Can a Bike Route Save Empty Spain?

Learn more: https://montanasvacias.com/
Interview with Ernesto Pastor the founder of the Montana Vacias bikepacking route.
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hey there everyone we’re here in Terwell and we have the great honor of uh speaking with Ernesto Pastor who is the creator of the Montana Vas root uh project uh we’ve been hearing so much about this project throughout our travels since many years ago and it’s it’s great pleasure to finally get a chance to chat with you oh thank you very much it’s my pleasure really to to have you here really so in preparation for this interview I watched you I watched many interviews uh with you and I thought it was interesting that you didn’t call it a root but you called it a project like what’s the difference yeah for me even could call it experiment because it was like a bit of project for me because I wanted to to show that uh something that was humble small and and with no purpose economically um could have a really positive impact in the in the area and I know I have read a lot of articles even some of you some some years ago that that uh bikes and and and and bike packing could have a really nice impact in the areas and and some of those uh texts and and books that I read about it really moved me to to try it at least so it wasn’t a root because yeah obviously it was a root but it was much more i wanted to to to create soft movement because uh we live in a in one of the most depopulated areas in in Europe with Lapland and and the Highlands in in Scotland so uh I need I needed to show myself first in in the first moment that this could be possible because I was see I was seeing that it was possible in in the states in some parts of Europe in in in other parts of the world so I thought why not why not if people are going I taking planes to to go to other corner of the world why couldn’t they come here to to travel and this area can show uh all that bike travelers and bike packers can find when they are traveling so the finally in this place have all all those places that I was looking for when I was traveling around the world so so that’s why the It for me is more like a project yeah yeah for us we’ve seen like just the very little bit of it and it it reminds us so much of parts of eastern Oregon of Montana you know similar trees the climbs you know the the rivers and everything it’s it’s an amazing spot yeah and and there are some there have been some travelers from Oregon and Montana and and they they say the same it seems like familiar for us and the geology is similar and the landscape so the vegetation plants and and animals so yeah it’s it’s crazy to to to have these similarities in between yeah yeah uh so how the root is or the project is six years old or five years yeah it was created on in December of uh 2020 2018 so yeah it’s seven years already yeah so what’s it like to have created something put something out there on the internet and see people start to come yeah at the beginning wasn’t so easy because yeah it was just created it and put the information in a web send it to bypacking.com and nothing happened from months and months and months but finally uh one of the editors of uh bypacking.com I don’t know why they he was riding around the area and discovered the the route because he heard something in one blet so he I don’t know why I don’t know how he arrived to my web he wrote me and I met him i was so happy because I have read all his articles and and and I I was so happy to have him here and he told me “Oh this route has to be in the packing.com for sure because it’s amazing.” He was the first rider than then nice did the route so when he told me “Oh I sent it like six or seven months ago the to the editors.” Oh no don’t tell me “Oh tonight I will call in.” And boom and I didn’t have to do anything more uh was published the following week and and and people started to come it was a big explosion from in in the United States and in another part of Europe and even in in 2019 was just was chosen like the root of the year for Beakin also so I have this this award and it was like another big explosion in the following year and that’s it uh the the the the people started to talk about it and a lot of magazines a lot of people writing a lot of videos articles photos in Instagram mhm and it was done uh the effect in villages started to arrive and and what I like is that people in vites told me that it was really magic that it was like a small raindrop the whole year it was not concentrated in one season and it was during the whole year and in the whole week so it was yeah it was the experiment was like showing that it was really possible yeah yeah uh do you have a sense of how many people write a year or or how much the growth has done the point is that I don’t need that metric i don’t need the number i prefer to center my my my mind and my criteria in in the opinion of v of the villages of the people who live in the villages the people who work in the villages in the restaurants in the accommodations uh because uh it’s most is more useful for me it’s like the the the more you the most useful thermometer of the state of the root because uh I don’t know if 1,000 or 2,00 or 500 is too much or not it depends of the of opinion of of of these people so um I prefer to ask to talk to to to have a lot of feedback from people living and working in villages uh anyway it’s I think it’s impossible to know how many people is coming because uh not everybody download from my web or from the platform everyone emails you know hopefully not everybody is writing me but yeah people say that almost every day from February March until November is is starting the root so it could be around