem. The public accepts that it’s important to discuss something
interesting. or the public tolerant with us. You have
artificial intelligence that gnaws quite a lot in certain sectors. In
Romania, in the last 20 years, following some facilities, some investments from
European money, much a cumulation of factors, you have an IT sector that will
also be proportionally affected by layoffs due to artificial
intelligence. What do you do with these people? Because they got used to living
well. Well, well, this time you’ll have a mass of unemployed who, to top it off,
was paid well. What do you do with them? That’s the problem.
You’re premier? What do you do with them? Ah, I’m premier. Well, first how many
talked in this electoral campaign about intelligence?
Nobody and it’s painful. We, we consumed ourselves saying what do we do with it? Well,
complex programs are needed. If you want solutions now in two minutes, right?
Let’s see something that passes. What do you do with hundreds of thousands of people who got used?
First solution you need to give them money to calm them, to stay home
and many, not how much is unemployment benefit. Yes.
Here and here you need to have pain.
Those who fire them you need those who left from Nokia now when
God left Nokia from Cluj they received compensation, but they were in their vast
majority factory workers, assembly because nothing was made
and I don’t know elsewhere. Absolutely. And but they were people who they and
then they had a salary because the problem of the Romanian people is serious because
the Romanian people didn’t he didn’t pass from steel industry to something else easily, but
let him pass from what he does today to artificial intelligence. Neither
yes look here’s a look this is an interesting topic. That is, nobody talks
about us. We moved to IT we didn’t
the Romanian people is proud. You realize that at that moment
we didn’t convert the decree professionals by passing them to IT. We sent
their children to the IT sector, the decree ones remained with the same activities they
studied in the ’80s. But Romanian now if you tell him to babysit to do,
he doesn’t want anymore. Well here’s the problem because you wake up with
a large number, these jobs won’t be replaced by artificial intelligence because
the robot won’t come to take care of the child. No matter how much the child screams and
tells him, look, I’d do like this. Look, maybe we don’t
have a solution, but we have the premier and president.
What would you do? I’d make like it’s not a public debate, that
it’s not us two. I want to reach. There are people who could come with ideas.
Say president of a country. even if it’s
Uganda. Yes,
all the easier in our case, because we’re still a country in the first half of the
global ranking from any point of view.
He if he sends an email to the head of Google, head of Microsoft, head of OpenAI
and invites to Romania for a conference on AI topic, those really come because he’s still a
state president. Right and he does. Why isn’t organized under
the high patronage of the president, man, some topics, think.
We’d have an international Olympic president in mathematics. No, until now we had
those who didn’t know what world they’re on, but this one at least knows. Think that 10% of
the country’s GDP comes from tech. That’s right.
Well 10% is enormous. So we have two sectors, tech and automotive, that if
they scratch a bit, if a bit all economy is in fever.
A bit if they all economy is in fever. What? What’s the reason you don’t see
any kind of any kind of initiative from the president,
premier? Make, good people, conferences because we’re more exposed
than most surrounding states to this artificial intelligence
phenomenon. So conscious that AI, one of the first
it will replace will be consultancy for European funds.
100%. Why cons
100%? 100%. But let’s determine it correctly.
Our role was defined or was
concretized following the fact that human resources from
authorities, from clients was insufficient to process the bureaucratic
volume to be able to absorb European money.
OK. So we ended up growing on the foundation of a deficit in resources at
my job will disappear because ChatGPT is smarter than Sima and tells stories
more beautifully. But I hope Sima’s charisma is so great that he’ll give me
there too to supplement my pension that won’t exist
anymore. I’m curious if reading a whole life about everything, if it will
still help me with something in the future when everyone has access to to what
believe believe me all the big deals I made in my
life me c I discussed at the table essentially it was
who’s the coolest at the table and being cooler than the others I was so
appreciated that they had trust yes I’ll tell you a secret you’re an ant
normally artificial intelligence but you’re also
Well agreed Well we’re some Yes, but artificial intelligence
what you’ll see. That is, let me tell you it’s easier because I’d you like talking with me over a
glass of wine here. You also have entertainment talent did you sit alone with ChatGPT
here on computer to drink V. We’ll reach like in Florence in the old days
when you were Saltim Bank. Anyway, Saltim Bank. But I don’t ask you, I’m weaker. If you had
ChatGPT here that would talk, would gesture, would have
Sima’s voice, would you sit drinking wine with ChatGPT instead of Sima
now? No, in a few I don’t know. We’ll see. Let’s stop here. Thank you.
Good luck, Ovidiu. Well, it was a pleasure.
Good luck everyone, parent wine from Dealul Goleștilor. You’ll see the link in
this clip’s description. I hope you learned something about communists, about
European funds. We didn’t bore you and take care. Last
show, from now on you’ll watch Feed Your Greed with ChatGPT, because we 1500 from
Peter Thiel and we stay home and no longer vote.
And I thank both the podcast’s host, and the hosts who
offered us the wine. Um, we’ll probably see each other again.
Sure, success at pulling European money. Those
who want to do this. And those who need to make decisions, don’t ask yourselves anymore
why we don’t spend them, we’ll spend them. On what? Let’s start thinking how we spend them too,
because I think it’s a bit more important and let’s not double European money with
national programs in such a way as to discourage European money.
Much success and thank you once more. All good
it was Ovidiu Tuduruță at Fed Your Green and thank you. All good. To be visible in
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