Pogačar Goes Nuclear On Vingegaard | Tour de France 2025 Stage 4 | Lanterne Rouge x JOIN Cycling

In this episode Patrick Broe and Benji Naesen recap the 4th stage of the 2025 Tour de France.

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🇦🇺 Patrick Broe – Host: https://www.youtube.com/@LanterneRougeCycling & https://www.instagram.com/the_lanterne_rouge_/ & https://www.twitter.com/lanternerougeyt
🇧🇪 Benji Naesen – Host: https://www.youtube.com/@BenjiNaesenTV & https://www.instagram.com/benjinaesen/ & https://www.twitter.com/benjinaesen
🇳🇱 Luc Grefte – Producer: https://www.twitter.com/lucgrefte

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Welcome back to Lantern Rouge Cycling Podcast for stage four of the tour to France. We have a crazy stage again uh finishing in Ru. It is a hill stage. It looks eerily similar to stage two, but this one I think was even harder with a steeper wall and very technical, tricky descents, a lot of nervousness, some crashes. 174ks from Amia Metropol to Rua and indeed the there’s no categorized climbs for the first 124ks the crosswind died down and went to maybe 15ks an hour not enough to cause echelons and not enough exposed sections too many people living in this part of France unlike the south uh southeast and then the hill zone begins with about 50ks to go we have a gradual climb but it’s just like stage two 30ks to go a 3minut 1.3 3k 9.2% climb with a narrow entry. Then a plateau and then a succession of three hills, two category 4s, and then a category 3. 900 m 7% 1.8k is 5%. That one’s on a big road though. That one’s less less steep and on a big road where there was a washing machine, a short plateau, and then a really twisty descent before the kick up to Santa. 800 m at 9% uh 5ks from the finish. And then the actual finish of this is not as hard as the other day. very short uphill sprint. Now, you spoke about the hills, etc. It’s also the fight to every hill, and that’s why you mention washing machine. For the newer viewers, it’s basically, okay, we’re trying to position ourselves for the next climb. In doing so, we wave our entire team to the front to stay in position, but another team does the same. So, they wave across our team and another team waves over that team. That’s a washing machine effect at the start of the pelaton, which could lead to trouble, could lead to squeezes, etc. Riders being squeezed out of position, potential crashes. That’s what makes positioning in cycling races before these hills more stressful. Especially with the amount of road furniture and weirdass corners in today’s stage. It was kind of ridiculous in the last 50 km every now and then in a certain descent in a slide uphill, stuff like that. But we got to start off slow, Patrick. We’re going to start off slow. Breakway goes up the road. And I did my rant yesterday. We get a fourman breakaway. Threeman initially. We’ve got Gashinar. Yay. I love him. Next to that we have Abrahamson and we’ve also got Lenny Martinez. And we hear from the commentator on TV, the the on the motorbike person that they asked the Bahin car what was the the motive to go in the breakaway. We expected more teams to try to go in the breakaway and we did too. I had a 5minute rant yesterday about potential stages like this and stage two for example where 15 teams in this pelaton have zero% chance to compete for the victory here and 10 teams have zero chance to finish in the top five here in my opinion on a a race as difficult as today’s stage picnic I can’t criticize only you look at stage two genuine chance FDJ Gregoire genuine chance vocal they legitimately could have won stage two. Yes, if it was played a bit differently. The other teams and I I was saying it on the watch along. Thanks everybody for listening. Uh this episode is brought to you by uh uh Morton. A word on them a second. Little Trek and and uh Intermar, they got to be very careful because Vanderpool right now doesn’t want the green jersey. Vibson crashed out yesterday. They they’re just reassessing. Vulnerable wants no business in the 50point pure bunch sprints, but there’s not many of them. And uh what you mean is he’s okay with having the ring jersey, but he doesn’t want to go to the struggle of bunch sprints to get it. Yeah. like if it’s handed to him on a platter and all he has to do to keep up with the lead is follow in some intermediate sprints and which are not that hectic albeit yesterday’s was but to follow fifth wheel and just take fifth then it becomes almost you have to do it and if he wins today if he does okay in the TT tomorrow I don’t think he’ll take points if he wins six or gets good positions in six and seven which are 50 pointers and then he’s sitting on 200 points and he’s got a 100 point lead. I think on the first rest day Alperson will will tell him you might want to think about contesting some intermediate sprints and Cadence’s not going to win it anyway. So we can go for you in the is now. That’s why I thought Tre with is not going to win. Nace is injured. Schoins Simmons even Nace himself sturaway is a good opportunity to win. Breaway takes away green jersey points from Vanderpool Binie. The same with Louis Baret with Yonas Ruch with these guys. Biggest chance to win is the Zimmerman. The biggest chance to win is the breakaway. I was really surprised to see such little enthusiasm to get in the break because I honestly been I look at these stages and you see just open the last climb. Everyone listening knows. Yep. 5ks to go steep as [ __ ] wall two to France stage on offer. Literally two guys have a 90% win probability and then there’s a 10% chance for some attackers like a Vizma or Vocal Picnic Gregoire. That’s it. That’s it. No one else has a chance. Exactly. So the chances to get something out of the stage is to do it early and we don’t see that with this breakaway of three initially. Ogen is the one that joins later. So F must have thought of it’s a bit of a weird move by F in my opinion cuz I wanted them to be in the breakaway cuz I want to see a large breakaway in this stage. But if you see that it’s a threeman breakaway to then try and bridge solo towards a three-man breakaway that makes it feel like that’s a useless effort because then it’s a useless breakaway. Then it’s a breakaway that won’t make it. So I like seeing EF trying to go in the breakaway but too late. Maybe if they go in the early one maybe then another team joins as well. They may maybe then it’s more than four riders. Anyway, four eyes in the breakaway. They get a gap of 2 minutes. Alperson is controlling the only team controlling in the pelaton. Credits to Dier and maybe for Sing as well. Not sure if he did much, but saw Deier most of the time at the front of the pelaton. gap is basically a minute 30, a minute 20, a minute 10 towards the important phase of the race because weirdly in today’s stage, you spoke about it initially on the on the watch lung and also when it comes to the route, the intermediate