Flurina Rigling’s story will move you. 🌟 Six-time world champion & Paralympic medalist, but her journey is far deeper than medals. Flurina, born with a condition affecting her hands and feet, reveals how para-cycling transformed her life, not just her athletic career.🚴♀️
Hear how she navigated a world where she felt neither “disabled” nor “typical,” finding her path to elite sport. Discover the incredible collaboration with ETH Zurich, where 3D-printed technology became a lifeline, enabling her to push beyond perceived limits. ⚙️
More than just a sports story, this is a tale of self-discovery. Flurina shares her raw, honest emotions about how para-sports reshaped her identity and empowered her as a woman. “Para sports really changed myself as a woman with a handicap, or how I go through life.” ❤️
Feel her passion as she speaks about defining your own limits, a message that resonates far beyond the cycling track. This is about resilience, innovation, and the power of believing in yourself. Listen now and be inspired.
#ParaCycling #Inspiration #Resilience #PersonalJourney #podcast
00:00 Introduction: Becoming a Paracyclist
04:05 Flurina’s Journey: Starting a New Chapter at 22
05:10 How Paracycling Differs from Traditional Cycling
08:05 Understanding Paracycling Categories
09:30 Adaptive Tech: Flurina’s Bike & Shoes with ETH Zurich
12:08 Realising a Professional Path in Cycling
14:02 Exploring Different Cycling Disciplines
15:45 Preparing for a Race: What It Takes
17:20 Inside Flurina’s Training Routine
20:00 Mental Health & Wellbeing as an Athlete
23:00 How Cycling Transformed Flurina’s Life
24:40 Speaking Up: Advocating for Inclusion
27:21 Advice for Aspiring Para Athletes
31:20 Crazy Things that Happen During a Race
32:28 Getting in the Zone: Race Day Mindset
34:40 Flurina’s Most Memorable Highlights
36:25 How Long Can a Cycling Career Last?
37:30 What Most People Don’t Know About Paracycling
39:04 Boosting Visibility in Para Sports
39:53 Cycling for Fun vs. Career: What It Means Now
40:34 Staying Resilient Through Challenges
41:30 Life Off the Bike: Flurina’s Hobbies
43:03 Balancing Studies and Cycling
43:32 Why Normalising Disabilities Matters
From idea to mic, Sow It Goes is the brainchild of Nicole Davidson — a podcast she dreamed up, brought to life, edits, and guides with her voice & vision.
You always have to explain a bit: I’m a para athlete, but that doesn’t mean that I’m not just an athlete. I’m an athlete. And para athlete, or para cycling is like my discipline. When you’re young, you just want to be part of the society or like everybody else. I always compared myself to my sister, to my friends who don’t have a handicap. It really hurt me back then when somebody was looking at me or saying something. And nowadays it doesn’t kind of hurt me in person as much as it did before. I have a handicap, but that’s okay. Define your own limits. That was always important for me, and I think that’s true for everybody. Flurina Rigling, you are a force to be reckoned with. A six time world champion, a Paralympic medalist and a record breaking para cyclist. But titles don’t tell the full story. How did your para cycling journey begin? Oh, well, that’s a long story. Or actually, it’s kind of. It’s not that I planned it or something. I was always kind of sporty as a child, but I didn’t really, look only for cycling because, I mean, there was always something in my side, like, I would like to do competitive sports, but somehow you also feel like, oh, that’s just not a possibility for me, because, I mean, I have a handicap since I’m born on both hands and feet. So you were always or I was always a bit like, that’s not something for me. And I did a lot of different sports. I just tried to, I tried different sports like every child does it. And then later I was like, I also want to train more specific because my sister, she started to row she was really successful in rowing and that fascinated me. And then I was like, there must be something for me. And I was never really looking for para sports because I didn’t know it. And I also never identified myself with other para athletes or with people with a disability because I grew up like, let’s say, normal. I was never in a special school or anything. So I also was looking for kind of no, not passport, not disabled sport. And then still I also realized that I was able to really, take a normal bike because for a very long time time, I could only break with kind of my pedals when pedaling backwards. And then you, you are limited in your gears. And in Switzerland, that’s not so much fun with only seven gears. But, I mean, I always used to cycle, but then I realized I have stronger hands. And moreover, the technique just made so much progress that I could really buy a normal bike. And I used to to ride it a lot. And then at the same time, I started to look what could be my possibility for to professional sports and I got in touch with PluSport. That’s the federation for para sports in Switzerland, one of two. And I was really insecure is that really was what I’m looking for because I felt, that’s no, not so much professional. That’s just a bit kind of leisure sports. That’s not what I’m looking for. But, But they prove me wrong. And then it was thanks to the national