“I was terrified to speak to 300 kids… but then one girl told me something that broke me.”
Discover the powerful life story of Phil Pierce, a man who turned his past struggles into a catalyst for positive change. From early family challenges, navigating school difficulties, and overcoming addiction and incarceration, Phil’s journey emphasizes resilience, self-awareness, and the importance of giving back. Learn how his experiences led to founding a successful community initiative and how he’s dedicated his life to helping others through lived experience. This inspiring story highlights mental health, addiction recovery, personal growth, and community impact, offering valuable lessons for anyone seeking transformation.
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Welcome back to YouTube channel. Um,Â
and today um, again somebody that I’ve wanted to know I know I already know you
or bits of you but I wanted to know about you just you you kind of I’m intrigued by by you asÂ
a person. Okay. And when we go when we go through it, obviously I’ll explain myself.
Yeah. Yeah. So, obviously you’ve watchedÂ
behind the scenes before, so you know that I’ve got a question for you.
Yes. And you’ll know what the question is. Yes. It’s the only question I’veÂ
got. That’s all you know. Yes.
And you do know that you can  ask me a question at the end.
Yes. So, that’s all you know. Yeah.
Right. Okay. So, not going to go into too much detail, but you know what theÂ
question is. So again, most lives it would be disrespectful or the way it’s said can beÂ
interpreted as disrespectful, but it’s not. So it’s just who are you?
When you asked me to come on, I’ve been trying to figure out like what what that means. Um
and I think I think the answer is different like every two, three years of your life in it.
Yeah. You know, if we did this every 3 years,Â
I think I’d have a different answer. And I used to do inline skating when I wasÂ
little. And there was a film that we used to  watch called Brink. It’s like a Disney film. Okay.
And in it, the kid’s talking to his dad and his dad just got sacked and he’s talking to him aboutÂ
it. And he said, um, and it’s one of those like teacher moments about don’t forget who youÂ
are as a person cuz he was like, I always  used to introduce myself as, “Hi, I’m whateverÂ
his name was, Dave Brinker. I’m the foreman.” He always added his job title to his name so thatÂ
people would look up to or respect him. And I and it made me like the last two years definitely theÂ
last two years it’s made me realize that I’m like that like I’ve always been like um you know ifÂ
I’ll say I’ll introduce myself with something that I think is impressive or like before I wentÂ
to prison it was more about sort of reputation. When I came home from prison, it was moreÂ
about the fact that, oh, I’m in recovery  and I don’t drink. And then it was like, oh,Â
Phil, I’m the director of life experience. And it’s always come with this attachmentÂ
that’s like, oh, this is this is who I am. You got more to prove to prove yourself.
I never I never I never really thought about or considered the fact that I’d doÂ
it until the last couple of years where my  work has sort of like moved away a little bitÂ
from life experience. Like, it’s always there. But will just we’re going to get into
Yeah. Yeah. So, I’m not just the director  of life experience anymore. And especially inÂ
the last few months, I’ve been having lots of conversations about like men in general and howÂ
we are. And you know, I think I think the answer to the question is like I’m I’m a good man likeÂ
these days. And I have to add that bit cuz like I I didn’t used to be. And I think all the stuffÂ
that happened in the past I’ve tried to flip. So, you know, all the sort of selfish reasons whyÂ
I used to do stuff now. I’m the opposite. And  I try to I try to make sure I’m the opposite.Â
And I’m doing things for the opposite reasons. It’s not about personal gain. You know,Â
it’s not it’s not about any of that stuff,  the money making. Like, I hate money. And that’sÂ
a big conversation as well. Like, I you know, you know what I will So, you’reÂ
just filthier, a good person. I’m just a I’m a I try to be a good person.Â
cuz what I will say is there’s a couple of things that I do know of you and one you’ve justÂ
said I know not obviously not factually but from what I know of you you’re not money orientatedÂ
I know that the money thing is not and again a lot of what I don’t know if you still doÂ
it but I know there used to be a time where cuz I don’t know if you still eat at these umÂ
at this place so I’m talking about McDonald’s although all the fast all the fast joints areÂ
just as good but it used to be McDonald’s and IÂ Â remember you used to get you food and you usedÂ
to pay for the person that was behind you. Is that right? Is that something you still do now?
It’s something I do. So that but it’s something  I’ve been doing for over 3 years.
Yeah. But not for recognition. No one no oneÂ
knows. Like obviously now people do cuz you said it but it’s just like a
but that comes down to the person  of saying you are a genuine person like
you. It’s not something you brag. It’s just something that I know that I picked upÂ
through spending time with you. Um I don’t know how it came up, but I remember you justÂ
you remember saying something like, “Oh yeah, it might have either been a running joke.” LikeÂ
you pay for someone’s meal, they end up ordering for five people in car or something. You’ve goneÂ
cost me a few quid that. But I know for a period of time, you’d always pay for the person.
Yes, I still do it. Like say I’ve been  doing it for over three years now. Um, andÂ
the the day I got released from prison, I was walking through town with my bag and thereÂ
was some um I don’t know which religion it was, but they were promoting um a pamphlet of some sortÂ
stood in leads with the metal frame and all the little things in it. Um, and I don’t know what itÂ
was, but I walked past him and it was cold. It was um mid December when I when I came home. Oh,Â
either the end of November, start of December.  It was just before my um birthday. And um I IÂ
walked back past them, went into a cafe or like a sandwich shop, paid for free hot drinks, took theÂ
receipt. I said to him, “I don’t know what drinks  I want. Just charge me for the most expensiveÂ
drinks, three of them. I’ll take the receipt to the people who it’s for, and then they can justÂ
come in and choose a drink.” And this was the day  you got released. That was the day I got released.Â
And again, I don’t I don’t know what sort of the reasons for it were. Like I said, I was justÂ
walking through town and but in prison I I started  going back to like the chapel and spending timeÂ
because I’m not I’m not religious. I was brought up Catholic, but I don’t go to church. I don’tÂ
even know if I believe in God because of science, you know? Like I’d like to think that thereÂ
is something when I go to my mate’s grave,  I talk out loud as if he can hear me,
but I don’t believe in ghosts. I don’t Do you know what I mean? I mean, I’m just in this sort of likeÂ
mixed up. I don’t quite know where I’m at with all  that stuff, but not a religious person. Um, and itÂ
would just like NA is very much about, and again, it’s not religion, but they use the word God,
and it’s about having a higher power, whatever  that is. It could be your football team, it couldÂ
be your parents, but something that like in my head, it’s would I still do it if that person wasÂ
with me? So, it helps me make better choices, but they push it as sort of a religious thing. Um, so
I like that I started going back to chapel to try and figureÂ
out because certain steps require certain things to try and work out in my head where I’m atÂ
with it and all it did was confirm that I’m  not really a religious person. I think my momÂ
put us in those schools just to get cuz they’re the better schools. So we got christenedÂ
to go to Catholic schools basically. Um, okay.