sprint is 3 km before the the first important climb outside of the logistics of that. Isn’t that just dangerously planned? It’s weirdly planned. And whether it’s dangerous or not, I’m not sure, but it I think it is probably because you have then the sprinters teams fighting the GC teams for position. What’s more weird to me about it is I went and had a nap again. I’ve been having some good ass naps. I’m telling you, I’ve been having I’ve been pacing myself. I know how to pace myself, taper, everything. This is our sixth tour to France, not our first rodeo. And there was a lot of nothing happening in this stage where it could have probably done with an intermediate sprint with halfway the stage on the random plateaus there in a village and then given us something to talk about for 15 minutes. Um instead the intermediate sprint happened. I don’t really know who won. I don’t care. I did no one cared at the time cuz it happened and then they’re turning right into the pivotal climb. Like all right, irrelevant. It was just it was just strange. Milan ends up winning from the pelaton. There’s still breakway riders ahead where Abraham Hamson takes it from a bit of an early attack away from the others where he wasn’t really contested much. Milan takes it in a bunch ahead of Binyam and Merier. There was a small akaf we call it in Belgian. I don’t know what the English word is for Akafiche, but it’s basically Rex going to the right and turn still being there. The leadout’s almost colliding. Looks like Rex went into turns. The thing is you might be asking, okay, why is turn still there, etc. That is because Milan is taking the full points, but the goal of the track is for turns to then take away points from other sprinters. I think I think he’s I think the riskreward calculation there is wrong because first of all, there’s two guys for green plus an MVP if they let him into it. It’s Binnie and Milan and Milan’s the heavy to me. This is Milan’s green jersey competition to lose. If you like many of you all again, Vizma don’t have a rider going for the green jersey. Anyway, I still looked at every stage profile last night. Where’s the intermediate sprint placement? Yeah, all of the intermediate sprint placements are insanely early in stages. They have positioned on 90% of the stages, the intermediate sprint before any climb. There’s one stage where it’s like 4ks after a 1.5k 6% climb. outcome von to culde laoa is on the false flat valley in the first 20ks. So I like it for break formation for break formation cuz T will extend it and and control longer. But this is not a green jersey competition suited to a beanie who by the way is not climbing that well even a Pison because you can’t get in a break then go over some hills and then take a full intermediate sprint point delta. Especially cuz stages like today are ridden so harshly from the GC teams that a Pison would have a hard time surviving a stage like this. He wouldn’t. Yeah, I don’t see it. I don’t see it. It’s It’s MVP and then like pure punchers and then guys under 70 kegs. So I don’t see it now. Maybe he comes eighth take some points. I don’t know. But to me, Milan’s the heavy favorite. And then to your point about turns. So then the riskreward, he’s on he’s on a yellow now. Yeah, you’re on a yellow. If you get a second yellow, you’re out of the race. Now it was Rex moving into turns. I don’t think turns did anything wrong, but the point is he is trying to still squeeze past a Rex who’s closing him. Don’t put it in the commissair’s hands, especially when they’re trigger happy on giving yellow cards to begin with. If there’s a crash in a sprint, someone is getting a yellow and it shouldn’t be like that. Yeah, that that shouldn’t be the case, but that is what they’re doing, especially at the start of the tour. And if I was turns, I would have backed off because first of all, Binnie’s already ahead of you taking you’re not taking points from Binie. Like you’re taking a point from [ __ ] I don’t know, Akaman or someone. Yeah. But my question now is we’ve had this discussion over the years with intermediate sprints. Okay. Lead out to try and take points away for the sprinter. Why have we come to the conclusion that now it is not worth it from risk to reward while it was in 2020 2021 and 2022? Is it because recently we’ve seen more crashes at intermediate sprints and more erratic behavior? I just think it’s a point of emphasis like in the NBA they would often have points of emphasis certain rules that they would say okay we’re going to actually police these rules really more aggressively in the past we know and I think it’s just a point point of emphasis um so you’re saying that the commissers are applying the rules more strictly than back then really really strictly yeah they are deviation police did work in that or deviation police I said we retired we had we we don’t have to do it anymore um if anything we sometimes have to police the other way around now yeah like cocka got yellow. I mean, me and you discussed adnauseium, the how the crash happened. You know, I wouldn’t say he’s blameless, but I wouldn’t have given him a yellow either. Yeah. It’s like for me, a UCI commissary needs to be able to apply the rules as written, but being able to interpret it with understanding of how a cycling race works. And in my opinion, yesterday it’s okay. Kokar caused the crash by doing that move. That’s why we give a yellow card instead of instead of looking at it from the perspective of does giving this yellow card disincentivize such behavior in the future? Not necessarily. Because that’s the kind of behavior that writers do unconsciously that they won’t be able to fix. Well, Kokard Kokard doesn’t know what he did wrong. Yeah. And it’s very hard to illustrate it. And it’s like people that hit a dog 2 hours after it’s peed on the carpet. You know, it doesn’t know. Hit a dog. Oh, I fought with a car. You know, it’s he doesn’t know what it did and it’s just pointless. Um Would you hit a dog with a car 2 hours after a piss on a carpet? No, with a hand. Um, Toby Toby hits me a lot actually. Like if he wants 2 hours in the mountains, he lets me know. So, you’re a doormat here. I’m a doormat to Toby. Toby Toby really like runs my day pretty much. Um, anyway, but speaking of the mountains, I was I was going to I was going to do the segue today. Sorry. I was going to say speaking of the dog, every now and then you go into the mountains with a dog. Do you use Morton nutrition during those adventures? Exactly. This episode is brought to you by Morton, the fueling choice of the world’s best cyclists and me in the mountains, including riding the tour to France. I crunched an Ordino yesterday. I was feeling really, really good. The hydrogel goes down perfectly even in hot conditions. It’s hot here in Andor. Your throat can get dry and it’s not one of those sticky gels that you know is half dissolved in your pocket and tastes tastes horrible going down. It’s