coach who was so motivated, and he came to me and he brought some bikes, and he, he was like, yeah, you use this bike, we go for a ride. I was a bit afraid because, I mean, I couldn’t really break. And I think he was also afraid, but he was so motivated and he was really supporting me. Then he helped me to get to know my coach that I’m training today also with his and I think he really gave me what I was looking for, and I was kind of the beginning. So I started not really knowing what was expecting me, but it was really what I was looking for. How old were you when you started to seriously pursue cycling? Well, it was, before the pandemic, so it was around six years ago, so I was 22 or something. Yeah. Is that considered late? I have no idea how how early people start training in a professional sense. Well, it’s endurance sport I think if you would like to gymnastics or something, you would have no chance because it’s the technique you need to, you need a lot of time to get that well. And I think if you look at cycling at the moment, especially women’s cycling, it’s pretty interesting. A lot of people started during the pandemic, and it’s often that people were sporty before. They did a lot of endurance sport and then they start, with cycling. So it’s it’s not it’s it is really possible to start later with, with cycling. I mean, it’s it’s technical, but it’s not the same like gymnastic, as I said before. In what way is para cycling similar or different to traditional cycling? There are a lot of similarities. So I mean the bikes, the bike is the same, the training is the same, like we do aero tests, that’s the same. But the interesting thing is what makes para sports really special is people have different abilities or disabilities. So they have like a different starting point. And that also means that we need a lot, a lot of creativity because you need to adapt your bike. And moreover, I mean, there are special bikes. I mean, there are bikes for people in wheelchairs. So they are doing hand, they are kind of flying and they are pedaling with their arms. There are tricycles. They have like three wheels for people with neurological diseases or impairments. And then there are tandems for people with who are often blind or have problems with their eyes. And then there are the standings. Like, that’s what I do with with a normal bike. And these are often athletes who are having an amputation or something. Since there is such a wide range of handicaps or disabilities, how are athletes grouped in such a way that a competition is fair? We have like a classification system. So within this bike groups or classes, there are further classes, depending on how, how strong your disabilities. But it’s really how strong the disability is on the bike. So how much power do you lose. And it’s all about that. So and this is an international, process that you have to go through with the UCI, the, the Federation for cycling in the world. And it’s also clear it’s not about being similar. Being the same, because I always say it’s not. If you look at non para sports, people are also not the same, but it’s about having the same kind of starting point or a comparability. And it’s not like everybody’s the same. It’s more kind of a range. And I think that’s also making para sports really interesting to see how people kind of use their, strength to get the best out of their performance. They still can do, even if they have a handicap. And I think it’s also clear that there are some people they are maybe stronger in sprint, but that’s also the same in regular sports. But with the handicap, it maybe gets more pronounced. So some people are more or present in sprinting because of their handicap, others like me. For me it’s more the longer distance or time trial. And for me that’s really the fascination in seeing how these people with different preconditions kind of, make their best and bring such a high performance. How do the experts decide who goes into which category? What? What does that process look like? What do you as an athlete have to do? Well, you have to hand in some medical papers. There are doctors within that process. They are looking at you on the bike. They’re doing tests off the bike. They are looking at you in the competition. Sometimes it’s also that they are saying you’re under review. So you have to you you have to come later again. And it’s also clear that with some disabilities you have a change. So it might be that somebody will change category because maybe the disease got worse. So especially for neurological, issues that that often happens. And that’s just part of the game. And it’s always the discussion. Is that fair? But as I said, it’s it’s about making sports compatible. And you could also say, yeah, we leave it. But from my point of view, that just part of the power of sports having these categories and it’s important to make them better and to improve the system. But you could also me because for me, it doesn’t make sense to compare somebody with only having one leg with somebody who lost a finger. So for me, it’s kind of necessary and necessary to have these categories, but it’s clear you have to make it the the process really, always improve the process. And then on top of that, you were saying that