So yeah, so like I say, I was just walking past and it might have been somethingÂ
that connects to that. It might have been that  part of giving back, but I was just walkingÂ
through, saw the three of them stood there, and they looked cold, so I was just like, I’mÂ
just gonna get something. Just do something. Yeah. Okay. So, let’s take it back now. So, cuzÂ
we we to be to be fair, the people that do watch your YouTube channel, none of it is aboutÂ
glorifying anything. So, again, just to be clear, there’s no there’s no questions that I’ve said orÂ
there’s nothing where you’ve said to me or don’t  ask me anything about that. So there’s all that
but one thing so I would have never covered it like for me person I would haveÂ
never said that you’d been in prison you know what I mean I wouldÂ
have done you said that but I’m going to go back in time nowÂ
cuz obviously you you mentioned parents so talk to me about grow so let’s go fromÂ
obviously you won’t remember being born so well let’s go from
earliest memories earliest memories to  then primary school to the end of primary schoolÂ
so how was the family dynamics how was that So, primary school, I’ve got two older sisters.Â
One’s a year and a half older. So, in school, she was two school years above me.
Okay. Um, and I was convinced as an adult now andÂ
going to prison and speaking to a drug worker, we had a lot of conversations about howÂ
my head works. So, I think differently. She’s very similar to how my head works.Â
So, I’ve never had the diagnosis of anything because I found out I’m in prison forÂ
my 30th birthday. So, I’m that old. I’m at that age where
my head has worked against me for a long time for 30 years of my life. AndÂ
I’ve never understood why. But now I figured out a way to make it work in my favor. I don’t need aÂ
diagnosis. It’s not going to help me in any way.  So, I’m not interested. So, I’m not going toÂ
say I have ADHD. I’m not going to say I have autism because I don’t know. All I know is that
I’m telling you. I’m telling you, you have like Yeah.
It takes one to see  one. I’m telling you. And not like you’ve said itÂ
to me anyway. You’ve got to be definitely got it. You know what I mean? So, I’m just paying the
There’s so many like people send me Tik Tok  all talk time and be like, “Does this soundÂ
familiar?” I’m just like, “Yeah, but it don’t mean anything.” So, I’m not I’m not ashamed of it.Â
There’s just no there’s no diagnosis. There’s no  100% tick that says, “Yes, this is what it is.”Â
Again, I’m not interested because I’ve worked out how my head works and how to make it a positiveÂ
or an advantage in some cir um circumstances. But when I was young, like I’d always get intoÂ
trouble and in school, I just didn’t really I I don’t learn the same way. If you sit and talkÂ
at me, I’m not going to take information in. But I didn’t know that at the time. So, IÂ
was getting into trouble. And in year six, I only thought about this the other day cuz IÂ
were talking to someone about their classes,  their children’s classes are changing andÂ
I I remembered that in year six I didn’t get on with my teacher so much because she wasÂ
strict because she’s trying to get used to high  school and I was disruptive. So I moved backÂ
down to year five because I was meant to be with her for two years. So I moved down a yearÂ
because we didn’t get on and then just did one last year with her before I went to high school.Â
So, my education moved back a year because they didn’t see that I just don’t learn that way.
At home, I used to constantly go through the photo albums because I thought I was adopted.
It’s it’s madness, but I didn’t feel like IÂ Â fitted in because both my sisters were wellÂ
behaved and I was the one who always got into Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and it justÂ
I I felt out of place and I always like I’d look through and loads of pictures of meÂ
as a baby are missing because I’d go through  them and take them out and I don’t knowÂ
what I ever did with them. Um, but yeah, you sure you took them?
Yeah, I’m joking. See,  I can’t help it. Again, we had the conversationÂ
the other day on phone. I were like, I don’t I know I’m not I should be saying this, but I’mÂ
just going to say it anyway and then I prefer it and then leave it. Um, so primary school,Â
so you come back a year, but then you go back and you automatically go into year seven.
I did I did a year in year six with that teacher. Yeah.
And then moved to high school. Went to high school.
Yeah. So I’m guessing once you go into high school,Â
have you carried that through with you? Yeah. I mean, it was the same like meÂ
and my RE teacher never got on. Um,  he used to throw me out at the start of lesson,Â
but the class was right next to the head teacher, so I always used to get seen stood outsideÂ
his class. Um, I if I enjoy something, I can I can focus, but if if I’ve got no interestÂ
in it, I find it really hard to look like I’m So, what did you what did you whatÂ
was your focus in high school then? Um, sport.
Um, sport was a big one. Um, like problem solving, so puzzles. So, certain things in science, certainÂ
things in math’s, but not math’s and not science because you used to do it used to be how do youÂ
used to write up in science? You used you and then  it’ be method conclusion.
Yeah. Like for me that like math’s for me as well. Yeah.
So math’s loved math’s. Loved math’s.
Yeah. And sciences as well.  But also history. History was a big thing for me.
Do you know I remember always drawing like I loved art. Drawing Roman soldiers. M
so that part of like history um I think I feel like when you’re mixing thingsÂ
so if I don’t enjoy math’s but you make it a game I’m going to enjoy math’s like um EnglishÂ
instead of doing spelling if you did anagrams you’d be love an anagram over so mine was so whatÂ
I would do is I do it in all lessons I don’t know why I did it but it just works and I continue toÂ
do it now so if it was writing English I would write whatever they were telling us toÂ
write, but then there would have to be  key words that I’d have to make sure stoodÂ
out to me for me to remember that sentence. Right. Okay.
So, what I would do then is the key word I would go over it and go over itÂ
and go so it became embedded and it was bold. Yeah. That would catch me eye. The same way if IÂ
did methods or then what I would do is if there  was things like that I would
um capital letters, right? So if I write sometimes I will write normalÂ
and then every so often you’ll find a word that’s  in capitals and then gone over and gone overÂ
and gone over. So that’s how my brain would work. So then I go right okay
I know to figure that. So I’m guessing now if we’re talkingÂ
secondary you left with no GCSEs. I got um a couple of C’s and then the restÂ
were worse. So, I got a U in technology because I finished the exam and then put onÂ
some music and I was sat with my headphones  in because I can’t do nothing. So, you’re meantÂ
to sit and wait till the end of the exam. So, I’m sort of sat I’m fidgeting. I’m like, I’mÂ
going to start distracting people. So, I just  put my headphones in. I was like they took the theÂ
what it was a Walkman. They took that off me and um they said there could have been answers onÂ
the tape. I was like for a technology exam. So,  I got I got a U because I’ I’d put music onÂ
tape. didn’t think about listening to the tape. Well, I don’t even know whatÂ
music would have been on that banana. Not that long ago.
Um, okay. So, leave school. Yeah.
GCSEs two, three. Yep.
Um, where do we go? Where we going? So, mom tells me that I need some sortÂ
of trade. So, I get um an apprentice as a printer in Pudsey. Um, so I’m so sorry.Â
Did you know that your home invar was it? So it’s just two sisters and just mom.
No, mom and dad. Dad was long-distance  lorry driver. So he was he used to goÂ
to work Monday and come back Friday. Okay. Right. Okay.
Um I’m sure that’s what used to happen.  I don’t know how long a disciplinarian then.
Yeah. Yeah. But it was like a oh when your dad gets home it were that sort of like ifÂ
dad has to get involved it’s gone too far. Okay.
It’s that sort of um so your mom tells you you got to get a trade.
Yeah. So I go into printing. Where you from originally?