really, especially in the heat. In the heat in summer, or if you’re in a if you’re in summer in the northern hemisphere now or in the Australia in summer, I’m telling you, the Morton gels are unbelievably good and easy to digest. Um, and that’s because of their hydrogel technology. It allows you to absorb more carbs with less stomach trouble. And that’s another reason I’m climbing. I don’t we don’t have much choice around here, as Benji knows, out the door. We got an HC coal 11 10ks 7% to 2,000 m. But I got to eat. takes me a while to get up there. I got to eat during the climb and I still digest it well. So whether you’re racing, training, or just trying to stay consistent on the bike, Morton’s Drink Mix makes fueling simple, effective, and gut friendly as well. That’s another tip. Sometimes you can forget to get a gel out of your pocket. Well, if you want a hot tip to survive the heat, mix one sache of Morton’s drink mix with 500 mls of water. Refrigerate it ahead of time. It’s in your bike, and then every time you want to take a sip cuz you’re thirsty, you’re getting the carbs in. The hydrogel remains stable. So, just make sure you let it thaw before drinking and consume it within 24 hours. Right now, you can get 20% off drink mixes or gels with code morton TDF at morton.com. The code’s valid through 27 July 2025. I guess that’s when the tour ends, Benji. So, I’ve now realized realized that I don’t know what day it is right now. I have no idea where we are. July 8th, my friend. Yeah, but it was it’s a Tuesday apparently. We’re in Italy. The code excludes bike. It’s one time use per customer and can’t be combined with other promotions. So, fuel smart, ride like the pros, try Morton. Okay, Benji, the meat of the stage. 30ks to go. First climb. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We got to talk about Oh, true. Allip, I feel so bad for him, man. We see him dropping off the back of the pelaton. He clearly has a mechanical, has a teammate with him, and those two riders go to the team car. Alafipe gets off his bike, and the mechanic comes out of the car with a a wheel. And I’m like, we’re both like, we’re screaming at the TV. This is the final of a tour to France stage on which Allah Philipe has a chance to a top seven top five position maybe if he has a really good day in that case before the final before the important climb with 30 km to go there’s about two 3 to 5 km to go towards that climb there is no way you can change the wheel give the bike a push and him being faster than just giving him a bike I couldn’t believe it like what’s the chance just like you you don’t change the bike at the start of the stage and you change the wheel when the racing’s not on so you can save the spare bike for later. Yeah, maybe Alfipe I know he seems a bit like finicky superstitious or yeah like yeah finicky like you said maybe he really doesn’t want to change bike I’m not sure that’s the case here you have to change the bike cuz if he has to change again well his stage is done anyway if you got to change a second time you’re finished and does he come back with the bike change straight away maybe I think makes a big difference man like 15 20 seconds I think he Look, as a proportion of these climbs, Benji, so he has to come back on a 1.3k 9% climb that takes them, let me guess, 3 minutes. And so he has to do it in 2 minutes. [ __ ] He had to close a big gap through the convoy. Anyway, 15 to 20 seconds is a very high proportion of that 3minut climb. And to go even harder on 9% is putting you deeper in the red. So I couldn’t believe they didn’t just change the bike. And that was him done. Felt bad for him. Good stage for him, but he’s over. Abrahamson takes the intermediate. Milan won the bunch sprint. As we said, we went through the intermediate already. Group wins the drag race again. Lewiski is the goat at positioning. There is literally nobody better into uh the point. If there is a point in a race that everybody wants to be first wheel into in a corner, Lewis Aski is the best in the world. Put new blood onto the M. Um stages in this race on stage two. I I let’s say it was him today. Clemer Russo is also excellent at it um for FDJ. They’ve been and cuz they do all those French races like Dunkerk where it’s literally this region and they’re just fighting into for these. But yeah, they know the streets, my friend. They know the streets. They just they’re so good at it and they just watch and it’s not even a big train. It’s like three guys shoot from the back. Um there’s a crash though, Benji. Pretty high up the bunch. There’s a road narrowing after the climb. Who Who was pacing on the climb though? receiver and so they were changing UAE were indeed pacing but the crash you’re talking about happens that was after after the crash of Faracle so on that climb we see UAE pacing and towards the top we see I think so taking over a bit which then causes Alafip to be completely doomed and he does make it back a little bit but then he gets dropped again so from this point onwards we we’ll stop talking with Alfipe he’s out of the race basically but in that crash after that important climb we just mentioned selective climb to be honest about quite a bit of the pelaton is already gone but the crash like you have said happens relatively 35% into the pelaton I would say on the left side of the road wide road goes into narrow road and this is in my opinion an organizer’s mistake and something that a UCI safety manager in the race should call out if there’s a change from a wide road into a narrow road it should be a gradual narrowing not a instant narrowing where half the road just disappears cuz that makes it so that the pelaton will wait until the last moment to try and move up and move past people and doing so and that will cause people to not be signaled in time and they will ride into the barriers or they will they will break check or they will crash as a consequence. We’ve all been there on the motorway when there’s a lane closure. They don’t signal it 100 meters before. I hope not. There’s a there’s gradual signals narrowing the road so you have time to move over. Uh that doesn’t happen here. Yeah, I mean we saw a minute I was like crash it going to happen the descents here I think UA were pacing to me UAE were pacing the descents harder than the climbs which suggests to me not the last climb but the f the the the climb at 28ks to go. Yeah, Civikov went hard but Groves was there. You know Murus is there. It’s not so there. They weren’t trying to launch him early. It probably still hurt Viper’s legs to me. UAL all well I think their priority number one was not crashing in this chaos on in this road furniture on these descents. I think so too because we initiate initially spoke about it earlier in this podcast that these last 40 km have traffic islands in the descents after the descents etc. So UAE pacing on the climb helps make the group a bit more selective but also helps position themselves