thousand thousand and something could be something like Yeah yeah that’s a that’s a smart way to measure the impact not so much the metric of the the number of cyclists but like its actual effect on the ground because you there could be like a bike event that brings a thousand people but if no one stops you know they they only stay in one place and they don’t spread you know the economic development that you know was a success totally agree and and that’s why uh it was also one of my motivations because I come from that side of the sport i was like competing some years ago and I have raced around this area a lot of times and and I was discovering that I have been in a lot of these places but I never spent a single euro in in India in those places because I was driving from here racising spending some money in the organizer of the event but not a single euro in the in the villages and and and I see that there is a lot of effort a lot of uh support of governments to create this kind of races and events but they don’t know that they are not leaving any single money in the in the in the villages so it’s also to to change some minds up there to try to instill or trying to inspire some um building some root building values in in in other in in administrations in governments so they can invest money in the right way if they want to to create some impact in villages because they really need this impact yeah what are do you have any stories or anecdotes from like a small from the from the villages that you can share from other builders yeah from like a restaurant oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah there are a lot of them because uh you have been crazy this year but but for example um there are some there are some uh there is one place that the bar has been closed for 25 years uh until two years ago and one old woman from this village got to to guide me by email she wasn’t the owner of the bar but she was telling me that she was so excited and so crying because it was like a new life for the village because all people it was the the bar is like the social hub in the village so uh uh he he just tell me thank you because the bar is open in part because of you because this family saw that that almost every day there are riders here that they ask to the other people in the village where they can uh buy some food or spend a night and and they created this because of that or for example other billets that it was just a small bar in the middle of the town but everybody was asking where they can spend the night but there was no other possibility so the following the next year the owner of the bar repair the second floor of the bar and create some accommodation for cyclist and they have a lot of riders every month so yeah it’s for example Surya you have been in Surya and they came from from the city they left on this previous life to to create a a crazy new life here mhm sometimes I feel like a bit scared about all these things because I feel a bit of responsibility of that because I have to keep on taking care of of this creature this little monster but yeah it’s it’s a privilege and and it’s the result of the experiment right yeah i wanted to show it and yes so I have to do it but yeah I have to be proud of it not scared i’m learning kind of learning that’s cool like that’s what we’ve heard similar stories like uh where we’ve seen rural bike tourism where sometimes the success isn’t you know all of a sudden like people are rich it’s just that they can stay open a little bit longer and that helps the locals as well so it’s not just for the tourists but you know the bar the restaurant can hire another employee or they’re open long in the week or you know or the services because for example there are some bars that from the from the start of a route they started to bring some some a small shop inside the bar so you can buy some some pasta some rice some cans some dried food so it’s great yeah people is using it uh yeah a new opportunity Yeah has it changed how people view cyclists in the area instead of like oh who are these weirdos to yeah especially in in some hotels because first year there was some hotels that they say no to cyclist because we spend just one night and they usually said for one night I don’t want to to warm up the hotel or I don’t want to come from Valencia Saragoa Madrid because they don’t live in the area they just come on weekends uh and that year they say no to every kind of cyclist but then uh seeing the effect of the rude and talking to with with other villages they started to be interested and and even some of these hotels now write are writing me to to ask for what we need when we are traveling so they have tools they have some spares some even some food uh they put bigger plates of food because we are so hungry when we’re alive so yeah it’s amazing because it’s like creating some cycling culture in the area in the in the in the host in the hotels and and they are seeing that they have to take care of us because we are going the whole year during the week not just in the weekend and and even some of them tell me that we are the best uh uh clients now because we arrive late hungry we sleep a lot and in the morning we live uh so early and everything is okay we are not like um trying to find any discussion or we are easy we are easy yeah they’re not drinking all night and start bikes we are easy clients yeah the the shape of the route is kind of interesting because it’s not just a big loop you know there’s like other there’s like different cut off points like why did you structure it like that i was uh I I knew that when I was traveling I I I not always have 15 days for traveling or a week so I couldn’t I I wanted to to fit the route so people could write