Beeston. So this is from Yeah. So I’m cycling a BMX from Beeston to Pudsey
Monday to Friday. Um office hours like 9 93 941 £157 an hour £60 a week
YTF. Yeah. Back then it was trading scheme. Yeah.Â
Yeah. Yeah. Um so yeah it would just it was just a really low paid apprenticeship.Â
Um and then my boss so I turned 17, didn’t get a pay rise. been there a year,Â
didn’t get a pay rise, and I would just sat  on the end of machines like they used to do, ifÂ
you ever watch like Champions League interviews, all the little stickers in the background. WeÂ
used to make them, but it was screen printing,  so it was very like hands-on pressure on a spongeÂ
uh a squeegee blade, pushing ink through a canvas, and then each each color had a different bitÂ
embedded. So then it layers up to make an actual like color. Do you know what I mean?
Um, but I didn’t get taught any of that. IÂ Â was just sat at the end and as it comes throughÂ
you straighten out and if you see that they’re slightly off, you need to tell the printer cuzÂ
the the the stencil’s moved. So then they need  to reset it and go again. And I’m just like itÂ
just feels like a waste of time. Um and then I can’t remember what happened. Something somethingÂ
had happened. Um like it would have been my fault  whatever it was that happened and my boss gotÂ
me by like my my neck up against the wall and I was just like this is it for me. I’m done. So IÂ
went and worked at White Rose Center in a clothes  shop with my sister when I was 17. And then asÂ
soon as I turned 18, the security kept poaching me and like why don’t you come do this? Um cuz IÂ
was quite tall. Like I said, I used to do a bit of boxing when I was little and stuff. And um soÂ
soon as soon as I turned 18, applied for a job, got that job, started doing security and that ledÂ
on to like working on doors and stuff like that. Okay. I didn’t know you didÂ
doors. Yeah, you did door work. Yeah, a couple of my uncles did it. Um,Â
one of them was sort of their doorman  for years at like Yates’s and um differentÂ
places. Um, and then it were cockpit. Wow. Yeah. Did
tunnels. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I worked on thereÂ
for about a year. Did little bits. You had a life then, didn’t let’s be honest.
There weren’t any other clubs other than like Faversham that were like it. So if you gotÂ
banned from there, I mean there was there  was some kickoffs but who knows where like asÂ
soon as you stop it, everyone stops because they don’t want to get banned.
Most of my students as well  was a lot of them were students. Yeah.
Okay. So Dorman, so then obviously we’ve spoke about well you’ve spoke about going to prison.
Um so then you come out of prison. So I before that soÂ
working on doors in leads go on a night out in Wy um am I 20 how old am I 20 I think I’m 20 atÂ
the time so this is while I’m working on doors um night out in wakey go to subway after waitingÂ
in line in subway girls stood in front of me we’re sort of laughing and joking about these prettyÂ
boys who stood up front um swap numbers meet up we’re together for about a year 6 months intoÂ
that relationship ship. We’re at her house getting ready to go out for Valentine’s Day. She justÂ
racked a line of coke up in front of me and I’m  just like, “What the?”
Okay. So, I’ve grown up around it. Never had what toÂ
do with it. Sport was too important to me for  for me to get involved in any of that stuff. UmÂ
cuz we missed a bit actually. So, in my teens, I jumped off a motorbike showing off and um I hadÂ
my full kit on so I had my boots on. I was late for a game against mates. So I get on a motocrossÂ
bike. One of the lads picks me up on this stolen motocross bike and I’m like when we get there asÂ
we’re coming they’re all waiting to kick off. So  I’m like clown go to middle of pitch and theÂ
idea was as we get to middle of pitch I jump off like taa I’ve arrived. Um the bike’s goingÂ
quicker than I thought. As soon as I land my stood sticking. My knee twists and the insideÂ
of my knee just explodes. So I didn’t tear my  ACL. It disintegrated. It just it gone. ThereÂ
were nothing. So they had to drill diagonally through my knee. take some tendons, threadÂ
them through as like a a makeshift ACL. So, it works on a daily basis, but not at like aÂ
a sprint or like a stopping very quickly or so all the sport I ever did, that was it. ThenÂ
I was done. Um, so then fast forward a couple of years to being 20. I’m kicking off with herÂ
about the fact that she’s like just doing drugs like just just like it’s normal. Do you know whatÂ
I mean? and she was a dancer in a nightclub in Wy and you and all the six months youÂ
didn’t know anything about it right I don’t see her very often soon as so she says toÂ
me at the end of this argument how can you be so against it if you’ve never tried it now like I’veÂ
said I’m working on the doors in less I’m not a  vulnerable person I’m not easily influenced likeÂ
I’m a grown ass man but she says that to me and I’m like oh well because of football and boxingÂ
and skating and I’m like nope nope nope nope all the things that I had that stopped me fromÂ
doing it were gone. So then I’m just like,  well actually, how can I be so against it ifÂ
I’ve never tried it? So then obviously I try it and then I realize that all the times when I wantÂ
seeing her, she’s at a mate’s house infield doing mushrooms and ketamine and um this crazy ItalianÂ
chef in Hair Hills who does like GB and Coke and and so then all of a sudden I’m like, “Oh, so nowÂ
I’m being invited this day to go to this place.” So then it just sort of that first month was justÂ
chaotic because like soon as I tried coke for the first time it was like oh what about this andÂ
what about this and what about this? So all  the drugs I ever did I tried in that first monthÂ
at like different people’s houses or parties or because then you was known for
Yeah. Cuz I’ I’ve tried it now. Yeah.  So but it was that thing of her trying to keep meÂ
away from it and then as soon as I tried it was like well I don’t need to protect you from it now.Â
You can come and you can come and be involved.  So you’re still working at this time?
You’re still doing the dogs. So you’re earning money.
Oh yeah. And then your money’s going on the drugs. Yes.Â
But I was getting it. Like I said, I’ve grown up around it. So there’s people from my childhoodÂ
who as soon as I went to them, they were like,  “Oh, just have this and just give me
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I’d get uh about five or six gram ofÂ
coke for 100 quid, right? Literally like kilo cost price. And then we’d go to wake. HerÂ
mates would buy two of them for 50 quid each. So, we’ve just got three for free.
Three or four for free. So,  instead of them thinking, “Oh, we’ll justÂ
have them four.” If they wanted four, we would just keep two. We’d buy two lots.
So, now we’ve got six, seven, eight free  rather than just keeping two for free and makingÂ
100 quid. The spiral starts now, doesn’t it? So, now it’s it’s about this beingÂ
free, not about making money. Yeah.
Um and then it just it just snowballs.
Yeah. Massively. Okay. So, is that where where you end up in prison then?
Yeah. 2008 first time. So, I’d have been 20 25. Um, but it were it were one of those whereÂ
like everyone said, “Oh, pretend you’re an addict and that you were you were in debtÂ
and people made you keep it at your house, but they know where you live, soÂ
you can’t possibly say who it was.” So, I did the whole I’m sure 99% of theÂ
people who get caught say the exact same  story as the police are listening toÂ
it. They’re just like this [Â __Â ] again. And for them to try and disprove what you’reÂ
saying because that’s what they do. Yeah. Yeah. Um so the the judge gave me a 9 monthÂ
sentence and said this is enough time for whoever it is to forget about you.
Okay. So it’ll get you away from thoseÂ
people and hopefully you can come out and your life will change and blahÂ
blah blah. So I was like all right cool. Cuz obviously your first timeÂ
it’s your first time in prison. Yeah. So 9 month. So obviously you only do halfÂ
a sentence and then I got tagged. So I did 2 months and a week in prison, two months andÂ
a week on tag, 4 and a half month on license. Did you go back to work?