also your bicycle itself needs certain adaptations. So what does that look like in your case? I need a special handlebar because I’m missing, the fingers to really grab the bar, so I, I have like a support on side of the handlebar and it was fun. Or that’s always something since ever. I have to be creative because there’s no standard solution for me and nobody can tell me kind of what is the solution. And we started really with simple things like testing different angles, to, to see, what do I really need was out of plastic from the two weeks garden market or something. But it was also clear for me I can’t race with them. So I was looking for a solution, and I had, I got in touch with it at university here in Syria. And, I mean, they are making the they made it possible for me, to develop it further. And it was with the student and now these adaptions are 3D printed. And this was a huge gain for me. On the one side, security, I mean, I can handle my bike better, but it also meant that it was more comfortable than before. And moreover, I also get more aerodynamic. So I’m kind of a bit I’m not so holding my bike so wide. And this is really important, important in cycling because then you you need less power for for the same speed. And that’s one bike. That’s the road bike. But I also do time trial. And so in time trials you need the different handlebar. And there the story begins from new I do track you don’t have gears or, you also don’t need to brake there, which makes it a bit easier. But still, you have to be creative. And moreover, I also need, special shoes. And also there we started with a normal shoe and we started to test. And I knew I need somebody who is really understanding it because it’s so complicated. Also with biomechanics. And nowadays I have also shoe disease. 3D printed again, a huge gain, huge progress for me because it’s faster to reproduce it. I can have more than one shoe, which is not normal for me. And yeah, so I’m really dependent on experts and also the technique. But also thanks to technology I’m able to do this sports. Take me back to kind of the beginning. When you started training more professionally, you mentioned earlier that you were a bit scared because you couldn’t really break at the beginning. When did you realize, hey, I’ve really, got a talent for this. I can really do this more, more seriously. I think I didn’t really feel like I had a talent. I just enjoyed it because it was really what I was looking for. I just love to do long rides to to hurt myself a bit, maybe. And also then back then, then, the coach, the national coach, he took me to the track pretty fast, and I was so scared because, again, a bike with no brakes, with only one gear, you have the track that is kind of not just flat. So you need to have a certain speed that you stay on the track. I never did that before, but I, I thought, that’s just so normal for me. I it’s clear I need special shoes, I have to do adaptions. And I didn’t expect it to be good. And then I started to invest. And I think that’s something I did. My whole life and beginnings are always uncomfortable for me, and I just got used to kind of handle this uncomfortability somehow. And again, it’s and then still it’s like super cool if you see the progress. So if you invest and you see where you came from. And I think that that just fascinated me. As we see from your results, you’ve been extremely successful. So first of all, congratulations, because not everyone gets to stand on a podium and celebrate, their achievements. And maybe an a completely different question for people who don’t know much about cycling at all. What are the different disciplines? Well, there I mean, cycling is a huge sport. Why? I think it’s super cool. You have mountain bike, you have track, you have road, you have, indoor. I, I yeah, there is a huge variety, I do road. So it’s like you’re with several people on the road and it’s about who is crossing, crossing the finish line first. There’s also a lot of tactics. And then I do time travel. So you’re alone on the, on the, on the road, and it’s all about kind of against the clock to, who is going fastest. The same course. And they’re aerodynamic again is really important. So you also have a different bike and then there is a track where we have different disciplines. So you also have like a road race which is called scratch. So there are several people on the track and who is crossing the finish line after so and so many laps first, wins. And then you have for example, I mean elimination races where always the last rider gets, has to go out there is like there are sprint disciplines. There is also like the individual time trial, which is a bit more similar to it, time trial outside. So you have a, you try variety and I think my strength is really the endurance. I’m not a sprinter. So time trial road races, scratch and individual pursuit. But you also have to be kind of a bit all rounder to, to, especially on the track where you have also several disciplines that are combined to one race. And I like the variety. When you’re preparing for a race and you’re at the starting line, what is going through your mind in that moment? Very often I’m like, could we start? Because the at the end, I’m always nervous and it’s, it’s