from one weekend three days for days until maybe one month if you do the XL version until the north of Spain so yeah I just put it because I was it was what I was looking for when I was traveling and that’s why and also I I tried to expand with other new loops because I wanted that other villages could enjoy the effects of this big experiment so instead of trying to uh bring more people to the original loop I tried to create smaller loops uh to bring more people to other areas in the in this territory also because I was seeing that a lot of people was coming like three four five years in a row so they wanted to to have more more and more roots in the area because they trust it was like um um trademark if Montas is is it’s got to be good developing a good route and they have done the rest of the loops they have to come so and that’s crazy because for example last year I I I uh created a new loop and two days after publishing it there was riders right and amazing it was crazy yeah it’s so smart to give people the option to do like bite-sized sections because like you said not everyone has the time or maybe the fitness to to do the entire thing and also constantly creating new things for for people to return to u so you you started the website and uh I think one of the things that was really evocative was your use of like illustration and it wasn’t just you know just photography like why why do that in the beginning yeah you’re part of it yeah definitely you’re part of it because uh when I started with this uh I thought that I couldn’t show any emotion or I couldn’t put all the emotions that I wanted to show in the project because I I wasn’t in photography i wasn’t in waterc coloring and I thought thanks to you that watercolors and painting could be a a beautiful way to express emotions and and that’s what I wanted to express with my project i wanted to create uh some movement inside so yeah I started because of that because I thought that my project wasn’t hard and strong enough and it was like an envelope to to give him more more like like a package to to to to so I started painting just because of Montas i haven’t seen what I got before it and now it’s always with me when I’m traveling so it’s like a therapy for me now after a long day traveling or riding is like now to to relax and also help me to disconnect from my previous era competing yeah so I I I I had a lot of energy that I had to put in other things that that driving I I didn’t want to ride for 20 hours per day so I had to put some energy in other things like photography or painting so yeah it was it was for that yeah it’s very evocative it makes it like it almost makes the experience of riding through the root more romantic in a way you know as opposed to like when you see some pictures of roots and it’s just you know guys like sweating and like you know but like you don’t get the same sense of like that’s it that’s it you know it wasn’t the image that I wanted to to show it wasn’t the drama the the epic of of this i wanted to to immerse people in the experience of riding in a depopulated area not enjoying it but living in it and and and understanding it so yeah all of that was like to create to to create that that ambient environment to to to feel that also with sounds i I started to feel that uh capturing undergarding sounds in the in the DS and and the sunset was like uh also a way to to to to express the emotions of u of the place because we live in a in one of the most quiet places on on the planet and also it’s like um inspiration for the area to show that we have to take care of of quiet in this area because uh there are not so many places in the planet with the quality with acoustic quality that we have here so uh I also try to combine photography with watercolor with sounds to I still shaping something i published like a a double album a couple of months ago with a lot of recordings oh cool of this area just to try to to raise awareness not to people in the other corner of the world but in the people in the villages that they have to know that that this route uh last year was awarded like um the first piping route in the planet that can be considered like quiet trail yeah it’s a for me it’s a very important certification that that has the job to show to the locals that they have to take care of uh of this resource of this value that they have to to take care of it so yeah it’s like it can be like a like a product of future an opportunity for these villages so all that all of that I I think it can be yeah in the in the same line photography text painting and it’s all like a multimedia experiment it’s like putting a lot of uh hobbies inside this experiment um you brought up an interesting point that we’ve seen in other places also where um you know it could be a small village and that has a very popular route that goes through it and all of a sudden locals you look at their place different they’re like “Oh maybe our our place is special it’s not just like a a rainbow road.” Have you seen that happen yeah sure because the first person that happened where it happened it was with me because even if I created the project I was so surprised when I started to be to to to to see people from Canada from Alaska from the other part of the world and I was like crazy like asking all the time but why are you coming here if you are from Canada what have you moved to to so even if I’m the creator I was the first one who have who had to to heal that uh low self uh um awareness of this area yeah so yeah in vites they are I’m still I’m I’m also seeing this movement especially in in people who left maybe one generation ago that they starting to to look to the area of his parents or grandparents uh in a different way and there are