I tried moving to my aunties in Burlington. Um and looking back now a lot of things make sense. ButÂ
at the time it didn’t. So I moved to Bridlington,  but all I tried to do was escape. I didn’tÂ
deal with like the way my head was working. So the second time in prison that spoke aÂ
lot about the addict brain which I didn’t  know about that time because nothing to do withÂ
drugs was addressed while I was in prison. Um so I’ve come out and I’m just thinking like if I’mÂ
not around it I won’t think about it. So I moved to my aunties in Bridlington and I signed up forÂ
college. Um I can’t remember what I was wanting to  do but I signed up for summer and then I came backÂ
one weekend for someone’s birthday. Got absolutely off my head and took a load of stuff back toÂ
Bridlington. So now I’m sat in Bridlington away  from everybody still doing it. What’s the pointÂ
in this? So I moved back to leads. Um and it got it it got bad then in the sense of like we weren’tÂ
just selling coke. It were you know one of one of lads who you might actually know is he got 33 yearÂ
sentence in 2008. So he’s he’s not been about for a while. Um but he he’d be like oh I’ve got I’veÂ
got like a kilo k here. Do you want to try and get rid of this? Just give me like a 10 or a gram.Â
So we’re like, yeah. So instead, like we’d sell it for 20 quid a gram, but again, every time we soldÂ
one gram, we’d get one for free. Yeah. So it’s not it’s not actually a financial gain, is it?
No, it’s just free drugs. Part of life. That  that feeling of like walking into a house partyÂ
and being able to just tip a load out and just be like, “Oh yeah, crack on.”
So we go to prison this second time. So we go to prison. HowÂ
long is that one for? 40 months for zero. Okay. So,
and that were I had five gram of coke on me, but they had six months worth for deleted textÂ
messages of like pickups and drop offs and Okay.
stuff like that. So, so you get your 14 month sentence.
Yeah. Is this where you start your rehabilitation now?Â
Is that where the realization of going, listen, I had a chance last time?
No. I’ve been given another sentence
eventually, but not not in the beginning. No. Oh, no. But I’m saying thatÂ
sentence itself is where you change. I went to prison the second time not knowingÂ
I had an issue. I didn’t think drugs were a problem because I always had coke. I never wentÂ
without it. So I never had that feeling of like  needing. Yeah. Um but I was literally like allÂ
day every day from waking up to passing out on a night I was doing coke every 15 20 minutes. AtÂ
work I used to work in a suit in lead city center. I’d be in a stairwell or a toilet just having keysÂ
constantly. Um it would just and it would I don’t even know if it were like you feel it, you don’tÂ
feel it anymore. It’s more like the routine or do you know what I mean? Um so I go to prison
as a norm, don’t it really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s justÂ
part of my routine now. So I go to prison not not thinking I’ve got anÂ
issue. Um and then I’m in Armley for two weeks. So I meet everyone on the like um the inductionÂ
wing and then you all move on to your wing and then you move out. So two weeks after I got there,Â
I moved out to um Wealstun, did six month in Wealstun and then got cat D, moved out to um um
it’s either going to be Hatfield or Sudbury. No, I was going to say Sudbury, but that wasÂ
um that was the first time I went to Sudbury. Okay.
This one was um it’s in Preston and I can’t Kirkham. So yeah, so I move out to um KirkhamÂ
and when you get there cuz it’s an open prison,  you have to go around and register at like theÂ
education and the library and all the rest of it. So I library and I hear one of the guys fromÂ
Leeds. So I go and I chat to him and he’s like,  “Oh, pretend you’re an addict.” And they’llÂ
put you on recovery wing. They called it the Greens. It was just two port cabins on top of eachÂ
other. You get your own room. Um wooden frame bed,  which sounds mad, but like you know thoseÂ
hospital metal frames. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um and it’s got like a wet room so you’ve got aÂ
shower in your room. I was just like, “Yeah, bit like Kirk Leon.”
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I’ve tried to go to Kirklevington, you know, they wereÂ
saying that that’s the best cat in the country.  And when I got to reception at Wealstun, thereÂ
was an office there called Mr. Brown. Um, and he’d been cool with me every time I’d seen him. Like,Â
I got a PS2 sent in, so it was in my property, so I didn’t have to pay 300 quid from thatÂ
catalog. And then I was sort of like, “Oh, can  I?” And he was like, he’s sort of like, I think heÂ
knew, but he was like, “Yeah, just take it.” So I managed to con a PS2 into and keep it as property.
Um so it was always sound with me and then when I was trying to when when I went out to go to KirkÂ
Kurt Levington they kept saying Kirkham and all I heard from Kirkham was it’s it’s a terribleÂ
prison. There’s always space there because no  one wants to be there. So I was like ah no I’mÂ
all right. I’ll go back. And he said well you can either go to Kirkham and be on home leavesÂ
in a few months or you can go back to your pad and wait six months to get to Kurt Lev. AndÂ
I’m just like, “All right, fair enough. I’ll  go to Kirkham.” I go to Kirkham, get put on greensÂ
because I pretend I’m an addict. And I meet this woman called Barbara who’s a drug
pretending. Well, at that time I am. Yeah. Yeah. So I’mÂ
I’m I’m bagging it to get the good room. So register with the recovery people. There’sÂ
a woman called Barbara who I have to have these  meetings with. And she’s like this I won’t sayÂ
number but she’s like this older like white woman like big hair you know how you’d expect likeÂ
you know the women that you see in No I’m not  even going to say that she’s just ace like rightÂ
she’s she’s ace never been an addict she can sit and drink wine on a night whatever she wants andÂ
I’ve always had a thing of like how do you know  but she knew um so I have to go to an NA meetingÂ
go to an NA meeting and they’re reading all these cards and I’m just like and And then at the endÂ
they all stand up and hold hands and say this prayer and I was and then they start hugging. SoÂ
I’m just like ah no this ain’t for me. So I went  and I said oh I lied like I’m I don’t need to beÂ
on it. I lied about you know being an addict. I just wanted the nice room blah blah blah. So sheÂ
sits me down cuz we had an appointment. She like well it’s an hour long so like you might asÂ
well just tell me about your life before you  came. So I’m just chatting away. And um she sheÂ
literally just went are you [ __ ] kidding me? Um, she went, “Listen to what you’re saying.”Â
Because I’d normalized my lifestyle. Yeah.
I’ that was just normal. Other people around me did the same thing. They were doingÂ
coke all day every day. It wasn’t It wasn’t like  stand outish has been weird. It was just normal.
Um, so she was like, “I bet when you was a kid you used to do this. I bet you I bet you used toÂ
do this. I bet you used to do this.” I was like,  “Yeah, how do you know?” And she called itÂ
the addict brain. So then that made me sort of realize a lot of the things that have happenedÂ
in my life and like when I was young and the way IÂ Â think differently and all that sort of stuff justÂ
started to make sense. So then I chose to go back to NA meetings cuz I was like this is the thingÂ
that I need to do and started doing all the work  around it like going back to chapel and trying toÂ
figure out what that means for me and stuff. Um is that is that the oneÂ
where they got the 12 steps? 12 steps. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
And you used to get a key ring, didn’t you? Yeah. As you’re going through. But then yeah, theÂ
good thing that I liked about it cuz I was when IÂ Â was away at another place, they did it there. AndÂ
what you do is you actually go back and you help the others as well, don’t you?