stressful. Everybody is nervous and I try to maybe think about what we were discussing about what do you want to do today in the race or. Yeah, but very often it’s just about the can we please start now? And how do you make sure these nerves don’t affect your influence, your performance? For me, just part of the game. And I also know as soon I as I’m on the bike, it gets better and I forget it. And then I’m really focused. And I think it’s always about making the best out of the situation and not feel like that’s all. I’m so nervous. That’s so bad for me. It’s like, yeah, I’m nervous now and it’s part of the game. It’s a bike race. I think it’s good that it is how it is, but it’s also a process. And I work with a sports psychologist who is always helping me. And for me, the preparation preparation starts month years before kind of when I do my training, because I want to be at the starting line and kind of know that I did everything I could, and then I’m totally fine with whatever because I’m like, I trained so hard. There were so hard moments, but now I’m here and I know I did my best. What does your training look like? What do you have to do to prepare? Well, I have longer training. So you’re not riding super hard, but long like three, 4 or 5 hours. And then you have shorter trainings like intervals, which are super hard. And then it’s also during the year. It’s a bit challenging. Maybe at the beginning they are longer. So ten minute 20 minutes, which is more kind of time trial distance where you have to, be able to push hard, but it’s not like a sprint. And then there are shorter intervals like two, three, four minutes, which are really hard. And, and it’s really specific to race situations. So like maybe you have to do some sprints and then be able to hold that the, the pace high, which is what what is happening in the race when people are attacking and I that’s also part why I’m so fascinated of cycling the whole training. It’s really scientific. And I didn’t know that before because you can measure power and you have all these variables and you can measure heart rate and you have to control over your fatigue and stuff at the same time. You need to be able to really listen to your body and that game, finding that balance. That’s interesting. And that’s also possible because I have good coaches who helped me to find that balance. How many days a week do you train or what does that look like? I have no idea what it takes to prepare. Yeah. To add, maybe I do also strength training. So that’s another part of the game. And normally it’s a bit depending on where you are. Because if you’re in altitude you’re recovering. Not that well as if you’re kind of on sea level. So then you have to have more recovery. But normally at the moment I really had like six days in a row, which is pretty hard. And then sometimes it’s also for four days in a row and then one recover day. So for me, it’s not like I don’t really have a seven day week. I always go in that blocks and then the recovery day comes again and then it starts again. And yeah, I mean, you also your body is changing. You have to get to know yourself better. Also together with your coaches, you have to discuss. You always have to find new things to challenge yourself. So yeah, most of the time I have like either one long session a day or then I have two. So for example the interval in the morning, which is hard, and then you go again out two hours 12, sometimes a bit less in the afternoon. So it’s not only important to keep your body in shape but also your mind. How do you balance this out? On the one hand I think cycling gives me a lot. So I always say like para sports especially really changed myself as a woman with a handicap or how I go through life. I would also argue that I never had such a high life quality like I have it at the moment also because I mean a lot of things like for example, with shoes I always have to do in my life, but I got to know other people that I probably wouldn’t have met before, which then also helps me in my everyday life. And then, yeah, I mean, the sport is hard. So I work with a sports psychologist, which I honestly think I would also continue doing it without doing competitive sports or anything, because I think it’s just such, such a cool thing to exchange with somebody, maybe just asking you the right question and that’s important for me. I think having that balance and moreover really my family, I mean, it’s not only the coaches, the experts all around me, it’s also the exchange with my family, the support of my family since ever since I’m born, who kind of also made me become what I am today or who kind of support me, who offered me these, possibilities. I mean, you could also say, why do you need to, take your bike and go out for five hours when it’s raining? Or why do you want to kind of go into the mountains with your feet? But they never did that. And I think that’s was always important for me that I kind of that I do that I define my own limits. And it’s, it’s not somebody else who is saying, why do you want to do it? That doesn’t make any sense. And that’s really thanks to to my family, I think. So bad weather doesn’t stop you from going out and cycling then. No, no normally not. I mean, you can go on the