over the top in doing so making them fast in the pelaton. If a crash happens in in P20 P25 UAE is ahead of that and UA did that perfectly for the first for this climb but also for the next two climbs that followed after that and we we we see that continuing from that point. But I will say I got to give credit to a different team as well who also did that where they don’t show up every single descent but every now and then Moistar comes to the front with Ivan Garcia Cortina Olivera and their positioning for MS has been excellent in multiple stages this year. Nelson Olive is unbelievable like he’s 36 35 I don’t know how old he is. He’s doing one extra year retiring. No no one extra year next year. Nice. Gio Cortina I think has a lot of potential probably could get more out of it but this tour to France is he’s been excellent in positioning really really excellent those two for Mars and these are not stages Mars would be when when Mastar see this profile of the first week when the route was revealed they’d be thinking [ __ ] like Enri’s getting you know and and enrich himself he’s fighting it’s not just it’s it’s okay to have two good rulers but the GC contender also has to hold the wheel his descending has improved from us over the a significant problem. What did we see from Albasin on these first two and a half climbs? Albus won an easy race. It’s a uphill kick. If he if you bring Vonipool there with fresh legs, he wins. We saw that on stage two. And UA kind of wants the opposite. They want to keep numbers through the descent, but they want to make it hard. It’s really tricky. I think they balanced it really, really well. Um, UAE pace the descent, they begin pacing the descent with Cair. Tim Wellins quite wisely says, “Mark, I’m going to need you to move. I’ll do this descent.” Now, I will say I feel like it was a bit more on the if we talk about the the third last climb and especially the the gradual climb that comes after the point you’re talking about on those clims, Yoi also started hammering it on the climb. You think there’s a thought in their mind that they’re like MSR style, let’s try and make it as hard as possible to try and get much of the pull in trouble because Pogach wants his 100 victory today. Oh no, they wanted to win 100%. 100%. But there’s also we saw on the sweeping left-handed when there was road furniture out of it. You want to be you want to be single file and it’s easier to be single file up front and so I think UA were doing two things. Uh they were strong enough to do it for the most part. But then there’s a key point 2K uh 10ks to go. There’s a the positioning battle has been really intense into the previous two climbs which are narrower narrower entry and no real flat sections. It’s uphill descent uphill descent. The next climb is only 5% 4 and a half%. It’s a wide road and so UAE take control and we see Camponauts moving up with Jurgensson with Vanard moves himself up even uh with Benote. Vingard had been quite nervous. Ate a shitload of wind today. Probably too much wind again himself. Vingar’s been on Pogs Wheel and then that lead out comes and then Camponauts just starts to absolutely drill it. Waves over UAE. But for UAE, it’s actually not a big problem. They’re in P6 to 9. It means it’s single file. Navvice is can maintain his position with Almea. They don’t have to do the descent. And so Vizma were clearly trying to put it in. Visma was trying to split it. And they split it. This descent is not. It’s 7% very very twisty. Half two/ird of the way down the descent. You can’t even see it on the profile. There’s a 300 meter kicker that comes out of two 90° corners and if anyone drops the wheel in front of you, it’s going to split. Talking about dropping the wheel, what was the order of the Vizma riders that we saw in that group? Because we’ve got companyards at the front, Vingarot in second wheel as high up in the train as possible just in case but eating too much wind probably. That’s true, but it’s probably worth it for the risk of crashing in my opinion. If your own teammate crashes you, then it’s all over. It’s happened before. Yeah, exactly. Martin’s not in the game anymore, so that’s a benefit. But you’re right, you know, and then yeah, maybe Jurgensson, Benite, and then last was was Vanard. And then Remco dive bombed Pogy at the start of this descent and took the wheel of Vingard off him. Pagatio wasn’t happy not being directly on the wheel of Vanard for a good reason because out of the end of this descent, Pogy reclaims the wheel of Vanard and then Renco drops the wheel out of a corner, has to do a full sprint back. Um there’s splits, Felix Gulls behind uh after an ascent that’s not exactly a surprise. lip of it. Lip it was fully gapped on the descent on the kickers. Yes. Um and it’s a wide road, but there’s these rollers which you can barely see on the profile. Roll still there though at this point. Roll still there in good position. Vanderpool in good position. So we’re still going in with all the main favorites into the final climb. Patch though has two teammates crucially which he didn’t have right there in Ruan in stage two. He’s got Navi and Ala. Na begins the nuclear lead out. Vingard moves onto his wheel. Um, you can’t actually see at the start of this climb was like 7% but then it goes left right and then it’s a wall for 400 meters 300 meters really really steep like we’re talking 15 16% very hard climb takes over from Navias says I’mma have this dance he starts hard pacing and then Pagatcha jumps Vanderpool doesn’t respond Vingard has to actually close cuz he wasn’t on Pog’s wheel he has to close to the wheel of Pagatcha is that a mistake or was it impossible to move up past Vanderpool I think Vingard should have you got two options. You either just accept Vulnerable as the wheel and sit on his wheel and take a proper draft or you just fully claim the wheel off him. I think sitting like half off his wheel, half wheeling him. I know it’s really steep so it doesn’t matter but that’s probably the worst of both worlds. Um but I don’t think I don’t think it makes a big difference frankly. But anyway, Pagatcha, it looks like Vingar’s holding him. The gap to everybody else is huge. Vingard’s following, following, following. Pagatch is out of the saddle, like smashing it. We think he has to sit down at some point. The the meters are ticking down in the top ticker. 