This conversation did not go as expected. It turned into a discussion about Hasidic anti-Zionism, whereas I thought it would be a gentle discussion on faith.
Since I did my first video with Pearl three years ago, my friendship with her has deepened and become richer. Still, we have always had deep ideological differences. I am no longer Hasidic, and I reject many of the beliefs of my upbringing. Pearl is a deeply believing Hasidic woman who not only lives a joyous life in the heart of her world, but in a way, she is also a vanguard of the views of the post-Holocaust generation. I believe that her passion for speaking up on her anti-Zionism is partly driven by her sense that this view is being lost among the younger generation in her community. I think this motivated her to make this interview about how faith relates to the Holocaust and Israel.
During the interview, I was fairly certain I would not air it—partly because I felt an urge to protect Pearl, and partly because I felt an urge to protect Zionism/Israel. (In the spirit of full disclosure, I’d say I’m a Zionist — which of course doesn’t mean carte blanche support for anything Israel does. I don’t believe Israel is a perfect state, and I think its actions should be open to criticism. Still, I also believe that the world’s outsized obsession with the perceived sins of Israel is often motivated by an undercurrent of anti-semitism.)
After some deliberation on whether I should publish or not, I came to believe that neither of these impulses to protect was the right one. I’m grateful to live in a free society where we can disagree and not shy away from difficult discussions, even if someone might try to weaponize them. And so, with that in mind, I decided to share the interview.
I did not add captions for Yiddish words within the video itself, but they are available through the subtitle feature—if you turn on CC, you’ll see the translations.
For more related videos see:
My video – understanding Hasidic antizionism: https://youtu.be/7dBvvgBLi2k
Pearl on when her son left the fold: https://youtu.be/vf_LDz3vD_A
My video on narratives like Unorthodox: https://youtu.be/v-VWUgQBTvQ
33 Comments
I did not add captions for Yiddish words within the video itself, but they are available through the subtitle feature—if you turn on CC, you’ll see the translations.
Dear Frieda, as a practicing Catholic and loving friend of many Jews and a fervent Zionist, I feel compelled to write to you, again. I am an absolute fan of yours. Your work is outstanding.
Strangely enough, I watch this interview following my attendance to Yom Shoah at the Shul in Paris, invited by a friend. Which was not my first time. So, the topic was clearly on point, some would say..
I was very moved and saddened by your personal story, the loss of your still born child. You have my deepest prayers and most heartfelt condolences. As a Christian I don't believe that we can understand why G. allows such suffering, why He called you child back to Him so soon. I only pray for your re-union in Heaven , the peace of your heart and the rest his soul. I have not doubt it had absolutely nothing to do with you, what you would have done, said or thought. God is Love. He may have His book as Pearl says, but in none of them is written " I wish you harm and pain because you did this and /or said that " . G. loves you as you are Frieda, knows your soul and has His Book for you. The One we don't know of. The One we don't understand but accept because we have faith in Him. That what Pearl is talking about.
As faithful as I can be, my heart still bleeds for you knowing what your endured as a young married woman mourning her still born child and suffering from these horrendous "gossips" telling you that it was your fault, following the mindset of the Satmar Community.. At the time when you needed support, love, kindness and compassion the most. But, if I may say so, I do understand the "gossips", as hurtful as they were, where they are coming from. Not so much as in a hurtful way but more as being as the same way as Pearl's view of the Holocaust. It is ths Satmar's View, as Pearl explicitly says it. It is not her point of view. She only voices the view of the Satmar Rebbe. And in doing so, and you letting you do it and airing it, I command you both. What a chutzpah (חוצפה ) Ladies ! Bravo !
As I said earlier , I am also a Zionist. I believe Israel has a right to exist for harboring the Jews and its citizens have the right to defend their country. I visited Israel and loved it, as of its people. I deeply believe in the Jews being the Chosen people and being hated for it. Even when Israel disobeyed God in the Torah, God still called them his Chosen People and Satan hates his people.
As controversial as Pearl's view can be, it must be heard. It is the Satmar view. It is a Jewish point of view on the Holocaust. A debated, heated one. We can disagree with it or not. But certainly not judging it. I firmly believe in hearing each other's point of view.
We also have in Catholic Faith our "Satmars " too !
I always remember not to judge because only one is judge: G. Himself. And who are we to judge ?