rollers and I also have to do that in winter, but normally I’m, I just love it to be outside, whatever the weather is. Sometimes it’s hard, but then coming back is so nice. So. And know that’s also something maybe how I grew up I was born or we grew up on the countryside and we were always outside and we went mushrooming when it was really wet all the time. And we were so we were small kids and the grass was higher than we were. And you were wet and soaked on every, every part of your body. But then coming back, the best memories. And I think I feel like a lot of puzzle pieces come together in cycling that I did before in my life. And that’s just super nice feeling like you found a bit your niche, your place where you are, where you bring the story, the things you you, got to know before in your life just make sense and bring you also a bit further than before or other people. So you said cycling really also changed you as a person. How did it change you? What were you like before compared to now? It’s really towards myself. I wouldn’t say it’s like coming out towards outside. It was really for myself because as I said, I was never in touch with other people with a disability. I didn’t feel like I belong there and at the same time, now seeing the world of para sports, we’ve all these stories, how other athletes tackled their life just makes you more aware of where you are and which privilege you have. And I, I really believe that I have huge privilege living that life that I do at the moment. And then I think I have like two worlds now to compare. I mean, I always compared myself to my sister, to my friends who don’t have a handicap. And I always felt like, I mean, you see, you saw that there is sometimes a gap and then you question yourself maybe a bit, because you invest the same or more. And nowadays I’m like, totally fine with it because I know there there is some reason and I have it, I have that handicap, but that’s okay. And you also have the other world of care sports where you kind of or where you are more comparable to others. And that’s super cool because I always challenge myself and you still know there’s the reason and that’s fine for me. Speaking of comparing yourself to others, you’ve been very vocal about inclusion. What does that mean to you personally? And where could we as a society do better? For me, it’s all about kind of having the same possibilities and also kind of the same estimation, maybe. Or you don’t have to say I’m also an athlete. I’m a athlete. And that’s super cool because it’s it’s para sports and it has its own fascination. And it’s about having the same possibilities like finding bikes, finding sponsoring fun, or having just the same opportunities. Like if you would do normal or non para sports. And that’s a lot of the time you, you see that there is a difference. And I think it is also a huge potential for society to to use these stories, these for the resilience that these athletes have more because I think as I said before, it’s it’s so fascinated what they what they saw, what which which stories they have and which positivity which resilience they have. I I’m always impressed by myself. And I think there is a huge potential for society. And at the same time, I feel like it also needs time. For example, in, in cycling, I mean para cycling or sports in general. It just developed so fast over the last years, like the level of the level is so high and that wasn’t there before. But that also means that nowadays it is possible to use more synergies with Non-power sports. And that’s really something I’m advocating for, especially in cycling. I mean, I have the same issues with organizing, training camp, organizing bikes, doing aero tests. But at the moment that I do that all by myself, which is also super nice. I mean, I was just two months in Mallorca alone and I did it on my own everything, which is again part of the kind of preparation for me to be at the starting line and I know I did it. I took my car by myself. I was there two months or winter. I did the best training. That’s super cool. But still, I mean, it’s also it would make it more easier for for other athletes with a disability to be able to really do that sports because, I mean, not everybody’s able to organize everything by her or himself to, to find a bike, to have the capacity to have the resources. And I really look forward and I’m quite optimistic that is all that there is a process that is going on. Do you have a piece of advice for other people who would want to start and do a sport, but they feel like they don’t belong as you also felt in the past? I. Mean, it’s so it’s connected with visibility. I would always argue, I would say if para sport is more visible, if there are kind of more, if there is more, how to say maybe no how in society that there is para sports or which possibilities there are, it will also become more normal for people to go into para sports because a lot of my friends who, who, do power sports, they were a bit like me. They got in touch with the Federation by themselves, and they weren’t really sure if that, if it is the right place. So if even if it becomes more visible or normal, then also more people will go into para sports. But my advice would really be like, yeah, listen