So you’re helping them. Once you get to a certainÂ
level, you’re then helping you sponsor people. You that’s people.
Um, and it were it’s exactly what I needed at theÂ
time because I never I never saw the sort of like how my actions affected other people. So,Â
when I first went to prison, my sister sent me a letter and it was like, “I just need you to knowÂ
that like when as soon as we got home from court, my mom went to bed and she cried in bed for xÂ
amount of days.” It was a few days before her  birthday. Um, and this happened and when the houseÂ
got raided, blah blah blah. And I was just like, “Whoa, whoa, whoa. What? Why? Why you I’m theÂ
one that’s in prison and you’re sending me  letters like this. I’m the victim. You’re all justÂ
getting on with your life like everything’s fine, you know? I’m the one that’s I’m I’m I’m It’sÂ
that ripple effect though, is it?” Yeah. So, completely oblivious to like everything thatÂ
happens outside of court because you just get taken out the back down the stairs in the cell.Â
Your world’s ending. You think everyone’s just  cracking on like it never happened. Um, and thenÂ
so so far into that journey of like 12 steps. Um, I tell Barbara about this and she says, “Ask herÂ
to write that letter again and then I want you  to get the letter and read it out to the group.”Â
So, I messaged my sister. So, I’m just like, “Oh, you know that you know that letter you sent?”Â
So, she sent me it and like when when the house  got raided, I’m locked up in a cell. Um, my momÂ
and dad are in different rooms. My dad’s having a panic attack in one room. My mom can’t go inÂ
because they’re not allowed to communicate. Plane closed. Police go upstairs. My sister and herÂ
husband had just moved back in to save up for a  mortgage. My sister’s husband’s training to beÂ
a teacher. They just go into the bedroom. So, they think the house is getting robbed. They thinkÂ
that it’s robbers because no one announced as  police. So just these men have just come bargingÂ
into her room. Um and then they said if they would have found drugs in any part of the house,Â
everyone would have had to have been arrested,  which means he would never have been able toÂ
become a teacher. So even that one example, um like there were loads, this letterÂ
was just full of like when this happened,  this is what it were like for us sort of thing.
It’s all about accountability after that. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Wow. So you come home. Yeah. What we what we decided to do with our life though?
Um come back home 2017 14 2014. Yeah. So I went just beforeÂ
summer 2013 and came home just before  Christmas 2014. So I did a year and a half umÂ
got tagged for a month and then obviously have to do the same again on license.
So you’re back at your mom’s back to my mom’s um on probation startÂ
volunteering. I said to one of the drug workers in the prison, um, a guy called Matt, and he was theÂ
first ex- prisoner to get keys for a prison. So, he worked in there on the recovery side afterÂ
being a prisoner. And I said to him, like, after after everything I’ve learned, after everythingÂ
that’s like starting to make sense, I want to try  and do something to help other people because IÂ
had no clue. I I thought I was making all these decisions consciously. Didn’t know I had an issueÂ
there. Didn’t think there was any problems. This  is just me and my life and blah blah blah. And heÂ
said to me, “Oh, it’s just a phase everyone goes through. You’ll get over it.” And something in meÂ
didn’t sit right because my biggest motivator is telling me I can’t do something.
You think that’s what you were  doing though? You think he was?
Don’t know. I don’t think he was  purposely trying to motivate me. I think he wasÂ
just fed up of hearing people say the same thing. So,
cuz I’ll take  you back. So when I first met you, you we wasÂ
doing the things in the schools and you used to donate. You said get the people to come with you.Â
Is that right? And then so you was getting people to come out and then they they was paying you andÂ
you was paying the money to the the the place. Oh yeah. So like I’d have relationships withÂ
like if we’re working in Wii or Cass it was um reflections.
That’s true. It’s Halifax Calderdale. It was alpha. So they’dÂ
send me a couple of lads to talk in schools and then whatever I got paid went to that organizationÂ
so they could take them like go-karting or you know whatever they needed or
is that where it all started for  you? Is that where where you was giving back then?
Yeah, maybe. And I just think so I I volunteering for probation because of what he said. Um andÂ
someone at probation so my as far as work goes I I got told like one of my pals worked in aÂ
warehouse and he said you’re guaranteed a job. And in my head, um, I was just sort of like, I don’tÂ
want to just do something like that. I want to do something more because it feels like an easy wayÂ
out. I’ve been to prison. No one’s going to employ me. And I sort of want to break that stigma. So,Â
I went for a job with lead city council and in the interview, every question they asked, give me anÂ
example of a time. Well, when I was in Wealstun,  I worked in education and I did this, this, andÂ
this. Uh, when I was a prisoner in Wealstun, I worked in education. Duh. Give me an example.Â
Well, when I was a prisoner in um Kirkham, this I I worked here and I had to do this andÂ
you know this this shows teamwork or whatever  it was. I made every example the last year.
Yeah. Because they know I’ve been to prison cuz it’s on my application form. Now sometimesÂ
you’ll get an interview because people are nosy. Oh, I wonder what he’s like. He’s been toÂ
prison. Shall we No intentions of employing you, but it’s that opportunity to get somebody inÂ
who you’ll never get to sit and speak to. So now my story is attractive because it’s different.
So my examples are different. And I always say like I go back into prisons and talk to guysÂ
and say to them um you if prison has changed your life in a positive way, talk about it. If ifÂ
you’re drinking, smoking, gambling, and you get run over and you should die but you don’t, thatÂ
will give you a different outlook on life because it’s like you’ve had a second chance. Why am IÂ
throwing it away? What? What? what am I doing?  I need to do better. Whatever the reason, you’reÂ
going to talk about that in a positive way. It was a really horrible experience that happened, butÂ
the result of it is everything in your life is now going to be better because of it. So, if you if IÂ
talk about prison in the way that it was for me, that it’s changed my life for the better, it canÂ
only be a selling point. So where does live where does Phil Pierce, director of lived exper um
life experience come from? Um we it were volunteering for probation. A guyÂ
asked if they had anyone that would come and talk in a school. Um a guy called Mick Amos.Â
I’m still I’m working with him still. Yeah. Um and I went to meet him and he toldÂ
me what we were going to do and it was  um like a school assembly hall was likeÂ
bleached seat bleach is it called bleached seats? Like staggered seats get higher
and he said there’s about 300 kids and  I was like a no way. So what we had to do is heÂ
sat opposite me and all the kids are there and he’d asked me a question and I’d answer himÂ
loud enough for them to hear cuz I was like  there’s no way I’m doing this. Yeah. Um,Â
and it went really well. And afterwards, a couple of girls came up to me and one of themÂ
was like, “Oh, my dad’s in prison.” And I thought  he was going to die. Um, but I’m going to tell himÂ
now that you you’ve changed and that he can too. What year are we now?
This is like 2015 maybe. Okay.