What is the purpose of these interviews and variety of views (Satmar, Hassids, Masortti, Reformed, Liberal, non practicing, Orthodox, etc. and the Goyim!) if not for us to reflect and marvel together on Him and on ourselves, on the 613 mitzvot's, the Torah, on the Bible, on the Ten Commandments, on the Talmud, even the Kabbalah for some of the most adventurous ones, and so much more ??
I can only say : Thank you to our Darling Pearl (I can only love you more for your honesty,, and very respectfully disagree with you, or not ! ) , and Thank you to you Dear Frieda for your kindness, your respect, and your honesty. It was so thoughtful and powerful. Breathtaking, as always. With all my love, Laëtitia
Frieda,
First of all, only comfort and never blame for the loss of your child.
Second: concerning Pearl about Zionism. I finally heard her (that is the message of the Torah by those against Zionism in its present…form.).
There is a story of the Arabs seeing the secular, atheist Jews coming over the hill from Europe into Israel. They saw that these (ethically relatively good Jews) did not live a Torah life and said to each other, “ Ah we don’t have to worry about these Jews…we will battle them because …” fill in the blanks. They saw Jews making up their own laws and discordant at that.
There are causes and effects …since the beginning of time according to the Torah. These are not ALL known (if at all) to us today. Here is a sad example; A woman and man smoked opium or some other hazardous material…knowingly. ….and somehow generations later…a child is born with issues related to this ….. unknowingly. Is it the parents fault? No…but it is (and God will fill us in at the end of times) a consequence of “perhaps” that prior action. Now, maybe the woman and the man were abused by their parents…and prior, their parents and a weakness has now developed in the DNA chain opening to who knows what.
We are NOT privy to this cause or effect. I love Israel because I love G-d/Torah. But I have seen such sadness in losing our people. And that is why I pray. Not because I’m trying to change G-d but change …..me. It says in modern psych…you may have had trauma as a child but it’s your job to work on it as an adult.
But I have seen instances where a Torah scholar who LIVED a Torah life and generation after generation has hereditary insights, talents and children who can be very unique. (Are all the children perfect? Who knows…only G-d knows the past contribution of each person/generation. Learn from everyone you meet. ) Through behavior modification, people can “ apppppear” to change and that is a miracle but usually it is a causal effect trickling through the generations (and possibly G-d intervening) unless there is a “correction”….. (too complex for this platform presently).
Torah says if something happened “to” you, there was a reason …not necessarily a blame. We are too unknowing to know. Is that a cop out? No. It is a faith that there is something bigger at play here and He/She/It runs the world.
Your own work outside of observance may be bringing people to a Torah Life….who knows. You are providing a valid and creative service …I think…and hopefully you treasure your journey. Your efforts are created on the shoulders of your ancestors and G-d is giving you a vehicle to bring something special into the world.
Thank you for these ongoing convos.
This interview reminded me of how painful it is to sit across from someone you respect but profoundly disagree with. To be told repeatedly that what they are stating is the truth and not an opinion, leaving no room for your own views. It’s so hard.
She's doing a great service for antisemitic people and for Zionists. Amazing!
She's so stupid and uninformed. Thank you for showing her dumb opinions
Bubby, you're so beautiful 12:17 thank you for sharing this Niggun with us. 🙏🏾🫶🏾⚔️🦁
I do like Pearl a lot, however, her explanation of the holocaust is deeply disturbing, When Moshe Rabbeinu was told about the curses, he asked HaShem why? HaShem replied do you wnat Me to tell you? Moshe Rabeinu declined.The Lubavitch Rebbe explained if we knew why HaShem allowes His people to suffer, we would be obliged to accept it, HaShem does not want us to accept it. We should never accept the pain of another Jew
The Lubavich Rebbe instructed us to refer to a Jew as a Jew, not to label each other, such as Orhtodox, Modern, etc. This is divisice, rather, we are united as. the Rebbe taught, ah Yid is ah Yid is ah Yid!
As a non Jew, it is hard to stomach that the holocaust was a punishment from the creator. I guess I think the holocaust was because of evil and people falling into their deepest barbaric nature.
I really can’t speak to the whole Zionist issue. Not being Jewish , I really can’t get all that Pearl was saying. But I think the Zionist movement to give a marginalized group of people a safe place to live. But maybe that is too simplistic.
Whether I understand everything pearl was saying , I really appreciate the civil discussion
I’m so sorry for the loss of your first baby, Frieda.
I would have liked to have heard Pearl’s answers to your actual questions.