to your inner voice, because I always felt like I would want to do it, but I felt like, it’s not for me. But then again, I was like, I want to do it. And the next step for me is create your environment, because I wouldn’t be here alone. That’s my family. That’s my coaches that so many experts who helped me to get here and that I think it also becomes your passion and you can really invest and also see what what you did and I think that’s so rewarding. Rewarding. Did you ever have a moment where you doubted yourself and, and felt like giving up? Maybe feel like. But I never did. I would really argue also now, I mean, I had, really had a hard winter. I did so many trainings, and sometimes you’re like, I just can’t stand that anymore. But I always continued knowing, like, it’s just part of game. It’s my job. It’s not always fun. And that just makes me stronger in the race. And then I would also say, yeah, a lot of the time. Then I look ahead like what is coming after? Which then makes it super cool. If you did that afterwards, it’s going to be better. And for me, but that’s also something I always had in my life. It would be so much harder for me or to not do it and then go home. I feel like I didn’t do it, then just do it. And I was also in school. I always want to just finish my homeworks first or do it early. Don’t wait until it’s the last minute because that stress was so much worse for me. Then just do it. And that’s really maybe a pattern that I. Have. Taken you back to one of your races where you were awarded a gold medal. What did that feel like? And I think each race where you really where you are really able to show all your potential and everything is working is unique. I mean, it needs so much. It’s sometimes things you can’t control, like being not ill, being healthy, not having any problems with your bike, not crashing. And then for sure your physique. But I would say first world champion title on the track for me was so special. I was working also with a new coach, and I think he really made a huge difference difference over the last year together with my personal coach and then again with the whole team. One doesn’t really have oh, we’ve only one of these puzzle pieces. It wouldn’t work. But that was really a special moment because, I mean, we invested a lot and I knew that I’m in shape, but still, it was unexpected. But he gave me so much self-confidence in that moment, and I felt like I can do it. And I made it. That was really the first time. And that’s special. I mean, you don’t forget these moments. What is the craziest thing that has happened to you during a race? Craziest things, I don’t know. I mean, you crash. I don’t know if that’s crazy, but. That sounds scary. It’s not fun for these moments. I was just kind of I just act without really being conscious of what I’m doing. Like I remember like, oh, where is where are my glasses? Oh, they are, they are, they are damaged. Oh, I don’t take them. Where is my bike? Okay, I have it. I go but yeah, it’s it’s not fun but it’s part of the game and other things. Maybe have a dog who is on the side, on the path, on the side path. And he’s running into the race, which is also not fun. But it was a time trial, so you’re a bit more flexible then. I would say in general you need to be flexible and super concentrated, and it’s always a bit like filming a race. You also forget a lot of things because you’re just doing what the others look at, what the others are doing. You have to be super attentive all the time and for also for the for the mind. It’s really it’s really, a hard thing. How do you even get into the mindset to make sure that you can clear your mind and just be super focused on the moments in the race? Maybe the bag just tells me when I’m on the bike, it’s just like switch and then it works. If it’s also in training, you’re outside you, you’re in the nature. Maybe that is something that helps me and the preparation before and with more experience. You also kind of trust yourself. That’s going to be okay as soon as the race starts and you don’t question yourself all the time. You said, okay, now or should I be different? Or and it’s a bit for me that’s also a bit tired of being ready at the start line. Like accept what what you have and then kind of use what you have at the moment and use these emotions in a positive way. And yeah, experience really helps, I think, because then you trust yourself more and I think that’s that’s a key. Key factor. Could you describe what you’re feeling when you’re on the bike. Yeah. It’s freedom I mean it’s the speed. It’s the dynamics you have. It’s technical which is fascinating. But moreover, I mean, it’s a bit further than just a bike. I mean, it’s team, your teammates, you you have friends, you see the world, you exchange you. I really think it widens your horizon because in many senses, I mean, you travel, like I said before, you, you meet these people, you you get to know yourself more. So a lot of positive things really connected to the bike. And sure, there are also downsides, but I like I said before, in every situation you have them and I’m after huge privilege being a professional athlete at the moment, which is not just for which is which is a huge privilege because, I mean, I’m apparently