And it just like So then there was two other people volunteering forÂ
probation. um lad called Paul who sadly passed away. Um and someone who I went to school with. UmÂ
so us three started meeting up and then there was other people on the course and we was like shallÂ
we just get a couple of people together and see  what we can do. Um and we was all sat in a cafe.Â
I think it was in Halifax somewhere and we came up with life experience. Um, and we came up with theÂ
logo with the jigsaw piece puzzles and um, and it started from that and then we just did it as likeÂ
a unofficial this is us sort of thing for 3 years and then we registered in 2017 as an officialÂ
community interest company and started applying  for funding and doing it properly rather thanÂ
just like school drop-ins and stuff like that. Yeah, cuz when I meet you it’s 2019. So we’veÂ
already been going officially a couple of years. You’ve been going a couple of years.
Yeah. and um quite daunting for me  for when I started cuz again you’reÂ
a little bit ahead of me when you’re talking about lived experience and using livedÂ
experience to then educate other people. M so you’re a little bit ahead of me but then whenÂ
I come I think maybe because of just how I am with the not no labels but I said it to you the otherÂ
day it was like there was an influx of people that came along at a certain time on it where
it actually made it fun to be around all these different people and you one of the peopleÂ
where it made it fun of not being part of the organization I was with but being part of yourÂ
own organization and going ah So, it does work because he’s done it and look what he’sÂ
doing now. And he’s actually in the same  room as me cuz he was doing work with aÂ
football club as well one at one time. Um, but then we were doing things togetherÂ
and then obviously it starts from there. So, there’s quite an influx. So, where doesÂ
the where does the giving back start? Does it start when you’re in Kirkham, part of theÂ
12 steps, or does it start from when you get  released and you you do that, you get themÂ
free drinks for the people in the street? I don’t have a clue. Um, I think I think it’s justÂ
a little bit of all of it in the sense of like a lot of the 12step work was about how horrible IÂ
used to be. So, but you don’t see it as that. Like I, for example, I’d take drugs to a house partyÂ
knowing that if I put the first one out for free, people would then buy it. Yeah.
So, it’s that it’s not even  just the act, it’s the mindset.
Yeah. There’s a mind. There’s a madness. So, you could be like, “Oh, sound put one out.” ButÂ
whether that’s nice or not, whether anyone bought  any after that or not, I went there with theÂ
intentions of conning people into buying off me. Um, and when you when you sit and start to sortÂ
of like understand how horrible you were and how take your responsibility in those situations,Â
it just sort of made me realize that that’s not how I was brought up. That was literallyÂ
from the time of taking drugs. It was like, what what’s in it for me? Um, and then
So, you know, you’re basically  peeling it all back and being good.
Yeah. Literally. Yeah. And it’s that thing of because I can genuinely state you areÂ
not money oriented. You are a person  where you go well you’ve done it whereÂ
you go listen this is what I’ve got. Anything I can help with you you canÂ
use it. But anything else if you need  it then yeah if I’ve got it you can haveÂ
it. And you you genuinely are that guy. Yeah I do. I hate money. I hate that we need it. IÂ
hate the sort of class system that comes with it. I hate like like you already know. I’ve had I’veÂ
had some jobs where they weren’t even jobs. Like I was getting paid a lot of money to do podcasts.
Yeah. But I did podcasts for a long time and I loved itÂ
and then they came and said it was literally like £1,000 an episode. Right. So
I remember two a month. I’m I’m laughing like I don’tÂ
need to do anything else. Didn’t plan, didn’t research, got somebody in, had a topicÂ
already. that person’s a either a professional or an experience like lived experienced personÂ
around that topic. Let’s just have a chat. And  then it were like I started questioning my introÂ
cuz obviously it’s me singing Craig David and then my voice changed to a chipmunk cuz itÂ
was just fun. And I started like I started  researching guests and I started trying to clueÂ
myself up on topics. But I think I think the the good thing about the original podcast was I’d askÂ
the dumb questions because I wouldn’t understand. So people watching would then get the answersÂ
that they were hoping for because if everyone knows what they’re talking about, the person whoÂ
doesn’t really understand the subject gets lost. Yeah. And like I think you’ve heardÂ
me say it before where I don’t mind being the idiot in Yeah. Yeah. Same. Yeah.Â
Yeah. Yeah. Someone has to be before you. Somebody has to be because again,Â
if you’ve got 10 people in a room and people are saying and start saying all theseÂ
words, there’s probably eight people in the room  that are going, “What’s he all about?” So I’ll putÂ
me hand up and go, “What does that mean?” because the other eight people are going thinking theÂ
same thing. But I don’t mind being the idiot cuz and again, but then I’m quiteÂ
rebellious that way because whatever word you’ve used becauseÂ
you use that word around me,  but now you’ve explained what the word means,Â
I then refuse to use the word that you did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Do you know what IÂ Â mean? So what I’ll do is cuz I know the meaningÂ
of the word, I’ll find the other meaning that can come from me
and use that and I use that word, but I refuse toÂ
use the word that you did. Yeah. Yeah. Really, it’s just
pathetic, but it’s how the mind mind works. Um,
but yeah, so then, like I say,  I’ve got I’ve got the podcast and as soon as moneyÂ
was involved, I it changed why I wanted to do it. I I was a poet. I was a full-time poet for aÂ
while. And then the next lot of money was to write new stuff and do a theater tour. And I was justÂ
like, I now feel like I’m having to write stuff to the value of what you’re paying. So I stoppedÂ
doing it. Never did it again. Podcasting, never did it again until I started playing ice hockey.Â
And it’s like as soon as money was introduced,  it changed the reason why I wanted to do theÂ
thing. And now I don’t do the thing anymore. Yeah. Because it was quite a significant point.Â
You I’ve watched you speak. I was I was going to say hundreds of times, but I don’t think it’sÂ
hundreds of time, but it’s a lot of times. Yeah. And I know you always used to finish it off
with the knife crime with the knife crime poem. Um, so I knowÂ
you was always into the poetry and yeah,  we’ve had the conversations where as soonÂ
as it became about money, you kind of devi said to me, “Oh, do you know Phil?” I go,Â
“Yeah, the gadget man.” Like if there was  anything that came out of the latest gadgets, youÂ
had it. Even if you used it once. Oh, yes. So, have you seen this? Like, I always remember youÂ
coming. I’ll always remember. And you were like,  “So, listen, K, I’ve got this thing.” Yeah. AndÂ
I remember coming to your studio and you had this thing and you was like, “Look.” And you weld itÂ
and it worked. So, I don’t know how it worked,  but it made the thing disappear.
Oh, yeah. The 360 camera. The 360. But you couldn’t see. You was holdingÂ
it. You like, “Look, look.” You went, but then  you’d look into it and you go in depth and thenÂ
you go, “However, there’s this little bit here where then you think, oh, wait, it’s cut off hisÂ
arm. Where’s his arm gone?” And stuff like that.  I used to look at you and think, mate, IÂ
like gadgets, but this is ridiculous. Um, I am bad for that. Yeah.
Yeah. So, how did the gadget  thing come? How did that come about? I’veÂ
just always been into like gaming and like Would you say you’re an undercover geek
or Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Or or nerd? I Yeah, I don’t think it’sÂ
undercover. I think I’m just So, which one would you say you are? Geek or nerd?