200 to go. 150, 160, 100. And then Vingard full. It looks like he full stops. Yeah. He He looks behind, he’s like, “Please someone take over for me.” He looks in front of him again. I’m like, “Okay, Pagacha’s gone. Stage is over.” Pugatcha takes the stage. Okay. That’s what I expect. Gap to the others is huge, by the way. I’m talking not just 10 meters. It’s like 30, 40, 50 m at this point. So those two had a huge gap before Yonas Vingo loses the wheel, looks behind, but just before the top, Bugattach stalls in tempo and Yonas Vingo finds a last grasp of air on this climb, fires it up again, and gets back to the wheel at the top. Now, it reminded me of Qu Marie. It did in some sense, but we got to talk about it from two angles because I would argue that from one perspective, you’d say, “Okay, Pogacher stalled, he was out of energy, etc.” There’s going to be people that are going to say he sat up on purpose, but bro, what after that attack, it would make no sense, right? Why would he sit up on purpose? I don’t believe that’s the case either. You’ve just done the huge effort. Vingard looks like he’s [ __ ] right away for a glorious solo victory. Like even the argument of he wants much of the pool to come back to stay in yellow doesn’t make sense either. No no no. So I see no argument, no valid argument for Pagotch slowing down in tempo on purpose. That was because he went over his limit doing his attack, which is fine. It was probably one of the crazier two minute attacks I’ve seen in a while. Yeah, but he knows that if he gets the gap over the top and it’s Mano cuz the problem is it’s not like normal cycling 10 years ago, there’s no one to help Vingard cuz the gap from these two, let’s say Pagach is okay, we all agree Patch is the best cyclist in the world, best ever. Vingard is then in his own tier. Yeah. But then and there’s a gap and then the the gap still from Yonas to anybody that might help him is still big. So if they’re both [ __ ] but he’s got the gap, it’s still manoymano. Yeah. And I think they just both stalled. I think so too. I think so too. But we can conclude then that at the top of this climbing was able to follow Pagacha on a brutal two-minute attack which on this type of attack wouldn’t it had it on my written spreadsheet that Vingo would be able to uh follow Pagatcha at that tempo because that was a series attack like Pagatcha. very very impressed. He’s on the aero bike today. Um maybe that helped him in the in the final sprint, but yeah, just out of the saddle the whole time. Ramco chose to do his own pace behind, but basically they full sprinted on 15%. I’m just watching the final bit now and when Pagatcha like extended right at the end to drop Vingard, but like Vingard comes back at him quicker at the end. Well, he must by definition to get back to the wheel. That’s also I got a new I got a new epithet for everybody. We need like a merch t-shirt with all our like super obvious quotes cuz this shit’s getting extreme. The rider catching the rider behind that is catching and gaining on the rider in front is riding faster than the rider in front. Um I’m trying to figure out a situation where that’s not the case. What if the rider behind is standing still? Is he riding faster than someone going backwards? No one’s riding backwards. I think uh I think you’re wrong by the law. Maybe Pog thought he was still in the wheel. Well, and and just stopped over the top to not get counted. He looked a bit tired. I’m trying to be I’m trying to be gener like I think Come on. We got to be enthusiastic. There’s two two and a half weeks of the tour coming. We saw Vingov follow Pagacho on a climb. We got to overreact right now and we got to look at a situation where we’ve got two people fighting for the tour to France victory right now. And this is the big difference the case. Right. What we see here compared to the Arden’s Benji is so different when Pog goes in the Arden on on Redude. Yeah. He has a gap straight away. And so but Jonas is not there. Jonas is not there. So he can immediately like he just does the minimum possible to have a 10-second gap at the front at the top of Red. And then he doesn’t go near over his limit and then he just drills it in the rolling terrain. See you later. Group two syndrome curtains here to drop Vingard. He can’t do that. He has to go absolutely full. Um but yeah, I mean they both went full. It was really impressive. I think I’m trying to see the gap to the to the top at Renco. I think Renco paced this pretty well. I think he he shouldn’t try to follow a brute attack by Pogacho or Ving on a climb like this. He should pace any climb in this entire tour to France unless it’s like an actual like uphill sprint. He should pace any climb with if there’s space to come back afterwards, he should pace any climb at his own time uphill mountain tempo. I think he paced it pretty well. Um so credits to him. But now we have the situation over the top. We have a a bit of a plateau then a descent and then a short kick up to the line. Uh Pagata is on the front. Vingar’s not immediately relaying. And in the group behind we’ve got Ala won’t pull. Vanderpool won’t pull. Jorgensson. Jorgensson won’t pull. Remco has to chase. Who’s the fifth rider only? Only respect Oscar only. I think he was too cooked to pull. I’ll be honest. And then the group just behind Remco. It’s a really small gap I’m seeing now. Very small gap to Vocal, Greg, Galosa. Yeah. But Remco on the flat just starts to drill it and that that puts those guys further behind. So Pogy does relay for a fair bit. doesn’t get a turn from Vingard until maybe 4.3ks, but by then Remco’s pretty much shut the gap. Why does Ving take over in this situation? Cuz if they go to the finish line together, you’d on paper say Pogata wins the sprint nine out of 10 times unless it’s Puddi. You ensure a four bonus second delta. You make Pog lead it out. You can stop riding in the last K like in San Luca. You can still try and win the sprint like in stage 11 last year. And you can make it a longer period of time that you’re caught. Exactly. So that then Jorgensson can just do one attack in the last K. Fair. And then we enter the the next phase of the race where Enku actually brings the others back. And then we get into the the fun group dynamic phase of these last four three kilometers roughly. And we get that group of seven riders now in total where we see Greguard Vocaland the third rider. I completely forgot. Skillmore in the background gradually trying to come back, but it’s going to be difficult for them to come back because we got attacked left and right in the front group and straight away I think Jorgensson was maybe the first one once the group came back took maybe two three seconds after a corner and then Jorgensson bang goes on one side of the road. Patcha sees it. He speeds up gets to the wheel. So that’s the one Patcha actually closes himself and then I’m thinking okay because he doesn’t know Al’s there yet. True. But on top of that, I’m now thinking who’s going to be the next rider to do so. I on paper, you could say Vizma could try and roll attacks on on Pagacha here, but I was more looking at it should be Vingard. It should be. Well, it’s an option. I think it’s a valid option. You said roll attacks. Rolling attacks with one rider is less effective than two riders. Well, you can also roll attacks with one rider plus other people in the race and use the other ones. Yeah. But the question then is is Pagacha gonna care about only attacking only who’s completely [ __ ] at this