some people who wrote the the the root without having been here before even if this is the area of of his mother of his grandmother or so so I received a lot of emails with that emotion that thank you for creating it because it helped me to come back to my I have to my origin right and I think that’s so important because um yeah these people usually live in the city and they left this this um this area maybe one generation or two generations ago and some of them are thinking or even have returned to the area and we need this kind of people that even they have a house in the villages but it’s an empty house they are the the the main um uh participants of this movement to come back to the villages so yeah I I think it’s like planting seeds right on them because if they have to choose one place to come back they will come back to the origin so yeah let’s see what happens with time but yeah it could be great to see some movement about it tourism is a big topic in Spain lots of like mass tourists uh protests against mass tourism in Barcelona it’s not here yet but is that something like in the in the back of your mind like you know when is enough for sure for sure yeah i it’s is where I put 98% of my energy now because uh I always have the same doubt of where is the red line yeah uh for me because it depends of people it’s not the same point for me is not the same point for you or for the owner of a hotel or for the mayor of a village or for the people who lives in the village during the whole year so yeah I’m a lot of I have a lot of inner conversation about it because I want to to bring that um that balance between sustainability positive effect um and and and growing as well because I need to know I need I would like to know where this development start to affect to the sustainability or or or the opinion in the villages so yeah and also um some riders told me take care because it could be the next Jyrona Jirona and I don’t know I have been in Jirona but I have met a lot of people from there and riders from there riding here and I’m a bit scared because I think the origin of the route and the project are different because here businesses is not involved in the origin of a project and the soul of the project is completely different yeah but for sure it’s something that that scares me and is where I try to put all my energy now that’s why also I try to put more energy in values and and instill and inspire values for example with sound and quality of sound and try to to explain people that the important thing is not more visitors but better visitors to improve the profile of the visitor uh we don’t need thousands of tourists we need we need that these people can come during the whole year and spending in all villages but uh understanding and respecting what they are pedalling and and and that’s important so spend energy in values and not in growing is my my mantra now that’s hard because there’s there’s always a temptation to grow you know when money gets involved yeah of brands or I assume I assume have you been approached probably by by events that people that want to like race turn the rear to a race or something like what’s been your response to that once they talk with me or have a coffee with me or receive like a two hours email from me because when I receive this kind of offers I explain my my mind and my philosophy and I always get the same answer the oh Sorry all right yeah sorry we didn’t get your real philosophy congratulations keep on like that you are doing a great great job it’s very rare you know like you’re But we need we need some rare people because yeah the thing is getting a bit uh weird so we need more people like different options and Yeah I think it’s important to be different yeah yeah for sure so what’s uh what’s the future look like for Montas what does success look like do you have the sense of that are you there already um I could say that I don’t know what’s the the future like but I think I’m more I have more clear the idea of what I don’t want to be in the future and I think it’s more important or at least is important right because um I don’t know which way I’m sailing but I don’t I I know as I told you that I don’t want to sail to some places and to have those places clear just give me the the direction so right and and that’s the direction of instill values more than growing I think but I don’t know in which way yeah well it’s good to start thinking about that now like a lot of times we’ve seen where destinations don’t don’t ever imagine being successful until it’s too late until they they’ve crossed that line and it’s easier to manage that before it happens right yeah when when you have done it wrong it’s much more difficult to to come back so if in every step you take you relax and think about it I think it’s easier to to to do things right from the beginning instead of uh repairing the the bad things yeah right well thank you so much Ernesa for this uh awesome conversation hopefully you guys found it uh insightful and interesting and hopefully tempt you to come out uh but not too many at the same time no no no do you do you have any last words that you want to share with folks yeah what you told that please come here we need um visitors in this area but visitors with u with a high awareness about the reality of a place that they will ride so yeah visit my web the montanoscias.com the all the information is there with a free guide in PDF and all the information Facebook group and Instagram and everything and if any doubt they can write me whatever they want name on it you’re you should start a YouTube channel you’re a pro at this now so all right everybody hopefully you guys enjoyed this video check out the links below as always let’s get to supple