Um, both. Like, I’m greedy. I’ll take both. if I’m an addict. But it’s that thing of like alwaysÂ
wanting like the new like the phone I’ve got. It’s one of these because I use YouTube a lot. SoÂ
that’s my screen, but I can play I can attach my Xbox controller to that and play my actual XboxÂ
from it. And do you know what I mean? like I am a bit um but when something new comes out, notÂ
necessarily like a new version of something,  but like the 360 camera, I’ve now got a betterÂ
360 camera and then I’ve got a £5,000 VR camera, which is just a 360 camera that’s got umÂ
six 8K cameras on it and it’s like there it’s just like, oh, what’s what’s the next?
And you live in total mess as well, by the way. Oh, it’s it’s the disorganized chaos in it.
Yeah. The amount of times you go, I have got it. Just give me a minute. I keep pulling back blackÂ
blinds and I’ve got one somewhere around here.  I’ll look for it. Then again, I took it home.
Yeah. So, it’s because I do that many things like especiallyÂ
in the studio. The studio like we’ve got a podcast  area, photography area, but then I startedÂ
playing ice hockey. Yeah. So, we’ve got the room that’s all right cuz that’s sort of separate,Â
but then there’s like there’s some women who come  and have like a mental health meeting there on aÂ
Wednesday. So like they’ve got like a table with some biscuits and a kettle and a fridge. And
so whenever I’m using it, it looks ace because  it’s set up for that one thing. But you lookÂ
behind that and it’s just mess. That’s that’s how your brain works. Yeah, it it is a bit like that.Â
Like I can’t I’ve always said there’s there’s a bit of my brain that always needs attention. SoÂ
I can’t I can’t sit and like do one thing if I’m on my laptop. I have to have like something onÂ
Netflix I’ve already watched before. If I haven’t  watched it before, I’m watching that instead.
So, I’d cycle through Suits, Sons of Anarchy, New Girl, um, and, uh, Brooklyn 999. So, I watchÂ
it all the way through all the seasons to the end, go on to the next one, the next one, theÂ
next one, start again at episode one. You’re always doing something new, areÂ
you? You’re always Is it more that you’re challenging yourself? Is that why you continuouslyÂ
do something or like you took up ice hockey now? Yeah. So, as an example, does that come fromÂ
either a someone saying no, you can’t do it,  or is that coming from where you go, cuz I knowÂ
you did the rollerblading and stuff like that younger. Is that where you go, well, this isÂ
the next step and I want to challenge myself  to see if I can do it and see how far
with work. It’s one thing ain’t enough, so I’ll do two things. But then eventually, youÂ
get used to doing two things, so then I’ll do  three things. And then it’s just constantly likeÂ
once I get to a manageable sort of workload, I’ll add more stuff because it then becomes like I’mÂ
distracting myself because this is now quite easy or not challenging enough. Um with ice hockey, IÂ
was I was getting paid but not given any work to do um last year. So every month I got paid butÂ
there was never any like we need you to do this. So it was I had a lot of spare time and someone IÂ
was doing all my own stuff like I was keeping busy cuz I can’t do nothing. So I was making films andÂ
and doing all sorts and then um someone said to me why don’t you um start playing ice hockey cuzÂ
I’ve been watching it as a fan for like four years in Leeds and do like YouTube videos of the processÂ
and I was just like why don’t I just start playing ice hockey and do videos of the process. But thenÂ
what’s happened is that work stopped. So now I’m busy with work and also trying to fit in ice
ice hockey and so I haven’t really done videos for a while. I’ve been I’ve been watchingÂ
a couple of the first first videos and it’s  funny to watch to see how far I’ve come. But
so I’ve got a few more questions for you and then we’ll we’ll tie it up. So well first to lastÂ
one is is what does the future hold for Phil? See it happened again. My first thought of thatÂ
answer was to do with work and it shouldn’t be. Um I want to be um I’m thinking about differentÂ
things now like a stable relationship um my own home um maybe even out of debt. That’s that’sÂ
where my head’s going because the more the more personal I work with this amazing woman calledÂ
Joe. um she runs reestablish and she whenever we start eating it’s not it’s not like um throwawayÂ
conversation she’ll ask things like um you know what what three things have you got on your bucketÂ
list and if you don’t have any she like what what  do you want on it and it makes you imagine theÂ
future and then it makes you like all right so if that’s what I want to do what am I doing now
to get there um so I love stuff like that and she we hadÂ
the conversation a couple of week ago and it made me realize that um my ambitions nowÂ
are more personal. It’s more about, you know, like hockey’s getting me back into goodÂ
health because I’m training almost every day  of week whether I’m on the ice or in the gym or
which is good for the mental. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um Okay.
So, yeah. So, it’s  more it’s more personal goals. Now, if you’d haveÂ
asked me this 3 years ago, it would have been,  “Oh, I want life experience to be
Yeah. Whatever. The best charity, the best.” Okay.
Next one. And I know you’ve heard me ask  this question before. If you could change anythingÂ
in your past, would you and what would it be? Um, see I always find is I find this bitÂ
difficult because mine will always  lead me back to my children. So if I changeÂ
things, it’s always going to lead me to my children. Or if they’ve asked me in a school,Â
then I won’t be here today talking to you. Yeah. Like now I won’t be s talking with youÂ
today. So trying I I find it hard to live with regret because most people always putÂ
changing something because they regret it. Yeah. So jumping off the motorbike was a big one.
But then like you say, my life might be worse now because I didn’t jump offÂ
the bike than it is today. Yeah. Because if you would have jumped offÂ
to the bike, you wouldn’t have been with that woman. She wouldn’t have introduced you.Â
The cogs in your man would have said, “Well,  football, fitness, boxing, it’s all gone.”
School sport would have carried on. So like you don’t know where that’sÂ
going to take you or you know you would have been a pro footballer.
We’ll see. But it could have been like I could like best case scenario I’m on 50 60Â
70 80 grand a year as a businessman absolutely hating my job. Like never ever got onto aÂ
level with a young person and spoke to them  about the things that they’re feeling or goingÂ
through. I would never. Do you know what I mean? Which leads me on to my nextÂ
question. My final question. But but but before you move on I I’ve got aÂ
really bad relationship with my little girl. So, okay,
I started taking  drugs and I used ketamine a lot and watch videosÂ
of her as a child because I couldn’t see her. So, that was my way of spending time with her whenÂ
the reality is all I had to do is not take drugs and pick up the phone.
Yeah. So, I’ve had an on-off relationship with her for she’s 20 she’s in her 20s now. Um Yeah. SheÂ
were born in 03. Um so, she had her 22nd birthday in January. Um, and we’ll like we’ll spend timeÂ
together and then we won’t and then we will and then we won’t. And then we were planning a 21stÂ
birthday. We spent loads of time together going out for food. Went to cinema which was one of theÂ
first things we did for no reason. A lot of it was like, “Oh, can you take me to get my car emoted or
Yeah. This was like genuine spending time together.”Â
Yeah. So, I absolutely love that. Um, but now we’re in a she’s not speaking toÂ
me and I got some messages which were like  I’m never going to speak to you again. sort ofÂ
thing. So, there’s a lot there where it’s like, I wish I’d have made better choices there becauseÂ
that’s not just affected my life, that’s affecting her life and it still is now 20 years possiblyÂ
affect other people’s life that she she as well. Yeah. So, that’s that that is a million% a regret
going through with what you went through though, but then but just having that relationship wouldÂ
have been different. But it’s difficult because  if I made better choices, I wouldn’t have takenÂ
drugs. I wouldn’t have gone to prison. I wouldn’t have done all the things that I’m doing now.