point by the way. So that was not going to happen. Only wrote a good final wrote a better Patcha won’t close that and that’s where we see did we see Almeida coming to the front before we saw Demco attack or after begins pacing the short descent. Jurgensen in the wheel then then Vingard um then he stops on the descent with 3.1ks to go. Takes a swig of his drink on and Remco I think rode a very very good final today. They just yeah they basically didn’t put a foot wrong. We have Gregoire and Vocal coming banchos nearly coming back on the descent and then there’s it’s just so fast downhill and then out of the corner we see Remco Avanapole wind it up. He attacks with 2ks to go. The problem is he does it through a corner. Almeida gets in the draft. He gets has a short gap but Almeida is still getting draft. Next corner he takes a really really bad line nearly crashes. has to break and Ala’s back in the wheel through the next corner. So, Ala’s I would say the biggest improvement from Almea this year is his like intangible skills, his cornering, his positioning. To me, that’s more like I didn’t expect him to be there doing this. Almeida was the MVP for Pog today. He gets on the radio at 1.5Ks to go. Say, what do we do? What’s the play? Jorgensson winds it up, though. He goes from the right hand side past Almeida, who didn’t really see it coming, but now we’re 1.3ks from the finish. And Jurgensen had a gap. He takes a better corner than Ramco, but Ala is just so strong. Almeida is able to wind him back. MVP, he starts moving up gradually. No, I think MVDP stuffed himself here. Is he doing the I’m still gold race thing where he’s like, I found my way back at this point. Now I need to start sprinting early and he starts moving rider by rider up to towards like P4 roughly. MVP rises a really really bad final hill here. 7 800 meters to go. Al is about to close Jorgensson. And Ramco’s in the wheel. Ving guards on Remco’s wheel. He’s got Pog. Vanderpull has Pog in his wheel. It’s uphill. Almeida is just going to keep pacing. Yeah. And they’re going to close it. He He then goes and half wheels Almeida. And so he’s done eager. Yeah. Like he was just too eager in that moment. I don’t think it makes the difference. But remember, it’s a very short uphill and then it’s flat for 250 300 m. I don’t really Yeah, I don’t know why MVDP didn’t play it this way. And then when it actually flattens off, he’s kind of gassed. Pog is the least gassed of everybody. Remorgansen are on a gap and then in this sprint, Bog is able to come out of the wheel. Wins his hundth professional victory in the Rainbow Bands. Vanderpool just holds on to second ahead of Vingard. UAE wanted the stage win. They took the stage win. They took more time. Six bonus second delta on Vingard. And I think that also didn’t put a foot wrong. I mean, it’s not just about winning the stage these stages, Benji, but [ __ ] can go really wrong. I mean, we saw you can get put on a gap, you can crash, have a mechanical. They had a flawless race pretty much. Almeida was excellent. I think Almeida for third right now is looking very, very strong because he’s doing these lead outs and not being put on a gap. It’s also because like on paper you’d say Honda always beats Pugacha on a finish like this but in the last kilometer there were a few signals where the moving up rider by rider with Pagach and the wheel that’s for me something an advantage towards Pugachar. Next to that, the aggressiveness of the last 30 km, every single hill being shredded by UAE added to that. I I felt like Pugacha was going to have the upper hand. And we we see Vondool crumbling in his whenever he crumbles in a sprint, which does not happen often, but whenever he does, it looks exactly like this. He gets out of the saddle, can’t keep sprinting, sits down, Bacha Bang wins, and he he gets his 100th victory in this Rainbow jersey. So Wellins taking the KM yesterday has actually made the picture a little bit better on his Instagram tonight. Exactly. Although he does retake the K I believe from Tim Wellins. Pagata wins the stage ahead of Vanderpool. Vingard third. Oscar Onley very impressive fourth. Gregoire fifth. He came back and sprinted there fifth. Almeida sixth. Aan Jorgensson on a 3-second gap. And then Elmo ninth. Vog on 7 seconds. Vocal on 10 seconds. Vanard on 30 seconds led a group of Parapantra Bod Navias and Tobias Johannison. Mar and Roglish lost 32 seconds. Goal lost 54 seconds with Bitrago and Lipovitz. How did Rogish lose 32 seconds? Well, he was dropped on the last climb and he never came back. But he was in good position. Like no shouldn’t be dropping Rogish on that climb by that much, but he did to be honest. Throughout this the last 10 days, I have never felt the rogitch hype for the podium. Maybe I will regret saying that by the last two weeks, but I don’t see that right now. But I think Rogich should be happy that he hasn’t crashed out yet, that he hasn’t crashed as much as Remco yet. That’s a that’s a win for Rogich at this point. Yes, it’s half a minute. But at the end of the day, if you look at the gaps of last year, if you look at the gaps at the end of the 2024 tour of France and we look at GC, the gap between third place and fourth place is 10 minutes, then there’s a minute, four minutes in between, another minute, another minute and a half. Like losing half a minute here might not mean much by the end of this sort of France. Yeah, I think I think once we get into the big mountains, it’s it’s about who’s healthy and we could be talking minutes rather than seconds. But still, the Bora guy is shipping a lot of time. It’s not like the Remco losing 3 seconds today. Yeah, that’s not like today was, it’s weird to say, but today was a good day for Remco. I think Remco had a very solid stage cuz his podium bid is looking great, especially a day after the crash. It was good for Remco personally. He had to do a shitload himself positioning wise. I think he tried to use Vanderpool but into that descent he took good position but Van Wilder just avoided a crash. Katano crashed today. So his maybe his best ruler obviously Katano, right? I’m pretty sure it was Katano. Yeah, cuz initially I fought VP. Me too. Yeah. Um so I think for Quickstep more broadly they were not so good today especially with that crash won’t help. Um but GC Verpool is just still in the yellow jersey on stage placements I guess ahead of Pagatcha. Vingard is on 8 seconds. Uh Jorgensson is on 19 seconds. In fourth, Vocal is on 26 seconds. Enriquey Mast is in sixth on 48 seconds. Mar have to be happy with that. Only is in 55 seconds. Same time Almeida in seventh and eighth. Aanable 58 seconds. Shel Moa 102. Johannes drops from eighth to 11th. R is Roglish. Huh? Roglish is on 127 in 13th. Lipovitz is on 149 in 20th. Uh goal is on 149. Carlos Rodriguez 205. Like they’re not the only riders from the top five, top 10 potential riders that have lost time. But Demco is the best positioned third rider