so even more. What have been your personal highlights? Have you had a race that was particularly special to you or what is that then? Like they are all somehow special for me having their place. But I mean, last year was so special. Having the Paralympic and then the World Championships at home in trick and, yeah, crushing, crossing the finish line at home in Zurich after having been in Paris with my family there it was, was special. Yeah. All these emotions and it was also a bit surreal for me. And then I remember well, when I was on the podium seeing my sister with, her child standing there. Yeah, that made me emotional somehow. What is next for you? What are the big plans after such a big, successful year in 2024? At the moment we are really focusing on training because this year is not like important for next qualification or anything and it gives us some freedom to test stuff. I want to improve some material issues. I always see a lot of potential and things I want to improve, but this is part of why cycling or para cycling is so interesting. Interesting for me and I’m really looking forward to work on them or we are working on them currently and it’s just super interesting. Again, I mean, I just did something with the mechanics and I’m always impressed. Like millimeters change the world for me. And yeah, at the end of the year we have the world championship in Belgium. I think that’s an important race. And then it’s going on and on. Next, like the long, longer, longer, goal for me is early, but it’s a long time, so you never know what life brings you, but I’ll take it and make the best out of it. How long is a cyclist’s career? Usually. How many years can you do this for on average? Well, if you start early, I mean, you see it in the pro races. They are always younger and younger, but it’s an endurance sport. You can do it very long. And I think moreover, para sport is different again because you have people who have, disability since they’re born like I do, but you have also people who had an accident. So you then start a bit later. So then you also have, athletes who are older. And so why I still have some years to go, I think. I mean, with 32, 35, you still have, you still see riders from doing races also in regular sports. So, but for me, it’s about doing it when I’m healthy and, and I, when I enjoy it. And maybe I think after four years it’s enough. But maybe I continue because it gives me also. What is something about para sports that most people might not know that you would like to share? You always have to explain a bit. I’m a para athlete, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t know that I’m not just an athlete, because that’s actually what I’m in the first place. I’m an athlete and para athletes or para cycling is like my discipline, and that would be really cool if it’s more if there is a higher awareness of it and maybe something specific that’s always with our hand because so the the yes, let’s in a wheelchair who are kind of pedaling with their arms. Very often people feel like, oh, that’s like athletics, like the athletes in the wheelchair doing their, the, their, training on the track like classics. That’s the true. It’s the hand like, and it has shifting and it has brake brakes. And that’s the thing that a lot of people are not aware. And it would be cool to just have more know how. But that’s I mean, again, I also don’t know everything and connected with with visibility, I guess. I don’t think you know this, but you’re actually the person who really opened up this world of para sports for me, because before I had no idea. And then I got to meet you. And that was the first time I realized, hey, there’s this whole other world that I know nothing about. What do you think it takes to create more visibility? Or what would you wish, for people to do so that that this world gets recognized more? I would say that’s really something that changed over the last year. I mean, the media did a good job, I would say in Switzerland, that that wasn’t the case when I started, I think, and that that really helps. And it’s cool because, I mean, I do it really for myself, the sports. But then seeing also kind of that other people are interested in it or they, they, they discover a new world is really cool to see. And yeah, one goes with the other. If you see it more often, if you get to know more people, you maybe talk to somebody else, then it’s just like a snowball effect, if you so to say. Since cycling is your job, do you also still enjoy just cycling for fun after training or not really. Not really after training. And that’s also the time where I take the e-bikes to go shopping or something, because that is, cycling is not a job. And I don’t go again to work after I take my job, but I enjoy it just to take my bike ride with friends. But I really have to separate it. If I know with it I have to train. I do my training and if I have it done, if I if I did it. I also enjoy to do it a bit more just for fun. Earlier you were talking about your training and how you really push through, even when it’s hard. How do you find the resilience to just keep going when things get tough? I feel like it’s like a muscle in the brain and it’s fun. There are already studies that prove that if you