Adding my words of support for this beautiful and respectful discussion – this should be a lesson to all of us for how to think and live with opposing beliefs. Thank you both for your bravery and thoughtfulness.
So then what does Pearl feel about October 7th? Does she feel that the Palestinians had the right to invade Isreal?
What an amazing conversation.
So all the Jews who were in the US army in WW2 fighting the Nazis, does she object to that?
I am sorry but Pearl is mistaken on history. Many Jews did convert because they mistakenly believed they could escape oppression that way. As for Mendelson, whom I disagree with about everything not having descendants is not proof of her assertion. Many, many religious, faithful Jews were murdered young, thoughout history, and did not leave descendants. Her argument is flawed.
We didn't take it back under our own power. We were living there and they attacked us, again and again. And you cannot possibly claim that the nations of the world have kept their end of oaths. The Torah commands us to live in the land. We defended ourselves.
46:50 Pearl is completely correct.
It's not the first time I've heard these views of Pearl’s (or the truth as she stated), I respect her right to share that truth. Great interview, Frieda. ✨
It is strange that Nebuchadnezzar, whom the Bible calls a man of God and whose mission is divine, is portrayed as an aggressor, while the Jews, whom Jeremiah repeatedly warned against and who secretly contracted with the Egyptians against the Babylonians despite their covenant with Babylon not to conspire, portray what happened to them as injustice! It would be better for the destruction of Babylon to be a more certain divine punishment than the Holocaust, Mrs. Perla.
that was so interesting, I am a Christian and have read the entire Bible and I possibly vaguely remember GOD saying that about Israel. I will have to go back and check what it says. I can thoroughly understand Pearls view and appreciate it. If GOD said not to get the land back until Jesus comes back, then I would have to agree with what GOD said. But I will always stand with Jewish people because they are the chosen people and GOD wants us too. As for bad things happening to people because they did something wrong, I don't think GOD does anything bad to us he only wants the best for us.
Zionism and the state of Israel is against the Torah and Judaism.
She needs a better understanding about harag (הָרַג) "to kill," and ratzah (רַצַח) "to murder."
I understand Pearl’s point of view- but regarding Jews not being allowed to fight. Isn’t the Old Testament or the Torah full of violence, bloodshed & wars? And aren’t the Jews involved? I found this confusing.
Apparently she don't know Jewish history. All through out history God had his army with his people to fight the enemy. Yes, though shalt not kill but God still had his people fight against the enwmy
As a Jewish person who cares deeply about the value and dignity of all people, I can't ignore Pearl saying that all Palestinians want to wipe out all Jews. It's just not true and that stereotype is based on anti-Palestinian racism. Sure, some Palestinians have committed violence and some want violent revenge but the vast majority of Palestinian people just want to live in freedom, dignity, and safety and the vast majority of Palestinian people don't want to kill all Jews. I've talked with a lot of Palestinians and they're absolutely able to distinguish between the actions of the State of Israel and the Jewish people. It's just not true to say that Palestinians want to kill Jews. They are normal people who want and deserve the same things we all want and deserve – to live in freedom, dignity, and safety.
Sorry pearl your chatting from your ass so is the satmar rebbe. We Jews have been killing since we took Israel that was Canaan before Hashem told us conqueror the land. The problem was then idiots like the satmar rebbe and his kind chose a half measure and not a full measure, and Hashem punished Israel for sparing the people he was suppose to completely eliminate, I believe Saul lost the kingdom because he was a pussy not willing to fight the enemy Hashem commanded him to fully destroy. The Torah is always true but your so called holy Rebbe's are all full of bullshit and chat shit from their ashole, stop following man made ideologies.
Thank you for sharing. It's always good to learn.
אני ממש מזועזעת מהדרך שפרל מתעלמת משפיכות הדמים של הפלסטינים נגד היהודים. היא ממש מתעלמת מהמציאות, השואה, האסון האנטישמי הגדול ביותר, התרחשה כשאין מדינה לעם ישראל.
שכחו לגמרי שארץ ישראל ניתנה לעם ישראל מבורא עולם!!
וגם מאוד עצוב שכל האמונה שלה היא בעצם שנאת ציונות. ממש עצוב.
פרידה את נהדרת!!! איך הצלחת לשמור על עמדה אותנטית ומקשיבה בו זמנית. מיוחדת!!!
Thank you for such a respectful, thoughtful discussion. Two educated women should be able to discuss their differing views with such respect for the other.
Such an important conversation thank you for sharing two wonderful minds