in GC, right? If we if we look at GC because you’d say Bogacher Vingal looking fantastic. And Moss looking solid when it comes to time as well. But I’d say that at MCU I’d expect to be better across the tour France. Maybe in the mountains that I might regret saying that. Almeida’s looking good in GC as well. So we should not forget him cuz I actually picked him to podium. So I definitely should not forget him. Ah it’s I actually don’t really think these gaps half a minute there, half minute there will matter much in the mounts. No, if you’re better you’re better and you’ll take a minute plus on the others. Yeah, on paper in the world of Pagata and Vingard gaps maybe I mean probably on plat was the same but then the rest of the field might be a little bit closer than the the gaps they have. Um in terms of the points jersey Milan I mean with Vanderpool still coming second taking 30 points. Milan is still 12 points ahead of Vanderpool and Pagata in the green jersey competition. So you really have to contest the intermediates to be competitive in that competition. And uh such a shame Philipsson is out for the sake of the competition itself. Philson would have walked it. Um okay. Is it better for the tension of the green jersey that Philips out? I know like Milan and Philipsson would have been a good battle but I think Philipsson would have taken it but uh maybe maybe I’m underrating Milan in his train. Um well based on what we’ve seen so far then what let’s talk about GC then the real story Benji. What what can what conclusions can we draw from this from Vingard and Pagatcha? Well, I it’s it’s difficult to say because last year I feel like when when we saw Vingov follow Pagacha on on San Luca climb and Fenz, we also had a feeling of like, okay, we’ve got a battle. It’s a 1 v one. We’ve got a tour of France on our hands. So, it’s easy to come to that conclusion after a hill stage on day four. I need to see a high mountain stage before I can conclude the finger is remotely close to Pugachar which he wasn’t at Dolphin. So my fear is that we will go to the high mountains and Pugachar will still drop Vinga. Maybe not Dolphin style but there will still be a difference. That’s my expectation now. I hope for the sake of a race it’s a close battle but I’m not sure I believe that even with today finger go following Pugatra on that climb. It certainly helps the tension. We have some pretty hard. We have a TT tomorrow, but yeah, it’s it’s better for the attention that Bingard didn’t get dropped. Yeah, that’s one of my It’s Yeah, it’s good to not get dropped. So, that being said, it’s a really steep wall. Y um I don’t really have any conclusion to draw from this. It’s like these two are just so much better than the others. And yeah, Pogy is still the favorite. And when it comes to the podium candidates, I also don’t have a conclusion yet because in the mountains it will be different. You’ll see different people come to the forefront. Maybe the same people come to the forefront, but someone else will show up as well and we’ll see a different battle for the podium. So, I don’t know. It’s I I do enjoy seeing the way Jorgensson has been really strong across these days. I don’t expect he will pium the tour of France, but he will be an important factor in the race in some fashion. It also shows Jurgensen should do the Alden next year or some of the Alden. Yeah. like finger can’t he’ll be laying woodwork in his kitchen but um he but for Jorgensson like the way he’s following Renco and Co and dropping serious punchers like Gregoire and Verlan. I mean that being said Benji in reality if Vingal is not in Leazge style races like today like what if Vingar is not there today Pogy wins by a minute? No, I mean it’s 5ks. A minute, mate. And Remco is not uh they start looking at each other. Group two syndrome. I’m telling you, group two syndrome can make it a minute. Nah, like 30 seconds. Yeah, maybe 20. Cuz Remco would just ride full on the flat, but then no one would help him. He’d get mad. He’d get mad. Yeah. And then Pogy wouldn’t have to go as deep on the climb. So, he’s got more after the climb to push. Got the moto. Yeah. 30 seconds. So, it changes a lot. Um, a minute wouldn’t have happened, that’s for sure. A minute, I don’t think that math that math doesn’t work out. You would have needed the motor bike that was in front of Genards in that one descent. Yeah. Um, okay. Tomorrow’s TT from Cayenne to Cayenne. It’s 33 km. It’s a very very flat time trial. Uh, it’s not technical outside of Cayenne. It’s long straight roads and uh we have three intermediate time checks at 8 km, 16 km, and 24 km. So, we have four different time checks. Beautiful stuff. We we actually love that. Um it does make it more exciting to have that. Remco is the heavy favorite with Pipo Gana having abandoned the race with a crash. Remco I think looked very very good today legsswise and Remco to me remains the heavy favorite for this stage. Can he make up 58 seconds on the gatcher in this TT? I don’t think so. I think the gap that he can make up is 40ish seconds. That is my expectation. That’s maybe on the high side when it comes to them in the half the length of a TT in the Dolphin A. Wow. He took 48 seconds. I I’m not sure I want to look at the Dolphin ATT for this time. Why? Up to this point, that looks like an exception for Pagatra’s TT performances. Why? What other TT did you do? In the last couple of years, we’ve seen good TTS from from Pogachar. Yeah, but if it was a position problem, I’d be surprised that that’s just like fixed in two weeks. That is true. Pagasha’s legs. I’m pretty sure they’re good. Are you sure? So, I haven’t seen good ones recently. Couldn’t drop finger. Can’t believe it. I think it’s possible Ramco takes yellow. Ah, but I agree. But would be great for it’s possible. I don’t think it happens because I actually think the hill made it more complicated in that do TT for Patcha. I think a flat TT where he just gets up to speed and in rhythm. He’s not losing as much. You think their pacing plan sucks? To be honest, I don’t know what the [ __ ] happened in that TT. He Yeah, he was ass. So I mean So yeah, I don’t really know. Um and would I expect Pagatcha to Yeah, like you say, do a bad TT again? Not really. So it’s a flat one. I think it be it could be close. Remco has to be on special legs. What do you Yeah, I think Remco wins the TT for me. Remco wins the time trial. I expect a relatively close battle between Pogatra and Vingar. The thing is my default standard for these time trials is Pogatra takes time on Vingar, but I’ve got this feeling that Vingar has sometimes surprised me in flat time trials. Yeah. And also this year when you look at Vingar’s done two pretty good TTs this year. Do it’s been his best performance of the year. Two time trials. the Algav TT and the Dovet TT. But what’s really stark about those TTs is he didn’t take the time in the climbs. He was not average, but he was not the best on the