Honestly, so that relationship is more important toÂ
me than all the stuff that I’m doing. Yeah. So that would be the oneÂ
thing I chose regardless of how  that would have changed my life today.
Okay. Again leads me on to the still leads me on to the next question. So adviceÂ
that you would give this generation. Um let’s go with I’ll give you two. Okay. I’ll giveÂ
you two things you can give as advice for this young this generation that we’ve got now.
These kids in school that are getting involved in crime andÂ
social behavior whether it be knife crime, gun crime, drugs, whatever it might be. If
you had two two options that you could  give the advice on what would be the advice?
It’s difficult cuz the advice we give is based on their circumstances at the time, isn’t it?
So you’ve got people involved in sort of drug dealing at a young age. It’s about um positiveÂ
influences in the life. Like who do you look up to? Like the the Rock is one of the hardest work.Â
He’s now the highest paid actor in the world. The Rock when well I say in theÂ
world there’s probably a wrestler in in in like in America and England sortÂ
of thing. He’s the highest gross actor, but he’s hardworking, but he’s not likeÂ
no one looks up to him. He’s not cool. And it’s that thing of like what whatÂ
what are they seeing as cool? And what people actually use that word cool anymore?
Well, like probably who are they inspired by? And it’sÂ
like it’s either people who aren’t doing the right things and then they’re inspired for theÂ
wrong reasons. And we know it’s it’s due to like bits that they’re looking for in their lifeÂ
that’s missing. So, they’re attaching on to  things that feel familiar or they feel they feelÂ
like that’s what’s missing. Um or it’s immediate gratification. You’ve got YouTubers, they makeÂ
one viral video, they’re famous, and everyone’s chasing that instant sort of win.
It’s that dopamine hit in there. Yeah. And they think that their life will changeÂ
if they are horrible to someone on video or, you know, if they push someone off the bikeÂ
into a canal or and it’s that thing of like,  I don’t care about how it affects otherÂ
people. This is going to benefit my life, so I’m going to do it. Um, and it’s just that.
Okay, then. So, we’ll change it to the advice  you’d give your younger self then.Â
Um it would be something around um the education side, the way your head works.
Um a million%. Like I feel like I feel like my life would have been different if thereÂ
would have been more understanding around how my head worked when I was young. Um and IÂ
think a lot of a lot of issues would have been either resolved or would never have happened.Â
Like I say, I was just the disruptive one who was always getting into trouble.
Well, wasn’t that masking? Well,  yeah. Because I didn’t understand Yeah.
why I was the one who, you know, like trying to do something funnyÂ
because I don’t understand in class. Yeah.
You know what I mean? And it’s like he’s  a class clown. It’s like, yeah, but it’s becauseÂ
I don’t know what’s going on. Laughing at you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so if it was to myself,Â
it would be something around that, I think. and just about how you know everybody learnsÂ
different because when we was in school I say we like I’m obviously a lot younger than you but whenÂ
when we were back in day when we were in school um there’s no understanding of those things
wasn’t a thing was it and not only that there wasn’t understanding that
boys or men could talk about how they felt as well was all that man up but you actingÂ
like a girl for big boys don’t cry so I get that times have changed
so final one is yours, my friend. The final question is yours.
Um I I don’t know if anyone’s ever asked you this before or not. Um but I feelÂ
like it’s sort of sort of a two-parter on um why why you you doing this now? Um andÂ
similar to what you asked me, like what if you have an end goal, what is it like? What youÂ
trying to achieve? Oh, no. No one’s asked me the second the first one of why do I first partÂ
of the question is why do I do what I do now? Yeah.
Um because the why why I do it now is obviously one just cuz obviously you know that IÂ
got the letter from my mom and that’s what kind of  changed. But why I do it now is because I believeÂ
that I wasted a lot of time, a lot of years. And it’s only because I’m at a certain age whereÂ
I think, wow. And and I do look back and I go,  I know I’m intelligent. I’m very smart. I leftÂ
school with eight GCSEs. I know how clever I am. and the amount of people that I’ve met along myÂ
path, whether it be in prison or whatever it is,  who are highly intelligent or incredibly talentedÂ
at sport and other things, and I think, “Wow, what are you doing?” But I’m actuallyÂ
sat there with the mentality of going, I know what that is. DoÂ
you know what I mean? Yeah. So I’m I’m So the whole thing now is allÂ
about educating young people enough for them to realize that they do have a talentÂ
and letting them find what that talent is. Cuz everybody has everybody has something thatÂ
they’ll be a master at. It’s just to find it. So I Yeah. I want people to do as many thingsÂ
as possible so that then they pick one thing  and they go that’s mine. That’s my talent. SoÂ
that’s that one. Your second part is one goal. Yeah. I guess end goal or what’s what’s likeÂ
the plan? What what do you know what I don’t  have a plan? My plan is very basicÂ
to be honest with you. My plan is as long as I fall asleep every night and IÂ
wake up every morning, I’ve had a good day. Okay?
Because everything in between can change. But the two things that are most important is isÂ
is those two things is falling asleep at night, wake up in the morning. Cuz again, you wake up inÂ
the morning and say we’ve got a meeting at 12:00. you go car you’re not going to believeÂ
what’s happened I’ve got a flat tire  I’m running late so therefore our meetings late
so that disrupts that day can possibly whereas falling asleep at night and wake up inÂ
the morning everything in between can  change but those two things are significantÂ
because you’ve got a family kids x y and z you get to see them first thing on on theÂ
morning you wake up and you get to see  the things that are important here so for me
fall asleep at night wake up in the morning that’s that’s my goal but I live that’s my goalÂ
every day. So my goal is that every single day. Okay.
So I live with a goal every day. Sounds like a bit of a cheatÂ
like a very achievable goal. Not necessarily cuz you never know, dear. LikeÂ
let’s be honest, mate. You just never know. But I think long term would be to leave onÂ
the verge as a legacy where people talk of on the verge in from a positive point of viewÂ
and say where the travel cuz you know yourself your name can proceed you can’t you
so I’d rather it be a on the verge  and then everybody else comes second to that
but the and the individuals that are with within on the verge second on the verge is there
cuz it’s yeah that’s that’s That’s the whole point of it. Well, Phil, thankÂ
you very much for coming. Honestly, we’ve been quite well behaved, haven’t we?
Yeah. Oh gosh. Yeah, we have. We haven’t  even got no outakes. Um, but is there anythingÂ
that anything you want to finish off with? Or is there anything you want to say? Anything thatÂ
you’re doing, but you want people to know about? Um, no. If anyone wants to watch some amateurÂ
ice hockey, um, it’s all on my podcast channel. will fill me in. All the podcasts are on thereÂ
as well to be fair. So if you scroll through the  history we’ll put the link in the bio anyway.
There’s a lot of we’ll do a link on that one. Yeah,
we’ll do a link on  that one. Our out’s not on there, is it?
I don’t know. You know, it might be. That would be a good one to put because Yeah,Â
it might be. Go and look. Go see if that’s  just a group of people laughing like bellyÂ
laughing spoke about. But no, honestly, Phil, listen. I promise you. Thank you very much.
I’ve appreciated having you on. Thank you.