have children and they are motivated to overcome obstacles, they just get more resilient or they are better in tackling stress later if they are older. And I think that’s thanks to my parents, who kind of made me, see that. I mean, they they always supported me, and I, I wanted to kind of be able to jump on one leg. So I, I tried it every evening until I was able to do it. And then having that switch. Oh, you did it. It’s so rewarding. And I think that’s the pattern that I follow. Apart from cycling, what do you do, in your free time to recover or relax or for fun? I just love to be outside. Like hiking or mushrooming or watching birds being with my family. We have a huge garden that I really love for. I enjoy gardening and that gives me a lot. And at the same time I also enjoy cooking. Going out, having a good dinner gives me a lot. And that’s also important for me having having that balance. And yeah, I think at the moment it’s just a really a nice puzzle that is coming. Or a lot of the puzzle pieces are coming together. Since you started cycling at 22, were you doing something else before that? Yeah, I was already studying, political science and environmental science in my bachelor, and I just finished my master’s degree in political science. Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah, it’s super cool that I did both. And at the same time, it’s a huge relief because, I mean, it’s two things that really demand a lot of you. So I’m super happy now just to be able to focus in sport and at the same time I also need something besides sports. So I was just in Mallorca and started to learn Spanish and also with political science. I see a lot of potential in the future to combine it with sports, and I’m looking forward to where I end up with it. As you said, both studying and cycling, they’re very demanding. How did you combine the two things? I was a bit lucky with, the, pandemics because it helped me. A lot of stuff was online so I could do a lot, and then I just it took me a bit longer because I didn’t do 100% at university, what just wasn’t possible. And then I was also maybe, lucky about the support that I have from at home. Also, a bit of the university and I think it was a good thing to do to do both. Going back to the topic of inclusion, I feel like often when we are confronted with something new that we don’t know, for example, we meet someone with a handicap that we hadn’t seen before. Sometimes it feels like we need to walk a little bit on eggshells, or we don’t know how to address it or yeah. Do you have a piece of advice on how to talk about handicaps in a more normal way? For me it’s like there are two sides, so it’s like it would really help if it’s more visible, because then there is the chance that it becomes more normal and you’re not. No more on eggshells. And for me, it’s just good to talk about it openly. And that’s again then linking to the other side to flip the coin, like my side or the side of people with having a handicap, then it’s okay if people are asking or that you understand, or I always try to say myself, she he doesn’t know, but he wants to know something or he tries to and it’s not like that. He wants to be mean. But of course it’s, it’s a really it’s a balance. And just looking back, it’s also from my perspective, when you’re young, you just want to be part of the society or like everybody else. And it it really hurt. It really hurt, hurt me. Back then when somebody was looking at me or saying something. And nowadays it doesn’t kind of hurt me in person. That thought, as it did before. And that’s maybe also a development you go through. So for me, it’s totally okay if somebody is asking or if she, she or he is looking okay. I don’t like it, but it kind of doesn’t hurt me anymore. So yeah, the visibility, the exchange, having this, having the contact is important. And then it’s race is like in civic where inclusion is really kind of left where the para athletes are racing the same or at the same time, the same courses. That just helps because then people are there and they are interested in sports at the first point, but they also see para sports. And I think that’s that’s super helpful. And that I also see there a huge potential just from sports in general, that it’s kind of making that bridge, making a natural and natural context where people see. But it’s not about inclusion per se. If you had to choose one important takeaway for our listeners, what message do you want to leave with them? Yeah, listen to your inner voice and if you really feel like you want to do it, that’s the thing. That’s your passion. Go all in, create your environment and do it. Just go for it. Don’t let anyone else tell you you can. Yeah, define your own limits. That was always important for me. And I think that’s true for everybody. That is such a good and powerful message and something I think we all need to remind ourselves of over and over again, because we always have situations where we might feel unsure or insecure or not confident. So thank you so much for your insights and your advice and for being here on the podcast. It’s been such a pleasure to to talk to you. Thanks for having me. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider liking, commenting and subscribing.