climbs in those TTs. He got beaten by Mal Mater and Algav on the climb. Malal, he lost time to him. He got even beaten by Gregoire on that climb. The Doofan TT on the hill also uh I seem to recall he wasn’t taking time. It’s the flat where he’s been really strong. Is that incorrect pacing? Is that a hilly TT pacing strategy? I don’t know, but he’s been fast on the flat. If we look at the equipment differences between the teams, we’ve had years where Vismo was dominating flatter time trial segments. We’ve had a year early last year, for example, maybe most of last year actually, UAE TT bike was very fast. In the flat time trials, we saw the entire team performing well. This year, I feel like the the battle between the top teams is relatively closer in the sense of equipment, but no, I think Visma has stepped up definitely compared to last year equipment wise. I think Renco would go faster on the other on other setups, some other setups. So, you’re saying the spec sucks? Is that what you’re saying? No, I’m just saying. Is that what we’re quoting here? I’m saying Remco goes so fast in TTS because he’s a unique one of one time trialist who can put out a shitload of power in an insane position. Yeah. for over long durations in flat TTS. So, it’s not necessarily that he has the best setup either. Um, you reckon UAE will be wearing their AI helmets tomorrow? Oh, so but that was not the actual helmet wasn’t AI. The the design of it some graphic arch thingy on the on the side. Bro, Matchin loves Matchin loves the AI generated graphics. His favorite one, his favorite one is like the team and it’s like a it’s like a big red background like there’s fire in the back. He’s got the team in front and then he’s like on top like the patron. It’s like that’s his favorite one before a race. I I’m when I saw the AI designed helmet is the way they they presented on social media. I was like just pay a [ __ ] artist to draw it. Like I I I know that we’ve we’ve had some industry changes over the last couple of decades in in the world of I think the helmet I think the helmet looks all right to be honest. I I don’t like it and I don’t like it even more because it’s made by Yeah, but some human okayed their jersey design. I don’t know. Like there was no one in the room that said to them, “Guys, maybe we shouldn’t have a jersey with literal oil stains on it.” Like no one was no one in the whole process of that jersey with the tours. Like is no one no one seeing this? Yeah, but it shouldn’t. We are we’re pointing at the the [ __ ] jersey design at the exceptions to be fair. Half the jersey. The group one looks beautiful. I like the group one. Serotiz style. The blue and the red. A because they’ve gone anti-gradient. They have a they have an off color sleeve. And I also really like the Red Bull. We’re supposed to be against AI. We will be replaced in a few years. Yeah, maybe the Red Bull kit. I really like the blue. The blue shorts pop up. They really pop with the white jersey. Total five years ago. Yeah, a little bit. I really like the Red Bull one. Um, I’ve lost my train of thought. So, Remco wins the TT tomorrow. I think I’m looking at the Dolphin GC standings. That’s not particularly helpful. What GC changes do you expect? Well, the gaps I I mentioned are Enco taking 40ish seconds on Pogatra and Ving. They could go either way. Could be 10 20 seconds either way. On paper, I would say Pogacher above Vingar, but despite not counting the Dolphin time trial, it gives like a tiny idea in your head of like, ah, are we sure he’s going to beat Ving in this time trial? He should based on his last four years of performance in time trials, but we can’t underrate Yonas in a flat time trial either, but I’m going to put the Remco Bug Yonas only. He’s going to get smoked. Um, he’s going to lose a shitload of time. Almeid is going to do a really really good TT. He’s going to move himself into fourth. Uh Schelmo will do okay. Johannes will lose a shitload of time. Roglitch will be looking to move himself probably he’s probably in fifth or no not fifth but Rogish is firmly back in the top 10 tomorrow. If he’s not then you should panic cuz he should be killing only in this TT. Yep. Um that is true. Gaul is going to lose more time. Santi looks looked off today is the stage that should shoot him suit him. Lipovitz did a good TT in the doofen. I don’t know if he was just positioning or what or having to fetch his own bid on every day. So maybe but I don’t see any order change between Pagacha, Vingard, Jurgensen, Almeida. Mhm. I just see Ramco slotting himself in there somewhere. And if it’s Yeah, that’s what I see. I think so, too. Vanderpool, does he does he try, Benji? I think he has to. I think well if he tries tomorrow he will take energy away of a potential stage one on stage six and seven which is possible six from the rakeway seven from the pelaton and he’s not getting yellow back so I would I would bin it I would I would bin yellow and call ride it in tomorrow calmly [ __ ] respecting the jersey stage six go in the breakaway win from the breakaway with a teammate that controls it for you stage seven win on Mrani from the pelon Can’t he do a try in the TT tomorrow, lose yellow, be on 25, 30 seconds, do it again and then just go in the break on stage six, win and take yellow, even if he loses a minute. Yeah. So, I think he will try tomorrow. Um, a little bit. Yeah. Not too much. I love TTS. I love TTS. I’ll say it. I I love them. Especially as I’ I’ve had enough of these uh nervous stages. Today was hectic and I can’t wait to see a TT tomorrow where it’s more of a race of well today’s a race of truth but it’s just a different race. I’ve got a controversial topic to talk about. Very controversial. Coffus has had some bikes stolen uh I think about a week and a half ago. I think Vaser was pretty open about it. They also found some of them back. Some of the bikes have been returned or were found in a forest near their hotel. Don’t know which stupid burglar robs bikes and then throws it into a forest. Don’t know which stupid burglar chooses to steal look bikes from coffidus instead of a specialized or something. That’s also a a question I have. The the burglars are not very up to date with the bike brands in my opinion. That being said, it is good that they got their bikes, man. I’m glad that happened. But if they don’t, what would they be riding? Oh, they the manufacturer would sort it out. But come on, just think about it for a second. They would. It’s a tour to France. It’s a French team. I think uh yeah, Koffus have had a tough couple of days with the cockard fur yesterday. I’m glad they got the bikes returned and uh thanks for listening as always. We won’t have a watch along for the time trial tomorrow. Uh rest my voice a little bit and then we’ll probably be back for stage six depending on whether it’s Yeah, we’ll be back for stage six. Hope you enjoy the recap and we’ll see you uh in the next one. Chowo chow chow.